I might have to get someone to do an intervention to drag me away from the Muslims for Secular Democracy Facebook page…It’s so full of obstinately unreasonable (and not at all secular) people that I keep…watching…the trainwreck.
So I have to share this one thing. It’s one of many threads about Maajid Nawaz. There’s a guy called Abu Sufian who has a lot to say about all the things. Somebody else posted this frame of a Jesus and Mo:
…and there ensued a discussion of was she really nine yadda yadda. Abu Sufian spoke up:
Now I’m not denying the narrative of his numerical age at time of his marriage was 53 to a woman whos numerical age was 9, but I’m able to rationalise it because I can accept other narratives.
(1) the numerical age of the prophet (pbuh) had no bearing to any other factor.
(a) the prophet (pbuh) was the most handsome man to walk upon this earth -this was said after his marriage, so his age was over 53- plus this is in the same source that you people already agree he married a young girl who was 9 years old….would you now accept this in conjunction with what they already agree on ?
(b) he was the strongest man, to the extent that he was stronger then 10 of the strongest men in Arabia. This too is in the same source that you people agree he married a young girl who was 9 years old….would you now accept this in conjunction with what you already agree on ?
(c) there wasn’t a single sign of old age in the prophet (pbuh) be it physical, mental, biological…he was faultless in each and every way…this too in the same source that you people agree he married a young girl who was 9 years old….would they now accept this in conjunction with what you already agree on ?
(d) the young girl was fully mature and able to be a wife……this too in the same source that you people agree he married a young girl who was 9 years old….would you now accept this in conjunction with what they already agree on ?
(e) there are multiple sources for all the above points, if you agree on the narrative on his age logically you should agree on the above too because they are based on the very same source.
There you go, that’s that subject rationalised.
I was physically capable of having children at age 11. Doesn’t mean I was physically or psychologically prepared for it though.
“a woman whos numerical age was 9” … yeah… hes a fucking creep.
So is his “argument” basically, if you dont accept that she was fully matured and prepared to be a wife at FUCKING 9, then you dont accept the other things about the book and therefore you can’t accept that it even happened? Therefore isnt a problem…or something?
Because if so, thats all kinds of stupid.
Nah Nah If you say “pbuh” enough anything is made OK. . . . These assholes talk about Mo like the North Korean propaganda talks about Kim Il Sung, “He was the best at archery, horseback riding, archery while on horseback, he was also the best horse impersonator. . .”
I don’t have time to do the graphic right now, but you know what PBUH stands for, don’t you? Prophet – Bride – Underage – Handsome.
Andrew B. says
“(a) the prophet (pbuh) was the most handsome man to walk upon this earth…
(b) he was the strongest man, to the extent that he was stronger then 10 of the strongest men in Arabia…
(c) there wasn’t a single sign of old age in the prophet (pbuh) be it physical, mental, biological…he was faultless in each and every way…”
I think he’s actually describing Superman. Did the “prophet” have a weakness to kryptonite, also?
Here are earlier PBUHs:
It sounds more like he’s trying to disprove the notion that PBUH married a child than trying to rationalize the legitimacy of it. If you accept that he married a 9-year-old, then these others ridiculous facts that are taken from the same source also must be true. Since they’re not believable, neither is the fact that he married a nine-year-old. Or I could be wrong.
that’s certainly the logical reading, but all the “(peace be upon him)”s every time dude types the phrase “the prophet” makes me conclude that he’s mostly just trying to rationalize his super-awesome super-athletic prophet’s continuous child rape.
Why yes, I’d love some P(nut) BUH(tah). Yes, extra holy would be fine.
Mostly, I’m laughing at how much it all reads like bad fanfic. He’s the handsomest, and never ages and he’s strongest and bestest and everything and and all women no matter what age loved him and he had two different coloured eyes and he was smarter than Snape and Dumbledore!
He’s the ultimate Mary Sue.
Except a real Mary Sue would have to hide her face.
A. Noyd says
OMG, you’re so right.
Both of which were purple. Different, but both purple.
Y’know, this should be a meme. Mohammed Sue.
Your Name's not Bruce? says
Whether it happened or not or whether Mohammad even existed or not, we can still say if it DID happen, then what he did was wrong. We can still say that our modern, secular values are an improvement over those of the gods of the Koran and the Bible.
Pretty cool guy, totally the most handsomest superhero of North Koran and eh doesn’t afraid of anything.
Is he talking about Bill Brasky (pbuh)?
AJ Milne says
Oh, ye scoffers. Laugh if you must. Me, I’m meditating on the deep, theological questions posed, here…
(/… questions like: ‘If Chuck Norris were to fight Mohammed, who would win?’)
Iain Walker says
A. Noyd (#11):
Mohammed Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way, please.
Presumably the prophet (PBUH) must also have been the most well hung – it would surely be blasphemous to suppose otherwise.
What a load of horse shit. Thinking that all information in a given source must be accepted or rejected as a whole is simply idiotic. Does he not grasp the concept of reading a source critically? Is he ready to either reject the existence of New York or accept the truth of everything told in the Spider-man comics?
It is in fact possible to accept some claims, while rejecting others. E.g. most of the claims he mentions sound very much like the kind of crap you always say about your heroes. Andrew B. compares this to Superman and that’s not a ridiculous notion. Muhammad is, in Muslim culture, considered the perfect man. There simply couldn’t possibly be anything wrong with him. He’s the ideal example. Of course they’re going to say he was handsome and strong and could leap over buildings in a single bound (even though the buildings were generally smaller back then).
Marrying a nine year old doesn’t quite fit that schema, so it can’t be rejected on the same grounds. There are good reasons to think that Muhammad being as strong as ten men is an exaggeration, but the age of the girl seems straightforward reporting of facts.
No, you’re quite wrong. He’s describing Geoff Capes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoff_Capes
Geoff Capes is surely at least as strong as the 10 strongest Arabians. Wait a minute, wouldn’t he just have to be stronger than the strongest Arabian?
There isn’t a single sign of age in him. He looks exactly the same now as he did in Geoff Capes Strongman on the Spectrum, see? http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Sinclair_ZX_Spectrum/Title/big/Geoff_Capes_Strongman_-_1985_-_Martech_Games.jpg
His age is presumably a number and as you can plainly see, he is the most handsome man to walk the Earth.
OK, even I don’t know where I’m going with this, except to say that Geoff Capes has the exact same mystical qualities as does the Prophet (pbuh) but has never seen fit – as far as I know – to marry or have sex with children. And he was in at least one video game.
We need to make better decisions about who we make religions about.
Acolyte of Sagan says
So does he look exactly the same as he did at birth? Or even at conception? Which of course raises the question: if he never ages then logically he’d be immortal. So how did he come to die?
A strange argument for sure. ‘You’re not allowed to call him a paedophile unless you accept he was a superhuman.’
I wonder whether Sufian would consider it acceptable if a very strong and handsome man of, let’s say, 25 was to have sex with a 9 year old. Would it be ok if they were married and if she was mature for 9? Because by his reasoning it would be fine.