OceanGate is hiring!
If you’ve played video games on a console, then you are ready to “operate complex systems.”
It’s not clear if this ad was posted before or after the spectacular implosion of their submersible, but at any rate, I think this company is doomed and everyone employed there should be getting out fast.
Isn’t the CEO slot open? #opportunity
PS – I have my own wrench
And a few other tools.
Is life insurance part of the benefits package?
Only hiring subhumans presumably.
I wouldn’t apply for a job with a company that all by itself has chosen to add -gate to its name.
I should apply: all those hours of playing Subnautica have probably left me overqualified!
I’m amazed that you connected to the site. Since the mess started, been getting Cloudflare SSL errors.
Maybe they’re being flooded with applicants for a newly opened pilot’s position.
Still, why waste time applying for a job with a company that’s about to be sued into the phantom zone? Two dead billionaires means a veritable army of lawyers about to tear that shambles of a company apart. The waiver be damned, as for one thing, one can sue a ham sandwich, for another, the wealthy can litigate for eternity and simply write it off unnoticed. And worse, wealthy estates are effectively immortal.
@2 — You might have the wrench, but the 17 bolts are on the outside.
It should be noted the ‘game console’ thing is being misrepresented. It is primarily the game controller, the hand-held part. That is one of the most stress-tested and reliable parts of any gaming system out there.
The military use them all the time for drone controls, telescope-sightings, and more. They are reliable, easily swapped if one does happen to break, and extremely familiar to the soldiers that are using them.
The box it is connected to is no less reliable than any other microchip based computer. Probably more reliable than your phone or tablet, since it has to put up with the gaming non-stop with error handling tolerances beyond “just reboot the dang thing”. Game consoles that need to be reset regularly don’t last long on the market, since a crash can cost a player a lot of valued ‘experience’ (points, treasures, etc).
Game controller and reliable in the same sentence? I had to replace the joysticks in my wife’s Switch twice before she died.
As for the military using game controllers, no. We used controllers similar to game controllers, but they were not a $30 Logitech controller that was introduced in 2014, they were designed to be weather proof, reliable and rugged.
When a plain game controller was suggested for control of a device we were testing, the engineering team laughed and one senior member explained the actual, real world requirements for such a unicorn to be accepted for use.
Some of the Ukrainian drone operators should take over after the war, and make it a remote control business (i.e. from the surface).
Hard Pass.
YES! I do occasionally get the death wish.
Um. Not only no, but FUCK NO.
Do you have to be able to work well under pressure? Sorry I couldn’t help myself.
So when something at these pressures collapses, the water jets towards the center from all directions. All that momentum inwards creates a huge pressure peak at the center far larger than the original pressure, The water is heated past boiling by the compression and a fraction of a second later goes flying outward until the net pressure is negative and the water is accelerated inward again. The bubble of pressure reverberates for some time, gradually radiating energy.
The energy is depthgwater density*sub volume, which if 4000m depth and 10m^3 sub volume is about 400MJ or about 100kg of TNT equivalent.
PZ had made a comment about “radio message,” which doesn’t work as water shorts out the radio waves. However, they had an acoustic modem which is a sonar-like radio that mixes the audio with an ultrasonic pulse, shifting the frequency in to many kHz and away from all the ocean noise. This is then received by a sonar head and demodulated to recover the voice signal.
They apparently also had acoustic location capsule attached to the sub that should have responded to surface pings and allowed them to locate the sub. The fact that that stopped working suggested a really violent event. Dr. Ballard said they had dropped their weights which suggests they had signs things weren’t going well.
Does it have the same retirement plan as Heaven’s Gate? Too soon?
I’m going to be naughty here:
Can we hope it’s because the Zuckerberg/Musk cage match is going to take place on the next submersible to go out?
With Q-Anon Betty and Veronica…er…MTG and Boebert as the undercard?
@19- rrhain
If Musk was in charge of engineering the submersible, it would not implode. I’ll give him that. It might even do cool acrobatics after resurfacing and land on a platform.
I’d put Gates and Torvalds on the undercard. Torvalds has a notorious ugly temper. Gates wouldn’t stand a chance. He would get rolled into the next kernel release after much shouting at developers. And Torvalds’ opinion on NVIDIA was priceless and a taste of the cage match against Gates:
Torvalds is one high falutin’ techie I don’t despise despite any warts. All hail the penguin!
I miss MTV’s Celebrity Deathmatch. Torvalds would be too arcane a reference for that.
For MTG v Greene we need only watch CSPAN. Who would have thought Greene the saner sellout to the GOP establishment? Purges are coming perhaps…
BTW I’ve lost my Linux chops and gotten soft with iOS which is fine. Been years. Thinking of setting up a Pi.
hemidactylus@20–
I would put Musk (or to be more accurate the engineering team he would hire) well above what seems to have been going on at OceanGate, and I’m not denying the notable achievements under his leadership, but it’s not like his track record is as good as all that. He continues to overpromise on autonomous driving because it suits Tesla’s marketing; his recent Starship X launch ended in completely avoidable disaster that bypassed usual safety rules but he painted as a success; and to be right on topic, he already built a submersible that was completely and highly predictably unfit for purpose and then abused anyone who pointed this out.
@7–
Waivers can fail as a defence if either (1) the signatories were not adequately informed of the risks, or (2) there was negligence involved. Most indemnity waivers are created for the purpose of making people think they can’t sue. And reached the stage of seeing a waiver as a sign that the company/provider can’t be trusted, especially when they contain clauses about not being liable under any circumstances. (Not the same as consent forms, btw.)
chrislawson, given Rush’s public statements, as well as the company’s prior statements, criminal negligence may well be their next legal obstacle.
But, the poorest of the two wealthy individuals had liquid assets that were 10 times the company’s total assets. So, the estate and family has more than an ample enough amount of resources to forum shop and engage in litigation that’ll be epic and Herculean for the company to defend against.
And considering one reality, things look dire for the company, as if sued in the US, here, one can sue a ham sandwich.
That said, if I saw such a waiver document, despite walking with a cane, they’d see me making a world record 100 meter sprint to the parking lot.
Meanwhile, it’s official. The Russian Civil War has begun.
Ideally, the winner will be Ukraine, with the Russian troops turning on each other or abandoning their positions to go home. How can they possibly believe it’s worth risking their lives in Ukraine when their own country is descending into utter chaos?
Rostov is the most important logistics hub for the Russian army all across southern Ukraine, and Prigozhin, the man Putin just accused of committing treason, is in full control of it, holding more than half the entire Russian army in Ukraine to ransom while he foments rebellion in their ranks by claiming the country was deceived into an unnecessary war by the Russian generals.
tacitus: meanwhile, you are out of topic.
Try the endless thread, perhaps — it’s on the sidebar, just for this sort of posts.
No, it isn’t, and no, it has not.
Bit of theatre, sure.
Mutiny, probably. Though not by regular forces.
Civil war? Nah. Not yet, and most fucking certainly not officially.
How DO you officially start a civil war exactly? Asking for a friend.
Signed: survivor of Yugoslavian civil war
@ Morales
I’m amused your latest shtick is scolding others for off topic comments. Considering you have personally indulged in 100+ comment off topic diversions in other threads.
I guess putting [OT] at the top makes all the difference, lol.
Take it to the Endless Thread, jo1storm.
This is supposed to be a thread about OceanGate.
Silentbob, you trying to be pestiferous is rather adorable.
Take it to the Endless Thread, this is supposed to be a thread about OceanGate.
Answer the question John, and Iwill take it there.
[I know, BobChatter, you imagine you’ve my nemesis.
I imagine you’ve a bottom-feeder, feeding of what comes off my bottom]
<snicker>
Such grandiosity!
Take it there or not, post all you want about it here, jo.
(heh)
You know John, we are both well aware that you have written something very dumb. Indefensibly idiotic and I have absolutely no tolerance for that sort of bullshit.
There is no way to be officially in the state of civil war. It’s always either a mutiny or rebellion or secession or some similar word used to describe it. You don’t officially declare the state of civil war. It is called civil war either after it is already over or by external actors, mostly by foreign journalists and politicians. Nobody currently participating in the civil war will call it civil war, because they don’t consider other side in the conflict soldiers but instead consider them terrorists, or secessionists or rebels. And there is nowhere in the definition of civil war how big of a “mutiny” something has to be before it can be declared a civil war.
Back on topic, I am certain that OceanGate offers great health insurance and benefits while absolutely knowing that their luckless employee is never going to use it.
Hard pass. I’ve spent way too many years already working for employers who were trying to get me killed.
jo1storm, I see you did not take it to the out-of-topic thread specifically set for out-of-topic stuff.
But I am duly amused, so:
Tacitus: “Meanwhile, it’s official. The Russian Civil War has begun.”
You: “There is no way to be officially in the state of civil war. ”
Whyever you imagine you’re arguing with me rather than with tacitus is probably best left to a psychologist to fathom.
It takes a particularly idiotic person to imagine that the CEO of OceanGate absolutely knew he would die on that, the 14th trip of the Titan to the Titanic.
But you meet the criterion, jo.
I don’t know if there’s a Russian Civil War, but stuff has been heating up here.
Because you are the one who claims it has NOT began. And asks for it to be made official without telling what makes it official. Well, there you go: tacitus has made it official by being the external actor who claimed it has began. What do you say to that?
I just told you how it is made official. Any fucking mutiny can be called a civil war in hindsight. That’s how civil war looks at beginning stage.
Hindsight is 20/20, isn’t it? It’s not the CEO who published that job ad. It was the CEO who decided to save money on safety, though.
I think the correct job title is
“Submersible Pilot/Orca feeder”
@20 hemidactylus
Sure, because Musk engineers are so much better at creating things that don’t implode. Idiot would probably have demanded they build a sub inside a sub, the first layer of which was in a vacuum, then spent 10 years trying to figure out why this configuration both kept imploding, but also, for some reason wouldn’t move in water – a la his weird ass, “If we make a subway tube that is in a vacuum wouldn’t the lack of air make things go faster?”, madness. It would also probably trade a game controller for an AI driver that randomly saw imaginary whales, and tried to rapidly surface and/or dive to “escape them”, or some madness. Oh, and since part of his thinking is exactly the same as these clowns, i.e., “Why do we need a view port that is rated for the depth we will be operating at?”, vs., “Why would we need a launch pad with any of the safety shit that NASA actually uses to prevent flames, or debris, from bouncing back to hit our rocket, that is just wasting time and money, not a real safety issue?”….
No, I think the Elongated Muskrat would do at least as well/poorly as these clowns, depending on your viewpoint, and end up, ironically, declaring the first failed result, “A success that went exactly as expected.” lol
Wait now we’re doubting whether you can move a train faster in a vacuum? The answer is very obviously yes. The problem is is economics, not physics.
This idea prevalent here that SpaceX is somehow a failure at rocketry faces the tiny problem of explaining how it is that they have the best safety record in rocketry. The active version of the Falcon 9 hasn’t failed a single launch despite quite frequent launches.
Musk being a fascist asshole doesn’t mean physics changes to prove him wrong.
Look, I am not saying the “ideas” the engineers involved in Musk’s projects have are bad, just that we see the same stupid BS from him as we did with the sub. The engineer that worked on the things bloody view port explicitly told them, “Its not rated for what you want to do.”, so he was fired for saying it. Even if moving something through a tube with low pressure/vacuum is viable, they can’t seem to get it to bloody work, and he has admitted that almost all the pet projects he has pushed are to make money short term, so he can use that for insane bullshit in the future. Same with SpaceX – Musk himself, it has been suggested, was the one responsible for telling them, “Yeah, those extra safety measures for making sure we don’t damage either the launch pad, or the rocket, on take off… We don’t need them.”
It doesn’t matter if 90% of your design is sound and you have, generally, a better track record than someone else if you screw up the other 10% and it finally catches up with you, because you where cheap, or cut corners, or fired the guy telling you it was dangerous to do it.
Some people haven’t learned yet that certain commenters are best left ignored.
An imploding submersible will do the same to the supply of potential pilots, I suspect.
Oh, a small home demo on implosion:
https://youtu.be/8tW4zfTeJqM?t=395
Shut the fuck up, Johnny.
Kitty:
<looks around>
(Where’s Johnny?)
For what it’s worth and it might be the beer talking but Kagehi pushed back on me about my comments on Musk and I’m totally fine with that. Kagehi made good points critical of Musk. I didn’t take that personally. I’m not singling out Kagehi but pointing toward some recent issues here having nothing to do with Kagehi and I. So yeah. No judgment.
I’m fine with John Morales pushing back on me. I don’t think we’ve gotten too interpersonal. But others get rubbed the wrong way and that’s an important thing to think about maybe John.
I know of one person here who I have lost my cool with recently (a rare event) and he hasn’t yet swooped in to assert his superiority (not John). We all have our thresholds. Mine is still a work in progress.
hemidactylus, relax. It’s not at all personal for me.
I do get that it’s personal for others, but then, I can’t change that.
This is nothing. I used to have like a dozen or more trying to dogpile me, back in the day. For days on end. About as fruitful as the current efforts, of course.
Let me guess: my sifu.
@49- John Morales
I’m not great at it myself but maybe work on your people skills (annoying Scottish high-rising intonation making a statement sound like a question intended).
Not sure what sifu is but no.
I have worked on my people skills; thing is, it makes zero difference, because it’s what I say that bothers them, not how I say it, hemidactylus.
PS https://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asifu
(was known as truth machine, back in the day)
@51- John Morales
Well you aren’t upsetting me at all. I have no idea who your teacher, master, or tutor is, but if this person I’m thinking of swoops in again obnoxiously I will try to make it known in a not too confrontational way.
Or is sifu a synonym for pesky gadfly meaning you self-identifying? I thought it a mentor…
hemidactylus, why so coy? What’s the nym?
PS I helpfully provided you to a link asking Google for its definition.
How you still remain confused @53 has more than one possible speculative answer; perhaps you are asking what I meant by that.
If so, I here elaborate, beginning with…
Well, here’s the thing: I’ve seen any number of kungfu movies where the eager beaver would-bes see the Sifu doing his thing, quite nonchalantly.
At some point, he made some aside about me improving my technique, and I joked back “Sifu! Sifu!”. See, that’s what the aspirants did when they postrated themselves before the Master. Especially when the Master returns after a lengthy absence.
I noted that at the time, he acknowledged it, and we haven’t interacted since.
No need.
The Tao and all that. All a bit of a joke, really.
Not a shibboleth or anything like that.
Nothing explicit.
PS or it could be apophenia, of course. :)
@54- John Morales
Then you already know who it is perhaps. I’m not looking for a confrontation. But if they shit on anyone here again…I will merely point it out.
Indeed. And perhaps I do not.
“Let me guess: my sifu.”, I wrote @49.
Quite clearly, it was (and is) a guess; I cannot be certain.
I cannot be certain, so @54 I wrote “hemidactylus, why so coy? What’s the nym?”
So I try my darnest to make you get it. I think you have got it.
And now, you write “Then you already know who it is perhaps.”
But fair enough.
The name is not to be named, for what to you no doubt seems like a wise reason.
—
…
I rather hope that after reading that you’re not thinking along the lines of “what a dolt! Clearly I was acknowledging his guess, and he missed that”.
FWIW in case folks are interested, Scott Manley has a good if 2 hours long discussion of the imploded unsafe sub here on his youtube channel.
StevoR, if it’s not a spoiler, does he address why both the CEO and the lifetime expert (not just the rest of the people in the sub) thought it was safe enough to proceed? I mean, I’m not going to wade through a good two hours to find out, it will take you but a moment to tell me.
@ ^
Here ya go bud. Here’s some non-2hr video content for you to feast on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/us/oceangate-titanic-missing-submersible.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrich_effect
If the nytimes link is paywalled try here:
https://archive.is/OPCHM
[OT + meta]
Silentbob, are you addressing me?
Because if so, be aware that I was asking StevoR about the good two hours of video content he spruiked for anyone interested, not for your opinion about other content. I’m perfectly capable of finding content, you know.
Anyway, since I’m interested in the specific issue about whether Scott addressed why both the CEO and the lifetime expert (not just the rest of the people in the sub) thought it was safe enough to proceed, and of course whether or how StevoR responds will be indicative of whether he watched all good two hours of it.
And since StevoR is ostensibly seeking to indulge those who are interested, I expressed my interest.
Care to adumbrate the message you intend to convey via your purported links to video content?
BTW, I don’t think a Wikipedia web page counts as video, but of course you are welcome to your own classification. Didn’t click on the NYT link, but it’s html.
(And I do love how you still — after lo these many counterexamples — imagine that for me it might pose some sort of problem accessing it. Mate!)
—
Anyway, I was making that request to StevoR, and I would have welcomed you fulfilling it — instead what I got was something you imagine is relevant to that.
(You failed, Bobquack)
—
In passing, what did you think of my technique with faunap, over in that other thread?
Can you see how I was probing with my initial two responses?
(I doubt it, but take another look. You never know)
@ 59. John Morales : Afraid I haven’t watched the entire video yet myself – just parts of of it because I’m a fan of Scott Manley’s and find he’s got got some good things to say and trust his expertise here albeit with rockets and spacecraft more usually than subs I’d have to finish watching the entire or at least more of this myself first, Apologies..
Also & tangential but via Space dot com :
Source : https://www.space.com/titan-submersible-tragedy-lessons-space-tourism
No worries, StevoR. Just checking.
So, basically, you don’t know what (if anything) Scott has to say about that.
Since I pretty much know all the other stuff (well, not what he thinks, but what there is) there’s not a lot of point for me to watch it if it’s not there, is there?
(Also, pointing me to even more opinion pieces is neither what I want nor what I asked for).
—
Basically, “I don’t know” would have sufficed.
PS. Listening to it now & will let you know if I hear him address that.