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Sep 05 2012

Receiving a daily flood of hatred

Bullying works. Systematic relentless daily bullying can break people and make them give up. Jen is sick of it, so they have succeeded in silencing her for the time being. She’s getting out.

I love writing, I love sharing my ideas, and I love listening to the ideas of my readers. But I simply no longer love blogging. Instead of feeling gleeful anticipation when writing up a post, I feel nothing but dread. There’s a group of people out there (google the ironic term FtBullies to find them) devoted to hating me, my friends, and even people I’m just vaguely associated with. I can no longer write anything without my words getting twisted, misrepresented, and quotemined. I wake up every morning to abusive comments, tweets, and emails about how I’m a slut, prude, ugly, fat, feminazi, retard, bitch, and cunt (just to name a few). If I block people who are twisting my words or sending verbal abuse, I receive an even larger wave of nonsensical hate about how I’m a slut, prude, feminazi, retard, bitch, cunt who hates freedom of speech (because the Constitution forces me to listen to people on Twitter). This morning I had to delete dozens of comments of people imitating my identity making graphic, lewd, degrading sexual comments about my personal life. In the past, multiple people have threatened to contact my employer with “evidence” that I’m a bad scientist (because I’m a feminist) to try to destroy my job. I’m constantly worried that the abuse will soon spread to my loved ones.

I just can’t take it anymore.

I don’t want to let them win, but I’m human. The stress is getting to me. I’ve dealt with chronic depression since elementary school, and receiving a daily flood of hatred triggers it. I’ve been miserable. And this toxic behavior is affecting all parts of my life. With this cloud of hate hanging over my head, I can’t focus or enjoy my hobbies or work. It has me constantly on edge with frayed nerves, which causes me to take it out on the ones I love. I spend most of my precious free time angry, on the verge of tears, or sobbing as I have to moderate comments or read what new terrible things people have said about me. And the only solution I see is to unplug.

That stinks.

46 comments

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  1. 1
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Damn. That really sucks. :-(

    But I understand and Jen will always have my respect – as Ophelia Benson will you. Internet (((hugs))) from me if you want them.

    And to the Bullies and thugs : a big FUCK YOU!

    You haven’t won – and you won’t.

  2. 2
    Alverant

    I’m sorry such a thing still happens and in a community I thought was open to others. This has to stop. I wish there was a way too stop it.

  3. 3
    valdemar

    When I was a lad in the halcyon days before the internet we sometimes read in the paper about ‘poison pen letters’ – they were always anonymous (or pseudonymous), and invariably hate-filled. They peddled lies and smears and sometimes hinted at violence to the recipient or those close to them. People who received poison pen letters sometimes took them to the police, and more often than not the police took them seriously. Warnings were given, sometimes arrests were made and charges brought.

    And you know the weird thing? Nobody defended the twisted, venomous individuals who sent poison pen letters on the grounds that they were exercising ‘free speech’ or engaging in ‘robust debate’, or told victims to ‘man up’ and so forth. Nobody would have been so crass. So far as I can see the big difference between the poison pen writers and verminous trolls attacking Jen, yourself and others is that the internet allows such cowardly scum to hunt in packs instead of spew their bile individually, and a lack of effective policing lets them get away with it. Otherwise it’s the same MO.

    Contemptible, shoddy excuses for human beings, all of them. I wish every one of them could be publicly named and shamed in front of friends, family and colleagues, most of whom probably have no idea what kind of spineless tossers they have in their midst.

  4. 4
    Pteryxx

    That stinks.

    Sometimes there’s just not a whole lot that needs said.

  5. 5
    Randomfactor

    Apparently the theists no longer need to burn us at the stake. They’ve subcontracted the work to the worst elements of our OWN ranks.

  6. 6
    machintelligence

    What we really need to do is to set up a “flypaper” site that captures the internet address and identity of these creeps. (Is that possible?) Then use existing cyberstalking statutes to prosecute them.

  7. 7
    Rrr

    I just sent this email to some people I know are at the same Humanist venue as Dawkins, in Stockholm, where he is a prominent speaker:

    Hi. I’m writing this in English because I bcc Jennifer McCreight ( freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag ).
    Sorry it’s a bit long.

    To my profound consternation and worry, this pillar, this lighthouse, this shining star of bloggery, atheism, sciencism and wit, has decided to take a time-out because of all the bullying she has received over the past year and then some.

    A not insignificant portion of this on-line abuse can undoubtedly be traced back to the appalling actions and non-actions of this evening’s star, Professor Richard Dawkins (whom I admire for his work in popularising science and skepticism, as well as for his writing style) during the aftermath of the infamous “Elevatorgate” kerfuffle of last year. If you recall, Professor Dawkins wrote a comment or post titled “Dear Muslima” belittling the ligitimate concern of a number of prominent women, not least this post-grad, Jen, over sexist harassment. For this Dear Dawkins has not yet, to my knowledge, offered any sincere apology. And for that he ought to be very much ashamed, I think.

    Some people may even consider a good place to confront him with this dire development might be the current adulations being offered to him as a main speaker at the Swedish Humanists’ gala held at Rival in Stockholm. A well-timed pointed question, perhaps?

    I just made a symbolic donation to her with these words:

    So unspeakably sorry they burn you out, Jen. Just got the news from Brownian via PZ. I’ll try to get someone to pull Dawkins’ ear, he’s on stage in Stockholm right now so they may be more attentive to him than me (Imagine!)
    Please come back when you can.
    / Rrr

    And these were her parting words:

    Goodbye for now
    September 4, 2012 at 9:17 pm Jen

    I’m done with blogging for an indefinite period of time.

    I hate to do this. After my brief vacation from blogging this summer, I felt recharged and ready to write again. But that happiness ended almost instantaneously.

    I love writing, I love sharing my ideas, and I love listening to the ideas of my readers. But I simply no longer love blogging. Instead of feeling gleeful anticipation when writing up a post, I feel nothing but dread. There’s a group of people out there (google the ironic term FtBullies to find them) devoted to hating me, my friends, and even people I’m just vaguely associated with. I can no longer write anything without my words getting twisted, misrepresented, and quotemined. I wake up every morning to abusive comments, tweets, and emails about how I’m a slut, prude, ugly, fat, feminazi, retard, bitch, and cunt (just to name a few). If I block people who are twisting my words or sending verbal abuse, I receive an even larger wave of nonsensical hate about how I’m a slut, prude, feminazi, retard, bitch, cunt who hates freedom of speech (because the Constitution forces me to listen to people on Twitter). This morning I had to delete dozens of comments of people imitating my identity making graphic, lewd, degrading sexual comments about my personal life. In the past, multiple people have threatened to contact my employer with “evidence” that I’m a bad scientist (because I’m a feminist) to try to destroy my job. I’m constantly worried that the abuse will soon spread to my loved ones.

    I just can’t take it anymore.

    For shame, Mr Dawkins! You could do better than this, and you must know that.
    RN

    PS: I now see the news made Ophelia’s blog too:

    Receiving a daily flood of hatred
    September 5, 2012 at 9:27 am Ophelia Benson

    Bullying works. Systematic relentless daily bullying can break people and make them give up. Jen is sick of it, so they have succeeded in silencing her for the time being. She’s getting out.

    (Links not replicated.)

  8. 8
    John the Drunkard

    Dawkins is not responsible for this avalanche of hatred. He can surely be chastised for missing the point, and deserves all reasonable criticism for not stepping up on the right side, but the trolling, sock-puppetry, misogyny etc. are the responsiblity of those who DO them.

    These monsters were out there all along, before elevators, before TAM’s attempt to evade the issue. They are capable of generating floods of verbiage that clog the community’s arteries. They are like the lunatic with a megaphone under the windows of an interesting meeting.

    This is a problem of individual pathology, exacerbated by the nature of the internet. No one should have to endure this much. I can’t demand that Jen put up with any more because her endurance won’t make a difference in the behaviour of these sociopaths, and no support I can give will either.

    The ‘natural’–pre internet– reaction would be to find them out and give ‘em a good thrashing.

    Not that that would do much good either.

  9. 9
    Nathair

    the worst elements of our OWN ranks.

    Atheism is nothing. Nothing to be proud of, nothing to be ashamed of, it’s just starting from zero. If the only place your atheism takes you to is barking in gloating unison with your fellow troglodytes about how STOOPID!! theists are compared to you then you’ve started from zero and taken a big step backwards. All you have achieved is the pernicious intolerant tribalism of religion without the fancy hats and incense. Real rationalism never, ever leads to the kind of insecurity fueled fist bumping brodude verbal stonings we’ve been witness to.

    These people were never our own and we were never theirs. We just happen to not-believe one thing they not-believe too.

  10. 10
    Rrr

    John: No, Dawkins is not solely responsible. But neither is he totally without the guilt of neglect. How hard would it have been for him to not speak when he did, or after he had, to counter those unwanted side-effects?

    As a prominent figure-head of Atheism he cannot honourably shirk at least some of the blame for what he did very little to stop, once he had done something to advance it, however ill-conceived that action was.

  11. 11
    Rrr

    Nathair: Somewhat confused what you are saying here, can I take it was in support of Atheism+?

  12. 12
    Lauren

    John the Drunkard @ 8:

    “This is a problem of individual pathology, exacerbated by the nature of the internet.”

    No, it’s behavior that is supported and enabled by the wider culture those individuals swim in. Why are you so anxious to chalk it up to a few “sociopaths”, when big cultural change is obviously indicated?

  13. 13
    UnknownEric the Apostate

    I just don’t know what to do or say. I can’t grasp how these people are so oblivious/nasty. What do they gain? And for them to call the people HERE bullies, when they’re the ones actively harassing people off the internet is just…

    …grr, I need a soda.

  14. 14
    Rrr

    Lauren: Exactly! And an important one of those enablers of filth is Dawkins. How can he not be to blame? Not to the exclusion of many others, but he himself?

    I’d totally quit shaving if I had to look at that face in a local mirror every morning. (Not that I shave meticulously anyway.)

  15. 15
    magicthighs

    John @8: People like Dawkins, Kirby, Stangroom, Blackford, etc are responsible for enabling and empowering three people directly responsible, and they should own up to that.

  16. 16
    Nathair

    Somewhat confused what you are saying here

    Stop it, I’m blushing!

    can I take it was in support of Atheism+?

    Not directly. It was in support of Randomfactor and most of the rest of the commentariat here. We were never just atheists. Atheism+ is merely formalizing “rifts” that have always existed.

  17. 17
    magicthighs

    The, not three. Sorry, I’m on my mobile phone ATM.

  18. 18
    Rrr

    Nathair: Well, that’s almost what I tried to communicate ;-)

    Magic:

    on my mobile phone ATM

    I’d likely be a little bit distracted too, if I had one. Where can I get one?

  19. 19
    Josh, Official SpokesGay

    This is a problem of individual pathology

    NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO!

    This is NOT about individual pathology. It’s about rape culture, casual sexism and societally endorsed misogyny. Wake the fuck up. We’re all responsible for putting an end to it in the culture.

  20. 20
    Esteleth, [an error occurred while processing this directive]

    Josh is right. If we give into the temptation to other Dawkins (et al), we run the risk of forgetting the most important part of this: this is about dealing with the problem that is within our own ranks.

    Also, y’know, othering is more-or-less inherently bad.

  21. 21
    xmaseveeve

    I understand that men are attacked too, but I’m going to talk about women, for Jen. I am saddened by this episode, and so am not feeling up to a rant. Just want to make a few points.

    Although Richard Dawkins could not have foreseen what has happened, I’m sure that he’ll condemn it loudly and apologise for his inadvertent part in it. The comments were satirical, and you can’t blame him any more than you could blame Warren Mitchell or Johnny Speight if Alf Garnett inspires racist attacks.

    Sometimes good people are a tad thoughtless. This, however, is not intentional harm – internet trolls must be exposed and, when appropriate, prosecuted.

    The old chestnut about women having no sense of humour must be countered, by, for example, citing the difference between a blonde joke and a period joke. We must explain why it’s not witty, just for fun, to find the ratio of men to women who’d sleep with someone they’d just met, and conclude that women are spoilsports, prudes or lesbians. (Just for a laugh.)

    If a man is walking behind a lone woman on an empty road, he should cross to the other side. Don’t ask a stranger out, when alone with her in an enclosed space. It’s only empathy and common sense.

    Feminist men must speak up more. Apologist women who have not yet experienced sexual assault or harassment, or were too dumb to recognise it, or who perversely like the attention, should not use their perspective to try to invalidate the experiences of others women.

    I too suffer from depression, and I know what it’s like to be misrepresented and quote-mined. It made me ill for weeks. I can’t even imagine how this woman must feel to be wrongfully punished by the kangaroo court of non-entities which is the internet… And to top it all, she was bloody right.

  22. 22
    Rrr

    Xmaseveeve:

    Although Richard Dawkins could not have foreseen what has happened, I’m sure that he’ll condemn it loudly and apologise for his inadvertent part in it. The comments were satirical, and you can’t blame him

    Have you seen him do that yet? It’s been, what — 15 months? The man is obviously not totally muted (he was last seen as the prominent guest speaker in the pulpit plugging his latest book at the Swedish Humanists’ big do at ABBA’s Rival in Stockholm, just a few hours ago) and while I must admit not having followed his every utterance lately, I certainly have not seen or heard of many outspoken reversals of his misspoke (sic! ha!) last summer.

    Sorry, but I fail to see why he must not be blamed by reference to those persons you mention, whose names mean absolutely nothing to me. Oh, and happy namesday on Dec 24 ;-) — foresee a toast to your health!

  23. 23
    john neighbourly

    That’s one less blog on the internet dedicated to personal attacks and bullying.

    Which begs the question, do two wrongs make a right?

  24. 24
    'Tis Himself

    Dawkins, a rich, educated, white male, is blinded by his privilege. He isn’t the cause of the misogyny rampant among atheists, but he is an enabler.

  25. 25
    'Tis Himself

    john neighborly,

    Fuck you and your misogyny.

  26. 26
    Rrr

    Hey john, if I was in your wrong neighbourhood I’d take a right quick right and turn right out of it as fast as pissible.

  27. 27
    Ophelia Benson

    What’s “ABBA’S Rival”? Is that a club owned by ABBA or something?

  28. 28
    Ophelia Benson

    Googleisyourfriend. Hotel, owned by Benny Andersson.

  29. 29
    Ophelia Benson

    All this about Dawkins – I don’t think it’s fair to hold him responsible. I think he did a lot to make the misogynists feel justified, but I don’t think he meant to do that, or knew his comment would have that effect. Well I’m sure he didn’t; how could he have?

    I also don’t think he has any idea of the extent of the harassment. He has other claims on his attention.

  30. 30
    julian

    Best wishes to Jen. Hope she drinks, games, fucks, hugs her cat and does whatever else she feels like doing during her hiatus.

  31. 31
    Sophistry

    Richard Dawkins is NOT the instigator of this. He has been one, of many, victims of the mean-spirited attacks by Jen and friends. As a person who has struggled with depression, I do sympathize with Jen. But WTF were you thinking when you joined in the smear campaigns against so many others??

    May you find peace in your break. Wishing you only the best

  32. 32
    Ophelia Benson

    I’m not Jen. This isn’t Jen’s blog.

  33. 33
    Sophistry

    The definition of “misogynist” does not include everyone who disagrees with you or thinks you are a silly, dramatic twit.

  34. 34
    Ophelia Benson

    Does too.

  35. 35
    Sastra

    StevoR #1 wrote:

    Damn. That really sucks

    QFT.

    This is so frustrating. I hope Jen continues to write, perhaps in a forum other than the internet. She has a lot of fans.

  36. 36
    Brian

    Thought bubble. If we criticize gentile relgionists for providing cover for the nutters, can we likewise criticize gentile anti-atheist plusers for providing cover for the nutters?
    This is sad, and the stupid thing is, nobody has been forced to be an a+er. It’s optional, like watching tv. Turn it off it bothers you, don’t abuse the tv….

  37. 37
    Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle

    Wake the fuck up. We’re all responsible for putting an end to it in the culture.

    Avoiding responsibility for one’s active involvement or passive support of the problem is exactly what is behind these “it’s not so widespread!” comments, isn’t it.

    The definition of “misogynist” does not include everyone who disagrees with you or thinks you are a silly, dramatic twit.

    See? Comments like this scream “I’m too lazy to think about anyone but myself!”

    Avoidance of personal responsibility and culpability. That’s all that’s behind this cowardice.

  38. 38
    Ian MacDougall

    I am no professional psychologist, but it appears to me that the trolls in question probably do it for the power-kick they get: the same motivation that is behind all forms of vandalism. They probably won’t get caught, but they are making the point that they are people whose words exert power over others.

    Nobody but Jen can decide what she should do. However, you don’t have to be Darwin to see a process akin to natural or artificial selection taking place here. The trolls are the selection agents (that probably gives their egos a kick) and the social media writers are the species being acted upon. Over the course of time and on average, the hides of the writers will gradually thicken as the more vulnerable ones are selected out.

    The troll (in my experience, far more likely to be male than female) possibly sees himself as being like a parent ridiculing a child. (Did his own parents ridicule him when he was a child? Did they or whoever, in the course his life events took thus arrest his development, making it impossible for him to behave as an adult, and to engage in adult discourse?) Whatever the case may be, he behaves today like a little boy who has never grown up. He needs understanding, perhaps even a little sympathy, but not the string of victories that will keep him forever locked into his forlorn, stunted state.

    So following Eric Berne’s lead, I would say that strategies that are most UNLIKELY to work include:

    a. The slanging match; hitting his ball back to him; replying in kind;
    b. Ignoring him completely; likely to cause him to up the ante;
    c. Ridicule. The poor bastard has possibly had more than his fair share of this to date, and has probably learned coping strategies that work OK for him.

    He can probably cope better with parent-child (including condescension) and child-child exchanges, having no doubt had lots of practice. What he is almost certainly less competent at is adult-adult. That is, where he is continually talked to as if (at least as if) he were an adult capable of reasoned and polite dicourse of some value; no matter how he replies. That will be his steep learning curve, where his usual handful of tricks from his toybox are most useless.

    The blogger however, should set the blog up so that he or she has the power of the switch (ie moderation). I am not sure if this is possible on Facebook, as I never go there. Or to Twitter etc. Either that or follow the examples of Norman Geras and others, and allow emails but no commenters.

    Just a suggestion.

    NB: I recommend Eric Berne, ‘The Games People Play’. A bit dated, but good.

  39. 39
    Silentbob

    @ 34 Ophelia Benson

    :-)
    Ophelia, I am constantly in awe of your indefatigable sense of humour. Respect.

  40. 40
    Ophelia Benson

    [takes a bow]

  41. 41
    xmaseveeve

    Hi Rrr! ‘Till Death Do Us Part’ was a wonderful sitcom featuring a racist, hilariously self-deluded man who calls his wife ‘Silly Moo’. It was sharp, groundbreaking. Alf Garnett always came off worst. I think the US had a version called ‘All in the Family’(?)

    Alf was played by the superb, underrated actor, Warren Mitchell. One night, he (the actor) was in a bar, and a thug approached him enthusiastically and said, ‘Love you mate, for taking the piss out of the pakis’. Mitchell put down his pint, turned, and calmly replied, ‘No mate. It’s people like you I take the piss out of’.

    A similar thing happened when spoof talkshow host, ‘Mrs. Merton’, who always had a studio audience of nice, jolly pensioners, mocked Manning’s racist act. The audience sided with him! Caroline Aherne said she had not anticipated that reaction. It was uncomfortable to watch all the laughing, racist faces.

    If a guy were to approach Richard Dawkins with a remark thanking him for sticking it to the women, I’m sure he would not say, ‘Oh, cheers, pal’. I’ve been a bit out of the loop recently (and loopy!) but I’m sure he will apologise after this shocking development, at least for not providing an idiot’s disclaimer for readers with no sense of irony.

    I hope he catches up with the controversy during his lecture tour.

  42. 42
    Rrr

    Xmaseveeve: Aha, thanks for the background. It makes more sense now. I seldom watch tv, and those shows may not even have aired here. We can’t know how he thinks, but it would surprise me if nobody in all this time had actually mentioned the effects his faux pas has promulgated. My idea was simply that someone well-placed might take this opportunity to do that at Rival. (A former cinema, part of a chain where all had names on Ri- Rio, Riviera, etc.)

  43. 43
    Amy Clare

    Even very recently Dawkins retweeted a woman saying ‘Well I’ve never experienced sexual harrassment in the atheist movement’ or words to that effect.

    He’s still part of the problem.

  44. 44
    xmaseveeve

    Rrr, it’s 23rd Dec! I’ll reply to you in a minute, but wanted to say something about the ‘women are always looking for misogyny’ tweet.

    Yes, as I’ve said before, Richard Dawkins can be a little out of touch with women’s experience of misogyny, and how small unchallenged incidents of sexism create a culture for rape apologists. I received Richard Dawkins’ retweet, and I answered the young woman with sarcasm (from the Greek, ‘ripped apart by dogs’, I believe – so I WAS a bitch)! Only etymologically, and to the seriously humour-challenged.

    The young woman is obviously naive, and has not (yet) suffered that which millions of women suffer every day. I know she’d be furious, and I’m not being patronising, but I felt sorry for her. I hope she doesn’t have to be strangled until even the police think she’s dead, before she becomes politically aware. (This is what happened to me.) But she’s a misogynist-enabler, all the same. It reminds me of how the likes of William Lane Craig scramble around for examples of scientists who believe in ‘God’. Misogynists will cite such anti-feminist women, to show feminists that we are freak harridans. It’s very similar.

    At one point, I referred to ‘Auntie Thomasinas’. I said it with wit and irony, but, instead of taking my points on board, she called me a ‘Moron’ (which hurt), then quote-mined me, and accused me of things I neither said nor implied! I was shocked. Instead of defending her position, she had instantly turned into a raging troll! Like a cup-a-soup. Methinks she doth protest too much, but I’m no psychologist, and she may be no job for an amateur!

    I tweeted her back, a nice tweet. I think she was taken aback. I received a reply asking why I’d suddenly gone from being (bla bla, whatever I was) into being conciliatory. I had simply looked at her lovely photograph, and, unless it’s a very old photo, concluded that she was young. I told her that when I was younger I may have thought as she does now. (Not over the age of 17, though, in my case.)

    I hope she has a re-think. I’ve forgotten what I was going to say now. The post is over – ‘thought I’d something more to say…’ Happy Thursday, all! (Especially Cooper, and I hope his paw is on the mend.)

  45. 45
    John the Drunkard

    I don’t think anyone is going to see this, but I still need to reply.

    Lauren: “No, it’s behavior that is supported and enabled by the wider culture those individuals swim in. Why are you so anxious to chalk it up to a few “sociopaths”, when big cultural change is obviously indicated?”
    Jpsh “This is NOT about individual pathology. It’s about rape culture, casual sexism and societally endorsed misogyny.”

    If this is true, where were you two years ago? Why did this explosion follow one woman’s reasonable objection to the creepy behaviour of one man?

    Bloviating about ‘white male priviledge,’ and ‘rape culture,’ does precisly NOTHING to stop rapists. Venting at Dawkins is only possible because the ‘wider culture’ still insists on protecting the guilty instead of the victims.

    Butterflies and Wheels, if you check the top of the page, is about ‘fighting fashionable nonsense.’ That includes silly academic posturing; the sort of stuff that includes calling Newton’s ‘Principia…’ a ‘rape manual,’ or claiming that E=MC squared is a ‘sexist equation’ because it ‘priviledges’ the speed of light.

    I am not a rapist. My posession of a Y chromosome and my ability speak English are not evidence to the contrary. My job, as a morally responsible adult, is to oppose evil when and where I see it. It is not my business to whine about being a ‘nice guy,’ nor to explain at length how in the Dictatorship of the Proletariate we won’t have such troubles.

    Elsewhere, I have detailed my own experience with a violent, misogynist stalker.

    I found that people who put immense effort into striking high moral attitudes, and mouthing empty phrases about ‘big cultural changes’ were paralysed by their unwillingness to even consider the evil that was in front of their faces. I was demonized for daring to mention felonies I had seen this man commit.

    Jen has suffered the consequence of stirring up a hornet’s nest of vicious thugs. Thugs enabled by the anonymity of the internet to spew venom without constraint. The atheist community DOES include some toxic subcultures, Ayn Rand idealized rapists and serial killers and her followers exhibit a moral obtuseness that is disgusting to see; Stalinists are still rationalizing mass murder and reducing individual suffering to empty symbolism. These cultures do some enabling.

    The biggest enabling going on is our failure as a community to register direct disgust and revulsion to the ACTS Jen and others describe. This includes things like naming names and boycotting vicious persons. Dawkins is guilty of addressing the (very) large issue in (very) small terms. Where were you before elevatorgate?

  46. 46
    callistacat

    John the Drunkard

    Are you drunk right now? What the f do you mean by “where were you before “elevatorgate” and “striking high moral attitudes”? Lauren and Josh are spot on, this is what women have been dealing with way before it caught your attention with elevatorgate. We’ve been dealing with a toxic culture for centuries. It’s in our daily lives AND in the whole f***ing culture.

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