The logic of Ray Comfort

Atheists don't hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns because they don't exist. It is impossible to hate something that doesn't exist. Atheists hate god because he does exist.

Atheists don’t hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns because they don’t exist. It is impossible to hate something that doesn’t exist. Atheists hate god because he does exist.

A few thoughts on all the errors in this comment.

  • Maybe there are atheists who hate fairies, leprechauns, or unicorns.

  • According to the Bible, unicorns do or did exist. Are we allowed to hate them?

  • Wait, how can we hate a creature that farts rainbows? Maybe all atheists love unicorns!

  • Of course it is possible to hate something that does not exist. Hate is a subjective emotional feeling that you can apply to anything. You can hate orcs, or the Kree, or the way Mercury messes up your day when it goes retrograde, or Satan.

  • Can you love something that doesn’t exist? Ray Comfort loves a deity that doesn’t exist, so apparently it is possible to have strong emotional feelings for nonexistent entities.

  • Actually, most atheists don’t hate gods at all. We do hate the fact that con artists like Ray Comfort use religion to promote intolerance and ignorance, so it would be more accurate to say we hate religion (and not all atheists do that, either).

  • Hate is often too strong a word to use for the atheist attitude, anyway. I don’t hate Ray Comfort, but I do despise him.


  1. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Ray, where is your solid and conclusive physical, non-presuppositional, evidence that your deity isn’t imaginary, existing only in your delusional mind? I’ve been waiting at least 40 years to see such evidence. I doubt if you have any that fits my requirements, just more presuppositional bullshit.

  2. rietpluim says

    I am so glad somebody finally explained my point of view to me. At last I know what I’ve been thinking for the last 25 years. Thank you Mr Comfort!

  3. =8)-DX says

    No, no, no, unicorns eat rainbows and poop butterflies. But yeah – I guess Ray’s comment shows how he really thinks about atheists: it’s as if Ray had a friend called Fred, and he knows Fred and loves Fred and it does kind of feel a bit insulting to Fred when other people tell Ray: oh no I don’t believe your friend Fred even exists. I need to see some evidence that Fred exists they say. Well Ray feels Fred must be rather sad, not to mention insulted that people out there who don’t even know him have the nerve to call his existence into question. Ray really feels that it’s a pretty nasty and hateful thing to do to someone, to pretend you can’t see them, to act as if they don’t exist when they’re standing right there!

    Except Fred is invisible, intangible, incommunicable*, he’s the invisible-inked pigment of the imagination that doesn’t seem to show up however much light of different wavelengths or waves of different brainlengths you shine on him.

    (*Not to mention untastable and unsmellable, except on Sundays where Fred’s odour – that fading waft of lint, damp trouser and incest, I mean incense – seeps out of the local church with its doors flung open).

  4. gshelley says

    Some people have strong feelings about other fictional characters. I know people who hate several of the characters in Game of Thrones and actually enjoy the passages where they suffer.

  5. nelliebly says

    @5 gshelley

    Yes, that’s always confused me as well – don’t these people read fiction? Or if they do, do they read without ever being engaged by the characters? Sitting there sternly refusing to empathise with the plight of Veleteen Rabbit on the basis of his non-existance?

    Either option strikes me as rather sad.

  6. says

    Actually, the Bible does not mention unicorns. That’s an erroneous translation in the King James Version. From Wikipedia:

    “Re’em also called Reëm (Hebrew: רֶאֵם), is mentioned nine times in the Hebrew Bible (Job 39:9-10, Deuteronomy 33:17, Numbers 23:22 and 24:8; Psalms 22:21, 29:6 and 92:10; and Isaiah 34:7). It was first identified in modern times with the aurochs by Johann Ulrich Duerst who discovered it was based on the Akkadian cognate rimu, meaning Bos primigenius, the aurochs, progenitor of cattle.[1] This has been generally accepted,[2] as it is today even among religious scholars.[3] It has been translated in Christian Bibles as “oryx” and quite erroneously as “unicorn” in the Authorized King James Version Bible. Some Creationists believe it to be a triceratops,[4] while others believe it is a rhinoceros.”

  7. Saganite, a haunter of demons says

    Why would you hate orcs? They were enslaved and twisted. They can’t help it. :-(

    Ray Comfort seems to confuse granting a hypothetical for the sake of argument with belief: “If your god existed, Ray, he would be a monstrous, murderous dictator.”

  8. Rey Fox says

    No, no, Ray, we just SAID that we DON’T hate God because…okay, you’re obviously not listening so never mind.

  9. Alverant says

    Last time I checked fairies, leprechauns, and unicorns don’t
    * Have a history of killing lots of people for trivial “crimes”
    * Claim absolute moral authority
    * Demand worship
    * Have followers who committed barbaric acts of evil

  10. raven says

    Yeah, quite a lot of lies strung together.

    Ray Comfort: Atheists hate god because he does exist.

    1. Which gods? There are hundreds at least. Enough to make up your own pantheon. I find that Isis, Frigga, Bast, Gaia, Sophia, Estre, and Thor are worth remembering.

    2. We don’t hate the fundie xian Sky Monster god. Because he doesn’t exist. The modern American fundie version is a recent invention anyway, reflecting his creator’s minds. Although based on the OT Sky Monster god.

    3. We don’t much care for the fundie perversion of xianity though. The fundies own the Dark Side of our society. And they are real, cause huge damage, support xian terrorism, and occasionally threaten to kill some of us.

  11. raven says

    Ray Comfort is just reusing very old xian cliches and spreading some more hate around. It’s all they have.

    If Ray Comfort and the fundie xians really believed their gods existed, they wouldn’t have to lie all the time.

  12. Jackie the social justice WIZZARD!!! says

    I don’t hate God or Voldemort and for the same reason.
    If Comfort believed in God I doubt he’d shamelessly create a lucrative industry out of making his believers look like fools.The Bible specifies that each man work out his own salvation in fear and trembling. As lying is a sin and Comfort isn’t trembling over his, his faith must not be as strong as he claims.

  13. =8)-DX says

    @Jackie the social justice WIZZARD!!!’s #16

    As lying is a sin and Comfort isn’t trembling over his, his faith must not be as strong as he claims.

    Actually, that’s part of his shtick: the whole “If you’ve ever lied you’re a liar, if you’ve ever stolen you’re a thief” thing. He often repeats that he himself has lied and is a sinner, and sounds mighty trembly each time he expresses concerned about all the poor people going to hell. I’d say his faith is pretty much bulletproof, including that rock-hard bit concerning the appropriateness of making lots of money from his books and “ministry”.

  14. NYC atheist says

    @4 rietpluim

    Would you like to kiss my ass, so that I can then kiss Hank’s ass for you? Do you not WANT Hank’s million dollars?

    Also, the moon is made of green cheese.

  15. Lady Mondegreen says

    @holytape, in the unicorns’ defense, the flooffy kittens probably forced them to do those awful things.

  16. raven says

    Why do Ray Comfort and the fundie xians hate Zeus, Odin, Ahura Mazda, Marduk, Asherah, Oriris, Asclepius, and Mithras?

    They never call, never write, and destroyed most of their temples.

    Strangely enough, Asherah used to be married to their Sky Monster god. That god must not be very powerful though, because the xians and Jews took his wife away from him.

  17. says

    if i hate all of the gods does that mean all of the gods exist?

    i used to hate shredder from teenage mutant ninja turtles. does shredder exist too?

  18. Deacon Duncan says

    As an atheist, I feel the same way about fairies, leprechauns, and unicorns as I do about God. What exactly does that prove, Ray?

  19. =8)-DX says

    @Josef Mulroney #21
    Shredder. Of course he exists, I saw him on TV. But taking on TMNT is a complete own goal – the turtles hate anchovies and anchovies exist, QED!

  20. marcoli says

    Ray Comfort is so … lame and backwards (I wanted to say stupid, but that seemed too mean) that I do not even know where to begin. We do not hate god, the same way and for the same reason that we do not had fairies, etc. Anyway, the people above have done a find job in responding to this. Byeeee.

  21. Janine the Jackbooted Emotion Queen says

    Not sure how Ray Comfort knows just whom I do and do not hate.

  22. Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened says

    @ raven

    Why do Ray Comfort and the fundie xians hate Zeus, Odin, Ahura Mazda, Marduk, Asherah, Oriris, Asclepius, and Mithras?

    I did once respond to the statement “I just don’t understand why Atheists hate God” with “I don’t understand why you hate Zeus”. Confused the fuck out of him.

  23. slithey tove (twas brillig (stevem)) says

    So he is telling his ‘brethren acolytes’ that Atheists are wrong when they say they hate Fairies, Leprechauns, etc., cuz they don’t exist, but they really do hate Gawd cuz he DOES exist? Whoever, not even wrong, that Comfort is; he at least got half the message: it is impossible to love/hate something that does not exist. We just gotta get him to ackowledge the other half: Gawd does NOT exist either.

  24. UnknownEric the Apostate says

    So if I’m reading a book/watching a movie/playing a game, and think, “Wow, I really hate that character,” they suddenly spring to life? Shit, I better be more careful!

  25. says

    Fairies are fucking assholes and I hate them with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns. But I don’t believe in them.

    Cervantes @7 – The problem is for many fundamentalists the King James is the authoritative, God-inspired inerrant Bible. So if it says anything about unicorns, for them unicorns existed.

  26. says

    Oh, how I dislike the trope of atheists hating god, and even worse, the trope that atheists are angry with god. I don’t believe in gods, nor do I fear any god. I expect not being afraid of a god tends to freak theists out, so it gets dismissed with a “oh, you’re just angry with god!, yep, that’s it!”

  27. Deacon Duncan says

    One thing comes through loud and clear if you read the Old Testament: Jehovah sure does hate all those other gods!

  28. says

    The logistics of Ray Comfort is more like it. He’s trying to invent new ways of making false arguments without people noticing he’s incapable of making coherent arguments.

    Hate is often too strong a word to use for the atheist attitude, anyway.

    One can’t honestly claim the enemy is violent when they aren’t, and thus can’t incite hate and violence when there’s no reason to. It’s why religious hate against LGBTQ people failed, because the public saw that the accusations were false. Now the question is will they also see through the religious hate against atheists.

  29. Moggie says

    I think the most charitable thing you could say about Ray Comfort is that he’s not a deep thinker.

    UnknownEric the Apostate:

    So if I’m reading a book/watching a movie/playing a game, and think, “Wow, I really hate that character,” they suddenly spring to life? Shit, I better be more careful!

    With a little effort, you could turn that into an ontological argument for the existence of Sauron. Boy, would Anselm’s face turn red!

  30. anteprepro says

    Interesting. With this you can prove that the majority of villains in fiction are real. But none of the heroes are. Damn, hate is a powerful magic.

  31. phlo says

    What about an atheist in India who “hates” all the Hindu gods but has never even heard of Christianity?

  32. says

    As stupid as Comfort is, just keep in mind that “Dr” Kent Hovind is about to be turned loose on an unsuspecting internet…

  33. grumpyoldfart says

    There are nearly 2 billion Christians on the planet. I wouldn’t be surprised if 1.5 billion of them agree with Banana Man.

  34. says

    For some period in life (ca from ~15 till 25) I beliefed in some new age and mystical stuffs and parapsychology etc. but only as long as I thougth that there is actual evidence these things are real.

    But I have always been an atheist, I cannot say I ever honestly believed in the existence of any deities for one single minute. I thought about it, but I never believed.

    Untill I was 15 I did not know that some of my relatives – close relatives, with whom I was in contact – believe in God and attend church. Untill I was over 18 I did not know creationists still exist at all and untill I was over 30 I did not know how prevalent they are in some parts of the world. It was a nasty shock and it made me reconsider many things – including my own, always default, atheism.

    After a few years of rethinking I am still an atheist, now with some good arguments and strong reasoning behind it, and a few new convictions as well (like feminism and social justice, which I did not think about much prior to this.

    But at no point in my life did I “hate God” as real. I merely detest, dislike and perhaps you could say “hate” the character as he is described in the bible in the same way I detest other flat ot evil literary villains – like Voldemort or Sauron.

  35. kagekiri says

    To be fair, I’m an atheist and I do hate God, yahweh, Jesus, whatever, far more than any other shitty made up character in a book or legend.

    He’s obviously not real in the way Christians or the Bible claim, but he’s done plenty of measurable harm to me anyway as a mere falsely-believed-as-real fictional character. Hell, I’ve done harm in his name, and so have plenty of Christians, which makes his effects far more fucked up and relevant than most fictional assholes.

    To put it another way: I don’t hate fairies and leprechauns because any fleeting wrong belief I had in them didn’t nearly fucking kill me, hurt others through me, hurt me through others, and cause me regrets along with eating 20 years of my life looking for guidance and heavenly purpose that didn’t fucking exist.

    Similarly, belief in a stories of boogeyman doesn’t cause pogroms and genocide throughout history, reinforce the notion of slavery as acceptable, and motivate modern day purges of gay people or people of other religions.

    Also, unicorns are not the supposed driving motivation of a vile fucking religion that continues to preach (and practice) anti-humanism and impede social progress in the world.

    Don’t worry, Comfort, you shithead Christians of the worst sort do deserve the vast majority of the blame for all the shit you pull in the name of God, blame I share as a former Christian Creationist fuckhead.

    But fuck your God, too. Even outside the shit done in his name, He is a shitty fucking character doing horrible shit and fails to walk any of his bullshit talk throughout scripture, short of where he basically says he’s a jealous murderer who refuses accountability.

  36. marcus says

    I know, Right? Mercury went into retrograde today, again! How am I supposed to get anything done?!
    (I’ve stopped rolling my eyes when my co-worker points out that Mercury is in retrograde, I used to demure and try to introduce some rationality (not well received). Now I just join in!

  37. anteprepro says


    Proposition: Someone doesn’t believe in God.
    Fundie: Impossible, God is so obvious and undeniable, no one could possibly not believe that God exists!

    Proposition: Someone hates God.
    Fundie: Someone hates an entity that we persistently describe as purely good, all powerful, the creator of life and the universe, a loving entity that sacrificed Himself to save humankind? Sounds plausible.

    I suppose the excuse is that there is a Bible verse stating that the former proposition is false, because Bible Sez So, while the latter never results them thinking about the beliefs or reasoning behind “hatred”, but is rather waved away as a way Sinners Gonna Sin. But still, I do find it rather entertaining that they will abjectly deny the possibility that people simply don’t believe, but enthusiastically support the possibility that people “hate” God and see Him as evil.

  38. CJO, egregious by any standard says

    cervantes #7

    It’s not actually original to the KJV. The KJV translators used the Hebrew of the Masoretic text, but where a term was obscure to them. they consulted the ancient Greek translation (called the Septuagint) and the Latin Vulgate. The Greek translators are the ones who originated the translation of Re’em as monoceros, which was in late Greco-Roman belief some kind of exotic, possibly supernatural creature, but likely the identification ultimately came from travelers’ reports of the rhinoceros. This connection having been lost, the classic medieval picture of the unicorn is a result of fanciful speculation of what the “monoceros” looked like.

  39. Usernames! (ᵔᴥᵔ) says

    Dear Mr. Comfort:

    I stated that the Bible was written by Satan and surmised that you could not refute my claim. To date, you have not done so. May I now conclude that you concede my point, or do you need more time?

  40. Al Dente says

    I don’t hate gods (psst, Comfort, there’s more gods than your favorite deity). I do get angry about a lot of things done by various gods’ followers. I’m angry at people like Comfort who want to have mythology taught in schools in place of science. I’m angry that certain imams want “insulting the prophet” made an international crime. I’m angry that various churches like the Catholics and Mormons spend large amounts of money trying to deny rights to minorities. I’m angry that many church leaders are more interested in money and power than caring for people. I’m angry that a lot of church leaders are sexual predators and/or support sexual predators. But angry at gods? Why should I be angry at figments of other peoples’ imaginations?

  41. frankgturner says

    I don’t know about leprechauns but I have met some short Irish people. And I have seen photos of large rams whose horns dont split properly. Of course, I have tangible physical evidence for those things existing. Does Comfort want to pose some sort of physical tangible diety? (He probably thinks it is just Charlton Heston in a white toga).

  42. Bruce says

    Re #32, from Deacon Duncan: “One thing comes through loud and clear if you read the Old Testament: Jehovah sure does hate all those other gods!”
    Deacon Duncan, you just helped me to realize that Yahweh (the one true god when he isn’t being just part of Elohim), or Jehovah, the god of the bible, is a POLYtheist. I used to think god was an atheist, but now you and Ray Comfort have made it clear that he “knows” that other gods are real.
    [But I was sad to learn that the King James Version of the bible was not divinely inspired (from a Latin translation of things that weren’t in the original Greek). ]

  43. NYC atheist says

    @35 rietpluim

    If Wallace and Gromit’s findings don’t comport with the teachings of Hank, they’re obviously faulty. Maybe they interpreted it wrong because of their world view (shout out to Ham).

  44. John Horstman says

    If I *headdesk* enough, I will enter the embrace of sweet, sweet oblivion, and for that I thank Ray Comfort.

  45. PaulBC says

    Wait, are you telling me the whole thing isn’t an excuse for a thinly veiled homophobic message?

  46. rietpluim says

    Funny thing is, I’ve been an atheist for about 25 years, but only recently I started to hate this Jahweh. Thanks to the popular “what if you’re wrong” scenario. So what if I’m wrong, and I’m standing in front of His throne? I’d be pissed off big time!

  47. Lofty says

    Dear Ray, I don’t hate your fictional god, I hate what his deluded followers do to real people.

  48. gijoel says

    Why does Ray hate Darwin so much? If he’d just let evolution into his heart, it would heal so much of his pain. Darwin did after all go on a grueling two year voyage around the world for us. Ray should let go of his hate and realize that evolution had a purpose when died. Let go of your hate Ray, and let Darwin into your heart.

  49. says

    As stupid as Comfort is, just keep in mind that “Dr” Kent Hovind is about to be turned loose on an unsuspecting internet…

    In case people are wondering, Kent Hovind just had the latest charges in his ongoing battle with the IRS dismissed. He had been found guilty of contempt of court for attempting to thwart the IRS in they efforts to sell of the land they had seized from him, and was facing a retrial on mail fraud charges, but the IRS attorneys dropped those charges the morning the new trial was support to start (yesterday) and the judge overturned the related contempt conviction as a result.

    So, instead of facing another 1-2 years in jail, Kent Hovind, who was due for early release from his 10 year sentence before the latest round of charges happened, will likely be out of prison within a week or two.

    He still denies being a tax protester, despite not having filed a single tax return in over 30 years, and still denies he did anything wrong. If his son, Eric, has any sense, he won’t let his dad anywhere near his legally compliant (501c3) ministry, but I’m sure that won’t stop Kent wanting to make up for lost time.

    He does still face three years of court supervision, and he still owes over $3.3 million in fines and penalties to the IRS, so that might hamper him somewhat, and given his total denial of his crimes, I wouldn’t be surprised if he finds himself back in jail at some point.

  50. frankgturner says

    @gijoel # 57
    I don’t think he hates it so much as he makes money off of fighting it because gullible people follow that. If he could not make money off of it he might still believe it personally but would not build his career off of it.
    I think in many ways the Hovinds are the same way.

  51. F.O. says

    Every time I see Ray Comfort, I think that I have to actually *work* to pay rent.

  52. Atticus Dogsbody says

    I hate unicorns. They keep putting holes in the fly-screens. And the damned leprechauns get in the roof at night and have sex… I should get a cat.

  53. jetboy says

    Ray, I don’t “hate” “god.” I hate the willfully ignorant fundamentalist interpretation of “god.” I hate that there are legions of scared, easily swindled human beings making my life, and theirs, absolutely miserable. I hate the idea that the most prevalent understanding of “god” is taken from a time in history where people had barely enough sense to fire pottery and smelt tin. I hate the fact that that one dumb book, one collection of dreary Middle Eastern fairy tales, is adapted desperately and incomprehensibly to a world that might as well have been a mythical Paradise to the authors of such tales. I hate watching good people that I love deeply and truly throw all their time away in chasing these bullshit stories, crusading where they could be exploring, being awestruck or made curious by the unknown instead of shaking their fists at it or lying about its origins. You’ll never understand that; either because you’re legitimately stupid, in a very specific and myopic fashion, or because you’re deliberately lying, and don’t want anyone else to move outside the lies. You’re a sad little man, Ray, and for that, I hate what your faith has done, even what it has done to you and everyone like you. The only saving you’ll get is that when you die, you will never know whether you did right or wrong. You’ll wind down and turn off, like everyone else. The difference between you and I, at that moment, is that you will have wasted your life, while I spent mine trying to do everything and learn everything. Sleep well…

  54. Holms says

    “It is impossible to love something that doesn’t exist. Children love Santa because he does exist.”

    I guess it’s official then: Ray believes in Santa.

  55. frankgturner says

    @ jetboy and Holms #63 and 64
    I don’t think Comfort believes in Santa, so much as he would say that he does and on the surface deny all evidence to the contrary if it would make money for him.
    That’s why I think that he is deliberately stupid or outright lying (or both), it makes him money.

  56. johnhodges says

    I am reminded that Woody Allen once wrote: “I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I’m a vegetarian because I hate plants. “

  57. GuineaPigDan . says

    I remember Ray Comfort’s old blog used to get almost entirely atheist commenters and they’d do their best to explain Comfort’s factual errors and mistakes in logic with each post. There’s no way he can’t be familiar with atheist arguments and responses to him, so it’s dishonest that he just continues to beat up on strawmen and declare victory. This image comes from a Facebook page that posts tons of meme images of quotes from various Protestant Christians, so I think this is most likely just a fan made image with a Comfort quote plastered on it rather than officially being approved by Comfort. That just makes me sad to think there are people that accept what he says uncritically, and Comfort feels free to mislead and misinform his fans as much as he likes.

  58. caseloweraz says

    Is it possible to hate someone or something that doesn’t exist? (Rhetorical question)

    Here are some of the things I’ve seen Christians profess to hate:
    * Persecution by that Marxist/Muslim Obama, who’s bringing millions of jihadis into the country
    * Destruction of America that is being/will be brought about by legalization of same-sex marriage
    * The great increase in crime due to (Christian) prayer no longer being allowed in public schools
    * Obamacare, because it’s as bad as, or worse that, slavery
    * The outrageous imposition of being forced to bake cakes for paying customers they don’t like

    I think the answer should be clear. Thus, the assertion that atheists hate god because he exists rests not only on a false premise (god exists) but on an unjustified generalization (all atheists hate god).

  59. says

    I’m well known by the children I teach for despising Hello Kitty. So somewhere out there a 6′ 4″ Hello Kitty is lurking to get me once and for all.

  60. loopyj says

    I hate the way Ray Comfort speaks. It sounds like he’s always jumping up and down and slightly out of breath from repeating the same rote crap over and over and stomping on the corpses of the straw-atheists he’s vanquished. And I can’t read anything he’s written without hearing it in that voice.

  61. Turtles says

    How does he know that fairies, leprechauns and unicorns don’t exist? He has the same amount of data for/against their existence as he does for his god.

  62. frankgturner says

    @Turles #71
    Yes he does have as much evidence that they exist, none whatsoever. I looked up his background and at one point he made money doing exocisms and tried to get people to believe in ghosts. Given his past experience as a con artist it is likely that he just saw a better way of conning people.
    @ loopy #70
    That sort of goes with my line of thinking about him sounding like a spoiled child throwing an ongoing temper tantrum. You are not alone in envisioning him that way.
    @ jimatkins #69
    I got a nice laugh thinking of a 6 foot 4. Hello Kitty, doing that funny hand wave and shouting “DOMO ARIGATO!” in a loud feminine Japanese voice.
    @ GuineaPigDan # 67
    Having seen that he came from being a con artist I have often thought that it is all bullshit and just his way of making money. He has either blocked out his own critical thinking so that he sounds sincere and can keep milking the cash cow or just learned to ignore all rational info that he probably knows by heart now. The effect is the same and I suspect that if it wasn’t such a nice cash cow he would abandon it. My biggest question is, do we blame him for milking the cash cow with bullshit coated hands or do we blame YECs for BEING such a gullible cash cow?

  63. Menyambal says

    Ashley, that link was just sad. He claims that somebody from 300 years back was a creationist, when big-C Creationism really didn’t start until like 1950.

  64. eharo2 says

    In fact some atheists (including myself) love the FSM (Flying Spaghetti Monster)

  65. frankgturner says

    @ Menyembal #74
    I would guess that there were Xtian creationists 300 years ago (among others). This desire to have to engage in a simplified belief for a feeling of self pseudo security is nothing new. I get it though that this idea of Xtianity being under a big threat due to there being a working contradiction to a literal interpretation of scripture is fairly new.
    What I find mostvsaid about creationists like those found in the link is the idea of this false dichotomy, like if you can somehow prove biological evolution incorrect that this make Xtian creationism correct by default (which it doesn’t). The writer seems pretty sad, particularly his idea that a straw man of creationism is being attacked instead of the real thing. I was tempted to comment and ask him what his real idea of creationism is but I decided that he is just too sad to deal with.

  66. Menyambal says

    frankgturner, I was thinking of the Creationists who insist that there is good scientific evidence for the creation and who contrast it with the modern consensuses about evolution and cosmology.

    Before Darwin, for instance, there was just a vague assumption that varied from “God did it as described, I assume”, through “God did something less poetic”, to “I dunno, but something, possibly with God watching”. And that was among the Christian Europeans. There was no-one pretending to have scientific evidence for creation, because the very concept of science and evidence was yet to come. It was just a shrug, a handwave and a well-duh. But there was little snarling insistence that it had happened exactly as listed in Genesis. So I disagree with anyone who calls Francis Bacon, say, a Creationist.

  67. frankgturner says

    I would tend to agree that there was little snarling insistence that things happened exactly as described in scripture. What I am getting at is that there are individuals who make an emotional commitment to their beliefs who read scripture and find it comforting. James Randi talks about this (those who “need to believe”). If they exist now I am sure that they existed then as well. Perhaps not in large numbers, but I suspect that they were around.
    I do agree that most who accepted creation as described in scripture as fact were likely doing so for lack of a better explanation. Physical evidence for and a better explanation coming along were probably a driving force for resistance. Those who had made an emotional commitment to their beliefs had real competition and their insecurities were much more real. So evolutionary biology likely spawned an uprising.
    However, there are also plenty of documents regarding Martin Luther who founded Protestantism and his closed minded insecure absolutist attitude. (E.g.: his indication that reason and logic are the tools of evil). So there definitely was some snarling about the credibility of scripture.
    One solid distinction that I make that I find many do not is to differentiate “truth” from “factual correctness.”