This is an amendment to a law, and sure sounds weird.
(b) No county, municipality, or other local public body shall adopt any rule, ordinance, policy, or planning guideline addressing sea-level rise, unless it is a coastal-area county or is located within a coastal-area county.
(c) No rule, ordinance, policy, or planning guideline that defines the rate of sea-level rise shall be adopted except as provided by this section.
(d) The General Assembly does not intend to mandate the development of sea-level rise policy or rates of sea-level rise. If, however, the Coastal Resources Commission decides to develop rates of sea-level rise, the Commission may do so, but only by instructing the Division of Coastal Management to calculate the rates.
(e) The Division of Coastal Management shall be the only State agency authorized to develop rates of sea-level rise and shall do so only at the request of the Commission. These rates shall only be determined using historical data, and these data shall be limited to the time period following the year 1900. Rates of sea-level rise may be extrapolated linearly to estimate future rates of rise but shall not include scenarios of accelerated rates of sea-level rise. Rates of sea-level rise shall not be one rate for the entire coast but, rather, the Division shall consider separately oceanfront and estuarine shorelines. For oceanfront shorelines, the Division shall use no fewer than the four regions defined in the April 2011 report entitled “North Carolina Beach and Inlet Management Plan” published by the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. The oceanfront regions are: Region 1 (Brunswick County), Region 2 (New Hanover, Pender, and Onslow Counties and a portion of Carteret County), Region 3 (a portion of Carteret County and Hyde County), and Region 4 (Dare and Currituck Counties). For estuarine shorelines, the Division shall consider no fewer than two separate regions defined as those north of Cape Lookout and those south of Cape Lookout.
(f) Any State agency, board, commission, institution, or other public entity thereof and any county, municipality, or other local public body that develops a policy addressing sea-level rise that includes a rate of sea-level rise shall use only the rates of sea-level rise developed by the Division of Coastal Management as approved by the Commission. If the Commission has not approved a sea-level rise rate, then the sea-level rise policy shall not use a rate of sea-level rise.
Why are they trying to define in a law precisely how you are allowed to measure a physical quantity, and why are they trying to decree that only linear rates are permissible? It sounds like they are trying to legislate reality.
But maybe some Carolinians in the know can explain the logic of their legislature.
I believe this is legalese for “Na Na Na Na Na Na, I can’t hear you!!!”
Everything has to obey laws, right? So why can’t we just write laws to deal with all our problems?
link is busted
Colbert had a piece on this last night
Sounds like the apocryphal story of the state law mandating π equal to three.
They’ve been reading the story of King Canute, but they don’t understand anything but the surface account. (Canute was putting down a flattering courtier. Canute knew damned well he couldn’t stop the tide from coming in.)
–W. H. Heydt
They’re fulfilling the mandate of the people they represent, wealthy realtors and contractors.
No county, municipality, or other local public body shall adopt any rule, ordinance, policy, or planning guideline addressing sea-level rise, unless it is a coastal-area county or is located within a coastal-area county.
so the inland farmers that want to plan how to control seawater intrusion into their local water tables are supposed to just pretend it isn’t happening.
Canute knew damned well he couldn’t stop the tide from coming in
nor could he explain it.
just ask Bill Oreilly.
Next week, they’ll adopt a law defining pi as 3.0, and no public school, college, university or public agency in the state will be permitted in the course of conducting its business to use any other value but 3.0 for pi.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/414796/june-04-2012/the-word—sink-or-swim?xrs=share_copy
They might as well call this the Canute Amendment.
BINGO! And the sea will wash it all away, but the realtors will have made their money so it won’t matter. In the meantime I’m thinking of investing in real estate in Clute, TX. I’m thinking “minutes from the beach” may be replaced with “the fine beaches of Clute”
And don’t count on seawalls. They destroy the beach anyway (the seawall beaches of Galveston are artificial) You can jack your whole island up 17 feet and build an awesome wall, but eventually a hurricane will get you with a backwash surge as Galveston did during Ike.
Memo to self: refresh comments before posting.
http://throughthesandglass.typepad.com/through_the_sandglass/2012/03/our-own-little-bridge-to-nowhere.html
http://throughthesandglass.typepad.com/through_the_sandglass/2012/03/the-costs-of-ignoring-science.html
What Blueaussi #6 said. My understanding is that, bottom line, this has to do with money. People with money will make more money if the sea-level rise is measured below a certain point — and you can build. Or something like that. It’s not religious — at least, not directly (except for those who worship Mammon.)
OK, I know the oceans aren’t completely “flat”, but is there the slightest shred of validity to this, unless you’re talking about encroachment onto land, rather than vertical rise? Selective gravitation (usually reserved for ice cream cones)?
And pi shall be 3, cuz we’re rational!
PZ
Saw this is another place, different context. Here is a link that discusses this bill (from the same place you linked to).
http://www.nccoast.org/blog-post.aspx?k=03bf9ca5-1477-454b-8216-82cbd2962148
It is simple. Follow the money!!!
They want to allow a lot of development on the coast. Houses, malls, vacation facilities, resorts, golf courses etc..
They don’t want anyone trying to stop them by pointing out that a lot of those will be underwater if the sea level rises 3 to 6 feet by 2100, the consensus projection.
So they are going to pretend it isn’t going to happen. By the time it happens all the money will have been collected and spent, most of those legislators and developers will be dead, and so why should they care?
To make it worse, the sea is already transgressing on the NC coast for some reason.
oops. Wrong link. This is better
http://www.nccoast.org/Article.aspx?k=b965eb03-1d87-4284-9bfb-46d8b3eb67fb
Don’t you know, PZ? Everything in science is linear?
Except, y’know, the things that aren’t.
I wonder if the NC legislature is taking lessons in absurdity from the writers of Monty Python.
The contractors will build. Fools will move in. The sea will claim its prize. The public purse will dole out “disaster” relief. And depending on when it happens, there won’t be any public schools or such to cut back or sell off to raise money to refill the purse.
so the inland farmers that want to plan how to control seawater intrusion into their local water tables are supposed to just pretend it isn’t happening.
What are you talking about? Everyone knows that “global warming” is a lie created by Big Green and Al Gore in collusion with the Illuminati to ruin American companies and sell the good people of the nation into abject poverty and slavery!
Google says the NC coastline has been sinking since the last ice age.
Combine that with rising sea levels and your beachfront structures aren’t looking to be around for the long term.
I can’t see that any such are or would be insurable. Insurance companies make their money by not paying for claims.
That’s it, I’m done. I am finished caring about this stupid fucking state, and finished correcting people who talk disparagingly in huge bigoted, dismissive generalizations about it. It doesn’t matter that some of us are sane and smart. We cannot fix this shit.
Have at it. I guess I was never a true North Carolinian Scotsman anyway. I’m going to find a non-shitpile to hang my hat sometime before I die.
Or really more by knowing risk
FIVE: There shall be no public sale of umbrellas or preparation for inclement weather of any kind.
SIX: No bed frame or mattress may be sold measuring more than 38 inches wide.
SEVEN: The only permissible paint colors shall be BLACK, WHITE or GRAY, despite the recent availability of certain alternatives.
EIGHT: All elementary and high school curriculums shall teach the “non-changist” view of history–emphasizing “continuity” over “alteration.”
-Pleasantville, 1998
If you can, check out a video called, “The Beaches Are Moving”, a PBS-produced video mostly by Dr. Orrin Pilkey, an emeritus (but still active) professor of coastal geology from Duke Univ. The video is around 20 years old, and manages to accurately predict a lot of what’s happening in NC coastlines.
This is an issue that’s been around for a long time. Yet there are still denialists. Sounds a lot like creationists. I’d love to say that they’re stupid, but I agree with those above who said it’s all about the money.
Developers always get uppity about their entitlements. There is always the question of who’s going to pay big bucks for these properties. A simple solution is to make all the houses water tight with positive buoyancy and deeded mooring rights inland.
They could take a note from Galveston, Texas. I mean, it’s not like the seawall was built for a reason or anything…
Coyotenose:
Good, because I’m really fucking tired of Southerners who boo hoo hoo about how misunderstood the South is.
This is so Orwellian I don’t even… *headdeask*
I dunno, shopping malls would be a lot more fun if you could cruise round them in a speedboat…
Not very surprising, since everything is a matter of opinion now (including laws of nature).
For small government! So small it’s nanotech and assimilates every fucking cell of all life on the planet!
I see noting about forbidding insurance companies from estimating the risk of sea level rise. That is probably because it is too late. Lots of luck getting a policy based on historical data. There may be southern christians in insurance companies but going bankrupt is not part of their religion.
Actually it is, but all of them utterly fail an explicit lesson from their God. One he went out of his way to stress HOW important it was. They ignore it because it’s hard.
Raven’s got it: $$$$$! First, by defining sea level rising this way they’re restricting the ability of coastal planning commissions and other regulating authorities to limit coastal development. Second, there’s a liability hedge in this. When sea levels encroach on these coastal developments, the developers can throw up their hands and blame it on the government…and so, NC tax payers, and probably the entire country, will foot the bill while the guys who made the billions sit in their manses far inland. Bastards all the way down.
Oh shit…check to see if there are any nukes missing, I remember this from the Superman Movie!
North Carolina Sea Levels Rising Three Times Faster Than In Previous 500 Years, Study Finds
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091028192617.htm
I don’t know if Science Daily is science or crap but here is a story. the coast and islands of NC are as delicate as any.
Possibly bizzare statement, but I’m worried about what this will do to beach wildlife, especially Sea turtles which are endangered and heavily affected by coastal construction.
Perhaps they’re not really serious, and are just imitating this guy?
Logic? What logic? This just proves that some folks are trying to drag the United States into some dark realm where only stupidity rules. Sometimes I think we are there already.
Re: Varying rates of sea level rise:
They measure the sea level rise relative to the land – unlike how NASA does it – and so when different parts of the land subside at different rates, you get localities with different rates of “rise”. The rise rate is going to be the same for all of NC, but the NET Rise Rate won’t be.
So it’s not ridiculous to insist that there need be multiple different calculations along the coast.
It’s just ridiculous to insist that those multiple different calculation don’t use, y’know, *data.”
You answered your own question. NC is following the venerable tradition of legislating away… um… inconvenient truths.
Reality is what I say it is and nothing you can do will… glub, glub, garggle… (cue theme from Jaws).
As a resident of the Netherlands I’m thanking the legislators of North Carolina for insuring that somewhere in the next two decades the dutch tax income will exceed expenses due to the obscene amount of income that our (currently) local industry of making sure that the coastline stays where it is supposed to be will be generating by branching out internationally.
So, I guess it’s the last moment to start investing in production of the undersea habitats a’la Aquarius Reef Base.
Now, this business is sure to not tank anytime soon (sorry for the lame pun).
I live in central North Carolina, and while the rising sea levels won’t affect me where I live currently, I fear for the beach resorts and condo rentals that have survived several hurricanes (most are built on stilts). To deny reality is to put one’s head in the sand and pretend disaster will not strike. Our state is always at the ready for a badass hurricane. But to legislate sea levels is just ignorant, not to mention impossible. Nature does not listen to people, it just acts. I hope the Outer Banks and all the resort islands south of Wilmington hire their own scientists to fight this dumbness!
Since I never did that, and since you’re apparently an asshole who eats her own without cause, take your faux righteousness and fuck off. The South may suck, but you’re still a bigot.
Look if people are going to live in other time zones could they please be less intelligent and well read please. I awake this morning, read the thread title and OP and think “Hmmm a Canute joke would go well here” only to discover that other people have made the comment/joke already.
This is unacceptable. I am writing to my MP as I type, not easy I can tell you, and something will be done.
Louis
P.S. Also, legislating against reality is the ultimate expression of pissing into the wind. I despair for us as a species.
I really think they’re just a bunch of AGW-denialists and they don’t want to have anybody doing anything if it relies on AGW-influenced data. I’m sure they would legislate that you can’t rely on Mann’s “hockey stick” to predict temperature increase in order to sell more sunscreen, if that were presented to them as a possibility. (note: not saying AGW = more sunlight — I’m being mean-spirited and assuming the NC legislature would think so)
Actually, I think paragraph (b) is even worse…it actually prohibits councils from making planning guidelines about sea-level rises unless they are on the coast (coz, you know, the ocean has no effect on any other part of the world…)
Actually, I think paragraph (b) is even worse…
yeah, that’s what I was focusing on too.
Also, legislating against reality is the ultimate expression of pissing into the wind. I despair for us as a species.
but…
you could legislate time zones Louis!
The story about legislating pi = 3 is only partly apocryphal. The full story is recounted in Petr Beckmann’s A History of Pi (an excellent book, btw, even if Beckmann was a bit of a nutter in other areas). What happened was that a circle-squarer in Indiana managed to convince a mathematically naive legislator to propose a bill to define pi according to the circle-squarer’s formula, the payoff for Indiana being that the state would be able to use the amazing new definition in textbooks without paying copyright.
The circle-squarer’s pi was, of course, pure bunkum. Without him knowing it, the proposed legislation gave several different definitions of pi, all of which contradicted each other…but none of the values was 3.
I think people are mixing up this example of circle-squaring (a mathematical fallacy similar to perpetual motion in the physical sciences) with the Biblically-derived value from an overly-specific reading of 1 Kings 7:23-26. They are different fallacies. As far as I am aware, nobody has ever tried to enshrine the Biblical value in legislation, though it seems North Carolina might give it a whirl any time now.
To end the Indiana story, the only reason the bill was not passed was that a holidaying professor of mathematics was visiting the gallery at the very time the bill was being debated. He had a quiet word with some of the legislators and the bill was dropped. It was never actually voted on, though, so in theory the bill is still under debate in the Indiana legislature.
They are actually and literally trying to outlaw science.
Scenes I’d like to see:
Coastal Sea Level Report 2014
North Carolina Department of Interior
1. Estimates (see note 1)
a. The sea level is expected to remain stationary for the next three years, then possibly lower by 1-3 feet over the next 5 years. No flooding of existing properties is expected over the same period.
b. No hurricanes are expected to strike the state over the next 100 years.
…
Notes
1. The scientific methods and data used in compiling this report were ignored/falsified by law. Any correlation between any actual future events and the conclusions of this report are accidental.
Ichythic, #52,
Hmmm you make a good point, I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
What I never get is the simple idea of the (caricature) Canute-ness of these people. I am not claiming to be perfect, ha, FAAAAAAR from it, but when I encounter something that really causes me to dig my ideological heels in, there’s a little voice in my head that says “hey, hey, guess what, you might be wrong, if you had a scintilla of the intellectual spine you claim to have you’d check that out rather than reject it”. Sometimes I have to…GASP…change my mind about something. Radical I know. So I understand the initial reaction, I get the raising of the hackles, I don’t grasp the deliberate ignoring (or absence) of that little voice.
{Sigh}
I have so many limitations.
Louis
Ichthyic,
I am also determined to misspell your name as often as possible. It can be the only excuse for my continued fuckwittery on the subject.
Lisou
This is nothing more than a Republican controlled house and senate legislating stupidity–I’m embarrassed for my state–again. The only bulwark against their religion-infused ignorance is a scattering of major universities.
I’ve got a plan:
1) Measure the sea level at low tide;
2) Measure the sea level at high tide;
3) Use a linear measure to extrapolite when the whole state will be submerged;
4) Evacuate the whole damn state.
The old saw “Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity” is one of the maxims which I think is abused to sweep corruption under the carpet. I agree with BlueAussie, Raven and the others who think this is legislating profits for developers, at the expense of the public purse later on.
I believe they know full well what the consequences of this will be, and are sniggering at being thought of as “stupid”, even as they rake in money.
First mistake, assuming that the NC legislature is logical.
Our (yes, I am in NC) most powerful members are either from the coast, or own property on the coast. Never underestimate the power of self protection.
We also hear them justify coastal issues as the vital engine that runs our tourist and film economy. Bullshit.
Legislate scientific conclusions/predictions?
(This has been another edition of Stupid Answers to Obvious Questions)
It’s quite simple, really.
Follow the money.
The money is in developing fragile coastlines. An estimate of sea level rise that will put your house under 3 feet of water in 2100 is not conducive to a high price for that real estate.
So, you lie about the expected amount of sea level rise. Ergo, you make tons of money, and you’re long dead by the time the chickens come home to roost.
Easy question.
kebin puts his thumb right on the issue here. These are the people who own most of the valuable property on the coast. If the sea does rise 1 meter, as predicted, that property is worthless. But if you can convince people that the sea is only going to rise 8 inches, you have time to sell out, take your money and run to the mountains. Let the time-share tourists worry about it.
I would guess the wording is there to protect insurance companies. We can’t be threatening profit margins with any of that scary science, you know.
It’s taking a page from King Cnut and ordering the seas to retreat. How else will they be able to funnel money via tax breaks to developers who want to build on what would become flood plains. And then get taxpayers to bail them out when the seas wash away their investments. It’s all part of the redistribution of wealth from the 99% to the 1%.
I have a question for the legally minded here. FEMA manages the National Flood Insurance Program, so would this legislation put the NC law in direct conflict with the Federal gov’t, who would presumably win due to the sovereignty clause of the Constitution?
Coyotenose, I see you’re still a whiny asshole who thinks that criticism of a region and its politics is “bigotry.”
Also, you’re not “my own.” My own are actually intelligent.
King Canute (Cnut in Old English) strikes again.
Yep and next up, what a bunch of labor hating anti-women assholes the Wisconsinites are…
Hy-Brasil is sinking….
http://www.myvido1.com/AVY5UeZJDdtJ2aKp0THFVP_hy-brazil-is-sinking
psocoptera @67 The FEMA Flood Control Insurance program is exactly that, an insurance program. As such it’s only power is that of setting rates based on the likelihood of flooding. Actually that is not entirely true because other entities use their data as well. Insurance companies, planning commissions, developers use the information to weigh risks verses profit. Pro tip, if the FEMA info is not included in the property’s disclosure packet when buying property, check on it yourself (your county or city will have the flood maps).
This law is most assuredly about money. Here is how I’m sure the first conversation went. Developer Jillian, “I’ve a $100 Million project in Bytheseatown and they are pulling some bullshit that I can’t build there because the sea will encroach on my property in 50 years. I’ve already have got $30 million invested in the property and this is going to kill me”. Lawmaker Jacques replies let me look into this.
Some days later, Lawmaker Jacques calls back, “Jillian, we found out that Bytheseatown is using a tougher standard that anyone else is. So I can help you out by making them use the rise in sea level that we mandate”. Developer Jillian lets Lawmaker Jacques no that she is very appreciative of his help and indicates that she will support him in all his political endeavors (subtext: the check is in the mail).
Er, that would be “know” not no. Preview is your friend if you let it be.
(g) All coastal counties shall change their names to “Hai-Brazil.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8IBnfkcrsM
(Eric the Viking)
Cry moar, Rev. Politicians elected in the South to offices with nationwide influence have by far done more damage to this country, collectively, than have politicians in any other part of the country.
Yeah but now that Wisconsin is going that way and they’ve decided to keep Walker in can we start refer to the whole state as women hating anti union assholes?
Heads in the sand underwater.
Impressive>:/
It is simple to get around this bullshit law, the scientific reports just have to refer to the land as sinking relative to the sea. Sinking land is not legislated yet. Game, set, match…..
It’s a bit more cynical than just ideologues trying to regulate reality.
A lobbying group for coastal development is attempting to artificially inflate the value of coastal property, which has the combined effects of A) allowing them to dump coastal property at inflated value while ignore flood rezoning regulations and B) driving out historical communities which (despite a few wealthy areas) are among the poorest in North Carolina and are being driven out of homes that their families have lived in for generations because they can’t afford to pay property taxes on these inflated values. Those communities can then be demolished to make way for more condos. Because what coast NC really needs is moar condos!
That, or it’s a clever ploy to support the completely valid and utterly scientific theory of Global Draining – North Carolina’s attempted ban on sea level rise is a boon for Global Draining researchers – http://www.southernfriedscience.com/?p=13192
coyotenose:
I’m late to the party, but: I’m a fellow North Carolinian. I know, and you know, and everyone else reading this knows that one cannot judge an individual by where they live. This fact is beside the point when judging an area overall.
Recently we’ve seen stories about homophobic preachers, and groups wanting to have white pride rallies, and we say, “those people are a fringe minority, we’re not really like that”. But now we’re faced with the fact that a large majority recently voted against civil rights for same-sex couples who want to have legal recognition.
And it’s time to face the truth, coyotenose: we are the outliers. The “typical” North Carolinian is a bigoted dumbass. We can fight against them with all we have (and we should), but we seriously can’t say that they aren’t representative of our state. Because they are, sadly. And we should be fighting with all our strength to change it.
This could all be solved very simply: the Bible says that fools build on foundations of sand (i.e., beachfront property!) and therefore a law should be passed that building on sand is wrong and evil and amoral and icky and makes baby Jesus cry. Problem solved.
Checkmate, atheists! <3
Good, because I’m really fucking tired of Southerners who boo hoo hoo about how misunderstood the South is.
Dear Ms Daisy Cutter –
Kindly go fuck yourself sideways. Also, please tell me where you live so that I may use examples of your neighbors doing stupid and odious things to make generalizations about you.
Asshole.