People send me stuff via email, and I browse through it all in the early morning, before I go offline and get to work, and that means I often wake up to some of the most disgusting, revolting, horrible messages: death threats, angry letters, and all kinds of interesting insults. But sometimes the worst comes from people who are on my side, like this message that really ruined my breakfast. It’s from a Catholic anti-choice site, full of prim certainties about gods and babies and your reproductive organs, and it has this…this…letter to a young girl, written by Alice von Hildebrand.
Be prepared to hurtle back and forth from hilarity to revulsion.
Let us take off our “secular” eyeglasses, and then we shall be able to see that women, far from being “discriminated” against, are in many ways privileged. And this is the “secret” I wish to share with you. The body of every little girl born into this world is mysteriously sealed by what is properly called the “veil of virginity”. That is to say, a “secret” is entrusted to her body, and a secret is always “veiled”. According to Christian teaching, this veil closes the entrance to a mysterious garden which belongs to God in a special way, and for this reason cannot be entered into except with His express permission, the permission that God grants spouses in the Sacrament of Matrimony. Any little girl aware of this “mystery” will feel that her body is to be modestly clothed, so that its secret will be hidden from lewd looks.
Little girls, of course, grow up. How beautiful when a bride can say to her husband on their wedding night, “I have kept this garden virginal for you, and now, with God’s permission I am giving you its key, knowing that you will enter into it with reverence”.
Moreover, when a wife conceives a few hours after her husband has embraced her, God creates the child’s soul in her body, (as you certainly know, neither husband nor wife can produce the human soul; God alone can create it.) In other words, there is a personal “contact” between God and the woman which, once again, gives to the female body a note of sacredness. Don’t forget that He whom the whole universe cannot contain, was “hidden” in the womb of the Holy Virgin for nine months. Once you realize this, you will be awe-filled for the double mystery that God has confided to you: to conceive a human being made to God’s image and likeness, and to give birth to it in pain and anguish. Do not forget that it was also in pain and anguish that Christ re-opened for us the gates of paradise – which had been shut by sin. To women has been granted the awesome privilege of nobly suffering so that a new human being, made to God’s image and likeness, might come into the world. Meditate upon this for a moment, and you will feel a deep reverence for your body. It belongs to God, and is not a “play thing” that you can dispose of as you please.
Wow. In a few short paragraphs, she’s managed to promote the cult of virginity, insist on magical ensoulment at the instant of conception, belittle the struggle for equality of women, glorify pain, and imply that anyone who doesn’t follow Catholic dogma is throwing away their body…and she does it with a kind of Victorian smugness that alone is rather off-putting.
I think I’ll go take a shower now.
Clearly, epidurals are sinful, and probably the work of the Devil. One shouldn’t try to alleviate suffering during delivery, at least according to von Hildebrand.
I’m glad I haven’t eaten breakfast yet – it would have come right back up! Introducing the idea of a magic grandfatherly person in the room during sex is creepy. And after a 3-day labor with my first child, anyone who glorifies the pain of childbirth is an a-hole, IMHO.
Tony Abbott would love it.
It’s going to take me a considerable period of time to recover from her egregious abuse of quotation marks, let alone the actual content.
Ewww.
EWWWWWWWWW!
So…
What’s the “Little Boy” one like?
“God gives every little boy a – special tree. Now this tree belongs to God, which is why only the Priest is allowed to fondle it until one is wed in holy matrimony…”
The desiccated nuns of the fifties and sixties used to teach their classes encased in the stiff black habits that were still the rule in those days. I guess they had grown up to keep their mysterious gardens under a tarp.
They also wore wedding rings because they were “married” to Jesus, who seems to have been quite a polygamist.
If I ever reproduce you can be SURE I’m getting an epidural, you masochist.
What is it with christians and pain? They get off on it!
And it’s not a garden. It’s a vagina. You can write a lot of poetry around it but it’s not God’s secret garden.
Holy… fuck.
I hate metaphor.
*aah* the ‘Lady Garden’ metaphor… What a load of 19th century twaddle…
Oh gag! Yep, our Leader of the Opposition would totally agree link:
Cult of virginity summarized: women, like CDs and Xbox games, come shrink-wrapped. If you remove the wrapper, they’re worth less.
As the mother of a ten year old daughter, I’m appalled, and SO glad that she never gets exposed to this crap.
However, I just have to comment – if your body is so sacred, how come so many US Christians are fat and don’t exercise? What’s the matter, no funds for maintenance of the sacred site?
Wait, what? Professor Myers, do you just mean the ones that don’t want to kill you? Because…well, that just made me do a double-take. And that was before reading that misogynist drivel. Puke-inducing, indeed.
Sooo… I can Chem-Lawn my girlfriend?
Yea, baby, that’s it, talk dirty to me…
HOT.
So… apparently giving birth was a fairly painless, easy task before Christ was nailed to some pieces of wood?
And “nobly suffer”? What the fuck kind of sick mind finds nobility in suffering? This is the same kind of creepy, twisted psychopath that will put children in a hole or lock them in a closet for days, or put them through occasionally deadly “cleansing” rituals, and believe that the suffering they cause brings them closer to god…
It’s the ability to distort and twist weak minds into this kind of evil, abhorrent thought process and think it spiritual and “noble” that is exactly why religion is so fucking dangerous.
Fuck me, now I’m grumpy… thanks for ruining my morning, PZ… ;^)
Rather than inspiring pious chastity and “awe” for the fact that female humans are born into a state of having not had sex yet (virginity really loses it’s mystique when you think of it that way), I can imagine this inciting hilarity in its target audience, particularly the bit about entering into the virginal garden with reverance (that sounds way, way filthier than just stating outright that she’s talking about sex).
By the by, according to my Mother her sex-education when she was growing up was pretty much entirely composed of nonsense like this.
I’m surprised she didn’t use the “Your virginity is like a present, if you open it before marriage it won’t be as cool when you are married”. I heard that one so many times growing up Catholic.
Having since shed my Catholicism (and also my virginity) I can point directly to where this metaphor breaks down: If your present is a motorcycle, it’s still going to be awesome if you open it early. You just get to play with it for longer.
Wait, what? If you don’t tend to a garden, it dies. A garden needs light and water, and the ocassional tilling. Sounds like someone has no frappin’ idea what they are talking about. Big surprise there.
She got it all wrong of course. As everybody who’s actually read the bible knows: The girl-parts are the property of the father, and is worth 50 shekels.
(At least they’re worth more than pre-zombie Jebus. He was only valued at 30 after all.)
… and rape.
Oh gag!
Yep, Tony Abbott says much the same thing.
Wait, what? If you don’t tend to a garden, it dies. A garden needs light and water, and the ocassional tilling. Sounds like someone has no frappin’ idea what they are talking about. Big surprise there.
Well it’s the usual sexual repression that religious loonies have. But on the positive side it reminds me of the Springsteen song “Secret garden,” which like most of his work, has some of the most beautiful lyrics.
“You’ve gone a million miles
How far you’d get
To that place where you can’t remember
And you can’t forget”
I’m not sure whether to just call the woman who wrote this a conservatard or use my new word: conskankerous.
Look! Here’s a photo of her with her hero.
Creepy.
So let me get this straight. According to this when a whore conceives, God doesn’t ensoul the baby? He does? Then what is so special about the “contact” with God? And does he wash his…um…contacter between women?
#23:
Also, some of the best gardens are open to the public, for a fee. Metaphor fail.
@RayM: No thanks. My stomach is already upset enough as it is. The last thing I need is to see her face.
Who knew Alice listened to Lil’ Wayne?
“The Bible told us every girl was sour/Don’t play in her garden/and don’t smell her flower/call me Mr. Carter or Mr. Lawnmower”
Don’t forget the mention of Original Sin, the liberal dash of guilt, and how evil women are.
Oh, and how there’s no mention of men and their virginity.
That’s right, little girls. Don’t allow the leering perverts even a glimpse of your uterus.
???
I wonder why the extra provision against toplessness, then? Clearly, a top does nothing to prevent a lurid glance at the uterus.
“I have kept this garden virginal for you, and now, with God’s permission I am giving you its key, knowing that you will enter into it with reverence”.
What a total boner killer that line would be.
Gack, I couldn’t even finish the first paragraph. Maybe a shot of vodka instead of coffee…
My niece, who’s actually a very sweet, thoughtful 17 year-old, got into some trouble at school a few weeks back. One of those “traveling abstinence” whacko caravans came to her school to promote abstinence and those stupid “promise rings”… She thought it was pretty stupid. I don’t know whether she’s a virgin or not, and I don’t really care. She seems to me to a a fairly grounded, intelligent kid and I would trust her judgment, much as her mother does.
But the whole event ticked her and some of her friends off, so they went about making t-shirts they were planning to wear at the assembly. The front of it said “Screw Abstinence” (the original said “Fuck Abstinence, which I of coursed like better but they thought it might be a little too vulgar for high-school), the back had pictures of condom packages and said “Protect yourself and the one you love realistically… practice safe sex”. They weren’t allowed in the assembly and were given a week’s detention, but everyone knew about it and the assembly did not go well. I’ve never been prouder of her.
Problem is, most religious people wouldn’t understand for a minute why my niece represents what a real, honest, true American should be and this woman writing the letter to the little girl is a deranged psychopath. They’d probably think the exact opposite.
Ah, so for catholic girls its anal/oral until marriage?
I have to agree with the writer. If a little girl is dressing in a manner such that people can see her hymen, there is a problem.
Wasn’t there indeed a movement against pain relief in labor by religious whackadoodles who invoked the punishment of Eve? (Actually, I happen to prefer natural childbirth, but only because of a rational risk-benefit analysis, not some loony worship of pain!)
But I agree with AmandaS – the most painful thing about this letter is the egregious misuse of quotation marks.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
My dad is sleeping in this room, so I had to laugh silently. But so hard it almost hurt in the lower ribcage.
X-D
CE- Nice!
I have considered writing a book called “Sabotage the Fun Way!” or “Resisting Passively and Loving Every Minute of It”…
Have to go…
Totally regretting not going to catholic high-school now…
No, saddlebacking is a heretic (Baptist) practice.
Yes.
PZ should consider marketing a Pharygula brain soap.
Of course not — the cause of labour pain is some chick who talked to a chatty snake and ate a magic apple:
To the woman he said, “I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” — Genesis 3:16
Does the metaphor actually fail? I suppose we could ask Charlie Sheen…
“You also have a couple of other plots…”
Actually, several surveys have shown that fundy kids do indeed engage in anal and oral to avoid “technically” losing their virginity. I’ve never understood that myself.
Yes, well that’s what I always thought as well… but then this lady says:
Which seems to indicate that pain of childbirth is a reminder of christ’s suffering… which would only make sense if it only started after christ died…
Shoot, I can never keep these stupid religious anecdotes straight… probably better off dismissing the whole lot of them…
I got the perfect solution that will satisfy both sides.
Every woman should lose her virginity to herself. Then they don’t have to give it away to anyone at all. I’m assuming the “herself options” do count as losing their virginity, right?
So baby’s to unmarried parents have no soul? Sucks for them
Here’s the perfect flower for your lovely garden, gals: >a href=”http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rain-tree.com/Plant-Images/Clitoria_macrophylla_p1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rain-tree.com/Plant-Images/clitoria-pic.htm&usg=__6rFW9wYKOwcOAM-iZUZiGwzbVgQ=&h=549&w=800&sz=83&hl=en&start=1&sig2=pxW0N04wl9QW01n6SvEIOA&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=q1AArgFuAL6rLM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dclitoria%2Bplant%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=8jq7S6_vJY3k9QSE1uSzCA”>Clitoria
I just can’t comprehend the sort of worldview that finds “women are privileged to be God’s pain-ridden broodmares” uplifting.
Reading that makes me feel dirty and creepy.
Any little girl aware of this “mystery” will feel that her body is to be modestly clothed, so that its secret will be hidden from lewd looks.
Reminds me of something my ex-mother-in-law told me about the time her dad yanked her down from a tree where she was hanging upside down on a limb, and yelled at her, “Do you know why little girls wear dresses? To hide their underwear!”
Yeah–she thought it was weird and creepy, too, even 40 years later.
Damn, again: Here’s the perfect flower for your lovely garden, gals: Clitoria
@broboxley OT
Off-label usage of the digestive tract is generally frowned upon. I believe that oral is a 10 minute major and anal is a game misconduct.
By the way, I think I’ve come up with an “original” sin. A few months back, I went out with my buddies after work and got so tanked up that I came home and had what I thought was highly successful anal sex with my wife. The next day I asked her about it and she looked at me like I was retarded, which I am sometimes. I think she actually called me an idiot, which is perfectly okay given the context. We LOL’d and ROFL’d!
New thoughtcrime: Intent to have anal sex.
I read that as brain soup. And then thought about how salty that would be.
So God is a pimp?
Any little girl aware of this “mystery” will feel that her body is to be modestly clothed, so that its secret will be hidden from lewd looks.
One other thing. What in the world is anyone doing giving lewd looks to a little girl, anyway? No, don’t arrest the creep who’s perving her, but tell the girl that it’s her fault for not being “modestly clothed” enough, whatever that means to this vile little monster.
Blame the victim at its most disgusting.
The other irony is that it’s quite an interesting remark, in light of the ongoing revelations about the Church and pedophilia.
The sad part is that the stories in Genesis are actually quite ingenious, given the time. I mean, the beginning needs explaining. And the fact that they can see that animals rarely have the kind of trouble that women routinely have giving birth. There must be a reason for that, right?
And things that are a little less “material’ need explaining too. Eddie Izzard has pointed out that there is no such thing as an evil giraffe. They must also have noted that there is a difference between the lion doing what lions do to live and a human murdering someone. They came up with an interesting reason for that: humans know the difference between good and evil and animals don’t. It’s really kind of cool, like most explanatory myths.
To me it is profoundly disrespectful of those myths and the people who made them up that they are treated like “holy scripture” today. It takes away our enjoyment of them and, more importantly, takes away the ability to use them as educational metaphors for dealing with the real world without getting tangled up in religious nonsense.
Yeah, that’s right. I said metaphor. Metaphor, metaphor, metaphor.
*stands proudly in front of the wall, having refused a cigarette and blindfold.
I think pimps generally frown on their “employees” getting pregnant. This essay makes God sound more like a dog breeder, albeit one who enjoys kicking his bitches around a bit when they’re pregnant.
Apparently, while Mary was pregnant, God was offline for 9 months. You’d think folks would notice…what exactly WOULD be noticeable?
I also think it’s funny how Catholics call something a mystery after giving everyone an explanation of something that’s so thorough it becomes tedium.
According to what I understand of their meaning of the word, mystery is supposed to be something you learn about by revelation, but can never really understand. If this miserable old cow doesn’t really understand what’s going on here, then why does she go on and on about it as if she does?
Are you fucking kidding me?!?! It’s sad we cant comment on that letter on their own website.
Being a Brit, I have a long standing respect for the ironic (we need it to maintain simultaneously that line about us being a global power, together with the reality that in fact we are a small island of people obsessed with the weather, an empire we once had and animals).
The irony-sensor thing was strongly triggered by my work firewall filter telling me I could not view the source site for this article (priestsforlife.org I think), as the category “Violence” is prohibited.
Well: good point and fair enough!
The quotes from the article remind me how strongly I’m with Dawkins: indoctrination of children with religion is definitely child abuse…
Did anyone else find it not only ironic but downright ridiculous when she said:
“Don’t forget that He whom the whole universe cannot contain, was “hidden” in the womb of the Holy Virgin for nine months.”
So to summarize, something larger than the universe itself(which as far as we know is still expanding), found its way through tightest of openings, through the garden and ‘veil of virginity’ all without the sacrament of holy matrimony; is she serious?
Couldn’t help but hear SNL’s Church Lady while reading this, even with that it quickly went from funny to sad and disturbing.
Makes me think of a novel I started to read (and then gave up on in disgust) where a serial killer imagines telling the woman he is stalking that she is part of the greatest art form known to man. You can imagine your own details, but probably shouldn’t.
It’s pretty clear from the opening gambit how to read the rest…
Let us take off our “secular” eyeglasses
And presumably put on that good old blindfold of faith?
Thanks, but I think I’ll just fuck it.
Thank you for not provoking my uncontrollable lust.
Almost as gag-o-rific as new age hippie crap!
Thank you for not provoking my uncontrollable lust.
@brimagic #63 apparently she has a clear understanding of quantum physics
Thankfully, we now have ultrasonography. Another thing for which we can thank science, not religion.
@Moggie Jesus is an early adopter:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353230,00.html
Creepy, stilted speeches are totally hawt!
Boys, on the other hand, are born soiled because there’s no hymen to show whether they’re virgin? No, I forgot, male virginity doesn’t matter: in that universe, sex only dirties women, not men.
I think this is a great way to judge my compatibility with a guy. If talking about virginal gardens, God’s permission and “entering into it with reverence”, causes him to starts looking at me with pity and disgust, he might actually be worth a “day pass”.
I see an SMBC comic in this, oddly enough…
HIM: Talk dirty to me, baby!
HER: Defile my sacred garden, o file fornicator…
(/Mind you, I see those pretty much everywhere.)
… also, I’d like to point out that while ‘file fornicator’ was actually just a typo, there probably is some sex act, somewhere, that could roughly be described by that phrase…
(/And, this being the internet, yes, there’s almost certainly also porn of it.)
What is hotter on a woman than muted tones and long baggy skirts? And I am sure that wearing dull drab clothing inspires confidence in women. They wouldn’t be suseptible to participating in degrading actions with the first guy that shows them any kind of attention…just ask Warren Jeffs!
Careful! You could end up as the subject of an outraged post on the Intersection.
I have never laughed so hard or so often while reading a Pharyngula thread before.
Thank you all!
Beside Humans and some Primates, other female mammals that are born with hymens are Llamas, Guinea pigs, Manatees, Moles, Toothed whales, Elephants, Rats, Seals, and Horses.
Source: “The Story of V: a natural history of female sexuality”, Blackledge, C., 2004, Rutgers University Press
Well, Mother Teresa, for one.
Clearly, before Christ, women suffered in childbirth because of Eve’s sin. After Christ “cleansed” us of that sin, women suffer in childbirth to commemorate Christ’s “sacrifice”. Never heard of someone claiming his sacrifice to be that everyone else has to suffer.
These freaks never get the irony – all that purple prose does more to make sex and the female body seem filthy than than the most hardcore porn. And I don’t mean filthy as in hawt, but as in creepy and sinister . Of course, they’d approve of that outcome, even if they think they meant to glorify and prettify women.
That explains why my parents told me they found me under a cabbage leaf.
Hey now. Don’t go wrecking my chances by mentioning it, dammit…
I mean, sure, we all dream of such things… But I find it’s best just to do your thing with passion and with love, try not to hope too hard. The honours will come when and if they do… You can’t get too wrapped up in that stuff… It’s just… Umm…
Oh, who am I kidding. I’m as much an attention whore as any B-list celeb bucking for an Oscar…
(/Heads out to mail gift basket containing copies of thread, together with his ‘n hers matching thongs with the phrase ‘file fornicator’ prominently printed on them, to Mooneybaum…)
1/3 man @ 5:
…and when it’s young, it needs a little pruning…
I wonder if the 75,000 known mutations in 3000 genes that cause heritable diseases are also in God’s image, or if he made those up especially for us, because we are so magical and sacred.
And that’s because women are privileged.
There’s even a term for it!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Missouri%20compromise
@ ChristineLynne #38
There was a religious movement against anesthesia when it was first used in the mid-19th century, because pain was seen as part of God’s natural plan. Imagine all the useful surgery that wouldn’t happen if it had been banned. Religious whackadoodles have always been holding up progress.
spunmunkey@9: More like 16th century twaddle, actually–the ladyparts = garden thing was a standard metaphor in Shakespeare’s day, and probably well before. There’s an English folk song that runs “Come all ye fair and tender maids / That flourish in your prime / Beware, take care, keep your gardens fair / Let no man steal your thyme”.
Antique metaphors for sex and sexuality… kind of interesting, really.
I don’t know about the US, but in the UK any resistance to anaesthesia evaporated after Queen Victoria was given chloroform during the delivery of one of her children.
I always hate this one. Women are privileged because they can get pregnant and give birth, so they don’t need things like the right to vote, work, get an education, and run their own lives anyway they please. Inferior, second class citizens, property or not much better.
The RCC says it. The Mormons say it constantly, worse than the Catholics if that is possible. Dobson of Focus on the Theocracy says it.
Of course it is self serving nonsense.
Eew, that makes me feel dirty, ironically. Even if it *is* a garden, it belongs to just me, thanks.
I tried what she said. I took off my eyeglasses, but I didn’t see a damned thing she described. My only regret is putting them back on and reading the rest of her drivel.
…and let us now put them back on, and behold what a massive, putrid, maggot-infested, misogynistic, anti-empowering pile of utter hoeseshit that the foregoing little screed really is.
Or am I being too harsh? Lack of sleep makes me snarky.
Let us now put on our “fundamental” blinders, so that we may “focus”, and see that men, far from being “discriminated” against, are in many ways given free rein to do whatever they please or maybe not it is hard to tell. This is the “Secret” I wish to baffle you with. (The Secret is available via Amazon.com – please click on the link at the side of the page to purchase and donate.) The body of each little “boy” is born into this world with a mysterious covering. This covering is appropriately named “the foreskin.” According to wackadoo teaching the foreskin is properly named as it has the same root word as fornicate, fortune, “Formica”, forestry, and “Formula One.” It is the existence of this secret that allows god and others to treat little “boys” in a “special” way. Older “boys,” if they become aware of this secret and wish to do something about it, will be allowed to feel god’s wrath in the form of burning pain and the lewd looks of “priests”. But back to little “boys”: their secret, given to them by god is so repugnant to god that it must be ripped off to much celebrating and joy. Joy and celebrating by the attending “priests”, not the “boy” – he will be too busy enjoying gods burning pain to much care.
Little “boys,” of course, grow up. And now that their secret has been removed they will want to use the rest of their other gifts at every chance they are given. Now be aware that god is a dastardly dude and while the little “boys” secret was tossed into a hazardous bio-waste drum – he also gave little “girls” a secret as well. And this secret he likes to keep for himself. So he told little “girls” not to share their secret with little “boys”. (Quite the dilemma, no?) But no, no, “boys” should never give up. Keep at those “girls” they might give it up. And if little “girls” are not available, the priests are apparently still standing by to “help” with “secret” “problems.”
“Moreover”, if on the “sacred” wedding night it comes to pass that the “boy” has never used what was left after his secret was sliced “off”- he should “explain” to his new bride that “that was natural” – and that “everyone has that problem” and “not to worry, it will recover right away.” He should also be wise to recall that all over the world god is also trying to “contact” his wife and every other wife there ever was, is and ever will be and it is only by “banging swords celestially ” and “double-penetration” that gods secrets can be passed on to a new generation. “Meditate” on that for a “moment”. And know that god giveth and god taketh; and sometimes god keepeth, and god contacteth, and that you should therefore…ummm, either keep your “secrets” or not or something like that.
“Amen”
On your wedding night, would you prefer to hear your new wife say
a: “I have kept this garden virginal for you, and now, with God’s permission I am giving you its key, knowing that you will enter into it with reverence.”
or
b: “Let’s fuck”
@ #100
a, then b.
@#101
That would actually be awesome
Reverent sex sounds incredibly dull.
“To women has been granted the awesome privilege of nobly suffering…” Why is there this Catholic obsession with suffering??
I knew it would be painful to read anything beyond that. Wow, was I right.
There needs to be an IQ Recovery Center for people who are exposed to large amounts of Crazy and Woo.
x2
Inky–
It depends on what the reverence is toward. Try having someone gaze up at you in adoration while you’re making love. Not dull at all.
@107: I think the word you’re looking for is “ecstasy.”
Zeno | April 6, 2010 8:42 AM:
Catholics will never admit this publicly, but Jesus is a Mormon – a pre Wilford Woodruff Mormon.
@ kantalope #99:
You bring up an interesting point. Boys and girls are both born with pieces of superfluous skin on or in their genitalia. Why is one sacred and protected while the other must be removed posthaste?
@#104
It’s full of masochists. It’s surprising that Catholic Churches don’t have Jesus wearing a ball-gag and leather hood.
Never having gone into a Catholic church, I’m firmly convinced that they hand out nipple clamps at mass. I dare anyone to prove me wrong.
“I have kept this garden virginal for you, and now, with God’s permission I am giving you its key, knowing that you will enter into it with reverence”.
More like, with penetrance, love.
“Never having gone into a Catholic church, I’m firmly convinced that they hand out nipple clamps at mass.”
Pfeh, you wish mass was that interesting.
What, over 100 comments on this and none about exclaiming “Oh, God!” at orgasm?
I am disappoint.
This reminds me of a survey that 50% of American pray before and/or after sex. Americans can’t even fuck without going into a fugue state.
Nobody asked if they prayed before and/or after shitting. Shouldn’t that be some metaphor about the cleansing and resurrection of Jesus?
Well, keep in mind, many of the respondents may be including the following, commonly uttered to one’s self, as prayer:
“Dear god I hope he / she wants to fuck”…
I don’t have a mysterious and special garden.
I have a vagina.
It doesn’t grow grass or roses or daisies and it’s not mysterious to whoever I decide to show it to.
It’s a vagina, for goodness’s sake.
Also, can someone air-drop the woman who said all that cat-licker drivel into Saudi Arabia? Please?
An anti-choicer being anti-woman, anti-sex, and essentially treating women as male property, say it ain’t so!
Overall there’s very little to add to what’s already been said. There’s a lot wrong with this piece and the ways it is horrible are unfortunately not uncommon. Viewing women as passive objects who must “guard against provoking lust” as children, the fact that the virginity trap is designed to try and prevent a woman from having options so she doesn’t have any expectations regarding orgasms or have any knowledge about sex she like, and the whole sick mess that is the pregnancy fetish (barefoot and pregnant is the summation for a reason of their worldview), and of course the big one of “mystifying” sex organs so they can be separated from the women connected to them on both the male side and the female side to devastating effect.
So instead, I’ll note an additional fail on their part.
The point of a garden is that not only does it need to be tilled regularly and exposed to fresh air, but most of all, it needs regular watering.
So regular orgasms are necessary (absolutely true for sexuals, but it’s worth pointing out that Catholic women are carefully trained to view orgasms as the greatest sin ever, as is diddling one’s self, vile woman-hating Church).
What if your garden looks like this????
What the hell? They have to ask God for permission to get married? Or to have sex? Or is getting married God’s permission to have sex?
I know that I would be way off my game after all that.
Which was first, hating sex or ruining it?
What a horrible analogy. I don’t know about you guys, but when I hear “garden”, I think rotting organic material, millipedes, spiders, and all sorts of dreadful insects.
Glad to say I’ve no garden to speak of.
Sounds like someone could use a garden party!
Seriously, why go through life that uptight? I have plenty to fuss about without getting angry that someone, somewhere might be thinking about my uterus.
OK, so if the ladyparts are a metaphorical ‘garden’ that needs tending and ’tilling’, would that make this vibrator a metaphorical rototiller?
You need a new catagory. Creepy.
Tiptoeing around misogyny, Mrs. Alice von Hildebrand? And, yet another reason why catholic priests are forced to stick their penises into a boy’s rectum; Or, force boys to perform fellatio.
ack!- flashbacks!!!!! – my mother said very much the same stuff to me to ensure that i stayed a virgin until i got married – your virginity is a “special gift” crap – “wait until you get married and it will be much more special” – ugh! – didn’t work of course – as soon as i could use my brain properly after divesting it from the stupid Catholic/religious cobwebs, i saw through the bullsh@# – puke puke puke – Jeep-Eep is right – you need a new “Creepy” category – i can assure you, decades after my “garden” was despoiled, this whole thing still makes me shudder – i can’t believe they’re wrecking the psyches of girls with this utter inanity – i can assure you, it still did a number on me even thought i did not listen
A treatise on sex by a woman who has never had sex. It’s just like Twilight.
reverent sex?
I mean… lovey-dovey, cuddly, emotionally intense lovemaking? sure. Fierce, passionate and wild fucking until you drop from exhaustion? sure.
but reverent sex? that sounds like something that would make me start solving math problems in my head to keep myself entertained…
My first response to this abomination may be succinctly summed up as; what the *&%$£!?
A little translation may be in order;
Apologies for the innumerable spelling mistakes. I am too apopletic with rage to be wholly coherent at this point.
You can get nothing that you want at Alice’s restaurant…
I showed this letter to Jesus to see if he even liked it, and all he said was “I can’t fap to this!”
also, this begs for a joke about community gardens and guerilla gardening…
@#118
“Feed me, Seymour! Feed me, now!”
Oh, I feel so juvenile.
If you are really hard pressed before marriage, let your boyfriend stick it in the manure pile ’round back.
re 119:
Or is getting married God’s permission to have sex?
Yes
“You may now boink the bride”?
Celtic @118:
I will see your venus flytraps and raise you a vagina dentata*.
[*actually SFW – it’s just a movie trailer.]
Somebody should have told God he needed permission from his higher power that he needed to marry Mary before raping her.
I take it one needs a hard drive in order to commit file fornication?
Sorry – I didn’t actually go to bed last night and it’s 8:30am. And now I’m pissed off.
That former comment should read:
“Somebody should have told that he needed permission from his higher power to marry Mary before he proceeded to rape her while she was sleeping.”
And an incest dispensation.
DominEditrix@139: Yes, you need a hard drive in order to mount the filesystem, much less fsck it.
Oh dear, I’d have been a creepy old virgin if I’d listened to the cat-lickers of my childhood.
Life’s too short and sex is too fun to be that uptight.
I think it’s the people who are idealistic and take things seriously are the ones who leave churches. The people who skim the surface and pay lip service seem quite happy to stay in the church and pay for sex/ have affairs/ or even generally have a normal sex life (however that shakes out) in private while publicly merrily pointing the finger at others doing the exact same things.
Or, that’s my anecdotal observation, based on a number of small towns where I have lived and been privy to lots and lots of gossip.
That “letter” contained some of the most atrocious “writing” and “misuse” of “quotation marks” that I’ve ever “seen”.
Perhaps instead of Ms. Hildebrand, it should have been “written” by someone capable of “thought”.
And if you don’t believe that it belongs to god, just ask the virgin Mary. See – god is into rape so it must be good, so stop bitchin’ about those priests raping kids; they’re not doing anything god wouldn’t approve of.
@Zeno: The only nuns I recall with a wedding ring were the heretic cult Opus Dei’s “Brides of Christ” – fantastic name for a clutch of necrophiliac nymphomaniacs. As far as I know they’re still all waiting for jesus to come again. And that’s another thing – when a clearly heretic cult is favored by the popes you just have to wonder if the church ever believes anything it claims to believe.
aw man, tough crowd. I should have spent the time studying for my bio exam and I don’t even get a “you know what would have made that funnier? If you’d put something funny in it.”
or the one from class last night: “you know, you seemed smarter when you hadn’t said anything.”
Rorshach @4
Hell, Tony Abbott would resign the Liberal Party to crawl back inside it!
That was a whole new level of creepy I didn’t know existed.
I did, actually, laugh…
You know… In between crossing my legs nervously.
Circumcision, it’s one of those things, y’know? Intrinsically funny, intrinsically… dicey to joke about. Reminds me of this standup guy who was told in some sort of festival gig in which the assembled acts were expected to work their thing around Canadian history in some form that he’d drawn the Great Depression as his topic…
He’s all like: ‘Umm… Yeah… Thanks. This should totally be a breeze… Y’know… I mean, the Great Depression was just so very funny to begin with…
‘But no no, I’m not bucking for sympathy, here. At least this is way better than that time I was doing the European festival and they told me I’d drawn the Holocaust…’
(/Anyway, 7.8 for artistic interpretation; I expect you will qualify for the next heat.)
MadScientist wrote:
You’re assuming God applies the same standards to Himself as to others. When last did you meet an authoritarian bastard who did so?
Damn! Kantalope beat me to at @ 99!
*Grumble* so hard to be original *mutter*
SteveM | April 6, 2010 2:00 PM:
The whole point of such religious drivel is to ensure that as few orgasms as possible occur, and they are all under the control of the church; it is all about manipulating people by taking control of what they desire most.
Yeah. I completely overlooked that in the haze of stupid oxide.
Only Muslims, Jews, and most Americans are circumcised.
OK, I don’t know about Ethiopian Orthodox Christians, but…
Of course.
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
If you had kept shutting up, you’d have stayed a philosopher.
“Better to keep quiet and be thought an idiot than open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
Were I a virgin, Ms. von Hildebrand would have just convinced me to stay one.
As a lady, I can say with certainty, there is nothing beautiful about being able to say “I have kept this garden virginal for you, and now, with God’s permission I am giving you its key, knowing that you will enter into it with reverence”.
I lost my virginity to my current long-term boyfriend. No, I did not “save” myself for him. A number of dudes had tried to “enter into me” but failed because my “veil of virginity” was made of fucking steel. When it finally did tear, I ended up in the hospital because the bleeding didn’t stop for hours and hours. The second time was no different. The first dozen or so times I had sex were excrutiating.
That would have ruined ANYONE’S wedding night. There’s nothing beautiful about awkward fumbling followed by extreme discomfort.
Also, god will never re-open my “gates of paradise”. I’m having c-sections if I ever have kids. I don’t care if the recovery takes longer. It’s certainly quicker and less fuss than bouncing back from a complicated delivery and episiotomy. I love modern medicine. Fuck noble suffering.
Saying “Oh, God” during orgasm: One of the most obnoxiously-Christian guys I ever met had never heard of that phenomenon. I don’t know what that implies, but it struck me as odd.
Supposedly, the worst thing about being an atheist is having no-one to talk to while receiving oral sex. I find it good to talk to the person giving the oral sex, usually. Or is there some way to get oral sex with nobody around but God?
Rachel, didn’t any of your doctors suggest surgical removal of the hymen after your first serious problem? There is a simple surgery for this condition (which is not the average experience) which would have likely saved you a lot of pain as risk of injury.
Not all women are born with hymens, some are born with partial hymens, some are born with elastic hymens which stretch rather than breaking, some are born with such fragilie hymens they tear away before puberty is even reached. Also, the hymen wears away with time even without sexual activity. Most women have no hymen by their late twenties even if they have never had sex. I guess under this twisted christian logic, they have ‘expired’.
Also, the thing about people lusting after little kids, that was super disturbing. If you get lustful seeing naked and barely clothed little kids, you’re the one with the problem, seriously, right wingers.
Is this a ‘typo’?
If not, what on earth did you mean by it, PZ?
Michael Gray-Adelaide
i bet he means readers sending him news-articles; as opposed to assholes directly attacking him by e-mail.
maybe he meant “people who think they are on [his] side”. But, I too do not really see how this letter is an example of someone on PZ’s side.
HAHAHA!
All you people have no idea how fucking pathetic you sound. I couldn’t give a shit less about the catholic church or some nun telling a little future nun about her “special” garden. Does she sound ridiculous? Of course. But you idiots talking about “puke inducing”, “I’m appalled”, and “I think I’ll go take a shower”. Give me a freaking break. She’s a freaking nun. What the hell do you want her to say?
“So little suzy, let me tell you about your pussy and what is going to happen the first time you get fucked.”
You people seriously don’t have anything better to worry about than how some nun describes chastity to some little girl. All the shit that is going on in the world right now, and THIS is what you choose to be up in arms about.
GET A LIFE! Freaking losers.
Dear Mr. Nukem,
On behalf of the Pharynguloid regulars I have a request. Could you please find the time in your busy schedule to do something special for us? Would you please be so kind as to fuck yourself?
Thank you in advance,
‘Tis
DukeNukem:
Are you trying to destroy a few irony meters or what? :)
Yawn, boring idjit with his first sentence. I bet it goes downhill from here in cogency.
The truth, with complete birth control information is a very cogent place to start. Not just telling inane lies.
Nope, we revel in the illogic and idiocy of religion. We see the humor in it. Why can’t you?
Yep, your typical religious fuckwit loser. Lights on, nobody home…
Ok, if the comments on here were just people coming on and making fun of the crazy old nun then that would be one thing. But there are more than a few posters here who actually seem threatened by some freaking nun calling a pussy a “secret garden”. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you people?
To have fun with it is one thing. To take it seriously is idiocy.
Don’t know about you, but every garden I’ve ever seen has had bees, wasps, centipedes, ants, spiders, and caterpillars in it.
In a literal garden — cool. But not in MY “secret garden”, bub!
DukeNukem, apparently I was too elliptical for you.
If we’re pathetic losers with no life for taking issue with this, what does that make you, who takes issue with our taking issue?
To quote a fool: “All the shit that is going on in the world right now, and THIS is what you choose to be up in arms about.”
Hey, I sent you that email this morning! Sorry to ruin your breakfast.
Um, God’s a pimp?
It’s true. It’s just like being a “militant atheist” — writing a blog post means I’m obsessed and up in arms. This is my entire life.
Similarly, I got up this morning and had a rabid, angry shower. Then I had a ferocious breakfast with the most important cup of tea in the universe. And then I exploded all over my computer.
You don’t even want to know how freaking important my morning walk was. It was awesome and public and shrill.
The sad thing is, she’s not a nun:
I used to buy this crap, hook, line, and sinker. I’m so glad I realized I’m gay.
♪
Punting on the Cam, oh please do come they say
Beagling on the downs, oh please so come they say
Garden party held today they say
Oh please do come, oh please do come, they say.
/ ♪
The only idiocy is shown by you, and your too too concern. Get a life elsewhere tone troll. You’re the loser, not us.
And how doubly awesome it is when God grants women the privilege to nobly suffer and die in childbirth.
The standard advice for someone who gets a lot of hate mail is to get someone else to filter and file it elsewhere, say on a University server; to note and report any plausible threats to you; and to pass along any legitimate mail. For the information age, I would add to create a summary with action items,
Here’s a visual..
DukeNukem@166: Oh, don’t worry–we’re definitely laughing at her.
Actually, the history of the pain of childbirth as a cultural value is eye-opening. Doctors, mothers, and midwives have been executed for trying to relieve the pain of childbirth, right up to the end of the 16th century.
Holy crap, she gets off on this stuff. Three-ways with God and divine BDSM are only where it starts. Legitimizing her fantasy is part of her fantasy. This is the most interesting thing that’s ever happened to psychology.
This is a perfect place to quote songwriter Marie-Lynne Hammond:
(more)
I’m a virgin. I also have a Cthuluterus (endometriosis). It hurts a lot, and going by the photos and scans it also looks very, very evil.
Now I want to have a baby just to see if it’ll be an eldritch horror.
I’ve decided that, if I ever have a daughter, I’m going to tell her sex is like camping:
1: Make sure you bring the right equipment for the outing.
2: Make sure your fellow-camper is someone you trust, who is mature enough to handle the responsibility and try to make things fun for both of you.
3: Plan ahead for potential problems, and don’t be afraid to call things off if it looks like the trip is going to be a disaster.
4: The first time is only important in the sense that you want to establish good habits and good memories right from the start; if it turns out badly, though, just try to learn from the experience to make next time better.
Thrice-damned “cult of virginity” is part of the reason that so many girls, once they DO decide to have sex, immediately end up falling into the flip-side trap of assuming they’re no longer ‘special’, and so should sleep with any loser who’ll take her.
I’ve decided that, if I ever have a daughter, I’m going to tell her sex is like camping:
Don’t feed the bears?
…
I’m sorry.
Be aware that no matter how hard you try you may still need a prescription for flagyl when it’s all said and done?
Ahhh! I missed the tone-troll cook-off! If ever there was a candidate for the dunce cap, DukeNukem is it.
Too stupid to grasp the reason why we concern ourselves with this issue;
Too bellicose to listen to rational argument;
Too incoherent to express a cogent position of his own.
Truly a sad case all round, and yet he claims that we are the ones who need to;
Got to love those ALL CAPS; ’tis the surest sign of the intellectually unassailable argument that ever there was….
Uncomfortable, unfulfilling and likely to be ruined by rain?
Ladies have their special garden, but boys have the Little Factory, at least according to the Mormoms.
God also must give permission for the Little Factory workers to enter the Sacred Garden.
http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml
Aquaria @56
Yes, church leaders do blame the girls. This comment was posted by an ex-mormon, and was titled “Walking Pornography”:
I learned a very valuable lesson today: Rape babies don’t have souls.
What an incredibly disgusting and a total objectification of women. When the church (christianity on the whole or a particular denomination) calls something holy I’ve learned that this really means they are claiming they can tell you what you are and are not allowed to do with it. Even your own body, especially if you are female. What tripe.
What is utterly terrifying to me is that every time I think I have just read the most batshit insane nonsense that has ever existed, someone comes along and tops it.
AaaaaaAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAaaAAAAaaAaaaaaaaAAAAAHHHHHhhhhhHHH!!!!!!!!
oh god…. fuxk yeah….