Sorry if this is obnoxious, but I have some rich people thoughts. I think a lot about retiring early. I figure it’s a ways off, but it seems eventually correct. I’m a tech worker, married to a tech worker, no kids, with fairly frugal interests and habits. I live a very savings-positive lifestyle.
On the internet, this often goes under the heading FIRE (Financial Independence / Retire Early). I’ve read a bit about it, although a lot of it is financial advice, which I haven’t found too helpful. My biggest concerns are not financial.
My husband doesn’t really like the idea, because he’s risk averse. He keeps asking, what happens when the US collapses? What if we need to move to another country? Even in a more optimistic scenario, what if, for instance, Obamacare gets killed, how will early retirees get health insurance? And you know, fair enough.
I think about whether it’s selfish. It’s definitely not the most selfish thing you could do. You could just accumulate wealth, sitting on it like a dragon, letting a few coins loose only to buy a fleet of yachts. But there are also less selfish things you could do.
I have two little voices in my head. One is the EA voice, which says the best thing you can do is earn a shit ton of money and give it all away. The other is the radical leftist voice, saying, that money was made through exploitation, and it would have been better not to make the money in the first place. So if I retire early, that’s a lot of money that I’m not making in the first place, does that work for you, oh voice of radical leftism? “No, not like that,” says the voice.
Ultimately, retiring early isn’t intended as an altruistic move. It’s basically a large expenditure on myself, likely the largest expenditure I would ever make. Some people, with their disposable income they go traveling, or buy luxury goods, or engage in conspicuous consumption of some sort. I don’t like those things, thus the frugal lifestyle. But there is one thing that I value that money can buy: time.
I might as well list a couple other minor concerns. What if having that much free time turns out to be too much? And what would by family think? But I guess none of that would stop me.
What do you think? If, say, you won the lottery, would you retire?
I’m already retired. Nor do I have enough money to last beyond perhaps a decade, still well below my projected, actuarial lifespan. But having watched the physical hell my elder ancestors suffered in their end-days despite great health care, accruing wealth in the hopes of “enjoying” some imagined, retirement paradise, I’ve decided today is as good as it gets especially as old-age issues begin creeping in (and the world begins to burn). No offspring, cheap hobbies, and I don’t enjoy travel. Nor am I the type to just hope I don’t end up in a nursing home — the ticket is mine to punch. Winning the lottery would change nothing except for having to decide which charities get it (although I do I need a new computer monitor first).
instantly, no hesitation. i’d focus on writing and art, and never be bored.
Spend at least some of your extra free time doing good for others (in a non-monetary manner)? My plans for retirement (whenever that ends up being, but definitely not early)are to volunteer at local schools, preferably the more diverse ones – elementary schools always need someone to help kids individually with reading or math, or help supervise hands-on science classes – and to take classes at the local community college.
Or, you know, if you decide there is still too much time you can work part-time. (And if Obamacare gets killed at least one of you will have to go back to work full time. If AI keeps growing exponentially you won’t even be disadvantaged professionally compared to your continuously working peers because most of the innovation will always be something both you and them haven’t learned yet.)
Alternatively, there are countries that have retiree visas, and some of them are both LGBTQ friendly and are very affordable – some examples are Costa Rica and Portugal. Spain also has such a plan, but is a bit more expensive. So if you have ideas how to spend your time in a non-English-speaking country that could be an option to consider.
I don’t think I’d retire. I’ve spent so much time of my life trying to find a job I like, and am good at, and just over 12 years of total post-secondary education pursuing various options, and now I have finally succeeded. Plus, my career (as a medical radiation technologist) is starting to take off, and I’ve only been working in this field for about 18 months. I’m so close to a stable, full-time job with benefits that I can practically taste it. If I won the lottery, I’d probably scale the work back a bit, maybe 2 or 3 shifts a week. But I’d still do the job, because I freakin’ love my job. I’d also travel and possibly volunteer doing x-rays in some countries in the global South.
@VolcanoMan,
Yeah, a lot of people in my family are like that, they like to keep busy. It’s an understandable preference, though I don’t think about work that way. Based on my experience in scientific research, I feel like doing a job that I’m passionate about is a good way to lose that passion.
Been there, done that. Income decreased but quality of life increased.
Don’t worry about running out of things to do. There are hobbies and voluntary work. With your background you could do research without external funding (“gentleman scientist”). Or take a part time job, when you feel like it. If you don’t need the salary you can always donate it to a good purpose.
Now that you mention it, I *haven’t* seen any “radical leftist” takes that say “the morally correct thing to do is to retire early so you’re not participating in capitalism.” Actually, I don’t really ever see “radical leftist” financial advice for what an individual should do, it’s always about how the system should change so that rich people pay more taxes. Which is true, but I still live my life as an individual person so maybe I would find it useful to talk about that.
Or, when someone does post financial advice, like a few years ago when McDonald’s posted a sample budget for its employees, people on twitter were all mad because it came across like “it’s totally doable to live your life on a minimum wage job at McDonald’s, stop complaining, it’s your fault you’re poor.” So it’s kind of this weird situation where we feel like we shouldn’t talk about how to manage one’s money, because that’s offensive to people who have low incomes (or maybe I just used to spend too much time on twitter)- but then the only people who are aware of the common helpful financial advice are people who are privileged enough to naturally be around people talking about that anyway.
Anyway my answer to the “retiring early” question is that I like to have a job because it gives my life a structure. I also constantly wish I had more spare time, but I don’t think it would be good for me if my entire life was spare time and also chasing my kids around.
@Perfect Number,
Yeah, I’ve never seen people talk about how to approach personal finance when you’re anti-capitalist. Makes anti-capitalism feel like it doesn’t have anything to say.
I for one think it would be great if the world’s most grossly wealthy people just retired.
My mother retired at 53. She decided her long commute just wasn’t worth it. She still had one kid at home at the time, but beyond that, she developed a bunch of hobbies, eventually staying with doing stained glass art and making mosaics. Her problem was her blood pressure problems (which started when she was pregnant with my youngest brother) became worse, leading to her first stroke at 59. Several more followed over the years, eventually causing enough damage that she was visibly mentally declining in her mod 70s, officially a dementia patient at 77, and who knows how long she would have lived through late dementia (and what the toll on my dad would have been) had she not died of COVID at 79. So retiring early allowed her to enjoy some 20+ years doing things she enjoyed with a less stressful life. My dad also retired a bit before expected, at 58. Once both my parents were retired they spent more time traveling while they still could (about 15 years) and spending more time with grandchildren. When they were not traveling, my mom was doing her art and my dad was gardening.
You never know when your health might take a turn to the worse. If you can afford to, including affording health insurance, do it. Do make a plan ahead of time for how to spend your time, think of what you value so you can emphasize that in your plans, and have some kind of back-burner plan in case you are forced to re-enter the work force.
This is an interest of mine too.
To answer that radical leftist voice, I’d say this: If you’re dependent on a paycheck, then you have to do the bidding of whoever’s paying you. If you’re financially independent – which I take to mean you have enough money invested to support yourself at, at least, a minimal level, so you can choose to work or not as you see fit – then you have more freedom to live by your values.
You can choose to take only jobs that make the world a little better, rather than jobs that make it worse. You can spend time volunteering in your community, or helping worthwhile causes that can’t pay a living wage.
If you run a business, you can treat your employees better because you’re not under pressure to squeeze every last penny out of them. If you’re a doctor or a lawyer or a therapist, you can help people with less concern for their ability to pay.
Obviously, it’s not a perfect solution. If you’re living off investment income, some of that is bound to come from companies that exploit and mistreat people. You’re still participating in an unethical system.
On the other hand, as long as we live in a capitalist society, there’s no real way of opting out. The most you can do is try to make choices that minimize harm.
@Adam Lee,
Although I do volunteer my time–for example, as an ace activist–I can’t convince myself that this is a good ethical justification for early retirement. Realistically, I still wouldn’t dedicate my life to that, and I’d probably spend more time on, e.g. art.
The way I think about it is, what amount of selfishness are we warranted? If a person chooses *not* to spend their weekend volunteering at the homeless shelter, that is a measure of selfishness that we need not mention. We need not justify it by claiming that they spent their weekend doing other things to help their community. Is it warranted selfishness when someone works for an industry that is exploitative? Is it warranted selfishness if they retire?