I’ve heard every one of the things said in this video, and every time I feel an urge to rampage and riot and behead people. Oh, wait, no, that’s not right — I’ve felt an urge to laugh, mock, sneer, or argue. Sorry, I just mistook cultural norms for my own for a moment there.
Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
As an atheist I feel the urge to eat babies.
I mean, normally. Not just when christians say crazy things.
Hate God? Hate a nonexistent being? How silly. I just hate the inanities I hear from theists.
I saw that one before. My brother actually gave me the line “you’ll think differently when you have children” once.
And yet, Christians remain utterly clueless to why many atheists develop extreme antipathy towards them.
Aw yea, heard every one of them too, and the part I love is when they feel smart and clever when they say their weak lines.
My favorite is “Well, what do you believe in?” Faitheists just cannot comprehend lack of belief. But the film did leave out one I hear more and more often: “You must be one of them evilutionists.”
Yeah, I’ve been asked every single one of those questiond and I have always been able to tell that on some level the questioner knew that he or she was just regurgitating dogma.
She forgot: “You don’t really believe that.”
That’s the one I get most often. I usually smile at them (my mother in law said it was the sign of heads about to roll), and ask, “So what do you believe?”
And they tell me christardery of some sort, and I give them the laser-eyes death glare to respond with, “Oh, you don’t really believe that.” Wait for it to sink in. Or for the christslime to quit sputtering with rage. “Yeah, that’s how it felt to hear you say that to me. Maybe you’ll have better manners the next time you meet an atheist.”
Of those the two that really annoy me the most are “I’ll pray for you” and the insistence that I’m incapable of making a moral decision.
I’ve had people tell me that even if I make all the same choices in life as a they do, mine are not moral because I didn’t make them out of fear of eternal punishment.
I usually respond with “You read that pamphlet too, huh?”
Here’s a link to an article that argues that we as atheists are incapable of love. “Are Atheists Capable of Love? Again No.”. Can’t you just feel the xtian love for all that rolls off that title?
As to the vid, I’ve heard most of them, but thankfully it’s been awhile as most of my friends are grad students who are too overworked to give a shit.
I don’t actually mind the “I’ll pray for you” comment. I know it can be irksome, but my response is to encourage them. “Oh, yes. Please do. I’m sure your faith is strong enough to perform miracles. Pray a lot!” Then my lack of conversion becomes a continuing rebuke and an implied criticism of their lack of sufficient faith to move a single unbelieving individual (let alone moving any mountains!). Pray, pray, pray, believers! It’ll keep you occupied and out of my hair.
I actually counted, and of the 18 statements in that video, my dad alone has used 12 of them, or variations of them. The other 6 have all come from people who don’t know me personally.
Although there’s one particularly unique one that I can add to the list, where a particularly indignant woman said, “You’re just a filthy Jew!” (I have no Jewish heritage in my family)
Oh yes. I have heard every single one of these.
The most frequent being ‘How can you be a moral person.’
Only heard the ‘So you worship the devil, right?’ thing once. Blew my mind.
KJ
@Rawnaeris:
Christwire is a satire site…
“Atheism is a religion.”
“Evolution is a religion.”
Don’t know if those are “said” much, but they certainly get written a whole lot. As profound as saying heliocentrism (of the solar system, now) is a religion.
Then there’s “You’ll change your mind after you’re dead,” junk, because, of course, they’re right sans evidence. The righteous must believe without evidence.
Glen Davidson
That article is awesome. It’s like hearing a fifth-grader talk about sex. A fifth-grader who’s allowed to vote on big person issues.
That’s absolutely brilliant, Zeno.
“Hmm, I still don’t believe in god. You sure you’re doing it right? Maybe try praying to someone else; see if that helps.”
I think having a miserable sinner pray for me won’t get me any points with God.
And if you don’t, it’ll be too fucking late.
Goddamn Poe’s Law! Ok. My excuse is that I haven’t had my caffeine yet today.
*blushes*
A conservative Christian godbot I used to work with once spat “Evolution is a religion!” at me with as much rage as I’ve ever heard anyone say anything. She was kind of frightening. Sometimes we’d converse about banal whatevers, and all I could focus on was how she moved her head as if her neck muscles were all atrophied, like George Clooney’s character on ER back in the day. It was like watching the angriest balloon-on-a-stick ever.
Sometimes I thought about talking politics with her, but I knew any such conversation would have ended with me frantically trying to find an oaken stake before she fully morphed into the demon underneath awakened by the anger.
Damn, now I want a godbot to show up and huff off about praying for us so we can use Zeno’s comeback.
“Toodles! Be sure to check back on our atheist status frequently so you can see how effective prayer is!”
My response to hearing those comments from christards: If God really existed, wouldn’t you be a better person? The silence that follows is delicious.
“There has to be a script somewhere.”
Um, I’m pretty sure that almost every aspect of religion is according to a “script.” Usually they add in the obscure “-ture” suffix though.
Oh-Your-God! The very first one is the one I’ve heard most often. “You’re an Atheist? But you’re so nice?” This is proof of a script, or at least a meme. So, how do we kill a meme?
If their god existed, they wouldn’t have to lie and hate so much.
If their god existed, their leaders would long ago have vaporized in a lightning bolt from a clear blue sky.
Wow that really pissed me off. I don’t understand how an adult human being could possibly read that and think it had any level of legitimacy at all.
I think I would be insulted by that trite scrawl even if I was a god-botherer myself.
Blanche Beecham (hardly sounds like a real name) is either exceedingly clueless and sort of 50s pious, or a Poe trolling with an obvious eye toward the salacious.
Here she is on static electricity:
http://christwire.org/2011/07/atheists%E2%80%99-science-iq-loses-spark-bible-explains-static-electricity/
I think Poe is definitely the safer judgment.
Glen Davidson
Wikipedia on Christwire: “Christwire is a satirical website that publishes blog style articles that highlight excesses of American Christian conservatives along with derogatory slang, homophobic references, and hints at child abuse.”
Glen Davidson
I got one that’s not here…: “If you’d believe in God, then all things bad things in your life will go away.” Really? How?
Kitty:
And it’s always “when you have children.” Not “if you’ll have children.”
Stanton:
That’s the nature of privilege.
My response would be “what do you do that is good that you think I DON’T do now?”
As for “you’ll change your mind when you have kids”, why yes, yes I did. I was a Christian, then I had kids, now I’m an atheist.
Thanks, Glen. They fooled me Jerry!
I like to think I would have got the joke if I’d read this article: Is Skyrim Teaching Your Children How to Perform “Rim Jobs” and Other Homo Erotic Sex Maneuvers?
@Brownian
The problem is that that is so fucking close to the Perkins splooge job on KOTOR
Got to second Brownian and say “fucking excellent Zeno”.
Next time I get the “I’ll pray for you John” from the born again colleague who gives me a lift home each evening I’ll reply, as sincerely as possible, “Thanks Lizzie, please pray for me every night. Pray hard every night for a fortnight. Let’s see if you and your god can save me…”. Oh, how I’ll look forward to the assessment at the end of the experiment.
Of course I won’t really.. who wants to take the tube when a lift is available?
Well, they say funny and total fucking nutjob asshole are two sides of the same coin.
Wait, that’s genius and…fuck, I forget. Species?
What? He won’t give you a lift out of Christian kindness without demanding you get proselytised to?
Scofield and Froborr need to spend some time in the same room together so they can get their stories straight on how it’s only evil when atheists do it.
I’ve heard many of the lines in the video, and a lot of lines not in the video. Such as:
“You’re an atheist? …
… you must think you’re so much smarter than everyone else.”
…I probably don’t believe in the type of God you don’t believe in either. God can be so much more!”
… but you’re an artist!”
… that’s probably because you only look at things on the intellectual level.”
… you must have been hurt very deeply at some point.”
… then how do you explain where we came from?”
… then how can you explain love?”
… hahahah — sorry, I don’t believe in atheists!”
….ahhhh — but God believes in YOU.”
… it’s a matter of opening your heart. You’ll do it when you’re ready.”
And the most common one:
“You’re an atheist? Oh. I feel sorry for you.”
I think I could get away with not wanting the proselytising, but actually challenging her beliefs might be a deal breaker. That Christian kindness is kinda conditional.. go figure.
I always wonder about the comebacks: “Atheism is a religion!” or “Evolution is a religion!”
Wait, wait Aren’t you on the side that religion is good?
Same goes for “creation science”. If science is evil, then why are you cloaking your beautiful faith in it?
So, deep down, our hypothetical fundamentalist doesn’t really believe that religion is real. Deep down s/he knows that science is the most effective way we have to analyze reality. I hope I can get the tone just right for a really patronizing, “You don’t really believe that.”
Thanks, PZ. Made me laugh. I went to a Southern Baptist college in East Tennessee, sometimes known as Jesus Tech, so I’ve pretty much heard all this crap in one form or another. Generally, I tell believers I don’t want to talk about religion with them. It’s a stupid, pointless conversation…I’m not “coming back to Christ” and they aren’t going to wake up from their self-imposed delusions. The most difficult thing for people to get is that believing in belief is not to be trusted.
scottplumer: That’s my favorite response to godbots, I take a different tact with priests/rabbis, etc.
Great line, Athena: “My response to hearing those comments from christards: If God really existed, wouldn’t you be a better person?”
Beats my retort to “What *do* you believe?”
“Nothing without evidence.”
robro #41 wrote:
I suspect the easiest way to get believers to back off from proselytizing is to meet their first approach with a delirious expression of joy and an enthusiastic “What, you want to discuss religion with me? Really? You want to hear my side? Why God-belief is irrational? Oh my. Yes. Yes indeed. Why, I’d LOVE to! Love to! When? Let me know: I’m ready! So, so … ready.”
I think they’re more comfortable with us being a bit less comfortable.
The “So you worship Satan then?” ones remind me of back on the good old days of junior high, when that was always the precursor to getting seven shades of shit being beaten out of me. And then getting equal punishment as the people who did the beating.
I have heard the “when you have kids, you’ll change your mind!” one, though it’s tended to go a lot more entertainingly since I got my tubes tied.
I mostly just like pointing out, preferably in company, what the theist who asks me why I don’t rape and murder if I’m lacking a holy security cam overhead is implying about themselves.
I’ve got two responses, depending on whether I’m talking to someone smarter than food or not.
If they’re smarter than food, I ask them if they, honestly, tell their children/loved ones that they’re only kissing them goodnight out of fear of a vengeful god, and that without that fear, they’d rape and murder them in their sleep.
If they’re not (so many people are not), I ask them why they’re so invested in convincing me I have no good reason not to rob and kill them. Then I ask them for their wallet, with the most menacing smile I can muster.
I handle the whole “how can you be moral without religion” thing by the old saw of turning it around.
“So the only reason you don’t kill and steal is that you’re afraid of going to hell? Dude, you’re scaring me.”
Brownian: I usually just reply to the effect of “Remind me never to let you watch my pets. Or houseplants. I mean, if the only thing that stops you is fear of being caught.”
Suit yourself. I like to throw the fear of no-god into them.
If I’m in a good mood, when such a person suggests that I am without morals with no fear of God, I point out (as many of you have already) that the implication is that they would do their worst without God’s security camera trained on them. But then I add that I don’t believe that, that I think they are better people than that (which is true for most of them). If they’re a quick study they’ll realize that either they agree with me that fear of God isn’t necessary for civil behavior, or that yes, they truly are utterly depraved and would rape and kill their own kids if they weren’t afraid of their Magic King. I try to maintain the blandest and most pleasant expression possible while they work it out.
Zeno’s response to “I’ll pray for you” is brilliant, but it’s a slow lesson, and only works for folks you know – siblings, co-workers and the like. For people I likely won’t see again I’ll response with a polite “Thank you; that’s very thoughtful. And I’ll be sure to reason for you.”
Truth be told, however, these people are very good at thought stoppage and other ways of avoiding unpleasant questions. They typically just look angry and walk off, probably never to be troubled by these thoughts again. “We have always been at war with East Asia.”
I’ve asked people here that when it comes up. Near as I can tell it’s an attempt to reveal a hypocrisy.
I did get called “militant” for the first time (offline). I felt like I should have had a bingo card to fill out or something. It kinda softens the blow when you’re almost happy to have heard it in a Pokemon-style “gotta catch ’em all” sort of way.
Likewise.
So I should give the wallets back?
I like to ask people about their faith until they slip and tell a lie that even they recognize is a lie. Like “more and more scientists believe in God”.
Then I say “That’s not true and I can see on you face that you know it. It’s not necessary to lie to support the truth. So you don’t really believe, do you?”
True account of a conversation with a JW who then fled from my door.
Re the Christwire article (link @Rawnaeris #11)–
It’s long and the humor’s uneven, but there’s a gem buried in the middle:
:)
Yup. heard every one of those many times before.
I do not hate god. God doesn’t exist. What I do hate are men like Pat Robertson, or Joseph Ratzinger*, who rob the poor to keep themselves in a life of luxury.
*I dislike using his Alias.
“But, you’re so nice!” is the one I get most often. I hadn’t heard that one mentioned in any of the other versions of this I’ve seen. Thanks Ashley!
I like saying “Boo!”
My favorite that she missed is, “But doesn’t it bother you to think that you’ll just die and be worm food?”
Ashley makes the finest YouTube videos. This is one of her best. She posts her videos as Healthy Addict. Check it out. She’s clever as hell.
Man, I knew she was just doing a schtick, but I still felt like yelling, ‘BUY A CLUE!!!’
There’s some awesome comeback lines spackled through the thread, maybe we should turn this into a contest to combat the ‘shit’ xtians are saying and submit comebacks for each line from the vid and then vote on them for a compilation of best comebacks. If we were mentally prepared for every one of their ‘oh-boy, gotcha!’ lines, man, maybe heads would start exploding…or thinking.
Heard most of ’em. Although I DO believe in Jesus. At least in the sense that I think that it is more likely that there was a man with that name causing foment in Jeruselem and its surroundings than that his existance was completely made up by a huge after the fact conspiracy. But these days when we read a newspaper account of somebody waking up in the morgue our assumption is “somebody screwed up, he wasn’t really dead” not “this is a miracle.” So when this happened more than a thousand years before the invention of the stethescope, why is it that this is regarded as a miracle?
And yes, obedience to authority, even the all-powerful skyfather isn’t much of a basis for morality.
A woman at work told me that she wanted me to try praying, to get down on my knees and pray and see what happened. I told her I wasn’t going to waste my time doing something that I knew was useless, because I don’t believe. They just don’t get it. Last year I had to stop talking to her altogether when she told me that she thinks that everything Glenn Beck says is the truth. o_O
I agree with you that there probably was such a person as Jesus, but there’s really no reason to believe that he revived after being crucified. None of the gospels date from less than 20 years after the likely date of Jesus’s death – plenty of time for dreams, hallucinations or misidentifications of Jesus to become the basis for stories of bodily resurrection. Dreams and hallucinations of the recently dead are common among those who knew them well. If you read the gospel accounts carefully, tell-tale indications are there: in two cases (the appearance to Mary Magdalene in John 20, and the appearance on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24) those “seeing Jesus” do not recognise him – in the latter case, the identification is not made until after he has disappeared! In all the gospels, Mary Magdalen, out of whom Jesus had supposedly cast devils (i.e., she had suffered from some psychiatric disorder) has a prominent part in his first reappearances. The earliest text mentioning the resurrection is actually in 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul makes no distinction except of timing between the appearances of Jesus immediately after his death, and the appearance to him on the road to Damascus – which is clearly a vision (i.e. hallucination), as those with him do not see Jesus. Finally, the bodies of crucified criminals were not buried, but thrown on a rubbish heap, unless claimed by a close relative. Joseph of Arimathea, who supposedly begged Jesus’s body from Pilate, appears nowhere else; he looks very like a bit of retconning.
David Fitzgerald on Jesus
link to youtube video
Got the “I’ll pray for you” just yesterday. Debate over whether the Bible contradicted itself or not. The response to my pointing out that their “source” was simply one guy claiming over and over, “No contradictions!” wasn’t really a response led to “I’ll pray for you…”
Other than, “you do that, let me know how it turns out,” what do you say? It was a rather cowardly duck-out when the debate went along a path they didn’t care for.
Could add something like, “Bless your heart,” which is Southern for fuck you. Chances are they’re fluent.
They could, in a way, by redefining “bad”. Or, in other words, you know, denial.