I’m really upset. I mean, I’m not in this activism thing for the recognition, but being deliberately excluded like this just gets old. When I woke up, word was going around that some subliterate PUA name of “Roosh,” which probably rhymes with something funny, had compiled what he no doubt considers an exhaustive list of The 9 Ugliest Feminists In America. [Update: we may have killed his server, which, you know. Dang. Here’s the Google cache.] So I went, first thing waking up this morning, to take a look.
Pharyngula is not responsible for broken monitors
Just seeing the title, I was pretty sure I had a lock on at least Mister Congeniality. But no. Despite the inclusion of several of my friends not only was I not included, but there is not a single feminist man in the entire list. I feel so very left out — not to mention offended on behalf of my gender. I mean, come on: look at this photo of yours truly. Tell me seriously I don’t deserve a spot on that list.
And yet, in his bio, the author claims to be all about the menz:
Roosh has been blogging for several years over at RooshV.com about travel and women. He has also authored several books on how to get laid in the United States, South America, and Eastern Europe. He launched Return Of Kings in October of 2012 to serve the needs of masculine men.
I just don’t get it. My needs have not been served here.
It’s worth noting as both observation and trigger warning how quickly the comments devolve into anti-semitism. What a shock that antifeminists can also hate people who aren’t all necessarily women!
I feel your pain Chris. As for Roosh, I haven’t taught junior high school in decades, and his list is almost seventh grade funny. It is the type of stuff 12 years old boys giggle about. So if that’s your audience, you rock Roosh! Now grow up.
BTW, the link to the list is not working nor is this one:
http://www.returnofkings.com/2099/the-9-ugliest-american-feminists
Crap. I didn’t make the cut, either.
We should count ourselves lucky, though. With those guys, negging is usually a precursor to trying to have sex with you.
We may have broken his server with Pharyngulan traffic. Oopsie!
Here’s the Google cache.
What disgusting sewer. Women are referred to as “becoming worthless” enough to make “your pump and dump list.”
I must not have the aesthetics of a manly man, I did not see one ugly woman in that list.
God, that’s hideous.
None of those women are even remotely ugly. None of those women even remotely approach what can be considered ugly.
Not only that, he’s clearly a Conservative cause he totally mislabels what Sandra Fluke was talking about.
dude, you eliminated yourself from consideration.
With that last photo of Jen, I’m now feeling jealous that we don’t have Lay’s potato chips with ketchup here.
Ok, yes well, this is obviously atrocious. That neither Chris nor PZ were included, not my complaint about potato chips.
Janine:
Neither did I. Alas, I have not the makings of a pisscake.
Chas @8: your hypothesis assumes literacy on the part of Mr. Roosh.
That post confuses me. Those women are all good-looking.
Silly PZ, didn’t you know men can’t be feminists? I mean, how would that even work?
Seriously though, I’ve found that anyone who identifies as a PUA is someone I want to avoid at all costs, I’ve yet to meet one who isn’t a vile piece of shit. I’m also going to have to pile on and agree that none of those women are even close to ugly. I’d guess he is the type who likes Barbie dolls with a pulse.
When they say ugly, they mean “waaah, her uppityness hurts my itty bitty feelings”.
fantysq:
They have braaiins. Man braaaiins, not the approved fluffy pink lady brainz™ all proper wimmin should have – if they had those, they’d be busy starving themselves and desperately trying to win the attention of douchebags, which is the only right and proper business of wimmins.
Echoing Greta Christina, it is not the point whether any of these people “are” ugly or not.
Agreed.
Yep, every single woman listed is in fact beautiful. But let’s not go there: would the article be any less offensive if that wasn’t true?
Chris:
Of course not. However, most of us are familiar with the refrain of roosh and his ilk (some of us read manboobz way too much ) and he generally finds all women ugly, in one aspect or another. He wouldn’t have that much of a problem with the women on his list if they weren’t insistent on using their brains, ya know.
Well, I don’t think anyone ever is ugly (except for myself on bad days.)
Of course not, and we (unintentionally) lend support to the idea that it’s normal and unremarkable to reduce women to grades of meat when we say “but she’s not ugly.”
Beauty is subjective. Any judgement in terms of “ugly” or “beautiful” is objectively useless.
I had to muster the courage to read such post. I glanced at it, I watched the pictures, I saw nothing exceptional about those women, I left. I expected nothing from that site than waste of time and another surge of depression from human stupidity, and I got exactly what I expected.
It pains me that grown-ups are capable to use the “yo’ ugly!” argument. It seems juvenile beyond pale. And the irony is I had to explain this to my female coleagues as well – they themselves got trapped in this kind of trashtalk about women they disagree with, who overcame them in career, money or whatever. I thought one does not need to be university educated, feminist or identify as such to understand that ad hominem fallacy and baseles insults do not constitute an argument. Even in the face of evicence I never cease to wonder that the kind of thinking that site represents is not the exception. It is a rule.
true.
Perhaps his medium, then, is indeed the photo essay. (As you can see, Mr. Roosh is no misogynist. He loves girls! He just prefers them willowy, silent, depicted two-dimensionally, and from 40 years ago is all.)
(do not read the comments. repeat do not read the comments.)
@Chris
I clicked on Chas’ link with extreme trepidation, worrying that I may discover that yet another of the people I admire has feet of clay. But now I’m very happy.
Hmmm..anyone else see a disturbing resemblance between PZ’s pic above and the giant head from Zardoz?
http://stomptokyo.com/img-m2/zardoz-b.jpg
I may be on to a whole new conspiracy here…
Still cannot get to the current version of the page. But I do think that this exchange says all that needs to be said about the self proclaimed king.
jessicavalenti
January 15, 2013 at 9:32 am
Awww…you’re negging. So CUTE.
Correction
January 15, 2013 at 9:52 am
Nope. Negging is only useful on attractive women.
Roosh
January 15, 2013 at 10:16 am
True, and only when you want to actually have sex with said woman.
Jessica: you’ve greatly harmed America. You’re on my list.
jessicavalenti
January 15, 2013 at 10:24 am
Roost – I can see I’m on your list. But #2 is not enough.
I want to be #1!
Heh
January 15, 2013 at 10:25 am
If you want to be #1 among such strong competition, you’ll have to gain a lot of weight. Get back to us when you’re done with that…
“look at this photo of yours truly”
Aaaargh my eyes! Actually, I looked that good a few years ago (on a good day), though with a bit less hair on top. Still, the phrase “below the fold” wasn’t invented for naught, ya know.
Must be very sad for Roosh, going through life seeing ugliness where there is beauty. One shudders at what his idea of beauty must be.
A Hermit:
Pssssssssst, you might want to check the byline on this post.
re #25
Chris, this is getting worse.
They think you are PZ even with photographic evidence to the contrary.
Chigau, no, no, it’s proof! Proof that PZ and Chris are the same person! Oh gods, it’s true, everyone else on the planet is a sockpuppet of the Evil Professor (We don’t speakhis name!), aauuggh…
I can’t remember the providence of this quote, but I feel it applies here. Paraphrasing some wit: “If I wanted to listen to jerks brag about their impossibly high beauty standards while complaining that those not meeting those arbitrary standards have dared enter their eyesight, I’d go back to judging dog shows.”
Caine
It’s like that business in Harry Potter where Vold… was the back of Quirrell’s head!
Chigau @29: it must have been the squid in the photo background that confused them. That IS a squid, right?
Sure, Chris, it’s a squid.
I spiky, green, desert squid.
They exist, right?
Giant Palm Squid. Yep.
Wait wait.
Squid live in trees now?! Oh god! I’m never coming out of my house again!!!
Caine:
Are they a subspecies of the Sonoran Palm Squid?
Katherine:
Google “Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus.” (Please note, my period was inside the quotes)
The guy writes date rape manuals. That’s not just ugly, it is repulsive. So, of course he’s also the kind of person who is hypercritical of others even as he demonstrates that the best response he can deliver to his critics is, “Oh yeah? We’ll you’re ugly!” I expect the experience of having to come in contact with this vile creep feels alot like stepping on a slug* barefoot.
*No offence intended toward slugs. Aside from being slimy, I’m sure they have nothing in common with Roosh.
Ogvorbis:
My best guess would be…yes.
Of course his entire post is outrageous, but I had to laugh particularly at his comment on Sandra Fluke. So, he wants to be a PUA, but doesn’t think women should have reasonable access to birth control?
Pascal, Roosh also likes to brag that he never uses a condom.
Yeah, he’s that level of weapons grade toxic asshole.
They shouldn’t, and of course he shouldn’t pay any child support to the sperm thief he nagged into bed either.
PUAs are nothing but loathsome.
He said those women were ugly but he forgot to say “and their mothers dress them funny. So there. Nyah!”
“You’re ugly” is what arguing five year olds say.
Josh @16:
QFT. I’ve gotta confess, “but they’re not ugly” did flash through my mind. Thanks for reminding me that’s not any better than Roosh’s train of thought.
Hmmm; I see what you mean Cain.
Sorry Chris. All you hirsute types look alike to a baldy like me…(walks away muttering something nasty about Vidal Sassoon under his breath…)
I remember a particularly long and unpleasant interaction I had with a fellow member of the geek circles I run in.
He prided himself on trying to “break” the stereotype that geek women don’t exist, and when they do exist, they’re “ugly”. I explained to him probably about one zillion times that it was none of his damn business, and that none of us geek women needed him to validate our existence, regardless of how attractive he thought we were.
There’s little difference between this self-appointed judge of female beauty and that self-appointed judge of female beauty.
It’s not okay even when you spin it in the “good” direction.
Perhaps that’s more of an admission that he’s never in a situation where he might need to use one, rather than bragging. It’s certainly an indicator of stupidity. Not only is he endangering anyone he has sex with, regardless of gender or species, but he’s also endangering himself. You would think he might have some selfish interest at least, but obviously intelligence didn’t come with those genes.
Rodney:
The sexist culture we’re all swimming in keeps on perpetuating the importance of looks, that your appearance is all tied up in your sense of self and self-respect when it comes to girls and women, leads these douchecakes to continue thinking that “you’re ugly!” is the most hurtful thing to fling a woman’s way.
He sells razors? Seriously, when a guy makes a big deal about his manly male masculinity, it just suggests insecurity to me.
Bingo. The more he brags about all the unprotected rape he’s having, the more I’m convinced he’s not.
Robo, if you have a strong stomach, pop over to Manboobz and see for yourself just how nasty a creature this Roosh person is. He doesn’t care if he endangers them, they’re only women after all. As for his own safety, it isn’t nearly as important as him feeling like a studly alpha dude.
You all have some good points.
I hope he’s lying. If he isn’t, I hope he sees the inside of a prison cell very soon and for a long time.
Robro:
It’s about the power dynamic and control, same as in a rape. By refusing to use a rubber, he’s affirming he’s the one with the power and control over the woman. That he’s also an idiot is a given.
Defensive about his masculinity seems to be the operative notion. Check out his photo of a few years back and tell me that’s not a bad “used up all the mascara” beard enhancement job.
Oh, and Roosh apparently denied direct links from this site, so if you had trouble getting through that’s why. Fortunately the Internet reroutes traffic around damage.
Chris:
Whether he is truly insecurity based or genuinely sees himself as a chest-beating alpha male doesn’t matter. What does matter is the harm and damage he does by spreading this shit all over the place and attracting other men to his way of thinking.
I’ll add that a man doesn’t have to be a walking bundle of insecurity to fall into this sort of thing, either. A lot of men out there, frinst., have had a bad relationship experience, which has left them angry or frustrated or hurt or bitter or any combination thereof, who find solace in the game.
Also, where does commenting on his physical appearance get us? His level, perhaps?
Heeey, wait a minute–ALL of these women are WHITE women! Roosh missed a great chance to combine sexism with racism and hate on some women of color! Well, except for the group photo at the top of the page from the SlutWalk, but those women apparently don’t rate a name-check. I for one am offended that he didn’t include Jamila Bey or Sikivu Hutchinson on the list. He’s helping perpetuate the stereotype that feminism is just for white middle-class women. Bad Roosh! Bad!
The problem, Chris, is that “ugly male” is barely even a concept to Roosh and his ilk. How they see the world: Beauty is not only an entirely objective reality that is clearly visible in the same way to everyone, but is only meaningful as applied to women. After all, as everyone knows, women are attracted to men solely on the basis of their checkbooks and their ability to play psychological games, and non-heterosexuals are clearly just making shit up to mess with us. Speaking of non-heterosexuality, if Roosh expressed any opinion whatsoever on male attractiveness that would of course make him Ghey, and that would just be the worst.
Seriously, the extent to which an entire ass-backwards worldview underlies the opinions of Roosh and other members of the PUA and MRA crowds cannot be stressed enough.
Let it also be known that I agree with Caine: Roosh’s trademark pestilent blather most certainly does not need to come from insecurity, and whether it comes from insecurity or not is very much beside the point.
That was intended as a jab at behavior rather than appearance, but nonetheless your point is well taken.
Somehow this reminded me now of the guy who wrote post about 10 most beautiful female scientists a few years ago. Different expression of the same sentiment, the same culture. As far as I remember he got it in the end, after some explaning, withdrew it and apologized. It is good to remember, that sometimes discussing these things actually does lead somewhere and changes minds for the better.
(Although I think in this particular instance it is futile.)
BTW, is there a way for commenters to tag text as Gumby-speak? I’d like to use it simply because I’m sometimes worried that my attempts at sarcasm will be heard as sincere.
We are far too mature and adult to make fun of Roose’s looks, but I think his photo is an ideal candidate for the Unhappy Hipster treatment.
epiblast, the only way for us lowly commenters to do comic sans right now is to use
<blockquote cite= “creationist”> </blockquote>
Of all the insults they could have used, “ugliest” is the most ridiculous. Apparently it still hasn’t occurred to them that we don’t actually care what they think. It is not only not our job to meet whatever their attractiveness requirements are, it’s literally the very last concern we could possibly have.
Ranks down there with “ensuring exactly 5,000 microbes fit on the head of a pin” and “identifying the most distasteful shade of chartreuse”.
Ah, thanks, Caine. Sorry, been lurking for a long time.
Well, wading through Roosh’s misogyny was a deeply unpleasant experience. I have no idea why he considers those ten women to be unattractive. It seems that you have to be a fellow misogynist arsehat to share his aesthetic on such matters.
I can’t work out whether Roosh actually sees himself as some kind of Alpha male ideal, or is simply a deeply insecure prat. Every petty, sniping word on that article of his seems to point toward insecurity and a fear of women who don’t conform to his nasty, misogynistic ideal of submissive mindlessness, but at the same time his massive sense of superior, self satisifed entitlement seems to point toward someone who buys wholeheartedly into his own male supremacist blather and genuinely does see himself as supeior to ‘mere’ women.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. Whether he is an insecure twerp or a delusional idiot who thinks he is the ultimate expression of manhood, it is all the same in the end; he is still a revoltingly misogynist poor excuse for a human being either way.
Caine — I forgot the tags. I understand the rationalization…and that he probably even believes it. But another reason he might never use a condom is because he never has sex, at least not with any other human or even sentient being.
As an addendum to my 67; of course the relative attractiveness of the women in question is irrelevant. Only their ideas matter – anything else is a distraction.
So you are telling me that a blog out of those typical places that complain about discrimination against men and feminism have actually discriminated against men in their list of ugliest feminists?
That’s just wrong.
Another douchebag determined to make feminist’s point for them. A post simply stating “Why yes, they do have a point about sexism– look at me; I’m a raging example of it” would have been more succinct, Roosh.
Those women are being attacked for their ideas. Just read what the assclam has to say about all of them. Or the exchange in the comments. Rooch whines at one point that Jessica Valenti is harming America. Trying to critique how they look is just the typical MRA ploy of dismissing what they have to say.
Multitasking bigots. I’m impressed.
… is this some even uglier relative of crank magnetism?
@73: Honestly, it’s my experience that most bigots multitask their bigotry whether or not they set out with the aim of doing so. If you’re bigoted against one group, you’re likely to be bigoted against others as well.
Jnorris, you’ve been around long enough to realize that “it’s just immature teenage boys behaving like that” is bullshit that lets grown-ass misogynists fly under the radar.
Josh:
This is very true. See any feminist discussion about body image into which men come to “reassure” the women that their boners approve of said women.
That said, the list does indicate that the compiler’s standards are, at best, bizarre. Is there a way to acknowledge this without reinforcing the “meat” dynamic? Serious question, not rhetorical.
Doosh and his followers have reading comprehension problems, too. Kay Hymowitz being a “feminist” is news to me, given that she’s a staple over on City Journal. And indeed, if you look at the summary of her book that Doosh is whining about, you’ll see that she’s blaming feminism and getting high-fived for it by such notables as Bill Bennett, Caitlin Flanagan, and some asshole who wrote a book called The Year of Living Biblically.
jba55:
The pulse is optional.
Robro: If he contracts an STI from an encounter, he’ll just blame the woman for being a “dirty whore.” If he gives a woman an STI, at best, like Jackiepaper says, he’ll be unable to care less.
Epiblast: Well said.
Charly, if you’re thinking of Luke what’s-his-face, IIRC he offered only a fauxpology.
AJ: It’s a common phenomenon. If you hate one group who’s lower on the social scale than you are, why not hate ’em all, because none of them must be as deserving as you are? At least once Manboobz has done a piece on MRAs spewing overt, St0rmfr0nt-level racism, and then there’s the lovely example of Satoshi Kanazawa.
Epiblast: Jinx.
Having actually done this (not deliberately), I can unequivocally say I prefer the slug.
Janine:
She ought to use that on the jacket of her next book!
That one’s a hoax. Here’s the real deal: Proof.
Janine: Hallucinating Liar @ 72;
Absolutely right. It speaks volumes that Roosh leads with an attack on appearance; as you say, MRAs try to attack the appearance of feminists in no small part to cover the fact that they don’t have any credible basis on which to oppose the arguments of feminists, beyond the ususal ‘but what about teh menz’ whining and delusional conspiracy theories about ‘sperm jacking’. He wants to attack what feminists say, but I think even Roosh knows, deep down, that he doesn’t stand a chance in a free marketplace of ideas, so he tries every dirty trick he can think of to mask the feeble inadequacy of his own position.
So an intellectual coward in additional to all his other charming attributes.
I suppose the thing that is going to keep completely confusing me, is why it is that misogynists think that a grown feminist woman is going to get upset if a random dude declares her to be ugly.
Jessica Valenti appeared in the comments, demanding that she be #1.
I don’t think there is a way. I suppose the best way to put it would be “they’re all similar to conventional standards of beauty.”
I did end up falling into Doosh’s trap of momentarily evaluating these people on my own (pretty conventional) standards and was always able to find multiple things that fit *my* standard. Not that what I think they should look like matters.
fantysq:
That is not the fucking point. The point is to reinforce his hateful rhetoric, to shore up the boy’s club to keep on trying to put women back in their place. He doesn’t give a fuck about whether or not the women in question give a fuck.
@ Caine, Fleur du mal +
I didn’t mean just this instance, but the tendency to throw out a “…and you’re ugly!” in general.
fantysq:
I already answered that, upthread @48.
IMO, you can focus on the arbitrariness of it. Any enforced aesthetic standard for people is unhealthy, but this is clearly an arbitrary standard invented to insult women, rather than someone automatically going along with the (still damaging) societal standards. Either would be offensive and wrong, but one is the offensiveness of unthinkingly causing harm. This is the offensiveness of purposefully doing so.
Ewwww, I made the mistake of reading some of Douches’, oops sorry I mean Roosh’s website.
Creepy tips on how to pick up women around the world, and the sort of juvenile tips that a sex crazed adolescent might think up out of ignorance eww, eww, eww!
A pity he doesn’t have a photo anywhere to show how “handsome” he is next to all of these women he has labelled as ugly, none of whom is, though as others have pointed out that is in fact irrlevant.
What I can say is he has a very ugly, ugly outlook on life, and on women in particular.
Ooops, just spotted Chris’s link upgroup to a picture of Roosh. Personally I don’t think he is any less physically “ugly” than any of the women he commented on.
Though in terms of his view of women (and no doubt other groups he discriminates again) he truly has an ugly view of life and what it means to be a decent human being
Of course, it isn’t really about ugly here. It’s about uppity bitchezz. But we knew that. RooshV is probably the kind of person who thinks flat-chested women shouldn’t wear tight shirts or v-necks.
Those women are supposed to be ugly? Is Roosh blind?
Ahh, whatever. What a shallow douchebag.
Tethys
“He realized he was having an existential crisis when he found himself thinking that Trudy, his inflatable sex-doll, was becoming too assertive.”
epikt:
You know, this sort of shit does. not. help. In fairness, neither did Tethys’s post with that link. I didn’t click on it. If it were Roosh or one of his buddies applying pretend captions to photos of women, I somehow think it wouldn’t go over well.
I was just thrown into a brief consideration of how much teh menz is like the concept of the Man.
How similarly authoritarian they are, indeed.
Daisy:
Ha! I’ve read that.
Shorter YoLB: It’s impossible to understand, let alone follow, Old Testament laws (duh). However, AJ Jacobs came away from the experience with a renewed sense of spirituality.
In other words: the moral of the story is so much hot barf.
—
I ♥ Jessica Valenti even more now that she’s demanded to be #1!
Okay, the weirdest part of the post?
I, uh, wut?
Audley:
Oh c’mon, you’re surprised he doesn’t grok biology 101?
;D
But I can’t even snark it! It’s so fucking stupid that it cannot be parodied.
I did not quote that bit about the jaw because, well, there was only so much stupid I wanted to play with. But one fool was so in love with that, he created an account that incorporated “jaw” into the moniker.
I had to draw the line somewhere.
Audley @ #97: Well shit, I must not be a real feminist. I have teeny little jaws that made wisdom tooth extraction the worst. Even a manly surgeon said I have small jaws. Suddenly my predilection for baking and nail polish make sense.
Audley:
True. It’s that very special brand of stupid. It’s interesting, them not getting the desperation which reeks in such pathetic “explanations”. They have all the charm of sour rat farts.
I like how feminists can’t just have ideas that this douche hates, something must have gone wrong with our development. We’re not wrong, we’re freaks.
He’s really stretching for a “natural” explanation of women’s behavior, isn’t he?
Happiestsadist:
Oh, you too? I have those. Bits of my jawbone had to be shaved to get to the upper ones, which were impacted. He complained a fair amount about my ‘little jaws’. It hasn’t seemed to impact my uppityness, though.
Audley:
Yep. It’s his way of othering us. You see, if we aren’t “real” women, all is right with his world.
Happiestsadist:
I have a teeny jaw, too! Trust me, my orthodontist paid off his boat with the amount of money he made fixing my impacted teeth.
But… I bake. And I’m a stay at home mom. Must not really be a feminist after all.
…and Roosh slew them all with the jaw bone of a feminist.
Caine, Fleur du mal
OK. Got it. Apologies.
Janine:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Oh my.
Bizarre.
None of those women are ugly by conventional standards. One is very slightly on the heavy side. No super models of course. And this is judging by pictures picked by an enemy, and can therefore be assumed to be not looking their best.
Not that it would matter if he managed to find a few really ugly ones, but if his point is something along the lines of Feminism being the revenge of ugly women (a common conceit), then he picked some bad examples.
Yeah, but I’m sure Whoosh is a Nice Guy™.
– – whoops. forgot to add my /sarcasm tag again !
Um, no.
DLC:
Nope, he’s not the trademarked type of nice guy. Prides himself on not being one.
DLC, to clarify, the Nice Guy™ is the guy who is always whining about how women don’t really want a nice guy, they always go for the asshole. The Nice Guy™ is always so busy whining about that, he’s utterly clueless as to why he’s not attracting bevies of women to his side.
Just to be clear, I actually didn’t show up in comments – someone is just using my name. They haven’t said particularly egregious but it irks me that this asshole thinks I’d actually grace his comments section.
for some reason I’m reminded of Portal 2…only not laughing…and no Wheatly
Jessica:
Thank you for clarifying that. I thought it was odd you’d bother to comment there, now I know you didn’t.
Caine: For sure. So frustrating because going over there to clarify/comment that it isn’t me just gives MORE attention. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the original poster sock puppeting, honestly.
@116
Paradox!
Jessica Valenti, I am sorry that I pointed that out. Thank you for setting the record straight.
Also, do you actually read this blog?
Np Janine. And yes, been reading it forever! Love this blog.
Jessica:
Exactly. I’ve found it rarely (if ever) pays to venture into their playgrounds. For what it’s worth, you know you’re being effective when you find yourself in such a write up. Of course, if you’re going to pay attention to the idiot, it would seem it’s not our fault – something to do with testosterone and jaws… ;D
Jesus sodomizing colonel Mustard with a candlestick in the library?!!
These have got to be the most muck infested minds on the internet. I knew it was bad, such as in the dark recesses of Reddit where I never tread, but venturing into the world Roosh inhabits I found profoundly disturbing. I made the mistake of following one of the links which led to a comment thread full of anti-semetic misogynist crazy. Maybe these people could save us all some time and let us know what broad sweeping hostile generalizations about huge, arbitrary categories of people they don’t believe? Anybody they don’t hate?
Wait for it …
[crickets]
They’ve enclosed themselves into a nasty little toxic world of their own and they’re welcome to it. Yikes!
You have just made a lot of people happy.
Jessica:
Oh dear, another woman reader of Pharyngula. Let the handwringing commence.
*In case of confusion, there’s at least one member of the slymepit who went on, at length, over at Butterflies & Wheels, about the majority of readers here being men, thereby proving Shermer right in his assertion that atheoskepticism is a “guy thing”.
Caine
The link goes to a blog that makes fun of post-modernism, bad architecture, over-involved parenting, and emo-hipster culture. Roosh’s pic fits perfectly.
I was thinking a caption more along the lines of: “Roosh sighed as he ate another solitary meal. Would he ever meet the woman who would perfectly fit into the
glass slippergreen fringe skirt and make his life complete?”I agree that making sex doll jokes is not helping, at the very least. *eww*
the thought that keeps coming up in my mind when I am forced to think about people who are anti-feminists is don’t they have mothers?
Why do they seem to dislike women so much and by extension their own mothers. After all they got born didn’t they.
uncle frogy
Unclefrogy:
I would not be the least bit surprised if these ass-hats hated their own mothers.
Where does this “most Pharyngulites are men” thing come from?
I did a mental count, and most of the regulars that immediately came to mind were women…
For what that’s worth.
Hey, is that the real Jessica Valenti? :D :D :D
Her blog may or may not have been the first feminist thing I read regularly, way back when I was an ickle young thing (still read it too, FWIW).
Ms. Daisy Cutter, @ #75:
I do not at all intend to let Mr Roosh fly under any radar. I intend to characterize him as the childish adult he is. I intend to show his list as nothing more than being a very childish slam book, as the junior high kids I once was and once taught called it, something children become embarrassed by when they pass 15 years of age.
…
Ms Daisy, Mr Rooch lives in a nasty Never-Never Land where he does not have to put away childish things and grow-up. He is not excused by his preadolescent attitudes. He is an adult who should act like an adult; and as an adult, he is expected to do better than a 12 year old when criticizing real adults.
…
And thank you for your comment.
Esteleth, the latest outbreak of the “lack of women at FtB” goes back to a comment at Ophelia’s blog earlier today.
Esteleth:
A thread at Ophelia’s: http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2013/01/shermer-responds-again/
Apparently, a ‘pitter screencapped the thread (up to a point) and they’ve been going apeshit over it at the ‘pit. They seem to be under the impression that Alexa provides actual statistics.
I’m just gonna drop a test comment in here because I tried to comment elsewhere on FTB a moment ago and it didn’t work. Hey, how’s it goin’ y’all?
Aww, Chris, you’re obviously too sexy for this competition. Look at that fabulous beard!
OK, it’s sexier than Thunderfool’s beard, at least. *shudder*
Hey, Satan, good to see you again!
Caine : I know, he pretends to be a PUA … but he’s more a POS if you ask me.
yeah, you can easily tell that the alexa stats are worthless simply because it claims that the proportion of readers with graduate degrees is comparable to the rest of the internet.
How are any of these women ugly? Maybe Ms. Rosin isn’t a supermodel, but looking at them I don’t see anything even approaching the level of ugly, in either sex, you see all over the US every day.
And certainly nothing approaching the level of ugly inside this…person. Outer beauty is skin-deep, and fades with age: ugly is to the quick. Roosh is a kind of ugly that makes my metaphorical soul metaphorically throw up a little in its metaphorical mouth.
…and that people who went to college are underrepresented
Oh no women are feeling like they can live without the sole purpose of serving ME! I’d better make them feel bad by calling them ugly.
“[Update: we may have killed his server, which, you know. Dang. Here’s the Google cache.]”
PZ, I love how you shine the light of day on poisonous vermin such as this, they wither, and then die. Sadly, their progeny will survive, and they themselves may become zombies (BRAINZZZZ….) I know he’ll be back (it’s a server, not a living creature) and will be spewing his hatred again soon. I looked at the cache-I saw nothing but beautiful people. I especially loved Jen’s photo-but being a Purdue grad and a Hoosier myself I suppose I’ve always had a crush on her…
So-PZ, Vermin killer, YOU ROCK!
Caine, Fleur du mal:
“Hey, Satan, good to see you again!”
I beg you pardon…I have tattooed his image into my flesh itself! This…thing is no Satan, K?
Satan has style. I’d call him a troll-but that would denegrate trolls…
Poose:
You might want to pay attention to the byline on posts. Chris Clarke co-blogs here and this is his post.
Poose:
What are you talking about?
sadunlap:
“They’ve enclosed themselves into a nasty little toxic world of their own and they’re welcome to it. Yikes!”
The mammalian body can do that too. It’s called a cyst and is a last-ditch attempt at elimination of a parasitic infection-to sequester it. The only point where the analogy breaks down is that here they’ve sequestered themselves-in biology (as I understand it) it’s the host organism that does the dirty work. I suppose we’re the antibodies, and the parallel for PZ is he’s the T-cell killer leukocytes (ATTACK!)
Interesting, the parallels between the biological world and other paradigms like the ‘net, huh?
poose:
PZ did not write this post. Chris Clarke did.
Try reading sometime and comprehending what you read.
Caine, Fleur du mal +:
“Poose:
Satan has style. I’d call him a troll-but that would denegrate trolls…
What are you talking about?”
I was referring to “Roosh”, the subject of PZ’s rant. I had no idea you were talking about someone else, as I have the bad habit of “ready, fire, aim” and reading comments from the end first.
It was an attempt at humour. I actually do have a tattoo of Coop’s devil on my arm (a big one, it’s my left shoulder piece) and felt I needed to defend him from comparison to an obvious POS (again, “Roosh”).
As for trolls? I don’t see myself getting a troll tattoo in the future (outside maybe Detritus from Diskworld) and that yes, I understand what an internet troll is, and this is beneath even them. They merely invoke discord from the same attitude of a child hitting a wasp’s nest…
This person is just toxic (“Roosh”), and buggars description. I should have read more carefully. I’ve read your comments over the years I’ve been here, and admire you from the perspective of you seem a lot like PZ-take no prisoners.
I also understand now what I’ve always felt-that pharyngula’s blogs are an excellent training ground for on-line commentary-be on message, be accurate and above all-be ready for incoming…
I apologise if there was a misunderstanding.
Yes, I see that now. Again, I read backwards. Sorry Chris.
…and I do understand the op. I guess I’m just not sharp enough for here.
Signing off.
Poose, I was responding to great1american1satan @ 134 (the post directly above my greeting), who used to be a regular commenter here but hasn’t been around for a bit.
What’s the ugliest
Part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
(I think it’s your mind)
But I think it’s YOUR MIND
.
Guess Roosh doesn’t appreciate good music either.
I went to the site expecting mind-boggling offenses against every aesthetic standard, and wasn’t disappointed. I saw grotesqueries that the entire archive of rotten.com would find hard to match. Those were, of course, Roosh’s comments and those of his sycophants.
Gauging someone’s worth on how a small part of them prenatally developed is a very strange and counterproductive idea. Roosh doesn’t get this, but then again, he’s saddled with a putrescent puabrain.
Excuse me, jnorris, but I must object mightily to your characterization of Roosh as childish. It is not childlish to promote the view that women are like hostile aliens and sex is a means of humiliating them and dominating them. That is misogynist. Please do not lay this at the feet of children, truly they are innocent of misogyny–we are the ones who teach it to them.
Caine:
Oh, for FUCK’s sake. I fucking hate the “must be better than they are” bullshit. It’s a big reason left-of-center people never get anywhere in U.S. politics: We’re too concerned about being “morally pure,” even when there’s no splash damage to consider.
I laughed my ass off at Doosh’s picture. I’m not going to pretend that doing so carries anywhere near the same societal freight as making fun of a woman’s appearance — especially when what make his appearance mockable are pomposity and shitty facial hair, not anything he can’t control. Same thing with Thunderfuck’s picture.
Also: Power differentials? Wut r those? One of the worst decisions the Horde ever made was that saying “dick” is just as bad as saying “cunt.” Right, because male gendered slurs pack the same punch as female gendered slurs. So the fuck what if MRAs and dudebros whinge about it? We understand the power imbalance on other issues; why not this one?
To quote a friend of mine who saw the pic earlier tonight: “Waaaah! My older brother is in the Foo Fighters, so he’s up to his eyebrows in pussy, where I’m stuck writing angry hate mail to all women and jerking off in the basement!”
What a fucking asshole. And this article might be the nicest thing Voosh has written. For more on what this piece of shit is capable of read this. HEAVY RAPE TRIGGER WARNING, SPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END.
^ Pretend my third paragraph came before the second one and I left off the “Also:”. This is what I get for giving in to SIWOTI syndrome when I get up to pee.
Daisy:
The “decision” was that gendered insults and slurs are wrong and unnecessary, full stop. Your argument reminds me of those who defend the use of cunt because it’s used “differently” where they live.
You certainly don’t have to agree with me, and that’s fine. However, it feels pretty shit to me for being told off because I don’t care to indulge in hypocrisy. I’m not interested in living by a double standard, that’s just not for me. And yes, I know you don’t see it that way. If it makes things easier for you, just fucking ignore me. I get enough abuse from people, I don’t need it from you.
Oh, and this:
I don’t give a shit if they whine about it or anything else. I care about me, about my attitudes, my thought processes.
The splash damage would be me.
Pretty=good, ugly=bad reasoning is bad and usually something that hurts women much more than men.
I grant that there’s a difference between calling women ugly because you disagree with them and laughing at somebody who stylizes himself as something and failing miserably.
Like Roosh. Yeah, I think that his picture is funny in the context, because he tries to pull off the manly male mana la Aragorn King of Gondor and he fails. His arguments wouldn’t become any better if he succeeded at doing so.
Uhm, no. Saying that A, B and C are bad and to be avoided does not imply that they’re equally bad. Slapping, spanking and beating with a leather belt are bad and should not be done to children. That doesn’t mean that a slap on the hand is equal to a beating with a belt.
Caine, Fleur du mal +
16 January 2013 at 2:30 am (UTC -6)
Poose, I was responding to great1american1satan @ 134 (the post directly above my greeting), who used to be a regular commenter here but hasn’t been around for a bit.
Yeah, I get that now. Looking on, I even noticed that just after my post. I’m here at 6 am now because I’m going through a bit of strife and wanted a bit of friendly banter.
Fuck off and go to whatever personal Hel you like.
I’m going away. It is unlikely I’ll return.
Have we had the GOTCHA!!! bingo point yet? The one where where they drop a turd in the thread stating they were talking about INNER ugliness all along, and we’re all superficial and shallow and bad, hypocritical fauxminists?
No? Small mercies, small mercies.
Don’t take it personally, poose, the cool kids don’t let just anybody sit at their table…
Ms. Daisy:
Agree with you on this one.
Caine:
Is that why you make a habit of kicking the newbies in the teeth? Oh, but as long as they’re not gendered insults, it’s totes ok!
Poose, Caine wasn’t getting at you – that was an explanation, not an attack. As far as I can see, no offence was either taken or intended.
I’m sorry you’re going through some bad stuff at the moment, and having to be up at dawn and not getting enough rest. I think you saw an attack where there wasn’t one; I hope you get through the strife and get a chance for some R&R, and I also hope you might reconsider.
What the Actual Fuck?
… no, seriously. I’m beginning to think there’s a light wavelength only visible to a certain kind of person and MRAs, and comments here come with a special That-Wavelength Insult-O-Matic and Logic-Removal Processor(R)(TM) that we’re all entirely unaware of.
I’m sorry, but:
Caine, Fleur du mal
Caine, Fleur du mal +
Do I need to look in the archives, or is this just wrong?
Are you the same person, or not?
If you are not, are you related to them?
Did you know them?
Answer, please.
Two more posts. Learn how to stick a flounce.
Do your own homework, or shut up.
Caine:
LOL. Again, power differentials. They’re a thing, you know? If there were no power differential, neither “dick” nor “cunt” would be considered any more freighted than “asshole.”
(Though of course there are some people who complain that “asshole” is “body-shaming,” which makes me wonder if next they’re going to complain about “shit” as a pejorative because defecation is a crucial bodily process.)
Oh, fuck you. I didn’t “abuse” you. I disagreed with you, vociferously. And I was a lot more respectful toward you than you are toward most people.
Use what words you want and eschew what words you don’t. I have a low regard for politics as a self-improvement seminar. I don’t have a problem with checking my own privileges, but I do have a problem with acting as though words aimed at people on the top of the social scale are just as important, which is a close cousin to tone policing. Dudes who whine about the epithets “dick” et al. aren’t my allies.
Giliell:
That’s reasonable. However, like I said, what makes Doosh mockable are things entirely under his control. I am not in the habit of mocking anybody for their facial features, weight, height, or coloring.
Slapping:beating does not :: dick:cunt. Not even close, for reasons elaborated in my response to Caine.
Weeeellll … certainly looks like I was wrong, big time. Poose, I thought you were having a meltdown due to bad stuff in RL and lack of sleep leading to a big misunderstanding (i.e. if I understood correctly Caine was annoyed with somebody else, nothing to do with you at all). But this “big, ugly and scary in real life” shit? You can take that crap with you when you leave.
Sophia, Michelin-starred General of the First Mediterranean Iron Chef Batallion
16 January 2013 at 6:43 am (UTC -6)
What the Actual Fuck?
… no, seriously. I’m beginning to think there’s a light wavelength only visible to a certain kind of person and MRAs, and comments here come with a special That-Wavelength Insult-O-Matic and Logic-Removal Processor(R)(TM) that we’re all entirely unaware of.
Sophia:
What, for starters is an MRA? I’m an old man, damned near a half-century old. I’ve been around the internet since, well before it existed. I grew up with it-and could tell you tales…
That I don’t follow all the current trends and understand all of the “latest” things in current technology has absolutely nothing to deal with what’s going on here, now, and I must apologise to Chris that I have somewhat hijacked his thread.
What I’m talking about here, now is identity, of being real. Something that is (I fear) missing in real life now, of having, for example an identity, and of banging something out on a keyboard after logging in as (me) and signing off as an identity.
I have no idea what you use to read this. I also have no idea what filters may be applied, of what software you may use, of what twitter feed is your favourite, what Facebook skin you use-none of this matters to me.
What matters is to me, poor old luddite me-is ideas, thought and identity. That I can argue with madman, have a discussion, ask him “sorry, need to go, same time next Tuesday?” and if nothing else get a grunt of agreement and know I can find the same village idiot in the town square next Tuesday. I know him, he knows me, probably by sight (and smell).
But this is the internet, and the rules are a bit different.
For example, that a space is considered as (whitespace) by most programs?
…That the plus symbol (+) is largely ignored by both login programs and people (Hel, I ignored it initially…)
That the system here (FTB.com) would gleefully ignore the subtle differences because it can’t? It’s called a Turing Test, and most simple systems fail because there isn’t enough computer horsepower in the world that makes the Matrix movies seem laughable in my eyes?
That this person engaged me, and I THOUGHT I was dealing with someone I revered and respected, and was caught short by a +? Something, depending on your feed, that you might have missed?
Notice he (again, she, it?) hasn’t showed up since? Correct me if I’m wrong and if the original Cain, flower of Ill is still alive, gimmie a ring, K? miss you.
My initial premise on the original topic remains unchanged. I think we can all agree what an ass Roosh is-and that feministas rock!
Jen, should you be reading this and need to return to Lafayette (west or east)-you have a place to stay, meals provided and a sensitive ear. Please, tell me if I’m gushing too much…
Dudes, I don’t live here, and yes, my life IS in turmoil now. So go ahead and demonise me-rip me to shreds-I thought I could express myself here, now, without fear.
I was wrong.
Bye.
Silly list. Some comments aren’t silly, however. They are just shocking:
RASER
They are *not* women, some sort of misfit faulty vermin
Gabriele
Ahahahaha they’re The ugliest Women I’ve ever seen in my life, so i can understand why they hate menXD
Nuance News
I also think the tax payer should pay for the birth control of all these women, in fact I think hysterectomies & lobotomies are in line for all of them as well, that’s tax payer money well spent for a change. Less feminazis running around trying to legally suppress people that get shit done
Dark Wolf
These womyn are not just unpleasant to look at but their characters and ideology make them twice as ugly.
bieber
have you considered that the reason top feminists are so ugly is because they are mostly jewish?
laf
“Hannah Rosin is by far the ugliest feminist on there. Also, she’s had a nose job.”
You can change your nose, you can change your name, but you’re all still Luciferian Khazars. Looks like these ladies will need some Challah and Matzoh Ball Soup for lunch.
Answer from RASER:
Maybe Auschwitz….lol
Andy
Well done roosh, you are quite correct to point out the awfulness of the snorting megafauna seen above. Don’t worry about the criticisms above, the lesser men like mangina PZ Myers have got their halfwit followers to jump up and down about this. Considering their weight that’s quite dangerous. Ugly women are awful and useless, like a dong that cannot bark.
I guess it’s true, strong women scare weak men.
LOL.
I’m sorry, that misspelling got me. xD
Poose, stick the flounce this time or I’ll stick it for you.
The comments on that article make me wish for all-encompassing nuclear annihilation.
And why on Earth does poose read offence into every comment possible, when it is abundantly clear that almost none of them are about him?
Even the ones that are addressed to him are not offensive enough to justify this type of victim-complex: sure, Caine could have been a lot less dismissive and holier-than-thou in the brief couple of corrections that were posted, but that is hardly a personal slight upon poose.
Try not to read offence into this: it is an honest question. Stop assuming that everyone is out to get you. Why would they be? I agree with whoever said that you should take some relaxing time away from the screen, especially if you are reading attacks where there are none, and often where you are not even the one being addressed.
Ms. Daisy
Well, apparently I disagree.
Yes, there’s power differentials. Dick doens’t have the same effect as cunt, it even has some dare-devil admirable connotations. That makes it even worse.
I want a world in which behaviour, good or bad isn’t tied to genitals. In that world there’s certainly no place for “cunt”, but there’s also none for “dick”.
I don’t want to get rid of harmful stereotypes, I want to get rid of stereotypes.
And yes, painting his manly man beard with mum’s mascara is something totally in his control and frankly ridiculous. But it wouldn’t change things in any way if he managed to grow a manly man beard by pushing hard enough.
His looks have zilch bearing on the argument, or that he’s a horrible person. Going after them only means that “it’s ok if I’m doing it”.
Roosh has decided to insult some women by saying they don’t meet his superficial, arbitrary standards of beauty. He follows the socially prevalent view that one of the most important attributes for women is physical beauty and women who aren’t “beautiful” are to be scorned.
I believe his objection to the women he lists is not their failure to be “beautiful” but rather they hold social and political views he doesn’t like. Since he can’t articulate his complaints about these women, he insults them instead. Roosh is an immature man unwilling to admit that women are more than receptacles for his semen.
Poose, yes, I’m Caine, Fleur du mal. I’m not sure what I have done to you, all I did was explain my greeting to another commenter – I explained because you seemed confused about it. I apologize for getting you so very upset.
Crocodoc #172
I see you made the same mistake as I did reading some of the comments on his website.
Very sobering to see the extreme levels of misogyny there.
A little part of me feels sorry for Roosh in that all he sees woman as are objects to lay. I don’t think he realises how much he is missing out on.
Of course the rest of me is just nauseated by his views
Caine- I don’t remember when I’ve ever commented regularly – probably it was in pretty short random intervals. I have a dim recollection of you or another regular cussing me out pretty brutally once, which was probably at least half deserved, haha.
If my showing up causes this much totally unrelated turmoil though, maybe I should stick to lurkin’ …
I don’t think it was me, I’ve always enjoyed your posts – so don’t go back to lurking!
That’s sweet. Thank you, Flower of Evil!
Sincerely, Satan.