1. says

    Thanks for the link to Scalzi’s blog.

    One of the commenters talks about how hir Texan mother is strict about respecting women. Having lived in the South for so long, this particular version of “respecting” women irritates me, because it seems borne out of special treatment for women (which in turn has roots in rigid gender roles).

    You must open the door for women.
    You must say “Yes ma’am” when speaking to any woman (in certain context, I almost always say this–such as when I’m at work; of course I also say “Yes, sir”).
    You must hold the umbrella for women.

    Those things are nice, yes. It can be polite, yes. But when it crosses over into what you “must” do, I take umbrage. The whole faux Southern hospitality (which I’ve mentioned in the past) really sticks in my craw.

    reading through some of the comments at Scalzi’s blog seems eerily similar to reading many of those on the Richards thread. I’m am thankful that he has many commenters (along with himself) trying to keep the conversation focused properly.

  2. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Random offspring comment: “I’m gonna be having SEX when I’m all grown up!”

    Okay. ^.^

  3. mildlymagnificent says

    From 481 Lynna, OM

    Pro-manufacturing liberals and Main Street conservative populists should unite against what the progressive economist Michael Hudson calls “the tollbooth economy” in alliance with what James K. Galbraith calls “the predator state.”

    I know Galbraith is good on this, but the best by far is John Ralston Saul. His views are focused on democracy and how corporatisation is antithetical to it rather than simply economic arguments – which are pretty compelling all on their own.

    Voltaire’s Bastards is a fan,tas.tic. rundown of how we got here from there, but The Unconscious Civilisation is a quicker, easier read for those who just want to know the outlines of his views without the history leading up to it.

  4. mildlymagnificent says

    And I’d just like to say that a single drawer dishwasher is a treasure beyond price (it was a bargain anyway). Neat, takes up not much space, I was used to dishdrawers anyway in our previous house, but knowing that I will never ever again have to bend to load or unload from a lower drawer or the near floor level of a conventional machine is a wonderful relief. Though the new sink seems to be at a more suitable height anyway – my back hasn’t been complaining when I’ve been doing some extra dishwashing in the bowl. I’ve not had the cannot-do-this-a-moment-longer feeling at all.

    Of course, now that the shelves and rail thingies have been installed on the no cupboards wall, the eternally true Law propounded by the eminent Professor Sod is now in full operation. Where do you think the half dozen packets of hooks for saucepans and tools might have gone? I gathered them and put them carefully aside, ready for action, the morning the installers were due to do the shelves. Sod’s Law? Or magic? Either way I can’t find them for the life of me. So my beautifully imagined wall of shining pans and lids and whisks and ladles is still a dream. Oh well. I’ve never had a well-designed, easy to use kitchen in 45 years, a few more days won’t hurt (not very much anyway).

  5. rq says

    Good morning, Gentle Folk?
    Feels like I’m talking about the Sidhe, using the word gentle.

    I understand what you say. I think I’ll have to try it. I just don’t know how else to address my colleagues as a group (honourable colleagues might work well, heh!). Well, I have a couple of months to figure this out until I actually have to go back, although they’ll probably put me on off-hours shifts again, so I won’t be dealing with anyone.

    *thumbs up* on offspring moment. :D

    Lots of yays for less pain and less bending over!! I hope mrmagnificent is recovering well, what’s the news (if any, if you want to share)?

  6. rq says

    Have fun with Eddie tonight! Tell him I say hi. ;)
    Seriously, have fun. Lots of it.

  7. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Yes! I’m looking forward to the show.

    How’s your weekend?

  8. rq says

    Rather quiet, thanks. Heading outside to sit in the yard and do nothing (nothing to shovel, nothing to weed). Probably a bunch of stuff that needs organizing and putting into place inside, but, you know, sunshine!
    I need to find a really good book (preferably with lots of coloured photos!) about rose cultivation. Any suggestions?
    I’ve decided I’m going to try and make them my special hobby. Which is a bit strange, considering roses aren’t my favourite flower. But I like what they do to the yard (at least, I hope I will like what they do to the yard, if they’ve survived the winter and if I manage not to kill them – my record with houseplants is inconsistent).

  9. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Sitting in the yard, in the sunshine. Sounds lovely.
    I know nothing about roses, so I can’t recommend any good books. My grandpa and father mostly relied on their memory and garden section in the papers, when it came to flowers.

    My record with houseplants… not good. They just don’t want to grow. I have an African violet that has only manged to almost-grow 6 tiny little leaves since autumn.

  10. rq says

    Ha. African violets is the only plant that I can’t seem to kill. And they keep blooming again and again and again. I also have a six-year-old bamboo (one of those fake bamboos that sometimes come with bouquets in flower shops) that has refused to die, and has grown several tall shoots.
    Orchids, though. I’m not sure if I drown them or kill them by dehydration, but that’s a bad record right there.

  11. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Oh, orchids!
    I got two for my birthday this summer. One, I managed to murder in about 10 days (the flowers), the other bloomed for about three months (yay).
    I’ve kept them, and they look nice with those big leaves, but neither of the two look like they might flower again. I still don’t know whether I’m watering them too much or too little.

    I had one of those miniature rose bushes for indoors and they did quite nicely. Lasted two or three years. I’ll get a new one in a month.

    Apparently, I manage to kill the most robust plant (African violet), but keep others more or less fine.

  12. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    It’s snowing here, and quite cold (0°C as measured in the park near me). What the fuck, weather?

  13. rq says

    My orchids lost all their leaves, too, and died all the way. I had hopes that one of them would bloom again, since for a time (last summer, I believe) it looked like it was growing a flower stem out, but it was some more leaves. And then more of the old leaves fell off, and that was that. Yeah, wasn’t sure if I was over- or under-watering.
    Had an indoor rosebush, too, but it got a weird mold on its leaves that I couldn’t remove (tried wiping the leaves with mild lemon juice and pruning them off, but it kept appearing elsewhere). Which is a bit why I’m worried about the outdoor roses, I’d rather they not die off!

  14. says

    With orchids, you are almost certainly watering them too much. They need almost nothing and are quite hard to kill by neglect. I’m no expert, but mine has lived 5 or 6 years now, and it flowers once a year. You can get “orchid food” to encourage flowering and some years I remember to apply it once. But basically I ignore it.

  15. rq says

    I am also disappointed with Spring (reminder: send memo). This time of March, I should be able to get out there with some shears and start pruning crap (never mind which crap, just pruning!!), but it’s too cold and there’s too much snow. I confess, my hands were getting itchy out there, today. But, alas, we still have about a week of negatives and that’s too cold (want to get the raspberry brambles in shape, too, but – cold weather! gah!).

  16. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    Thanks! I read about not watering them too much, but then my father started telling me I’m not caring about them enough, and that the one he has at work is already growing a new flower stem, while being watered often.

  17. rq says

    Well, they did seem to do better when I didn’t water them at all, but I didn’t exactly water them often (once every two weeks?). We inherited one with the house, and I haven’t touched except for pouring a bit of water into the bottom dish once, so we’ll see.
    You say the food is only for inducing flowers? I’ll keep that in mind… I may have overfed mine, too… :/

  18. says

    I am not an expert at all; you’ll probably get better info from google! I just have an orchid in my bathroom. And my mother used to have a lot in her courtyard and they also thrived on neglect. It may depend on the variety, though.

  19. rq says

    (Note to self: Leave the orchids alone!!)
    Actually, Alethea, I think your advice is good advice. I just don’t know how much attention is ‘too much’ yet, I suppose, not when it comes to orchids.

  20. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Thing #392843298472398434 I hate about politicians:
    Saying “restructuring” when they mean “firing”.

  21. Ogvorbis says


    Not to mention ‘right-sizing’, ‘targeted attrition’, and a whole bunch of other acronyms that mean ‘screw the workers.’

  22. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    You know, looking at yer bonny fiedies rq, you are a hell of a lot more qualified than I am with regards to musical performance. I’m not sure where my formal training left off but I can guarantee it wasn’t as high as grade eight. I do however have a pretty good grasp of harmony and no fears about composing, talent at it is of course another question.

    No progress yet. I’ve got my first appointment with the sleep specialist tomorrow and I’m kinda freaking out about that.

    A couple of thoughts though:

    -I’d like to do this as openly as possible so others will see how half-assed fun it is and maybe join in.
    -My initial thought was to write a song about the horde and its values. I know there can’t be universal agreement on what that might mean, but that’s art, or that’s what I’m told anyway and picking your feet ’till they bleed may only be the half of it…*
    -It should be a drinking song, or at least one that has a chorus that can be shouted along with for them’s that think they can’t sing.
    -I love, love, love the idea of having two, or more, languages being sung at once. There are medieval motets that feature three and for different lines of text in different languages. Years ago when I heard about it, no one was sure if they were all meant to be sung at once. I’ve always wanted to try this. My notion is to have at least one section where one language is commenting on the what the other is saying as it’s being said. The structure could be something like this song (my fav by her) The final chorus has three separate and somewhat overlapping vocal lines.

    Oh dear, it would appear that I’m having an attack of energy and optimism. Best stop there.

    A little nitpicky clarification WRT your explanation regarding musical distortion. It originally came from overdriving vacuum tubes, by pushing them beyond their rated capacities. As such, the compression that happens with distortion is intrinsic to it rather than a by-product; those too hot signals are getting clipped by the limits of the tube’s capacity. Or to put it another way, you can’t have what we think of as musical distortion without compressing the signal. Even non-tube square wave distortion like you’d get from a Big Muff is technically compressing the signal by clipping off the top and bottoms of the wave form.

    Or so I my half-assed understanding of it goes. If anyone has more concrete knowledge about this I’d love to hear it.

    *Bonus point to anyone (barring Janine, anyone who has a My Pal Foot Foot avatar has an unfair advantage) who gets the musical reference.

  23. rq says

    No no, I love the drive and optimism! It spills over onto me. *splashes around in drive and optimism re: this project*
    Yes to doing this publicly (socially?). The more the merrier!
    Yes to the multi-language idea (we can add in some French and oh hey, several other Horde-sourced languages, should anyone else become interested).
    I’m sure we can figure out some stuff about the Horde and its values for extra lyrics, we’ve got some more-than-half-decent poetru types hanging about, I’m sure.
    *hugs* (should they be wanted) for the sleep appointment, I hope you get a diagnosis and some relief!!
    And whenever there’s stuff, there will be stuff. :) I’m in no rush, as long as things happen eventually. /anticipation

  24. says


    That’s what I was getting at, roughly. I think your way of describing it might be a little clearer. But you can get clipping pretty much anywhere there’s an increase in the signal strength that butts up against the rated capacity of any component. Tube clipping is generally considered to be the most “musical” or pleasing to the ear, but it can happen pretty much anywhere in the signal chain… usually with less-satisfying results.

  25. FossilFishy(Anti-Vulcanist) says

    Yeah, I suspected that I was mis-reading your post Joe, ah well, we’ll just have to be in violent agreement. I will say that I suspect that tube distortion is in part considered the most musical because it was the first to be used. It set the standard to which all others followed. For myself, I love square wave clipping just as much or more than the fatter tube sound, depending on context of course.

  26. opposablethumbs says

    DaughterSpawn is home for almost a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

    I miss her when she’s away at uni, and now she is home for about 5 days ::hugs DaughterSpawn:: And, also great, she is getting a clearer idea of what sort of direction she’d like – ideally – to try to go after her degree. Whether she can is another thing altogether, obviously, but just crystallising out the beginnings of “hmm, this is what I’d like to do more of” is wonderful because for quite a while she really didn’t know. So yay.
    I am hugely looking forward to hearing more about (or of) Horde – The Musical (now with extra added squid).
    Seconding the health enquiry and good wishes to mildlymagnificent and mrmagnificent (also, I agree. Everything should be eye-level :-) )
    Happy Monday, Ogvorbis. Happy Sunday, calendarists. Happy day to Others.
    On benign neglect of houseplants – I am ignorant and rubbish at plants, but we have a yucca that has made it to over 25 years and is now touching the ceiling. We split it in half about 10 years ago, and the other half is outside in the snow and still surviving (though much smaller). But I feel guilty about not knowing how to look after plants properly; everything else is just in a big tangle on the windowsill.
    Assorted hugs and greetings to rq, Giliell, Portia, carlie, cicely, Tony, iJoe, FossilFishy, everyone in the Lounge and in the rest of the threads. Fingers and toes remain crossed for Dalillama, Cereberus, all those who have had some bad shit go down of late. Thank yous to PZ and Chris for making it possible for this place to be the way it is.
    Most of the Long Work is done, but there is still a big chunk to do. See Read you soon!

  27. Pteryxx says

    Reposting here, some good word out of the Did everything right thread. (original)

    Note the tweet quoted at the end of MoJo’s summary article:

    As the person who brought Adria’s original tweet to the attention of PyCon staff, I would do it again. Let’s build the best community we can

    A few other tweets from the Pythonistas:

    If your goal with the hate mail was to get me to back off on diversity, well, it totally fucking backfired. Keep it coming.


    I only got three emails and I’m fueled up for like 10 years of diversity effort. People are unreal.

    *slowclap* Great job, haters. Great. Job.

  28. says

    Thanks for the link to The Star.
    I read a few of the articles (so nice to read a non US perspective), but one really intrigued me:!/article/514cc47593e8e470b6017311
    Well drat, I cannot copy/paste any of the text from my phone. Anyways, it is about adapting George Romero’s original 1968 movie Night of the Living Dead as a stage play. Complete in black and white. I think that would be really neat to see!

  29. Portia says

    rq @479
    I forgot I made the comment, and now my response to your response is even more delayed : ) I can’t tell you how helpful the moral support is. (especially since digging in my heels and being “good” is kind of a lonely endeavor!)

    hooray for new kitchen :)


    DaughterSpawn is home for almost a week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yaaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

    :D :D :D

    I’m a bit out of it, on day two of a migraine. Yesterday was really punishing, worse than in recent memory. I had to cancel babysitting for two good friends so they could go out to dinner with the couple they’re going to ask to be their testamentary guardian of their son. Ah, well, there were others sick so it looked like they were gonna cancel anyway.

    I’m trying to figure out what brought this mrigraine on. It seems like it has been happening every damn weekend for the last month. Friday night’s sleep was interrupted by fire call because of a drunk teenager who ran his car into the side of a bar after he overcorrected from taking out a utility pole (reports are that he is fine). I don’t know if it was the lack of sleep or what but damn. Knocked me down like a ton of bricks.

    There was a little gray cat who was wandering around in and out of the barn that night. The property owners said “She’s looking for a home.” I don’t like all cats, but she really kind of hooked me. She looked healthy, so I’m not worried about her living out there on that farm, but she was so affectionate and sweet I sort of wished I could take her home. As we stood around waiting for the power company to arrive and deal with the down power line, she rubbed against all our legs. Of course, nobody felt it because fire boots really insulate your calves, ha. She made me nervous climbing on and around the down pole with the line still attached to it, though…

    It’s snowing outside, and will be all day. they call it a winter storm, but I suppose that’s a misnomer now. When I want to whine about the cold, I remind myself that low temps keep the arachnids away…haven’t seen a centipede since September.

    Alright back to the West Wing and the fetal position for me.

  30. opposablethumbs says

    Ack, Portia, that sounds like a killer migraine. I think I’m lucky, I get quite a lot of headaches lately but nothing like that disabling.

    I hope the West Wing distracts you while it goes away and leaves you in peace.

  31. Portia says

    Thanks, opposablethumbs. I was really happy when around 1 am I started to keep down water and saltines.

    Hope your day is going well.

    *ran his car into the side of a barn, not bar. It’s the boonies out here.

  32. rq says

    Hm, you do seem to be mentioning migraines rather often lately. I know health care is what it is where you are, but maybe it’s worth a professional look? Maybe…? Especially if the migraines are recurring and lasting for several days. I know migraines can do that sometimes, but… There’s a limit.
    Hope you feel better soon! *warmtea*

    You’re welcome for the link. Sometimes their perspective is as useless as the usual, and I can’t open your link because I have to be on a mobile device for it :P but yes. Also, there was this rather intriguing article about the new pope that you might enjoy (if you haven’t already read it). (Ok, the article isn’t all that much interesting, but still! Recently they had a nice piece about a feminist nun in Mexico in the 1600s. Things turn up every now and then, I’m glad you enjoy the read!)

  33. rq says

    Oh, and *threecheers* for opposablethumbs on the long slog! Yay! for the end in sight, and good luck with the rest. *energydrinkofhealthykind*

  34. Portia says

    Yeah, one of the main reasons I was hoping for the job with health insurance coverage was the ability to get a prescription for migraine meds again. I’ve seen a doctor for them before, and they’re pretty typically unhelpful. Partly because migraines are kind of a mystery. Without indicators for a tumor or something they’re not going to order an expensive scan for headaches. Which is fine, but it’s always the same song: “Do you usually get them before you menstruate?” “Do you usually get them when you’re dehydrated?” At least once I was told my insurance (piddly college provided stuff) wouldn’t cover any cost because I had complained of migraines before. Preexisting condition ftw! Then when I was in Chicago, I was able to get free care because of the university hospital’s program, and a good internist gave me a script that actually helped, and I could get it reasonably priced at Costco. Now, I would have to go to urgent care and the pills would be expensive and they don’t always work and on and on. : / Though I wonder if my prescription is still good…I could have the Costco pharmacy transfer it somewhere local… of course the problem then is that I got in trouble with my doctor for taking it too often. I took it five times in one month (they said take it when you feel it coming on, and sometimes when one starts it fizzles out and I can’t tell which is which so I’m sure I took it for non-serious ones in the mix). I got frustrated because I couldn’t exactly limit my headaches to the number of pills I was authorized to take. So she said the next step was possibly daily preventive drugs, which sounded horrible, but is probably what I actually need with this frequency of headache. I don’t wanna be on pharmaceuticals, and I don’t want to have headaches. Can’t I just have my cake and eat it too?!

    All of this is not to be dismissive of your sound advice. I do appreciate the concern. I wish there were better solutions to migraines in general and for healthcare for…well, everyone.

  35. Pteryxx says

    random postings:

    via Casaubon’s Book (thanks for mentioning hobby farmers!) this valuable list:

    8. No, they aren’t ours yet. And they won’t be on Thursday either, or next Friday, or the week after. Foster care adoption TAKES A LONG TIME. For the first year MINIMUM the goal is always for kids to return to their parents. It can take even longer than that. Even if we hope to adopt, things could change, and it is just like any long journey – it isn’t helpful to ask “Are we there yet” every five minutes.

    and suggestions:

    – . Be an honorary grandparent, aunt or uncle. Kids need as many people in their lives as possible, and relationships that say “you are special.”

    – . Become a respite provider, taking foster children for a week or a weekend so their parents can go away or take a break.

    – . Offer to babysit. Foster parents have lives, plus they have to go to meetings and trainings, and could definitely use the help.

    Good to know the concept “respite provider”.

    And in sadder news, cancer blogger Arijit “Poop Strong” Guha has died:

    Arijit Guha—rabble rouser, do-gooder, mustache enthusiast—died on March 22, 2013, after a spirited, graceful, and inspirational bout with cancer. His life was one of love, optimism, joy, humor, and compassion, and this page is to celebrate that life.

    via BB.

  36. says

    I agree: where’s my spring? It’s 32F out and light flurries. I’m scheduled to be camping (i.e. tent) in two weeks; I’d much appreciate spring (though sans rain) weather. I’ve done winter camping before, but I’m getting too old for it, so could spring arrive already?

  37. Portia says

    If it helps, the storm is supposed to lighten up as it heads your way, dontpanic. (If I’m remembering correctly which way is your way). A week of 30s and 40s, then we’ll get closer to spring levels with 50s. But I wouldn’t want to go tent camping in that. : p Then again, I’m a wimp about cold. Going anywhere fun?

  38. Portia says

    Many thanks :) I may treat myself to one or two Easter candies just because. : )

  39. The Mellow Monkey says

    Become a respite provider, taking foster children for a week or a weekend so their parents can go away or take a break.

    This is a really, really fabulous suggestion. Respite care can be wonderful beyond words, especially for households with children who have special needs. It helps the parents, but it’s also often a help to the kids. They get away from the stress that’s been building and then get refreshed parents. I’ve seen it bring devastatingly difficult situations back under control, but it can also just be a soothing break for everyone involved.

  40. rq says

    *antimigrainechocolate* for Portia.
    And, for what it’s worth, it’s colder than it ought to be in March here, too.

    (To be on the safe side, I’m TRIGGER_WARNING this song for violent imagery in the first two lines or so.) I wish I could sing like this. I have to say this is one of my all-time favourite slinky guitar songs, but I love it mostly for Grace Slick.
    That’s enough of my playlist for today. I have to find some happier songs to post, because a lot of them are real downers.

    I’m saying Good Night, and *bestwishes* to all!

  41. opposablethumbs says

    Sounds from your description a little like what my OH takes for migraine occasionally – sumatriptan succinate (I expect the proprietary name will be irrelevant anyway, but don’t proprietary names get caught in the filter? Or is that just for the ever-popular blue lozenges?)

    The advice about “when it’s coming on” sounds the same, anyway.

    Hope you can get the good drugs, Portia, migraine is the pits :-(

  42. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I had a great time at Izzard’s show. I don’t remember the last time I laughed as hard as tonight.


    Yep, there were horses. Oh, the horses. *snort*

  43. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Fuck. I need to start bringing earplugs when I go to the bar. :(

    Apparently these four guys think it’s a total gotcha that “professors teach feminism in a top-down, hierarchical way – they’re just making a new patriarchy!” *facepalm*

  44. Portia says

    Thanks iJoe, rq, and opposablethumbs. It’s down to a dull roar, and I had the wherewithal to make and eat tacos, so I’m not doing so terribly anymore.

    Glad you had an awesome time at the show! So fun.

    Night rq!

  45. mildlymagnificent says

    updating mrmagnificent. Now reasonably happily ensconced at the rehab centre. Still having problems with the taste of food. It seems his palate is affected both by the drugs he’s taking and something a bit more. Hoping this will improve once he moves onto more “normal” food.

    It’s a really good program. They take a whole fortnight for observation and assessment before deciding on goals and specific therapies, but they’ve already got him doing pre-writing exercises – though he may never get back to writing ordinary cursive again. (I haven’t reminded him that his ordinary cursive was very ordinary 35 years ago. He put some hard work in back then to come up with legible handwriting.) I have no idea how they’ll deal with his thinking-things-through issues, though the speed of improvement since getting rid of the pneumonia has been pretty impressive.

    I’ve got a suspicion that getting him involved in vigorous physical therapy will give him another boost. He is accustomed to walking reasonable distances most days of the week, often 5 or more kms. Doing something equally vigorous – as much as he can – in therapeutic environments/targeted activities will do him the world of good.

    Funny how social media works though. There I was, vaguely drifting around the aisles of the little local supermarket and my phone rings. It’s one of his mathematics/engineer mates from the university staff club. Except said friend is on a contract in Saudi. Wasn’t a wonderfully clear connection but a good conversation. (He’ll be back for a visit in June and I’m hoping he’ll visit mr. Funnily enough, his wife refused to go to Saudi with him. She was concerned about the eldest child’s education, but she wasn’t too thrilled with not driving or living any reasonable kind of life either.)

  46. Portia says

    Good to have an update on mr, mildlymagnificent. Hope that he gets that physical therapy. *hugs* for you.

  47. says

    Ooh, I do. That there is total proof that while I may be spoonless, I am not spineless! I have been feeling a bit spineless recently, but I think I misdiagnosed myself.

    That is actually a section of my own personal spine, from a proper bone densitometry test. (Which is totally normal.)

  48. Ogvorbis says

    Testing, testing, do I have a new gravatar?

    Clifford the Big Red dog on top of Clifford the Big Red Dog on top of Clifford the Big Red Dog? Yes.

  49. Ogvorbis says



    I posted my Clifford joke before I saw your second comment. I’m glad your spine is normal. (If you were a porcupine, would you get your spines scanned?)

  50. says

    No need to apologise, Oggy!

    And I was expecting it to be normal, this was a routine test due to being old :) It was very cool seeing it take shape on the screen. The pic I got to keep was larger, but I decided that 3 vertebrae was best to show some structure at this size image, rather than just a mysterious red line. I have a hip/femur joint one, too, and while it’s more obvious what it is, that doesn’t let me make the not-spineless joke.

  51. Ogvorbis says

    I have a hip/femur joint one, too, and while it’s more obvious what it is, that doesn’t let me make the not-spineless joke.

    Now is your chance to show just how hip you really are!

    G’night, all.

    To sleep, perchance not to dream.

  52. cicely () says

    This segues rather neatly from car collisions, to How Science Works (co-starring the Higgs Boson).
    Undergraduate History Illustrated.

    rq, you’ve just reminded me that the miniature rose I got a couple of weeks ago, and which has been living on my desk…will by now almost certainly be dead. There’s no way in the Netherworld Of Your Choice that anyone will have been looking after it while we’ve been absorbed with Completely Uncalled-For Medical Drama.

    FossilFishy: Best wishes for your sleep appointment.

    Portia: *gentle hugs* and sympathy. I’ve never had actual migraines—some humdingers of sinus headaches, though—but they sound perfectly hideous; almost bad enough to serve as evidence for Malevolent Design.

    mildlymagnificent: Hurray! for impressive rate of improvement.

  53. says

    *passes a fatty joint to Portia*

    For the headache, man.

    Mildlymagnificent & the Mr
    *happy dance* for improvement!

    Either every plant I’ve owned was suicidal, or I’m just. that. bad. at keeping plants. (I killed a cactus.)

    Hoping my older sister E will count 45 minutes of Wii boxing a “workout”, because I’m not in the mood for weights and shit today. Sustained a heart rate of 120bpm for most of that 45 minutes, so… that’s good, right?

  54. cicely () says

    WMDKitty: I’ve killed cacti. I’ve killed begonias. I’ve killed ivies (though, perplexingly, the ones at the office are surviving in spite of my care).
    I’ve killed mint.

  55. says

    *hugs* to Portia, and anyone else who needs them
    Sleep well, Oggie

    My track record with house plants is also a washout, as is my track record of attempts at a community garden plot. I still hold out hope that if I had a better window angle/a closer outdoor garden that i might be able to do better, though.

  56. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Hi Lounge!

    So yeah. . .my Twitter account is suspended. Nope, no idea why. I don’t spam or mass follow or anything like that. Twitter doesn’t tell you. They say “read the rules,” as if you’re supposed to know which one you broke. They also claim that when you submit a ticket they’ll email you. They don’t, apparently, for weeks, according to blogs.

    On a positive note, spanakopita is baking.

  57. cicely () says

    I’ve killed mint.


    By diligently following the Care and Feeding instructions.
    I remember the day that I sat at my desk, looking at my ailing mint plants with their sickly stems and few remaining leaves, and listening while the radio’s gardening expert told the World At Large that mint plants are intrusive, and have to be vigorously cropped back to prevent them taking over the whole garden….
    Shortly thereafter, my mints dropped those remaining leaves, and it was all over.

  58. carlie says

    cicely – that is fuckin’ impressive. Which reminds me, didn’t I promise once to send you some of my Mint That Cannot Be Killed? if you email me an address at carliesinternet at the yahoo, I’ll send you some once the snow melts.

  59. Portia says

    Thanks for the sympathy, WMDKitty and Dalillama.

    I’m trying not to sleep until it’s actually my normal time because yesterday and last night were so spotty on sleep that I want to actually have a full night tonight.


    I love spanakopita. Favorite food, I think.


    I killed a houseplant that was sort of tree-like that my mom gave me. I’m sad about it. But I have another one that have survived a lot of me-imposed droughts. It’s so resilient.


    Just watched an episode of TWW with a lawyer character named Portia :)

  60. Portia says

    Grammar, how does it work? Sheesh.

    That’s more exercise than I’ve done in months, WMDKitty. : )

    Alethea: Neat picture :)

  61. carlie says

    Josh – the fuckers! Did you have a lot of tweets in a short time? Use bad words? More likely, get reported by an MRAsshole?

  62. Portia says

    Who wants some happy?
    Santa Fe’s city attorney says same sex marriage is legal in New Mexico.

    Santa Fe officials on Tuesday urged county clerks to provide same-sex couples with marriage licenses, claiming that same-sex marriage was legal in New Mexico.

    In a legal memo, City Attorney Geno Zamara explained that the state’s definite of marriage was gender-neutral and therefore did not prohibit same-sex marriage. He also noted that the constitution of New Mexico prohibits denying equality under the law on the basis of sex.

  63. David Marjanović says

    Keeping myself up way too long so I can catch up. …Wow. Way too long indeed. O_o

    *megahugs* for cicely.
    How is the husband now?
    How are you holding up?

    All seconded.

    I’m doing a Marjanovic!
    This will probably take all evening. I shall probably have to do some food shopping and cooking in the middle of it.

    ♥ ♥ ♥

    (And yes, I’ve interrupted writing a comment to cook before. Possibly also to go shopping.)

    For IJoe, too, and anyone else who needs them. Man, I do.

    *hugs* ^_^
    *happiness tea*
    *calming manatees*
    *chocolate* (it’s staple food!)

    Did I mention that she once yelled at me, I mean literally yelled, inside a car, for about 30 – 40 minutes, because I briefly interrupted her during Q &A after the first presentation I did?

    …Wow. She needs professional help.

    Is there a National Sarcasm Reserve?

    Full of win.

    Did I neglect to mention that she’s aggressively Christian? Wow, I kinda miss the days when her constant cries of “Praise Jesus!” were at the top of the list of weird things she does.


    What about the guard-squid?

    Subthread won.

    He was surprised to learn that men get erections while we sleep.

    Yep, morning wood means you haven’t slept enough.

    In late 2011, for example, Inna and two other activists travelled to Minsk, in Belarus, to protest outside the KGB offices against Alexander Lukashenko, the man often called Europe’s last dictator.

    Finding this too dangerous in the long run, they switched to wrestling polar bears all day long. Still naked. In the bears’ natural habitat.

    WTF. Only protesting like that in China would be more dangerous these days. Lukashenko has, like, no sense of humor – or shame.

    Belgium — sorry for the naughty word — needs to be famous for something…

    It’s already famous for the “French” fries.

    The stuff is $5,573 a milligram.

    :-O OFFS.

    While some of that occurred under the benevolent guidance of territorial occupants not descended from one of the many Latvian tribes,

    Well, I had expected those to do all the seafaring. And I had no idea at all about the Vikings-from-the-other-side.

    Oh, and squid in Latvian is tinteszivs (fem., Group VI), literally inkfish. And it can be rhymed with a lot of other fish names, like haizivs, valzivs (now just plain valis due to science proving it’s a mammal)

    German: Tintenfisch, Hai(fisch) “shark”, Walfisch.

    Me, I still feel iffy on ‘guys’. I know some people find it acceptable to use for mixed gender grouping, or even same gender groups, but I do not quite understand why. ‘Guy’ is such a male term.

    Elsewhere in the US, there are people for whom you_guys is the plural of you, applicable to any audience up to and including a room full of professors of all genders. Was quite an experience when I first got to see this in 2006.

    I remind myself that low temps keep the arachnids away…haven’t seen a centipede since September.

    Centipedes aren’t arachnids.

  64. chigau (違う) says


    …without having to put pants on.

    Always a good thing. In sooo many situations.

  65. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    Still having problems with the taste of food. It seems his palate is affected both by the drugs he’s taking and something a bit more. Hoping this will improve once he moves onto more “normal” food.

    This will probably pass with time (and adjustment to medications). I’ve nursed my mother through three joint replacements, heart surgery, and her recovery from a nearly fatal car accident. Every single time she had problems with the taste of food afterward, which faded with time. I’m very happy to hear mrmagnificent is otherwise doing well.

    WMDKitty and cicely – Have either of you managed to kill bamboo? I understand that is a true test of one’s plant-killing prowess.

    Josh – *pouncehug* Sorry about your Twitter account.

  66. cicely () says

    Ack! So no bamboos have died at my hands.
    *leaves, muttering and shaking head*

  67. Hekuni Cat, MQG says


    So no bamboos have died at my hands.

    I’ve been assured that it takes something on the magnitude of napalm to stop bamboo. :D

  68. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    *preemptive hugs* and a warning that I’m typing as I’m getting ready to go to work so I’ll be out soon:

    Azkyroth, share?

  69. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    >.> So, I wound up having a lapse of judgment today, insofar as I wound up going to a bar around 2:30 and drinking five, 10oz, 10-12%abv beers over the course of the next three hours. This did not end badly, though it was close. My ex had been supposed to drop our daughter off at 6:00, and apparently decided this would be the one time ever she actually showed up on time to do so; she texted me at 5:58 and I realized in the process of getting up to pull my phone out of my pocket that I’d badly misjudged how long I’d take to sober up. I was able to get her to drop our daughter off to my parents in the mean time, explaining I was out and I’d be along shortly (I think this was all I said on the phone); said dropping off happened about 6:30. By 6:45, with the bar apparently closing early on Sunday and the remaining other patron pestering me about calling a cab, I realized I was dead wrong about feeling okay in fifteen minutes as I’d expected 20 minutes previously and tried calling a couple friends before getting a ride home from my parents, who were able to both come and help get my car back. Unfortunately, this meant bringing my daughter, too; I originally thought this could be a teachable moment, but realizing she WOULD bring it up to her mom, so we explained it as my having car trouble. We came back to my parents’ place about 7:30 and had a late dinner, which we’d originally planned for more like 6:30.

    My parents weren’t punitive or judgmental, fortunately, but I feel kind of shaken up by the whole event. I think part of it is just that my sense of “moderation” is calibrated for stuff in the 7% range…and part of it…I’m really not sure. I’m also worried my ex…being an alcoholic as well as a horrible human being, if she gets any more information than I think she has I’m worried about her either trying to make hay with it or Being Concerned.

    Does anyone have suggestions, or should I stick to reassurance that this kind of thing is forgivable and I shouldn’t feel like a fuckup?

  70. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Err. “five, ten ounce.” Is that the font or me that’s doing that?

  71. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    It’s most definitely forgivable and you shouldn’t feel like a fuck-up. It’s now obvious to you that doing this was not a good idea, and you won’t do a repeat, right?
    I can’t really make any other suggestion than not doing it again.
    Regarding your ex… No matter how much I usually advocate honesty, remembering things you’ve written about her before, I think I agree you better not give her ammunition.

    If other advice you get is diametrically opposite to mine, you should probably listen to them in the end. Smart people here, and it’s still early for my slowly waking up brain.


  72. says

    It is an understandable mistake; beers that strong are quite rare, and you are accustomed to weaker brews. Something to avoid in future, probably, but you handled it well, and no harm done, so all’s good. *hugs*

  73. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Maybe. I feel like a child again, though. I fucking hate that. >.>

  74. rq says

    Good morning!
    Yay Beatrice for having fun!

    *hugs* (should they be wanted) for Azkyroth.
    It’s forgivable and you shouldn’t feel like a fuckup. Shit happens.
    I don’t have any good advice about the ex, though, but I’d have to go with Beatrice, unless there’s some way to downplay the whole thing. :/

    I’m in the process of killing a mint. It’s resisting, but I think I’m getting the better of it. Unless it makes it until thaw, when I will put it outside and let it wreak havoc on some corner of the yard. If it is strong enough.
    I am also in the process of killing a cactus, but it’s one of those Christmas cactuses, so I don’t think it counts.

    Hekuni Cat
    I have not, alas, yet killed a bamboo. But it might be in the works (seriously, this whole moving thing + plants…).

    Yes, Latvians borrow some fish names due to spending time on large ships under the leadership of people of other languages, which is why all the foreign ones are [word]-zivs. Also, I’m pretty sure that, if some territorial occupants have a handy subjugated bunch of peoples at their beck and call, they’re bound to use them in some of the heavy-labour aspects of long-distance sailing and attempts at colonization.
    Which does not mean they were incapable of it on their own. Just some bad luck about being in a very advantageous spot on the world map. *shrug*

  75. rq says

    Also: *threecheers* for mildlymagnificent and the good recovery news. I hope all continues with the same progress!

  76. blf says

    fucking barley wines

    I prefer to drink ’em.
    The inmates are into some really kinky stuff around here…


    My method of murdering plants is to try and care for them.
    As long as I leave ’em alone, they thrive. Even grow with great vigor. But as soon as I do anything — water them, pick a fruit, perhaps even look at ’em crosseyed — they curl up and die. I’ve wondered if I radiate some sort of an AGTF (Anti-Green Thumb Field).

  77. carlie says

    Azkyroth – do you realize how many lesser people would have just tried to “look” sober when the kid was dropped off, or who would have decided they “needed” to get right home and tried to drive anyway? You were as responsible about what happened as anybody could possibly be. But yes, don’t say a word of it to the child or the ex, because the ex doesn’t play fair. There is no honor (or even honesty, really) in handing ammunition to someone who will bend around the truth of what happened to suit their own interests.

  78. opposablethumbs says

    Seconding what carlie said, Azkyroth. I think you handled the unexpected situation responsibly (and forewarned is forearmed against the juice of the barley next time).

  79. carlie says

    I had a similar situation a couple of weeks ago, just in the realm of “what percentage is this again?” I had carefully planned my driving so that I could have a beer at lunch. While drinking said beer, I realized that I was being much more affected than normal for one beer and really shouldn’t have another. Finally I figured out that the one I had ordered was a 7.5%, not the usual 3 whatever. So yeah, I’m a lightweight, but I totally empathize with having a calibration for one type of alcohol and then if it’s just a couple percent more than you’re used to, that can totally throw you out of whack.

  80. rq says

    What did it to me was being off the stuff for a while, and then thinking I could still pull the up-till-4-with-4-beers trick (yes, four for the entire night – I thought that was a reasonable amount, considering the party started at 7PM)… Well, I was shocked at how ugly and unpretty the next day was, but at least I didn’t have to do any driving. Husband let me wallow in bed while telling the kids I had a stomach virus. :/ [/shame]

  81. Ogvorbis says

    Good morning.

    Happy Tuesday.

    New boss is here today. Well, new boss’s boss.

    I’m a little worried. Every time we have gotten a new boss, or a new boss’s boss, I have spent the next 6 to 18 months in the dog house. Then they discover I actually get things done and I get hit with everything. We’ll see what happens.

    Bad dreams last night. Nothing new, just . . . bad. Body memories. All kinds of shit.


    Cerberus is, like, a god to me. Your 1347 on the Adria Richards thread. Wow. Thank you.

  82. Ogvorbis says


    Thirding (or fourthing, fifthing, whatevering) that you did the right thing. Good job, mate.

    (Oh, shit. I’m starting to write like Louis. And I’m sober!)

  83. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Weather, you must have misunderstood me. I didn’t say more snow. I said WTF why is it snowing at all!?
    Not just bit of snow fluffing around and melting almost immediately today, but the real thing making traffic hell again.

  84. Ogvorbis says


    Snow here too. We are expecting 2 to 4 feet of snow.

    Wait. That can’t be right.

    Inches. Two to four inches.

    No. Still to much.

    Two to four centimeters. Or, if you would prefer, 200 to 400 millimetres. Now that sounds like a snow storm!

  85. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    Well, we’re not exactly having a snow storm either :), but there’s enough of the thing to screw up city traffic, since no one was prepared.
    And enough to screw up the trip I was supposed to make on the weekend. :/

  86. blf says

    WTF why is it snowing at all!?

    Some eejit must have been shoveling the stuff. Again. Don’t you ever learn? All that accomplishes is annoying the snow. So it falls again. And again. Until the eejits give up.

    And then the penguins come out to play and all is well…
    (Especially if there is some cheese to be had.)

  87. blf says

    The bridge in Turkey that vanished overnight:

    Are you in the market for a 22-tonne bridge? Is there an 82ft gap that you’re aching to span? If so, and assuming you like to play fast and loose with the law, you might want to get over to the Kocaeli province of Turkey where, earlier this month, audacious thieves stole an entire bridge overnight. It’s thought the miscreants intended to sell it for scrap metal …

    It’s not the first time thieves have displayed such ambition. Earlier this year half a bridge in India was stolen over the course of three days — the 40 thieves involved told a guard they had been contracted by the public works department, and blithely set up their cranes. Last year, in the Czech Republic, a 10-tonne railway bridge was stolen by a gang who pretended to be making way for a nifty new cycle route.

    There was a similar-ish case in Dublin in 2001, where some of the rare granite stonework lining the River Liffey was stolen. I have no idea if it was ever recovered.

  88. chigau (違う) says

    Last night I dreamed I was cataloging the contents of a kitchen drawer:
    potato masher, check
    spatula, check
    rolling pin, check…
    it was so boring, I woke up.
    Oggie, feel free to borrow this dream any time you need to.

  89. Ogvorbis says


    In Germany , two locomotives and a passenger car (carriage) were stolen from a museum. In Ukraine , steam locomotives were stolen for scrap. Up in Massachusetts (can’t find the news feed on this one), seven miles of railroad tracks were stolen and sold for scrap. This is one reason that railroads invest heavily in having their own police force.

  90. blf says

    Last night I dreamed I was cataloging the contents of a kitchen drawer

    Makes sense. That way, you overlook the metal bridges, granite stonework, railroad tracks, locomotives, and other “junk” cluttering up your front hall. However, I don’t think it’s going to work as an alibi…

  91. Ogvorbis says

    Last night I dreamed I was cataloging the contents of a kitchen drawer:
    potato masher, check
    spatula, check

    So, basically, you are dreaming of the goddess Annoia? Wow. Beats hell out of my dreams.

  92. chigau (違う) says

    Given the quantity of unsorted mail, unfinished projects, event-specific brief cases, etc. cluttering up my front hall and living room and dining room, there could be metal bridges, granite stonework, railroad tracks, locomotives in there.
    and what are you doing in my house?

  93. blf says

    [W]hat are you doing in my house?

    Trying to find the fecking door! With all the unsorted mail, unfinished projects, event-specific brief cases, metal bridges, granite stonework, railroad tracks, and locomotives, I can’t see it…

    I’m currently stuck under what is either a locomotive, alien spaceship (there’s a little green man here with an enormous Rip Van Winkle–ish beard), or coffee plant crossed with a Triffid (perhaps with added pea). My last known co-ordinates is just North of the rather concave desk on which there is a thriving pizza-box civilization, next to the black hole with the clogged event horizon.

  94. Ogvorbis says

    or coffee plant crossed with a Triffid (perhaps with added pea).

    Would that be a pTriffid?

  95. thumper1990 says

    @blf #623

    Lol! First time, I read that as “Trying to find the fecking odor!”. I thought “That’s a little uncalled for…”

  96. Ogvorbis says

    First time, I read that as “Trying to find the fecking odor!”.

    That’s from the large wheel of Lancre Blue being used as a paperweight/doorstop.

  97. thumper1990 says


    I am a big fan of smelly cheese, but I am unfamiliar with Lancre Blue. Terry Pratchett referenced it in one of his books and I’ve been meaning to try it ever since…

  98. Ogvorbis says


    A few years back, someone tried to steal some heavy gauge copper wire from an electrical switching box at a power relay station. The wire was live. The desperate person trying to feed his family wasn’t.

  99. thumper1990 says


    Yeah I’ve heard a few stories like that. There was an incident near me where some kids climbed a pylon intending to steal the cable from the top. Needless to say the one wielding the cable-cutters is now deserving of a Darwin Award.

  100. Portia says

    Centipedes aren’t arachnids.

    Wha….the internet lied to me?! Darn, I’ll have to hunt down yet another name to put in my collection of -phobias. : p

    Azkyroth: Carlie’s point about your judgment is a great one. You realized immediately (long before any real harm was done) that you were in a not-great state, and you involved other adults to make sure that your daughter and you were safe. You needn’t feel badly about it, or childlike. We all have times when we need assistance from other people, whether we caused a situation or not. Sometimes those people happen to be our parents.

  101. blf says

    I recall reading very recently (this year?) about someone someplace in the UK who tried to steal either the cables or the actual electrified third rail, and would up cooking themselves instead.

    (Whilst trying to locate the article I vaguely recall, I would up killing my browser. Bad mouse! Bad mouse! Clicks are supposed to go on the button I meant, not there the cursor is…)

  102. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    My husband is writing a novel.* In this particular story, several of the characters are lesbian. He wants to portray them realistically and is wondering if anyone could recommend any books, websites, or other sources he could read to assist with his research.

    *Well, actually, several. He just gave me the second draft of a different one.

  103. says

    *runs through waiving at folks*
    HI there.
    We’re in France and yes, holidays!
    Apart from the kids taking turns at being a pain in the ass, everything is fine. We had wonderful sunshine yesterday, sadly the prognosis for the rest of the week is cloudy, but who cares, as long as it’s dry. It#s freezing back at home.

    See you all in a feww days

  104. Portia says

    *waves at Giliell*

    Have fun!

    Joe: I feel the same way about frozen apple pie. I like it best with a chunk of cheddar cheese. Omnomnom.

  105. Rey Fox says

    Perhaps I can hide it here…

    I got firsties on the “Get ’em young” thread today! And on another post a week or so ago!

  106. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says

    I had leftovers today, so I made a new salad (non-vegetarian, but it would probably still be pretty good even without the meat):

    chicken breasts, leftover from baking half a chicken in the oven
    white beans
    mayo, salt and vinegar as dressing

  107. says

    These are the Senators who voted for Rand Paul’s budget on Friday, March 22, 2013:
    I added the religious affiliations.

    Rand Paul: Presbyterian
    Barrasso: Presbyterian
    Coburn: Southern Baptist
    Cornyn: Church of Christ
    Mike Crapo: Mormon
    Cruz: Southern Baptist
    Enzi: Presbyterian
    Jeff Flake: Mormon
    Inhofe: Presbyterian
    Johnson: Lutheran
    Mike Lee: Mormon
    McConnell: Southern Baptist
    Moran: Methodist
    Risch: Catholic
    Scott: Evangelical Christian
    Sessions: Methodist
    Shelby: Presbyterian
    Vitter: Catholic

    They are all Republicans. Here’s a summary of the Rand Paul budget, quoted from The Maddow Blog:

    To eliminates the deficit in five years, the senator would abolish the Departments of Education, Energy, Commerce, and Housing and Urban Development, while privatizing the Transportation Security Authority. Paul would also slash taxes on the rich by establishing a 17% flat tax and eliminating capital gains taxes.

    What’s more, Paul’s budget plan would raise the Social Security retirement age and privatize Medicare, while taking health care benefits away from millions of Americans by eliminating the entirety of the Affordable Care Act.

  108. rq says

    *appears at Lounge door, breathing hard, clinging to doorframe*
    Wow. Just struggled through the Richards thread, and … what’s the term for being beyond impressed? Because that’s what I am, with the Horde, right now – most especially Cerberus (should you be around, please take a bow, I would like to publicly acknowledge your Awesomeness!).
    I’m surprised it hasn’t died any kind of a death (the thread, that is), but I offer *sustenanceofchoice* to those still sticking it out in there. You all are impressive.

  109. rq says

    Dammit, I was going to post the Get ‘Em Young link here a few days ago. And then I couldn’t find it again once the computer was up and running again. So thanks to PZ.
    (Stupid compooter.)

  110. says

    So many mormons are involved in multi-level marketing (MLM) schemes that the LDS Church itself is once again warning the sheeple to beware. Salt Lake Tribune link.

    One thing the mormon church never acknowledges is that they set the sheeple up for this kind of fleecing by teaching them how Not to think critically.

    Last week, our bishop got up in sacrament meeting and read a letter to the congregation from LDS Church headquarters. It was about money.

    The letter cautioned members against doing business with those “who use relationships of trust to promote risky or even fraudulent investment and business schemes.”

    Unspiritual translation: If your elders’ quorum president or home teacher wants you to invest in some property he has on the moon, it’s probably a good idea to refuse. …

    Meanwhile, ex-mormons are getting a cautionary word out about the latest mormon MLM, Vemma.

    My youngest son called me last week because his teenage friend had him all fired up over Vemma.

    This is how it went.
    son “I have some good news!”
    Me “cool”
    son “do you trust me?”
    Me “not as far as I could throw you”
    son ” Blah blah blah Vemma! blah blah blah BMW! blah blah blaw $3000 a month!”
    Me “uhuh”
    Son “I just need xyz amount of money to get started!” …

  111. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    I don’t know if I’ve ever posted in the lounge. It sure is comfy in here!

    So, I just read this super-awesome list of ways to improve a fantasy story, linked from Spacetrawler , by one Sophia McDougall, about whom I know nothing.

    If you don’t read Spacetrawler or stare glossy-eyed at it, you should.

    And I have a feeling that many people here will appreciate Sophia McDougall’s list. There seems to be a theme developing around feminist-minded people lately and that theme is speaking up. I somehow think that some of the points on Sophia’s list could reasonably be extracted and slightly modified for use outside of fantasy books. Number four should be particularly easy.

    I’m just going to sit here a while.

  112. says

    The single biggest fundraising change between 2008 and 2012 was the disappearance from the political arena of the mightiest foe of gay marriage – the Mormon Church.

    That’s a quote from a Reuters article that summarizes the foes and supporters of gay marriage.

    I think they underestimate the degree to which mormons are still fighting gay marriage, but they are right to note that we the people have at least shamed the Mormon Church into softening or going underground with their anti-gay campaigns.

  113. Ogvorbis says

    Tonight, for dinner, stir fried steak with broccoli in a fermented black bean sauce with vegetable fried rice (which will have peas!).

    I just needed to drop something that was not yet another response to the MRA tag-teaming in the two Richards threads.

  114. Portia says

    Mmmmm, dinner sounds good, Og!

    I applaud everyone in those threads, and I wish I could help (not that I usually have the time/wherewithal). I just can’t. I’m just worn out by the world of crap lately. And I don’t even have as much of a right to be as many, many others.

    I haven’t dropped a pile of hugs lately.

    Here, everybody, have some:

  115. says

    Portia Camping early spring in mid-Illinois: Fun? Yeah, for a particular value of “fun” (YMMV). My current outdoor activity/sport/hobby is using billion dollar satellites to find tuperware containers in the woods. That Saturday two weeks from now, me and at least 500 similarly afflicted individuals will be tromping around the woods poking our hands in weird places and being a bit silly. Last year I competed in the men-over-50 individual event, and came in 6th (of 15) with 14 finds in 2.5 hours (6.5 miles of rough terrain w/ 655 of ascent/descent). I only hope I have spoons enough this year to do as well.

    mildlymagnificent Glad to hear things are going the right direction w/ mr.

    though he may never get back to writing ordinary cursive again.

    I’ve never really managed cursive writing. Over 35 years ago in high school I had a teacher return a essay to me because I’d printed it
    (mostly legibly) and insist that I re-do it in cursive. That was one of the most painful (academic, i.e. non-bullying related) things I remember doing in HS. It was probably the last time I ever did any cursive writing. I took up caligraphy in an attempt to improve my handwriting, but while it made my printing improve some, it never did much for the intended target. Nowadays I can’t write w/ a pen much at all; arthritis seems to affect my ability to use a pen for any length of time, but (largely) leaves my typing unaffected.

    cicely, Dalillama, others Oh, so you’all have the same brown thumb I do. Plants, how the #?%$ do they work?

    Azkyroth What carlie@606 (and those before/after) said.

  116. dianne says

    @ HC: If your husband is unfamiliar with Alison Bechdel’s work, he should become familiar with it right now. Also, at risk of sounding trite and/or condescending, you must know some lesbians. Maybe talk to them about their lives?

  117. rq says

    Hello, Thomathy!
    If you have any thoughts on peas and horses, we’d love to hear them.
    (Nice list!)

  118. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Heya everyone I haven’t seen in a while. . oggie, cicely, Azkyroth, Tony, Portia, Dalillama, HekuniCat [pouncehug back!] and everyone else.

    Steak and broccoli is one of my favorite meals. Mmmm. I love broccoli as much as people who hate broccoli hate it. I eat the stuff all the time. I like it so much I don’t even *want* to put any fat on it. Just a sprinkle of salt and lemon juice over crisp-tender stalks.

    So, y’all know how I’m That Crazy Kerosene Lamp Guy and stuff? Well, oddball hobbies have a way of turning really interesting. Among my lamps are Aladdin brand kerosene incandescent-mantle lamps. Think of a Coleman lantern with its glowing mesh bag, then substitute a very hot, blue-flame kerosene burner without the hiss, and that’s an Aladdin. Also much prettier.

    The mantles are costly—about $12, and extremely fragile, so one handles them with great care. After only about a week’s use, mine have been failing. The U-shaped wire that suspends the mantle over the flame dwindles down to a toothpick-thin spot as they cool. The flexing metal ejects tiny pieces which rip holes in the delicate mesh of the mantle. I’ve done just about everything to make sure the problem isn’t me.

    So I wrote the Aladdin company with pix (they’re super awesome, btw. . a group of fans and collectors who bought the company about 12 years ago to save it from the dustbin of history). The VP just called to ask me questions for troubleshooting. I’m going to test half-a-dozen mantles they’re sending me to help them narrow down problematic lots. Gettin’ my geek on with experimental kerosene protocols–boo yeah.

    We suspect the wires used in manufacture may have been adulterated by inferior metal, crudding up the 308 stainless steel that’s supposed to be used.

    I shoulda been born in the Industrial Age.

  119. dianne says

    I love broccoli as much as people who hate broccoli hate it.

    Me too. I like it by itself, I like it in virtually any savory dish. The fact that George Bush apparently hates the stuff is icing on the broccoli* too.

    *Which I’ve never actually tried, but sounds potentially appealing.

  120. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    Hi, rq.

    I like peas …

    I make a good curried split pea and ham soup with lentils and beans (heavy on the cumin, because yummy, and heavy on the turmeric, also because yummy).

    I should maybe post that recipe sometime.

    Horses are big and their eyes freak me out.


  121. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    That pea soup sounds great, Thomathy. Please do share. Pea soup is one of my favorites and on heavy rotation in my kitchen, though I haven’t done it Indian-style yet.

  122. says

    Hi Josh! *hugs* good to see you again.

    Thomathy that does sound tasty, but I’m the only one in the house who’d probably eat it, so there’s no point in making a batch.

    Does anyone here happen to know anything about the diameter and/or thickness of giant squid tentacles? It’s become relevant for a game that I’m running. Specifically, there’s a giant giant squid (spawned by the Kraken) attacking their ship, and I need to know how much work it’s going to take to sever arms and/or tentacles.

  123. mythbri says

    Threadrupt, sorry.

    I put a link in one of my comments on PZ’s “Get ’em young” thread and neglected to post a trigger warning on it.

    Trigger Warning for descriptions of animal abuse, rape culture and victim-blaming.

    I know that people here are tired of de-humanizing analogies, but I actually think Marcotte handled this very well, and made it clear that she was speaking about perception and culture shifts, not directly comparing women to cats.

    Avoid the comments if you’re tired of equivocation and bullshit.

  124. says

    Remember the big whoopdeedoo about women possibly, maybe, being allowed to offer invocations and benedictions during the upcoming mormon General Conference?

    Well, this too-little-too-late news of offering a facade of equality for women in the LDS church has brought mormons who dislike change out of the woodwork. Case in point, James A. Marples of Provo, Utah:

    I read “April Mormon conference may make history: women will pray” (Tribune, March 19) with great disappointment. I may be a male-chauvinist piglet to many women, yet the fundamentals of scripture are unchanging.

    The Apostle Paul divinely stated in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

    Woman was created for man; this world was made for men to lead households and prayers. Man was created in God’s image — not in a woman’s image.

    American society has become so politically correct that it has spilled over to theology. Women, as well as children, may sing in church and participate in other ways.

    If Brigham Young were alive today, I’m certain he would denounce women overshadowing the proper sphere of men. The sexes have different roles.

  125. Rey Fox says

    I apologize if this is too close to the sewer threads to be brought up here, but…

    …is the job “developer evangelist” as full of bullshit as it sounds?

  126. Hekuni Cat, MQG says

    dianne – Thank you. Unfortunately, neither of us are very social people in meatspace. At present, everyone we regularly interact with identify as straight.

  127. dianne says

    Just struggled through the Richards thread, and … what’s the term for being beyond impressed? Because that’s what I am, with the Horde, right now – most especially Cerberus (should you be around, please take a bow, I would like to publicly acknowledge your Awesomeness!).

    Want to second this sentiment, especially since I am one of the people who ran away from the thread and refused to keep pounding my head against the wall of MRA stupidity. Well, not really stupidity. More overt evil. Anyway, kudos to those willing to take it on. Right now I’m just interested in going into denial mode and pretending that people like that don’t exist or are the extreme minority. Which, I know, is not so.

  128. says

    Hey everyone…

    …and hey Josh, sorry about the Twitter thing. Odd that you would be the one suspended, I’m the one who was tweeting about eating fetuses.

    Welcome Thomathy, and way to ingratiate yourself with food talk. Smooth…


    Well, I’m going to try cooking duck again this week. There’s so many difference recipes and suggested techniques online that I get a little overwhelmed, and want to try them all on a single bird. So do I score the skin AND pour boiling water over it AND pour hot oil over it AND salt it and let it sit in the refrigerator overnight to draw moisture out of the skin? That might be overkill. Might. Do I debone it and stuff it with twelve different kinds of stuffing and glaze it seven ways too?

  129. dianne says

    Speaking of men and mansplaining…am I being unreasonable to find Avicenna’s list of problems women in India face here to be problematic?

  130. says

    Louisiana seems hell bent on giving violent offenders the right to buy and own guns.

    A New Orleans judge ruled last Thursday that a law forbidding felons from owning firearms infringes their rights to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the state’s newly amended constitution.

    Although Louisiana already had extremely permissive gun laws (and the second highest gun-murder rate in the country), last November voters overwhelmingly passed an initiative backed by the National Rifle Association that made gun ownership a fundamental right with the same levels of protection as the freedoms of religion and speech.

    The amendment requires judges to review gun-control legislation using “strict scrutiny,” the most stringent standard of judicial review. In his decision, Judge Darryl Derbigny wrote that statute RS 14:95.1, which bars firearm ownership for people convicted of violent crimes, such as murder, assault, rape and battery, and certain misdemeanors, is “unconstitutional in its entirety.”…

    Uh …. convicted felons who committed violent crimes have been deprived of some of their rights through due process.

    Republican lawmakers across the country are pushing felons’ gun rights…

    Isn’t that just peachy.

  131. rq says

    Improbable Joe
    Yes. Just yes.

    Sounds like a delicious soup. And you’re walking a fine line between acceptance and being stuck taking out the Lounge’s rubbish, what with liking peas but not horses. The horse bit, at least, will get you on cicely‘s good side.
    (I’m the other kind of halfie here, I like Horses but don’t like peas – although peas in soup are usually good and that particular recipe sounds heartwarming in the literal kind of sense, but Portia will even eat them as popsicles.)

  132. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    So, I’m back on Twitter, but none the wiser about what I “did.” Most plausible scenario is that a group of homophobic bigots I and Jafafa Hots were arguing with acted true to form and reported my @replies as spam. Gotta shut the fags up.

  133. says

    According to the Los Angeles Times, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Robert’s lesbian cousin will attend the Prop 8 hearing.

    Jean Podrasky, 48, a lesbian who wants to marry her partner, will be at Tuesday’s U.S. Supreme Court hearing on Proposition 8 in seating reserved for family members and guests of Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr….

  134. Rey Fox says

    Republican lawmakers across the country are pushing felons’ gun rights…

    Well, if felons can’t have guns, then who are we going to use to justify everyone else having guns? The important thing is that we keep selling guns.

  135. Portia says

    According to the Los Angeles Times, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Robert’s lesbian cousin will attend the Prop 8 hearing.

    O.O *rapt attention to the case becomes even raptererer*

  136. Beatrice (looking for a happy thought) says


    His list starts with “Female Foetuses are aborted” and ends with gender selective abortion. Telling, I guess. I’m definitely not thrilled.

  137. howard says


    Avicenna concluded:

    And to take these women to denigrate the sufferings of others? The voice of these women wants to stop all rape and the abuse of women and to be treated as equals. Not to have MRAs take their voice to beat those who have suffered less into silence.

    Context–it’s all a response to Judgybitch, posting on A Voice For Men. (ergo the references to voices)

    It’s… speaking against the Dear Muslima attitude, and I think the bit in the middle (Steubenville tweets vs. the list of offenses against Indian women) is supposed to show that this is part of the same spectrum, that it’s the same damn rape culture–but I could be wrong.

  138. Thomathy, Gay Where it Counts says

    Not to toot my own horn, but it is a good soup and it is heartwarming. Josh, I’ll try to put the recipe in writing; I know how fond so many are of sharing recipes here and food is community in so many ways.

    It’s really not like me to participate in the lounge, but, frankly, last week was a shit storm in the ‘sphere and I’m off to a surprisingly good start this week. I did, after all, find that super-awesome list and that brightened my mood.

    rq, I’m not worried about acceptance. People totes know me ’round here, just not as a Lounge participant. That said, it’s not that I don’t like horses, they just creep me out. Hmm …actually, no, yeah.

    -trigger warning for non-carnivorous participants-

    Improbable Joe, stop before you ruin that duck. Just do it peking style. It’s a pain, but the crispy skin is worth it. Alternatively, do it like you would white-cut chicken. Blanch till cooked and the fat and marrow should render. Then you refrigerate it dry for a few hours and it should all coagulate under the skin. Then you chop it up and serve it cold with a sauce made from (you can’t use too much) green onions and ginger with 1/4cup or so of hot oil poured over and Maggi sauce to taste (your kitchen is not complete without Maggi) and rice. Or, you know, de-bone it and glaze the hell out of it.

    Hmm …and now I want white-cut chicken.

    Oh, you shouldn’t need to brine the duck like you would a chicken, though I wouldn’t think a bit of a bath would hurt …salt being so delicious. For the heck of it, just brine anything like poultry before cooking it, even just a little. I mean, unless you don’t drink enough water and care about your heart.

  139. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    But so many do have to say it, Katherine. Yep, your dad’s an asshat all right. Would he wear a Planned Parenthood T-shirt for the same reasons?

  140. dianne says

    @Howard: I think you’re right in your interpretation, but that’s part of the problem. Avicenna isn’t an MRA or an old school sexist. He does get it that the “Dear Muslima” defense is no defense at all. But I find his apparent assumption, possibly subconscious, that making sure that female babies are born is more important than protecting the rights of women and girls who are already born troubling.

    Also, I see aborting female fetuses in India as a rational decision. Why have a daughter who is likely to be starved to death or die in an “accidental” fire or be married to someone who will use her as a domestic slave and sex toy? Better not to have any daughters, IMHO.

  141. dianne says

    Would he wear a Planned Parenthood T-shirt for the same reasons?

    I double dog dare you to get him one and suggest that he wear it (and contribute to planned parenthood) on the same grounds.

  142. says

    Republicans have won another battle, (though to what end is questionable), by simply being obstructionist.

    Eminently qualified New York lawyer, Caitlin Halligan, was nominated for a post on a federal appeals court in Washington. She was nominated two and half years ago. All this time, Republicans have prevented her confirmation by refusing to even allow the vote to come up.

    Why? Because Halligan has worked on a case against gun manufacturers.

    The Washington D.C. circuit has four vacancies. In theory, Obama could fill those vacancies. In reality, Republicans will stall all Obama nominations by refusing to let them come up for a vote.

    Dear Harry Reid, dude, you really should have pushed for filibuster reform.

    New York Times link.

  143. Rey Fox says

    he hates seeing peoples’ rights being taken away.

    I hate seeing people’s lives being taken away.

  144. howard says

    Dianne@678: good points. All I saw was the most obvious mis-reading of the post–should have dug a little deeper, like you did.

  145. Portia says

    You’re right about that list.
    I had similar misconceptions about the Things That Are Wrong with sex selective abortion after reading Unnatural Selection. I think it was you, not that long ago, who pointed out the crappy priorities involved in denying women the right to decide what is right for them in such a toxic environment. Thanks for straightening my thoughts out on that one.

  146. David Marjanović says

    Los Angeles Times, Supreme Court Chief Justice John Robert’s

    …Nine uppercase words in a row. Only English can do that.

    (Took me a while to decipher what it all meant.)

  147. says

    I shared a pic of Gloria Steinem’s birthday on Facebook. My first response was from my father. I was so happy to see him say: “Now she is a great American patriot”.
    I quibble a little about the inclusion of American, as feminism is certainly not unique to America, but the underlying message that those 7 words conveyed made me smile. One of those “Wow. I am really proud.” kind of smiles. I haven’t spoken to my parents about my views on feminism, but knowing this about my father says loads.

  148. says

    Oh, what a crock of shit!

    This douche is arguing that men “calm down faster” and are able to be rational about disputes, and women can’t, ‘cuz women take, like, forever to calm down, and will ride your ass about the tiniest things that aren’t even offensive (or a problem).

    Yeah. Heard that argument on a daily basis from The Jackass. He was always right because he was “calm and rational” (read: disturbingly emotionless) and I was “hysterical” or “over-reacting” (read: having a normal human response to repeated abuse and fuckwittery) and therefore always wrong.

    Someone actually linked to that abomination of a blog post to go all Sanctimommy and push gender roles as “normal” because, “MY children conform to these gendered expectations that I’m TOTALLY NOT PUSHING ON THEM (except that I am), and this one guy says women are irrational and emotional, so THERE!”

  149. says



    Mmmm. I love broccoli as much as people who hate broccoli hate it. I eat the stuff all the time.

    If you like ranch dressing, I have a favorite treat. Ranch sprinkled with red pepper flakes and raw broccoli or carrots as the veggie of choice (though really, any veggie probably works). Often when I am munchy at 1 am, rather than chips or pretzels, I reach for this. I moderate the ranch so that I’m not consuming too much. Sometimes I will add some hot sauce and garlic powder to the mix. SOOOOOO delish.


    I am so disappointed in you. Have cicely and I taught you nothing about peas? They have no place on the dinner plate (certainly not mixed in with rice). They make decent compost though.


    The fact that George Bush apparently hates the stuff is icing on the broccoli* too.

    *Which I’ve never actually tried, but sounds potentially appealing appalling.


    The pro pea people are outnumbering us!!!!
    They called in reinforcements!
    Next thing you know Josh will say he rides horseback to work every day.

  150. says

    Well as a man, I don’t calm down that soon after being angry. Of course each situation is different, but at times it has taken me hours to calm down, and a few days before I’m ready to speak to whomever pissed me off (which is best, as I don’t usually communicate very well with someone I am pissed at).

  151. Pteryxx says

    This douche is arguing that men “calm down faster” and are able to be rational about disputes, and women can’t, ‘cuz women take, like, forever to calm down, and will ride your ass about the tiniest things that aren’t even offensive (or a problem).

    …This douche hasn’t seen the Adria Richards threads, I take it.

  152. says

    Tony, Pteryxx

    Yeah, that’s kinda my point. It’s coming off as yet another way to dismiss women’s concerns, and, I dunno, it might just be me being paranoid, but I detected a distinct undercurrent of “bitches need to shut up.”

  153. Rey Fox says

    Seriously, though. “Developer evangelist”. Is this a good indicator of how much wankery is in the tech business?

    I’m coming to the end of my graduate assistantship, my stipend has been cut in half, and I still haven’t gotten a job to land in yet. But after today’s threads, I can thank my lucky stars that I’m not in tech or advertising. At least I don’t have to hate myself.

  154. says

    I have a question. I think I lack a fuller understanding of the nature of racism. I have read a few comments over the last few days about racism. From what some of you have said, it seems like there is a component of power that is necessary for someone to be racist (along with their bigoted views). I haven’t gone back and looked at the specific posts, but I think comments about black people not being able to be racist towards white people is what has spawned my confusion. Can someone point me in the right direction so that I can read up more about this?

    (as an example, I read today that George Zimmerman’s brother made some stupid comment about black teens being dangerous. I immediately thought that was racist thing to say. But then I remembered the comments here, and was confused by the power differential between Hispanics and Blacks in the US).

  155. says

    Yeah, what in the ever-loving fuck is a “developer evangelist”?

    The, the image I’m conjuring up is, uh, is really not flattering. Like, it’s a dude in kinda stereotypically-geeky clothes, you know, plaid shirt, pocket protector, thick glasses, (I’m awful, I know!), except it’s a plaid robe (with the pocket protector), and he’s holding this, like, “Developer Bible” and spewing forth all kinds of vile toxic sexist bullshit (coming out of his mouth like flames, maybe?) while a vast army (read: it’s like, 30-40 guys) of brogrammer clones (and a few token “chill girls”) back him up with torches and pitchforks and appropriate tools of the trade.

    Whoa. That was kinda epic, actually. I can totally see the scene in my head, but… my art skills leave much to be desired.

    I might give it a try, though — we’ll see what happens.

  156. says

    (as an example, I read today that George Zimmerman’s brother made some stupid comment about black teens being dangerous. I immediately thought that was racist thing to say. But then I remembered the comments here, and was confused by the power differential between Hispanics and Blacks in the US).

    Of course it was a racist thing to say.

    Once, just once, I want an anchor to say something like “guys named George Zimmerman are dangerous”…

  157. Rey Fox says

    And if I’m getting any splash damage on any decent techsters, please let me know. These last couple days here have kinda soured me.

  158. says

    I’m not touching the rest of that, Tony, because I’m not, like, totally up to speed on race issues, either.

    Here’s where I sit: George Zimmerman stalked an unarmed teenager based on nothing more than “black kid in a hoodie = OMGTROUBLE”. This is documented fact, as he was on the phone with 911 dispatchers — they even told him not to follow! He confronted Trayvon. Trayvon reacted to a credible threat of violence. Whether he responded with violent action himself, I don’t know, but if he did, it was justified in this situation as his life was under direct threat.

    Think about it for a minute, man — you’re walking home with candy and soda, and there’s this guy, in a van, following you. Shit, that’s right out of every scare story we tell kids, and a fair number of horror movies! Dude in the van keeps following you, real slow like, so you speed up. You speed up a bit more. Dude gets out of the van and approaches you. You start running. He’s running, too! He catches up and he’s got a fucking gun, man. A gun. And he’s yelling at you. You push him away, he stumbles, falls… maybe hits his head. You try to run. He’s up. He’s right there.

    Acting in self defence was a valid response. For Trayvon.

    Notsomuch for Zimmerman, because, dude, stalking him through the neighborhood.

    The racial disparity (white guy shoots unarmed black teenager walking through his own neighbourhood) was highlighted early on, and right up until Zimmerman started making a stink about being Hispanic, this played out like just about any other murder. But the second he’s making noise about being a minority himself, oh, it couldn’t possibly be racially motivated, because minorities can’t be prejudiced!

    So, yeah… his claims of being Hispanic sound really… convenient… to me.

  159. chigau (違う) says

    I’m caught up on the Adria thread.
    I’m at 169 on the Arse thread, should I bother?

  160. Ichthyic says

    Another media outlet has decided its biased, unscientific flash polls should be relevant to anything.

    This time, they’ve allowed themselves (or been paid) to be duped by the local religious extremeists, who have gamed their poll:

    This is ridiculous. The NZ Herald is claiming that its fucking NEWSPAPER flash poll is representative of Kiwi attitudes regarding marriage equality. This is utter bullshit, but all the other NZ media have jumped on board with it. Sorry, but a newspaper poll is NOT an unbiased poll FFS! I’m tired of the media claiming these polls are at all relevant to ANY issue, as it has been shown endlessly that they can be easily gamed.

    I hereby nominate this poll for extreme pharyngulation!

    thanks muchly.

  161. Ichthyic says

    FWIW…. ALL the official, unbiased, random polls done by NGOs and the government here have shown consistently that Kiwis favor marriage equality by over 60%. Been that way since I arrived.

  162. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    From what some of you have said, it seems like there is a component of power that is necessary for someone to be racist (along with their bigoted views). I haven’t gone back and looked at the specific posts, but I think comments about black people not being able to be racist towards white people is what has spawned my confusion.

    Certainly the power differential makes anti-white prejudice among blacks much less damaging than anti-black prejudice among whites (historical reasons influence both this and it generally being far more substantiated)…but the idea that someone or something can only be “racist” if it’s coming from a particular group seems like straight-up special pleading.

  163. Portia says


    Not to mention the possibly most horrifying detail: There’s audio of that poor child screaming for his life.

    It’s in the background of a neighbor’s 911 call, IIRC.

    Any time.

  164. Portia says

    The sociological definition of racism is prejudice+power. It doesn’t just mean “bias against people of a different race than you.”

  165. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    …unless, of course, we’re using it, too, as a term of art that doesn’t equate to its widely understood meaning (in this case of “having and/or acting on racial prejudice”).

  166. says

    George Zimmerman can totally be racist. He’s half white and half Hispanic, and in Florida especially that’s higher on the racial ladder than any black person of equal economic status. There’s plenty of “light skinned privilege” to go around, after all. If someone can look at you and say “what are you, Italian or something?” you’re the next best thing to a white person.

  167. chigau (違う) says

    I have beer and smokes.
    I go to use them.

    I have no popcorn and I want popcorn
    sad :,(

  168. Portia says

    I have beer and smokes.
    I go to use them.
    (I got the 4-pack.)

    Portia-approved choices. :D

  169. rq says

    I have to say, I needed a lot of time to struggle through that thread (at the expense of everything else I could have read), and, while the Stupidity within that thread is just… Awful, dealing with the JB troll is actually making me giggle a bit. Not his attitude, but the way he’s being treated and responded to. Thanks to everyone contributing there, hugely. (Looking forward to the haiku, not there yet!)
    Thanks for the racism links, Portia. They help me feel a bit more educated. ;)

    What did you do with the bird?? /dyingofcuriosity

  170. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    What did you do with the bird??

    Flipped it, I assume. :D

  171. Ichthyic says

    about a week ago, and it has wreaked havoc with the code ever since. First it was the fonts, now I’m having problems with links in the sidebar every time I reload a page.

    I was happy to give whoever is doing the programming for FtB a lot of slack in the beginning of this project, but now I have to say, if whoever it is was working for me, they’d be in serious danger of losing their job at this point.

    too much sloppy work, no backup website, obviously no beta testing.


  172. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    701. Tony

    What happened was Adria was using the sociological definition of racism in a tweet. (prejudice + power)

    White people were claiming that’s racist against whites. I and others said no, it’s not racist. I also commented how I didn’t like people calling her “stupid’, and “airheaded” because of her “racist” tweet, but that’s as far as it went on that threads.

    So, for resources on this line of thinking you sure probably look up things that use the sociological view. I’d give some of my own links I got from here but I literally just lost all my bookmarks. (Grrr!)

    Anyone else having problems not being able to copy comment numbers and usernames? It’s fucking pissing me off. And there’s this now chat live shit in the lower right corner, which for some reason I can select when trying to copy comment name/number. More GRRRR!

  173. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    OMG Thanks WMDKitty! I never would have thought of that.

  174. carlie says

    Ah, JAL just beat me to it. I was going to say that it depends on how you define “racism”. Some people define it as simply prejudice against people based on their ethnicity, others (sociologists I guess particularly) define it as a response to a person that is because of their ethnicity, but is also rooted in a power dynamic whereby the person being prejudiced is also more socially powerful than the one being prejudiced against, and the outcome of the racism is to push the oppressed person further down. So in that sense a person who is a member of a minority group could be bigoted or prejudiced, but wouldn’t be called racist.

  175. Pteryxx says

    If anyone’s using Noscript, the chat thingie comes from nowtalk dot com, which (on a search) nobody seems to ever have heard of.

  176. carlie says

    I’m also having the sidebar links not working problem (and weren’t they going to be moved back to the right sometime?) I know ads are necessary, but the most obtrusive kind like this chat thing are ridiculous.

  177. carlie says

    Many people have asked and asked for a generic FTB page to report problems to, but the very real problem with that is that it would be so overrun with false reports from ‘pitters that it would quickly become useless.

  178. mildlymagnificent says

    Oh I rather like that “scale” moving from prejudice, to bigoted to racist. Prejudice is something you can have. Bigotry is what happens when you let it distort your thinking. Racism is the full-blown exercise of particular prejudices in social arrangements and interactions.

    Reminds me of ye olde International Classification of Impairments, Disabilities and Handicaps ( – now superseded by the Classification of Functioning, Disability and Health – which I don’t like as much because it’s not so clearly stepped. Impairments are simply physical or mental variations from the norm, like poor eyesight all the way through to complete incapacity. Disabilities only arise when that impairment can’t be rectified by eyeglasses or medications or surgery or devices. Handicaps are entirely social – a disability is only a handicap if your social environment doesn’t/can’t cater for it. So two people who have the exact same disability in walking don’t have the same handicap if one does and one doesn’t live in a location where suitable ramps and rails make life easier for them. Some people’s disabilities are so profound that they are handicapped in any imaginable living arrangement.

    You can hold prejudices against people of certain kinds, but it only becomes racism if you can and do apply that prejudice to make their lives more difficult or impossible. Neatly scaled. Wish we’d had such clear distinctions in the materials we used to use for equal opportunity training.

  179. mildlymagnificent says

    Why doesn’t that idiotic chat box have a little cross in the corner to make it disappear. It seems even more idiotic when it’s appearing at the bottom of a general conversation page like here or tea-dome.

    We’re already chatting.

  180. rq says

    Funny, I’m not seeing it*.

    Roses. Can anyone recommend a good book on rose cultivation? Something clear, concise, and understandable to a beginner? The main goal would be to not kill them all, but tips on how to grow them esthetically would also be welcome. I’ve found several books on with good recommendations, but if anyone has any kind of practical experience with the subject, I’d be very grateful for advice!

    *For which I am glad, and I append a tentative yet to that statement.

  181. Ogvorbis says

    Good morning. Hump Day! and only 9 days until vacation!

    I am so disappointed in you. Have cicely and I taught you nothing about peas? They have no place on the dinner plate (certainly not mixed in with rice). They make decent compost though.

    I’m disappointed in me, too.

    Oh. Peas.

    They were good in the fried rice (along with red sweet peppers, jalapeno peppers, onions, and garlic).

  182. Pteryxx says

    …Wait a minute, that chat thingie’s only been there a week, apparently from a company with no presence? Is that even a real attempt at a feature and not some sort of malware?

  183. carlie says

    mildlymagnificent, I love everything about your comment! To highlight this:

    Disabilities only arise when that impairment can’t be rectified by eyeglasses or medications or surgery or devices. Handicaps are entirely social – a disability is only a handicap if your social environment doesn’t/can’t cater for it.

    There was just a story on All Things Considered yesterday about this – there’s a county that has a very high rate of people getting disability benefits, so fraud was the first thought. However, turns out it’s a very poor area with a very non-mobile population, and the only jobs are those involving heavy labor (even the retail jobs suck, because chains everywhere in the US force employees to stand for no reason other than to keep them from looking lazy, I guess). That means that even though people with, say, back injuries, could easily do a desk job, there are no desk jobs to be had. That means that, for where they live, they are functionally disabled in terms of being unable to work.

    Pteryxx – it’s not an FTB feature, just an ad for another company that has their own chats and wants you to go participate in them.

  184. Pteryxx says

    Pteryxx – it’s not an FTB feature, just an ad for another company that has their own chats and wants you to go participate in them.

    Oh, okay. …Well that’s pretty slimy as it is, making an ad LOOK like a locally-approved feature with functionality. Yick.

  185. blf says

    Giliell … *runs through waiving at folks*
    HI there.
    We’re in France

    Yes, we is.
    Here’s a useful tip for finding the best fromageries: Look for the ones which have a penguin-shaped hole in the wall. The more such holes, the better (sortof like ★ ratings).