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Feb 25 2013

Most excellent news

Harriet Hall and Amy Roth have reconciled. I’m pleased to hear it; I wasn’t worried about Amy, but Hall was going to hit mantle at the rate she was digging. It is a great relief that she stopped, looked around, and considered her situation thoughtfully, and then responded well.

59 comments

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  1. 1
    jose

    Now you need to reconcile with ERV.

  2. 2
    Xanthë, Amy of my threads

    Oh great, not even one comment and we’re fucking derailed. jose, you’re a fool.

  3. 3
    erikthebassist

    Too bad the pitter’s are already shitting all over the comments there. It looked like Steve was growing a spine for a minute, defending Rebecca, taking a few of them to task, but the diplomat in him just can’t resist accommodating them.

    I understand his motives and I think he’s a good guy generally, but comon, this is RW, a close personal friend of his, that’s been shit on for 2 years plus running now. You’d think he would have spoken up sooner and more forcefully on her behalf.

  4. 4
    Jadehawk

    I’m glad about this, too. I had suspected Hall of becoming another Paula Kirby, and I’m not entirely convinced she understands the goals and means for moving past the “exceptional women allowed” stage of working towards inequality; but at least she stopped digging in about that t-shirt.
    Now if she could talk reasonably with Will, and see that he had a point for calling out her trans-erasure in her sex/gender post, that would be ideal.

    But one step at a time, I guess.

  5. 5
    Jadehawk

    working towards inequality

    see what happens when you threaten to take away my guns coffee?! I get all discombobulated and write silly things like that.

    I meant “working towards equality”, of course.

  6. 6
    jose

    Well this was about reconciliation. Might as well jump directly into the deepest rift of them all!

    If Barney Frank was able to interact with Paul Ryan, I think anything’s possible.

  7. 7
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    A good sign that the Slymepits attempts to fan the flames of these kind of situations aren’t having the desired effects. And hopefully it’ll serve as an illustration to those who still haven’t woken up to their scumbaggery of just how much their little clique is dependent on not rocking the boat, i.e. that their response to dissent is to go on a bullying rampage against the dissenter.

  8. 8
    heliobates

    Now you need to reconcile with ERV.

    Shouldn’t that be the other way around?

  9. 9
    ck

    Well this was about reconciliation. Might as well jump directly into the deepest rift of them all!

    What about Bill Donohue? Won’t someone think about reconciliation with him and PZ? No? Oh, well. I tried.

  10. 10
    Kagato

    Good news.
    The comments on Steven Novella’s blog post are, however, pretty depressing.
    (Mostly due to “decius” I think, who at the time of writing is responsible for over 20% of all comments.)

  11. 11
    anteprepro

    (Mostly due to “decius” I think, who at the time of writing is responsible for over 20% of all comments.)

    Ain’t that always the way? Nobody on the planet has got more to say about nothing in particular than the Great White American Troll.

  12. 12
    Stacy

    Now you need to reconcile with ERV

    Abbie Smith encourages the trolling of a woman who has been through hell fighting a corrupt evangelical sheriff. Read this, everybody, please.

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/559922_575610799116647_1451923567_n.jpg

    Background on Grady Judd and EllenBeth Wachs:

    http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1399-polk-county-sheriff-grady-judd-loses-fight-against-humanist-activist.html

  13. 13
    Jadehawk

    hey pharyngulites, did you know we’re all brainwashed with neo-marxist rhetoric, and that we called Sam Harris a racist just because he disagreed with PZ?

    pitters. can’t stop bullshitting.

  14. 14
    Stacy

    Re my #12: More background–apparently the pitizens were discussing this story about Sheriff Judd.

  15. 15
    Jadehawk

    Abbie Smith encourages the trolling of a woman who has been through hell fighting a corrupt evangelical sheriff.

    she also made pretty nasty ableist jokes about Melody Hensley going to the ER because of insomnia:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BD1C2nTCUAAfS83.png

    The deep rifts between such toxicity and decent people should remain as wide as humanly possible; no reconciliation until such shit stops.

  16. 16
    Stacy

    hey pharyngulites, did you know we’re all brainwashed with neo-marxist rhetoric, and that we called Sam Harris a racist just because he disagreed with PZ?

    Also, we’re not good people, because according to decius:

    good people do not associate with rabid ideologues and hate-mongers like Amanda Marcotte

  17. 17
    Jadehawk

    in case the link in my previous post doesn’t work:
    http://t.co/3AEfN5Xhzx

  18. 18
    anteprepro

    Stacy:

    Abbie Smith encourages the trolling of a woman who has been through hell fighting a corrupt evangelical sheriff. Read this, everybody, please.

    Surprise surprise that A* like Abbie love them some gunz and extrajudicial revenge-defense killing.

    Jadehawk:

    she also made pretty nasty ableist jokes about Melody Hensley going to the ER because of insomnia:

    Holy shit. That is your brain on /b/ folks.

  19. 19
    Julien Rousseau

    Nice to hear that Harriet and Amy have settled their differences on the T-shirt issue. Hopefully there will be more to come.

    Sad to hear that ERV is now adding encouraging the trolling of people fighting for the separation of church and state to her odious repertoire (and that’s without talking of the ableism she displays by calling EllenBeth Wachs insane).

  20. 20
    erikthebassist

    ahhh ffs Word Press’ login is borked, I can’t log in over there to tell decius “wtf does socialism and marxism have to do with feminism?”

  21. 21
    marinerachel

    I can only imagine what the comments on every forum with the word “rational” in it’s name look like. Gross. I bet Amy coerced Harriet into listening to and understanding her position or something. Yeah, that sounds good.

  22. 22
    erikthebassist

    ahhh ffs Word Press’ login is borked, I can’t log in over there to tell ask decius “wtf does socialism and marxism have to do with feminism?”

    fffm

  23. 23
    Anthony K

    Holy shit. That is your brain on /b/ folks.

    Hey, it’s all in good skeptical free speech fun!

    Unless it’s done by Greg Laden, in which case it’s a crime against humanity.

  24. 24
    Ichthyic

    …or a prelude to a story about the Congo?

  25. 25
    Wowbagger, Designated Snarker

    Anthony K wrote:

    Unless it’s done by Greg Laden, in which case it’s a crime against humanity.

    Never forget that, since the first commandment of the slymepit is “Thou shalt revere false equivalence and use it at every opportunity”, the reverse – blatant hypocrisy – is also encouraged.

  26. 26
    Jadehawk

    rocko is whining in my twitter feed about how he was banned from Pharyngula for “asking questions” and “dissent”

    why the fuck is that fuck following me.

  27. 27
    throwaway

    “Two people decided to reconcile about a topic that I can’t bludgeon the other side for anymore?! *RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE*” ~ the ‘Pit

    ^ Exactly what NeuroLogica reads as in the comments section.

    I applaud this good faith effort by both sides to find common ground and come to an understanding and make amends.

  28. 28
    Goodbye Enemy Janine

    Jadehawk, I am sorry.

  29. 29
    lilandra

    I am glad that they have decided to agree on what they can, and to disagree productively. It was very magnanimous of Amy to make this gesture, and Hall showed intellectual humility.

  30. 30
    PZ Myers

    That rocko2466 was banned for none of those things. He was banned for being one of those sleazy lying ‘pitters.

    And sorry, but I go months without thinking of ERV or having her brought to my attention, so asking me to ‘reconcile’ is like asking me to kiss and make up with some slimy squishy creature at the bottom of the sea. I’d be more likely to enjoy a conversation with it than her, but I’m not inclined to disturb either.

    So why’d you have to go and bring her up here again? She’s got nothing to do with the topic at hand.

  31. 31
    erikthebassist

    Let’s all try to follow the lead of Surly Amy and Harriet Hall and give charity a chance.

    Fine, JV… Renounce the pit, renounce reap paden, he is clearly off the deep end.

    Every one renounce thunderfool…..

    ERV has some splainin to do…

    The ftbullies# stops now….

    You want a cease fire…. Call a cease fire, no more bashing of RW, no more bashing of skepchick or ftb, admit that feminism is a voice that will be heard, acknowledge that women are people, and should be treated as equals at secular events. Start fucking there.

  32. 32
    Jadehawk

    and now rocko’s claiming Melody Hensley is “too emotional and unstable” to be a leader. malignant weasel. bet if he ever provides a “citation” for that, it’ll be just some blatant ableism or hyperbole about some comment about no longer wanting to engage the haters because it’s emotionally draining

  33. 33
    Tony! The Fucking Queer Shoop!

    Erik:
    Hmmm, I will take “actions that will lead to hell freezing over” for $500 Alex.

  34. 34
    billygutter01

    malignant weasel

    Eagles soar, but weasels don’t get sucked into jet engines.

    Crap… where did I read that?!

    Therefore weasels win… Not the story I meant to tell…

    Shit.

  35. 35
    billygutter01

    Disregard my previous comment.

    Apparently I need to sleep.

  36. 36
    erikthebassist

    Erik:
    Hmmm, I will take “actions that will lead to hell freezing over” for $500 Alex.

    Well I saw a pig flying on a Geico commercial recently, figured it was worth a shot, and better than weasels and eagles getting sucked in to jet engines.

  37. 37
    erikthebassist

    In moderation at Neuroloica……

    # erikthebassiston 26 Feb 2013 at 2:11 am
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    ok seriously… JV, you’re reading this comment thread, do this:
    Renounce the pit, renounce reap paden, he is clearly off the deep end.
    Every one renounce thunderfool…..
    ERV has some splainin to do…
    The ftbullies# stops now….
    You want a cease fire…. Call a cease fire, no more bashing of RW, no more bashing of Skepchick or FTB, admit that feminism is a voice that will be heard, acknowledge that women are people, and should be treated as equals at secular events. Start fucking there.
    Thunderfool doesn’t get to gnaw on people’s extremities without their consent. RW doesn’t have to get propositioned in an elevator at 4:00 AM when she’s clearly there to talk about women in the secular movement and not get hit on in enclosed spaces by strangers.
    Women don’t attend secular events so you can try and fuck them. Start there JV, admit that, admit that men can make things uncomfortable for women when they act like predators, admit that women want to be seen and acknowledged for their intellectual contribution, and not their vaginal worth.
    Start there……

  38. 38
    erikthebassist

    But can’t spell Neurologica George… 10 pts to any one who gets that……

  39. 39
    erikthebassist

    apparently I can’t type either, but that’s nothing new…

  40. 40
    Eric O

    I’m really happy to see this.

    I never really knew who Harriet Hall was until the whole t-shirt incident, so my first impression of her wasn’t really a good one. I’ve just gained a tremendous amount of respect for her in the last fifteen minutes since I read the blog posts.

  41. 41
    Jafafa Hots

    like asking me to kiss and make up with some slimy squishy creature at the bottom of the sea.

    Wait, I’m confused… I thought you LOVED slimy squishy sea creatures!

  42. 42
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Oh my goodness
    Justin Vacula is a pompous ass who couldn’t write a decent sentence to save his life…

  43. 43
    Stacy

    Oh my goodness
    Justin Vacula is a pompous ass who couldn’t write a decent sentence to save his life

    Vacula’s flailing. He wanted very much to be taken seriously and he blew any chance he ever had. Now he’s trying to project “HERE I AM WITH MY EARNEST HAT ON TO DISPENSE ADVICE TO YOU UPPITY BITCHES GIRLS WOMEN AND SAVE SKEPTICISM!”

  44. 44
    Giliell, professional cynic -Ilk-

    Also the classic Vacula “women calling other women “chill girls” and “women calling men “rape-apologists”". I knew there are no women on Pharyngula, but apparently now there are no men on Pharyngula either.

  45. 45
    Thumper: Who Presents Boxes Which Are Not Opened

    @Giliell

    Does that mean I’m both a rape apologist and a mangina? We can’t win! :)

  46. 46
    Anri

    Wait, I’m confused… I thought you LOVED slimy squishy sea creatures!

    Yes, but for him to have to make up to one of them would mean he in some way was angry at one of them – not something conscionable.

    Slimy squishy sea creatures all love PZ <- trufax.

  47. 47
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    I am so jazzed to read this. Had (have) such respect for Hall that it was making me sick to think she’d thrown in with the bigot pit.

    I wonder what they will start doing to her now that she’s reconciled with the ebil Amy.

  48. 48
    Sastra

    I’m so very glad Amy and Harriet have reconciled. I’m tempted to say that it was bound to happen since the original problem had a lot to do with misunderstanding and miscommunication — and both Amy and Harriet are such reasonable and likeable people — but there’s been so much animosity and tribal divisiveness surrounding the feminism/skepticism issue that I wasn’t very hopeful. This is good news indeed.

  49. 49
    SC (Salty Current), OM

    Novella:

    We have to find ways to marginalize and ignore these elements, and not confuse them for those who have reasonable and friendly disagreements.

    Here’s a thought: You could begin with your own comment threads.

  50. 50
    thetalkingstove

    I commented over at Neurologica that the responses Dr Novella is getting should tell him something.

    Didn’t take long for the usual “harassment? just put up with it”, “feminists are trying to destroy the world” types to pop up to decry the heinous crime of criticising Sam Harris.

  51. 51
    coelsblog

    Dear PZ,
    Both Harriet and Amy deserve credit for this reconcilation and their graceful conduct in their exchange of emails. They both admitted some degree of fault and accepted each other’s apologies. Kudos to them both.

    You recently said about this: “It’s simple: [Harriet] wore [the t-shirt] to spite some people she clearly doesn’t like, and to get praise from other people who don’t like Rebecca Watson and the Skepchicks. It’s really that easy. Just admit it and move on. I know it’s hard to admit that you’re that petty, but it would end all this nonsense, and it would be honest.”

    Amy has graciously accepted Harriet’s explanation that this was not her intention, saying “I realize now, that was not your intention”. (While Harriet has apologised for her lack of forethought and realisation that it would be taken that way.)

    In the spirit of this reconciliation, might you wish to amend your above statement and join Amy in accepting Harriet’s explanation of her intent?

  52. 52
    SallyStrange

    This really is a feeling of relief, like things aren’t quite so hopeless as I’d thought.

    I really did have a hard time believing that anyone could be so socially inept as to not realize that “I am not a skepchick” would be taken by many as a dig against Skepchick. But, I guess some people really are that clueless.

  53. 53
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    In the spirit of this reconciliation,

    Yawn, less concern is needed, not more.

  54. 54
    doubtthat

    @52

    At a certain point, someone is going to have to accept someone else’s face-saving excuses.

    I’m not a fan of all these reconciliation and “There will be peace in our time” efforts, largely because they imply that there isn’t a real reason for the tension (please, just listen while I explain my pure motives for calling you a slutwhorebitchcunt…). If individuals manage to overcome their specific issues, though, I think that’s only good.

  55. 55
    cubist

    I am horribly cynical. From where I sit, Harriet Hall may have talked the talk of reconciliation, but I will still regard her as a de facto slymepitter until such time as she walks the walk of reconciliation.

  56. 56
    throwaway

    I think reconciliation is a pretty obvious variance with the ‘pit, such that I regard it prima facie evidence that she is not a de facto ‘pitter.

  57. 57
    Owlglass

    You only need like 3 browser tabs, and tweetdeck to see how various cross accusations line up with reality. I save you some time here: Not very well. But I’m happy that the next season has been picked up. My favorite sitcom after Big Bang Theory.

  58. 58
    Alethea Kuiper-Belt

    I can see where Hall could have been so socially inept. It mostly takes totally ignoring the Deep Rifts to get on with her own medicine & anti-quackery thing. Many women of our generation who went into heavily male-dominated fields are a bit socially inept. It helps you to ignore all the bullshit.

    I used to lurk a bit at JREF, and I really didn’t like it when the “skepchick” label was coined – it seemed somewhat derogatory, a cutesy ladies’ auxiliary style of thing. With a nerdy-cheesecakey calendar – very “chill girl”. Neither Rebecca nor Amy used to identify as feminists back then and possibly they might have thought differently if they had been more aware. I’m not going to complain now, though, they’ve taken it as their own and run with it.

  59. 59
    throwaway

    57. owlglass

    You only need like 3 browser tabs, and tweetdeck to see how various cross accusations line up with reality. I save you some time here: Not very well. But I’m happy that the next season has been picked up. My favorite sitcom after Big Bang Theory.

    I’m so glad you find the suffering of people to be so amusing. At least you’re entertained by it. Derail like this for a few more posts please…

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