I have a…errm…reputation for offending Catholics. It’s undeserved, since I try so hard to offend everyone, but also because some Catholics are too easily offended. Can you spot the unforgivable offense the writer is complaining about in this story?
Your April 27 front page had an article, “World government race to contain swine flu outbreak.” The article was from the Associated Press.
A picture of a priest distributing the Eucharist had a caption, “Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for a communion wafer Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
That one line drove Helen Licon to write a letter to the editor.
As a Catholic, I was upset with the term “communion wafer.”
Our faith acknowledges the true and complete presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.
The Mass is a Celebration and sacrifice in which the bread and wine is changed into our Lord’s living body and blood (called transubstantiation) by the authority given to the Apostles and handed down through the Church.
The Eucharist is at the heart of our faith, when we receive, we are receiving The Bread of Life.
“I am The Bread of Life” (John 6-48).
Many years ago when I was in a journalism class, I was taught that when you write an article, make sure you have all the correct facts.
This should be even more important when writing about such a important topic as religion.
I respectfully request that this be kept in mind when writing future articles on religion.
Helen, I agree completely with you — accuracy is vital when writing about religion. That’s why, when the Visalia Times-Delta publishes descriptions of Catholic rituals in the future, I insist that they refer to them as “gullible celibates passin’ out crackers”. Or I’ll write them a whiny letter complaining about their lack of respect for my views.
Publix (major Florida grocery chain) has better, tastier crackers, and with no cannibalism required.
I’m not sure what phrase Ms. Licon wants substituted here.
“Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for our Lord’s living body and blood (called transubstantiation) by the authority given to the Apostles and handed down through the Church, the heart of the Catholic faith, for when they receive, they are receiving The Bread of Life, on Sunday, at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
Sheesh.
“Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for a tasteless communion wafer Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
There, all fixed.
Next cheesy movie–PZ vs. the Jesus pieces.
Will PZ survive the bad juju? Will Jesus’ bits be eaten, or be firmly fastened to the holy Quran, and to Dawkins’ writings? Will believers act like rabid morons, or have some class?
You’ll be on the edge of your seats.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
I sure hope she gets all the “correct facts” those “false facts??” are real pesky to deal with.
The reporter could have called it the “Body of Christ” but that might be to literal.
>”…make sure you have all the *correct facts*.”
Poor Helen. Redundancy and stupidity all rolled up in one package.
Guess they could just call them Jesus Crackers. Nothing wrong with that, right???
/snark
OK, a cracker and a sip of bad chianti is one thing, that’s their business. But actual flesh and blood consumed on the premises? That’s a whole different set of public health regulations right there. Meat products, particularly uncooked meat products and untreated blood, are rightly subject to some pretty stringent safeguards.
So if that is what they are feeding people, why aren’t they following the rules?
Hold on PZ! Check your facts. The rituals are actually “ancient credulity wrapped in slutty makeup”. I protest if you refer to them otherwise.
Nothing about the church providing a convenient way to spread the disease? Let them all share the cup!
If I were to attempt to obtain a whole box of communion wafers, how would I do so? Where do the wafers come from? Please don’t ask me what I’d want a whole box of communion wafers for, or why I’d need to assemble a scale model of a torture chamber.
Obviously the usage of “”World government” also indicates some kind of antichrist plot.
Talk about Freudian slips.
I knew this guy who was an altar boy in the Bronx. His favourite stories were the ones about him and the other boys getting drunk off the communion wine and snacking on the wafers when they were hungry/bored.
Furthermore, what is these people’s obsession with some bizarre, perceived right they think they have to never be intellectually offended? What do they care? Why do they need to pass “Blasphemy” laws in Ireland? Shouldn’t their God take care of my blaspheming ass in the afterlife?
I could go on and on and on, it’s all horse shit. Lady, they called it like it is. You got yer wafer. Good on you. CATHOLICS APPARENTLY HAVE PLENTY OF SACRAMENTAL WHINE, TOO.
Sastra, if Helen’s description is, in fact, correct, I’m thinking the more appropriate caption would have been “Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for brraaaaaiiiinnnnsss Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
I believe the proper terminology is “Jeesit”. It is like a Cheesit, but tastes like shit.
Can we possibly hope for another 10 thread 20k comment Cracker gate rehash?
Will William Donohue self wedge his knickers crackwise?
Will the horde of deeply offended catholics flood the comments and claim that they “DEEPLY BELIEVE” it is the body of christ and we are bound by society to respect this?
Will Catholic apologists come in an claim that it was the sodomites fault not the church that covered up the scandal?
Will there be an influx of drippy eyed whiners complaining that we can’t criticize their religion because it offends them and all atheists are mean leaving their spent tissues across Pharyngula for weeks to come?
How many atheism = communism comments will be made?
How many spittle flecked drive by trolls will shit on the thread and claim that we’re all “liberal fagots” who rape donkeys and watch gay midget porn gracing the pages of Science blogs?
What’s the over under on atheists have no basis in morality comments?
Will Matt Nesbit make another comment exposing his yellow underside?
find out later on “As the Blog Turns”
I remember when I was about seven or so I’d be taken to church by my grandmother. She was a Baptist, so their communion only came every few months . I happened to be there the Sunday they had it, and they passed around platters loaded with little shots of grape juice (Welch’s, I saw the bottles in the church’s kitchen). So I was given it, and drank it, and *then* asked what it was for.
My grandmother spent the rest of the sermon with me in the bathroom because I was sure I was going to throw up, and kept wailing about tasting blood in my mouth.
Drat!
I guessed both that they were:
A. upset with the ‘wafer’ statement
or
B. upset that it sounded as if they were saying the taking of the Eucharist was an important step to containing H1N1.
…and sided with B because A sounded way too stupid for words.
That’s pretty damn special. Even if one believes in something as patently irrational transubstantiation, the object being transubstantiated is certainly a communion wafer
… certainly a communion wafer, before, during and after the ceremony, even if one truly believes that it is also the Eucharist.
Hey, I grew up in Visalia! Trust me, the entire town is basically one big ball of stupid.
Christ on a crisp.
Main point being not the supposedly inaccurate description of the cracker, nor Helen’s super-serious approach to said cracker, but that the situation was ripe for spreading swine flu. There oughta be a law.
Note that Helen, if asked, would be constitutionally unable to craft a cracker joke. I’m putting this up (repeat from another post) as my test for what is truly worth serious consideration (Helen, I’m talking to you): If you can’t laugh about it, something is wrong.
Hrm. I have this sudden vision of getting an industrial blender, and creating a cocktail of communion crackers, wine, pages from the Koran, and matzos.
Bottled religion, with plenty of fiber.
Has not the Church rejected transubstantiation already.
ragarth (#10) asked: “If I were to attempt to obtain a whole box of communion wafers, how would I do so? Where do the wafers come from?”
Shop ’til you drop at
http://www.churchpartner.com/category/church-supplies/communion-supplies/communion-bread-wafers-juice/
He doesn’t ONLY single out catholics.
And when he did that particular time do you know why?
—————————————–
Let me add to my list of questions above.
How many Jihad envy posts?
How many posts ignorant of the facts of the situation of the Great Desecration will we have?
Nice post @16, Rev. “spittle-flecked trolls” and “gay midget porn” — a salad of delights. But why are you the only one who knows where the gay midget porn can be found on Science Blogs?
Sastra@2:Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for our Lord’s living body and blood
Maybe they SHOULD report it that way. It might get Catholics to face up to the whole gross theophagy thing.
Ragarth@10: Every so often, I pass a store claiming to sell “Christian supplies”. I have never been curious enough to find out just what “Christian supplies” are (also, y’know, in case my atheist ass gets hit by a divinely-aimed bolt of lightning or something), but maybe that’s where they sell the wafers. I’m thinking maybe they have a whole “Sacred Starch” aisle, where you can get not only your holy crackers, but also Cheetos shaped like the Virgin Mary and tortillas with your choice of vague miraculous imagery.
Really, though, you could probably make your own. If I remember correctly, they are little stamped discs with a little cross stamped onto one side, and they taste like stale matzohs.
No one ever claimed I was fluent in my native language or could write worth a shit.
That’s what happens when two thoughts are typed at the same time then attempted to be merged into one sentence.
At least when I did go to church, our local Epicopals would get someone from the congregation to make bread for the communion.
Christ’s body and blood was delicious. The blood was made by my parents in the den. Mmmmm
Not only do you get to drink blood and eat flesh, you get to be washed in the blood. It’s all blood, you see.
I can see why most vampires have a Catholic style. Have been worried about them lately, not living up to that. Mormon writers hawking vampires. Roughed up and downtrodden vampires featured in movies. It’s all gone to hell. I blame the atheists.
I suggest they replace the term “communion wafer” with “paper-thin pieces of a dead Jewish man”. I wonder how many Catholics would sue for libel?
As a recovering Catholic and former altar boy, I’m pretty sure that “communion wafer” is, in fact, the proper term. Talk about being easily tweaked.
And found on my search of religious supply companies for verification: The Holy Communion Snack Pack!
That would be Episcopals. Silly me, quit caring so long ago I can’t even spell it anymore.
@ Paul Burnett, nice link, I always wondered if just anyone could buy them. I’m also curious if there is the standard “Nutrition Facts” label on those boxes detailing the calories and fat pre/post Transubstantiation.
But if these Catholics had been lined up to receive copies of the Koran you wouldn’t have had the guts to decry letters whining about how it’s the Qur’an.
</snark>
I guess I am confused. What is wrong with the description of it as a “wafer”?
It’s not like the paper said it was a wafer of unleavened bread, is it? It is still a wafer, whether it is bread or meat or green beans or the Body of Christ. Amen.
Unless he’s an anatomical freak he only has one.
It’s a frackin’ wafer.
If it was anything more than that, the image of our lord would occasionally appear on the wafer after it is cooked. But that never happens.
It’s a frackin’ wafer that’s got nothing on the average grilled cheese sandwich.
So glad their religion is getting them all behind closed doors and in close proximity to share food handed out in an unsanitary way. Another victory for reason!
Zombie Jesus Cookies. NOM!
um, wow
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. —Matt 19:26
“Hey, I grew up in Visalia! Trust me, the entire town is basically one big ball of stupid.”
It’s pretty dull, too. I lived up the road a piece in Three Rivers for a few years. Dull as dishwater. Pretty though.
Jebus would probably taste better with cheese on top. If I was to take communion do you think people would be angry if I brought my own Sunday picnic supplies? The wine they give you sucks. I guess there may be some truth to getting what you pay for. If it’s free (free-ish, they make you wait for it and listen to some weird stuff for HOURS) you can’t expect it’ll be good.
LtStorm @18. Thanks for that. I sure hope it was okay for me to laugh uncontrollably for a while.
Clearly you were a true believer at that moment.
Completely OT, but I’ve been really getting into Japanese Anime that is vampire-themed, both the serious ones and the comedic ones. Finally broke down and watched the entire HELLSING series…awesome. The Japanese get a lot of mileage playing around with elements of Christian mythology/symbolism and putting their own unique Anime spin on it; it’s a hoot to watch.
as for the original post, oh noes, it’s the dawning of crackergate part deux!
Just bust out a bottle of cheez whiz (jeez whiz?) right there in church.
@16 Rev. BigDumbChimp
It oughtta be a drinking game.
I am not opposed to this suggestion.
This is overused, but I can think of nothing better to say here than…
Your concern is noted and filed in the proper receptacle.
I’m pretty sure that “communion wafer” is, in fact, the proper term.
Commonly accepted, but the ‘correct’ term is “host”; From the Latin for ‘sacrifice’, Hostia. “Eucharist”, Greek for ‘thanksgiving’, is the ceremony, although it is generally used interchangeably with the sacrament itself.
And it’s totally lifted from the Mysteries of Dionysius. “Wine is my blood”? You figure it out.
Hey, I grew up in Visalia! Trust me, the entire town is basically one big ball of stupid.
Not that much saner down the road here in Bakersfield, either.
@faustfire : Visalia pales in comparison to Hanford. The whackjobs writing into the Sentinel: wow. Just, wow. That’s a special kind of stupid.
This one got me going, until I clicked on it…
S & M communion Bread…
And I suppose this is the correct time to post some Tom Lehrer.. 2-4-6-8 Time to transubstiate!
I am shocked, offended, and outraged that you would have the elitist gall to refer to The Holy Ineffable Cracker as a “wafer.”
I mean, the Holy Ineffable Wafer as a “cracker.”
No, I mean, the Holy Ineffable Body of Our Savior as a
wafercrackerbaked-good of any kind.Please, in the future, refer to it as what it truly represents to we humble Believers: a Jesus McNugget.
No, no: the Most Holy and Ineffable Euchre.
OK then.
Not really sure what she’s asking for. The cracker would indeed be properly referred to as a “communion wafer” and the Catholics would indeed be “standing in line” to get it. The Eucharist is the ceremony, part of the ceremony is getting a wafer to chew on. If she thinks standing in line to get a wafer is offensive then she should join some other religion. One that stands in line for cake and punch, perhaps.
Nor should it be referred to as an “eclair.”
Thank you.
Perhaps she would prefer “slab o’ Jesus” to “communion wafer”?
Just how new are you here? PZ, like most of the commenters here, has a long history of having little tolerance for those who find themselves so easily offended by the use of coarse language, especially when warranted. Nothing is sacred, including your delicate sensibilities.
So, in keeping with that spirit, fuck right off.
Well, after hearing this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#30691090 last night ( 1:43 min mark ) I now fully understand Bill Donohue. There never would have been a scientific revolution w/o catholics and oh yeah, Galileo would have died anyway….
mmmmmm I wonder what Jesus Bacon tastes like?
‘Facty’ enough for you Helen?
Yeah. There’s nothing God hates more than the use of words like ‘fuck’ when foisting altarboy buggerers upon unsuspecting parishes.
We’ll take your concerns under consideration when you Catholics show some goddamn fucking decency and hang your heads in shame for the fact that you put money in the collection coffers of that piece of filth you call a pope.
Rev BDC,
What have you got against gay midget porn?
Jesus crisps. They’re not deep fried, they’re sundried and crucified.
Delicious.
Would she prefer if the paper called them “meat wafers”?
Or “Jesus not on a stick”?
Or “small bits of human flesh”?
All three would be more in line with Catholic mythology.
You can complain about strawmen all you want, but the “reasonable” Catholics make a tiny percentage of the ones who post here.
… I insist that they refer to them as “gullible celibates passin’ out crackers”.
And just how are journalists supposed to verify – from multiple sources, remember – that the cracker-passouters are gullible (enough to fall for their own marketing slogans) and celibate?
Good point #7. Is there such a thing as “wrong facts”?
Fucking canibals…
Wait, am I correct that the “profane language” that started the current round of pearl-clutching was “frackin'”?
my eyes can’t roll hard enough for that one
DaveL, I sense the beginnings of a decent homage to the Crunchy Frog sketch ;)
Obviously you’ve never met my brother.
Oh, and the “true fact” is that it is a cracker. It is a made up fairy tale that the cracker becomes the body of the main character from a poorly written 2,000 year old fantasy novel.
Actually Barb was not one of these kind of trolls I was describing above.
And no I don’t pretend to think that people like barb are completely unreasonable in other aspects of their lives. I don’t know them personally. However, the only way we do know them is how they let themselves be known here in the words they type.
And judging by that, Barb is and was an idiot.
Such as?
no. The caricatures I paint are exactly of some of the easily recognizable forms of commenters we have seen. I did not add anything about the reasonable catholics we have seen here, mainly because we don’t see them commenting often and they weren’t the ones driving the thousand comment threads from the Great Desecration. By no means am I “damning” all Catholics, or even most. Just the ones who come here and display the characteristics I’ve listed above. They could be Baptists, Jews, Atheists, Hindus or members of Heavens gate. If they act like the above then that is the defining issue. This particular thread is about the ridiculous outrage that has been displayed and documented of Catholics reacting to Cracker gate and the OP’s topic, hence the use of “Catholic”.
Oh please. Seriously. That’s the line of argumentation you are going for?
I actually once committed the apparently terrible sin of getting a communion wafer during a Catholic youth service even though gasp I’m not and never have been Catholic. I was young, with a friend who invited me because it was supposed to be an open youth service. Why she was so upset I dunno. I grew up Presbyterian, and we let anybody eat the bread cubes and grape juice.
Go figure.
You can call it a ‘host’ all you want, but there’s no topology that connects to it, so it’s just a standalone cracker.
The sad fact is the her claim can be easily tested. Once a communion wafer is transubstantiated into the living body of Christ, take it into the lab and test it. It is either tranformed into human flesh or not. Proof of God is readily at hand!
We see what we want to see. You want to believe that people like Barb et al. are completely unreasonable.
No, irrational.
But that is an uncharitable reading. Read the commenters here as you would a brother: with patience, respect and care.
As soon as they do so.
There may be more truth to what they have to say than you would wish to acknowledge.
Oh no, not this old crap. No, we’re not afraid of religion. We have read the Bible.
The vast majority of Catholics (and indeed Catholics who post on this site) are entirely reasonable and kind individuals unlike the caricatures you paint.
Sure. There were no death threats at all.
They did that to the Jews you know. Painted caricatures. See where this hate leads?
http://tinyurl.com/cu3ufn
Oh, by the way… take your sanctimonious shit and return it whence it came.
Keeper Too @#66
Oh CRIPES… yet another of the cuddly and credulous.
Check.
Belief really has little to do with it. It’s generally a conclusion drawn from the substance of the comment. No belief required.
What makes you assume we don’t read commenters here EXACTLY as we would a brother. Or a sister. Or mother… or father? You assume too much.
Then again, they may be shown to be simple, credulous, blathering idiots. Again, Keeper Too, for the most part judgment of your comments is generally based on the content itself, not necessarily the your position, ideology, or belief… although the two tend to go hand in hand often.
So, you’ve met, polled, and studied “the vast majority of catholics”? I think what you MEANT to say is “the vast majority of catholics I’ve met. Beyond that, I’m not sure your equipped with enough data to make such a definitive, broad-sweeping statement. My experience shows that statement to be false. But that doesn’t make my claim any more authoritative than yours, frankly.
Seriously… what the heck are you getting at here?
LtStorm @ #18
Catholics use wine, In mexico you can find wine called “Sangre de Cristo” (christ blood) that is favored for this.
It is sweet and has a high alcoholic level.
I remember as a teenager getting drunk with it (it is not very expensive)… Although that was not my intention… I just thought it tasted good..
In Mexico you will find many jokes about the wine used in then mass.
Perhpase he would prefer
“Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up to consume what they believe is the flesh and blood a zombie Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
Zombies make everything more interesting.
Shouldn’t there be a change in DNA after transubstantiation? If there is a change, then, shouldn’t we be able to clone Mr. J?
Oh and Keeper Too. Going back and reading my posts makes me scratch my chin about your hyperbolic comment about caricatures.
Where am I making disparaging comments about all catholics?
Every one of my questions about possible comments is directly traceable to comments on this very blog during Cracker Gate.
If they are not truthful, please demonstrate to me that they are not.
And the one comment you picked didn’t even address Catholics.
Id like you to show me one caricature of all Catholics I made that is in that list. And once you fail to do that show me once caricature this isn’t appropriate.
KreeperTo….too slow to realize that slippery slope arguments are soggy.
#80
Chuckle.
Nice.
@85:
Better than the poor Mormon kids who have to get plowed on Robitussin….
#51 was some kind of in-joke, right?
Because nobody could be that pompous without exploding like an inflated bull-frog.
Pierce R. Butler: Strictly speaking celibacy (in official catholic-speak) is fairly easy to check, it’s chastity that is always questionable.
Hold on, isn’t that what the box says when you buy them?
http://www.echurchdepot.com/popup_image.php?pID=3349&image=0
D’oh!!
Yes, that would be “Jesus con Queso” (with the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus, natch).
How about calling them “cannibalism crackers” then? The Catholics can’t be offended by that–after all, they’re the ones insisting that they’re eating the literal body of Jesus.
I can only wonder what the Helen Licon’s church orders from the church supply company. I would like to know the name of the product and if it the come in deluxe and cheap ass varieties.
that second once should be one
fat fingers ftw
Rev. BigDumbChimp @16 – Thanks ever so much for that one…I’ve set a new personal record for chai snorting.
NERD!!!
oh wait I understood that
Oh gee. We aren’t even up to 75 comments and already a RCC has played both the Catholic persecution card and Godwinned the thread.
1. If any church is expert at persecution it is the Catholic church. Jewish pograms, the Inquisition, the Carthars, the Reformation wars, the New World genocides, the witch burnings, the crusades, and on and on.
For much of the last two thousand years, the RCC was synonymous with death to its victims, many of those deaths involving torture.
2. We know where hate leads. Hitler was a catholic and 40% of his merry band of genocidal maniacs were RCC as well.
Although, it is probably true that the vast majority of Catholics are normal people. There are 70 million in the USA. The vast majority of them are also apathetic and alienated from the current church heirarchy who still live in the Dark Ages.
Keeper, time for your closing. Tell everyone they are going to hell and toss in a few death threats and you are done for the day.
PS “See where this hate leads?” What does laughing at deluded Catholic have to do with hate? Many of us are ex catholics and all of us are either related to or friends with catholics. You have conflated hate for delusions with hate for those who hold delusions. This is dumb.
Pete Rooke?
I defended you Rooke. Why you can’t see that is beyond me.
Yeah. That’s the sort of Catholic I was. Of course, there comes a point where most of us realise that we can’t call ourselves kind at the same time as we defend pedophile bigots.
Look, here’s another tiny minority besmirching the good name of Catholics everywhere! So what are you gonna do Keeper Too? Continue trying to convince us that the majority of Catholics aren’t in agreement with this shithead, or organise the nice, moderate Catholic majority you’re sure exists and collectively tell the Vatican they won’t see another full collection plate until assholes like these are forced to resign and work real jobs for a living?
Otherwise you’re no better than your theology: all sizzle, no steak.
As long as the Catholic hierarchy does stuff like excommunicating people for giving a nine-year-old rape victim an abortion we’ll say nasty things about those sanctimonious fuckers.
PS Rev, maybe if you weren’t such a backstabber I wouldn’t pick on you with my forensic tools of logic. Are you ready to say sorry yet?
*head assplode*
“Forensic tools of logic”. Congratulations, you are the weakest link… goodbye.
I always think of them as tiny semi-edible frisbees.
WATCH OUT!!! Keeper is now into pure passive aggression mode.
He will become homicidal in another 5 minutes.
There might be reasonable and sane catholics but he sure as hell isn’t one.:
I saw two stories on Catholics today.
The first details a renegade parish in Boston whose parishioners don’t want it to close even though the diocese wants to close it. This church is in the middle of valuable property that could be used to help pay off the $85 million dollar settlement Boston has for molestation. One old gal who said she was a “pray, pay, and obey” Catholic is standing up and saying no to the closure.
The other story concerned a latin priest in southern Florida who is in trouble for having a “girl friend.” He is popular on TV in the area and may have to give up the priesthood for matrimony. Nothing like celibacy to keep out the non-molesters with a healthy libedo.
PZ has one thing wrong in his post. In the current church there aren’t enough priests to pass out the wafers, crackers, or eucharist; so, this is often done by the laity.
Ahhh, the Catholic Church, what a mess.
Talking of Catholics… PZ, you and other here might be interested to read about the latest controversy surrounding the Pope.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8046746.stm
laughable
I wanna take Dane Cook’s idea (well it might not be his, I know he’s stolen jokes before), but just buy tons of wafers and put them in boxes labeled “Christ Chex.”
He already wrote the advertising for it… “start your day the holy way with Christ Chex!”
Seriously, you know those fundies would pay for it.
“Catholics performing a cannibalistic ritual where they eat the actual flesh of their resurrected man-god.”
Accurate enough?
Now that’s good eatin’.
The whole world will convert to Roman Catholicism if someone vomits up some transubstantiated meat and blood. My friend says that it wouldn’t work though, because it is too holy to be allowed to become either vomit or feces.
“Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up *to eat living human flesh* Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City.”
According to her letter to the editor, that ought to satisfy Helen.
… certainly a communion wafer, before, during and after the ceremony, even if one truly believes that it is also the Eucharist.
Not really, though most of what I know about transubstantiation (that it actually changes in its essence — essence having some mystical meaning, because even bishops can see that it still looks like a cracker, even when it is no longer a cracker) I learned from folks who preach consubstantion (that it becomes the body while also remaining the cracker). Clearly important differences in religious dogma like this are adequate justification for things like the Thirty Years’ War.
No, no. See, it really is a slippery slope:
The bemused looks lead to tittering…
The tittering to giggling…
The giggling to laughing out loud…
The laughing out loud to uncontrollable heaving guffaws…
The uncontrollable heaving guffaws to innocent victims severely spraining intercostal muscles.
And you do realize that when this happens, they tell you to avoid sneezing, laughing, and heavy breathing–and any activity that might lead to the same–for several weeks, right?
And it’s all fun and games until you have to say to your wife: not tonight, dear. I’ve been laughing at Catholics.
So stop the madness, sez I.
@Keeper Two
The vast majority of Catholics (and indeed Catholics who post on this site) are entirely reasonable and kind individuals unlike the caricatures you paint. They did that to the Jews you know. Painted caricatures. See where this hate leads?
In regard to the first sentence I excerpted, do a search on PZ’s blog for the Courtier’s Defense as a rebuttal. You mya find good, kind people in the pews, but their sincerity does not mean that their views are sensible. Worshipping a cracker as the visible flesh of a god is insanity, even if you raise your pinky when you eat it.
Your second sentence is mere hysteria dressed up in a logical fallacy. No one here is advocating “hate” against Catholics. Nobody plans to discriminate agaisnt them, or herd them into ghettoes, or keep them from entering certain lines of work, or not letting them marry your sister.
We are, however, laughing at their cracker worship because it is superstitious folly. Catholics have the right to their beliefs; they do not have the right to compel others to share those beliefs, or even to respect their beliefs. As Robert Heinlein wrote in The Notebooks of Lazarus Long, “One man’s religion is another man’s horselaugh.”
Nothing new. They think nothing of calling other *people* perverts, homos, abominations, Satan, etc. But you darn well better respect their crackers.
What does the Church say?
How about the Catholic League of America
I’m offended on behalf of Helen. Strangely it only seems to be called a ‘communion wafer’ when it is being ‘desecrated’or being sold
Who wouldn’t want to get Jesus for 54% off? God doesn’t pay retail, why should you!
Was that to me?
Please address #88.
You mean “gullible alleged celibates.”
George:
Easier still, just sit around for awhile and see if the wine clots.
Keeper Too is indeed an anagram for Pete Rooke.
He’s clever.
Banned, but clever.
OK, just banned.
So you don’t even know that homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same?
Quidam:
I’m a bit surprised that you can’t buy them pre-jesused.
There isn’t as far as commenters here go (which was my point all along) and thank you for making my point for me.
Keeper Too @ 118: At least here in the Boston area, most
of the outrage was directed at the archiocese because of
its pattern of protecting the offending priests from any
legal consequences of their acts. Some members of the
heirarchy may have been sincerely attempting to shield
& rehabilitate their fellow priests, but, in the case
the unctuous & smarmy head honcho, Bernard Law, it seemed
to be all politics & PR.
Keeper Too #118
Thanks for proving you’re a bigoted asshole, Keeper. Just for your information, pedophilia and homosexuality are two different things.
Also, the problem we have is not that some priests were pedophiles. There’s going to be some sexual criminals in any large organization. No, the problem is how your church protected these criminals for decades. You are aware that Pope Benny, when he was head of the
Inquisition Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a letter directing bishops to cover up pedophilia. It’s the height of hypocrisy for your church to pretend it has any moral authority when the Pope does that kind of shit.Keeper, the Catholic church knew about the abuses and has actively shielded the child rapists that it employs. To blame the victims or absolve the Church of responsibility for the serial rapes is disgusting.
AJ, you’re on a roll today. The Liberty U accountant bit was priceless.
Oops. In my post #132, the only word that was supposed to be struck out was Inquisition, the old name for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Pedophilic. Not homosexual. There’s a difference. Go sit on your forensic tools of logic while you ponder it.
Well, maybe not buy, but since there are not enough priests to go around, many of them mumble the magic words over extras, so the laity can dispense them when no priest is around to do so.
Which leads to the rational thought: If they are already pre-jesused, why not just have a drive-in service available?
No need to even attend the weekly circle-jerk, just drive around to the window, pay for the damn cracker (well, really, it’s an offering), and be on your way. This would save a lot of real estate, too.
Eek Poe Rot:
And of course the various coverups and corporate malfeasance on the part of the church are just figments of the vile imagination of the liberal media.
The Barb envy has driven poor ol’ Pete even madder than he was before he was banned.
Keeper says, “That certain priests are overcome by homosexual urges”
Pedophilia does not equal homosexuality. Check the DSM, eh?
Although, once again you show that the Catholic church does not care about women because who cares about all of the little girls who were raped, eh? Spread that hate and fear of homosexuals, why don’t you?
By the way, I too, am an ex-Catholic who used to believe the same way that you do, Keeper, until I realized that it was nothing but a bunch of mythology kept alive by weekly donations. I’ll bet selling all of that gold the Vatican has good help feel millions of hungry people in Africa. But, hey, your pope needs to be surrounded by it in order to speak to god.
She sure doesn’t seem to have a problem with people selling “mass” produced Jesus wafers. (Sorry for pun.) Anyway, I can kind of sympathize with her too I guess. These things shouldn’t be called wafers. And definitely not crackers either. I don’t know what the heck those things are, but whatever they are, they definitely aren’t wafers or crackers.
You just did.
Yes it was sloppy of me, I’m sorry. I know plenty of gay people and do not actually believe them to be immoral.
Nope, you’re just here to troll.
Pete is still not acknowledging his hierarchy is a corrupt amoral lot that he should distance himself from. That shows his lack of morality, and why he shouldn’t speak on any topic. Pete, get some morals. Leave your church and renounce your fictional deity.
“If I were to attempt to obtain a whole box of communion wafers, how would I do so? Where do the wafers come from?”
Yes, as another has already answered, you can buy a whole box at any Catholic supply store. However, they are not considered fully functional unless first blessed by a priest. But, there is this priest who goes by the name “Father Oprah” that I hear is currently looking for a job.
How many fucking times?!
It was child abuse, you dumbass.
Are you sure you’re Rooke, and not a Poe?
Can you get little square, cheddar-flavored crackers? Jeez-its?
Nerd,
yes, lately I have been drawn towards faith as articulated in Eagleton’s lectures at Yale (posted here recently). I value the traditions of the church but find it too hard to believe all that is asked of me. I respect those that do, however.
Better keep an eye on your stash Chimpy, ol’ Pete really has the hots for that gay midget porn.
In addition, my faith in dualism has been somewhat shaken by arguments from brain damage etc.
However, I remain a religious man.
One previous commenter mentioned Publix (#1). When I lived briefly in Florida before moving back abroad I savoured their deli. The finest veggie subs in the world.
These are wafers:
http://www.nabiscoworld.com/brands/brandlist.aspx?SiteId=1&CatalogType=1&BrandKey=nilla&BrandLink=/nilla/&BrandId=76&PageNo=1
These are crackers:
http://www.nabiscoworld.com/Brands/brandlist.aspx?SiteId=1&CatalogType=1&BrandKey=premium&BrandLink=/premium/&BrandId=80&PageNo=1
This is paper:
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/sub592/products/bags-paper-brown.html
Communion wafers, communion crackers, or communion paper? What are those “mass” produced communion thingies? Not wafers or crackers, that’s for sure.
Re #134, thanks, man. But seriously, the setups today…
(It’s a bad thing, in part. I’m supposed to be working. And I am… Sorta.)
Catholics believe that the cracker is turned into the body of Christ; not, mind you, just the best cuts. It is more like a slice of salami as it contains meat from his annus, tongue, penis, ear lobe, arm pit, nipples, intestines, nose and toes. And, that is before we get to the fluids and the hairs. No wonder Catholics take a pass on breakfast after swallowing that ghastly cracker.
Matt
You don’t understand. There’s a little-known sacrament of the church called transplantiation. The idea is that if some priest gets caught dipping into an altarboy, then the church can move him to another parish across the country, and all his sins are magically washed away.
Why?
Yes, Pete. Vile and gruesome too. You may try your best to flatter me, but you’re still banned from the spanking couch.
OT- but catholic related. Pilgrims are gathering in Fátima for their annual Mary-fest ATM and there’s always a fair amount of pick-pocketing and stuff with the crowd so the local police chief was on Portuguese TV news talking about security measures. He said (translated and from memory) “The cameras help, but nothing can do miracles”.
I LOL’d
I’m sorry you’re sorry about my ‘loss of faith’ Keeper Two.
The contortions you must engage in to defend the church while trying not to look like the homophobic bigot you are serve as reminders 43,991 I’m glad I’m no longer a theist. There is no denying that the abuse did happen and that piece of excrement Benedict ordered a coverup.
I’d rather be dead than mindless droning shill like you.
I feel I’ve been transported back in time to my halcyon days on the playground listening to two boys yell at each other about how strong their dad is.
We know. The fact that you’re a duplicitous liar gives it away.
Forget crucifixes, prayer beads, and talismans: nothing reveals a man of God like his estrangement from truthfulness.
Catholic priest I know always refers to it as “the cookie”.
Yeah, but you haven’t, so leave if you think you’ve got better things to do.
According to the recipe, you can’t consecrate a cookie (if it has yeast or sugar in it). Your friend is perpetrating a fraud on his congregation.
…
And the host is invalid too.
[blockquote]You don’t understand. There’s a little-known sacrament of the church called transplantiation. The idea is that if some priest gets caught dipping into an altarboy, then the church can move him to another parish across the country, and all his sins are magically washed away.[/blockquote]
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
arguments from brain damage
Huh?
*Sticks thumbs in ears and waggles fingers at Browning proclaiming that he can’t make me.
oops, sorry for the html mistake, lol
Does anyone know how much longer the blog is gonna run like crap?
I’ve never been here when it doesn’t. PZ needs to move it to a land of bigger pipes….tubes, if you will.
/not dumptrucks.
Stu,
when the brain is damaged it is seems possible to predict which mental capacities will be diminished in accordance with the area of damage. But the mind is incorporeal…
Pat, if you going to complain in addition to hector you can leave…
“Passin’ out crackaz,” I insist.
Pete, you can go fuck yourself.
Basically, isn’t Lincoln saying that a journalist needs to explicitely endorse the supernatural beliefs of her religion when reporting about it?
That’s pretty blatant.
PGPWNIT – Really? Most of the time I’ve been here the ol’ blog runs pretty fast. This is the longest screw up I’ve seen.
Keeper Two #174 wrote:
Another way of visualizing the problem is to consider what happens when a small part of the brain is damaged. The mind’s abilities change. A larger part of the brain is damaged. The personality changes. An even larger part of the brain is damaged. The ‘person’ is no longer the same person, and may not even be considered ‘there’ anymore.
But start off by taking a shot gun and blow the brain to smithereens, and suddenly there’s no damage, the mind is supposed to be left completely intact, the person is exactly the same — but in some other dimension.
It’s just not consistent.
(By the way, when was Rooke banned — and why? I’ve been away, and must have missed that.)
I don’t think it is the server. Something in the format or content screws up IE.
I switched to an ancient browser first used by the Sumerians and it runs OK. Not lightening quick but usable.
Pete, that is exacty the behavior that got you banned in the first place. This isn’t your blog, it’s PZ’s. You don’t make the rules, PZ does. You aren’t the Pharyngula cop, that again is PZ. What part of that don’t you understand? Now, you need to go away, and never return. You were banned for a reason, and your behavior today, including morphing and sneaking in the back door, will ensure you place in the dungeon.
For new readers, think twice before going around the mulberry bush with the banned “Pastor” Pete Rooke (whose name has now morphed into Keeper Too).
He’s not genuinely interested in “arguments from brain damage” (LOL) or anything else. He just wants your attention, and he’s not worth it.
Pete got banned for playing with superkook Mabus after he was warned to lay low during one of PZ’s HULK SMASH moods.
All those in favour of the motion that Keeper Too rather than Patricia should leave, say aye!
AYE!
Now over to the rest of my fellow Pharyngulites…
You can’t call it a wafer nor an éclair. It may however bear a passing resemblance to Beef Wellington?
Which “it” are you talking about…
Lowell, still smarting from the intellectual tussel we has as I would expect.
“Lord Nelson!
Lord Beaverbrook!
Sir Winston Churchill!
Sir Anthony Eden!
Clement Attlee!
Henry Cooper!
Lady Diana!
Maggie Thatcher –
can you hear me, Maggie Thatcher! Your boys took one hell of a beating! Your boys took one hell of a beating!”.
No I’m pretty something on the server is causing it. I’ve tried Firefox, IE 7 and 8 and Chrome on a number of computers.
All are running slow.
What do the Pharyngula ladyfolk think about possibility of PZ in tight, ripped, purple shorts?
No. Just no. Wrong. There were loads and loads of girls raped (in fact, the majority of child molestation is hetero); it’s just that the catholic church doesn’t care when girls are abused. And clearly you don’t either.
Ragarth @10,
if all you want is communion wafers, come to Germany. They’re sold at every grocer’s as Oblaten. They are used, and I am not making this up, as a substrate for Lebkuchen, delicious and much-loved gingerbread biscuits.
But if you want those wafers to be, all empirically observable phenomena to the contary, Our Lord’s Living Body, you’ll have to find a man in a dress to wave them about while saying, “Hoc est enim corpus meum” (the origin, if one didn’t know that already, of “hocus pocus”). That is vitally important, because if you don’t have the gesticulating and the priestifying and the weird-phrases-mumbling, your wafer is just a wafer and not Our Lord’s Living Body, so it’s far less satisfying to it use to wipe one’s arse, or to nail it to a banana peel and some blasphemous Dawkins book, or to use it for a Liberty University fraternity Soggy Biscuit contest; or, I suppose, for especially holy Lebkuchen.
If I had been banned, I would have the decency to fuck off. But then, I have decency.
Helen Licon forgot to mention the fact that the waf– the “Bread of Life” [cough] is also “shimmy-free.” Teach all the facts, Ms. Licon, and let the public make up its own mind!
Zar,
No, I was not aware of it. Another instance of seeing the religious as the “other” in which they can be dehumanised beyond belief.
Sastra, that does appear to be a particularly strong formulation of the problem. I also have a problem with what happens during sleep. It seems as if I might as well be dead.
Seems possible? What, did you just pick up a medical journal from the 1850s? You might also be interested to learn some inventors have been having limited success with horseless carriages.
The field is called neurology. Pick up a book one of these days.
Octopus hat yes, purple shorts no.
Brownian, I somewhat distrust the modern-day scientific endeavour.
“The Nazis had pieces of flair. . . that they made the Jews wear.“
People who believe in flying, rainbow coloured unicorns deserve everyone’s respect. Right, Keeper Two? After all, it’s their belief, and we must respect everyone’s beliefs, right?
So, when the “Unicorners” start posting their unprovable impossibilities here, we should treat their views with respect, and not say things like, “Your flying unicorn never existed, you believe in a delusion.”… because that would be offensive to all Unicorners. Right?
I’m almost afraid to ask – why on earth are you quoting a Norwegian football commentator, Keeper Too?
aye! (+)
Only because you depend on 2000 year old mythology.
If I lived with a mindset like that, I’d distrust it too.
It seemed appropriate at the time for some reason. I simply wanted to convey the fact that I crushed Lowell, David Frost, style in our last tussel. A slow skewering.
Religion is the opiate of the people. To err is human; to sin is devine.
Where’s the PZ Signal when you need it?
The Keeper escaped Archam Asylum and is gassing up the place.
Hey…I wonder if the “Jesus was black” churches only use the whole wheat wafers…
Patricia
Wait, a second. I though all catholics desired the spanking couch through transmasterbation.
Can I bring a can of that squirty cheese whiz stuff to put on the cra… uh… Eucharist before I eat it? Might go well with the cheap Chianti. Prolly should bring some fava beans too…
–Mark
Mao, with a name like that while quoting, or rather misquoting Marx, you don’t do atheists any favours
Is that supposed to be funny?
Does PZ know comment verification got turned off?
Yeah he turned anon commenting back on
That’s easily a three *snort* word!
Assuming for a second you did “crush” Lowell (which I don’t buy by the way), you can’t simultaneously claim that you crushed him “David Frost style”, and that the commentary of Bjørge Lillelien conveys this. The style of David Frost, and the commentary of Bjørge Lillelien are very different things as far as I can tell.
Keeper Two: “It seemed appropriate at the time for some reason. I simply wanted to convey the fact that I crushed Lowell, David Frost, style in our last tussel. A slow skewering.”
Sorry, Pete – you’re apparently here to lie your head off. You suffered an embarrassing ass-ream in that little “tussel”.
What a tool you are. Liar. Idiot. Dishonest tool.
Everyone, let the Sleeper Two troll alone to forage for his/her own food. Since he/she distrusts the scientific endeavor, I’d like to see him/her eshew computers (part of the modern scientific endeavor, you know) and fashion a comment out of mud and a lightning bolt (I’m sure he/she can get his/her own dirt). Maybe a waf–a Bread of Life/Manna/Roasted Unicorn shoulder (hmmm, maybe the Duggars add that aphrodesiac to their green bean casserole, Rev. BigDumbChimp? Sorry) will drop from the sky if we let the troll starve. Let’s wait and see. ;-)
link?
Too fucking bad. No one cares. Go find a freeway somewhere and take a snooze bathed in God’s love, or some such idiocy.
ha
Did someone say Communion Wafer Sunday!?! I’ll have mine with two scoops of vanilla ice cream and hot fudge, please! Oh…not “sundae”? Bummer.
So, can we say “wafer-thin” anymore? Are we guilty of a hate crime if we say anything but “Bread of Life-thin”? Is the famous Monty Python Meaning of Life barf-scene going to be bleeped next?
Unless they were handing out bacon instead of jeezusbread I have no idea why she’d be offended unless there was something wrong with her head.
“MAÎTRE D: And finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin Body of Christ.
MR. CREOSOTE: Nah.
MAÎTRE D: Oh, sir, it’s only a tiny, little, thin one.
MR. CREOSOTE: No. Fuck off. I’m full.
MAÎTRE D: Oh, sir. Hmm?
MR. CREOSOTE: [groan]
MAÎTRE D: It’s only wafer thin.
MR. CREOSOTE: Look. I couldn’t eat another thing. I’m absolutely stuffed. Bugger off.
MAÎTRE D: Oh, sir, just– just one.
MR. CREOSOTE: [groaning] All right. Just one.
MAÎTRE D: Just the one, monsieur. Voilà.
MR. CREOSOTE: [groaning]
MAÎTRE D: Bon appétit.
MR. CREOSOTE: [groaning]
[suspenseful music]
[music stops]
[crash]
[BOOM]
[goosh]
[goosh]
[mayhem]
MAÎTRE D: Thank you, sir, and now, here’s ze check.”
And I get to post the link to my Eucharist You Tube Challenge Video again. Mostly drive by trolls leaving nasty comments since the original Crackergate incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq_XZuF6Vsk
Pete you did not ever crush Lowell. That’s bearing false witness (lying for those none fundie readers)- go to hell offense. Flaunting your bullshit religion in our faces instead of in the closet as the zombie ordered – go to hell offense. Or maybe you think gawd finds you real special. A 24 year old going on 6.
Incidentally, I am offended by the term silicon wafers. They’re semi-conducting silicon crystals used for integrated circuits, or SC-SCufICs. Is the Bread o’Life semi-conducting? Maybe they should add some silicon and see what happens during Mass. Then when you take communion, you could have a computer-chip to God implanted right in your tummy! Oh, wait…maybe that’s the Mark of the Other Guy…
Religion. So confusing.
“Transubstantiation.” Gullible much?
Your ritual grew out of Paul’s massive effort to extract Christianity from under the skirts of Judaism. Matzoh from Passover? Hey Presto! Jesus skins! Put another way, “Paulie want a cracker?” Less dogma, more history. No more comic book heroes. Sorry to burst your meat bubble.
I thought I’d shorten Bread o’Life (because it’s somewhat of a mouthful) to Bo’L but then it just sounds like Ba’al.
I see Pete “total fool” Rooke still is running under the delusion that we want and appreciate his participation in our deliberations. Guess what Pete? You could disappear from these threads forever, and our only worry would be whether you might reappear to taint them with your brand on inane and ridiculous observations and opinions. Begone troll, begone!
It’s the cannibal run.
Ellen, from the letter to the editor, has to be a poe, right? Right? [alternates shots of tequila with slamming of head onto desk]
You’ve a lot to learn, young Pete… and you will.
You are learning now, whether you admit it to yourself or not.
Give it few more years, and you may have a catharsis… or you may go out in a blaze of glory when the logical part of your brain finally kicks in, and decides in an instant that it has to kill the superstitious part of your brain that keeps trying to justify the inane.
In case of the latter, break out the video camera.
Old enough to be your mother, twerp.
Scooter – You look much better in your underpants than I’m guessing Big Bad Bill would. I’m surprised he didn’t raise hell with YouTube over that video.
Er, my only worry is whether I used enough lye and hid the body deep enough. But that’s only because I’m a perfectionist who takes pride in his work.
You can do a Google search for “communion wafer” on catholic.com, the website of the Catholic church, and the phrase is used over and over by Catholics in their forums, though the term that is used on pages authored by the Church is “Eucharist.” So while it’s not the formal term, it is a common term used by Catholics themselves.
It’s great entertainment, too, as you can read about whether a rice wafer can be used (no), whether it’s okay to chew it (yes, but many don’t want to) and “While on youth camp one year I heard about some satanic groups that pay handsomely to swap the communion wafer with some hexed or cursed wafer” (wow).
You all guys are wrong.
The wafers are actually tasty if you spread some dulce de leche or (“manjar blanco”) between two of them. You’ll need bigger ones though. Jesus could have been fatter, you know, so we could get bigger chunks.
Patricia,
I didn’t get quashed when they went through and wiped out FSM Dude and other eucharist desecration vids. I guess it was too obviously a Donahue satire, and also no claims to be using actual blessed cookies.
i was feeling kind of left out, they even censored the guy who made the EXPELLED video with the really cool animations of Darwin, Dawkins, PZ and Genie Scott.
Rev. BigDumbChimp #218
I honestly don’t know what “intellectual tussel” Pastor Pete is going on about. I don’t remember discussing anything of substance with him. And he’s made a fool of himself here so many times, I can’t be bothered to look.
The only slightly interesting thing I can remember is that during Pharyngula: Survivor, I pressed him about the inconsistencies between his initial persona during Crackergate (a pastor at “St. Chad’s Omega Church” with a wife and children) and his current one (a 22-year-old single college student).
See comment #657 in this thread: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/survivor_pharyngula_day_three.php
Comment #201 here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/survivor_pharyngula_day_four.php#comments
Comment #93 here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/survivor_pharyngula_day_five.php#comments
I’m sure you will be shocked, shocked! to hear that Pastor Pete lies. A lot.
Keeper Too (idiot extraordinaire) burbled:
You’re not in a tiff, asshole. You’re being publicly humiliated because you’re an asshole, a troll, and apparently a moron with delusion of grandeur.
you’re also dishonest, right Pete? you’ve been banned because you were a childish asshole. and yet here you are; wasting space. lying for jebus.
Frickin’ asshole. You need to get a life, pete, instead of wanking off all day.
I had forgotten ( silly me ) that bearing false witness only applies when a non believer lies.
Yaeh Lowell I have no idea what the hell Rookey is talking about.
He’s an argumentative Christian in denial of science. Of course he lies. What’s so funny is that the Xian faith specifically prohibits lying. Really. It’s one of the big no-nos. So Pete (Keeper Too) is either a genuine troll (pretending to be annoying); or a non-Christian pretending to be one.
They burn false witnesses in the Holy Barbecue, i understand.
Yes, the journalist should have been more truthful–“Catholics line up for a communion wafer which they believe (really!)turns into the FLESH of a dead guy who demanded that his minions worship him via ingestion. (*snicker*)
*I was baptized Catholic as a defenseless infant; I find blasphemy very healing.
Note to the Holier than Thou:
I was baptized Catholic as a defenseless infant; I find blasphemy very healing.
I keep trying to spread the meme that it’s called Soylent Jesus.
So far it hasn’t worked.
“Gullible celibates passing out crackers!”
OMGZ PZ DID IT AGAIN
I keep trying to spread the meme that it’s called Soylent Jesus.
So far it hasn’t worked.
Well, to quote the Rev. Phelps
“God [ie they-who-shall-not-be-named] hates f[orced meme]s!”
Shit! Phelps quoter at 250 was me.
Why does this remind me of Henry Raddick’s Amazon review of: Will I See Fido in Heaven?: Scripturally Revealing God’s Eternal Plan for His Lesser Creatures?
“My 14 year old spaniel Barry’s eternal soul has become a pressing concern for me recently, given his age, and Buddemeyer-Porter’s sensitive guide has allayed some concerns that I have had. I’m reassured to read that the sin of Adam is not upon Barry even though he does not accept Christ as his saviour. Even so, a few wafer hosts can’t hurt his chances, and he just loves them.”
As a fellow godless-liberal I must PLEAD with you guys! Christians of all flavors ARE NOT WORTH the time and effort to even discuss them! Spend your cycles making things, doing things, and discovering things. Deity worship is something that time, education, and consciousness development will conquer. Xianity will NEVER be conquered by simply pointing out how pathetic they are! The “smart” christians eventually figure things out on their own..and when they do, there’s a friendly community of people to welcome their awakening. But they are not bothered by the ridicule. Look! Their Santa Jesus ass-clown invisible friend was supposedly nailed to a tree! They WORSHIP humiliation. They thrive on it! They consider ridicule to be a test of their wacky beliefs. It’s a no-win for the rest of us to play into that. They sap our energy. Forget these worthless fucks and start doing some damn science!
dboy
I think Beef Wellington was a porn star in the 70s.
Killjoy
Kristine:
Sigh. You’re really inviting a god-of-the-bandgaps argument from some troll.
Keeper (Pete) Too: “I am 22 not 24. How old are you?”
AAaaaahhh. Now I know you, Grasshopper.
If you were to live 2.63636363… times your current years, you would be as old as I am.
So. You are young. You are strong and confident. Good.
You are also easily misled, as we all were, once.
You did not crush Lowell, as you think you recall. You can crush nothing more worrisome than a garlic clove, assuming that you can cook.
Pay the most attention to ideas that you do not like, Grasshopper. If you learn to hear their voices then you will have begun to understand.
Now go.
Dem crackers haz no flesh! Iz a lie!
CANNIBAL!!!!
I firmly believe that all organized religion is a fucking joke. Regardless of whether you believe in God or not, the institution is so very greedy, deceptive, ect. All races, creeds and sexual orientation, as well as agnostics or athiests are human beings and deserve the same rights and priviledges as all others are gloriously given. And if you do believe in the Bible then explain the scriptures that state all men are created in the image of God and Do not judge others lest you be judged. what happened to basic human kindness and tolerance of all kind and good people???!!!
I firmly believe that all organized religion is a fucking joke. Regardless of whether you believe in God or not, the institution is so very greedy, deceptive, ect. All races, creeds and sexual orientation, as well as agnostics or athiests are human beings and deserve the same rights and priviledges as all others are gloriously given. And if you do believe in the Bible then explain the scriptures that state all men are created in the image of God and Do not judge others lest you be judged. what happened to basic human kindness and tolerance of all kind and good people???!!!
Heck, I thought she was going to complain about the writer’s choice of “communion” instead of “mass.” But no, she wants to get in an accurate report of the Church’s doctrine. That’s simple enough: just replace “communion” with “an act of ritual cannibalism.”
Hey Dboy, why are you wasting your time on this blog telling people that they are wasting their time on this blog?
Surely there must be sites more deserving of your wisdom, if not, I suggest you create a “Let’s ignore religious world” group… I guess you could talk about gardening, and share tips like:
“Don’t worry about that little patch of fungus in the corner of your yard, how bad can it get?”
“Hey, it’s not like any decision the government makes really effects anybody.”
… and hair care tips.
welcome to the jungle
now, grab a helmet and a bayonet, and prepare to stab some “stupid”, Missy…. your hopes and dreams don’t work over here… grab a flack jacket too… you look the type to carelessly walk around a corner when shots are being fired.
Um, the eucharist is actually both the rite(ceremony) and the bread/wine (body/blood) snack, so by the second definition the cracker by itself wouldn’t be the eucharist.
Catholic priests dip the wafer into the wine and place on the diner’s tongue so, unlike at Wendy’s, communicants don’t get it their way and can’t minisize their orders to get just the bun.
When I got to “Jesus McNuggets” I LOL’d.
But on the pedophile thread: a woman in London, Ontario, has been settled for $1.7 million for years of sex abuse by a local priest, rather than going to trial. The Church had been getting complaints about him for fifteen years and had responded by “a “pattern of shuffling” by the diocese where Sylvestre was moved from parish to parish as complaints arose.” Not by getting him counselling; not by keeping him from seeing kids alone; not by making him resign. They just moved him into new territory.
If the Church settled, it’s probably because they feared a trial would lead to a larger monetary judgement.
The turd on the doorstep is that she told people about it and was not believed. He has “other victims” as well.
Another instance of seeing the religious as the “other” in which they can be dehumanised beyond belief.
that was damn near freudian, Petey.
let me fix it for you:
“Another instance of the religious seeing the “other” and then dehumanizing them beyond belief.”
there ya go.
are you really that desperate for attention that you sockpuppet here?
sad.
But . . . I didn’t want it with catsup. Ketchup. Tomato paste lightly seasoned.
Aww, eat your own.
Shit. Crackergate II – The Sequel.
You guys see this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30644348/
Christian school tells boy to skip prom
He goes to a baptist school (no dancing), she doesn’t.
So now he doesn’t get to graduate with his class (we’ll not
discuss the supposed education he got at a baptist school).
On second thought, it might be better if he didn’t graduate,
Last thing we need is a “so called” educated christian…
#263: Yeah I think you’re right. I thought this was a science blog. I found the blog from an evolutionary bio posting awhile back. Guess it’s really not about that. Religion does not interest me, and whining about religion interests me even less. It’s boring. Religion is obviously harmful. That’s not a news flash. But deity worship has been around for thousands of years and will continue to exist far into the future. The US Army is now a cesspool of jesus freaks who hand out bibles in Occupied Iraq, Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas is wall-to-wall white trash religious fanatics. The US Air Force academy is like monastery for the new Crusaders. And if you are American you’re supporting that shit with your taxes. Can you stop it? Cuz I can’t. New Atheism is a GOOD thing. Militant Atheism is an even better thing. But approaching it by obsessing over christians and their cannibalism fetish is just a waste of time.
The way to destroy religion is through GOOD SCIENCE. Biology is interesting. Religion isn’t. If this is a religion blog then I’m outta here. Removing from my feed list.
Dboy
Damn! I was just reminded I have piles of hostia. They weren’t sold as communion wafers, but used as lining in baking, as in panforte di Siena, but were indeed sold as ‘hostia.’
@270
Read back some, you’ll find lots of interesting things all sciencey.
Course you’re gone now, so nevermind I guess.
I once heard of a person who had written a long letter to a restaurant, complaining about how horrible it was that such a good and fancy restaurant could make a spellingerror. They had made a small error on a menu and this person sent a long letter that even contained several errors, itself.
I’m surprized that particular congregation is so backward. The worst people ever did to me was stop talking to me (which was not necessarily a bad thing). I used to ask the people next to me which part they got to eat and add: “I think I got the asshole again this week.”
Gah. That personality-shifting assclown Pete ‘I’ve got no idea what an analogy is’ Rooke is back in morphed form?
And you’re 22? Oh your god – I didn’t think anyone’s brain could possibly be as ossified by teh stoopid as yours is at that age. Have you suffered some kind of head injury, or shown negative side-effects from excessive drug use?
Pete wrote:
You use this word, ‘natural’ – it does not mean what you think it means. Then again, if I were to just go through your posts and pick out words you use that don’t mean what you think they mean I’d be here all day…
The gift shop in my local cathedral sells communion wafers and very nasty-looking communion wine (available in both alcoholic and non-alcoholic varieties). The wafers cost about £5 a box, and come in two grades. One box, for the churchgoers, contains 250. The other, for the priest, only holds 50 wafers, at the same price. Presumably the Priest’s version contains the choice cuts while the people get the scrag and gristle.
What a cult of personality this blog is.
Both are unnatural (technically not normative) and yet perhaps only one of them is wrong. I am not here to judge.
Uh, no. “normative” means prescriptive, judgmental, defined in terms of right and wrong. E.g., “the banned troll has a normative conception of ‘unnatural'”.
Pete Rooke/Keeper Too was banned, and all of his comments here have been deleted and will be deleted in the future, so you shouldn’t bother replying to him.
What an ignorant comment that was.
Sorry, was already engaged before we figured out who it was.
Sometimes it’s just hard to resist responding to his nonsense.
Deophagists are most sensitive about the language describing their practices.
Correct on both accounts. Sorry PZ.
#268
Nah, this is the cult of personality.
Harry Tuttle @54
So my web site is at cosmicteapot.freesacrifice.com.
Who’d a thunked it.
I wonder which personality this place “cults” around? I don’t read most of PZ’s posts these days, I just look to see who has posted in the recent comments and follow names who usually are involved in topics I consider “interesting”.
Aurghhh. I don’t mind the bannings, but the deletion of previous comments really fucks up the flow of the postings. I’m seeing references to post numbers which are all wrong.
(Also, I’m just masochistic enough to want to read the inane things, just to work up some bile.)
“Many years ago when I was in a journalism class, I was taught that when you write an article, make sure you have all the correct
facts.”
As opposed to all the ‘incorrect facts’. I guess.
Or maybe she wasn’t paying attention to what she was being “taught”. In English class, for example.
“This should be even more important when writing about such a important topic as religion.”
Well, slap me upside the head with a wet fish! What could possibly be more important than getting the “correct facts” for such “[AN] important topic as religion”?
Obviously all other topics should not be construed to be as important. We can all stand corrected (if not chastened) by the crystal clarity and rigor exhibited by the mind of one, Helen Licon, journalist (as she weakly implies).
One may wonder if she was ever taught that the “Eucharist” (which is derived from Greek words which originally meant something like “well-graced” or “favored” that since mutated into something more like “thankfulness” or “gratitude”) is not just the cracker, uh, bread, but a RITE, a “sacrament” or “ordinance” which is applied by means of some ritualized “hocus pocus” – the salient corruption of the phrase “hoc est corpus” uttered by Roman Catholic priests during the rite of “transubstantiation” which is alleged to give to whatever is “consecrated”, be it pieces of bread, wine or even unfermented grape juice (or whatever, I suppose, in principle) the attributes of the ACTUAL flesh and blood of some guy a few thousand years ago who, in a fit of dramatic metaphor one evening (so well-documented legend has it) during a dinner party with friends, suggested to his buddies that when they ate and drank the bread and wine he passed around, they should imagine they were eating his body and drinking his blood.
Perhaps Helen Licon was somewhat inattentive during her catechism class to absorb what they “taught” there to be armed with anything other than a vague impression of the “correct facts”.
Or maybe she was just a tad baffled by its mysterious nature and can’t identify any “correct facts”, other than that they must be there.
Somewhere.
But she is correct. What can POSSIBLY be more important than the topic of religion in order to get the “correct facts” straight?
I have not eaten any gods… today.
I agree with co, PZ… is there any way the comments can be “hidden” while not screwing up the post numbers of other comments? It’s a real pain in the arse when you are trying to catch up on the conversation after a good night’s rest.
“I’m a bit surprised that you can’t buy them pre-jesused.”
You mean as preformatted discs?
If John F. Kennedy had a Jesus complex, would he say, “Ich bin ein cracker!”?
I hear that they are going to try and improve the mass for children by first spraying on some canned cheese product on the crackers, it’s called “Jeez-Wizz”
(Okay, not really, but god that would be hilarious)
Why is it called “manna” instead of “womana”? I’m offended!
. . . one eye open, late to bed, too early rising. Sorry, but I awoke with the notion that the sound of “Jesus and twee-zus” is hilarious.
*I normally employ tweezers to remove splinters, an occupational hazard*
Crudely, you inadvertantly suggest a term for christians that now sounds palatable: “Jeesers”.
I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen that one before, but it might catch on.
I spent much of my life Catholic, and every Catholic I know of and every priest I know of in regular conversation calls it a communion wafer. Even Catholics would call that women batty for her complaint.
Maybe all references to religion should be banned in newspapers since they can’t talk about it the way the religious folk like? Then maybe we’ll be lucky enough that people completely forget about its existence. ;-)
I’m still curious about Jesus Bacon.
I threw up a little in my mouth. Thank god I wasn’t eating jesus.
This is just a test.
The way to destroy religion is through GOOD SCIENCE.
YEAH. It worked so well for Archimedes that we’ve had no problem with religion since.
This is the other end of the test.
That would be “Horc est corpus” rather than “Hoc est corpus,” eh?
This objection to clear language seems to be a new Catholic campaign, because a similar letter appeared in our crappy local paper today:
My response took ideas from this thread.
oldfeminist @ 228:
That’s just a lay-run apologetics site. The Catholic Church doesn’t have a website, although the Holy See does – http://www.vatican.va/
Got a better (legal) way to destroy religion? If not, then less sarcasm please.
OK, #286, how ’bout this:
sung to the tune of “Jeepers Creepers.”
Jeezers tweezers,
Where’d ya get
Those teasers?
Jeezers tweezers,
Where’d you get
Those lies?
So octopus hats do it for Patricia. Or is it just PZ in them?
@HappyTentacles: That gives you a great opportunity – buy some bread and wine and when you have a party have a little sauce bowl with the wine and offer your guests some jeezus bits. I’m sure it’ll be all the rave for the vampire goths as well. Of course it’s not jeezus bits until the magical moment in the mass, but who cares. The wine varies from place to place around the planet but sherri is very popular. In Italy I would guess they use zibibo. I’ve always seen a sweet desert wine; I don’t know if anyone uses a typical dinner wine. Of course it’s red wine because that’s what goes with (red) meat, so at least they’re sticking to the dinner rules.
Wrott: Keep the day job.
What kind of reaction would he get from the parishioners if, during communion, a priest were to put little chunks of raw meat into their mouths and offer them a chalice of real blood?
Would be a rather interesting study. Do the hardcores *really* believe the bread and wine have been turned into flesh and blood, or do they really deep down inside understand it’s all just symbolism?
Silly, of course it’s PZ. *smirk*
With the frequency of Catholic sex scandals, are you sure “celibates” is an accurate description here?
I suggest, given the theme of the story, “Gullible Catholics who entered a closed door Mass line up for a ritual fantasy cracker Sunday at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Mexico City, apparently oblivious to the germ theory.”
Pope waves to crowd in popemobile:
Ratzinger gets mad and hits reporter:
Seriously, he slaps a reporter! Not a joke!
Alex Deam @ #106:
Followed your link and was reminded of why I read BBC news rather than any of the major US sources:
You know the part in bold wouldn’t be included in any paper over here.
Instant Jesus, just add saliva.
Are Catholics allowed to brush their teeth afterwards, or would that be giving Jesus the brush-off?
Another shot of the Pope in the pope mobile
I object to the phrase “world government.” Like the supernatural, such an entity is undetectable.
Did the writer mean the UN?
I rest my case.
I thought someone was going to complain about how people entered through closed doors. Maybe that seems more reasonable than some bread that was made in a factory being changed into skin (or is it muscle, tendons, viscera, cartilage, ligaments, bile, membranes, mucus, or brain matter?)
…What an idiot.