Islamic Inquisition » « Eid Bravo Femen! I kind of like these Femen protesters. Brave, bold, dangerous, daredevil, reckless, risky. They have made Jesus fall. What are others doing? Why don’t they make some other Gods fall to the ground? Related Islamic Inquisition » « Eid
roger ivanhart says
Good work, Femen!
It puts many men to shame.
kitty c. says
No this is not active feminism. This is obscene vandalism. Many people have exploited the teachings of Jesus and turned them into something shameful and despicable, but Jesus Himself was not shameful and despicable. What good came of destroying a work of art? Because it’s a religious one somehow that makes a statement for women and rights? It doesn’t. It makes a statement that the persons taking part in it’s destruction are no better than that which they are protesting against. Getting naked and commiting an act of vandalism does not make a person an activist who is out to achieve the desired goal of equality and fairness. Walking several miles to work in the hot summer days in the state of Mississippi for over two years because you’re boycotting public buses is what makes people activists that actually accomplish something. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr accomplished something positive. Mohandas Gandhi accomplished something postive. The people in the Femen video accomplished an act of vandalism which is no worthy accomplishment.
When someone comes to your land or home and destroys something that belongs to you, that’s bad. It’s bad when someone destroys some religious work of cultural heritage or artistic merit. However, when someone takes down a mass-produced image stuck up in what appears to be a public place, that’s fine by me. Did a majority of the citizens of Kiev vote to have an almost nude image of a man being tortured to death looming over their city? Zealots have to stop assuming that others want to constantly be confronted with their religious eyesores and clutter. Even if your country has a majority of one religion, everyone should learn some taste and humility.
No, sorry. I can’t get behind property destruction like this.
kitty c. says
I can’t either. These people accomplished nothing but an act of vandalism. Anyone can vandalize property. That’s no kind of accomplishment.
kitty c. says
I can’t either. It’s not moral couragwe to commit an act of vandalism. It is not active feminism either. What good did destroying this property accomplish? Many people have turned the teachings of Jesus into something shameful and despicable. Jesus Himself wasn’t shameful and despicable though. In fact He was a pretty stand up guy. The people who took part in this video are no better than that which they are protesting. Anyone can get naked and vandalize something. The people who walked to work and everywhere else in the southern heat of Alabama for over two years because they were boycotting public buses had moral courage. Dr. Martin Luther King, jr had courage. Mohandas Gandhi had moral courage. Medgar Evers had moral courage. The woman with the chainsaw, no not so much. She’s got a nice body that she wants to show off and shock people with publically. This stunt isn’t a demonstration for freedom, equality, and feminism. It is more worthy of the Howard Stern show if anything.
These women have demonstrated great moral courage, as well as physical strength. Vandalizing a stick of wood (which might well have been public property anyway) is *nothing* compared to robbing three women of even a day of freedom, much less two years apiece.
That’s our standard? As long as we don’t quite stoop as low as our opponents we can still claim the moral high ground? So what’s next, burning churches? Dynamiting Buddhas? That’s only vandalizing things, right?
Civil resistance, political pressure and the international community should be our tools, not chainsaws.
Those are completely separate incidents.
You can’t justify destroying someones property because find something unjust. You are truly fucked if you think this is okay.
Not surprised this Taslima nutjob is saying Bravo.
Albert Bakker says
Just because it is public property doesn’t make it sacred. It is wrong I think because it is irrelevant, it is counterproductive, it sends exactly the wrong message: oppressed group cuts down symbol for victims of state oppression, not symbol of toxic religious influences.
kitty c. says
Peaceful protests. Like Dr. King and Gandhi. Never let anger and rage have more power than reason and fairness.
Not to mention we are lost if we cannot appear to be better than our enemies. this is utterly disasterous.
kitty c. says
It’s not courageous to vandalize something. Anyone can do that. What takes real courage is to go on a hunger strike like Mohandas Gandhi did, demanding an end to all the fighting. That took courage. It took courage for President Lyndon B. Johnson to sign into law the Civil Rights Act and to order U.S. military to enforce the de-segregation laws in American schools in the south. It was brave fr Martin Luther King, jr to continue to stand with people of fairness and decency for everyone;s rights, when he knew it was very likely he would get killed. Medgar Evers had courage. MLK had courage. These women have shock value. It’s not the same thing.
Albert Bakker says
Yes that might be true Riptide, but that doesn’t make it right. I agree with Nathair.
Also I want to add that to use a chainsaw like this is epically stupid.
When you can’t rely on the courts to provide justice, you have to do what you can to create your own. I hope this turns out to be an incredibly expensive trial for the ROC when all is said and done.
This justice really seems to be confirming the claims of the accusers, not refuting them!
Apparently, Ukrainian special forces have got the Femen headquarters surrounded…
It’s important to note that they did not just cut down any old cross. It was a memorial to victims of Stalin. Yea, they cut down a memorial to millions and millions of people who suffered grave human rights abuses. And this is supposed to be a protest promoting human rights??
I understand being against religion being used as a blanket monument, but it is not their place to destroy something that means so much to others.
Also, I hate Femen. Their protests rarely have a direct link to what they’re supposedly protesting. Usually, they are just prancing around without shirts. I have no problem with women going topless if they see fit, but this group has repeatedly gone topless to “protest” sex trafficking and political matters. Boobs do not inherently equal protest. They are just empty shock tactics.
“”It’s important to note that they did not just cut down any old cross. It was a memorial to victims of Stalin. Yea, they cut down a memorial to millions and millions of people who suffered grave human rights abuses. And this is supposed to be a protest promoting human rights??””
It’s like if Coca-cola had erected a memorial, a giant neon coca-cola symbol, in support and memory of thousands of factory workers attacked in the anti-coke riots of ’46. The horror it would be if somebody defaced it when it was discovered that they had paid a group to riot against rival RC Cola recently. Completely out of line and attacking the victims of the riots rather than the company, right?
I’m sorry, but you might have an argument if the memorial was anything other than a branding symbol of the church. There are valid reasons to disagree with FEMEN’s tactics in this case, but their choice of target is not one of them.
The Bobs says
It is also legitimate to view the cross as a symbol of patriarchy. Patriarchy is evil and cutting the cross is an attack on the patriarchy. Totally justified.
I disagree. Mainly because unlike soft drinks, all religions do have significant things to do with human grief. Plus the symbols are often important to people even if they disagree with the management. They are wrong, of course, but they ARE different. They suck at it, definitely, and are wrong about heaven and everything, and yes, a bane to victims not Christian.
The cross you’re talking about is made of stone.
The wooden one was installed about seven years ago during Orange Revolution. Can’t find any mention of a proper permit for such installation. So basically not only FEMEN have hit a lot of people with their act (Russian segment of Internet is full of threats and religious laments) but they have performed a communal service.
Who Knows? says
In this case the Church has worked with the state to imprison three people unjustly. This makes the cross, the Church’s symbol, a valid target.
Good for the femens. I think I’ll knock down a couple in support.
Man that was shitty chainsawing. Loved everything else.
I don’t care if Christianity has a terrible history, I say leave artifacts alone. It bothers me to see people burning books and tearing down memorials. It reminds me of Muslims in Mecca and Timbuktu destroying pieces of antiquity, or the Romans burning the Jewish Temple. Just because the religion is immoral doesn’t mean you should destroy the evidence that it exists! Our history as humans is littered with shit, and we should not forget it.
Who Knows? says
If they burnt down a church built a thousand years ago, or even a couple hundred years ago, I might agree with you. But the fact that something was built by a religion, doesn’t automatically make it historically important.
You’re right, of course. But I am under the impression that this cross was a memorial to Stalin’s victims, and that it wasn’t just erected yesterday.
Island Adolescent says
It was erected 7 years ago.
Don’t assume. You know what your 3rd grade teacher told you.
Exactly. Not yesterday.
Phillip Helbig says
I agree with the protesters but disagree with the mode of protest. Yes, it’s a religious symbol, and the verdict was religiously motivated, so it’s a logical target, but that doesn’t mean it is a fair target.
In Denmark, Paganism (i.e. belief in Odin and Thor) is officially recognized as a religion. I say, recognize all or recognize none. I am not a Christian. However, pagan folks (in this case from the death-metal scene) burning down historically important wooden churches from the Middle Ages goes too far. This cross wasn’t inherently as important, but the reason it is wrong is the same.
As to Femen protesting (semi-)nude: this is probably mainly to get media attention. As such, it is successful, but it works only as long as media are willing to cover a story if there is nudity and not otherwise, which is not something we should be supporting. (The Nude Revolutionary Calendar is somewhat different, since part of what is being protested against is the idea that the nude body is bad.) In any case, we shouldn’t indirectly support a world where nudity automatically implies protest.
For Christ’s sake, put some clothes on!
…seriously, operating a chainsaw while half naked is not wise. They send sharp projectiles flying in every direction.
Hahahah you dumb fucks.