Ok, no verse right now, I just stumbled on something I just have to ask you about. Now, I am well aware that different accents pronounce different words differently–that’s pretty much what the definition of “different accents” means. And I have no illusions that I am immune from this (a colleague has recently begun teasing me about how I pronounce “dinosaur”, a pronunciation which betrays my quasi-Appalachian roots–yes, I’m looking at you, KD).
Anyway, in pursuit of a possible children’s book (which, in this case, would be very difficult, but if possible, extraordinarily cool), I happened to think about the word “otter”. As in the animal. In casting about for rhymes, it occurred to me that there are a number of words that come close but do not rhyme… for me. But then, I wondered, might these words rhyme for others? Might my own rhymes not work for others? I really have no idea! Which is really cool, which is why I am asking you. And please, feel free to spread this around, since “regular readers” are a rare and wonderful breed (well, compared to PZ’s horde, anyway).
A) Which of the following rhyme with each other?
B) Where are you from (linguistically, at least)?
Otter
Water
Daughter
Blotter
Squatter
Slaughter
Mater
Hotter
Potter
Plotter
Cotter
Totter
Trotter
Fought’er
Sought’er
Swat’er
I will stop there, though I could continue. Are there any obvious words that should be here but are missing? I’ll put my own answers up soon–I think I have four groups here, based on the initial “O” sound and the pronunciation of the middle “t” sound…. but I don’t want to bias your answers!
It may be the fact that they’re all listed one after the other, but all of them seem to rhyme with each other for me…
I’m not sure where I’m from, linguistically; my first 10 years were in Rhode Island, the next 8ish in Texas, then 6ish bouncing between upstate New York and Boston, and since then 2ish years in Boston. When I take “what accent do you have?” tests I tend to get New England.
Nah, that’s cool… they absolutely do not all rhyme for me, but are all (or most) listed as rhymes online, which is what prompted the question!
I’m Australian, so for me the following will rhyme with each other:
daughter
water
slaughter
fought ‘er
sought ‘er
but not with the others.
The others all rhyme, except for mater.
Mater doesn’t rhyme with anything else on the list.
These are interesting examples.
I think anything involving the variants of the”a”sound will lead to rhymes for some, but not for others.
The way Australians say “impassable”may sound like “impossible” for Americans!
Another example — “surely” and “Shirley”sound quite different to me, so that rather hoary old pun baffled me the first time I heard it.
This group works:
Water
Daughter
Slaughter
caught ‘er
Fought’er
Sought’er
taught ‘er
Other group:
Otter
Blotter
Squatter
Mater
Hotter
Potter
Plotter
Cotter
Totter
Trotter
Swat’er
Shot ‘er
Spotter
Of course, for me these also rhyme:
fader
Camp Granada
English (London, but no strong London accent) and I would group rhyms as follows,
（Otter, Blotter, Squatter, Hotter, Potter, Plotter, Cotter, Totter, Trotter,Swat’er )
(Water, Daughter, Slaughter, Fought’er, Sought’er)
Mater
Even with a strong London accent the rhyming groups would be the same but the ‘t’ sounds would be silent (but in South East London every sentance rhymes because they are always suffixed with ‘innit?’)
I grew up mostly in Maryland in a family where some of the older generation – grandparents, great-aunts/uncles, etc. – had ever so slight accents (Canadian, Polish, Italian, and Scilian) when speaking English. I also spent a combined 15 years living in Europe, mostly in Southern Germany and Austria, where I spoke dialectical Bavarian/Schwaebisch and Viennese. When speaking English with non-American English speakers in a professional setting, one tends to develop a ‘neutral accent.’ So I can say all of these words in a rhyming “Dr. Suess-esque” way that would be pleasing to the ear of a child. They all rhyme to me.
I think with the sole exception of mater (though possibly only because I was unfamiliar with the word; I can’t help but read it as “one who mates”), they all rhyme to me.
I’m slightly unsure of my linguistic identity, my parents are/were midwesterners from the Detroit area, but we moved to New Hampshire when I was three, where I’ve spent the three decades since. So words like aunt and envelope have two different pronunciations which both feel equally right & wrong to me simultaneously. And I’m told I say the word anything in a funny way, for whatever thats worth.
As a Brit, with roots in north west England There are only two groups for me:
Otter, blotter, squatter, hotter, potter, plotter, cotter, totter, trotter & swat’er
And water, daughter, slaughter, fought’er & sought’er
All pronounced with hard a “T”.
Mater is the odd word out and my first reading of it was may-ter, as in “mater and pater”, but it could also be pronounced mah-ter as in “Alma mater”. Both the same word obviously, but in my mind pronounced differently.
They split into two obvious groups for me.
Otter
Blotter
Squatter
Hotter
Potter
Plotter
Cotter
Totter
Trotter
Swat’er
Water
Daughter
Slaughter
Fought’er
Sought’er
With one exception that doesn’t rhyme (for me) with any of the others, at least, not more than the very last syllable.
Mater
I’m from Norfolk, England with a mostly Southern English accent.
As a Brit who has spent most of his life in Australia I concur with zackoz. Mater is the odd man out; rhyming with ‘waiter’ it used to be a sort of upper-class English word for ‘mother’ (as in Pater and Mater – mother and father).
Where my own pronunciation clashes with most Australians is in the soft ‘a”. For example, in dance, chance, castle and plant among others, I use the ‘aah’ sound as in ‘car’ instead of ‘a’ as in ‘ant’. Oddly, Australians use the ‘aah’ in such words as ‘master’. These variations also exist within the various accents of Britain so it’s all a bit confusing really…
I’m in agreement with UK Paul (I’m also a Brit, though have lived in the US for many years).
I must say I was surprised to see ‘Mater’ (rhymes with ‘later’ – well, for me it does, although I also recall it as mah-tare when learning Latin in grammar school a very long time ago) in the list, being so obviously different from all of the others, and floored that someone actually got it to rhyme with any of the other words, let alone all of them!
Oh, but now I think about it, in the phrase ‘alma mater’, I pronounce it ‘mah-te’. I am *so* confused. Even so, mater (cf. later), mater (cf. mah-tare), and mater (mah-te) still does not rhyme with anything else in your list. For me.
What a fascinating exercise!
They all rhyme except for mater.
Linguistically, I am from the west central coast, US, in one of the pockets of the PNW which trends toward the CA vowel shift.
Pronunciation very much depends on where one lives. In my part of the US, people seem to have problems pronouncing T’s, which frequently come out as D’s. So “Otter” becomes “Odder”, which would greatly expand the potential rhymes for many American readers, but would make little sense elsewhere in the English-speaking world. And, quite perversely, it sometimes works the other way around too. D’s can become T’s, which is why some annoying sportscasters talk about “WimbleTon” instead of “WimbleDon”.
I get the same split into two groups as Paul and Kate above. (Grew up in Northern AZ, which I think is fairly “neutral” for US accents, whatever that means.)
Although to be honest, regional rhymes don’t bother me. Rather, I find it humorous and entertaining when, for instance
I’d have never been aware
rhymes with
As it is I’ll dream of her
because it just makes me think “Oh, those wacky Liverpudlians!”
I just realized, there is a pocket of Southern New England where I should include “shorter” and “sorter” as rhyming with water and daughter, where the first syllabus picks up an extra “R”, and none of the words have the final “R” pronounced.
Grew up near Chicago. For me, they fall into 2 categories: [Otter, Blotter, Squatter, Mater, Hotter, Potter, Plotter, Cotter, Totter, Trotter, Swat’er] and [Water, Daughter, Slaughter, Fought’er, Sought’er].
Regarding “mater”, I’m assuming that’s the word in “alma mater”, not the word related to “mate” (as others seem to have assumed).
I’d also put “solder” (the alloy for fusing metals) into the first category.
All but “mater” for me. I grew up in Montana, which supposedly has a neutral American accent, and now live in the Pacific Northwest. Is “mater” actually a word anyone uses other than on British costume dramas?
Another Chicagoan here and I agree with ahcuah @ 16.
Southern UK accent here:
Otter/Blotter/Squatter/Hotter/Potter/Plotter/Cotter/Totter/Trotter/Swat’er
rhyme with each other and:
Cottar/Dotter/Got ‘er/Jotter/Lotta/Knotter/Rotter/Shot ‘er/Totter
Water/Daughter/Slaughter/Fought’er/Sought’er
rhyme with each other and :
Bought ‘er/Caught ‘er/Ought ta/Quarter/Shorter/Tauter/Taught ‘er
…and poor lonely ‘mater’, all by itself, and in no way rhyming with the above.
They all rhyme for me. I currently live in the Washington, DC area but I’m originally from the mountain west (Montana, to be specific).
I had a whole reply ready to go, then I noticed that davem had done it just as I had. I’m from southern UK too, though frankly there are so many accents down here that they noticeably change from one end of the street to the other.
Group A:
Daughter, Slaughter, Fought’er, Sought’er
Group B:
Water, Otter, Blotter, Squatter, Mater, Hotter. Potter, Plotter, Cotter, Totter, Trotter, Swat’er, Shot ‘er, Spotter
For me, all words in Group A rhyme with each other, and all the words in Group B rhyme with each other; but the words in Group A don’t (quite) rhyme with the words in Group B.
I was born and grew up and live outside Atlanta. Both parents’ families go back in Georgia to before the Revolution.
Hmm… in a related incident, I noticed that “ermine”and “vermin” are not listed as rhymes, either one with the other. But when I listened to their pronunciations on dictionary.com, they rhymed perfectly for me.
I may have to actually disclose the whole shebang here, to get help from all of you.
a) Otter, Blotter, Squatter, Hotter, Potter, Plotter, Cotter, Totter, Trotter, Swat’er [assuming that’s, like, “I saw an otter/ And tried to swat ‘er]
I’ll also single ‘mater’ out as the only one that’s not even close.
b) I’m Scots, but have more of an English accent most of the time. In some Scots accents, water, daughter, slaughter, fought ‘er and sought ‘er would be closer to a rhyme.
I’ve just realised I misread the question as “which ones rhyme with otter”. So, here are the ones that rhyme with each other:
Otter, blotter, squatter, hotter, Potter, plotter, Cotter, totter, trotter, swat ‘er
Water, daughter, slaughter, fought ‘er, sought ‘er
Mater (I’m not sure if that’s may-ter or mah-ter, but either way it doesn’t fit into either other group.)
Granada and fader (it took me a second to work out that’s a version of ‘father’ and not something that fades (right?)) could rhyme with each other – the terminal ‘r’ is audible in my accent, but subtle enough to ignore – but the ‘t’ doesn’t get unvoiced, so it wouldn’t rhyme with otter even if I pronounced it ah-ter.
Oh, and things that do rhyme in my accent but you haven’t listed: yotta, terracotta, and some cheats like “gotta”, “not a” and “pot o'”.
Cuttlefish:
To my ear, all the words in your list rhyme.
Same as ahcuah @ 16 on rhyming. My own dialect’s mostly from southeastern PA, just on the outskirts of Amish country (not the Philly accent further east, and definitely not the Pittsburgh accent from out west). That was followed by roughly a decade in central Maryland (Frederick), and another decade in north central Texas (Wichita Falls).
Born and raised in the Hudson Valley of New York. These are the two rhyme groups for me:
.
Otter
Blotter
Squatter
Mater
Hotter
Potter
Plotter
Cotter
Totter
Trotter
Swat’er
.
Fought’er
Sought’er
Slaughter
Water
Daughter
What counts as a rhyme?
I’m originally from Northern Virginia. I hear/pronounce two clearly distinct vowels in the first syllable for that set: an open central unrounded vowel (otter, blottr, squatter, mater, hotter, potter, plotter, cotter, totter, trotter, swat’er) and an open-mid back rounded vowel (daughter, slaughter, fought’er, sought’er) which I think might be slightly dipthonged, moving toward a front vowel. “Water” is actually an interesting case; I think either I tend to pronounce it both ways, or I use a third vowel sound intermediate between those two, but I can’t quite tell. It feels very slightly more aligned with the “daughter” group though.
So I hear/pronounce at least two and maybe three different vowels there, but also all of those words feel like they rhyme to me even though I perceive a difference in their endings’ pronunciations. Maybe it’s because I’m used to hearing words using those vowel sounds used together in rhymes by authors for whom they were the same vowels, and so I’ve learned to group them?
Oh, and the “t” sound is the same for all of those words for me, the voiceless alveolar stop usually meant by “t”. In all cases I pronounce it without aspiration unless I’m trying to really enunciate clearly.
As a San Franciscan with a New York parent, they all rhyme to me.
Odder, wodder, dodder, blodder, squodder, slodder, modder, hodder, podder, plodder, codder, todder, trodder, fodder, sodder, swodder.
Grew up in Vermont, born in Pennsylvania.
with [a]:
Cotter
Otter
Blotter
Hotter
Mater (in slow speech I might pronounce the t in full instead of my usual flap)
Potter
Plotter
Totter
Trotter
with something closer to [ɑ] but a bit rounded…. I’d say [ɒ], but that’s what I think I say for the next group.
Squatter
Water
Swat’er
with [ɒ]:
Daughter
Slaughter
Fought’er
Sought’er
I learned to speak English in Harrisburg PA from a 3rd generation Irish mother from South Dakota and a 1st generation Danish father. I did university in Washington DC, noting some pronunciation differences among my cohorts and the cafeteria staff there. I know a little German, French, Danish, but I’m no linguist, although I find language and linguistics fascinating.
I line up with the two-group listers above. I take “mater” to be the Latin as in “alma mater” rhyming with “otter” and that group. “Odder” is almost indistinguishable from “otter” for me, which opens another set, “fodder”, etc.
Born in Mississippi, have lived in Los Angeles, Cape Cod, and various points in between, and I agree with Paul Durrant’s list @ # 9. I hear/say the first group’s “O”s as “ah”s and the second’s as “aw”s.
I’ve long had the impression that many Real Poets™ don’t give a millidamn about the details of rhyme, approximately since encountering Blake’s apposition of “eye” and “symmetry”.
All of them rhyme for me – grew up in the absolute middle midwest, but with some more southern Ozark influence.
The beginning “a” sound could be just slightly different than otter for the following, but if I were reading them as a rhyme to “otter”, I would force the similarity just a bit more and it wouldn’t sound strange or bother me any:
Water, squatter, mater, swater all have a slightly softer aaahhh
daughter, Slaughter, Fought’er, Sought’er all have slightly more of an aawwww, tongue goes down in the mouth to round out the vowel rather than staying high up
There’s also “ought’er” as in “Why, I ought’er… ”
Rotter, but that’s a bit blue, right?
Got’er
Lotter (‘I got a lotter potatoes this year”)
And thanks a lot, Kate at #4, for getting that stuck in my head.
Don’t leave me out in the forest where I might get eaten by a bear…
For me (Brit; pretty much a Middle England accent I guess, hence non-rhotic), the terminal syllable gives me pause. All the words end in a schwa – except those where the ending is a dropped-h ‘her.’ I would happily pronounce that as a schwa in the service of doggerel or in a humorous context, but I think I’d say /ɜː/ in real speech. If I were to drop the h at all, I mean.
In other respects I’d group them as Paul Durrant @ no. 9.
‘Course, it’s /ˈpeɪ.tə/ to me too so that’s a definite outlier…
These all rhyme for me. I grew up in the Northeast, Central PA. As a librarian, and a children’s librarian in previous incarnations of my working life, I’ve watched children and adults read children’s books. If they think a word should rhyme, chances are they will pronounce it to rhyme.