I don’t usually do that, but a group of our summer research students were getting together to go, so I tagged along. I also had just read this review, and I wanted to try and see it through those eyes.
There is a moment, in the film’s climactic fight scene, when each of the Ghostbusters have exhausted their weapons and had a turn at battling the ever encroaching hoard of ghosts. One of the Ghostbusters, played by Kate McKinnon, remembers her last resort. She whips two hidden guns out of her proton pack, licks the barrel, and, with the Ghostbusters theme song wailing, absolutely DESTROYS every evil thing on screen, in one of the most amazing 30 seconds… 60 seconds? Eternity? Longest moments of my life.
She isn’t a princess. She isn’t a prop. She isn’t a love interest. She is the main character, in a movie with no other “greater” male main characters. She’s being a bad ass action hero, saving the day not for the happy ending kiss, but for herself and her friends and the world. But most importantly… and this is so, so very, very incredibly important: You can’t see her boobs while she does it.
Wait, let me repeat this: she’s a main character, an action hero, AND there’s no sexy impossible back bending moves in the scene that show off a tight catsuit or cleavage or the silhouette of her toned butt. She is not leaping all over the screen just to fuel all the fanboy’s fantasies later at home. She is not wearing sexy make up and she does not even have long hair that blows in the wind, still curled, after she defeats the bad guys. Kate McKinnon’s character saves the world in a dirty, baggy MTA jumpsuit.
I have to say that on a second viewing, the plot looks worse — it’s kind of an arbitrary mess that throws up hordes of ghosts for the heroes to zap. But that review is exactly right about what makes the movie work — it treats women as people.
Now that’s going to color all the other superhero movies that are inevitably going to pour onto the screen over the next few years, and I hope studio executives are noticing. The new movie playing at my local theater now is Suicide Squad, which I have very little interest in seeing for a lot of reasons, including the terrible reviews, but now I’m wondering…is Harley Quinn a human being in the story?
She uses guns to “kill” “ghosts”? Are they using the right words?
If so, this is a comedy movie use of a mass shooting as a happy ending? I’m glad I wasn’t going to a comedy to get my mind off a recent loss of a loved one in a shooting spree.
davidnangle, the ‘guns’ are still proton lazers, because that’s what works against ghosts in that universe, but they are small and she is dual wielding and they *are* shaped like pistols. She also comes up with all sorts of other nifty gadgets that include grenades and a fist weapon.
Its moral to kill ghosts because, reasons. So genocide ’em all! Humans rule! Instead of trying to learn about ghosthood – blow ’em away! It’s what humans do when they encounter the unknown undead.
Er, ‘the story is terrible but the movie’s fine because it treats women like people’? Those are very low standards for a story-telling medium. Worse, I suspect that this may, for the most part, be the best one can hope for. You know, as an alternative to ditching Hollywood altogether.
Marcus Ranum,
This was sarcasm?
I have nothing I really want to do today, I think I’ll see it again, too.
AbFab is playing at the same cinema, maybe I’ll do a double feature.
Yeah, I was thinking about going to see it again too next week. And I never watch the same movie in cinema twice, I’m usually too cheap for that.
I don’t think they’re “killing” the ghosts so much as destroying the physical form they’ve taken in the mortal realm.
I really liked “Ghostbusters” and am planing to see it again. ^_^
Really? Can’t even do violence to malevolent spirits? That’s the thinking these days? Actual humans do not get killed by the heroes. They do get killed by the ghosts.
Get a grip. And maybe a sense of whimsy. And perhaps the humility to not get self-righteous about things based on very limited descriptions, but instead to see for yourself.
Yeah, let’s have a metaphysical discussion about ghosts, and what it means to “kill” them.
The notion of an afterlife in all of the Ghostbuster movies is an incoherent mish-mash contrived entirely to produce weird-looking special effects to be defeated by the heroes. It’s another aspect of the movies that utterly disintegrates if you look at it sideways.
It’s also a movie that has a giant ghost marching through New York smashing buildings and crushing cars…a typical summer superhero movie, in other words.
My sixteen yearold daughter has a) seen the movie twice so far and b) got the t-shirt:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/a6ea7552d93ab5e0643e799b6f4e688f/tumblr_oaiv9oXhCi1uwk8vqo1_500.jpg,the Holtzmann We Can Bust It one, for those of you sensibly not clicking ambiguous links. An amusing allusion to Rosie the Riveter in itself.
Having just come out of Suicide Squad, no, Harley Quinn isn’t really a human being. On the plus side, none of them are – they’re basically all weapon carrying cartoon ciphers with no more purpose and depth than required by plot beats.
From the reviews I’ve read of Suicide Squad, no, they don’t consider their women characters to be human beings.
From the comic book readers I’ve talked to, many of the things that make her character complex and interesting didn’t make it into the movie but she’s a significantly rounder character than Black Widow in her first couple of appearances.
Myers@10:
You made the common mistake of thinking the Ghostbusters movies are about ghosts. It’s really about a small team of outcasts and misfits using the tools of science to conquer both human and supernatural foes, and earn recognition and respect from normal people. Fans cite the chemistry between Egon/Ray/Winston/Peter or Abby/Erin/Patty/Julian as the main reason they love the series, not the ghosts. What, exactly, did Gozer do? Why does New York barely get touched in the movies, relative to disaster or superhero films? Rowan is even polite enough to clean up after himself.
Ghostbusters is better compared to Band of Brothers than Captain America.
I wasn’t being entirely sarcastic. If there were visible manifestations of ghosts, wouldn’t it be kind of important to study them and try to communicate with them, instead of blowing them away?
Marcus Ranum, yes. In the first movie they caught all of the ghosts and put them in the containment unit. This has the stated purpose of study when the unit is first mentioned, but this is never brought up again. In this one, they also have containment technology, but aren’t setting out to capture and study each individual ghost in the world when human beings are in danger.
This is probably going to sound petty next to some of the other concerns with the plot, but one thing that bothered me was how cookie-cutter the villain’s plan was. Rowan relies on two well-worn cliches in fantasy and science fiction; First, draw a giant geometric symbol over a city using mystic rites/technological devices. Then, use said ritual to open a portal between the living world and the underworld. I’m pretty sure the geometric city ritual thing was used in the Ghostbusters video game too, but the bad guy there drew an entire mandala instead of just an X.
emergence@#18:
Well, if the baddies weren’t generally really stupid, then it wouldn’t be possible to foil their plans in a mere 2hr.
If you’re asking the wrong questions if you want to know if Harley Quinn or the Joker are human beings. They’re one-dimensional psychopaths, by design and by demand.
Re 16:
What you ask @16 is exactly what Hein tried to advocate initially and was thwarted by the ghost aggression; resorting to defense that only appears to be attacks. Rowan activated all the spirits that were too resentful to “move on” so presented with Earth they tried to revenge themselves.
@16, Marcus Ranum:
“If there were visible manifestations of ghosts, wouldn’t it be kind of important to study them and try to communicate with them, instead of blowing them away?”
That was the original plan. The original goal was to communicate with the ghosts. You can even see this in the trailer when Erin tries to talk to the ghost. She then gets ectoplasm vomited all over her. Patty then sees a ghost in the subway…a ghost of a serial killer who had been executed…who then attacks. That’s when they realize that the ghosts are malevolent and need to come up with some sort of way to trap the ghosts (and thus, the proton packs). They then are confronted by a skeptic who baits Erin into opening the trap and the ghost kills the skeptic who possesses Abby who then tries to kill Erin.
Of course, the final confrontation is a direct attempt to take over the world.
Now, if a person doesn’t like that general plot (“We come in peace…shoot to kill”), then the movie won’t be very good.
But for me, I liked it better than the original. I don’t know if the intervening 30 years have made me a bit jaded for the original, and I still do like the original, but this one was better. As my friend pointed out afterward, it’s because they actually had character development in this movie. In the original, it was an excuse for Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd to screw around on film. Now, it’s entertaining. They’re good at what they do. But you can see that Sigourney Weaver is trying to keep up to the off-script antics Murray is doing. And she’s good enough of an actress that she can hold her own. But in the end, it’s mostly just them winging it.
In this one, they actually thought about what they were doing. Now, Melissa McCarthy is also known for her antics and I would love to see the outtakes of this film, but what made it to the final cut was actual characterization. We understand why Abby and Erin are the way they are, what their relationship is, and the foursome has a purpose other than “the joke needs four guys.”
The original GB is plot-driven. It’s all about this mystery of what is stirring up paranormal activity in NYC and what is in Dana’s refrigerator. The viewer knows as little as the GBs do—less, in fact, since Ray and Egon “know” stuff about ghosts and dish it as exposition as needed (largely in the jailhouse scene). In solving this mystery, the characters/actors show off their irreverence and sarcasm and humor.
The new GB is character driven. The plot is a bare-bones plot that has no mystery for the viewer (we are shown Rowan doing things, so we know more than the GB team). The story is about Abby and Erin and their redemption arc from emotionally abused childhood to vindicated adults. Patty and Holtzmann have character arcs as well, but their arcs aren’t the central focus (they are highly entertaining characters, though).
Two entirely different movies that share a name, a central concept, and the same number of main characters.
I liked that the villain of the piece (he releases the malevolent ghosts so they’ll destroy the world, Marcus,) is a nerd who never got over being bullied in his youth. The ghostbusters can totally sympathize–they were all nerds as well–but he’s too far gone in narcissistic bitterness to turn back from his dastardly plan. If he weren’t a ghost rustler, he’d fit right in on 4chan. I just wish the writers had made him an MRA. Though perhaps that wouldn’t have worked, as he’s too intelligent.
She has a *lathe* … a real one. (looked like a Southbend but didn’t get to see it very long and I was taken by surprise) and from some of the fittings on the proton packs and other toys, she was supposed to know how to use it.
I’m in love.
Yah, I know it was done by props and the looked like turned fittings were probably just molded plastic, But the character was supposed to be a real tool user and McKinnon did a good job, if like the movie generally more than a little over the top, of expressing the sense of identity one gets of the ability to *make*. It’s one of the things a lot in the maker/tech communities are trying to do — get young women into the mindset that techie/tool kind of stuff is good/fun. I much appreciated that about this movie.
Well done, Ghostbusters!
— TWZ
Please tell me this is just clumsy phrasing.
I still think the script writers should have tried just a bit harder.
Just as every film should have to pass the Bechtdel test, so every SF/fantasy filmTV series should have to pass the nerd teenager test:
A panel of well-educated tenagers searching for logical holes in the plot (and occasionally offering advice of how to patch those holes). Imagine what the final episode of Lost could have been if i t had been vetted this way…
OT: from film stars to shooting stars.
“Perseid Meteor Shower Peaks Aug. 11 and 12 with a Possible Strong Outburst!” http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2016/08/05/how_to_watch_the_2016_perseid_meteor_shower.html
Bring the popcorn! And possibly a blanket, the nights can get substantially colder than a movie theather.
I saw Suicide Squad last night, and no, it doesn’t do terribly well with its female characters. It’s extremely male-gazey, and nearly all the female characters — Harley Quinn, Katana, June Moone, Deadshot’s daughter — are defined primarily in terms of a relationship with a man. Even Enchantress, one of the most powerful beings in the world, on gaining her freedom immediately summons her brother, who’s stronger than her. The one exception is Amanda Waller, and she’s portrayed as a stone-cold bitch who’s willing to straight up kill her underlings like a villain.
The two women who get the most screen time are Harley and Enchantress, and they’re both best summarized as “Badass who’s sexy but crazy “. I’m considering Enchantress and her mortal host June as separate characters here — June is best summarized as “childlike and in need of protection”, which is basically how Zack Snyder productions seem to treat any woman who isn’t a badass.
I went and checked Rotten Tomatoes the other day, and the interesting thing about Suicide Squad is that while the critical reviews are awful, the opinions of people coming out of theatres is at like 75%.
Some of that is going to be fanboys, but not all of it. Probably better to reserve judgement and see for yourself.
Pretty much my exact problem with the movie. The original had a somewhat more coherent mythology, no doubt helped by Aykroyd being something of a woo scholar. Here, we get a villain who wants to unleash paranormal entities, and who becomes powerful enough to start destroying New York…somehow. My eyes wandered around the theater for much of the last twenty minutes of the film.