Ha ha. He made a slip while speaking and admitted that his invasion of Iraq was just as much a criminal act as Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Ha ha.
Former President George W. Bush: “The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean of Ukraine.” pic.twitter.com/UMwNMwMnmX
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) May 19, 2022
Ha ha. It’s funny because he’s old. Ha.
You know what? That George W. Bush can still laugh over his murderous, pointless, unjustifiable killing of hundreds of thousands of people is just another reason that man, and his cronies, ought to be in prison. Maybe he and Putin could share a cell.
I hope his dreams are populated by the ghosts of all those dead Iraqi children, and that he dies quietly in his bed knowing that his life was a net loss to humanity.
He should be sent to the Hague. Along with so many others (Kissinger to name one).
My employer is offering a series of canned “leadership” speeches featuring various celebrities and Dubya was one of them. The announcement didn’t mention that he was a war criminal.
@ 1
Now, now, you’re only prosecuted for war crimes if you lose the war in question. It’s in the Geneva Convention… somewhere.
In retrospect, even our invasion of Afghanistan was completely unjustified.
By brushing off steps to mitigate a million needless US pandemic deaths, the Republicans have established the trivial and meaningless nature of less than 3000 deaths on 9/11/2001.
Not that any or all of that justified even the Afghan war.
But now we can see the whole Bush era as being the moral equivalent of responding to the Buffalo murders by declaring war on upstate New York.
Criminal oversimplification for political gain is a crime against humanity. Bush is still eligible for a one-way ticket to the World Court in The Hague.
This is a bit disingenuous. I don’t support the guy, but the resolution passed Congress 296/133/3. Unjustified and brutal, yes. A decision made by 1 man, no.
It’s funny because he’s old.
Nah, the Shrub has stumbled and pratfalled* over his own words all his wretched life.
*Pratfell?
Shame on the late Barbara and GHW Bush for having raised such a son.
Likewise, shame on Trump’s immigrant ancestors for having raised such family members as resulted in the failure known as tfg.
This can’t be real…his entire face changes the second he says “Iraq” in the video, like a bad splice job. It’s pretty obvious.
I’d LOVE for him to have said this publicly, but for me this video isn’t really proof.
But then, I don’t need more proof to know he’s an idiot and an immoral criminal, so it really doesn’t matter in the end.
@9 I think his face changes right after he says “Iraq” because he realizes he gaffed.
I can understand why people blame Bush Jr. for allowing terrorists to hijack 4 airplanes and force them to crash into buildings in NYC and Washington, with the fourth one forced to crash land in an open field. He knew that the terrorists are going to do that. He was warned about this many times before, but did nothing to stop nearly 3,000 people from being killed. He was looking for an excuse to invade and bomb Iraq to Hell and profit off of them. Back then, Christian fundamentalists were raining praise and adulation onto Bush the same way they’re worshipping and adoring TFG now.
*worshiping
Sadly, Shrubya has never once shown that he possesses a shred of conscience, so his murderous war crimes have never cost him a second’s sleep at night.
It’s not considered a misstatement by the Muslim world. When we beseech the world community to assist us in our efforts to support Ukraine the first thing Muslims say is, Why should we? You launched illegal wars against two of our brethren nations, killed tens of thousands, and then left them in ruin. Why should we care if White Christians kill other White Christians? Why should we sacrifice anything for you? Our food and energy prices are rising because of yet another European war. Keep us out of it.
I find it very difficult to argue with them. They make a valid point. I support Ukraine, but I’m on unsure footing and feel myself falling into a deep hypocrisy hole when I try to lecture them that Ukraine is different. Not that I supported W’s wars, but simply being an American smears me with his shit.
=8)-DX @1 — “He should be sent to the Hague.”
Nope. Not happening. The US withdrew from the ICC and some admins (e.g. Pompeo and Chump) have actively opposed it, nominally to prevent US soldiers and officers being tried. And to keep presidents protected.
In 1998, the US joined 6 other countries, including Israel, to vote against the “Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court” which formalized the institution under the UN.
According to the US State Dept. in 2003 the ICC has “insufficient checks and balances on the authority of the ICC prosecutor and judges” and “insufficient protection against politicized prosecutions or other abuses”. That was when GW was in office.
Short of US politicians keeping themselves out of the ICC docket, a main point of contention is Palestinian efforts to bring Israel to the court. Israel is sacrosanct, of course. Israel voted against the Rome Statute because the treaty includes in the list of war crimes “the action of transferring population into occupied territory”.
Another big Republican crime just happened: the Republicans in a house comitte just killed an attempt to sign into law giving the authorities the legal tools to investigate price gouging by the oil companies.
.
Remember, the rising fuel prices have been the primary tool in the Republican propaganda before the mid-term elections.
The oil companies blame the rising costs on external factors but the obscene profits show they are adding a BIG profit marging by fleecing the consumers.
The Republicans (who pretend they are standing up for consumers) killed the new law saying it was extreme socialist price control.
On top of everything else the Democrats are useless at messaging, I very much doubt you will find this news items on any front page.
🤮
That was a nervous laugh. An admission of guilt.
The phrase ‘war crimes’ is redundant. War is a crime that contains all crimes. At best, it has extenuating circumstances.
War will never be prosecuted as the crime that it is, until there is a global State; but such a State could be established only by means of war crimes. As is, we already have a global Market, by means of which the most profitable crimes are already committed, without needing the crime of war.
@JoshTaylor good reminder.
I have my doubts that, in 2040 or so, Biden will be giving a speech in which he brings up how he once decided the US would brazenly pillage Afghanistan, even after the notional “end” of the war.
I’m no lawyer, but my understanding is that this is also very clearly a war crime … not that anybody seems to fucking care.
This is what aboutism.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
They just make two wrongs.
Vietnam wrong
Iraq II wrong
Russian into Ukraine wrong.
We can’t do anything about Vietnam and Iraq because we don’t have time machines. We can do something about the Russian war/genocide against Ukraine.
PS The middle east Muslims aren’t exactly known for their national family values either. There was the Iraq-Iran war which accomplished nothing and killed huge numbers. Iraq invasion of Kuwait. The ongoing Libyan civil war. The perpetual civil war in Yemen. The current Saudi involvement in Yemen. The Syrian civil war. Al Qaeda and ISIS. The Lebanese civil wars. The endless battles that involve Israel. (What have I forgotten here?)
Really, if the middle east Muslims want to play what aboutism, it is going to be a long game.
It’s not funny, but it is memorable and revealing.
Josh Taylor@5
There is plenty of blame to go around, but the Bush administration engineered this war. What would a Gore response to 9/11 look like? Probably an invasion of Afghanistan, and heavy reliance on “military experts”. Would he have gone out of his way to make up new pretexts for other wars? (Actually now that I remember his running mate was Joe Lieberman… still.)
Bush and Cheney created the pretext and an entire parallel “intelligence” organization to undermine that opinion of experts. That it was accepted by a gullible Congress, news media (with a few exceptions), and a large part of the public speaks volumes about our shared culpability as nation. At the same time, Bush was right at the center of it, if not exactly the “mastermind”. While Dick Cheney had more to do with this operationally, this war would not have happened without a POTUS following an almost medieval obsession to undo his father’s failure.
The Bush administration made up data to get the Iraq II war started. They flat out lied.
Remember the Weapons of Mass Destruction?
I do but barely. They never existed so what is there to remember.
IIRC, they were nerve gas and the Iraqi nuclear weapons program.
The US congress just followed the popular outrage at the Al Qaeda bombings and believed the Weapons of Mass Destruction lies.
raven @ #20 — “the Saudi involvement in Yemen”…Don’t forget the UAE’s involvement in the war in Yemen. The new Emir of Abu Dhabi and the president of the UAE, Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, has poured a lot of money into killing the people of Yemen, not to mention suppressing any dissent in the UAE, oppressing women, etc.
birgerjohansson @ #15 — From what I’ve read at least part of the problem with oil prices is that the oil producers refuse to increase production. Increased production has its environmental down sides, of course, but as my son says, “Capitalism starts with creating scarcity.” However, I don’t think their decision is just profit driven. If you’re old enough, you can remember how the oil producers punished Carter which helped drive him from office. I’m concerned that they are doing it again to Biden. And it’s not just US oil producers (e.g. the Koch brothers) but the Persian Gulf producers. I think the timing of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is also suspicious.
Yes, GW Bush should not be able to live out his days happily as a painter and senior statesman giving his “insight” into world events. He and his collaborators are responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of people. You can add Henry Kissinger to that list. They should all be in prison.
Further, the insanity of electing someone with the vacuity and stupidity of GW Bush made Trump’s ascension, something worse, seem more reasonable and palatable.
What would a Gore response to 9/11 look like?
Most likely it wouldn’t have looked like anything at all because Gore wouldn’t have fired the translators and would have shut the attack down before it happened. If it had occurred, though, he would almost certainly have felt the need to invade Afghanistan, but probably wouldn’t have attacked Iraq, which was perfectly innocent of the 9/11 attacks, at all.
I think the alternative history where Gore’s winning was acknowledged, he would have invaded Afghanistan after breaking up the 9/11 conspiracy and we would have been talking about how he turned out to be a warmonger.
Ukraine is a complicated question. Pogroms, primarily against Jews, have been endemic in Europe and Russia for a thousand years. Ukraine was no exception. At Babi Yar near Kyiv 34,000 Jews were murdered in 2 days, by the Nazi Einsatzgruppen with Ukraine police and civilians assisting. And thousands more by Ukrainian People’s Militia during the war.
It’s fair to say that Ukraine has progressed as a society, since they elected a Jew as their president. Likewise, the US, after hundreds of years of slavery, the Civil War, Reconstruction, the KKK, lynchings, Jim Crow, after the pogrom of Tulsa in 1921, twice elected a Black man as President. Perhaps the US has progressed as a society too.
But I would wear neither a Ukrainian flag pin, or an American flag pin.
dianne@26 I agree that the attack might have been thwarted in the first place. I admit I wasn’t even thinking along those lines, which is a serious blindspot.
In case my initial post wasn’t clear, Bush packed his cabinet with neocons who not only wanted to invade Iraq but had been writing white papers on the subject for years. This should have been a red flag to anyone paying attention. Bush also had obvious personal reasons as well for targeting Saddam Hussein specifically, despite his lack of involvement in 9/11 or al Qaeda. No other administration would have lied its way into war with Iraq like Bush’s did.
As the Onion wrote satirically but more presciently than they could have possibly known:
I think it would be difficult to tease out who did the most damage: Trump, Bush, or Reagan. Each one simply took things to the next level. (And sure, Clinton and Obama served as enablers but were still a respite from the worst.)
Note I don’t mention Nixon, who was an awful person, but not part of the same trend. Nixon was not working to destroy the very concept of civil society and render the US ungovernable (except possibly by a fascist). That started with Reagan.
PaulBC @28: I would disagree about Nixon: Nixon was the first to use the “southern strategy” (appeal to white southerners’ racism to win those states). Also, the “secret plan to end the VietNam War”, which was “nuke them to oblivion”. He was talked out of it, but that was the plan he kept waving about in order to get elected. Then there was the little Watergate incident.
That being said, I think my vote for “most damaging president since 1960” would go to Reagan. He’s the one who really whipped up the nationalism. Symbolically, he also did considerable damage to unions. Remember the saying about “first they came for the trade unionists…”? Well, Reagan came for the trade unionists and we, as a society, cheered him on. It’s been downhill from there. Trump is just the logical extension. The 1980s “if this trend continues” dystopian stories often had “President Trump” as a thing. We already knew then where this was going, we just didn’t think that it would really get there.
@19
well someone may make a speech like that at that time but I doubt it will be Biden (11-20-42) would make him well over 90 but medical science and all he may still be “above ground”
no body ever does
OT but some good news is we might not have to deal with that creep Madison Cawthorn much longer .
@25 I also wonder how we elected someone as stupid as W . Then I also remembered having nightmares when Palin was running for Vice President with McCain . What is it with Republicans and voting for outrightly stupid people
unclefrogy, #30:
Yes, that’s definitely one reason for my doubts. He would be 97 or 98 in 2040, by the way. (That year was just chosen to make it as close to an equivalent situation as possible.)
Or — just a minor quibble — possibly in an underground fallout shelter, still technically alive. And the rest of us worthless peasants … who the fuck knows?
Anyway, even if he were still giving his legendary speeches then, it’s hard to guess who would show up for it or if any of it would be intelligible to anyone, including Biden himself. But be that as it may, it’s still something we could look forward to, perhaps, if we’re “lucky.”
dianne @ #29: “…Nixon was the first to use the “southern strategy” (appeal to white southerners’ racism to win those states).”
The first to use it successfully. George Wallace is actually credited with creating the idea. Barry Goldwater exploited it in his presidential campaign, but failed. In Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class, Ian Haney-Lopez describes a campaign event Goldwater staged in Birmingham, Alabama. He had a football field covered in white magnolia blossoms and a cohort of young, white women dressed in white ante-bellum style dresses stationed around the field. He then spoke about the risks to traditional values or some malarky related to desegregation.
Done to Dale’s voice from King of the Hill…
But, he tried to kill my daddy…
robro@34: Good point. The Republican slide into fascism has been in process for a long time.
Bruce@4– IMO the Afghanistan invasion was justifiable to end the defacto state-within-a-state of Al Qaeda and to capture or kill the leaders of that organisation. The invasion that was actually implemented, though, I agree was not justifiable at all. For one thing, those justifiable goals were never strategically pursued — it should never be forgotten that it was the direct decision of Rumsfeld and Gen. Franks, against the direct advice of their commanders in the field and their intelligence operatives, to refuse to reinforce the American soldiers who had bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora, thus allowing him to quite literally walk out of the caves and into Pakistan. The historical fact is that Bush’s cabal started a war that they had no interest in prosecuting effectively or judiciously. Instead what we got was a decades-long exercise in scam “nation-building” that diverted billions of dollars to cronies/pals of the Bush team, paid in the currency of other people’s lives and limbs.
I call Reagan, Dubya, and Trump “America’s clown princes”. I will never forgive Reagan for saying that “facts are stupid things”; or Dubya for having advisor who said that “we create reality now”; or Trump for having an advisor who spoke of “alternative facts”.
@ 36. dianne : The slide into a Murdochcracy where Rupert Murdoch’s malignant media empire has corroded and warped former democracies liek the USA, UIk & Oz? That’s been a big part of the problem I’d say.
We can’t even remove a president from our money who committed genocide over almost 200 years ago.