Some of you old-timers may recall the days of yore when creationists would show up and make their sad little arguments in the comments here, and get thrashed around rudely until they squealed. Maybe you wonder where they went. Maybe you wish you had more opportunities to bash your head against a brick wall. Well, I can tell you: they’re on YouTube. The comments sections there are so much friendlier to fools.
I have an example for you, from one of my videos. Let’s see if you can figure out who is the creationist, and which one is me.
Is the space shuttle an example of intelligent design ?
Well a single living cell encompasses far more integrated functional complexity….so much so that after 150 years and billion dollar labs we still haven’t reverse engineered a single cell, much less duplicated even a single one of its proteins abinitio.Thats intelligent design.
I could have gone after the low-hanging fruit of his bad examples and mentioned Craig Venter’s minimal synthetic cell, or maybe, you know, insulin, but I tried to get to the core of his logic. It was a painful exercise in head-butting.
If there is one stupid argument that I could get out of the heads of creationists, it’s this one.
The argument is whether organisms were produced by design or by natural processes. We have natural processes that generate complexity, no design needed, so complexity is not a factor in discriminating between the two hypotheses. You want to know whether A or B is the cause for an orange being orange, and both A and B are capable of producing orange pigments, then announcing that the object being examined is orange in color does not allow you to say whether it whether it was produced by A or B. Do you even understand that elementary logic?
But there’s always the dull, dumb yokels who proudly declare “duh, the space shuttle is complicated, and it’s designed, therefore because cells are complicated, they are designed.” THIS IS NOT A VALID ARGUMENT.
But you guys keep trotting it out. I’m embarrassed for you.
PZ Myers
“The argument is whether organisms were produced by design or by natural processes. We have natural processes that generate complexity, no design needed, so complexity is not a factor in discriminating between the two hypotheses. ”Thats a straw-man PZ.
I said “integrated functional complexity” not merely complexity.
Living organisms and space shuttles are analogous in that both are machines requiring well defined integrated functional complexity to utilize an external energy source to preform their mechanical function.“You want to know whether A or B is the cause for an orange being orange, and both A and B are capable of producing orange pigments, then announcing that the object being examined is orange in color does not
allow you to say whether it whether it was produced by A or B. Do you even understand that elementary logic?”Circular reasoning.
Pigmentation is a property of a functionally complex thing you are trying to say arrived by random chance.
You don’t get it. Adding more words doesn’t change the problem.
The space shuttle has “integrated functional complexity”, and is designed.
Organisms have “integrated functional complexity”, and are evolved.
You don’t get to use “integrated functional complexity” as a criterion for distinguishing designed from evolved.
“You don’t get it. Adding more words doesn’t change the problem.”
If ” I don’t get it “, explain it with logic rather than insults.
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“The space shuttle has “integrated functional complexity”, and is designed.”
That’s correct.
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“Organisms have “integrated functional complexity”, and are evolved.”
That’s what you need to justify with blind chance.
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You don’t get to use “integrated functional complexity” as a criterion for distinguishing designed from evolved.
I am not, I am stating “integrated functional complexity is indeed a property of design, not natural process based on repeated observation.
If you can show an example of a system of integrated functional complexity, a unique property of machines produced by natural process, then I can take you seriously.
The question is whether “integrated functional complexity” is solely a product of design. You cannot demonstrate it by merely noting the existence of “integrated functional complexity”.
You are stating “integrated functional complexity is a property of design”. That’s the point in contention. The existence of “integrated functional complexity” (which, I note you haven’t even defined) is not sufficient evidence for its origin.
But if there’s anything I know about creationists, it’s that you won’t be able to comprehend the circularity of your claim and will just keep going around and around.
And that’s where I gave up. If any of you want to practice educating the uneducable, you know where to find them now.




