I’ve been saying this for a long time: Musk is a poseur. He’s not a great engineer; when he directly meddled in the process at Tesla, the result was the Cybertruck, or his fake robot. He’s definitely not a good scientist, as witnessed by Neuralink. His efforts at social engineering are disastrous — look at what he’s done to Twitter. Musk is just a guy with a lot of money who buys people to do work he can attach his name to. The only thing exceptional about him is his ego.
So when he started bragging about being a great gamer, you could predict that that was all a lie.
During an appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience, Musk boasted that he was one of the top-ranked Diablo IV players in the world.
Shockingly, this turned out to be true (at least, at the time), but really, it shouldn’t have been possible—presumably, Musk doesn’t have enough spare hours in the day.
Recently, Musk attracted the suspicions of gamers again after revealing himself to be a top player of Path of Exile 2, with his high-level characters equipped with extremely powerful gear, indicating that a significant amount of hours had been pumped into his account.
Rather foolishly, Musk livestreamed himself playing the game, and gamers instantly clocked him as an inept player.
A detailed Reddit thread laying out the evidence against Musk makes it clear that he wasn’t familiar with basic gameplay mechanics of Path of Exile 2, and couldn’t possibly have leveled up his own characters by himself.
Gamers noted that Musk’s equipment was even better than Twitch streamers who play the game full-time for a living—the world’s richest man appears to have hired players to strengthen his characters.
I’m not a great gamer, not even a good one, but years ago I played World of Warcraft, and it was easy to tell when you had a fake player in your midst. Playing that game well required a thorough understanding of the mechanics — you had to be familiar with optimal sequence of attacks, you had to know the cooldowns on your magic items, you had to know the choreography of a boss fight. You could just use lots of money to buy top-tier gear, and you could pay someone to level up your character for you, but then the person who did that wouldn’t have the reflexes or the expertise to be effective. Those were the guys you’d invite to a raid because they had the glittering armor and the magnificent sword who would then, in the fight, stand in the fire and spam one button.
It’s easy for real players to spot the phonies.
It is pathetic that the richest man in the world who is running (badly) multiple companies and has the ear of the soon-to-be president and has what, 13 kids feels the need to pretend to be a super-cool elite gamer, too. No one is fooled.
I heard that one time he jumped his skateboard over a car, but nobody saw it.
Elon has hundreds of billions of dollars and some folks can’t retire. I guess that makes him ‘fake’. Grimes takes care of Musk’s kids.
There are myriad ways to get attention and respect.
If he was as smart as he thinks he is, he would be sponsoring “Team Musk” in Formula One speed racing, sailboat racing, round-the-globe balloon racing and, of course, having lots of racing horses.
The last part reminds me of good old Bond villain Zorin, BTW.
He could have a big “Musk” museum in New York – it worked for that vile crook Rockefeller!
He could fly around the world in a private ekranoplan like the billionaire in William Gibson’s Blue Ant series.
He could build a goddamn nuclear-powered Zeppelin and never set foot on Earth, having his business meetings aloft (like Zorin did).
Hmm… human cloning? But to make replicas of himself he must first solve the considerable obstacles of cloning primates. That would take decades and cost billions… you know, this is a field where he could do some good!.
.
Also to avoid harmful mutations in somatic cells he would need to sponsor a program to reconstruct the zero-age fetal genome; that would require progress in sequencing the whole genome multiple times, not just the easy-to-sequence parts.
And he would have to pay up for understanding all the methylation issues.
The more I think of it, harnessing his infinite vanity could do a lot of good.
Oops. I guess Joex was fooled.
F*ck it, there are a grillion bajillion genuinely cool things he could do with his money. But he is choosing to hang out with the adjuciated rapist who bankrupted an effing casino.
Dunc @ 1
When he plays golf with the North Korean guy both make a hole-in-one!
This post from back when he bought Twitter springs to mind –
“He talked about electric cars. I don’t know anything about cars, so when people said he was a genius I figured he must be a genius.
Then he talked about rockets. I don’t know anything about rockets, so when people said he was a genius I figured he must be a genius.
Now he talks about software. I happen to know a lot about software & Elon Musk is saying the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard anyone say, so when people say he’s a genius I figure I should stay the hell away from his cars and rockets.”
Honestly, at this point, the only thing that could make me have even the slightest hint of respect for Elon Musk is if he actually withdrew from all of his business and public nonsense and picked up a video game hobby or something similar.
Personally, I have no ability to understand or respect the kind of person who has even an eight-figure fortune and decides to keep working instead of doing something they unequivocally enjoy.
Because it’s clear from his Twitter and other public interactions that Elon Musk is not actually having any fun in his life right now, regardless of the brave face he tries to put on.
And that’s just pathetic.
You’re wrong, PZ. Musk is not a fake asshole. That’s a well established characteristic. It’s real. You could tack on other things to that…sexist, misogynist, hater, narcissist…but asshole is good enough. As an asshole, Musk is consummate. He tops his previous asshole-ness practically every day.
He bought her too.
All Elon has going for him is huge quantities of money.
OTOH, money is useful for a lot of things.
It wasn’t her best move.
Just about everyone who has dealt with Elon Musk has quickly ended up regretting it.
Grimes ended up suing Elon Musk for a lot of things regarding their joint children.
She would have my sympathy but Grimes is a pretty strange person herself.
It must be a requirement to be Elon Musk’s brood stock.
This includes his own children from his breeding hobby.
His oldest daughter makes no secret that she doesn’t think much of her father.
Elon Musk earned that by first making it publicly obvious that he doesn’t much like her either.
Money might buy a lot of things but it doesn’t buy everything. It doesn’t make you a good person or a good parent.
There are rich guys who have spent years getting good at their hobbies. Many of the top yacht racers and air plane racers are like that because it’s a really hard sport to be in if you are not rich. Musk isn’t content to spend time actually getting good, he wants to enter at the top. If he can use his money to buy his way to the top he is fine with it, until he doesn’t get the same respect that people who actually worked their way up get.
This is something he has in common with Trump. Part of their motivation is getting respect, they want to be a highly respected figures. They don’t want to/can’t do anything to earn that respect so they try to buy it. And when that doesn’t work they go for petty childish revenge.
Look, Elon is just too busy saving the world from wokeness to prove just what mad video gaming skills he has. You don’t want him to look like a chump online, do you?
@2. Joex Regular : “Elon has hundreds of billions of dollars and some folks can’t retire. I guess that makes him ‘fake’.”
Nope – but if you’d read the actual post here you’d know that the things that do make Musk fake are :
1) Pretending to be a super-cool elite gamer when he isn’t.
2) Pretending to be a great engineer when he isn’t.
3) Pretending to be a good scientist when he isn’t.
4) Pretending to be a good social engineer – i.e. politically wise – when he’s a fucking nazi douchebag. Nazis, FYI, were miserable, utterly destructive catastrophic failures and advocating for the far far reichwing fringe of politics puts you, well, on the badly flawed, unsuccessful, unethical, far reichwing fringe of politics and culture.
5) Quite a lot more that the OP didn’t directly mention like pretending he deserves his wealth, has a good sense of humour, is good businessperson who deserves and earnt his weath etc..
If you disagree with any of these points please do explain why and make a logical case for your views backed up by actual evidence. Note that aquiring and hoarding a lot of $$$ because you started off in life with a South African emerald mine does NOT prove Musk’s claim in (5) is true rather than pretense. Who after all “deserves” to be born owning an emerald mine or having family access to great inherited wealth?
Oh and someone else looking after and raising Musk’s kids is meant to be a point in.. (checks your comment , thinks about what’s implied by it) Musks’ favour? Really?
That’s also a perfect description of DJT. Although I find nothing exceptional about their egos. A dime a dozen. It’s the combination of their egos and their money that makes them exceptional – exceptionally dangerous.
@ JM : “There are rich guys who have spent years getting good at their hobbies. Many of the top yacht racers and air plane racers are like that because it’s a really hard sport to be in if you are not rich.”
Then there’s also Lance Stroll in F1 motor racing who has purchased an F1 seat and, indeed, got his father to purchase an entire F1 team and then spent years NOT getting very good at his hobby.
See Why Everybody Hates Lance Stroll… by Throttle Talk, 7 mins approx long.
r/youtubedrama was having a field day because Musk was beefing with Asmongold (conservative react youtuber) over the PoE2 thing. Musk leaked DMs with Asmongold showing that Asmongold has editors. Musk apparently believes they’re like newspaper editors, and does not understand that video editors do not hold editorial control.
For more complete coverage of the Asmongold thing, maybe refer to a more mainstream outlet. Here’s one from PC Gamer.
I once heard someone who worked with Ted Turner relate a story about him. He said (paraphrased), “In every meeting, Ted spewed ideas. 9 out of 10 of them were the stupidest thing I had ever heard. The 10th was brilliant that nobody else had thought of, and that’s why he’s a billionaire.”
Key to the success of that approach is a strong filter from your team. Ted had, and listened to, his filters.
Elon has truly had some great ideas of his own. One that I know of is for SpaceX, he insisted on rather than starting with space-qualified parts, start with commercial-off-the-shelf parts and figure out how to test and/or up-qualify them. It’s why SpaceX ended up so much faster and cheaper than its rivals. But Elon, too, has always relied on those around him to push back on the stupid ideas, of which he’s had many (according to his close associates), and let the great ones bloom.
No longer, though, it appears. The problem with that model is that the billionaire remembers their successes and forgets their stupidities, and becomes more and more convinced that all their ideas are brilliant and they no longer have to listen to any push-back.
@1 dunc wrote: I heard that one time he jumped his skateboard over a car, but nobody saw it.
I reply: the elongated muskrat jumped the shark years ago!
PZ wrote: Musk is just a guy with a lot of money who buys people to do work he can attach his name to.
I reply: just as bad as Edison! Do we know the names of all those edison hired that did all the real work to make his unformed ideas work? NO!
the elongated muskrat and tRUMP are two of many who show the wold that now it is genius to throw shit at the wall and make your flunkies scrape off what sticks and call it wonderful,
@2, @11: Grimes takes care of HER kids. Musk has 8 or 9 others.
For a public figure of any stature to brag about his gaming skills is just plain pathetic, even if all the boasts are provably true. #QElon is showing the world that either he’s really this childish, OR he’s consciously rubbing his childishness in everyone’s faces just to show he can.
StevoR @17
Checks 2024 standings…Stroll did come in #13 which isn’t stellar, but one spot behind Tsunoda who is a sentimental cute puppy dog who kept getting car damage thanks to others during the season dammit. There were a handful of drivers behind Stroll who raced the entire season. Sargeant, the hapless Merkin, wasn’t one of those. Good riddance. There were worse than Stroll I guess. Daddy getting you a ride does make one a target for derision. Not everyone can be a nepo baby with the actual talent of Dale Jr in NASCAR. But still, for some reason Stroll, unlike Sargeant, is still in there. He might not be horrible then. Tsunoda too is still hanging in there.
I have no idea what will become of Checo, who wasn’t stellar this year. Umm, you know who came in #2, right? Wasn’t Piastri who still made #4. Here’s to the ousting of Max next year. Didn’t his dad race too?
After watching StevoR’s video, why is Perez without a spot while Stroll remains?
Far more importantly, will Kalvin Phillips make it back into the England squad by the 2026 World Cup? I sincerely hope so.
bugfolder @ 20
Which “commercial-off-the-shelf part” just blew up over the Turks and Caicos?
Oh looky, #QElon’s gaming scandal is getting worse now that he’s trying to silence and punish the dude who called him out:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/elon-musk-s-gaming-scandal-deepens-as-x-owner-attempts-to-silence-streamer-asmongold-for-blowing-the-whistle/ar-AA1xnX0g?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=d5a60e1d02ba4598b82f36f8412fc260&ei=7
Elon Musk faces mounting criticism from the gaming community, including Twitch streamer Asmongold, after controversial claims about his gaming prowess, leaked private messages, and actions that questioned his authenticity and credibility.
Elon Musk’s credibility as a self-proclaimed world-class gamer is under scrutiny after he clashed with popular Twitch streamer Asmongold, who challenged him to prove his skills in exchange for streaming exclusively on X for a year…
Instead of seizing the opportunity to lure Asmongold’s 3.6 million followers to his platform, Musk leaked private messages and stripped the streamer of his verification badge, which allows ad revenue sharing.
I’m kinda not into the likes of Meidas Touch but this video helped get me up to speed and Tennessee Brando points out the guy Musk is crash burning (like his rocket) against has a cockroach on his shirt:
Trump hasn’t even taken office yet!
For Musk to have attained his supposed gaming stature doing this while also advising Trump is chilling (I spare y’all the more apt poop bucket scene):
Musk struck me as a bona fide poseur when he asserted out of his ass that we live in a simulation. All his alleged cred should have instantly evaporated right then and there. Twit! He’s trying to create an image of himself for fanbois that seems quite inauthentic when the curtain is pulled away.
“For Musk to have attained his supposed gaming stature doing this while also advising Trump is chilling”
&
“His efforts at social engineering are disastrous — look at what he’s done to Twitter.” [from the OP]
I suggest that his advising Trump and his Twitter “disaster” are, um, not entirely disparate things.
I suppose if one imagines he bought Twitter as an actual financial or philanthropic investment, it’s been a disaster. It’s surely worth less now.
OTOH, he’s far richer now, and has gotten his hands on the political levers of power.
—
“The only thing exceptional about him is his ego.”
And that he’s the richest person on the list of rich persons.
(I’d call that the exception, not the rule)
@larpar wrote: “Which “commercial-off-the-shelf part” just blew up over the Turks and Caicos?”
That touches on a good point. The occasional blow-up is part of the SpaceX way (they’ve had quite a few), and that’s the price of fast and cheap; it’s still cheaper overall for them to lose the occasional test rocket. The bar of reliability is a lot higher for human passengers, of course. (Or it should be!)
John Morales @31
Having a Tony Stark fetish, gaming the system via social media acquisition for a lever of power, and being deludedly batshit crazy are not mutually exclusive I suppose. Given this current gaming fiasco one wonders what truly lurks behind the curtain with this guy. Why is coming across as gaming elite so important to his cultivated facade?
Can he go toe to toe in an influence battle with Bannon and ilk? Stay tuned…
@31 John Morales – I have no idea why Musk bought twitter but my guess would be for attention and power. If that is true, then buying twitter was huge success.
“Why is coming across as gaming elite so important to his cultivated facade?”
Why was it to SBF?
https://www.businessinsider.com/sbf-ftx-played-video-game-while-interviewed-on-live-tv-2023-10
John Morales @35
Does the article offer any insight into Musk’s cultivated facade given the current issue discussed on this thread? The one with the gamer with whom he interacted that called him out on his gaming chops?
No, the article is about sbf-ftx-played-video-game-while-interviewed-on-live-tv-2023-10, specifically in relation to your claim, which I quoted immediately preceding the adduction of that article.
It specifiically refers to the video-game playing and your speculative question, not to Musk’s cultivated facade.
Since you asked.
I wasn’t asking about Sam Bankman-Fried. Next time mustard sauce might make the herring more palatable.
Hemidactylus:
“I wasn’t asking about Sam Bankman-Fried.”
Neither was I answering about Sam Bankman-Fried.
That you see no significance whatsoever in that little detail about certain billionaires’ public presentation, given your ostensible question (“Why is coming across as gaming elite so important to his cultivated facade?”) is informative.
BTW, and this is not pedantic, I feel it would be good for you to know that “cultivated facade” is otiose.
(If it’s not cultivated, in what sense is it a facade?)
Anyway, you are presuming a cultivated facade, and then wondering how this supposedly cultivated facade is important.
Why you think it’s important is also left unsaid; maybe it’s not that important.
(Surely not everything anyone does at any given time is not because it’s “important”)
This guy is reminding me weirdly of Gustav Graves, the bad guy in one of the Bond films. He was a showoff but also a poseur at everything, too, and his space ambitions turned out to be a cover to build a kill sat for North Korea.
John Morales @39
Did Sam Bankman-Fried represent himself as an elite player or did he just like to play video games a lot? If the former why didn’t you lead with that and establish relevance?
From the article in the OP:
“Did Sam Bankman-Fried represent himself as an elite player or did he just like to play video games a lot?”
It was featured in the news, and mattered no less to people with your degree of acumen, Hemidactylus.
“Recently, Musk attracted the suspicions of gamers again…”
FFS.
You are evidently getting your opinions from others.
Anyway.
You asked, I answered, now you want to argue.
I mean, I sure can. But you are the driving force for that.
Look: when I quote something specific, and then I opine on that specific quotation, and then I adduce a supporting citation, then to what I refer should not be a mystery to anyone.
Tell you what: gimme the excluded middle if you can find one: either you are so clueless you didn’t actually get I retorted to what I quoted, or you are so clueless you im;gined you could bluster your way out of the implications, O half-fingered one.
Classic Morales.
From your beloved link:
Oh my, he tried to win a video game. Is that your evidence? I usually tried to win when I played video games too.
This link from your article says he’s an avid player and was insulted by Musk and AOC for lacking stature at some game.
See: https://www.businessinsider.com/sbf-not-play-video-games-league-of-legends-ftx-bail-2023-3
I was avid about an old Madden football game on Nintendo I guess. Not world ranked though. I’m tired of doing your work for you John especially while hitting these dead ends.
Maybe Bankman-Fried claimed elite gaming status somewhere but you did not establish that and I did not follow his story enough to know one way or the other.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avid
beloved!
You truly are a dolt.
No.
Another billionaire makes a media point about video gaming.
Again: That you see no significance whatsoever in that little detail about certain billionaires’ public presentation, given your ostensible question (“Why is coming across as gaming elite so important to his cultivated facade?”) is informative.
Point is, the article is there.
Mainstream.
(You don’t think billionaires can pay to massage their media profile?)
—
What sort of idiot needs to guess about whether or not they were avid about some old game somewhere?
(Your type!)
If you exercised those alleged word-chopping abilities on this thread, John, you would note the actual issue contained here:
Your choppers have grown dull and rusty. Where was elite status claimed? The onus is on you, not me. Insults don’t extricate you from that. Again this whole subthread has been a raw red herring without proper preparation. Mustard sauce would be nice.
Morales trolling is becoming increasingly unhinged. :-\
(sigh)
So.
Here it is, PZ.
You know the dynamic.
Tell me to go away, if that’s what it takes.
—
Point being, it is not I who needles.
I am the one who responds.
(tm was my (self-appointed) sifu)
Hemidactylus, I am under explicit instructions to not have fun with the likes of you, nor to employ pedantry to mock you. I can but respond to the actual semantics and intimations.
(Be aware it shows the extent of your cowardice that you don’t care about such strictures, so you can attempt to goad me to your heart’s content. Doesn’t work on me, but I can see your effort)
So in short summary, instead of showing where “Bankman-Fried claimed elite gaming status” someone resorted to calling me a dolt AND idiot…ok. I mean maybe linking and quoting an article where Bankman-Fried did something equivalent to “… attract(ing) the suspicions of gamers again after revealing himself to be a top player of Path of Exile 2…” per article in OP would have been preferable on my part. YMMV. Oh wait, does that mean I wouldn’t know what would be preferable on my part, because of such wording?
@25, & 2 . Hemidactylus : “After watching StevoR’s video, why is Perez without a spot while Stroll remains?”
Or Danny Ric or Colapinto or even Valteri Bottas to name a few others.
In F1 so much depedns upon the car you dribve and how good -or otherwise it is. Stroll’s car was alot better than most of those mentioned for most of the series. When you compare him to his teamate -admittedly Alonos is oine of the f1’s alltime gretas but still, well,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Formula_One_World_Championship#World_Drivers'_Championship_standings
Alonso 9th 70 points vs Stroll 13th 24 points.. Big gaps inresulst and performances there.
Yeah, Lando Norris theteam leader who did bottle it quite a lot over the year esp inthesecond haldf of the season. Aussie Oscar injust his second year inthe sport managed two race wins and learntand improved a lot froman already impressie debut season. Ok , biased here but still. .
Yes. Jos Verstappen from 1994 till 2003.
Big fan of tartare sauce ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartar_sauce ) on fish myself..
Or soy sauce on sushi and a few other things like Kecap Manis and some otherAsian fish sauces..
I really shouldn’t have been the one tasked (by myself) with hunting this trivial tidbit down. I guess being called names is a motivator of sorts. Grrrr!
https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/does-sam-bankman-fried-play-league-legends-former-ftx-ceo-spotted-playing-popular-game
I now know just a little bit more than I cared to about SBF’s self-evaluation of video game status. Seems much humbler than Musk’s self-evaluation, but being a dolt and idiot I guess my opinion matters not at all about that.
Too many people are fooled, I’m afraid.
FWIW & tangetial but : Yes Maxés dad raced in F1 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos_Verstappen
Plus yes please, please please, let’s have a compeditive season ion F1 where Max doesnt just have a dominat car and useless tamte yet again this year.
^ Teamnate
“Look what you made me do!” <== The classic excuse of an abuser.
You imagine answering a question directly addressed to me constitutes abuse, BB?
(You really are reaching to try to abuse me, ain’tcha)
To clarify for you: [I can if you insist, but] ≠ [Look what you made me do!]
(Misrepresenting what I convey is your own modus, Beebee)
John Morales @59
You followed my asking “Why is coming across as gaming elite so important to his cultivated facade?” per Musk with a link about SBF that did no work toward making any point you may have attempted to assert. I then showed by quoting from that link that it was not doing any relevant work. SBF was an avid gamer at best not evidenced as asserting elite status. In your inept followup which displayed an overweening arrogance you resorted to calling me a dolt and idiot. You go on to say stuff about cowardice in another post, yet ironically have failed to followup to my @54 which showed, relevant to my asking you about claiming elite gaming status, that SBF had said in relation to League of Legends: “I know I’ve said its name enough to imply I’m good at it, but I’m really not. It’s actually embarrassing how little I’ve grown at it.”
That in itself blows your ineffective bluster on this subthread out of the water. I guess it would be beneath you to apologize for the idiot, dolt, and cowardice comments, because your overweening arrogance.
I’m warming to Bekenstein Bound‘s @58.
Warm away.
Language games.
Were my “bluster” “ineffective”, it need not be blown “out of the water”.
—
And here we are.
Go on and evade what I put forward in @54 with your silly word games, since that is all you’ve got. So sad for you…not!
Um, I’m supposed to be the one who seems to be needling.
Yet. I keep being goaded.
I think anyone who is not an idiot can see I am being goaded.
—
It’s personal for these people. Tall poppy syndrome.
My alleged, um, “overweening arrogance”.
(What it is I supposedly arrogate is left unstated :) )
John Morales @35
From Hemidactylus @54:
https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/does-sam-bankman-fried-play-league-legends-former-ftx-ceo-spotted-playing-popular-game
Hemidactylus:
You have missed the significance.
Would he (Musk) be in this very position without X (ex-Twitter)? Doubtful.
Is he far richer now than then, and is he now in a position to do some more regulatory capture? For fucking sure.
—
See, you and your ilk strive to try to diss me because of my perceived arrogance, and so the actual points I make are ignored.
Ah well. So it goes.
Oh, right.
At the risk of being called even more “arrogant” and insinuations of abusiveness, let me explain this:
That is a rhetorical technique; that is, a rhetorical question answered with a corresponding rhetorical question. Those with some nous will see the implied answer. You do not see it.
Anyway.
Point being, the point had zero to do with gaming, and all to do with image.
(Whooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh!)
John Morales
Squirm away with more self-serving wordplay. If you can’t state openly what you supposedly meant at the time (in your@35) , it didn’t happen. After the fact retrospectives are such obvious bullshit. All you’re doing is lovingly admiring your reflection in the mirror as the smartest guy in the room instead of the necessary self-awareness that might clue you in on what so many others here actually see (eg- silly and pathetic pedantry).
And that he’s the richest person on the list of rich persons.
Yes, John, we know #QElon is rich. Why is that fact so important that you feel you have to point it out almost every fucking time anyone criticizes #QElon?
You may want to take a closer look at this obsessive fixation of yours…
“Squirm away with more self-serving wordplay.”
Mmmhmm.
Such acumen!
“You may want to take a closer look at this obsessive fixation of yours…”
I might, might I?
Tell me more.
What is this alleged fixation of mine?
Go on. Tell me.
(Relax. I am not allowed to have fun with you thereby)
Tell me more about my alleged feelings.
(I do like me my fanfic)
At the risk of seeming abusive to some, here is a direct reply to a direct question.
The specific case at hand is the claim “The only thing exceptional about him is his X.”
I did not dispute his X, I merely noted that there was also a Y.
(A verifiable claim)
Why would I correct an error?
A totally mysterious action, to some people.
Somehow bad, to point out that a claim is verifiably false.
(So, it has come to this! ;) )
BTW, my #31 still stands unchallenged, personal animus aside.
(Another verifiable fact)
Is it not notable to you how you mob attack the person, not the claims?
@ Morales
It’s not “the person” you dolt, it’s the behaviour.
And your endless reliance on the ludicrous idea of a meritocracy: “You dare criticise mighty Elon?! But he is extraspecially super duper rich therefore your criticism fails!”.
(You also seem to have a weird fixation on the net worth of Taylor Swift, dude, just sayin’.)
“And your endless reliance on the ludicrous idea of a meritocracy: “You dare criticise mighty Elon?! But he is extraspecially super duper rich therefore your criticism fails!”.”
That’s your imaginary caricature of me, not me.
Do you not find it notable you must always make up shit I’ve supposedly claimed in order for you to try to diss me? I notice, and I reckon others might, too.
Here, for you:
The specific case at hand is the claim “The only thing exceptional about him is his X.”
I did not dispute his X, I merely noted that there was also a Y.
Nothing whatsoever about daring to criticise, everything to do with the fact that given Y, the cardinality of exceptional things exceeds one.
(I personally don’t think X applies, however)
John Morales
Have you ever done any serious soul searchin’ on why you tend to accumulate detractors? Maybe it isn’t them, but you?
And who cares you had a “sifu” back in some illusory golden age? Seems a weird thing to bring up, like others are supposed to be attuned to your implicit monologue. That’s the crux right there. Inside jokes only you find apt.
It’s pretty obvious, no? You can’t cope with competence.
Nope. In your very own words, I accumulate detractors.
You know, you could stop detracting any time.
You really are very slow.
I care. I said so!
“Inside jokes only you find apt.”
Oh dear.
You’d better do some detracting, then. :)
So, some soul-searching: Is it a coterie, or is it a gaggle of detractors?
(A bevy, maybe? Not really that many whose egos get bruised by my crudity)
[btw, the nym was ‘truth machine’, tm is my own abbreviation]
Here, let me put it bluntly: You fear you’re inferior. You’d much rather think of yourself as superior. So you put on airs of being superior, then rub that in everyone else’s faces, and because of your insecurities you have an immediate, strong, hostile reaction to any criticism. Your greatest fear is being proven wrong about something in front of this particular crowd.
One coping mechanism you, Trump, and your average six-year-old have in common is to invent derogatory nicknames for your most persistent critics, then use those when responding to the criticism.
Turns out this sort of blustery bullying pattern of behavior turns most people off, even those who’d otherwise be inclined to sympathize regarding your underlying fears and self-doubt.
Part of the root of the problem is your underlying belief in meritocracy, and thus that the greatest possible sin would be to not measure up; especially to be publicly exposed as not measuring up. The same thing that causes your misplaced trust in Musk, Altman, and various other broligarchs who come up for criticism regularly hereabouts.
Part of that I in turn blame on the way boys are raised in most modern societies, with a hyper-competitive winner-take-all mindset. This does them, and ultimately everyone, a disservice. The other thread mentioned how girls’ group endeavors at some school routinely succeed in accomplishing their goals while boys’ ones (and, I suppose, mixed ones as well, though it didn’t say) get mired in endless bikeshedding as they all jockey to have “their” pet idea/suggestion/alternative get agreed upon. Selfish individuals beat altruistic individuals in groups; altruistic groups beat selfish groups. The girls’ groups were altruistic, the boys’ groups selfish. Boys are thereby being raised to win their battles and lose their wars.
@81:
Mmmhmm.
“because your overweening arrogance.” (Hemidactylus @61)
(I arrogantly feel inferior!)
Mmmhhmmmm…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_essentialism
(sigh)
So I don’t endeavour to condescend (that is, descend to your level).
(You see, the map ain’t the territory)
[quietude?]
“an overweening arrogance”
vs
“your underlying fears and self-doubt”
(Sure pinned me down!)
It’s not gender essentialism, it’s observation. The differences are presumably down to sexist socialization, not inherent gender differences.
(The rest of these latest babblings need not be dignified with a response.)
It’s not gender essentialism, it’s observation.
(sigh)
Right? X and Y.
Different genders, different essences.
As for observation, it’s your own personal interpretation of something.
Here, for you: https://cla.umn.edu/psychology/news-events/story/syed-acronym-weird
One more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization
This was observational data, posted originally by someone else in another thread. I just supplied a non-gender-essentialist explanation for these data (surprise surprise, systemic sexism impacting child-rearing). And you respond by doubling down on accusing me of being a gender essentialist?
That’s a fairly severe error even for you.
Nope. That was interpretation, not a primary source, and cherry-picked.
Look: everyone can read our exchanges.
Here, for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization#Hasty_generalization
Wow! You don’t even get the meta, do ya?
I am talking about the claim at hand: girls X, boys Y.
Not about you being something or other; your claim.
(You are not your claim, and I don’t make such egregious category errors)
[also, you do get this is the Elon Musk thread, no? Not that other one about gender ratios]
I never claimed “girls X, boys Y”. I claimed that an observation had been made that the girls at a particular school X, and the boys at that particular school Y. And I gave a non-essentialist explanation for that observation.
The first time you accused me of gender essentialism may have been an honest mistake. This time it was an out-and-out lie. And it’s not the first instance of likely-to-clear-cut bad faith on your part, just the most recent and perhaps also the clearest-cut.
I haven’t accused you of gender essentialism, so there can be no ‘first time’.
You: “The girls’ groups were altruistic, the boys’ groups selfish.”
Your claim is essentialist, and finding solace in the concept that groups aren’t individuals is pointless, since you’ve gendered the groups themselves.
(Already told you, I don’t make such basic category errors)
Let me rephrase in, um, Pascal; it’s much easier to see the assertion’s meaning.
function TGroup.Behavior: string;
begin
case Gender of
girls: Result := 'altruistic';
boys: Result := 'selfish';
else
Result := 'unknown';
end;
end;
Yes you did, liar, in #83.
Until you are willing to engage in good faith this discussion cannot be productive; therefore: Go away.