Comments

  2. Nutmeg says

    There was a thunderstorm! Yay! That was possibly the first decent thunderstorm of the summer.

  4. ChasCPeterson says

    Excellent.
    No extrinsic top-down rules whatsoever.
    It’s all intrinsic autoregulation.
    Let’s see what happens.

    I say: excellent.

  6. says

    I have ZERO control over the Sb site anymore. It’s all in the hands of NatGeo.

    I can’t even delete spam. They haven’t granted me access to the comments controls.

    I’ve also noticed that the kooks and fringies and weirdos are starting to get active over there — I’ve got an alt med asshole there telling me how useless vaccinations are — and the old commentariat is all over here fighting over who is more spockish than who, so he’s barely getting any pushback.

    I’m not watching for spam or bothering with spam reports here, either, but the filters are in a pretty solid state and are keeping most of that out unattended, for now.

    So no, don’t bother making bug reports to me. You guys get to figure out workarounds. I’m just dealing with the articles and letting the fires in the comments rage on. Have fun!

  7. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    PZ, I presume you’re still going to limit thread length, i.e. kickstart new TETs every so often?

  9. Owlmirror says

    I tried to put together safe spaces, and acted as the janitor when people tried to shit in them —

    PZ, you’ve always banned people who engaged in behaviors that annoyed you.

    Many of the people who annoyed you annoyed others as well. And one of the behaviors that annoyed you was people who were annoying others. But you banned people pretty much for your own reasons.

    and got howls of protest that I dared to do so.

    From who?

    Very rarely, people have complained that you were occasionally too quick with the trigger finger, or too arbitrary, but I don’t recall “howls of protest” over too many people.

    And if this is over ixchel, well, I might suggest that this he’s a case that demands a bit more nuance than you usually show.

    So you guys get to clean it up on your own now.

    By magic?

  10. chigau (違う) says

    I’ve been caring about the comments for 10 fucking years.

    At some point, are you going to tell us what’s really going on?

  11. One Thousand Needles says

    I’m not familiar with the WordPress platform, but is a way to give some trusted individual a login with restricted permissions so that they can publish TET/TZT threads and moderate comments?

    IMHO, this seems like a problem that could be solved by delegating responsibilities.

  14. says

    PZ, you’ve always banned people who engaged in behaviors that annoyed you.

    Why, yes. Whose blog is it? I’m really surprised that you haven’t yet realized that I’ve always run this place as my place.

    By magic?

    Sure. Or I thought you were all going to do stuff like cooperate and settle disagreements by polite reason.

    I’ve got my fingers crossed hoping to see new emergent behaviors appear.

  15. Pteryxx says

    I’m not familiar with the WordPress platform, but is a way to give some trusted individual a login with restricted permissions so that they can publish TET/TZT threads and moderate comments?

    If it actually goes that far, I’d suggest contacting Ed about starting spinoff blogs for each, moderated by cohorts.

  16. says

    a way to give some trusted individual a login with restricted permissions so that they can publish TET/TZT threads and moderate comments?

    See #11 above. My blog. Also, all I’d need is one wacko to get those privileges and go on a deletion spree.

    So hellz no.

    Besides, we’re doing an experiment in social engineering. I’m looking for New Prigoginic Levels of Complexity to emerge here.

  17. John Morales says

    chigau, he’s riding a tiger by the tail.

    He’s created a monster, and it’s got its own ideas of good behaviour.

    He’s fed up by the sense of entitlement felt by regulars.

    He’s entitled to a bit of fun and games.

    He’s proving a point.

    etc.

  19. says

    Chaos! Will an attractor appear? Will it stabilize in some interesting pattern? Will it collapse into a cloud of pffft?

  21. Ogvorbis says

    My father managed to lock himself into a car.

    My sister, the second-level samoyed, had her car parked out in the driveway up in Maine. It started to drizzle at about 3:00am so he went outside to put up the windows in Sister’s car. And he hit the panic button on her fob and all the doors locked. And he could not find the unlock button (he never drives the Subaru and it is about a decade newer than his). So, after sitting for ten minutes, he began honking the horn. Which he did until Mom came out and walked him through the unlocking routine.

  23. Ogvorbis says

    Ah, it’s a Mad Scientist™ experiment! :)

    I have a hard time picturing PZed with an Igor. Or an Igorina.

  25. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    free market of snark

    free snarket

  26. broboxley OT says

    PZ if you need a break let this thing evolve, if it does not, bang it flat then create it again. Either way enjoy some time off without wondering “wtf are they up to this time?”

  27. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    ChasCPeterson wrote:

    ANARCHY!

    I was led to believe that was meant to happen in the UK – though I’m getting my knowledge of history via popular music, so it may not be accurate.

  28. Sili says

    Occasionally. Just occasionally, the Internet still throws a curveball my way.

    I had no idea that noselessness was a fetish.

  29. says

    I had no idea that noselessness was a fetish.

    There’s a who in the what now? Noselessness is a fetish… Okaaaaaaaaaay?!?!

  30. Sili says

    Chaos! Will an attractor appear?

    Yes.

    Will it stabilize in some interesting pattern?

    No.

    Will it collapse into a cloud of pffft?

    Dear Spud, let’s hope so.

  31. Ogvorbis says

    Occasionally. Just occasionally, the Internet still throws a curveball my way.

    I had no idea that noselessness was a fetish.

    Would it be wrong for me to thank you for not providing a link?

  32. Sili says

    There’s a who in the what now? Noselessness is a fetish… Okaaaaaaaaaay?!?!

    Why else edit screencaptures to remove the noses, and try to make explanations for their removal?

    I didn’t look any closer at the gallery to see if there was a lot of Voldemortiana.

  35. Sili says

    Bwahahahahahahaha! Good one.

    I’ve been caring about the comments for 10 fucking years.

    Let me just say, that I love to see this side of you. It’s good fun to have the cyberpistol waved around like this.

  37. says

    I’m watching Breaking Bad shortly. I think I’ve been inspired by Walt White.

    I’ve learned from that show that if I do need to clean up the mess left over after this experiment, hydrofluoric acid and setting everything on fire works.

  38. Owen says

    So, while people are hiding under the blankets, perhaps they might need something to pass the time. I respectfully submit this, in which Wil Wheaton and Steve Jackson play Munchkin.

  39. Pteryxx says

    …This is because NatGeo sat on the old comments for so long and hasn’t given mod control back, isn’t it? Freedom from responsibility’s made PZ drunk with lack-of-power!

  41. ibyea says

    @Chas
    Err, oops. Sorry about that, you are right. In my extremely lame defense, I think my brain has been classically conditioned to read any comment in TZT as an attack. :)

  42. ibyea says

    @PZ
    Another lesson, if you are an underpayed science major, you could make more money by going to the meth business. I am pretty sure there is something in there that you can relate to. ;)

  43. says

    Thanks Caerie,
    It’s pretty much my first attempt at a completely digital piece. I usually stick with pencil or India ink and paper.

  44. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Somebody stop me, I just signed up for a buttload of new online courses! One of which requires me to have GoogleEarth downloaded, and with around 2 hours to kill between my first shift and my second shift at work, it feels almost criminal to just waste that time sleeping post-run.

    So uh, any suggestions for a decent but not expensive netbook, or a tablet? I need something that can do video, allow me blog access, and maybe some word processing so I can do rough drafts for essays. And uh, yeah, GoogleEarth.

  45. carlie says

    *putting on placation hat*

    This isn’t too different from the way it’s been before, right? I mean, PZ used to ban, what, maybe two or three people a year, and let everything else fight itself out. He was probably paying a lot of attention to everything, but he kept a light hand and let it all play out and let the group self-police. Jeez, I can barely keep up with two or three threads at a time; I can’t imagine how he covers all the threads on two blogs all the time.

    Will be interesting to see what happens.

    I brought popcorn with sea salt and slightly melted cheddar shreds mixed in, and some lightweight microfiber throws if anyone’s getting a bit chilly.

  47. ibyea says

    @carlie
    Yay, popcorn!

    Wait, sciblog’s pharyngula comment section is alive once again?

  48. Owlmirror says

    Whose blog is it? I’m really surprised that you haven’t yet realized that I’ve always run this place as my place.

    Except that’s exactly what I was saying.

    I’ve learned from that show that if I do need to clean up the mess left over after this experiment, hydrofluoric acid and setting everything on fire works.

    OK, got it.

    So the “no rules” rule will last exactly as long as you find it funny, and then it’s scorched earth time.

    I’m pretty sure this counts as “trolling your own blog”.

    /Just sayin’, is all.

  49. John Morales says

    trinioler, huh?

    <googles>

    What, a chemistry teacher wouldn’t realise acid could dissolve a bathtub?

    (Kinda hard to suspend disbelief, then and there)

  50. One Thousand Needles says

    Now that anything goes around here, I’m gonna put my feet up on the couch.

    With my shoes on, bwahahaha!

  51. says

    What a thunderstorm! And I just went outside with a sleeping pad and a mosquito head net to have a nap under a spruce because it was so hot and sweaty inside. The thunder and rain started almost as soon as I got comfortable and closed my eyes.

  52. John Morales says

    Owlmirror:

    I’m pretty sure this counts as “trolling your own blog”.

    Heh. Remember the second “survivor” jape?

  54. says

    So the “no rules” rule will last exactly as long as you find it funny, and then it’s scorched earth time.

    Nope. “No rules” lasts as long as it works for the commenters. So it could be permanent.

    Should also be an interesting contrast with Daniel Fincke’s rules.

  55. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    What, a chemistry teacher wouldn’t realise acid could dissolve a bathtub?

    Actually it depends on the material of construction. HF will chew through porcelain (essentially a glass) in nothing flat. But, unless the metal forms strong fluoride complexes, it is a weak acid toward metals (pKa ~ +4, HCl pKa ~0). It won’t touch most plastic.

  57. cicely says

    Good luck with your job, Ing.
    :)
    –

    What a thunderstorm! And I just went outside with a sleeping pad and a mosquito head net to have a nap under a spruce because it was so hot and sweaty inside. The thunder and rain started almost as soon as I got comfortable and closed my eyes.

    If only I thought that that would work here!
    The Husband and I are considering deliberately and maliciously washing the car tomorrow, in an attempt to provoke the sky to drop on us. And, if necessary, to leave it parked with the windows down.
    –

  59. says

    Fincke’s rules are embarrassing. Anyway, we’ll see what happens here I guess. The two big potential problems I see are when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day, and when one stupid troll manages to derail a thread for days on end without saying anything of substance. But yeah, maybe the free market will find a solution for that.

  61. carlie says

    Should also be an interesting contrast with Daniel Fincke’s rules.

    You sly manipulator, you know that’s exactly what to say to get everybody on board with it. :D

  62. carlie says

    The two big potential problems I see are when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day, and when one stupid troll manages to derail a thread for days on end without saying anything of substance.

    The second one I thought about right away – I wonder if we could get most of the “regulars” at least to agree to smack them down quick and hard and then switch to ignore to see if they wither away.

  63. says

    rorschach:

    The two big potential problems I see are when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day…

    PZ, I hope you’ll at least take care of those instances. Even as it was, with kickback happening immediately after that post, others used it against us.

    That is the one instance I can see where editing is necessary.

    Well, that, and when I fuck up a post and want to go back in time to correct it. But you can hardly be expected to wield the power of Time.

    Can you?

  65. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    @ chigau

    A couple of years ago, when there was a scream-fest, a bunch of people hid under the stairs.
    What became of them?

    *Ahem* I was one of them, in fact one of the last to emerge. As for brain snacks, no thanks. It was just nice under the stairs.

    *Checks out blanket fort* Although this is very nice, too. I have with me
    1) Case of champagne,
    2) Cooler full of ice,
    3) Large tray of assorted canapés,
    4) A strong desire not to fight with anyone showing a lick of sense.

    I reserve the right to go after trolls or weasels or other vermin forms, but I hope that occurs in other threads.
    *Settles into corner of fort and spreads velvety blanket over her legs.* Or my feet get cold.
    Canapé anyone? I ordered them myself.

  66. John Morales says

    PZ,

    Should also be an interesting contrast with Daniel Fincke’s rules.

    On that note, I enjoy commenting there almost as much as commenting here, especially under those rules.

    (I need hardly change my style!)

  67. hotshoe says

    Wait, sciblog’s pharyngula comment section is alive once again?

    The “recent comments” sidebar is still broken. And I don’t see anywhere that says what HTML or other editing characters you can use in your comments. But, yeah, people are commenting to PZs new posts.

  68. John Morales says

    Nerd, I take you at your word.

    But, if you were gonna try to use acid (pretty sure lye would work far better) to dissolve a body, and you were gonna use a bathtub as the container, you’d not make such a basic mistake.

  69. carlie says

    On that note, I enjoy commenting there almost as much as commenting here, especially under those rules.

    (I need hardly change my style!)

    John, and I say this in the fondest of ways, I think you will be able to effortlessly test Daniel’s new boundaries to their outermost limits.

  71. says

    Pteryxx 468
    David Marjanović 479 (previous page)

    Theoretically you have the right to install on another machine if one dies, but in practice you have to convince the company first that you should really be allowed.

    Lots of programs allow you to install on two computers. I have Photoshop on my desktop at home, and on my laptop for travelling. My laptop died when I was in Chile – not repairable, no Photoshop disc. I downloaded the program from Adobe, then phoned them to deactivate the dead machine and activate the new one – it turns out it’s actually quite a common problem and they got it sorted really quickly.

  72. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    Can we get a new instance of both TET and TZT where it’s all explained? Because, you know, people can be lazy and shit; having to retiterate could get kind of dull.

  73. A. R says

    Hmmm, considering the the TZT Politburo is currently hunkering down in the bunker (no, you can’t come in, we only have enough Dom Pérignon, Bordeaux, Beluga caviar, oysters, cheese, and Kobe beef for the Politburo members) until the thread war ends over on TZT, I shall deliver an aid package of bacon, tea, and chocolate via airlift.

  74. says

    Well, that, and when I fuck up a post and want to go back in time to correct it.

    I experimented with a WordPress plugin called Ajax Edit Comments for a while, but noone seemed to use it. Let’s you edit or delete your comment for a customizable time period after you posted.

  75. broboxley OT says

    for followers of “true blood” I am getting a huge kick out of Russel, his character’s dessicate nature is awesome

  77. A. R says

    From the Dungaon page:

    The Dungeon has been dissolved. All the inmates are free!

    Fuck.

  78. Wowbagger, Deputy Vice-President (Silencing) says

    IIRC, in Breaking Bad it wasn’t the chemistry teacher who put acid in the bathtub but his partner/offsider.

  79. cicely says

    This sort of thing didn’t work out so well when Marmee tried it in Little Women. Dead birds, scarlet fever….
    –

  80. John Morales says

    A.R., interesting.

    Well, no-one can accuse PZ of going about it in a half-hearted manner, eh?

    (Timidity is for the weak)

  81. ibyea says

    @wowbagger
    Oh yeah, if I remember right, Jesse is a freaking idiot in the first season.

  82. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    But, if you were gonna try to use acid (pretty sure lye would work far better) to dissolve a body, and you were gonna use a bathtub as the container, you’d not make such a basic mistake.

    Nope, sulfuric acid will do a number on the body and not hurt the porcelain in the process. But it would do a number on the cast iron underneath if it reached there due to a crack or spalling of the porcelain. IIRC, the old murder mysteries used quicklime (hydrated calcium oxide, or calcium hydroxide) to dissolve bodies and keep the decomp odor down.

  83. says

    The Dungeon has been dissolved. All the inmates are free!

    The Molly Awards are currently on hiatus.

    We better buy PZ’s books soon, so he can quit his day job…

  84. says

    From the Dungaon page:

    The Dungeon has been dissolved. All the inmates are free!

    Fuck.

    Oh crap.

    Also, seconding this:

    While I’m OK with no rules, new TET’s and TZT’s would be helpful.

    and this:

    The two big potential problems I see are when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day, and when one stupid troll manages to derail a thread for days on end without saying anything of substance.

  85. Sili says

    The Dungeon has been dissolved. All the inmates are free!

    I’m sure John A. Davidson’s progeny will be overjoyed at his resurrection.

  86. A. R says

    I hate to say it, but this whole “no rules, fuck the commentariat” policy feels quite a bit like a child having a temper tantrum. Granted, this is PZ’s blog, so he may fuck it up as he wishes…

  87. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    …I’m here unti we get an influx of trolls and nothing happens.

  90. says

    when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day,

    Tough. I won’t see it, and I wash my hands of any consequences.

    and when one stupid troll manages to derail a thread for days on end without saying anything of substance.

    That’s ongoing. You don’t want me to deal with that crap, I won’t deal with it.

  91. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Good idea, A.R.

    *Faxes Shangri La Hong Kong, Petrus restaurant with order for Dom Pérignon, Bordeaux, Beluga caviar, oysters, cheese, and Kobe beef. Adds order for ice bin of mixed champagnes.*

    It’ll be right along, and I always get it delivered on dry ice, so no worries.

  92. says

    A.R.,

    I sort of feel the same way. I do get why PZ feels the way he does, but… Well, I’m not happy about any of this at all. I really hope this will all blow over soon.
    Regardless, though, unless things go completely apeshit (say a troll invasion happens or something like that) I’ll be here.

  93. carlie says

    Holy fuck, I didn’t realize all the barriers were being broken down.

    Good thing I stashed this set of spears under the blankets. There’s enough for everybody.

  94. A. R says

    Agreed, SG. I’ll flounce when H0gg1e and company show up. Or if D*av*d M*b*s shows up. Or if a massive herd of trolls devastates the blog. And when I flounce, I’m gone for good.

  96. says

    The two big potential problems I see are when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day, and when one stupid troll manages to derail a thread for days on end without saying anything of substance.

    The first of those is a genuine problem. The second, meh, that’s all part of the unmoderated hijinks that PZ is launching. Feed or do not feed, it’s up to us. Deal, or run away. (I’m not sure yet what my choice will be.)

    Seriously, PZ, we do need some recourse for personal info dumps. That shit needs deleting.

  99. A. R says

    Tough. I won’t see it, and I wash my hands of any consequences.

    Too bad the law doesn’t see it that way (AFAIK).

  103. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    @ Nerd #79

    Yes, people did use quicklime and still do. Haigh (English serial killer back in the 1940s) used barrels full of sulpheric acid. It made getting forensic evidence difficult.

  104. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    when personal info about someone gets posted like the other day,

    Tough. I won’t see it, and I wash my hands of any consequences.

    Honestly? This frightens me. My meatspace persona – that is, my professional persona – is kept carefully distinct from my online persona(e). For good reasons.

  105. says

    I won’t see it, and I wash my hands of any consequences.

    But how can you do that, when it’s your blog that it’s posted on? I think that’s problematic.

    Maybe we should have at least a separate email address to reach you on if something like that happens?

  106. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    The Molly Awards are currently on hiatus.

    This, we can handle ourselves.

  108. says

    PZ,

    I understand how you feel and all that, but the release of personal info can have serious real life consequences for people. Sorry, but that is not a game.

  109. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Chigau! My total favs. Pro tip, best butter tarts being made since my grandmother died can be found in Osgoode Hall, Court of Appeal building, Great Hall dining room. They are magnificent.

    *Helps herself to one* Mmmmmm, and coffee.

  110. A. R says

    Honestly? This frightens me. My meatspace persona – that is, my professional persona – is kept carefully distinct from my online persona(e). For good reasons.

    Same is true for me. I cannot afford to have my real life linked to anything I say here.

    pentatomid: I think I might be able to find a few Leica M7s in a storage locker somewhere.

  112. One Thousand Needles says

    The Molly Awards are currently on hiatus.

    Is this a hint that the commenters should take it upon themselves to nominate, organize, and award Mollies?

    Since the whole TAM/sexual harassment thing began, there have been so many excellent comments from people that felt that they finally had a safe space in which to discuss harassment and the status quo. It seems a shame for them to miss out on the recognition they deserve. :(

  113. says

    NO.

    Seriously, I’m fed up. Do you understand that? I’m FUCKING FED UP.

    GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING FED UP.

    You guys want a janitor, nothing more, and I’m tired of entitled snots telling me how to run the place…so you’re on your own. Too many people seem to have the idea that I’m supposed to just indulge their behaviors, no matter how destructive they are to the community.

    So I’ll let the assholes run the show now. Have fun.

  114. John Morales says

    Alethea:

    Seriously, PZ, we do need some recourse for personal info dumps. That shit needs deleting.

    Yeah, but I make it that it’s this sort of shit that pissed PZ off.

    Seriously.

  116. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Same is true for me. I cannot afford to have my real life linked to anything I say here.

    Likewise. In all honesty, I’m weighing the merits of talking to my boss tomorrow about the possibility of my real name and info getting posted here.

    Of course, that will just mean upping security. Beyond what it already is.

  118. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Ibyea: Yes it is.

    *shudders*

    I fear for the future of the people’s republic.

  119. Esteleth, Who Knows How to Use Google says

    Ing, you are correct.

    I’m on the facebook thing. I’ll be back if and when I feel safe here again.

  120. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    *looks at the number of people saying they are terrified of the new set-up*

    We’re gonna need a bigger fort.

    *starts building an addition to the blanket fort*

    Any chance of a cooking space? I imagine it gets expensive to keep ordering out.

  122. A. R says

    Is there any chance of my getting into PET? It appears that I cannot afford to post here anymore.

  123. John Morales says

    OTN:

    Is this a hint that the commenters should take it upon themselves to nominate, organize, and award Mollies?

    What Mollies? :)

    How do you know who is and who ain’t, since there is no accessible official list?

  124. says

    There are no additional security risks. I have not farmed out any duties to others (which would open the door to accessing, for instance, email addresses), and I’m certainly not going to reveal anything to anyone else.

  126. Muse says

    A.R. it takes friending on facebook and dropping a line to the mods. I’ll put you in touch if you have an email you don’t mind telling me [nym]clie42 at google’s email service.

  127. says

    pentatomid: I think I might be able to find a few Leica M7s in a storage locker somewhere.

    Huh? Uhm, what are you talking about? Did I miss something?

  128. says

    Any chance of a cooking space? I imagine it gets expensive to keep ordering out.

    I have a portable stove, some cooking oil, soaked chickpeas and stuff in my backpack… falafel, anyone?

  129. ibyea says

    Well, looks like there will be some exodus. I will try to hold the fort for a while, but if my sanity becomes a casualty, I think I will take refuge in facebook.

  130. A. R says

    Muse: You may use my Pharyngula gmail: adotrtat at gmail.

    pentatomid: Didn’t you mention Kw0k?

  131. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    Remind me, Muse, the facebook thing is set to private, right? I don’t remember if that means people can see if I join it or not.

  134. says

    I think I will take refuge in facebook.

    My experience is very different. My sanity, or what’s left of it, improved significantly since I did away with my facebook altogether. And PET was, last time I looked there, still full of people who barely if at all comment here. But whatever works for you!

  135. says

    Perhaps, John, but there is an important difference in degree between wanting a troll banned or other community standards enforced; and wanting dropped dox to be deleted. People have been nagging PZ to do lots of stuff; he’s pissed off and bloody sick of it. I imagine there’s probably much more in email than we see on threads. OK, so PZ needs a break or a change. Fair enough.

    But there is a minimal level of engagement required if you’re going to have comments on a blog. If PZ doesn’t want to engage even at that minimal level, then he could delegate that one responsibility; or turn off comments altogether.

  136. carlie says

    People were going on and on how they were happy for a safe space and we see how well that lasts. Seriously fucked up.

    What made it a safe space, though? PZ has been fantastic about banning people who were too shitty, but that wasn’t the only thing that made it that way. It’s been very clear that it’s not the kind of “safe space” that’s that way because of being heavily moderated with certain topics being entirely off-limits, but the kind where the majority of people drown out and eviscerate (with evidence!) anyone who is being an asshole in certain ways. It’s been a safe space in that anyone who does shit on the carpet gets yelled at and it’s made clear to everyone that it’s not acceptable to shit on the carpet, not that in keeping the carpet from being shit on in the first place. It’s a safe space because of the tone and attitude PZ makes clear in his posts, in the way that commenters write and respond to each other. I don’t think PZ is going to change his style of posting at all, and if enough people keep up the way they usually do, it should be tolerable.

  137. says

    Can someone tell me how I get into the facebook thingy. Mail me at heavymetaldaydreamer at gmail.com

    A.R.
    I mentioned Kwak. The Belgian amber ale. Not Kwok.

  139. says

    Remind me, Muse, the facebook thing is set to private, right? I don’t remember if that means people can see if I join it or not.

    It’s set to “secret”. No one can see anything (or even search for it) unless they’re in the group (and they have to be invited by a mod to be in the group).

  141. ixchel, the jaguar goddess of midwifery and war ॐ says

    I’m copying the list of Mollies onto the wiki.

    The winner for June is pretty obvious.

    We can start voting for July in a couple days.

    Only question is where.

  142. hotshoe says

    Any chance of a cooking space? I imagine it gets expensive to keep ordering out.

    I have a portable stove, some cooking oil, soaked chickpeas and stuff in my backpack… falafel, anyone?

    Wow, that’s some backpack!

  143. broboxley OT says

    FB is more likely to out you in meatspace than here if you use a reasonable nom du poste and a non work email addy. Also dont post from work so an ip trace wont link back. Other than that dont out yourself to anyone.

  144. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    OK, got it, Muse. Guess I’ll stay her for a while and help ibyea hold the fort, but I’ll keep the facebook group in mind if things take a turn for the ugly.

  145. broboxley OT says

    Stardtuff,
    sorry to disabuse you, some stuff leaks inadvertently out of that space into regular fb space quite a lot depending on the users personal settings.

  146. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    First, thank you, Professor Myers. This is one great blog.

    Do take a break, Professor Myers. I don’t know how you can carry all the load that has developed out of this blog, nevermind the blog itself. And I know that is just part of what you do. Retrenching seems needed and should be done as best suits you. I’m repeating my comment in the Athiests and Lawyers section to say think of it as triage. First, take care of you, and the rest follows.

    Good luck, and thanks again for the fun so far.

  148. carlie says

    My sanity, or what’s left of it, improved significantly since I did away with my facebook altogether.

    You did too? Does it feel fantastic? I do miss being able to keep up with people, but I didn’t realize how much of my mental energy was spent dealing with all the crap surrounding facebook until I was free of it. I would never put it down for anyone else, but what it did in conjunction with my brain just wasn’t right. It probably took two months to stop keeping a running commentary in my head at all times of what about what I was doing would or wouldn’t make a witty status update.

  149. Tethys says

    Well, at least we had the foresight to build to blanket fort.

    I can understand the frustration PZ , but was it really necessary to throw open the dungeon?

    I luckily have several pointy type weapons, and I brought some special heavy-duty blankets to reinforce the walls against trolls.

    *grabs some champagne and bacon sandwiches and hunkers down in the corner*

  150. says

    I’m staying here for now, but I’ll also join the facebook thing. That way I can keep an I on both (and run to safety if need be).

  154. ibyea says

    I think there is a need for the doomsday clock like in that comic book, Watchman. But instead of nuclear annihilation, it is troll annihilation. A critical mass of trolling will happen, and then a hole will be punctured in the cyberspace of this blog, swallowing us all.

  156. says

    rorschach

    My sanity, or what’s left of it, improved significantly since I did away with my facebook altogether.

    Yeah. I nuked my account as soon as someone said “you didn’t answer your phone but you were later online on facebook, what was up with that?”

    That’s simply intolerable.

  159. ibyea says

    @Rev. BigDumbChimp
    A whole lot than you think. In retrospect, it is better if you don’t know. :)

  162. Sili says

    Seriously, I’m fed up. Do you understand that? I’m FUCKING FED UP.

    GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING FED UP.

    You guys want a janitor, nothing more, and I’m tired of entitled snots telling me how to run the place…so you’re on your own. Too many people seem to have the idea that I’m supposed to just indulge their behaviors, no matter how destructive they are to the community.

    So I’ll let the assholes run the show now. Have fun.

    I’m impressed you held out this long. I’d’ve exploded long ago.

    Gonna be interesting to see if there can be more podcasts now. I suspect far too many people will want to complain about the new (lack of) regime.

  168. Sili says

    Those standards and practices no longer apply.

    Well, technically, you don’t get to decide that anymore.

    Isn’t it fun how letting go of the reins works?

  169. Owlmirror says

    If PZ doesn’t want to engage even at that minimal level, then he could delegate that one responsibility; or turn off comments altogether.

    This.

    PZ, if you are really really really that sick of coping with commentators and moderating comments, turn them off. Do it for a week, or a month, or a year, or permanently. Do it on all posts.

    Make that “vacation” a real one. Or even make it a sabbatical, or a semi-retirement. Or a permanent retirement.

    Relax. De-stress. Enjoy the quiet.

  170. carlie says

    Dang, its going to be a rough few weeks until folks realize PZ needs to moderate the blog, including the regulars who stir up unnecessary shit.

    I see two good outcome potentials. One, everything goes well and PZ gets to dial back the time he spends moderating the blog, giving him more free time to do everything int he rest of life. Or, everything goes to hell, and everyone has more appreciation of the job PZ does in keeping this a great place to hang out.

  172. John Morales says

    Silly Sili:

    Well, technically, you don’t get to decide that anymore.

    Since no enforcement by commenters is possible, yes, he does indeed.

  174. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    But do the Standards and Practices still apply?

    To apply, or not to apply, that is the question.

    Liberturdian paradise coming up. Time for reflection.

  176. carlie says

    I have to go to bed and to work tomorrow. I’ve borrowed some of Janine’s pillows to sandbag around the perimeter of the blanket fort, and there’s a box of midnight snacks.*

    *silly to keep stretching the metaphor, but this is my favorite place and I want it to be here and people to be here and everything to work out.

  177. ibyea says

    Guys, at least we should try to keep with the Standards and Practices. It will be hard, but we have to try. I hope it will make this stretch of time less painful. I want it to be less like Gotham during The Dark Knight Rises. :)

  178. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    I want it to be less like Gotham during The Dark Knight Rises. :)

    Nothing that happens here could make that little sense.

  179. says

    ibyea,

    Indeed. As I suggested earlier, I really hope we can keep TET going as a safe haven to relax in. This isn’t going to be easy, but it’ll have to work.

  180. says

    Uhm… Before y’all start talking about The Dark Knight Rises, I haven’t seen it yet, so please avoid spoilers if at all possible.

  181. Owlmirror says

    You know what throws me into a rage?

    PEOPLE TELLING ME HOW TO RUN THE BLOG.

    You’re right, PZ.

    I’m not your boss; not your parent; not part of your family. I can barely say that I even know you. I am no-one at all and nothing at all.

    You do exactly whatever it is you want to do.

  182. ibyea says

    @dysomniac
    I was talking more about the anarchy (I suck at detecting plot holes, so I don’t know what makes no sense), but sure, that too. :)

  184. says

    Sure, the regulars here can keep with the Standards and Practices, but what happens when word gets out to the trolls? We can’t make them follow the (former) rules. As soon as the trolls come marching in, this isn’t going to be a place to relax in; it’s going to be a shit hole.

  186. John Morales says

    StarStuff:

    it’s going to be a shit hole.

    I prefer the phrase “a target-rich environment”. :)

  190. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    I swear I thought the Lawyer said he needed to see Dennis Markuze in the beginning of Breaking Bad tonight.

  191. Part-Time Insomniac, Zombie Porcupine Nox Arcana Fan says

    I prefer the phrase “a target-rich environment”. :)

    I wish I had that kind of optimism.

  192. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    *adds bulk bedding materials to fort*

    Hrm. How about a garden?

  193. Tethys says

    but what happens when word gets out to the trolls?

    Killfile, lots and lots of killfile.

  194. says

    I think the fort could do with a vegetable patch. That way we could become somewhat self-sufficient. Maybe we could even get some chickens.

  196. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    Morales, you are welcome to click the link I provided if you are really unclear about what anarchism means. I have no intention of playing any further into your games.

  198. John Morales says

    dysomniak:

    Morales, you are welcome to click the link I provided if you are really unclear about what anarchism means.

    Why do you imagine I need your link to know what it means?

    (You do realise there have been extensive discussions over the years about the concept, and that a once-regular commenter and OM is an anarchist?)

    I have no intention of playing any further into your games.

    Weak excuse for your failing to justify your little snipe.

    Bah.

  199. Janine: Fucking Dyke Of Rage Mountain says

    Maybe we could even get some chickens.

    *eyes the Pullet Patrol™*

    **the Pullet Patrol™ eyes back while snacking on grog soaked pellets**

  200. dysomniak, darwinian socialist says

    John, you are an intelligent person and you can contribute a lot of value when you so choose. But you also seem to have a tendency to troll any available target when you’re bored which makes you a real piece of shit in my book.

  201. John Morales says

    dysomniak, your evasiveness is futile; you sniped and now you’re all indignant because I asked you to support your opinion.

  202. ibyea says

    @dysomniak
    While what you say about John is true, I don’t think he was trolling this time around. I guess he asked that question because he did read it in the colloquial sense. Also, TZT. Please?

  203. says

    John and Dysomniak,
    I don’t care whether there are rules or not, but some here have erected a nice little fortress and are having cake, so please take it to TZT or let it go, okay.

  204. Nutmeg says

    So, I’ve installed Greasemonkey and gotten the script for Freethoughtblogs killfile. I still don’t see the little thing beside commenters’ names that would allow me to killfile them. Any idea what I’m doing wrong?

    Not that I’m planning to killfile anyone right away, but it’s a good idea to be prepared.

  205. John Morales says

    ibyea, sorry.

    I’ll try to restrict my combativeness on TET to true trolls, out of respect for you and others.

  207. Tethys says

    Any idea what I’m doing wrong?

    Make sure that the script is enabled. Sometimes you have to click a box and reload the page to make it work.

  212. firstapproximation says

    I’m watching Breaking Bad shortly. I think I’ve been inspired by Walt White.

    Yeah… not the best role model.

    What, a chemistry teacher wouldn’t realise acid could dissolve a bathtub?

    *Breaking Bad spoiler alert*

    Actually, he did realize that. It was his partner who didn’t and this made for some, umm, interesting results.

  213. Sili says

    Since no enforcement by commenters is possible, yes, he does indeed.

    Noöne said anything about enforcement. We can have standards and practices alright. Even if we’re powerless to do anything about it.

    You know, like Republan regulations.

  216. Sili says

    Uhm… Before y’all start talking about The Dark Knight Rises, I haven’t seen it yet, so please avoid spoilers if at all possible.

    Too bad. There are no rules left to protect you.

  217. Sili says

    firstapproximation
    29 July 2012 at 11:41 pm

    Heeeeyyyyyy!!

    Where did you come from?!

  218. Sili says

    Sili, you tempt me, but I resist the temptation.

    You do, yes. Much in the way Paula Deen resists butter.

  220. says

    Up until a few months ago I was the lead moderator on a busy group poliblog, something I’d been doing for quite a few years, so I know about the never-ending stream of email notifications entailed. I had it configured to only send me the automoderation notifications (we had a tighter moderation configuration than Pharyngula does), not everything, so if PZ has been skimming email notifications on every single thread, that just staggers me, and I’m not at all surprised that he needs a break from it.

    When we decided that, as a blogging collective, the time had come for the group blog to cease publishing, and we closed comments on everything but the farewell thread, those email notifications went from a flood to a trickle, and a weight I didn’t even realise I’d been carrying was lifted. When we finally closed comments on the farewell thread, that was it – about 7o% of my daily inbox traffic had disappeared. What I get in comparison from my own personal blog is easy to handle by comparison.

    In retrospect, my emotional health would have benefited substantially by taking regular breaks from monitoring those moderation emails over the years.

    PZ, I wish you well as you work through this, and I don’t envy you one little bit.

  224. firstapproximation says

    Heeeeyyyyyy!!

    Where did you come from?!

    PET. Wanted to see how the revolution was going. I was always involved in the conspiracy theory with Molly winners and reverse vampires to overthrow Tyrant Poopyhead. Now that PZ has abdicated, the time has come for the Utopian Anarchist People’s Republic of Pharyngula.

    Now, where did I put that guillotine….

  226. birgerjohansson says

    PZ
    Can’t you set up a sinister AI that will patrol the blog and eliminate trolls in interesting ways?

    Haedline “an unusual number of people have been electrocuted by their own keyboards recently…”

    — — — — —
    “I’ve got an alt med asshole there telling me how useless vaccinations are”

    (notices Bat-signal!)

  230. John Morales says

    birgerjohansson, that faux-chicken review to which you linked looks promising indeed.

  231. Beatrice says

    I’m glad I’ll be without internet for ten days. This is painful to watch.

    (I’m here until tomorrow evening and then I’m off to Italy.)

  234. dianne says

    Re no moderation: I’m in the “this could get ugly fast” camp. Historically, people are absolutely crap at policing themselves. Can’t think of any examples where it’s really worked well. Maybe spot checks instead of continual monitoring of every comment? Just to make sure there isn’t some extreme craziness going on? Also, is the chief poopy one going to ever renew this thread? If not, it could get irrelevant fast.

  235. John Morales says

    dianne, it could, but it hasn’t yet.

    As for the thread, every 500 comments a new page automagically appears.

  236. dianne says

    Yeah, but the thread’ll be on page 592 of the blog pretty soon. I suppose with the link that’s manageable too. Oh, well, it was fun while it lasted. I’m not flouncing, but I’ll likely fade.

  237. birgerjohansson says

    Inspector Javert???

    It reminds me of Stewie Griffin reading the bible: “I like this “God” fellow, he is so wonderfully evil”.

    A retroactive apology for having another link to David Frum.
    I just wanted to show that there are some Republicans with the guts to call out obvious absurdities by the own camp
    -unfortunately most of them are intellectual cowards who favor group think.

    I wonder if there is some inherent factor in the party structure (beyond campaign money) that favors silence. The emergence of the Tea Party at the primaries obviously act as a ratchet for negative selection but it cannot be the whole story.

  238. says

    It reminds me of Stewie Griffin reading the bible: “I like this “God” fellow, he is so wonderfully evil”.

    Yes, one of Seth MacFarlane’s brighter moments – when he’s not making fun of oppressed groups.

    I still watch his shows though. Enjoy the good bits and get angry of the bad bits.

  239. sisu says

    Hey PZ, I met you at CON. I hope you liked the sandwich I made you. :)

    It was really great to have someplace where you could actually read the lower half of the internet – a safe space, even! – but I can’t imagine the endless hours this must’ve taken you. Take the time you need. FWIW, I’ll still be reading here, even if just the top half depending on how things go.

    And I hope to say hi to you again at the MN Atheists con next month.

  240. leighshryock says

    I saw a lot of talk about D&D upthread that kinda died out.

    My group’s about to start in the Neverwinter campaign. The whole thing should play out like a ‘choose your own adventure’ book, but with a person guiding the interactions to make sure that it works.

    Basically, all of the factions are written – but not fully. And there are some alliances, enemies, etc. and it’s how the players interact with them that will decide the fate of Neverwinter.

    Very political game, we’ll see how the group enjoys it.

  241. says

    Unflouncing for a very special PSA

    I see the Great Pharyngula Upheaval of 2012 is still going on. For those of you who would like to join PET at this juncture, please email your facebook contact information and Pharyngula ‘nym to darkhearts.blog@gmail.com. As has been pointed out, it is a secret group, so you will not be able to find it (or me) through a search– you need one of the mods to let you in.

    A couple of things to note:
    1) At the moment, I am not letting lurkers in. If your email starts with “you probably don’t recognize my ‘nym…” or “I don’t really post…” don’t even bother; I’m not going to reply. The other mods may feel differently, and if so they are welcome to deal with you how they see fit.

    (Can you tell I’ve had a shitty weekend?)

    2) Please, be patient with me today. I’m at work at the moment and I cannot fulfill any of my mod duties via the mobile app.

  245. Dhorvath, OM says

    He used to be. Even popped up in chat once or twice. Time changes all things though. Even this will pass. Don’t have enough time of my own to pitch in, I can hardly observe any longer, and that’s okay too. I do have fond memories of the way I think things were, but I suspect they are wrong in many ways.

  248. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Ahh!

    Why Facebook? Damn Facebook!

  249. Beatrice says

    Yeah, Facebook. *sigh*

    I gladly erased my real_name account, after not using it for years (I naively thought it would automatically be erased after long disuse). If the situation here doesn’t improve in the next couple of weeks, I will create a new account to use just for Pharyngula group. Not looking forward to that, but I would find it even worse if I lost this place completely.

  250. says

    For those of you who are concerned about what to do if there is an overt breach of privacy while I’m shirking my janitorial duties, I have a solution. I’ve given my wife editorial power here, so contact her and she can clean up any emergency eruptions of chaos. She has a gmail account under the name “gjerness”. Please only use it if it is urgent.

    I have considered appointing people to do some comment management. It won’t work, and if you think about it, it’s obvious why. If someone has the power to edit troll comments, they have the power to examine the comments of every single person posting here, and extract email addresses and IP #s. You want to worry about breach of privacy risks, there’s a big one. The only people we can have doing that are people who are trustworthy, completely accountable, and who could probably beat me up and get the passwords out of me anyway.

    There’s just one person, and no, she’s not into janitorial work either. So only contact her at gjerness at gmail.com if there is a comment that absolutely must be cleaned up as soon as possible.

  252. Bernard Bumner says

    Thanks to the Vice-Janitor. Thanks also to PZ.

    Having to attend to the constant spills and demands of Pharyngula must be a lot like having a small baby that never grows up. (Sometimes, you have to get a baby-sitter in whilst you go off to do adult things and remember how to communicate in sentences with real words.)

  253. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ PZ

    By magic?

    Sure. Or I thought you were all going to do stuff like cooperate and settle disagreements by polite reason.
    I’ve got my fingers crossed hoping to see new emergent behaviors appear

    .

    Yes! Exactly!

    @ rorschach

    My sanity, or what’s left of it, improved significantly since I did away with my facebook altogether.

    Same here.

    {theophontes shorts facebook shares}

    @ ixchel

    [Mollies] Only question is where.

    WWPZD? (SRSLY!)

    @

    Markita

    [ebil tardigrade]

    Hehe… ce moi.

    @ ianne

    Re no moderation

    Read TZT … we’ve been developing techniques to hide messages in plain site.

    @ Audley

    Keep well. I’m staying on to fight the good fight.

    @ PZ

    No worries. You deserve a break. You have created a truly wonderful space for all of us. The least we can do is keep things on an even keel as you take a well deserved rest. I have grown immensely thanks to you. Thank you!

  255. says

    PZ.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t blame you for not wanting to spend all that time moderating the thousands of comments dropping in on this blog every day.

    It is good to know there’s an emergency report option though.

  256. says

    PZ,

    Far be it from me to tell anybody how to run their site (it’s not like I’m any good at that kind of stuff), but may I offer up a thought I had? Perhaps it’s already been considered. Perhaps some of the other bloggers on FtB (like Ed Brayton, for instance) could also help with emergency stuff like privacy breaches, etc. Not that I trust too many of them myself. Just a thought from somebody you don’t really know, so give it exactly the consideration it’s worth (which is very little).

    Thanks.

  257. Beatrice says

    PZ, have a nice janitorial-duties-free holiday.

    All the discussions about who is at fault for what aside, you have at least as much right as anyone else here to take a break from Pharyngula. More, since it’s your blog in the first place.

    Thanks for making sure the absolute emergencies can be taken care of. Many thanks to Trophy Wife.

  258. Pteryxx says

    Read TZT … we’ve been developing techniques to hide messages in plain site.

    How about linking to the relevant parts of the discussion or quoting the posts here?

  259. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Thank you, PZ.

    Have a fun break.

  260. Tethys says

    Thank you PZ, both for providing this fabulous blog and space, and making arrangements to protect us from those who think being an asshole on the internet is fun.

    I hope you enjoy your break, and come back rested and refreshed.

  261. mythbri says

    I started commenting here because PZ and most of the regulars made it a safe space to do so. I hope that this remains a safe space while PZ takes a break, but if it doesn’t, I’m gone and not coming back.

    I’ve been truly impressed by the level of passion and intelligence present in the comments section of this blog, especially with regard to issues I care deeply about. So while it lasts, I’d just like to thank you all for that, at least.

  264. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Theophontes:

    Yes! Exactly!

    Agreed, that is exactly what we need to do to realize the ФНР.

  265. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ mythbri

    I hope that this remains a safe space while PZ takes a break, but if it doesn’t, I’m gone and not coming back.

    I hope it doesn’t come to this. I don’t really think it will. In a way I even look forward to the battles we may have before us. This may clear the air for a long time to come and lay much to rest. (Conflict is not necessarily a bad thing, though I fully understand it is not everyone’s cup of tea.) Please check in from time to time, even if it looks bad for a while.

  266. Tethys says

    WTF, my comment thanking PZ seems to have disappeared. I can’t have been banned overnight due to the new anarchy rules, and there weren’t any links so again, WTF?

  267. cicely says

    I have a portable stove, some cooking oil, soaked chickpeas and stuff in my backpack… falafel, anyone?

    Wow, that’s some backpack!

    Standard Adventurer issue, sounds like to me. We aren’t even in Heward’s Handy Haversack territory, yet!
    :D
    –

    *silly to keep stretching the metaphor, but this is my favorite place and I want it to be here and people to be here and everything to work out.

    This.
    –

    Having to attend to the constant spills and demands of Pharyngula must be a lot like having a small baby that never grows up.

    There PZ was, toolin’ down the road in his Phord Pharyngula with a load of car-poolers (who may kick in a bit for gas, but don’t pay for wear and tear). He has a few rules for the passengers: don’t get blood on the seat cushions, don’t smear shit on the windows, seat belts must be worn—stuff like that. A fight breaks out in the back seats—again!—for the nth time!—and he announces that he plans to pull the car over and disembark the apparent catalyst in this and previous fights. He doesn’t care who started it, but he’s going to finish it! Protests arise; it isn’t AC’s fault! Is so! Teams are chosen, accusations and counter-accusations fly—xe called me a bad name first! But only because xe won’t stop touching me! And anyway, xe pulled my hair! Xe wiped his boooger on me! Fists fly, and now there’s blood spattering every-fuckin’-where, and who’s going to be left with the cleaning bill??? Guess!!!

    Concurrently with which, other passengers are industriously backseat driving. Arguing among themselves about the backseat driving. With an audible *snap!*, PZ’s temper breaks; he pulls the car over, throws the keys in the backseat, and tells them that if they think they can drive this thing so much better than he’s doing, they can damned well do it themselves!—slams the car door shut and walks away. Freedom!!!
    –
    *appreciation* for the Trophy Wife. It’s a thankless job….
    –

  268. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ cicely

    I am sure we’ll sort this out internally, I would be more concerned at nasties showing up.

  271. ChasCPeterson says

    amusking metaphor you got there, cicely.
    Your characterization of the people who have been trying to rationally discuss this very real problem for the blog we all enjoy as squabbling children is noted.

  273. ChasCPeterson says

    now we’re talkin’.

    Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law

  275. says

    Here’s an update on the Public TV executives in Alabama that were fired after they refused to air revisionist Christian history “documentaries.”

    …Mass resignations from APT’s attendant committees followed the firings of former Executive Director Allan Pizzato and Deputy Director Pauline Howland, and last last week a pair of petitions carrying approximately 114,000 signatures were delivered to the APT headquarters to protest the “misleading and hateful programming” APT is considering airing….

    The programming in question is David Barton’s “American Heritage Series,” which infuses Christian themes and motivations in tales of American history. Barton is one of the most public, and controversial, historians in the nation, and is considered “a key bridge between the mainstream political right and radical-right religious ideology,” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, whom Barton once advised, has said that he “almost wished” that Americans should be “forced — forced at gunpoint no less — to listen to every David Barton message.”

    While the APT has not yet aired any of Barton’s documentaries, the petitions shared concerns that the programming had even been discussed.

    “I’m disappointed that APT is even considering broadcasting David Barton’s slanted, misinformed history of America,” said Rev. Darryl Kiehl, a local pastor who helped deliver the signatures. “Since our nation’s founding, Christians have fought for justice, equality and the common good, and Barton’s work appears to ignore that. His revisionist history is unworthy of public television.”…

  276. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Groan

    A Dutchman has built a replica of Noah’s Ark to biblical proportions, following a dream his homeland would be flooded.
    Johan Huibers, a wealthy businessman, used the ancient measurement of the cubit — the length of a man’s arm from elbow to fingertips — to build the vessel to the dimensions specified in the book of Genesis.
    The finished craft — which has just been opened to the public on the Merwede River in the Dutch town of Dordrecht — is 300 cubits long (about 450 feet or 137 meters), 50 cubits wide (about 70 feet or 21 meters), and 30 cubits high (about 45 feet or 14 meters).
    Huibers has filled his ark, which will operate as a “Bible museum,” with life-sized plastic animals and an aviary of live birds to give visitors more to interact with.
    “We want to tell people about God,” Huibers told AFP. “We wanted to build something that can help explain the Bible in real terms.”

  277. says

    Rev. BDC
    Well that’s whole lot of money and resources that could have neeb spent a lot better. The boat’s looking good, though.

  280. Beatrice says

    Why women (in parts of US, at least) don’t report rape, reason #487257754.

  281. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    “Sexual Assault Victims Charged Up To $1,200 In Wisconsin For Cost Of Their Rape Kits”

    What? Just… WHAT???

    That’s over a grand in victim blaming. *shakes head*

  283. Pteryxx says

    random rant warning: the hell with all abusers, especially mine.

    —

    Apparently I internalized how I don’t deserve good things, because of having multiple panic attacks over… a collectible card game. ‘come play with us!’ ‘oh, I never learned how.’ why? because when my abuser was playing, I wasn’t allowed to learn. I wasn’t allowed to look at or touch the cards. I *might* be allowed to WATCH if I behaved and didn’t ask any questions; and if he was winning.

    So now, many years later, I can’t even LOOK at a pack of cards or walk into a game store. Never mind that I saved out of my grocery money for this, I’m a grown-up and nobody can stop me. He stopped me a fucking decade ago.

  285. Pteryxx says

    Thanks StarStuff. I’m so pissed off that I’m trying to make imaginary game stats for a card based on that picture.

  286. Tethys says

    Pteryxx

    *hugs, and m&m’s, and cuteness*

    I hate that aspect of PTSD. I guess that I hate all the aspects of PTSD, but the strong feelings years after the fact tend to make me all ragey and unhappy at the same time.

    Maybe we could come up with a Pharyngula-The Gathering card game?

  287. ImaginesABeach says

    Wow. I took a short break from TET over the weekend. I missed some stuff, apparently.

  288. One Thousand Needles says

    Maybe we could come up with a Pharyngula-The Gathering card game?

    That should be easy. No rules!

  290. says

    omg, how are there not more hits taken out on difficult ebay buyers?

    I use hyperbole, of course. That would be a very bad thing to do. But this is my first truly hostile buyer and the ****ing **** of a **** singlehandedly lowered my perfect feedback score for something I absolutely could not control. She was convinced, convinced I tell you, that I was out to rip her off for her $3. Apparently I missed the part of the eBay rules where “ships by parcel post” is actually code for “I will walk this item all the way to your house and hand-deliver it to your happy ass”.

  291. birgerjohansson says

    Considering that the Flood myth is a pagan story* that was shoehorned into the Jewish corpus of mythology during the Babylonian captivity -and poorly written/edited as well- it is the meme analog to herpes simplex.
    It is crappy, but you cannot get rid of it.

    *Sumerians had real reasons to fear floods, just look at the topographic map.
    — — — — — — — — — — —
    My Ehvil Twin would be happy to police the site for you :-)
    “Respect my authoritaaah!”
    (Thud! Whack!)

  293. Amblebury says

    Pteryxx – Damn that sucks. I hate that. The opportunity to enjoy life’s simplest pleasures tainted by the actions of someone whose opinion you value not at all. It’s so wrong, and also so real for PTSD sufferers/abuse survivors and victims.

    You have my understanding and support – I wish I could do more.

    __

    Kristinc – that’s why I never pay much attention to those online reviews. One bad apple CAN spoil the whole bunch. Still, it’s a pain to see your well-deserved rep. screwed with like that. Grr. (Also, I’m now the proud owner of a glorious Deco drinks/tea trolley. A steal from “Stan’s 2nd Hand City. Cash Only”)

    —

    Imaginesabeach – Yeah. You might say that ;)

  298. says

    Pteryxx, Tethys, I empathize. PTSD is so annoying and disruptive that I often find myself grasping for words when trying to explain how annoying and disruptive it is. Like having a pleasant day off when some random sound sends a spike of fear through your body and you don’t know why, but suddenly you feel the need to put on all your coats at one time.

    Er, that’s what happens to me anyway. Maybe the wear-all-your-clothes thing is idiopathic.

  301. Ogvorbis says

    Pterryx and Tethys:

    You have my sympathy. I sort of know some of a little bit of what you are going through.

  306. Sili says

    Hey, we seem to have crossed posts.

    How so?

    And done! Damn, but this laptop is slow.

  307. says

    Uhm, ignore the ‘crossed posts’ thingy in my last comment. That was meant to go somewhere else. Oops.
    Anyway. Thanks, Sili.

  309. ImaginesABeach says

    Boy, people here in the US are touchy about their guns. A FB friend had a status that said “Remember Colorado. Remember that 65 million legal gun owners killed zero people yesterday.” My response: “which doesn’t mean that a legally owned gun didn’t kill anyone yesterday. Millions of licensed drivers didn’t kill anyone yesterday either, but almost certainly a licensed driver was involved in a deadly crash yesterday.” I thought I was pointing out faulty reasoning, but within 10 minutes, 2 people stopped being my friend.

  310. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    @ Markita Linda

    Yes, that Osgoode Hall. The Great Hall dining room is open to the public, by the way, so you could go help yourself. Court usually breaks sometime between noon and starts by two, so lunch is served then. Also there is usually coffee and butter tarts in the mornings before court. I’m not sure in summer as the court takes a break but there should be information that website or that of the Court of Appeal for Ontario.

    Beautiful building, too. One of my favourite courts as I felt I was a “real” lawyer if I argued there.

  311. carlie says

    Hello, all. I’m here to fluff the pillows and pass around some company chicken*, and also share an uplifting (if ultimately unsatisfying) story of standing up for yourself at the Olympics.

    *It’s comfort food, don’t judge. Line the bottom of a casserole dish with boneless chicken of your choice. Add a can of cream of chicken soup and a can of cream of celery soup. Top with dry stuffing. Cover with foil. Bake. The soups will get absorbed into the stuffing and it will be one big delicious gooey carby fatty mess.

  312. leighshryock says

    @ImaginesABeach:

    I thought I was pointing out faulty reasoning, but within 10 minutes, 2 people stopped being my friend.

    Think of it as thinning out the people who weren’t really friends to begin with.

  314. Dhorvath, OM says

    Carlie,
    I will thank you to keep the foul food and just share the pillows over here. I don’t think I should comment on the Olympics.

  315. broboxley OT says

    ImaginesABeach, well that is faulty reasoning. After all you cant get out of the car, aim it in the direction of whom you want to kill and hit them with any reliability at all.

  316. broboxley OT says

    dang it? why doesnt my close tag less than|/snark|greater than sign work?

  317. carlie says

    kristinc – oo, cheesy! Also I usually glop some green beans on the side. :)

    Dhorvath – some meatloaf, maybe?

  318. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    *directs many workers with crates*

    Food’s in. I thought I may as well get more champagne and a variety of red wine for those who prefer it.

    *starts arranging fresh selection of canapés on a tray*

    I would try the company chicken, by the way, but my cardiologist says if my diet induces heart failure in him, it will be bad for me too, in the long run, so no company chicken. *Sighs*

  319. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    carlie

    Are you using only the opening carat?

    </snark

    if you use both, it disappears ……<—- see?

  320. Dhorvath, OM says

    I don’t think I could do meatloaf either. Got any nachos? Hell on that, I will run out and grab some to share.

  321. carlie says

    Lyn,
    Hm, I do have some carrots and onions that have been slow-roasted with a little olive oil and honey and mixed with some quinoa.

  322. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *heads off Pullet Patrol™ after those with chicken recipes using grog soaked corn*

  324. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    *The ladies are OK with nameless fowl, or fowl which must not be named*

  325. carlie says

    They are probably a little bummed out right now,” Herman Leung, an analyst at Susquehanna Financial Group, said in a telephone interview from his San Francisco office.

    Because they are worth ONLY 12 billion today, instead of 13 like yesterday. Where’s that world’s smallest violin?

    Nerd – the chickens are taunting me.

  326. anarchy69 says

    I went to fap over my dungeon entry and I realized it’s been dissolved. Does this mean I can post now, if I don’t troll?

  327. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Hm, I do have some carrots and onions that have been slow-roasted with a little olive oil and honey and mixed with some quinoa.

    *Faints*
    *Recovers*

    That sounds so wonderful. But here is why I’m such fun when it comes to food. I also have to go no carb for the diabetes. Did I mention the food allergies and the lactose intolerance? Oh, and of course there’s what I like and dislike. So other than that, really, I’m a snap to cook for.

    Yes, I was just talking smack when I said I would have butter tarts. I used to, but not in about 12 years. Since that unpleasantness with the heart attack/diabetes/food allergy thing. Did I mention drug allergies?

  329. carlie says

    Quinoa is low carb and high protein and fiber, if that helps any. Wait… *digs through cabinet*

    I have soba noodles and miso paste and dashi pellets – soup?

    I feel for you on the allergies – Child the Younger is allergic to both peanuts AND tree nuts, so that’s a joy.

  330. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Nerd – the chickens are taunting me.

    Here’s some grog soaked corn *hand over bowl of corn*. Toss it their way, and they will soon forgot about what riled them up.

  331. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Carlie

    That’s a hard set of allergies to deal with. I have that too, except I can tolerate some of the tree nuts. I also can’t tolerate tomatoes or bananas, mold (blue cheese).

    The carbs are in the cooked carrots and the honey. Quinoa I have heard of and can’t get here, so never tried it. Soba is too high in carb for my diet, but a very good alternative in general.

    You are being so nice, but really, cooking for me is like threading a needle in the middle of an earthquake. And when you are done, everyone says, “But we don’t NEED to embroider now! There was an earthquake!”

  332. ChasCPeterson says

    I went to fap over my dungeon entry and I realized it’s been dissolved. Does this mean I can post now, if I don’t troll?

    That made me laugh.
    yes, apparently, there are No Rules!

  333. carlie says

    Oh, I should smack myself in the head. I kept thinking “gluten” rather than carb, which is why I started fixating on other grain alternatives.

    Tomatoes? I has a huge sad for you. :(

    Holy crap – I went looking for drunk muppet chickens (as one does), and found kermit interviewing hanna hart. I just died of cute.

  334. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Nice visit, guys. I see a cloud on the horizon so to speak, but I will be back after serious shopping.

    Bye all

  335. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Speaking of dungeons, I tried to get a snapshot of it as of yesterday, but Google Cache seems to be updated as of today.

  336. anarchy69 says

    Woo! This is awesome. My only regret is that the phrase “proud angry masturbator” no longer exists on this site.

  338. says

    Lyn M., fabulous! That’s one of my and the SO’s favourite desserts — which we have once every few years due to calorie counts. I’m definitely going to take him there. To think I sat next to the building eating some fresh deli food for lunch last week and didn’t know there was a dining room in there…. And if it’s for civil servants, it will be subsidized.

    Let me know if you ever come to town. *starts some wine chilling*

  339. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    anarchy69
    30 July 2012 at 8:52 pm
    Woo! This is awesome. My only regret is that the phrase “proud angry masturbator” no longer exists on this site.

    Well congrats, you just changed that.

  340. ibyea says

    Well, one day after dungeon release, it doesn’t seem so bad. Of course, it is just one day, so I don’t know.

  341. Wowbagger, Titillated Victorian Gentleman says

    There’s actually a part of me that welcomes the returned of the banned assholes. If for no other reason than a history lesson for those who weren’t around to see them in action the first time.

  343. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Trying to get to bed early, which means getting the Redhead to bed early. And she is talking to her talky parents…*Sigh*

  344. ChasCPeterson says

    unless you’re the same as Andrew69 or whatever, in which case fuck off, in my opinion.

  345. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Re dungeon clearing: Some slimepitters are gloating elsewhere in the cyberverse that the dungeon-clearling means that PZ has jumped to the slimepit side.

    *snickers, guffaw, chuckle*

    So, what’s actually happening?

    Why yes I *AM* too lazy to click back a few pages, why do you ask?

  347. Nutmeg says

    Illuminata: PZ got tired of dealing with commenter disputes, banning, cleanup, etc., so he’s stopped paying attention to the comments. And dissolved the Dungeon, and stopped awarding Mollies. We’re on our own for now. No rules, anarchy, all that.

    Lots of people are joining PET in case it gets ugly here. Audley’s email is upthread if you want to send her an email asking to join.

  348. CT says

    I have celiac disease. I win all the food wars. Word. Somebody go make me a decent beer that doesn’t cost $10 a bottle.

  349. carlie says

    Illuminata:

    There was another fight, PZ got fed up, he said he was leaving us to our own devices for awhile because everyone kept telling him what to do (and it was all contradictory). He is taking a break.

  351. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Somebody go make me a decent beer that doesn’t cost $10 a bottle.

    . . . define “beer” . . . .

  352. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Understood. Can’t at all say I blame him.

    Break away, PZ. Let me know if I can send some beer your way.

  354. says

    StarStuff @275, don’t you remember when it came out that Sarah Palin, as governor of Alaska, had decided that women reporting rapes had to pay $1,300 for an evidence-gathering kit? I tried to imagine what would be in it other than some cotton swabs, preservative gel in phials, and some plastic bags. Without the immediately gathered evidence there would be little chance of convicting a rapist.

  356. CT says

    . . . define “beer” . . . .

    bitter frothy goodness, best when cold, sorry, the white trash genes, they BURRRRRRRRRRRN. I’d be willing to try somethign else if someone could reassure me it isn’t 98% sweet nastiness.

    Redbridge is okay if I want just that beer taste but, you know, budweiser. lol

  357. ibyea says

    Haha, yeah, hoggling, I remember that. It was a bit disturbing, yet amusing at the same time.

  358. CT says

    CT – that sucks. Want a shrimp and mint spring roll with vinegar sauce?

    sounds lovely! Also, Diabetes, so no carbs, but I love spring rolls if I can find them not full of noodles(carbs). Love to roll things in steamed lettuce too.

  359. CT says

    Lots of people are joining PET in case it gets ugly here.

    what the hell is PET? Why do I feel like I’m in an episode of Torchwood?

  360. CT says

    [meta] why is so much beer made so sweet? why why why? also, belgian beer, gluten free, $9 a bottle, so not worth it.

  361. Dhorvath, OM says

    CT, you can blame me for the sweet beers. I wants the malty frothy goodness.

  362. ibyea says

    @CT
    Because PET is Pharyngula’s secret organization created to defend the world from trolls and aliens. ;)

  363. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    also, belgian beer, gluten free, $9 a bottle, so not worth it.

    because its belgian or because its gluten free belgian?

    Just curious – I work for a belgian brewery PT.

    And yes – what the hell is PET?

  365. carlie says

    The NBC commentator just used the word “ginormous”. Really, NBC?

    The US men’s gymnastics team is going down in flames. Just in the little time I’ve been watching, they’ve had one guy fall off the pommel horse, one guy hit his legs and crotch twice on the pommel horse, one guy step out of bounds landing off the vault, and another guy land right on his butt off the vault.

  366. CT says

    I work for a belgian brewery PT.

    Really? you win.

    It was gluten free belgian beer. Never drank ‘fancy’ beer until diagnosed so have no way to compare. It kinda just tasted average. For $9 I can get a six pack of the budweiser redbridge stuff.

    CT, you can blame me for the sweet beers. I wants the malty frothy goodness.

    blegh.

    Because PET is Pharyngula’s secret organization created to defend the world from trolls and aliens. ;)

    you win the internets.

  367. Dhorvath, OM says

    What is wrong with ginormous? (I do this a lot. More than I think I do in all probability.)

  368. cicely says

    amusking metaphor you got there, cicely.
    Your characterization of the people who have been trying to rationally discuss this very real problem for the blog we all enjoy as squabbling children is noted.

    Chas: Now it’s being discussed rationally. That’s not what was happening at the first, when PZ first commented about AC’s recurring proximity to strife. A feel that my analogy stands.

    In any case, I was responding to:

    Having to attend to the constant spills and demands of Pharyngula must be a lot like having a small baby that never grows up.

    So, Chas—In your opinion, being likened to a car-full of squabbling kids is in some way worse than being likened to small babies that never grow up? Noted.
    –
    *hugs* for Pteryxx. You have my sympathies.
    –

  372. CT says

    @broboxley I’m a Poor at heart. I can afford $10 but won’t pay that much for average beer. If I tasted something amazing, then I’d go for it as a treat or something. Yes, my dear-old-dad introduced me to boilermakers. I’ve tried it. Nasty. I like beer for the taste of beer. If I wanna get drunk, I drink cheap wine.

  373. broboxley OT says

    on Olympic coverage
    women’s beach volleyball. True atheletes, endurance, skill and great hand eye co-ordination.

    regular woman’s volleyball.

    woman’s field hockey (when is lacrosse going in?)

    women’s judo
    shit, Im starting to see a pattern. Any of the men’s stuff have pro leagues that are more interesting. Except for winter olympic hockey

  374. CT says

    “squabbling kids and aggressive back-seat drivers”

    same thing when you have teens that drive — squabbling aggressive back-seat kid drivers.

  375. andrewv696 says

    @Dhorvath, OM,

    There you are.

    You probably may not remember our conversation last year in which I stated something to the effect that I could usually tell how a child was going to turn out after meeting them.

    I subsequently withdrew the assertation, not because you said it was arrogant, but because something was bothering me about that statement.

    Anyway, one issue with that assumption of mine is that after thinking about it, I realized I had “cooked the books”, because I knew the parents of the children before they were born.

    Even though I was right in the general outcomes of most of the children in such things as educational success, it was pretty sloppy thinking to believe that I could extrapolate that to all children I met.

    Long winded way to say yes I agree with you, but there it is.

  378. ImaginesABeach says

    Back in the Good Old Days before central air conditioning, houses were built to maximize airflow and breezes. My house was apparently built (in the late 1970s) to minimize airflow and breezes. It’s 75 degrees Fahrenheit outside and 85 degrees inside. And we cannot make ice as fast as we are using it.

    My kingdom (such as it is) for a fan.

  379. Dhorvath, OM says

    Andrew, I do recall and would not want anyone to change their position because of my calling them a name. And if that is all you took from my argument with you, well, I did poorly. Not that I didn’t or wouldn’t call names, but I aim for more than that.

  381. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    CT have you tried the dogfish head gluten free beers?

    I believe called Tweasonale.

  383. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    My beer nerdiness is something to behold.

    And to be envious of! I’m working on my beer nerdiness cred at all times!

    I’ve recently fallen in love with something call “bitter”. It’s doubleplusgood.

  385. broboxley OT says

    dunno, I like ipa (classics) nevada, anchor steam but I am also partial to stella artois so I am probably pedestrian in taste.

  386. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    And, i’ve even grown out of my deeply held anti-IPA beliefs. I found one that DOESN’T taste like rotten skunks ejaculating in a sea of moldy grass clippings.

    if only I could remember the name of it . . . . .

  387. cicely says

    ImaginesABeach, it’s 88 degrees, here, down from a high of 104. Tomorrow is supposed to be much the same, and the rest of the week looks to be made of suck, as well. Our office keeps closing early because the air conditioning there can’t keep up with the heat of weather+machines-powered-up. All well and good, but I don’t even want to think what our electric bill is going to be like.

    We washed the car (in an effort to provoke the sky), but the pitiful scatter of raindrops that resulted is…inadequate.
    –

  388. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    broboxley – I don’t agree. Stella is to craft beer what learning to crawl is to walking. Gotta start somewhere. ;)

    I kid, I kid. Stella is a good beer, for those occasions that call for not-craft-beer.

  389. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Yeah I’m a big ipa fan but am deeply in a sour beer kick right now.

    That and saisons

  390. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    And by that I mean, it’s the craft beer you take to the philistines that don’t drink craft beer.

  391. Dhorvath, OM says

    I am huge on Unibrou at the moment, citrus and yeast. But my dearest love is for the dark malts, oh yes indeed.

  392. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Damn you and your ALCOHOL!!! *shakes fist*

    CT:

    same thing when you have teens that drive — squabbling aggressive back-seat kid drivers.

    Hey, I’m a licensed backseat driver!

  395. ImaginesABeach says

    cicely – my government agency manages to cool the building to 80 degrees and then expects us to make brilliant policies which will solve the health care crisis. At this point, I can’t even solve the problem of excessive sweat.

    My electric bill should be low (with no air conditioner to run), but i’m refilling the tank on my car extra often because of all of the errands that I just HAVE to run right now.

    I get hot and cranky, and then realize we are out of dried oregano. Not that I’m going to use any dried oregano any time soon, but driving to the air conditioned store seems like a great idea.

  396. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Re olympics:

    They keep showing the same popular events over and over. And with a healthy dose of USA gloating. Frankly I’m sick of that.

    I try to go online, and NBC requires you to FUCKING REGISTER to watch videos. WTF? No.

    I guess if they (or other networks shut out due to exclusive deals) don’t even want to provide content that suits my needs, why bother watching?

  397. says

    Three members of a punk rock band in Russia are going on trial for heresy after singing a song asking the Virgin Mary to “throw Putin out.” Maria Alyokhina, 24, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 22, and Yekaterina Samutsevich, 29, have been in jail since March–for blasphemy. They pleaded not guilty to the official charges of hooliganism driven by “religious hatred.” Two of the women have young children and the court has recently ruled that they should be kept in custody for another six months. The charges carry a punishment of up to seven years in prison. The performance was a protest against the church’s support for Putin’s 12-year dominance.

    The head of the Russian Orthodox church, Patriarch Kirill, has called the “punk prayer” blasphemy, casting it as part of a sinister anti-clerical campaign. Patriarch Kirill has said the church was “under attack by persecutors” and has encouraged pro-church demonstrations.

  399. says

    Lyn M., I’ve never been inside Osgoode Hall but it is certainly a beautiful building with a lovely wrought-iron fence. I love that you have to navigate in through gates that were designed to keep cows from wandering off the lawn.

    CT, I saw gluten-free beers in an American grocery store. I don’t remember the price.

  400. firstapproximation says

    Nightjar,

    firstapproximation! *waves*

    *waves back*

    How’s it going?
    _ _ _

    I can only imagine PZ’s frustration. If you ban someone you get accused of censorship, encouraging groupthink and stifling debate. If you allow them to stay they derail threads and you can get accused of approving of the horrible comments they make. Finding the right balance is difficult. All the while you have everyone screaming at you on to how to do the job, each with their own idea of what this place should be (e.g, a safe zone, an idea wrestling ring, a place to hang loose, a “science blog”, etc.).

    Quite frankly, I think banning should only be used in the most extreme cases. The “trolls” could be useful if only for the SIWOTI quality comments they encourage. There’s also the chance that the person will actually learn from others, like Walton did (though this happens only rarely). When I was more active here some were way to happy to scream ‘Ban!’ against anyone who disagreed with them (cannot comment if that is still the case). Looking back, I should have been more vocal. Regardless, PZ’s recent solution of “Fuck it. Just fuck it!!!” is probably going to cause more problems than it solves. Hopefully, a better solution will be found later on.

    I couldn’t have lasted anywhere near as long as PZ did. He’s got a family, is teaching, writing, lecturing, and moderating comments on a heavy traffic blog. I’ve had only a few things going on recently in meatspace life (both good and bad, personal and professional) and had to decrease my online presence dramatically to cope.

    /rambling

  402. andrewv696 says

    @Dhorvath, OM 30 July 2012 at 10:11 pm

    Andrew, I do recall and would not want anyone to change their position because of my calling them a name. And if that is all you took from my argument with you, well, I did poorly. Not that I didn’t or wouldn’t call names, but I aim for more than that.

    Ah no, not because you called me a name!

    I recognized the validity of your argument at the time, and that is why I withdrew my statement.

    What I do recall though is that at the same time I was annoyed, because I knew that I had had experiences that proved me right, which was also annoying, clearly both things could not be true.

    I went over each case closely, but it took me awhile to sort out that the issue was with the selection of the cases. Then I was annoyed once more that I did not spot the bias immediately.

    Lot of annoyance went down I tell ya. I am amused at the whole thing right now though.

  404. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    firstapproximation at 398 – 100% co-signed.

    +++

    I disagree, Stella is a bog standard, kit-brewed monstrosity. I must assume you are USAian if you think it is a decent non-craft beer. Am I right?

    No, you are incorrect. I must assume that you’re a pretentious eurotrashian, who gets his tiny kicks trashing Americans. Am I right?

  405. andrewv696 says

    Quite frankly, I think banning should only be used in the most extreme cases. The “trolls” could be useful if only for the SIWOTI quality comments they encourage. There’s also the chance that the person will actually learn from others, like Walton did (though this happens only rarely). When I was more active here some were way to happy to scream ‘Ban!’ against anyone who disagreed with them (cannot comment if that is still the case).

    Full disclosure:

    PeeZuss banned me recently. And no I am not here to troll.

    I post under the userid “AndrewV69” over at the Slymepit usually in this thread:

    http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73

  406. says

    not taking the bait. I’m going to be a good person this time!

    Ah, yes, well, cross post from TZT then:
    lol, I’ve got to stick around for this attempt. A troll trying to act like a real person? How deliciously absurd.

  407. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    LOL wow. I remember Slanted Science being a useless troll but I wasn’t expecting immediate cowardice.

    not taking the bait. I’m going to be a good person this time!

    And, to you, being a ‘good person’ is attempting to insult someone based on the completely random location of their birth and then tucking tail and running away when called on it.

    When you start the shit, diddums, you don’t get to call a response “bait”.

    **whispers** ** P.S. learn to read, chickenshit**

  409. John Morales says

    StarStuff, be fair.

    Apart from the puppy-like attitude and the admission that this is the cool place to hang out, SS hasn’t written anything worth calling trolling in this episode, yet.

    —

    Same goes for the other specimen who “[posts] under the userid “AndrewV69″ over at the Slymepit usually in this thread: [pointless link]”.

    (I am in a charitable mood, ATM)

  410. says

    But I never said I was fair :P

    I want to poke the trolls, not play nice. And I don’t buy their “I’ll be good this time” act. They must prove themselves somehow (maybe involving fire or shape sticks or something).

  411. ibyea says

    Yay, the invasion begins. *readies artillery fire*

    You know, I think Slanted Science was obsessed with a certain topic. I just don’t remember what it was. Did it have to do with NASA or something.

  412. andrewv696 says

    @John Morales 30 July 2012 at 11:23 pm

    Same goes for the other specimen who “[posts] under the userid “AndrewV69″ over at the Slymepit usually in this thread: [pointless link]“.

    (I am in a charitable mood, ATM)

    I am reasonably certain, I will be able to tell when you are not. However, as I am also an Aspie like MKG, I may not.

  413. andrewv696 says

    @Slanted Science,

    You may want to move to the Slymepit if things get too hot here. Not too much dissent over there I am afraid.

    However, I doubt that we will call you names (not too many anyway).

  415. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ Rev BDC

    Noah’s Ark There have been one or two posts about this in the past. We have a Noah’s Ark right here in Hong Kong (previously posted):

    Noah’s Ark HK ; Noah Bot (!)

    @ Markita Lynda

    theophontes! Look what you did!

    I warned you I am ebil!

    @ anarchy69/andrewv696

    I went to fap over my dungeon entry and I realized it’s been dissolved. Does this mean I can post now, …

    Yes.

    … if I don’t troll?

    Actually, technically, you could troll on this thread: TZT link (The only crime there is being boring. It is an endless thread that gives trolls a soapbox to say their say and has been running for several months now.)

    And no I am not here to troll.

    We have made allowances for people wishing to troll anyhow. As per above comment.

  417. andrewv696 says

    @StarStuff, a soulless cunt 30 July 2012 at 11:35 pm

    If you’re not here to troll, what are you here for?

    I am quite often interested in subjects similar to the ones I sometimes see being discussed here.

  418. John Morales says

    andrewv696, since you are a self-professed person with Asperger’s syndrome, let me be unambiguous.

    You are not welcome here, in Pharyngula’s lounge, due to your past actions.

    If you honestly wish to exhibit good faith, you should forthwith depart TET (that’s this thread) and instead go to TZT.

    If you don’t, you will be telling every regular that you are not sincere, and are trolling.

    </charity>

  420. says

    Welp, my sewing machine just came to a crashing and spectacular halt. And the independent sewing machine repair place in my town is of the sort that does excellent friendly work for cheap, but might take a few weeks to call you back about the part you need ordered. :( So no more pre-vacation sewing for me.

    On the bright side, more time for pre-vacation cleaning! Oh wait, that’s not a bright side at all. *grump*

  422. andrewv696 says

    @theophontes (坏蛋) 30 July 2012 at 11:40 pm

    Actually, technically, you could troll on this thread: TZT link (The only crime there is being boring. It is an endless thread that gives trolls a soapbox to say their say and has been running for several months now.)

    I was recently banned by PeeZuss over at this thread. My 1st comment was here:
    http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/07/25/congratulations-to-the-civilized-scots/comment-page-1/#comment-411527

    And on a followup post to give the correct link to the paper I referenced, I got banned:

    PZ Myers
    26 July 2012 at 3:17 pm

    Ick. AndrewV69, proud slimepitter and MRA, with in.malafide in his email address? No. Just no. Fuck off.

    So I was banned, not banished as far as I could tell, and I tested it under my old ID. So new ID and new IP address as the old one is still banned.

    We have made allowances for people wishing to troll anyhow. As per above comment.

    Not interested in trolling actually. I am not above throwing the odd insult, but I rarely do that. When I do, it usually has some pretty bad prose and literary references.

    I probably will not be posting too much either. I pefer discussions, not arguments.

  423. John Morales says

    andrewv696, you are a self-admitted troll (cf. #417 above).

    You will be treated as such, troll.

    (You are also very, very stupid)

  424. Wowbagger, Titillated Victorian Gentleman says

    Starstuff wrote:

    Oh, I’ve figured it out: andrewv696 is here because the slyme pit seems to be pretty dead. Tell me: is it normally that lively, or is this a special occasion?

    Surely there are literally thousands of hard-done-by d00ds (and the occasional Chill Girl™) eager to join the He-Man Woman Hater’s Club? Or have all the claims on Twitter of the growing numbers of those rising up against the so-called #FTBullies been a lie?

  425. andrewv696 says

    @StarStuff

    See my #44 and stop being silly.

    Oh, I’ve figured it out: andrewv696 is here because the slyme pit seems to be pretty dead. Tell me: is it normally that lively, or is this a special occasion?

    It does get like that from time to time. I have not asked, but you can post as “guest” and ask yourself.

  426. John Morales says

    Mildly amusing it is that with every refresh, and with every post the trolls add to PZ’s coffers.

  427. Sili says

    Haha, yeah, hoggling, I remember that. It was a bit disturbing, yet amusing at the same time.

    Well – we’ve just raised the bar for “disturbing” rather a bit. Whatever else one may say about the dear hoggle, he did pay his hooker and didn’t harm any children in the process.

  428. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Eh.

    andrewv696, I’m rather saddened that you are not able to find stimulation at the slymepit.

    Well actually I’m not.

    Whatever, I have better uses of my time.

  429. John Morales says

    andrewv696: “See my #44 and stop being silly.”

    Hey, troll, I know that it’s too much for a stupid person like you to figure out the link between bloghits and advertising merit, but it does amuse me.

    (Bonus: I get to sneer at you!)

  430. says

    andrewv696:

    stop being silly

    I’d rather die. You see, I quite enjoy being silly.

    As for your “#44”, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Also, I think you messed up your blockquote there.

  431. Sili says

    The NBC commentator just used the word “ginormous”. Really, NBC?

    Considering their coverage of the Olympics™, that sounds like their smallest failure in a while.

    But welcome to 20th century English.

  432. andrewv696 says

    @John Morales 30 July 2012 at 11:44 pm

    You are not welcome here, in Pharyngula’s lounge, due to your past actions.

    If you honestly wish to exhibit good faith, you should forthwith depart TET (that’s this thread) and instead go to TZT.

    If you don’t, you will be telling every regular that you are not sincere, and are trolling.

    Very well, I shall depart to TZT immediately and give me a couple of minutes to compose an insult for you over there.

    I would also appreciate your counter offering a bit more, if it also indicates how many layers of the insult you got.

  434. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    andrew:

    Very well then. *gets the judging panel ready*

  435. andrewv696 says

    @StarStuff, a soulless cunt

    As for your “#44″, I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Also, I think you messed up your blockquote there.

    #404 .. and noted yes blockquote fail, and I am no longer here .. over at TZT composing an insult.

    respond over there if you will, after this I will not here.

  436. Josh, Official SpokesGay says

    Quick de-flounce (really, this is it):

    Why in hell would I or any other regular want to be around with the likes of Slanted Science and andrewv696 welcome to walk in play?

    Fuck this place.

    Out.

  437. John Morales says

    andrewv696 specimen:

    #404 .. and noted yes blockquote fail, and I am no longer here .. over at TZT composing an insult.

    <snicker>

    Take your time, O troll — and it’s funny that you have to work at what you imagine will be an insult.

    respond over there if you will, after this I will not here.

    Yeah, you will. You can’t help yourself, troll.

    —

    PS K-ching! :)

  438. Pteryxx says

    news on the harassment policy front: Stephanie Zvan just posted about two new policies adopted, including Atheist Alliance International which is a meta-policy to be enacted by the conferences they assist. So, AAI’s policy’s not only completely publicly viewable by design, it contains the first example that I know of a policy describing how they will handle information collected from harassment reports at different events.

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2012/07/30/more-policies-in-place

    AAI’s policy here:

    http://www.atheistalliance.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=507&Itemid=30

  439. thunk (Фарингюловская Народная Республика) says

    Oooh, pt’xx. Hats off to AAI.

  440. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Lyn M., is it legal to mail quinoa to the States? because I bought two bags by accident and I don’t use it up very quickly. It’s kind of like millet.

    Just got back. Sorry for the delay Markita Linda. I’m in China. Thank you for your kindness, but I shouldn’t eat quinoa anyhow, as it does rate on the carb scale.

    By the way, the easiest way to get to the Great Hall from the outside is to go in the front door that faces Queen Street, then to the main staircase on the right, which is in the room past the entry area. You will see a statue, and the stair case is closer than the statue. On the second floor, face the open area with the statue at the bottom. Your back is now to the main door. Turn right, and go to the right of the courtroom door. There is a door that takes you into the dining hall. There was a small sign at one point, not even sure if it’s still there. The meals are subsidized and very nice. It’s there for staff and judges as well as lawyers in town. The Law Society supports it as well. Wonderful room. Check out the stained glass and the giant brass chandeliers. The room used to be the place where parliament sat back in the day.

    I’m going to be back in Canada one day, and will be in touch.

  441. Sili says

    Why in hell would I or any other regular want to be around with the likes of Slanted Science and andrewv696 welcome to walk in play?

    Perhaps the idea is that “the regulars” have grown too possessive and entitled, and the free-for-all will clear the brush?

    I love blackberries, but the brambles can easily take over the entire allotment despite the berries being delicious.

  442. Pteryxx says

    …Wow. The AAI policy is heavy-duty. Obviously they’ve synthesized many of the best points raised over the months of ongoing discussion. I highly recommend checking it out.

    For example, their version of the no-hug rule:

    Attendees are expected to respect people’s personal space and accept “no” as a definitive answer to a request for any activity.

    and this… (emphasis mine)

    If an attendee harasses another attendee at the convention, on the premises of the convention or at a convention-organised event the [name of convention] organisers may take any action they consider appropriate, including warning the harasser, sanctioning the harasser or expelling the harasser from some or all of the convention without (in the case of a paying attendee) a refund or (in the case of a speaker attendee) the payment of any speaking fee.

    They laid it out. They LAID IT OUT in plain text that speakers will be expected to comply, too, or else. Wow.

  444. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    [Wanders into TET whistling a jaunty tune]

    What…wait, what!? I don’t even…

    [Eyes blanket fort. Realises that the only sooper-seakret password he knows is “Fixie Pixie” and so is unlikely to gain entrance.]

    Right, there’s only one thing for it:

    Cry “HAMMOCKS!” and let’s wear clogs no more!

    [places underpants on head]
    [tunes guitar to open Dm]
    [Sings]

    I have marshmallow cannons and rice paper sails,
    I make up my time card by swimming with whales,
    I love me some toast with butter so fine,
    But never give me no sparkling wine!

    Singing hey nonny. Ho nonny. Tra la, la, la.

    I have gimlets and grommets oh so dire,
    I make up these fonts so I can retire,
    I love me some science with flame and a bang,
    But never give me no vodka with Tang!

    Singing hey nonny. Ho nonny. Tra la, la, la.

    I have bicycle boots stuffed with hand warmers,
    I make up my mind with hospital corners,
    I love me an imp who puts rocks in her pockets,
    But never give me no salady rocket.

    Singing hey nonny. Ho nonny. Tra la, la, la.

    So now if you think my song is absurd,
    I could if I want flip you the bird,
    But I’d much rather put this all in a sack,
    And bury it deep ’till PZ is back.

    Singing hey nonny. Ho nonny. Tra la, la…..Gak!

    [Smashes guitar on floor]
    [Douses it with lighter fluid]
    [Arranges pieces in a Fibonacci spiral]
    [Runs away, beautiful blue pants streaming out behind his head like the flag of a drowning island nation lighted by a tropical sunset…]

  445. says

    Lyn M, I am curious, so if you wouldn’t mind indulging me, why can’t you eat any of the carbs? I have several friends with diabetes (both type 1 & 2), and they are generally fine with carbs. Where “fine” is defined as needing to be aware of the amount of carbs and keep it under a specific daily limit, but still able to eat all kinds, even sweets, within that limit. They use some sort of point system for tracking it.

  447. John Morales says

    FossilFishy, you put a smile on my face.

    ☺

    You get admittance; I’d join ya, but I’m on troll patrol ☹)

  448. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    FossilFishy, you put a smile on my face.

    Seconded!

    …

    troll patrol patroll

  449. John Morales says

    Ah, ye olde dayes, when us Antipodeans would be the first to skewer the fresh meat!

    …

    Hey! What’s a Tardigrade doin’ here?!

    (Ain’t you meant to be patrolling the Arena?)

  450. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    He [Mitt] told an audience of Jewish donors that cultural differences explained why Israel’s economy was much larger than that of the Palestinians.

    “You notice a stark difference in economic vitality. And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognise the power of at least culture and a few other things,” he told the gathering in Jerusalem.

    (link)

    Fuck off Mitt Romney!

  451. Pteryxx says

    via Singham’s blog and Ed Yong, statistical detective work for suspiciously good data may have caught Sanna’s research on morality:

    “Unlikely” data

    Sanna’s research covers areas of psychology including judgement, decision-making and morality. Last year, his work attracted media coverage (and so far, four citations) for showing that people behave more altruistically if they are physically elevated, for example by riding an ascending escalator1. This link between physical height and moral virtue is an example of embodied cognition, a growing area of psychology that looks at how the body and environment influence the mind.

    Simonsohn was looking through the literature on embodied cognition last July when he noticed Sanna’s elevation study. “The evidence was very strong compared to the other papers and it puzzled me,” he says. “Every result was super-significant, and there were very large effects.”

    Ed Yong blogged here:

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2012/07/12/another-psychologist-resigns-after-a-data-detectives-investigation/

    Quote source is his writeup for Nature News:

    http://www.nature.com/news/uncertainty-shrouds-psychologist-s-resignation-1.10968

  452. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Lyn M, I am curious, so if you wouldn’t mind indulging me, why can’t you eat any of the carbs?

    I hope I don’t bore you to death here. I have a complex of health issues which I hope to handle with as little meds as possible. I came off a short run with insulin, down to oral meds and now right off them. I am also on a heart diet. Current research suggests that carbs may have a greater effect on increasing triglycerides than does fat intake. At the least, this research challenges older wisdom.

    I have started a very strict no carb regimen to also stabilize blood sugar. Meat has much less of an effect on blood sugar than does carbs, as your diabetic friends have correctly informed you, I’m sure. So basically, I’m trying to hit the sweet spot in the midst of a bunch of health issues and zero carbs seems to be it.

    After more than 10 years of being hungry every day and counting every gram of carb, I am at last comfortable. I am also losing weight. This is really making me happy and I believe maintaining my health.

    Your friends are following the controlled carb model, which I did, too for over a decade. But for me, there is also the heart issue, allergies and other crap too dull for words. So I switched.

  453. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ John

    (Ain’t you meant to be patrolling the Arena?)

    Since the Pharyngulitic Anschluss,the entire blog is now a giant TZT. Don’t mind me, I am just taking in the sights of my newly expanded domain.

  454. Sili says

    He [Mitt] told an audience of Jewish donors that cultural differences explained why Israel’s economy was much larger than that of the Palestinians.

    “You notice a stark difference in economic vitality. And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognise the power of at least culture and a few other things,” he told the gathering in Jerusalem.

    I’m not surprised. That’s the same way he explains why minorities aren’t doing well in the US.

  455. Tethys says

    [De-cloaks the door to the blanket fort so Josh and FossilFishy can pile in.]

    We’ve just finished reinforcing the walls with Acme ™ trollpruf sheeting, and as you can’t see the tech department has done an incredible job on the nanomirror camouflage for the exterior.

    I think we can add-on a room or two to accommodate the group sex queues, and perhaps a library. Maybe an area for gaming if it turns into a long siege.

    We have booze, and food, and chocolate, and weapons, and lots of pillows.

    The trolls have even gone over to TZT, and are promising to be good. Apparently all the stars are aligned just right or something, or maybe the troll repellent has a soothing effect?
    _____

    More seriously, hoo-fricking-yay for explicit harassment policies. I think it is proof that all of the fighting and trying to raise awareness of the MRA brigades is working.

  457. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    *Taps finger on lips for a moment. Studies corner of blanket tent, nods*

    I think I can fit my canapé trays and refrigeration over there. I hope people will help themselves. I will make sure the champagne keeps coming and is properly chilled. People should bring their own glasses, of course. I don’t do dishes.

    *Settles on pillows, starts reading ebook.*

  458. Tethys says

    Here are some commas {,,} that should be in my last post.

    Goodnight all. Have fun holding down the fort. :p

  459. says

    “You notice a stark difference in economic vitality. And as I come here and I look out over this city and consider the accomplishments of the people of this nation, I recognise the power of at least culture and a few other things,” he told the gathering in Jerusalem.

    The few other things presumably being choice of the right prophet(not holy book, if Mitt is honest) and relentless American support, seeing that the two groups are genetically indistinguishable. Romney is a great candidate indeed, it takes skill to fuck up that many times on a single trip. Very promising.

  460. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    the champagne

    {theophontes perks up. thinks:”Mmmmh, I might have to requisition all that booze in the interests of “Public Security ™ “ or somesuch…”}

  461. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    [Sticks head in blanket fort]
    Howdy folks! Uh, is this place wired for 120 or 240 volts? And could I get a hand with the B3 and the Leslie? Cheers.

  462. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    @ theo

    I’m sure you’ll take this as it’s meant, don’t grab the booze and upset the tigers. They get touchy so easily. Or should I say fang-y and claw-y.

    But a bottle here or there won’t bother them at all.

  463. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Fossil fishy

    Both. Green plugs 120. Yellow 240.

  464. chigau (違う) says

    I have cheap yellow beer!
    (I don’t know how much … the bed of the truck is 3-deep in two-fours)

  465. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    That ought to hold things over night, chigau. Well done. Park by the back tent delivery bay.

  466. Lyn M: dropping the f-bomb since 1962 ... of death says

    Sorry, I meant parking by the back …

  468. birgerjohansson says

    I made the mistake to open the “Not a joke, and not an atheist” thread. U-uulp.
    — — — — — — — —
    (American gymnasts falling and hurting themselves)
    Butt-Head: “Is this Jackass?”
    Mr. Burns: “I see some more young, fresh organs will be available for transplantations” (evil cackle)
    — — — — —
    Swedish racist serial shooter, murderer is found guilty. No English-language link, sorry.
    — — — — —
    If you wonder where the clouds and rain have gone, we have stolen them.

  470. FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker) says

    Thanks for that Lyn.
    [Eyes the tangled nest of ground-loopy power boards. Spends 30 minutes sorting it.]
    [Plugs in and begins quietly noodling in a soothing Lydian mode.]
    [Notices that every flat surface has intoxicating beverages perched on them. Runs back outside for a portable GFI.]

  471. birgerjohansson says

    If English is not your first language, it is difficult to read between the lines and get the joke from abbreviated phrases.
    This took me two days to understand: “Cirith Ungol”
    http://www.xkcd.com/1087/

  472. says

    Thanks for indulging me LynM. Here, have this zero-carb e-chocolate cake that I made you. It does sounds like a terrible diet to have to handle, but if you’re not feeling hungry all the time, that’s gotta be a huge plus even before getting to the health. And you can have yummy steak, so it’s not all bad. nomnomnom steak.

  474. Pteryxx says

    …speaking of which… random disturbing artwork, via BB:

    http://boingboing.net/2012/07/30/teacup-lined-with-teeth.html

    …

    The artist writes:

    I also seek to create uneasiness. We are in an era flooded with objects, objects of use, comfort, sophistication, flamboyancy… There are many objects that serve immediate comfort, yet few are made to be a companion to our recurring feelings of uneasiness.

    WELL IT WORKED HOLY CRAP TAKE IT AWAY NOWWWW

  477. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Peter Jackson’s The Hobbit to be extended to three films

    Because he knows I’ll watch all fucking three of them, while grumbling and complaining a lot.

    I think I like this…

    Not sure though. The Hobbit sticks out more in my mind than the Trilogy and I wouldn’t want them to skip over or reduce important parts to my mind. But I also don’t want this thing drawn out just to have a third money maker.

    The trilogy was good so hopefully they’ll not fuck this one up.

  478. Wowbagger, Titillated Victorian Gentleman says

    John Morales wrote:

    Beatrice, you’ve never seen a penis bong? ;)

    I’ve got to say that was pretty high up there on ‘things I was sure I’d never see written by John Morales’…

  482. Beatrice says

    Unrelated to the penis bong (which I have googled later, since my life would be meaningless if I never saw it), I’m packed. I think. I still have more than enough time to remember if I forgot anything. I’m not leaving until after midnight.

  485. CT says

    Thanks! I have no problem finding names of beers online. It’s the actual buying of them that is the problem. Frugal MacDougals will have some but never dogfish for some reason.

  487. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Oh you should easily find Tweason’ale in Charlotte. I’m just down the road in Charleston and we can get it no problem. I know for a fact Dogfish Head distributes wide in NC.

    Check this out

    That’s a list of all the retailers that should have Tweason’ale (when it is available) within 25 miles of 28205.

    Total Wine is a really good bet.

  488. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    And good chance that any place carrying Dogfish Head will possibly have another couple gluten free beer options.

    Pretty sure that most all Ciders and Meads are gluten free as well. A little different from beer, but you can find some high quality products in either of those brews.

    Readstone Meadery makes some interesting mead. I know that City Beverage in Winston-Salem carries it, so there is a good chance someone in Charlotte does. Possible at those links.

  489. CT says

    Haven’t been there yet but the doodz here keep saying it’s great. Maybe I’ll try it this Friday. I’m feeling a beer-thirty coming on.

  490. says

    I won’t be watching the Hobbit when it first comes out. If they really are going to split it in 3, I’ll wait a few years for the complete thing to emerge, get it on DVD, and watch it at my own pace.

    If I watch it at all. Bloating it up to 6 hours+ is not a sign of good storytelling.

  491. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    If I watch it at all. Bloating it up to 6 hours+ is not a sign of good storytelling.

    Yep it’s a concern. But I’ll be a good little consumer and end up watching it all, not matter how shitty it may or may not end up being.

    I won’t be able to resist.

  492. says

    I’ll resist. King Kong taught me that Jackson is not a god of good fantasy story telling.

    Also, the end of LOTR is cause to worry. The Hobbit could be just hours and hours of tedious soft-focus gay hobbit porn. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but I don’t even watch porn that caters to my sexual preferences.

  493. says

    Oh, OK, I take it back, partly…I might be willing to watch a little bit of heterosexual hobbit porn. Rose Cotton was very attractive. But not 3 movies worth!

  495. Dhorvath, OM says

    I dunno, I like movies with trolls, goblins, halflings, and such. It needn’t be a masterpiece to entice me into the theatre.

  496. The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa) says

    I wonder how trolls will be portrayed in The Hobbit. The trolls from LOTR were pretty cool and all, but I’m having a hard time picturing them sitting around a campfire discussing how to cook dwarves.

    I agree with PZ about Jackson’s King Kong. I love that movie, if I skip the first hour or so.

  498. Patricia, OM says

    Rev BDC – I’ve finished the fermentation book, really enjoyed it. Starting some kimchi next week.

  500. ronsullivan says

    Since I don’t so much watch LotR as wallow in it, I kinda don’t mind that The Hobbit is going to go on and on. I mean, I know the story already; I just wanna see all that gorgeousness. Especially the horsey bits.

    (I like peas too, and Comic Sans. I’m old; I don’t give a shit.*)

    We have a week-long Ring-a-thon about once a year, when the downstairs neighbor’s away and we can run the DVD player through the stereo speakers turned up loud. It’s the aesthetic equivalent of Mom’s pork roast/fried chicken**, more or less. Might be even more fun if we ever get around to buying a big ol flat-screen TV.

    *I’m wondering who will pick that one up. Go on; I learned the fine art of straight-lines at my father’s knee and other low joints.

    **Depending on who’s mom: Joe’s or mine.