These people are just itching to start a war


So we now have another standoff with heavily armed men defying the federal government. An earlier one was when Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy felt that he should not pay the fees that all ranchers pay for cattle to graze on federal land. When faced with the threat of arrest, armed men from all over the country arrived to warn law enforcement that they were willing to fight them. That happened in 2014 and Bundy continues to defy the authorities with no action having been taken against him.

This seems to have emboldened the Bundys because now two and possibly three of his sons have traveled all the way to Oregon to take over a building in a federal wildlife refuge. The ostensible reason for their action was to protest the prison sentences given to two people for arson on federal property but neither the people they came to support nor the local community want these outsiders or their support. So the Bundy led protestors have expanded their demands and are now challenging the government’s ownership of the property and are demanding that it be returned ‘to the people’. They have called for other people to join them in their action to defy the ‘tyrannical’ government.

Tim Dickinson explains what is going on and what their beef is but it seems clear that these people are itching to start an insurrection against the government and this served as an excuse. So far, the government has acted with restraint and there have been no major calls by politicians or the media for the government to use its overwhelming power to crush the insurrection though, as many have pointed out, if the group had consisted of black or Muslim protestors, the levels of hysteria would have been through the roof and nothing would have satisfied them but to see everyone killed.

I have no hesitation in blaming the Republican party and conservative media like Fox News for this state of affairs. When you have both of them maintaining a steady drumbeat for years against the government, implying that it is tyrannical and illegitimate and its actions unconstitutional, you are creating a climate where people are encouraged to violate the law. Coupled with the easy availability of weaponry, you encourage people to think that they can actually defy the government, when the reality is that they can be easily crushed, provided no one cares about the bloodshed.

There has been much mocking of these people’s delusions but this is a dangerous situation because some seem to be seeking martyrdom. In many ways, they are just like ISIS and other groups, hoping that a major fight will spur a wider insurrection.

I would hate to see a repetition of the Branch Dravidian Waco or Ruby Ridge and have people killed. I hope the authorities are looking at alternative ways such as imposing some kind of blockade to prevent supplies getting through, and essentially forcing them to eventually give in. There is still a danger that some of Bundy’s supporters will try to break such a blockade with guns blazing but in situations such as this, the people who initiate violence lose the propaganda war and, at its base, propaganda is what this is all about.

Comments

  1. Paulo Pt says

    From an outsider perspective, this is just business as usual, let me be blunt.
    Americans with guns defying “the authorities with no action having been taken against” them is more or less what has been happening around the world for the last 60 years or so. Of course, the Americans I’m referring to are the US armed forces.
    If governments take this course of action and this is seen as normal by them and the citizens of the country, of course sooner or later this would happen domestically.

  2. sonofrojblake says

    In many ways, they are just like ISIS

    Favourite trending hashtag of 2016 so far: #VanillaISIS.

  3. Reginald Selkirk says

    I would hate to see a repetition of the Branch Dravidian Waco or Ruby Ridge and have people killed.

    The episode I feel was handled best was the Montana Freemen standoff of 1996. The government surrounded them, but did not move in with guns blazing. Rather, they took their time. Over a few months they allowed various “Patriot movement” leaders to come in and try to intermediate. One by one, these people said, “these are not patriots. They are common criminals.”

  4. raven says

    These ranchers are Moochers!!!They receive a huge amount of federal aid and money.
    1. The grazing allotment program is $1.35 per animal unit (cow + calf) per month. This is 10% of the private market value of one animal unit month.
    2. That payment is 15% of what the BLM pays to keep up the range and manage the program. The rest, 85%, is made up by…me. And you. The taxpayers.

    It’s a huge subsidy, government giveaway, welfare for white ranchers. The ranchers know it and hate the Bundys. If anyone looks closely at this program, it might well be over.

    PS If they ever had an open auction for those grazing allotments, they would also be over. There are only 16,000 ranchers on it. There are a 1000 times more people like me who would pay good money to turn them into wildlife habitat and recreation areas. These guys love free market capitalism until it doesn’t work for them any more.

  5. raven says

    One by one, these people said, “these are not patriots. They are common criminals.”

    They also received hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal aid and subsidy money. That they never paid back.

    Moochers and theives. Just like the Bundys. Cliven owes a million bucks to the federal government.

  6. raven says

    One of the problems these mor(m)ons have is overbreeding. Mormonism is a breeder cult and most of these notably the Bundys are Mormons.

    Cliven Bundy has 14 children and 50 grandchildren. So how do you support all those kids on arid land farming and running cattle? It’s not easy. You end up cheating the government and stealing whatever you can.

    The taxpayers (that is you) are paying for their irresponsible lifestyle.

  7. abear says

    One of the problems these Muslims have is overbreeding. Islam is a breeder cult and most terrorists are Muslims.

    So how do you support all those kids on arid land farming and herding goats? It’s not easy. You end up going on jihad.

  8. thexistentialhumanist says

    The US government has been on a power trip for quite a long time; arson and government property are not the reasons for starting rebellion against the government. They are just sparks to close to well fueled tinder. Recent arguments have been made putting the United States at the top of a list of countries that are at risk of civil war within the next twenty year and as an anarchist (peaceful type), i’m inclined to believe this. If you don’t think the government lies to you and wishes it had as much power over you as possible, than you are a simple minded weeb. The TSA is a good example. For a government based on protecting our liberties it is quite keen on trading our liberties for safety which no one can possibly guarantee. Our founding fathers once believed that any man willing to give up liberty for safety should be shot. Another good example of how the government takes its power to far is with the legalization of weed and other hemp products. The perfect defense against people finding out that you use propaganda is to create propaganda convincing people you don’t use propaganda. There are many more examples of the government overstepping its boundaries, but they are good at keeping them out of the mainstream and when people start to react in rebellion to the ‘last straw’ i.e. government owning land near populations it looks like people are losing their temper at nothing when there is plenty to make people lose their cool. When you think for yourself these things become clear and you can see the big picture. The government is not fighting for you it is only concerned for itself.

  9. thexistentialhumanist says

    should say ilegalisation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^of weed…
    thanks spell check/obama

  10. raven says

    One of the problems these Muslims have is overbreeding.

    Oh really? This is false.

    Islam is a breeder cult and most terrorists are Muslims.

    Oh really. This is also false. Islam is no more a breeder cult than most forms of xianity.

    There is another difference here. I’m not supporting Moslems who overbreed in the middle East, Pakistan, or Indonesia. The Arab Moslems have gotten good at turning oil into people.

    If there is a problem with too many people for their areas to support, it’s not my problem. I don’t live in Moslem land, I live in the USA.

  11. abear says

    raven@15 Muslims are the fastest growing group in the world because they are having more kids:http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/23/why-muslims-are-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religious-group/
    It won’t be long until the oil rich states run out of the revenues that have been feeding their people, they’re going to have a lot more mouths to feed, and the sort of problems we are seeing will worsen. I think that the repercussions will be felt everywhere, including the USA.
    About Ammon Bundy: I thought I heard that he owns a trucking business and got a federal loan for it. Why would he take a loan from the government? Why isn’t he dealing with the banks instead of the hated gummint?

  12. raven says

    It won’t be long until the oil rich states run out of the revenues that have been feeding their people, they’re going to have a lot more mouths to feed, and the sort of problems we are seeing will worsen.

    That might be true someday. What the Arabs are doing quite literally is turning oil into people. They pump out oil, sell it for money, use that money to buy food and goods, and make more people. They’ve already run out of cheap water and use desalination plants.

    We simply don’t know what they will do in the future and that future is a long ways away. It’s not up to us to fix their problems. They have to do it themselves.

    This is Malthusian. What usually happens is societies walk up to the Malthusian cliff, look down, and decide not to jump. The average Chinese woman had 6 kids. Up until they drew some lines on a graph and instituted the One Child policy.

  13. raven says

    About Ammon Bundy: I thought I heard that he owns a trucking business and got a federal loan for it. Why would he take a loan from the government? Why isn’t he dealing with the banks instead of the hated gummint?

    Good question. One poster said the program was for people who had dubious credit ratings and couldn’t get bank loans. I’d like to know if he is paying it back.

    Rancher Bundy’s son arrested on warrant | Las Vegas …www. reviewjournal. com/news/las…/rancher-bundy-s-son-arrested-warra…
    Jan 14, 2015 – The rancher’s 34-year-old son was arrested in August for criminal contempt and parole violations on burglary and weapons theft charges.

    One problem with having 14 kids is obvious. You are going to have a hard time giving them a good start in life. And some of them aren’t going to make it. One of his sons seems to have as an occupation…burglar.

  14. John Morales says

    abear, bah. You fear phantoms.

    Leaving aside that Islam is not an inherited trait, Muslims fight other Muslims no less than they fight anyone. Just like Christians do.

    (You’ve not heard of Yemen? 😉 )

  15. abear says

    raven@18 writes:

    Good question. One poster said the program was for people who had dubious credit ratings and couldn’t get bank loans. I’d like to know if he is paying it back.

    We have a similar program here for federal loans. They are known as the lender of last resort, because you have been rejected by the banks and you have to be desperate to accept the terms of a federal loan. My guess is their ranching/farming business is a failure and they are going to lose their assets (their land ) because of it. Hence the federales are going to steal their productive land and turn it to a useless park/wasteland type of rhetoric they’ve been using to justify their actions.

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