Man, it seems like suddenly I know a whole lot of people going through cancer treatment, and it’s more than a little terrifying. You should be reading Caine’s Cancer Chronicles if you like angry honesty about the disease.
I just didn’t have the energy to do this yesterday, but I talked about it in a correspondence with my friend in colon cancer treatment. Look at the people in that screenshot. Most of them with manic grins and poses, screaming “LOOK AT MY GOOD ATTITUDE! I HAVE POSITIVE!” Fuck that noise. I do not have a positive attitude. I don’t even have a good attitude. I have a shitty, cynical attitude, about most everything, and that certainly includes having cancer. If I lose that, I will be in serious trouble. My colon cancer friend is the same way. So, another little note: don’t go around telling a cancer patient something like “you have a positive attitude, and that’s the most important thing!” No, it’s not the most important thing. It’s not fucking important at all. What is important is whatever attitude your friend or loved one normally has is still intact and firing on all cylinders. If dark, twisted, gallows humour keeps someone going, don’t try to paint it pink with positivity. If razor sharp wit and observations keep someone going, allow that. It’s not up to anyone else to call the shots on what attitude will work best for any given person. As I said before, the person with cancer is still the person you know, they are still the same person they were before diagnosis; cancer is not a call to do a 360 on your personality and attitude.
I agree — if I’m ever in that situation, and I hope I’m not, I’ll be the guy with the snarl and the hair-trigger middle finger.
PZ:
:laughs: That’s actually happening to me right about now! Just mentioned it to partner last night. A lot of people read and participated in CC 9: Anger, I think because no one does talk about cancer. It’s treated very much like leprosy of old.
I loathe the bad science of positivity entwined throughout cancer treatment like a … cancer, but as someone noted in the CC 9 thread, there’s a big difference between that fake, grinning positivity and continuing to live your life in what is a basically positive/normal manner.
If anyone finds themselves in the position of wanting or needing to talk about cancer, from any perspective, patient, caregiver, survivor, c’mon over and join in. We don’t mind yelling.
@PZ:
Breaking Bad explores another possible response.
https://www.netflix.com/title/70143836
@Caine:
Maybe the wrong forum to ask – point me elsewhere if required. What’s your opinion on Lance Armstrong and the whole positivity promoting Livestrong thing that he used to hide behind while using performance enhancing drugs?
Sunday Afternoon:
I don’t know anything about Armstrong; it’s obvious there’s greed and hypocrisy there, though. My thoughts about the positivity crap are best expressed in Cancer Chronicles 9, linked @ 1. I have a great deal of anger about it, but it’s cancer focused. In CC 9, I talk a bit about all the people invested in “cancer preventative” bullshit, which absolutely infuriates me.
Sunday Afternoon:
And pardon me for being a sour fucking apple, but don’t bring fantasy into all this shit. Cancer is very real, all the problems it brings with it are very real, and you don’t serve anyone well by pointing to a teevee show. Cancerland is not a television show where everyone gets away with all manner of shit. Life isn’t like that.
@Caine #4:
Roger, wilco.
I am pretty sure I would whine so much someone would club me to death. When I was waiting for the morphine to kick in during my kidney stone incident, the nurses kept shooting disgusted glances my way and one said “delivering a child is worse.” The whole thing is nopeitty nope and it’s so scary because what I want and hope for has nothing to do with what happens.
My youngest sister had a positive attitude during her battle with breast cancer. If you crossed her, you’d positively have to be scraped off the walls afterwards. More than five years cancer free now.
Caine,
Damn. I am sorry you are going through this. I’ve been through it on the “support” side with my wife and several friends. Cancer fucking sucks. What sucks almost as much are the well meaning folks trying to reassure themselves that the disease is the result of some deep seated flaw in the patient’s character–anger, lack of faith, not eating right, not drinking wheat grass juice. Fuck that. When my wife was ill, there were neighbors who would run back in the house if they saw her come out.
I hope you have a strong support system and can at least take solace from them. My wishes for the best possible outcome.
Rob Grigjanis:
Tell her from me, that image gave me a smile, it’s a good one.
A_Ray:
Oh, I feel that. Yes, I do. :)
Fuck that noise. I do not have a positive attitude. I don’t even have a good attitude. I have a shitty, cynical attitude, about most everything, and that certainly includes having cancer.
GASP! Does he know how many baby angel fairies he killed with those negative thoughts!?!?!? Death is too good for this monster!
;)
Sorry, HTML failure. That first paragraph should have been blockquoted.
Marcus:
Your nurses should have been smacked. That’s seriously shitty behaviour, and you should not have been subjected to it. And how the fuck would she know if childbirth is worse? Did she have a kidney stone, too? Every experience, even birthing, is different for every person. From the stories I’ve heard, I never, ever want a kidney stone. Or to give birth.
Pain is bad, it sucks, full stop. It’s not up to anyone else to dismiss your pain, and for fuck’s sake, a godsdamn nurse should know better. That’s infuriating, and it’s taking advantage of a vulnerable person, and making them feel worse.
My chronicles are basically whining, and you all not only put up with me, but you haven’t run away either. I’d feel the same way about you, Marcus, and I’d be there every step of the way.
Akira @ 10:
Ooooh, how many points do I get? And it’s she. :)
I would like to add that there is no “science” of positivity. Fuck positivity. With red hot twisted rebar. And fuck Lance Armstrong too while you’re at it.
@6 Marcus, most women I’ve talked to have said that kidney stones were worse that child birth (as opposed to stone birth, I guess???). It’s an informal survey so your mileage may vary.
Caine@#12:
Your nurses should have been smacked. That’s seriously shitty behaviour, and you should not have been subjected to it. And how the fuck would she know if childbirth is worse? Did she have a kidney stone, too?
I believe I would have been willing to give her mine.
This morning I had my 39th, and final, radiation treatment for prostate cancer. I had a prostatectomy almost exactly a year ago which resulted in a lengthy recovery due to a post surgical infection. Follow up testing revealed that I still had a positive PSA that was increasing over time. A PET scan in November revealed that there were still some cancerous cells that were missed in surgery so it was off to another specialist for radiation. I agree that maintaining a positive attitude had no bearing on the outcome of my treatment but it sure did make life easier for the people tasked with caring for and living with me during this ordeal. Which made life better for me as well.
Totally agree. “Positive attitude” is of no importance at all. My related pet hate is “battling” cancer. You don’t battle cancer (what on earth would it mean?) – you just do your best to get through it, having all the relevant treatments as advised by your oncologist. That’s it.
Another minor, and perhaps idiosyncratic peeve of mine is being told “you are looking well”. I inow it is well meant, but it seems to me to trivialise the unpleasantness of cancer and its treatment. Whatever the surface impression, you are not well inside, and will never be the same as you were before cancer, whether you go into complete remission (you are never “cured”) or not.
Big Boppa:
Y’know, if you had read the post I linked, you’d know I’m not advocating for anyone to be a massive bastard to everyone; nor do I think one attitude fits all. It’s about being allowed to be the person you are, rather than The Cancer Patient™.
Caine:
No worries. I was moved to comment mainly because of the coincidence of PZ posting this on the same day as my (hopefully) end of treatment. Normally I’m a curmudgeonly sort but quickly learned that I was much better off being nice to the folks I depended on to get me through this. Even when they insisted in making encouraging and well meant but painfully trite comments along the way. Truthfully, I didn’t even read the comments above before posting because I was anxious to get my two cents in while still fresh.
Sorry to hear the bad news Caine, hope things improve for you. A friend of a friend has been having really severe dermatitis/eczema to the point that he starts hallucinating from the fevers it gives him. He’s had to check in a few times to a psych ward due to the severe depression the dermatitis gives him. He was hard on himself for a while until someone pointed out that it’s perfectly fine to be depressed because his skin is trying to kill him.