Any Catholics out there want to field this one? Despite my reputation, I’m not specifically anti-Catholic, just generally anti-religion, and these weirdly reactionary old school Catholics with their exceeding narrow interpretations of dogma just creep me out. This one comes from some guy who is absolutely convinced that the only true Christian is a Catholic, but at the same time, he argues that the current Pope is the anti-Christ, etc. I’m guessing he’s going to be lonely in heaven as the only True Catholic ever.
Hello
Pope Eugenius IV in His infallible Bull ‘Cantate Domino’ at the Council of Florence (1441) declared the Dogma: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes, and teaches that none of those who are not within the Catholic Church can ever be partakers of eternal life, but are to go into the eternal fire “prepared for the devil and his angels” unless before the close of their lives they shall have entered into that Church.”
See the following:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mhfm1
Unless a person becomes a Catholic before they die: they will never save their soul.
Right now you are in rebellion against the Truth. According to Theological writings Americans (generally speaking) are hyper-allergic to Christianity, spirituality, and to spiritual truth; but if you managed to overcome that initial hurdle you could discover the beauty of Truth. You will need to say many Hail Marys though. “American identity” is just not compatible with Christianity. Followers of the USA think themselves an exception to the Law of Water Baptism and indeed to all the moral Laws of God for which there are no exceptions. Well you are not “exceptional” and this is what makes you angry at Christianity.
Sadly the USA flag like the Confederacy flag is an anti-Christian symbol whose tricolore (red, white, and blue) represents the slogan “liberty, equality, fraternity” according to the World Atlas website. That revolutionary masonic slogan has been repeatedly condemned as heresy by Christianity because it represents man against God and the overthrow of Christian order and Monarchy which uphold inequality. Millions of Christians were murdered under that slogan (which you venerate via the flag). To learn true compassion and fairness for everyone please see www.mhfm1.com which has many fantastic videos and articles. Many have converted from the American religion to the Christian Faith.
Sincerely
Alexander Emerick
I’ve never said a “hail mary” in my life, and couldn’t if I tried. There’s some words? Do I need to make any mystical gestures?
The bizarre claims about flags at the end is just the ludicrous icing on a fusty old cake made of cobwebs and rotting parchment. No thanks.
Hey! Some of us are quite fond of rotting parchment thank you.
That’s much as we were taught at primary school. Of course, when the Pope proclaimed himself inflatible, he was in error…. though I suppose some RC type will come along and tell me that it wasn’t the Pope but the cardinals. In which case, no one has ever said cardinals are inflatible.
As for the flags, the British got red, white and blue first in the good old Union Jack since the 1600s, around Guy Fawkes’s time.
I love that these “infallible” documents are called “bulls”, though. Left of the last three letters did we?
Dang it. Ed got to it first.
Cantante Domino? I believe that mandates the playing of R&B music on the radio.
Lord have mercy!
Also
Hail Mary full of grace
Smash a pumpkin in your face!
Or something like that. Am I going to hell? I hope so, because eternity without the opportunity to meet Lowell George would be awfully boring.
Yeah, just scrap off the moldy ink, rinse throughly, and slow cook with oxtails, potatoes, leeks, carrots, and mushrooms, and serve with a piquante sauce and robust red vin. Careful slow cooking is essential, as otherwise it’s quite papery and chewy with a bland flavour.
Technically, he wasn’t wrong. That is more or less the RCC position, although the fire and so forth are meant to be metaphorical in some sense. Also, if it upsets certain people too much, they can always comfort themselves in the thought that it may have happened for their loved ones during/after death anyway, since God is supposed to be the only one who can actually know what his own judgment is. Infallibility is awfully easy when you play the game this way.
Heh. You know you got it bad* when the French aren’t Catholic enough for you.
*And that ain’t good.
Well, you don’t need to, but when (not if!) you’re doing the rosary every day, it wouldn’t hurt to fumble around with the beads in a suitably mystical fashion. I’m sure you’d easily have the prayers memorized for the rest of your life after the first week, and that’s when you can focus on more advanced techniques.
Phrasing it like that makes it pretty obvious that it’s self-serving, doesn’t it?
@2jacksprocket – When the Pope declared himself inflatible, was he in air?
No, eejiit. First, according to USFlag, the colours do not represent anything at all. Quoting a House report, “The colors red, white, and blue did not have meanings for The Stars and Stripes when it was adopted in 1777.”
Second, eejit, the probable World Atlas link is about the French flag, which is commonly called, in English, the “Tricolor”.
Third, eejit, if you read that last link, you’ll notice the association with liberté, égalité, fraternité is a convention; the actual “meanings” of the colours in the drapeau français is much more mundane.
And fourth, eejit, the World Atlas’s actual entry on the US flag does not say anything at all on the “meanings” of the colors.
Absolute fecking clewless eejit, albieit that was already quite obvious.
So some pope declared something. Shouldn’t they have made some effort to legitimize their source before invoking it? Who the bleep is Pope Eugenius IV? Why should I care? How can I verify that he was correct?
It’s a desperation throw in gridiron, an alleged sport. There are no mandatory words, although “ooof!” is probably said alot. And not so much mystical gestures as running around like crazy in armour.
“Unless a person becomes a Catholic before they die: they will never save their soul.”
As I don’t have a soul there is no need to worry.
Alexander Emerick, read what you quoted, with comprehension. Your infallible Pope is not saying that it is the undeniable fact of existence. He is saying they “believe”, “profess”, and “teach” it. You are extrapolating to think that everything they “believe” is undeniably a fact. The Catholicism I was raised in (CCD et al) taught that it was expected to question and not to blindly accept beliefs from each other. It was not a fringe offshoot of RCC.
What a Maroon – no no, the proper version is:
Hail Mary, full of grace.
Punch the devil in the face!
1) Why would the World Atlas web site be the prevailing authority for such a thing?
2) The phrase liberty, equality, fraternity is peculiarly French, as is the spelling of tricolore. If you check the World Atlas page on the flag of France, you will find the source of this incorrect attribution.
3) If you actually check the World Atlas page What Do The Colors Of The US Flag Mean? it says this:
Let’s check a different source, usflag.org
Liars gotta lie.
drst,
Oh well, I never was a Catlick. I still prefer my version–what has the devil ever done to me?
The Ye Pffft! of All Knowledge article him contains this:
Charming guy, basically, (the meaning of “Saracen” has drifted around).
Wow, I thought that we saw enough losers of past wars parading around in Charlottesville last month — never expected I’d run into an unreconstructed Loyalist to the Crown. (How else are we to interpret the “Monarchy” in the last paragraph?)
Death to the traitors Washington and Franklin! And, um, if you happen to have any of their portraits lying around the house, please send them to me.
I’m familiar with the Hail Mary. As I’ve heard it, it goes:
Apparently the pre-Vatican II version doesn’t include the word “fucking”, but they didn’t have CostCo parking lots before Vatican II either, so it probably wasn’t necessary back then.
Anyone want a conspiracy theory? The e-mail in the OP claims to be from “Alexander Emerick”, which just so happens to be the first two names of none other than überkook Alex Jones. Coincidence? Obviously. It’s a false flag because Benghazi!
brucegee1962
Probably not George III. Probably the Young Pretender, who was Catholic.
I never cease to be amazed at what people consider to be effective argumentation. People really think that quotes from the Bible or from a pope are supposed to convince atheists? I mean, Pascal’s Wager is a shitty “argument,” too, but at least it nods in the direction of “I’m not saying you should take this as the truth, but just consider the possibility that it is….”
Is it lack of intelligence, or just a failure to comprehend the atheist viewpoint (presumably based on that tired old gimmick that “atheists actually do believe in god, they’re just pretending not to because they want to avoid his rules”)?
For reference, if you do want to repent your heathen ways and join the One True Mother Church at all, the Hail Mary does indeed have a standard formula. The Koine Greek version, based on the Gospel of Luke, is just about acceptable to the ears of God when he’s feeling generous, but everyone knows that God’s favourite language is Medieval Latin and it only really works to full effect in that blessed tongue.
Áve María, grátia pléna,
Dóminus técum.
Benedícta tū in muliéribus,
et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Iésus.
Sáncta María, Máter Déi,
óra pro nóbis peccatóribus,
nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstrae. Ámen.
If you’re part of a religious community you’re supposed to recite the Angelus prayer communally three times a day – dawn, noon and dusk. This is a call-response prayer said alternatively by the cantor and the responding audience, where each pair of lines is interspersed with an Ave Maria as a chorus. There are four call-response couplets, three Ave Marias and then a final prayer line beseeching our friend Mr. Goddington on High for his benediction.
If you’re not, but still want to be a good catholic then you must get a set of rosary beads and do fifteen sets of ten Ave Marias, each set preceded by a Pater Noster (the Lord’s Prayer) and followed by a Gloria Patri (Glory Be), counting each one off in turn. Remember to do this in Medieval Latin as well, or the Big Shiny One in the sky might think you’re not being sufficiently respectful and start doing a little smiting.
Then, pinch of incense, confess to the local priest, keep quiet about his kiddy-fiddling and donate at least a tenth of your worldly wealth to the church and you’re good to go. The church are the people speaking in Medieval Latin, by the way, so if you hear the dulcet tones of God’s Own Language you should probably give whoever is using it some worldly wealth just to be sure. Stolen art treasures, the proceeds of bloody pogroms and PayPal (though we spell it without the y) are all accepted.
I don’t think a Catholic is going to help interpret this. It would be like having an orthodox Republican interpret the current US president’s “policies” in terms of the party platform. Alexander Emerick’s grasp on Church doctrine seems a bit tenuous. It is a pity, though, that he did not explore what the “American identity” is compatible with.
I was under the impression that the Stars & Stripes was simply a knock-off of a John Company flag.
Well, well, well, from a tongue-in-cheek conspiracy (@22) to about the real thing. The YouTube link in the OP leads to the channel for some nutters calling themselves the Most Holy Family Monastery, which the SPLC has listed as a hate group:
Indeed, a glance at their website does suggest considerable kookery (including Obama Derangement Syndrome) and fascist tendencies.
What involvement “Alexander Emerick” has with these loons, other than referencing some of their rantings, I have no idea.
Look, Da Rules were put down in 1441, which is a palindrome year, so you know it’s gotta be true. And the Pope said it, so it’s by definition infallible, unless contradicted by a future Pope who is also infallible, but more infallible than the other one.
The important thing to remember is you gotta be a member of the Club if you want into the white fluffy Man Cave in the sky, with the nachos and the beer and Game on tv 24/7. Cause, no Club dues, no entry. Yeah, I know they say that God is supposed to be your Father, and your own earthly real father would never be such a dick, but this is Perfect Love of the Heavenly Father, not some BS earthly love of a father for his son, so you gotta expect some shithead behavior.
So Pay Up already. The Bible says 10%; we only suggest 5%, cause we don’t wanna have to give it back to you as charity if you lose your house cause you donated too much to the Church. It happens, and it’s a hassle for the priests. So give until it hurts, but don’t permanently damage yourself. Your gonna have to be able to afford Catholic School for your kids, plus all the extra fund raisers and bake sales for our new roof, plus all the other stuff we need you to buy us.
And the calisthenics are easy to pick up. Just attend mass every Sunday for a year and you’ll be mindlessly repeating the same drivel we all do, and doing the stand-up-sit-down-kneel routine like a pro.
And you get to feel all superior to those others who won’t be let into the Club. All it takes is cash.
@ 24 screechymonkey
People really think that quotes from the Bible or from a pope are supposed to convince atheists?
Why not? Ronald Reagan sent the Supreme Leader of Iran sent a huge heart-shaped cake and a personally autographed copy of the Bible. If the “Good Book” could affect the Ayatollah, why not an atheist? I wonder if the cake was halal?
PZ, probably, is lighting candles while festooned with multi-coloured rosaries and swigging from a bottle of communion as I type.
Having been raised Catholic, this is my recollection: Hail Mary is an intercessory prayer (that is, you’re asking Mary to intercede for you when she talks to God, because he’s too busy to listen to your prayers or something). It praises Mary for being chosen by God to give birth to his avatar/son/himself. It’s one of the prayers that’s often assigned to “sinners” to recite a certain number of times as part of the “Confession/Absolution” “sacrament”. How reciting chants is supposed to remove one’s transgressions is something I still don’t understand.
This is from something I’m writing that required me to read a lot of papal encyclicals. Some of the statements by your Catholic correspondent reminded me of this particular passage from a Sept. 14, 1998, encyclical (Faith and Reason) by John Paul II that praised philosophy but insisted that faith, specifically Christianity, brought a higher truth. He proclaimed:
“7. Underlying all the Church’s thinking is the awareness that she is the bearer of a message which has its origin in God himself (cf. 2 Cor 4:1-2). The knowledge which the Church offers to man has its origin not in any speculation of her own, however sublime, but in the word of God which she has received in faith (cf. 1 Th 2:13). At the origin of our life of faith there is an encounter, unique in kind, which discloses a mystery hidden for long ages (cf. 1 Cor 2:7; Rom 16:25-26) but which is now revealed: ‘In his goodness and wisdom, God chose to reveal himself and to make known to us the hidden purpose of his will (cf. Eph 1:9), by which, through Christ, the Word made flesh, man has access to the Father in the Holy Spirit and comes to share in the divine nature’. …
“13. The [Vatican I] Council teaches that ‘the obedience of faith must be given to God who reveals himself.’ This brief but dense statement points to a fundamental truth of Christianity. Faith is said first to be an obedient response to God. This implies that God be acknowledged in his divinity, transcendence and supreme freedom. By the authority of his absolute transcendence, God who makes himself known is also the source of the credibility of what he reveals. By faith, men and women give their assent to this divine testimony. This means that they acknowledge fully and integrally the truth of what is revealed because it is God himself who is the guarantor of that truth. They can make no claim upon this truth which comes to them as a gift and which, set within the context of interpersonal communication, urges reason to be open to it and to embrace its profound meaning. This is why the Church has always considered the act of entrusting oneself to God to be a moment of fundamental decision which engages the whole person. In that act, the intellect and the will display their spiritual nature, enabling the subject to act in a way which realizes personal freedom to the full. It is not just that freedom is part of the act of faith: it is absolutely required. Indeed, it is faith that allows individuals to give consummate expression to their own freedom. Put differently, freedom is not realized in decisions made against God. For how could it be an exercise of true freedom to refuse to be open to the very reality which enables our self-realization? Men and women can accomplish no more important act in their lives than the act of faith; it is here that freedom reaches the certainty of truth and chooses to live in that truth. …”
In plain English, slavery is freedom.
Although the encyclical overall acknowledged late 20th-century concepts of multiculturalism and personal freedom — John Paul II praised other cultures and religions as part of a search for truth — the two sections quoted above show that nothing in the attitude of the highest official of the Roman Catholic Church had changed in any fundamental way from the attitudes of the popes during the centuries. John Paul II claimed his truth was the only, ultimate truth because his church speaks for a god, and the god speaks through his church, and real freedom was submission to that god as revealed only through Christianity, and only through the Roman Catholic Church’s version. Here’s the key quote again: “By the authority of his absolute transcendence, God who makes himself known is also the source of the credibility of what he reveals. By faith, men and women give their assent to this divine testimony. This means that they acknowledge fully and integrally the truth of what is revealed because it is God himself who is the guarantor of that truth.”
Circular logic: God says it. How do we know? The church says god said it. How do we know the church speaks for god? Because god says it does, speaking through the church.
I find my soul saver fits tidily inside my cake saver in my kitchen cabinet.
@consciousness razor #8
Coupled wth the revolutionary slogan (popularized a number of years AFTER the US adopted RW&B for our flag colors, btw) liberté, égalité, fraternité I suspect the crackpot is referring to the French Revolution where they did lovingly apply the Razor of Democracy to a great many priests, decoupled the Church from the state and started taxing them heavily.
@Carto, I’ll give it a shot. I know the prayer in English, even was an alter boy at the same time a pedo priest was in town and regularly lectured us kids about morality, but luckily I wasn’t his type.
Hail Mary ,grace full (shouldn’t that be gratiae plena?)
The Lord (is) with you
Blessed (are) you in (the number of) women
et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Iésus.
And blessed is the fruit of your gus, Jesus
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for our sins
Now and when we pine for the Fjords. Amen.
About correct?
I thought I posted a comment, but it doesn’t seem to be working.
Apologies if this turns out to be a repost:
@Carto, I’ll attempt to translate
Hail Mary, grace full (not gratiae plena?)
The Lord (is) with you
Blessed are you (in the number of) women
And blessed is the fruit of your guts, Jesus (Ventris belly area, not sena or whatever womb is)
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for our sins
Now and when we kick the bucket. Amen
How’d I do?
Why pray to Mary if God isn’t a person? There were guys recently on Mano’s arguing some Thomistic scat that God wasn’t a person and prayer was basically for the prayer as therapy. What a waste of medieval Latin, at least it wasn’t the Latin of Cicero wasted!
He lost me with “Infallible Bull.”
Oh, and I love how he cites a Youtube video to back up a Papal edict from 1441.
Since the doctrine of papal infallibility only dates to 1870, it’s a bit of a stretch to ascribe it to some minor 1441 scribbling.
Wikipedia talks about the doctrine but doesn’t list this as a prior example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility.
More god bothering word salad
Brian English, #35
Not too bad.
The “gratia” in the first line is actually an ablative (of quality) modifying plena, so more literally it’s “full (with regard to) grace”.
.
The second line has elided the verb (to be), so we can supply either the indicative as you did (“The Lord is with you”), or the subjunctive (“Let the Lord be with you”). Either works. Same for the following lines.
“in the number of women” just about gets it across, but “among women” would probably sound more natural in English.
Ventris is indeed “of the belly”. Womb, quite unsurprisingly, is “uterus” in Latin. Sena is the neuter plural of the distributive for six (“six each”). I’m not sure where that came in.
“pro nobis pecatoribus” is ” for we sinners”, not “for our sins” (that would be “pro peccatis nostris”)
Bucket kicking is fair for “in hora mortis nostrae”. I’m not sure why there is only one death for everybody. Perhaps they know something we don’t.
Anyway, I think it passes muster. You are now officially eligible for the privilegium clericale and can avoid the punishments of secular courts should you do something untoward. PZ might throw a bit of worldly wealth your way too, if he decides to renounce his apostasy and return to the See of Rome.
What a moron? @ # 5 — Or may be this Domino for some R&B.
@ #40:
“Sena” seems relate to Italian “seno” (“bosom/breast/womb”). Apparently related to Latin “sinus” (“bosom,” among other meanings). In French, “sein.”
Popes can create a cardinal “in pectore” (“in [my] bosom/heart”), related to Italian “petto” (“chest/bosom”). In French, “poitrine.” In English, “he has great pecs.”
@Carto, I messed up with Sena, I meant Seno, which @robnyny correctly picked out.
http://dle.rae.es/?id=XZnzy5h
Sometimes I drop from Latin to Romance from time to time.
@robnyny Pecho in Spanish shares the root word Pector as well. It means breasts, and there’s a slang word. Pechuga which can mean breast meat (i.e. chicken breast = pechuga de pollo) and used in plural – pechugas, means jugs or tits. Pecs is just an abreviation of pectorals I think.
And of course it’s Pectus, not pector!
I think I need more practice before I become head inquisitor.
@Carto, I read an paper on something to do with probability before, and it used the word aleatory. I should have known what it meant, but I’ve forgotten somewhere down the line. Anyway, after a quick search, I could only think of Gaius Julius Caesar throwing his dice beside the Rubicon. Anyway, that’s nothing about nothing. Just my sleep deprived brain making odd connections.
Brian English, #46
Yes, “aleatory” means “to do with gambling” in English – from aleator, a gambler or player of dice games (literally “dice man”, alea being a die, from axlea – a joint bone, from axis, which is the same in English (cf. Gk. “axon”).
Alternatively it’s a term for cornering a Conservative politician in a narrow dead-end street. Something for which I’d advise thick gloves and a breathing mask at the very least.
“Ventris” shows up in English in “ventriloquist” (“belly talker”). Compare German “Bauchredner” (“belly talker”).
Jado
Oh, so that’s what you get when you don’t preview.
Never mind.
@Carto, I was thinking ‘Alea iecta est’ .But yeah, aleatory has to do with gambling, or chance.
How many Hail Marys does one need to say to wash the stain away after this? Touching a Tory, even with protection? Brave man.
Also, is the Alley to be bricked off with the Tory still in it?
As an artist, I acknowledge that colors can have meaning, but it really doesn’t work the way this guy thinks it does. Red doesn’t become egalité just because someone said so.
Abbott Augustin Barruel was one of the great Founding Fathers of conspiracy theorists. He wrote a book (published as soon as 1797) about how the French Revolution was actually a judeo-masonic plot.
(Classic reasoning : “Truth and justice were on our side, and yet we lost ! How could it be ? Surely there are some dark dealings implied.”)
Apparently, his “thought” lives on.
FTFY.
Unfortunately, Charles III died without legitimate issue, as did his younger brother, Henry IX and I. The rightful King of England, Scotland, Ireland and France – and of course, the revolting American colonies – is Francis II, who also happens to be the rightful KIng of Bavaria. Third in the line of succession is Prince Joseph Wenzel of Liechtenstein, the first of the rightful line of succession to James II and VII to be born in Britain since James III and VIII. If that’s not a message from God, I don’t know what is!
robro @ 41,
I’ve been called worse, but I should point out that Maroons are not morons. With a few exceptions, of course.
Anyway, yes, that was the Domino that Van was singing about.
Doh! I looked at the name in the post and the way I had typed it several times, forgetting every time why I was looking at it. I knew something was wrong, but couldn’t figure it out. Perhaps my 70 years was showing. My apologies. I rarely use “moron”. And I didn’t know that Morrison’s song was about Fats. I’m starting my day feeling particularly moronic.
robro,
No worries; it gave me a laugh this morning.
And to be honest, I didn’t know that the song was about Fats till yesterday. When I composed my post I was dudando between that and a Fats song, but when I found that out, and also learned that Google translates “Cantante Domino” as “Sing to God”*, it struck me as the perfect hymn for the Church of Fats. (All you Claptonite heretics will be doomed to an eternity of “Tears in Heaven”.)
*Sadly, despite all my years of linguistics, language teaching, language learning, and language testing, I never learned Latin, so I’ll have to trust Herr Doktor Google until cartomancer sets me straight.
#58
“Cantate Domino” is indeed “Sing to the Lord”. It’s a plural imperative, so it’s a command to several people – “you lot, sing to the Lord!”.
Cantante Domino, on the other hand, would be an ablative absolute using the present participle: “with the Lord singing” or “given that the Lord sings”.
Evidently my Spanish is sneaking in; that would be “Singer Domino” (though of course Spanish demands the definite article there; really should be “el cantante Domino”).
Thanks for setting me straight.
So I looked at the videos he supplied. Allow me to respond in a similar style.
To the nutjob, not the board. Sorry it’s been a long day.
gijoel@61/62, Father Jack, et al., of Craggy Island are, singly and combined, vastly more sensible than the kook quoted in the OP, who is referencing videos from a überloon site (@27) — and that’s despite Father Ted, etc., being fictional, albeit I note the name quoted in the OP, “Alexander Emerick”, is also a bit odd & possibly fictional (@22).
I’ve always been amused by conservative Catholics’ inconsistency with regards to papal authority. When they LIKE the pope, as they did JPII and Pope Palpatine, everyone is just supposed to shut up and obey: the pope said it, and that settles it!
But when they DON’T like the pope, it’s a completely different story. They feel perfectly free to criticize, name-call, and even call his Catholicism into question.