…is to work on uprating this video:
You may recall that today the Mormons are trying to push up the rankings of a truly stupid video which argues that the fact that someone believes in something fervently means it must be true. Don’t bother watching the Mormon video — in fact, avoid giving it any more traffic — and instead follow this link to the Thunderf00t video and click on the “Like” button to vote it up, and also leave a comment. The more input, the better. We don’t quite have the numbers of the Mormon church, so spread the word and get more people to join in.
I like this idea. ;)
The Mormon video has about 6,000 “likes” and 4000 “dislikes,” though. We need more people to dislike it!
I already “disliked” the mormon video, and “liked” this one. my job is done.
Even though we don’t have the raw numbers of the Mormon Church, I bet we’ve got a higher percentage of computer literate people who think nothing of up-voting something on Youtube.
Further, it looks like the Mormon video isn’t faring very well (sorry, I just couldn’t resist looking at it); it’s got about half the upvotes of Thunderfoot’s video, and nearly ten times the downvotes. I guess that’s what happens when you put something illogical and irrational on the Internet – it dies.
Today is the day the mormons chose to thumb-up the video, so their troops went into high gear. PZ is right to ask us to spread the word. We need help to defeat the Glenn-Beckish blatherings of Jeffrey Holland.
Unfortunately, there’s also a Spanish version of the mormon video, and it’s getting lots of views and lots of thumbs-up votes. I wonder is the Spanish-speaking people in the Morridor know that it was mormon racists who wrote and backed the “show me your papers” anti-immigrant law?
I posted about the campaign on the bulletin board of exmormon.org, so that should help a bit. However, there’s only one thing that might be admirable about the mormons, and that’s their ability to organize a campaign. Of course, part of that “skill” derives from blind obedience, which is damned icky to even contemplate.
I have a theory that only the partially stupid people were taken in by Joe Smith in the first place. After that, they passed on the stupidity/gullibility genes in ratios greater than those in the general population.
Already did. I agree with what the video is saying. Open communication, being able to criticize and question, and being able to fact-check is the bane of religion.
Here’s the link to the Spanish version:
So what do we get if we win?
Well, to be fair the Mormons probably have better things to do than upvote Youtube videos. Why, somewhere in the world someone other than a white male may be being treated like a human being, and if the Mormons don’t put a stop to it, who will?
Uprated and linked on facebook. :)
Aron Ra nailed it in one of his Fundamental Falsehoods of Creationism videos — “Seeing is believing, but believing isn’t knowing.”
I love thunderf00t… Except for his constant internet-dick measuring. I’m tired of every other video including “Hey, did you know I have 10 bajillion subscribers! And the vatican doesn’t! HA!” Somehow, I think this sort of thing will encourage him.
Anyway, I agree with the sentiment, so why not? It’s still choosing between letting a video testament to vacuous dogma and a video testament to telling it like it is.
I am conflicted!
AAAAAH!!
Do you have to be signed into youtube for the like to register?
I would feel slightly better about viewing the mormon video if they would allow negative comments. They don’t even allow polite questions. What they really believe in is censorship.
I guess we could give their censor(s) a bad day by submitting a flood of tell-it-like-it-is comments. I’m wondering if I could construct a sarcastic testiphony that would fool their censors.
#10 a.debaser
Agreed, AronRa is definitely my favorite skeptic on YouTube. If anyone is unfamiliar with him (HA HA HA unlikely) then fix that.
I think it’s a fairly obvious point that indoctrination of the young is crucial for the religious. But I think it’s much more interesting to think of religious practice as a kind of emotional neoteny. This podcast has an interesting discussion along those lines, if any of you are interested: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/4033
** Sorry – “religious belief as a kind of emotional neoteny” would be more accurate
And then start watching his “Why Do People Laugh At Creationists” series. It’s worth your time. And then go watch AronRa’s “Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism” series, which is also very much worth your time.
I think they should show THIS video to more people:
I love it. It makes me want to become a Moron.
Heh.
As of 1500 today I discovered:
11294 folks liked Thunderf00t’s video,
6104 folks liked the Mor(m)on video.
-> KOPD @ 17
I have both series. They are fantastic.
Something I’d like to do, is hack into the satellite uplink to the jeezoid stations and insert these videos into their programme schedule.
The shi’ite would definitely hit the fan.
Done! And happily so :D I will not be watching the other video, as I believe that I do understand the argument and think it simply illustrates Thunderf00t’s point.
Done like dinner!
I also could do without ruining my lunch, so I won’t bother that Mor(m)on head assplody shite.
aw, and I was hoping for Pale Blue Dot.
Thread won.
Well, it is funny, and it does drive the point home that even the biggest religious organization in the world has a smaller following on teh intarwebz than a single meatspace-unknown skeptic.
You left out “(self identified) straight” and “not-poor”.
Mission accepted and accomplished (my part anyway). Nothing’s going to self destruct right? I’ve got enough projects already.
BTW, Lets have some stink about the BP spill eh?
If corporations have pseudo-personhood status, and are entitled to a disproportionate amount of free speech, they should also be subject to appropriate punishment for misdeeds and negligence. I could go on and on as it is one of my hot buttons.
I’ve seen the mormon page already abuse youtube.
What they’re doing is this:
-Opening the vid in multiple tabs
-Liking the vid in each one
-Getting more likes for the video
I would reckon some of the likes are from this strategy.
On the exmormon.org bulletin board an ex-mo noted that as soon as the topic was posted there, the thumbs-up votes for the mormon video accelerated — not, of course, because ex-mos were up-voting the video, but because TBMs (True Believing Mormons) monitor exmormon.org and send out their internet missionaries to do battle against the apostates.
Done! And good choice. BTW, if you haven’t seen “Jesus Camp”, it is a documentary where they got that clip of the overbearing woman pressuring the kids in the church to “get serious” with God. Very scary. The suffering of those children really tugged at my heart. The clip in the thunderfoot vid was from a relatively mild part of the Jesus Camp documentary–a lot was much, much worse, explicitly demonstrating the abusive nature of childhood religious indoctrination.
The Mormon video has been voted down and the Thunderf00t video has been voted up. Bless you, PZ, for letting me do your bidding -grovelgrovel-
*ahem* lack of dignity aside
It will be interesting to watch the mormon tactic fail so miserably. EVEN if they were to use smarmy, youtube-abusing tactics, the amount of ‘dislikes’ their video has almost rivals the ‘likes’…A problem that thunderf00ts video does not have.
Heh, I hope they keep on doing that – unless they’re also creating a new account and using a different IP address every time they vote it up, Youtube is probably ignoring them after a certain point.
They’ve got a great big inscrutable and unknowable entity taking their input and maybe ignoring it or not, they really have no way of knowing. I guess they won’t care too much, that’s basically their SOP.
Why don’t they just prey to their god to increase the numbers for them? It seems to me that it should at least be able to do that being an omnipotent entity… Right??? Seems kinda silly to be part of a private club and not to use the facilities.
Why don’t they just prey to their god to increase the numbers for them?
I don’t know if that is a typo or not :-D
Done uprating it and done commenting! Woohoo!! I feel good, nananananana! *makes a little dance*
Oh, and if anyone is interested, Thunderf00t uploaded a new video today. “Death threats” were made against him regarding his South Park VS Islam video and this (see link below)is his video response to that. I’m just doing my part to make it viral here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcJwRCv9g88
Also in related news, Viacom tried to pull South Park VS Islam video off Youtube and here is his video response. Looking forward to an update. He’s handled himself brilliantly in similar situations before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWaZVMBw1E
Thunderf00t FTW!!!
tacroy @ # 3: … when you put something illogical and irrational on the Internet – it dies.
Oh yeah?
Done and done. Awaiting further orders, enlightened ententacled overmind you.
Seems like the Mormon plan is moving towards what we wee gamers refer to as… epic fail. Or maybe pwnage, can’t decide.
This is the link to the Facebook page on which the mormons are touting the video and inviting everyone to the “Event” — best bet is to go there and fill in the “not attending” box if you have a Facebook account.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=108682145836290
Several people have tried to leave comments on the Facebook Event page, but, of course, they do not allow negative comments. No real information or knowledge is allowed past the barrier of mormon censors.
It seems Thunderf00t got a YouTube death threat, too. Lucky!
I’m hoping we get some Mor(m)on trolls out of this, but so far no luck.
Always delighted to uprate Thunderfoot. IMHO, he’s the King of the Atheist Videos.
I actually watched the video. The theme is that religions die on the internet. But I have found that not always to be the case, in tracking a demonstrated false prophet who tripled the size of his church using Google Ads even though his prophecies have consistently failed.
His followers are widely scattered, with many listening to streaming audio feeds over the Internet on a weekly basis and only occasionally get to assemble when their false prophet travels to their area, “area” being several states in size.
In this case, a religion went to the Internet to grow.
And after you vote on Thunderfoot’s video; check out Mr Deity’s video about how he left the Mormon church (a clip was included in TF’s video): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSgKVotOPo
40 Mike(DDTFA) An interesting case study of an online church is the case of VenomFangX. He is a Canadian university student who tried to create an online ministry based on Kent Hovind’s “theology”. He would read Hovind tracts and repeat his creationist arguments on YouTube. It was a brilliant concept, preaching to the youth market that YouTube caters to – but also very creepy to see him use the same mannerisms and intonations as Hovind. He got yanked earlier this year for filing false DMCA claims against Thunderfoot (twice!).
In some videos VFX expressed frustration that people were critiquing his videos. He seem to think his “godly” message should have shielded him from criticism.
If a minister builds a brick & mortar church and attracts followers, any disenchanted members will simply leave and not come back. They don’t stay to dispute his claims.
On YouTube, any video is open to be critiqued. Religions may not die on the internet, but they are no longer shielded from the bright light of reason.
I think that the point Thunderfoot’s making is, religions generally don’t stand up to critical thinking, and it is impossible to turn off critique on the internet. Oh sure, you can shut off criticism on your own site, and you can shut off comments on youtube. but you can’t shut down other sites and other commentators. AiG has at least a dozen counter-sites.
In the example I refer to, this false prophet has a number of websites critical of him, of which I run one. The false prophet issued a death curse against me and his other critics over a year ago for a speedy death. Also, according to him Jesus Christ will return May of 2012, but he’s already on his second timeline and has made adjustments to it.
It’s amazing to read the comments of a few of his followers who come to my blog and rationalize away all of his failures including my continuing to breathe air in and out of my lungs. This false prophet shares something with Ken Hovind as well: he has an active criminal investigation by the IRS on top of which he has talked publicly about his Swiss bank account. More fun than a barrel of monkeys.
While the Internet is a two-edged sword in his case, for his followers it makes no difference. They’ve decided to believe whatever he says even if it makes no sense.
A couple of typical comments from the mormon Facebook page:
They rocked, but not as hard as Thunderf00t, poor dears. And they don’t know the difference between “then” and “than.”
The mormon video, “Testimony of the Book of Mormon,” currently has 8723 thumbs-up votes, and 4679 thumbs-down votes. The total views are about 232,000.
The Thunderf00t video has 195,879 views, with 14,387 thumbs-up votes, and 572 thumbs-down votes.
My mission. It is fulfilled!
Sadly, we cannot actually win this one, as far as the Mormons are concerned. They’ve set the bar for success very low by using meaningless platitudes about spirit and what not. They said up front that they would have succeeded even if the video doesn’t make youtube’s front page, or even get a very high ranking. Typical. Don’t ever set a goal that you might not reach, that way you can’t fail.
Gus Snarp @48: Too true about the mormons setting themselves a low bar, and such a nebulous goal, that they could claim victory. But, no one but True Believers will buy their claimed Win.
They lost before they began. The video is a prop-up-the-spirit gig aimed at believers … and believers ate it up. However, everyone from Pharyngula who managed to watch it came away even more convinced of the mind-boggling fraud being perpetrated by the mormons. In fact, I’d be willing to bet that most non-mormons watching that video got a big dose of WTF, and walked away shaking their heads.
The mormons didn’t win any respect by censoring comments.
Wanted to make a comment about this post, but then decided it was a waste of thought and time.
The original Mormon video has continued to get upvotes. Not sending traffic is not going to help. Please go and downvote the sucker :)
I am kind of amused that even though the Mormons’ original “goal” was nebulous and not really any sort of aggressive “contest” (as mentioned in comment #48), PZ’s disciples here have made it into a contest anyway.
It is kind of like a bunch of kids got together and started a game, explicitly stating that everyone would be winners. Then, kids from the neighboring block joined in and started trying to “win” the game.