You can live with religion, and yet starve without food; and you can live without religion and still starve without food. What is the point? Religion with starvation is only a wanton hope, but it is still decisive.
“Happy ending,” eh? HAH! Proof positive that all you atheists want are for people you disagree with to freeze/starve to death!
Davesays
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
Give a man religion and he will starve to death praying for a fish.
cthellissays
Give a man fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
Karensays
PZ, were your being sarcastic when you called that a happy ending? Because it doesn’t come across as sarcasm, and yet I can’t assume you like the idea of people dying of starvation, even starvation-by-stupidity.
Alas, the allegory is right on target. It’s frequently been observed that evangelical/fundamentalist Americans will often vote against their own economic self-interest if their chosen candidate pushes the right religion buttons. (Grinds teeth, thinking of friends and relatives who’ve done just that.)
Bart Simpsonsays
Have a cow, man.
Karellensays
Yup, a happy ending would have involved Jack rescuing his family from the brink of starvation, demonstrating to them *why* reality-based eating is better for them than supernatural tales handed down from ancestors past, and getting them (via their brush with death) to realise this for themselves and break the cycle of ignorance forever.
JoJosays
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer.
Budbearsays
Am I missing something? What’s with all the concernery (is that a word)? It’s a comic strip kids. A cautionary tale told via humor. No actual Magicbeanians were harmed in the making of this strip! There are no sacred cows. How I miss George.
Sheesh! Someone needs a sense of humor … and a hug.
JoJo: That’s funny.
Pierce R. Butlersays
Anybody want some magic beans? I’ll trade ya four of ’em for a cow, or ten for two cows! (Cows must be alive and in good health, delivered to my magic beanery during business hours; some restrictions may apply; void where prohibited by law.)
Bride of Shrek OMsays
Never seen a magic bean but I had a weird experience with some magic mushrooms once.
benjdmsays
That wasn’t a happy ending.
Michael Xsays
But you guys! You missed the best part!
The missing side story was that Bill Donohue started a letter writing campaign against the boy for having sold the beans in the first place, because, following the implicit agreement in the families tradition, the beans could only be given to someone who was going to keep them in a cupboard and gawk at them, not sell them for a cow! How insensitive! A hate crime even!
Also, when the first sibling starved and the boy called the police, no charges were pressed because the actions were based on the families faith. The boy was then smeared in the local paper. Of course.
Or did I just sap all the humor out of this?
DLCsays
And the poor sap who traded the cow for the magic beans, have we no compassion for him ? Or even Compassionate Conservatism?
[/Joke]
Thanks folks, I’m here all week!
Try the mulled wine, it’s delicious!
Wow, some of you are over analyzing this a bit much. No one wants anyone to starve or die, the comic is simply stating that some people cling to their superstitions rather than taking the logical road…any other message beyond that is just people being really anal. The point of this comic is seen when people actually prefer to pray for a sick family member rather than seek medical treatment. Your arguments can easily be turned around to say that the magic bean guy is the one who wants everyone else to starve.
Bensays
Karen,
Thanks! I’m embarrassed but still here!
Ben
P.S. ks, this is *NOT* your Ben. Different one. Mmmm hmmm.
Milk, cheese, butter, and a calf to butcher come early spring. Cows are resources.
Well. For those of us who continue to produce lactase throughout our lives, yes, dairy is yummy, but for about 70% of the world, all they can do butcher it or breed it.
eigenvectorsays
Paint Jeebus’s face on the beans; sell them on eBay; move the whole family to your new cattle ranch. DUH!
You will not find the Europeans who tell the traditional story of Jack & the Beanstalk among that 70% of the world with no adult lactase.
And of that 70%, quite a few avoid the lactase problem by making cheese and yoghurt. Butter doesn’t contain lactose anyway, and if you make that then you can use the whey to make cultured buttermilk, to drink, or feed it to pigs and eat the pigs…
Randomfactorsays
Well, of *COURSE* the family starved. Jack took their magic beans *AND* the cow away.
harvsays
They are not really dead! They will live a life of luxury in syndicated cartoon heaven for eternity! Sorta like Peanuts.
Ericsays
The comic was okay, except for the author explicitly stating both “the cow represents science” and “the beans represent religion.” If you have to point it out, it ain’t good symbolism.
LisaJsays
This was very cute! Made me laugh. And come on guys, I’m sure PZ doesn’t literally mean that people dying because they believe in magical stuff (ie. beans) is a good thing. Just appreciate the joke and let it be! :)
meliorsays
Well. For those of us who continue to produce lactase throughout our lives, yes, dairy is yummy, but for about 70% of the world, all they can do butcher it or breed it.
I guess I should expand on that. I misread LisaJ’s intent when I posted that; sorry.
There is nothing so serious that it can’t be made fun of. Sometimes that is the best way to point out the seriousness or ridiculousness of a situation, attitude or belief. Sometimes you come across situations where you either have to laugh or cry, sometimes both.
Unrelated comment: the ad on the right, with the people talking and absent a way to shut them up is really annoying. Enough that some might find visiting scienceblogs too offensive to return. Might you mention that to your overlords???
bastionsays
Why must you bovinists show such disrespect for the magic beanlievers? Why are you so mean, mocking our beans? You are hurting our feelings and the feelings of the magic beans.
Next, you’ll be throwing beans in the trash, and when you do, I hope you’re fired from your job and burn for eternity.
But we love you and will pray for your soul.
skeptsays
His whole family died. How is that a happy ending?
skeptsays
Re: Karen (#15)
“It’s frequently been observed that evangelical/fundamentalist Americans will often vote against their own economic self-interest if their chosen candidate pushes the right religion buttons.”
Voting against personal self-interest is hardly restricted to evangelicals and fundamentalists. Any time anyone votes to spend tax dollars to support programs aimed at the poor/people with certain diseases/any special needs group that they aren’t expecting to personally benefit from, they are voting against their economic self-interest. We do it anyway because we are willing to sacrifice tax dollars for the common good; you really shouldn’t say it like it’s a bad thing.
DiscoveredJoyssays
I’ve always suspected that people who practice economics rely just as much on unprovable assertions as any priest/pastor/mullah/rabbi (no intended irony or sarcasm). So the happy ending is the tale of one form of magical thinking being exchanged for another… (irony intended that time).
Thankfully the followers of one economic ‘school of thought’ don’t normally physically attack other economic schools over different interpretations of the financial cycle.
scootersays
Ben #26 Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
Cow makes milk, jack sells milk, jack buys food, jack eats food, jack puts money aside, jack buys another cow, jack opens up creamery, jack sells creamery, uses money for college, gets an economics degree.
milk-commodity-markets old fashioned stuff, even before teh internets, you must of heard about it
scootersays
skept#43 His whole family died. How is that a happy ending?
Oh stop being a goddam pessimist. You say the cemetery is half full, I say it’s half empty.
You have to learn to look on the bright side.
Confusedsays
But he only has one cow. Everyone knows that the foundation of applied economics is that you have two cows…
beelinesays
Or a cloning lab.
Ragutissays
Sheesh…it’s pretty obvious. The happy ending is Jack escaping magical thinking and making a life for himself after being disowned for thinking critically and resisting indoctrination into his parents’ Magic Beanist faith tradition.
Ben, another way for Jack to have avoided freezing/starving: note the poo in the second to last panel. Use as fertilizer for food, or dry and burn to stay warm.
JackCsays
I like it. It has me in it. Only the rest of my family hasn’t starved to death yet – they only sort of resemble it intellectually.
JC
dave ssays
Ok, it’s a funny ending rather than they all lived happily ever after. Nicely done, anyway.
However, for those demanding a happier or more realistic ending…
That winter the family was starving, and they begged Jack to give them food. So being kind and good-hearted, he gave them food from the cow. Ever after, they lived off the food from the cow, but kept their belief in magic beans and demanded that Jack keep the cow hidden away so that their faith should not be disturbed. Jack said “no can do” and they just had to put up with the big very visible cow.
Nick Gottssays
Everyone knows that the foundation of applied economics is that you have two cows – Confused
Dear Confused,
When a cow and a bull love each other very much…
uncle frogysays
well Jack traded the magic beans for a cow and was driven away from home and his family died but he did OK as a dairy farmer right?
If I remember the other part of the story a poor guy also named Jack was sent with an old cow to get food and traded his cow for some magic beans planted the beans and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
I could see why the first Jacks Dad might be a little mad .
scootersays
uncle frogy #54 and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
Yeah but that Jack married some goldigger Princess, then the bottom fell out of the gold market, so she left him, and got the goose in the divorce settlement and he starved too.
Ambigramsays
Thankfully the followers of one economic ‘school of thought’ don’t normally physically attack other economic schools
Um.
Well.
Let’s see, there was this thing called “the 20th century”…
Peter McKellarsays
Ben #26 Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
And Jack’s father said (eating a hearty steak) “How come your cow only has 3 legs?”
And Jack replied – “With a cow that good, you can’t eat it all at once”
(OK, its a rework of an old joke)
Mikelsays
I guess that happy ending what that at least one in the family figured it out and got out alive.
Joe V.says
Funny, but the “who’s father” thing made me cringe.
anonymoosesays
It has a happy ending, never fear.
The author learns to spell?
AABsays
What is missing from the comic is that Jack’s family all blamed their fate on the bad omen of losing the 3 magical beans.
Shirley Knottsays
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Put a man in fishnet stockings and *somebody* will buy him dinner…
no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
with apologies to Ron White
Kseniyasays
P.S. ks, this is *NOT* your Ben. Different one. Mmmm hmmm.
Errmm… are you talking to me?
Ben, is that you? *squints*
JJRsays
“Thankfully the followers of one economic ‘school of thought’ don’t normally physically attack other economic schools over different interpretations of the financial cycle.”
No, they hire thugs with guns and uniforms to do the dirty work for them.
such as
in Chile, Sept. 11, 1973.
Or forced collectivization in the former USSR.
or…take your pick.
JoJosays
His whole family died. How is that a happy ending?
Some people would complain if they were hanged with a golden rope.
NoSacredCowsays
Ahh but it was a holy cow.
So would it have been ok if he traded the beans for lutefisk?
Btw it was a happy ending they went to heaven didn’t they?
DIDN’T THEY????
Diannesays
If I remember the other part of the story a poor guy also named Jack was sent with an old cow to get food and traded his cow for some magic beans planted the beans and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
But the original owners of the beans were just sitting on them, not planting them and therefore starving generation after generation because they were afraid to examine their believes (beans) and discover their real use. The irony is that if they’d just had the guts to look at them more closely and use them for their intended purpose then they could have been rich. (Of course, they might also have gotten eaten by the giant, but there are alway risks in life.)
I laughed.
Oy! How long before some bozo cites the “happy ending” comment as evidence that atheists want people to freeze/starve to death?
Just in case: funny stuff!
I like that getting a degree in Economics is considered to be a happy ending.
heh the comments on that comic feature a gentleman called “Kenny” gabbling in a limpet-like manner about Pascal’s wager.
Yeahhhhhh, how could Jack live happily ever after, when his entire family had frozen or starved to death? Crap.
We can be rationalists, and still have empathy, and experience the full range of healthy human emotioons.
I’m reminded of the last words of advice my father gave me the day that I left home: And don’t come back!
Good stuff
You can live with religion, and yet starve without food; and you can live without religion and still starve without food. What is the point? Religion with starvation is only a wanton hope, but it is still decisive.
whose
Also funny
http://nationalbanana.com/#154-154
I like the “just in case”.
“Happy ending,” eh? HAH! Proof positive that all you atheists want are for people you disagree with to freeze/starve to death!
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime.
Give a man religion and he will starve to death praying for a fish.
Give a man fire and he will be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
PZ, were your being sarcastic when you called that a happy ending? Because it doesn’t come across as sarcasm, and yet I can’t assume you like the idea of people dying of starvation, even starvation-by-stupidity.
Alas, the allegory is right on target. It’s frequently been observed that evangelical/fundamentalist Americans will often vote against their own economic self-interest if their chosen candidate pushes the right religion buttons. (Grinds teeth, thinking of friends and relatives who’ve done just that.)
Have a cow, man.
Yup, a happy ending would have involved Jack rescuing his family from the brink of starvation, demonstrating to them *why* reality-based eating is better for them than supernatural tales handed down from ancestors past, and getting them (via their brush with death) to realise this for themselves and break the cycle of ignorance forever.
Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer.
Am I missing something? What’s with all the concernery (is that a word)? It’s a comic strip kids. A cautionary tale told via humor. No actual Magicbeanians were harmed in the making of this strip! There are no sacred cows. How I miss George.
Sheesh! Someone needs a sense of humor … and a hug.
JoJo: That’s funny.
Anybody want some magic beans? I’ll trade ya four of ’em for a cow, or ten for two cows! (Cows must be alive and in good health, delivered to my magic beanery during business hours; some restrictions may apply; void where prohibited by law.)
Never seen a magic bean but I had a weird experience with some magic mushrooms once.
That wasn’t a happy ending.
But you guys! You missed the best part!
The missing side story was that Bill Donohue started a letter writing campaign against the boy for having sold the beans in the first place, because, following the implicit agreement in the families tradition, the beans could only be given to someone who was going to keep them in a cupboard and gawk at them, not sell them for a cow! How insensitive! A hate crime even!
Also, when the first sibling starved and the boy called the police, no charges were pressed because the actions were based on the families faith. The boy was then smeared in the local paper. Of course.
Or did I just sap all the humor out of this?
And the poor sap who traded the cow for the magic beans, have we no compassion for him ? Or even Compassionate Conservatism?
[/Joke]
Thanks folks, I’m here all week!
Try the mulled wine, it’s delicious!
It made me think of the Heifer International program, where they talk about how a family having a goat or cow increases access to nutrition and stuff.
Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
Instead of eating the cow like he says is important and will save him, he … lives with it?
Surprised all the smart people here didn’t catch on to that. Really surprised. That was the whole basis of Jack supposedly being smarter!
@Ben (#26): Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
Milk, cheese, butter, and a calf to butcher come early spring. Cows are resources.
Wow, some of you are over analyzing this a bit much. No one wants anyone to starve or die, the comic is simply stating that some people cling to their superstitions rather than taking the logical road…any other message beyond that is just people being really anal. The point of this comic is seen when people actually prefer to pray for a sick family member rather than seek medical treatment. Your arguments can easily be turned around to say that the magic bean guy is the one who wants everyone else to starve.
Karen,
Thanks! I’m embarrassed but still here!
Ben
P.S. ks, this is *NOT* your Ben. Different one. Mmmm hmmm.
Ben #26:
Cows give milk. Didn’t you know?
Well. For those of us who continue to produce lactase throughout our lives, yes, dairy is yummy, but for about 70% of the world, all they can do butcher it or breed it.
Paint Jeebus’s face on the beans; sell them on eBay; move the whole family to your new cattle ranch. DUH!
Sheesh, some people like to get over-literal.
You will not find the Europeans who tell the traditional story of Jack & the Beanstalk among that 70% of the world with no adult lactase.
And of that 70%, quite a few avoid the lactase problem by making cheese and yoghurt. Butter doesn’t contain lactose anyway, and if you make that then you can use the whey to make cultured buttermilk, to drink, or feed it to pigs and eat the pigs…
Well, of *COURSE* the family starved. Jack took their magic beans *AND* the cow away.
They are not really dead! They will live a life of luxury in syndicated cartoon heaven for eternity! Sorta like Peanuts.
The comic was okay, except for the author explicitly stating both “the cow represents science” and “the beans represent religion.” If you have to point it out, it ain’t good symbolism.
This was very cute! Made me laugh. And come on guys, I’m sure PZ doesn’t literally mean that people dying because they believe in magical stuff (ie. beans) is a good thing. Just appreciate the joke and let it be! :)
Science. It works, bitches!
LisaJ: Yes, People really do die because of belief in magic beans.
I guess I should expand on that. I misread LisaJ’s intent when I posted that; sorry.
There is nothing so serious that it can’t be made fun of. Sometimes that is the best way to point out the seriousness or ridiculousness of a situation, attitude or belief. Sometimes you come across situations where you either have to laugh or cry, sometimes both.
Unrelated comment: the ad on the right, with the people talking and absent a way to shut them up is really annoying. Enough that some might find visiting scienceblogs too offensive to return. Might you mention that to your overlords???
Why must you bovinists show such disrespect for the magic beanlievers? Why are you so mean, mocking our beans? You are hurting our feelings and the feelings of the magic beans.
Next, you’ll be throwing beans in the trash, and when you do, I hope you’re fired from your job and burn for eternity.
But we love you and will pray for your soul.
His whole family died. How is that a happy ending?
Re: Karen (#15)
“It’s frequently been observed that evangelical/fundamentalist Americans will often vote against their own economic self-interest if their chosen candidate pushes the right religion buttons.”
Voting against personal self-interest is hardly restricted to evangelicals and fundamentalists. Any time anyone votes to spend tax dollars to support programs aimed at the poor/people with certain diseases/any special needs group that they aren’t expecting to personally benefit from, they are voting against their economic self-interest. We do it anyway because we are willing to sacrifice tax dollars for the common good; you really shouldn’t say it like it’s a bad thing.
I’ve always suspected that people who practice economics rely just as much on unprovable assertions as any priest/pastor/mullah/rabbi (no intended irony or sarcasm). So the happy ending is the tale of one form of magical thinking being exchanged for another… (irony intended that time).
Thankfully the followers of one economic ‘school of thought’ don’t normally physically attack other economic schools over different interpretations of the financial cycle.
Ben #26 Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
Cow makes milk, jack sells milk, jack buys food, jack eats food, jack puts money aside, jack buys another cow, jack opens up creamery, jack sells creamery, uses money for college, gets an economics degree.
milk-commodity-markets old fashioned stuff, even before teh internets, you must of heard about it
skept#43 His whole family died. How is that a happy ending?
Oh stop being a goddam pessimist. You say the cemetery is half full, I say it’s half empty.
You have to learn to look on the bright side.
But he only has one cow. Everyone knows that the foundation of applied economics is that you have two cows…
Or a cloning lab.
Sheesh…it’s pretty obvious. The happy ending is Jack escaping magical thinking and making a life for himself after being disowned for thinking critically and resisting indoctrination into his parents’ Magic Beanist faith tradition.
Ben, another way for Jack to have avoided freezing/starving: note the poo in the second to last panel. Use as fertilizer for food, or dry and burn to stay warm.
I like it. It has me in it. Only the rest of my family hasn’t starved to death yet – they only sort of resemble it intellectually.
JC
Ok, it’s a funny ending rather than they all lived happily ever after. Nicely done, anyway.
However, for those demanding a happier or more realistic ending…
That winter the family was starving, and they begged Jack to give them food. So being kind and good-hearted, he gave them food from the cow. Ever after, they lived off the food from the cow, but kept their belief in magic beans and demanded that Jack keep the cow hidden away so that their faith should not be disturbed. Jack said “no can do” and they just had to put up with the big very visible cow.
Everyone knows that the foundation of applied economics is that you have two cows – Confused
Dear Confused,
When a cow and a bull love each other very much…
well Jack traded the magic beans for a cow and was driven away from home and his family died but he did OK as a dairy farmer right?
If I remember the other part of the story a poor guy also named Jack was sent with an old cow to get food and traded his cow for some magic beans planted the beans and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
I could see why the first Jacks Dad might be a little mad .
uncle frogy #54 and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
Yeah but that Jack married some goldigger Princess, then the bottom fell out of the gold market, so she left him, and got the goose in the divorce settlement and he starved too.
Um.
Well.
Let’s see, there was this thing called “the 20th century”…
Ben #26 Tell me again how Jack *doesn’t* eat the cow yet *doesn’t* starve like everybody else?
And Jack’s father said (eating a hearty steak) “How come your cow only has 3 legs?”
And Jack replied – “With a cow that good, you can’t eat it all at once”
(OK, its a rework of an old joke)
I guess that happy ending what that at least one in the family figured it out and got out alive.
Funny, but the “who’s father” thing made me cringe.
The author learns to spell?
What is missing from the comic is that Jack’s family all blamed their fate on the bad omen of losing the 3 magical beans.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.
Put a man in fishnet stockings and *somebody* will buy him dinner…
no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott
with apologies to Ron White
Errmm… are you talking to me?
Ben, is that you? *squints*
“Thankfully the followers of one economic ‘school of thought’ don’t normally physically attack other economic schools over different interpretations of the financial cycle.”
No, they hire thugs with guns and uniforms to do the dirty work for them.
such as
in Chile, Sept. 11, 1973.
Or forced collectivization in the former USSR.
or…take your pick.
Some people would complain if they were hanged with a golden rope.
Ahh but it was a holy cow.
So would it have been ok if he traded the beans for lutefisk?
Btw it was a happy ending they went to heaven didn’t they?
DIDN’T THEY????
If I remember the other part of the story a poor guy also named Jack was sent with an old cow to get food and traded his cow for some magic beans planted the beans and stole a magic goose that lay golden eggs from a Giant who he killed and became rich.
But the original owners of the beans were just sitting on them, not planting them and therefore starving generation after generation because they were afraid to examine their believes (beans) and discover their real use. The irony is that if they’d just had the guts to look at them more closely and use them for their intended purpose then they could have been rich. (Of course, they might also have gotten eaten by the giant, but there are alway risks in life.)