Today was National Ask an Atheist Day. The Secular Student Union at the University of Washington had a table out on Red Square. The result? We had seven people sign up for our mailing list. Two white haired, bearded professors laughed and gave us fist bumps. One guy asked what our favorite food was.
Guess Seattle doesn’t have much to ask atheists.
But Virginia Tech’s day wasn’t so peaceful:
Virginia Tech Police were called to the Drillfield Wednesday afternoon following a report of a student stabbing his own hand with a pen.
Police were called at 1:19 p.m. by a 911 call from a witness at the scene.
Alexander M. Huppert, a freshman university studies major, then assaulted an officer who approached to check his welfare, according to a police press release. After a short struggle with the officer and several witnesses, he was taken into custody.
The incident took place near a table promoting a local version of “Ask an Atheist Day.” The student group Freethinkers at Virginia Tech sponsored the table.
Witnesses said Huppert stood near the table for nearly an hour. Approaching the table, Huppert borrowed a pen and drew a circle with a cross inside on the back of his hand.
Nicole Schrand, a senior psychology major, said Huppert then asked students at the table to stab him in the cross with the pen to “prove to us God existed.” The students declined.
“We don’t believe in assaulting people,” Schrand said. “We’re very against assaulting people.”
Huppert then asked for the pen back, a request Schrand and other students declined. Seeing another pen, Huppert grabbed it and began stabbing himself in the back of the hand.
…WTF?
You want something to talk about, go to where the crazies are. Seattle won’t fit that bill unless all the coffee in the city limits vanished overnight.
Seattle is used to atheists. Virginia, not so much.
This is unfortunate on a lot of levels.. mostly though because this man may be suffering from some sort of mental health issue that is onsetting in his young-adulthood, possibly psychotic in nature. I hope he gets the proper kind of help..
Reminds me of my first face-to-face run in with a teabagger, which occurred while I was tabling for a student group. No violence or Jesus-mentions, but we did get a lot of lectures of Jefferson and the Montana constitution for some reason.
Sounds like garden variety mental illness to me. The fact it happened in Virginia may just be a random correlation.
eeek.
Ah, proof of god’s existance number 382: Stabbing Myself in the Hand with a Pen. A true classic.But on a more serious note, this story is more sad than it is humorous. The young man in question almost certainly has mental issues of some sort. And I’m sure that instead of directing this young man to the proper mental health providers, his church viewed his experiences and psychoses as visits from god.
I need to re-relocate to Portland…southern Oregon is teeming with these fundy whackjobs.
I was one of the students who was at the table and assiste the cops. We were really looking for better press than this. All we wanted was friendly dialog…
I don’t think anyone can blame you guys for what some unbalanced guy did :
Still it would have been much better to have a slightly more positive article in the CT…
Yeah, it kind of blows, which is an understatement. I’m sorry that you guys had your event ruined like that. I can only imagine how disappointing it is…
We were really just glad the incident was handled as nonviolently as it was. I would still say the event was very sucsessful otherwise.
Definitely. Great job handling it with cool heads!
The only question I got was from a close friend asking me to describe the consistency of my poop. Well, at least no one asked me to stab them!
Today was Ask an Atheist day? I didn’t know. o_O Man, that’s the problem with being a non-theist. I don’t have a weekly Not Church meeting to go to where I get to Not Pray with a bunch of people and find out about community events. XDIt’s a pity the VT people’s event had to get tainted by some psycho’s outburst. I’ll bet it gave people a lot of questions to ask them, though. ;)
Wow. I certainly hope they don’t just lock the guy up. He sounds like he truly needs help. If he doesn’t get it, he may do irreparable harm to himself and/or others.
Wow. weird. hope the guy get some help. Sorry your day was dull Jen. I didn’t make out to Red Square, and I wanted to.
uh…Stab my hand therefore god?What did he even expect to happen?
“The release said that while in custody Huppert broke out a police car window and assaulted two other officers. None of the officers’ injuries required medical attention, and no other individuals were injured during the incident.”So after being arrested he went more batshit crazy, and is now spending the night in jail. I guess he never met an atheist before.Ask An Atheist day should happen every week. Studies show that people are more accepting of atheists as the number of out atheists increases and as they meet atheists themselves. Sometimes crazy things like this will happen but after a while the religious will be more like “more atheists; meh”. Actually it sounds like this event served a very important function – to take an unstable person out of the college environment before they go wacko and possibly pull another Cho.
I’m part of VT freethinkers, but I wasn’t there when the hand stabbing happened. Look at the comments on the Collegiate Times story and how our freethinkers are turning this negative publicity into a positive message – a call for polite dialog between Christians and athiests on our campus. I’ve been a part of this group for several years now, and I’ve seen it come and go. We have the most vibrant group ever this year, with excellent freshman/sophomores in leadership – a sign that we’ll be around for a while. The club has dissolved in past years since our officers were all graduating seniors / grad students. More people than ever are attending now. As we grow on a campus as religious as this one, the crazies might come out. But the positive message is that we are here, we are growing, and we are having a largely positive dialog with the religious community!
P.S. Jen – come speak to our group some time! We have several fans of yours in the club.
Either he thought he had a faith bonus +4 to AC, or he was trying to convince people with his impressive dedication. He isn’t necessarily much more insane than other believers.
WTF is a “university studies” major is my question.
Well, obviously, since he was really Jesus in disguise, he would then ask you to feel inside the hole in his hand. And just like doubting Thomas, the atheists would open their eyes and proclaim “My Lord and my God!” Because a guy with holes in his hand means god exists.
I still think it’s amazing that we atheists appear to outdo both society and large and religious organizations when it comes to ridiculing the mentally ill (and worse: I’ve certainly heard, more than once, the progression from “they should be taken off the streets” to “we shouldn’t let them breed” and finally to “I’d rather be dead than have that kind of issue”, or less charitable euthanasia proposals).We’ll see what happens to the assault charges, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the result were actually a reprimand for the police officers: when you approach a man injuring himself, it’s not usually too much to expect that you would protect yourself.And the reaction is calling him names? He stabbed himself and, it seems, the police intervened so carelessly that further injuries resulted (including one “under custody”?! When a person in police custody who must reasonably be assumed to be a suicide risk breaks a car window, the problem isn’t property damage, it’s dangerous neglect for the prisoner’s safety). He didn’t attempt to kill random people (which is not behavior restricted to, or even correlated with, mental illness): it seems likely that he had a health crisis in public.You’ve got to pick your poison: either you decide to act like he was mentally ill, in which case blaming him for what happened is as primitive and disgusting as insulting those with physical disabilities (“I’m so sorry that overweight guy had a heart attack and ruined your picnic in the park, but you can’t be blamed for that, it’s not like you fed him donuts!”); or you assume he wasn’t, in which case you have to pick insults that don’t mean “mentally ill”.It probably goes without saying that “crazy”, “whackjob”, and “some psycho” are meaningless insults, but it’s also true of “some unbalanced guy” (there’s no such concept of “balance” in psychiatry: what you can call the mentally ill is “mentally ill”) and “garden variety mental illness” (the vast majority of the mentally ill, probably a larger share of them than in the population at large, isn’t violent).And to speculate that it’s specifically a psychosis he was suffering from? What’s the point? (spoiler: the point is to pick a mental illness with more stigma attached to it than others, because that makes for better insults.)Jen, I hope you never develop mental illness. But if you do, you will ruin a lot of people’s (your friends’ and relatives’, at least, but quite possibly strangers’, too) days. I hope those people wouldn’t agree with comments along the lines of “I’m so sorry that unbalanced girl ruined your trip”. At the very least, it’s an unkind thing to say.
University studies = Undecided
You know, from skimming the comments I didn’t get that feeling at all from anyone. Most were expressing sorrow that someone who may have a mental issue had an episode in public. They were also concerned for the people who had to witness such an act of violence. And now that act of violence will be linked to Ask an Atheist Day at this college. Have you ever seen someone intentionally hurt themselves? It’s a very jarring experience, not one you’re likely to forget.As it stands we don’t know if the student had a history of mental illness, so there is speculation as to why in the world someone would want to inflict harm upon themselves. The only logical answer for most of us is that he must have been unbalanced in some way. The mentally handicapped tend to make others uncomfortable. It’s not fair. It’s not right. But it is ingrained in most people and something as a society we need to work on. It really isn’t fair for you to jump down Jen’s throat for expressing herself over the matter or making others aware of it.
We actually had a lot of questions prior to the incident, and were engaged in a very open conversation with some members of Campus Crusade for Christ. The same guys were absolute heroes when the outburst happened, and stayed to continue the conversation afterward. Most of the questions directed to us about the incidents were from members of our club who showed up for their shifts afterward.
We have not been demonizing Huppert. Wade called the police because he was injuring himself and acting in an erratic manner. This is a legitimate reason to call emergency services, especially as such behavior can be a warning sign for violent behavior against others.The police acted in a very professional manner, from what I saw. The officer — and I’d like to stress, at this point, only one officer was present — asked Huppert to remove his hands from his pockets (standard police procedure, here, one doesn’t know whether weapons are present), and when he refused to comply, treated him as a threat. Because of the crowded situation, the officer’s options on how to deal with this were limited.Huppert was cuffed before being put in the police car; as far as I know, full-body restraints aren’t used unless they’re clearly necessary.As far as what he’s being charged with, how it works is: You get charged with crimes when you commit them. Charges can be dropped due to mental illness only after psychiatric evaluation and legal procedures. In my opinion, Huppert doesn’t need to be in jail, he needs to be receiving treatment. I suspect and hope that this is what will happen.And please don’t conflate the opinions of some with the opinions of all. I know plenty of atheists who take a very serious view of mental disorders, and I have seen many people who have taken the line of, “It’s a mental disorder, we can’t know for certain what, and I hope he gets the proper treatment,” and left it at that.
Beyond Dimensions and Nicole have already eloquently stated most of what I’d like to say. I’d just like to add that you shouldn’t assume that I don’t have any mental illnesses, or that I haven’t ruined a lot of people’s days because of it.
Figure out a way to get me there and I so will! :)
Sorry for ranting, but “unbalanced in some way” doesn’t even mean anything. Say “mentally ill” if that’s what you mean.”Most [comments] were expressing sorrow”? No. They weren’t. Some where (or at least asking for him to be given help), but “crazies”, “whackjobs”, and so on outnumber those.Yes, watching a suicide or self-inflicted injury is horrible. That doesn’t make “some unbalanced guy” an acceptable term; but even if it were an acceptable term, you can’t simultaneously argue “we don’t know if the student had a history of mental illness”. You yourself go on to justify that assumption: if the only logical answer is mental illness, you know it’s mental illness.I’m criticizing Jen (and sorry for doing it harshly) for doing something unacceptable, even though that act is considered normal: calling a person “unbalanced” and blaming them for daring to be mentally ill in public.
Thanks for telling me more on what happened, but there’s a reason I didn’t say “demonizing”: I didn’t want to say that happened. What has happened is the massive use of derogatory slurs against the mentally ill, and comments simultaneously assigning blame to him and stating he is mentally ill.Great job calling the police. I’m not criticizing that.I don’t think I said all atheists are guilty of anything, but the community certainly is.
And, uh, did I say that? “I hope X never happens to you” isn’t an assumption that it hasn’t already happened. I agree it would have been clearer to say “or happens to you again”.I’m sorry I stated things so harshly, because I really hope there can be a positive outcome to all this, and I’ve reduced that probability. Maybe I can try again?Please, don’t say “unbalanced guy” (it’s an outdated term, which never meant anything much to begin with, but even if you meant it to refer to a specific chemical imbalance, I don’t think there is enough information in this case to make such a diagnosis). Please, other posters, don’t say “crazies” or “whackjobs”, or talk of “psychoses” if you don’t have that knowledge. I think those terms, as they’ve been used in other comments, hurt; I’m sure they weren’t meant to, but that doesn’t make them okay. I think it’s not a question of evil intent, but one of sensitivity, and the only way I see to help with that is point out to people that I feel hurt and why.You haven’t claimed anything like that, but I would like to say that of course even a history of mental illness doesn’t make it right to use those terms of others.Sorry, again. I’ll try to find ways to point out hurtful remarks without offending people myself.
I see. So now instead of saying someone hasn’t chosen a major we say that they do it’s just “university studies?”
I apologize for the term “unbalanced” – I was actually actively trying to avoid triggering hurtful terms, and apparently I failed. Is there a more appropriate term that you would suggest?
I would facepalm harder, but it’s starting to hurt.
Apparently he was jailed immediately after and is being held in the Montgomery County Jail without bond. He truly needs mental help.
dude…please…..”other posters, don’t say “crazies” or “whackjobs”, or talk of “psychoses” if you don’t have that knowledge. “Since when did stabbing your hand in order to prove the existence of god become normal public behavior? I dont’ care what term you wish to ascribe to it, but the kid had a mental problem. Stabbing yourself with a pen is _not_ normal, and most decidedly qualifies as ‘crazy’, ‘whacko’, ‘psychotic’, ‘unbalanced’, or whatever vernacular you wish to choose for the act. Your whining about insulting those with abnormal behavioral pathologies is misplaced, because the dude has an obvious abnormal behavioral pathology. My proof? He walked up to a benign group and performed an uprovoked act of violence. To say that _isn’t_ an indication of some form of mental illness is quite possibly more detrimental to the dude than telling him he’s a fucking nutbag and needs help. If he’s going to deal with the problem he has effectively, he has to understand he has a problem. Granted “You’re a fucking nutbag” isn’t the most tactful method, but in light of the fact that he’s physically harming himself, the possible emotional trauma of being called a fucking nutbag pales in comparison.They lock people away for “being a danger to themselves”, and this dude clearly qualifies.
That’s wonderful! I’m glad he didn’t ruin the day’s event. :)
Anyone else notice that they called 911 at exactly 1:19. I’m easily amused :)
The point though is that it isn’t just “possible emotional trauma” for this one individual, but also for other people with mental illnesses who are continuously stigmatized in our society. Can’t we disagree with this person’s actions without implying with our language that mental illness itself is morally wrong?
I aim to please.
If God existed, his followers wouldn’t have to fake the stigmata this way. (Well, I s’pose it’s just “stigma” since he stopped at one.)
Don’t even SAY that!!!
You’re objecting to “unbalanced”? Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse us for not keeping up on what you find unobjectionable.
Does VT have an activities fair at the beginning of the year for incoming freshmen where all the clubs set up and sign up members? Does the VT freethinkers have a table there? Sorry if I am being elementary, but I think that the activities fair is by far the best place to get members. That and flyering around campus and having member signups at every event. A lot of VT students are going to be religious but given the size of VT I think that you guys have a bright future ahead of you.
Religion can make you crazy, even if you weren’t normally. I remember when I became an atheist; I prayed for almost half an hour for God to turn my bathwater red if he was real. I was crying and begging, calling him yahweh, father, lord, etc, asking forgiveness for everything I could think of if he would not answer my prayer, the whole nine yards, then I got really mad, like he was sitting on his ass. As much of a dickwad as CS Lewis was, I thought his quote “I was mad at God for not existing” was the best descriptor of my feelings. Of course, our final destinations were much different, as I’m still very much an atheist. As a Christian, I would ask for all kinds of signs and crazy miracles. I asked for God to let me sleep for a year one time, when I was really stressed, but only make it like a day for everyone else. I prayed for God to bring my pet rabbit back to life after it had been chopped into multiple pieces by a lawnmower(granted, this was when I was 12) but I also prayed he would bring a woman back to life after she died from cancer(when I was 16). Yeah, my head was fucked up. Don’t take mental health for granted; I can’t tell you how nice it is to have a happy, naturalist perspective on things. Logic really does kick ass.
either you decide to act like he was mentally ill, in which case blaming him for what happened is as primitive and disgusting as insulting those with physical disabilitiesFunnily enough, there is a guy with actual mental illness who considers this characterization of people like him objectionable to the point of being bigoted:http://scientopia.org/blogs/go…
“University studies major” is just Tech’s term for undecided. It works like any other college; you can’t graduate with a university studies major, and usually undergrads only hold that status for their first two years. Everyone here knows that, though I can see why it would be confusing to outsiders.
I’d rather that we not compare Huppert to other believers, or take his actions as serious arguments for the existence of God. He is obviously (or was obviously suffering) from some serious problems, and I think it is worthwhile to compare his actions to the other Christians who were there that day. I know that you said what you did in jest, but I know that Huppert and his family are undoubtedly going through some hard times right now. I know that several members of our group were deeply shaken by what happened.As one of the members of the Freethinkers Society who was there that day, I can tell you that I had a number of excellent conversations with members of Campus Crusade for Christ. We even invited them to our group’s meetings. When stuff started going down, the CC kids were extremely brave and heroic and helped to handle the situation. My respect for those kids, despite our ideological, theological, or philosophical differences, is profound. It should be kept in mind that both a member of our group and a member of CC responded to the police officer’s request for help. Everyone acted very professionally, and no one was injured (other than the injuries Huppert unfortunately inflicted upon himself.)I would therefore encourage people not to make light of this situation, or to compare Huppert to other Christians (or other religious people more generally.)
Don’t apologize for using a neutral, non-offensive term.
I know this post is way late, but many places have a lot more “crazies” than ol’ southwest VA (the New River Valley is my home, I grew up here, and I love this area), which is why you hear about the incidents that occur in SWVA. Those incidents stand out. I hope this kid will get the help he needs from the community, society, and within himself to learn and live a great life. That being said, even with the events that happened on 4/16/2007, the mental health system in VA is still absolute shit. The population is still very ignorant of the ideas of mental health and illness and many people who need help are not getting it.
We atheists, freethinkers, and other non-theists here in VA need to organize and vocalize more. Making those things happen is difficult though.