Tim Minchin is going to be doing a show in Dallas (lucky Texans), and he’s having a little trouble arranging a piano for his show.
I should think someone in this state would be embarrassed enough by this bigotry to help out.
Somebody in Dallas rent this man a piano!
Bwahahahahahahahahah
I’m sorry. I am truly sorry Tim is having trouble, but the sheer insanity of that is frigging hilarious.
They just keep proving our point about religion fostering hatred. And making it harder not to think that religious people are just plain stupid.
Tim. A demon. Oh, yeah.
A piano, a piano my kingdom for a piano:-)
Well, if push comes to shove, he can just read twitters to the audience. It looks like a hilarious comedy routine.
:facepalm: This moment brought to you by Dumbfucks who make me embarrassed to be American.
Tim Minchin’s not asking for much
but these morons are out of touch.
They shout “Tim, go home!
“Leave Dallas Alone!”
I think they use a crooked crutch.
So Paula and Norbert miss out.
They call their magic friend and pout.
They’ll pray ’round the clock.
But will he still rock?
Beyond any shadow of doubt.
Tim did get his hands on a piano, he tweeted: “And thanks for offers – I got a lovely Steinway B in the end!” not long after the tweets from the article.
Come to Winnipeg, Canada Tim. We have plenty of pianos and fans!
It was rude of them to berate Tim Minchin. But didn’t we say rude things when Rick Perry had his big prayer rally in Houston? Didn’t we want him to cancel it? Everybody has the right to not rent their piano to somebody they don’t support. Which Tim said in a later tweet. As long as attendance is voluntary at any event we should figure out how to at least be polite to each other.
Barbara: Tim Minchin is not a government official. Try again.
I would let him use our Piano, but we live a ways outside of Dallas and we currently have no way to get it there. If he could get it us from us, and get it tuned, and could deal with it being an older piano, and not a grand, he could use it.
And yes, some of us are embarrassed by this. But I’m used to it as I’ve been embarrassed by the south for about as long as I can remember.
Perry is the Governor of Texas, leading a fucking prayer meeting. Tim Minchin is a not a government official. He’s not using government funds.
He’s correct that they have the right to refuse to rent him a piano. It’s just hilarious that they did.
I have no obligation to be polite to Christian assholes. In fact, just the opposite: their saviour explicitly states that their eternal pleasure in the afterlife would be pegged to the amount they suffer here on Earth. Since I only want to optimise the best life for everyone, it’s clear that I should torment and punish Christians while they’re alive so as to maximise their eternal rewards. (And, if that maximises enjoyment of life here on Earth for those of us who won’t be making it to heaven, so much the better.)
My hands are tied by my respect for their worldview.
Must be Norbert and Paula Lesjak at Norbert’s Piano Service, Plano TX.
Google is a wonderful thing.
I didn’t know he was a demon. I know something now I didn’t know five minutes ago. What a pleasant feeling, forever denied to those who cultivate ignorance.
Brownian:
Absolutely. Someone has to maintain The Persecution Files™.
@13 Brownonian I lol’d. I think you win the thread with that comment.
Tim Minchin is a demon? I guess that explains the long hair. And the makeup. And the wicked piano skills.
But didn’t we say rude things when Rick Perry had his big prayer rally in Houston? Didn’t we want him to cancel it?
what?
cancel?
hells NO!
that’s was some funny, funny shit.
the irony of how it actually turned out couldn’t have been written better if PZ himself had done the script.
But didn’t we say rude things when Rick Perry had his big prayer rally in Houston? Didn’t we want him to cancel it?
more flowers at your feet, my man.
ooops.
damn multi-copy app.
that last should read:
My hands are tied by my respect for their worldview.
more flowers at your feet, my man.
*sigh*
Is it just me or does the sign off “Love in Christ” seem somewhat …. um, what’s the word I’m looking for?
I hope Tim will be all right. His shows are somewhat provocative and a show in Texas must be like going into a biker bar and shouting “Harleys suck ass” and “Why is a Harley different from a Hoover – The position of the dirt bag” (for an hour)
Barbara Tomlinson @ 9;
Your concern is noted.
Brownian @ 13;
Bravo Brownian. If they whine about how mean you are, you can just remind them that you are doing it all for them, at their own behest (or at least that of ‘teh hole-y babble’).
Thread won, methinks!
Since he’s already going to be in the states, he is more than welcome to head to Iowa. Please???
quidam @ 23;
That occured to me too. All too often religious ignorance and fanaticism respond to mockery with violence, and the Lone Star State has as bad a reputation as any when it comes to ignorance, fanaticism and gun-toting crazies (apologies to all rational Texans, but you have to admit that your state is famous for its looney fundies).
Already people are tossing that ridiculous word ‘demon’ around. Sadly, it is quite possible that some xian nutbar will take it seriously.
Here’s hoping Tim makes it out of there in one piece.
I was wondering about the whole “demon” thing, but it seems demons are far more common than I thought.
There’s even a hierarchy of demons, with some of them being powerful enough to affect whole cities and even countries. Just ask C. Peter Wagner and his wife Doris.
Wagner is one of the leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation. Many of whom attended Rick Perry’s prayer meeting/political rally. Many of whom were featured speakers. It’s fucking bugnuts all the way down.
Here’s an NPR Fresh Air podcast featuring Terry Gross playing straight man to Wagner’s unintentionally hilarious blatherings about demons, fighting demons, being chosen by god to bring about christian dominion over everything from your dirty undies to the movies you watch, to the President who runs your country: http://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/140946482/apostolic-leader-weighs-religions-role-in-politics
Tim Minchin is, no doubt, one of those demon-influenced, or demon-infected entertainers who needs Doris Wagner to perform an exorcism while C. Peter prays. Even more wailing and gnashing than is usual in a Minchin concert?
Ever since the Emperor of Japan had sex with the sun goddess (a demon, dontcha know, and a “power of darkness”) Japan has been plagued with problems, according to Wagner.
Well, there you go. Fucking damned sunny demons anyway. Fucking ADHD-afflicted God.
Tim Minchin would find a willing audience in India, according to Wagner. Hie thee to India Tim, and revel there with your fellow demons.
And in the category of “Oh fucking noes, it can’t get worse … can it?” there’s this:
I thought it was inappropiate for a government official to pander to the lowest of the lowest xians. But didn’t much care.
It did work out well.
1. We now know Perry’s supporters are the wackiest of the wackos. Cindy Jacobs, and a bunch of other Xian Dominionist and New Apostolic Reformation extremists.
2. His pretending to talk to the the Imaginary Sky Monster was amusing. Particularly as shortly thereafter, Texas burst into flames and it still hasn’t rained. God must hate fundie xians, Rick Perry, and Texas.
Pedant alert: Nepal ain’t India.
About the Japanese Sun Goddess thing. Once a Japanese guy, who was really into Shinto (and a right-wing nationalist, this goes hand in hand) told me interesting myths, like the islands of Japan being drops of water after the one Goddess had to clean herself up after having sex with the other God (one lived in Hell, one in Heaven, I don’t remember). Now that’s a foundation myth I wouldn’t be proud of… But the Japanese mythology is full of nice stories, so it is fun to check them out!
(Well Wiki says the two Gods just gave birth to the islands, but I’ll trust my Japanese nationalist friend in at least getting the mythological bullcrap right)
Brownian @13
Brownian, I strew your path with roses and my lightly-used underwear.
Ah, yes, religious nutters and their penchant for glorifying suffering.
This YouTube video features mormon apostle David Bednar explaining that accidental suffering, as in starving in Africa, doesn’t count as much in God’s eyes as deliberate suffering, as in a starving African woman choosing to fast on Fast Sunday. Having only one meal a day all week long is not good enough for God.
His point, overall, is that the LDS Church is helping people in Africa.
For the love of christ.
Barbara, you should go there. There’s a considerable lack of politeness in the comments. You should address that.
Oh, dear. Here I am sending Tim Minchin off to India, when really he should restrict himself to the Hindus of Nepal.
My bad.
Hell, if he’d play an electric I’d give him my own. LOL.
Did he ever find one?
Also: I wanna go.
The New Apostolic Reformation are a bunch of fundie xian nutcases who claim god has given them Superpowers.
There is of course, no evidence for this.
Among their evident Superpowers are; babbling like loons, make stuff up, scamming money from people even dumber than they are, and being repulsive to normal people.
There is no obvious bottom to how cuckoo xians can get. They are still sacrificing human children to their Sky Monster god on a routine basis.
Christians call themselves progressive and consider themselves to be embracing modern times, a fine example set here, nothing’s really changed has it.
Way to go christians, show us how it’s done!!
This also makes it difficult to loose the stereotypical image of the deep south we tend to get here in Oz, I wonder how they would have reacted if Tim was Aboriginal too?
In race-to-the-bottom fundie news, one of Rick Perry’s pet pastors declaimed that Romney is in a “cult” and is not a christian.
Never thought I’d say this, but this may be the only time that Romney comes off as looking ever so slightly less afflicted by the synaptic sludge of religion than Perry’s posse. [mind boggles, eyebrows stick in raised position]
Now Perry is trying to distance himself from Pastor Jeffress. But, really, I can’t see why he would bother. What’s one more rabid pastor when you’ve already got a whole herd of ’em.
And there’s the undeniable fact that Jeffress has laid down the evangelical law about Romney before. In public. In Texas. On the record. Like Perry didn’t know. Perry’s excuse is that Values Voters Summit organizers chose Jeffress to introduce him — and, no, Perry himself never saw that guy before, or something like that. “The Governor does not believe Mormonism is a cult,” said spokesman Mark Miner.
Demon alert! Perry has been infected with (by?) the powerful Tim Minchin demon! Perry has been heard defending mormons … or having his mouthpiece defend mormons. That’s gotta be the Powers of Darkness at work. Or …. shit. I just had the thought that all the mormons praying for Romney have affected the Perry campaign. I need booze, and possibly out-of-wedlock shennanigans — some kind of antidote, quick. I know … [launches Tim Minchin video]
They can’t just say no, can they? No, they have to inject a little fake drama and heroism into their pathetic lives by inventing demons. “What did you do at the office today?” “Oh, you know… just did psychic battle with foul demons from Satan’s pit of eternal pain and anguish. You?”
It was rude of them to berate Tim Minchin.
They didn’t berate him. They went out of their way to try to censor an artist in a dishonest and passive-aggressive way. I’m surprised you didn’t recognize the dishonesty and passive-aggressiveness, given what you vomited up next:
But didn’t we say rude things when Rick Perry had his big prayer rally in Houston?
Drop the “we” crap, moron. This is YOU talking, not any of us. You haven’t earned the right to speak for anyone else here. Learn that, or fuck off.
Now it’s up to you to demonstrate what atheist tried to deny microphones or cameras or the entire fucking stadium or any other venue to keep those theocratic thugs from spreading their lies in Houston?
Come on. Name one atheist who tried to deny them service or products. Name one who tried to stop anyone from going.
I will fucking wait.
Didn’t we want him to cancel it?
MOST OF US ATHEISTS wanted so few people to show up that it would demonstrate just how little support these turds had, and lo, our wish came true, when they couldn’t even fill up a stadium in the nation’s fourth largest city, a city that had Tom Delay elected from its suburbs, no less. They couldn’t even fill up half of it! That was poetic justice to those of us who can think.
However, despite how most of us atheists hoped no one showed up, NOT ONE ATHEIST tried to stop a single person from going. NOT ONE ATHEIST tried to stop any of the speakers from speaking, or deny them the resources to speak.
Do YOU understand the fucking difference between that and the Minchin situation? Or are you just going to snivel about tone, rather than using your head for something besides a hat rack?
Everybody has the right to not rent their piano to somebody they don’t support.
And we have the right to call them censoring, deluded assholes for it. Welcome to free fucking speech. They don’t get to act without consequence, dimwit.
Which Tim said in a later tweet. As long as attendance is voluntary at any event we should figure out how to at least be polite to each other.
Here’s some perspective, you ahistorical sack of shit: Attendance at every KKK meeting to plot how to lynch or harass a black person has been voluntary. Attendance at every Army of God meeting to plot how to kill an abortion doctor has been mandatory. Al Qaida’s meetings are voluntary. Timothy McVeigh met with people voluntarily to plan blowing up the OKC federal building.
Just because a meeting is voluntary doesn’t mean that it’s for a good cause, or that people can’t ridicule it or express revulsion at WHY they’re meeting, or protest it. Be revolted all you want, and say so. You can even say, “I won’t provide X to such a thing,” UP FRONT. But say so far enough in advance, so that people can make other arrangements, m’kay, and don’t lie about your distaste until the last fucking minute.
Now go play on the freeway.
“The usual. Refused to rent a piano to a demon from Australia. How about you?”
“Exorcised the cats and dogs. Again. Went down to the local elementary school to exorcise demons from the science teachers. Got escorted off the grounds by demons wearing blue uniforms and carrying guns. Again.”
Must be exciting living in Texas, demon central.
Will the Texas audience be like this?
Blues Brothers, of course.
Is that really true? Isn’t this discrimination on the basis of religion? If the piano rental is a public company, I don’t believe they have that right.
raven:
Well, Sunnydale is in California. And yes, watching Buffy was kind of exciting, but I never lost sight of the fact that it was fiction. Seems some people thought it was a documentary.
Well to test that statement lets ponder what would happen if the roles were reversed, what if it had been an atheist refusing to rent to a christian? hmmm…
At the very least I think it’s unlikely that the victim would have anything resembling “Y’know, if I owned a piano & found out a hirer was, say, racist or homophobic, I might retract hire. I admire Norbert’s ethical stand.” as a part of their response.
Submitted six samples to Quality Control for testing, and followed a production batch with seven samples on the HPLC. And took a half day vacation. Just another Friday…
I listened to the entire Fresh Air (in this instance Sewer Gas) episode with Wagner. My respect for Terry Gross went up an order of magnitude when I realized she had endured approximately 48 total minutes of air time with a straight face & a neutral tone of voice. Her demeanor was the perfect counterpoint to Wagner’s batshit blithering bunko babble. NPR should expose more of these raving loons. These apostolic asshats want “dominion” over the “seven hills” of our culture and decry the perfidy of demons. I’ll take my chances with demons rather than such as they who would “save” me from demons!
These apostolic asshats want “dominion” over the “seven hills” of our culture and decry the perfidy of demons.
Would not the “seven hills” be Rome?
whenever i hear tell of some christian nutbag denying some product of service to the godless or the gays all i can think of is something Jesus once said
‘whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me.’
that’s right. this company just declined to rent a piano to Jesus Christ.
Claw, I refuse to rent anything to a mythical person.
Lynna:
Or as Jackson Browne said:
“God is great, God is good;
He guards your neighborhood,
Though it’s generally understood
Not quite the way you would.”
It’s hard to tell if the Republican Party is pimping Christianity, or if Christianity is pimping the Republican Party. And this is assuming there is a meaningful difference between the two.
I cannot wait to go and hear his side of this live tomorrow! I’m dragging my husband with me, as I’m not fond of downtown Dallas.
Would anyone hear rent a piano for a revival by a Christian preacher who preaches hatred towards gays?
If not, what is the difference? These are both principled decisions. The primary difference is that they think that Tim Minchin is a servant of satan, and we all think that Tim is correct and these people are delusional, hateful fucktards, and that there’s nothing wrong with being gay.
These people are wrong, but given what they believe this behavior makes perfect sense. The problem is the underlying beliefs and the actions that it normally is accompanied by when it creates real harm.
All of that said, this is the sort of thing that makes me embarrassed to be an American and the primary saving grace in this context is that at least I’m not from Texas.
The “preaching hate” part, presumably, which leads to actual harm to people. Starting off with an obvious false equivalency doesn’t bode well.
That’s your argument? All decisions are morally equivalent as long as you’re standing by your principles? Holy shit. I was right.
Yeah, I’m done.
P.S. You forgot to wait until someone answered “yes” to your first question before launching into a rant. Berating people is so much easier when you are putting words into their mouths!
Tim,
I live in the N. Ft Worth ‘burbs and have a nice “Howard” baby Grand piano ( in Walnut) that I will loan to you for your show. I will even bring it to the venue if you hook me up with some tickets to your gig.. no joke. post a rely in comments.
PZ wrote,
You *should* be able to think that, yes; but this is Texas we’re talking about, so you know better.
Glad he found a piano. My suggestion would have been to ask any college or university with a music department.
Saw him in Milwaukee, the 2nd (he was in Madison the day before), gawd what pitiful proper in Dallas.
Someone will help him, however.
No.
Bullshit. It is not a question about how “principled” your position is. It is not even about “freedom of speech”. It is about resisting attacks on fundamental human rights.
Ha! Poor Tim. Luckily for me I have tickets to his Sydney show. Can’t waittt :) Mr Myers, please convince him to appear at the convention in Melbourne with you next year. Pleassseee?
Technically, if someone is advertising to the public, and refuses on the grounds of a protected class, they’ve violated the civil rights of that other person. There is no penalty unless there are specific penalties for the action, but many states have public accommodation laws.
So no, you don’t have the right to withhold rental services because you don’t like someone’s religion.
This is good. Something needed to stop him from singing.
@ crissakentavr
I get the gist of what you say. On the other hand I would not make the argument on the basis of religion. People are welcome to their delusions. Where I would put my foot down is if the piano was used in the support of hate speech. (As in the example given in #51.)
I would rather be outside the law than outside morality. (The priest in the example is clearly immoral. Ie “preaches hatred towards gays”). In reality it is not as clear cut as that. It is enough to just keep stalling and screwing around with the idiot ’til the time is up.
PS. I am from a country that has banned hate speech, so that the above situation is unlikely to occur. YMMV
There. Fixed that for you.
For the moment, I would thank you if you used the pronoun “I” rather than “we”. Please don’t speak on my behalf.
Theophontes@63, I think crissakentavr@61 was responding to my question @40, which asked if it is legal to refuse piano hire if you are a public business on the grounds that the renter is an atheist.
Sorry, Ing, that my comment at 64 was a rehash of yours – I didn’t read the stuff inside the blockquotes at first, and didn’t see your Satan vs Sauron take.
Obvious troll is obvious.
@ echidna
Ah, the legal aspect of (ir)religious discrimination.
I was reflecting more on Joshua Zelinsky #51. I am fortunate to have lived in countries where (at least on this particular issue) legality and morality coincide. I struggle to wrap my head around the idea that people are “entitled” to hate speech of the sort described.
(To be clear, I do not think one should discriminate here on the basis of faith or lack of it. WRT the human rights issues raised, I am sure I would often come to stand on the wrong side of the law in USA. )
I do not think you quite understand what polities entails. It it far far more than not telling people to fuck off. In fact not telling people to fuck off is civility, not politeness.
Now given you are so keen on politeness, care to explain why you made such an idiotic comment and were thus impolite ?
Norbert and Paula may soon find themselves immortalised in song (though not under their real names). When you’re a comic with a penchant for poking fun at superstitious nonsense, and someone claims you’re a demon, that’s probably too good to pass up.
As a person who knows that a piano has 88 keys, that Tim Minchin is not the devil, a friend of a man named Norbert, and where Lakewood is in Dallas, I can offer this expert commentary: Tim Minchin will have a piano to play at the Lakewood Theater!
Now, whether it will be a player piano with pre-programmed punch cards allowing only the chords of ‘Swing Low Sweet Chariot’ or it will follow the tone progression of the Pope Song is something that will depend on the ability of barefooted, eye-liner wearing troubadours to operate a mechanical device.
Well, it’d stop him playing a piano. He’d still be able to sing.
Inane Janine, OM, Conflater Of Arguments #47
I can understand that. Mythical people are extremely slow in paying the rent.
Um, I’ll have to say that PZ missed off this tweet from Tim Minchin:
Tim, although he seemed a bit annoyed, could see where the hirer was coming from, and also refused to divulge contact details.
Would I rent a piano to Christians? Yes. For one thing they will just do as Tim did and get one somewhere else. In general I don’t mind doing business with people that have different ideologies from me – we all still have to live together.
@ Naked Bunny,
On the contrary, I’m not defending their views. Views like that need to recognized and combated. But it is worthwhile to understand which views are creating the actual problem. The problem here is not this action, the problem is in the premises. You and I agree that there views are creating actual harm. But they think the precise opposite and that people like Minchin are creating harm.
It isn’t stating more equivalence to try to understand where people are coming from when they are wrong. These people are deeply wrong. But understanding them is still useful.
@ #45
No, the “seven hills of Rome” would be too simple – and would not serve their goals. Listen to the idiot; they now number government, education, entertainment, the military, business, etc. as the seven “hills.” (Cannot bear the thought of going back to get the complete list of seven.)
Given the schisms within christianity, you’d think they’d be happy to have him play “Fuck the Mother-fucking Pope” on their piano.
Everybody knows demons play fiddles, not pianos. stupid texans.
protest + censorship + ado about nothing = free publicity for tim minchin
YES!
Lynna@27:
Chapter 1: Equipment
1. Bible
2. Holy water (optional – the converted papists still like to rely on it.)
3. Pledge paddle
4. Rod and reel (mono-filament 20 lb test works best)
5. Grappling hook
6. Net
7. Belaying pin
8. Wheelbarrow
9. Circus cannon
10. Active volcano
P.S: Thanks Lynna OM for providing the quote from the delusional minister. I certainly don’t want people to think I was quoting you in my previous post.
My wife and I saw Tim Minchin’s tour kick-off show in Detroit last week — a full house in a venerable downtown rock venue, and while it was amusingly clear that a few attendees’ dates were not prepared for full-on Minchin, it was an excellent show. Lots of material I hadn’t heard before, and a really clever look at what “sacred” means, using copies of Harry Potter and the Quran. Glad to hear the situation is worked out and Dallas will get a proper dose of skepticism.
He might perhaps consider picking up a keyboard at a music store to keep around as a backup…
And how.
And let’s keep in mind also the serious difficulties you’re gonna have trackin’ ’em down if they skip town with the stuff. Sure, you can ask their followers where they’re at, but I tells ya, ya ask two different of that number the same question, you’ll get three different answers. At least. So skip tracing is just nuts.
And then, as mentioned, as to them paying on time? Fuddeaboutit. Listen, there’s this joker I hear about always saying he’s coming back to town ‘real soon now’ to settle his accounts, and it’s been some 2,000 years of that, now…
… so when one of that lot tells you the cheque’s in the mail, well, yeah, word to the wise: you should be able to work out from the forgoing just how much that’s gonna be worth to your accounts receivable people.
You can keep Ken Ham, but you can only have Tim Minchin on loan. OK?
I actually went to the show. As the tweets said, he did in fact get a piano. The show was great, and the audience was very enthusiastic. I personally find that most of his YouTube videos fall a bit flat, but he is amazing live.
As far as I could tell, pretty much everyone in the audience loved the show. The people in Dallas who would regard Tim as a demon don’t go to Lakewood Theater, which also hosts Rocky Horror twice a month.
I was at the show, and I wondered if Tim made the whole thing up. I thought surely nobody in a professional piano business would be that petty.
Oh well, we had some laughs at Norbert’s expense. I have to wonder if he would rent a piano to Elton “All the Young Girls Love Alice” John or Billy “Only the Good Die Young” Joel.