You’ve got a smoking gun, now do something about it


So we now have this PowerPoint document that the former White House chief of staff was sharing with select members of congress. It’s blatant, advocating overthrowing the government.

Rejecting the electors from “states where fraud occurred” — I think that’s Trump-speak for Democratic votes.

“Declare electronic voting in all states invalid”, so they were going to discard legal, recorded votes.

This was a threat to commit a coup. We have it in writing. We know who the principle players were. Trump is still holding rallies and planning to run for the presidency in 2024, and there are criminal conspirators in congress still serving on committees and passing laws.

This is absurd. These were the same kooks who were changing “lock her up” about a politician who had not committed a crime. Why aren’t these traitors being arrested, stripped of their positions of authority, and held for trial? Why are the Democrats just sitting there, doing nothing but having Nancy Pelosi spam me with email begging for money? I might make a donation when Trump is in jail and everyone who received that PowerPoint is fired.

Comments

  1. Snarki, child of Loki says

    Hugo Chavez failed in his first coup attempt, but Venezuela went easy on him and released him from prison.

    Next time worked.

    The 1/6 insurrectionists, top to bottom, should be summarily executed. A nation that is unwilling to protect itself is doomed.

  2. numerobis says

    Throwing away all the electronic votes and requiring only paper ballots … aren’t all ballots on paper these days? Certainly all the mail-in ballots (where Biden was heavily favoured) are on paper.

  3. stroppy says

    Why aren’t these traitors being arrested, stripped of their positions of authority, and held for trial? Why are the Democrats just sitting there, doing nothing but having Nancy Pelosi spam me with email begging for money?

    That will no doubt draw the usual, predictable responses.

    Snarki @1
    Gitmo remains a viable option for some.

  4. stroppy says

    numerous @2
    That’s the whole point. Such things matter not one whit to sociopaths and conspiracy theorists when they can destroy a body politic’s faith in reason. It’s an end run around functioning democratic institutions.

    And it’s working.

  5. HidariMak says

    To be fair to the Democrats, these crimes are more complex than what caused Nixon to exit the White House, and Nixon’s hadn’t wrapped up after this time span either. This is also being prosecuted as a RICO case, and the ones who worked directly with Mr. Twice Impeached are facing prosecution. Before the midterm elections, Republicans such as Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert, as well as Jared Kuchner and likely Donald himself, will have their criminal charges known by the public, and the prosecutions of many will be underway. There will also be multiple public battles between some of the serving members of government, and those Trump loyalists whom Trump is publicly pushing to replace them.

    I’m not naïve enough to suggest that the midterms are already won, what with gerrymandering and the replacement of election boards already underway. But the Trump taint will be costing the Republicans some votes of independents and “classic conservatives”, including to those who vocally endorsed Trump. Trump is likely too much of a celebrity to ever go to prison, but his seventh bankruptcy is likely looming what with legal costs, and his very thin veneer of wealth and credibility will be very publicly stripped away.

  6. jsrtheta says

    Criminal investigation and prosecution of as massive a case as this is cannot be done quickly, not if it’s to be done well.

    This isn’t a prosecution of a purse snatcher. It’s an investigation of people who are still powerful, a lot of them lawyers themselves. There’s a lot going on outside of the public eye, the only way to get this accomplished.

    Oh, and Trump is never going to prison. that has never been on the cards, so get used to it.

  7. says

    PZ Myers@#9:
    Summary executions are unethical and wrong.

    Just say “he looked scary” and “I thought he had a gun” then blaze away. It’s accepted practice.

  8. R. L. Foster says

    U.S. Code, Chapter 115
    §2384. Seditious conspiracy
    If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

    I’m not a lawyer, but the first part of this seems relevant to me. Trump and Giuliani are two or more persons. (Trump would actually make that 2 1/2 persons, but I digress.)

  9. robro says

    numerobis @ #2 — “Throwing away all the electronic votes and requiring only paper ballots … aren’t all ballots on paper these days?” That is correct as far as I know. The paper ballots are counted electronically but there have to be paper ballots for auditing purposes. The paper ballots also assure voter anonymity.

  10. unclefrogy says

    @10
    the election probabilities look like that to me as well.
    No “HE” probably wont go to jail he may well flee over seas if that seems likely. May the “boss of bosses” can find him a nice safe place go to that would not have any negative consequences for himself.
    I think that the outcome that would be the most painful in his eyes would be to be striped of all his supposed wealth with no credit and have to live in a trailer park and no important people paying any attention to him. He would not last 3 years like that
    The conspirators however should all suffer the full effects of the federal criminal justice system

  11. says

    Throwing away all the electronic votes and requiring only paper ballots

    It was the paper ballots the republicans kept counting over and over, hoping that if they counted them one more time, their guy would come out ahead.

    It’s all play-acting. If the elections are manipulated, that also means that any republicans that “won” were not legitimate wins, either. They are not actually concerned with the vote; they are trying to invalidate all voting. Summary: all American politicians are not legitimate. After all, the electoral college exists to defeat the popular vote – which HRC won in 2016. Also the two party system exists to manipulate the vote by forcing the electorate into hobson’s choice, aka: the choice of no choice. Americans have tolerated southern vote suppression, the electoral college, poll watchers, Eugene Debs being thrown in prison, etc. – Americans have never struggled successfully to get free and fair elections and wouldn’t know a free and fair election if they saw it.

  12. robro says

    Ironic that Meadows sent this to the committee, then refused to cooperate. His lawyer, George Terwilliger, probably realized that Meadows has good reason to be concerned about self-incrimination. He’s already done it.

    This may be a sort of John Dean moment, or perhaps even an Alexander Butterfield moment. If Col. Philip Waldron’s public statements about showing this PowerPoint to members of Congress proves true, then all hell could break loose.

    I recall the anxious look on Ted Cruz’s face sitting in the Capitol just before being escorted to the safe area…he knew the shit had hit the fan and the fallout would be all over him and his cronies.

  13. jrkrideau says

    @ 1 Snarki

    Actually Chavez won the election “the second time round” with a plethora of international observers watching like hawks. this may have been the election where former US President Carter was an observer.

  14. HidariMak says

    @18
    My view is that as the charges against 45 start to rack up, the fundies who hope to steer the country will see their savior elsewhere, just like their love shifted from George “Dubya”. Who that replacement is will affect how much of an anchor (as in “sinks rapidly”) their current savior becomes.

    As to where he’ll likely flee to, my guess is Saudi Arabia. He already has properties there, and Russia typically treats their trusted turncoats as tissues, as either useful or used. And 45 is no longer useful to them.

  15. birgerjohansson says

    The Prince owes him for not sanctioning the country for strangling and dismembering a US citizen….

  16. numerobis says

    Saudi doesn’t seem likely to take him in; they are deep in bed with the US military and they need that to have any hope of competing with Iran. Helping the disgraced former president doesn’t help their case.

    Russia on the other hand would love to host another US irritant.

  17. robro says

    I don’t really care which “shit hole” country Trump goes to. He can go to Hell for that matter, which is the best solution for everybody…including the GOP.

  18. nomdeplume says

    “ Hugo Chavez failed in his first coup attempt”. This is back to front. The US has been constantly interfering in Venezuela (as in all South and Central American countries in the last 100 years) to try to install a right wing government.

  19. tallgrass05 says

    Democrats always bring a spoon to a gun fight. Merrick Garland is a big zero trying to look apolitical and unbiased.

  20. says

    The powerpoints aren’t even getting news media coverage. They ought to be on all the newspapers front pages, except they won’t be. It’s confirming what everyone already knows: the conspiracy was bigger than just Trump and a few of his assholes – the problem is when the implications are so large it boils down to you’d have to do massive arrests and those aren’t going to happen because the system doesn’t work that way. By definition, or it already would have happened; it should have happened but it’s too late already.

    Wait for Biden to say “we have to look forward not back” and drop the whole thing.

  21. says

    These were the same kooks who were changing “lock her up” about a politician who had not committed a crime.

    Hmmm? Oh, Hillary Clinton did commit a crime, multiple of them, just not anything that either the Republicans or the Democrats are interested in prosecuting, because they’re related to the treaties banning preemptive warfare which were signed after World War II, and of course the Geneva Conventions. (Not only did everybody who voted for the Iraq invasion break those laws, but the invasion of Libya which Hillary Clinton personally lied us into — per Obama’s statements and published post-war investigations by the UK intelligence services — was another such instance.) (And yes, those are not merely laws, but according to the Constitution itself treaties are equivalent in authority to the Constitution itself, and not subject to judicial nullification.) We’d be a lot better off if everyone who broke those laws was locked up… but that would involve jailing nearly all the elected membership of both parties, and they know it, so it’s never going to happen. But stop pretending Hillary Clinton is some kind of innocent saint, because she’s not. She’s not even an intelligent sinner, she’s an overpromoted idiot whose ego gave us 4 years of Trump, and she and her supporters should at least have the grace to shut up for everything they’ve done to us.

    @#3, stroppy

    That will no doubt draw the usual, predictable responses.

    Yes, absolutely. The predictable responses to criticism of the Democrats, which is what you referred to here, are to insist that the Republicans are worse, even though the criticism is, specifically, that the Democrats are letting the Republicans do as they please, which means they are exactly as bad as the Republicans. All of the office holders of both parties should be in the trash. A party which defends somebody like Manchin, who is already an enemy, because “he might join the other party” or “he’s the only person who can win his state for our party”, even though he is actively worse than some Republicans, is not even close to being on the side of their voters.

    @#23, birgerjohansson

    The Prince owes him for not sanctioning the country for strangling and dismembering a US citizen….

    Then the Prince also owes Biden, who has refused to do anything in that direction either, despite a lot of big talk in the run-up to the election. (And, for that matter, you could cross out the first five words of that sentence and use it as a caption for a photo of the President to illustrate basically any news story on any issue.)

    @#27, tallgrass05

    Democrats always bring a spoon to a gun fight. Merrick Garland is a big zero trying to look apolitical and unbiased.

    Garland isn’t a Democrat. He’s a Republican. That was why Obama first picked him, his party affiliation was supposed to get him through Republican opposition. Just like Biden was picked as Obama’s VP because he was a right-winger in the wrong party. Democrats have pitched their own history down the memory hole to support both of these ridiculous people, and are now scratching their pointy little heads and wondering why they won’t fix any problems.

    You wanted problems fixed? You had to give your nominations to somebody who wanted to fix them, not to people with proven center-right, pro-corporate, pro-1% records like the Clintons and Biden. The party had chances both in 2016 and 2020 to do that, and its own membership failed, and deserves all the suffering they get as a result.

  22. chrislawson says

    nomdeplume@26–

    The US government being a vile destabiliser of South American states does not preclude others also being vile destabilisers. Chavez won power on his third coup attempt. He was popular for a few years for turning over seized assets to workers and starting poverty eradication programs. All very worthy…but when he ran out of assets to seize, it turned out that his government was very good at taking over things but not at running them. The economy tanked and his programs fell to pieces.

    When his popularity faltered, he didn’t hold fair elections and respect the outcome. No, to keep power he and his regime closied down non-government-controlled media operators, incited violence against journalists, had marksman snipe protestors (18 dead, 150 wounded at one protest alone), developed paramilitary death squads, tried to fabricate charges against Supreme Court judges when he didn’t get a verdict he wanted (even though the court had supported Chavez previously) and pushed aside traditional unions in favour of criminal cartels who murdered many union leaders and activists in the struggle. In the end he turned out to be just another vicious, narcissistic dictator. The fact that many of his opponents were also violent thugs is not exculpatory.

  23. GerrardOfTitanServer says

    No, no, no. Summary executions are unethical and wrong. I’d be satisfied if we just applied the rule of law to these crooks.

    Agreed. Try them first, and when they’re almost certainly found guilty, then hang them. Last I checked, we still hang traitors, and anyone who illegally entered the capital building as part of that insurrection are traitors. And yes, I will argue that this is actual treason and not merely some lesser charge, even as defined by the US Constitution.

    I exaggerate, but only a little. What I endorse above is totally according to the rule of law. Having said that, I would hope some judicial discretion would be invoked for lesser sentences for most of them. I think at least a few years in prison (not merely a few years prison sentence which could get reduced) would be sufficient for most of them. Bring out longer prison sentences for some of the more egregious foot soldiers, and bring out stuff approaching life sentences for any leaders.

  24. unclefrogy says

    we can either have a country under the rule of law or we can have a tyranny of the right wing fiat of course it would not be a stable one in the long term nor short term for that matter. We do not have the luxury of distance and separateness we had in the 19th century. The leadership of the “Free World” is not a guarantee. I do not think sweeping this attempted coup under the rug will prevent us from letting our republic slip away.

  25. John Morales says

    we can either have a country under the rule of law or we can have a tyranny of the right wing fiat

    False dichotomy.

  26. unclefrogy says

    those seem to be the choices on offer today.
    a left wing tyranny seems unlikely any time soon
    if it is false explain where I am mistaken or where it is false

  27. unclefrogy says

    Bob Dole is dead and there are no right wing politicians around that are offering anything like that.
    there is a reason the statue of justice is blindfolded. The law is supposed to be neither right wing nor left wing especially in a democratic republic where the laws are made by the people through their representatives. All the populace are participants in the process of governing.
    The current right wing are profoundly anti-democratic and are fighting for minority rule with emphasis on rule

  28. =8)-DX says

    @The Vicar (via Freethoughtblogs) #29

    But stop pretending Hillary Clinton is some kind of innocent saint, because she’s not.

    I chuckled at that. The notion that OP or anyone in here would believe Clinton was a saint. That said, it’s good to point out whenever the US is in violation of international law and treaties, but in all practical terms that’s never stopped them, or been something the US political establishment considers themselves beholden to.

    @unclefrogy #32, #34, #36
    It’s good to remember that the Nuremberg Laws were… laws. So are all the US abortion bans, sports and bathroom (trans panic) laws, Gerrymandering and voter suppression are legal just as were the various treaties, laws and policies applying to US Indian nations and their genocide.

    Rightwingers are very much in favour of setting up the law to support their worldview and entrench their politcal position.

    If a law isn’t enforced, it’s not worth the paper its written on, similarly with the word “criminal”.
    =8)-DX

  29. says

    Why are the Democrats just sitting there, doing nothing but having Nancy Pelosi spam me with email begging for money? I might make a donation when Trump is in jail and everyone who received that PowerPoint is fired.

    That’s…not how any of this works.

    Here’s a post by Marcy Wheeler summarizing the Justice Department’s (known) activities to date.

  30. unclefrogy says

    @37
    well minority rule is not new is it.? Democracy has been a struggle from the very start what with male property owners and 3/5 people. A process was set up that could lead to real democracy it has not finished. It may never be finished. It is what I understand as the rule of law. The same class of people who were in opposition from the beginning are still working hard with the help of some very willing criminals to achieve their ends a new feudalism and the end of the republic. It is not a socialist cabal it is the powerful who believe they should rule and the greedy who desire to rule, they have always been here and must be resisted.

Leave a Reply