I recently got a ride from a friend in his Tesla and he showed me the many electric features that have replaced formerly mechanical ones, like a button that when touched opens the door, rather than a latch that you pull to release the catch. Many of the familiar knobs and buttons were gone, replaced by a touch screen. My friend showed me how the screen showed the presence of people and trash cans on the sidewalk, which I could also see by looking through the windshield. It seemed like the design emphasis was on looking cool and slick rather than boring old functionality. I am not particularly impressed by tech gimmickry that does not provide substantial benefits in functionality and so was somewhat underwhelmed.
But it appears that there is a serious downside to having everything be electric-powered as a woman found out when she was trapped inside her Tesla when the battery unexpectedly died and she discovered that she could not open the door or windows.
“It was fully charged,” she said. “I unplugged the car, went to get in my car, shut the door, and everything just shut down. I couldn’t open the windows. I couldn’t unlock the doors. I was trapped.”
Diane was stuck inside her car. She wanted to check the owner’s manual to try to figure out what was going on, but that was impossible: the glove box wouldn’t open either.
“I called a friend of mine in the neighborhood and said, you know, can you please come over right away. I’m trapped in the car. He came over he couldn’t figure it out. He says there’s no way to open the car from the outside.”
So how did she get out? It turns out that there is a secret latch that opens the door but it is so secret that many owners do not know it is there.
Diane got on the Tesla app and requested Emergency Roadside Assistance. Eventually they let her know through a text that there’s a secret latch to open the door.
Once she located it, Diane was finally able to get out. “It’s scary,” she said. “It’s very unnerving to say the least.”
Diane’s not alone.
Numerous reports have been made of Tesla drivers being trapped in their cars when the battery dies and all the electronics shut down.
Here’s the problem: like most electric vehicles, Tesla vehicles have a main battery that powers the car and a smaller battery that powers the onboard electronics. That includes the door release and the power windows.
When that battery dies, the doors and windows won’t work.
“There is no warning when it’s low or about to go out,” she said. “So it just shuts down.”
So, where’s that secret latch? You’ll find it on the armrest but on the underside, and it’s completely unmarked.
Diane had no idea it was there. She says she’s talked with several Tesla owners over the past few weeks and they didn’t know about it either.
Luckily she had a mobile phone with her that enabled her to get help. This is not just irritating. Diane lives in Arizona where temperatures in the spring and summer can rise to well over 100F. When you are inside a car with the windows shut, the temperature can rise to values much greater than outside and can become life-threatening in a very short time. You would think that Tesla dealers would make it a point to inform new buyers of the existence of this secret release latch and its importance. In fact, it should not be in a secret location at all but easily visible and labeled in case someone other than the owner happens to get stuck.
But that would not look cool.
Diane had a good suggestion. “But to me, it seems that the default for when you lose power should be windows and doors open. Not lock. It should be the reverse logic. That I don’t understand.”
Ah, but she does not understand because she is not a genius like Elon Musk.
The catch is that for her idea to work, there needs to be yet another battery can serve as a backup that still works to open the windows and doors when the two main batteries shut down.
The real question is why the doors should be opened and shut like this at all. It is not onerous to pull a door latch to open it. Just because something is electrically powered does not make it functionally superior.
The more I hear about the Tesla, the less I like it. It is not unlike how I feel about Musk.
Touch screens and controls everywhere require that you look rather than feel to interact with them. This takes attention off of the entire reason you are in the car: to drive it, and drive it safely. Why this isn’t immediately obvious to everyone is beyond me.
Mitch McConnell’s sister-in-law drowned in her Tesla, but I’m not sure if she could have survived with conventional controls.
Maintenance to keep the 12V lead-acid “starter” battery healthy in an EV is much more important than in an Internal Combustion Engine car. An old, weak or worn out 12V battery can cause a multitude of communication buss and other faults across numerous subsystems, such as the door opener of your example.
Online EV forums are filled with thousands of posts from owners who have experienced the shock of their car becoming a “brick” for no apparent reason, but later found that replacing the old, weak or worn out 12V battery has magically fixed everything.
The EV battery load is much less severe than in an ICE, so the symptoms of a battery getting worn and weak are less obvious up to the point of complete failure. The battery can still function in an EV even down to the point of only 5-10% of capacity remaining, so people tend to forget about it and consider it “maintenance-free”. But that is marketing and not reality. The price of freedom applies to more than just politics.
i tend to agree with you about tech bloat into simple areas and mechanical functions. Elon’s secret hidden door latch is just so clever it puts a big SE grin on his fat face.
One recent model Cadillac (forget which one,) had drivers going through three menu screen levels to open the glove box.
Not at all. For the window at least, a fairly simple solution is to have the motor require a trickle of power to engage with the glass, and for the window to otherwise be unsupported. Loss of power causes the motor to lose contact with the window, and lets gravity drop it.
I’m sure the exact mechanism will require someone with better design chops than me to work out the details, but the concept at least is easy.
@ 4 Holms
Perhaps?
This might result in a window that opens during the first part of a crash. The window would have to be designed to be tough enough that it doesn’t break while falling, and the restraints in the car would have to prevent the occupant of the vehicle from squeezing their skull or arm through a space not quite large enough for it. Any flying debris would get in/out.
Matt @1, I’ve been disgruntled for quite a while now about windows that’ll only open by battery. Even in a conventional car, if you’re in water and the battery shorts, you can’t open a window.
I was wishing that they could put some manual override lever in, so if Tesla did it, I want it as a standard feature.
Agree with Matt G @1. Additionally, the “infotainment” system in so many different automobiles that tries to convince the driver they need to update Facebook instead of, you know, driving a massive vehicle at highway speeds. Or post selfies, such as, “This is me, flying through the windshield because I was too stupid to look at the road.”
So there’s a 12v battery that needs to be charged… and a ginormous battery pack that makes the car move… hmmm… if only there was some way to have the ginormous battery trickle charge the 12v battery when it gets low.
#5 seachange
Or, a latch to disengage the mechanism. Still quite simple.
“It turns out that there is a secret latch that opens the door but it is so secret that many owners do not know it is there.”
Yeah, well. Read the fucking manual!
(Such stupidity!)
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html
KISS
Keep it simple Stupid!
Just about every one of those electric innovations is adding unnecessary (and presumably costly and failure-prone) complications. You need an electric motor to open the glove box? Good lord! You need an electric locking mechanism to open the door?
Remind me to look into those new Chinese EV’s which do not seem to be designed to kill their occupants.
Hey, jrkrideau, here’s a reminder for you to look into those new Chinese EV’s which do not seem to be designed to kill their occupants.
Oh, right.
Which EVs do you reckon seem to be designed to kill their occupants?
—
Also, “Just about every one of those electric innovations” applies to just about every car on the market, not only to EVs. Not only to those that you imagine “seem to be designed to kill their occupants”.
Bah.
John @#10,
I have a ten year old ICE car. But even for that, the manual is a thick book comparable in readability to Moby Dick. These books are not meant to be read preemptively but when needed. Whenever something odd occurs, I get it out of the glove compartment and see what needs to be done.
But in the Tesla, the glove compartment becomes inaccessible at the time when one needs it.
Mmm.
Well, I’m not her, but I assure you that’s one of the things I would ask before actually purchasing the vehicle.
Fine. There it is; I’ve already put a link to it.
“Diane was stuck inside her car. She wanted to check the owner’s manual to try to figure out what was going on, but that was impossible: the glove box wouldn’t open either.
“I called a friend of mine in the neighborhood and said, you know, can you please come over right away. I’m trapped in the car. He came over he couldn’t figure it out. He says there’s no way to open the car from the outside.””
If Diane had a mobile phone with which she could call her friend, she could perforce have looked it up within a few seconds, as I did.
(Her friend could not figure that out, either)
Did #QElon, or anyone else, ever state any good reasons to replace manual door-opening handles with push-button controls? Did someone show a serious safety problem with door-handles that could be mitigated only with push-button controls? Did I doze off and miss the groundswell of car-buyers screaming for push-button door-controls? No? If it wasn’t broke, they shouldn’t have fixed it. It’s really that simple.
And no, “it’s in the owners’ manual” doesn’t excuse such a stupid design choice. Especially when: a) the glove-box where the manual (and maybe some other useful things) is stored also can’t be opened when the battery goes out; and b) the “emergency” door handle is hidden in an unmarked location. (Was there an “emergency” glove-box release too?)
I first wrote about Automotive Emergency Escape tools for Aftermarket Business in the ’80s. https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Tools/b?ie=UTF8&node=15736681
Um, I was born in 1960, and the first thing I thought of was to search.
Took seconds. Found it.
I know, I know… the concept of online manuals is so very futuristic!
(Good to call one’s friend, too bad they never thought to Google it, either)
If I, an old fart who’s never had a car license (bike guy, here) can do that much, surely a car owner can do it too?
(Or what, is her phone voice only?)
[cars = boxes on wheels. Moving obstacles]
[can’t get locked into a bike]
I have one of these things. They’ve obviously tried a lot of new design ideas compared to other cars I’ve owned. Some are adopted by other automakers, others aren’t.
The door design is one of the parts I’m not particularly thrilled with. I also don’t think simplifying the physical controls just to complicate the electronic controls makes any sense. It’s a gimmick, something that’s unfortunately rather common from automobile manufacturers.
I can fill in some details that weren’t provided by the article.
The black strip across the top of the window when they show her vehicle from the side is not part of the door. It’s attached to the rest of the car. The door doesn’t have a frame on the top or back side of the window. I’m not certain what the black strip is supposed to do but I’ve heard if you use the emergency manual door release you can cause a tear to form. I assume that would have unfortunate effects on the noise dampening and weather proofing.
The app is roughly like what they show. My version is slightly different but not in any big way. The manual and video tutorials are available from the app under the “Service” menu option. I’m not so sure that’s intuitive. It wasn’t for me.
It’s likely that most owners will have their phone on them almost every time they use their Tesla. Using the phone app to open the doors also gets the car ready to drive. You also get two key cards that can be used instead but using them feels like it takes an extra step or two before you’re driving down the road.
The criticisms of the touchscreen by other commenters here are quite valid. There are two ways to avoid this. There are physical controls on the steering wheel that let you avoid using the touchscreen for some things. I had similar controls on the steering wheel of my 10 year old Honda CR-Z when I bought my Tesla a couple years ago. But on the Tesla the physical controls were simplified a bit which I don’t think was very well thought out. The second way to avoid the touchscreen is to use voice commands. There’s some guesswork involved and while they give examples they don’t spell out how everything works. They’re mostly trying to guess what I’m going to say and I’m trying to guess what they think I’m going to say.
All in all it feels like a really nice car to drive but sometimes it feels like you’re jumping through hoops to do simple things. Which is about what I think most people would expect if I told them the car is run by computer. I did know about the emergency door release before this article. I also sort of vaguely know about an emergency release for the door covering the charge port but I’d have to hunt around in the trunk a bit to find it.
John Morales:
Good interface design is intuitive to use, meaning that you don’t need to look it up in a manual. You just know how to use it because it is obvious. Open Needless to say, any function with the word “emergency” should be quick an intuitive to use.
It is hard to take you seriously when you are arguing “In the case of emergency, flip through a manual or do some quick Googling.”
Me, I find it hard to take someone seriously who doesn’t know that their car’s door can be manually opened, and to whom it does not occur to look it up when it actually matters.
And yet every appliance and vehicle I’ve ever seen comes with a manual.
And these days (like, the third decade of the twenty-first century) they are generally online.
Lanir at #21 wrote,
If it is like other cars, the window slides into a groove in that black strip to capture it and prevent rattling. While I haven’t driven a Tesla, I expect that when the door switch is activated the window drops a little bit to clear it from the strip. Yes, if the door is forced open without the window dropping it would tear the strip and allow the window to rattle or leak when it is fully up. My 2008 Mustang convertible has the same condition, although some of the reason it’s that way on my car is because it’s a convertible and in order to get a good seal the window has to slide into a slot on the retractable roof. Tesla may have had issues with the window rattling/leaking, so they added some weather-stripping and autodropped the window when opening the car. That seal is a tricky one, and many automakers have had trouble with it.
I’m not a fan of Tesla’s, but I’m also not a hater of them. The electronic window switches are pretty common these days, in fact I think there is only one platform in the USA which still has a crank window, and that’s a Jeep Gladiator. So as far as window controls, you are just going to have to get used to the fact that there the windows can’t be activated when the battery is dead (or the alternator is not running). I suspect that even the Chinese EVs will have electric window controls because they are now cheaper than the old crank types.
Similarly with electronic locks. It’s hard to find a vehicle without them. Every vehicle with a remote entry, keyfob, uses electronic locks, and if the battery is disconnected the lock remains in the same position. There has been discussion about this in the automotive industry. Some people maintain that with loss of battery the locks should release, but other people posit the situation where the driver doesn’t want to locks to release (e.g. during a riot), and so the discussion continues. To the best of my knowledge there is no regulation about how the locks perform during a power loss, but there may be some at some point. This isn’t a problem limited to Tesla’s.
The design which does appear to be unique Tesla’s is that they use an electronic door opening/shutting mechanism for the driver’s door. Motorized door control is not new, it’s been used on minivans for rear hatches and sliding doors for decades. Tesla appears to be the first company to put them on the front doors (although I could be wrong).
Hiding the manual door release is a mistake. I wouldn’t be surprised to see legislation/regulations come out about that sometime soon. The manual internal trunk release mechanism, when it became required, was also required to be able to be seen in the dark (which has led to some interesting material science problems because typical glow-in-the-dark materials do not work if they don’t have a light source to charge them up). Mechanical door latches are cheap and easy to design, and very reliable, which is why electronic latches probably haven’t caught on as much as power windows. Also, they don’t take much effort to activate, much less than crank windows. After the Tesla experience, I expect most OEMs will keep the mechanical door latch.
As far as the discussion about manuals and obviousness of controls…. I don’t think we have enough data to really form a conclusion. In this case, and in a previous case, we are told that the driver couldn’t find the manual door release. But in order to judge how difficult it is to find, we really need to know how many Tesla’s have had power issues where the driver needed to manually open the door. Are we hearing about the exceptions, or is this problem common? The articles do not give us this information. I can postulate, without data, that maybe 3-4 thousand people have been trapped in their Tesla when the automatic door failed to open. A couple hundred may not have easily found the manual release. And a few of those cases were reported in the news. That would suggest that most people can figure it out pretty easily. On the other hand, if 1-2 thousand of those 3-4 thousand people who had a problem couldn’t figure it out, then Tesla needs to have a recall and make a correction. But at this point I don’t think we have enough data to know.
Good controls, proper HMI, should be intuitive or easy to figure out if they are for use in an emergency. People are not thinking clearly when they panic; fear is the mind-killer. So the controls need to be simple. Making the manual door release non-obvious is a mistake on Tesla’s part, regardless of the ease of finding the manual on-line.
I find it kind of amazing how prickly and defensive Morales gets when a decision by his hero #QElon is questioned. Especially since he can’t seem to find any reasons why the decision in question is a good idea in the first place…
Me, I find it hard to take someone seriously who doesn’t know that their car’s door can be manually opened, and to whom it does not occur to look it up when it actually matters.
Um…”when it actually matters” could be when one doesn’t have the time, or the ability, to “look it up.”
If I, an old fart who’s never had a car license (bike guy, here) can do that much…
Yeah, right, the fool who’s never owned a car is telling us car-owners how to handle our cars. What a jucking foke.
We can scream “caveat emptor” and “RTFM” all we want, but none of that changes the fact that, absent a clear and compelling practical reason for it, adding a power-door-opening feature, AND making the manual handle less visible for esthetic purposes, only makes a very simple, well-known and basic function unnecessarily more complex, and unnecessarily more dangerous, than it has to be. This fact alone makes it an objectively bad idea, even if only one of thousands of Tesla buyers is actually impacted by it.
(Also, I’ve never had a battery or electrical system just conk out on me like that in any of the cars I’ve driven — even when my Prius ran out of gas and motor-battery power. WTF else is #QElon screwing up with his boy-genius smug arrogance? A bold new cutting-edge electric vehicle whose electronics are more prone to blackouts than anything I’ve seen before? Who needs this shit, and why is anyone still defending this clown?)
And yes, most cars do have power windows and power door locks, which may also fail if their power goes out. But that, in itself, is neither a reason nor an excuse to make yet another basic function power-dependent. It’s just a childish push for consistency — “let’s make everything the same!”
Sacrificing functionality for style
more like Tesla bashing.
upon coming for a ride in our 2023 Model 3 Tesla, one of the first things we tell you and show you is the location of the emergency unlatch lever; any Tesla owner who does not know about this failed to overview their purchase.
The power unlock buttons lower the windows a small gap to avoid damage opening the doors; Tesla is forward thinking in providing a safety latch.
it is not a “secret latch”; that is a pure misnomer!
Tesla dealers do make it a point to inform new buyers of the existence of this non-secret release latch and its importance. In fact, it is not in a secret location and is easily visible.
in Dianne’s case, it’s obvious that the failed to RTFM and to watch a few “how to” videos online.
Oh looky, another Tesla fan breathlessly bashing Tesla buyers, and covering Tesla dealers’ sixes, and still no reason given for why the power-door-opening feature is a good idea or a significant and helpful improvement over what they had before.
Seriously, why the fuck should anyone have to ‘RTFM and to watch a few “how to” videos online’ just to learn how to do something as basic as opening a fucking car door?
Two more things…
First, car owners’ manuals aren’t exactly small. There’s a lot of stuff about things like tire pressure, what the warning lights mean, how to change tires or work the cruise-control, where the oil and various other fluids go, and other maintenance stuff you might need to do and can do yourself. Adding more stuff explaining how to use previously-simple features that the makers have just made more complicated, only makes said manuals bigger and at least a bit harder to find what you need in them. (And if Tesla salestools have to show their customers videos in addition, that’s kind of an admission that they know the buyers will need more help than just “RTFM.”)
And second, re: the fancy touch-screens and menus, fuck ’em, I’m all for keeping separate and always-visible buttons and other controls for most functions. My 2007 Prius has a small touch-screen, and whenever it’s in the shop they give me a shiny new loaner-car with a bigger touchscreen and fancy menus that don’t impress me at all, and which I can’t use while the car is moving anyway. Spiffiest and shiniest isn’t always best.
cp@1947, not specifically Tesla-bashing, I have many of the same sacrificing-functionality-for-style about every model of car now.
lanir @21, thanks for the info. I’m wondering, though, if you’re in accident, injured or maybe the car’s even on fire (guess that’s not as likely with a Tesla? But, the batteries can catch fire.), would the door design get in the way of someone opening the door and pulling you out to safety?
They won’t know, or be able to get to, the manual release, even if the police show up with the Jaws of Life, could they get in? Just wondering.
I was always told, but this is from years ago, to leave the driver’s door unlocked to help out potential rescuers. Is that possible?
garnetstar: good question. And that brings me to another pet peeve about newer cars: the fact that all the doors seem to automatically lock when I put the car in gear (D or R), and then automatically unlock when I shift back to Park. So, if I crash and don’t shift to Park, what would that mean for rescuers who need to get me out?
Ah, one of those comments about me. Fair enough.
The other yapping puppies aren’t doing it very much at the moment, glad you can take up the slack.
Wow. You really don’t get me, do you?
You totally misapprehend what I think of Elon, but I assure you “hero” is very much not that.
(Where did I bring up Elon, that you fabricated that little fantasy?
Tesla and he are synonymous in your brain, perhaps? Looks like it.
You think he personally decides upon each and every single component in a Tesla car?)
In this case, ”when it actually matters” is when she is calling her friend to come over and see if he can help.
As opposed to, you know, looking at the manual online. No need to open compartments in the car for that.
You are truly a weird ignoramus.
But do go on: try to quote me telling you mob of car-drivers how to handle your rolling boxes.
Go on, I dare you!
(Making up weak shit like that is not the best way to attempt mockery, you know)
Ah, car talk. Blame Elon!
PS “another Tesla fan” — what, did you imagine I am a Tesla fan?
Already told you, Arbee, I’ve never had a car license. I am not a fan of any car at all.
I don’t like cars on the road, even. So, not a Tesla fan, not a Ford fan, etc etc.
Go though all the brands, you’ll find I’m no fan of any of them.
I do think EVs are the way of the future, and I do think Tesla made the first popular EVs.
So what? That’s historical.
Obviously, other manufacturers will catch up and maybe exceed their achievements, but what’s been done has been done.
See, your reflexive Tesla (aka Elon in your metonymy-soaked mind) bashing is often based on spurious grounds (as I and others have noted, those general features are ubiquitous in current car models), and when someone points that out you get all fluffed-up and complain whoever is doing that must be an Elon-worshipping fan.
(It’s not us, it’s you)
Look: you don’t like them because Elon runs the company, fine. Don’t buy them.
Not being trapped in a metal box, it’s not a question we bike-riders need to wonder about.
(Boxes bashing into us, that’s a worry — car drivers, you know!)
@30. Raging Bee, who wrote,
That’s a good question, but the short answer is that whether your doors are locked or not locked probably doesn’t make a difference. In any collision big enough to prevent you from shifting to Park will also be big enough to prevent you from opening your doors whether locked or unlocked.
Part of the purpose of locking doors while driving is to solidify the passenger compartment. To create a box where during a collision the force of the collision is spread around the passengers to avoid them getting injured. Locking the doors helps keep them from moving, popping open during a collision. This is why you can see some serious crashes where people walk away with minor cuts and bruises. This wasn’t possible 50 years ago, but things like collapsing steering columns and, yes, immovable doors, are keeping people safer during accidents. (As a humorous aside, many years ago Mercedes sold a car for a year where the engine was designed to drop to the road during a head-on collision to protect the passengers. Unfortunately they miss-sized their mounting bolts and a number of engines fell out when the vehicle hit a pothole. Oops. It was quickly corrected, but Tesla isn’t the only one who makes mistakes.) We think of things like airbags as safety devices, and they are, but there is a lot more engineering going into keeping the occupants safe than just airbags.
Of course, what happens during a front-end, or a side collision, is that because most of the forces of the collision travel around the passenger compartment, the doors crinkle, bent, and warp, they probably won’t open anyway. That is, locking the doors helps with protecting you, but even if the doors are unlocked they still probably won’t open after a collision. Which is why fire departments have hydraulic tools to split open a car like shelling a nut. Here is a short video explaining the three types of tools (and their power source), which comprise what are known as “the jaws of life”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqLw4N2DPxA
Of course a lot of people don’t like the idea that their car is destroyed to get them out, especially when they are uninjured. It gives them a feeling that the car was cheap. After all, they walked away from the accident, why did their car have to be totaled? That’s a large, unexpected, cost. That the bill for a car is cheaper than a hospital is hard to get people to understand. They don’t get a bill from the hospital, to do get a bill for a replacement car. Yet, if the car wasn’t designed the way it is, sacrificing itself to protect the occupants, the people wouldn’t have walked away.
Raging Bee @#30,
My car (2013 Honda Accord) gives me various options. I can have the doors not lock automatically but require me to press the lock switch or lock automatically when I take it out of Park or lock automatically when the car reaches a speed of about 10 mph.
All doors unlock when I open the drivers’ side door latch. I can also unlock all the doors with a switch. I can also set the doors to unlock automatically when I put it into Park or when the ignition is turned to OFF.
flex @35,
That is very interesting. Thanks!
Look: you don’t like them because Elon runs the company, fine. Don’t buy them.
Look: you can’t address my point about the utility of a power-door-opener, fine. Don’t waste time with silly insults that don’t impress or fool anyone.
Mano @36: Personally I find that kind of a weird set of options to choose from. Why not just one button to lock all the doors when you choose to, and another button to unlock all the doors when you choose to? That’s what my ’07 antique has, and also what my mom’s ’04 antique has. AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY! Did anyone ever say they wanted a more complex set of choices than that? Or did someone at the top just say “Hey, we’ve got these shiny touchscreens and multi-level menu options, so let’s add stuff onto that and give people a shitload of new choices they never said they needed! We’re total visionaries!” ?
I just checked the owners manual to my 2010 Honda Insight. Nowhere does it say how to open the doors. Do you know why? Cause it’s obvious.
John Morales, I don’t believe you’re a Tesla/Musk fan boy or anything, but I am a bit puzzled as to why you seem so committed to this. (perhaps I’m misreading you, but you are coming off as quite committed to this position.) Do you really expect an average person to read through a long manual, and, after X years be able to recall the details of where an emergency latch that you rarely use is located? Fortunately this person was only stuck in the car, but if it were a more dire emergency where they had to get out quickly, would you be saying “Well she should have quickly Googled it!”
And as others have asked: what advantage does this all give. If anything it seems like more of an engineering hassle since they have to create 2 door handles -- regular and emergency. All so that it look mildly “cool”?
RB:
What’s wrong with power-door-openers?
(You do get there’s a fallback if power fails, no?
Then they are merely no better than the old-fashioned doors)
And to what “silly insults” do you intend to refer?
Go on, try to quote me.
—
OverlappingMagisteria:
I dare suggest that if you saw no door handles in your car, your curiosity might be piqued.
Well, I think the person in question is rather stupid, going by their actions.
If someone can’t work out how to search for how to open the door in their own car, or even think of doing it, then I reckon the blame is on them. I mean, I did it in seconds, it’s bloody easy to do.
(People like that are why we have warnings on frozen meals that “food will be very hot after microwaving” and that peanut packets might contain traces of peanuts (I’ve literally seen that one))
What position is that, in your estimation?
I know I tend to come on a bit strong, but still.
Yes. Yes, I do. If they don’t, then they have themselves to blame for misoperation.
More to the point, and *again*, this person could have looked it up instead of panicking and calling for help.
(It’s not the most obscure search query, is it?)
FFS.
Again: I am talking about this very instance, the one featured in the OP.
(Can’t beat incompetence)
Now, were this an actual thing, given Tesla has sold around 1.5 million EVs, then perhaps one would expect there’d be a few more stories about this pesky door thingy where people perished in dire emergencies. Right?
I don’t give a shit. Not a car driver, remember?
As I’ve said: If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Simple as.
I don’t give a shit. Not a car driver, remember?
Yeah, and you had to post THIRTEEN comments on one thread, trashing and blaming Tesla buyers, to make sure we all see you don’t give a shit. Just like I always post multiple insulting comments on threads about piano-tuning and stamp-collecting…’cuz they all have to KNOW I don’t give a shit about either of those things, nosireebob…
Raging Bee, so it is confirmed that you too have succumbed to the lure of making me the topic of your comments. I am rather interesting, no?
Another obsessive counter of posts.
Of course, I didn’t have to, I chose to. Different things.
Wow.
Quote me. Go on!
Every one of those comments was but the setup to the climax, in your estimation, and I ensured that thereby. Such a convoluted bit of rationalisation!
Why you keep bashing this caricature you have created is beyond me; you’d do better to deal with me than with your fabulation. Want me to speculate?
Let’s see. You can’t actually dispute anything I’ve actually written, so all you have is misrepresentation and bluster and indignance. Weak stuff, that is.
Do you really? What a weird thing to do.
—
Care to actually dispute anything I’ve actually written?
Raging Bee @#38,
I admit that I don’t know why they give all those options. Seems like overkill.
It didn’t really matter because the default when I got the car was that there was a button on the driver’s armrest that locked and unlocked the doors and pulling on the latch next to it also unlocked the doors. It was all very intuitive, no manual needed.
I only learned. about all the other options because I accidentally stumbled on to that page in the manual when I was looking for something else. So then I adjusted the setting so that it locks when I take the car out of Park.
I should add that these were not touch-screen operated, just using knobs and buttons. My car is traditional in that way.
Per flex @35, I sort of agree with all door auto-locking when you put the car in gear: once it’s moving, there’s no reason not to lock them, DUH. And it’s a good safety feature to keep a kid, or a drunk or loony adult for that matter, from opening a door when you’re moving. (Does locking the doors make the structure more secure, as opposed to just fully closing them?) The problem is when you put it in Park: should it automatically unlock all the doors, or leave them locked? Neither option is inherently better or safer than the other, and either one can pose a problem. Just because I’ve parked a car, or even turned off the engine, doesn’t mean I want the doors to be unlocked right away. OTOH, if I do want to get out right away, leaving the doors locked might cause problems, though I don’t suspect they’d be big ones. Worst case, I’d have to remember the doors are still locked and push an extra button to get out. So if your car auto-locks the doors when you put it in gear, maybe it should leave them locked when you park. (That would be good for parents who need to tell their kids something before they just jump out and run off to wherever they’re going.)
That’s surely not the worst case. What if the automatic locking works, but neither the automatic unlocking nor the press-button unlocking does?
I saw enough the first time I sat in a friend’s Tesla to ensure that I would never, ever buy one… and further than that, I’d avoid ever having to travel in one if I could avoid it.
Heh. I’m sure your friend thinks highly of you and your phobia, sonofrojblake.
(Hey, what does your friend think of their Tesla? Bet they are very happy with it; most owners are)
To Raging Bee @ 44, and KG @45, the discussion on strategy for door locks has been going on for years in the automotive industry with no agreement in sight. There are good cases to be made for a number of strategies, and most vehicles now come with a standard option and a way to change the strategy to meet the individual owner’s needs. The most common problem I’ve heard from people is when they accidentally put the rear doors into child-safe mode, where the rear-doors cannot be unlocked by the passengers in the back seat. Then they have the autolock when in Drive feature turned on. At that point when they ferry adult passengers around, those passengers cannot get out of the car until the driver unlocks their doors. That can be slightly embarrassing.
But there are a lot of options vehicles have which drivers are unaware of. For example, in every vehicle I know of you can get more information on vehicle faults than just an idiot light even without special equipment to read the vehicles computers. These days, by pressing a combination of “Info” and “Reset” buttons (sometimes together, sometimes in a pattern, etc.) you can get the error codes stored in the engine controller on the PRNDL display on your dash. On older cars by cycling the ignition in a certain pattern the dash lights would flash a code (like a klieg lamp) telling you what the error codes are in the vehicle. Many of these things are in the owner’s manual, some are in maintenance manuals, but all of them can now be found on-line.
Disclaimers:
— this post addresses the posts that follow #26, made by me.
— Elon Musk predictably may be seen by future historians as the person who contributed substantially to making life better on earth, for massive contributions towards energy independence, and for making homo sapiens a multi-planet species.
— i appreciate and respect Elon Musk.
— our Tesla 2023 Model 3 is the best vehicle i have ever owned.
— OTA (over the air) updates have made our Tesla an even better car since we bought it.
— we have driven it from Ontario to the coast of Nova Scotia and back with zero problems.
— FSD (Supervised) has driven us many kilometres with few interventions.
— Teslas are statistically likely the safest of all passenger vehicles.
— X (formerly known as Twitter) is the strongest social media supporter of free speech.
— i do not Tesla bash!
Raging Bee (RB) says: June 23, 2024 at 2:34 pm
{notes are mine, not RB’s}
??? Who??: “Oh looky, another Tesla fan breathlessly bashing Tesla buyers, and covering Tesla dealers’ sixes,”
“still no reason given for why the power-door-opening feature is a good idea or a significant and helpful improvement over what they had before.”
{Tesla’s feature does not open the door enough for most homo sapiens to exit;
it simply unlocks the door, then sets it slightly ajar, making exiting a Tesla easy.}
{Yes, imho a very good idea; i’ve owned various vehicles for many decades, and i would have welcomed this feature on any of them.}
{RB: reading manuals is definitely a best practice for many objects, cars included.}
{RB, one does not have to ‘RTFM nor watch a few “how to” videos online’ just to learn how to do something as basic as opening a car door.}
{One reads manuals to learn safety features, proper usage, and general features.}
{Both inside a Tesla from its display, and via its mobile application, and from many YouTube videos, learning about ones Tesla is both fun and informative.}
Raging Bee says: June 23, 2024 at 3:03 pm
{notes are mine, not RB’s}
{G =. good to know}
First, {good that} car owners’ manuals aren’t exactly small.
There’s a lot of stuff about things like tire pressure{G}, what the warning lights mean{G}, how to change tires{G} or work the cruise-control{G}, where the oil{Teslas never need oil changes} and various other fluids go, and other maintenance stuff you might need to do and can do yourself.
Adding more stuff explaining how to use previously-simple features that the makers{not Tesla} have just made more complicated, only makes said manuals bigger and at least a bit harder to find what you need in them.
{most of anything that i’ve needed to know is generally very easy to search from the Tesla’s display via native help}
{RB perhaps doe not realize the the Tesla staff are capable of speech; they simply tell customers about the emergency lever} (And if Tesla salestools have to show their customers videos in addition, that’s kind of an admission that they know the buyers will need more help than just “RTFM.”){Tesla staff do not show their customers videos; customer can find the videos easily enough}
And second, re: the fancy touch-screens and menus, , I’m all for keeping separate and always-visible buttons and other controls for most functions. My 2007 Prius has a small touch-screen, and whenever it’s in the shop they give me a shiny new loaner-car with a bigger touchscreen and fancy menus that don’t impress me at all,
{our Tesla has yet to be “in the shop”}
and which I can’t use while the car is moving anyway{Tesla controls are easy to use + Tesla also has voice controls}. Spiffiest and shiniest isn’t always best.
———--
{GPS on the large displays are exceptionally useful!}
{to be contined…}
Elon Musk predictably may be seen by future historians as the person who contributed substantially to making life better on earth, for massive contributions towards energy independence, and for making homo sapiens a multi-planet species.
Oh my god, this might even top GOTS’s “lab leak” blithering as quite possibly the stupidest thing I’m likely to read all week. And it’s only Monday!
In addition to being a total ignoramus, whose entire “genius” shtick has already been exposed and debunked, #QElon is a nazi-sympathizer who opposes democracy, and openly supports Trump and other democracy-hating bazillionaires in their ongoing campaign to divide the 99% against each other while they soak up even more wealth for themselves at everyone else’s expense. Oh, and that silly-assed Mars colony he’s been promising? Everyone knows it’s not happening, because, let’s face it, it CAN’T. Mohammed Bone-Sawman will finish building his Neom fantasy long before #QElon puts anyone on the Moon or Mars.
X (formerly known as Twitter) is the strongest social media supporter of free speech.
Okay, that really IS the stupidest thing I’ll read all week.
@ RB 51.
Perplexity . ai result:
Since Elon Musk acquired Twitter and rebranded it as X, the platform has undergone significant changes that impact its stance on free speech.
—
Changes and Policies
—
Monetization and Premium Features:
—
Musk introduced a tiered premium system where accounts with a certain number of followers receive free premium features, such as extended post and video uploads, larger reply prioritization, and fewer ads. Premium+ users enjoy these benefits without any ads and have access to an AI chatbot named Grok
—
.
Musk has also proposed a system where all users might have to pay a small monthly fee to combat bots, which could potentially limit access for some users
—
.
Content Moderation and Legal Challenges:
—
X has faced criticism and legal challenges regarding its content moderation policies. A U.S. judge dismissed a lawsuit filed by X against the Center for Countering Digital Hate, ruling that the platform was “punishing the defendants for their speech”
—
.
Musk has emphasized the need to balance free speech with combating hate speech, as highlighted in his conversation with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
—
.
User Base and Technical Issues:
—
Since Musk’s takeover, X has experienced a decline in daily active users, attributed to user frustration over content and technical issues
—
. This decline suggests that some users may feel the platform’s changes have negatively impacted their experience.
—
Vision for X
—
Musk envisions X as an “everything app,” similar to WeChat, integrating various services beyond social networking, such as financial transactions and shopping. This ambitious vision aims to create a comprehensive digital platform, but it remains to be seen how this will align with free speech principles.
—
Conclusion
—
Under Musk’s ownership, X has made several changes that reflect a complex stance on free speech. While the platform offers more features to premium users and aims to combat bots, it also faces challenges in balancing free speech with content moderation and user satisfaction. The overall impact on free speech is mixed, with some users appreciating the reduced censorship and others frustrated by the platform’s evolving policies and technical issues.
—
R.B., have you spent a reasonable amount of time on X to justify your position about X?
Your only source for a rebuttal is an AI? Go to bed.
Heh. Remember the Turing test?
(Well, you’ve just failed it in reverse, Raging Bee)
[mind you, some hold the Turing Test had gay overtones, which I am not qualified to opine upon]
Wow! This might have been arguable before Musk bought it, but certainly not since.
@flex: The windows function as you outlined. They lower slightly before the door opens.
@garnetstar: I had to look this one up but when the airbags deploy the doors unlock, the car calls 911 if I have my paired phone with me (very likely for reasons I outlined above), the windows lower about an inch, and some other things happen. I don’t know of any oddities with the door that would stop the jaws of life. I think they would need to be bullet proof or something to seriously impair that, the jaws of life is a machine purpose made to open up a car.
@RagingBee: The doors lock at I think 5mph or 10mph. They can be set to unlock automatically when the vehicle is put into park or you can have them stay locked. It’s a configurable option. Also, when I bought my Tesla they included an invitation to online classes going over how to operate the vehicle. I didn’t use it because I’m a techie and would figure out the details faster on my own. My guess is this covers the sort of things they include in their howto videos as well as some question and answer time. I don’t think this completely invalidates the overcomplexity issue but it does mean you only have to figure it all out on your own if you choose to, like I did. Will some people opt out just to avoid spending time on it even though they should? Absolutely! Which then complicates things again. So… still a mixed bag,
@53. RB, presumably you use Google and/or other search engines.
LLMs (Large Language Models) like perplexity et al are what search engines on steroids would be like.
RB, engage with perplexity . ai for a while; ask it tough questions; ask tough followup questions.
Trust search engines and LLMs with the same level of scrutiny as you would homo sapiens; search engines and LLMs are tools for assisting thought, not alternatives for thought.