So why do they always disappoint me?
Top of the list: demand an end to the war in Iran, and stop giving Israel support for genocide. Is this too much to ask? It’s the bare minimum exercise of human decency. Stop killing people. But too many Democrats are in the pocket of AIPAC to take a forthright position on something so simple.
Next on the list, but still pretty important: disband ICE. I know it was pushing it too far to ask to defund the police in general, but ICE is nothing but a right-wing murder squad. They killed Joan Sebastian Guerrero in Maine yesterday, and Lorenzo Salgado Araujo in Texas last week. Their new excuse: they were fearing for public safety
, so they were justified in gunning down a member of the public who was not threatening the public safety. That’s a damned fine excuse, one they could use to justify shooting me, because it’s so vague.
It’s all so nebulous that the goons who murdered Renee Good and Alex Pretti are still running free, the FBI has been stonewalling Minnesota authorities (sub-goal: fire Kash Patel and have him arrested), and they only recently allowed prosecutors to examine the evidence, more than 7 months after the murder of Good. ICE is basically an interstate assassination cartel operating on behalf of Donald Trump and Stephen Miller, specifically looking for an excuse to kill brown people and antifa.
If a candidate for office can’t pass those two easy hurdles, they will not be getting my vote. I’m fed up with politicians who refuse to address those two simple issues.
It’s the problem of always being the lesser of two evils: The line between the two evils grows thinner every time. And then they have the audacity to be surprised when would-be voters give up on the process.
In Minnesota, Klobuchar is running for governor, and she’s OK by my criteria. She talks the talk, but I’m less satisfied with the way she walks the walk.
Peggy Flanagan and Angie Craig are competing for the Minnesota senate seat. Craig voted to enable ICE, a vote she now regrets, but I’m still holding it against her. Peggy Flanagan is getting my vote.
Craig can eat shit for her weak excuses.
I’m not the biggest fan of Klobuchar, but her running mate showed up to one of our anti-ICE protests and borrowed one of my signs that explicitly called them out as fascists.
Side note, AIPAC has lost a lot of influence recently. It was never about their money but about appearing to be on the side of a historically oppressed people. When many of that same ethnic group are criticizing you for supporting genocide, that goes out the window.
oh it’s absolutely also about their money. us politicians are historically cheap dates and openly corrupt in this respect.
Not all Democrats.
A lot of them have been vocal and effective in opposing the christofascists of the GOP.
That would include AOC, the new mayor of NYC, Senators like Sanders and Patti Murray of Washington, governors like Newsom of California, etc..
Then again, Chuck Schumer to take one prominent example, does a great imitation of a house plant.
Schumer is also the Senate minority party leader, which makes him one of the most powerful elected Democratic party leaders. I’d pay money to see Schumer get primaried out of office.
PZ’s summary of ICE is correct.
In a just world, those ICE killers of innocent people like Rene Good would be tried for murder. So would the leaders of ICE and the Border Patrol.
No Statute of Limitations for murder.
It may happen yet, even if it takes a decade or two.
Not all Democrats, but far too many fall short of what we expect of our politicians. The good ones are the exceptions who tend to be suppressed by the political money machine.
I really hope there’s some big series of trials on ICE members in the future. No one who joined that organization should be able to live in peace after what they’ve done or enabled their colleagues to do. They have to be made to face justice.
I have only seen ads for Craig, and not Flanagan. Maybe I should watch more live TV. I have read that Craig voted for ICE. I hold that against her too. Its nice that regrets it, but for fuck sake. anyone could see that ICE was a bad fucking idea. What other bad things will she “regret.” do the right thing first.
Renee, Alex and the other ICE victims blood is on her hands too.
I’m well impressed with Melanie Stansbury, the Rep from New Mexico’s 1st congressional district.
I wish there was a possibility of creating a real third party that would represent the needs of the people.
@6: Not just “members” of ICE but the assholes giving them orders, up to and definitely including David J. Venturella, Marcos Charles (I had to look up ICE bossmen), Lance Schroyer (newly announced boss-to-be) and their bosses, up to and including Herr Miller, Obergruppenführer emeritus Musk, and of course the big (and I do mean fat) enchilada.
Primaries are important. Keep track of the candidates and hold them to account.
And remind friends and relatives that voting is important, because if you don’t vote -and many others do the same- the politicians will stop caring.
High participation rates in votes is a sign of a healthy democracy.
Check your favorite congresscritter here: https://www.trackaipac.com/
To even wonder how much a politician is getting from AIPAC is an act of antisemitism, in the eyes of those who would think nothing of sending US soldiers into a land war to die…for Israel.
Then they weren’t would-be voters, were they? Evident after the fact.
They were maybe-be voters.
Anyway, voting for the lesser of two evils is always better than abrogating one’s option to have a say in the outcome.
By definition!
It is a completely sub-optimal strategy to decide that if one can’t have all one wants, one might as well have nothing.
https://theicelist.org/index.php/Main_Page
Tell an ICE agent to go fuck themselves today!
Mean while Trump has been forced to pay off E. Jean Carroll $5.8 millions at long last. Trump could have paid off three years ago, but that is not the Trump way. But now it is done.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/e-jean-carroll-has-been-paid-5-8-million-three-years-after-trump-sex-abuse-and-defamation-verdict
When I first moved to Mpls in 1987 Klobuchar was the DA of Hennepin County. Never a fan, but I voted for her every time, because she was the best candidate available (and a little respect for her dad, Jim IYKYK).
So she’s been on every ballot I’ve cast here. She will do ok as Governor.
My interest is in the Senate race. When I moved across the river, my rep was Betty McCollum MN CD-04. After a little boundary tweaking, I found myself suddenly in Angie Craig’s district MN CD-02. I’ve never been a fan of her, mainly for the same reasons I wasn’t a big fan of Tim Walz until he became Governor (free breakfast and lunch for all school aged kids sealed the deal for me). He was never my rep, so I didn’t see him directly. Craig, I do see directly.
The Senate matchup between her and Lt. Gov Peggy Flanagan (who by all rights should be our Governor now) will be interesting. The ad ratio lately has been lately 20-1 Craig (mostly throwing slime at Flanagan) vs. Peggy (telling us how she wants to move forward). I’m just glad to have a ballot where Angie Craig is not the best candidate available for the slot.
The primary race for her seat also could be interesting. Three guys (yes, all men) are running, two I know very little about, but the third I know way too much. I was inclined to support this guy until he started bombing my inbox with texts about how awesome he is, and because I am so much smarter than him, I must support him.
I ended up writing his campaign twice telling them that if they want to lose potential voters, keep sending texts like that. Unless I find anything ‘Planteresque’ on the other two (I got a month to decide), this guy has pretty much lost my vote.
Ok, I’ll explain…
Jim Klobuchar was a legendary columnist for the St. Paul Pioneer Press. He was also a hard-core alcoholic, but eventually got sober. He detailed his journey in print. Being such a public and respected local fixture, to open up his life like that, was a revelation for me.
So fast forward to when his daughter, Senator Amy Klobuchar is grilling potential SC nominee Brent Kavanaugh about his alcohol use, and his ‘what about you!’ retorts, all I could think was “you’re barking up the wrong tree, dude”.
Amy may not inspire me like Paul Wellstone did, but she’s done a pretty good job. I will still vote for her.
I have considered myself a two state solution guy for decades, which has put me implicitly on the Zionist side of the equation as it means Israel has a right to exist outside of Gaza and the West Bank (Jerusalem should be a separate unaffiliated entity).
Given Israel’s behavior under Netanyahu and the vicious settler allies and the disgusting garbage propaganda of shitheads like Jerry Coyne who obsess every fucking day over Israel I am rethinking my position and that maybe Israel should not be it’s own thing anymore. Fuck them and their blogging cheerleaders pulling us into Iran.
The US needs to cease ALL aid to Israel and let them deal with life on their own even with their bullshit Samson option. They after all made the desert bloom on their own. Right?
They are a ridiculous country that has put the US in a precarious situation too many times. Good riddance.
Enjoy the oil related inflation as things escalate now with Iran. I guess if I were a retired right leaning professor with an old Civic I rarely drive I could afford the looming economic repercussions and still post gluttonous foodie pics because I have no self-awareness? Cherry pick right wing sources who agree with me, except awkwardly Andrew Sullivan who was too critical of Israel.
And not only never fail to castigate the Democrats from a Zionist POV but also from a strong anti-trans POV. And agree with the always out of touch kook Bill Maher on the young people with blue hair.
The 60s were the bestest when he refused Vietnam (but still expects US soldiers to fight Iran for Israel?). The Beatles were better than Tool NOT!
Fucking asshats. When you’re old as shit younger generations are always an easy target. That The Who song sounds apt now doesn’t it Boomers! How many damaged US soldiers might Iran create?
Also I echo that neocon bastard Bill Kristol in his consistent calling for the abolition of ICE. From the “enlightened centrists” we instead get me-tooism about immigration. And a whole recent post about how bad Kamala was (virtue signaling POS propaganda that). Sounds like some of the chowderheads StevoR lambastes far too often here. Except they are actually leftists. Horseshoes.
I entirely agree about the feeble response of the Democrats as a whole and disbanding ICE and prosecuting the killers in their ranks, The same is true for this whole corrupt administration. Unfortunately, the reality is that nothing can or will be done until after the midterms at the earliest
On Israel, I think the hawkish right and the settlers have gone too far, But Israel is one small country surrounded by a lot of hostile neighbors. October 7th showed what Hezbollah and Hamas would love to do to the whole country given half a chance, A two-state solution sounds like the best way, if both sides agree, but previous offers of just that have been turned down in the past. So where do we go?
Since you ask, first maybe read up on the West Bank over the years.
The settlers. The blind eye. The murders, tortures, rapes.
I dunno. Maybe stop turning a blind eye to the atrocities?
(sow the wind, right?)
If you vote for the lesser of two evils this time around, you are basically showing them that you are prepared to vote for evil. And next time around, the lesser of the two evils might well be worse than the greater evil was this time.
@ ^ bluerizlagirl . : But if you you vote for the greater fascist evil – IF you’re given a chance to properly vote at all and there actually is a next time… then that’s somehow better
No. Its always relative and its always the case that voting for the worst evil is voting for the worst or worse and more evil.
You don’t get unicorns in political reality,. Nor any reality actually
You get the choices you get – and they’ll never be perfect. but one political party willbe more left wing and the other more reichwing every time in the USoA’s two party system. Your choice of which you support and which way that then shifts the Overton window, SCOTUS & wider society.
@18 Hemidactylus : Sounds like some of the chowderheads StevoR lambastes far too often here.
Not often enough actually I’d say!
Of course, I don’t have to be the ONLY one doing so. Feel free to help in any good cause.
Gotcha. Either vote for the greater evil, or do not vote at all.
That is a brilliant strategy! Sure to get the best results, no?
(Good grief! Why not cut off your nose to spite your face, too?)
bluerizlagirl @21: I don’t know why so many supposedly educated* adults don’t seem to understand these very simple rules:
(1) On election day, vote for the lesser evil
(2) The other 99.9% of the time, support progressive candidates at every level, and hold the ‘lesser evil’ folks’ feet to the fire.
If you’re not prepared to do (2), you really should shut the fuck up about (1).
*Maybe an unwarranted assumption
Maybe get a million zillion signatures on a petition of the lowest bar we (meaning you American Dem voters) are willing to accept from any Dem presidential candidate, to shape part of the process even before the next bout of primaries begin.
.
#1 accept zilch from AIPAC and its proxies.
#2 No “forgive and move on” in the way Obama, Clinton or Carter did.Go after both the bosses and the minions. Hard.
Make laws that say a suspect criminal cannot pardon himself, nor helpers in his criminal enterprises. This requires potentially retroactive laws, so
#3 Add four new justices to SCOTUS.
With term limits for all new ones. And ethical rules.
4 scrap the wossname 60- vote limit on senate voting.
5 Abolish ICE. It is beyond redemption. It’s potentially useful functions can be taken over by other federal agencies.
“The personal, as everyone’s so fucking fond of saying, is political. So if some idiot politician, some power player, tries to execute policies that harm you or those you care about, take it personally. Get angry. The Machinery of Justice will not serve you here – it is slow and cold, and it is theirs, hardware and soft-. Only the little people suffer at the hands of Justice; the creatures of power slide from under it with a wink and a grin. If you want justice, you will have to claw it from them. Make it personal. Do as much damage as you can. Get your message across. That way, you stand a better chance of being taken seriously next time. Of being considered dangerous. And make no mistake about this: being taken seriously, being considered dangerous marks the difference – the only difference in their eyes – between players and little people. Players they will make deals with. Little people they liquidate. And time and again they cream your liquidation, your displacement, your torture and brutal execution with the ultimate insult that it’s just business, it’s politics, it’s the way of the world, it’s a tough life and that it’s nothing personal. Well, fuck them. Make it personal.”
Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
Addendum to my @ 26
.
I chose not to include “Tax the billionaires” because the pro-oligarch Dems are already opposed to change.
Let’s not give their propaganda machinery more they can distort to block change.
It is hard enough to get legacy Democrats on board with the need to get really tough on fascism.
The list is mainly concentrated on fighting back, and not ever letting a new Trump get his hands on the White House.
.
Also
6 strive to make voting easier.
This means take back control of the postal service.
Make voting day a day off work. Make it federal law that people in voting lines have the right to have water brought to them.
Make states pay a hefty fine if they allow lines to get very long in multiple voting sites, that is a sign it was intentional.
No more gerrymander! Work together with the Arnold and other non-corrupt Republicans to work out the rules.
Rob @25: Did that myself. Got repeatedly blamed for Harris’ loss despite holding my nose and voting for her. You’re not wrong about doing #2, but it’s getting ever harder with a lot of mainstream Dems demanding blind loyalty to the candidate they’ve decided has the heavenly mandate of “electability.” …A notion which hasn’t been updated since when, the 1990’s?
Don’t worry, Trump will make it illegal to be a socialist and the Democrats and liberals will be only too happy to help.
Then you’ll never have to worry about “purity politics” again. Sure, America will still be a capitalist, Christian shithole, but at least the bogie libs allowed to vote can do so without worrying about those ungrateful peasants interfering by demanding politicians what aren’t two-faced centrists who will sell the people down the river in the name of “bipartisanship” (and “stock holder value).
(Crossposted)
This is a sample of the people certain Democrats want to get along with.
.
“Jesse Dollemore: Accusations Against Lindsey Graham Revealed”
While we only have one person’s testimony (so far) it follows the usual script of hypocrasy and bigotry so closely I give it something like 99% credibiliy. The part of him wearing red lingerie while paying a college student for sex may or may not be an embellishment, I don’t know how much Republicans are into weird fetishes.
But if the first part is true, the other detail is probably true.
.
I just wish we had a photo so we could print posters titled “Your Republican Representatives’ Family Values At Work”
.https://youtube.com/watch?v=83BXUmXL6oA
Wow:
Recipe for personal pain and suffering and loss.
Terrible advice for the little people, unless it’s to be tortured and liquidated first.
Whyever would one want to be tortured and brutally executed because one made it personal?
I mean, it maybe sorta can work for in certain circumstances if one is a highly-trained Envoy with supreme, lethal combat and general uber-competence. Most of us, however (the little people, remember?) aren’t hyper-trained, elite special forces soldiers who can’t be killed by killing the body. Just find a new one, voilà!
The Democratic party might be disappointing but then what are the Repugs?
The Repugs are just horrifying and outright fascist.
The Democrats can be persuaded and improved.
The Repugs just get ever worse and worse and more extreme.
Sadly, USoA those are your options in your two party nation..
PS. This :
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2026/06/28/infinite-thread-xxxx/comment-page-2/#comment-2306398
wouldn’;t be the case under Kamala now would it?
Under her Trump would be rotting in jail where he belongs. Not dominating global news every day and having the nuclear keys.
Hate to tell you this, StevoR, but here in Oz only one of two parties has been in power for 125 years.
Where you reside.
Basically, either the Australian Labor Party (ALP) or the Liberal-National Coalition (or its historic conservative predecessors like the United Australia, Nationalist, or Protectionist parties) since the first Parliament in 1901.
(You gotta remember, we elected Abbot & Costello to be bosses. For real)
Jeepers. You ‘Americans’ sure buy into the “By the people, for the people” crap.
Your nation was born with a government by the wealthy elite for the wealthy elite. This is why non elites (you know, women, non-landowners, people of colour etc) have had to fight tooth-and-nail over the intervening 2.5 centuries for the right of representation.
But you are, and I believe always will be, a capitalist nation governed by the wealthy elite for the wealthy elite because this is how the power structure was formed during your infancy. So please stop being surprised that your nation’s politicians are influenced and manipulated by those with the most capital.
@35. John Morales : “Hate to tell you this, StevoR, but here in Oz only one of two parties has been in power for 125 years.
Where you reside.”
Actually that’s NOT quite true – There was a time when the Australian Greens were actually in government as a coalition partner with Julia Gillard’s ALP back when she was PM. Around 2010 – 2013.
Also, of course, the LNP is (usually!) a Coalition of two parties -The Liberals and Nationals so that makes four governing parties in various coalitions albeit the ALP & Liberals have generally been the very dominant partners. Still multiple party system in fact.
Oh and, of course, here hwe have preferential voting so can vote 1 greens 2 ALP and send a message without electing the very worst of the worst like they do in the USoA where you cannot do this and votes for The USoA Greens are de facto votes for the Repugs..
I am well aware of our Aussie political history and our system and its quirks BTW.
It ha s also recently been the case that The LNP looks utterly defeated and dying and the racist fringe One Neuron party looks like replacing it to a degree – possibly in coailtion with the dregs of the dregs of the leftoevrs of the LNP too.
StevoR, you either forget your history or fail to grok a minority government.
I am being quite truthful and accurate.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Australian_federal_election)
Unlike the National Party in the Liberal-National Coalition, no Greens MPs were appointed to Julia Gillard’s Cabinet or Ministry. They held no executive power, no portfolios, and did not sit in the government benches. Rather, they promised not to block the budget and to vote against any opposition motions of no confidence, allowing the ALP to form government.
You thought the Greens were in government, which they were not.
@ ^ John Morales : Actually, yes they were back in 2010 albeit breifly.
Emphasis added.
Source : https://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-09-01/greens-labor-seal-deal/966044
Oh and there’s also been many examples of Independents and minor party eg the Australian Democrats* having the balance of power and thus significant influenc eover policy and other decisions and being able to change govts.
Our system ain’t pefect but it is vastly superior to the USoA’s one as, I think, are most proper Parliamentary democracies of the Westminster** and European eg French, Icelandic etc.. varieties.
.* See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Democrats
.** See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system
Mate! Yes, 3rd parties do have influence here.
But they never ever have been in government.
Again: “The incumbent Labor government, led by Prime Minister Julia Gillard was re-elected to a second term”.
Not the Greens. Labor. The alternative to the Coalition.
Exactly what I wrote above. You said they got into government, but no. They lent their support.
—
Dunno about ‘vastly’, or even ‘superior’, but it for sure is less antiquated and unfit for purpose in this day and age.
Sure. Compulsory voting, ranked preferences, money limits, all that matters.
Delays, for all the horses to carry people to places.
An actual election, not some weird electoral college that is a very few actual electors, for some things.
But then… shitloads of elections. For just about any role that is community-facing.
Different, is all.
@ 24 Morales
No, you idiot, because one outcome does not exist in isolation. If you vote for the less evil, you reward that. If you don’t, that party thinks, “what did we do wrong”, and may come to the stunning conclusion they should try not being evil.
This is literally playing out in the UK where the Labour party tried being the “slightly less right” party and it was disastrous. While the Green party presented themselves as the “actually progressive” party and have had a massive surge in popularity.
Almost certainly, if the Democrats abandoned center-right candidates like Clinton and Harris and fielded an actual progressive candidate they would obliterate Trump. Instead we have clowns like Stevo encouraging people to keep rewarding Democrats for being as right wing as possible.
Listen to PZ. There are are millions who feel the same. Give them a progressive candidate. Not a slightly less evil than the most evil candidate.
For the benefit of the StevoRs and Moraleses who seem very confused about something that should be obvious to a child:
If you are the opposition to a right wing party, and you think, “right-wing is popular so we’ll do that but a little less to capture left-wing voters” (the Harris strategy) you are doomed to fail.
Because right wing voters want full strength right, not right lite. And left wing voters don’t want any right at all.
What you have to do is be an actual alternative to the right, that is left.
But political parties respond to what gets votes. If you use StevoR’s clown logic and vote for any party no matter how horrible as long as there’s something more horrible the message you send is, “we love horrible, please be horrible”, and they incorporate that into their policies going forward.
If, like PZ, you will not vote for the horrible the message you send is, “we will not tolerate horrible”, and they incorporate that into their policies going forward.
They may lose an election to learn the lesson, then they come back being not horrible and win.
(Hypotheticallly – Democrats have been fielding neoliberal center-right candidates for years and losing over and over. Slow learners.)
Voting for the lesser of two evils no matter how evil is guaranteed over time to ratchet up “acceptable” evil.
Hopefully that has been expressed simply enough even Stevo and Morales can grasp it.
^
No you moron. If you vote for the lesser evil you actually reward them for being, um, less evil.
If you don’t vote for the lesser evil and the greater evil wins, there is nothing to stop the lesser evil from thinking “look, obviously what we did wrong was being less evil than the evil fuckers who just got rewarded with all the power for being the evil fuckers.”
Unlike thinking people, the LNP decided that because they lost for being evil fuckers they needed to up the evil and be fucking nasty evil fuckers instead. They don’t think that they should tone down the evil to appeal to a larger cohort of voters who hate the evil fuckers so voted them out.
By allowing the evil fuckers to win because the lesser evil weren’t rainbow unicorns blowing powdered magic mushrooms up your nose, you help push the Overton window out the fucking window entirely.
Silentbob @42
Actually listening to PZ, when it came to vote for POTUS didn’t he vote for Harris:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2026/07/08/another-reason-to-have-voted-for-kamala/
I did too. Deal with it.
I get the whole schtick about the Third Way and neoliberalism. Despicable Biden was the Senator from MBNA. I voted for him too. Faced with actual fascism we don’t have the luxury of the ideal choice.
@ 41. John Morales : Mate! Yes, 3rd parties do have influence here. But they never ever have been in government.
Er, Nationals party as partof the LNP for decades? Plus Greens circa 2010?
Third parties have held power and been governing ones just NOT on their own – but yes, as parts of coalitions they certainly have been.
Name one. Go on. I damn well know you cannot.
You are a bold-faced liar on this one, after I pointed out twice now that is a false claim.
The Coalition is a coalition, not one of its constituents.
You furthermore apparently don’t get what a minority government is in our Westminster system.
Again: StevoR, you either forget your history or fail to grok a minority government.
I am being quite truthful and accurate.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Australian_federal_election)
Unlike the National Party in the Liberal-National Coalition, no Greens MPs were appointed to Julia Gillard’s Cabinet or Ministry. They held no executive power, no portfolios, and did not sit in the government benches. Rather, they promised not to block the budget and to vote against any opposition motions of no confidence, allowing the ALP to form government.
I give up. Be an ignoramus.
@ ^ John Morales : Its not being an “ïgnoramus” to note that there was an agreement between the Greens and Julia Gillard’s ALP making them them partners in govt. Albeit, yes, unequal ones – and yes, I remember that era well. Just wish it had lasted longer and Gillard hadn’t been undermined by Rudd and the media demonisation of her -very much like HRC and Kamala were undermined in some ways.
I do recall Tony Windsor* and Rob Oakeshott** well too and they were part of that minority govt as independents too – that meant they did have a lot of power and influence and it wasn’t just the case that the ALP could do as it pleased. Gillard needed the Greens and those independents to actually govern.
Perhaps its a matter of persepctive here? I agree the 2010 Gillard coalition of Greens and independents was a minority govt but also I’d say the formal agreement – coaltion with the Greens – meant they were in power too albeit not just by themselves.
Yes, same applies to the Coalition between the Liberals and Nationals and, yes, the Nationals** although being part of the LNP coalition are ALSO their own (third) party even though they are very close (certainly much closer than the Greens and ALP which is a shame) to the Liberal party they co-governed with and so we do (did) have that third party governing albeit as the junior partner for decades NOT just the (Aussie) Libs. Unfortunately.
Anyhow, point is third parties can and do play a constructive role in Aussie politics and NOT just spoil the election for the major party they are more aligned with by splitting the vote as happens in the USoA.
Whether you think that makes them co-ruling parties as I see it or not is a separate question.
.* See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Windsor
.** Plus : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Oakeshott
.*** Also : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_of_Australia
What it’s ‘not’ StevoR is a robust discussion, or an exchange of ideas, or an opportunity to learn, or an honest good faith discussion between sincerely disagreeing but otherwise looking for an honest solution type interlocutors. It just is not that, and was never going to be, and will never be in the future. Spending time on crafting arguments and providing supporting evidence and so on is not going to lead anywhere. It’s hard to waste on almost infinite resource like blog post space, but here we are. I predict that neither you nor I will not have the last word here. We’ll see.
Nah. StevoR is plain wrong. Either that, or Wikipedia is wrong.
I know. Which is why I gave up.
(You are a cute little remora, BTW. Bit like pet, by now :)