“Volunteer ministers” from the Church of Scientology are descending upon Haiti to help quake victims. That’s great! Oh, wait, how are they helping them? By using magical touching powers to reconnect nervous systems:
“We’re trained as volunteer ministers, we use a process called ‘assist’ to follow the nervous system to reconnect the main points, to bring back communication,” she said.
“When you get a sudden shock to a part of your body the energy gets stuck, so we re-establish communication within the body by touching people through their clothes, and asking people to feel the touch.”
Thank you, Scientology, for being completely worthless and insane. People are injured and dying, and you’re going around poking people. You’re doing more harm then good by making people think that they’ve actually received some sort of medical care, when you haven’t done diddly squat.
I love the skeptical quote from the doctor, which sums up things quite nicely:
Some doctors at the hospital are skeptical. One US doctor, who asked not to be named, snorted: “I didn’t know touching could heal gangrene.”
Indeed. Maybe the Scientologists could enlighten us on this wonderful healing power? It would certainly make universal health care more viable, if all we had to do was touch people.
I completely agree, Jen.However, touch is a necessary ingredient for those of us with nervous systems. Preemie babies who are touched and massaged do better. The woo-woo thought, which may have some truth, is that the brain extends throughout the body via the sensory motor system. (Loving) stimulation helps the brain to form neural connections, and along with the care and concern of another person, may well have beneficial effects on one's traumatized mental state. Nuff said – have you touched a human today?
L. Ron Hubbard would be so proud. Xenu is pissed at the moment.
Why do I somehow think that they are poking people who they find attractive or rich in a lot of cases?
The Scientology Handbook informs us that this Touch Assist technique will also work on injured dogs or cats. And, you don't have to put clothes on them before beginning the procedure. However, it does suggest that the minister/therapist wear "thick leather gloves" as the animal may bite or scratch. I always knew my dog was smarter than Tom Cruise.
Assist? Scientologists are pokemon! Scientolgists are skittys!
Devestated Hati appears!Go! Scientologist!Scientologist used assist!Scientologist used 'feeeeel the touch'.It is not very affective.Devestated Hati has fainted.
" It would certainly make universal health care more viable, if all we had to do was touch people."– I can just see your HMO telling you that you weren't covered for touching. After all, you've been touched before, so you must have a pre-existing condition.
Let's build a thunderdome for the christian scientists and scientologists to battle for the rights to heal people with worthless methods. If God or whatever-scientologists-believe-in is on their side, may it be proven in the greatest arena man has to offer for religious kooks.
Veritas, I almost tried to trace over your comment so I could "retweet" it. I'm addicted to Twitter.
You think that's all they're doing? Hah. If only that was the worst of it. Scientology "volunteer ministers" rock up, use other people's tents, use OTHER VOLUNTEER ORGANISATIONS' FOOD TO FEED THEMSELVES, and are usually considered a nuisance by every other help agency on the ground. The only reason they're there is to have very obvious yellow jackets, which can be photographed and used to siphon more money out of members.
Have a look here for more details:http://askthescientologist.blogspot.com/2010/01/church-of-scientology-loves-disasters.html
Oi-fucking-vei. That is some fuck-tastic idiocy.
Wow. That's… I have no words.
I'm not sure which I think is more absurd, this or the electronic talking bibles…
The fact that actually helpful people could be there using the same transportation resources that were used to send idiot Elronners makes me physically sick. Reminds me of that Tom Cruise video where he rambles on about how he has to stop for car accidents or whatever because he's the only one that can help. WTF, really, just WTF.
This is seriously not funny. And I didn't even read the details.
mcbender: They are equally absurd, but I think Co$ is doing more harm and making more profit. Judge the harm, not the weirdness.
It's interesting how you all complain about these people that actually took the time out of their lives, jobs, kids, etc… to fly out there and at least try to help those there…. I mean most of them have jobs and their own stresses, but they left that behind to go and try to help as best they could. Yeah yeah, you may not agree with what they are doing, but at least there ARE there trying to help while you all are sitting on your buts crying about it on the computer because you don’t agree with their beliefs or practice. What are YOU doing to help? So far if you look through the news articles there is actually more support for what they are doing, including words from those who have received these touch assists and are quite happy with them. There is nothing wrong with using what you knwo to have helped you, to try to help others. Hands on healing has been recorded through out history and is and has been used not just by Scientologists. Why must it be thought as a bad thing, how is it harming and how is it preventing medical treatment as well? They were flown out WITH real doctors for heavens sake, I am sure since they are working with them, then they are not getting in each others way, but more so supporting one another. As well for the bibles, that is not going to help the hungry or buy someone a new home, but at least it is some kind of hope for the people, main point is at least THEY are trying to do something about it and help! Quit your complaining and maybe try helping yourselves.
"What are YOU doing to help?" I'm funding real doctors to help. Sure, magic touch doesn't necessarily hurt people (unless they actually think that they received care for potentially life threatening injuries), but the point is that people who actually know what they are doing should be the ones funded instead of electronic bibles and magic touch. Now, I am not medically trained, so I would not be of much use compared to paying for something like antibiotics. Regardless of how much effort and conviction is put into "helping" the victims, it does not mean that they actually are helping them. Just like when someone is having a heart attack, performing the Heimlich Maneuver won't help, even if you believe that it does; rather, call the ambulance and get some real professionals to help. So, after the trauma units have been fully staffed and medical supplies in abundance, then I won't complain about the scientologists touching people; well, not as much….
That's why they also FUNDED medical doctors to go with them, as well as antibiotics and are even assisting the doctors by handing out antibiotics as requested. As well as the people themselves have been thankful for the Scientology people's help, so again who and what are they hurting? And again at least they are there trying to help! They had 3 flights head out with their Scientology people, as well as doctors, nurses and even trained paramedics. They I would say are doing a LOT more then other groups out there. So as far as I can see all this complaining is nothing more then that of intolerant people. Your points are not assisting the efforts. Nice that you donated money, as well as I have, but I am certainly not going to complain about people who actually took time out of their own lives and pockets to actually fly down there and lend a helping hand, in addition to helping by sending trained medical personnel to assist. They did not have to do that now did they, but they DID.
Dear Scientologist commenting here: you make me laugh. You didn't 'fund' doctors to go to Haiti; you merely offered them a lift on the planes you'd prepared for your VMs. (I'm commenting here on the actions of the Church; if any individual Scientologists donated to a real help organisation instead of to the IAS, I commend them for it.)
However, one of your planes LEFT SEVENTY DOCTORS BEHIND.
http://www.ny1.com/8-queens-news-content/top_stories/112541/boarding-mixup-grounds-medical-mission-to-haiti
And yet, you took thousands of dollars worth of their medical equipment and medicines with you, which you have no training to use, and which will probably not be well looked after until the real doctors who know what it is get there. Can anyone say: fail?
Ugh…why can't they just go to Haiti and proselytize honestly instead of interfering with medical treatment?
Isn't it great that the scientologist in the article was able to heal that man's bruised and swollen leg? BRUISES and SWELLING? Why isn't she laying hands on people with crushed chests and traumatic brain injuries?
You want to go down and hold people's hands, smile a lot and offer comfort, then great…that makes you a decent human being. But this…as dotlizard succinctly put it – WTF?
@anonymous saying "Dear Scientologist commenting here: you make me laugh. You didn't 'fund' doctors to go to Haiti; you merely offered them a lift on the planes you'd prepared for your VMs"
Really, and who said I am a Scientologist? Why because I don't complain at them trying to help? Actually buddy I am a devote Catholic, born and raised. I have read all your clippings that you reference as well as I have read all articles pertaining to it, and as has been said and proven, they have sent their people PLUS doctors, medical supplies, food, etc.! The point being, they are at least there trying to help! They are not sitting behind their computer screens complaining about all those Catholics that went out and sent bibles, they are there assisting in what ever way they know how to. You here complaining about it, with such a tragedy is rather disgusting, get off your own buts and get out there and do something as well then. I have sent money to assist, as best that I could with my means, I respect those that actually took the time out of their own lives, they also have jobs, kids, responsibilities, but they dropped theirs so that they could help, which is more then anyone here is doing, besides complaining. Again, WHO HAVE THEY HURT? I do not see the Haiti’s complaining, only those hiding behind their computer.
Anonymous, you are right, they are not causing no harm, but are helping with what they can. That is a lot more then most people are doing.
They were not the cause of other planes unable to get in, that was the airports and governments faults in their rather unorganized handling of the prediction and factual amount flying in.
In addition the Scientologists brought food and medical supplies. Not many other groups have done the same thing, most other religious organizations are either kidnapping kids to convert them, or sending in their books. Yes the scientologists brought in their own litterateur, but at least they brought it in with food.
I still think scientology is a quackery, but who am I to judge the goodness that they are doing. I myself have done nothing to help, as not have most. And “anonymous” is right, at least these people took the time out of their own lives, dropped all their own problems to head out to another country in need, to help. Why are we complaining -it's sickening, are we forgetting the actual problem here, and now focusing on hate towards a cult that is least there helping?
Peace and all that.JW
ignore what I said on January 25, 2010 5:45 PM. I was being an idiot. You are right, at least they are there helping with what they can. Once I looked past the media propaganda and actually looked at what they are doing, instead of just looking at the biased opinions, I saw that yes in fact they have done a lot to help, and it's true the Haiti people are thankful for it, and that is what is important. Not my prejudice views, but those actually helping this poor devastated place.
I pray for the Scientologists and wish them well in all those they are helping. The girl who created this blog is beyond naïve.
Dear random anonymous readers calling me naive,
The Scientologists are not helping. Their motives are not to help, it is to get free advertisement for Scientology. That is why they're shipping down people with neon yellow shirts that prominently advertise their name.
They are using space, supplies, water, and food that could otherwise be used by REAL doctors and people with actual useful skills. They are duping people into thinking they have received some sort of medical care, when they have not. Will these people ever get the real treatment they need, or will they think magical touching actually cured them?
It is a publicity stunt and nothing more. They would have done more good by donating like everyone else and staying home. You are the naive ones for thinking otherwise.
“They are using space, supplies, water, and food that could otherwise be used by REAL doctors and people with actual useful skills”
*****They were the ones who actually brought all you wrote here out there you dumb girl. Even the Haitians are quoted as saying the Scientologists brought more food and medical supplies and doctors then ANY other religious group there helping. Unlike those other religious groups that were actually there kidnapping kids. Where are your blogs about them? Or all the bibles sent? How come no blogs about those? It is obvious you are being prejudice here and nothing more.
“The Scientologists are not helping. Their motives are not to help, it is to get free advertisement for Scientology. That is why they're shipping down people with neon yellow shirts that prominently advertise their name”.
****How is it a publicity stunt? None of these individual Scientologists out there DOING this are actually named, or receive some kind of fame for it, no one will know that individual either when they go home. They still took the time out of their work and life to do what they are doing, What are YOU doing besides creating blogs that spread hate at a time like this. Get on board or shut up already.
You are EXTEMELY naive and stupid, and having read other blogs of yours, very closed minded. You follow the media as though it is factual 100% of the time. Where else do you get your info from? Surely not the Haiti’s themselves, as if you did then you would know they feel they have helped and are thankful for it. No you stick right with your only source, the internet and the news, which no one has to fact check before they post on it. But if you actually LOOKED, instead of having your eyes closed and ears plugs so you can go "lalalalala, look how mean the Scientologists are helping those poor Haitians" and play dumb to it all. The facts are, and again if you actually LOOK, they ARE helping, they have shipped FOOD, MEDICAL SUPPLIES, DOCTORS, and their own volunteers. I am a Catholic, I don't support Scientology, but I am not going to knock these individual Scientologists who are actually there doing what they are doing out of their OWN time and money to help those in need. And if you ever actually decide to not just read into biased sites or sites that spread hate, and LOOK at all they have actually done, you will see it yourself, or you are just too plain stupid to see past your own naive opinions that matter NOT.
I didn't blog about the Bibles or the kidnappings because every other atheist blog did. If you know anything about my blog, which you obviously don't, you would know two things:
1. I don't cover articles that have been covered to death by everyone else. The only time you'll see a popular article here is when no one else has really posted it yet, or I have a novel point to ad.
2. As someone who lives in a Christian dominated society, I harp on Christians so much that it gets boring. I'm not targeting Scientologists, I'm just pointing out their stupidity as well.
It is a publicity stunt FOR SCIENTOLOGY, not for the individuals. These people are probably going out of the kindness of their heart because they don't know any better, but Scientology as a whole is just using them.
I am not personally flying down to Haiti because I would be useless there. Not just useless, but in the way. If you're not a medical professional or trained in some sort of way useful for relief, you shouldn't go there.
Feel free to continue trolling my blog to feel morally superior. Or better yet, fly to Haiti yourself, since you think that's what every being on earth should be doing. Not only will you be getting in the way…I mean, helping them, but you will stop annoying the rest of us because you won't have internet access.
tldr; If you don't like my blog, you can kindly fuck off
Wow … looks like that sanctimonious douchebag really got under your skin, there. It’s always amusing – to the point where it becomes boring, ironically enough – how self-righteous assholes are the first to call others hateful, ignorant, stupid and the likes – without even realizing how massively hypocritical and obtuse (in addition to hateful, ignorant stupid and the likes) they themselves are being.
Hell, I almost wish I got morons like that on my own blog. It would be entertaining … I just don’t get angry at nonsense from idiots. It either amuses me or bores me, but it never really aggravates me.
You could make a case study out of it or something. Get a fast-track to a PhD in Internet sociology or something. =P (Hey, that could be a real field at some point …)
Usually I ignore the trolls, but I'm having a bad day and the last thing I want to see cluttering my inbox is this bullshit.
you call a person a troll because they disagree with your biased opinions and then express their own? You obviously have a problem with freespeech Jen. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then don't openly promote your niave opinions. I completely agree with the other two, or even if it is one person, you are quite naive and are basing your opinion purely on what the media promotes. You do not look, you only listen. I don't agree with them calling you stupid, there be no need for name calling, but you are not even trying to see their points, instead just robotically answer with the same old one-track blabs. I suppose I must be a troll now too since I as well see through your biased opinions.Take care but grow up a bit.
If believing that unscientific, magical touch healing is bullshit makes me a naive stupid hypocrite, then I rather be a naive stupid hypocrite. People disagree with me all the time on my blog, and if you read my posts you'll see I actively encourage it. However, I don't encourage self righteous concern trolls who paint me as an Evil Baddie because I dare speak out against Scientology. You have your opinions, and I also have the right to defend myself on my own blog. Notice how I didn't delete their comments. If you have a problem with me stating my opinions on my own blog and with free speech going both ways, you're welcome to go read another blog.
Wiki definition of a troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who post inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
People making genuine points against you (on topic) doesn't make them trolls. The only mildly trolly thing they did was call you stupid (possibly an attempt to cause an emotional response, unless they genuinely think you're stupid). You responded by freaking the fuck out. I think this could be the first recorded case of someone trolling their own blog (you're inflammatory, and off-topic). Feel free to call ME a troll, I actually fit the definition (off-topic).
-30 internet points for misuse of a meme.
therealanonymous
they must be trolls because they disagree with you? Speak out all you want against Scientology, but you are using a sworld ituation when they are one of the few groups that is actually helping, no matter how idiotic what they are doing is. These people all left their own lives behind to go and help. All you can do is sit here and whine about it, yeah I agree grow up. You are focusing on their touching thing, yet completely ignore the fact that they brought out all those supplies, doctors, food, et. which is more then any other group has done. So you pick on their religious beliefs and then attack anyone who calls your focus as bigoted and naive, basically if they disagree with you a call them a "troll"…. Yeah great you did not delete their comments, but you acting childish regarding them is pointless. Take a chill pill already and relax. People don't have to agree with you, and I have to agree your opinions are rather naive, from what I can see even from your other blogs. But that is my opinions and theirs. GET OVER IT.JW
I wouldn’t agree that they’re “trolls” (which I think is a word being used far too loosely these days), even the vile shitheaded one earlier. More like “arrogant idiot” in his case, and “self-righteous bores” for others … but not “trolls”. A troll is someone whose sole purpose is to spark flamewars and arguments, including saying things they don’t believe in themselves.
But then, I’m not gonna lecture anyone on terminology, so off I go … *whistles as he walks away*
… And now I really wish I’d previewed my last comment as to not basically repeat (albeit much more intelligently and less hypocritically – I hope) what the previous two just wrote.
Argh. (Sorry, Jen. =()
I usually just ignore them, but the fact that they kept going back and forth slandering me warranted me defending my opinion.
Concern troll: A person who posts on a blog thread, in the guise of "concern," to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, control, the dialogue. It is viewed as insincere and condescending.
Someone is wrong on the internet, etc etc
well I don't agree with anything any scilon does as part of anonymous, but I agree that perhaps those people who went out there are truly wanting to help. we have a problem with how their organization is run, not the people who believe in it. To each their own. Catholics are also out there promoting god, each religion I guess is doing their own. But I did hear that the scilons brought out supplies such as more food then any other group and doctors and medical supplies, so god bless them for that, and I find think those complaining are not the best intended people. As for our host here, I have to concur, grow up /b/tard, not everyone is going to agree with you, but don't mess around our terms, check what a troll actually is, a person is not a troll just because they have their own opinion and it doesn't fit your high and mighty one, dont act so buthurt.
Thanks for the laugh, the idea that /b/ is the definitive voice of language and slang is pretty darn funny. Especially when you're not even aware of other internet slang: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=concern+troll
Going back on topic, here's some new information on these wonderful, helpful Scientologists from the point of view of someone who was on the plane with them: http://gawker.com/5462117/scientologists-in-haiti-a-firsthand-account?skyline=true&s=i
I don't care how much good the Scientologists may or may not be doing, if they're also causing active harm at the same time. "Touch healing" or whatever they call what they are doing is precisely that.
They are tricking people into believing they've received genuine medical care when what they are actually getting is, at best, placebo. The same is true of all "alternative" therapies: they do more harm than good by causing the subject not to receive treatments that may actually do them some good.
The fact that these people are affiliated with Scientology is largely irrelevant, though that seems to bring out the concern trolls. The fact is, they are QUACKS, plain and simple, and they are doing the people they are "helping" a disservice.
Scientology, of course, is fun to attack because it's so ludicrous, but I see no need to do so here. It's simply not necessary when there are far more serious reasons to condemn this behaviour.
Main definition of concern troll: someone pretending to be on your side. A la wiki: "A concern troll … attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals…" This is backed up by Urban Dictionary's number one listing (not the number two listing you used). I don't think anyone is claiming to be on your side. Therefore, not a concern troll. May I suggest "jerk"?
-60 internet points for repeated misuse of the almighty meme
-30 internet points for me, for wasting my time looking up "concern troll" to make a point
therealanonymous
Oh noes, all my internet points being taken away. I am crushed, deflated. I will go sob in a corner at the revelation that words can only have one meaning.
Lol, trolls are so cute. They're like stray cats. You feed them, and they don't go away.
@"http://gawker.com/5462117/scientologists-in-haiti-a-firsthand-account?skyline=true&s=i"*** and how is there proof to anything this person says? That could have been written by ANYONE, yet again MOAR proof that you follow blindly anything that you hear. You do not look at both sides, a very judgemental person is what you are. And that is ONE person (if real) versus all the others who appreciate what they have done and are doing, so what about them, are they all wrong and only you right because you are anal to anything negative that you hear. Again case in point, you close your eyes and go lalalalala unless it supports your opinion. You can't handle anyone not agreeing with you. A fricken cry baby. Buthurt indeed.
What a joke. so people are trolls unless they agree with your stupid blogs. don't blog if you can't hanlde opinions against. It's free speech, a person stating their opinion against yours does not make them a troll. How old are you? Did you stomp your feet and cry as well? Personally I want the f-en scientologists to get the hell out of there and any other religious nut, but with you, you lost me with your temper tantrum just because you have some people who don't share your opinion. No worries last time I waste any time at this blog site.
K, bye!
Just my two cents on the whole "troll" matter… I'm all for constructive criticism and discussing different points of view and all, but it's just ignorant when the dissenting opinion decides to fling out the ad hominem. Whatever you want to call these people, trolls or no, it's just not the right way to argue.
@zellie_kinneas great point and way of saying it. point being, argue the topic, don't fling out the ad hominem just because they disagree with you jen, and they should not call you stupid.
Argue the points, present your proof if you have any (although all may not see "I read somewhere, or this guy told me this" as proof), not everyone will see eye to eye, but at least have a mature discussion, otherwise you simply look immature and not able to actually debate. Leave the attacks asside.
no one was trolling your blog, they were responding to your blog and what they disagreed about it. I hope you learn from this, if you can't respect others opinions, then why make a blog on the internet for all to see and discuss. Maybe just type on word doc and then you can agree with yourself all you want. Yeah.
Okay. Before our beloved Jen gets a stroke by having to deal with any more of this nonsense:
@Angel:A) « at least have a mature discussion, otherwise you simply look immature and not able to actually debate. Leave the attacks asside. »
Who is this addressed to? Nowhere did Jen provoke anyone, nor debate in any matter that can reasonably be dubbed “immature”. The Anons above are the ones who A) started spewing idiotic and simplistic nonsense, followed by B) moving on to petty insults and name-calling aimed at Jen, calling her anything from immature to stupid (including ignorant), none of which are true in any sense. Jen never insulted anyone, even though some in this thread vastly deserve it. If you believe she did, then do point out examples of such.
B) « no one was trolling your blog, they were responding to your blog and what they disagreed about it. »
They were responding in a manner that’s uncannily similar to a practice called “concern trolling”, whether such was their intention or not. Also, their sanctimonious tone and immature name-calling, in addition to the fact that they’re just plain wrong, makes it rather more difficult to treat them in any other manner.
C) « I hope you learn from this, if you can't respect others opinions, then why make a blog on the internet for all to see and discuss. »
There is nothing to learn from this – other than perhaps, hopefully, not to respond to such boors. This has nothing to do with respecting others’ opinions and everything to do with the fact that they came to her personal blog which contains her personal opinions and started badmouthing her, insulting her, demeaning her – all, of course, in addition to saying nothing but utter nonsense on their part. If commenters want a blog operator to respond to them respectfully and politely, perhaps they should begin in kind.
Just an idea.
Have you even read the above conversation? Before I replied to any comments, they bashed me as being lazy, whining, and unhelpful towards Haiti (I have donated), and explicitly called me "intolerant," "naive," and possibly most triggering of all, "girl." You don't come to a feminist's blog belittling her by calling her "girl." That is not going to earn you any of my respect or patience. But notice my first reply was very patient, even after other commenters tried to explain what I was saying. It was when you persistently ignored what I was trying to say and devolved into ad hominem attacks that I gave up on civility, because you no longer deserved it. It's not that you disagreed, but that you were totally demeaning and self righteous about it.
If it were any other day, I would have never bothered to reply. But circumstances were such that I was in a bad mood, and I was sick of taking that on my own blog. I blog for fun, and I could care less how many people read it. You're welcome to disagree with me, like everyone else has, if you're civil about it. Otherwise you're welcome to leave, and I won't cry myself to sleep at night about losing a reader or two.
Free speech arguments are stupid in this context too. "Free speech" refers specifically to the government abridging your speech. Jen can abridge your speech as much as she wants because it's her blog. She is not a representative of the government.
As for scientologists getting in the way in Haiti, that's exactly what they're doing. Get the food, water, supplies, and trained professionals there, which apparently they HAVE been doing (good for them), and leave the woo at home.
~ what a joke, you call people trolls because they don't agree with your blogs. Childish much? they were not all insulting you, the only one who did was the one who called you stupid and that was based on how you responded to the opinions against u.
~ I agree don't blog if you can't handle opposing opinions. Someone who raises an argument against you is not a troll – they are just stating the faults they find in your opinion and not agreeing with you. If the only way you can counter theirs is by calling them a troll, then you will loose respect from many. If they did it as a way to change topic then yeahs perhaps trolling – but they were staying on topic and only raising opinions against yours. That is not trolling.
~ Instead of just using an ad hominem attack and calling them a troll to try and discredit their comments – why not present proof against or make a valid point that can be verified, so far you are only quoting other unverifiable sources, that is not proof, just more opinion. You are trolling your own blog! LOL and sure thing you can complain about comments against yours which you have been, but give me a break, loose the troll word considering you don’t even know what a troll is – as evident.
~ and you got the definition of a “concern troll” wrong as well, a concern troll is “A concern troll attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals…" –therefore durrrr they are not even concern trolls as they were not on your side or claiming to share your goals, pretending or otherwise, they stated their opinions right from the start for all to see and as against yours. :-P
Haven’t you and co. been discredited and dismissed enough already? Your arguments are atrocious, your reasoning is erroneous, your comprehension is lacking and your overall attitude is reminiscent of a 5-year-old who’s been told he got his alphabet wrong. Sod off already and come back when you generate a few more synapses.
Now for some tl;dr………..they were not even "concern trolling" they disagreed with your blog and stated it from the get-go, they made it clear on their intentions and how they felt, they were not pretending to have the same goal as you, their points were in disagreement with yours and nothing more, they shared no concerns only disagreements with what you wrote. Can you not handle people disagreeing with you? I am curious to look through your other blogs to see how you have treated others who differed in opinion. Hopefully this isn't a common occurrence as it shows immaturity in debates.
More on a concern troll (with examples on how they were not)
A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, ***(where did they claim to share your goals, they stated from the start they disagreed with you and felt you were naïve, the were not faking admiration or to be on the same page as you, one even called you stupid, actually you seem more the concern troll here)*** but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group. ***(so are you saying you got scared because of them expressing they disagree with you? lulz)****
For example, in 2006 Tad Furtado, a top staffer for then-Congressman Charlie Bass (R-NH), was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass's opponent, Democrat Paul Hodes, on several liberal New Hampshire blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH." "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable.
And in other words…. Get a grip! I hope your day isn’t as bad as yesterdays (hmm I seem more the concern troll now!)
"Your arguments are atrocious, your reasoning is erroneous, your comprehension is lacking and your overall attitude is reminiscent of a 5-year-old who’s been told he got his alphabet wrong."
— interesting ad hominem attack there joe, but that does not counter those opinions against Jen and the valid points they are making.
1 : appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect2 : marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made3. An argument that is ad hominem is one that has deviated from the claims being made and has instead focused on the person making the claims.
Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.
roflcopter scientologists trolls!
"scientologists trolls"so now they must be scientologists trolls because they disagree with Jen's blog? This just gets better and better, as well as the ones who posted in the main simply disagreed with Jen using the word "troll" as a way to discredit the character of the persons opposing her points, versus actually sticking to the points they were disagreeing with and countering with a constructive argument towards those. So that makes them scientology trolls now too? More so it seems Jen here is the troll.
LMFAO angry troll is angry. I guess the internets is serious business after all!
I hope you all realize that continually posting about how I can't properly use the word "troll" HAS turned into trolling because it's now completely and utterly off topic, instead of just mildly off topic. Seriously, why do you care? Go read another blog if you hate me so much, but stop cluttering my mailbox. It's just getting old.
@Anony:« — interesting ad hominem attack there joe, but that does not counter those opinions against Jen and the valid points they are making. »
Except what I wrote wasn’t an ad hominem. An ad hominem is an attack aimed at the person without really addressing the points they made/are making. Whereas, the points you write about have been addressed. Repeatedly. And thoroughly. If you can’t be bothered to A) read what others write in response fully, B) comprehend them, or C) admit you’re repeating the same obviously false nonsense over and over again, then you simply don’t merit a better answer. (Not to mention that, as you said yourself, some people are stupid or ignorant or whatever, so calling them such things is merely stating facts.)
Also, as you said yourself, statements of fact cannot be labeled as ad hominem – not usually, anyway. Sometimes, a person truly is simply thick, idiotic, foolish, ignorant, what have you. And again, those people generally do not deserve any better response than being slapped around and sent off.
For the sake of redundancy:
A) You people claim that Jen was insulting/belittling/ignorant/whatever other idiocy you came up with. She was none of these things, until rightfully angered later on as a result of being attacked and beleaguered by the condescending idiots on this thread. And, even then, she remained within levels of patience and politeness that ought to be worthy of its own prize. So: FAIL.
B) You (& co.) accuse Jen of attacking the Scientologists when they brought food/water/supplies/whatever to Haiti. This is a strawman/red herring/whichever applies. If the kooks brought some valuable and life-saving supplies and equipment to Haiti, then good for them and they shall be commended for it. But what they will NOT be commended for, is: a) bringing along their stupid nonsense and wasting everyone’s time by essentially poking people; b) fooling the gullible and the desperate into believing they’re actually treated or cured when they’re not; and c) essentially doing all this as a part of an obvious publicity stunt. If it were simply to help, they would have went as others of other faiths and organizations did: unassumingly and casually, not with the amount of honky-tonk they went in with.
Quite frankly: thanks to them for bringing supplies; afterwards, they should leave and let actual doctors take care of the injured and the ill.
C) You (& co.) accuse Jen of hypocrisy for whining about Scientologists going to Haiti without her going herself. This is pure stupidity. Why isn’t she going? Because she has no business being there. She wouldn’t be of any help; as she said herself, she – and anyone else who isn’t a doctor – would only get in the way.
D) Jen’s been accused of believing stuff blindly about Scientologists. I don’t even have to explain how utterly dumbass such a claim is. Scientologists don’t exactly hide their craziness and weirdness.
… There are probably plenty more points that have been brought up, but frankly, I’ve spent too much time dealing with this nonsense already. This matter is officially closed, unless you’ve got any novel points to bring. (Which, I assure you: you don’t.) G’day.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~@Veritas:-20 Internetz pts for not using the actual ROFLcopter. =P
[Note: was gonna paste it here originally, but after 10 mins of trying to rearrange the damn thing so it displays correctly, here’s a link to an animated version instead.]
~*~*~*~*~*~*~@Anony (another one, I presume – seriously, don’t you people have names? Or eMails?):You seem curiously inclined to adopting the behavior of the type of person you so vehemently deny being. ;-)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~Anyway, this is definitely my final post here, if only for Jen’s sake (dun wanna add my words to the amount of crap flooding her inbox, do I?)
Woah now, I believe I am the assigner of internet points on this thread. In fact, I take personal offense to your ad hominem assignment of internet points.
I think a new meme needs to be formed for the type of troll we're all being right now, "meta troll". Yes, we are trolling by accusing the other people of trolling. And now I'm trolling about you trolling about anonymous trolling, who quoted my previous post about trolling… Don't you see? We could, in fact, disrupt the fabric of the internet space time continuum.
We must all STFU and GTFO before we destroy the internet (and that is serious business).
As for whether anonymouses have emails or names, I don't think so. I think we may be a vaguely existent quantum internet entity (think higgs-boson). But who am I to say? I'm just a probability cloud.
therealanonymous
@ ~*~*~*~*~*~*~Look up the definition of "Anonymous" you quacker. People choose "anonymous" because they wish to remain ANONYMOUS. And what about you? You write your name with symbols, I don't see any e-mail associated or real name.
I would say this topic has gone way off course, but the trolling and diversion was started by Jen trolling her own blag.
And then there is Joe (who obviously has a crush on the girl), who at least is sticking to more of the topics, he is bringing up the points that were the whole point of the blag, although I would say he is missing the others points on what their problem was, don't see many at the defense of $cientology, only at Jen's bullshit counter that a person disagreeing with her opinions must be a troll.
Anyway, not to carry it on any further, but Jen should not be blogging (although of course is her right, no matter how crybabyish she is). I have read other blogs of hers and it is generally the same thing, once someone disagrees with her, she comes back with an ad hominem attack versus addressing the counter-points.
Not too mature if you ask me.
But of course no one asked me.
Right back tot rolling I go!
"AlsoThe RealAnonymous"
As someone who apparently loves evidence so much, show me a single example of another post you found where I fling ad hominem attacks at someone who disagrees with me. Actually, show me two, since you insist this happens frequently.
I replied to all of the claims and disagreements people made about my post. Other people replied as well. It's all of you who seem to be ignoring those responses.
I also find it highly amusing that you feel like there's some sort of standard or requirement for blogging. I do it for fun, not for popularity or for pats on the back. The idea that I'm going to stop because someone doesn't like my blog or my ideas is hilarious.
Jen the point was, YOU started this. YOU called them trolls in the first, before all of this troll shit even started. You called them trolls simply because and RIGHT after they shared their disagreements with your blog about the $cientologists in haiti and shared their own opinions on it. That was when you called them trolls, it was not after all the troll shit came up. YOU diverted off the topic and attacked their character, thus an ad hominem attack, by basically saying they are simply trolls and how you normally ignore trolls, and all they did to get such a classification was share their own opinions on the scilons in Haiti and how they disagreed with you.
Thus it is clear as even with your other blags, you cannot handle oposing opinions. Surely continue to blog, but I don't think you diserve much respect since you cannot even respect the opinions of others if it even slightly does not match your own. Even scroll back to see yourself, you called those that disagreed with you ABOUT YOUR BLOG a "troll" and they were even on topic, they were discussing your blog and what they thought of the $cientologists. The rest started in response to YOUR divertion off topic and attack on THEIR character.
Such a class act.
1. People posted concerns about why I was wrong. Commenters repeatedly replied to these concerns. Original posters ignored all replies, and repeatedly talked about how I was naive and not addressing issues.
2. I came and personally addressed the issues being stated because they were obviously ignoring the other commenters.
3. Original posters continued to be oblivious to any sort of discussion that was going on, and derailed the thread by falsely attacking our intelligence and honesty, even though we replied to their claims.
4. I got sick of people being passive aggressive jerks, and asked them to kindly fuck off. And you know what, I shouldn't have succumbed to being provoked, since it has continued to make more people act like jerks.
Notice how I'm letting you post whatever you want. Notice how I'm not censoring this discussion, not editing my posts, not banning people no matter how much they ignore me. I don't have to be fair to all of you on my blog if I don't want to, but I support people being able to speak their mind. I support people disagreeing with me. I support people making their own judgments of character by reading posts.
None of you can point out a single post where I have silenced or reacted harshly to a dissenting opinion, because I don't. You're the ones calling for integrity, yet you have none.
I am done commenting here until someone can produce at least two examples of me reacting harshly to dissenting opinions. That must not be hard, since you claim to have seen it. If you want to continue to chip away at my character, go ahead. Submit my name to the "Bad Meanie Blogger Police." I honestly don't care. I love blogging, I love sharing my opinions, and I love hearing other peoples opinions. Some people bitching at me isn't going to stop me. If that's what you want, I suggest you hit "unsubscribe" and delete my link from your bookmarks.
Have a great day,
Jen
back to the topic. You blog here is wrong. I have family in Haiti, and they have spoken of what the scientologists are doing for them there. Especially with the food they have supplied and as well the medical personnel they brought in. They are very grateful for it. The one you mentioned above is one person, if they are even real, but from what I have heard the majority of the people in Haiti are thankful for them, as well as the governments are thankful for any and all the help they can get. They are also quoted as being the most organized. What happened at the airport when the flights got delayed was not the scientologist’s fault but the airports as they had not planned for the mass amount that would need to fly out (not even including the Scientologists). Do you have any actual facts to back up what you wrote here? Because factually the scientologists did bring in medical supplies, and doctors, and food which is more then other groups have done. And having heard from my family there, they are grateful for it. Please do not call me a troll as you have called others, for stating my opinion as well. Many thanks.
And Thanks for your time.
Note of interest: I’ve just blogged about a personal first-hand account of someone who flew down to Haiti along with those Scientologist “Volunteer Ministers” and described, in detail, just how utterly incompetent, useless, and at times even harmful, they were. They DIDN’T bring their own supplies; rather, they planned to buy food to redistribute … at the Port-au-Prince airport store. All they appeared to bring – other than designer boots (which just speaks about their incompetence) – was a large tent for touch-healing. And that’s when they didn’t actually cause trouble, such as when they gave food to patients who were supposed to fast before surgery, thus causing time-consuming complications.
So, as Jen and anyone else should say as well: QUAAAAAAAAACKS …
To "They DIDN’T bring their own supplies; rather, they planned to buy food to redistribute … at the Port-au-Prince airport store. "
Well that is strange considering there are even videos and news cast showing them with the supplies they brought, both loading the supplies and food onto the plane and off the planes when they arrived in Haiti, so was this make-believe? And the food my family received was clearly noted as donated and brought by the church of Scientology, so now is my family lying?
You believe some person, that no one else can see, just claim it as "personal first-hand account of someone who flew down to Haiti". Show me a link of the ONE person speaking and saying so? I can supply you with several links of several people saying the complete OPPOSITE of what you just said, but because ONE person who cannot be proven has some account then that must mean all those videos showing the actual supplies with the scientologists are all false plus all those people including my family in Haiti are lying? And all the other news broadcasts lied as well?
I am having a hard time understanding how you can conclude such from lack of proof and where proof is showing otherwise. You must be biased on it, as there is no way you would ignore the facts if you were not. I prefer to believe my family, the government who also acknowledged the scientology people for all the supplies and medical people they brought, all the news shows showing them bringing the supplies, food, doctors, etc. versus this ONE person who you say says otherwise. Thanks for your time.
In the Scientoligist VM's own pictures posted on the web for "all to see" you can see them taking "Shelter in a Box" deliveries on their own compound and see those same donated tents being used by scientoligists. they are getting shelter and supplys from other relief orginizationsbecause the CoS didnt supply or plan for shelters
they do that at every disaster take relief supplys and food for themselves from other relief orginizations because the VM's are never prepared. and they are doing it again in Haitidispite of what their PR machine says.
one press release stated they served 2700 meals in Haiti do the math 135VM'sX20 Days =2700so yes they did serve 2700 meals to 135 Volunteer ministers over a period of 20 days! so no they didn't lie this time. technically
most of the food comes from the Salvation Army or were a few supplys that VM's brought along personally, or other individuals and relief orginizations gave to them. and that you can get from reading about VM named Ellen on her personal Blog site
most of what they do is a PR stunt. they do very little to help,they often exagerate the numbersthey are not a reliable source of information to what they are doing on the ground at any disaster site.
sometimes a picture is worth a thousand wordseven one from a scientology sorce
Actually "In the Scientoligist VM's own pictures and those of others, including the news stations showing videos of them arriving with all the supplies THEY brought, and with the photos showing proof of this posted on the web for "all to see" you can see them in FACT bringing supplies, and everything else they brought. Check this link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/scientologyvm/4304945541/in/photostream/
as well as actually LOOK and you will see proof of this all over the internet. In addition to actual people who are there saying so! The persons above have lied for what ever reason, as there is no way to deny the actual pictures which show them bringing in supplies, nor the actual testimonies of people THERE saying all they have done. I believe this Jen girl and that guy defending her are quite simply biased thus purposely choosing to ignore all the proof which shows them either as complete liars, or ignorant fools. Jen's only defense is to call someone a troll if they disagree with her. Brilliant debater.
here is another link which shows a loading truck FULL of food and water supplies and other supplies the Scientologists brought.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scientologyvm/4304945259/in/photostream/
I mean how much more evidence do you need? I realize Jen will stick hard to her original blog as she clearly has a problem with being proved wrong, she has to be right. But at least this should be convincing enough for the others, you cannpt deny the actual pictures showing PROOF of them doing it! Or were these photos photoshopped Jen? LOL
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