This makes TWO zombie threads that I’ve killed now. POW, right in the head.
Don’t you dare resurrect it.
By the way, you would be amazed at how many Zombie Jesus graphics you can find on the web.
TZT
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
I promise I, and the Central Committee of The Zombie Thread, will ‘Politely Refuse Resurrection of the Capitalist Zombie Thread!’ And to prove it, I shall assign the Sign Committee of the Central Committee of The Zombie Thread the task or righteously placing posters in surreptitious locations.
No, it is a core concept of SCIENCE. Your opinion doesn’t count.
You have been presented with the evidence. You reject the evidence, which is conclusive or, in the case of abiogenesis, still incomplete, but it is being worked on. That evidence is in the peer reviewed scientific literature, found institutions of higher learning world-wide. You know, those places with libraries that contain stuff you don’t understand.
Now fuckwitted idjit, show conclusive physical evidence for your imaginary deity, and that your holy book of mythology/fiction is inerrant. You lose, and you have admitted you have no evidence for your imaginary deity. Which is why it is imaginary.
That, fool, is the evidence. Your opinion that it isn’t is worthless, ignorant and stupid. But then, so have your posts been from the beginning.
At no point did you present that “gottcha” moment you were so sure you had. You, in return, were repeatedly shown to be nothing but a liar and bullshitter, because you lacked evidence to back up your inane and ignorant opinions.
Not resurrecting, no, no way, no resurrecting going on here nothing to see just move along …
Just when I thought it was all over, this from danielhaven raised a chuckle. In fact the more I think about it, the funnier it is. Oh dear oh dear … let me see: Darwin somehow causes a process that pre-dates him by the entire age of the universe and which is simply inevitable wherever heritable characteristics of any kind exist (well why suggest we blame him if you don’t think he causes it?) and that process – the process of natural selection – has agency (well why suggest we blame it if it doesn’t have agency in the first place?).
Hilarious.
I just spend a minute with google. I am amazed.
Yeah, it’s mind boggling how dh666 won’t believe reams of deep, systematic, empirical evidence, claiming it’s not proof. He obviously has a very, very skeptical and demanding intellect, and he diligently rejects anything that fails to meet the exacting standards of forged scholarly fairy tale.
You, sir, I stand in awe of. BTW, did you get the latest upgrade?
theophontes 777
(There was no previous TZT. Move along.)
I’m an archaeologist so geology-talk I can’t do.
or We could just talk like danielhaven.
No one would understand (including us).
Hey, who put this big rock here!?
Dammit, it’s raining, we can’t smoke our hemp in this.
Mary, help me move this thing.
[grunting and whinging]
What the hell is that!!!!?
[screams, alarums and excursions]
Okay, okay, okay….we bury this one and if anyone asks the damn thing was empty, right?
And cover up that bight before you go back to the village…..
I can’t believe the christslime is still going. Which only goes to show that stupidity really is infinite.
Wait, is there good news about a Magical Dead Jew on a Stick? Will someone please enlighten me?
Speaking of which, I realized after SonSpawn got captured in conversation by a troll at Reason Rally that I need to improve my kids’ TrollDar, and enhance their weaponry for extrication from such situations, but in ways that won’t make the Park Police annoyed.
(The cops on duty near Reason Rally yesterday said that Reason Rally was the calmest and smartest crowd they’d ever dealt with.)
Zombie Jesus rewards you with a crown of incisors.
Brains–you can’t eat just one, Jesus.
Glen Davidson
Well, I don’t care if it rains or freezes,
Long as I have my zombie Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my zombie Jesus I’ll go far.
Zombie Jesus, zombie Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car
Through all trials and tribulations,
We will travel every nation,
With my zombie Jesus I’ll go far.
To partake in godly gains,
let Jesus eat your brainz!
No offence, O Squidly Overone, but….how good a shot are you, exactly? Really, it shouldn’t even be twitching by this point.
Clearly PZ is no longer on the list in the event of a zombie apocalypse.
This thread is still twitching, twitching like danielhaven’s brain.
What proof will you accept?
I told you last week that all the galaxies are spreading outward relative to each other, as if from a central point and time. That implies that there may have been an explosive beginning.
Some scientists figured out that if there had been an explosive beginning of the universe, it would be visible behind everything in every direction and it would show as energy of a certain temperature. They looked, and there it was–exactly as predicted.
It is almost literally a smoking gun–it is the heat of the explosion. It is all the proof that you need.
Note: Science doesn’t deal in proof, it deals in high probabilities. Also, scientists aren’t just taking each other’s word for all this–each must publish all work, show the logic and all information needed to check everything. Scientists have checked everything about everything about the background radiation–it is there.
Unless you can find an error in their work–a scientific error in their science–you MUST accept it as proven (for your value of proven). Just yapping about your god doesn’t cut it–your god made a flat earth with a canopy over it, and that is in the book–what you believe isn’t science.
Why are you whining about the Big Bang? Astronomy flushed the Bible with the first telescope. If you accept a spherical earth, other planets and galaxies, you are a god-damned unbeliever.
Prove it? The fossil record proves it. What do you want, a bible quote supporting that? Your standards of proof need to be stated clearly and somehow achievable in the comment section of a biology blog.
You also need to write more clearly–I really don’t know what you mean there. I think you are trying to say that all the highly-educated scientists have been deliberately ignoring a blatant flaw that is glaringly obvious to you.
That may be how things work in your mind, but that isn’t how science is done. Your problems are your problems, and you certainly seem to have problems.
All the scientists agree with each other, within the limits needed to keep checking each other’s work. The people who disagree with the scientists do not agree with each other, and none of them have a good argument.
Try harder to explain what you meant about simple life, and I’ll show you where you are wrong. But for now, you are both unclear and wrong.
All he wants to do is eat your brains.
(He’s not unreasonable; I mean, no one’s gonna eat your eyes.)
Oily flurking schnit, it’s not that the thread is lurching along despite PZ’s efforts…it’s danielhaven. Isn’t it obvious that he’s the dark principle animating its dreadful corpse?
Now, I’m just saying, but…in every game I’ve ever played, blunt instruments do extra damage against zombies, skellingtons, walking corpses and other unholy revenant types(misc). Heavy blunt instruments.
Come the zombie apocalypse, I’m going with Myers Jr. and his 70-ton tank. That should do it.
Yezz, tanks is the ultimate in heavy blunt instruments.
Blunt instrument, tanks or logic, danielhaven is going to take it all as further proof that he is right.
Remember rule #2: Double Tap!
cm:
So we bring in Myers, Jr, and it is all, “Tank you. Tank you very much”?
Aquaria:
for some reason, this brings to mind an image of a flock of believers in heaven all wearing “I’m with stupid” t-shirts…
I can’t imagine being so dumb as to actually think that the end of the dinosaurs meant everything had to start over from scratch.
It’s like saying “It took 6000+ years for humans to invent the airplane but suddenly we’re on the moon a few decades later!?”
XD
As best as I can tell, the reign of the dinosaurs meant we mammals got quite a boost. Our proto-mammal ancestors were big and slow, but living under the feet of the dinos made quite a change.
First off, only the small ones survived. Small animals tend to have short generation times and lots of selection pressure. 120 million years of that ended with highly-refined little mammals that were tough enough to survive the dinosaur-killer, and able to explosively adapt to an new world.
The proto-primate at the end of the dinosaur days was a critter much like a modern tree shrew. It wasn’t a soft little blobby thing, but an active and agile hunter of insects, bounding through the trees. Getting from that to an ape in 65 million years is a doddle.
As for the 600 million years mentioned for “simple life forms”, well, when all the competition is also simple, things can take time–especially to get from a sponge to a vertebrate. I wonder if that is what danielhaven was confused about–600 million years doesn’t ring a bell with me.
Is there some kind of Serious™ Discussion™ going on here?
I’m a wee disappointed.
—-
My banana bread turned out right nice.
Good god! Ezio’s still going!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFdgGnMYXSA
I first heard Saxon Street live in a below-ground bar 20-ish years ago. Oy.
I dunno, chigau (√-1), I was kinda hoping the Zombie thread would be a bit more serious than the Endless. Science rather than recipes. But that was just a hope.
Um …. movies, then:
I am feeling some satisfaction that the “John Carter” movie has become the biggest money-loser ever. As I have said elsewhere, it was like somebody wanted to copy the Star Wars prequels. I just wish they hadn’t found a favorite book of my childhood and decided to violate it.
Why, even, use the book? Few young people have heard of it, and fans like me are going to boycott the damned movie. Of course, I said the same thing about the Conan movie, and Arnold wound up as governor of California.
Menyambal
So, did you miss all that stuff with the lolcats?
.
.
Amen, sibling!!!
(about almost anything I read as a child and youth)
Why hello there, Benji Geiger. Did you think everyone had forgotten about what a creepy, misogynist shitstain you are?
Not sure why you’re saying this to me. My point was I can’t imagine the idiocy of somehow thinking that evolution had to start over after the dinosaurs were gone or that it takes the same amount of time to reach some arbitrary water mark.
Single cell to even simple multi-cell is an entire UNIVERSE of difference from One type of Vertebrate to Another Slightly different Vertebrate.
Zombies. the low-level DM’s friend.
Jesus-ite trolls. Nobody’s friend.
Ms. Daisy Cutter
Not to worry.
We can get him from orbit.
(Just to be sure.)
Oh no. I slung zombies at a high-level party. It wasn’t the zombies themselves that posed a danger, it was the nightmare fuel that was slung through them. It put a PLAYER into a BSOD.
See, Menyambal. That’s how it works here.
Incomprehensible all the way!
LOLCATS IS SRS BZNS
That was experimental pharyngulology.
Are you sure it was not experiential pharmacology?
Ing:
Sorry, Ing, I wasn’t presuming to address you–I am not worthy. :)
I certainly wasn’t trying to correct, rather to agree with you–I was trying to explain something to danielhaven, may he never return.
I am not sure I comprehend that. :)
I do enjoy all the fine writing here, whatever the topics.
That’s the conventional fossil-timed estimate for the first animals, the common ancestor of sponges and arthropods (and mammals, and turtles). Molecular-clock dating pushes it back much further, maybe double.
Ravens, legendarily. Geiger.
yeah, that was pretty good.
Translation: In a game I ran I used zombies for higher levels and found it effective by using the horror tropes they can evoke beyond their game stat limitations. It actually scared one player
Ing
That was a translation‽‽‽
@chigau
Hai Cde Chi Gauvara (an AWEsome nym de Guerrero)
Got quite a fright this morning ’cause I thought our thread was daid. Obviously this is impossible, as it is a zombie thread.
But learning from the experience, what would we do if such an apocalyptic event happened to our beloved thread? {}
@chigau
Hai Cde Chi Gauvara (an AWEsome nym de Guerrero)
Got quite a fright this morning ’cause I thought our thread was daid. Obviously this is impossible, as it is a zombie thread.
But learning from the experience, what would we do if such an apocalyptic event happened to our beloved thread? { theophontes spontaneously starts singing th
Zombies scary! Fire bad! Tree good! Beer foamy!
@chigau
Hai Cde Chi Gauvara (an AWEsome nym de Guerre)
Got quite a fright this morning ’cause I thought our thread was daid. Obviously this is impossible, as it is a zombie thread.
But learning from the experience, what would we do if such an apocalyptic event happened to our beloved thread? { theophontes spontaneously starts singing the TZT national anthem.}
We need to create a code, so that we can communicate (as all responsible Benevolent Dictators for Life should) in order to be able to infect a new host thread with the TZT mindlessset.
Unfortunately I don’t speak archaeology. How to create a code then – ex nihil – right here on TZT ? (codes require a period of secret discussion prior to being launched into the open. We need to bootstrap one in plain view.)
Bloody stoopid iPad. How does it work? (not mine, please understand. More baksheesh …)
Eh, I give up on trying to kill TZT. The LOLstar and, Darth Benedict and the Porcupine have new been freed up to attack really stupid trolls.
theophontes
My current (…) is from another thread:
link
As for coded communication here, are you a Trekkerie? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok
Magnets maybe?
@chigau
Another addition to my Gilgamesh/Noah list of flood stories? (a recent one I found is in the Iliad … With nine days rain instead of forty.)
[whisper] it would seem our need of a code has become redundant. A.R has stopped the LOLcat bombardment. Keep the TZT myrmidons in the dark about this though … We still need (the pretense) of enemies…[/whisper]
Mattir @9, I guess that’s one group whose opinions you changed!
{Black C-130 lands in thread, A. R runs out embarrassed} Forgot the radiation beam projector. {loads beam projector onto forklift, drives into C-130, takes off}
I got to see a TV preacher this morning, babbling about how “humanism” is a religion and how humanists are driven by humanism in their every action from morning to night. It sounded really strange coming from an alleged believer. He really had no clue.
Not that I am all that sure what “humanism” involves, myself. I certainly don’t claim to be a humanist. Atheist is something I will claim, though, and I know Christians have little clue about that.
It was some comfort to see that his audience was composed only of elderly ladies. Although sad, too.
Speaking of ladies, I am watching Sense and Sensibility (the 2008 version). I have no clue as to the plot, but it is so very English.
“..how humanists are driven by humanism in their every action from morning to night.” As they should be otherwise they’d be hypocrites.
Basically I always see it as
Methodological Naturalism is to Science as Humanism is to Ethics.
theophontes
({[wow. I can now just type your ‘nym without cut/paste. Does this mean we’re engaged?]})
{(\”pretense”‽…”pretense”‽ The Enemies are Real!!!/)}
Who are you, really?
It sure would have helped if the damn thing had run a little tutorial explaining that you can pull up even more special characters (on the tilde in particular) by tapping and holding keys on the virtual keypad before it asked me for my frikkin’ Wifi password! Would have saved a bit of unnecessary hassle!
Tap and hold. That’s how it works.
{news feature on TZ-TV}:
Not to be confused with the double tap, which is useful during zombie invasions.
I think this captures the spirit, haha , of our message:
A Spotters Guide
Thanks. I guess I am a humanist, then.
I will look up more about it. I was just befuddled by the way the preacher made it sound like a sick obsession–he was projecting, I think.
@ chigau
Engaged in the duties of leading our Dear Motherthread. {wipes away tear, as national anthem starts to play}
(((([{ we must take care no t to start believing our own propaganda…. “don’t ever get high on your own supply” …}]))))
PZ, if you keep posting funny pictures like that, the zombie might keep resurrecting. :)
theophontes
———————
(sorry I forgot the protocol)
Are those “people” having a serious discussion?
Oo! Can I be a myrmidon?
No, actually, I think I prefer to be a
minotaur.IMO being humanist is a default to being moral or ethical. Otherwise you’re either selfish (acts for rewards), amoral (obediently following the commands of an authority just because) or apathetic
{A. R secretly prepares massive assault fleet to attack TZT with LOLcats in numbers never before imagined.} Cackle.
Mattir:
Good news, everybody!
Are you tired of the same old Magical Dead Jew? Tired of him just lying there, limp and lifeless? Then have we got a deal for you!
The makers of corn dogs and meat on a stick now bring you Magical Dead Jew on a Stick! That’s right! Using the same technology that revolutionized frozen juice treats by bringing you Popcicles, we have propped the Magical Dead Jew in an upright position. The Magical Dead Jew is presented in an appealing manner, arms akimbo, as if offering a Magical Dead Jew hug.
So next time your party plans call for a Magical Dead Jew, don’t give the same tired old presentation. Prop him upright using our pleasing, patent-pending Stick technology today!
Nigel #71
That Crossed The Line
(even for me)
Well done!!!!
Bravo!
Bravo!
Bravo!
It would be more amusing to call it a “Dead Magical Jew” as that would imply that he was allegedly magic whilst alive, but died anyhow.
But the Christians have that covered, and regard the dead guy on a stick as being magical.
Um, shouldn’t he be a Christian, not a Jew? Unless he didn’t believe he was the son of Gawd?
It is slightly amusing how in the last few American decades Jews have gone from being the enemies of Christians to being the rightful heirs of beloved Israel. But it does take away the former shock value of calling Jesus a Jew.
I see, as was predicted, that Benjamin Geiger has slunk back in acting as if his previous display of misogyny, callous disregard of others, and general jackassery has been forgotten.
It hasn’t.
chigau (whom I shall not call “chi”):
Wait, what? There’s a line?
{nigel stumbles about searching for a line, while surreptitiously using his toe to erase the line}
I see no line here.
———–
This is not the line you’re looking for*.
(*…for which you are looking.)
Move along.
I haven’t seen significant decline in the former, only an increase in the latter.
They’re still held in contempt, only relatively less so than Arab Muslims. (Arab Christians are confusing, therefore they do not exist.)
{While other people are engaged in Serious Conversation, a scout battalion of LOLtroopers lands in OG-OGs.
{Despotic and overly-melodramatic invaders are usually heralded by much fanfare.}
Daisy Cutter:
Nah, I figured you were running out of things to hoggle over, so I dropped back in.
{Resistance mounts. LOLtroopers shall be opposed.}
It did not take long for the asshole to show his true colors, did it?
Fuck off, Geiger.
Nah, it only took her 15 comments.
Benjamin Geiger, you are not welcome. Please leave.
Mhmm.
I see your Giorgio Tsoukalos and raise you an Archimedes.
SallyStrange #84
uuhh
dh666 is kinda the Thread mascot, couldn’t we have BG as the ClassClown™?
Ben Geiger is the wrong kind of clown.
He’s the creepy kind.
He’s not funny, he’s tragic and disturbing.
Chigau:
Sadly, no. Clowns are funny. Being a manipulative, empathy-free misogynist is not funny.
Then I’m a perfect clown!
A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants!
(And off to bed. I’ve got work in the morning.)
Go fuck yourself Benjamin.
As I said, your previous display of misogyny and assholery hasn’t been forgotten.
Not by me, not by Daisy Cutter or Sallystrange, and I doubt we’re the only ones.
We don’t serve your kind here.
and he sucks as a photographer
Y’know, when I say I’m going to bed, I really should go to bed.
TLC: Apparently you do serve ‘my kind’ here… assholes, anyway. After all, the three of you are still here.
And thank you, chigau. I actually feel better now. Up until now, I was worried that maybe (despite all evidence to the contrary) there was a tiny bit of truth to what was being said. But you had to go and insult my photography. You’ve shown that you’re willing to make stuff up just to hurt me.
No Benjamin.
You have posted links to your best work.
I’ve seen it.
It is not very good.
Assholes, yes. Creepy misogynists? No. That’s why you’re not welcome.
Go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut Benjamin, you creeper.
With every post you disgust me more.
[meta]
I can’t do the persona non grata thing, sorry.
(If I had something to say to Benjamin, I would)
Chigau: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Hey, Benji, I have a question for you: How do you type so well with only one hand on the keyboard?
Despite being much stronger than zombies, the players were scared of them because Ing replicated the scariness of a horror movie in the game.
Sorry, there’s a certain minimal level of understanding nerds tend to assume, Ing’s translation was at that point XD
Guessing Benjamin got worse. Pity. But unsurprising.
How about “Existentialist pharyngulology”?
Not for Zombies, though.
And now I have this vision conflating CMOT Dibbler and religious hucksters. And it works.
Not to worry. Girl and I both play trumpet.
Well, I play trumpet, she plays strumpet.
Is there any other kind?
I presume that that is actually the cool thing about being a zombie…….As unwelcome as you are, you do get to come back.
As to the killing of two threads, it appears to be more of a suicidal tendency. And “Free thoughts” are only free thoughts if everyone has the same thought as you. And your moral limiter is that there is no moral limiter and any line can be crossed.
As for the ‘millions of papers’ (gee, I really need to explain this one), there are many millions of valued scientific papers in many fields (31+ plus and counting) but to use all of those to attempt to validate your theory is not just mind-boggling. The use that ‘ALL SCIENTISTS’ as quoted above deserves the earth-shattering scorn that a delusional statement like that conjures up. It has also been stated many times in these blogs of the unproven sections to your theory. A statement that the universe is expanding, not that it was already there and we are discovering new frontiers, that concludes there had to be an explosion to begin it all (just as predicted) is ample lab proof that I require to believe that God exists.
As for your dating method, which is the biggest point we differ on irrespective of the selective treatment of arguments, continuous insults and sheer blinkered opinion CREATED in your own mind, there has been no answer forwarded as to dating an item that for many centuries may not/probably was not exposed to the carbon required to date it.
So yes, before you answer, kill the thread.
So evidence that supports a sceintific theory of the formation of the universe you claim as proof for the existence of gods?
Carbon 14 dating is good to about 50,000 years (still 9 times longer than you claim the entire universe has existed). Other radiometric dating methods, such as Ar/Ar and Ur/Pb, dealing with isotopic half-lives in the billions of years, can be used to date specific geologic formations going back billions of years. And they agree with each other.
Relative dating uses geographically diverse but relatively short-lived species to figure out where a geologic formation fits into the column when no volcanism has provided the dating materials. Conodonts are very useful for this.
And every dating method, whether absolute or relative, agrees with other dating methods. And it is replicable by any laboratory that has the proper equipment.
Oh. I’m sorry, DanielHaven, you were showing us your ignorance and I rudely stepped on you.
Let’s see…
shows that you don’t understand the big bang theory, and
shows that you don’t understand carbon dating.
Might as well go with “tide comes in, tide goes out” from here, sweetie.
I have to hand it to you…..CLAP CLAP CLAP
It doesn’t even need me to prove anything in a lab because you all subliminally implant the fact that GOD exists by the pictures that you post regularly to each other. While you consistantly show your moral bankruptsy (even praising the pretentious conversation), you actually are only re-inforcing that GOD exists. And in hind-sight, you seriously want to bring about a set of morals that is so totally different to the set of morals that exist and are. I await with bated breath.
P.S. By the way, Chi-Chi [chigau (Don’t call me “Chi”)], it is perfect as you can see beyond and be able to utilise the code.
You do know that you are not supposed to lie, right? You are not waiting with bated breath. You are waiting for another chance to toss insults.
Shows your answer leaves a lot to be desired.
TO Ogvorbis: shameless AND impudent!
As for your dating method, which is the biggest point we differ on irrespective of the selective treatment of arguments, continuous insults and sheer blinkered opinion CREATED in your own mind, there has been no answer forwarded as to dating an item that for many centuries may not/probably was not exposed to the carbon required to date it.
Carbon 14 dating is good to about 50,000 years (still 9 times longer than you claim the entire universe has existed). Other radiometric dating methods, such as Ar/Ar and Ur/Pb, dealing with isotopic half-lives in the billions of years, can be used to date specific geologic formations going back billions of years. And they agree with each other.
Relative dating uses geographically diverse but relatively short-lived species to figure out where a geologic formation fits into the column when no volcanism has provided the dating materials. Conodonts are very useful for this.
50 000 years, Nerd of Redhead said that carbon dating dated the Shroud of Turin? Scientists never examined religious artefacts and those studies are best to be ignored by those who want evidence.
TO pentatomid
It is a thoery and as I said, I cannot have a free thought unless it is your free thought. As for the dating, see above.
Danielhaven,
You misunderstand, Dannieboy. Of course God is real. I am God. See, I prefer hanging out with the Pharyngula crowd over those creepy believers, you know. Seriously, that Darth Benedict chap gives me the creeps and Santorum smells a bit odd. I really wish you’d all stop worshipping me.
Christ, you christers are annoying jackasses.
You are also a shitty writer, though that is not as endemic to your delusions. Seriously, rather than using ‘subliminally’ (That word does not mean what you think it means), ‘unknowingly’ is a much better fit. ‘Implant’, like ‘subliminally’, is an inappropriate word choice – ‘suggest’ is much more suitable. I get that you think you’re talking like a scientist, but aside from the fact that subliminal messages are quackery, that’ll actually get you much closer. Finally, although not as glaring, ‘the pictures that you post…’ is ugly and minces metaphors. ‘the pictures that you paint…’ is much more elegant.
Onto the content – ‘God’ isn’t a rational conclusion from the big bang. You have to have evidence for such a deity before you can begin to claim that it had a divine appendage in the Big Bang – it is equally ‘valid’ to posit that Brahmin, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or Izanagi and Izanami formed the universe, based solely off the Big Bang, as it is God.
Someone who writes like you *really* doesn’t want to throw stones about pretense. For reals, it’s not going to help you.
Only in the minds of the delusional.
Yeah, I do. I want ones that emphasize equality, not your shitty tribalistic jackassery that demands servitude to an alleged omnipotent jackass.
Odd. I thought my reply was honest, soft spoken and polite. If you make the claim that telling you how radiometric dating is used is an insult than there is absolutely no point in discussing anything with you. Reality is not an insult (unless you refuse to accept reality, that is).
C14 works very well for up to 50,000 years. The Shroud of Turin has been dated to about 800 years ago. 800 is less than 50,000.
Sorry, but the shroud was tested and shown to be of Medieval orgin, so there. And I don’t know why you mention 50 000 years in this sentence, unless you’re claiming that the shroud is older than 50 000 years. See Carbon dating is effective for things UP TO 50 000 years old. Get that? That means 50 000 years or less!
I can do science me!
TO pentatomid
Subtle sense of humour. To pen a phrase, I wonder what your other ‘godbots’ think about that.
I do not misunderstand, there are many false gods out there…..
@ Cassandra (CCC(P))
Most certainly. Myrmidons are in short supply, so your skills will be much appreciated. (You are aware that we are not talking about ancient Greece style myrmidons, but the mindless followers, schooled in cruelty of contemporary times. No spiffy uniforms (with mini-skirts and “bucklers”) – more a case of grunting loudly and snapping at the enemy.
@ chigau
Do not be intimidated by the wallpapers sent over by A.R. We have new weaponry, in an advanced state of testing, to repulse the enemy hordes. (((((You do play tennis I pressume? (Linky.) A.R appears at 00:23 in the demonstration movie.)))
[whisper] Perhaps we should put the spiffy uniforms in the recruitment videos. We’ll break the news after they have signed up in perpetuity. Mwahahaha.[/whisper]
Nope, not even close. Nobody is presenting solid and conslusive physical evidence for your imaginary deity, and only a fuckwitted liar and bullshitter, who is consciously lying and bullshitting, would say that. Which is why you are laughed at. Oh, and we are much more moral than you. Statistics show that. You are more likely to be jailed, a drunk, a drug addict, a wife-beater, etc., than atheists. People can be good without your imaginary deity, and do a better job of it.
No, it shows your lack of understanding of science. You keep pretending, it like religion, is a “revealed” knowledge. It isn’t. It is a cumulative process, made in very small steps, where these small steps build an edifice that your imaginary deity can’t blow down. Because it all fits together and makes sense, unlike your “revealed” knowledge, which goes nowhere and contradicts itself.
Your sarcasm is noted, along with your inability to understand what the evidence means. You aren’t an expert in anything, and your opinion, like that of the “well meaning fool”, it invariably wrong.
More inane fuckwittery on your part. There is no one dating method. Any element that has radioactive isotopes can be used for radiometric dating. Which elements (parent and daughter isotopes) is used depends on a number of things, one of which is the half-life of the parent isotope. Carbon-14 is handy for recent times as it has a half-life of about 5800 years. But, scientists also use potassium 40 with a half-life of 1.3 billion years, and various uranium isotopes with half-lives also in the billion of years. They were used to determine the age of the earth. And you have presented no hard and conclusive physical evidence to show that the methodology is wrong. Just your inane, stupid, and utterly fuckwitted and worthless opinion that they don’t work. I’m not taking your word for anything, as you lie like a cheap rug.
Odd, one moment you claim the scientists didn’t examine them, and then the next you say there are studies…
Holy shit you are terrible at this, for reals. Also, ‘godbot’ is a pejorative for people who believe in god – so you would qualify as an ‘other godbot’. Personally, I think his claim is more valid than yours; at least we can demonstrate he exists, which is a lot more than YHWH can bring to the table.
WEll, we agree on that, I just add YHWH to the list.
TO pentatomid
After years of discussion, the Holy See permitted radiocarbon dating on portions of a swatch taken from a corner of the shroud. Independent tests in 1988 at the University of Oxford, the University of Arizona, and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology concluded that the shroud material dated to 1260–1390 AD, with 95% confidence.[4] This 13th to 14th century dating matches the first appearance of the shroud in church history,[56] and is somewhat later than art historian W.S.A. Dale’s estimate of an 11th century date based on art-historical grounds.[57]
Although the quality of the radiocarbon testing itself is unquestioned, criticisms have been raised regarding the choice of the sample taken for testing, with suggestions that the sample may represent a medieval repair fragment rather than the image-bearing cloth.[58][59][60] In 2005, Raymond Rogers, who conducted chemical analysis for the Shroud of Turin Research Project stated that after further study he was convinced that: “The worst possible sample for carbon dating was taken.”[61] However the report of the dating process, written by the people who performed the sampling, states that the sample “came from a single site on the main body of the shroud away from any patches or charred areas.”[62] At least four articles have since been published in scholarly sources contending that the samples used for the dating test may not have been representative of the whole shroud.[5]
‘I can do science me!’. Not proven, many other scientific test done after that contention and still no answer to an item not being exposed to C14 bearing acurate results as well as an explanation as how they created the image in medieval times (seems they were much brighter than what we are, with all our technology!). Seems they could do science, them.
DH666: As for the ‘millions of papers’ (gee, I really need to explain this one), there are many millions of valued scientific papers in many fields (31+ plus and counting) but to use all of those to attempt to validate your theory is not just mind-boggling.
Like Nerd said, science is not revealed like your Babble, we’ve been working up to this level for hundreds of years in spite of religious attempts to slow or stop progress. And I can understand why they’ve tried, because once you look down a microscope or up a telescope, it’s very difficult to look at the Babble the same way again. (Ever wonder why so many scientists are atheists?)
blockquote bork
Heh. I’d like to lob in another point for DH to take a swing and a miss at.
DH at #106
Short of putting a bullet through your brain, assuming of course one is expert enough to hit the two functioning neurones you possess, no one can stop you having thoughts, such as they are. But here’s the thing: not all thoughts are equal.
The term “freethought” doesn’t mean that all thoughts are accepted. Thoughts that are logical, coherent and supported by evidence are valuable. Thoughts that are illogical, incoherent and lack evidentiary support are worthless. This community encourages the former and mocks the latter and finds great entertainment in those such as yourself who are incapable of distinguishing the two.
I’d also like to point out that religious epistemology has given the world around 30,000 different answers to the question of who is this god and what does he want. 30,000 Christian sects that is, all using the same fucking source material. Never mind the thousands of other religions out there. Why, it’s almost as if the thing they’re trying to define isn’t there to be defined, or perhaps it’s just that their methodology is fatally flawed. Nah, that can’t be one or the other, gotta be both to reach that level of divisive uncertainty.
So, danielhaven,
the Catholic church allowed their most precious relique to be tested and they cut off the wrong piece?
But now, does carbon dating work or doesn’t it?
Is the medieval period result correct and the problem is that they just used a bad sample (which is possible, after all. We know all kinds of problems with making sure that carbon dating tests the real thing, like reservoir effect or contamination of samples), which would still mean that the earth is much older than you claim, because of carbon dating, or doesn’t it work at all in which case you citing “evidence” that the sample was bad is just dishonest?
Thou shall not lie…
Also, the moral bankruptcy here seems to be much kinder than human than what you have to offer.
TO Nerd of Redhead, OM
Again, the same page as the the previous page as the previous page. Lots of space and nothing to say.
I don’t understand. That means with the invention of the telescope, there was nothing there where you looked and now there is something there and this then concludes that an explosion occured and we can prove this. If I may ask a stupid question (isn’t that what you have been doing all the time, what is on the other side of the sun?
You are 100% correct. I am a total dim-wit, I would not even pretend that I could understand it all even with the prolific scientific knowledge we have at our disposal right now. There is so much more to learn and that will be the challenges of future generations as well. BUT YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS….
TO ruteekatreya
I do not claim anything, what you read there was as stated before. If you cannot understand that as you cannot understand ‘Also, ‘godbot’ is a pejorative for people who believe in god’, then you perhaps need the fabled internet interpreter.
Oh shit, dannieboy thinks I have a subtle sense of humour… I must be doing something wrong.
See that, dannieboy, that ‘exposed to C14’ crap. That’s just you being silly. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding here. Please explain what you’re C14 exposure problem is all about.
Total incoherent lunacy on your part. Exposure to carbon 14 is ubiquitous, as it is present in the atmosphere in carbon dioxide. It is incorporated by plants into the polymers that make up their fiberous material, usually cellulosic materials, is present there in the same ratio it is present in the atmosphere. So, it is present in the shroud, in all parts derived from plant materials. Not just the repaired parts. Keep in mind the RCC had a big hand in selecting the parts to be tested, not the scientists. But, I have no doubt that it didn’t matter in the long run. Your deity doesn’t exist, jebus is a myth, your babble lies and bullshits like you do, and the shroud is a fake. Not hard conclusions for anybody without delusional and presuppositional thinking.
Actually…
Huh?
To Ben Geiger, creepy manipulative misogynist whiner: nobody likes you here. Go the fuck away. You are even less welcome than the douchebasket creationist, who’s at least a chewtoy.
Danielhaven: lol, u mad. And scientifically illiterate. It’s very Dunning-Kruger to see you trying to pass off the nonsense that fooled you off to people smarter than yourself.
There are three isotopes of carbon — 12C (about 99% of carbon), 13C (about 1%), and 14C (a tiny and unstable amount of atmospheric carbon). The different numbers refer to the number of protons (always 6 or it is not carbon) plus the number of neutrons (6, 7, or 8 depending on the isotope).
When a plant converts CO2 to O2 and sugar, the oxygen is sent back to the atmosphere while the carbon is used to make sugars inside the plant. This means that the ratios of carbon isotopes in the plant is the same as the ratio in the atmosphere. When the plant is consumed by an animal, the animal is ingesting the same ratio of isotopes. When the animal, or plant dies, the ratio of 12C to 14C is the same as the atmospheric ratio.
Then, however, the 14C isotope begins to decay radioactively. Every 5,730 ± 40 years, half of the 14C decays to Nitrogen 14 (14N). By measuring the amount of 14C in comparison with the 13C in the organic carbon within a bone, or a piece of wood, or a wool fibre, or a flax fibre, or any other organic, non-fossilized, item that is less than 50,000 to 60,000 years old, an accurate date of when the organism died can be determined.
When the Shroud of Turin was dated, they were very careful to test multiple pieces of the sample. This way, if there was contamination from a later date, there would be multiple dates. Six samples were tested using two different methods. The testing protocols were some of the most restrictive and careful ever. They even tested other items with known dates using identical protocols.
The verdict? The Shroud of Turin was made from flax that was harvested in the 13th or 14th centuries.
Whoops. I just spoke of reality. Did I insult you again, DanielHaven?
Your question is stupid. What do you expect the answer would be, since we on the Earth orbit the sun and see all the sky on all sides of the sun over the course of the year. Or, are you trying to pretend the science fiction that another Earth-like planet orbits exactly opposite the Earth? Or that it couldn’t be seen by our satellites in solar rather than Earth orbit? That is why it is a stupid question.
TO Giliell, not to be confused with The Borg
There are several points to this. One of them obviously questioning any person’s goal and aims in giving some form of false information that needs to be tested. Secondly, the question of an item not being exposed to C14 for a period of time is not being answered. Rather this question is being answered by other questions. What has been said neither confirms or denies the accuracy of radio-carbon dating. If you were to pre-suppose that the dating is 100% correct, why is the explanation of the image so difficult? It is convenient to say that the age has been proved therefor we ignore the rest that we cannot prove. It is not a difficult question. As I said before, I was reluctant to bring up anything to show that there have been scientific studies done for this very reason. And for this very reason, science allows me to believe in GOD and I do not seperate the two.
To Nerd od Redhead, OM
Gee, that was quick, you didn’t need pages but in your limitless world, you cannot see on the other side.
It has been answered. You either do not like the answer, or or you do not understand it. Neither is equivalent to the question not being answered, and you are lying when you claim it is.
Just so you are very clear, C14 is ubiquitous in the atmosphere and the oceans. There is no issue of nil exposure.
Now a while ago I asked you via facebook if you intended to carry on being an idiot, and you answered no. Why did you lie to me ?
Have I missed something? When did painting on fabric become difficult? Hell, right now, I’m wearing a t-shirt with a screen print on it — y’know, paint on fabric? Or is this another argument from incredulity (someone said they don’t understand how it was done so it must have been magic)? If so, Daniel, you continue to disappoint me. Which, considering my low standards when it comes to creationist fundogelicals, is pretty damning.
Why do you keep lying? I thought your holey book said you shouldn’t do that?
Nerd was not the one who thinks the sun does not rotate, and nor was he the one who thinks the earth does not orbit the sun.
You are clearly very ignorant.
At last, he says something I agree with.
Heh. Funny.
Indeed you don’t.
TO Matt Penfold
I clearly must be.
To Og#666
Then clearly just setlle the debate and publish that it was your paint on your T-shirt that created the image, have it verified and published and thus the debate could end.
Woops, blockquote problem. Oops. Let me fix that.
Yep, again no argument there.
Wow, turns out I agree with danielhaven on a couple of things.
Onto more serious (well sort of) business.
Stop talking about that C14 exposure crap. It’s nonsense. It doesn’t make any sense at all, as has been pointed out to you. Danielhaven, here’s the deal. If you want to be taken seriously, you will explain to us how you think carbon dating works and what this problem with C14 exposure is you keep banging on about. Any organic substance, including the plant-based fabric that makes up the shroud of Turin, will contain C14 in accordance to the amount of C14 in the air (which is present everywhere). If we’re misunderstanding you’re question on C14 exposure, please elaborate and make us understand. If you can’t, then fuck off.
So are you claiming that if the thing did turn out to be ca. 2000 years old, the ‘how the fuck was this created’ question would magically disappear, because JESUS? Or are you saying that since we don’t know how the image was created, we can’t say anything on the dating of the shroud? See, we’ve dated the shroud and it doesn’t match your precious bible. We don’t yet know how exactly the image was created, but so what. That’s what science is for: figuring stuff out! An unknown does not equal magical sky daddy.
danielahven
It actually is. Several people have done so.
Go back and read how carbon dating actually works. Unless you claim that there was a time without athmospheric C14, or that those very plants grew without any of C14 your “question” makes no sense.
It is?
How come?
Ehm that’s called honesty.
You know, why bother with claims that cannot be tested, proven or falsified?
Why should I bother with fairies and unicorns when contemplating how to protect my lettuce? There’s slugs and there’s things that have been proven effective against slugs.
If you cannot “prove” a claim (i.e. support it with evidence), your claim is void.
Jeepers. You don’t even understand the evidence for the expanding universe.
No daniel. We don’t think the universe is expanding because better telescopes allow us to see more of it. *facepalm*
We know the universe is expanding because red shift shows that the distant stars we look at are getting farther away from us, and the farther away the stars are, the deeper the red shift.
To pentatomid
‘An unknown does not equal magical sky daddy.’
By the same token, an unknown does not not equal a magical sky daddy, my GOD.
Have to run now but the zombie will be back soon on the C14/dating concepts.
For those that cannot read my incoherent english, lies and bulls…, it does not mean in the next couple of postings.
What an incoherent statement. What other side? The sun rotates, so we see all it’s sides. If anything was exactly opposite the Earth, in Earth’s orbit, we could infer it was there. Gravity. It would effect the other planets, and any satellites passing through the neighborhood. No deflections are seen from the expected paths.
Gee, sounds like the godbot is thinkng that scientists behave as he and his fellow godbots do, lie and bullshit ad nauseum. But science doesn’t work like that. Honesty and reproducibility is required to be a good sciencist. Which means scientists don’t make shit up to fit a conclusion, but let the evidence lead the way.
It has been throroughly answered. There is no way for anything not to be exposed to carbon-14, especially growing plants that incorporate carbon dioxide (the source of carbon for plants) into the plant structures. And that occurs at the same ratio as in the atmosphere. Keep your inane and incoherent delusions to yourself. You won’t sound so incoherent to the world if you do so.
No presupposition, but conclusion based on the evidence. And I saw the image being forged on a “Nova” show about the shroud, using available materials from that era. It is a forgery.
The two are separate. Science is a methodology that ignores your imaginary deity, and works very well to promote knowledge for humankind. Your deity is a delusion in your mind, and you haven’t shown any evidence otherwise. Stop lying to us.
You don’t even need the three C-14 tests to know the Shroud is a medieval fake, danielhades. The image itself gives the game away. For starters, the body shown in the image has not been prepared in accordance with the Jewish burial custom of the time. Instead, it is shown the way medieval Italian artists commonly depicted JC’s body.
It’s a medieval image, made by medieval people, so it looks the way medieval people thought it should look, not the way an actual Jewish deceased man prepped for burial in Jerusalem circa the year CE 30 would have looked.
Second, you have an image of a man who is a good six feet tall. In ancient Jerusalem, this would have made his height remarkable. As in, “That radical new rabbi is remarkably tall.” It would have been one of his distinguishing features. Yet JC is never described as being tall.
Third: the image on the “rear” part of the shroud shows both shoulders lying flat on the ground. Yet on the front side, the left hand is modestly covering up the awesome* bits. This is only possible if the left arm is remarkably longer than the right – same usage of “remakarbly” as above. He would have been quite unusual looking, and people would have talked about it.
Fourth: the spots and drips of “blood” on the shroud are medieval pigments.
*Note: at first I wrote “naughty bits” there but of course if JC had used them for anything but changing wine into water it would be awesome, not naughty, right?
It’s been done. But then, you won’t believe it anyway, since it goes against your presuppositions. You are the one with the closed mind, not us.
You see Daniel, your opinion, which is proven to be lies and bullshit, isn’t going to change our minds. That requires third party evidence where you step away from the claim. Preferably citations to the peer reviewed scientific literature, since scinece is only refuted by more science. And your opinion isn’t science, just drivel.
Facepalm. Do I really have to explain the whole ‘argument from ignorance’ and ‘burden of proof’ thing here. Jesus Babiroussa Christ, this one’s dense.
And yet you all insist on engaging with him.
Though I am hardly the person to complain.
Continue poking the rock like troll with your sticks.
Hum, you do get the fact that hypothetically, if the plant material of the shroud had been grown unexposed to C-14 (a feat spectacularly out of reach for iron-age illiterate yokels), it would appear older, not younger, right ?
DH666: At this point, all I can say is: You’re doing it wrong! You’re trying to argue against science with RDFs (rectally-derived facts). That usually doesn’t work out for religious people here.
And you’re aware that there exists other dating methods besides C14 and that they all give consistant results ?
Reading between the stupidity, I get the feeling that Daniel doesn’t understand that once the plant is harvested, any further uptake of carbon-14 ceases. The amount is fixed in the fibers and the cloth made from those fibers (the shroud). Only decay of carbon-14 is occuring. Animals pick up carbon-14 by eating plants and other animals. Unless the speciman is very near a nuclear reactor, no significant formation of carbon-14 is occurring by any mechanism. Which means the storage conditions aren’t very signficant.
That’s what I suspect. It’s why I asked him to explain his ‘C14 exposure’ problem a couple of times now.
I know that in the UK C14 dating has been done on samples that have also been dated using written records and dendrochronology (tree ring dating for the illiterate).
Danny boy would no doubt be surprised to learn that the dates obtained from each method are consistent with each.
theophontes
I don’t do tennis.
and I’m still waiting for my uniform.
In my reading this morning, I noticed that Danielhaven has written two coherent sentences and made one correct spelling of a rather obscure word.
Is this accidental, or evidence of a god?
Oh, and theophontes, we have predicted your pathetic attempt to resist us. Our OG-OG’s are shielded against tennis ball attack.
And you Godwinned out theophontes.
50,000 years? Obviously DH is trying to tell us that Jesus was an agent indoctrinated by the Reapers.
@ chigau
I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that we have located images of myrmidon uniforms and so can produce exact replicas. The bad news is we had to pay the myrmecologists for the image and can’t afford the natty helmets. I propose we go with the one second from left: Image of myrmidon uniforms. (N(necessarily)SFW) (We must keep an eye on the budget.)
@ A.R
No real nazis, those are actors in a Dutch television commercial. ANYWAY: As Self-appointed Benevolent Dictator for Life the clause “Quo licit Tardigrada, non licit bovis” applies.
theophontes
Nice uniforms.
Do they come with the penis?Is the penis included?
@ chigau
Penis…?
{theophontes, puts on bifocals, looks more carefully at image.}
Eeeuw. Penii! I thought they came with bells and whistles…
myeck waters:
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the nailholes in the palms of the hands on the Shroud – which (again, please correct me if I am wrong) is a translation/interpretation error, and the Romans nailed folks up through the wrists?
I don’t recall where I encountered this bit of info, so I have no idea if I’m talking utter bullshit here – anyone care to clue me in?
Thanks!
Info from Xianity days: Long story short that depending on how you nailed someone to a cross it is physically impossible to hold them up via nails through the palms. The imagery of a wet paper bag comes to mind. Now if they TIED you to the cross instead or in addition it might work, but the typical depictions of the cross would indicate an anatomical problem of Jesus actually being held to the cross via his palms.
[GRAPHIC]
Definately through the wrist. Crucifixion was meant to be an incredibly slow and painful execution. Hanging by one’s wrists, with the only support via a large nail through both ankles, created not just the pain from the nails, but also very slow suffocation (unless someone took mercy on the victim and broke his legs first). If the nails were through the palms, it would very ‘easy’ for the nails to slide through the flesh, leaving the victim hangin by his ankles — very painful, but not as painful as the slow, extermely slow, suffocation.
I always wondered about, damn, Padre Pio? The priest who bled from the palms of his hands? Anyway, I always wondered why the Church didn’t call him on his obvious bullshit as the holes were in the wrong place to be a supernatural reenactment of the crucifixion.
Interesting.
Wikipedia (for what it’s worth) sez that there’s only a single example of a verified executee of the Roman practice, and no mention is made of anything hand-related (just the feet).
So, it appears to perhaps still be an open question.
Additionally I had been told by a friend from the Classics that the Romans would in some cases hold you up by the arms and provide a rest for the feet so that you could, with effort raise yourself up to stop the suffocation. This made the death worse as it caused the person to prolong their own suffering due to their survival instinct and they would die once they were at the point of exhaustion and couldn’t support themselves any more.
I always had this problem with Peter’s death. According to myth he was granted a reversed crucifixion because he argued he didn’t see himself worthy to die like Christ…but that also guaranteed a less painful execution. I never could figure out if that was a mistake in the story, mercy from the Romans, or Peter out smarting them.
@Anri
I have also heard some people question using nails at all. The Romans did sometimes but a friend said they would also just use rope in some places. Because nails as metal were more expensive and had to be pried back out for reuse.
Nerd of Redhead @140:
For what it’s worth, I think that was a different PBS program, Secrets of the Dead: Shroud of Christ?. But thanks for the mention; off to see if Netflix has it now–sounds like a good debunking. (My own early interest in skepticism was sparked by a 1977 Nova program that debunked the then-popular Bermuda Triangle nonsense…)
𝕎𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℍ𝕒𝕞 𝔽𝕦𝕔𝕜𝕚𝕟𝕘 𝕊𝕦𝕔𝕜𝕤!!
I’m only up to 105, but I couldn’t hold off. Long range scanners indicated upcoming temporal rift @ T+ .53×10¹º hundredebentysillionsmega comment instances, so I thumbed a ride. Only have a few trillionhundredelebenty before time reversalsymmintree braking renders dh666+ben.666 exponential! Halp!!
Hi, ben ;)
No luck yet, eh?
I have to expose a womanoid to carbon to date it!? I thought you waited until you proposed!
Curiously, UDNA* arose, suddenly, 2000 yrs. ago, now look at us.
* Un Dead Nucleic Acid
Well, nuts. Apparently it’s not available…
What are they hiding?????????????
Very possible. It was a few years ago.
I didn’t have a problem with Benjamin’s photography (which may just be an exhibition of my ignorance of the medium, IDK; but then, I make no claims about my “artistic sensibilities” in general, holding with the “I don’t know art, but I know what I don’t like” approach). It was his some of text material. He is not required to be All Suck, All the Time!!!, 24/7, to be objectionable.
–
a barbarism in any language
I love being able to say/write this: Yeah. That was last century. Long time ago.
Ogvorbis #161
I seem to recall reading an article a few years ago which claimed a stigmatic’s wounds tended to match their favorite crucifix. Naturally, True Believers handwave that away.
Funny (as in, not funny at all) how when you think about crucifixion in terms of what it actually was – a horrendous method of public execution for criminals of low status, runaway slaves etc. – it really brings out how revolting and twisted it is to use the image of someone being tortured to death as an object of veneration. Yeah, it’s supposed to be the sacrifice that’s awe-inspiring – but we don’t express our admiration for people who have suffered and died for good causes (e.g. victims of Apartheid, or victims of the Argentinean Junta) by fetishising the instruments of torture used to kill them. The whole zombie-on-a-stick thing is sick.
If you look at the high cross in Clonmacnoise, the Irish monks interpted that piece of text as tied to rather than nailed to and that’s how it’s depicted. Which brings up the whole multiple translations.
a horrendous method of public execution for criminals of low status, runaway slaves etc.
It was not so much “criminals of low status” (common criminals wouldn’t have rated such elaborate methods usually, and individual runaway slaves were still valuable property if they were recovered so they were not typically executed –anyway the killing of slaves was allowed at any time, for any reason or none at all, but it was not a civic matter, it was the owner’s decision); it was very specifically “the ultimate penalty” in that it was maximally humiliating, and, probably most important, it meant that the victim almost certainly would not receive a proper funeral, which was a fate nearly universally considered worse than death itself. It was, above all, a highly visible deterrent against the worst possible crimes, basically treason and insurrection.
And to top it off Jesus got off easy. Killed by a spear!? WORST! CRUCIFIXION! EVER!
Right it was a message from the Romans to everyone in the Empire: Preserving the Pax Romana is serious business.
Crucifixion = crucifiction?
I highly recommend the Pfft! article on crucifixion for those with a strong stomach. Very informative.
–myeck waters (!)
–Joyce, Ulysses (The Ballad of Joking Jesus)
A.R. @146:
-HA HA HA! I’ve never heard of RDFs. There’s got to be a Santorum joke to go with that.
@ Tony
Well, the joke writes itself really… we all know that santorum is a rectally derived fact.
The first digit of the comment numbers are missing.
Who’s got ’em?
‘fess up.
chigau: Oh, the porcupine ate them.
Who’s been neglecting the porcupine?
We don’t approve of that kind of thing, here.
The ones look like logs, porcupines enjoy chewing on logs. Think about it like a dog chewing on furniture.
OK then.
@ chigau
About the uniforms … we might have to put them on hold.
As an experiment, I tried out the one suggested in the picture. Although it is very comfortable (and can be worn in the shower too), the neighbours made a bit of a hoo-haa when I wore it out on the balcony (it drip-dries very well, but the comments they were making!… *blushes*) Obviously we need a rethink, though I can’t quite get a grip on the problem itself.
theophontes: If you got a grip on the problem with that uniform, you would be destroying the RCC!
theophontes
If you are gripping, that might be part of the problem.
So Jesus was crucified. Big flippin’ deal. So were lots of other people. Two other people were crucified right next to the big guy, simply for stealing, and that’s in the book.
He got off easy, crucifixion-wise, and then spent 36 hours in Hell. The bad thief is still there, and hasn’t even made a dent in eternity. But Jesus paid for all?
As for nails in hands, I too have heard that it wasn’t the practice. But I have also heard that some Tarahumara Indians in Mexico actually used to crucify a man each year, as part of their Passion Play, and take the bugger down alive at the end of the day. Some old men were still around with scars in the palms of their hands, and very proud of them. Which is to say there may be empirical evidence on the issue.
As for the shroud, the image is wrongly proportioned. Look at the hands modestly covering the crotch. Then, guys, try duplicating that pose and see where your hands wind up.
I like the idea that the shroud image was formed by painting a image on glass and letting sunlight affect the cloth. There are some weird stripes on the image that look to me like wrinkles under glass.
jinx‽
pickypickypicky
jinx‽
{theophontes is reading “Idiots Guide to Godbots – new abridged edition“, Chapter XXI: Feeding and Care}:
Holy Bovine! I have been rather neglectful in my pet-parenting duties of late. {shouts in Barbara Woodhouse voice} “Foodies…!”:
@ DH666 121
No Daniel, I think this is where you have your thinking particularly muddled. Only a person with a religious sensibility could believe that anyone or any THING (such as jeebus or sky-daddy) could have all the answers. Nerd would certainly never make such a claim nor even suggest it. Though the scientific method is a means to approach truth more and more closely, it will never lay claim to Truth ™. That last is a religious concept.
I am struggling to understand why it is that you wish to grapple with particularly difficult scientific questions in the manner that you do. You are, as your statements and questions clearly indicate, “not even wrong”. You have not the training, language or even the simple honesty to hold forth in a discussion of these questions with Nerd. You embarrass yourself without even knowing it.
But there is a way out. We can try and bring the level of discussion of science down to a level where you might perhaps gain some traction. It is not just in science that god has quite simply lost all relevance, but also in the fields of engineering and technology.
Every day I use a scientific system that is based on disproven science (does this not cheer your little xtian heart?). The system to which I refer is Newtonian Physics, which was proven NOT to be universally applicable – by Einstein Himself! So there you go. I confess to using science that has been proven wrong. And in spite of this, it is a good enough approximation to let me use it effectively in engineering design.
Your challenge is this: Can you you give me a single example where a belief in, or knowledge gained from, jeebus and skydaddy (or whatever imaginary god you claim to worship) gives any unique advantage or benefit to humanity?
(I do not even care if it is right or wrong in terms of scientific truth. This is a very pragmatic challenge.) I cannot think of a single one. Perhaps with your superior knowledge of your own chosen god (or Its intervention on your behalf) you can come up with a solution.
@ Menyambal — damned dirty ape
[theophontes experiments} YES!!! That solves the problem with our uniforms!!!!elebenty!!!!
(I can haz happy. We can haz happy.) *dances about singing*
theophontes
That is not an image I want to go to sleep on.
{[*more wine*]}
Benjipoos:
Lest you be operating under your usual persecutional delusion that it is merely the “usual suspects” picking on you and being meeeeen, let me assure you that there are many, many of us who are fully aware of what a repugnant shitstain you are and have no wish to indulge your assclammery here.
Kindly fuck the hell off.
Hmm, I wonder where the evil LOLcat invasion fleet is… {Looks at computer screen} Dammit, they hyperjumped onto the desktop again.
Perhaps the Pullet Patrol™ sent them in the general direction of Utah.
Utah could use a LOLcat invasion. Perhaps they can do something about that Mormon temple in Salt Lake City…
@ A.R
Problem solved. Mwahahahaha…
Oh well, the invasion fleet was only a cover so Ratzo could complete construction on the LOLstar II. I suppose I’ll have to settle for the less than complete version. It still has a main LOLcat projector three times more powerful than the original LOLstar’s. I’d use the LOLstar one until the second one gets finished, but we lent it out to AT&T so they could zap jailbroken iPhones from orbit.
Oh, and did I mention the new 1,000,000 sievert threadwide radiation projector? Run tartigrades, run!
tartigrades can’t run!
tartigrades can’t run!
1,000,000 sievert
They can glow
Oh, so that’s the deeper meaning behind when Jadehawk wrote “I’m against principles, on principle” !!
The molecular estimates are also ancient* and just about uncalibrated.
Of course, 600 is a bit on the low side for the first animal. There were mollusks (Kimberella) 555 million years ago.
* In molecular phylogenetics, as a rule of thumb, every paper older than 2001 is best politely overlooked. In molecular dating, that holds for even younger stuff.
I think ignorance alone accounts for that.
Heh.
Because the big-C Church always latches on to popular religious movements and takes them over whenever it appears remotely possible. Is cheaper than suppressing them, and looks better. Standard operating procedure for well nigh 2000 years.
*nodnod*
You’ve misundreshtmated individual variation. My forearms are long enough for that pose! You : Neandertaler :: me : you !!
However, as explained in comment 141, that’s the length of only one of the arms on the shroud (the left one). The other arm has more usual proportions.
*facecouch* X-)
Deinococcus radiodurans FTW!!!
U. Uranium is just U.
(Even in Soviet Russia, Uranium was U!)
It says somewhere in the OT that if you breed sheep around rocks, they’ll be spotted; around sticks makes them striped, see?
My paster(please, there is an ample explanation, praise the Lord) tells me one morning, after I posted a link to a brutal fucking condemnation of Xinnanity on facebook(if you want to saa a lame news page, I got it, fuck is it lame – full of Xian friends from program here), says the bible had medical knowledge beyond the times. He tells me that young lads are to be circumcised at 8 days, which turns out to be the best/safest time to do it, medically speaking. You know what I said? I said, “Wow….” I was actually too dumbfuckingfounded to speak.
So, about the sheep, just kidding, DH666.
P.S. Thanks to Ogvorbis for the inspiration for ‘Xinnanity.”
That’s decent, maaaaaan!!
Considering the conditions of the time and ignoring the question of legitimacy to actual circumcision, isn’t that like God telling you to dunk a dagger in wine first before jabbing it into your leg?
Hey! Mine’s more like a finger in size, especially after jabbing it with a wine(Jesus’ blood?) soaked blade.
Wonder if Jesus had:
Syphilis
Definition
Syphilis is an infectious systemic disease that may be either congenital or acquired through sexual contact or contaminated
needlesknives.@ David M.
Mommy!
@ mikmik
.
@ A.R
I trust you are aware:
… ie: No more DDMFM!
and:
… ie: No more DH666.
DH666, I realize that this may have been crossing the line when I said that West Ham Sucks. I was unkind and it’s my own fault(you’re a chick, right?) for failing to take your feelings into consideration.
Which brings up another thing I said, you know, the thing about breeding sheep around sticks makes them striped, like it says in your text books.
I didn’t mean to imply anything, for as you know, I believe in the right of all humans and zombies to freedom of expression and speech.
So, just to be clear, I have no problem with your methods of heredity, and others may choose a more genetically nuanced approach, but feel free to practice whatever works for you.
I am sure there will be time to cover more misunderstandings and such, we’ll be here for a while.
Yours,
Mike ‘West Ham Sucks’ Laing
What the fuck is this
{There is a flash of light in the sky over the thread, a fully finished LOLstar two appears in orbit} theophontes, I have you now! You cannot escape the threadwide radiation projector! [{Talking to minion in weird black helmet} Charge the radiation projector, divert power from the LOLcat projector. You may fire when ready.]
LLPL, I believe that was sarcasm and blues.
No, no, no. ;)
Recap: “In Soviet Russia, UF6 centrifuge purifies you!”
Or: “In Soviet Russia, titanium smelting works spy on you!” (True story.)
There would appear to be a problem with the LOLstar’s power distribution systems. The radiation beam projector isn’t getting enough power to fire.
A. R
Is it plugged in?
chigau: Yeah, I sent one of my minions to check.
A. R
Have you tried re-bootying.
(or whatever kids call it these days)
{Mumbles something to a minion} Ha ha! the device is online. Fear me theophontes!
Hello.
Is this thing on?
Well, now that you ask, yes, yes he is. He sure talks like one, that’s where he learns about science.
Wicked! These dudes aren’t even human·
theophontes 777, I didn’t realize that you tarts are wee spots!
·
@ A.R
Say WUT…?
…
@ chigau
{looks @ # 220}
ET TU CHIGAU ???
There are no zombies here.
We do not hunger for the *cough*
tasty raw bloody*cough* flesh of the living.We are totes normal living people like you.
@ cicely
Whatever you do, do not read the following – it cannot be unread:
Immortal horses that, jeebus-like, share in the suffering of
manhumankind. We are fucked. (But at least animals get into heaven.)@ cicely
It gets worse. The horses have the support of Almighty Zeus (who has a low regard for teh hoominz):
Oh, I dunno. The bump drafting made for some exciting passes.
@ Brogg
I shall pass this on, next time He pops in for tea and cookies.
…
If you thought steampunk was cool, check this out (Homer’s predictions) …
Robots:
Type I (Transport):
They where used for delivering pizzas automagically.
Type II (Humanoid fembots):
Type III (Industrial Robotics):
Pretty cool shit. And bear in mind that this became canonical about 400 years before the YHWH bullshit.
@ DH666
The beauty about science, is that it can be predictive. It can predict things that will happen in the future. Religions like to make predictive claims yet fail abyssmally to predict anything. The sole exception it seems would be the Classical Greek Religion. It would seem Almighty Zeus kicks your god’s ass.
Steampunk is not cool. It is hot, greasy, inefficient, loud, greasy, hot, messy, and really hot.
Oh you hideous beast, you’ve come all over my umbrella.*
Louis
* This bears repeating in many threads.
theophontes
What did I do??‽
@ Brogg
All the more reason to turn away from steam and follow Zeus, the Cloud-Gatherer and His Son Apollo, the Far-Destroyer.
@ chigau
You helped A.R to insert his plug in a socket to power the LOLstar! {waves tardigrade claw in chigau’s general direction.}
@ Louis
Sometimes a plug is just a plug and a socket is just a socket.
What about my Cohibas? Are you going to claim that they are ‘just cigars’?
@ Brogg
Not if you are the President of the US of A.
theophontes
I suspect A. R is getting his “technology” from here:
http://axia.ws/axia/html/sttbg/index.html
I ain’t worried.
@ chigau
The replicator appears to be functioning normally chigau. Perhaps you were referring to the personal matter array, right here, beside this exterior flux chamber. If we use the communication baseline tricorder to align it with the primary graviton panel, then… Yes! We have found a way to encode our messages.
(Unfortunately we can only communicate babble in this fashion.)
theophontes
If we use the tribismuth warp beacon in multi-harmonic thermal mode we’ll be fine.
I think.
I tried that. My unicorn become a bicorn because of that tribismuth stuff. Don’t go there. Trust me.*
* A 200 pound unicorn turning into a 2,000 pound bicorn (no I do not know where the extra mass came from (maybe the Catholics know?)) is not fun. Even with the cigar.
@ chigau
Now we are talkin’!
@ brogg
uni-corn –> bi-corn —> cigars —-> Tadaah!
Wait, what?
Unicorn bacon?
I’m having a hard time getting the generator to do naughty stuff:
polyquantum gel emitter
nona-annular reaction shaft
Nope, my technology is very real!!! Now, witness the power of the LOLstar’s radiation beam projector (set on low) {BZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! – CRACKLE, POP, HISS} Did I irradiate anything with that shot?
My mini cigars just became Churchills. Thank you.
Was that you?
𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓶 𝓹𝓸𝓹𝓼 𝓪𝓷𝓭 𝓱𝓾𝓶𝓼 . . .
𝓘𝓽’𝓼 𝓽𝓻𝓪𝓷𝓼𝓶𝓸𝓰𝓻𝓲𝓯𝓲𝓬𝓪𝓽𝓲𝓸𝓷!
𝓤𝓷𝓲𝓬𝓸𝓻𝓷 → 𝓫𝓪𝓬𝓸𝓷.
“Was that you?”
No. As I *ahem* said before:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/01/11/episode-ccxc-might-as-well-give-up/comment-page-1/#comment-242019
It’s this guy:
http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1814327
(Although, it was surprisingly hard to google “changeable moniker pharyngula varnish” and come up with the right answer.)
—
On the radio now:
G’n’R: Patience. *glum*
Although! PZ mandates zombie influx here.
(There’s a couple of other Sb rumbling threads that are candidates.)
@ cm’s
Hallelujah!!!!eleben!!!ty
Our prayers have been answered.
Praise be to Almighty
ZeusEbil Oberlawd ™@ PZ
{theophontes tries to squeeze burning hecatomb down the USB port}
A due sacrifice is on its way Oh Tentacled One…. {genuflects} … I trust the sizzling fat is to Your liking.
Well, if non-tartigrades are going to show up, I’d better power town the radiation beam.
If FtB in the same timezone as Sb?
No.
Sb is one hour later.
So time travel should be possible between the two blogs.
{A. R runs out of the LOLstar bridge, down the corridor, and into a small storage room. A few minutes later, he comes out with a strange looking device with a button labeled [a href=”http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/”]Time Travel[/a href]. Back in the bridge now}
Is this what you’re looking for chigau? {Presses button} Time Travel: 1 Hour to Future
Kewl: 800 BC Proto-zombies …
{the scene: A dark and stormy night (not really, it just sounds more hexciting) on a beach near Troy, Thetis works on the corpse of Patroclus}:
Thetis: “Whole years untouch’d, uninjured shall remain,
Fresh as in life, the carcase of the slain.”
Then in the nostrils of the slain she pour’d
Nectareous drops, and rich ambrosia shower’d
O’er all the corpse. The flies forbid their prey,
Untouch’d it rests, and sacred from decay.
@ chigau
We should seek to procure some of those Nectareous Drops ™ (“now with extra drops of Ambrosia”). We could keep Teh Zombie Thread going foreber! (I have it on good authority that “no flies” = “no A.R” We could kill two flies with a single swat. Safety and immortality in one fell swoop…)
@ A.R
En masse!
hhhmmmmm.
So how can we use this secret to further The Agenda™?
({[What is the html for that tricky underline hidden message thing?]})
@ A.R
The future is … shrews?
Maybe PZ can post the results of the horse races to Sb on Wednesday evenings. We could split the proceeds.
{{{Note to self: 99% theophontes, 1% Poopyhead … I mustn’t get greedy here.}}}
@ chigao
.
Rump swine capicola, corned beef sirloin hamburger jerky biltong crackling
———————————————————————————————————————–
({[Here you go: Bacon Generator … for use when discussing The Agenda ]})
I think I’ve got it.
@ chigao
You have much to learn, young grasshopper.
@ cicely
Talking horses sure as
hellHades beat the silly talking ass in the babble:(Yeah, them horses are up to no good, AND trying to pass the blame again.)
Don’t hover over this
(PS: The title at the top of the biblical chapter is “Balak Sends for Balaam”. By some coincidence, the other horse teamed with Xanthus is called Balius. … Therefore Jesus!)
Listen up, buddy.
I don’t care if youz the Benevalent Dictater For Liff, the ‘nym is chagau not chagao.
@ A.R
{Chorus, in unison}:
…
{theophontes dons flame proof g-string, just in case.)
A. R
“theophontes and/or chigau”‽‽‽
I have never been “and/or”.
Them’s fightin’ words!
Put ’em up, put ’em up!!!
@ chigau
{{thinks: “oh noze! this will lead to insurrection.” tries to claw way back up the thread to change teh data.}}
{Speaking to minion in weird helmet again} Charge the weapon!
That’s enough wine for me.
chigau
chigau
chigau
{reads #267, thinks: Eeexcellent!}
Minion in weird helmet speaking} Weapon power at 25%. Preparing to divert power from the primary LOLcat projector array to the Weapon.
{theophontes sets out bag of microwave popcorn in path of death ray.}
{Speaking to minion} A thirty thousand sievert shot at that popcorn please. You may fire when ready. {Minion speaking} Commencing primary ignition. Firing in 3, 2, 1… BZZZZZZZZ!
The remains of theophontes’s popcorn.
@ chigau
@ A.R
Well Done! That is what Tardigrades like best.
That’s it. {Speaking to minion} Full power shot at that ash pile. You may fire when ready. {Minion speaking} Commencing primary ignition. Firing in 3, 2, 1… BAM!. Anyone still there?
I am saddened.
I returned to this thread. This thread. And what do I find?
Nothing.
There is no scorched earth. The LOLtroppers are lollygagging. The tardigrades are mounting a wee production of Hello, Dolly. The radiation gun seems to be running on the power of the promises and unicorn bacon farts.
DH666 is boring as ever. It’s amazing there isn’t a Terri Schiavo-like congressional hearing to determine the likely mental state of this person. There is a Silicon Valley startup which recieved US$1.8M to harness the potentially-unlimited boredom produced by DH666. Yet I haven’t seen a single proposition on coupling the bore/ons from DH666 with the radiation gun.
Disappointing, I say.
The hell you say!
My miniature Cohibas were turned into Churchill’s by that thare radiation gunthingies. Not disappointing at all.
(Not only that, they are now (Shhhhh!) Cuban Cohibas, not Dominican. Don’t tell the FBI or customs. I now have real Cuban Cohibas thanks to that radiation gunthingie.)
@ Brogg
Many men suffer from small “Cohibas”. We could monetise the LOLstar threat by offering a discrete service to such people.
Zumtimez a tseegar iz yust a tseegar, noh?
@ Brogg
The tests on the lab rat speak otherwise.
Is there a date for this Hello Dolly thing?
*turns head* Polarize the hull plating.
Best quote from there:
LOL!
(“The bridge having been made, Caesar passed.” Or “When the bridge was done, Caesar passed it. Easy-peasy.”)
OFFS.
Shields at 99.9 %, thanks to the polarized hull plating (no doubt).
David Marjanović: What kind of shielding do you have on that thing?
chigau, there is a date for the first show: April 1.
There is, unfortunately, no venue.
nigelTheBold
They could fix up the old barn!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeyLetsPutOnAShow
chigau:
TV Tropes? Nnnnnnnoooooooooooooo!!!!elventyone!
Someone might look into a TV Tropes ray gun. It sucks all time from the targets.
Even I won’t build that. Waaaay to evil for me. (Though the LOLstar could probably be modified to fire TV Tropes links at trolls.)
theo:
*Googles*
Ah, Pope! Arnold does not approve.
*fetches Q++, flips through to p. 411*
Hm. This could be fun!
TO
According to Matt Penfold, I am being boorish and very ignorant which he posts in a personal space that he has no right to. Unlike guys like ‘Nerd’ that says I am ignorant and incoherent,dumb and stupid, and others figure that I’m just a chew toy, non-religious but Christian enough I can stand up on this blog.
I do not hide from the Truth.Truth be told, you can throw any Religion at me and try define it’s place. While you actually sit there and think that we are stuck in the mud of confusion and of things you believeare static. Many of us are not stuck there and many are what you would refer to as ‘your species’
Obviously, he doesn’t relate the fact that I am a juicy chew toy and as is always said, it takes many kinds (or species). If I was told to f…-off, I would definitelaty f…-off and truth be told PZ has…..
I am left with no choice except to say that I would rather prefer to be in an open debate, especially on free thoughts. I do not fear the truth at all and while I accept many keep asking questions, many find true scientific answers and many are deluded [pick the fence].
So, never wanting to bring it up actually knowing the natural response, I shall respond as they do.
Radio-carbon dating 1988…many more studies and a glass theory. Previous statements were that nothing was studied and all scientists are part of the ‘Evol of Evolutionists’.
So, fair to say as dumb as I am, I was going to go down your holy grail [carbon-dating]….and before you go whinge-whinge, cop-out, poor martyr, etc,I am willing if the bug gets out of my space. Is it that difficult to infiltrate, the bug that is
But Now, I speak like you do. You cannot prove in a lab, the beginning. Somehow I missed where you separated it and the second part, abio-genesis, that you also/definitely cannot prove. As in the Shroud, once you disprove something at the start, the rest is meaningless (except for the glass theory that cannot be explained today),theory dies. If you tried to put it in a format today that would equate, many writers, many scientists……how would your book read that you want people to believe in? There was one suggestion before, J.K. Rowling and Harry Potter (Nerd before).
I [Yes, the poor martyr] is labeled as being a slave to what was historical (hysterical), being un-educated (may give you a step up but does not define you)
P.S Network connections 2012.
P.P.S My favourite Historian…the one of the 31+ that is laughed at or used as an agenda. You laugh at it, use it how you want to but most importantly, YOU DO NOT LEARN FROM EVEN CURRENT HISTORY and you want to believe in WHAT? History? Only based on millions and billions at this stage?
See, the scientific debate about butter and margarine is not a progressive debate, it is not an evolutionary debate, it is purely a CASHHEID debate.
So, now that you feel that you are in your comfort zone, that dem bones tell dem evol.
Just as a silly question, never mind if yours could sort of walk or hang off tree’s at the same time or millions years apart…Bones do not prove brains [which you claim to have], as with eye’s, heart, digestive system, as not even questioning you on plants, or symmetry….or can we speak scientific as before…Zimetry.
Part of my belief is that the abio-genesis is actually part of your evolution theory because you cannot in a scientific lab prove the actual main parts of who we are. A couple, or million, sporadic bones does not define the human race of today. I will not even ask you, as you are intelligent enough to ask yourself, does a bone in a rock define you?
And one nerd, or many, have to explain their answer. I have been pushed to so-call prove….Get this, Boffins….bones do not count anymore.
As I listened recently to a person who has studied the brain for +/- 25 years, not one of you but there was a patch that equated. Whether all is meat and there are a couple of bones to spit out is always a real deal.
“Can I please answer, please…please”.
The answer is simple, they saw before they could walk and their brain just went ‘poof’, you can…..3 million years ago?
To stand upright or have a missing link, such as a curved toe, you had to have a brain to know what to do with it, eyes to see that you can do it and the physical parts to achieve it.
And the ‘Evol of Evolutionists’ tell us that it is all in dem bones found in dem rocks, dem is why they are here and udder ‘Evol of Evolutionists’ from the future [as predicted], will find dem bones.
According to Matt, Judge, Juror and exterminator…it is more fun to listen to him.
P.S.Quoting rhethorical phrases historically and laying claim to those phrases is meaningless. #777 But I somehow get that it is the actual code between you and Chi-Chi
To Mike ‘West Ham Sucks’ Laing
Keep looking up, BOET.
Apart from that….
Known as the : ‘ACADEMY OF FOOTBALL’
Pick a top team (except Arsenal as the are 95% foreigners) that does not have a Hammer connection.
Somewhere in the consistency of management when the CASHHEID came about, after Harry the system seemed to disolve. CHANGE IS FOR THE BETTER, TELL SIR ALEX. Icelandic investors.
Leeds? Plenty cash. sommer bought Rio. Cash splash, face smash, dig ourselves from the bottom, once proud now just tuning.
West Ham do most certainly not suck, the football they are known for is the football they should be playing.
P.S. Drawn far too many games and amazingly still there, the click is coming….so watch
As for all the above, I would suggest that any response would be reasonably meaningless as I am polite enough to know what certain situations are worth, and we been through some of the worthiness of those situations.
A healthy debate, a healthy clash of wills and the awesome ability to vigirouusly debate should never become personal, wait….let me rephrase that…a fact that you can link to some’ones social page and put a message their from a blog site gives you what rights. When you are stalked, hacked or V’d, how do you feel? Over a conversation of different beliefs?
Really, this forum is an open forum to abuse a free thought that you disagree with.
My support, both my Hammers and my Cheetahs,are grounding schools for natural talent….My support started decades ago and I am still proud of my teams.
How do scientifically show a supporter of a team, as an individual, in a laboratory?
Is this becomming the third claim to fame?
Raaawwwrr! The zombie arises again!
TO
FROM the bo…boo…boerish one, kinda spell different to you but stil a zombie.
To put it politely, if I asked you to keep quiet for two weeks(or forever) when there was this fun loving chirp for a free chew toy and an invite, sometimes even an order (once).
As a Zombie and as TZT threads its way, you may see that Matt Penfold is so scientifically, factually correct. Never boorish, intrusive or arrogant. Gee, you just have to admire such perfection.
One thing is true, there is a lot of space out there. And some jerk has to step in it as if though he is some wise-ass. Well done Matt, for whatever it is that you think you achieved foryour cause.
So, I have been told privately by one of yours.
He can infiltrate, cannot do it here. His opinion is the most important and that is why Free Thought is so important to him.
Free Thought…not random garbage (however spiced up)…Belongs to?
Daniel, on the back of WHU’s surprising equaliser, I offered a virtual beer here:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/03/13/tzt/comment-page-1/#comment-289086
Dunno if it’s a Castle or what, but take it, sit down, and chill out while I try and make sense of what you’re saying.
And for the sake of discussion, let’s just head off some responses:
Nerd: “Still no evidence for your imaginary deity”.
Matt Penfold: anything about 14C dating.
theo: Homer’s horses (too much, even in Pope’s rendition).
A to the R to the Death to the Star. Well really!
Something more imaginitive is, I feel, required.
http://djer.roe.ac.uk/vsa/vvv/iipmooviewer-2.0-beta/vvvgps5.html
Via: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17539315
What do you think “Truth” means?
If it were true that there is no God, would you hide from that?
Would you question with boldness even the existence of a God?
If you were wrong about God — or about your understanding of science — would you want to know?
Would you be able to admit that you were wrong?
What do you think “true scientific answers” are? How do you think that they are arrived at? Do you really think that it’s just a matter of picking a side of a fence?
Which beginning? You mean, before the Big Bang?
So what? Why is that important?
What if there is no “beginning”?
Actually, they do. If the bone is older than an infant, then the individual that had the bones lived long enough to not die from being brainless.
What do you mean by “who we are”? That’s a very vague phrase.
What is it that you’re trying say cannot be proven?
They define the bones of the human race. How would you know that a skull or an arm bone was human, unless it looked enough like other human bones to be similar to them?
No. Brains do not go “poof”. Brains develop, and learn. They change in many generations of individuals over a long period of time. “3 million years” is an estimate that covers a range of time; scientists understand that it’s an estimate that covers a range of time.
Not exactly. Brains — and bodies — have something called plasticity. That does not mean that they are made of plastic. It means that brains react to new signals, and change according to circumstances. Brains learn and grow in response to feedback signals from the body, even in non-human animals.
DH666
I’ve never played golf, ever.
If you commented in Afrikaans and we translated it, would you make sense?
—-
cm
Nice!
Oh my, DH666 must have been mutated into a super-troll by the residual radiation from the Weapon.
I kinda like this for a t-shirt.
@ cm’s 298
Not Homer’s. You write about this as if it were fiction.
We need horses. Who else is going to eat the merchandise of (Horace) Vandergelder’s Hay and Feed? Monkeys?
Hey, we are adapting Hello Dolly to a new medium.
Making new things takes time. And one must allow for mistakes. Trust the creative process. {waves paws in air}
We are making huge changes to the original play. The Judy Garland character is being replaced by a tardigrade of great repute. (A Thesbian of note. A Great Leader and bona fide Self-proclaimed Benevolent Dictator For Life. I cannot divulge the hero’s nym at this stage as we have to keep the punters in suspense.)
oobs!
{enter theobhontes stage right. changes b’s to p’s by pulling down their little levers to the “off” position}:
ThesbianThespian… ahhh that is petter!
TO cm’s changeable moniker
Nerd: “Still no evidence for your imaginary deity”.
Answered : Not something that can be repeatedly proved in a lab but having had doubts about the concept of being re-born, yet again stressed that it is a personal experience and a personal belief. By simply placing your brain and what you think you know as the answer is pretty delussional.
“Still no evidence of your big bang” – DH666
Matt Penfold: anything about 14C dating.
Answered : Simple reason is that this D-Brain goes out of this space and does little personal attacks in my space. The reason you bow down to him and I have pretty much had my final say. I would have loved the 14C debate………
theo: Homer’s horses (too much, even in Pope’s rendition).
A to the R to the Death to the Star. Well really!
Something more imaginitive is, I feel, required
Answered : You deal in details to such minute limits that your imagination grows from pica’s, nano’s, micro’s and whatever. More imaginitive, watch replies to Owlmirror. As for the imaginitive responses so far, you should all award yourselves with either gold/p;atinum stars (red actually sucks)
P.S. Something more imaginitive is, I feel, required.
Really would not want to even think what you imagine, though Chi-Chi does.
TO Owlmirror
If it were true that there is no God, would you hide from that?
Would you question with boldness even the existence of a God?
Both questions are easy to answer, the second first. I have many times questioned, not only the existence but many other aspects including pain, love, suffering. As difficult as each situation was, the answer was there in front of me. The first question, second….IF (small word, big meaning) it were true, I would not hide but many others that pretend to dominate our lives would hide. This includes those that pick a fence that they know, maybe when they are older or dead, they will be dismally disproved and the so-called peers that attach themselves to some dumb theory.
Just by the way, seeing as you brought it up, what was before the big bang?
What if there is no “beginning”?
I presume you would say that there is no “end”, even when you die.
AND finally….Bones and Brains. Again very selective. While you attempt to explain the plasticity, you leave out simple things like the heart, eyes, hearing that would have somehow have to happened concurrently. You take a bone and make it look like some walking, talking missing link.
To Chi-Chi
Threw in a touch of SAfrican taal previously, the internet interpreter was also confused. The one response I did get was for “Chow”. Do as Romans do in Rome, but in the south….respect but not much to do with Romans. It just simply rhymes.
Oh, and by the way, pretend that I can still not speak the ‘aingelaise’ as you would smaak.
Golf – there are better things to do than putting balls in holes.
To A.R.
Always works with a dumb comment to pick on who you think is the weakest link.
@ DH666
{to the accompaniment of big brass band in orchestra pit}
This is going swimmingly! Though I do think you would do better in the part of Scaramouche.
What was the answer?
Why do you think it was the answer, and not a mistake?
Why would you think that it wasn’t true?
I don’t know. No-one does.
Why does it matter to you? We do have evidence of the big bang. Cosmologists are trying to figure out what came before, based on analyzing the evidence we can look at, and look for.
Of the universe? No, the universe does not end when I die.
When I wrote ‘What if there is no “beginning”?’, I meant “of the universe”. The Big Bang is the beginning of the universe that we have evidence of. But some cosmologists suggest that there has always been something; that time, space, and the laws of physics, have always existed, and can and do give rise to multiple Big Bangs, some of which are like ours.
This is a suggestion, for now. They are looking for evidence; for ways to see if this is true or not.
What do you mean by “selective”? I’m keeping it as simple as possible.
Why wouldn’t they have happened concurrently?
Even now, not every human is the same. There are many differences between humans; sometimes very large differences, in size, weight, and proportion. Obviously, they are all human — and the changes in all of their organs do happen “concurrently” in each individual during development and growth.
There are no “missing links”. There are transitional organisms — and we are all transitional organisms.
Can you understand this article?
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/use_and_abuse_of_the_fossil_record_the_case_of_the_fish-ibian/
Sometimes one bone can indeed tell quite a lot about an individual — if you know enough about bones.
Look at your hand. The bones of your fingers are all approximately the same size, and have a distinctive appearance. If archaeologists found just a thumb and forefinger many years from now, they would have a rough sense of how large your hand is, and therefore, an even rougher sense of how large you are. They can look at the isotopes of the minerals of the bone, and get a rough idea of what your diet was. The bones reflect the life.
I’m not saying it’s perfect knowledge of the living individual, but it isn’t nothing, either.
@ Owlmirror (&DH666)
Daniel has pushed the sky-hook, that he hangs his belief on, to these kinds of questions. Why oh why can he not keep it simple? Science works in the here and now. YHWH does not.
I asked DH666 this question upthread @ #194 (direct linky):
Anything Daniel, anything! Stop running to the ends of the universe to hide your god.
I have placed a cunning trap on the nice thread, since the zombie could use a bit of long pork.
(Pre-scrambled braaaaaaains)
The other night, I saw Zombie Strippers with my better half, who had recorded it (free-to-air on Aussie TV).
Yup.
Zombie strippers it promises, zombie strippers it delivers.
(Can’t argue with that!)
@ John M.
Ground round rump tongue corned beef brisket, biltong beef venison speck strip steak flank short loin. Pork pork chop t-bone, om,nom,nom, you will certainly receive a promotion when the trap is sprung … braiiinz!
danielhaven:
There is no ‘Truth’. There is reality, but you, and your ilk, are determined to deny reality. Fine. Keep it to yourself, keep it out of schools, and keep it out of government. Running a country based on the idea that ‘Truth’ exists is, as we can see in the US right now, a recipe for disaster.
Depends what part of the skull was fossilized. There are some very well-done casts of the brain cases of dinosaurs. And, knowing what we know about brains, we can figure out, with a fair degree of confidence, what part of the brain did what in the animal and, thus, what it may have been good at. If we can do that with dinosaur brains, why can’t we do that for hominids? And I have to ask this: what is your brain good for?
Do you know the definition of strawman? It is when you define your opponents position incorrectly and then argue against that invention.
Er, no. You have that backwards. It is you claimign the existence of something for which there is no evidence. You have convinced yourself that you know the answer. That is your delusion, not Nerd’s.
Y’know, my kids learned not to put their fingers in their ears and shout, “Nyaah, nyaah, nyaah, I can’t hear you,” when they were about five. It is unbecoming in an adult.
Evidence for the existence of any god, please.
Holy fuck! The density is strong in this one.
Not to mention the incoherence quotient.
I think danielhaven is absolutely correct on all counts.
Sorry, you lost thatd one earlier when I first linked to it, but I’ll link to it again for the lurkers to show them you fail to understand the concept of evidence. Microwave anisotrophy. Evidence for the big bang, as exactly predicted by theory.
No, they didn’t all have to evolve at once way back yonder. Typical creobot drivel, as they can’t prove their creator exists, and can only attempt by their extreme ignorance to try to throw doubt on science. But that requires more science, which they never, ever, use. Notice not one link to any evidence, much less scientific evidence. Just inane and ignorant opinion attempting to masquarade as expert (HAR!) opinion. But its all lies and bullshit from the incoherent and ignorant.
DH666, quite trying to pretend your ignorant and presuppositional opinion is evidence. That is why we keep laughing at you. Category error on your part, and why we keep demanding third party evidence to back up your inane statments. You lie, bullshit, and ignore reality with your opinions. That has been well established.
TO nerd of redhead
Did you seriously send me to the left overs of the big bang to prove the big bang?
To Og666
If there is no truth, how are you all going to come up with the “EVOL” morals that we are still waiting with bated breath for. Although, maybe, when you say there is no truth the actual meaning to that is closer to home than you and your ilk would desire.
Did you seriously send me to the left overs of the big bang to prove the big bang?
Unless you have access to a time travel machine, that is how we can tell what happened. The echo of the Big Bang, the background radiation of the Big Bang, and the way the galaxies are distributed and the way they are moving are relicts of the Big Bang.
See, this is how we can find out what happened in the past. Whether one is studying history (my (albeit limited) forte), palaeontology, geology, or cosmology, the present, whether it is extant documents, fossils, metamorphosed rocks, or the left overs from the Big Bang, is what we can actually study.
Are you made of neutronium?
Did you seriously send me some evidence for your imaginary deity, or that your babble is anything other than mythology/fiction? I sent you evidence. Conclusive physical evidence that matches the theory. Now, where is your third party evidence incoherent and over opinionated fuckwitted ignorant lout?
To Double 7 Seven
I have also answered many times previously but you can look at the sun setting on a beautiful African horizon and say, that is just science…the earth must rotate. I look at it and see the beauty of that setting sun and that amazing skyline.
A young 23 year old man collapses from a heart attack, is proclaimed dead for 78 minutes and is revived. Beyond that, the recovery is something to speak about. These are parts, similar to many in the threads so far, where you hear the words ‘I cannot explain it now……’.
My God is not hiding and I am not hiding Him. He is right there next to you but your blinkers and closed mind reject him for personal reasons only you will know.
TO Chi-Chi
And there is a perfect bottle of wine to go with the beautiful African sunset….and sunrise….and
DH666:
Well, you could have kept on reading: There is reality, but you, and your ilk, are determined to deny reality.
The reality is that the codified mores in the babble are primitive and barbaric and their very basis is ludicrous.
(Ain’t hard to do better)
To Nerd of Redhead
Let’s do it your way.
I sent you evidence of my not imaginary deity.
Now, where is your third party evidence incoherent and over opinionated f…witted ignorant lout?
You keep acting like OPINION is evidence. It isn’t. Your opinion is worthless, since you are a proven liar and bullshitter. Third party evidence liar, or shut the fuck up.
Ah, irrelevant data that is meaningless. We’ve heard this drivel before. OPINION, not evidence, as no citation was presented.
Then show us, not OPINION US,
And your link to the evidence, not your opinion, is where???? You lied about sending evidence without it. That is typical of liars, bullshitters, godbots, and incoherent louts like yourself. Third party, preferably the peer reviewed scientific literature is required, as it has been from your first illogical and inane post. Zero, zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING…
To OG666
Nah, me is just zombie. Unless you studied zombies, me might have some of that juice in me. It does linger in the atmosphere, does it not?
Because everyone knows scientists can’t appreciate beauty.
“Just” science ? What you’re talking about, you do not know.
I refer you to the inimitable Feynman.
I can do both. I can also see crepuscular rays and, while knowing how they are formed, think they are beautiful. I can look at a red sun setting on a humid day and, even knowing why the sun is setting and why the colour is so odd, and still think it beautiful.
Beautiful is not an argument for gods.
Please explain what part of the bible tells about how to perform CPR, how to intubate a patient for oxygen, how to treat a patient suffering from severe hypothermia, or any other medical device or practice? The fact that things like this can, and do, happen is a credit to scientists who are willing to look at reality rather than rely on a 2,000 year old book of fables.
Your god is a 28-pound cat who is, right now, licking his anus?
Still waiting for something other than OPINION DH666….
Where? When? If you did, it would be the first time in recorded history. So where is this evidence? Beauty? Medical skill and knowledge?
Yes, the stench of you lies does linger.
To Nerd of Redhead
As I have said before.
It does not matter what happens in the world around you, your bible and what you pretend to study is the be all and end all of your universe. You can only wear one cap [and no Daniel, you did not say Du…stop it]
But I must admit, you do a great job promoting the evol’s.
P.S. I know this is really bad but I am kind of glad you are not….stop it.
OPINION, who the fuck cares what you said? We here at Pharyngula don’t except to laugh at your incoherence.
Don’t worry, you almost embarrassed yourself, but stopped in time. But you still did. I have no imaginary deity, no holy book, no church. Your bible reference is meaningless and an example of an incoherent thinker trying to be funny, and failing. I gave you the science and how to look at the world through non-delusional eyes, but you failed to listen. Typical.
To Og666
Simple quote, man was created in God’s image thus the fact that man/woman/person learns to do CPR is very simple.
The fact that we always are striving to learn more, to reach new frontiers and to create a path of wisdom shows us how far we still have to go.
This I can easily live with.
And your answer to this limits itself to “oh, look, god”, “it’s all a big mystahry, dontcha know” and “it’s a meericle”.
While our reaction is “WTF happened”, “how did it happen” and “can whatever the fuck happened be used to save someone who has a heart attack ?”, while still being happy that the poor chap survived (if his brain remains in a state that enables him to to other things than drool, stare and smile).
I know which attitude is the most useful, and it ain’t yours.
TO John Morales
‘(Ain’t hard to do better)’ – and much easier to do worse!
How do you know it is your imaginary deities image? Oh, that’s right, your book of mythology/fiction…Carry one delusional fool, you’re doing a better job of showing the lurkers you aren’t worth listening to than I can with a hundred posts.
Godbots can’t learn more. There is nothing outside of their imaginary deity and mythical/fictional babble worth knowing. Knowledge is expanded by scientists, who tend to be non-believers. Not making the case you thought you were with inane OPINION.
Who cares what your OPINION is….
To Nerd of Redhead
I did not lie, you just deny
Then link to the conclusive physical evidence, or shut the fuck up as the liar and bullshitter you are….
And you continue to lie. First off, I have not decided to call you danielasshole, have I? My ‘nym is Ogvorbis, so knock off the lies and the bullshit.
Second, if what you say about learning to do CPR is true, why was this not available to save lives 100 years ago? Or 1,000 years ago? Because it took people, scientists and doctors, who were willing to understand that the bible is not the be all and end all of human knowledge. If your bible were still accepted as the only viable source of human knowledge, I would not have a synthetic opiate to ease my pain. I would not be using an electric lamp. I would not be conversing with you on the web.
Third, the fact that we have gotten anywhere, that we have extended human life, that we can have this conversation shows how far we have come from the time when my ancestors accepted the bible, and biblical exegesis, as the only useful books on earth. We have escaped the biblical literalism which would make a literal hell on earth for all but a very tiny few. We have escaped the kings and queens of the bible. We have left behind the slavery, the misogyny, the racism, the cruelty, and the inhumanity of the bible. And you, and others like you, want to pull us back. I say not only no, but over-my-dead-body no.
You lie in almost every comment you write. Your claim that the bible shows how god created CPR is a perfect example. Doesn’t your book of mythology have something to say about lying?
TO kemist
So if no sherbert happened you would be out of a job unless you can hop, skip and jump to the next step that also proclaims that you have evidence of abiogenesis and it is now fact.
Where do I sign up?
This does not look like you are “questioning with boldness even the existence of a God”. Where’s the questioning of your own premise, here?
Do you really think that there is no other possible explanation for people being able to learn CPR?
After all, CPR is just a series of actions to move the heart (hopefully to get it to start again or to keep the person alive until more extreme measures can be used), and get air into the lungs.
What does that have to do with God?
Are you sure that you told the truth, though? Are you sure that you didn’t make a mistake?
To Og666
Tut, Tut, Tut.
I did not say God created CPR and the only way that you all can portray me as a liar is by twisting words in such ludicrous ways that you may even end up giving science a bad name to honour yourselves.
Nope, you said “god”, and your lie is there. You deity is imaginary, you haven’t demonstrated otherwise with solid and conclusive physical evidence, proving your OPINION isn’t worth the electrons used to post it…
Abiogenesis, as a process, must be a fact because life did not always exist, and does exist now. That is, we have evidence of life now (obviously), and we have evidence of how the Earth was in the past (lifeless). So abiogenesis must have happened at some point before the signs of life appear as evidence in Earth’s history.
But there are still many hypotheses of what the process of abiogeneis was. Some might be wrong. More testing and evidence-gathering must occur.
Why do you think that abiogenesis is not a fact, or cannot be a fact?
danielhaven (please note that I do you the courtesy of actually using your ‘nym/name):
You said that god created man in his image and that, therefore, CPR is not surprising.
The odd thing is, it was surprising.
And no, your god, and your stupid book, had nothing to do with the human development.
My keyboard thanks you, Ogvorbis. (Are you sure you’re no relation to that family? You seem to share a certain … um, zest and vitality :-) )
To Nerd of Redhead
It would be quite interesting to statistically study how repetitive you are in your blogs. Very seldom answer anything, rant and rave for proof and then dish and swear because that is your last resort.
P.S. This is not an OPINION but a fact (my peers told me so)
danielhaven, you made a crude intimation that being made in the image of Him makes it simple to explain why men and women and persons learn CPR.
(At its best, it’s a non sequitur; in practice, it’s a clumsy lie)
—
PS It also invites the question of why, if both men and women are made in the image of your god, your god is not a hermaphrodite.
TO Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family)
My profound apologies and I will refer to you as above out of respect.
TO John Morales
EXPLAINED.
As to my reference, I was being politically correct as even that is singled out and picked on.
TVert in Safrica – SERIOUS
danielhaven:
Now, if you can argue with respect as well . . . .
Ummmmm….Owlmirror
You were obviously there when earth was lifeless.
You too. Still no evidence, nothing but OPINION. BORING TROLL…
No, it isn’t the last resort, the first for real scientists, and I am one. Either supply the evidence from sources outside of yourself of shut the fuck up. We’re (meaning the blog) is still waiting for your third party evidence for almost anything. Your OPINION isn’t evidence. That is what frosts your cupcake.
Since you didn’t link to the alleged peers, it is your OPINION. I’m not interested in your OPINION.
No, I wrote: “we have evidence of how the Earth was in the past (lifeless)”
Don’t you think that misquoting someone deliberately, or misrepresenting what they wrote, is a form of lying? If so, you just lied.
Or did you just misread, and make a mistake?
Can you admit that you made a mistake?
danielhaven:
Good on you.
But you haven’t explained why men have no breasts* or vaginas, but do have a penis and yet both men and women are made in “His” image.
(Are you being evasive, or is your imaginary friend so inchoate in your conceptualisation?)
—
* Hm. Unless you count manboobs as breasts.
(I don’t)
TO Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family)
I am not arguing. There are many points of view about many things [what is the greatest song?], etc.
We have different world-views but I do not debase the discussion to a level of name calling. The same questions you ask yourself are the same questions I ask. Through experiences that cannot be tested in a lab, I have my belief.
And just because of my belief, it does not mean I cannot question certain aspects of science (butter/marg) or whatever.
I certainly do not and have not had any intention to show disrespect, except maybe for ….stop it.
To John Morales
Yip, yip, yip there is some ‘inchoate’ in that them there discussion.
And no, there is little chance to the underlying challenge or you just need to read.
This shows prima facie your statement is a lie. You don’t ask the same questions I do. Like, how can DH believe in his imaginary deity without solid and conclusive physical evidence??? Oh yes, he lies, bullshits, and tells tall tales in the name of his delusion.
Actually is does. Science ignores your imaginary, deity, you don’t. Therefore, your science is tainted by your delusional thinking. We know that, but you are afraid to acknowledge that truth…
Then stop acting like science is opinion, not evidence. You disrespect science and the evidence when you think your delusional OPINION can refute it…
To Owlmirror
Can you admit that you cannot get any form of life from something that is “LIFELESS”?
But you are. You are arguing that radiometric dating is inaccurate. You are arguing that your holy mythology is innerent. You are arguing that science has done nothing and that your version of god has done it all. You are arguing without evidence, arguing from authority, and arguing from ignorance, but you are arguing. And, since your arguments are fallacious, you are arguing in bad faith. In other words, without respect.
Actually, that is what the evidence says. Unlike your OPINION, which is worthless lies and bullshit…
TO Nerd of Redhead
Actually, I should refrain from addressing you as above but perhaps I should from now on address you as the scienceGod.
Ah, maybe not. You will still just revert to name calling and personal abuse (oh, boohohoo)
DH666:
Your onomatopoeic tendencies when you’re hoggling are amusing, but more to the point, you call your god “Him” whilst holding that women are made in “His” image.
(I like seeing you squirm)
I’m no god, just like every other scientist. We’re all mortal hominids. You inane OPINION, which you were poorly attempting to be humorous, and failing utterly, shows you are incoherent, as I have said all along.
It isn’t name calling if I am telling the truth. You are delusional, believing without evidence. You are incoherent, utterly getting how science is done wrong, and failing in your inept attempts to funny. You have no evidence, but keep talking like your OPINION is meaningful to the world. It isn’t…
DH666:
Corollary: Life does not begin at conception.
(Nice admission there, danielhaven)
No, because it is not true.
Life is already made of that which is lifeless. Atoms are not alive. Molecules are not alive. They become part of life during metabolism.
Can you admit that you made a mistake?
TO Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family)
Well, if I am arguing then I do disagree with radiometric dating.
I am not arguing that my God is in-whatever-ent. I am definitely not arguing that science has done nothing (although science is [PC] people) and I am definitely not arguing that God has done it all as we see it today. I am not arguing from authority or from ignorance (Yea nerd, we heard it many times before) and certainly not in bad faith (that word does exist!).
Either way, you will always face someone that questions.
As for respect, I respect a stupid answer because I respect any question asked.
And as an evol of evolutionists, you all say….bu (up the blue bulls) hit it on the nose.
OPINION, you have been attempting an argument from authority since your first post. Otherwise, you would be citing the scientific literature, rather than just expressing OPINION. Third party evidence makes all the difference, and the lack of that shows your real motives and methods.
Again your OPINION of the question is irrelevant. You lie and bullshit.
Your OPINION means nothing. Now, what science do you disagree with, and cite more science from the peer reviewed scientific literature to prove your point…
BTW, danielhaven, you should look up the origin of the term “organic chemistry”.
danielhaven,
You clearly think scientists are wrong to describe the earth as once being lifeless, although this has evidence to back it and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Do you believe scientists are mistaken? Or deliberately lying? Or what?
Well, Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls
The least I can probably do is attempt to be humorous to achieve your scientific opinion (Oh, and by the way) all the scientists on the planet that makes it a fact that my humour is only an attempt. ‘Nature’, here we come.
Finally something truthful. Now, if you stop trying to funny, I suspect that a lot of your incoherence will dry up too. You aren’t funny, just pathetic and ignorant.
Now, where is your third party evidence???
And your arguments against it include the innerency of the bible and your inability to understand how it works.
Wait. You now admit that your god is not inerrent? Your god makes mistakes? Your god screws up? You are now admitting that human scientists have actually created things? But your bible claims that your god is all powerful, all knowing, omnipotent and omnipresent. By your book of mythology, have you not just condemned yourself to an eternity of torture by your loving god? Which is it? Is your god all powerful or do you really think that science has done things? (hint: those are mutually exclusive)
But you are. You continuously change what you claim to believe to suit your current argument. And faith is a word. It is a shitty argument, but it is a word.
Does this mean that any answer you do not agree with is a stupid answer? What was that about respect?
Oh, but we do. And women have penises.
Honestly, haven’t you read Stephen Jay Gould? :)
/rhetorical: I’m sure you do know. And have read.
TO echidna
I do not believe scientists are wrong and there is a majority of scientists, past and present, that have achieved much of what we see today.
It is just you bunch that twist words and endlessly insult that are clinging to a handrail and you can take that whichever way you want.
Or twist it and see it as an insult.
I have no idea what this sentence means.
TO Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family)
How did you even get on that track?
Seriously, no more wine Chi-Chi….no more cigars, 777.
This dude must seriously send us whatever brew, twak or chemicals he is taking.
That track is not even a twist.
A majority (most likely a vast majority) of scientists accept radiometric dating (whether C14, P/Ar, Ar/Ar, U/Pb, or whatever ones I am forgetting) as a reliable way of ascertaining absolute age. Yet you tell us, repeatedly, that
Please reconcile these two statements. You claim you do not believe scientists are wrong and you believe they are wrong about radiometric dating. Which is it?
Please note, I am not twisting your words. These are direct quotes. From you.
This is exactly what you are doing. We are presenting the science as it is. You twist words, quotemine, and lie, which is typical of creobots. You bring nothing to the discussion other than your lies and bullshit.
You keep twisting reality, not us. So, stop twisting reality, stop giving us your OPINION, and start citing the literature…
TO Walton
Study it, figure out a word starting with ‘bu’, scrap a couple of letters and see what the evol’s say.
You claim your god is all powerful (or, at least, your bible does). Then you claim that scientists have discovered and/or developed things. Which is it? How do you reconcile this?
[meta]
Walton,
Welcome to DH666, necromancer extraordinaire and paragon of incoherence!
(Amateur at alliteration, but)
To Nerd of Redhead
IN THE BEGINNING…
TO Ogvorbis (no relation to the Ogg family)
Simply
He has. You are the one full of bullshit. Absolutely no third party evidence, just OPINION.
there was stupidity, expressed by all godbots, that their imaginary deity exists and their babble is something other than mythology/fiction. Science, unlike you, has show their case. WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE FOR YOUR IMAGINARY DEITY AND YOUR BABBLE NOT BEING MYTHOLOGY FICTION. You are a liar and bullshitter until that is presented, as YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS DELUSION.
[meta]
Sheesh, you’re all poking the specimen too hard!
(Look at it cringe — isn’t it a sad sight?)
I’m waiting to hear how you can believe scientists are honest but scientists are lying about radiometric dating.
*hands out grog and swill to the posters and lurkers*
Thanks, but no thanks. The meds for my knee, y’know.
And coming very soon to a screen near you….
C14 vs the incoherent angelaise.
But there’s more….
C14 vs the incoherent angelaise (#666)
Ah! none of us will see that one so lets just go with the first one.
Chow for now.
Citation needed.
To Nerd of Redhead
You are not just a scienceGod but a mind-reader too.
To the ONE that knows it all
Your comments are so weak
Your evidence is non-existence, since your OPINION is not evidence…
It’s Ciao.
So you are leaving without telling me how you can believe scientists are honest but scientists are lying about radiometric dating?
Daniel,
Do you believe that scientists are lying about radiometric dating? Or what?
In paleontology, I learned an old saw about shark evolution as evidenced through the fossil record: “teeth mating with teeth to produce slightly different teeth”.
Leaving for now as I sorta have +/- 3 hours till the rugby starts.
I am not saying that anyone is lying but there are liars (yes nerd, heard you) and that is why the word exists. As do many other words.
As for the ‘Or what?’..check out the screen near you soon.
Radiometric dating, a Xian perspective. Discuss DH666, and refute with scientific evidence, not OPINION.
Actually are are lying by really saying there are liars, and somebody (you creobots) are lying. Typical obfuscation, rather than facing your inadequate evidence. And showing you are the liar by not sticking your flounce. Nice of you too keep proving my point for me…
danielhaven:
So you are leaving without telling me how you can believe scientists are honest but scientists are lying about radiometric dating? Which is it?
So, you are the ONE that knows it all.
Bet even your peers are waiting with bated breath for your mind-blowing revelations.
I don’t know it all. But then, I do know creobot liars and bullshitters like yourself. Could tell the truth if in court and wired to a stun gun. What will be your next lie. Still not sticking the flounce you announced, and you appear ever more stupid and lying with each succeeding post.
danielhaven:
You are the only one around here claiming that you have the one and only answer to life, the universe, and everything — the gods of your bible.
And since your gods do know everything, perhaps you can tell all of us how you can believe scientists are honest but scientists are lying about radiometric dating?
danielhaven is now trying the rare and seldom used Triple Flounce. If this is pulled of with proper finesse, the degree of difficulty can make it a very high scoring flounce. But will he be able to stick the Triple Flounce with finesse? Or will he be back with another Nonsensical Insult complete with Direct Question Evasion? Does he know how harsh the judges can be on an attempted Quadruple Flounce? Stay tuned.
danielhaven,
I think you know that the scientific method is an honest one, and that scientists as a group have great incentives not to lie, since they lose respect instantly and permanently. Individuals vary.
So you know that as radiometric dating is confidently accepted by the vast majority of scientists, it is not a product of lies or mistakes.
This conflicts with your Christian beliefs, and so you would rather dismiss the scientists than alter your beliefs. Your opinion is that if there is a conflict between your Christian beliefs and science, Christianity takes priority.
The thing is, I think you also know that Truth does not need to be propped up with lies. And truth does not contradict truth.
This is one of the great principles that drives science: if there is an apparent contradiction, it means that there is something wrong with either the data or our understanding.
Bwahahahahah…
Have you ever heard the saying, “if triangles had gods, they would certainly have three sides” ? Hint : you’re confusing cause and effect here.
W
T
F
?
Sign up for what. This makes no sense. Please go easy on my poor french-geared brain.
You want to talk about abiogenesis, I sort of guess. So what of it ? As my ‘nym suggests, I’m an actual chemist, my (former) specialty being organic chemistry. Do you know what organic chemists do ? They create, in laboratory, molecules that are made or look like those made by living things. Similar or identical to those molecules that living things are made of. Something that people from about 200 years ago thought impossible because they believed life was a sort of unique, unreproducible substance – this idea was called vitalism.
Vitalism is effectively dead since we know this is possible. There is nothing, theoretically, that keeps life from emerging from “non-life”. Those molecules of life (amino acids, sugars, water, ect.) that we can produce in a lab also have been observed in space via spectroscopy, and so are pretty common and do not need life to arise. They are also known to spontaneously combine in quite complex forms. That is what life is : a complex assembly of molecules that possess hereditary material and can reproduce itself.
So yes, I pretty much think abiogenesis is the best explanation for the origin of life. But even if panspermia is the actual way life begun on earth, it does not invalidate evolution, which we know happened from the evidence we have.
I believe and understand that you feel you had a religious experience. But does that say something about the world? Or just you?
If someone says to me that a meteorite is 4.5 billion years old, I can (could; it was a while ago) take it into a lab and check. See the difference?
That’s the point though. I don’t want to imagine. I want to know.
[Epistemology police, please stand down.]
@ danielhaven 321
Understanding how it works makes a sunset all the more beautiful. Science will not rob you of your sense of wonder, rather it will amplify it.
Also don’t fall for that silly non sequitur: “Look at the beautiful sunset (or waterfall)… therefore GAWD ™ .”
This is common in science. If one does not know the answer to something, it is better to be honest about it and rather gather more data. We cannot simply conclude “therefore GAWD ™ ” every time a question arises. (We could just as easily say “therefore Almighty Zeus” or “therefore my cat”. And with equivalent justification.)
Actually I have a very good idea about how and why your imaginary deity came about. And how he evolved. There is nothing at all special about YHWH. He is one of a vast number of invented deities. Worse still, he is a poor pastiche of far better gods. (All your favourite babble fables were stolen from other religions. Do you not ever stop to consider why this is?)
Daniel, you are delusional. There is only my imaginary cat sitting next to me.
And … er … therefore GAWD ™?
(If anything, that is proof of Dionysus, “The Son of God” who died for our sins and so that we might have bread and wine.)
@ Walton 378
{Types into DH666-to-human mechanical babbelfish}:
—> evol is being used as a collective noun. (It is coining new words now.)
—-> swearing (“bullshit”) cut short?
—-> “The Blue Bulls” are a team of South African rugby players. I presume Daniel is a Blou Bulle supporter. (DH: godfapping can lead to Blue Balls.)
—-> “accurate”? “bullseye”? (The babbelfish still needs calibration.)
theophontes
How’s your internet service?
@ chigau
Huh?
theophontes
Just asking.
@ Chigau
No worries.
@ chigau
No problems.
OOK, then.
@ chigau
No concerns.
For a zombie thread, this is all rather bland.
You forgot blown-out knees and thrown-out backs.
Owlmirror
Does that mean there is a limit to the number of characters you can put in an acronym-thingy?
—
Og≠Ogg
Sorry. Those are bland.
Where are the laser burns, the vampire bites, the injuries caused by have parts of your body time-travel at different rates?
Those are exciting!
(I hope you and Mrs notOgg are mending.)
Not to the best of my knowledge.
Of course, I would not want to annoy PZ by going overboard in testing it.
Who are you, and what have you done with Owlmirror?
A young 23 year old man collapses from a heart attack, is proclaimed dead for 78 minutes and is revived. Beyond that, the recovery is something to speak about. – danielhaven
DH666 is babbling here about the recent case of Fabrice Muamba, a British footballer of Zairean origin, who had a cardiac arrest on the pitch. His heart did not start beating again spontaneously for 78 minutes. DH666 is implying “Miracle recovery – even resurrection – therefore God.” Muamba was attended not only by the doctors of both teams, but by a consultant cardiologist who was in the crowd and ran onto the pitch to help. The patient would have been getting continuous CPR throughout the 78 minutes, on the pitch, in the ambulance, and at the hospital, except when the defibrillator was applied (which it was about 15 times). As long as the blood continues to be aerated and circulated, so neither the heart itself nor the brain is badly damaged through lack of oxygen, you can survive a long time without a heartbeat.
KG, you mean mostly dead?
Ahhh, thank you, KG for the explanation.
AEDs seem to be everywhere these days, which — to my mind — is a massive improvement in emergency healthcare.
Can we introduce danielhaven to kenazfilan?
.
He’s on the Athiest thread.
Here’s a link.
@ chiagau
As you wish.
Oh Lawdy! This thread needs more….BRAAAIIIINZ!
Hi kenazfilan!
kenizfilan, meet danielhaven … danielhaven meet kenizfilan.
@ jonathanbishop
Hi jonathanbishop. meet danielhaven and kenzfilan.
DH666 and kenizfilan, meet jonathanbishop. Feel free to air your views.
@ chigau
Slow here.
theophontes 777: Hmm, perhaps when you get them all here, the LOLstar can unleash a apocalyptic blast of LOLcats and/or facts?
theophontes
yup
({So you can’t format acronyms?})
*crickets*
This party is a total dud!
We hafta do something!
chigau: We could conduct an Old West-style troll drive to TZT. Imagine it, trolls stretching across the plains as far as the eye can see. More assistance may be needed though.
A. R
I think nobody likes us.
To increase traffic what about (copypastepost)
me CCCXIII #71
You’d get r/atheism.
It would be bad.
Oh.
So they don’t attain critical mass, cause a singularity and dissappear from our space-time continuum?
What if we could get them all in the same place, then fire the LOLstar at them at full power?
The combined weight of their stupidity, coupled with the firepower of the LOLstar, should cause an implosion of the thread into a black hole, while sparing FTB. At least that’s what the Pullet Patrol’s back of a poultry feed sack calculations say.
A. R
I am not sure that LOLcats have any effect on such creatures.
Having seen Nerd’s comment, I think this might work.
@ chigau
This is our “Wandering in the Wilderness” moment. Every religion has the heroes leaving for a stint in the world at large. This is de rigeur for religious fables featuring a hero. The best hero is a returning hero ™ who comes back to redeem his community.
(This schema applies across the board, from well written works of art like The Odyssey all the way down to crackpot cults like that of jeebus.)
Keep the faith!!!
@ A.R
Inderdeed!
…
PZ has already tried to drive some of the trolls from Sb across to here. We might well have to reach a critical mass before it can take on a
lifeundead of its own. Perhaps TZT should open a sort of pergatory for those on their way to the dungeon. The banhammer–> TZT —>banhammer2 —>dungeon model may be a good one.theophontes
banhammer–> TZT —>banhammer2 —>dungeon
sounds good to the sadistic side of me (but I’m not sure it would do any good).
And none of your recent invitations have showed fruit :(
Nerd: My thoughts exactly!
theophontes: You owe me a new keyboard ye filthy tardigrade! One without tea!
@ chigau
This is where I think we need to call in the lipstick wielding pitbull. Perhaps we can get PZ to link all unwanted (by other threads that is) trolls to only be able to post here.
Instead of the dungeon, they find they can only post to TZT and nowhere else. TZT ™ would become the exclusive agents for hectoring trolls.
We could run it as a turnkey operation.
@ AR
Mwahahahahaha.
I’m fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, “bad”?
A QWRY keyboard? Do they make those?
Aha! I have found the officer who allowed that cat video through the LOLshield. {Melodramatic voice} You have failed me for the last time Admiral
theophontes
That is exactly what I had in mind.
We could point and laugh.
Aah. A particularly TZT hivemind. We are starting to achieve speciation. (If only PZ would check in on this brilliant thread.
+ 1
I do, regularly, while fondling my weaponry (no, that is not a euphemism.) I look forward to shooting the thread in the head again.
If only WordPress had a means of allowing different filtering criteria for specific threads, I’d be happy to allow dungeon residents access to it. Imagine a Pete Rooke lurching across TZT, or even a ponderous Piltdown Man bellowing pleonastically as the nimble predators here ripped and gouged at him. I’d love to allow the targets to gambol freely in one restricted shooting gallery.
Alas, it doesn’t seem to have that capability. If anyone knows otherwise, let me know about it.
LOOK!!!
We have permission!
Somebody do something!
Shit! Start the backup logical argument generators on the LOLstar! Were going to need them if this works!
Actually, I don’t know in this case whether the heart started beating again as a result of an AED shock, or just got back into gear itself. But the fact that they kept on using it shows that the heart was still alive – they would have had him wired up for an ECG, and the purpose of the shock is to stop the heart, not start it! Most often when your heartbeat stops, the heart is in ventricular fibrillation – the main pumping chambers, the ventricles, are writhing and quivering in an uncoordinated fashion. The shock stops everything and with luck, one of the heart’s normal or backup pacemakers recovers first and starts off a wave of properly coordinated depolarisation. If the ECG showed no electrical activity in the heart (“asystole”), rather than VF, the AED wouldn’t be used. So he quite definitely wasn’t dead (given the exceptionally favourable context, I’d say he wasn’t nearly as mostly dead as the chap in John Morales’ link) – oxygenated blood was getting to his heart and presumably therefore also to his brain.
I got some refresher AED training recently – which brought back the electrocardiology 101 I learned when working many years ago with cardiologists on the design of an expert system.
Hover over this.
A. R
The weather was very nice, today.
If I could to that over, I’d do it like this.
The weather was very nice, today.
HA! HA!
chigau: Nice.
Weather was nice today, here, too.
—> . <—-
…
@ PZ
One idea to get around the problem is if we apply to start a second “blog” under PZ’s wing. This “blog” would have a single TZT at any one time. We could thus be able to set the blog up in such a way that the unique permissivivetity thereof could be integrated into the regular programming. It would appear to be part of the main Pharyngula blog, but would actually be its own devious entity masquerading as a simple thread.
Mwahahahaha…
theophontes: The LOLstar shouldn’t have a problem moving over to a pseudothread.
@ A.R
Rule Number 12345476543456qwerrewqwe: “All weapons shall be checked at the door…”
But what about space-based planet incinerating superweapons?
What “door”?
This one.
Okay, I found a dictionary, now for a translator.
@ mikmik
That being said, I doubt the useful information contained in a bible amounts to much more than that full-stop itself.
.
Does anyone happen to know why the LOLstar’s sensors keep telling me that there is a mass of planets at 472?
Move your irridium paper-weight.
{There is a bright flash of light in the sky as the LOLstar hyperjumps to TET}
@ All Zombies
Now that A.R is away for awhile, we can all run amok!!!
SEIZE TEH THREAD!!!!!!1!!
Zombies?
Where?
Here?
aaarragh
Ha! I have caught you off guard theophontes! I left the old LOLstar behind under control of the Porcupine and Darth Ratzinger/Benedict. Surrender now!
Eeeep!
Zombies are gross.
{creepy aside}zombies are,in fact, not gross{/aside}
This thread is like playing chess by mail.
chigau: Very true.
A. R
yup
@ A.R
Darth Ratzinger could not organise a piss up in a brewery.
@ chigau
hoh hum … the weather is just fine today,
That’s gonna be one weird looking communion line. What, they just keep orbiting the candles?
It’s nice here now but we’re expecting a blizzard tonight.
@ chigau
Oh noze. (and no hidden message means I kept clicking on each letter in turn ...)
Where are you again?
Og
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/ab-50_metric_e.html
theophontes
video?
Chigau:
Well, hell, it’s Canada. Y’all get, what, three or four weeks a year when it gets above 5C, right? I mean, y’all are either at or just below the Arctic Circle so what d’you expect?[/sarcasm]
That actually sucks. 10cm isn’t enough to shut anything down but it is enough to be a pain.
@ chigau
# 484 is fractal (look very, very carefully ;)
@ chigau
ho hum ... It’s a braw, bricht, moonlicht nicht.
theophontes
It‘s still sunny and warm here.
theophontes, weather is great here.
You know, sneaky guys, I’ve got this big blue “EDIT” link on every comment, and can click on it and look directly at your hidden codes. Or even change them. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
A bit of rain though.
Crap! PZ has cracked teh code!
I hafta make bread. Catch you later.
Don’t blow anything up while I’m gone.
dammit
Just as well that we are all PZ sockpuppets, anyway.
Ok. I demand simple instructions on precisely how to do this hidden-ish linky text thing* right now or I will kill you all unto the nth generation with extreme sarcasm and moderate moodiness.
Louis
* I R COMPOOTAH LITRAT