Somewhere in the wilds of the web, I’ve already done a bit on this. Musing, roughly, hey, the standards for sainthood, they seem to have got steadily less demanding, over recent centuries*, especially. No need to drive all the snakes out of Ireland or nothin’ no more… One or two spontaneous remissions of medical conditions already known to do that anyway will have to do, apparently…
So you get to wondering if people might just get a little peeved if they call heaven, and they get one of these more recent saints. Get one of these people whose skill is limited to such ‘miracles’ as these more recent ones, when you’re really in a spot, and you might just want to ask them to hand you back to dispatch, see if there isn’t someone a little more hard-core available…
“Saint who? And you did what to qualify? Erm… No offense, guy, but I’m trapped behind enemy lines, the rest of my unit are all dead, bullets are whizzing overhead and I think I’d just heard someone load a mortar… I was kinda hoping for someone a little more in the old-school fire-from-heaven mold… Do you mind, terribly, passing me on? Thanks awfully…”
(*/Oddly, in this era of ubiquitous video and photography, we’re not getting a lot of walking on water… Go fig.)
Well, if he didn’t callously ignore them, he’s better than god. So – saint away!!!
Remember when saints used to do miracles? Not “holy popus! I just bet ‘red’ on this roulette wheel and OMG it came up red!” miracles – I’m talking miracles like flying around and predicting the future and living on the eucharist alone for 13 years without so much as sneaking a twinkie? That kind of miracle. Today’s miracles are thin stuff; even jesus has to struggle to appear in the hair of a dog’s butt or on a piece of toast. I’m just not impressed.
St. Nectaire – that’s the one. St. Whozits?? Yeah, there are all sorts of local saints no one else has ever heard of, typically pre-Christian figures that the Church had to adopt to convince the locals to assimilate.
John 14:10-14 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
How’s THAT ^ for a bunch of hooey?? At least the Church used to pay lip service to such nonsense – now? All we get are “Well, he made a really delicious grilled cheese sandwich” or “Once he handed a hanky to a child with a runny nose.” Blah. Such trivial saints. Where’s the spectacle any more??
lpetrichsays
Yes, David Hume noticed the shyness effect of miracles about 250 years ago in his Essay on Miracles. It’s even more true today. Back in the Middle Ages, saints could allegedly do lots of miracles. Check out St. Genevieve and St. Francis Xavier, for instance. But compared to the miracles attributed to them, present-day saint miracles are almost absurdly paltry.
I think that some people kinda wanted JPII to be a saint really badly for image issues, that’s what I think. He seems to have been fast-tracked.
Do they still hire devil’s advocates to point out the reasons that someone shouldn’t be a saint, or did Hitchens embarrass them over Teresa too badly that they will never try that again?
Deckersays
I think JPII has always enjoyed a positive public image. I can’t forget the incident back in ’92 when Sinead O’Connor was booed off the stage by thousands at a U2 concert after having ripped up JPII’s photo on stage
I sort of don’t care who The Vatican canonizes
Your Name's not Bruce?says
@ #5 Stewart
Re; “Christ’s wounds a sign of God’s love.”
So Jesus took a bullet for us. And who fired the gun? GOD!
Check out St. Genevieve and St. Francis Xavier, for instance.
Dude, St. Xavier was really awesome in that movie with the mutants and shit. That’s some prime miracle-ing.
stewartsays
@ #8 Your Name’s Not Bruce?
There’s no reasonable context in which any of it even makes sense, let alone being possibly true. Why would a god who created us to be exactly as we are decide that we bear any responsibility? There’s nothing sophisticated about it in any sense, theological or otherwise. Utter nonsense from start to finish.
Heh.
Somewhere in the wilds of the web, I’ve already done a bit on this. Musing, roughly, hey, the standards for sainthood, they seem to have got steadily less demanding, over recent centuries*, especially. No need to drive all the snakes out of Ireland or nothin’ no more… One or two spontaneous remissions of medical conditions already known to do that anyway will have to do, apparently…
So you get to wondering if people might just get a little peeved if they call heaven, and they get one of these more recent saints. Get one of these people whose skill is limited to such ‘miracles’ as these more recent ones, when you’re really in a spot, and you might just want to ask them to hand you back to dispatch, see if there isn’t someone a little more hard-core available…
“Saint who? And you did what to qualify? Erm… No offense, guy, but I’m trapped behind enemy lines, the rest of my unit are all dead, bullets are whizzing overhead and I think I’d just heard someone load a mortar… I was kinda hoping for someone a little more in the old-school fire-from-heaven mold… Do you mind, terribly, passing me on? Thanks awfully…”
(*/Oddly, in this era of ubiquitous video and photography, we’re not getting a lot of walking on water… Go fig.)
Well, if he didn’t callously ignore them, he’s better than god. So – saint away!!!
Remember when saints used to do miracles? Not “holy popus! I just bet ‘red’ on this roulette wheel and OMG it came up red!” miracles – I’m talking miracles like flying around and predicting the future and living on the eucharist alone for 13 years without so much as sneaking a twinkie? That kind of miracle. Today’s miracles are thin stuff; even jesus has to struggle to appear in the hair of a dog’s butt or on a piece of toast. I’m just not impressed.
Back in the day, it was no great shakes for a saint to have actually raised someone from the dead! Here is an image of the dead Bradalus being raised by some saint or other: http://images-00.delcampe-static.net/img_large/auction/000/165/899/306_001.jpg
St. Nectaire – that’s the one. St. Whozits?? Yeah, there are all sorts of local saints no one else has ever heard of, typically pre-Christian figures that the Church had to adopt to convince the locals to assimilate.
John 14:10-14 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
How’s THAT ^ for a bunch of hooey?? At least the Church used to pay lip service to such nonsense – now? All we get are “Well, he made a really delicious grilled cheese sandwich” or “Once he handed a hanky to a child with a runny nose.” Blah. Such trivial saints. Where’s the spectacle any more??
Yes, David Hume noticed the shyness effect of miracles about 250 years ago in his Essay on Miracles. It’s even more true today. Back in the Middle Ages, saints could allegedly do lots of miracles. Check out St. Genevieve and St. Francis Xavier, for instance. But compared to the miracles attributed to them, present-day saint miracles are almost absurdly paltry.
What he really did say is just as bad:
https://www.facebook.com/144310995587370/photos/a.271728576178944.71555.144310995587370/776267785725018/?l=d37529d7a0
I think that some people kinda wanted JPII to be a saint really badly for image issues, that’s what I think. He seems to have been fast-tracked.
Do they still hire devil’s advocates to point out the reasons that someone shouldn’t be a saint, or did Hitchens embarrass them over Teresa too badly that they will never try that again?
I think JPII has always enjoyed a positive public image. I can’t forget the incident back in ’92 when Sinead O’Connor was booed off the stage by thousands at a U2 concert after having ripped up JPII’s photo on stage
I sort of don’t care who The Vatican canonizes
@ #5 Stewart
Re; “Christ’s wounds a sign of God’s love.”
So Jesus took a bullet for us. And who fired the gun? GOD!
Check out St. Genevieve and St. Francis Xavier, for instance.
Dude, St. Xavier was really awesome in that movie with the mutants and shit. That’s some prime miracle-ing.
@ #8 Your Name’s Not Bruce?
There’s no reasonable context in which any of it even makes sense, let alone being possibly true. Why would a god who created us to be exactly as we are decide that we bear any responsibility? There’s nothing sophisticated about it in any sense, theological or otherwise. Utter nonsense from start to finish.