A while back, I posted some email from Debra Rufini that had been forwarded to me — a long list of stupid arguments for creationism. Now, almost 6 months later, she has discovered my posting, and she is hoppin’ mad.
Hello there Mr. Myers,
I must say that I’m incredibly flattered that you’ve gone to all the trouble to ‘attempt’ to tackle my 50 points. One would assume that seeing as tehy were so ridiculously stupid, that you’d rather fob me off as yet just another ‘religious fool’. Had I written to you (Which I hadn’t even done), representing the Flat Earth Society, I could guarantee that you wouldn’t waste your time on a response. If you did, you’d look pretty stupid.
It’s obvious that you really loathe me without even knowing me, and to be honest with you, I reckon I’d be a pretty miserable, angry person with a chip on my shoulder if I also believed that I was no more than worm meat at the end of the day. I do find it interesting that almost all athiests tend to have this angry & patronising streak in them. If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.
It’s not a very professional approach to call people rude names, simply because tehy don’t agree with you, is it?! Sounds like you were the sort of child who threw a tantrum whenerver he didn’t get his sweeties. I would have respected you far more, had you given an adult approach, and responded in a civil manner, in the process not making yourself look so immature.
This ‘thick as bricks’ author has the commpon sense to believe that a mind is responsible for the complexity of life, as opposed to a vast volume of mindless time. Unaided time alone cannot be the great magician that you seem to believe is the case.
It takes a fool to believe that a randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum plus a whole load of time – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porshe!
Jesus called us to love those who persecute us, so that’s exactly what
And it just kind of ends there.
If you look at my original post, you’ll notice that I didn’t waste any time on it — I just posted her list with little attempt to address the flamboyantly obvious inanity of her arguments. It was like a letter from the Flat Earth Society.
I am not surprised that atheists in the vicinity of Debra Rufini seem angry and patronizing. They’re probably also annoyed and exasperated.
Raise your hand if you think chewing gum for a long time will produce a fine German-engineered automobile…
Yes? You in the back? Oh, you were just scratching your nose.
Hmm. Guess there aren’t any fools here. OK, is there anyone here who thinks biologists believe in gum-to-car transmutation?
Debra! Of course! OK, there is one fool here. Maybe she’ll give us the joy of her commentary in the thread down below.
Hang on! I just got the remainder of her message!
Sorry, something happened there – don’t know what!
I was just saying that as Jesus taught us to love those who persecute us, I shall do the same. I pray for you, just as he did for those who crucified him.
Kind regards,
Debra.
P.s. This was typed in a rush, so should there be any spelling mistakes, it’s not because I have the intelligence of a flea. I would like to also point out to you that should this get put on your website, (as I’m sure you’d like to rip me to shreds even further), I shall be deleting any abusive or hate mail I receive either from yourself or any of your other bitter friends.
What a relief. It just wouldn’t be creationist hate mail without the “kind regards” signoff.
Man, you get all the fun emails. Mine are just boring work.
I always appreciate the time you take to set these emails into Comic Sans – the font face of the truly dipshit.
“I would like to also point out to you that should this get put on your website, (as I’m sure you’d like to rip me to shreds even further), I shall be deleting any abusive or hate mail I receive either from yourself or any of your other bitter friends.”
This greatly diminishes the humor available on your site for future posts. Good thing there isn’t a shortage of e-mails like this one.
Raise of hands,
Who believes that any email that you ‘type in a rush’ is an email you should have never sent, typoes or no typoes.
Sorry, something happened there – don’t know what!
I was just saying that . . .
That is possibly the purest, thickest, most syrupy form of funny I have ever encountered. It’s the equivalent of calling your boyfriend to break up with him via voicemail, getting cut off, calling back, and saying “Hey, sorry, I ran out of time on the previous message. So, as I was saying, you’re an asshat who doesn’t appreciate me and I’ve met someone else!”
No, the evidence for that is the gum-to-Porsche comment.
Or maybe that is actually a sign of creativity. I had never met that brand of crazy before.
Why is it that Creationists (or believers of any sort, really) always seem to respond to criticism by saying things like “I know you’re going to rip me to shreds” and “I know you loathe my ideas” and then apologize for silly things like spelling mistakes that can be easily corrected in a minute with the help of a spell checker?
I’d love to see one of these folks write an email that is:
1) Intelligently argued (even if it does make appeals to a holy book or to theism).
2) Devoid of ad hominem attacks or self-deprecation.
3) Lacking either a reactionary or a self-righteous tone.
Can it be done?
Hah- and she should switch to FireFox- the in-line spell-checker does wonders in the “rush.”
If she’s really worried about spelling errors she should try Firefox. It has a built in spell checker. Sadly, it doesn’t have a built in stupidity checker.
It takes a greater fool to pretend that’s what evolution is, of course.
More to the point, anyone who thinks that all of the predictions of evolutionary theory would show up in organisms quite by accident, or through deliberate malivolence on the part of their “loving god,” is an imbecile.
Of course her cribbed “points” are beneath contempt and should not have to be answered, but many were because many idiots like herself continue to bandy such BS about.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
I wonder if pointing out the flaws in her claims would be considered abusive or hate mail. Or both.
cant she just go to TalkOrigins and get her own 50 points debunked on her own (plus so many more!)? Why does she need help?
I love how she has time to blather on and on but doesnt have time to use a spellchecker.
Who is persecuting? Who is angry? I’ll never understand these people. So worried about getting into their imaginary disneyland in the sky.
PZ,
Does it bug you that people fail to address you as Dr. Myers?
Lots of people full of ‘the love of Jesus’ are absolute fucking assholes, and miserable as well.
To make the alternative claim in the face of all the evidence suggests Debra does indeed have the intelligence of a flea.
And here’s a little question for your great big fucking brain, Debs: they persecute Falun Gong practitioners in China; does that mean Li Hongzhi is just as right as Jesus?
I’m in no mood for the dipshits today.
Sorry, something happened there – don’t know what!
I think that’s an eight on the irony-meter.
Jeebus created spell check.
It’s “malevolence,” naturally, in #10.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Hello there Debra,
I must say, it’s not only your spelling mistakes that give me the impression that you do, indeed, have the intelligence of a flea.
Kind regards,
Cassandra
It’s so strange. Debra Rufini tells PZ how there’s no evidence for evolution – and then informs him that the solution is to open himself up to the love of Christ. For which, of course, there is so much supporting evidence, both circumstantial (in the improvement in moral standards it effects) and direct detection (which is why all over the world, Christians agree so well on what God’s message to us all is).
Hang on, something’s wrong there…
Sastra argued convincingly in a recent thread that to
many fundamentalist Christians, the politeness of the
presenter far outweighs the substance of the debate.
But this woman goes further than that–she assumes
that your response was intemperate, & jumps right ahead to
scolding those bitter atheists. I forget the technical
term for a syllogism with one or more premises left out.
Hey – I’m really proud of my Volkswagen Juicyfruit. The road-holding on those things is unreal.
Right on with the “kind regards” thing. As though they can spill bile for a page straight and then make it All Better with their god by blowing a little peck on the cheek at the end. It reminds me that one of my new year’s resolutions is to stop people in mid-sentence when they start something with, “No offense, but…”
Because it’s always something that actually *is* intended to offend and the person just wants to say it without getting in trouble or else wants the pleasure of insulting people but also the pleasure of thinking themselves good.
IOW, since Jesus taught us to love those who persecute (?! She must have learned from Casey Luskin that answering idiocy with sense is persecuation), she’ll say that she’s doing so, while looking forward to the great day when those she “loves” burn in hell.
It’s called ressentiment, dearie, and it demonstrates how Xianity was set up (knowingly or unknowingly) to foment the hate that it formally eschews.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
I’m guessing one of two things happened there.
1. Divine intervention by her God to keep his followers from making him look like a total jackass with idiots as followers
2. PEBKAC error
From her previous letter:
I wonder if she watched 60 Minutes last night.
I forget the technical
term for a syllogism with one or more premises left out.
Enthymeme, you’re welcome. It’s possibly also a sorites, a chain of syllogisms joined together where one or more of the (assumed) conclusions forms the (assumed) premise of the next.
Enthymeme, sorites, litotes, catachresis…you practically need a Greek dictionary to get through these creationist e-mails.
My favorite part was when she compared herself to a flat-earther.
*wipes away tear from laughing* Oh, that was good.
Wasn’t there a study about adverse effects of being prayed for?
I think she’s threatening PZ.
Not to mention paralipsis.
She’s the one who worships a jewish zombie and she’s criticizing PZ for being immature?
Wow.
Why is it when you mock and laugh at the deluded, they misinterpret it as anger?
The projection! It burns!
What is it about creationist that prevents them from using even the slightest amount of logic or rational though?
Oh yeah, religion.
But seriously, has there EVER been even one of these emails that wasn’t just dripping with logical fallicies? And, of course, you must include at least one straw man fallacy. It’s just amazing to me that when it comes to religion their brains simply stop working.
Wait a minute. My car’s being held together with chewing gum and duck tape … do you suppose … nah.
Debra, you really are wrong. Really. You’re also ineducable. Really. And you don’t know it. I’m sorry for you.
To Conelrad #21: Enthymeme.
Her original list of “50 proofs” that god is real is pretty amusing. Unfortunately they are not ranked in order of humor. There are some gems in that list:
#15
What/who knew that our hunger & thirst had to be catered for by the food & drink which we’re supplied with?
:)
@28 – RamblinDude,
” My favorite part was when she compared herself to a flat-earther. “
That’s the ticket!! We need to set up debates between the ‘flat earthers’ and other religious denominations!! :-)
Well Debra, I certainly don’t think you have the intelligence of a flea.
I mean have you ever seen a flea circus? Those little guys are amazing!
Yeah this one is a peach
#31
Quite right. Fleas know what spell check buttons are, they just can’t press them on account of being so tiny.
I resent the fact that the Kate Bush look a like, Debra Rufini, did not even bother to look at the responses to the original post. All PZ did was post the letter. But it was like dropping chum in water filled with piranhas. Damn but everyone got into the act. Debra should be directing her anger at all of us. We had fun that day going after that low hanging fruit.
We already thought she was a fool. Then she opened her mouth again and confirmed it. Debra, if you don’t want people to consider you a fool, you know what you have to do.
…or any of your other bitter friends.
Debra – actually I’m salty/sweet with a hint of musk, but that’s just an evolutionary hold-over and not terribly unpleasant. I’d let you have a taste but I see you’re already taking a licking.
Ciao babe.
I like how they describe atheists as angry because we are nothing but worm food in the end. Actually, I wish we WERE worm food in the end, concrete vaults, coffins and formaldehyde to protect the “temple” that is out body, ugh… It’s unnatural I tells ya.
But I digress.
I, for one, am not angry, or bitter or unhappy because I don’t believe in some concept of an afterlife. I just enjoy the life I have as best I can and do the best I can with it.
I’m HAPPY I’m not subjected to any silly concepts of bowing down to shy fairies.
I’m HAPPY that I know my actions are MY actions and not the pulled strings of some sadistic puppeteer.
I’m HAPPY that I can live this live in joy and relaxation and not force suffering upon myself (and others) in order to appease the deity of some Christian death cult.
I am happy knowing that I do good things because they are the right thing to do and not a checkmark on some quota system to get a second bathroom in heaven.
And, in my opinion, any religion that promises riches in the after life for being servile and suffering in life IS a death cult. Death cults that forbid suicides just like to keep the servility and suffering happening longer.
Persecution? Where?
I wonder if she feels it is persecution when someone fails a test.
If you’re wrong, you’re wrong.
Which is why I so highly recommend profanity as a safe and effective fundie-repellent: it won’t harm or react to natural or synthetic fibres, never washes off in the pool or at the beach, and needs only infrequent applications after the initial one. Personally, I haven’t been bothered by fundies in years (the only ones I encounter are here), and if y’all don’t mind I’m going to keep it that way.
So, fuck you Debra and the frontal lobe neoplasia you seized in here on. You may claim you’re not stupid, but the proof is in the pudding-for-brains you’ve got. I don’t give a shit if you accept evolution or not (though I really think you might not find it so bizarre if you actually bothered to learn what it is), as long as you keep your dumbfuck opinions out of politics. Oh, and it’s probably best if you get a trusted adult to hold your hand as you cross the street. I mention this only as a courtesy to any drivers who potentially one day might have the traumatic task of wiping your stupidity off of their front bumper. You might notice I took the time to write this comment in plain English just to make it that much harder for you to understand. What can I say? I’m a bitter atheist.
Hugs, kisses, and remedial reading courses,
Brownian
Hehe, I remember her. I tried to respond to the 50 “proofs” but by #19 I had lost all patience.
They always complain about the “anger” and “insults”, but never respond to the substance. Anyway, watch out PZ! Her response is going to come in six months.
50. was always my favorite… Con man? YES!
That’s what Extensions are for!
Anyone wishing to swim in an ocean of morons like Ms Ruffian should hie themselves to Yahoo! Answers ‘Religion & Spirituality’ topic:
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/;_ylt=ApLNr6KuPZYMxZ5yJEPHsu_d7BR.;_ylv=3?link=list&sid=396545163
This, for newcomers, is where the real problem hangs out. Staying on civilised fora like Pharyngula may give one the impression that the God-squad is at least able to think. Y!A R&S show they can’t.
Careful with the talk about a stupidity checker. Some people might think you are advocating censorship.
My favourite was this,
I also loved that “I saw a ghost” was her second proof.
Debra’s even more fun than ol’ Nick from a few posts back.
Heaven-sent!
Aww… Can we keep her, PZ?
I thought that was the entire premise of “Expelled”.
16. Most of us are born with the five senses to detect our surroundings, which we’re provided with.
She could have stopped right there. Case closed!
I was just saying that as Jesus taught us to love those who persecute us, I shall do the same. I pray for you, just as he did for those who crucified him.
Great! Since she’s a Jesus-copier, and she’s praying for us just like Jesus did for those who crucified him, and Jesus (aka God) knew all along that the crucifixion was going to happen and set it up that way… then, uh, logically that means that she knows we’re going to crucify her, even intended it to happen. So why is she complaining about hate mail? She should follow in the footsteps of her precious Savior and embrace the suffering.
Posted by: Janine, Vile Bitch | January 5, 2009 1:44 PM
Careful with the talk about a stupidity checker. Some people might think you are advocating censorship.
It is only censorship if she is forced to use it.
She has the option NOT to use it and look like a ‘tard.
#47 – bingo. I’ve been at my current address for about fifteen years now; shortly after I moved in, a pair of Jehovah’s Witnesses turned up on my doorstep at nine o’clock one Saturday morning with their young son. I was in an especially bad mood so I unleashed a torrent of abuse that would have shamed Derek and Clive – and in fifteen years, they’ve never, ever come back.
So she KNOWS it’s full of spelling errors but has so little self-respect that she sends it, a token of her ability to communicate with the written word, ANYWAY????
I’ll bet there are fleas out there with more dignity.
@ SeanJJordan #7:
No.
Your #1 is impossible. There are no genuinely intelligent arguments which could be made. Just semi-intelligent, ignorant and dishonest ones.
However your #2 is theoretically possible if tricky. As I recall, even Scott Hatfield (the most reasonable of local theists) has a slight tendency towards a form of self-deprecation when ducking out of justifying his beliefs.
Your #3 is mostly hard (probably the former condition even more than the latter one) because of who such emailers would probably have to be in order to count in your category at all.
vs.
Well, you be the judge.
For the curious, IronChariots.org has actually taken the time to respond to Debra in detail. How nice!
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=50_reasons_to_believe_in_God
Spelling ability has nothing to do with intelligence, stupid.
DEBRA: Sounds like you were the sort of child who threw a tantrum whenerver he didn’t get his sweeties.
PZ: No, you threw a tantrum when you didn’t get sweeties.
DEBRA: No! You threw a tantrum!
PZ: No, you did… to infinity and beyond! I win!
DEBRA: Shut up! Atheists are worm meat!
PZ: I know you are, but what am I?
PZ: I know you are, but what am I?
PZ: I know you are, but what am I?
DEBRA: Shut up! Shut up!
Debbie (can I call you that?), most of us couldn’t get through your bizarre claims because they were too boring. I still regard you with complete and utter ennui. Your sense of self importance is really quite amazing. People who don’t know you and will never meet you hate you bitterly? Huh? Is that normal?
If only we’d find the love of Christ, then we wouldn’t be angry and patronizing.
LOL
Spelling ability is important, it turns out. Or at least the ability to use spellcheck.
She’s clearly an idiot with a complete lack of expertise. Is anybody surprised?
I see the spelling has been changed from ‘teh’ to ‘tehy’ – but the stupid still burns.
Posted by: sILIMES | January 5, 2009
Spelling ability has nothing to do with intelligence, stupid.
But one of the signs of intelligence is using tools in order to improve your weaknesses.
I happen to be a poor speller but there is that wonderful spell checker.
“It takes a fool to believe that a randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum plus a whole load of time – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porshe!”
It takes a fool to believe that moronic ideas plus a whole lot of annoyance – hey presto; da da – results in an email worth reading.
somebody call? oh, well I’ve got BINGO anyway.
“How do you explain the paranormal, such as people witnessing positive or negative sightings,”
How do you witness “negative sightings”?
What does that even mean?
@ Janine #52:
I think we’re safe on the censorship front; the stupidity checker doesn’t prevent its users from writing or publishing stupid things. It only provides commentary as they write, such as, “Sending this email will subject you to a withering hail of logic. Are you sure you want to continue?” or “The plural of ‘anecdote’ is not ‘data.'” or “‘Goddidit’ != proof or explanation of anything.”
If gum turns into Porsches, then why do we still have gum? ANSWER ME THAT, Debra!!!!
Whew. Sorry about that. Just wanted to try “thinking” like a creationist for a minute.
I once saw my grandfather naked.
That was a very negative sighting.
Rev. Chimp, it could have been worse. It could have been Grandma…
“I saw my grandmother naked, y’all. It was like seeing a bassett hound in a shower cap.” – Jeff Foxworthy, I think
Well, it’s obvious to me Deb. Jesus hates you and your email and he was trying to stop it
Dear Debbie,
I wish you did have at least the intelligence of a flea. Fleas can be trained to perform in flea circuses, and thus display intelligence of a sort. I would have to put you in a different catagory. Asparagus comes to mind.
Kindest and loving regards,
Lee
>>Does it bug you that people fail to address you as Dr. Myers?
I won’t speak for PZ, but in my experience, PhD holders who insist on being called Doctor outside of their own field (i.e. if you’re a PhD in biology but not at a biology conference, nor speaking on biology) are class 1 asshats unless they are medical doctors, dentists, or veterinarians. This also seems to be the opinion of the majority of people I know who are PhDs.
Now, when they are operating in their field, there’s nothing wrong with it and it seems to be very acceptable. That makes sense to me, they’ve earned it.
I’ve heard that in some countries, even a baccalaureate entitles you to use the title “Doctor”.
If you are going to tear the women apart do it because she has stupid ideas, not because she made a typo. I know the dialogue here is not much more elevated than that of a shark feeding frenzy, but I don’t think it would hurt anyone here to try to raise the level of discourse.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
And that’s all I have to say about her…
These folks can’t stop humiliating themselves, can they?
And I reckon I’d be a pretty miserable, angry person with a chip on my shoulder if I believed I was a worthless sinner who was deserving of eternal torture unless I blindly followed the rules of the self-appointed dictator of the universe.
Oh, I think that means all those times when it was obviously ghosts being sighted, but no one could see them because they were invisible that day, and since ghosts are usually invisible, it proved that it was ghosts and not something else being sighted, um . . . because of jesus’ love . . . which proves evolution is wrong.
Great, now my head hurts.
Debra,
Your original list was supposed to be “50 simple proofs” that “God is real”. Unfortunately, it was only 50 reasons that you believe. For people who know the difference between a “proof” and a rhetorical question (see #9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 17-20, etc), your list was pure comedy. Please spend some time with us here so that you can work on these proofs a little bit more. Then you might win a few converts.
Rick
“It takes a fool to believe that a randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum plus a whole load of time – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porshe!”
It is obviously sane to believe that a random handful of dust plus a whole load of magical breath – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning human being!
What an excruciatingly stupid bitch. If someone scooped out the phlegmy mess currently occupying her cranial cavity – then let a pig shit in her ear – she might become capable of saying something (anything) that didn’t make her sound like someones embarrasing mother; blathering on about “MyFace” and “ringertones” to an entirely disinterested, mostly scornful audience of people who know damn well that she’s chatting a great big pile of steaming shite.
Meanwhile in Germany: if you have two PhDs, you need to be addressed “Herr Doktor Doktor Smith”.
So, let’s be clear, she’s actually saying that she hasn’t the intelligence of a flea.
On that much, I agree with her.
Have you read the post that this one references?
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”[Delos McKown]
I don’t know whether or not I remember this one.
After a while it’s just a grey haze of crazy.
Why are Christians always so angry?
All I read is:
“wah wah wah, you’re stupid, atheists are nazi’s, wah wah, [insert completely wrong example of evolution here], wah wah, you are persecuting me because I have a martyr complex, wah wah, jebus loves you, you’re going to hell, I pray for you, wah wah, kind regards…”
Wait, what? She didn’t call you a nazi? Well, as a fair minded christian, she should have. They always do.
Because they are told they need to ask for forgiveness for being born.
Point 6 from the original letter “These things which do not consist of matter are beyond the detection of science.”
I have based my career as a medical physicist and life as a person capable of sight, around the deeply held belief that science can, in fact, detect things which do not consist of matter. Debra, I find your angry persecution of my beliefs to be hateful and completely without cause. Christ teaches us to love our enemies. Fortunately I am not a Christian, you b
“… it’s not because I have the intelligence of a flea…”
I think what she’s saying is that she does have the intelligence of a flea…but that’s not what’s responsible for her spelling errors.
Sorry Debra! Something strange happened when I hit the post button and it didn’t let me finish my thought before posting :-P
itch.
RamblinDude @ 35
Wait for it…
wait for it…
It was crocoduck tape!
Yes, indeed, for a full appreciation of how staggeringly dense this person his, you have to read her “50 proofs” — 50 proof? No, it’s definitely cask-strength stupid.
“Does it bug you that people fail to address you as Dr. Myers?”
I don’t need to be called Dr., but I do prefer Professor Pablo over Mr. Pablo.
I once saw my grandfather naked.
That was a very negative sighting.
I suspect I also wouldn’t want to see you when you are naked.
@81, the doctor issue:
At a conference for dispute resolution professionals in higher ed., a seasoned Ombudsperson explained it to me succinctly:
“Well, there’s doctors, and then there’s Ph. Deities”.
I find it “interesting” and telling that she says:
“I do find it interesting that almost all athiests tend to have this angry & patronising streak in them. If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone”
after saying:
“I reckon I’d be a pretty miserable, angry person with a chip on my shoulder if I also believed that I was no more than worm meat at the end of the day.”
On the contrary, I would feel helpless and worthless if I was told I was created by a God who designed me just to be what I was, but was almost immediately disappointed in me after setting me up with another of “his” creations who unlike me was fully aware and who deceived me so then I get the blame and have to suffer for it through all my future generations.
I’m proud to be at the forefront of a group of ancestors who were successful and survived everything that nature threw at them for literally billions of years AND have personally surviving the castrating attitude and browbeating temperament of the pastors my religious family wanted to “entrust” me to. I must say, I’ve done quite well on my own without them or a deity, thank you very much. :) I sincerely feel pity for her though. I grew up amongst those like her and I can say I found them…ummmm…angry and patronising. Fancy that.
1. She can’t use a spell-checker because spells are un-Christian.
2. I had a spirit message once, a voice spoke and gave me advice while I was driving, it was pertinent, accurate and useful. It even repeated itself when I looked to be ignoring it. It involved a circumstance which I would have no way of anticipating. I followed its innocuous advice and it turned out well.
But so what? There’s nothing I can do with this event except tell people about it. It happened 18 years ago and I’ve had nothing like it since then. Sheesh, if spirits went around offering advice, you’d think they’d say things like, “Keep the kids home today, the school’s going to collapse,” rather than “Buy another loaf of bread, the cat knocked down the other one and the dog ate it.”
I don’t doubt that something happened, but I didn’t cause it, can’t repeat it, didn’t get a lot out of it (except a loaf of bread and the knowledge that the dog and cat collaborate) and it hasn’t happened since.
If premonition is a sense, it sounds like such a useful one that you’d think it would be highly developed by now. The fact that it patently is not (witness all the collapsing schools, surprise car crashes, and unsuspected Ponzi schemers) tells me that whatever it is, it sure ain’t useful.
Noni
sILIMES @82:
Raise the level of discourse to where? Zero would be an improvement. Ms. Rufini started it off at negative 250. Besides, with stupidity of this level ridicule is the only weapon worth using.
Lee Picton @80
That pale white variety that has been shielded from the sun, perhaps?
Emmet Caulfield, OM @100
Phrases like that are what get you a Molly, folks! ;)
PZ likes to get under a creationist skin. I can understand her frustration of the response being posted in here. Although even I disagree if she would have written to you as a “Flat Earth Society” representative would of been a waste of your time rather it would of been a waste of hers. Instead stand for truth, even if there are those who disagree with it.
Probably not.
I once had a porch that was held together with chewing gum…
My favorite is this:
Right. Because goodness knows, no Christian has ever been angry or patronizing. (Especially to atheists.) Believe in Christ, and foom! All that anger and patronization just flies out the window.
Now when is the 700 Club on again?
Says the person addressing me as “PZ”.
No, it doesn’t bug me at all. I even tell my students I’d rather not be called “professor” or “doctor”.
Did you really have trouble getting sweeties as a youngster?
Quite right Debra. Every good magician needs a rabbit.
And hands.
I’ve recently mulled over a personal theory held for many a long year, that intransigent religious belief is a culturally-induced, non-material ‘virus’ that infects its host after the fashion of Herpes simplex – antibodies just cannot get to it and remove it. Transmission occurs most readily between adults and any young they come into rather prolonged contact with, although fully grown human beings are occasionally susceptible.
For much of the time the ‘virus’ is quiescent or even dormant, the sufferer showing minimal symptoms. Periodically however, the disease bursts forth and irritating pustules surface. The sufferer is in a hyper-active and infectious state at this time, often without realising it and going around unconciously proselytising its spread. This is clearly what has happened to Ms. Rufini.
It is not as serious an infection, however, as that carried by gun-toting hosts of the ‘virus’ currently on the loose in the Middle East. That is brain malware of the first order.
I think that I’d like to be called doctor from now on.
My favourite bit: “…almost all athiests tend to have this angry & patronising streak in them. If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.”
Um. Who’s the patronising one now?
Anyway, the idea that it’s somehow wrong for an atheist to ever feel anger or snarkily return condescension back to its source….meh. My still-Mormon family gets to retain the right to spout off what they believe, they get to have anger, and sometimes they condescend. (My sibs try not to, and accordingly, I try to not be too snarky with them. See how that works?)
“It takes a fool to believe that a randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum plus a whole load of time – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porshe!”
Of course not – you need “presto-chango”
That bit of loving those who persecute is a bit ironic, considering that her message doesn’t seem to be filled with love, or at least some basic politeness at all. Also, I would like to get e-mails like that. ^_^
There’s just so much industrial-strength wishful thinking in her original “50 proofs” (thanks for the link @50, Fergus!), and so much projection in her screed at PeeZed that I… I don’t know where to start. Do I titter nervously, slap my forehead in disgust or go with my normal response to the religiously-challenged and simply attempt to disguise my grimace as a polite smile?
I do like the woman’s flashy turn of phrase though, so much that I might just adopt one of them as my new moniker. Hmm. “Gum Porshe”? “Angry & Patronising”? Or would I prefer “PeeZed’s Bitter Friend”?
Comic gold!
writzer @ #112:
I’ve always had trouble getting sweeties. Usually they slap me or throw a drink in my face.
The Petey #45
What he said.
But of course Christians are never angry, thanks to that marvelous love of Christ. I guess all along it was atheists who sent PZ hate mail and death threats during the communion wafer incident. Who knew?
If Debra is really curious why atheists appear angry, she might find this list enlightening.
Regarding the title issue…
My wife is a vet, and I tend to look at some of the conference proceedings. I noticed a couple of years ago that there was this tendency that those into “alternative” crap (like accupuncture) were more likely the ones to make big deals about listing all their credentials. Most of the presenters were “Dr. So-and-So”, even when (I knew) they had other advanced degrees. But the sCAM vets were always listed as, “Dr. Huckster, DVM, PhD, Society for sCAM, LookAtMeI’mSmart.”
@111,
Having the handle “Dr.” on chequebooks and driving licence comes in handy occasionally, particularly when dealing with types prone to automatic respect for “authority” (e.g. police). If I were the ghoulish type, I imagine “Let me through, I’m a doctor!” would get me a good view of an accident. With police and so on, presumably “Professor” or “Lord” would work even better. Hmm, maybe I’ll change my name to “Professor Lord Goats” – no legal obstacle in the UK, AFAIK.
#114 John M:
I’d say a religion is the “survival machine” for a colony of memes.
Self-propagation, competition for resources, heredity with variation…
Thus spake WRMartin @106:
Thank you. Actually, I think you might be on to something :o)
I’ve always enjoyed amusing expressions and turns-of-phrase, and I love to make them up, or at least try; when I see good ones, I resolve to remember them, but almost never do.
Posted by: Happy Trollop | January 5, 2009
Or would I prefer “PeeZed’s Bitter Friend”?
Great! Now I am picturing PZ in Al Pacino’s role in Scarface. “Say hello to my bitter friend!” What I am wondering is if PZ is holding a tiny atheist (DWARFS + PYGMIES) or is PZ ripped enough to carry an adult?
Sounds like Debra’s got P.Z.’s number.
Show me an atheist without anger, a patronising streak, and a generous helping of prideful self-righteousness and I’ll show you a Unitarian.
Me too. Mine was called TomTom.
Janine
Now I’m picturing PZ in a white suit with a flair collar.
I actually kinda like it. Depends on tan depth really.
Posted by: Silver Fox | January 5, 2009
Sounds like Debra’s got P.Z.’s number.
How come I am not surprised that the silly old goat is impressed by Debra Rufini?
I wouldn’t want to be called Herr Doktor Doktor Smith. My name’s not Smith.
In what way exactly?
Um humm
Rev.
I think that was just a setup for this joke.
“Show me an atheist without anger, a patronising streak, and a generous helping of prideful self-righteousness and I’ll show you a Unitarian.”
I wonder why people go to the lengths of writing out a long prose ending with “I’ll pray for you.” Surely if they had faith in their God, they wouldn’t need to say or do anything. It’s weakness on her account, a lack of faith an a self-righteous attitude that makes her think that she’s morally superior.
Silver Fox, show me a sanctimonious religious type without cognative dissonance like yourself. It would be very refreshing. And the religious never get angry. If you believe that, I have a bridge for sale….
Pablo,
I once attended a lecture by an oncologist who followed his name with the usual MD, and then every profession affiliation that he had. It took up two lines of his title slide. The funny part is that half of the titles were followed with (C), which I later found out stands for Candidate.
oh, so victims of rape should just give the rapists some hugs, blacks should just bow their head to racist treatment, women should even be grateful for misogynistic treatment, parents should just offer children to priests …. Why don’t we just abolish the justice system ?
If we cherry-pick religious books for arguments to use against our own kin, why don’t we just recognize that what we really have are theocracies and just make the bible our official Constitution ? Not parts of it, ALL of it ! oh, what do you know ! The democratic rights we theoretically benefit from were obtained in spite of religidiots and not because of them …. Gee, there were no instructions for technology and medicine in religious books …
Do we really need to reinvent the wheel for these folks ? Why do atheists have to “love their oppressors” and christians instigate against gays, blacks and women ?
Guess what, Mrs. Debra Rufini, there were times when religious texts were fully applied and those times were bad. There are still official theocracies on this planet where you would not be allowed to learn to write/to use a pc/to walk on the street because of your gender. If you can’t imagine what that would be like, check out the statistics in theocracies calling themselves democratic states and you’ll see that victims of violence and discrimination are exactly those targeted by religion. What a coincidence that religions still leave trails of victims, just like they’ve always have !
I can understand personal conversation dropping the titles, but it just seems to be common etiquette when writing to someone you have not met to use a more formal salutation including titles. Seems someone so filled with “Christian love” and who still signs with “kind regards” would have the courtesy to address you with your title. I think it is just polite to err on the side of too formal rather than too familiar. But I guess I’m old fashoined that way.
What Bill Donohue is an atheist?
If anyone has a spare comma, could they put it in my #141 after the “What”.
“Show me a Unitarian with a zealous-prejudiced streak, martyr’s complex, and hatred for facts and ‘Liberals’ and I’ll show you a born-again christian.”
This game is fun!
Silver Fox really needs to learn the difference between anger and frustration. Hearing people constantly preach a 6000 year old earth erodes one’s tolerance for stupidity.
My friends all drive Porches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
So oh Lawrd, won’t you blow me ay bauble gum Benz?
Q.What’s the difference between an angry, self-righteous Islamic militant and an atheist?
A. A Mosque
I’m guessing that Debra didn’t bother to read the comment thread in which pretty much every point she makes is rebutted, with substance. The sad thing is that insults are about the only words short enough and the only thoughts simple enough for most of these people to understand. Either that or they have a persecution fetish.
“I must say that I’m incredibly flattered that you’ve gone to all the trouble to ‘attempt’ to tackle my 50 points. One would assume that seeing as tehy were so ridiculously stupid, that you’d rather fob me off as yet just another ‘religious fool’.”
Whip me! Beat me! I am so naughty and faithful! Or else just drop everything you’re doing and rebut this list of 50 problems with evolution that I copied from somewhere.
“Spelling ability has nothing to do with intelligence, stupid. ”
Being able to compensate for it with the use of proofreading software is, though. She claims that it’s because she wrote the e-mail in a rush. Why was she in a rush? Doesn’t she know she can save a draft for later? Rash, emotional outbursts aren’t a sign of intelligence.
“but I don’t think it would hurt anyone here to try to raise the level of discourse.”
You’re as presumptuous as she is if you think we have to “raise the level of discourse” for every godbotting gadfly with an e-mail client spouting their copied drivel. There is no higher level of discourse with people like Debra. This is how they always communicate.
“Show me an atheist without anger, a patronising streak, and a generous helping of prideful self-righteousness and I’ll show you a Unitarian.”
Ah, just couldn’t keep the moral high ground from a few days ago, could you, Maxie? I suppose now you’re gonna blame us for replying.
A similar thing happens here, Pablo. Most posters are content to use either their real names or a pseudoname with some personal meaning for themselves only, but trolls have this bizarre fascination with “So there!” handles such as ‘Fly in the Ointment’ or ‘The Man Who Brought You Down’, or ‘The Physicist’ as if such noms d’écran will make up for their lack of substance. Perhaps it’s some sort of authority thing, as if we’ll be so shocked–Shocked, I tell you!–at the sheer audacity of their handle that the cognitive dissonance alone will cause some sort of revelatory conversion to their brand of stupidity. (“Wow! This guy calls himself ‘Fly in the Ointment’ and is a creationist. If I assume the ointment is the theory of evolution, then that must mean whatever he says is like a fly in that ointment. Golly! Without even reading further I’m compelled to believe he’s got some significant criticism of the theory! I’d better get myself to church to find out what other lies those atheist communist feminist ‘professors’ have been feeding me.”)
Along that line, a helpful tip for future trolls: You may call yourself ‘The King of Siam’, but if in three words or fewer it’s painfully apparent that you haven’t the foggiest where Bangkok is, all the cleverness you put into your handle will be for naught. Plus, you tend to come off with all the subtlety of James Bond wearing a sandwich board stating his MI6 affiliation. If you really want to put one over on us silly atheists–besides yukking it up with Jesus and George W. in the afterlife, of course–then put a little effort into making your handle sound authentic and compelling. Using the example above in which “The King of Siam’ immediately identifies you as a pretentious-yet-stupid troll, try something like ‘TomYumLover’ or ‘AndamanSurfer65.’ You’ll still be spared the trouble of actually having content in your post as your handle says it all, yet you’ll be less likely to set off our odour-detecting troll alarms. After all, if you’re committed to going through your life as a liar for Jesus, wouldn’t you rather be a skilled one?
Hm, maybe if I use the word “shall” instead of “will”, I’ll sound more intelligent.
(a glimpse into Debra’s thoughts)
I’m particularly fond of the concept that it probably took her longer to type the PS than it would have taken her to actually proof her work. Priorities.
Fixed that for you.
I wonder which atheist raped Silver Fox’s son.
Brownian
Admit it. My new handle commands respect.
“If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.”
Rubbish. I was as full of bitterness and anger when I was a Christian as I am now, an atheist. The only differences being that I no longer loathe myself for my thoughts and actions, and no longer live in fear that my Loving Father will punish me for those same thoughts and actions (which he supposedly created us with, after having condemned those actions as sin…let’s all give a Rod Flanders, “Yaaay!).
IANAL, nor British, after reading this… should be no obstacle whatsoever:
PhD holders who insist on being called Doctor outside of their own field (i.e. if you’re a PhD in biology but not at a biology conference, nor speaking on biology) are class 1 asshats unless they are medical doctors, dentists, or veterinarians. This also seems to be the opinion of the majority of people I know who are PhDs.
I agree with this, since I don’t ask people to call me Doctor. But you’re saying that if I did, with a PhD that took seven years of blood and sweat to earn, I would be an asshat, but a vet with a DVM wouldn’t be? HUMPF, I say unto thee. HUMPF.
Q: what’s the difference between a mendacious and arrogant Christian making a pathetic and trite false equivalence, and a bitter angry deluded moron?
A: Nothing at all…
Years ago, I met a guy with a EdD (doctorate of education) who demanded to be addressed as Doctor. If I ever bump into that sort of pompous goof again I will demand to be addressed as “Master Noodles” in return; I have a MS degree.
“I pray for you, just as he did for those who crucified him.”
How? He couldn’t exactly put his hands together, could he.
Hmm. My Poe-O-Meter’s needle twitched on that one…the part where someone, anyone, actually agrees with Debra.
…or are we still not allowed to respond to S.F.’s posts?
Raise your hand if you think a slimy little tetrapod in the Devonian era will produce a Madalyn Murray O’Hair?
Look! I’ve got my hand up.
Peter
“”I pray for you, just as he did for those who crucified him.”
How? He couldn’t exactly put his hands together, could he.”
I am so angry at myself for not thinking of that.
Brilliant!!!
Josh, don’t feel bad, chiropractors call themselves “doctor”. I’m certain you would never want anyone to assume you are one of those.
Whats the difference between scientists and christians? Scientists are required to tell the truth. Christians are required to Lie for Jebus.
Yes. What’s the difference between a bald man and a man with hair…
No, no, no, Sliver Fox.
We just learned, everything comes from gum apparently.
Silver Fox, surely praying to your God would be more effective than posting here. All you do is make Christians look bad. Don’t you have faith in the power of prayer?
Ah, the good old straw man fallacies and ad hominem attacks, these are the only weapons of the creationists. I love the way she combines both and assumes that all atheists are bitter and angry.
The projection is absolutely stunning…
The original ’50 proofs’ were so juvenile as to be pitiful…
The desperation is so tangible it is pathetic…
And it must be inconvenient to keep tripping over that scrap of IQ that she is dragging so defiantly along the ground!
What really is sad is that some folks actually listen to her and think she has intellectual gravitas…
Although I am not aware of any that have publicly defended her outdated and inane( or insane) wish list…apart from …’the Usual Retards’…
Methinks it was not quite the knock out blow she anticipated…
Probably why like a wounded animal disappointed in life and circumstance padding disconsolately back and forth in her gilded cage of ignorance lashes out at her nearest antagonizer…in this case t’was PZ a looking all innocent like while a poking her sorry carcass with the broom handle of reason !
There is such a thing as a stupidity filter: http://stupidfilter.org/demo.php
It doesn’t seem to have a firefox plugin. Also, it appears to emit a false negative in this case, no doubt due to the lack of all caps and shouty punctuation!!?1! Needs work, but at least it does exist.
Q.What’s the difference between an angry, self-righteous Islamic militant and an atheist?
A. A Mosque
Silly old goat, don’t you know that your relative, Rey Fox, shits out more intelligent shit. (Apologies to Rey, I could not resist.) Come back the next time seventeen atheists crash a plane in a building in the name of atheism.
… I reckon I’d be a pretty miserable, angry person with a chip on my shoulder if I also believed that I was no more than worm meat at the end of the day.
Well, me too. But so long as I continue looking both ways before crossing the road and eating fresh fruits and vegetables daily, I might not become worm flesh until the end of the month, maybe even the year.
I really wonder just what atheists have done to him for him to be so angry at atheists. What is it SF? Did a bad man touch you? You don’t have to hide it anymore!
So let me get this straight, if I would only find the love of Christ (presumably in my heart, isn’t that the cliche?), then I could also come to believe that randomly chewing a piece of chewing gum would result in a fully functioning Porshe? I need a Porsche. Just imagine what a randomly chewed cracker might accomplish! I am beginning to see how this works. Suspend disbelief and anything is possible as long as I shout loud enough and then feign indignation at the rebuttals. Let’s try it. Brilliant! Now, where’s my Porshe? (oh damn, it’s in my heart along with Christ’s love. Kinda stings a little too.)
Fernando Magyar@145 you now owe me a new chair, keyboard, and monitor! I was laughing so hard at your comment I fell out of my chair, knocking it sideways into the desk, which caused the moniter to topple over onto the keyboard and explode. That set the chair on fire.
Fortunately, the mouse is Ok, so I jury rigged a quick clicks-to-Morse convertor (consisting of several bits of wire, a stuffed parrot, and a really hot cup of cocoa) and am now busily clicking this reply in using my poorly-remembered Morse code. So apol– — —
Sorry, don’t know what happened there. Looks like the brownian motion generator (the stuffed parrot) fell over for some reason into the matter transporter (the hot cocoa) and garbled the dits but weirdly left the dahs alone. Anyways, as I was clicking, apologies if this makes less sense than usual.
Hey! He didn’t go to seven years of evil
medicalbiology school just to be called “Mister”!While I do not think that chewed gum with become a car, I do think that it is the building material for the silly old goat’s brain.
Q.What’s the difference between an angry, self-righteous Islamic militant and Silver Fox?
A. Their chosen book of fairy tales.
I remember Ms. Rufini’s charming little list. She just doesn’t get where the disdain comes from, and she never will. She’s just another twit who thinks “common sense” is the be-all and end-all of rational thought. Her opinions wouldn’t be worth the time it takes to type “LMAO” if not for the distressing fact that there are more like her who are far more, um, zealous about propagating their own special brand of pig-ignorant pseudo-education. Shine the light of mockery on these testaments to stupidity and foolishness. That’s where I stand on the subject. Or maybe I just need a nap.
i resent the insult
http://www.donmarquis.com/archy/
*Hey – I’m really proud of my Volkswagen Juicyfruit. The road-holding on those things is unreal.*
It’s two cars in one.
Q.What’s the difference between an angry, self-righteous Islamic militant and Silver Fox?
A. Jesus is the one true god (otherwise he is fucked)
PZ sez –
No, it doesn’t bug me at all. I even tell my students I’d rather not be called “professor” or “doctor”.
There’s only one person I address as Doctor, and that’s the Doctor.
Dinkum @ 160:
…or are we still not allowed to respond to S.F.’s posts?
You should just use Firefox’s kill filter and don’t even bother to read them. Mental masturbation should be done in private, just like the fun kind. I do wish though that people would stop quoting troll stuff in reply after reply. I really truly honestly don’t want to read that crap. I’m worm meat with finite time available to me after all.
Regarding titles, when I was a student it seems nearly all students, as far as I can remember, adressed the teachers, lecturers and professors with their first names. Everybody seemed to be entirely ok with that. I’m not sure if other universities here in Sweden have other customs or even policies though.
My current favorite Doctor
What’s the difference between a bald man and a man with hair… – Steve C.
Ah, I can answer that one! The bald man is cleverer, sexier, morally superior, wittier, and doesn’t need a comb!
Kel, last time SF was plaguing us, he admitted he was here to save our souls. He should really save his own soul by following his word and staying away as promised. SF, show us you have the manhood to remove us from your bookmarks, and stay away.
Mena, with all due respect, this thread is about making fun of trolls. In-box or In-Thread makes little difference as to which troll is getting teased. So either join in the fun, add a one-liner or hit up a blogging on peer reviewed research thread. But there is nothing wrong here.
SiLimes: “Spelling ability has nothing to do with intelligence, stupid.”
But you don’t understand SiLimes: Spelling is extremely important here. It’s the only thing they get right.
When we are dead, we’ll feed the worms
And other stuff that writhes and squirms
And if you cannot come to terms
With that–well, use your head!
There are no ifs nor ands nor buts:
Bacteria within our guts
Will start to eat us; that is what’s
In store, once we are dead.
Yes, life is short and full of toil,
And when we’ve shuffled off this coil
Our carcasses will start to spoil–
There’s nothing wrong with that.
Our share of fish or pigs or cows,
And all the chicken time allows,
Is done. It’s only fair that now’s
The worms’ turn to get fat.
Should we die young, or old and gray,
The laws of nature we’ll obey
And spend our heat in mere decay,
Replenishing the Earth;
“Three score and twelve” may be our years
For love and laughter, hope and fears
And then–mere smoke–life disappears;
No heaven, no rebirth.
And with no heaven up above
Nor hell we ought be frightened of
It’s best we fill our lives with love,
With learning, and with fun!
Don’t waste a lifetime while you wait
For halo, wings, and pearly gate–
This is your life, so get it straight:
You only get the one!
I’ll have no moment lost to prayer,
To cleanse my soul and thus prepare
For passage to… THERE’S NOTHING THERE!
Those moments, all, are wasted!
I’m only here a little time
Before it’s bugs and worms and slime;
I’ll eat and drink my life so I’m
Delicious when I’m tasted!
http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2009/01/worms-go-in.html
I kind of like Silver Fox’s comments. Nothing gets Jesus’ message of love across like being a right smarmy fucking cunt. I just wish I’d met him as a small child–would’ve saved me from fourteen tedious years as a church-going Christian.
Surely that could be done more effectively by sitting at home and praying for us. Doesn’t he have faith in God? Also, if he’s God’s representative, it shows how pathetic the religion is. Would much prefer Scott Hatfield any day.
Have to point it out again, Rey Fox pushes out more intelligent shit then Silver Fox.
Probably smell better then Silver Fox.
(Sorry about getting all scatological. SF understands nothing.)
Charlie Wagner, posting as “Silver Fox” @190, opined: Spelling is extremely important here. It’s the only thing they get right.
Throwing your morphing ass into the dungeon was as right as it gets
Sounds like a left-handed man with his head shaved.
That is sooo not true.
I need to comb my beard.
You know guys, when Silver Fox first showed up, I was skeptical.
But after he whipped out the “101 best one-liners, tautologies, and false comparisons for Creationists” book, I’ve begun to see that maybe Jesus really is the son of god and god himself, (along with the Holy Ghost), and that he had to be sacrificed for our yet to be committed sins in iron age Palestine, because of a rib-woman got tricked by a talking snake into eating a magic apple.
Had he never made that quip about spelling ability being the only thing we get right I may have never questioned my Darwinist Faith.
Thank you Silver Fox.
Well, only one right thing is exactly one right thing more than a theologian.
Why does Silver Fox hate America?
Silver Fox, why aren’t you busy praying for our souls instead of annoying us? Don’t you have faith that we are on the path God wants us to be? How dare you question the almighty?!?
Silver Fox wrote:
Nothing worth repeating or addressing.
Next?
Josh, don’t feel bad, chiropractors call themselves “doctor”. I’m certain you would never want anyone to assume you are one of those.
eewww…good point.
And noodle, I always thought Master was an awesome title if you have to have one.
Would you would like to find out “What happens when Richard Dawkins seeks therapy, but his ‘wonderful counsellor ‘turns out to be the man whom he helped place on the cross?
To purchase your copy, please send a cheque for $2.50 made payable to: Debra C. Rufini, 24 New Road East, Copnor, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO27RS, UK
She appears to be the same Debra C. Rufini who wrote Social Misfit (produced with the aid of a British Arts Council Grant)
“Debra C. Rufini is sensitive towards such matters of mental health, suffering, pain, depression, confusion, intolerance, people’s emotions and experiences. As a qualified hypnotherapist/psychoanalyst and ex-Samaritan, she truly appreciates the need for encouragement as opposed to rejection. She believes that each personality is formed through the ingredients of opinion, decision, life’s experiences and circumstances, some being more unfortunate than others. This volume should be read with concern and empathy for the victims it involves.”
CW, yet another ballless wonder who can’t stay away. If his ideas on evolution are so good, why doesn’t he write them up and submit them to Science or Nature? Or maybe he knows he’s a liar and bullshitter.
Hmm the image link above seems to be broken:
http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4995/rufinine5.jpg
The original advert appears in the “New Life” woo paper: http://publishing.yudu.com/Aap53/NL171/resources/8.htm
“Would much prefer Scott Hatfield any day.”
“Charlie Wagner, posting as “Silver Fox”
Who in the hell are Scott Hatfield Charlie Wagner?
“Josh, don’t feel bad, chiropractors call themselves “doctor”.”
I went to a chiropractor last year. The landlord at my new business location guilt tripped me into it. His wife is a woo healer of some sort.
Not only was it just as pointless and ridiculous as you would imagine, there were only two books in the waiting room. A Bible and a book on nutrition that claimed that vegetables being good for us was proof of intelligent design.
Well, I got a good deal on the lease anyway.
Wow. A major woo-nut. Shoulda seen that coming.
Scott Hatfield is a theist we respect.
Wagner is in the dungeon. I suspect your future home. Look in the dungeon for him.
Scott Hatfield is a poster here who doesn’t make Christianity look like a mental illness… so he’s the complete opposite of you.
Many years ago in when I was working for a company that set up systems for small businesses we had three chiropractors as clients.
Every single one of them was chock full of Woo and religious nonsense. Bibles, pamphlets etc..
Oh, Cuttlefish, your skill is unmatched! I remain a devoted fan of your work. That verse warmed my bitter, black, “angry-at-God” heart. My only complaint is that you composed it too late to include in my annual solstice card mailout. Oh well, I guess there’s plenty of time to send it to my Christian auntie and uncle for their Eostre-worshipping holiday!
So much for the idea that religion provides answers.
That should be either “Who in hell” or “Who the hell”, not “Who in the hell”. Jesus frakking Christ! get a grip, old man!
strangest brew @169:
This instantly made me think of the Mars rover (Spirit) with the crippled front wheel that was dealt with by instructing the rover to travel in reverse. Now I can only envision Ms. Rufini as being immobilized by a scrap of dragging IQ that requires her to travel backwards wherever she goes. Although that would give her the distinct advantage of being able to predict where she has recently been.
I just got here. Am I too late to join in the fun?
Q: What’s the difference between Silver Fox and a sackful of cat crap?
A: We might listen to what the sack of cat crap has to say.
People who didn’t convince us of the truth of christ. You on the on the other hand…
These emails are great. They definitely do follow a similar pattern.
Dearest Professor Myers,
Fuck you, you giant ignorant asshole.
With kindest respect and warm regards,
Your Creationist Friend.
Remember what, “I’ll pray for you” really means?
Yea, same to you.
Wagner is in the dungeon.
But he morphs his ass off, usually unable to resist the impulse to admit it when accused. So, SF probably isn’t CW, since CW is just not smart enough to resist an opportunity to brag that he got through PZ’s filters. SF is just as boring and pointless, anyway.
I just saw the movie “Reign Over Me” yesterday, and the traumatic stress exhibited by Adam Sandler’s character reminded me of religious people.
Basically, when confronted with evidence that can’t be dealt with emotionally, they shut it out and pretend it doesn’t exist.
I see this with some members of my family. They’re relatively liberal, definitely not fundamentalists, and they accept evolution. Yet if you lead them down a line of reasoning that will show them that there are serious errors in the Bible, or that evolution contradicts many religious teachings, they get nervous and change the subject. If you keep pushing, they get mad.
Debra is such a person, to the extreme. Any attempt at rational discourse will only drive her fingers further into her ears and make her go “LALALA” even louder.
I’ve been able to have interesting conversations with some religious people, but it seems as if the majority are unwilling to hear the other side and are perfectly happy in their ignorance.
It’s as if they know their faith will be shaken if they listen, so they don’t. It’s kind of creepy.
He Debra, Hail Thor, may he protect you and bring you to the path of the truth! I will pray for you to my Gods in the hope you will see the light before you die!
(It is always polite to return a prayer. It also pisses them off like nothing, as if I am not allowed to do what they think they can do to me.)
re: myself @ # 172: my riff on a small excerpt of Rufini’s rant has been decisively trumped at http://digitalcuttlefish.blogspot.com/2009/01/worms-go-in.html …
In the ever-growing list of Religionuts’ Bizzare Analogies, Similies, and Metaphors, this one has to be placed in the current top 10. Bravo, Debra! Well done!!
Pierce, I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone do that before.
It’s so very Meta
Ken, I think your are right. All the Silver Fox posts in this thread will be disappearing in short order. Bye-bye CW. It will be like you never existed.
Nerd: “SF, show us you have the manhood to remove us from your bookmarks, and stay away.”
The time before, I made a mistake: I treated the material here in an insensitive fashion. I’ve turned over a new leaf (no evolutionary pun intended), a New Year’s Resolution sort of speak. I am determined now to treat this material with all the respect I think it deserves. And, hopefully, that will stand me in good stead.
*216
‘Now I can only envision Ms. Rufini as being immobilized by a scrap of dragging IQ that requires her to travel backwards wherever she goes. Although that would give her the distinct advantage of being able to predict where she has recently been.’
It does make an eerie bit of sense does it not?
I rest me case m’lud!
A randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum…
That’s fascinating.
Because his same piece of chewing gum is used by Harun Yahya (of “Atlas of Creation” fame) to “prove” that there is a god (or should I say a allah?). You see, the Koran says somewhere that an embryo looks like something chewed up. Perhaps not a piece of chewing gum, but same idea. So good old Harun show a picture of an embryo, side by side with a picture of a piece of chewing gum. And they sort of look alike, so that settles it.
Seriously, I feel sorry for Ms Rufini. I’m generally not bitter or agressive; in fact I’ve been said to be rather too nice for my own good. But I must say that her 50 points are a terrible thing. Can’t she see that for herself? Can’t she learn something about what she talks so confidently? Can’t she just… you know, think?
So SF, after getting reamed the first time you stumbled in here, you got angry and now, for nothing but selfish reasons, you wish to be a dick for being a dick sake?
You truly are a model christian.
http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm
Silver Fox wrote:
Well, either that or you will provide fodder for hours of hilarity on our part as we take turns batting you back and forth like a cat does a mouse.
[Continuing the What’s the Difference Between (WTDB) game]
Q: What’s the difference between Silver Fox and a broken vacuum cleaner?
A: The vacuum doesn’t suck.
Q: WTDB Silver Fox and a dead fish?
A: The dead fish is a welcome addition to dinner.
Sorry, Quran passages don’t count as evidence that at least one religion got it right.
“hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porsche!”
That’s not the way to get a Porsche. Try religion – its a big tent. You might have to search for the answer. Take the guy who wanted a new Porsche. He went to a Franciscan and said “How do I get a new Porsche, Father?” The Franciscan said, “I don’t know what it is.” So, he goes to a Dominican and says, “Father, how do I get a new porsche?”. The Dominican said, “Say a lot of novenas and you will get a new Porsche”. The guy says to himself, “That sounds like a lot of work”. So, he goes to a Jesuit and says, “Father, I want a new Porsche, how do I get it”. “I asked a Franciscan but he didn’t know what it was, I asked a Dominican who said I should make a lot of Novenas.” “How do you think I can get one”. The Jesuit said, “What’s a Novena?”.
Ken, Nerd,
No, Silver Fox isn’t Wagner. He’s Max Something-or-other. He’s a Christard, while Wagner is an all-purpose woo-ist with a bee in his bonnett about his own “theory” of evolution. They are of course, very similar in their astonishing stupidity, smug offensiveness and general resemblance to piles of festering offal, but they can be distinguished. You need the Field Guide to Trolls and other Internet Vermin I hope to produce at some time in the future.
Speaking of the Volkswagen Juicyfruit, does anyone remember the Adobe?
At #71, Janine, the Vile Bitch wrote
Typical atheist! Using some sciencey technology like a spellchecker.
You don’t need a spellchecker! All you need is to pray to god and have faith that he’ll guide your spelling.
If god wanted us all to have perfect spelling, he would have made us that way!
And if god willed that I spell “Bizarre” as “Bizzare” in my post at #225, am I supposed to defy god’s will by using a spellchecker?!
Loike the Moirfeys, I’m not bitter
Wowbagger, you got it wrong:
The correct answer is: the sack.
SF:
Your wit is astonishing!!! Ever use Comic Sans font? That would make your posts ever so much funnier!!! And the Devonian tetrapod/ O’Hair joke – priceless!!! (I know you’ll appreciate the overuse of commas).
*facepalm*
And if god willed that I spell “Bizarre” as “Bizzare” in my post at #225, am I supposed to defy god’s will by using a spellchecker?!
But how do you know that God didn’t will you to use a spellchecker? Aren’t computers God’s creation too? (Well, ok, they’re really Babbage, Turing, Jobs, and even Gates’ (etc) creations, but whose counting?)
Janine:
“Have to point it out again, Rey Fox pushes out more intelligent shit then Silver Fox.”
So it’s damning with faint praise then, is it? You vile bitch, you.
For the confused, Silver Fox is most emphatically not Charlie Wagner. He is, in fact, another fellow who used to post here with his supposedly real name, until he was counciled by someone wise in the ways of the internets not to. He has always been a pompous ass, but seems to have now graduated to being outright combative. No smarter or more substantial, of course.
Hey KG and N of R, I was being empirical. CW would never answer, “Huh?” if confronted, so it was worth poking at it with a stick out of curiosity. Clearly, SF is just as clueless, if not as wacky, as CW. I’ll look forward to perusing that field guide, but by definition it’ll be incomplete, since all those old trolls are transitional fossils, upon being identified, they’ll each leave 2 new gaps in the record.
I think Quidam was posting the except to show that at least one religion believes we evolved or were created from something chewed… like gum.
NICE!
CT: “But I must say that her 50 points are a terrible thing. Can’t she see that for herself?”
Of course she can see that. Consider that Debra may have a slight passive-aggressive streak. You see, its point #51 that usually converts the hardest of godless hearts and she held that one back on you. Shame on you Debra. Let him have #51. Smite CT with ole #51 and be done with it.
Debra had six months to reply to the original post and yet she was rushed to write this email? Was she too busy chewing gum in hopes of getting a Porsche to respond in a reasonable amount of time? Or did she rush because she’s afraid she’ll be worm meat at the end of the day?
Inquiring minds
want to knowdon’t really care.Good one Silver.
Not only does she spell “Porsche” incorrectly, she probably pronounces it “porsh”. BTW I was helping my mom move a table the other day, and I found a piece of fossilized Bazooka, circa 1966, still affixed to its underside. I must sadly report that it had not evolved one bit (and I could really use a nice Carerra 4).
I just wanted to pop in and scare Silver Fox with my scary Arabic name.
I was confused today since SF wasn’t sounding like a total idiot of a godbot. Maybe he has turned over a new leaf, but I’m not betting the farm on it.
I really want to know what atheists have done to Silver Fox to make him so hostile. It’s not very Christian of him to act with such hate towards atheists.
Neither am I, but I’m pleased to see Steve_C has started the ol’ benefit of the doubt ball rolling. (Silver Fox’s comment #247 was pretty funny.) Let’s roll with it and see what happens.
Exist.
Just one thing: being an apparently Austrian invention, the Porsche is not a “fine […] automobile”. It’s too fast for its own build.
(Apart from being one of the more painfully obvious penis protheses in the first place.)
Chewing gum + time = Porshe
Ridiculous!
Chewing gum + time + 19 Billion USD = Chevrolet
Mister Doctor Professor PZ: Patrick Star would be proud.
“If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.”
i was brought up believing that “christ” was a swear word.
the post count in this brainless thread has just been increased by a god-fucking-almighty ONE.
“If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.”
And if you would only find a modicum of rational thinking ability, your myth would be gone.
#236: I suppose that would be hilarious, if I had any idea what a Novena is and I were well-versed in the relative stereotypes of Franciscans, Dominicans, and Jesuits.
“Hello there Mr. Myers”. Good Bond-villain salutation. I like it.
Arabic letters look kinda fancy, though I think they’d be hard to carve into stone.
燃燒傘 looks even better.
I’m angry and patronizing? This needs further examination. Is it patronizing to think this is all a pile of crap? As for angry – I was under the impression that I was happy and carefree.
How did this, uhmm…person, decide that anybody loathes her? Because deep down inside she must know this is stupid? And hers are not ideas they’re delusions.
I don’t go looking for these people because they depress me. I don’t try to convince them that they’re wrong. I never argue with them. Why must they insert themselves into places that don’t want them or agree with them. Very tiresome.
“I do find it interesting that almost all athiests tend to have this angry & patronising streak in them. If only you would find the love of Christ, and it would all be gone.”
Yep, cuz it works so well for them *rolls eyes*
Ian, novenas are special nine-day prayers used to gain special graces from God or some other such nonsense that would sound wickedly pagan if ‘God’ were substituted with ‘Earth Mother’ or ‘Eos’ or something like that. The name comes from Latin for ‘nine’ because using Latin makes theologists sound like they’re not actually just making shit up as they go along.
I got the above from a website called http://www.fisheaters.com which helps one become better acquainted with Catholic
mysticismculture andmagical incantationsrituals, including a helpful forum thread exposing the Zionist plot by Jews to persecute Catholics.At #124 KnockGoats wrote:
And imagine the fun and excitement when you’re flying somewhere and a woman goes into labor.
Flight attendant: Oh, Dr. KnockGoats! We’re so lucky to have you onboard.* Looks like a breech birth too. Here’s the medical emergency kit.
*And why does my spellchecker want me to spell the perfectly good word onboard as “on board”? When you can’t trust a spellchecker, what can you trust?
I find it ironic that someone who is complaining about others being patronising would then go on and attribute that to not having Jesus in ones heart. How much more patronising can you get?
A novena is a Catholic prayer ritual that involves a lot of kneeling, looking at the ceiling, and muttering to curry favour with a bronze-age desert war god. The Franciscans are “simple friars”, known for their poverty, work in the community, etc; the Dominicans for their orthodoxy; and the Jesuits for being intellectuals (insofar as anyone who believes in magic zombie cannibal crackers can be described as “intellectual”).
…and if I were well-versed in the relative stereotypes of Franciscans, Dominicans, and Jesuits.
Well, Franciscans bugger altar boys, Dominicans bugger altar-boys, and Jesuits bugger altar-boys. Other than that, they’re very similar.
Hmmmmm, this reminds me of a particularly intriguing rock zone we discovered a few years back in some Proterozoic shales up in Montana. The thin interval was pliable, had a waddy texture and a fresh wintergreen aroma. Being geologists we were naturally loathe to name and describe a new rock/mineral type so this data remained buried until now – I will call it Wrigleyite. Now it all begins to make sense.
Now, if only a transition type between Wrigleyite and a Porsche could be found. Heysoos I love science!
At#148, Brownian, OM wrote:
Which is why I decided to start posting as “bastion of sass” rather than “bastion” as I did previously.
I didn’t want readers to think I viewed myself as a bastion of sanity, or bastion of skepticism, or, perhaps, bastion of critical thinking.
I hope making clear I’m a bastion of sass (at least this week) might help reinforce my posting creds.
‘How much more patronising can you get?’
Well she laid on at least 50 patronizing pieces on nonsense at the start of this ka fuffle…I guess with jeebus involved it could well hit double figures is not triple dribble…
‘We cannneee handle this punishment captain…ya gonna hafta drop outta warp and jus hope the inertial dampers can take the strain’
My ex father-in-law has a PhD in history from some Christian college in Arkansas. As he is also a fundamentalist, evangelical Xtian pastor, he does not believe that dinosaurs existed (fossils were put into the earth during creation to test our faith – snort!!)
He insists that his ‘flock’ call him doctor, and even has himself in the phonebook as such.
I just use my doctor title (PhD) for restaurant reservations.
@ #39, so true. :)
Verret.
blf @175
Re: I now owe you a new chair, keyboard, and monitor!
Any chance I could just pay my debt with a stick of Wrigley’s? Heck, I’ll even let you choose the flavor.
Back when PZ originally wrote about this, Yunshui actually took the time to respond to each of the 50 points. I hope Ms. Rufini will discover that post as well.
PZ Myers wrote:
Did you forget about this Silver Fox?
Rey Fox: I’m guessing that Debra didn’t bother to read the comment thread in which pretty much every point she makes is rebutted, with substance.
How would she know? Honestly, how could she possibly recognize substance, or even the proper structure of an argument and rebuttal?
It’s like saying you “properly rebutted” a three year old, and then wonder why they throw a tantrum.
At #243 Dianne wrote:
Pfft!
Next you’ll tell me that when I’m critically ill I should go to a MD who god created to help me get well rather than pray to god to heal me.
Isaiah 53:7 “…as a sheep before her shearers is dumb…”
You know, I’m beginning to rethink that last word for “silent”…
EV: “(I know you’ll appreciate the overuse of commas).
Don’t give it a second thought, EV, I love commas. Use all the commas you want.
At #275 DebinOz wrote:
Doesn’t he know anything about Creation?!!
There’s plenty of evidence that dinosaurs existed, and they lived at the same time as humans.
Authority: Creation Museum and The Flintstones.
That was priceless! That could have been me 30 years ago, but thanks to good people challenging my mind, I came out from that world and found Reality and Happiness. Maybe this poor soul will, too.
Debra’s a witch. How do I know this? She turned me into a newt.
I got better.
Debra, I must kindly ask you to not leave your car parked near my house — it got all over my shoe, and was a real drag to remove. Ah, well, it needed an oil change anyway.
I was much worse as a christian. I was all about judgment, not love. Now I’m more live and let live… not all, mind you, but definitely more.
comments: tl;dr
I was picking my nose when I read that… and you still scared me!
ام الهول Is that with a long or a short ‘ل ‘ sound?
I wish I wrote Arabic. From just looking without understanding, I think its the most beautiful of all modern written languages. Some go with Chinese, or Japanese, but the Arabic characters just have a simple flow that catches the eye.
Russian, on the other hand, looks like someone spilled out a box of connector pieces from an erector set.
A drunk walks into a bar… you’d think he would have ducked.
@ Kim #223:
Well, even that daftness might work better (ie sometimes!) than expecting anything from the Abrahamic bunch.
Falling nicely into the car scenario she purports will happen, I saw this bumper sticker the other day:
“If going to church makes you a Christian…
does going to the garage make you a car?”
Posted by: Noni Mausa @ 105 “If premonition is a sense, it sounds like such a useful one that you’d think it would be highly developed by now. The fact that it patently is not (witness all the collapsing schools, surprise car crashes, and unsuspected Ponzi schemers) tells me that whatever it is, it sure ain’t useful.”
What if it only just recently started to develop in humans? You couldn’t expect it to arise fully formed and at full strength straight away. What if it’s an emergent property of increasing brain complexity, or something?
“I shall be deleting any abusive or hate mail I receive either from yourself or any of your other bitter friends. ”
What kind of threat is THAT?
I can’t understand how NONE of them can spell, and yet they always try to justify that. Either they were rushed, or distracted, or they didn’t read it over, or they have dyslexia, or whatever else they want to say. I don’t understand that. One of my fundagelicals said he had dyslexia and always typed in a hurry. I said “What a bad combination! Why don’t you try using Firefox, that will fix a lot of it.” He still can’t spell. What is up with that, anyway?
Also, they ALWAYS try to sound ‘kind’ while they are being great big jerks. I don’t understand how that works either. Even if you point out how rude they are, they deny it in some weird way. It is really starting to make me mad, but I know rationally that I should just ignore it.
When I was a kid I used to think about that bullshit “humans only use 10% of their brains” idea and thought hey, maybe if we did use it at 100% we could shoot lasers out of our eyes.
In order to make a viable hypothesis you can’t just say the craziest thing you can come up with. You need to propose a mechanism that it could work with. But also, you need to freaking demonstrate that an effect EXISTS that demands an explanation. Demonstrate premonition, please? Then we’ll talk about all the hypotheses that could explain it. And please, no raping physics either.
Also known as “I’m taking my ball and going home. So there. Nyah!”
“Did you forget about this Silver Fox?”
“The time before, I made a mistake: I treated the material here in an insensitive fashion. I’ve turned over a new leaf (no evolutionary pun intended), a New Year’s Resolution sort of speak. I am determined now to treat this material with all the respect I think it deserves. And, hopefully, that will stand me in good stead.”
Now I know, Kel, that you can be big about this and let bygones be bygones. That’s water under the bridge.
I was just saying that as Jesus taught us to love those who persecute us, I shall do the same. I pray for you, just as he did for those who crucified him.
When a Christian asshole says “I pray for you”, what he or she really means is “My invisible friend is going to torture you, and you deserve it.”
Christian guilt as child abuse
Leon #122
When my younger nephew was a small child he would wake up before everyone else in my brother’s family. He was the sole morning person. My brother, the quintessential Non-morning-person had the frequent experience of having his 6 year-old son shake him awake at 7 a.m. on a Sunday. With tears of fear in his eyes the little kid would shake is father awake, asking him breathlessly if he really was going to burn in the fires of hell for all eternity. You see, when awake and on his own before my brother or his wife woke up (forget about the teenage one) the youngest son would channel surf on the idiot box then inevitably stumble upon the televangelists ranting on about hell fire and damnation, etc.
At first my brother would claw his way to consciousness, then gently and kindly explain that what was on television was not real and the televangelists doubly so. But at about the tenth time this happened he replied words to the effect of “only if you wake me up this early on a Sunday again.”
Humor aside, these Sunday screeds scared the crap out of a six year old. Repeatedly.
“Also, they ALWAYS try to sound ‘kind’ while they are being great big jerks.”
Now Crystal, Don’t you think that’s a bit judgemental? ALWAYS being big jerks?; not most of the time or sometimes, but ALWAYS. Don’t you think you need to make some allowance for the occasional godbot who genuinely wants to interact with you?
@Emmet #270
At one point in the 80s, they were also suspected of being Communists/Marxists due to their creation of Liberation Theology.
Sheesh, you have no creativity. Mine’s Amelia, after the aviatrix.
translation: It’s not nice to call people names, you infant.
The irony is painful.
Lurky said,
What, even if your name is, say, Goldenberg or Schmuyle? (Bonus point for naming the piece of music I’ve just been listening to.) Must get very confusing… Oh well, I suppose there aren’t too many double doctors around; maybe they all know each other and can tell each other apart some other way.
Ah, sorry. I think teh stoopid has infected my brain. Damn you, Debra, damn you to – er – worm-feeding!
my favourite of her arguments in the first letter was the “Cheeky Cockney” argument, in which the anecdotal Londoner makes a fool of an atheist by throwing a tomato at him and denying culpability. thus = GOD!
Silver Fox, if you have turned over a new leaf, quit defending christian who scare kids. Condemn them. Or maybe you haven’t turned that leaf and need to leave. Your call.
Twin-Skies @303,
Indeed, I’d forgotten about that, but it is traditional for the Jesuits to be theologically radical (by Catholic standards): if memory serves, a few of them came pretty close to being burned at the stake by zealous Dominicans :o)
“Franciscans are “simple friars”, known for their poverty, work in the community, etc; the Dominicans for their orthodoxy; and the Jesuits for being intellectuals.”
Very good Emmet: I’m glad to see that you keep up with your clerical stereotypes. Most of the lads don’t do that anymore. They just tend to paint them all with a broad brush.
Nerd: Silver Fox, if you have turned over a new leaf, quit defending christian who scare kids.”
A plague on all cowards who abuse children. (That’s a line from Henry IV, Part I, mouthed by Falstaff.)
Oh, I feel bad for troll-feeding. However, Silver Fox, Crystal is not making a claim that godbots are always being big jerks. She says they always try to sound kind while being big jerks.
For what it’s worth, though, I think she’s mistaken. On a fair number of occasions they sound like big jerks while being big jerks.
I so enjoy reminding people that “thick as a brick” refers originally not to intelligence–though she’s right there–but to male arousal. Sweet irony!
ice
@Emmet
Maybe not burned at the stake, but they did get into hot water in other ways, such as having several of their missions being requisitioned and given to the other orders. The same thing happened here in my country during the later half of the Spanish regime – they wouldn’t return until the 1850s.
You’ve covered the three big orders, but you’re missing one more: the Opus Dei. handed over to the other priestly orders during
Someone blithers out there
What she says aint exactly clear
There’s a blog with postings most rare
Tellin’ me them idjits pay dear
It’s time we stop, eh, watch their rot
all their malarky’s not that hot
Stop, eh, watch the rot
Not an ounce of bleeding thought
“With tears of fear in his eyes the little kid would shake is father awake, asking him breathlessly if he really was going to burn in the fires of hell for all eternity.”
Steven: you needed to show that boy the movie Moonstruck. Do you remember after Nicholas Cage had cajoled Cher into going to the opera and then was trying to get her to go up with him and get in his bed. She was saying that was not right. Remember the first time she slept with him she had to go to confession and the priest told her that was a big sin. Now, Nicholas says “I don’t know what is right, life screws up our lives. All I know is I want you in my bed. I don’t care if my soul burns in hell, I don’t care if your soul burns in hell”. Of course, she goes up.
Now while this dialogue is going on, my atheist friends are yelling, “Go up Cher” nothing is going to burn in hell; you have no soul. Just enjoy a good romp.
Silver Fox has changed; sadly, it appears he’s now going to try and bore us to death with dull anecdotes.
How long can Sordid Focks keep going with the be-nice-to-atheists schtick? Bets?
I’ll put an e-ducat he’ll be godbotting by midnight sciblog time Saturaday night.
My question from a few months ago still stands. Max, what evidence do you have that the human body is “more than material”?
Who could that possibly be, I wonder?
Kel: “I really want to know what atheists have done to Silver Fox to make him so hostile. It’s not very Christian of him to act with such hate towards atheists.”
I do not hate atheists. Nor am I hostile toward them. Some of my best friends are atheists. Uh, wait, that did not come out right. I don’t have any friends. Well, lets put it this way: I know some atheists who are alright people. I think I should let it go at that.
You wrote:
Re: The Martyrdom of St. Debra Rufini.
It’s not really martyrdom when the wounds are self-inflicted.
Q.What’s the difference between an angry, self-righteous Islamic militant and an atheist?
A better question would be what’s the difference between a Muslim terrorist and a Christian. The answer is they have no major differences. They’re both insane, gullible, and cowardly. They both believe in a magic fairy, heaven, and other miracles. Their history of violence is about the same. Their fear of evolutionary biology is the same. And they’re both completely wrong about everything.
Don’t you think you need to make some allowance for the occasional godbot who genuinely wants to interact with you? – SF
Need to? No. Whatever for? There are some theists who comment here with interesting things to say, or who are amusing specimens to study, who we might choose to talk to or argue with. On all evidence to date, you don’t fit into either category. To most, and to you going on past form, “interact with”, means “preach at”.
Q. What is the difference between a Moslem fundie religious fanatic and a Xian fundie religious fanatic.
A. Nothing. They both lie a lot, think hatred is an essential part of their religion, and are prone to violence and mass murder on ideological grounds.
The Xians fundies are far ahead on body counts but the Moslem fundies are trying hard to catch up. The Xians are somewhat handicapped because the secular authorities and the majority of the population got fed up with their endless piles of bodies centuries ago and took away their armies and heavy weapons.
PS: Your trivial insults and delusional lies are boring and indicative of a dull witted mind. All fundies have lists of people they want killed. Amuse us, who is on Your List To Kill. The record holder is split among Sarah Palin and several million Rapture Monkeys. They want god to show up and kill 6.7 billion people.
Ah, but can she get economic and political predictions directly from the Lord like Pat Robertson?
Regarding Debra, here’s Captain Beefheart, from Bongo Fury:
Debra Kadabra
Say she’s a witch
Shit-ass Charlotte!
Ain’t that a bitch?
Debra Kadabra–
Haw, that’s rich!
(Ione, a rancho granny
Shook her wrinkled fanny . . . )
Shoes are too tight and pointed
Shoes are too tight and pointed
Ankles sorta puffin’ out
Cause me to shout:
Oh Debra Algebra Ebneezra Kadabra!
Witch Goddess, Witch Goddess of Lankershim Boulevard!
Cover my entire body with Avon Cologna
And drive me to some relative’s house in East L.A. (Wooden dog!)
(Just till my skin clears up)
Turn it to Channel 13
And make me watch the rubber tongue
When it comes out
From the puffed & flabulent Mexican rubber-goods mask
Next time they show The Brnokka
Make me buy The Flosser
Make me grow Braniac Fingers
(But with more hair)
Make me kiss your turquoise jewelry!
Emboss me!
Rub the hot front part of my head
With rented unguents!
Give me bas-relief!
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
(Oh, hear this!)
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
(Oh, hear this!)
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
(Oh, hear this!)
Cast your dancing spell my way
I promise to go under it
(Oh, hear this!)
Learn the Pachuco Hop
And let me twirl ya . . .
(Learn the Pachuco . . . learn the Pachuco Hop an’ lemme twirl you)
Oh Debra Fauntleroy-Magnesium Kadabra!
Take me with you . . .
Don’t you want any of these?
Yikes. Does she collect alimony from reality?
Silver Fox, the theists who survive here for any length of time put a solid clamp on discussing god/religion with the regulars. They may respond to a stranger who posts here, but they don’t go searching for reasons to mention god. Scott Hatfield, a Molly winner, is such an example.
Personally, I think you want to play a little and then start slowly godbotting. You still want to save our souls, even if they only exist in your mind.
Your wise men don’t know how it feels to be thick as a brick.
Posted by: ice9 | January 5, 2009
I so enjoy reminding people that “thick as a brick” refers originally not to intelligence–though she’s right there–but to male arousal. Sweet irony!
I will not hear the song in the same way. Eeeeewwwww!
Silver Fox #310
If you’re trying to impress me with your erudition and knowledge of Shakespeare, give it up. The nearest there to your quote is:
There’s a saying in the NFL, “you can bullshit the spectators but you can’t bullshit the players.”
This is the part I found most intriguing:
What, she used to help people in need; now she just kicks them and walks on?
Where is her email? I can’t harangue her with a witty retort without an email!!! :(
Then, what does “Thick as two planks” mean? I’ve heard Brits using it to mean stupid. Perhaps the meaning of the phrase has changed over time?
Petey [45], the threat of Hell was probably very useful in keeping servants, slaves, and oppressed peasants from taking the easy way out and ending it all.
The ’50 proofs’ should be renamed ’50 regurgitated wads of religulous rhetoric’. Christianity, like all religions, is a poor excuse for science, philosophy, history, and morality.
Uh, what do you think Debbie means by saying she’s an “ex-Samaritan.” Unless she was literally an adherent of the now barely-surviving sect of ancient Judaism, I’m baffled. Or is there something I’m missing?
:) I didn’t say it was fair!
What really bugs me is that chiroquackers get to call themselves “doctor”, at least here in Canada. A hundred asshats with PhDs in Engineering don’t make me cringe nearly as much as some guy with a “Doctor of Chiropractic” calling himself “doctor”. It’s hard to shake the image of Chiro students dancing naked and covered in woad, around a model spine while they chant “sub-lux-ashun” in a low drone.
Dear Debra,
Have you ever had a friend or knew someone with whom you had regular contact who was kind, helpful and interested in what you thought about things? And did you ever reveal to this person things about your inward self with a sense of trust? Things you might be reluctant to tell, say, your preacher? And did it ever occur to you that this person had kept your confidence? And then did you ever discover that the person in whom you had confidence and to whom you felt affection held views that were startlingly unlike your own? And still you felt well disposed toward this valued fellow human?
No?
So much for the “Love of Christ,” the “Indwelling of the Spirit,” the “Hand of God upon Your Life,” as well as, well, maturity of intellect and the attendant empathy that often accompanies it.
Dear lady, if I came to your house to remodel your kitchen you would most likely find me to be affable, courteous, attentive to your ideas and very, very neat. I would bring treats for your dog, display amazing rapport with your cat and tousle the heads of your children. I would insure that your idea of the perfect kitchen was made as real as I possibly could. You would be able to see that my interest is chiefly in turning your desires into reality and you would feel very comfortable with me making a temporary shambles of the most important room in your house. And for both of us it would be a rewarding and enjoyable relationship. Years later you would tell stories about some of the funny stuff that may have happened. So would I. At least this is my experience with most of my customers.
But. If you kept telling me that I wasn’t holding my hammer correctly; that I didn’t understand how to wire the new switches for your new lights; that If I would just close my eyes when I picked up a saw my cuts would be straighter, I would, at first smile and try to show you that I actually know how to do these things.
If you kept coming back with the same or similar bother and babble I would most likely hand you the hammer or the fish tape or the saw and ask you to show me. You would not be able to unless you had done such things yourself for mumblety years as I have.
And if, after all of the demonstration and explanation and good-natured tolerance (for I am a most tolerant man; of most things) you insisted that you knew better I would make a proposal: either you do this job yourself with your own tools or please step out of the way and don’t bother me. Should this not stop your insistence then I would likely request payment for work accomplished and start rolling up the cords and packing out the tool boxes. I go now.
Easily done in the world of home improvement. I just leave you to your own devices knowing I will not deal with you any more. It is much more difficult when the issues reach beyond your new kitchen and my paycheck. Ideas do matter. Especially ideas that reduce humanity to a cipher in some magical world plan that has only emotional commitment to support it.
The angry atheist you complain about is me after you have so completely shown your inability to observe, listen, learn from and have faith in me. After I have shown you, held your hand and guided you through the motions with detailed explanations. Actually done so. For you. To your immediate benefit in real time. But you cannot bear it.
Debra, should I ever come to your house to do a remodel or just fix a sticky door you would find me as I described above and you would find my work just a cut above what you expected. But unless you asked me straight out or started preaching at me you would never, never know that I
eat little babies like you for breakfastdon’t believe in spooks or magic.Well, there is this one bit of magic I am sort of fond of. It’s what happens when people take little care for others’ professed beliefs in favor of each others’ demonstrated deeds.
Peace, baby.
Kel: “My question from a few months ago still stands. Max, what evidence do you have that the human body is “more than material”?
Let’s see. There are people who see astral projections where the spirit floats up above the body and then I suppose it goes back down or else it would just be a dead body left. Also, I understand some people are able to see a spiritual aura around a live body. The different colors of the aura tells them what kind of shape you’re in.
Now this is evidence; its not visual hallucinations or trouble with their vision apparatus. I suspect, Kel, you’re going to hard pressed to refute that kind of spiritual evidence.
Kel, look at back issues of for an explanation. Silver Fox, you are wrong. But we expect nothing less from a godbot.
SF@340
I thought you wanted us to “be-leaf” in your new turning?
*laughs quietly behind hand*
I’ll show you a Unitarian.
A. A Mosque
Kel: you’re projecting yourself into these posts. You need to take them at face value. Try to filter out your own deconstruction.
What is offensive to atheists about Unitarians. Unitarians are not really religious, are they?
Its a simple fact of life that atheists as a matter of habit do not go to mosques.
Astral projections and auras! Gosh, James Randi had better fork over a million dollars to Silver Fox!
You ruled out hallucinations and trouble with their vision apparatus how? Show your work.
Kel, you’re going to hard pressed to refute that kind of spiritual evidence.
Kel is going to have trouble cleaning up his monitor if he was drinking while reading that sentence. What a maroon.
Post 341 appeared to lose Skeptical Inquirer, which should be looked at. I must have screwed up the coding. Time for bed.
Debra declared: It takes a fool to believe that a randomly chewed up piece of chewing gum plus a whole load of time – hey presto; da da – results in a fully functioning Porshe!
Casey Luskin botches another metaphor: He declares a bicycle to be irreducibly complex because it can’t function if you remove one wheel.
Ahhhh, do these dopes realize that ToE refers to living things?? A car and a bicycle are machines, if I’m not mistaken….
Yes, tehy were so ridiculously stupid, and she admits it.
Wow. She humbly admits that she has the intelligence of a flea, but then she preemptively denies any potential cum hoc fallacies. Maybe she’s not as dumb as she thinks she is.
Raven: “All fundies have lists of people they want killed. Amuse us, who is on Your List To Kill. The record holder is split among Sarah Palin and several million Rapture Monkeys. They want god to show up and kill 6.7 billion people.”
I hesitate responding to this, Raven, I don’t want to reinforce anything weird here, and reading this, I think a lot of people might think it borders on paranoia. Sarah Palin is out to get you. Now, that’s hard to believe. However, at the risk of adding something trivial here, that woman has one of the best pair of legs I have ever seen. In fact, looking at Sarah’s legs renews my faith in God. One look at them and you know that man alone could not have created them. I realize this is off thread but its kind of my own deviancy of sorts, I guess.
Raven: “All fundies have lists of people they want killed. Amuse us, who is on Your List To Kill. The record holder is split among Sarah Palin and several million Rapture Monkeys. They want god to show up and kill 6.7 billion people.”
I hesitate responding to this, Raven, I don’t want to reinforce anything weird here, and reading this, I think a lot of people might think it borders on paranoia. Sarah Palin is out to get you. Now, that’s hard to believe. However, at the risk of adding something trivial here, that woman has one of the best pair of legs I have ever seen. In fact, looking at Sarah’s legs renews my faith in God. One look at them and you know that man alone could not have created them. I realize this is off thread but its kind of my own deviancy of sorts, I guess.
One look at them and you know that man alone could not have created them.
Males are incapable of parthenogenesis.
Nice impersonation of a stopped clock, however.
vespara, possibly she meant that she used to volunteer for the Samaritans as another poster mentioned she might be from the UK.
http://www.samaritans.org
Actually I’m kind of brain-dead at the moment, I just had a long meeting all about unfamiliar technologies I’m using so my mind is still processing.
But in my ethereal state of consciousness I currently reside in, I see that Max Verret doesn’t have anything beyond explaining a dream. Astral projection has no scientific merit and is currently treated with extreme scepticism.
@340
You keep using that word…
Crudely Wrott, I liked what you wrote their. It was a nice comparison. Experts in their field need to be trusted. Not completely, never. When people hire contractors, they get references, or multiple quotes. They ask to see prior work. Its akin to peer review for science, if you produce good work in your field, word gets around.
As a painter, I wish you worked near me. I think we would get along grandly on remodel projects.
Nerd: “You still want to save our souls, even if they only exist in your mind.”
Well, if you don’t have a soul I don’t suppose you have anything to worry about.
Ethereally, Kel, that’s because you’re one of those types who learns for a living, probably because, like me, you haven’t managed to learn how to be stupid for a living, even though I hear it can pay pretty well under certain special circumstances.
If auras are real, two people ought to be able to agree on what colors and patterns they claim to see around the same subject. People astral projecting ought to be able to view items or messages accessible only while their spirit does a midnight creep.
In my former life as a drooling woo fiend, I thought that I could do such things, but I was not the Zombie Woof. I got better–I eventually learned how to grow a brain. Some day, I hope to be able to install a backup.
Well, if you don’t have a soul I don’t suppose you have anything to worry about.
I keep trying to sell mine. No takers. The bottom has dropped out of the market on everything, especially imaginary goods.
I pronounced from on high: “If premonition is a sense, it sounds like such a useful one that you’d think it would be highly developed by now. The fact that it patently is not (witness all the collapsing schools, surprise car crashes, and unsuspected Ponzi schemers) tells me that whatever it is, it sure ain’t useful.”
and then katkinkate asked: What if it only just recently started to develop in humans?
I have thought about that, but heck, plenty of other critters could get some use out of this ability. So if it’s possible, where is it? Bunnies, impalas, zebras, swordfish, and great big white whales could use it — also, any creatures living in the path of forest fires. We could use it. Yet it shows up as advice about needing to visit a grocery store?
Now it might be that it is as undeveloped as a planarian eye, I suppose it’s possible. But as for me, all I have is this one data point, and no idea what to do with it.
HOWEVER, a datum is a datum, and I’ll keep this one, if only as a souvenir.
Noni
No, it’s an assertion. Evidence is usually backed up by studies that support what you are saying as empirical fact. As for all that new-age mumbo jumbo, I’m actually quite well versed in what the claims are. After all, my mother is a spiritual healer. Despite there being no real evidence for it, gullible fools look to the slightest deviation from our collective understanding as proof of spirituality.
People see auras? Has this been studied? What do these auras indicate? How do people see it, what can be learnt? To jump to a conclusion without fully knowing the details is not only a breakdown in critical thinking, it’s an absolute assertion into the unknown.
Likewise for astral projections. Under what conditions did we test it? Why isn’t it simply hallucination? Has the patterns in brain activity been studied? Were the tests controlled? What factors were unexplainable in our current model of the universe?
The problem I have with those who want to say the world is more than material is that there’s no evidence behind it. The phenomena that is asserted has not undergone rigorous scientific testing, it hasn’t had a proper chance for us to even understand what is going on. It passes on the credulous nature of those who are willing to believe and before too long something that has not had the proper scrutiny or testing that is needed is used as evidence that the spiritual exists.
Can you back up your assertions with science? That’s the real challenge.
Himself:
“A plague on all cowards, say I!–Give me a cup of sack rogue!–Is there no virtue extant? (Henry IV Part I Act II Scene 4)”
It was a paraphrase of Falstaff talking to Hal. It was in respone to a challenge from Kel to denounce child abusers.
You mean you had to go look that up. If I wanted to impress you with Shakespeare I would have rattled off the To Be or Not To Be by Hamlet or the Macbeth blatter about “Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand”.
There needs to be a recurring Doctor Who villain who persistently addresses Doctor Who as ‘Mister Who’.
Can you back up your assertions with science?
Of course not. SF has offered nothing more than amateur hour cluelessness. He may as well have offered Bat Boy from the Weekly World News as evidence for the supernatural.
“… that woman has one of the best pair of legs I have ever seen. In fact, looking at Sarah’s legs renews my faith in God. One look at them and you know that man alone could not have created them. I realize this is off thread but its kind of my own deviancy of sorts, I guess.”
“if you’re right eye causes you to sin…”
Your voice to text application must be awesome.
Kel: “What a maroon.”
what’s a maroon. I hope that’s not the color of my aura. I think, from what I’ve heard, light blue is best.
I really need to proof read these things more closely. It must be the former fundie in me shining through.
Silver Fox:
huh? I thought Hal’s line was “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.”
I offered no such challenge!
Again, I didn’t say that!
what’s a maroon. I hope that’s not the color of my aura.
a href=”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8gsaDdqGzA”>What’s a maroon?
what’s a maroon. I hope that’s not the color of my aura.
What’s a maroon?
(anybody who doesn’t take advantage of the “preview” feature, apparently)
Kel: “Astral projection has no scientific merit and is currently treated with extreme scepticism.”
But what about the aura? and
What is a maroon?
Silver Fox, you are a maroon if you expect us to take your statements about auras and astral seeing as evidence seriously.
Hey, Bart Mitchell. You got the point!
I owe you a new sash brush and a box of rags. I know they’ll come in handy.
Refer to post #359
Refer to post #368 and post #370
Norm:
“like all religions, is a poor excuse for science, philosophy, history, and morality.”
Actually, its not a poor excuse, its no excuse. But, science is no excuse for religion or history is no excuse for philosophy. So, what are you saying?
Take away science, history, philosophy, and especially morality from religion and what’s left? No explanation of the world, no explanation of the past, no way of understanding, and no rules of conduct. Religion without any of those factors is simply not religion.
Anyone can quote Hamlet or Macbeth.
If you’re aiming to impress, start tossing about Cymbeline or Troilus and Cressida. No one ever studies them in high school.
Oooh, that’s a stumper. Skeptics have never seen that one before.
Kel: “The bottom has dropped out of the market on everything, especially imaginary goods.”
It is odd that you should bring that up. I’m thinking of those derivatives in the financial markets. The bottom has dropped out of them. Analysts say they were not real; they were imaginary. Yet they traded for trillions of dollars. So, it would seem that some people thought they were real.
The Silver Fox guy is about as dumb as the Debra wingnut. These people just live in some weird thought free, truth free bubble.
1. Of course Sarah Palin is out to get me and everyone else. She is a demented and not very bright Rapture Monkey. On public record as saying that the Rapture will occur in her lifetime and god will show up and kill 6.7 billion people. And that this is a good thing.
2. What paranoia? PZ gets death threats by the hundreds. Many people on this thread get death threats from fundie fanatics. I’m one of them. It turns out that death threats are felonies. The FBI told me that when I turned them over to them.
3. You aren’t even smart enough to make up your own List of People To Kill. C’mon, these days it is gays, MDs, scientists, and Moslems. Catholics and nonwhites are optional but always in the running. I guess that is why you fanatics have leaders. Below, is their list of people to kill. Rushdooney is runner up, calling for the murder of 297 million of the 300 million US citizens alive. Rushdooney, as you wouldn’t know because you are stupid, was an influential theologian who founded Xian Dominionist/Reconstructionism. Just copy one of them.
And BTW, fundies do occasionally kill people on their lists. Xian terrorism is a problem in the USA and has been for decades.
Again, I didn’t say that! Do you have me on the brain there Max?
Silver Fox:
My girl and I were waiting for a ride at a 7-11 store on the Gulf Coast one night. There was a hell of a thunderstorm going on. The store was closed so we waited under the front canopy, she sitting on the window sill and I leaning against the ice machine.
Lightning hit the store. Both of us were thrown several feet and took many, many volts.
Abandoning the store, we stood in the parking lot, in the driving rain, until our ride showed up. As we approached the car the driver’s eyes grew wide and his mouth made a big O. I opened the passenger door and he cringed, exclaiming, “You guys are glowing!”
My girl and I, who had been huddled together, looked at each other, stepped back and looked again. Sure enough! We each saw a dim green glow outlining each others bodies. Whoa, dude! What a rush.
Our bodies had absorbed a large electrical potential from a bolt of lightning. The raindrops hitting us and breaking into smaller drops within two or three inches of our bodies were fluorescing in the electrical field. We were human capacitors!
Even as we regarded each other with expressions of wonder, the glow slowly faded. We got in the car and went home. That’s it.
I got your aura.
378, I’m not Kel. You can’t use your brain for squat, can you?
Kel: “people see auras? Has this been studied”
Now all I’m telling you is this: Different people say they see it with their own eyes – eye witnesses.
If I see a monkey in my back yard, he’s there. If you come along and he’s gone or if your eyesight is so poor that you can’t see him, that doesn’t mean he’s not there or wasn’t there. You see, Kel, an absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If I saw the monkey, I don’t need you to come along and study if I saw him or not. Because of changing conditions you might well come to the erroneous conclusion that I did not see him.
If I see a monkey in my back yard, he’s there.
Fool, that was no monkey. That was Mojo JoJo!
“Boy’s got a brain like a BB in a box car.”[/Foghorn Leghorn]
Come quick! See the invisible fire-breathing giant dragon that was just right there in the corner! I just saw it!
Yes, son, sure you did.
But I did! I did see it!
Yes. You did see it.
So it was really there! You just agreed with me that it was just there.
No. I only agreed that you saw it, son.
But it was really there, wasn’t it? I couldn’t see it if it weren’t!
As far as you are concerned it was there, if only for a moment. As far as everyone else in the world is concerned you merely said you saw it. Put you in one pan of a balance and they in the other and you would lift them high, credulousness being so lacking in them.
I still got your aura.
Sarcos:
“If your right eye causes you to sin”
You are surely not suggesting that when one admires a piece of beauty in God’s creation, its a sin?
How does that old saying go: A thing of beauty is a joy forever, or however it goes.
Rhodora if the sages ask thee why this charm is wasted on earth and sky, tell them dear if eyes were made for seeing, then beauty is its own excuse for being.
Less I should be accused of being a poet, that’s from Emerson.
well, since we’re doing “battle of the quotes”:
yes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence: if your backyard was in thailand, i’d shug and say ok. if it was in norway, i’d give you a funny look and ask if you’re absolutely sure. if you were stationed at the south pole, i’d figure you have broken into the medicine cabinet…
–source uncertain, point quite sharp
Silver Fox, Who you jivin’ with that Cosmik Debris? There’s gotta be a Deepak Chopra thread over at Huffingtonpost you can play on where people won’t laugh in your face.
“By their words, ye shall know them, The Book.”
I think the Book says: By their fruits ye shall know them.
If your point is that there are demented people out there in the marketplace, we know that from the evening news or the morning newspaper. However, in all due respect, I think that is a far cry from envisioning the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse riding through our neighborhoods.
what…?
either you’re using the highlighted pronoun incorrectly, or you’re saying that claiming the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are riding through our neighborhoods is different from being a demented person :-/
. . . and now to sleep. To sleep, perchance to dream . . .
of a rational world with an aura about it, mostly at the poles and then not all the time.
People say with their own eyes have seen: ghosts, aliens, loch ness monster, bigfoot, angels, demons, spirit animals, etc. Turns out that eyewitness accounts are the worst form of evidence.
And even if people do see auras (which I have no doubt they do), what are those auras? Are they the conclusion you come across or is there a more rational explanation? Could it be that the auras are a different from of sensory perception? Could it be that the auras are problems associated with a person’s visual cortex? Could the auras be a problem with the brain’s ability to process images? Could it be a hallucination? Could it be seeing on a wavelength that most people can’t process?
That’s the problem with you calling it anything more than an assertion, because you don’t know what it is and you have no evidence for any of it. You just know that people have reported seeing auras. What about that makes the auras proof of the spiritual?
Monkeys exist, that’s a start. But if you were living in the arctic circle and you said you saw a monkey, I’d be a bit sceptical of your claim as opposed to you living in south east asia. Now lets take a more apt example: a dinosaur. If you said you saw a Tyrannosaurus Rex in your backyard, would that be proof that Tyrannosauruses are not extinct? If there was no sign of it after, no footprints, no path of destruction and no-one else saw it, would that still be proof that Tyrannosauruses are not extinct? Sensory perception lets us down all the time, people see, hear, smell or feel things that aren’t there. This is why science doesn’t work on the anecdotal. It investigates phenomena and tries to understand how and why such an event occurred. If you say “I saw an alien” and asserted “I’m not a liar therefore aliens must exist” is not proof.
But back to auras, please provide any evidence at all that the auras are spiritual in nature. Someone saying they see auras is not proof of spiritual in any way.
I’m tempted to sign a few comments as “Kem” just to mess with SF’s head.
Mary Roach writes in Stiff and Spook of actual scientific attempts to contact the world of the dead, or do something supernatural. Results: No dice.
There’s a part of the University of Virginia that studies all this woo stuff. Results: No dice.
I am nearly certain, after nearly a century of attempts that are either fraudulent * or failures, that there is nothing out there. It would take very strong evidence to convince me otherwise. Of course, it would also take very strong evidence to convince me that cold fusion was real.
Oh, and one more suggestion about the perception of auras: synaesthesia. I may even have an article somewhere that ties that effect to alleged auras. Hm.
http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/03/66770
_____________________________________
* In Spook, Mary Roach covers the Spiritualists, many of whom were utterly shameless in their table-tapping and ectoplasm-from-cheesecloth production. The book is very funny, btw; highly recommended.
I myself experienced ‘seeing’ sound as a sort of shimmery wave emanating from a person as they spoke. Obviously, it had nothing to do with the fact I was, as was often the case during that period of my life (college), stoned out of my gourd.
Obviously…
Silver Fox,
What sect of christianity are you in? Can’t be catholics, I guess. Just curious.
Or do you only believe in the New Age stuff?
Crudely Wrott (#339) :
Brilliant! I’m impressed. Way to crush your opponent with kindness.
(But should you do this face to face, I’m afraid all you’d get from her would be a spiteful frown and a “I’ll pray for you”)
Tha woman actually thought her 50 points were a gift to mankind,the kind of brilliant strike that will convince the atheists and make them see the light of (un-)reason once and for all.
Then this letter to PZ,the inability to use a spell-checker,the good ol’ creationist “why cant you respect me you angry patronising man” spiel when you refute their arguments…
Im really more and more inclined to think of religion as a mental illness,that replaces the normal cognitive functions of the brain with some uniform white noise,that kills every chance of using rationality or compute even simple problems in a logical fashion.
The shit that one spills forth is just breathtaking.
Right on with the “kind regards” thing. As though they can spill bile for a page straight and then make it All Better with their god by blowing a little peck on the cheek at the end.Seems to be SOP for christians. They get to commit as many sins as they like; and as long as they apologise before they die, they get to Heaven just as surely as if they’d never sinned in the first place.
Oh yeah, and they also think atheists don’t have to answer to anyone for their sins.
If you’re aiming to impress, start tossing about Cymbeline or Troilus and Cressida. No one ever studies them in high school. – ctygesen
I did! T&C, not Cymbeline. The only lines I can currently recall (this was 37 years ago, and I don’t think I’ve read it since):
“Take but degree away, untune that string,
And hark what discord follows.”
– Odysseus (I think), somewhere in Troilus and Crsssida
Silver Fox, I don’t worry about you saving my soul. But rather you trying to save it with the stupidity and illogic that godbots like your irrational self put out trying to do so.
Astral projections. Debunked again and again. Makes you liar, and if you lie about that, you will lie about other things. If you are deluded about that, you are deluded about other things. Get the point? Your integrity is in serious question.
Here’s todays question. What is your real reason for posting here? Be honest. Lying for Jebus is still a lie to us.
Ken Cope (#384) –
I say son, I say, ya got to be careful throwin’ ’round that pow’ful Foghorn Leghorn mojo there, son.
And speaking of the great Wisdom of Leghorn – Silver Fox, when someone starts speaking to you about auras, what they’re actually doing is trying to convince you the barnyard dog is a chicken.
I’d watch, I say, I’d watch your wallet around those kinds of people there, son.
You have to wonder about the sanity of godbots like Silver Fox. I mean, auras? Astral bodies? Does he really think anyone with the rudiments of rationality is going to be convinced by piffle like that? Where’s the evidence that these are anything more than hallucinations? The scientific studies showing that different “sensitives” see the same auras – or even the same “sensitive” on different occasions? That “astral travellers” can actually bring back information they could not have got by other means? Pffft.
Now I thought it was a razor
And a can of foaming goo
But he told me right then when the top popped open
There was nothin’ his box wont do
With the oil of Aphrodite, and the dust of the grand wazoo
He said you might not believe this, little fella
But It’ll cure your asthma too
You know, the Stupid Filter is out in beta form:
http://stupidfilter.org/main/
It just might be time.
@400
Mr./Mme. Goats:
200 whuffie points, redeemable for geek cred anywhere on the tubes. Bravo.
In Ontario, anyway it used to be: R&J in Gr. 10, Macbeth in Gr. 11 and Hamlet in Gr. 12.
I didn’t get seriously into the Bard until I hit uni and started treading the boards.
Deborah’s Reason #6: Limitations of science” you can not measure emotion, memory etc”.
Well gues what, you can. Brain MRI is being used to do just that. Brain patterns on MRI with the subject looking at an item can be reproduced and the MRI will “tell you” that the item is the same amongst the tested by the way the brain patterns map out. So, reason #6 is in the tank. Now, I we could just prove the world isn’t flat, we’d be good to go.
@Silver Fox:
You mean the auras that Randi shot down? Where the test was codesigned with the person that could “see” auras?
She did no better than chance in locating a person obscured by a panel that blocked the sight of the person but was shorter than the aura she claimed to see.
Spells, auras and magic zombie Jews. Is there nothing they can’t believe in?
I imagine these folk are the ones that always fell for the Snipe Hunt gag. Or were easy to convince that gunpowder tastes like cherries.
Pictures At An Exhibition?
LOL, yes, or Lego or something. Printed Cyrillic is very blocky. However, scripted Cyrillic can be quite pretty.
Compare: “Картинки с выставки – Воспоминание о Викторе Гартмане.” У вас есть что-нибудь получше?
With: “Картинки с выставки – Воспоминание о Викторе Гартмане.” У вас есть что-нибудь получше?
I agree that Arabic script is beautiful.
ctygesen @ 406: When I went through, it was Twelfth Night in Gr. 9, Julius Caesar in Gr. 10, R&J in Gr. 11, MacBeth or King Lear in Gr. 12, and Hamlet in OAC. Since now there’s no more OAC, they’ve probably shifted it around a bit. I believe that at my school, they were dropping MacBeth for Gr. 12, so we were one of the last classes to do it; the other Gr. 12 class was doing King Lear.
Re: #305
Having just read your comment, and not googling or otherwise cheating, I’ll hazard Mussorgsky’s “Pictures At an Exhibition.”
oh at least she will pray for you, and in the time she wrote excusing her spelling mistakes you would think she would have proof read it or inserted it into a word doc to get spell check!
Just how much chewing gum are we talking about, here? A few tens of solar masses could undergo gravitational collapse, turn into a supernova, create heavier elements, recollapse as a rocky planet orbiting a class G star; then, once life appears, it’s just a matter of waiting for German engineers to evolve so they can build a car.
are you proposing that German engineers are the goal of evolution?
Saw one little cracker that went something like this, as a malapropos (the Piet Hein variety):
First impressions can often be wrong, because light travels faster than sound.
Damn straight better be careful about tagging Foghorn Leghorn.
There’s a shit load of us chicks that aren’t going to stand for it.
Cluckhead.
@417, who knew a loudmouth rooster would upset the henhouse worse than a silver fox. I’ll just park myself on my ass and ride for the windmills now…
Bart Mitchell @290, ‘long or short ل”? That’s a new one on me. It’s my play on ابو الهول, and I thought it was pretty witty, if I say so myself.
Just saw this from a certain Debra C. Rufini:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/KeepTheGodNews/