I was shocked to see that the Virginia attorney general has filed papers against the climate researcher, Michael Mann. Mann had worked at the University of Virginia for 5 or 6 years, doing climate studies that cost the state about a half million dollars over that time. (To put that in perspective, that’s a middling sized grant; big biomedical researchers can get much more than that.) Cuccinelli is claiming that Mann committed fraud, and wants to demand all that money back.
There are no grounds to consider Mann to have committed any breach of ethics. The sole foundation for his legal attack is the hacked email messages from the CRU, which contained no nefarious revelations…other than that some scientists are really pissed off at clueless denialists like Cuccinelli. Most annoyingly, Mann was already subjected to an ethics review, again driven by people complaining about the CRU emails, and was completely absolved of any wrongdoing.
This is a witch hunt, nothing more. Cuccinelli is not pursuing a scientist because he did wrong, he is pursuing a scientist because he did not like the results he honestly got. He is using the law to take a political cheap shot with no basis in substance. That can only have a chilling effect, if carried out: apparently, the only results you are allowed to get at the University of Virginia are those that fit the preconceptions of conservative ideology. If anyone has acted unethically in this matter, it’s Virginia’s Attorney General.
I wonder what this action will end up costing taxpayers.
I’m sick and tired of Darwinists going after any scientist who refuses to toe the line of the scientific establishment!
Oh, wait….
Not only will the suit cost the taxpayers more than they might ever recover, even if all the grant money is returned, but the truly tasteless irony is that the matter will be heard before a jury “…of his peers.”
This does not mean people with any sort of scientific education or awareness (much less understanding), but average rate-paying Virginians – the sort of people who thought it would be a good thing to have someone like Cuccinelli in the Attorney General’s office.
So, in terms of pulling a judgment out of this shameful hunk of frozen shit on a stick, I’d say the odds are not with Mann here. Expect the trial to be forced into recess so the jury can attend local teabagging rituals; deliberations will begin with a prayer to Jesus to kill all the fags…after which, the people will take their country back.
Well, climate scientists have had an unfortunate habit of acquainting us with unpleasant relaities many of us would rather not look at. James Inhofe has a list of a dozen climate scientists that he has initiated investigations on, and the Competitive Enterprise Institute has filed FOI requests for private email requests for all climate scientists who work for government organizations.
You know, in the past I had some sympathy with the fiscally conservative but socially moderate Republican politicians who might try to impose fiscal restraint. Now this breed is extinct, and even if one existed, I could never cast my vote for a party that is at war with physical reality.
This will not end until these people are defeated so thoroughly that they become objects of ridicule or until they succeed in criminalizing science.
I guess we’re talking about the bible bogey here, (amongst other things). And the feckin’ bible bogey ain’t gonna harm good god-fearin’ folk like Cuccinelli, will he, eh? So the climate science must be based upon lies, & the funding obtained by fraud, eh.
Cuccinelli and climate change denialists like him are utterly incapable of recognising the political neutrality of scientific research. He actually thinks that he is better qualified to judge the truth of things like anthropogenic climate change than specialist scientists who have dedicated a lifetime of research to the field, and so he sees any research or data that runs counter to his preconceptions as necessarily politicaly motivated.
He is paranoid enough to believe that the entire scientific community is engaged in some kind of conspiracy to undermine the prosperity of Virginia as a state and the broader United States. Because all scientists are commies, or something.
The problem with democracy is that it sometimes results in the most convincing snake oil salesman who is best able to play on the electorate’s fears and preconceptions getting elected. This is how denialist morons like Cuccinelli get the power base to push spurious suits like this one. The message is clear; make sure you get the ‘right’ results, whether or not they are the actual results, or else. It is government as mafia, making scientists like Mann an offer they cannot refuse.
Every day I wake up and fear what McCooch is going to do to my state to drag us back 150 years. This is exactly the kind of crap (along with all the other crap they’ve done so far) that Palin and her minions would do if ever given power. I’m seriously afraid for Virginia.
The biggest losers here will be the taxpayers. They pay for the cost of the witch hunt, then they pay if a judgment is secured as UV was the recipient of the grants. Doesn’t make any logical sense, except to gain political points with the AGW deniers. Harassment is the only word to describe it.
After all this frivilous bullsh!t blows over (it shouldn’t even get very far), Michael Mann ought to up and leave for another state– one that actually SUPPORTS science. Let these sorry bastards have the intellectual wasteland they so desire. Other scientists should leave too. F*ck ’em.
Can somebody explain what that amount of money is used for?
Is it just his salary? Or does the researcher need to pay assistents, equipment, rent for workplaces?
If it is just his salary, then I see nothing wrong with this amount. If there are more costs involved then I think you can hardly talk about fraud.
That’s the same idiot who insisted to zip up the lady on the state’s seal, correct?
I’m sure Virginians of whatever political persuasion already decided yesterday that this man has no credibility left.
Cuccinelli is going full Ashcroft. He’s unhappy about the Virginia state seal, ’cause it’s got a clothing malfunction.
Gregory Greenwood,
This is not an accident. Energy concerns like Exxon and the coal companies have pumped millions into conservative thinktanks to pump up denialist charlatans and make it appear there is still scientific doubt. Faux News and rags like the Wall Street Urinal do their best to fan the flames.
One of the biggest funders of the denial machine–Massey “but hey, what’s 30 or so dead coal miners” Energy. These guys would make Geobbels blush.
Note: Mann has already left Virginia. He works at U Penn now. So this is Cuccinelli reaching out with his claws to get at someone who isn’t even working in his state anymore.
This is becoming absolutely ridiculous. Virginia is facing a major budget shortfall for this upcoming fiscal year with no foreseeable way to close the gap. And then Kookynutty goes and wastes millions of dollars on ridiculous, frivolous lawsuits? He’s making my state into an absolute laughing stock. The state seal debacle is so Victorian, as was the anti-gay rights protection at the state universities. I don’t even know what to call this, other than a blatant attack on science and on common sense. I’m disgusted, absolutely disgusted. I can’t believe anyone can have their head so far up their own ass and still breathe.
a_ray_in_dilbert_space @ 13;
So Cuccinelli is the bought-and-paid-for property of big oil and Faux News? Say it ain’t so!
This is surely unprecedented in the history of US politics! Err…well unless you count both former Presidents Bush. And Reagan. And the entire Republican Party. ;-)
On a more serious note, I am constantly horrified that Exxon Mobil and other big energy concerns have been able to maintain the illusion of doubt over climate change in the public mind by nothing more than the expenditure of vast quanities of money and the support of the right wing elements of the media. Truth really is being bought and sold like any other commodity.
By the way, would you mind if I were to shamelessly steal ‘Wall Street Urinal’?
The point of a witch hunt is intimidation. There doesn’t need to be a prosecution or even any result of an investigation to be effective.
@’hermetically sealed’: Michael Mann already left UVA for Penn State in 2005. Cuccinelli is truly on a fishing expedition.
Ken the Cooch is just doing the Tea Party Dance, after having stepped out of the Religious Right dance.
He’s filed suit to prevent the health care bill to pass, and after criticism it’s a frivolous suit that will cost Virginians a lot of money they can use elsewhere he said it’d only cost the $350 filing fee. The time his office works on it can not possibly cost anything. Or could be spent on something else.
Then there’s the anti-anti-discrimination legislation he sent to Universities after his Governor repealed earlier anti-discrimination laws.
And of course he’s now sending out mailings asking for money to help him pay for the health care bill suit…
Switching back and fore between the two extreme bases of the Republican Party – Religious Right and Tea Party – he’s appealing to each bases core political driving force, ensuring donations and re-election.
The McDonnell Cuccinelli Partnership is made in GOP heaven, we can only hope they continue to overplay their hands like these antics and the good people of Virginia will vote someone else in.
I missed an opportunity there to name the dances…
Tea Party Tango and the Religious Right Rumba
accursed blockquote!
Gregory Greenwood,
The Wall Street Urinal is a public company–anyone is free to use it. Meanwhile, I’m so stealing JerryM’s “Ken the Cooch”
What makes the current crop of anti-reality zealots different is that they now feel strong enough to go after prominent scientists merely for doing their job. That didn’t happen even with the AIDS or stem cell debates. There is LOTS of money here–more than the think tanks know how to spend effectively.
Virginia resident here. Yeah, Cuccinelli is insane, but I rather like the longterm implications of his image (and Palin, and Bush, etc.) becoming the epitome of Republican in this state. We’re quickly gaining liberals thanks to the growing DC area, and we were even able to win our electoral college votes for Obama!
Maybe an irony: the main reason he and McDonnell got into power was because the opponents spat out nothing but negative ads and had nothing to say for their own campaigns. “They’re global warming deniers! They’re against women’s rights! They’re against gay rights!” Well, yes, they were right, but they still didn’t say how they’d be any different. It’s a lesson in campaigning more than anything else: to win, you have to actually stand for something, not against.
Wouldn’t worry about it in the long run, though; the more crazy things the Republicans do now, the less serious of a threat they’ll be later.
keay.sensei,
Careful what you wish for. I am old enough to remember Democrats salivating about the prospect of running against Ronald Reagan, and against Dubya. If American politics shows anything, it is the strength of the idiot vote. The country works best when we have a minimum of two parties strong enough to keep each other from being too dishonest and stupid.
There are a lot of really pissed off stupid folks out there, and they are willing to vote for a candidate just because he will piss the rest of us off. Ultimately, they hate us more than the love the country.
This could backfire spectacularly for the AGW deniers.
Consider-The court considers the evidence for Fraud, concludes there is no Fraud but the evidence put forward by Dr. Mann supports the case for AGW. It follows then that AGW has been “proven beyond reasonable doubt”. The Denier’s case has been shown to be false in the one place they cannot argue about. I would expect the case to go to appeal, whichever side won,where the result will rely on Judges and not the Jury.
Andrew
There are pro tobacco lobbyists sitting around wondering where the hell they went wrong.
Enjoy.
As an Italian Catholic among a sea of Anglo-Saxon Protestants, Cuccinelli has to work extra hard to win the favor of people who probably call him a “mackerel snapper” when he’s not around to hear it. Hence his trying to out-TP the TPers. (Though I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that Massey and Exxon Mobil have been throwing big bucks his way.)
Oh, and by the way, the tea partiers have for all intents and purposes been reassimilated back into the Republican Party; Tea Party candidates must back the RNC platform to get funding.
a_ray_in_dilbert_space:
QFT. Underestimating the number of hysterical whackjobs in the wingnutosphere is a mistake we can’t afford to keep repeating. I was astounded when some Democrats began jabbering about a “permanent Democratic majority” after Obama’s election. Cynical and/or insane thugs like Cuccinelli are far too common, and it’s the work of a lifetime to try to keep them as far away as possible from the levers of power.
Mann’s been at Penn State since ’05. Note:
U Penn = Ivy League = Philadelphia
Penn State = Public, Land grant = State College
Couldn’t Mann turn around and sue for libel? His name and reputation are being tarnished. Might cost the taxpayers a huge amount.
Didn’t this kind of stuff happen a couple hundred years ago to some guy named Galileo? I seem to recall he published something that conflicted with the beliefs of the local government at the time.
Good to know VA still honors the old traditions.
re: https://me.yahoo.com/a/7bP64dsCsNde3x.4t5pshK_WF4p8#86291 Author Profile Page:
Your statement that any trial might prove the anthropogenic case “beyond a reasonable doubt” doesn’t follow, unfortunately. At best (and this is contingent on the filing of criminal charges), it would reflect Cuccinelli’s failure to prove the charge of fraud beyond a reasonable doubt.
Virginians: what are the chances of stirring up a campaign to impeach Cucchinelli for misappropriating state funds for this witch hunt?
This is a great way for Virginia to lose scientists. It would scare me from doing research at UVA. You lose scientists and you lose scientific discoveries, new companies based on that and, as a results new jobs.
Not seeing that Cuccinelli has any probable cause or right to subpoena anything of Mann’s.
He is the AG, not god, demon, or dictator.
The AG is not above the law.
Eddy #10, Grant money usually goes to pay for summer salaries (most faculty are 9-month salaries), maybe a postdoc, graduate student support, computer time on mainframe or super computers, some travel for professional meeting and/or field research, page fees (for some publications), and equipment for the project. The usage of the monies is usually spelled out in the application, and the receiving institution (UV) makes sure that the categories are spent appropriately. If there was mismanagement of the grant monies, there would be no need to subpoena Mann, as UV has that information.
This is pure harassment since Mann effectively debunked the AGW deniers claim that there was previous global warming in the 1400s.
Cuccinelli has no legal power or authority outside of Virginia. Or as much as I do as a US citizen not in Pennsylvania.
We’ve seen this with McLeroy in Texas and now this AG in Virgina. The fundies really are christofascists. They really want a New Dark Age. They really are xian Dominionists who hate secular democracy. When they get some political power or office, they behave much like an Inquisitor, theocrat, or witch hunter.
I suppose Cuccinelli is frustrated that he can’t simply arrest Mann, torture him, and then burn him at the stake.
Half a million dollars in science isn’t much. Depends on the field.
In physics and medicine, that might buy the coffee and donuts.
Projects and programs often run into the low hundreds of millions and occasionally a lot more.
The total US R&D budget, public and private runs something like 300-400 billion USD.
I am still curious if we will see a wave of new immigrants to Europe, Canada, and Australia consisting mostly of scientists and other well educated people fed up with all the nonsense from the US Taliban.
We saw this in Oklahoma. A witch hunt by fundie christofascists.
Richard Dawkins gave an invited talk at Oklahoma U. and some state legislators went all bonkers. IIRC, they demanded all sorts of documents from the university.
AFAIK, as state legislators, they have no more legal authority to do that than anyone else in the state.
No idea what happened after that. I suspect the university officials just ignored them as being as meaningful and threatening as a chihauhau barking.
As a Virginia resident, I have been ashamed of the performance of Cuccinelli. Unfortunately, I checked the law and Virginia does not have a provision for a recall election. Virginians can sign a recall petition, but then instead of going to a vote, the recalled individual goes to some sort of a trial.
Three more long years…..
Sometimes? The only time it results in anything else is when the salesman in question mistakes reality for snake oil. In either case, the tactics are indistinguishable. It’s called “politics.” And if that sounds incredibly cynical, it’s because it is.
I start my summer research there in July – in the Department of Environmental Science. I’ve already been granted my stipend, so they can’t take it away, right? Right??
Epikt @ 27: The power of the Southern Strategy — wherein corporate America feeds racism-based hatred of government and social programs in order to get white Americans to vote for politicians who’ll cut corporate taxes — is amazing.
I’ve been following the bizarre shenanigans of this theocratic attorney general for a while now.
Is Virginia one of those retarded american states like Texas and Mississippi?
On what scale of retardation is it compared to those two?
I agree. Unfortunately, the characteristics it takes to get elected have nothing in common with what is takes to form good government. The odds of a person having both these qualities must be astronomical. I put the blame for this discrepancy directly on the shoulders of the voter.
“Is Virginia one of those retarded american states like Texas and Mississippi?”
Not usually–though it is a very conservative state. This last election, the democrats fielded very poor candidates, unfortunately. To be fair, Virginia has recently elected some excellent democratic governors and elected the first black governor in the US, Douglas Wilder, believe it or not. Electing this idiot for AG was a serious brain fart, though. *sigh*
No, it doesn’t. That ain’t how it works.
First, I think this is a civil action – the burden of proof is, therefore, “on the balance of probability”, not “beyond reasonable doubt.”
BUT, even if it were “beyond a reasonable doubt”, a failure by the state to demonstrate that Mann had committed fraud IS NOT THE SAME THING as proving that the conclusions of Mann’s research have met that burden.
An simply analogy would be this: Being found NOT GUILTY is not the same thing as being found INNOCENT.
Not being able to prove fraud does not establish the truth of Mann’s research.
/Just sayin’
cousinavi @ 46;
You are absolutely right. The crushing weight of evidence and reams of peer reviewed supporting research does that. Not that any of the above has any chance of penetrating Cuccinelli’s Armour of Wilfull Stupidity + 5 (+10 versus Reason).
“I was astounded when some Democrats began jabbering about a “permanent Democratic majority” after Obama’s election.”
Yeah, total blindness there. We can already see how much of Bush’s shenanigans that got us in our current situation have gone down the memory hole. Unless Obama and the Democrats can make money rain from the sky by 2012, they’ll be very vulnerable.
They should have just pulled everyone out of Iraq, passed single-payer healthcare, killed Bush’s tax cuts, repealed Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, and everything else. They’d probably still have the same chance of being voted out in 2010 and 2012 as they do now, but at least we will have had some fucking change.
But think about all the other exciting fishing expeditions we’re in for if Cucinelli succeeds! All kinds of other troublesome science could be gotten rid of!
Don’t care for evil-ution? Let’s go after Richard Lenski and enforce Conservapaedia’s demands that he suppy “all the data” to anyone who asks, and have his conclusions reviewed by an expert panel of Southern Baptist lay ministers!
Annoyed by stem cell research? Let’s subpoena the asses of all biomedical researchers to check for any destructions of snowflake babies!
Want to teach a 6-day-creation of a 6000 year earth? Let’s issue warrants for all the work products of all those cosmologists with their so-called “red shift” observations and “billions of years”!
Why the possibilities are endless!
Being in the peer reviewed scientific literature is a first step for it being the truth. Now, where are the papers to refute Mann in the same literature? Nada. This is an attempt to ignore the science and try AGW science in the press. Totally bogus, and in no way changes the science, which is only refuted by more science.
First, a comprehensive report on the use of “think tanks” funded mostly by Exxon to generate doubt about AGW:
Smoke and mirrors. This report documents the discredited hacks migrating from think tank to think tank, raising the same discredited “research” again, creating the illusion of more than a handful of sources casting doubt on the veracity of AGW.
Second, the limitations of analogies. Here I refer to cousinavi @ 46. To paraphrase Black Adder: “… to you the renaissance was just something that happened to other people.” The founding works of what we now call science, Bacon’s Advancement of Learning and the writings of Galileo, reject inductive arguments as a form of verification. Inductive arguments (analogies, metaphors, similes, etc.) work very well in summarizing a point or providing a simplified version of a theory, but they do not really prove anything in the context of scientific inquiry. References to standards of proof in a law courtroom do not relate directly to scientific findings.
Law and Science operate somewhat differently. In a court of law you only need to persuade 12 “ordinary members of the community” to believe you. Inductive arguments, misdirection and appeals to “common sense” are back in play if you attempt to determine the veracity of scientific theories in a courtroom setting. Great, let’s put the Enlightenment on trial in a kangaroo court.
As Gregory Greenwood already pointed out, the findings are in and overwhelmingly support AGW. Like creationists, if the AGW deniers can not win in one venue (peer-reviewed science) they will try to shift the fight to a venue where they think they can win.
That is what peer review and publication is for. Followed by the test of repeatability by other scientists. And consistency with a few tens of thousands of papers by thousands of other scientists over the last century.
We don’t settle questions about reality by a fishing expedition by an obscure AG. We don’t even settle those questions by rounding up scientists and burning them at the stake. If we did, the sun would still be orbiting the flat earth.
Religious fanatics have a predictable reaction to anything that threatens their dogma. Kill them.
A christofascist religious kook filing a subpoena will prove absolutely nothing except that Cuccinelli is using his office for right wing extremist political agendas. And that he was born too many centuries after the Dark Ages. Which was already known.
Let’s avoid the term Christofascist and Islamofascist. It’s not getting us anywhere and it inaccurate.
Theocrats or dominionists is damning enough.
Is there a Facebook group or petition we can sign to show support? That makes a huge difference in the court of public opinion. “Professor Mann is an eminent researcher doing important work, academic freedom (that one in italics), don’t want people to keep thinking Virginia is a Southern hick state (that one gets em).” Etc. All worded less obviously.
No. It is completely accurate and true.
Who appointed you chief concernofascist troll?
OT, but whither Sunday Sacrilege?
What is it with Cucinelli? This is Idiot Conservatard Thing #47, after the whole “stripping university policies of protections for homosexuals” debacle, the “covering of the boob” on state seal pins, and so forth. It’s like he’s determined to prove a stereotype.
I can’t remember – did Bob McDonnell hire this guy? If he did, we need to put pressure on him to fire his ass.
@Wise Bass – McDonnell is as mad as Cuccinelli.
@a_ray_in_dilbert_space – That’s @maddow ‘s nickname for him, can’t claim credit there.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amaddowblog.msnbc.msn.com+cuccinelli
Wise Bass @ 57
No, Cuccinelli wasn’t hired by McDonnell. He was elected by the good people of Virginia. Barring …I don’t known, can they impeach him?, we’ve got almost four years of his term left. I’m willing to bet at least one of my parents voted for him thanks to that little R next to his name. “I’m just fiscally conservative!” “Then why cote a straight ticket?” :/
Fun fact: I considered VTech for grad school. Despite the serious budget problems occurring at my current institution, I’m quite happy not to be back in VA.
off topic:
Christians Stops Hindu Prayer in Senate
Funny. Not much mention of the ‘hockey-stick’ graph in the frenzied defense of MM, why might that be? Probably because it is at worst, totally fraudulent, or at best, a mathematical artifact. Either way, the HSG is a major embarrassment for lefty science.
Al B. Quirky,
The hockey stick graph has not been mentioned because most of us here actually know that the scientific evidence remains firmly in its support, and no lying denialist fuckwit had brought it up until you did.
mxh:
I’m sure Kenny is confident that he can replace any defectors with the fine products of Liberty “University.”
I doubt this has anything to do with the issue of global warming – it’s probably a simple case of a corrupt politician courting popularity by jumping on the latest bandwagon. It’s all about Cuccinelli’s career, and he probably neither knows nor cares whether Mann’s work is right or not.
Wikipedia reckons that Barratry is a misdemeanour in the State of Virginia. Perhaps the citizens there could ask the Attorney-General to prosecute himself.
The tard is also obsessed with nipples, a la John Ashcroft. Read here for more, and (bonus!!!) vote in the poll!
Al B. Quirky:
No, it’s a major embarrassment for nutcases like you–or it would be if you were actually capable of embarrassment. The hockey stick has been repeatedly re-examined and found to be essentially accurate, aside from trivial quibbles about methodology that do not change the fundamental result. Are you so scientifically illiterate and willfully ignorant that you are unaware of that, or are you simply a pathological liar?
Are you [Al B. Quirky] so scientifically illiterate and willfully ignorant that you are unaware of that, or are you simply a pathological liar? – Epikt
Epikt, I can assure you that in Mr. Quirky’s case, it’s undoubtedly both!
Apparantly he doesn’t know the scientific method :rolleyes: linky,
First he attacks tits, now he’s attacking science. Depending on where you are in Italy, his name would be pronounced one of two ways: “Cooch-inelli” or “Kook-inelli” – I say he’s a crazy cunt. Who the hell put him in office?
Ooh, shithead, why aren’t you citing the peer reviewed scientific literature? That would show us. Or are you just another loudmouthed idjit ideologue with delusions of adequacy? Your inane post strongly indicate the latter. Scientific matters are solved through more science. Science that passes peer review and get published. Where are your papers fuckwit? ABQ, a real unscientific idjit toad troll. Show us otherwise with real scientific evidence. We are still waiting for your scientific evidence, just like we have ever since your first bit of idiocy…
@#70, Madscientist
1.1 million Virginians
Don’t like what the scientists are telling you? Put the feckers on trial. What a monumental waste of time and money (not to mention the resulting anguish).
Society has regressed 400 years in the past 10, thanks to the teabaggers and their ilk. Hey, why not go the whole hog? Bring back the Dark Ages :-
OTOH, if you wish to educate yourself regarding AGW, and like me find the peer reviewed literature a bit unassailable, this is the next best thing:
Spencer Weart’s The Discovery of Global Warming – A History
Read it from top to bottom. Fascinating, and the facts will stick with you.
Knockgoats:
You’re right, of course. Mine was a rhetorical question. Anybody who hangs around here long enough to see many posts of his can’t help but conclude that the autohumiliate lock on his keyboard is stuck in the on position.
Virginians need to be reminded of Cuccinelli — how putting hum on the state stomp of approval :
BE IT ENACTED
That the 1930 vexiliar act of this legislature be amended thus:
The great seal of the Commonwealth of Virginia shall consist of two recyclable metallic discs, two and one-fourth inches in diameter, with an ornamental border one fourth of an inch wide, with such words and figures engraved thereon as will, when used, produce impressions to be described as follows:
On the obverse, Virtus, the genius of the Commonwealth, dressed as an Amazon customarily masectomized, her remaining bosom exposed, resting on her spear point downward dexter, touching the earth; & holding in her left hand, a sheathed sword, or parazonium, pointing upward; her head erect and face upturned; her left foot on the form of Tyranny represented by the prostrate body of Attorney General Cuccinelli, head sinister, his fallen crown nearby, resting on a copy of The Weekly Standard. Above the group and within the border conforming therewith, shall be the word “Virginia,” and, in the space below, on a curved line, shall be the motto, “Sic Semper Tyrannis.”
On the reverse, shall be placed a group consisting of Stultus, the culturally tone deaf State Climatologist, holding two ear trumphets; on his right, a white bearded figure in the robes of a UVA Professor Emeritus, hawking remaindered copies of Unstoppable Global Warming with both hands; on his left, Ceres smoking a cornucopia of tobacco.
Cuccinelli wants to hear from you about what you think of his abuse of power.
He seems to be a cheap whore for energy:
$30,000 – Alpha Natural Resources – Abingdon
$25,000 – Dominion – Richmond
$10,000 – AT Massey Coal Co – Richmond
$5,500 – Dezenhall Resources Ltd – Washington, DC
$5,000 – Koch Industries Inc – North Wichita, KS
“No. It is completely accurate and true.
Who appointed you chief concernofascist troll?”
That made me laugh.
Fascism has a definition, and while despicable I don’t think Islamic Dictatorships or the Christian Dominionists follow.
”
In content, these ideologies are distinguished by five main components. (1) Extreme nationalism, the belief that there is a clearly defined nation which has its own distinctive characteristics, culture, and interests, and which is superior to others. (2) An assertion of national decline—that at some point in the mythical past the nation was great, with harmonious social and political relationships, and dominant over others, and that subsequently it has disintegrated, become internally fractious and divided, and subordinate to lesser nations. (3) This process of national decline is often linked to a diminution of the racial purity of the nation. In some movements the nation is regarded as co-extensive with the race (the nation race), while in others, hierarchies of races are defined generically with nations located within them (the race nation); in virtually all cases, the view is taken that the introduction of impurities has weakened the nation and been responsible for its plight. (4) The blame for national decline and/or racial miscegenation is laid at the door of a conspiracy on the part of other nations/races seen as competing in a desperate struggle for dominance. (5) In that struggle, both capitalism and its political form, liberal democracy, are seen as mere divisive devices designed to fragment the nation and subordinate it further in the world order.
With regard to prescriptive content, the first priority is the reconstitution of the nation as an entity by restoring its purity. The second is to restore national dominance by reorganizing the polity, the economy, and society. Means to this end include variously: (1) the institution of an authoritarian and antiliberal state dominated by a single party; (2) total control by the latter over political aggregation, communication, and socialization; (3) direction by the state of labour and consumption to create a productionist and self-sufficient economy; and (4) a charismatic leader embodying the ‘real’ interests of the nation and energizing the masses. With these priorities fulfilled, the nation would then be in a position to recapture its dominance, if necessary by military means.”
I think the conservative right’s love of capitalism technically keeps them out of being fascism.
erm… I don’t think so!
anyway, ignoring that little piece of bullshit, the description fits American Christian Dominionists quite well. They ARE Christofascists.
@ #9: This a good example of the self destructive nature of Red State idiocy. There are actually a lot of high quality universities in the South, the Midwest and other conservative parts of the country. As scientists in these places increasingly learn that they may face persecution and even prosecution for pursuing the truth the quality of higher learning in the Red States will drop and the place will lose those few islands of learning and modernity that still exist.
not really, unless you use a very trunkated definition of capitalism. There really is such a thing as state-run capitalism (or command capitalism), in addition to the more familiar version of the corporate-run (or free market capitalism).
I plead ignorance about the precise economic situations of the Fascist states, but they do look suspiciously like command-capitalism from over here.
Ah, nice to see we can count on Al B. Moron to spew utter crap all over himself.
So, Al, ever wonder why every other reconstruction gives the same general results as Mann et al. ’98? Ever wonder why independent measures–from speleothermal studies to boreholes to the blooming dates of cherries in Kyoto dating back over 1000 years show the same pattern as Mann et al. ’98? Of course not. That would require you to maintain at least a nodding acquantince with reality. Idjit.
At first, he was kinda cute in a bloated Ashcroft kind of way.
Then he became a real asshole… in a bloated Ashcroft kind of way.
“If fascism came to America it would come wrapped in the flag and whistling ‘The Star Spangled Banner.'” – Sinclair Lewis.
On the whole hair-splitting silliness of whether or not it’s “correct” to use the term Christofascists I suggest reading Uberto Eco’s essay Eternal Fascism: 14 ways of looking at a blackshirt . Think of it like the DSM-IV: that the patient exhibits 10 out of 14 criteria supports a diagnosis of fascism.
I found that Ing defined fascism in such manner as to exempt conservatives based on their worship of capitalism. In historical reality fascist states co-existed with businesses by supplying them with demand for industrial output and cheap labor. There also exists an assumption of facts not in evidence, which is to say that that “free market” capitalism with meaningful competition actually exists. Does the right really love capitalism? Not the ones running the wealthiest companies. If free market competition is such a wonderful thing then why do the most wealthy and powerful corporations and individuals go to such lengths to protect themselves from it? Think “no-bid contract” and also the huge military spending that shovels money into each of the Fortune 500 companies. For more info see The Conservative Nanny State. The idea that “free market” capitalism operates in the U.S. is a joke. I wish that it did. That would be interesting.
Couldn’t the people of Virginia file papers against Cuccinelli? He’s obviously not doing HIS job properly wasting time on this.
“I found that Ing defined fascism in such manner as to exempt conservatives based on their worship of capitalism.”
I used a definition off of the political dictionary. Fascism is just about ALWAYS a right wing movement…it’s one of it’s qualities. How am I going out of my way to exempt conservatives?
The rush to declare innocence is a bit premature, I’m afraid.
The ethics investigation did NOT declare Mann guilty of misconduct. Instead, it found that there were grounds to conduct a detailed investigation. A committee was convened to investigate specific charges of misconduct (the fourth charge in the summary investigation); and that committee is expected to report in late June.
The trick really isn’t that complicated, and it speaks for itself, I think. Mann didn’t feel that two of the curves on one of his graphs agreed sufficiently with dramatic uptick on the temperature record generated by Mann’s research, so he spliced in 20, and 40 years of his data to the end of the other two curves to make them appear that they agreed.All three curves were decadally smoothed so it’s not immediately obvious that there’s an abrupt splice in the other two dataset.
On has to ask: in which peculiar corner of hell is this considered a valid statistical method?
Also worth noting: an earlier congressional investigation found that the statistical methods used to generate the main curve in that particular paper were invalid; but it was unable to reach a conclusion on the the question of Mann’s motive for the mistake.
Now we have emails that speak very directly to the question of motive. Plus a very significant trove of emails collected by the UPenn inquiry which have not yet seen the light of day.
“A review by Pennsylvania State University published in February 2010 cleared Mann of any research misconduct,[5] though a further review is still ongoing”
“More than twelve subsequent scientific papers using various statistical techniques and combinations of proxy records produced reconstructions broadly the same as the original hockey stick graphs, with variations in the extent to which the Medieval Warm Period and subsequent “little ice age” were significant, but almost all of them supported the IPCC conclusion that the warmest decade in 1000 years was probably that at the end of the 20th century. There have also been disputes about the use of Bristlecone and Foxtail Pine tree rings as temperature proxies — the National Research Council report recommends that “strip-bark” samples be avoided for temperature reconstructions[8] – but the same “hockey stick” graph is found in studies which do not use tree ring proxies”
Dude, literally 3 minutes and you could have learned that everything you said was pure bullshit.
Ing: “I think the conservative right’s love of capitalism technically keeps them out of being fascism.”
It’s not really capitalism they love. They love having power over other people and capitalism is the most convenient way for most of them to get that power. The other way is through religion and that has too many complications. When you’re rich and powerful you can do what you want regardless of the laws. Wrapping your desires up in the cloak of capitalism gives the illusion of legitimacy.
Steve Dunlap #85
We tried free market capitalism in this country during the 19th Century. The general public convinced the politicians it was not beneficial for the vast majority of citizens. The regulations put on business were put there for a reason, despite what Larry Summers, Alan Greenspan, and Phil Gramm might tell you. In fact, Greenspan now admits Gramm-Leach-Bliley went too far.
Free market capitalism is great if you’re at the top. It sucks if you aren’t.
Let me rephrase my objection. I think these people are their own brand of crazy and have a unique tangy BBQ smoke house flavor different from Mussolini’s fascism. My point is that we shouldn’t have to add fascism to the end to make these things dirty words. We should fucking use Christian Nationers or Dominionists with the same scorn and GET those things as reviled as fascism.
I want to be clear about this, since some seem to have misunderstood my post on the burden of proof in civil trials.
I was merely replying to the proposition that “Failure to convict Mann in an action for fraud” = “Proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Mann’s research is accurate and his conclusions are true.”
I am not a climate change denier. I did go to law school.
I’m fine with the Enlightenment, peer reviewed scientific journals, and I really, truly think what the Pope did to Galileo was just, you know, uncalled for.
That said, my point remains. Mann’s hoped for success in this farce of a trial simply will not, nor could it, establish Anthropogenic climate change as fact. That’s not what happens in courts of law.
/Just sayin’
Actually, Ing, I’m on your side about this.
The term “fascism” is used way to frequently in political discourse, which only serves to undermine what the word actually means.
edrowland @88:
Exactly. Careful reading of the memo shows…
Oh boy. No. The correlation between one line of tree ring data and actual temperature readings broke down after 1960. So Mann incorporated actual temperature readings in his graphs, a technique described in the paper. The decadal smoothing, also described in the paper, is an established technique for dealing with noisy data. Disagree with these if you like, but you have absolutely no reason to suspect or imply unethical or dishonest behavior.
Ing:
[quote]”More than twelve subsequent scientific papers… &c”
[/quote]
Ummm. Can’t you do better than a quote from Wikipedia??! No footnotes in the wiki article; No indication of which twelve, and what extent they shared authorship, or most particularly, how many times they shared the same set of proxy records, which are exceedingly rare for the 1990s, and as we have discovered, post-CRU-leak are based on discouragingly small numbers of samples. Only 5 tree cores in the case of Briffa, K. R. 2000. Annual climate variability in the Holocene: interpreting the message of ancient trees. Quaternary Science Reviews 19:87-105.
@Edrowland @97:
Must your hand be held at every step? A brief look around on the Internet reveals the following:
Medieval Warm Period – 9th to 13th Centuries and Data Access & Data Contribution
Is this going to be a pattern with you?
Uh… What? That’s not what an inductive argument is. Those are rhetorical devices.
An inductive argument is one with a conclusion that likely follows from its premises, but is not the only possible conclusion one can draw from those premises. Contrast to a deductive argument, which has a conclusion which necessarily follows from its premises.
@trent1492@98:
The entire paragraph is unsourced, and is factually incorect on a number of points. The most obvious factual error in the wiki quote: “almost all of them [proxy surveys] supported the IPCC conclusion that the warmest decade in 1000 years was probably that at the end of the 20th century”. In fact there are vanishingly few temperature proxy records that show data in the 90s. And many that do (the tree ring data, for example), suffer from the infamous “divergence” problem. So if there are twelve papers that support the proposition that the warmest decade in the [last] 1000 years was probably that at the end of the 20th century”, I’d like to see them.
No question that warming (most likely antrhopogenic) occurs at the start of the 20th century. The more difficult question is whether the hysterical uptick in the 90s is real or not.
The links you post do NOT contradict what I said. In the first, the ONLY sharp uptick is the HADCRUT2v instrumental record, which isn’t a proxy. Of the rest, most of the proxies don’t reach the 90s; and most of the proxies — as far as I can see — seem to show little or no increase from 1900. The only proxy that does show the hysterical uptick (the borehole data) is a fitted curve that’s been extrapolated into the 90s. I’d suggest you read the original papers before trying to make the case that borehole data supports huge warming in the 90s.
In the second link: see for yourself. How many of those proxy records have data for the 90s? I clicked through a few dozen or so, and didn’t find any.
You posted the links. DO the right thing, and see for yourself.
@Edrowrland 100:
You have been given a link to a graph that plots twelve different studies using different methodologies and proxies giving the same result as the original Mann paper. Why lie?
Holy shit! You do not need proxy records for the 90’s because you have a instrument record on from the 19th century on. Why do you not know even these basics?
Vinther et al (inc. Jones & Briffa) concede Greenland may have been warmer in the MWP than now.
Uh-huh.
..and:
Wow! So Pharanghouls still believe in MM’s HSG because…what now?
@tresmal@96:
Well, there’s always:
Surely, that’s reason to suspect unethical or dishonest behavior — when Mann himself declars that the trick is dishonest.
oh yeah, because Greenland = whole world.
do you even understand what global climate change means?
@Jadehawk
I knew you’d say that! I even thought about predicting that response, but where exactly the fuck was it cooler (in the MWP) than it is now?
Ing is right. American religious conservatives are not fascists. This is in no way a defence of religious conservatives, just a recognition that “fascism” is a term with an actual, specific historical meaning. While fascists are right-wing authoritarians, not all right-wing authoritarians are fascists.
And we should also remember that the vast majority of Christian conservatives are not Rushdooney-esque ultra-Dominionists. This doesn’t mean that they aren’t crazy and wrong: they are. But there are degrees of crazy and wrong.
As I read the Virginia Fraud Against Taxpayers Act, the statute of limitations has already invalidated much of the request made by the AG. I’m sure UVA has a cadre of tough attorneys who will check that, and that they will probably recommend turning over a lot more information than requested while advising the AG of his lack of authority.
Here’s what I’m looking at:
I’d be real interested in anyone’s familiarity with previous actions under this law. This appears to me to be a grand fishing expedition by the AG. He may argue that he’s got at least a six year statute of limitations, but as I read it, the SOL is limited by the fact that at all research universities, some official must sign off that the research was conducted as described and with no hanky-panky. Criminal complaints brought later generally must have substantial evidence of fraud already on the record, and that’s not the case here.
So, there may be only a three year SOL, and Mann’s been gone five years. It seems to me that any e-mails prior to 2004 would be out of bounds under any reading of the law.
Another grand question is just who is informing the Virginia AG. Real science researchers, like Michael Mann, put themselves and their honor on the line for research grants from the government. We’ve had federal rules against fraud, with jail time as a potential penalty, for a couple of decades, now. Having been in on the administration of these grants from the federal side, and from the research side, too, it’s difficult to see how anything much could have slipped by the usual very-efficient bureaucratic checkings for honesty, other than an outright falsification of evidence. I haven’t done a search, but my memory is that the few serious prosecutions have involved someone checking the data later and finding major trouble. Mann’s data have been checked, and no major trouble.
So, is the AG doing this without any expertise in research funding?
Or is someone informing, and thereby probably unwittingly putting themselves at risk of prosecution for false information? I hope the AG has covered his tail with affidavits from any informants he has. (We can be relatively certain that there is no inside-UVA informant, since the Virginia courts are denied jurisdiction over anything where the internal appeals and corrections processes have not been fully completed, and I find no evidence of any final decision in favor of Mann by UVA . . .)
Climate denialists, including now the AG of Virginia, are clearly desperate. But why? It’s not as if there is any significant legislation pending with any chance of passing. It’s not as if there had been a treaty agreed upon in Copenhagen. There isn’t any action to clean up the environment due to any work Mann has done.
Which sort of leaves us with just pure politics. Cuccinelli.
I thought it odd that the description of the fraud, required by the act for any Civil Investigation Demand, was so fuzzy.
Is there a whiff of malicious prosecution here?
Worse for the AG, Penn State cleared Mann. Constructive knowledge that he’s on a wild goose chase means Cuccinelli should know he’s wasting time an money, which would make him liable under the Virginia Fraud Against Taxpayers Act, right?
Perhaps some enterprising weasel for good will send a certified letter to the AG alerting him to the wasting of time and money he’s off on with this investigation. That’ll be grounds for the later suit against Cuccinelli.
Best,
Ed Darrell
Millard Fillmore’s Bathtub
where exactly the fuck was it cooler (in the MWP) than it is now? – Al B. Quirky
Across most of the northern hemisphere, moron. You could find these things out for yourswelf if you weren’t a fuckwitted ideologue. There has been much less work in the southern hemisphere; it is still just possible new findings there could show short periods of global warmth during the last two millennia comparable to the last decade – which would in no way discredit existing work of course, nor show that the recent rise in temperatures is not due, as the science shows, to our greenhouse gas emissions.
After logging off last night, something struck me: your use of the phrase “lefty science”. An exact parallel to Stalin’s complaints about “bourgeois science”, and the Nazis’ about “Jewish science”. You don’t like the conclusions of a branch of science, so you attribute them to a hated outgroup.
edrowland,
Here’s the rest of the dishonestly truncated quote from Michael Mann:
“…Most proxy reconstructions end somewhere around 1980, for the reasons discussed above. Often, as in the comparisons we show on this site, the instrumental record (which extends to present) is shown along with the reconstructions, and clearly distinguished from them (e.g. highlighted in red as here). Most studies seek to “validate” a reconstruction by showing that it independently reproduces instrumental estimates (e.g. early temperature data available during the 18th and 19th century) that were not used to ‘calibrate’ the proxy data. When this is done, it is indeed possible to quantitatively compare the instrumental record of the past few decades with earlier estimates from the proxy reconstruction, within the context of the estimated uncertainties in the reconstructed values (again see the comparisons here, with the instrumental record clearly distinguished in red, the proxy reconstructions indicated by e.g. blue or green, and the uncertainties indicated by shading)”
The so-called “trick” was clearly indicated and explained when used. Claims that there was any deceit involved are simply denialist lies.
Al B. Moron,
The problem is that there simply is no evidence of a global MWP. It is generally conceded that Northern Europe was roughly as warm as it is today. However, when you look at candidate warm periods from around the globe, they don’t line up with the 800-1200 dates of the European period.
One of the funniest illustrations of this is the rather pathetic attempt by the Idso brothers to prove the MWP. They have a map of the globe showing tiny little graphs from various places on the globe. Wow, you say. Then you blow up the graphs, and they just don’t line up. It’s a wonderful own goal.
@Knockgoats. You complete emblitheration of an idiot. Your link does not answer my question; global/NH/SH does not mean anything if there is not even one particular geographical area where it can be shown that there has been “unprecedented” warming from the MWP to now. Without any such data, the HSG is fucked.
You agree that ‘lefty science’ is a ‘branch of science’, yet call me a ‘fuckwitted ideologue’? Pots & kettles, KG.
By the fucking way, KG, there has been NO significant GW since 1995 (according to Phil Jones), and ZERO GW in the preceding 15 years, which makes a good generational total of 30 years of FA GW. Discuss that.
Al B. Moron says, ” global/NH/SH does not mean anything if there is not even one particular geographical area where it can be shown that there has been “unprecedented” warming from the MWP to now.”
Gee, care to show me a scientific publication where that is a prediction of the science related to CO2 induced warming. ‘Cause I’m pretty familiar with the scientific literature, and I don’t recall seeing any prediction that every point on Earth must be at unprecedented warmth all the time.
You reaaly are a cartoon of a human being, aren’t you. Fucking clownshoe.
[meta]
ABQ troll, you’re derailing the thread towards global warming and relying on SIWOTI.
I guess it counts as a successful trolling. :{
dilbert, just show me one (1) point on Earth that has warmed since the MWP. You utterly clueless moronic pseudo-scientists use every logical fallacy in the book to duck & weave the obvious: it was warmer in the MWP (than now), so the HSG is a crock.
Al B. Quirky wrote:
The planet is warming at around 0.2C per decade, as shown here. There is currently no evidence for any significant deviation from this warming trend.
Looked in a mirror lately? That’s really rich.
*Eupper si muove…*
“And yet it moves…” hey PZ?
[Was this not the word Galileo used when forced to recant his views on the heliocentric model?]
(http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress.com/2010/05/03/and-yet-it-moves-climatologist-michael-mann-targeted-by-virginias-conservative-attorney-general/)
Once again, another fine example of how reactionary or conservative forces will try to squash a world view that conflicts with their own.
I can see several reasons for why he’d do this:
> it keeps the “climategate” scandal on the agenda, even though it has fizzed
> it intimidates and distracts scientists such as Mann
> it discourages funding to climate research
Shameful really.
And it is the denial movement that states others politicise the issue?
Ah, yes… the old ‘Argument from “Cause I said so” ‘.
“By the fucking way, KG, there has been NO significant GW since 1995 (according to Phil Jones), and ZERO GW in the preceding 15 years, which makes a good generational total of 30 years of FA GW. Discuss that.”
Oh man, you don’t know much about statistics, do you.
Ever read about confidence intervals?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm
Beeb interview:
Phil Jones said:
“Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.”
Phil Jones also said, in the same interview:
“I’m 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 – there’s evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.”
Confidence intervals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_interval
“Thus, confidence intervals are used to indicate the reliability of an estimate. How likely the interval is to contain the parameter is determined by the confidence level or confidence coefficient. Increasing the desired confidence level will widen the confidence interval.”
The confidence interval is a level of surety. Just because it does not reach the 95% confidence interval does not mean it hasn’t reached, say, the 90% confidence interval, which from what I can figure out is what they’ve reached.
Try learning some statistics before you debate.
Or science… or reason… or logic… or reading comprehension…
Al B. Moron
Your link does not answer my question; global/NH/SH does not mean anything if there is not even one particular geographical area where it can be shown that there has been “unprecedented” warming from the MWP to now. Without any such data, the HSG is fucked.
You clueless dolt, the link I gave you shows where the data was gathered from. The answer to your question is: practically everywhere except Greenland . (That, of course, is why denialist fuckwits always witter on about Greenland: it’s just about the only example they could use.
You agree that ‘lefty science’ is a ‘branch of science’, yet call me a ‘fuckwitted ideologue’? Pots & kettles, KG.
You outdo yourself in stupidity, shit-for-brains. The branch of science I referred to is of course climate science. There’s no such thing as “lefty science”, any more than there is “bourgeois science” or “Jewish science”.
By the fucking way, KG, there has been NO significant GW since 1995 (according to Phil Jones), and ZERO GW in the preceding 15 years, which makes a good generational total of 30 years of FA GW. Discuss that.
More straight from the denialist dolt’s handbook. Global warming for the last 15 years falls just short of significance – the shorter the period, shit-for-brains, the less likely it is that the signal will emerge from the noise. Over the last 30 years the warming is highly significant – so you’re either a bare-faced liar yourself, or you’re just regurgitating the bare-faced lies some other denialist dolt has fed you.
I see the idjit evidenceless troll AilbeeQuirky still has not presented any evidence. What a loser. Come on idjit, you have the peer reviewed literature sitting there, and you can’t even support your inane points. Two inanities you show your confusion on for example. 1) Local tempratures not equal to global temperatures, and 2) climate is weather over thirty or more years. ABQ is very confused on these basic issues. No wonder he sound illiterate…
Oh, and ABQ, the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate you are scientifically right. The climate people have done their job, and their results are in the peer reviewed scientific literature. Now, you must refute that with more science. Peer reviewed and published science. Start cracking assclam, you have a large job ahead of you…
I just heard a Point of Inquiry interview with Eli Kintisch, author of “Hack the Planet” – a new book about ideas in intentional climate engineering or “geoengineering”.
Kintisch said that he’s receiving a LOT of interest from conservative political organizations and from the anti-Global-Warming crowd. People seem to want a way out of global climate change that doesn’t require slowing down the current energy economy.
So, the climate deniers want to humans to change the climate – something they say we can’t do – to fix a problem they say doesn’t exist.
How can people live with such cognitive dissonance without their heads exploding?
RickK, it’s because they mentally haven’t come down from the trees.
Of course not. Climate trends are hardly ever significant across as little as 15 years. That’s why they’re measured across 30 years.
Now please explain to us what “statistically significant” means, just so we can tell whether you’ve understood it.
Why don’t you look for such places yourself? The link you mention leads to the data.
Besides, you’re completely wrong in claiming that KG “acknowledges that ‘lefty science’ is a branch of science”. He was godwinning you. He was comparing you to Stalin and Hitler, who took all science they didn’t like the results of and labeled it, exactly as you are doing. Science Stalin didn’t like was “bourgeois science”, science Hitler didn’t like was “Jewish science”, science you don’t like is “lefty science”…
Learn to read for understanding. Really.
ABQ, the idjit troll
Evidence for your claim, zero. Refutation of the science, zero. We don’t have to satisfy you. You must satisfy us with the correct peer reviewed and published evidence. And clueless one, your basic problem is conflating local weather with global weather. A small warming in Europe/Greenland is irrelevant if the rest of the globe was cooling or essentially remaining unchanged. You just look stupid with such tactics and ignorance…
Almost. It was eppur si muove or, more etymologically, e pur si muove.
Regarding the Galileo stuff, I find it incredibly ironic that there are any universities named after Bellarmine, the cowardly idiot who tried to tell Galileo to be quiet. There’s at least one.
I don’t know why nobody’s made fun of them yet.
Al B. Clownshoe,
Actually there are few places on Earth that are not already as warm or warmer than they were during the MWP:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/Was-there-a-Medieval-Warm-Period.html
Of course, that’s based on evidence, and you’re not exactly reality-based, are you?
Knockgoats,
I also noted the rather astonishing parallel between “lefty science” from Al B. Clownshoe and the “Jewish science” from Lenard and the Nazis. These prople seem not to realize that there is only one science–and if one has to qualify science by the political affiliation of the scientist, one isn’t doing science.
Edrowland, you seem to miss the entire point of the proxies–namely that they are the only way we can reconstruct temperatures back before the instrumental record. Once we have the instrumental record, there is no real need for the proxies–except to show the goodness of fit for the calibration period.
There is good reason to trust that the proxies accurately reflect temperature in the calibration period. It is also clear that in the period since 1960, some proxies diverge from that behavior. The question is whether the period prior to the calibration period is more like the calibration period or more like the period since 1960.
Since humans have so utterly changed the environment in the post 1960 period, it is much more likely that the pre-calibration period is like the calibration period. What is more, we can test this hypothesis using borehole and other independent methods, and this is borne out. Your allegation against Mann is utterly unfounded–and indeed, that is what the Penn State panel found with respect to the “hide the decline” email.
When Old Adolf annexed Bohemia and Moravia he did so primarily* to get his hands on the Skoda works in Plsen, which were used to make many of the panzers that invaded France and the Low Countries. The German state did not own or run the place though, they handed it over iirc to Krupp Industries, a thoroughly capitalist concern.
BTW Plsen is well worth a visit for hopheads, the centre of town is a bit faded, but the building frontages are still nicely painted. The brewery on the other hand is a must (pun intended).
The Skoda works is still there too, outside town.
*The bit about protecting ethnic Germans was pure propaganda.
Thanks for writing about this and pointing out how wrong it is.
The Union of Concerned Scientists sent the AG a letter yesterday asking him to stop harassing Mike Mann. See the press release and letter here: http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/va-attorney-general-0382.html.
Aaron Huertas
Press Secretary
UCS