Pamela Gay has posted the text of her instantly-famous TAM talk – and oh man is it a stemwinder.
She starts with the bullied school bus monitor, and the people who changed her life in response. She moves on to the 5th grader forbidden to give his winning speech on same-sex marriage, and the internet outcry that made the principal feel compelled to let the student give his speech after all.
She moves on to people getting together to do good things, like “the Virtual Star Parties that my dear friend Fraser Cain hosts and that I and many others participate in.” She talks about hope and despair, dreamers and trolls.
Doing what he does isn’t easy. It’s a lot easier to do nothing… easier to lose hope that anything can even be done. And there are people out there who would encourage despair.
If, like me, you’re a child of the 80s, you may remember a movie called “Neverending Story”. It came out when I was a dorky little kid. This movie contained a certain giant wolf who totally understands trolls and their effect of creating their own great nothing in the world. (link) When asked why he is helping the great nothing destroy their world, this wolf responds, “It’s like a despair, destroying this world. … people who have no hopes are easy to control.”
Looking around the internets, I see a lot of people sitting around trolling, and a lot people experiencing despair. There are YouTube videos of people complaining, and blog posts of people expressing their hurt, and in many cases there are legitimate reasons for people to be upset. There are people dying because we’ve lost herd immunity (link). There are lesbian teens in texas being killed for falling in love (link). There are so many cases of abuse that it hurts to read the news. There are lots of real reasons to be frustrated about the world we live in and it is easy to complain… and it is easy to lose hope.
It is dreaming that is hard.
That makes me choke up rather.
She urges us to change the world, and gives moving examples of people doing that. (They remind me of one she didn’t mention: Wangari Mathai, one of my great heroes.)
She urges us to do amateur astronomy if we want to, and offers helpful tools, such as her own CosmoQuest.
Then she talks about trolls who try to mess all this kind of thing up.
She talks about Anita Sarkeesian. She quotes from that New Statesman piece by Helen Lewis that I quoted from the other day.
And then she gets to the part where she needed real courage to say it.
This talk is one I struggled to write. To finish this talk I have to step out of my comfort zone and give an honest acknowledgement that trolling isn’t something that just happens in nebulous random places on the internet and it isn’t just people being verbal in their close-mindedness. Sometimes things are more physical and more scary. As an astronomer, at professional conferences, I’ve randomly had my tits and ass grabbed and slapped by men in positions of power and by creeps who drank too much. This is part of what it means to be a woman in science. With the creeps I generally hold my own and get them to back off like I would with any asshole in a bar. With the people in power… I commiserate with the other women as we share stories of what has been grabbed by whom. I know as I say this that it sounds unbelievable – and how can we report the unbelievable and expect to be believed?
This isn’t to say women shouldn’t go into astronomy. It is just to say that in the after hours events, you sometimes need to keep your butt to the wall and your arms crossed over your chest.
Some of you have to have power to stop discrimination and harassment. It pisses me off to know that as strong as I am, I know I’m not powerful enough to name names and be confident that I’ll still have a career.
Which is exactly what Jen said – before the mountain of shit hit the fan. Exactly.
It’s often hard for women and minorities to rise to positions of power – to break through that glass ceiling. This is in someways a self-efficacy issue, where the constant down pouring of belittling comments and jokes plays a destructive role in self confidence. At my university, I’ve heard tenured faculty laugh that there is a policy not to hire women into tenure track physics positions. They do this in front of the junior faculty. I’ve heard people joke that the reason I’m in a research center rather than in Physics is because I have boobs. It’s all said with a laugh. So far, its been nothing actionable or against the law. But it hurts, because I know the women who work for me, strong awesome powerful women like the Noisy Astronomer Nicole Gugiliucci and like Georgia Bracey are going to be hearing this, and it is going to effect their self esteem as they look to build their own carreers. I know it hurts my self esteem. And I know there is nothing I can do to change the reality I am in. I could move to another university – I could change which reality I’m in – but that would leave behind a university devoid of women role models who are capable in physics and computer science, the two fields that my students come from. I stay, and I try to be the example of a woman doing things that matter. I try to say Brains, Body, Both – it is possible even in computational astrophysics.
Thank you.
Here in the skeptics community, we, like every other segment of society, have our share of individuals who, given the right combination of alcohol and proximity will grab tits and ass. I’ve had both body parts randomly and unexpectedly grabbed at in public places by people who attend this conference – not at this conference, but by people at this conference. Just like in astronomy, it’s a combination of the inebriated guys going too far – guys I can handle – and of men in power being asses.
I know that there has been a lot of internet buzz over the last two years about these issues. This community is filled with strong women. A Kovacs and MsInformation are two ballsy women I draw inspiration from. These are just two of the many SkepChicks, and many of the Skeptical and scientific podcasts have female hosts. When they see something wrong, they ask for ways to protect people from being hurt. And they do like Surly Amy did and raise money to get women here – women who together can support one another so that when we go home we have a network of women to turn to to support us even at a distance. These are women who react to problems with a sharp word and a needed call to action that is designed to fix the problems
I know this is an uncomfortable topic. An I know that my talk is going to provoke some of you who don’t think I should air dirty laundry. But I see a problem and I can’t change it alone.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Changing our society takes all of us. Doing something is being that guy, and I’ve had two different guys be that guy for me, who jumps between the girl and the boob grabber and intervenes. Doing something is donating to get more women here, and to get more minorities here, and making a point to admit, we’ve got problems – we’re humans – and saying Stopping Harressment Starts with me. (see endnote 2, below)
We can make TAM a place that is focused on inspiring skeptical and scientific activism – that is focused on how each of us can in our own way make the world better. We can put this bullshit behind us, and we can try to rise above the problems that plague so many conferences in every field. We can be the better example.
We can make TAM a place that is focused on inspiring skeptical and scientific activism – that is focused on how each of us can in our own way make the world better. We can put this bullshit behind us, and we can try to rise above the problems that plague so many conferences in every field. We can be the better example.
Read the whole thing – I know you will, because you can see from this how good it is, and you know there are more videos and graphics.
I feel a whole lot less isolated now. Pamela rocks.
I hope her speech was well received at TAM because she was saying things that DJ Grothe apparently didn’t want to hear from us.
It doesn’t even need to be because. It was very well received, and it said a lot of things that DJ didn’t want to hear from us. That’s all that’s needed really.
I thought it was really excellent! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I’m glad this was well received but it’s only reinforced my disdain for the anti-FtB crowd. This had nothing to do with the issues, as I had convinced myself. They’re genuinely just spiteful and vindictive people looking to tear down the “wrong” type of skeptic.
Anyway,
great read and speech.
A lot of them are, yes. Probably not all.
As many in the atheist community have noted, it’s hard to argue people out of irrational beliefs about themselves and the way the universe works. If the world is working for you, it can be awfully hard to see that the Just World Fallacy is just that– a fallacy. So it’s natural that there’s defensiveness when that assumption is questioned. Especially in a community, like skeptics or scientists, in which members pride themselves on their rationality. So a fraction of the community will behave like horse’s asses. And they won’t like being called on it, especially after they realize they’re wrong.
If people who have dismissed Ophelia, Stephanie, Greta, Rebecca, Jen and their “approved male chorus” [snark] listen to Pamela Gay and are convinced by her words, that’s great. Even if they insist that Rebecca and the FtB feminists somehow made this fight so much worse than it had to be. I’d love for them to be able to look in the mirror and see that their side has been responsible for most of the poor behavior, but wounded egos are not always capable of doing so. I’ll settle for their beginning to pay constructive attention to the issue– or at least shutting up about it.
Those of us who want to support a movement that values respect for women owe everyone I’ve listed in this comment, and more, a debt of gratitude. Every one of them has shown tremendous moral courage worthy of our admiration and respect.
In the parlance of baseball, it doesn’t always matter which pitcher is officially gets the win or the save. The more important stat is the win for the team.
I was at TAM. I was crying during this talk, and I was far from the only one. I went to thank her after the talk and started crying again, and she gave me a big hug. Pamela Gay is my hero.
And for those who were curious about how it was received, she received the loudest and longest standing ovation of any talk I attended. I heard that some people were rolling their eyes, but there were certainly no boos or jeers. Actually, the entire room went dead silent as she started moving the subject of her talk to harassment. Everyone was on the edge of their seat: what was she going to say?
The overall feeling in the crowd was overwhelmingly supportive of her talk, and it definitely reinforced for me that the harassholes really are a small minority on this issue.
I’m also wearing my brand-new “Stopping harassment starts here” shirt today.
Probably not all.
There are a lot of simply clueless people out there, brainy enough but clueless anyway.
That’s a terrific talk. And very gutsy. Maybe it’ll help buy a clue for some of those clueless. Maybe even DJ.
I think some of this cluelessness is an attempt to be popular; it’s willful cluelessness. And I suspect DJ (as an example) fell victim to that. I suspect that because he had gone after at least one harrasser last year, as people reminded him, before claiming recently there hadn’t been any. Obviously last year he felt there was something that needed to be done to be a part of a decent society. But look over there; there’s those cool kids who like to diss and troll feminists amongst others. And so this year he managed to “forget” that there’s a real problem and cosey up to the “popular” crowd. Pamela Gay and the response to her talk points out not just that there’s a real problem, but that responding to it with anti-harrassment action is very popular, albeit not with what seemed like a big cool crowd, a “cool” crowd of jerks.
People shouldn’t need the safe haven of polpularity to do the right thing, but for some it’s necessary, and I hope Gay’s talk and the response points out that it’s there.
Except that they’re still gonna provide cover and support for the type of misogynistic crap Watson is getting so long as it’s Watson getting it. They’re just propping up good and bad woman again so they don’t have to pay any mind when the bad woman is harassed.
She did, after all, start it and deserve it. Besides, didn’t she pose nude once or something?
I haven’t always agreed with Pamela Gay but this is pretty damn impressive. Nice to come back from a mini vacation to something like this. Count me in on the applause.
It isn’t just about popularity. There’s one very key thing she said, which explains a lot. I already knew the fact it represents (and that it explained a lot), but I couldn’t say it (not least because in my case it was hearsay).
It was this:
Here in the skeptics community, we, like every other segment of society, have our share of individuals who, given the right combination of alcohol and proximity will grab tits and ass. I’ve had both body parts randomly and unexpectedly grabbed at in public places by people who attend this conference – not at this conference, but by people at this conference.
@julian #9:
I’m not defending their behavior toward Rebecca and the FtB feminists at all. Their threats, stalking and harassment have been utterly vile and have no place in a civilized society. None at all. The best we can hope for from these creatures is that they will slink back under their rocks.
It’s the apologists, defenders, the minimizers, and what you would call tone trolls who have hopefully heard Pamela Gay. Their behavior may not have been antisocial, but it certainly was hurtful. Maybe now they’ll finally understand why.
Intelligent observers will know that Rebecca and the FtBers pitched 7 dazzling innings while their team failed to score until the 9th. In the end, they don’t get the official credit they’re due, but I suspect they’ll be happy with the win. Goodness knows they deserve to be part of it.
Credit is one thing, and an end to demonization is another. People have been trashing us for weeks; it would be nice if that could stop now, and even – gasp! – get walked back.
I know you’re not excusing the behavior or defending it, Martha. I didn’t mean to imply that.
I completely agree. I think you’ll get stopping– after some last throes of lashing out– but not the walk back. At least not from the Slime Pit and their ilk.
Maybe D.J. Grothe can be the exception to my prediction? And Jeremy Stangroom sure owes you a huge public apology, too.
#15 was @Ophelia #13.
@Julian #14– thanks. I didn’t take your comment that way; I just wanted to be more clear. I don’t at all want to minimize the toll on the people who have been in the trenches of this battle. I’m just saying that if they make ridiculous excuses and say that Pamela was more civil or clear than Rebecca/FtB, they’re doing that for no other reason than their pride. But if they shut up and stop their aggressive behavior, it’s still a victory.
The slimepit has started sliming Pamela Gay.
Aye.
Hopefully it’ll stop.
Do I want to look?
Good god, really? I thought that would be beneath even them.
No of course you don’t want to fucking look. Do you want to swim in acid?
Oh, Jeremy Stangroom is never going to apologize to me. He’s convinced himself that I’m evil incarnate and he’s never going to budge.
@Ophelia
This much time after Elevatorgate, I can only imagine that it’s borne of collective willful delusion. Nothing is beneath you when you think that you need to WIN.
OB:
What the fuck is his problem? His Twitter behavior has moved beyond nasty to just plain weird.
P.S. Were you really once a zookeeper, or is that Wikipedia making things up?
Shes does rock, doesn’t she? Though I would recommend the book ‘The Never-Ending Story’, which is morally subtle, over the film, which removes all the subtlety.
His problem is a very weird idea of what constitutes “bullying,” along with an immovable conviction of his own rightness about everything.
Yes I really was once a zookeeper! Not for long…but blogs hadn’t been invented yet, so I spent a few years messing around with elephants and other critters.
First: Pamela is AWESOME.
Second: no surprise that the Pit has targeted her as well. Clear evidence that pretty much no conversation about sexism, harrassment or assault will be tolerated.
Now, Stangroom back off and apologise? Never going to happen. He’s long had a large, pointy chip regarding Gnu Atheists and their Gnastiness(tm) and has in the past targeted Jerry Coyne, Ophelia Benson and Russell Blackford for their rudeness about faith and its effects. He had the usual indignant hissy when he discovered PZ and predictably scolded him too (and was then told by PZ to “fuck off”, which probably made him drop his hanky!).
Anyway, Stangroom’s Gnu-hatred and PZ-loathing have predictably metastasised into a bandwagon-hopping (and maybe click-generating/relevance-bestowing?) hatred of all things FtB.
Curious thing: Stangroom and Blackford have now both found themselves allied against these ghastly “bullies”, both tweeting some rather intemperate, discourteous things over at the #FTBullies crashtag. Blackford doing it is no surprise, but obviously Stangroom’s insistence on civility and polite discourse has taken a backseat to his need to scold others (and impugn their intelligence, labelling the FtB-positive as “undereducated and overindulged”) and tribe-up with anyone doing the same.
Consistency, Stangers: you’re doing it wrong.
Hmm, I apparently missed a lot of the drama as I didn’t follow anything for a couple of weeks. F.e. I don’t know who or what “the slimepit” is (give a link please) and can just guess that it’s a bunch of trolls. Neither can I understand that people don’t see that harassment is a problem, as it is pretty much universal and that’s why there should concrete steps should be done about it. There are many things that can be instituted.
What I find even more annoying though than that, is instead of the important issues in the world, what happens in the Arab world f.e., I’ve to read garbled blogposts everywhere about which American “sceptic” or internet atheist or whatever said what on which twitter or blogs. It just convinces me again that “atheists” shouldn’t even try to be a community, and we are much better off if we are individually or collaborate in doing philosophy or politics or culture or science in the first place instead of pretending that “not held beliefs” are something that makes us a movement.
@Tim Harris
I loved the NeverEnding story reference but of course the book by Michael Ende (and not just this one, I recommend “Momo”) should be read by young and old alike. Without the film though there would have never been the awesome score by Klaus Doldinger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fmWYL0eH6U
All hail the Ivory Tower!
I see nothing in the Slime Pit denigrating Pamela Gay. You sure you’re looking at the right website?
I’m not looking at it at all, and I don’t really want to get into conversations about it here. I’m happy to be able to ignore it.
Well, someone should look and see that hyperdeath is not being honest, which is leading others to take it as fact without evidence.
smh
Oh for fuck’s sake – not being “honest” about a bunch of lying sexist thugs on a site set up to cyberstalk me and a few other people? Give me a break.
While I hate the truckloads of rank dishonesty levelled at FTB as a whole through this unpleasant business – and I’ve seen more than my fair share of it, having been neck-deep in the Twitter flame war for the last week or so – in a way I (personally) am okay with taking that flack if it means that change actually happens.
If it’s Pamela Gay who’s provided the tipping point, then good on her. Good on all of us who’ve been fighting the good fight.
I hope there is a video posted soon of her talk. I’m sure it’s much better “live”. I don’t know Pamela Gay, so I can’t picture her voice or mannerisms. Overall, I approved of the message.
I’ve actually not seen anything where any of the antis have had a go at her for it; any links to criticisms (other than the slime/slymepit; I’m not giving them any hits) of what she spoke about?
@wowbagger #32 Yes, exactly. Not having received the flack myself, I probably shouldn’t have tried to say that– I was just overcome with delight that change really does seem to be happening.
@ophelia #20 I’m sorry to hear that, and he’s being an idiot. I’m still going to take two of your joint books with me on my vacation next month, hoping that you have removed or at least muted all the idiocy from that endeavor.
Let’s just never mention the s. pit here ever again. It summons them up, like saying Beetlejuice 3 times.
No, I haven’t seen anything, but I’m not expecting to. She’s not all covered with FTB/Skepchick filth, you see.
The first chapter of DGHW is a bit upsetting for a vacation, Martha. Fair warning. :/
‘No, I haven’t seen anything, but I’m not expecting to. She’s not all covered with FTB/Skepchick filth, you see.‘
Gah. I guess for me to say I’m okay with taking the flack is straight-up nonsensical; compared to what you, Rebecca Watson, Stephanie Zvan, PZ and all the other FtBers who’ve weighed in on this have had to tolerate that’s nothing at all.
I’m sorry that the change that (fingers crossed) is now happening had to come at such personal cost for y’all. I hope you get more than a few apologies in the near future – and I wouldn’t blame you in the slightest if you told all of them to take their apologies and place them somewhere uncomfortable.
WowbaggerOM has been awesomeness itself on the Twitter #FTBullies crashtag. Thank you, sir, for all your irresistably re-tweetable tweets! =^_^=
And to those who think that Twitter is somehow divorced from ‘real life’:
Some of the pro-FTBers managed to persuade one of the skeptics (on an obviously made-up-for-the-lulz-account) by the name of ‘Misogynist’, that FTB had a point about anti-harassment policies. The person concerned, at the end of several hours of patient explanation (principally from Horse Pheathers) announced that they were now “75% on FTB’s side (up from 5%)” and deleted the account.
A small victory, to be sure. But nevertheless a sign that many of the people ‘on the other side’ haven’t actually heard FTB’s side; just the strawman version being loudly proclaimed by the tiny minority of actual misogynosts and dishonest privileged asshats and their deluded hangers-on.
I don’t mind taking flak online. I am lucky enough that I don’t get enough in meatspace any more to wear me down and I have much greater and more urgent worries in my life that have nothing whatsoever to do with activism about anything; so tackling the misrepresentations of FTB online is actually a fun distraction for me which takes my mind off more immediately serious (to me) matters.
If those of us with ‘nothing’ to lose keep engaging them, it may embolden those who don’t have ‘much’ to lose; once they enter the fray, it will start to become obvious that our view is actually the majority view. Then, perhaps, it will be the gropers and creeps who start to feel their positions threatened and will reduce their harassment of people who are too vulnerable at the moment to fight back.
It is a longish-term strategy but it started a while back and is making headway. The stalkers are starting to make a noise; that means they are worried that they don’t have the support that they used to assume was universal. They might not be quite on the run yet, but they are on the defensive. There will come a tipping-point, and soon, where the kinds of people who always side with those on top, regardless of ethics, quietly switch sides.
It happened with racism, it’s happening with homophobia† and it’s the turn of misogyny to become a liability in ‘polite society’. We are winning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
† I’m not saying that we’ve eliminated either racism or homophobia by any means; just that the lazy majority, who don’t want to fight but hate to be losers, have drifted over to the ‘good’ side of the battle.
Heh. Rich Sanderson, the brave little soldier who claims to have ‘invented’ the hashtag, is bleating about this post on Twitter; despite not being very smart, he’s at least clever enough to know not to comment here, out of fear of having his ‘arguments’ laughed at.
@39 Tigger:
I think you’re right, even though right now it looks as though the world is rife with idiots and their (often unwitting and tribe-blind) enablers. I also think you’re right about the “lazy majority” drifting our way. In any social movement there will always be a tipping point or critical mass, where it suddenly becomes very, very unpopular to pick on minorities/the disabled/LBGT people. Right now, that point with homophobia, non-religion and women might not seem imminent (it seems entirely dependent on location sometimes) but I do believe it’s edging inexorably closer. This is, I believe, thanks to everyone who participates, whether online or “real life” (I struggle with the separation of the two – isn’t “online” comprised of “real life” people and their “real life” opinions?).
PS You and Wowbagger on twitter have been stellar and the change of mind of Misogynist is good news. Having said that I need a break from the drama and hypocrisy, the disingenuousness, the bad faith arguments, the fucking incessant strawmen and yes, the occasional blatant sexist bastardry. I had one good, intelligent @-swap with that Damion chap, in which we appeared to have a lot of common ground regarding policies and their purpose – then he went right back to the tag and started slinging the same hash (as it were). Kinda depressing.
Also, I’m sick of seeing people defend TF’s douchebaggery and depict his sacking as fucking “oppression of dissent” or whatever other libertarian-when-convenient dog-whistle they’re using today. It wasn’t – it was, as far as I can tell, “getting sacked due to shit-poor writing, obstinate, egomaniacal refusal to engage with arguments as presented and, quite plausibly, intention to troll the entire network from the word “Go””. If generally sucking as a writer and acting like an entitled, petulant, unrepentant flame-baiting narcissist from day one isn’t reason enough to lose your spot from a blog network, I’m stuffed if I know what is. As far as I’m concerned FtB’s only mistake here was that they gave TF a high-five instead of a bloody job interview.
Sorry for the tangent there – twitter doesn’t give me enough room 🙂
Well that’s BULLYING, don’cha know? Freethought means never having to have your arguments challenged, or ridiculed if they’re really bad.
What amazes me is that Maria Maltseva individual, who claims she’s afraid to even say what blog bullied her, for fear of retaliation. But that doesn’t stop her from claiming some really harsh stuff (harsher each time she talks about it, interestingly enough) on the part of these unknown blogs.
It’s going to be interesting to see what the reaction to Pamela’s talk is.
Kels wrote:
Yeah, I suspect there’s a lot more going on with her; consistency is not really her strong point. It gets very strange when you read a bunch of her tweets in the order she wrote them.
—
Deepak Shetty wrote:
Best case scenario, given the irrational hatred for all things FTB/Skepchick, is that the anti-FtBers will grasp this ‘out’ and agree that something needs to be done, at the same time claiming that all they wanted was someone ‘reasonable’ to bring it to their attention – while possibly also claiming that the FTBers never made it clear that’s what they wanted.
Given that they’re already saying things to the extent of ‘where’s your evidence that we disagree with anything Pamela said’, that seems like a reasonable assumption.
The anti-FtBers will claim it as a victory – not realising that in the minds of most of the so-called FTBullies and their defenders, winning means making safe spaces and (hopefully) increasing diversity of audiences.
Personally, I’m happy to let whoever claim pretty much anything if that’s the result. But, like I said, it’s not my name that’s been slurred, so I won’t blame people if they choose to point out the facts of the matter a few more times.
A win’s a win, and if it’s credited to this speech well, it’s a damn good speech.
Amazing, inspiring and encouraging. Thank you, Pamela Gay!
Well, what would a win look like at this point?
It seems like every convention other than TAM either has or is adopting a policy. If it’s just a matter of getting the JREF to wake up and adopt (or re-adopt, or re-announce the policy that apparently went missing from this year’s TAM materials), well, I suspect that will happen somewhat discreetly next spring in preparation for the next TAM.
If it’s getting people to apologize to the Watsons and Bensons and others who have been smeared, then yeah, I suspect that’s hopeless.
Here’s what I think will happen. Not to denigrate Gay’s speech, or her bravery in making it to that (potentially) hostile audience, but it’s not like she said anything that Watson hasn’t said (about sexism in the skeptic community), or that Jennifer Oulette didn’t say in her “is it chilly in here” blog post (about sexism in the scientific community), or that Jen McCreight didn’t say (about sexism among prominent skeptics). And so I fear she’ll get the same treatment.
The predictable suspects will demand that she name names, and claim that if she didn’t “call the cops,” then it must not have been that bad.
The Chill Girls will step forward to insist that THEY’VE never been harassed by anyone in the community, and therefore Gay’s experiences don’t count (or whatever their argument is supposed to be — it’s never been made very clear to me). There will be a silly war of T-shirts, in which people fight over whether Harriet Hall’s shirt sells better than Gay’s. A subset of Chill Girls will say that since they were victims of real sexual assault, all this “harassment” stuff is nothing to complain about.
As for the JREF specifically, Grothe will avoid saying anything if he can, other than to brag about how her speech happened at TAM, and that she specifically said that she had not been harassed at TAM, and to note that there were no reported incidents of harassment (because if anyone actually decided to report one, it’ll have been tossed down the memory hole), and people filling out the evaluation forms said they loved TAM.
screechymonkey wrote:
I’ve heard that over at ERV, Abby’s said pretty much exactly that (abridged):
The most depressing thing about this speech for me is that it still needed to be made. The misogynistic hatred directed towards women who have the temerity to complain about being groped or verbally abused has been truly appalling. Worse though is the hypocrisy with which their complaints have been trivialised and dismissed. I really do wish there was some way in which these low lives could be exposed for what they are without the whistle blowers suffering further victimisation.
The pit people want it on the record that they say the claim in # 17 is false. Let the record so show.
OB:
I’m not sure what this statement means.
If you apply the principle of charity in reverse (i.e. their standard operating procedure), then my statement was false. She hasn’t been maligned to the same extent as you, Watson or Zvan.
However, she has been treated to such comments as:
“What she is doing at a TAM is beyond me, unless as a type sample of how to be anti-skeptical.”
and
“Could it possibly be that shoddy research and sparse publishing are holding back Pamela Gay’s career? Of course not, it must be the patriarchy.” [To be fair, the author of this one later acknowledged that he had found a few more papers by her, but still accused her of having a “victimhood complex”]
And I should also add that there have been some more positive things said, since I posted #17.
Hyperdeath, it mostly means that I want them to fuck off and leave me alone.
When I was working on my degree, I would listen to Astronomy Cast. It got me through the rough spots, because I wanted to do that someday. I was always a little afraid. I have been in a recent funk lately mostly because of the level of vitriol aimed at Rebecca, Stephanie, and Ophelia. There seemed to be a conscious hell-bent effort to disgrace FtB in general and to dehumanize these three specifically. There was a point I was at inaction. I commented a little, but not well, I was so furious.
Until Pamela, again. Her speech has made me realize that inaction is the worst action. I feel better, and I want to help. I don’t really have much in the way to give but moral support. I go to AAPT and I go to AAS and other science conferences. One thing I will start asking about are harassment policies. I plan on speaking out more openly.
I was inspired.
Yes. Get inspired, not discouraged. I get in funks because of the vitriol too; I was in one yesterday; I think all three of us do. (Or all five or six or however many it is.) But then Pamela’s talk yanked me out of the one I was in.
The folks at Skeptical Abyss are just being completely dismissive of what Pamela Gay had to say. I won’t sully this blog with a direct link, but I’ve quoted the dismissiveness over at SFN.
That Skeptical Abyss place is another toilet. It basically exists to trash Rebecca. It was at TAM, too – liveblogging. Blegh.
Skeeve #33 –
I agree that I hope the video is posted soon. However, if you want to see and hear her, you can see many videos in which she talks about astronomy on YouTube universetoday channel.
For instance, here’s a video of her talking about Infinities
@lancefinney Thanks, I’ll bookmark those.
Ophelia @57: Yeah, their liveblog is where I took the quote from. The next day, they had some choice words (“complete bullshit”) for the idea that anyone had been harassed so much at TAM they needed to leave (I quoted that crap in a previous comment on that same thread – warning: Nazi allusion in there).
Thank you for posting this! It really made my day when I read it yesterday.
Re: Quote from Abby in post 48
So because not every single woman experiences harassment…what? It’s not an issue? It shouldn’t be discussed lest the mighty skeptic movement be sullied?
Sigh.