Comments

  2. says

    It cloned itself! I’ll take one too, Giliell.

    The weather’s changed this week, autumn has arrived here, and my body is informing me of the topic even if I never saw a calendar. The rainy cool temperatures are awful for my back, though I love the season.

    Still having that deep breathing problem – an incipient spasm that triggers my diaphragm when I expand my chest enough to take a deep breath, or sigh. I get about 3/4 of the way in, and it expels involuntarily. It’s in no way disabling, but it’s somewhat wearying to not be able to get a good deep clearing breath.

    MyMouse is here, and in a few days I’ll be off to Baltimore, before we head to the wilds of Virginia for some camping and fire-poi-spinning (something MyMouse and FoxyJenny and WolfmanDave all do, whereas I like life in its mysteries too much to put ‘things which are on fire’ in a close high-speed trajectory to my body). Mostly, I’m looking forward to the camping.

    Gone from Tuesday to Tuesday. May be scarce around here for a bit, don’t expect we’ll have Internet or power in the woods after Thursday.

  3. varady72 says

    I have met musicologists who’ve triedto argue that music is for music theorists, that only people with advanced training understand music. I’ve also met musicians who were very emphatic in saying that musical background matters and that….“basic aural skills, the ability to read music, and time spent playing in ensembles drastically alters one’s experience of music”

    Drastically?

    I just don’t understand where they get these ideas…. First of all,
    the difficulty with music is that it does not essentially exist in an
    intellectual construct. True, music has form and that can be analyzed
    with logic and music has harmony and that, also, can be analyzed
    within a logic construct but the intellectual analysis of music is
    most unimportant when compared to the effect music has on our deep
    emotions. Analysis of emotional content is not unusual but it,
    ultimately, is little more than the water running off the leaves of
    trees during a rain; it has little effect on the leaves and it is not
    a primary source of nourishment for the tree. Putting a name to
    something may make it easier to spot and recognize (the musicologist’s
    point of view), but it does not mean that it suddenly CHANGES whatever
    it was before you could describe it. Sometimes yes it can help to
    speed up the process but it does not mean that things like bias
    disappear. Musicians and musicologists can be just as biased and
    short-sighted as “lay-listeners”. Also, knowledge of music theory or
    the ‘instruction book’ is not the basis for aesthetic experience. What
    it describes is, but theory is the description, not the object. We
    still have the object without the technical data. We still have ears
    and we are still fully equipped to hear it. I don’t think it deepens
    understanding of what the music expresses on its own terms which is
    greater than its own formal content.

    Music affects us much as the sense of smell influences us. It speaks
    directly to the emotional content of our lives. It is the art the does
    not require any understanding, explanation, nor analysis. All of these
    things can add to the art of music but, ultimately, they are little
    more than rain on the leaves.

    In his last book Charles Rosen wrote:

    “One brute fact often overlooked needs to be forced upon our
    consideration: most works of art are more or less intelligible and
    give pleasure without any kind of historical, biographical, or
    structural analysis. […..] In the end we must affirm that no single
    system of interpretation will ever be able to give us an exhaustive or
    definitive understanding of why a work of music can hold an enduring
    interest for us, explain its charm, account for its seduction and our
    admiration [….] Listening with intensity for pleasure is the one
    critical activity that can never be dispensed with or superseded”

    I’d appreciate your thoughts on any of this.

  4. says

    This is an addition to the Republican-politicians-saying-stupid-things file — and I would add that this is cruel and mean in addition to being stupid. This also qualifies as a Moment of Mormon Madness because former Arizona state senator, now Vice-Chair of the GOP in the state, and author of Arizona’s SB1070, Russell Pearce, is a rabid mormon.

    Pearce advocates mandatory sterilization for poor, unemployed women. That and more:

    “You put me in charge of Medicaid, the first thing I’d do is get Norplant, birth-control implants, or tubal ligations,” Russell Pearce told listeners on his talk show this week on station KKNT, The Patriot “Intelligent Talk” radio.
    “Then we’ll test recipients for drugs and alcohol, and if you want to [reproduce] or use drugs or alcohol, then get a job.”

    Pearce, who is now the the Vice Chair of the Arizona GOP, and takes an $85,000 per year government salary for a job that was reconstituted just for him, but claims to be a champion of small government. His latest government job? Convincing elderly Arizona residents to sign up for government assistance.

    But Pearce is fervently against government assistance, at least he says so on his conservative talk radio show.

    “No cash for Ding Dongs and Ho Hos, you’d only get money for 15-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and powdered milk – all the powdered milk you can haul away,” Pearce, discussing food stamps, said this week. “If you want a steak or frozen pizza, then you’d have to get a job.”

    People on government assistance programs, again, were he in charge, would be told they have to maintain their property “in a clean, good state of repair, and your home will be subjected to an inspection at any time, possessions will be inventoried.” […]

    http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/vice_chair_of_arizona_gop

  5. Alverant says

    One of my (now ex-) Facebook friends reposted a Photoshopped picture of a cross crashing down on an adult book store. I thought it was in poor taste considering the 9/11 anniversary we just had. Terrorism is still terrorism even if the people doing it are christian. I commented about the similarities between that picture and the WTC attacks (done by religious conservatives against a building they saw as immoral and ungodly) and asked what posted it said about him and unfriended him. I didn’t want to be linked to someone who thought terrorism was OK if it was done by christians. I think it’s well past time we quit acting like terrorism is just something muslims do. (Had to get that out.)

    To change the subject, I’m writing a sci-fi short story for my eyes only that takes place on a human colony based on Humanism. I’m not sure what to call the planet. My first idea was “Dawkinsa” then I was reminded at what a jerk he could be and now I need a new name. Ideas?

  6. gog says

    My girlfriend recently revealed to me that she wants a ployamorous relationship. The whole situation is that she wants to be with me and our relationship is the most important to her… But she also desires romantic entanglements with other people. She’s offered me the same freedom and we both agreed that we each have the right of refusal for other paramours.

    I’m still not sure, though. Maybe I’m too insecure for it to work. Maybe it’ll be fine.

    She’s my entire life, though. I’ve given up so much to be with her. I’ve invested so much time and care and love. I really want to be with her and for her to also be happy. If I decide against altering our relationship I think she would resent me. But I don’t know if I can go along with her desires and not harbor my own resentments. I can’t bear leave her, and she doesn’t want me to go.

    I know this is disjointed. It’s quite hard to explain this ambivalence and conflict I feel. I just don’t know.

  7. says

    Gay mormons are making a pretty big public show of being both gay and mormon:

    When the annual Affirmation conference for LGBT Mormons and their supporters kicks off Friday in Salt Lake City, organizers expect to see more young people and family members than ever.

    The conference, titled “This Is the Place” and which runs through Sunday, will be “the largest single gathering of gay Mormons in the world meant to help attendees reconcile and celebrate being both LGBT and connected to the LDS faith,” spokesman John Gustav-Wrathall said.

    I hope their conference opens the eyes of some bigoted mormons, and that it also squarely faces the LDS church’s miserable history of anti-gay activity, including shocking the genitals of gay men in an experimental “cure the gay” type of program at BYU. I hope, but I seriously doubt.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsfaithblog/58406680-180/affirmation-conference-lgbt-mormon.html.csp

    From the Comments below the article:

    If I understand correctly, gay folks can be Mormons in good standing if they
    a) don’t ever engage in sexual relationships with people to whom they’re attracted, or
    b) do engage in sexual relationships with people to whom they’re not attracted, and even better if they marry them.
    ————-
    I think you will find that many, perhaps even most, of the people involved with Affirmation are not practicing Mormons but come from a Mormon background.

    Affirmation was formed in the days of then Elder Packer famous BYU speech To The One. He said that the word “homosexual” was immodest and the topic of his speech on homosexuality should not be further discussed. Things are easier today, but it wasn’t so much as making your choice in the cafeteria but learning that there was a cafeteria. Have things changed so much? Practicing Mormons still aren’t Gay they’re Same Sex Attracted.

    Unfortunately Affirmation has not become obsolete, processing one’s exit from Mormonism and forming a Gay identity can be a complicated process as most of the Trib commentors know. Affirmation, in general, acts as a support group for such people and, as needed, their advocate.
    ——————
    [True Believing Mormon speaking] A significant number of participants silently want help and support to pull them away from same sex attraction (they know they can’t eliminate the inclination but they just want support doing what they want to do with their lives) but this point of view won’t be allowed to be spoken. From the first line of this story, the only point of view allowed is the point of view that people who struggle with this are supposed to “celebrate being LGBT.” They’re supposed to sew the label on themselves and be happy about it, no matter what. Many don’t WANT the “lgbt” label and want help and support to fight the craving they believe is wrong, but they’re left out in the cold and told to just sew the lgbt label on their arms. With liberals, one point of view is allowed. Just one. They scream about tolerance, then when you’re around liberals and their homosexual activists, you find ZERO tolerance for anything but their exact talking points.

  8. blf says

    WARNING: wild extrapolation (a classification system for science news:

    Science news and articles are becoming increasingly popular, but with so much being written about so many things, it can be confusing for the beginner science enthusiast to grasp what they’re reading and how to interpret it. A simple classification system could help remedy this

    Science news and science writing is increasingly popular. There are increasing numbers of people getting into science, which is great. But science is a huge field, with many different disciplines and areas, all of which can go into quite painstaking detail. Obviously there’s a lot to talk about, which can prove daunting to the newly interested, so good science writing is important.

    However, science and science news/reporting/writing is the work of humans, and humans are rarely 100% logical. So, to step into the world of science is to step into years/decades/centuries of disputes, controversies, unfamiliar habits, power-plays, strange politics and countless other things that manifest in science articles and could befuddle the unwary reader. What can we do about this?

    One option is to adopt an approach from the world of film. Every film released to the public comes with a classification, to warn potential viewers of the type of content to expect… Wouldn’t it be useful to adopt something similar for science articles, to give newcomers some grasp of what they’re looking at? So here’s a potential classification system for science writing. It’s a bit more complex admittedly, and unlike films, multiple classifications can be applied to a single piece. How like science, to be so uncertain.

    …

    Here is a synopsis of the categories. Go read the article for the images and explanations.

     ● Axe Grinding: Contains scientist complaining about specific subject.
     ● Soapbox: Contains scientist pushing their own agenda. Opinions not to be taken at face value.
     ● Wild Extrapolation: Article only tenuously linked to actual research.

    (I’m omitting most of the short and funny summaries from the rest of the list, as it it too tedious to type in.)

     ● Provocative Title
     ● Impenetrable: Article has not been checked by anyone who knows how to communicate.
     ● Unimformed
     ● False Balance
     ● Reheated PR
     ● Shoehorn
     ● Condescending
     ● Cargo Cult
     ● Niche Concern
     ● New Book Release
     ● Link Fest

    What is missing, obviously, is:

     ● Contains zebrafish

  9. says

    gog, I’ve been polyamourous for a number of years, if there’s anything I can help with or answer, I’d be happy to. I can be reached by using cave plus babe and 21, no spaces, all at the mail service provided by that search engine which has become a verb, and a full stop and a com at the end. I’m not suggesting that to convert you in any way, but to be available to help you feel out whether it’s something you can manage. Not everyone is suited to it, which is in no way a criticism; not everyone is suited to eating cheese or liking pop music, either. :)

    The last thing I, or any ethical-poly person would want, is for you to feel pressured or uncomfortable with your choice, because consent of all parties is the primary starting point. So if you want a source of info that won’t try to influence your decision in any way but “what’s best for gog”, I’d be happy to be that.

    No offence taken if you don’t, either. It’s just one of those little ways I can contribute to the Lounge to pay back the help people have given me over the time I’ve been around. :)

  10. blf says

    Libertarian ideology is the natural enemy of science:

    Whether the issue is climate change, healthcare or gun control, libertarians are on a permanent collision course with evidence

    …[D]espite overwhelming evidence of anthropogenic influence [for climate change], there is a tendency for those with pronounced free-market views to reject the reality of global warming. The reason underpinning this is transparent — if one accepts human-mediated climate change, then supporting mitigating action should follow. But the demon of regulation is a bridge too far for many libertarians. Given that climate change affects everyone whether they consent to it or not, then unregulated use of natural resources infringes the property rights of others and is ideologically equivalent to trespass, so the tenuous property rights house of cards comes crashing down.

    When faced with this ideological dilemma, free-market advocates often resolve the cognitive dissonance by simply rejecting the reality of climate change, rather than acknowledging that their axiom is fundamentally flawed.

    …

    Another example is gun control. Many American libertarians decry any suggestion that regulations should be tightened, insisting people have the right to arm themselves to make themselves safer. But the statistics show this argument to be nonsensical: those who carry firearms, even for protection, are much more likely to be shot and increase the risk of death for those around them. These trends have been confirmed time and again in serious epidemiological studies, yet despite the very act of carrying risking the safety of others, the ideological position of individual rights trumps the facts for a sizeable contingent of the US population.

    All of these problems stem from a clash between ideology and evidence. …

  11. blf says

    Bletch!! I just had (well, started…) a perfectly horrible glass of port. The bottle had been open for awhile, obviously a bit too long… No problems, just opened / decanted a fresh bottle. Which will be drunk faster. (So definitely “no problehics!”)

    I fink the old bottle was opened around Easter-time! Decent ports are a bit hard to find in Teh Village, so I have to “ration” myself…

  12. blf says

    One of my (now ex-)Facebook friends reposted a Photoshopped picture of a cross crashing down on an adult book store. I thought it was in poor taste considering the 9/11 anniversary we just had. Terrorism is still terrorism even if the people doing it are christian. I commented about the similarities between that picture and the WTC attacks (done by religious conservatives against a building they saw as immoral and ungodly)…

    Minor point: The anniversary of the 11-Sept crime is not-relevant. Even if that crime had never happened, the ex-“friend”‘s proposal would itself be criminal.

    More significant, the passage I have emboldened:
     ● 1st, It is the people who committed that crime who claim to be “religious”. That claim is widely(? frequently?) disputed in the very same religious community (and elsewhere). Claiming or implying those nutters were representative of any religion is highly dubious.
     ● And 2nd (minor-ish), As far as I know the crime was not because “against a building they [the criminals] saw as immoral and ungodly” (my emphasis), but because the buildings were a prominent symbol of a several countries they disliked (especially Israel (probably) and USAlienstan (almost certainly), primarily).

  13. says

    CaitieCat @2:
    Sorry to hear your body’s giving you a hard time. I’m glad you have your Mouse there and hope you have a good time on your trip.

    ****
    Alverant @5:

    To change the subject, I’m writing a sci-fi short story for my eyes only that takes place on a human colony based on Humanism. I’m not sure what to call the planet. My first idea was “Dawkinsa” then I was reminded at what a jerk he could be and now I need a new name. Ideas?

    My first thought would be to play with the word ‘humanism’. Maybe ‘Umanis’, ‘Manis’, ‘Munish’, ‘Nimasu’, or something like that.

    ****
    Gog @6:

    She’s my entire life, though. I’ve given up so much to be with her. I’ve invested so much time and care and love. I really want to be with her and for her to also be happy. If I decide against altering our relationship I think she would resent me. But I don’t know if I can go along with her desires and not harbor my own resentments. I can’t bear leave her, and she doesn’t want me to go.
    I know this is disjointed. It’s quite hard to explain this ambivalence and conflict I feel. I just don’t know.

    I’m so sorry. This sounds like rough for you. The only advice I have to offer-communicating your desires as clearly as possible, but without guilting her-is probably something you already know.
    ::hugs of sympathy::
    ****
    ::cringes at the thought of consuming port::

  14. Alverant says

    @blf
    I didn’t say the terrorists were representative of that religion, but that they were religious. They committed that act of terrorism in the name of their religion. That is not in despite. Your point is getting dangerously close to “no true Scotsman”. Also the anniversary of the 9/11 terror attack is relevant because he also reposted a bunch of stuff about how we shouldn’t forget. To decry terrorism in a bunch of posts then imply how it’s OK if christians do it only makes it worse.

  15. blf says

    “No cash for Ding Dongs and Ho Hos, you’d only get money for 15-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and powdered milk…

    Whilst the mildly deranged penguin might approve of the emboldened passage in a very general sense — but probably not as it would reduce her cheese supply — she would (1) Suspect it is an attempt to foist British Industrial Cheddar on unsuspecting people (or at least on people which few other options); and (2) Wonder what the feck a thug knows about good cheese. Which tends to be dangerous to the wonderee…

  16. blf says

    Alverant, No it is the criminals who claim to be “religious” and/or representative of their particular self-claimed religion. Implying that their acts are in any way widely approved-of by anyone, in that religion or otherwise, is absurd and very close to be bigoted. Stop it.

    And the anniversary is absolutely not-relevant. The moral repugnances of the comments would hold just as true after, or before, the Oklahoma City bombing, the Boston Marathon bombing, the London Underground bombing, the Tokyo Subway gassing, and so on. The very concept is appalling, the coincidence of being “close to” some (recent) commonly-known anniversary is just that — coincidence. Stop putting a mystical magical spin on absurdity.

  18. says

    So, for convoluted reasons, I find myself in possession of a steam copy of Gone Home. No one on my FB is interested (I only have, like, 20 friends). If any one wants it, they’re welcome to it. The only caveat is that you’ll have to add me on steam. My email is [lastname].[firstname] at the gee mail.

    Also, I have a number of steam keys from humble bundles where I already had one or two games. If the horde is interested, I can go through and list what’s available. I’d need an email to send the link to.

  19. gog says

    @Tony: no guilting. We’ve already discussed a lot about this. I’m just.. I can’t bring myself to be okay with it. Mostly I’m afraid of feeling neglected as I have in the past and recently. I’m afraid that a second partner could replace me. I’m just afraid.

  23. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @gog:

    Ive been polyamorous since forever, but my first explicitly polyamorous relationship was a head-shot, because I didn’t understand the words my partner used. I thought she was saying that she didn’t want her time monopolized, that she still wanted to be social and not be penalized for doing things without me.

    It took awhile to realize the things she was doing without me included some things I hadn’t imagined she was doing without me. It was awkward and upsetting and over in 3 minutes.

    Later, one woman paired up with 2 people at nearly the same time. I was one, and we had hooked up almost exactly a week before woman and other paired up. When woman broke up with other (but remained friends) 12 weeks later, I went into a weird depression-spiral where I had to hear why she wanted to stay with me again and again, b/c from my depressed perspective, if **other** wasn’t good enough, what the hell was woman doing with **me**????

    That freak out lasted a bit of time. Days. It was certainly over in 2 weeks, but possibly in less than 1/2 that.

    The rest of the time, it’s worked very well for me, and that’s because of communication.

    Right now, there’s going to be a ton of fear about what things will look like. I hear you saying you’re afraid of being neglected.

    So when you sit down to talk, make a point of mentioning it. Write it on your list:
    1. I want to say yes, but I’m afraid I’ll be neglected.

    Keep adding to the list until all the things that bounce uncomfortably around in your brain are out on the paper.

    Then, do some pre-brainstorming about what would help your needs get met. What does “neglected” mean? If you really miss having your partner home-cook some awesome Mongolian dish that you can never pronounce, write up an agreement that you’re going to help her get to a better place with being supported as a full person, and that she’s going to do the same for you. But you’re going to support her in resolving her conflicts with polyamory and she’s going to support you in eating mongolian food. 1 hand-cooked meal a week.

    That’s a hokey example, but it works: Think about what the actual issues are. Many time an anticipated conflict doesn’t materialize.

    1. “I want to have other play partners”
    2. “I’m okay in theory, but the knife play that we do always freaks me out. It requires so much care not to cause any harm. I know you like that danger, that’s why I’m willing to do it even though I’m uncomfortable with it. But I’m not likely to get to know your other play partners.”
    3. “Oh, but I don’t trust anyone else with knife play. You’re the only person I’ve trusted with that fantasy in my whole life, and I don’t see that changing. No, I’m more interested in topping. I know you’d be willing to bottom for me, but it’s not really your thing, and I love the purity of the dynamic we have. I get giddy at some of the things you say to me. I don’t want to demystify it. So, I wouldn’t be doing knife play, or if I would, I wouldn’t have the edge against my skin.”
    4. “Really? Okay, if you promise that you tell me before you top using a knife and that you won’t bottom during knife play whether you tell me or not, I’m completely fine with you having other play partners.”

    Lots of negotiation is probably necessary. You even get to keep intimacy in surprisingly easy ways.

    Some common ideas for keeping primary partnerships “special”
    1. No sex on one specific bed the partner/s often use, except when it is sex with each other.
    2. No sex partners of a specific anatomical sex.
    3. No dates with others on the weekend.
    4. This particular sex toy is for use between partners only (and often for 1 special use between those partners). No one else gets to touch Dear Lil’ Dil.

    This is going to be hard, and it will take more communication than you think now that it will.

    The primary reason for that is that so many relationship boundaries are set not because that is the best boundary for the people concerned, but because it is the expected standard given the society from which the partnership emerges.

    When you open this up, you get to ask, What works? What works even better? Hell, we’ve already said that you can have a special friend that you go to the Star Wars prequels with because I refuse to see those abominations, how about you have a special friend that helps you live out that chippendale’s hunk stranded by the side of the rode fantasy, since I know nothing about engines and just pretending to care about what’s going on in a gas engine would kill my mood?

    But it’s not just this. So many things are expected. You start by challenging the role of other people as lovers, but then you’re thinking about the role of other people as friends. Then you’re thinking about the home – do you really want only one bedroom, or would you really rather have separate rooms because one of you gets depressed and hates to be seen depressed, while the other finds it easier to get on with taking care of the house if the depressed partner is out of sight (which doesn’t mean not offering help, but it means that the deep empathy telling us “DROP EVERYTHING NOW” isn’t quite so strong, and can be held in check when needed).

    But there are so many conventions. So many relationship expectations. It’s impossible to anticipate now how many things you’ll learn about yourself and what you want by the time the process is over.

    Not saying all learning is pain free, or that it couldn’t possibly cost you your relationship, but if you do it right, the relationship will only end because you two want different things – in other words, you weren’t the right partners for each other. Whenever you learn it is painful, but learning it now is no more painful than later.

    Let me respond directly to a few things you’ve said, however:

    She’s my entire life, though.

    Ummmm…. you know how creepy this sounds, right? We both know that this isn’t true, it’s just an idiomatic expression. But lettting yourself think in these terms permits logic with pretty horrible consequences.

    Self defense includes the use of lethal force when someone presents a lethal threat.
    She is your whole life
    Anyone who takes her is taking your life.
    “She” is a member of the class “anyone”.
    Therefore, if she decides to spend the rest of her life in Swaziland studying ethnomusicography in a location where the local government would bar your presence for carrying a disease rapidly deadly to Swazilanders, she is taking your life. You, then, are justified in using lethal force against her.

    While I don’t think for a moment you were using this as anything but a metaphor, I’d be very careful with your metaphors.

    If you don’t know what’s a good metaphor, just keep your cows in it.

    I’ve given up so much to be with her. I’ve invested so much time and care and love. I really want to be with her

    These are both fine statements, and normal things to think about. You ahve to be really careful, however, connecting the one to the other.

    Think about how you feel now What do you want now. If it’s these are connected, you might be thinking, “I deserve to be here to enjoy the happiness for which I have diligently, patiently, and expensively paved the way.” You might even have the thought, “She owes me…”. But she doesn’t.

    Again, it’s fine if you think these things. But question your thoughts. Make sure before you take any actions, you’ve really thought things through not only from multiple sides, but on multiple levels. “This argument is conclusive” might seem good, having picked and chosen from among the various choices and their various supportive rationales. However, this often amounts to little more than priorization.

    Prioritizing works when the question is, Do I buy this super fancy sewing machine to last me
    FOR Ev ev er e r r r r r     or take a trip to Hawaii.

    It’s your money, you spend it how you want. If you want a Singer 401, you get one. No one is going to tell you you can’t.

    However, unlike the truly badd ass Singer 401, most human partners have, well, their own wants and needs.

    Seriously. What’s with that?

    So when you’re evaluating your arguments, your desires, your fantasies, and your priorities, remember that even though those things are all possible for you to get (I just want an iPod dock with optical audio out. That’s it. Just a dock. That’s not too much to ask, is it?) when you bring your partner’s feelings into the mix (I’d rather spend the $100 on ukelele lessons) things get quickly complicated.

    So you can’t – let me repeat for emphasis **CAN’T** – make a decision to create or stay in a relationship **in order to reach some goal/ get some thing in the future** if you have not yet figured out if that is even possible.

    If you want to stay because you want to watch her have hot sex with that psychedelic Persian punk from the 22 Bus, there’s going to be a lot of friction when in her first 700 extra-relationship partners there are no psychedelic Persion punks.

    So think about your goals, and then think again:

    If you goals aren’t under your control, you’ve got a problem.You’re taking a risk. It may be a reasonable and calculated risk, but try to frame all your goals in a way that it’s up to you to accomplish them or not. Otherwise, when things feel bad, you won’t think, “Oh, here’s stuff I can do…and it will bring me closer to this thing that I know is going to make me happy!” No, if you frame your goals as things other people do, when things feel bad you will think, “Damn that partner. Who does she think she is, standing in the way of my happiness.”

    I really want to be with her and for her to also be happy.

    Note that we picked up a couple words from the end of the last quote. This part is good. Although I think it would be even better written:

    I really want to be happy, and for her to be happy.

    If you love each other, but you would be happier without sex with [or living with, or whatever the crucial stumbling block is] Partner and Partner would be happier without sex with [or living with, or whatever the crucial stumbling block is] you, then maybe the loving thing to do is to help each other create new lives, continuing to give each other all the superspecial stuff that makes being together wonderful without trying to fix X. Because X isn’t part of the relationship anymore, it’s not your problem.

    Anyway, the point is that you’re acting as if your happiness and the continuation of the relationship are synonymous. They may not be. And that’s a sad thing if they have been synonymous for a long time. Dealing with that change can suck. But it’s still true that
    happiness ≠ relationship.

    If I decide against altering our relationship I think she would resent me.

    Don’t think. Know. It’s super easy. First, you find an underground lair, with at least 400k sq ft of lab space. Then…

    Wait a minute. You could also just ask her. That will work for now.

    You have to have as much certainty as possible – what are the choices, what are the effects of the choices? You certainly have a right to ask for the information. Your partner may choose to keep something private, or may be unable to express something in words [at which point, I recommend Interpretive Oral Sex], but asking is a good thing in this process.

    But I don’t know if I can go along with her desires and not harbor my own resentments.

    Well, DUH! of COURSE you’ll have resentments. Anyone here ever had a relationship where another partner made no mistakes of emotional consequence at all?

    If that’s what you’re looking for, a vast porn library and a good set of sex toys are your friend.

    But I believe you’re going to want a relationship with a full human being, and here’s the kicker. Are you ready:

    Your partner wants a relationship with a full human being. However bad you think you are, however unworthy, however over-focused on work or school or those sex games with the vacuum cleaner, your partner knows more about you than I ever will.

    And partner chooses you.

    Even when partner is feeling some significant need to alter the structure of your relationship, the nature of the promises you two make, you are so important to your partner that she didn’t blow you off thinking you were too fuddy duddy.

    She was scared. She didn’t want to hurt you. She wants the relationship to continue, but she knows the relationship would fail if she let you think she was promising some type of exclusivity (polyamory doesn’t always revolve around sexual non-exclusivity – some partnerships make a rule that it’s okay to fuck others, but not love them; others make a rule that it’s okay to love others but not fuck them, the permutations are geometric) but secretly acted as if that promise didn’t exist.

    Knowing that would kill the relationship, she would not do that. She chose the harder way. She chose the only way she knows that would keep you. She chose you.

    And though it’s not previously been obvious, look back on all the times – every single one – that partner has left the house without you. An attractive stranger at the grocery store, an old flame 3 rows back on the 737, the paramedic that said all the perfect things, that comforted as she lost consciousness, and was still holding her hand when she woke up, all these from the quotidian to the life-changing, all of these are interactions that she judged less important than coming home to you, to your “us”.

    Think of what it would be like to know that your partner went out on a date, and came home to you. Of course you would have resentments and petty feelings. Of course you would have serious concerns that deserve real conversation. Of course it’s not easy. But on the other hand, when your partner walks in the door, it’s because she wants to.

    You can’t put a price on that.

  25. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    The Far Left Side

    I read the first few strips when that started, until they put out a full-blown 9-11 Truther thing and I was done.

    *clicks to see if it’s improved*

  27. David Marjanović says

    As far as I know the crime was not because “against a building they [the criminals] saw as immoral and ungodly” (my emphasis), but because the buildings were a prominent symbol of a several countries they disliked (especially Israel (probably) and USAlienstan (almost certainly), primarily).

    Also “to kill the Americans in their own houses”.

  29. boanderey says

    Re: post #4
    “Pearce advocates mandatory sterilization for poor, unemployed women. That and more”
    Cause that worked so well in North Carolina. The eugenics program lasted from 1929 to 1974; the legislature is still hoping that if they stall long enough no one else will remember.
    To quote one of the great thinkers of our time “What a maroon!”

  30. The Mellow Monkey says

    gog

    My girlfriend recently revealed to me that she wants a ployamorous relationship. The whole situation is that she wants to be with me and our relationship is the most important to her… But she also desires romantic entanglements with other people. She’s offered me the same freedom and we both agreed that we each have the right of refusal for other paramours.
    I’m still not sure, though. Maybe I’m too insecure for it to work. Maybe it’ll be fine.

    Yet another person here who’s been polyamorous for years (geez, maybe we should start a club in the Lounge). My first real relationship was with two women who were also involved with one another. My current partner and I are open, to varying degrees of “open.” Every relationship is different, after all, and we all have to establish our own limits. Polyamorous, open, triad, etc, whatever accepted meaning any of them has in the general lexicon, they’re all going to look different depending on the people involved because they’re different people.

    In my first triad, we were young (I was only eighteen) and inexperienced and clueless. Instead of talking stuff out and figuring out ahead of time what was okay and what wasn’t, everybody just sort of did what made the most sense to them to disasterous results. When one girlfriend dumped us for Jesus and I assumed it was just a monogamous duo now, my remaining girlfriend then went and messed around with a friend of hers without talking to me about it first. When I was hurt over it, she shrugged and said that this friend was a man and so surely dudes didn’t count?

    :facepalm:

    Yeah. So. Talking is important. Don’t make assumptions about what your girlfriend wants or where you stand in the relationship. Talk. Crip Dyke has a lot of good advice about the practicalities of how to handle communication.

    With my current partner, we discuss everything and though there were some scary points at times (he was afraid of losing me) all this talking and openness has made us both feel more secure now. If I find someone else attractive, it isn’t a rejection of him. If I swoon in heartfelt love for someone else, it isn’t a rejection of him. Why? Because what we have isn’t defined by excluding others. My love for him isn’t decreased by loving someone else, no more than having two friends diminishes your friendships.

    But not everybody can feel that way. You need to figure out if you’re one of them and be honest with your girlfriend if you are. It will end up hurting the both of you if you go into something you know you can’t be happy with. Again, Crip Dyke has a lot of good advice on figuring out your feelings about this.

    Good luck. Don’t hesitate to talk more about this here if you need.

  32. says

    Mellow Monkey @30:

    If I find someone else attractive, it isn’t a rejection of him. If I swoon in heartfelt love for someone else, it isn’t a rejection of him. Why? Because what we have isn’t defined by excluding others. My love for him isn’t decreased by loving someone else, no more than having two friends diminishes your friendships.

    I absolutely LOVE how you put this. I’ve never been in a polyamorous relationship, but I have, on occasion, thought about how people handle them. Especially the part quoted above.
    Thanks!

  33. says

    Last night, SyFy (I don’t like that spelling) aired the first episode of the ongoing series Z Nation:

    Spinoff Online: Any TV series involving zombies automatically gets compared to The Walking Dead. Was that a big concern when you started developing Z Nation?

    Karl Schaefer: Absolutely. Our feeling was, “There’s already a great zombie show on, why are we doing another one?” I think it was to be all the places they aren’t and to look a bit further down the line, post-Walking Dead

    What we ended up doing was adding a sense of humor to the show, and I think The Walking Dead has no humor. There’s traveling across the country. Our characters have a sense of hope and a mission. They are not afraid of zombies; they take it to them. It’s about kicking some zombie ass.

    Every project puts its own spin on the zombies. What were some of the ground rules for your version?

    They can do anything we want them to if it’s cool. Our zombies are evolving, the virus is changing. We have a much broader view of zombies than a show like The Walking Dead does. Those are slow zombies, too. It’s a little bit of a problem in that you almost have to be an idiot to get killed by a slow zombie. We have fast zombies. The main rule is the zombies are on an arc with how long ago they died. A fresh zombie is fast, and as they begin to decay, they get slower and slower. If someone was killed and they were a healthy, powerful person when alive, then they are a fast-moving, powerful zombie. Also, we have the idea that the Murphy character [played by Keith Allan], who they are transporting across the country, is evolving into a human-zombie blend. In future seasons, that may lead us into another type of human that is taking an evolutionary leap forward.

    We have zombie animals. We have zombie dogs and zombie babies. We have a zombie gopher in a future episode. We wanted to be the zombie show that said, “Yeah, we’ll go for it. We’ll do that. It’s funny and cool and scary.” Our main goal was to put the fun back in zombies and not take them quite so seriously, without it being silly like the Sharknado end of the scale.

    The violence and gore are definitely in your face in Z Nation. Did you receive any notes from the network on the level of blood and guts?

    They wanted more. They wanted this to be a no-holds-barred show, so that’s what we gave them. It’s an interesting thing because none of the people on the writing staff are genre writers. We’re not really horror writers; we’re more social-satire writers. There’s an aspect to the violence where part of me was concerned with doing it. Another part of me thought, “It’s about violence and the impact of violence on things.” Also, if you take violence just a little too far, it can be funny and interesting. None of it is sadistic. Along with the hyper-violence, we introduced the notion of giving these zombies some mercy and having some level of empathy for them and the person they used to be.

    […]

    Besides the zombie threat, what can viewers expect to see during this road trip?

    There’s a lot of social satire in the show. To me, what the show is really about is how each week our characters run into a different pocket of society that’s trying to rebuild itself. How do they do that and how does it go wrong or right? One week it will be a group of cannibals. The next week it will be a religious cult that believes the zombies are the resurrected. Another week it will be an all-female compound that doesn’t allow me inside. One week we have another utopian compound that doesn’t allow weapons inside. What happens to them? The week after that, they come across a gun show, where we mix liquor and guns. What could go wrong with that? There’s a zombie-shooting contest. It’s really about traveling across America and seeing how these pockets of survivors are doing.

  35. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Finally cooled off enough to post. My health insurance company has decided last week that the Redhead has reached a plateau, and is cutting off funding for her in-house wound treatment/rehab as of Wednesday. Just as she was beginning to get the physical therapy needed to get her strength back. The Redhead thinks she would need about two more months, while I think half that. Now the costs are being pushed onto us for the care, instead of where it belongs, on the insurance company.
    Anybody who mentions “death boards” doesn’t understand what private insurance does.

  40. Adam James says

    I haven’t posted in the lounge before, but something’s been troubling me and I couldn’t think of a better place to get some expert perspective than the Pharyngula commentariat. Earlier this week my mother sent me a link to a petition which aims to stop some truly awful-sounding experiments on young Rhesus macaques performed at the University of Wisconsin. Some of the allegations sound almost comically evil (“solitary confinement”, “live snakes”(!)). I happen to attend another Big 10 University one state over from U of W, and I can’t imagine my school permitting researchers to do something like this. Don’t Universities have review boards that are supposed to prevent abuses from taking place? I also leave open the possibility that their is some context that I’m missing, though it’s hard to imagine what good could come of this that would outweigh the animals’ suffering. I would love to get the perspective of some of the commenters here, especially any biologists or persons whose moral compasses might be better attuned to this sort of thing. Thanks.

  41. says

    Adam James:
    Welcome to the Lounge.
    I have absolutely no expertise in this area, but I’m sure there are bound to be a few people who do, so I hope someone will be able to help you out.
    I’d recommend you repost this in the Thunderdome too, as different regulars hang out there, and someone may be able to help you.

  43. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Nerd, I’m so sorry.

    @Adam Jones: Unconscionable experiments have been performed and still are performed on animals. In my unfortunate experience (which in no way constitutes a scientifically useful data set) there has been a lot of “information” released which turned out to be confused, composites, or false.

    I’d take this as a serious possibility, but a flier is no proof.

    For a good primer on US law as related to animals used for experimentation, I’ve seen a lot worse than Michigan State University Law School’s summary. Start with “6. Science & the Use of Animals”.

    To find out how animals are being used @ UW-Madison or another major university, find the office of the VP-Research, then call that office with a question. They’ll refer you down, but you’ll get to the right person.

  44. says

    I just learned about misogynoir:

    Unlike sexism or racism where men and Whites proliferate them, respectively, and benefit from them (since institutions supports them) and at most, women and Blacks, respectively, can internalize it and project it but have no institutional power associated with it, misogyny can be proliferated by anyone (i.e. anyone can proliferate rape culture via victim blaming), and when they have other privilege (i.e. White or male privilege) it becomes especially perilous. This is how White women and Black men, for example, can proliferate anti-Black misogyny (misogynoir) against Black women, though White women cannot be sexist or Black men be racist, by definition. Them proliferating this specific misogyny reveals racism and internalized sexism on the White woman’s part and sexism and internalized racism on the Black man’s part. Of course the key to anti-Black misogyny has been White men. Literally every manifestation of stereotypes and controlling images used to oppress Black women via anything from appearance to sexuality have been historically proliferated and capitalized on (pun intended) by White men, including them establishing White womanhood as diametrically opposed to Black womanhood. Black women ourselves can also proliferate anti-Black misogyny as an expression of learned self-hatred or through binaries created because of the politics of respectability.

    Misogyny dehumanizes women in, general. Anti-Black misogyny (which functions because of racism, sexism and White supremacy) makes Black women “not human” and thereby worthy of hatred and abuse yet White women the standard of humanity that Black women should aspire to.

  45. sethm87 says

    Hello, all!

    It’s been ages since last I commented, and when I was gone….

    Dawkins let me down with his ridiculously ignorant tweets….

    Sam Harris disappointed me….

    America, in general, disappointed me.

    I need to vent!

  46. sethm87 says

    ….but mostly my life kinda blows right now, I’ve been wasting months debating “sophisticated” theologians, and I’m drunk.

  47. jrfdeux, mode d'emploi says

    Nerd
    So sorry to hear it. I’m Canadian, so the concept of being denied medical care is foreign to me, and having for-profit organizations decide who gets what care is a serious case of “I don’t even.” I feel a mixture of anger and bewilderment every time I hear about the private health insurance system in the US, and get positively worked up into a lather when I hear how the GOP tries to spin how “wonderful” non-universal health care is. Gah. Feeling a surge of anger-vomit.

    On a tenuously related note, I just got back from the RMT (Registered Massage Therapist). Up here in Canuckistan RMTs are full-fledged health care practitioners who go to school for 4 years to earn their designation. Lots of anatomy, physiology and sports medicine, etc. I have an ongoing problem with the bands of muscle that run on the outside of the shin bones in both legs. They get sore and feel inflamed and no amount of ibuprofen or naproxen helps, and ice only reduces the pain slightly. I have often wished I could just unzip my skin on both calves, pull out the muscle and connective tissue and just give it a good long S-T-R-E-T-C-H. GOD THAT WOULD FEEL SO GOOD OH PLEASE OH PLEASE.

    As it stands this one RMT has finally found my button and did something that felt like she had her fingertips under the muscle and was massaging it centimeter by centimeter, going from under my kneecap all the way down to my ankle. I would marry her if I could. Or maybe just her hands. I have not felt this kind of physical relief in months. Pain is there to remind you how good it feels when it’s not.

  50. says

    sethm87 @45/46:
    Welcome in/back to the Lounge.
    I came into atheism as a result of college courses on philosophic, logic, and ethics. I never read any books by Harris, Hitchens, Dennet, or Dawkins (just finished reading the God Delusion a few weeks ago), so I never viewed them as “heroes” or “icons” (or what have you). So I lack the affection for them that so many lack. Judging by the many responses I’ve seen about Harris and Dawkins, I can see that they had a strong effect on many people. It’s got to really fucking suck to see people you really respected turn out really shitty.

  52. sethm87 says

    Hi Tony,

    My respect (whatever of it remains) for Dawkins and Harris was born from their particular scientific fields. I loved The Greatest Show on Earth, for instance, and also have Dawkins has always taken creationists to task.

    But his most recent tweets. Wow. Is the man THAT clueless? Using *Twitter* and it’s highly compartmentalized nature to convey his backwards thinking? Yikes.

    If I may ask, what are some reasons you left your faith (I’m assuming christianity, but I may be wrong)?

  53. sethm87 says

    On a side note, has anyone else here ever engaged a “sophisticated” theologian (Randal Rauser comes to mind)?

  56. says

    I feel very fortunate about being raised atheist, because I never read any books to determine my atheism: it’s all there ever was for me. So I’ve lost no heroes in Dawkins or Harris or Hitchens, as I’ve never read their work.

    The more ex-religious people I meet, the more glad I am of that fortunate circumstance in my life, and what turned out to be an unexpectedly privileged thing.

  57. says

    Oh, and Gradient Lair, Trudy, is one of the best writers, particularly on misogynoir, that I know of. She’s often angry and good with that, and fair do’s, because she’s got plenty to be angry about. And she will not ever hesitate to tell you that your arse is showing, in her comment threads. I’ve had it happen a few times, and she was right each time.

    She also posts amazing photos of very beautiful Black women, particularly darker-complected/more African-featured women. I can’t recommend her blog enough. Be prepared as a reader to have your white privilege pulled out and displayed for you, in a way you really can’t avoid or argue about. If not clear, that’s entirely a good thing.

  58. says

    So, I just got a comment at my blog and I’m trying to think how best to respond to it. The comment is in response to my post the Buzzfeed Grenade (which references PZ’s Grenade thread and is a response to the recent Buzzfeed article on misoygny in the atheist movement):

    Suppose I agree with much of what you say about Shermer. He is a predator who takes advantage of women whenever he gets a chance at conferences. He’s probably more circumspect because all of this has come out. But do you honestly think there will be any long term consequences to this. He still makes a gazillion dollars on his magazine and books, and will have no shortage of conferences to attend on into the future. He didn’t sue PZ Myers because he correctly judged this would only make him look worse in the process. He might have been singed at the margins, but for all practical purposes he got away with it, and will continue to do so. So what do you hope to accomplish with this rant?

  59. gog says

    @ Crip Dyke

    Hey, thanks for all of that. Really. I agree with much of what you said. I was having a bit of an emotional meltdown earlier. It’s breen a really tough day.

    I’ve discussed some more matters with her and I guess there’s more to the story that I’ve been unaware of for the last couple of years. I don’t really need to go into too much detail, but I guess there’s already been goings on without my prior knowledge. I can’t say I’m surprised. Bits and pieces and old secrets have been coming out over the past few days and I had already guessed one of them.

    I’ve been reassured that it has nothing to do with me. I’m not sure how convinced I am of that, but maybe it’s just insecurity or jealousy talking. I’m trying not to put too much guilt on her. In the same vein, though, the nature of the relationship we have is actually different than I was aware of. We’ve lived together for almost three years now and I’m not sure what comes next. The future is very murky and I’m not sure what to do.

    For what it’s worth, though, thank you. You really cheered me up and I appreciate your willingness to offer advice, even if it’s not all exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you.

  61. A. Noyd says

    @Tony (#58)
    Say you’re trying to express solidarity with women and set an example for other men to help change the culture within atheism to something that no longer shelters and excuses rapists.

  62. says

    sethm87 @ 52:

    If I may ask, what are some reasons you left your faith (I’m assuming christianity, but I may be wrong)?

    I never really had a faith. My parents have always been vaguely religious. They believed in some form of the christian god and would pray to him, but we didn’t go to church (the first time I set foot in a church-to the best of my memory-was a funeral for a friend when I was in high school). I believed in some vague form of christianity until I hit college. Then I took philosophy 101 and was blown away. I took philosophy 201 and intro to ethics and for the first time in my entire life, I found a course that spoke to me (to this day, I’ll never forget my professor for all three courses telling me that I was one of the few students he’d ever had that grasped the studies with such ease). I was never interested in history or science, and I sucked at math. English was only vaguely interesting, and nothing else piqued my interest. I was really ambivalent about pretty much every course I’d taken in my life up to that point. When we started discussing ancient mythology, and morality, I began to realize that the ancient Greeks believed as fervently in their gods as people do today in the christian god. The exposure to other mythologies and seeing the similarities, as well as the lack of evidence for any of them led me to the conclusion that I couldn’t believe in a god. I’m sure the fact that I’m gay had something to do with it as well. I was frustrated with my same sex attraction for a while as a teenager, and living in a culture where I was taught that my sexuality was sinful had to have an effect on me (I never thought much about it bc, as I said, I didn’t go to church). By my early 20s I was definitely an atheist. It would take another 15 years or so until I became a Humanist and shortly after that, I discovered and was drawn to feminism.

  65. knowknot says

    @3 varady72

    I have met musicologists who’ve tried to argue that music is for music theorists, that only people with advanced training understand music. I’ve also met musicians who were very emphatic in saying that musical background matters and that….“basic aural skills, the ability to read music, and time spent playing in ensembles drastically alters one’s experience of music”

    – Interesting.
     
    This is going to be rambly. I kinda feel like it should be beautiful somehow, but ifI have the ability it remains that I honestly don’t have the time.
     
    I was trained musically (piano lessons as a kid, guitar as a kid, piano, theory and thematic analysis in college) and have spent years doing the building up and tearing down and rebiulding and whatever else it takes to attempt to make rhythms, melodies and harmonies work, and I will say this, unrepentantly: any musicologist who says anything like that desperately needs a very serious break away from all existing music and instruments, banging on things and finding a way to make and play instruments from scratch with whatever is lying around, with regular people, out of necessity because all the crap they’re used to is absent. Then they’ll have a shot at finding out who music is “for.”
     
    (Breath, because sentence.)
     
    Music happened before musicologists. That says something. Another thing that says something: the obvious effect music has on untrained people. The range of emotions it engenders. The amplified effect words have when woven into melody and rhythm. The need to have it present. And In some cases, the drive to become trained.
     
    But. I also emphatically agree that something like “basic aural skills, the ability to read music, and time spent playing in ensembles drastically alters one’s experience of music.” It seems to me it could hardly be otherwise. When the lines of a Bach piece twist around each other in the air, how could the physical, psychological and emotional effect NOT be changed by having wrung hose lines from your own mind and body?
     
    I think something similar is likely true of any endeavor. Watching a dancer likely has an enhanced on a person trained in dance. I can’t imagine that knowing what those moves     feel like, and having spoken the same physical language wouldn’t trigger an additional level of empathic response. I imagine the same is true in a different way for sports, or even skilled crafts.
     
    But. Again. Analysis can occur with neither emotional investment or feeling the to which vast majority of us refer when speaking of what music is, and what it does. I had a cousin who could play and memorize anything off a written page fantastically. I envied that. What I did not envy was the fact that he was pushing buttons. None of the phrases cried, or moaned, or mocked, or played, or questioned… it was mechanical. Now, for him, I imagine having practiced doing this and knowing how it all worked technically still changed his perception of music drastically, in that he knew how the mechanics worked. And there is a joy to the sense of flying you get when playing through something sweeping… I imagine he had that, though I really couldn’t say, because for me (and, I believe, for the majority of musicians I’ve known) that joy is physical in an emotional way, and emotional in a physical way. I never had that sense in his playing. And I’ve seen varying degrees of the same thing.
     
    There are people who love the purely analytical experience of music. I have no idea whatsoever what that’s like for them.
     
    What’s powerful is when the “analysis” becomes part of the full experience. There’s an old saying, with many variations “First you must learn the rules, then you must forget them.” It would be easy to say that the forgetting is actually “internalizing,” but I think that’s too simple. It’s more like the spirit behind the rules awakens, and overtakes the clumsy structure used in learning. I had one theory teacher who had a strange variation, apparently created in response to my asking him some kind of “but why…” question. It was “It’s all very complex. That’s why we tell the children all these lies.” (Except they’re not really lies. It’s just part of the fact that we only really begin to understand a “level” of anything when we’re at least the next level up. We can’t upload it all at once.)
     
    None of this means that an untrained person can’t have a profound experience of music. It mean that an untrained person can’t have a more profound experience of music than a trained person. It doesn’t mean that an untrained person can’t acquire a more profound experience of music by listening closely and deeply.
     
    What it comes down to is a “Mary the color scientist” sort of thing. What she gains by seeing red is… what it is. And we can’t experience it with her. So it is what it is. Something changes. Bless her.
     
    I have heard this question and this argument before. And I think, inside my personal head, that it really comes down to person A saying to person B that they’ve got something person B does not. And it’s invisible. And can’t be explained. And can’t be demonstrated. And the benifit of having it can’t be described. At which point the sane response from person B would be “Oh. Tea?”
     
    So, if someone thinks music is “for them,” fine. Let them have it. They can’t steal what you have. And I’m guessing you do have something, or you probably wouldn’t be asking. It can’t be defended, and doesn’t need o be.
     
    And if you feel some need to see if there is “different” available pursue it.

  67. says

    Libertarians are fond of ‘no regulations’, right?

    Rodent and roach activity caused 16 Central Florida restaurants to temporarily close in late July and August, the most recent data available — some for several days — and another one was closed permanently for unlicensed activity.

    Dairy Queen, at 3728 E. Curry Ford Road in Orlando, closed for four days after failing two inspections July 28 and July 30. Inspectors cited a total of 12 violations, including live roaches behind the sandwich make table, on the wall next to the deep fryer and various other places, as well as improper food temperatures and toxic substances/chemicals stored by or with food. It was allowed to re-open July 31.

    Meanwhile, Chez Pierre at 2215 W. Oakridge Road in Orlando was closed for a day after failing an Aug. 20 inspection that found 35 violations, including rodent droppings found on shelves next to clean food containers, a handwash sink not accessible for employee use at all times, improper food temperatures and food contact surfaces not sanitized after cleaning.

  70. knowknot says

    One last thing.
    Those so inclined MUST go to Daily Kos and see the image directly under
    ” Sunday Talk: … for John McCain! #GreatNews ”
    It is priceless.

  73. knowknot says

    @72 A. Noyd
    I’d never been there before, don’t think I’ll be back.
    You think someone actually paid for that?

  75. says

    A. Noyd @72, my eyes, my eyes!

    I think I’ll be confining myself to Pandagon from now on. Congratulations, Raw Story, I was wandering around reading random articles, but no more. What is it with sites getting more and more complicated and hard to explore *coughFTBcough*? I still try to read Skepchick, but they’ve gone all complicated too. Complicated does not equal new and shiny, folks.

  80. says

    @Giliell, #79

    Not “so what” at all. When I was in Missouri a couple years ago for my grandfather’s funeral, my grandmother refused to believe I was her grandson Nate.

  82. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    Rupt.

    JAL @ 189

    So breaching that subject on a different topic, might her more comfortable and maybe even open up later.

    I think I might bring it up as part of a larger meeting when we finally sit down and talk about how everything is going in her first six weeks.

    Friday afternoon, I suddenly thought maybe she read the Lounge. She told me how something went wrong, and I explained how to fix it, and she noticeably just listened, said she would fix it, and we moved on to the next thing. Then at the end of our discussion she said “I know I apologize too much, it’s a habit, I just want to make sure I’m doing things right.” I said I totally understood the impulse to apologize a lot, and that I just don’t want her to feel bad about things she can’t control.* So I’m guessing my “don’t waste energy” landed harder than I intended it to. So, I might talk to her and just say “Hey, sorry if I was terse the other day about that, tell me how you’re feeling about that whole thing.” At any rate, I make a conscious effort to explicitly tell her when she is doing well and how much I appreciate all her hard work.

    *I just realized that I am worrying about something I can’t control, which is how she feels. And if she feels bad about things she can’t control, that’s a problem for her to deal with. I just need to worry about being kind and whatnot.

    Huh. I learn things about myself, too, JAL. *hugs*
    Thanks for listening and talking about this with me.

    –

    I’m sipping coffee and knitting some legwarmers for a friend’s almost-six-year-old. I’m pretty pleased with the new lace pattern I found. And it’s not even hurting me right now to knit.

    *hugs* all around.

  83. opposablethumbs says

    Not a small thing at all, Giliell. I still remember my gran noticing and liking the fresh flowers my mum and I took her one time; she was in a bad way at the time, and that noticing and liking was a lot right then.

  85. says

    Giliell, *hugs*. That sounds like a big thing to me.

    Dalillama, Happy Anniversary to you and L!

    Paul and the girls (mostly Emily) got the new fancy-schmancy printer-scanner-whatever set up yesterday. I helped a bit too – they couldn’t find the power cord, Paul was all ready to drive back to Staples, when I found it. By stepping on it. Bundle of black cord, black area on the rug, bare feet, I went over to look through all the packing materials one more time, and there it was. Also I was able to print a document from Nixie this morning; Nexus tablets come with an app for HP wireless printers and ours is the right kind. Yay me.

    Now if I can just figure out where to load more paper, I could print that e-book on bead embroidery I’ve been saving. Aha, I lifted something, and there was a paper tray. Go me.

  88. says

    awakeinmo, enjoy the quiet while it lasts.

    I might as well have the house to myself, too – Kitty’s locked in her room, probably listening to anime songs on her laptop, Paul and Emily went to Huntington Beach for a morning of beach walking and birdwatching, and I’m going to listen to KPCC (Car Talk at 10, yay), put away laundry, and try to restart an embroidery project that’s been stalled for too long. Or I might just spend the morning drinking tea and reading.

  89. The Mellow Monkey says

    After seeing a bunch of racist, sexist or just plain offensive images floating around Twitter and Tumblr from FCKH8 (they’re the ones behind that “Racism Isn’t Over, But I’m Over Racism” shirt), I thought I should pass this on for those who aren’t aware.

    Further info here.

    And:

    If anyone was wondering, this is how chillingly dangerous social media and marketing can be. This is how a company manipulates people effectively; by using zeitgeist tactics to inspire people to answer to an emotional call. This is slanted advertising at its finest, using key words and hash tags like #ferguson and #racism to promote product sales. Of course these issues are important. But do not buy into FCKH8’s trap of ignorance. Remember the issues that you stood for about a year ago, when FCKH8 was denouncing the existence of Aces, shaming bisexuals, exploiting LGBTQ groups by using celebrities to speak on their behalf.

    Try not to be so eager to reblog something just because some organization is speaking out for a certain cause. Remember that all marketing is manipulative. All of it. They are trying to persuade you to buy a product. That is the nature of marketing, and we need to be aware of that.

  90. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Dalillama & L:

    Happy bel8d anniversary.

  92. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    TMM:
    I didn’t know that about FCKH8. Thanks.
    Cuppa joe?

    CD:
    I’m catching up and I found your polyamory thoughts very interesting. Thanks.
    also, hi, hugs, good to see you:)

    –

    I’ve run out of places to put my books. I have a lot of home rearranging to do. Sigh.

    I made pizza from scratch last night for the first time. I was astonished how tasty it was. So freaking yummy. I was worried about the dough, but it worked out.

  93. A. Noyd says

    @TheMellowMonkey (#89)
    Yeah, I just saw how they were demanding an apology from an anti-racism nonprofit for questioning the motives behind that t-shirt. (The post is also on the stopfckh8 tumblr you linked, but it could use some of its own attention.) Note that the video mentioned is the one PZ linked a few days ago.

  94. says

    Aiyiyi. This is painful to contemplate:
    https://tech.lds.org/blog/609-ldstech-2014-contest

    Gospel App & Game Contest

    New for 2014, the LDSTech-sponsored Gospel App & Game Development Contest culminates at the LDSTech Conference2014.

    LDSTech encourages developers of all levels and abilities to join in this contest to Create*Something*Worthy. From mazes to “where are we?” to “scripture golf”, if you have an idea for a gospel or Church related software application, now is the time to make it happen!

    Categories and Awards
    Apps and Games may be developed for Apple, Android, Windows, or online platforms in the following categories:
    Primary
    Youth
    Family

    Awards, prizes, and recognition will be offered for each category, plus additional awards for teen, senior, and first time creators. And of course, there’s the personal satisfaction you’ll receive from your accomplishment!

    Starter Ideas
    Since the gospel is infinite, so are the possibilities for gospel-related applications and games. See the idea and wish list page for specific starter ideas (or to add ideas for apps you’d like to see).

    Be Creative!
    Find ideas from existing popular apps and improve them — “create something worthy”.
    What kinds of games and apps could help you, your children, your grandchildren, or others:
    have gospel-oriented fun?
    strengthen testimonies?
    develop personally?
    enjoy graphic-violence-free leisure and play time?
    serve more effectively?
    connect with gospel and Church themes rather than worldly themes? […]

  97. questioningkat says

    This comment is to gog.

    Whenever I’m in a dilemma, I like to make an analogy so I can be better detached emotionally and make a better decision.

    Your employer has decided that they are going to hire a freelancer (with the potential of being full time) to take over/share many of the duties you have at work.
    Here are some potential drawbacks:
    Afterall, there is only so much time and work to hand around. This could mean that you could lose some of the “sweet” jobs to this new employee.

    The employer could decide that they prefer this new freelancer to you and fire you.

    You really don’t want to share in your responsibilities.

    This may free up your time to pursue other interests.

    This new freelancer means that the personal dynamics between you and your employer will change.

    The new freelancer may be getting paid more than you.

    Your employer may be having some subconscious second thoughts about you and is transitioning you with a new person rather than letting you go and not having someone to fill their needs.

    Here is something for certain:

    Somehow you are not fully fulfilling your employer’s needs even though they supposedly like you.

    Your employer is not fully fulfilling your needs and there is a mismatch between your needs. You are being asked to compromise what you want in order to keep your employer happy and continue being in this relationship.
    _____

    Here’s my view. Life is too short to live it in a way that is not fulfilling to what you really want. Ask yourself if you are afraid of being alone. It sounds as if you know she is not the one for you, but are holding on out of some insecurity – why else post this online to strangers? It seems as if she is your confidant and now you cannot confide in her. (Who else is there that you can confide in? No one? Then this is an issue that needs to be solved.) There are tons of women who want what you want. I suggest going online and seeing if there is someone better suited for you. If Your “job” is not working. It’s time to get your resume together and looking for a new dream “job.”

    I’d bet big money on this that you will eventually dump her. Seriously, dump her. Take her open relationship as an opportunity to look elsewhere. EVEN DATE YOURSELF. Within one year, I guarantee you, you will be so happy that this drama is over.

  98. says

    Actually…wouldn’t it be fun/funny to make a game that actually laid out for the player a bunch of the decisions in the Bible?

    “Your daughter has been raped by a stranger. Do you:

    a) have her stoned to death?
    b) sell her to the rapist for marriage?
    c) disown her and send her off into the world to be a prostitute?

    YOU DECIDE! IT’S A BIBLICAL CHOOSE-YOUR-OWN-ADVENTURE!”

    It’d be awesome, dreadful, dangerous, and hilarious, all at the same time.

  99. eric123 says

    I was waiting for another PZ swipe at libertarianism to post this, so now seems as good a time as any.

    Some of you may have been following writer Mark Ames’ unearthing of libertarian Reason magazine’s holocaust denial issue. Yes, you read that right.

    “The German concentration camps weren’t health centers, but they appear to have been far smaller and much less lethal than the Russian ones.”
    —Reason magazine, January 1976

    “Astonishingly, in February 1976, Reason dedicated an entire “special issue” to promoting Holocaust deniers, under the guise of so-called “historical revisionism.”

    PandoDaily contacted noted Holocaust historian and Holocaust Museum expert Deborah Lipstadt to ask her opinion. In 2000, Lipstadt won a much-publicized libel trial in Britain against a leading Holocaust denier, David Irving. When we shared with her the list of Reason’s “special issue” contributors and authors positively cited in the issue, Lipstadt described it as “the Who’s Who of early American Holocaust deniers.”

    There’s a strong Koch brothers tie-in as well.

    http://pando.com/2014/07/24/as-reasons-editor-defends-its-racist-history-heres-a-copy-of-its-holocaust-denial-special-issue/

    Even for those of us who have a rather low opinion of libertarianism, believing it to be a sticky little mouse trap for narrow and limited minds, the revelations in Ames’ piece might still come as a shock. There are certain floors below which, out of charitableness, we don’t expect our opponents to sink. But then they do.

    Another related link for your consideration:
    https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/shuts-down-the-holocaust/43201b3a2936ec68c823ff596b0a27c529ea9350/

  100. rq says

    A. Noyd @93
    Thanks for that link to the demand for apology.

    +++

    Too many apples this weekend
    Alternatively, got a nice romantic shot of a spider on grass at sunset, silhouette against the rosy sky.
    Also, fog. Creepy, thick, hypnotic fog, backlit by half-moon and stars. No photo, but the drive in sure was… interesting. Almost missed the road on a few corners; do not envy Husband at the steering wheel.

  101. rq says

    CaitieCat
    Might also be a learning experience for some people who otherwise wouldn’t think about such things.

  102. Vicki, duly vaccinated tool of the feminist conspiracy says

    gog,

    I don’t come here as regularly as some people, but if you want them, some more thoughts on polyamory, from someone who has been poly for a long time:

    CripDyke said a lot of good things already.

    I’ll add to that: talking to your partner(s) is good. I’m putting it that way because if you and your girlfriend do have other romantic entanglements, those are going to be with real people, who have their own desires, ideas, and limits. It won’t be as simple as “my girlfriend and I have concluded that this will work, find people who fit within that.” You’ll need to talk to the potential other partners and see whether what you’re offering works for them, and if not, whether you’re willing to make adjustments.

    I suspect your girlfriend has spent quite a bit of time thinking about what she wants within that broad category of “a polyamorous relationship”—or, possibly, decided quickly that she wants a particular shape of things, but has been settled there for a while. It’s new to you, and you can reasonably ask her for some time to think about more details of what’s meant there.

    For example, you said you have veto power on each other’s other relationships. Does that mean you and your girlfriend can say “don’t get involved with that person” without a reason, or do you have to say why? At least as important, can you or she veto each other’s already-started relationships? I know people for whom that works well, but I wouldn’t want it, which at one point meant telling an existing partner that I was willing to slow down and give him a chance to meet/get to know the woman I was considering getting involved with. (He said he didn’t need to, he’d trust my judgment, and it has worked out well. But I didn’t want to get involved, fall in love, and then have to stop for reasons other than that she or I wanted to.)

  103. Alverant says

    I’m ambivalent about Rawstory’s new design too. I don’t like how you have to load the comments separately from the main story. I’ll get used to it. At least they’re trying something different. Maybe they’ll modify it again if there are enough complaints.

    In other news my credit card number got stolen last night and someone tried to use it twice at gas stations. I don’t have to pay for it, but the card did get canceled and I had to switch all my auto-payments to my back-up card and switch them again once I get my new card. It’s a pain, but what else can I do?

  104. Alverant says

    New question, what would Humanism be called in a society with aliens? Wouldn’t Humanism be mis-interpreted as some kind of human supremacist philosophy?

  105. blf says

    I’m scaly and swim a lot.

    Ah, we are now a wobble closer to learning what a “Shoop” is. I must admit, scales were not part of my mental image at all, which was more along the lines of a six-legged coobeastie with possibly two heads. It’s a bit hard to tell if it has one or two heads, since one of the “heads” is wearing what seems to be a “Viking”-style horned helmet, backwards. Most notable feature, however, is the pouch filled with assorted alcoholic drinks.

    (And I usually imagine it in the vicinity of flying pink elephants.)

  106. rq says

    Also CaitieCat @9 rE: polyamory (I’m slow to catch up)
    I have some small issue with this phrase:

    Not everyone is suited to it

    Not entirely sure why, though. I think partially because it implies you need a certain type of personality to be successful in polyamorous relationships (which could well be true), but in a permanent, non-mutable kind of way. Whereas liking cheese and pop music are… kind of matters of taste, which can change and develop over one’s life.
    Partially I don’t like that formulation because it’s good at shutting down conversation (as happened last time there was some discussion of polyamory in the Lounge, several Lounges ago). It’s hard to continue exploring what might be products of culture or upbringing when someone just comes in and says, “Oh hey, some people just don’t have the character for it!” Okay, thanks, and here I thought it might help for me to discuss stringent ideas about what constitutes a ‘real’ relationship, and maybe discover that some jealous/insecure/fear impulses might be resolved if I can discuss them openly – but if it’s a matter of character or disposition or temperament, well… thanks? I guess?
    I don’t know, maybe that sounds privileged of me, as you know far more about polyamorous relationships than I do. But I would assume that polyamorous people come in all kinds of characters and dispositions, just like everyone else. Just as monogamous people do. Just some monogamous people might be stuck in monogamous thinking due to upbringing and/or culture, and a lack of resources or friendly spaces to discover otherwise.
    Am I being an asshole? :/

  107. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    rq

    Am I being an asshole? :/

    Nope. I do disagree with you though. I think that this “not for everyone” attitude has developed in response to people who are assholes about polyamory. I’ve read about it quite a bit, though I haven’t engaged in it, so I’m no expert obviously. But most polyamorists I’ve read say this in reaction to poly people who are all “We’re so enlightened, human beings aren’t meant to be monogamous” etc etc. So it’s the least jerkface way to be, as far as I can tell.

    Maybe you can clarify for me, because my reading of Cait is that she’s saying it could be subject to change, by grouping it in with cheese and music. That is, it’s a matter of taste, and there’s no moral judgment about it because it’s personal preference. It’s an amoral choice. Thoughts?

  108. says

    I don’t think so, rq. Being an asshole, I mean. It’s a fair point.

    My main point in that statement was to say, “it’s okay if it’s just not for you.” I see ‘comfort with polyamoury for oneself’ as being similar to one’s orientation, and perhaps one day it will be: “I’m poly-pan,” or “I’m poly-gay,” or “I’m mono-hetero”, or whatever. It was meant to be, “Not that there’s anything wrong with that,” without the Seinfeld smugness or implication that there really should be.

    Does that help? I’m sorry I was unclear. In fact, when I mentioned cheese, I was thinking of my own lactose intolerance because I’d just turned down having cheese in the omelette someone was making, having had some bad experiences recently with cheese. But of course that’s in my head, not in the text, so my bad, for sure. Aim was for nonjudgemental preemptive acceptance of whatever place gog ended up being in.

  109. says

    The phrase ‘gospel oriented fun’ (from Lynna’s #94) will not depart my brain. It’s like a mindworm (like an earworm) that I really, really, don’t want.
    Come to think of it, how do you ‘strengthen testimonies’?
    Is it like saying “god saved me” vs “God Saved Me” vs “GOD SAVED ME” vs “GOD SAVED MEEEEEEEEEEEEE” ? Can you get stronger than that?

  110. rq says

    CaitieCat and Portia
    Yes, that makes sense. And yes, I agree that it’s not for everyone, just like monogamy isn’t for everyone, or any relationship model, for that matter… And yes, character can change over time. Just seems a bit dismissive at the same time, but the clarification helped.
    Anyway. Sorry. I realize I’ve kind of come back from the weekend with a bang.

  111. says

    Or, What Portia Said, better. The mutability is also important, but then, I see my own orientation as having been unexpectedly mutable too. I went from being hetero when perceived as a man, to dyke as a woman, to bi-dyke when I realised I kinda enjoyed sex with men on this side of the fence, to just pan-dyke now, because I’ve realised that I just don’t really give a damn about the gender or genitals of the person I’m with as much as who they are. That’s not an expression of superiority to anyone, just how I’m built. And I don’t mean to suggest anyone else’s orientation is or should be mutable. In my case, I think it was more a realisation that the boxes I kept building didn’t really hold all of me, and that in reality I’d probably been pretty pansexual all my life, just hadn’t noticed or allowed myself to notice or whatever, for various usually identity-based reasons (I’m totally not gay or feminine! Well, okay, I’m feminine, but I still like women! And I’m culturally a dyke, and as we all know, dykes don’t do boys! Well, okay, I like men too, but not those weird trans* or genderless people! Well, okay, I…oh, fuckit).

    And yes, it was definitely a reaction to the people who position themselves as being somehow more advanced or whatever for being poly. I’m not, in any way, more ethically advanced or superior or anything like it. All of my beliefs in this apply to me, and me only, because I’m the only one I know about, and I can’t see any way in which I’m better than anyone. I’m glad that I was able to finally realise what my own orientation was, but I don’t suggest for a second that ‘not filtering on gender or number’ is a ‘better’ position than any other, it just happens to be mine.

    If that made any sense.

  114. says

    And rq, for me at least, you’ve nothing to apologise for. You’re right, it was ambiguous, and without my headcanon, could easily be read as being dismissive. I appreciate your comment in that regard, too, because knowing I’m being unclear in my writing is helpful in making it less unclear next time. :)

  116. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @rq, #106:

    Am I being an asshole?

    No, I don’t think so. At least not in the common colloquial sense. Or the literal sense, I guess.

    “Some people aren’t suited” is a phrase one could argue over, and you’re arguing politely.

    On the other hand, “some people aren’t suited” is not the same thing as “some people are born unsuited” or “some people will never be suited” or some other formulation that implies inherence and permanence.

    So I wouldn’t have brought it up, but it’s not an “asshole” point to make.
    ===============
    :pouncehug!: for Portia! (#92)

    How are you?

    I’ve run out of places to put my books.

    Books as crown molding.

    I made pizza from scratch last night for the first time.

    I do this occasionally, and more often I use naan as my crust and just pour on some garlic & basil, marinara (homemade or otherwise, depending), available veggies, available non-vegan cheese, hungarian paprika, a bit of fresh cracked black pepper.

    Freaking awesome. The home made crust sends me looking for more superlatives, but the deliciousness of the version using naan out of the fridge is far better than one would expect for something so easy to make.

    As for polyamory, glad to have contributed something interesting.

  117. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Tony!, #113:

    How about a Galaga style app that allows players to fire energy blasts that destroy sins

    Gives a whole new meaning to:

    Going for the Hail Mary!

  118. says

    Alverant @103:
    Damn. Sorry to hear about the CC theft. It does sound like a pain in the ass having to do all that switching. Any idea how your CC # got stolen?

    @104:

    New question, what would Humanism be called in a society with aliens? Wouldn’t Humanism be mis-interpreted as some kind of human supremacist philosophy?

    Not sure on the first. I think ‘yes’ is the answer to the second. Probably we’d need to invent a new word. Maybe something that encompasses all sentient beings.

  119. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    CD:

    Your homemade pizza sounds delish. I love naan.
    And those bookshelves are so cool.
    :D

  121. rq says

    Okay. Thanks for taking the time to make me feel better, poly (and non poly) people. :)
    Now, who would like a glass of 20% two-years fermented home-made apple ummm wine that (to be honest) Husband and I forgot about but is delicious? Also, it’s so dark it’s black.

  122. says

    rq @106:

    But I would assume that polyamorous people come in all kinds of characters and dispositions, just like everyone else. Just as monogamous people do. Just some monogamous people might be stuck in monogamous thinking due to upbringing and/or culture, and a lack of resources or friendly spaces to discover otherwise.

    When I read “not everyone is suited to it”, I think about the people who not only value and seek only monogamous relationships, but are hostile to the idea of polyamoury (sp?). I would think they would be “not suited to it”.
    Either way, no, I don’t think you’re an asshole.

  125. says

    Indeed it is, Tony. Yay rq and Portia!

    In good news for me, my breathing hitch has finally calmed. Taking the hint about my earlier mention that it was making it hard to sleep, and wondering if that relationship went two ways, I dropped extra muscle relaxants last night, of (ahem) a couple of kinds, and then took some sleep aids to make sure I got through a full* night of six hours or so. A bit of careful self-massage on the heat setting with the Big Honkin’ Vibrator of Doom (it looks something like the one on this site, only larger, heavier, and believe me, in no way something you likely want near any sensitive bits), and I’m able to draw full-sized breaths again. Yay! I like breathing! I’m addicted to it, you might say (and the withdrawal symptoms don’t bear thinking about!).

    * For me, six hours is the limit, because after six hours, my 12-hour slow-release oxy are no longer effective, and I get my built-in alarm going off, yelling “OW!” in my brain with louder and louder signals.

  128. rq says

    CaitieCat
    I’m glad the breathing hitch has calmed, that’s a bit scary. As for the vibrator… Looks like something that needs a warning label. ;) Heavy machinery and all that…

  129. says

    I think that when you’ve been raised with mandatory heterosexual monogamy, you have a lot to unpack once you even consider the existence of other varieties of relationships.
    I’ve thought a lot about these things in the last years, thanks to many interesting conversations with you folks and quetioned my own assumptions. If that makes sense, I will say that I’m in principle no longer as heterosexual and as monogamous as I used to be, but in practise I still am and I have atm no intention to change that.
    Because sure it’s something that needs emotional work and I haz no spoons. It’s also something that needs time, which means that Mr. would have 5 nights a week for having fun with somebody else while I would take care of our children being theoretically poly. Not exactly what I have in mind.
    So, yeah, maybe ask me again in 15 years time ;)

  130. johnlee says

    I recently re-read John Wyndham’s “The Chrysalids”, a favourite from my teenage years, and I still found it a really great read. It’s by far his best book, much better than the better known “Day of the Triffids”, and a book with a strong message about how damaging religous fundamentalism is. It was written in 1955, and is still a wonderful piece of Science Fiction.
    What I would like to know is why nobody has made this into a film? If any of you out there are budding directors, eager to get your hands on a good story that says something, look no further. Can you get on with it please?

  131. says

    PSA: please keep in mind that a plastic cup, placed upside down to cover the shower drain, will flood the bathroom eventually, as just demonstrated by my youngest son.

  132. says

    That would probably be a good idea. It feels like a sort of pair of toy jackhammers when it’s doing its thing, but I kind of need that to work through my back muscles when they’re knotted. If I can’t afford an RMT*, it’s the cheap/poor substitute. And the long handle, while making it much heavier, does make it more useful for self-work.

    But definitely not something that most people will want near anything sensitive or delicate.

    * One of the best things about Canadian supplementary health care: the regulation and standards of the RMT program, which leads to massage-as-therapy that is truly useful in the treatment of musculoskeletal disorders – the Ontario standard is 2200 hours of classroom and hands-on training). The main problem is that it’s not covered by the health insurance, at least in Ontario, but most employers’ supplemental health packages have it. I’ve had a lot of temporary but very valuable relief from the ministrations of an RMT.

  133. says

    SQB @131:
    Yikes! How bad is it?

    ****

    johnlee @130:

    I recently re-read John Wyndham’s “The Chrysalids”, a favourite from my teenage years, and I still found it a really great read. It’s by far his best book, much better than the better known “Day of the Triffids”, and a book with a strong message about how damaging religous fundamentalism is. It was written in 1955, and is still a wonderful piece of Science Fiction.
    What I would like to know is why nobody has made this into a film? If any of you out there are budding directors, eager to get your hands on a good story that says something, look no further. Can you get on with it please?

    Hold on, gotta roll out the welcome mat before I respond.
    ::unfurls the darn thing, wondering the whole time why we roll it up in the first place::
    Ok. All done. Welcome to the Lounge!

    As for the book, I’ve not heard of it, but I’m still bitter about how Hollywood butchered the recent adaptation of Richard Matheson’s 1954 book ‘I Am Legend’ (I’m referring to the Will Smith monstrosity), so I don’t know if I want them to adapt another socially conscious book from that time period. Maybe an indie filmmaker though…

  135. says

    Actually not all that bad, since the old drain in the floor is still there. So it just went over the edge of the slower ‘tub’ (tublet?) on the floor, and I was able to direct it to the old drain.

    I just like to turn up the drama a bit (but not to 11) when sharing.

  136. says

    Sorry, my 132 was to rq’s @128. Got interrupted in writing it, had to move to the laptop, and lost track of time a bit.

    Giliell @129, that makes sense to me. For some people, being poly doesn’t require any more investment of time than being mono, while for some it does require more. In not knowing, and not wanting to lose your current relationship, not trying it right now is probably a better choice for you. But life is long, except in the ways that it isn’t.

    johnlee @130, I love John Wyndham. He’s got some his-time-common views about women – mostly ‘benevolent sexism’ type stuff – and I don’t recall much in the way of anyone not-white in his books, but he’s not egregiously problematic outside those very common issues in published authors of the 50s/60s (with all the caveats about who got published definitely included).

    At least when I was in school, Chrysalids was on the public curriculum in Ontario for…maybe Grade 8 kids, say thirteen-year-olds? I’m not sure if it still is. I loved it, though, so much, for its realistic portrayal of how it might be to have people who are…different?…among us. I don’t want to spoil it. His short stories, to me, were his best work, but his ‘novels’ – usually novella-length – are a bag of good to brilliant stuff. The short about breeders/workers – the Mothers, I can’t remember the story’s name, and someone’s sleeping in my library just now – was pretty creepy/chilling when I was still presenting as a man, I think re-reading it as a feminist would be interesting. Memory suggests I would find a fair bit of his language and imagery problematic from a now-perspective, though again not outside the socially-aware level for men in his time.

    Triffids was an interesting post-apocalyptic of its time, and I liked his social awareness of the different paths people might take, some venal, some altruistic, some just self-oriented. Midwich Cuckoos cries out for a better film treatment than Village of the Damned, that’s for sure, and a chilling possibility for a message about bodily autonomy, too. I’d like to see that one made by a woman, because I think the different perspective that a woman might take on that story would be fascinating. In fact, what a good story that might be. Hmm.

    Also, welcome to the Lounge, johnlee! :)

  140. says

    Damn, this idiot on my blog just pulled out their ‘free speech absolutism card’. They hit the center square “stick and stones…” bullshit. Given this persons defense of Dawkins, and dismissal of what Dawkins and Harris have said, combined with the free speech stuff, I’m getting a strong Libertarian vibe. They’ve been disdainful of FtB, but not to the point that I’m ready to hit the ban button, but it’s annoying how tiresome this crap is.

  141. Rob Grigjanis says

    CaitieCat @136:

    Midwich Cuckoos cries out for a better film treatment than Village of the Damned

    Do you mean the 1960 version, the 1995 version, or both? I thought the 1960 version (with George Sanders and Barbara Shelley) was quite good, and faithful to the novel IIRC.

  142. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    unfurls the darn thing, wondering the whole time why we roll it up in the first place

    The Pullet Patrol™ roll it up for their square dancing contests.

  143. says

    Tony @109:

    The phrase ‘gospel oriented fun’ (from Lynna’s #94) will not depart my brain. It’s like a mindworm (like an earworm) that I really, really, don’t want.
    Come to think of it, how do you ‘strengthen testimonies’? […]

    Sorry for the mindworm. It is truly a shudder-inducing concept, and that’s why it sticks.

    I’m thinking of developing a first-person-shooter game for mormon teens. They are required to recognize all of the mormon General Authorities and shoot them before they cause further mayhem. The “recognize” part is actually on the list of “app ideas” provided by LDA Tech Services. The shooting part, not so much.

    BTW, I think you strengthen your mormon testimony by standing up in Testimony Meeting and declaring in public, “I know …” about a whole bunch of shit you really have no way of knowing, like that “the Church is true.” You do this repeatedly throughout your life.

    You also strengthen your testimony by allowing yourself to be brainwashed into following the commands of mormon leaders, like when your Bishop assigns you to clean the Ward toilets. Cleaning toilets is a job they used to pay janitors to do before they decided it would be good idea to give members another opportunity to strengthen their testiphonies. As a result, many mormon bathrooms are really gross, and many ward buildings are dirty, stinky, and worse than they used to be. I know this to be true.

  144. Vicki, duly vaccinated tool of the feminist conspiracy says

    I know a few people who, having thought about it, concluded that they weren’t suited for polyamory; some of this was in discussion on the Usenet group alt.polyamory, back when. That’s not just the “I’d be too jealous” people; it includes someone who has never been in love with more than one person at a time, and isn’t interested in sex with people she’s not in love with.

    That, or my much-missed friend Mike, who was only interested in one partner himself, but entirely happy that she had other partners, both feel different from people being monogamous because it’s never occurred to them that there are other alternatives. (Mike self-described as monogamous, but “not suited for polyamory” could also mean “for a polyamorous relationship,” and he was in one.)

  145. says

    Tony, here a few explanations of mormon testimony, as explained by ex-mormons:

    For a Mormon, they’ll say, “I testify to you that the Church is true,” because they believe that their good feelings are all the evidence that they need to prove it to be so.

    They believe that the Holy Ghost has witnessed the truth to them, so they are testifying of that witness.
    ——————-
    Sadly, a mormon testimony is whispered in the ear of a young child, then vocally repeated by the child. This continues until the child can repeat the lines […] as if their own. As the child grows they attach emotional encounters to the testimony […] The one liner the child bears is “I know the church is true” they vocalize the statement as if reveling their given name to a stranger. […] “Hi, my name is John, I know the church is true”. We know the parents named this person John, this is a fact and a true statement. The second part is just like the first, a statement presented as fact given to the child from birth, […]
    ——————-
    Receiving a “witness” usually means some emotional reponse one
    had at one time that was INTERPRETED to mean the Church was
    true. This can be a “peaceful feeling” or a full-blown vision.

    But having a “Testimony” means that you will not revisit that
    experience and that you will not question your INTERPRETATION
    of it.

    This is why so many things are “too sacred to discuss.” To
    discuss them would be to open them to reassessment. And the
    TESTIMONY says that the decision has already been made and
    won’t be questioned.

  148. says

    CaitieCat @98:

    Actually…wouldn’t it be fun/funny to make a game that actually laid out for the player a bunch of the decisions in the Bible?
    “Your daughter has been raped by a stranger. Do you:
    a) have her stoned to death?
    b) sell her to the rapist for marriage?
    c) disown her and send her off into the world to be a prostitute?
    YOU DECIDE! IT’S A BIBLICAL CHOOSE-YOUR-OWN-ADVENTURE!”
    It’d be awesome, dreadful, dangerous, and hilarious, all at the same time.

    Exactly. You are taking a somewhat similar approach to the one that some ex-mormon game developers are taking. Should be fun when the contest judges get those entries.

    The “gospel” for mormons also includes the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants, the Book of Abraham, etc. So they’ve got lots to work with.

  149. Nick Gotts says

    The Simpsons’ Groundskeeper Willie Shares His Thoughts on Scottish Independence – birgirjohansson@76

    Thanks! Sent it to my son, who is still undecided; if Groundskeeper Wille can’t convince him, who could?

    Campaigning for “Yes” is taking up much of the time I’d otherwise spend on Pharyngula at present, so I’m pretty completely blogrupt. The vote looks like being close – I still think a narrow “No” is most likely, but a “Yes” win has certainly grown in plausibility. The Westminster parties are looking badly panicked.

    Also preparing to spend some time in Turin, where my wife has taken a job teaching English. I have some possible contacts at the university. We’ll keep a base in Scotland, and certainly be home for Independence Day!

  150. says

    Here’s another suggestion for the LDS contest to develop a “gospel-centered iOS, Android or Windows game or app that will help flood the marketplace with quality entertainment alternatives for [mormon] families”:

    This is another suggestion on their “Apps ideas” page: “Via personality clues, see how fast you can identify Old Testament, New Testament, BofM [Book of Mormon], DnC [Doctrine and Covenants] personalities and characters […]”

    I could see this fitting in very well with the rapist, pedophile, scam artist, psychopath, genocidal leader etc. etc. personality traits. There might be a problem with multiple correct answers.

    More LDS “app ideas” here: https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Apps_ideas

  151. says

    Also from the mormon “app ideas” page:

    “App that creates ‘Church mode’ to manage sound and other features of any apps used, or to restrict some apps/features.”

    Now we know what all those mormon kids are doing during the boring 3-hour-long church service.

  155. says

    Giliell, TF couldn’t be more deserving of such an honor.

    It’s 102° in our backyard. At 3PM. One. Hundred. And two degrees. At least we have functioning a/c, although I am trying not to think about our electric bill.

    I cannot even contemplate how hot it must be at Aged Mum’s, and since she refuses to buy a portable a/c unit or leave the house for a cooling center (or indeed for any other reason), she’s probably stewing slowly right now. I hate September in southern California.

  156. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Portia:

    That’s so great!

    Now if we could just get the school to put forth some papers based on Merchant of Venice. A special law journal issue, maybe:

    “Bedding Best Buddies of Defendants: Does it provide a good view of the facts?”
    “Shylock v Antonion: A case for arbitration?”
    and, of course,
    “Cross-dressing: A necessity for triers of law?”

  158. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    I’m writing trivia questions for a trivia night next week. I went searching for a way to work “Portia” into the questions and that result was far better than i had hoped :D

    Friend who is writing these with me suggested “American history” as a category. I’m tempted to send him all questions about Canadian, Brazilian, and Mexican history and say “OOoooh, you meant United States of America history…oh.” ^_^

  159. Shadow_Nirvana says

    Hi, I posted this in a thread a while back. Thanks to Crip Dyke and brett who answered and suggested I also take it to the lounge, so here goes:

    “Don’t know if this will get any replies because it’s past a couple of posts. But, from the nude photo leakage bullshit to this Gamergate stuff, man, the last week has been taxing. First trying to make sense of all the people trying to look at stolen photos instead of standing against the injustice, then trying to speak sense into all the apologists on websites making all sorts of victim-blaming arguments and then this obvious harassment tool trying to be passed off as “legitimate concerns and criticisms”.
    I read Mattie Brice’s last post ather blog : http://www.mattiebrice.com/moving-on/
    and her second to last post : http://www.mattiebrice.com/how-do-i-help/
    and she says something very eye-opening: “You cannot solve the big problems and they will most likely still be there when you’re dead.”
    And it got me thinking, is “progress” just a lie we tell ourselves? Are we really going to progress through these stuff or is it just going to be the “same old same old” bigotry forever. If anything, the 60s, 70s activism had hope because they were accomplishing something. Now we are just seeing fundamentalism on the rise, racism coming back full force, sexism and misogyny becoming not only acceptable but people who fight against it are getting laughed at as over-whiny, sees rape everywhere etc. Are things ever going to get better?
    I know this is a pessimistic first post. But I feel drained and miserable. I can’t understand how people like Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian keep going on without having mental breakdowns every three minutes. I felt like I was going to cry when I was trying to speak sense into people about pictures that weren’t even mine.”

    I feel a bit better now(compared to last week when I wrote that post), but this week’s stunts by Richard Dawkins and his followers was also very … blergh. I also hate the “but we’re the real feminists” argument that people like Christina Hoff Sommers and TheFineYoungCapitalists(the “feminist” dude getting backed by Gamergate).

  160. says

    Alverant

    New question, what would Humanism be called in a society with aliens?

    I actually recently read a science fiction series that has such a term, but blast if I can remember what it was; Sentientarian, I think, but I could be misrecalling. The series was Theirs Not To Reason Why by Jean Johnson if you’re interested in going and having a look.

  161. procrastinatorordinaire says

    @Nick Gotts

    Also preparing to spend some time in Turin, where my wife has taken a job teaching English.

    I’m stuck in Cardiff now, but I spent most of my adult life in Turin. In fact, I wish I was still there. I can’t help feeling a bit envious of you. Best of luck!

  162. opposablethumbs says

    Friend who is writing these with me suggested “American history” as a category. I’m tempted to send him all questions about Canadian, Brazilian, and Mexican history and say “OOoooh, you meant United States of America history…oh.” ^_^

    Please do this, Portia! Argentinean history, Chilean, Nicaraguan …. 36 countries! This would be such a Good Thing :-)

  163. Alverant says

    @Tony,
    No idea how the number got stolen. It’s my main card and I don’t use cash much. I have two candidates, but I’ve been to both places before and there hasn’t been a problem. It would depend on how long the thieves thought they could use the card before getting flagged. The strange thing is that they tried it at two different gas stations and got flagged each time. I’m guessing it’s because they didn’t know my zip code. The last time my CC# was stolen it was flagged at a gas station too, but one in another time zone.

  164. Alverant says

    Thanks Dalillama. This is meant to be a private story (as in no one else will EVER read it unless they hack my computer, it’s in a folder that I’ve instructed in my will to be deleted in the event of my passing) so I’m not too worried about some things. It only has to please and make sens to me. That being said, having a moral philosophy like secular humanism in a society where there are other races other than human sounded elitist to me so I have to think of an alternate name. For me, one of the hardest parts of writing are coming up with names.

  165. Rich Woods says

    @johnlee #130:

    I recently re-read John Wyndham’s “The Chrysalids”, a favourite from my teenage years, and I still found it a really great read. It’s by far his best book, much better than the better known “Day of the Triffids”, and a book with a strong message about how damaging religous fundamentalism is. It was written in 1955, and is still a wonderful piece of Science Fiction.
    What I would like to know is why nobody has made this into a film? If any of you out there are budding directors, eager to get your hands on a good story that says something, look no further. Can you get on with it please?

    That’s one of my favourites too. I think it possibly hasn’t been made into a film because there are elements of it which would be difficult to translate well to film, though perhaps less so now than when Wyndham’s works were more current. That said, the BBC did make a radio play of it two years ago (and not for the first time), which to my mind worked quite well.

    A few people have said that Wyndham fails to present good female characters. That’s true for the most part, but you might also want to read The Trouble With Lichen.

  167. consciousness razor says

    A bit late to the party here…

    varady72, #3:

    I hope this is not a response to me simply talking about some harmonic theory. That would be … well … *looks at lounge rules* … somewhat irksome.

    I have met musicologists who’ve triedto argue that music is for music theorists, that only people with advanced training understand music.

    We understand it at an advanced level. Obviously that’s true, but trivially so. Understanding it, period, while no else understands it at all? That’s just absurd. Why should it be so black and white?

    I’ve also met musicians who were very emphatic in saying that musical background matters and that….“basic aural skills, the ability to read music, and time spent playing in ensembles drastically alters one’s experience of music”

    Drastically?

    Yes, drastically. Yes.

    I just don’t understand where they get these ideas…. First of all,
    the difficulty with music is that it does not essentially exist in an
    intellectual construct.

    Huh?? It’s a perception of sound. Of course it’s an intellectual construct.

    True, music has form and that can be analyzed with logic and music has harmony and that, also, can be analyzed within a logic construct but the intellectual analysis of music is most unimportant when compared to the effect music has on our deep emotions.

    I disagree strongly (and politely!) with this. There are not two things to compare here; whichever one of them that you’re inventing is fictional. Our “emotional” reactions to music are not independent of the actual content of the music itself. No matter how “deep” these emotions may be, if they are effects of the music (not something else), then understanding the music (as well as human psychology) “intellectually” is the only way to do it. It doesn’t mean that you absolutely don’t “get” the music at all if you’re not analyzing it some particular way (and there are in any case many kinds of analysis). And it doesn’t mean you aren’t having actual, valid, real (perhaps extremely emotional and important) experiences of it. You just can’t understand how the music is doing that without understanding how the music itself works (as well as how your own mind works). Perhaps I’m not reading it the right way, but it’s as if you’re telling me I didn’t learn anything useful in my music education. (And how do you suppose you got this knowledge? Well…. don’t ask me.) That is so far from the truth, and frankly it’s very insulting.

  168. Menyambal says

    Tony! You are beautiful.

    I liked what you wrote over on that abortion thread, but just want that thread to end, so saying it here. Thanks! (BTW, I was going to write “fetii” the other day, but didn’t quite have the nerve (nervii?). So yay for that, too.)

    ========

    I went canoeing with my dear one, and we saw a bald eagle. It was flying away, but had to be one, so much excitement. A few minutes later it went right over, so close we could see the hook of the beak and the eye looking at us — about fell out of the boat.

    Much other fauna and fine scenery, lovely sunset and sore muscles. Hope all is well for all.

  169. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    He just sent me his questions.
    They are…a bit obscure. Crap. : /
    I have no idea how to gauge what the right balance is with this.

  171. Esteleth is Groot says

    Lynna, I have a very serious, very important question for you about Mormonism.

    What are funeral potatoes?

    Are they food?

    If so, is this something I should investigate?

  172. The Mellow Monkey says

    Esteleth, if you like foods made from other foods (frozen hashbrowns! canned soup! sometimes potato chip on top!) and fatty, starchy goodness, I’d recommend funeral potatoes.

  173. Esteleth is Groot says

    *eyes narrowed*

    That sounds like something that would have … cheese … in it.

    Does it?!

  174. The Mellow Monkey says

    So much cheese you can feel the cholesterol thunder through your arteries like a tsunami.

  175. Portia (aka Smokey the Advocate) says

    Tried my new soft contacts for the first time after eleven years of hard contacts. I could only get the left one out so I decided to put the right one back in :(
    Damnit. These things are weird.
    Comfortable, but weird.

  176. Esteleth is Groot says

    Hmm.

    I shall have to investigate, but carefully. Cheese baked into things (except pizza or pasta) has a high probability of being an Abomination Unto Nuggan.

  177. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    I’m a food snob. Sort of. It is compensation for a lot of life crap. That aside, I made vichyssoise and ahi tartare for dinner. And tequila on the rocks.

  180. The Mellow Monkey says

    A 90-Second Guide to Determine if Your Internet Cause Is BS

    From Cracked:

    You could probably find an example where a guy did get bullied by a pack of feminists and they burned his copy of GTA V, just like the gun nuts eagerly point to the time the government did take a drunken blind guy’s weapons (and then returned them). The scale model for this is “racism” vs. “prejudice” — the latter is where you find individual cases of white men being harassed or beaten up for being white, the former is a societal problem like 52 percent of crack smokers being white while 79 percent of all sentenced offenders are black. Anyone can prove vaccination is unsafe when they use the one or two times a child was injured when a vaccine aggravates an unknown cell disorder, but that requires ignoring broad trends and statistics saying how rare that is. Anyone can prove there’s no sexism if they ignore all the sexism.

  181. says

    Shadow_Nirvana @159:
    Believe me, I understand where you’re coming from. This is taxing. It hits people in a variety of ways. I’m amazed at the resilience of a great many people.
    I try to look at it this way-all these people fighting and moaning and griping tooth and nail against change? They’re not dominating the discourse. Sure they are out there, but they are facing pushback. A lot of it. I literally just finished a blog post on the subject of diversity; specifically the efforts of people across multiple genres to see more diversity. People are speaking up. They are speaking out. No, it’s not easy. Yes it is taxing. Yes, the hate can often be too much to bear. But you are not alone. N.K. Jemisin is not alone. Janelle Asselin is not alone. Anita Sarkeesian is not alone. Zoe Quinn is not alone.
    The fucking bigots may think they’ve got this in the bag because they’re loud and they can use four color gendered or racial slurs.
    They haven’t won until the last of us stops breathing.

    I guarantee you, it’s going to be a good god damn long time before that happens.

  184. says

    Someday I have *got* to make it out to Morgan’s neck of the woods (currently on the other side of the country; a mere hop, skip, and jump away<—hey where does that phrase come from?) to sample some of her deliciouslyMurcan Kqizeen cooking. I’ve never heard of vichyssoise, but upon looking it up, that sounds 10 different kinds of tasty. And this queer shoop already had dinner.

  185. says

    Why do Westerners always “joke” that the ultimate solution to peace in the Middle East is genocide by bombing the whole place to hell. I’ve seen this many times before and I just saw it again today, and I have to say this kind of mindset is worse than anything ISIS or al-Qaeda ever advocated (and believe me, that’s saying a lot).

  186. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    …is it wrong of me to be annoyed when I keep seeing people who are vocally sexual and have high sex drives, according to their profiles, answer public match questions that are explicitly about whether the answerer personally is interested in sex and feels sexual satisfaction is important to them, in the negative, with explanations to the effect that “I PERSONALLY really like/want/need it, but asexual people are totes cool too?”

  187. Alverant says

    @Brandon #185
    I’d say it’s a combination of multiple factors.
    1) That area has been involved in a lot of wars since the dawn of history and the USA has a comparatively short history
    2) Since it’s so distant it’s easy to forget the people living there are people
    3) Because of the distance and it’s history, it’s tempting to “joke” about starting over again or at least doing something that end the fighting even if it’s a horrible solution.

    That’s my theory anyway. One part ignorance, one part frustration, one part dehumanization = one insensitive “joke”.

  188. says

    Crapspackle*.

    Supposed to be going to visit the Land of the Free Market and Home of the Brave Drone Pilot on Tuesday, just accidentally discovered that my passport expired at end of July.

    Very unlikely we can get it renewed before noon on Tuesday, in time to make my long-booked flight to BWI.

    So much for family time and camping time. :(

    Feckety fuck.

    * The residue after the shit hits the fan.

  191. says

    Whoa. 2 Tony’s. We can’t have that. We’ll need to battle it out. I still have my trusty slingshot. I’ll be using peas covered in SPAM juice.
    Pick your weapon.

    Oh, and welcome to the Lounge Tony Sidaway.

  192. says

    CaitieCat @188:
    Damn. I’m sorry to hear that.
    BTW, why does it take so long to get a passport? I don’t have one (only left the country once-to Canada, and I wasn’t required to have a passport ((this was in the mid00s (((I think)) )

  193. knowknot says

    @191 Tony!
    But he doesn’t have an exclamation point. That’s you. If he tries to take it, I’ll be your second before the gauntlet hits the floor.

  194. rq says

    I see nobody has been doing the paperwork. Again.
    You there, new person! Get off that comfy chair! And you! Come hither!
    *hands out questionnaires and pens*
    You must complete the following questionnaire (take as much time and space as you need).

    Please express an (or several) opinion, a personal one, on the following items:
    1) cheese;
    2) horses;
    3) peas;
    BONUS: Miracle Whip
    This will assist us in placing you in the comfy chair most appropriate for you. Thank you!

    Also, I had other things to say, but in the wake of Middle Child’s “No! I don’t want to go to daycare!”, I have forgotten.
    I did have a dream where Portia and I were fending off mountain lions with rolled up newspapers, double-handedly. They were trying to break into the fortress.

  197. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    And in your daily man-bites-dog news, I have just witnessed Verbose Stoic, with whom some of you are, as I recall, acquainted, complaining about someone allegedly “nitpicking” (and by implication Artificially Stupidly Literally interpreting) his word choice.

  198. rq says

    Tony
    You’ll have to ask my subconscious. All I know is that Portia and I were tramping about a large, mazy stone fortress, folded newspapers in hand, swatting bravely at the giant mountain lions leaping out from doorways. *shrug* You poured the drinks last night, I only brought the apple wine.

  201. rq says

    (The link above contains this gem of a quote:

    “I never in my life made a tax return. I never in my life washed a pair of socks or cleaned a pair of shoes,” said one 67-year-old physics professor in a traditional marriage. When asked if having children is difficult to manage with being a scientist, he responded: “No, absolutely not. That’s why you have a wife.”

    See, that’s why you have a wife. Doesn’t matter what kind, just a wife.)

  202. says

    Good morning

    Well, talked to the mum of one of #1’s classmates. Why is it a relief for the both of us that our kids ruined our collective Saturdays in the exact same way?

    +++
    Portia
    American history:
    What happened on 9-11 1973?
    Bonus points for mentioning the two names mostly associated with this, negative points for mentioning either Bin Laden or Bush
    Yes, I’m evil
    I should print that on a shirt.

    +++
    Shadow Nirvana
    History doesn’t move in a straight line. You’ve always had times of progress and then times of rollback. Just because Napoleon happened after the French Revolution doesn’t mean that republicanism didn’t win out over monarchy eventually.

    +++
    cr
    Why is it so difficult for some to accept that there are layers of understanding?
    I only have a rudimentary knowledge of music, but I can understand (within my cultural habitat of western music!) if something is meant to be happy or sad, soft or energetic. That’s true for other things as well. I might understand Shakespeare better than the average person, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t understand it.

    +++
    Brandon Pilcher
    Because they’re racist assholes who don’t see Arabs as actual people.
    Sad but easy answer to easy questions…

    ++++
    Caitie
    Oh fuck, that sucks big

    +++
    Tony

    BTW, why does it take so long to get a passport?

    Nowadays because they want all your data.
    15 years ago you could show up at the airport, realize that your passport or identity card expired, go to the fotobooth, go to the border police at the airport and get a new one for a hefty idiot’s fee.

    +++
    rq
    My sympathy. Did middle child come around eventually or did he escalate it to a full temper tantrum?

    +++

    And in your daily man-bites-dog news…

    I did that once!
    In my defense:
    1. The dog bit me first
    2. The dog was an asshole
    3. I was 5 years old.
    My mum had left me with friends and his mother had a completely untrained asshole of a dog. When my mother came to pick me up again she ambushed her in the doorway to tell her of the horrible crime I had commited (unlike the dog I had not broken his skin…) It tells you a lot about said mother that she carried a grudge against me for the next fucking 20 years…

    +++
    Recipe time!
    I’d thought I’d share since they’re both relatively cheap and easy and damn delicious.

    Potatoe Spinach Gratin
    Peel potatoes and cut into slices.
    Take a small chorizo salami or any other kind of very savoury salami (Sucuk comes to mind or Debreciner) and cut into small pieces. Put into an oven dish, cover half with milk with salt and nutmeg (the spice, not the Horde member). Put into oven for 30 minutes.
    Lightly fry spinach with onions and garlic, season to taste, add to the top of the potatoes. Add raw eggs on top, bake for another 20 minutes. Add a layer of cheese and turn on the grill if you like.
    PSA: Don’t burn your tongue.

    Schupfnudeln with double Hokaido squash
    Alternatively, use gnocchi.
    Cut squash in half. Dice one half and fry in a pan with garlic, onions, bacon. Cook the other half with a little beef stock until it falls apart, blend with cocnut milk into a creamy sauce and season with curry. When the fried squash is almost tender, add the prepared Schupfnudeln or gnocchi.
    You can serve it with grated parmesan.

  203. rq says

    Giliell
    He came around after Husband had already left, so no daycare, but because the cookies I made last night were for when he comes home from daycare, unfortunately, he will not be having any today. “I will go to daycare tomorrow,” he told me, “and then I will get my cookie.” We did almost leave him at home when taking Eldest to school (it’s 10 minutes of children walking there, 10 minutes back, 10 minutes to take him to his class, so nothing terrible had he stayed), because he refused to get dressed on his own. But, as we say in this family, if you’re old enough to make your own educational decisions, you’re old enough to dress yourself. (Getting dressed, though, is apparently an extremely painful process, that lasts forever, until he does it in about 1 minute because “I want some white bread with butter before we leave!”)

    Annnyway. The recipes sound delicious and easy. Honestly, I’m going to have to get all my courage together and try some pumpkin varieties. I feel like I’m missing out, but at the same time, I’m a bit scared that I won’t like it if I make it, and then who will eat it?

    consciousness razor
    re: varady
    Xe tends to come in at the beginning of every Lounge and post rather nihilistic stuff about the pointlessness of art, music and being alive. I assume it makes xir feel better, but I doubt there’s any direct relation to your musical-analysis post last Lounge.

    In other catch-up news:
    Dalillama
    Congrats on the anniversary, hope the rabbit was delicious!
    (And I had no idea what marionberries were, until I looked them up, and realized those are the blackberry variety we’ve been picking from the (near-)neighbours for the past two years. You have inspired me to collect some next year for wine, I love the berries and the wine sounds like it could be just amazing!)

    Nerd
    *hugs* for the frustrations, also some apple wine, if you would like a glass. It’s not quite grog, I’ll admit. But it’s not bad.

  204. says

    rq
    I found that taking them to daycare in their PJs or undies works wonders. I refuse to let them stay at home even if I technically could because I’m not going down that rabbit hole of having to justify my day to them and discussing why I can’t let them stay (or pick them up early) today. That’s the same reason why they don’t get to sleep in their daddy’s bed just because they want to even though it’s empty

  205. rq says

    Giliell
    Yes, except it’s a matter of getting him screaming to the car. I’d also much prefer that he go, and the trouble with the pyjamas is that he’d probably love going in them, so we have to get him dressed somehow.
    And no, I don’t justify my day, he can entertain himself while I do whatever I need to do. Have to make the grocery rounds? Sorry, buddy, you’re walking, too. All the way.
    (We’re also trying to figure out if he’s having some sort of emotional stress reaction, because so far this year he’s refused to go 3 or 4 times, which is a lot, and with Eldest starting school, I think he’s seen a slight shift in attention, and trying to compensate somehow – and lately he’s been coming home from daycare saying he’s having terrible days. So there’s that, too. Meh. I’m not worried that he’ll become a home child, just as long as he gets into the routine a bit better once school starts for him.)

  207. birgerjohansson says

    Kevin,
    Conga rats!
    — — — — — —
    Nick Gotts,
    Devolution and independence makes sense, the way waterproof bulkheads in a ship makes sense. You don’t want to sink to the bottom of the Marianas Trench because some wankers in Whitehall screwed up.
    Also, see:
    Mafia ‘in awe’ of UK train companies http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/mafia-in-awe-of-uk-train-companies-2014082789914
    —- — —
    ”China Demands that the Dalai Lama Reincarnate” -no, I am not making this up.. http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/09/13/china-demands-that-the-dalai-lama-reinarnate/
    — — —
    Prince George urged to abdicate http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/prince-george-urged-to-abdicate-2014090890342
    BTW if Scotland secedes, maybe they could have Dalai Lama as a head of state? At least he is not a total git, unlike some British people I could mention.
    — — — — —
    Oops. The change of the Swedish government was expected, but the growth of far-right populist SD is worrying. They are like British UKIP or the Tea Party.

  208. carlie says

    Hooray, Kevin!

    Speaking as someone who nearly had a breakdown on my own: the day and the significance are what’s important, not that every little jot and tittle go exactly as envisioned. Enjoy it all. :)

  209. says

    @birgerjohansson:

    Thank you!

    @carlie:

    I’m sure I will. We have some last minute things we should have done way in advance to do (gotta set up the music properly. We’re using Vitamin String Quartet for the prelude. I want people in the audience to be really confused as they wonder whether they are listening to classical music or Green Day.

  210. rq says

    Kevin
    Oooh, that’s exciting! I hope you’re both ready as can be for the big day! And what carlie said, it’s about getting married, not the details. :) Have fun!!

  212. says

    Kevin, congrats on your impending nuptials!

    Giliell, rq, hugs and sympathies on your recalcitrant offspring. I hope you figure out what’s going on with your respective worrisome kids and get them sorted out quickly.

    Last night’s low, according to the backyard thermometer, was 68°. This is no way to run a state.

  213. birgerjohansson says

    “Former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin said she owes America a “global (sic) apology” for the 2008 GOP presidential ticket’s loss to President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.”
    .
    Obviously, Palin has one of those world maps or globes that has only America on it.
    — — — — — — — —
    Krugman: “How to Get It Wrong” http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/15/opinion/paul-krugman-how-to-get-economic-policy-wrong.html?_r=1
    — — — — — — — —
    Ian Paisley, the Dr No of Ulster politics, dies aged 88
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/ian-paisley-dies-aged-88-northern-ireland
    This old wanker opposed a compromise, and helped the “troubles” escalate into a bona fide war just because he wanted a corrupt status quo to continue. Twenty lost years are on his conscience.
    — — — — — — —
    Homing in on LUCA, the ancestor of all life http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2329820.500-meet-your-maker-homing-in-on-the-ancestor-of-all-life.html
    — — — — — —
    ‘Married With Children’ Just Had The Best Family Reunion Ever http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/10/married-with-children-cast-reunion_n_5799186.html?cps=gravity

  215. bassmike says

    Kevin that’s come round very quickly! I hope everything goes well. I’m a similar case to Carlie I had a meltdown the day before my Wedding. I went to bed and refused to get up.

    Sorry I’ve not been posting much recently: I’ve been busy. I hope everyone is well. Tony! any more news on the license for your new job? You must be itching to get started.

  216. Ogvorbis says

    rq @194:

    Please express an (or several) opinion, a personal one, on the following items:
    1) cheese;
    2) horses;
    3) peas;
    BONUS: Miracle Whip
    This will assist us in placing you in the comfy chair most appropriate for you. Thank you!

    I know I am not a newbie, but figure this is one I can answer without, well, anything bad.

    1) Almost all cheese is good. Real cheese. Not American-style cheese food product, not industrial cheddar, but real cheese. Not limburger, though. Can’t go there.

    2) Horses are useful. In the same way that surgery is useful. Or enemas. Or lots of other unpleasant things that are, nevertheless, at least somewhat useful in the right circumstance. Horses are intelligent and yet very dumb at the same time. They are intelligent enough to get bored and look for ways to not be bored, but dumb enough to see hurting another being (usually human) as the way to go.

    3) I like fresh peas, snow peas, sugar snap peas, frozen peas, split pea soup, peas in stew, peas in spaghettini carbonara, peas in pot pie, and even blanched peas in salad. I do not like canned peas or peas in aspic.

    Miracle Whip: Disgusting shit pretending to be mayonnaise. Is not actually mean to be consumed and, even worse, cannot be used as a floor wax.

    —

    Kevin: Wonderful. Contratulations.

    ===================================

    Hi, all. Going to try being active. Not sure how it’ll work.

    I hope I am not making others uncomfortable but I kinda need this place as an outlet. Keeps me grounded in reality. Sort of.

  219. bassmike says

    Ogvorvis great to see you back!

    All the hugs in the world.

    We’ve tried to keep the lounge in order. How do you like the new decor?

  224. says

    Kevin
    Congrats! Like others have said, try not to let the details get to you, and just enjoy the day.

    Ogvorbis

    Horses are intelligent and yet very dumb at the same time.

    I used to work as a stablehand, and you are correct.

    …peas in spaghettini carbonara…

    Oh hell yes.
    And it is nice to have you around.

  226. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    dropping good wishes to all and sundry. Totally threadrupt. I have no idea what anyone has been writing above.

    So I’m just going attune myself to the vibrations of the cosmic magnetic field through my copper bracelet so that I can use my ESP to channel Ramtha. Let the relevance of my words be decided by the reader.

    First: Saying, “No,” to kids apparent doesn’t get any easier when they are in grade school.

    Also, if there are any people getting married in the next 4-5 days, congratulations.

    Any old friends stopping by for new beginnings? Well then remind them that the internet can be a lot like a horse, but really the utility is ultimately worth it.

  227. says

    I’m more than a little annoyed. Over the weekend, a story came out of Los Angeles about Daniele Watts being detained by police who accused her of being a prostitute (some suspect because she was kissing her white boyfriend).
    Raw Story updated their first article on this story with a new one that says they were having sex in the car before the cops arrived.
    There’s a problem with that:

    Over the weekend, the star of Django Unchained posted on her Facebook page that she had been briefly taken into custody by police in Studio City on suspicion of prostitution for “showing affection, fully clothed, in a public place” with her boyfriend, Brian James Lucas.

    According to witnesses, Watts was seen straddling her boyfriend’s lap in the passenger seat of a car with the door open

    That’s the only reference to sex in the article. Since when is straddling a lap the same thing as having sex?!

  232. opposablethumbs says

    Ogvorbis it’s so good to see you again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One has been wondering and asking after you, you know.

    Kevin    , hope the festivities go smoothly and everybody – especially the principal parties involved – has a great time!

  233. The Mellow Monkey says

    Since when is straddling a lap the same thing as having sex?!

    There’s something all these perfectly innocent lap straddling pictures have in common, but I just can’t put my finger on it.

    (Doing a search for pictures of someone sitting in their partner’s lap is an eye-opening experience. The racist divide on people framing them as “sweet” versus “nasty” is astounding.)

  235. says

    I see the mormon dish, funeral potatoes, was fairly thoroughly discussed up-thread. I will just point out that mormons are often expected to bring something like a casserole to other functions as well. Even if it’s not a funeral, funeral potatoes are included.

    In my experience, mormons use ready-made ingredients to cut down the time they spend making their hot dishes. Here’s an example: “Shredded potatoes, mixed with cheese, sour cream, butter, cream of chicken soup and topped with crispy corn flakes. ” That’s one version of funeral potatoes.

    Here’s another description: “Funeral potatoes are cheesy au gratin potatoes that LDS Relief Societies frequently serve as part of a dinner prepared for the grieving family to eat after a loved one’s funeral. The funeral potatoes are generally served with ham, rolls, salad, cake, and of course, Jell-O. I’m not sure how the tradition evolved, but funeral potatoes are definitely comfort food.” Add not just jello, but jello “salad” which is usually green jello with carrots or shrimp in it.

    Ingredients for funeral potatoes:
    32 oz bag of frozen shredded hash browns
    2 (10 3/4 oz) cans cream of chicken soup
    2 cups sour cream
    1 1/2 cup grated cheddar cheese (I like to use sharp cheddar cheese)
    1/2 cup melted butter or margarine
    1/2 c. chopped onion
    2 cups finely crushed corn flakes
    2 Tbs butter or margarine melted

  237. cicely says

    Weekendly ‘Rupt.
    Now re-joining the Thread, already in progress.
    *hug dump with chocolate*
    Welcome-Ins wherever appropriate.
    –
    Ogvorbis!!!
    *gathering up massive hug-dump-with-accumulated-interest from the Thunderdome and re-dumping*
    I’m very happy to “see” you here.
    :) :) :)
    –

  238. says

    Add this to our Republicans-saying-stupid-things file:

    Rep. Trent Franks, appearing on E.W. Jackson’s radio program over the weekend, appeared to cite a report from a conservative website that has been dismissed by federal law enforcement officials about ISIS operating in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, on the border with El Paso.

    “It is true, that we know that ISIS is present in Ciudad Juarez or they were within the last few weeks,” Franks said. “So there’s no question that they have designs on trying to come into Arizona. The comment that I’ve made is that if unaccompanied minors can cross the border then certainly trained terrorists probably can to. It is something that is real.”

    Representative Trent Franks, Republican of Arizona, is a Southern Baptist. Franks is also a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

    The radio show on which Franks was featured is a far-far rightwing petri dish for conspiracy theories. The Department of Homeland Security has heard this latest rightwing blather about ISIS in Mexico, and they tried to squash the rumor: [officials are] “aware of absolutely nothing credible to substantiate this claim.”

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/isis-border?bftw=pol#25gbdkf

  239. The Mellow Monkey says

    5 Lies You Probably Believe About My Life with Schizophrenia

    The “voices” I hear are not too terribly different from the self-critical voices everyone has in their heads — except I can hear them as clearly as if someone were standing right next to me. Oh, and they’re assholes. There are two distinct male voices that I hear (that is, when I’m not on medication, or it decides to randomly stop working for a few days). One tells me to hurt myself or other people, and another calls me the sort of names you generally only hear in the comment section of any internet article about feminism.

    I’m really digging the more socially aware turn Cracked is taking. There are still a couple of loathsome assholes writing there, but there are a lot of gems now as well.

  241. blf says

    Cheese baked into things (except pizza or pasta) has a high probability of being an Abomination Unto Nuggan.

    Simple to fix. Just just the mildly deranged penguin’s Baked Cheese Improver (patent pending): Before baking, remove all non-cheese ingredients. Most can be discarded (that is, fed to the dog) as superfluous, excepting MUSHROOMS!, chilis, vin, and assorted other good things. (You can use them to make various emergency dishes if you run out of cheese.) Dissect with caution if there is any possibility of peas or horse.

    Also turn off, disconnect, and discard the oven or other baking machine. (The dog probably will not eat this. Donate to a good cause, such as the eradication of peas, horses, celery, and squashes.)

    Eat the cheese. Eat some moar cheese. Drink the vin. Finish with cheese.

    Shorter version: Eat the cheese. Eat moar cheese. Basically forget the rest. No need to bake.

  242. says

    While doing some research for a new post, I came across this in-depth essay at Democracy Journal- The Voluntarism Fantasy. I wouldn’t begin to know what part to copy/paste (and many? most? all? the commenters here agree with the notion that private charities cannot replace government assistance). It’s a recent article (spring 2014) that delves into the history of government assistance programs and private charities.

  243. says

    First: Saying, “No,” to kids apparent doesn’t get any easier when they are in grade school.

    I’m personally hoping for grad school.

    +++
    Lyanna
    The point of funeral potatoes seems to be to make the grieving family follow suit due to heart attacks, right?

  244. says

    This is a followup to comment #4. The mormon, Republican dunderhead who thought mandatory sterilization for poor, unemployed women was a good idea, has resigned his seat as Vice Chairman of the Arizona Republican Party. Good.

    Pearce also issued a really bad and clueless not-pology:

    Pearce wrote that during a recent radio show there “was a discussion about the abuses to our welfare system” and he “shared comments written by someone else and failed to attribute them to the author.”

    “This was a mistake,” Pearce stated. “This mistake has been taken by the media and the left and used to hurt our Republican candidates.”

    Disingenuous asshole. What he really intended to say was that all non-mormon, non-white women who receive federal or state assistance of any kind should be sterilized.
    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/2014/09/14/pearce-contraception-remarks-denounced/15645837/

  245. The Mellow Monkey says

    A Video Game Publisher Sent Me Nudes?!?!?!

    Video. Liberal use of NSFW language and a slightly blurred picture of a penis.

    Alice has a channel on YouTube where she discusses games. She contacted a publisher about a game she was interested in and then the man (“Sam”) she interacted with began to get increasingly inappropriate and suggested he could help her gain more viewers in exchange for private correspondence. She made it clear she was only interested in the game. He expressed his disappointment by sending her a picture of an erect penis.

  246. says

    Gilleil @243

    The point of funeral potatoes seems to be to make the grieving family follow suit due to heart attacks, right?

    Maybe they all want to be in the mormon Celestial Kingdom together?

    By buying and using the cheapest ingredients, mormons often serve of a variety of food that all tastes somewhat the same. There’s an undertone of high fructose corm syrup.

    One ex-mormon just posted about her grandmother’s funeral, where ten slightly different versions of funeral potatoes were served. Gack!

  247. says

    Oooh, ya’ll ought to check out Iris Vander Pluym’s post about Tiana Ramos and her Naughty Girls Donut Shop. She includes pictures of some of the donuts, one of which is

    Donut Fried Chicken. Chicken fried in donut batter, with Honey Pecan Glaze. Also available: Sriracha Glazed, Bourbon BBQ Sauce, Orange Chipotle Glaze, Jalapeno Herb Glaze and Traditional Buffalo Sauce.
    (All entrees come with a side of donuts because of course they do.)

  248. blf says

    Ok, whilst a Jalapeño Herb Glaze does sound intriguing, the rest of it — starting with frying a chicken † and descending further into multiple coronaries with donut batter et al — lacks much, well, a lot, in the way of appeal.

    Also, not enough cheese.

     †  Jamaican Jerk Chicken (which is actually more smoked than fried) excepted. With proper Jerk Chicken, the surviving Jalapeño Herb Glaze would be used to “cool down”.

  250. says

    Oh brother. A friend of mine who is a police officer posted the following link on FB: http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/7526490-10-secrets-cops-know-that-most-people-dont/

    1. Most cops understand why tickets are necessary, but don’t particularly like writing them. Well, unless they happen to stop “the guy who pays their wages” and then writing a ticket isn’t so bad.

    2. The vast majority cops have never shot anyone, but most cops can recite a detailed list of people who are/were deserving of being shot because they posed a deadly threat. This means that most cops have successfully defused a potentially deadly confrontation using only words and less-lethal weapons.

    3. Most cops wonder if they have something better to do until the person asks in that whiny voice, “Don’t you have anything better to do?” It is then — and only then — the cop knows the answer to that question is, “No. This is good as it gets.”

    4. Most cops know the driver they just stopped had more that “two beers” and can estimate with reasonable accuracy how many beers a driver did, in fact, have.

    5. Most cops like donuts, but so does everybody. They are deliberately made to taste really, really good so people will want to eat them. Please pass me another donut.

    6. Most cops wonder why so many members of the community choose to pick up a mobile phone and record them while the officers are rolling in the dirt with an assailant rather than offering to help the officer.

    7. Most cops don’t know the color of the people they stop before the traffic stop takes place. This is especially true when those people are driving cars with tinted windows at night.

    8. Most cops know that if you fix that muffler / tail light / other mechanical issue for which they’ve stopped you, the cops will stop stopping you.

    9. Most cops know it is impossible stop a squad car fast enough when the drunk in the back seat says, “Stop! I think I’ve got to puke.”

    10. Most cops know that the national media do not pursue the truth, they pursue a story. Their story and the truth are too often a little like fraternal twins. They are related, but cops can’t explain why they don’t look anything alike.

  251. says

    Pretty ‘rupt, but congratulations to Kevin, and big *hugs* for Oggie

    Horses are intelligent and yet very dumb at the same time.

    Along with oxen, and people who weren’t careful enough with scythes and billhooks, horses were a considerable reason why in the days before mechanized farming, people would go for soldier because it was safer than staying home on the farm.

    O laddie dae ye ken o’ the danger you’re in
    If your horses was tae flegg* and your owsen** tae rin
    This greedy auld farmer widna pay your fee†
    So ‘list, bonnie laddie, and come awa’ wi’ me

    * Take fright/spook
    ** oxen
    † In this context, pay for your medical care/disability pension

  252. The Mellow Monkey says

    Most cops know that if you fix that muffler / tail light / other mechanical issue for which they’ve stopped you, the cops will stop stopping you.

    When I was a small child, my mother was stopped because her tail lights were out. The officers approached the car with rifles in their hands. When my sister (she would have been around thirteen at the time, IIRC) started to walk away from the car one of the officers pointed her rifle at her and demanded she stay put.

    The excuse? The cops thought we were “trying to sneak through town.”

    Why, yes, my mother did rush out and get her tail lights fixed.

  253. blf says

    If there is a heaven, it smells and tastes like Jamaican Jerk sauce. OMnonexistentG, I love that stuff!

    Yes! Now that we’ve got a pretty good (and inexpensive) Mexican restaurant in Teh Village, a Jamaican one would not go amiss either. Or, for that matter, a Thai restaurant (I’ve always thought it a bit odd there isn’t one since Thai cuisine has borrowed from French (and some visa-versa)).

  255. says

    One ex-mormon just posted about her grandmother’s funeral, where ten slightly different versions of funeral potatoes were served.

    There’s a Pratchett book that starts with the witches meeting and realizing that they all brought potatoe salad

  256. cicely says

    *seeing Kevin being multiply congratulated, and scrolling up to see what it’s about*
    Ah! Happy Pre-Matrimony, Kevin!
    It is very important to make sure you know where the flowers are before you leave for the venue.
    </Voice Of Experience>
    –

    What the hell is wrong with this country?

    Anne, if we were to seriously start in on that list, we’d be here the whole damned rest of the year.
    –

  257. says

    cicely @256:

    Anne, if we were to seriously start in on that list, we’d be here the whole damned rest of the year.

    The demands of meatspace aside, many of us are likely to be here off and on through the rest of the year…

  259. David Marjanović says

    Manuscript close to done! To the point that I can send it to my coauthor anyway. :-)

    The Malayan tiger (Panthera tigris jacksoni) is even more endangered than people used to think: numbering some 500 in 2008, it’s down to 340 as of last year. Very short article in German here; cites no sources beyond mentioning the German Press Agency, so I can’t even put this on Wikipedia!

    German article “in cooperation with Spiegel Online”: “Iran sends its most dangerous general” to train Iraqis to fight the IS. Fundie deathmatch! Kassim Soleymani is said to be “courageous and impatient all the way to borderline foolhardiness, ambitious, intelligent and extremely charismatic.” Was flown in by helicopter into the town of Amirli in northern Iraq, which is populated by Shiite “Turkmens” and was encircled and besieged by the IS for two months till, under his leadership, the defenders won and danced in celebration (it’s on YouTube, the article says). Apparently he’s also the reason why the Syrian army has stopped losing and falling apart.

  260. carlie says

    I made a wonderful recipe yesterday. It’s called “queso cookies” from The Homesick Texan.

    Ingredients:
    1 cup shredded sharp cheddar cheese
    1/2 cup (1 stick) butter
    1/2 fresh jalapeno, finely diced
    1/4 tsp cumin
    1/8 tsp cayenne
    1 cup flour

    Mix, make into 1-inch balls, smash flat with spoon, bake at 350 for 20 minutes.

    So good. It’s like crispy spicy cheese straws in patty form. For making again, I’d double the jalapeno and cayenne, and maybe experiment with cutting down the cheese content to bring out the other flavors. The amount of heat with the original is minimal, even if you get one with a lot of jalapeno in it. Just a bit of after-warmth.

  261. Pteryxx says

    here’s Libby Anne drawing a connection between Christian patriarchy and an NFL player’s arrest for “spanking” his child.

    (warning for descriptions of abuse at the link)

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/09/did-adrian-peterson-spank-his-son.html

    WORLD continues to use the word “spank” to describe what Peterson did, and Peterson’s attorney refers to it as “discipline.” Plenty of othernews outlets have also been referring to what occurred as “spanking” and “discipline.” There is a big problem here both with definitions and with sanitation.

    […]

    If you read Peterson’s description of what he did—he claims he continued beating his son for as long as he did because the child didn’t cry (here’s a link, but I’ll warn you that the article contains pictures)—you’ll notice that it fits with what Michael and Debi Pearl teach in their book, To Train Up a Child. I suspect that the Pearls’ teaching that you have to hit the child until they are submissive to your authority is probably more common than we would like to think.

  262. says

    Another rightwing official makes stupid statements about Muslims crossing the southern border of the USA:

    I’m saying the border is wide open,” [Midland County, Texas Sheriff Gary Painter] replied. “We have found copies, or people along the border, have found Muslim clothing, they have found Quran books that are laying on the side of the trail. So we know that there are Muslims that have come across, have been smuggled in the United States.”

    Some facts:
    – the border is not wide open
    – a so-called “prayer rug” turned out to be a soccer shirt.
    – there is no other evidence of Muslim infiltration into Texas and other states near the southern border
    – Muslims are not known for tossing Qurans aside

    “If they show their ugly head in our area, we’ll send them to hell,” Painter said. “I think the United States needs to get busy and they need to bomb them. They need to take them out. I would like for them to hit them so hard and so often that every time they hear a propeller on a plane or a jet aircraft engine that they urinate down both legs.”

    Law enforcement in Midland County, Texas seems to be a little off-balance (understatement). The Sheriff spouted that crap on Fox News, with host Elisabeth Hasselbeck soaking it all up.

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/tx-sheriff-warns-fox-of-isis-threat-quran-books-found-along-mexican-border/

  263. says

    Local police forces in the USA are not the only groups receiving military equipment from the Pentagon. Some school districts also get the military gear.

    More than 20 school districts in the United States have been equipped with military-grade equipment through the federal program that provides such gear to local and state authorities free of charge, according to civil rights groups. […]

    KPBS in Sand Diego reported that the city’s school district had received a mine-resistant vehicle. KTLA in Los Angeles reported that the district there had also received its own mine-resistant vehicle as well as grenade launchers. KHOU in Houston reported that local school districts had received military firearms.

    A school district in Edinburg, Texas, has employed a full SWAT unit, according to the letter, which is equipped through the 1033 program. […]

    “It is frankly difficult to imagine how a grenade launcher, or any of these items, could be safely used in any scenario involving schools,” the letter [from civil rights groups] said.

    School districts in Texas, California, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Michigan, Nevada and Utah have received military equipment, according to the groups. […]

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/school-districts-1033-program-military-equipment

  264. says

    Republican Senators have demonstrated once again what they really think about fair pay for women:

    Senate Republicans filibustered legislation on Monday aimed at helping women fight for equal pay in the workplace[…]

    [An earlier] vote was 52 for, 40 against, falling short of the 60 needed to defeat a filibuster. […]

    The Paycheck Fairness Act was introduced by Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), and would prohibit employers from retaliating against employees who talk to coworkers about their salaries. It would also require more data collection of employee salaries from businesses.

    Democrats widely expected the bill to fail because Senate Republicans have previously blocked the same legislation before in 2012 and earlier in 2014.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/senate-republicans-filibuster-equal-pay-for-women

  266. says

    Yeah, this is going to work really well. (/sarcasm) Linda Harvey thinks that Christian anti-gay activists should go to “places that are homosexual” and tell them they are not gay.

    Linda Harvey of Mission America […] said anti-gay activists should […] go to pride parades and “places that are homosexual” like San Francisco, Provincetown and Key West.

    Miller, however, cautioned that “a lot of the homosexual radicals are radical and they’re violent and vicious,” adding: “These people are vicious and we’re not. That’s the thing. We’re not vicious but we know the truth and the truth is on our side.” […]

    […] they are not born that way so the issue is we need to be educating and counseling and coming along these kids and saying ‘you don’t need to be in this lifestyle’ […]

    Right Wing Watch link.

  267. says

    Another rightwing Arizona sheriff says stupid stuff:

    Arizona sheriff and right-wing political activist Richard Mack said last month that he had “no doubt” the Obama administration might stage a “false flag” attack on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in an effort to “get us more under their control.”

    In an interview with the Liberty Brothers radio show, Mack responded to a question about a potential false flag attack by saying, “I think that that has already happened a time or two” in the U.S.

    He then went on to explain that “corrupt regimes” like Hitler’s have staged such attacks “and right now, I will say we have the most corrupt regime in American history.”

    Mack added that the health care crisis addressed by the Affordable Care Act was, in fact, a “problem that didn’t exist” and a false flag allowing the president to “destroy liberty.”

    “So they are willing to blatantly destroy liberty, blatantly destroy our Constitution, and so then we’re supposed to wonder if they would do a false flag attack to get us further, more under their control? No, I do not doubt that they would do such a thing,” he concluded.

    Right Wing Watch link.

    Richard Mack is a member of the NRA’s Hall of Fame and mormon. He’s a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and he attended Brigham Young University. The dunderhead is also a member of Oath Keepers.

  269. says

    I just checked out the FTB Shop page, and I’m surprised there are only four items (all books) on there. With as many bloggers as FTB has, I’d have thought more product would be available.

  270. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    Quiet night. End of summer, still too hot to sleep, bugs flitting about but not too many. Quiet night sounds. Peace.

  271. cicely says

    DDMFM:

    Manuscript close to done! To the point that I can send it to my coauthor anyway. :-)

    Huzzah!
    (and *pouncehug*)
    –

  276. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Oh.

    Oh.

    My.

    Fictitious.

    God.

    ….this recipe is a keeper. Now why didn’t I write my tweaks down?

    (Things I know I did: substituted the turkey with…like…3/4lb? shitake mushrooms, food processored. About doubled the onions (two large for a triple batch.). Added about 1.5 tsp vanilla extract and a little extra cinnamon and sugar to the sauce, and didn’t bother peeling the walnuts, just boil-blanched them a couple times. Used like one cup super-oven-roasted Japanese Trifle tomatoes and a 28oz can of crushed tomatoes, and a little leftover thing of marinara sauce, instead of the tomatoes as specified. Added nutmeg to the sauce. Cooked the ground mushrooms with like a teaspoon of herbes de provence (the dish was invented in Pueblo, where the Mexicans famously held off the French; consider it spoils of war). Added about 2/3 cup tawny port and most of 1 cup of brandy per batch, for deglazing and liquid-adding, for instance in food processoring the damn apples. Was there something else? Used sorta past-their-prime chilis, and overcooked them a bit. Skipped the butter. Used olive oil instead of vegetable. I kinda wish I’d added some grated carrot now, actually…)

    I would seriously consider turning down otherwise-welcome sex for a serving of this..

  278. toska says

    rq, RE: your link about genderized biological differences (or lack thereof)
    I’ve always been a bit skeptical about a biological basis for personality traits based on gender, even before I was the least bit socially aware. Even though my experience is completely anecdotal, I’ve always noticed how similar my personality is to my father’s, while I seem to have inherited very few personality traits from my mother (despite being much closer to her). OTOH, I have a brother who is so much more similar to my mother. It doesn’t quite follow with the ladybrain-manbrain narrative. I can accept that there may be a mix of nature/nurture in there, but I still think biological cognitive differences are vastly overstated and probably insignificant.

  280. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    …used Fuji apples that are also a bit past their prime (still freshlike inside, but with the skins getting shriveled), substituted white pepper for black…

    My pomegranates weren’t ripe, though. :( Actually, the unbalanced sourness isn’t so bad in THIS recipe but… *eyes the mummy-peeled ones from last year in the refrigerator drawer thoughtfully*

  281. rq says

    toska
    I would agree. When I was a child, I did not automatically engage in doll-playing: I ran around half-naked in the woods with all the children (two houses, seven children, boys and girls half-naked in summer), and was shocked (truly shocked) when I was about 7 or 8, and my mum told me I would have to start wearing a shirt in the summer, because girls don’t really do that. It was one of the most unfair things I’d heard at that point in my life, because boys could still run around without shirts, and it was bloody hot outside.
    So yes, I’m still incredibly skeptical about truly biological wiring differences in brains, because otherwise I’m sure I would have realized that girls, so fashion-conscious all the time, always wear shirts.
    Or something.
    Anyway, I agree with you!

  282. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    …and like a quarter cup of leftover parmesan-and-panko-crumbs my girlfriend’s family sent home with me. Wonder how to recreate that; looked like it had a little bit of herbs in it….

    …I’ve created the food equivalent of a Doxy massager here. I hope everyone’s taking notes. O.O

  283. rq says

    Azkyroth
    I certainly am, especially since the walnut is intent on providing us with an uber-harvest this autumn.

  284. bassmike says

    Hi all!

    I have to admit to being a little surprised and slightly disappointed that no-one appears to read Greg Egan books. They’re very sciency SF and I feel that his treatment of gender and sexuality is very even handed. I’d love to hear someone else’s view. Ah well.

    I don’t know whether the following should be posted here or Thunderdome, so if people feel I should move it elsewhere I will do it:

    At work we were discussing the recent iCloud issue with regard to celebrity private photos and someone suggested that the celebrities were naive in having such photos in the cloud. I said that the point wasn’t that, but that someone invaded their privacy to get the photos and that was the problem. To me it was like someone breaking into their house and stealing stuff off their PC.

    I had to concede that I wouldn’t put photos like that in the cloud (I don’t have any anyway…honest!), but saying that the celebrities shouldn’t have put them out there was muddying the waters. Isn’t this some victim blaming and similar to the ‘she shouldn’t have been in that area of town at that time of night’ comment?

    Do people think I was right? If so do you have any advice as to how I could have handled it better?

  285. rq says

    bassmike
    I think you’re absolutely right. I’m not sure how you could have handled that better, but yes, your colleagues were essentially victim-blaming. I had some nice articles on that, I’ll see if I can find a link or two!

  288. blf says

    The Kochroach brothers strike again, Texas proposes rewriting school text books to deny manmade climate change:

    Analysis of proposed 6th grade texts show they falsely claim scientific disagreement about global warming

    Texas has proposed re-writing school text books to incorporate passages denying the existence of climate change and promoting the discredited views of an ultra-conservative think tank.

    The proposed text books — which come up for public hearing at the Texas state board of education on Tuesday — were already attracting criticism when it emerged that the science section had been altered to reflect the doctrine of the Heartland Institute, which has been funded by the Koch oil billionaires.

    A report from the Texas Freedom Network and the National Centre for Science Education on Monday found a number of instances where the proposed texts rejected recognised science.

    In the proposed 6th grade texts, students were introduced to global warming amid false claims that there was scientific disagreement about its causes.

    “Scientists agree that Earth’s climate is changing. They do not agree on what is causing the change,” the passage reads.

    It quotes two staffers at the Heartland Institute who are not scientists.

    …

    Kathy Miller, the president of the Texas Freedom Network, suggested that the proposed text books had been deliberately aligned with the political ideology of the rightwing Tea Party. A majority of Republicans in Congress deny the existence of global warming or oppose action on climate change.

    …

    The reviewers said the proposed 6th and 8th grade texts also contained false statements on the causes for the thinning of the ozone layer.

  289. blf says

    Anyone else getting weird new ads popping up from the side? Specifically, Verizon?

    What’s a “Verizon”? Sounds like a particular disgusting brand of British Industrial Cheddar (probably mixed with mushy peas and delivered by horse).

  290. blf says

    Most of the comments in this very new thread at Ed’s blog are also complaining about a “Verizon” pop-up(? auto-play?) ad. Including a suggestion to report it to the Tech Issues at the top of (every?) FtB page.

  295. rq says

    Apparently I can’t comment anywhere on FtB from work anymore, probably due to the new changes that also include links in copy-paste, and that stupid verizon pop-up.

  297. cicely says

    rq:

    Anyone else getting weird new ads popping up from the side? Specifically, Verizon?

    The ones I’m getting are consistently for Fire Mountain Gems—a place I go to for the purpose of drooling at the pretty-shinies, and have been to recently.
    Maybe Verizon is the paid default, for viewers that haven’t provided the adspammer with a “better” paid sponsor?
    –
    bassmike:

    At work we were discussing the recent iCloud issue with regard to celebrity private photos and someone suggested that the celebrities were naive in having such photos in the cloud. I said that the point wasn’t that, but that someone invaded their privacy to get the photos and that was the problem. To me it was like someone breaking into their house and stealing stuff off their PC.

    Oh, yes indeed! In fact—because these are celebrities, which means that, as everybody knows, their personal matters are Paparazzi Payday, you could easily just say

    At work we were discussing the recent housebreaking issue with regard to celebrity private photos and someone suggested that the celebrities were naive in having such photos in their houses. I said that the point wasn’t that, but that someone invaded their privacy to get the photos and that was the problem. To me it was like someone breaking into their house and stealing stuff from anywhere inside their house…or car…or office…or wallets…..

    What it comes down to is a conviction that celebrities are Public Property…especially female celebrities.
    And so, if somebody steals “my” personal private photos and spams the Web with ’em, it’s an outrage…but a celebrity just should have expected it.
    –

  298. annie55 says

    Sigh…so grateful for the lounge.

    The latest shitstorm is just so depressing. And frustrating. Sam Harris appears to be claiming that atheist discourse is too confrontational for most women, which has been seriously and wittily debunked by the gals and guys here.

    But what Harris misses is the easily found comments of MEN in various forums who write blurbs to the effect of “I toyed with getting involved with the atheist movement, but the more I investigated, the less interested I was in participating.”

    Estrogen vibe? Please. Some PEOPLE simply prefer a quieter form of discourse. ‘Taint gender specific by a long shot.

  299. rq says

    annie55
    Nonsense. The men refusing to spar verbally, like Real Men are wont to do, are simply experiencing an influx of Estrogen Vibe somewhere in their lives. If they were True Men, they’d be aggressively active, and perfectly willing to engage in the loud, rough-and-tumble, derisive discourse that is the Atheist Movement!

    Ugh, do you know how much that hurts, typing that out?
    Anyway, yes, the latest round of mansplaining about why women just don’t like getting involved doesn’t even get popcorn. I hate hate hate that the conversation needs to be had again. Hate. But in a nurturing way. :P

  301. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Oh, that reminds me *scrolls up*

    Big Honkin’ Vibrator of Doom (it looks something like the one on this site, only larger, heavier, and believe me, in no way something you likely want near any sensitive bits

    …. *eyebrow*

  302. says

    rq, yes, what you said, but you said it better. :)

    Also, the men who don’t enjoy the rough and tumble of verbal jousts are probably just wimps who fell under the dreadful influence of teh E-vile Femi-Nasties, or some such. (yes, that’s snark)

  304. says

    See, that’s gotta be the leftovers of the ‘boybrain’ I was theoretically given, Anne, I couldn’t get to the same level of nurturing you did.

    I need to up my hormone patches, obviously. Naturally, that will mean I have even less taste for confrontation, alas.

  308. rq says

    *throws a fluffy pink electrically-heated blanket of massive, awesome doom, with extra vibrating feature over AllTheMenzWithNoEstrogenVibe*
    Feel the wrath! FEEL THE NURTURING WRATH!!!

    …
    Crossed some wires, I did. Oops.

  309. rq says

    CaitieCat
    You’ll have to work on that Estrogen Vibe. Not seeing enough fancy shoes from you. However will we wimminz ever get our low-key, irrational, nurturing gossip on??

  310. annie55 says

    Exactly. There is no getting away from the implication that men who don’t enjoy the confrontation as it descends into …”you are just a stupid poopy-head” (a depressingly frequent occurrence) are not REAL men.

    And just out of curiosity, why does Harris imply that the discussion AMONG atheists is by default “confrontational?”

  311. blf says

    There is no getting away from the implication that men who don’t enjoy the confrontation as it descends into …”you are just a stupid poopy-headnot afraid of the cooties” (a depressingly frequent occurrence) are not REAL men.

    Suggested fix.

  312. blf says

    This is very possibly a must-see, Aga Khan Museum: North America finally gets a home for Islamic art:

    A billionaire playboy and two of the world’s most celebrated architects have created a cosmic space for a spectacular hoard of Islamic art — in deepest suburban Toronto

    There were lustrous ceramics, shimmering skeins of silk, finely carved ivory, illuminated texts and all the latest medical instruments. Lavishly paraded through the streets of 10th-century Cairo, the Fatimid caliphs used the public display of royal bounty to help cement their new capital as the most important cultural centre of the Islamic world. Masters of stagecraft and the symbolic power of art, they developed a culture of exhibiting private treasures in public long before museums began in the west. Now, 1,000 years later, one of their descendants is continuing the tradition — in a business park on the edge of Toronto.

    The collection doesn’t come close to the vast Islamic holdings of the British Museum or the V&A, nor the Louvre or the Metropolitan Museum of Art, But as museum director, Henry Kim, fresh from leading the transformation of Oxford’s Ashmolean Museum, puts it: “It is a connoisseur’s collection. There may not be many pieces, but they are some of the best.”

    They range from the earliest surviving manuscript of Avicenna’s Canon of Medicine, the text that kept ancient Greek thought alive while the west plunged into the dark ages, to a 14th-century Andalusian astrolabe, inscribed in Arabic, Latin and Hebrew, along with exquisite 16th-century paintings from the Persian Book of Kings. There are textiles and miniatures, tiles and musical instruments, and moralistic Iranian pottery from the 10th-century, including a plate with calligraphic script that reads: “Beware of the imbecile: do not socialise with him.” …

    I’ve seen the collections at the British Museum, Louvre, V&A, and MMA (albeit I understand the MMA’s gallery has since been improved), and they are stunning. So another collection favorably compared with them is very possibly worth a visit.

  313. annie55 says

    I like that better, BLF.

    Because my gradual atheist emergence on-line has been influenced by the kind reasoning and gentle questions in discussions with others, it is finally okay to admit that …”No, I am not a big, brave, bad-ass atheist.”

    I am closeted in my family, and friends who know don’t consider it any of their business, do not worry about it, or respect my desire for discretion.

  314. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    From Ed:

    “If you want to have reasons not to do it,” Fischer concluded, “getting knocked out in a casino elevator, that’s the only reason that you need

    Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/09/16/fischer-blames-ray-rice-beating-on-premarital-cohabitation/#ixzz3DVckvaba

    Bryan Fischer gives women the only reason they need to obey his god inspired commandments:

    Otherwise, we’ll beat the shit out of you.

    Boy, someone might mistake him for a misogynist, if we didn’t know God was all-loving.

  315. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    Close encounters of the ursine kind!

    Around 2:00am this morning I was lying awake as is my usual custom and heard a minor ruckus of some sort just outside the living room. The dogs were on high alert. The husband was sleeping the sleep of the blissful dead.
    I heard another sound, louder, like something breaking. Thought I to myself, “Self, methinks we have a bear.” I decided opening the drapes might not be the best idea. Coming nose to nose with charismatic mega fauna can be injurious to one’s well being.

    I waited and listened. No more sounds. I quieted the dogs. I went back to bed. This morning when I got up I found that said charismatic mega fauna and broken down half the front fence in order to get to the tiny recirculating fountain by my front door. Evidently it wanted a drink. In repayment for my generosity with our very scarce water, it left a BIG pile of bear poop next to the fountain.

    I now have empirical evidence that bears really do what bears are reported to do in the forest. I inspected the fecal matter and determined that my ursine visitor is eating well. No fur bits or bones, just acorn shells and such like. And much to my amazement the poop had no odor. Amazing.

    But did it really have to break down the fence? Sheesh, no manners. It could have just walked through the open gate.

    This was my very first bear encounter since moving up to the mountains. Hooray.

  316. rq says

    Morgan
    Your gate was simply in the wrong spot. You should re-think its location. :P (Glad everything ended with no injuries for anyone involved, not even a major fright!)

  317. Pteryxx says

    hey Crip Dyke, I’ve seen you post a few quotes with the “Read more” autospam in them; are you happy with the ability to do that? I sent a note to FTB tech issues asking it to be removed, but maybe it could be made optional?

  318. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    rq

    Yes, moving the gate is imperative, I believe. Gotta keep the beasties happy. And I was not at all frightened. I’m something of a student of the noble bear and have great respect for them. Actually, I was a bit giddy. I’ve been longing to see a bear up here. Although I didn’t see it, I experienced it, and that makes me happy.

  319. says

    Republicans in US House of Congress have another way to keep women mostly down, and mostly out of the legislative process:

    […] When Republican-led House committees can choose anyone they wish to offer congressional testimony, men are now outnumbering women by more than a three-to-one margin.

    Perhaps if there were more women lawmakers in charge of committees, we’d see greater balance, but this has been a problem, too. Let’s not forget that after the 2012 elections, House Republican leaders appointed 19 committee chairs for the new Congress, only to discover they’d chosen 19 white men. The party scrambled and found a woman to chair the Rules Committee — despite the fact that she wasn’t actually on the Rules Committee at the time. […]

    I knew about the problem with committee chairs, but I did not know they were busy getting an all-male perspective by choosing men to offer congressional testimony.

    David Wasserman points out that “89 percent of House Republicans are white men, compared to just 47 percent of House Democrats. For some context, according to 2013 Census estimates just 31 percent of U.S. residents are non-Hispanic white males.”

    “Even in the last two years, the demographic chasm between the parties has widened. Eight members of the 113th House of Representatives have been elected in special elections since 2012. All six Republican winners have been white men, five of whom prevailed over women in their primaries. Both Democratic winners have been women who prevailed over men in their primaries.”

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/house-gop-remains-committed-few-good-men

    http://politicalwire.com/archives/2014/09/15/diversity_gap_in_the_house_widens.html

  320. says

    Religious extremists are gearing up for the start of a new school year in Mosul. ISIS is running schools in Mosul:

    The extremist-held Iraqi city of Mosul is set to usher in a new school year. But unlike years past, there will be no art or music. Classes about history, literature and Christianity have been “permanently annulled.”

    The Islamic State group has declared patriotic songs blasphemous and ordered that certain pictures be torn out of textbooks.

    The ISIS/ISIL extremists have also banned the teaching of “Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution.” They are, however, going to teach “religious sciences.”
    Associated Press link.

  321. rq says

    An entertainment headline in local news: Top 7 celebrities who beat their wives or lovers. *facepalm-headdesk*
    (No, I am not clicking.)

  322. says

    Oh, FFS, some conservative judges are using the Hobby Lobby decision to let Fundamentalist Latter-day Saints (a mormon group that still practices polygamy) off the hook when it comes to testifying in court:

    The U.S. Department of Labor had some more questions for Vergel Steed.

    Specifically, the department wanted Steed to answer some questions about the workings of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

    But a judge last week said Steed doesn’t have to answer. […] Judge David Sam cited the recent U.S. Supreme Court decision in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby Stores, Inc. in saying Steed had a First Amendment right not to testify.

    The subpoena sent to Steed stems from the U.S. Department of Labor investigation into the 2012 nut harvest at a pecan ranch near Hurricane […] [Hurricane is a community in Utah that’s not far from St. George.]

    […] the Labor Department has evidence much of the work was done by children as well as adults who were not paid for their work. The Labor Department has been deposing FLDS members […]

    A federal magistrate later filed an order compelling Steed to answer [questions]. […]

    “Petitioner has failed to show that forcing Mr. Steed to answer the questions offensive to his sincerely held religious beliefs is the least restrictive means to advance any compelling interest it may have. […]

    The Labor Department has asked about the FLDS Church because it believes children and other unpaid workers were ordered to help harvest nuts by Lyle Jeffs. The Labor Department has a voicemail recording it believes to be from Lyle Jeffs telling the FLDS’s private school to close and instructing people on when to be at the Southern Utah Pecan Ranch. […]

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/58420263-185/steed-labor-department-flds.html.csp

    There’s that phrase again, “sincerely held religious beliefs.”

    This counts as Moments of Mormon Madness on several levels, not just the FLDS level. Judge David Sam is a mormon, a guy who is a Brigham Young University alumni member.

  324. Pteryxx says

    did folks watch that dissection of the colossal squid? (The Verge)

    In her last discussion tankside, Kat reveals that our new colossal squid is female & has eggs in its mantle! #squidwatch #sciencelivetepapa
    — Te Papa (@Te_Papa) September 16, 2014

    The dissection was live streamed as it occurred, and the resulting recording is now available it its full three-and-a-half-hour long gory glory (the actual stream begins at 06:57 into the video).

  325. Pteryxx says

    more to the point, Sarkeesian:

    Anyone looking to support women suffering from harassment online has a surprisingly simple place to start, says Anita Sarkeesian, founder of the web video series Feminist Frequency. “One of the most radical things you can do is to actually believe women when they talk about their experiences,” Sarkeesian told the audience today at XOXO Festival in Portland.

    in huge letters:

    “Actually believe women when they talk about their experiences.”

  326. says

    Despite my ‘ruptness, I want to offer a congrats to Kevin on impending nuptials and gladness to see Ogvorbis again in the Lounge. I thin I may have a hug or two in my bag somewhere if anyone needs one.

    Portia and the trivia questions: sounds like your compatriot may have crossed the line between trivia and history/geography?

    blf about Verizon: In the dimmest darkest past, there was the beast AT&T which provided all telephone service in the USofA. Fortunately, the US gubmint told the AT&T Monster that it couldn’t do that (1974 Antitrust Lawsuit), so 7 regional Baby Bells were spun back out (in 1984). Bell Atlantic included the mid-Atlantic states. Thanks to the Telecommunications Act in 1996, Bell Atlantic merged with NYNEX in 1997, then in 2000, merged again with GTE and became Verizon. Which now provides all telephone service in the USofA.* And half the cable, which now has them poised to screw over everyone by breaking Net Neutrality, due to them once again breaking Antitrust law, though no one will call them on it because they are too damn big and pay off all the politicians. Not that I’m cranky about it or anything.*

    *Not intended to be a true statement.

  327. Pteryxx says

    More coverage of Sarkeesian’s talk at XOXO, with tweets from the audience in attendance: Buzzfeed

    “We are blamed for the abuse we receive and regularly told that we are either asking for it or inventing it entirely,” Sarkeesian added.
    Sarkeesian says her perpetrators “do not see themselves as perpetrators at all” but rather as “noble warriors”.

    […]

    If you’ve got the stomach to read what these noblemen have to say about Sarkeesian, their response to her talk on Reddit is a perfect example.
    But the audience at XOXO Festival were nothing but supportive and celebratory of Sarkeesian and her request to simply “listen and believe” women like her.

    She received a standing ovation.

    Phil Nelson @philnelson

    Every single person at #xoxofest just stood up to cheer @femfreq. So proud to be here. Thank you, Anita.

  329. The Mellow Monkey says

    5 Things I Learned as the Internet’s Most Hated Person

    Cracked article. By Zoe Quinn.

    Editor’s Note: A few weeks ago our message board and general inbox were bombarded with demands we address something called the “GamerGate Scandal”, posts written with the urgency and rage one would associate with, say, discovering that Chipotle burritos are made entirely from the meat of human babies. It’s apparently a big deal in some circles, so we followed the links and read the piles of data presented, and had to stop and take a deep breath just to grasp it all. “Gentlemen,” we said amid the stunned silence, “do you realize that if what they’re saying is true, then this is still the most pointless fucking bullshit anyone has ever forced us to read?”

    The “scandal” turned out to be an excuse for an Internet harassment campaign against a random indie game developer who, like many such targets, was a female and a feminist.

    It was all sparked by a single forum post from a jilted ex-boyfriend, but the ensuing outrage was so fierce and relentless that the story made it all the way to The New Yorker. This kind of spontaneous shitstorm is depressingly common these days, so we reached out to Zoe Quinn to see what it’s like to be the Internet’s Most Hated Person (well, for a couple of weeks, anyway). Here’s what she told us…

  331. says

    rq @279:
    Re-new ads–
    Ed Brayton has a post up about the new ads on FtB. I’d link to it, but every time I visit Ed’s blog my computer goes wonky. It locks up and displays “Shockwave Flash Player has stopped working”. Then I have to reboot the computer. It doesn’t do this on any other blog. It’s quite annoying bc I subscribe to Ed’s posts and read them on my phone and I’d like to comment on his blog, but my computer doesn’t let me.
    #first world problems

  333. says

    Yay, Tonyjob! W00t!

    TMM, I’m glad to see Cracked being more socially conscious too. Now if they can recognise the vile irony that their comments section is the same kind of cesspit they’re posting against. What’s the point of saying ‘harassing Zoe Quinn is wrong’ on a post full of comments doing exactly that? Yeesh.

    That said, Ms. Quinn’s pretty impressive.

  334. Pteryxx says

    re Tony #331 (and congratz!)

    Ed’s post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2014/09/16/a-note-about-the-ads/

    Tony! – if you’re using Noscript on your computer, try blocking something called lls.org (that’s two small L’s as far as I can determine – this in the quotes is copy-pasted) “”lls.org””

    I’m not sure if that’s causing the problem, but it’s the only script that’s running on Ed’s blog but not here on Pharyngula.

  338. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    Tony!
    I’ll take a Herradura on ice, with a slice of lime. (No wedges, no salt). In honor of your imminent employment I’ve made some kick-ass guacamole with tortilla chips, for munching with my tequila.

    Congrats. I hope it all goes well.

  339. says

    Morgan @338:
    Herradura is a good one. In fact, I asked if we were going to carry it today (the liquor was ordered but won’t be in until tomorrow). The manager said he wasn’t sure.
    Do you prefer Reposado, Anejo, or Blanco?

    ****
    ajb47 @336:
    Classic Jim Beam, JB Black, JB Red Stag, JB Kentucky Fire, JB Maple, JB Honey, JB Signature Craft, JB Jacob’s Ghost, JB Devil’s Cut, or JB Single Barrel?
    No, I didn’t realize Jim Beam made that many variations. I thought it was only the first three.

  342. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    Tony!

    With the LA Times site you can get plenty of info without subscribing. Subscribing gives much more info, but it ain’t cheap. I subscribe. If you need me to get any articles for you, I can.

  343. says

    Tony

    Classic, please. Though Devil’s Cut makes a good Manhattan. I was not overly impressed with Signature Craft. I do want to try Red Stag, but not in a Manhattan my first time. The only one in that list I didn’t know about was the Kentucky Fire, though I have to say that Jack Daniel’s’ Tennessee Fire is delicious — tastes just like Red Hots (the candy). If you like cinnamon.

  344. cicely says

    Does anybody have any useful advice on gently steering a newborn to sleeping through the night—rather than in the daytime? Grandson is apparently a night-owl by nature, but his parents are gonna have to get some sleep sometime.
    –
    Morgan!?:

    I now have empirical evidence that bears really do what bears are reported to do in the forest.

    Hmmm…
    “I now have empirical evidence that bears really doo-doo what bears are reported to do in the forest”?
    “I now have empirical evidence that bears really do what bears are reported to doo-doo in the forest”?
    –
    Tony!:

    We open Thursday.

    *vigorous applause, brief-but-intense fireworks display, and showers of rose petals*
    Hurray for enjobbedness!
    –

  346. Pteryxx says

    …and here’s a sampling of how epic it is, because this is how it reads with the alt-text for images.

    Limber your shouting voices, folks, it’s about to get far worse.

    “I’ve just heard that he misbehaved himself with the women, which I guess is what men do when they are drunk.”

    Image on top is a My Little Pony looking upward in shock. Caption says, “WTF is that?” Bottom image shows her looking in a different direction, seeming angry. Caption says, “Srsly, WTF is that?”

    “I’ve just heard that he misbehaved himself with the women, which I guess is what men do when they are drunk.”

    Image shows Puss in-Boots from Shrek holding something in his paw, with his mouth open in an angry O. Caption says, “You see this? You see this shit!”

    “I’ve just heard that he misbehaved himself with the women, which I guess is what men do when they are drunk.”

    Image shows an anime woman with pink hair screaming so hard she’s spitting and her eyes look like they’re exploding. Caption says, “What is this I don’t even”

    “I’ve just heard that he misbehaved himself with the women, which I guess is what men do when they are drunk.”

    Image is an angry troll face with red eyes. Background has the letters FFFFFUUUU repeated in red.

    Alt-text is a beautiful thing. ♥

  347. says

    Also, Tony, don’t forget the bitters. (Wait, is that the “Perfect Manhattan”? With the bitters, I mean.) I usually only get the bitters when I make my own — in the bar I built (with help) in my basement. That’s right, I built a bar in my basement. Complete with a dart board.

    Oh, I just remembered something I noticed earlier — I don’t think I’ve ever filled out my paperwork!

    1) Cheese — love it, except for the stinkier varieties, including the blues.
    2) Horses — like them, but I don’t spend time near them. I have read a lot of Sword and Sorcery novels and played a lot of D&D, so my liking may be more in the abstract.
    3) Peas — should die in a fire. Though I used to think that about brussels sprouts and then I had some cooked the way they should be cooked and now I like roasted brussels sprouts, so who knows what will happen if I ever get fresh peas cooked properly. (Although wasabi peas are not terrible because there is no pea taste.)
    Extra) Miracle Whip — No. Just no.

  348. rq says

    cicely
    For a new newborn? Not a chance – they can hope to begin a sort of night-time routine around 2 months, maybe (is it that long already?).
    What semi-worked for us (because babeez is still babeez) is have a set, unchangeable routine for the evening and the morning. Morning for us was around 7 – 8, remove selves (usually including baby) from bed, change baby’s diaper, change baby’s clothes, enter other rooms of the house, turn lights on, etc. Evening for us was around 9 – 10, depending on baby’s last feed, and was eating, change of diaper, change of clothes (into something more PJ-like – some parents swear by evening baths, but (a) too many baths is bad for skin microflora and (b) ours just got all excited (and mad when removed from bath)), possible second feeding (or the last feeding), followed by insistence on sleeping. If Baby is the type to sleep while feeding, then I recommend doing the feeding only after the rest of the process is complete (no matter how hard he cries, it’s only about 10 – 15 minutes of handling!).
    We did the boob-method, where I would feed Baby until he fell asleep, let him get that first deep sleep, then placed into crib. Second Child needed to be walked around by Husband, sometimes for ages, but walked until asleep. Night-time routine is the same: feed if necessary, poo changes definitely, but no lights, no other rooms, and shifts. Definitely shifts, so at least ONE parent gets some rest.
    That was more or less our method – it may or may not work for yours, but good luck to them! Might be a couple of years until they get a good solid uninterrupted night ofsleep!

  350. chigau (違う) says

    Pteryxx

    Alt-text is a beautiful thing. ♥

    Agreed.
    But only if you can access it.
    (not on phones and many pad-thingies)

  355. says

    Tony and rq

    My dad was (is? haven’t checked recently) into Campari for a bit. It was OK when I had some, but there are other spirits ahead of it for me. I’d say sorry, but it wouldn’t be genuine.

    You know what I haven’t had in awhile? Grand Marnier.

  358. rq says

    Tony
    You just haven’t had it in the right combinations. It’s also a perfect reflection of my nurturing side: bitter and sour, just the way I like it. :)

    ajb47
    Grand Marnier? I think I’ve almost forgotten what it tastes like…
    We have a nice collection of alcohols here at home, but we seldom indulge in anything but beer and wine, for some reason. We were shocked a couple of years ago when a guest actually took us up on the politely listed offer and asked for a whiskey and cola at a party. We knew we had the stuff, but we were so used to everyone else drinking nothing but beer and wine, we weren’t sure if we’d heard right (we did have to go out and buy some Coke, though…).

  363. 2kittehs says

    Totally ‘rupt here.

    All I can say is

    1) AUGH that new Raw Story design stinks of secondhand tuna. Just be Pandagon for me, now, too.

    2) My Universal Movie Monster is the Invisible Man.

    3) Having a head full of liquid cement aka a common cold is a very minor thing but fuck is it ever annoying. At least it waited until after my first job interview in ages to really get into gear.

    ::cough:: ::snuffle:: ::wheeze::

  364. bassmike says

    Hey Tony! that’s great news. I’ll simply have a malt whiskey myself – ideally a Highland Park. I’ve been to their distillery so I know where it comes from!

    I’ve been having a ‘Shockwave failed’ message ever since Firefox updated. If you find a solution let me know.

    With regard to babies sleeping: our daughter was premature and didn’t feed well at first, so we had months of sleepless nights. We were rather silly and both got up, which didn’t help matters. Once we got our act together – and we had to swap to formula – it meant that we could take it in turns to feed in the night. It seems like forever, but it’s not too long before they sleep through the night…..if you’re lucky!

  365. Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :) says

    Double Brandy Alexander. Korbel, if you have it. Milk, not cream. ^.^

    Or, for those with something to prove, the following:

    BFG 9000 Cocktail:

    Into a chilled pint glass, pour 1oz each rum, tequila, brandy, whisky, gin, green creme de menthe, Midori. Add 7 ice cubes, top up glass with Mountain Dew, stir.

    I need to get some Midori and Mountain Dew and confirm this, but it’s physically capable of being drinked so far. >.>

  367. azhael says

    I hope this is the correct place for this.
    As well as reading my mind in an almost spooky way, Tony! brought up something in the RD thread in his comment @231 i would like to discuss further and apply it to my case.

    Well one of those sexist views up and slapped me across the head right then and there.

    I realized as my friend and I spoke, that all those people talking about how they won’t date a “girly gay man”…
    •or those times when I said that phrase, followed by “I want to date a man bc he’s a man. I don’t want a date a man who acts like a girl”…
    •or those people who put at the top of the Adam4Adam, Manhunt, or Grindr profile “not interested in nellie men, only want masculine men”
    …I realized then and there that we…I…was trapped in thinking about gender in very rigid terms. I realized that I thought “men are supposed to be this way, and women are supposed to be this way”. I thought that any deviation from that was wrong. I thought that there was something wrong with a man acting like a woman, or having traits or characteristics typically associated with women. I realized how deep sexism ran. It runs so deep it affects how we view ourselves, as well as the people around us. It shapes our opinions of our friends, our family, our coworkers, even strangers.

    I have of course seen this a hundred thousand times, expressed in more or less aggressive or offensive ways, and i have done so myself.
    Full disclosure, i currently have a profile in one of those types of sites and there is a sentence where i explain how i’m not (romantically) interested in camp men (yes, i’m yet another of those people). Here is the thing…i really happen to not be. As a general rule, my brain finds it unattractive and in some particular cases, very annoying. Mind you, the same personality traits can be annoying to me regardless of gender (i’m a quiet sort of guy). I feel very uncomfortable talking about this first of all because it is such a recurring theme and i hate the thought that i’m pilling on on what these men have to endure from society at large, let alone their supossed gay peers. Not only that, i fully recognize that there is absolutely nothing fucking wrong with being as flamboyantly camp as Divine, but i also have to recognize that i’m not sexually attracted to those qualities. Unlike what Tony! commented, it’s not because i think it’s wrong for a male to have “female” characteristics (although i remember a time when i kind of did, but then again that’s what my entire environment was hammering in) and i’m able to see the seer absurdity of speaking in those terms. What i definitely think is wrong is that i know of no other way to describe those characteristics. The not being attracted to certain qualities bit, i think that’s fine, i mean, i’m not obligated to feel attraction towards anyone and i hardly get to choose what cues get my brain working. What i’m definitely not fine with is that i don’t have the language to even talk about the subject without offending people i have absolutely no reason or desire to offend or without abscribing those characteristics a feminine quality. I’m lost as to how to express that i’m generally not attracted to certain characteristics without using common slurs or making any reference to “feminine qualities”, which is fucked up since i’m able to recognize that those aren’t feminine qualities, they are human qualities.

    Anyway, i’m hoping i didn’t come off as such a gigantic arsehole that it will get me written off. I would be very thankful if others could show me how to solve that problem (the problem being my ignorance).

  369. opposablethumbs says

    I like Campari. I have to remember it doesn’t like me that much, though. Not nearly as much as I like it. So since I must stick to only one thing, in order to avoid Srs Regrets later, I will of course have Glenmorangie (several large ones, the way things are right now) (though tbh any Speyside would do just fine. You want to make it a single-barrel Balvenie, I ain’t complainin’).

    Yay enjobbedness, Tony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    My heartfelt well-wishes and good luck in re babies-or-infants-sleeping-for-long-enough-at-night. Try for shift work if humanly possible, so each parent snatches at least some sleep at some point in the 24h.

  370. says

    Heya, point for discussion.
    I’m working my way through Butler for my final thesis.
    She discusses the construction of gender with respect to heterosexual desire. She argues that gender is constructed in the way heterosexual desire seeks what is the Other, and not the SElf, necessitating therefore the Self and the Other to exist. So far, so good, but can’t the same be said about homosexual desire: that it seeks the SELF, and not the Other, needing in the classical constructivist sense a complementing Other that it is not to have meaning and existence? Clearly, homosexuality is not free from gender.
    I#m totally comfortable with moving to teh Dome if requested.

  372. says

    Tony @ 357

    I have not had the cherry, but I have a bottle of the peach-raspberry in my collection.

    rq @358

    Grand Marnier tastes like orange Tootsie-Pop. That’s the way it was described to me when my dad first introduced me to it.

    Giliell @359

    Do you mean does Jim Beam have any actual whiskey? Their Classic, Devil’s Cut, Signature Craft and Single Barrel would qualify as that. Not that I drink any Jim Beam without mixing.

  374. rq says

    The Vatican is in trouble: cocaine and cannabis found in official car with diplomatic plates. o.o

    HEEEEEEY opposablethumbs!!

    I hope someone can help you out, azhael, though I’m certainly not knowledgeable on the subject. Best of luck?

    Giliell
    I do hope you’ll stay in the Lounge with that topic, it sounds interesting, and it doesn’t have to be contentious. But if it goes to T-dome, I’ll go and observe there, too.

  375. azhael says

    Thanks rq, i hope someone can point me in the direction to educate myself on the subject.
    It also just ocurred to me that i approached the subject in a very stupid way. Rather than foccusing on what i don’t find attractive i should really have foccused on what i do find attractive. The problem remains the same, i have no vocabulary to describe what i find attractive without resorting to labels like “masculine”, but at least this way i’m not creating the illusion that there’s something wrong with “girly” men when the fact is that there isn’t, i simply don’t happen to find such characteristics subjectively attractive (or i haven’t so far). There is a big problem trying to reconcile the reality of what i tend to find and not find attractive and the fact that in doing so i’m adscribing a possitive value to “masculinity” and negative one to “femininity”. This bothers me a lot and i don’t know how to avoid it without ignoring that my brain does actually respond to some stimuli and not to others and there’s fuck all i can do about it.

  376. azhael says

    I should also say that a similar problem happens with women, although it’s slightly different since i also don’t find “girly” women attractive. However in both cases i don’t know how to talk about the characteristics i do or do not like without making reference to clearly sexist language. This is clearly not acceptable.

  377. says

    azahel
    Hmmm, you know, the guy I’m married to is not actually the embodiement of what I would describe as “attractive to me”. If I had written down a laundry list of what I find attractive in a questionaire, he would never have considered us a possible match. But hell I’m still attracted to that guy. I find “attractive” a very difficult category.

    rq
    Oh, I don’t think so either, but I’m happy to oblige if others disagree.

    And now back to Butler. That’s not an easy read.

  378. says

    Giliell @ 373

    I do not consider spirits made from corn to be whisky.

    You would be correct. Corn is used to make whiskey. Barley is used to make whisky.

    rq

    Did you mean the topic of Butler, or corn vs. barley?

  379. birgerjohansson says

    Headlines from Brit satire sites.
    .

    Olympic Games to include shooting fish in a barrel after Pistorius verdict
    http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2014/09/16/olympic-games-to-include-shooting-fish-in-a-barrel-after-pistorius-verdict/
    Polish Jack the Ripper ‘probably had a free council house too’, claim UKIP
    Brain op goldfish to become Tory candidate
    Forgotten Channel 4 Big Brother contestants finally released from captivity
    .
    Public warned not to download naked photos of Steven Seagal
    Cost of a three-bedroom house in London ‘causing extremist Jihadi mobilisation’
    Criminals asked to push themselves down the stairs by ‘over-worked’ police
    .
    Falkland Islanders vote to become Caribbean
    Kate Bush to lead audience away like a pied piper http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/kate-bush-to-lead-audience-away-like-a-pied-piper-2014082689884

  380. rq says

    ajb47
    Are you feeling contentious about corn vs. barley? If so, I can argue ummmm oats (I’ve had a delicious oat beer)? In the Thunderdome, of course.
    But yes, I was referring to Butler. :)

  381. azhael says

    @377 Giliell

    Oh, i know, i know, i’m not pretending that my “type” is something absolute and i’ll happily abandon those aparent preferences if a person who doesn’t meet them at all tickles my brain. However, i can see patterns in the sort of people i tend to be attracted to and particularly in a context like an online site with profiles and often scant information, i think it’s useful to provide certain guidelines of what one is, in principle, looking for. Also, for conversation purposes, etc…as with any other subjective preference, there are no absolutes but there are patterns.

  382. says

    rq 380

    I am not feeling contentious about it, but there are those who might. I’m sure there are strenuous and vociferous arguments about which grain makes for better distilled spirits, but I leave that to others and sit to the side drinking what I like. Drink all the whisky you like, it leaves more whiskey for me.

  383. says

    azhael @367:

    Unlike what Tony! commented, it’s not because i think it’s wrong for a male to have “female” characteristics (although i remember a time when i kind of did, but then again that’s what my entire environment was hammering in) and i’m able to see the seer absurdity of speaking in those terms.

    I should have elaborated more on this point too. I think the type of person we’re attracted to may well be affected by social forces. I am typically attracted to men who are more stereotypically masculine, but that’s not always the case. I cannot change that, but by being aware of it, I can stop myself from looking at gay men who are effeminate and judging them based on this. I can look at drag queens and stop judging them on this (for a long time, I was uneasy around drag queens, and I suspect it was because I thought there was something wrong with gender performance art). I can look at people I know and stop viewing them as if something is wrong with them because of their hand gestures or speech patterns.
    I’m really ashamed I ever thought like that, but I own up to it. When I’m confronted with these thoughts, I’m aware of them now and make a conscious effort to slap them down hard.
    But being aware of those biases and working to change them hasn’t yet-and I’m not sure if it could-resulted in any change in those qualities of a man that I’m attracted to.
    Which leads to what are those qualities.
    Which leads to me realizing that many of the men (an overwhelming amount) I’m attracted to are men that are physically fit, muscular to some extent, with deep voices–in other words society’s vision of traditional male masculinity.
    Moreover, I’m almost always attracted to white men too.

    If you’d asked me years ago if I thought this was racist, I’d have said no. I’m still not fully certain what the answer is, but I do think the undercurrent of racism in society can affect what we’re attracted to. I mean, we get the message that black bodies aren’t equal all the time and that white bodies are the ideal. We get the message that black men are thugs and criminals. We get the message that black women are exotic beauties who exist for the male gaze. We get the message that white men are the standard of all that is desirable. How do you shed a lifetime of societal indoctrination?!

    Gay people get the same messages. We internalize them too. I can’t imagine how they wouldn’t affect how we view black people or white people.

    At the same time, I don’t know how to fight this and it really makes me uncomfortable knowing these things about me. Like I said in that thread-we all have some ugly shit inside us and confronting that isn’t easy and it isn’t pleasant.

    I’m lost as to how to express that i’m generally not attracted to certain characteristics without using common slurs or making any reference to “feminine qualities”, which is fucked up since i’m able to recognize that those aren’t feminine qualities, they are human qualities.

    Actually, I think you’re discussing this fine. You’re not flat out saying “I don’t like girly men”. You’ve explained your thoughts and conveyed that you understand that notions of masculinity and femininity are societal creations and that you’re having difficulty expressing your thoughts on the matter without offending. That shows that you’re giving the subject greater thought than what seems apparent from my reading of profiles on gay dating/sex sites. I think it is ok (though I fully accept that I could be wrong) to talk about what you find attractive in a way that acknowledges the social construction of masculinity and femininity.

  384. says

    azhael:
    One other point when it comes to online profiles-I think how people frame their attraction is important too. You’ve seen the type of profiles I described (more than likely you’ve seen a lot, I know I have).
    “Nellies need not apply”
    “No fems”
    “…and I don’t like queens”

    I don’t have the greatest memory, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never framed my attractions in that way. I haven’t been on a dating site in a while (despite the fact that part of me knows I’m not a loser, there’s still the part of me that says who wants a guy who is jobless, without a car, and is currently spinning his wheels in the hamster ball of life?), but I know the profiles I have up don’t describe what I’m *not* looking for.
    For instance, my Adam4Adam profile says something about how I’m interested in stimulating intellectual discussion and mentions my interest in social justice-specifically feminism. I think I included something about shredding gender roles and other SJW issues (yeah, I know, not something you often find in a dating profile). When I discuss men, it’s usually to say “I’m typically attracted to white guys, but I’ve also found myself attracted to Hispanic men”.
    I don’t mention that I’m *not* attracted to black men*.
    I don’t mention that I’m *not* attracted to effeminate men*
    I try to frame things in such a way as to give an indication of what I *do* life, without causing splash damage.

     

    *When either of these come up in conversation, I don’t say “I’m not attracted to black men or effeminate men”. I usually say I haven’t found a black man that I’ve been attracted to, but I don’t know what the future might hold. The same is true of men who are effeminate. I too don’t know any other way to explain my attractions and desires, but I think to say “I don’t like black guys” is a pretty shitty way to talk about one’s attractions. We need more nuanced language.

  386. Ogvorbis says

    Tony:

    I know it is morning, but I just heard the great news.

    I’ll take a double Johnny Walker Black Label neat.

    ===========

    Had to check out for a day. One of the men I worked with at my park when I first joined — known him for almost 25 years — was the aggressor in a murder suicide. He was one of the least racist men I know (he was also a gun nut and an odd duck) but spouted off some shit to his black neighbor, with whom he has been good friends for 15 years, and his neighbor told him that from a white guy, that is racist. And I guess they played uproar. Which ended with both dead.

  388. opposablethumbs says

    Hey, bassmike and rq – thank you! Really, thank you. Just going through a bit of a rough/extra-chaotic/dodgy patch just now, and not feeling up to much – but I’m still sneaking in for a bit of a read from time to time. I expect normal levels of chattiness will be resumed at some point :-)

    Many hugs to the Horde for general awesomeness (and specific awesomeness wrt the latest head-desking clusterfuck in the atheosphere. PS Dear Professor Dawkins, embracing a mode of behaviour more reminiscent of reddit than it is of the beloved city of perspiring dreams is infra dig. So much so that I’m surprised you did not choose to eschew it on those grounds alone, if no others)

  390. says

    Great link via irisvanderpluym about gender-inclusive language around abortion: http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/08/gender-inclusive-discussing-abortion

    Tony and azhael, I think its good to note that our parameters for attractiveness are profoundly affected by our social context, and this necessarily includes gender-conforming and racial components because, as we’ve all noted before, we’re swimming in racism, sexism, and all the other bigotries, from the moment we stop parasiting our mothers. How could it not have a major effect?

    So having preferences that ‘happen’ to match common societal value judgements? Basically, that’s being human. Nothing to have shame over.

    Finding a feminist-friendly way to express that, a way that doesn’t thoughtlessly reinforce those cultural prejudices, that’s the tricky bit. Enjoying your discussion, just wanted to contribute a bit, if it’s at all helpful. If not, please ignore. :)

  392. birgerjohansson says

    Ogvorbis, this is a horrible tragedy.
    — — — — — — — — — — — — —
    “Kevin Sorbo explains why more Christian movies aren’t made: Jews run Hollywood”
    Jeeeeeeez.

  393. says

    Feck. Og, that’s awful. Stupid autocorrect. Makes phone commenting easier, and occasionally craps on what im trying to say as the price.

    I added Og and Oggie and OgVorbis to it, so that should stop now, sorry Oggie.

  394. says

    CaitieCat @390:

    So having preferences that ‘happen’ to match common societal value judgements? Basically, that’s being human. Nothing to have shame over.

    Thanks for saying this. I think I know it on some level, but it’s nice to hear. Sometimes I feel bad for not being able to be attracted to a greater diversity of men.

    ****
    Alison Bechdel is the recipient of a wonderful award (yes, *that* Bechdel):

    The 2014 MacArthur Fellows were announced today, and among the pack of very impressive (and impressively diverse; nice work, MacArthur people!) brainiacs is ThinkProgress favorite Alison Bechdel. The brilliant cartoonist and graphic memoirist has explored the everyday lives of lesbians in her comic strip, Dykes To Watch Out For, which ran from 1983 to 2008. Her other works include Fun Home: A Family Tragicomic, based on Bechdel’s discovery, after her father’s death, that he was gay but never came out, and Are You My Mother? A Comic Drama, in which Bechdel turns the focus on her mother and their distant, fractured relationship.
    […]
    Bechdel, who sounds like she is already living the dream — she is in Italy right now, at an artist residency — will receive a stipend of $625,000 over five years. She can spend it however she likes. She can exchange it for change and swim around in it like Scrooge McDuck. But Bechdel told The L.A. Times that she had other plans for her cash: “It will give me a lot of security that I don’t have. Pay off some debts, save for retirement — really boring stuff,” she said, adding later that the prize will free her to “take some risks, do something new — to really plunge into my work. It’s an incredible gift.”

  398. opposablethumbs says

    Ogvorbis, I’m so sorry.

    Making the already-horrible, fatal: ultra-easy access to guns does it again :-(

  401. azhael says

    I think the type of person we’re attracted to may well be affected by social forces. I am typically attracted to men who are more stereotypically masculine, but that’s not always the case. I cannot change that, but by being aware of it, I can stop myself from looking at gay men who are effeminate and judging them based on this. I can look at drag queens and stop judging them on this (for a long time, I was uneasy around drag queens, and I suspect it was because I thought there was something wrong with gender performance art). I can look at people I know and stop viewing them as if something is wrong with them because of their hand gestures or speech patterns.

    I ‘m in the exact same possition, i think. I used to judge effeminate men and even join in when others were being pretty vicious about it. If i have anything to judge nowadays is related to a particular individual being annoyingly loud or having a vacuous personality (characteristics that i dislike independent of the gender, identity, etc, of the individual). It’s no longer a judgement on their lack of “masculinity”. I’m glad to have overcome that prejudice to a significant degree. The problem is that by just making reference to “it”, it seems like i’m making a negative judgement about it, because the only language i’m aware of to describe it, is not at all possitive or even neutral. Therefore i simply can’t make any reference to it in any context without using language i really do not like.
    I agree that it would be pretty extraordinary if social forces had no effect on how we perceive attraction but at the same time, like you, my attraction to a deep voice, a strong frame or even a hairy armpit seems completely innate. I can’t remember not reacting to such things. That’s why my issue is not with not finding certain characteristics attractive, i’m fine with that, there are plenty of things not even remotely related to traditional gender qualities that i don’t find attractive either and i feel no guilt or discomfort about expressing that. The issue is a lack of adequate language.

    But being aware of those biases and working to change them hasn’t yet-and I’m not sure if it could-resulted in any change in those qualities of a man that I’m attracted to.
    Which leads to what are those qualities.
    Which leads to me realizing that many of the men (an overwhelming amount) I’m attracted to are men that are physically fit, muscular to some extent, with deep voices–in other words society’s vision of traditional male masculinity.

    I don’t think being aware of those biases could modify what i find attractive, either. Like i mentioned earlier, it really does seem (very strongly) like i have no control whatsoever about what particular characteristics my brain reacts to. Once again the problem is that i can’t describe what i do find attractive without making a reference to that traditional idea of “masculinity”. It is completely inadequate.

    Actually, I think you’re discussing this fine. You’re not flat out saying “I don’t like girly men”. You’ve explained your thoughts and conveyed that you understand that notions of masculinity and femininity are societal creations and that you’re having difficulty expressing your thoughts on the matter without offending. That shows that you’re giving the subject greater thought than what seems apparent from my reading of profiles on gay dating/sex sites. I think it is ok (though I fully accept that I could be wrong) to talk about what you find attractive in a way that acknowledges the social construction of masculinity and femininity.

    The problem is that i can’t write an entire explanation of the nuances of what i mean in a dating site profile…(believe me my profile is already long enough to deter most people). I can’t explain that while i reject the social constructs of masculinity and femininity, there are certain characteristics typically described as “effeminate” that i don’t find attractive. Neither can i comfortably put it the other way around by describing the “masculine” characteristics i do like. Ok, maybe i could, but there should be a better way to talk about these things than to write a thesis with completely inadequate language, constantly pointing out how inadequate it is ( mind you, for some time now, i have been annoying my friends with elaborate sermons every time they pass judgement on an individual with one of the more vicious terms, which is not a popular thing to do and it also feels disingenous as i can’t object to what they say while using language i object to myself).
    Currently i had settled on phrasing it so that what i’m saying i don’t find attractive are the general set of characteristics that are typically associated with campness. I’m not ok with that but i hadn’t found a more satisfactory way of putting it and at least it doesn’t involve describing people as feminine. I’m off, right away, to changing it to what i do like rather than what i don’t like. That at least seems like a small improvement.

    I appreciate your words on the subject, Tony. Thank you very much for taking the time to share them.

  402. says

    I never knew what the deal was with the story of Dawkins and honey. Now I do. Geez. What a fuckwit (then there’s his support for profiling of Muslims people who look like terrorists, whatever the hell that’s supposed mean ::nudge nudge wink wink::)

  404. says

    azhael @401:

    I appreciate your words on the subject, Tony. Thank you very much for taking the time to share them.

    Likewise. I don’t find myself engaged in discussions of this nature-at all-so I quite enjoyed hearing your thoughts.

  405. says

    Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, recently voiced a theory that I find is becoming more popular with the rabid right-wingers. The theory is that the USA wouldn’t have groups like ISIS as enemies if the U.S. government would just promote christianity.

    “Radical secularism that has driven the defining characteristics of our Western culture, our Judeo-Christian heritage, from our schools, our entertainment and even our government has left in its place a void, a vacuum,” Perkins argued. “And we should know from experience that a vacuum will be filled by something. Without a creedal vision that a society can unify around, the people, the nation, will perish. Unless we are content to allow ISIS or some other radical belief system to fill the void left by secularism, we must rediscover America’s founding, Christ-centered vision.”

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/religious-right-leader-ties-us-secularism-islamic-state

  407. Saad says

    Lynna, #405

    Why is he worried about ISIS?

    ISIS bans math, social studies for children

    Books cannot include any reference to evolution. And teachers must say that the laws of physics and chemistry “are due to Allah’s rules and laws.”

    Ohhh… I get it. Is it because they’re doing it in the name of Allah and not Jesus?

  409. The Mellow Monkey says

    Ogvorbis, that is horrible. Take care of yourself.

    —

    azhael @ 401

    I agree that it would be pretty extraordinary if social forces had no effect on how we perceive attraction but at the same time, like you, my attraction to a deep voice, a strong frame or even a hairy armpit seems completely innate. I can’t remember not reacting to such things.

    Have you ever read Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality by Anne Fausto-Sterling? It’s not going to change what you’re attracted to and that’s not the point of it, but it gives some fascinating insight into how society has constructed gender and how our sexuality is molded by these constructions.

    I doubt it helps with your dating profile concerns, but I’d recommend it to anyone just starting to dig into these topics.

    (I must also point out that most adult humans grow axillary hair in their armpits and it’s only specific cultures that have deemed this hair exclusively “masculine” and in need of removal from women. You’re attracted to what you’re attracted to, but that one truly is a cultural construct.)

  410. says

    Ah yes, it’s burning on our floor
    The 13th
    Firefighters are here, there’s smoke, I hope they know what they’re doing, because so far nobody even informed us or told us to leave. I’m also worried about my neighbour, but I don’t want to stop the firefighters from doing their job by annoying them with my questions

  411. The Mellow Monkey says

    Gah, Giliell! I hope everybody’s safe.

    —

    Addendum to my #409 above: Obviously associating deep voices and strong frames with masculinity is the result of cultural constructs as well, since masculinity itself is a construct. The armpit was just especially striking to me, since that’s the result of waxing and razors and genetic background.

    Culture can influence what we’re attracted to, but it can also make us redefine our attractions. “I like hairy armpits” means “I like masculine traits” because of the baggage we’ve stuffed under our arms.

  416. says

    Mellow Monkey @409:
    Thanks for the book recommendation. I’ve got it on my Google books wishlist.

    ****

    Giliell:
    I’m glad everyone is safe. Hopefully whoever they carried out will be all right.

  417. The Mellow Monkey says

    Today in poverty cuisine:

    Black Bean Sandwich

    2 slices of whatever bread you can afford
    2 pats of butter/butter alternative
    Leftover black beans from dinner several nights ago

    Toast bread and spread with your butter/butter alternative. Top one slice generously with beans. Salt and pepper to taste, then cover with the second slice of bread. Eat. Fat, carbs, and a complete protein. Mmm.

  418. cicely says

    rq: Pretty much what we all thought, then.
    Trouble is, I don’t remember how long it was before Son slept through the night…or how we achieved it.
    –
    *hugs* for Ogvorbis. I’m sorry about your co-worker.
    –
    Giliell:

    Ah yes, it’s burning on our floor

    O.O
     
    I’m glad that Further Developments suggest that it’s under control/not too bad.
    –

  421. says

    Ogvorbis
    *hugs* That’s horrible. One of my highschool friends did that a few years back (to another of my highschool friends, and her new boyfriend; he survived the shooting, though.)

    Giliell
    Ugh. Hopefully everyone’s ok.

  422. azhael says

    @390 CaitieCat

    Thank you! I’ll get to reading that right away.

    @409 The Mellow Monkey

    I haven’t, thank you, it sounds like an interesting read!
    As for the armpit stuff, i feel silly taking the space to clarify this but i didn’t mean any hair on any armpit, but specifically a very hairy armpit on a fit, “masculine” body. I’m fully aware that axillary hair is a secondary sexual characteristic of most humans and that our perception about that characteristic in particularly is obviously influenced by culture, but nevertheless i was making a point about a particular amount of hair, not just any amount of hair. There are hairy male armpits that do absolutely nothing for me…there are others though….and it’s always been that way, as far as i can remember (by the way, axillary hair on females doesn’t particularly bother me, to be honest, but it’s not specifically a turn on as it is on some males).
    And now i feel weird…

    And about my dating profile concerns, i realise that is a very silly example to discuss this subject about, but since Tony had already alluded to them and is a public context with limited potential for explanations, it’s one that particularly worries me. The problem of a lack of adequate language extends to many other situations, that one just happens to be one were my preferences are constantly on display and the way i have to phrase them, bothers me. It was useful for the discussion.

    @403 /404 Tony!

    (xDD Bloody armpits….what is it about them….)
    The pleasure is mine.

  424. azhael says

    I’m afraid not. I swore never to join. I even shook my fist in the air (no dramatic lighning, though, which would have been nice).

  425. The Mellow Monkey says

    azhael @ 422, I’m sorry for making you feel weird. That wasn’t what I was going for with pointing out the armpit thing. I was just using it as an example of how we humans tend to gender things arbitrarily. I think the fact that you’re aware of how using certain types of language about your preferences could hurt people and seeking ways to avoid that is really commendable.

  426. pHred says

    Hi,
    Threadrupt – I have been keeping up with the comments in the posts (good golly what a train wreck!) and haven’t been able to read the Lounge or Thunderdome. And for some reason I haven’t been able to post from my mobile device. I can’t login and haven’t had time to troubleshoot. Urgh!

    I just wanted to stop by to say a big THANK YOU to rq and all the others who helped when I was busy being a mess due to driving issues this summer. My daughter loved her painting camp so it was totally worth it for her. Now I just have to figure out if I am going to be able to deal with that stress next summer if they hold that camp again :-(

    I know – small cheese stuff, but it can still make your life hell sometimes.
    I really appreciate having a place like this to visit. Thanks again.

    Hopefully I can fix my login issue so I can ‘talk’ again.

  428. rq says

    pHred
    I’ll most likely be here next summer, too, if you need me. :) Or I can find you an interesting motorcyclist to follow again.
    I’m glad the stress was worth it, and hopefully, with a year to prepare (is there any lesser road where you might feel safe practicing, as it were?), you’ll do just as well (and better!). :)
    Good luck with the tech issues.

  429. says

    ajb47#378

    You would be correct. Corn is used to make whiskey. Barley is used to make whisky

    I beg to differ. Whisky is made from barley, whiskey is made from wheat and barley (and occasionally rye), and bourbon is made from corn. That last bloody well isn’t whiskey, no matter what the distillers claim. (Mine’s Islay, Laphroig for preference.)
    Tony!
    Yay for the job finally starting.

    If you’d asked me years ago if I thought this was racist, I’d have said no. I’m still not fully certain what the answer is, but I do think the undercurrent of racism in society can affect what we’re attracted to. I mean, we get the message that black bodies aren’t equal all the time and that white bodies are the ideal.

    Inded; looking at, e.g. People magazine’s sexiest man alive covers, from when they started in 1985 to today, there has been exactly one PoC to make the cut (Denzel Washington, 1996).
    azhael#401

    Once again the problem is that i can’t describe what i do find attractive without making a reference to that traditional idea of “masculinity”.

    Sure you can; you just did earlier in the post: You like (in a man) broad shoulders, a deep voice, and defined muscles. Granted that these are characteristics often associated with masculinity on our culture, but the descriptors themselves aren’t coded that way: I’ve dated women who I’d describe as muscular, broad shouldered and with a deep voice.

  432. says

    Dalillama
    I totally agree. It’s not like I think that Bourbon drinkers are inferior or something, I just don’t think that it falls within the definition of whisk(e)y.

    +++
    Well, thank you all for holding my hand.
    Everything seems “fine” for a given value of “fine”, but I’m worried about my neighbour, who’s a really nice person whom I like very much. Maybe I’ll hear something through the grapevine.

    +++
    Believe it or not, German TV is showing Braveheart tonight…

  433. says

    Satan has been busy again:

    On today’s “Pray In Jesus Name” program, Gordon Klingenschmitt reacted to a recent decision by the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upholding New Jersey’s ban on use of sexual orientation conversion therapy on minors by declaring that Satan is using lawmakers to silence the prophets of God.

    “There is a demonic spirit of persecution that is in some politicians,” he said. “The Devil is influencing them to persecute Christians and they’re using the courts to do it, they’re using these laws to do it, they want to silence the prophets!”

    Those who practice such therapy, Kilngenschmitt said, are prophets who have been “called to help these people get free of their sin.” […]

    Right Wing Watch link.

  435. says

    A random thought, which I hope I can express clearly:

    Hanging out here has raised my consciousness in interesting ways.

    I read. A lot. I reread. A lot. I’m finding that I notice sexism, homosexual and other stereotyping, racism, rape disguised as seduction, and so forth a lot more than I used to.

    I used to let that sort of thing slide sometimes if it was minor or if I enjoyed the story otherwise, but I can’t anymore. An author has to be damn good for me to let even mild stereotyping get by me, and some books I used to enjoy, at least when my brain hurt and I wanted an escape, no longer make the cut. The same for movies and TV, which means that sometimes I have to keep my mouth shut when the husband is watching something.

    Thanks for ruining my fun, Horde. :) And thanks for being you. *fills hugs basket and puts out iced tea and cookies*

  437. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @pteryxx, #317:

    No, I’m not happy with the “read more” hijacking of the clipboard.

    I leave it in b/c I think if everyone left it in when quoting from each other in these threads it would quickly become intolerable and force change.

    but others aren’t, so maybe I’ll just cut it out in the future.

  438. The Mellow Monkey says

    Sigh. Partner was in a lot of pain after a class camping trip, with his knee swollen. He finally went to have it checked out today. Turns out he has a sprained ligament in one of his knees and is now on crutches. This is going to make school difficult, but at least he has a referral to disability services so he can get a van to most places.

    My mother has…some as-yet-undiagnosed problem with her knee and can barely hobble around with a cane right now.

    If you’re prone to knee problems, stay away from me.

  439. rq says

    Anne
    Your experience is a common one. Tried re-watching Moulin Rouge a couple of months ago. It was… difficult.

    +++

    Warning: spiders.

    Also, two articles on why I can’t always rest easy at night: one and two.

  440. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Does an MRI of an MRA reveal MRSA?

    Nah, it just shows a hole in the empathy areas of the brain.

  441. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    SNAFU, American health care style. My insurance company was cutting the Redhead off on her badly needed rehab today, but they are also dragging their feet on seeing that certain equipment including a Hoyer lift are delivered to the house. ARG! Need some grog….

  442. opposablethumbs says

    Thanks for ruining my fun, Horde. :)

    “That’s some Horde, that Pharyngulite Horde.” “It’s the best there is,” the squid all agreed.
    also, what pHred said at 426.

    Giliell, I am glad you and yours are not singed. I sincerely hope nobody else was hurt either.

  443. says

    Anne
    I find that sexism is like that odd complicated word you learned last week: Suddenly you hear it everywhere. It must have been there before, because it’s not realistic that everybody else just learned it last week and and now keeps using it, only you never noticed….

  444. says

    Game maker Wonder Forge and DC Comics alienate girls. One dad is not happy:

    For my birthday a few months ago, my buddy Matt gave me Justice League: Axis of Villains, a superhero board game by DC Comics and game maker Wonder Forge. “It say ages 8 and up,” he tells me, “but I read the rules. Cassie’s smart. She can handle it if you play together.”

    We’re old, so we don’t really get gifts for each other anymore, but we do buy stuff for the kids. A really thoughtful gift, it was a way to connect with my kid via something we both love, and simultaneously teach her gaming, math, and strategy. Hours of quality time with my kid. Geek dads FTW.

    But then I looked at the box. There were plenty of DC heroes and villains depicted, but they were all male.

    A decade ago, I might not have noticed. Or noticed, thought it was lame, shrugged, and moved on. But I look for these things now, because I have a little girl and I want her to feel included.

    “Are there any girl characters?” I asked.

    Matt had a flash of concern cross his face. He has two daughters himself, and understood immediately. He tilted his head to take a closer look at the box.

    “They must,” he said at last. “It’s the friggin’ Justice League. They’ve got to have Wonder Woman, at least.”

    It was a fair argument, but doubt niggled me. A few days later Cassie saw the game and asked to play it. I showed her the board and the dice, and explained how we pretend to be the Justice League, defending the Watchtower from bad guys.

    She was way into the idea. She’s seen all the episodes of Justice League and Justice League: Unlimited. She knows the Watchtower and can name almost everyone even in the extended league. She’s especially interested in the women of the league. As those of you who read the blog regularly know, she has made costumes for many of them, including Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, Batgirl (who isn’t in the JL, but Cassie says she should be), and even some of the villains like Catwoman and Harley Quinn.

    But sure enough, we opened up the game to find four player heroes to choose from, and at least two dozen villains, and not a female in sight.

    “What girl can I be?” Cassie asked, digging through the game pieces.

    “I don’t think there are any girls, sweetie,” I said, anger building in me. Cause really, DC & Wonder Forge? WTF? You know it’s 2014, right?

    Cassie put down the game pieces. “I don’t want to play this, then.” She turned and moved to leave the room, and it broke my heart. In part for her, and in part because I love superheroes, and this should be something we can share.

    “How about if we make our own girl pieces to play?” I asked. “It can be an art project.”

    She immediately brightened. “That’s a great idea!”

    It was a nice save, but I was still pissed. I groused about it on Twitter moments later, and a reader came to my rescue, pointing to this gem at Derivative Crafts.

    Someone had already encountered the same problem as me and fixed it.

    Some days, I fucking love the internet.

    Geek dads for the win is right.

  445. Morgan!? Militant Pacifist says

    Ogvorbis, that is horrible news.

    Giliell, I’m glad the fire wasn’t worse and I hope your neighbor will be okay.

    Leaving a big pile of assorted hugs and warm fuzzies. Help yourself.

  446. Brony says

    This whole “estrogen vibe” BS has me looking at a paper I found again and I thought I would share.
    Beyond masculinity: Testosterone, gender/sex, and human socialbehavior in a comparative context

    I think it does a good job of pointing out how preconceptions of gender have and are skewing how we look at what we call “sex hormones” we all have serum levels of estrogen and testosterone. They are also synthesized locally in the brain and we are still trying to understand precisely what they are doing.
    There is no reason to think that the levels that we see are not correlated with how we choose to raise the sexes. If testosterone is associated with dominance behavior it bears showing that society has many ways of trying to dismiss dominant behavior in women and other disadvantaged groups, and men to avoid “looking weak” even when wrong. If estrogen is associated with nurturing (I need to look that up) it’s worth pointing out that society has many ways of trying to force women to be nurturing and men to take on other social roles.

    If we flipped the social roles I have no problem with the possibility that serum testosterone would be higher in women and estrogen higher in men.

  447. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    Resurrecting an ancient comment by Carlie, just for the awesome:

    The potential effects of pants made out of an octopus sounds like a Newberry award-winning book waiting to be banned, if you ask me.

    [From SciBlogs]

  448. says

    I simply have not got the spoons left – if anyone feels they do, please go ahead to the jelly Pope thread and explain why even nasty awful conservative women with objectively awful policies get to not be called “crazy” and “witch”?

    Not only is the breath hitch back, it’s accompanied by what looks like a snake under my back skin, a muscle so knotted you can see it through my shirt. :/

    Gonna have to make a doctor’s appointment, and be very very glad I don’t live somewhere with drastically underfunded health care, like North Korea, or Somalia, or Pittsburgh.

  449. blf says

    Not much mention of cheese and even less of MUSHROOMS!, so the mildly deranged penguin probably wasn’t there, The Marathon du Médoc: running the world’s longest, booziest, race:

    Is a full marathon with 23 wine stops also offering specialities such as oysters, steak, and ice-cream a recipe for success — or disaster?

    … Oh, and I’m extremely hungover. Fortunately, I’m attempting Bordeaux’s Marathon du Médoc; a running event combining “wine, sports, fun and health”, which seems to actively encourage anything that’s normally discouraged in running. Held every September in France’s Médoc region, this sounds like the most idiotic race known to man. The course is 26.2 miles through scenic vineyards and the participants — in compulsory fancy dress — are expected to indulge in 23 glasses of the famed vintages en route, while also stuffing themselves with local specialities such as oysters, foie gras, cheese, steak and ice-cream. Brilliant.

    …

    23 glasses — at a (typical) c.120 ml, that’s c.2760 ml. or more than 3 750 ml bottles… (almost four bottles, in fact, assuming my owhicn mahicths is correhic…),*&,,;/.;

  450. says

    Giliell#370

    I’m working my way through Butler for my final thesis.
    She discusses the construction of gender with respect to heterosexual desire. She argues that gender is constructed in the way heterosexual desire seeks what is the Other, and not the Self,

    I don’t actually think that sexuality, hetero or otherwise, actually works like that; if that continuum exists at all, it may be between asexuality and sexuality; I have known asexual people who enjoy masturbation but not partner sex, whereas in my experience most people who aren’t asexual find partnered sex to be considerably more appealing/satisfying/pleasurable than masturbation, which could lead into a discussion of Self vs Other, but I think that the actual bases of attraction, when present, are somewhat deeper than that, and any discussion of Self Vs Other etc. is a post-hoc rationalization for a preexisting situation.

    necessitating therefore the Self and the Other to exist. So far, so good, but can’t the same be said about homosexual desire: that it seeks the SELF, and not the Other, needing in the classical constructivist sense a complementing Other that it is not to have meaning and existence? Clearly, homosexuality is not free from gender.

    And this is more or less why I’m not convinced; once you start to look at the actual variation that exists in human sexuality, there’s no way to cleanly break it into such simplified categories, and an analysis based on that will get you pretty much nowhere.

  451. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Giliell, #370 & everyone interested in this:

    So, about Butler.

    I find that she has very little predictive power. Imagine a post-gender world, where some researcher happens to notice that they have a thing for big butts. The researcher goes out into the city and sets up a camera that automatically snaps a picture of any 2 people holding hands (since this is post-gender, we also get hand-holding sensors on our cameras). The researcher, also living in a post-child abuse world, discards adult/child couples from the sample, then looks for “indicia of attraction” and/or “indicia of platonic intent”. Going around to different representative postal codes, and setting up the camera for a day in a busy section of each one, we find N couples that are presumed to be holding hands for romantic reasons.

    Analysis further shows that for 70% of couples, there is at least a 20% size increase from the smaller partner to the larger. For 20% of couples, there is no size difference measurable by the camera’s resolution. For 10% of couples there is a small size difference.

    Would the researcher then be justified in saying that 70% of people are seeking the “other” and reject “self” as sexy b/c it’s too familiar? Why?

    This is a tautological observation. We have a defined difference. We have enough people that some are going to have relationships across it and some within it. What does that tell us about the origin of that difference? Not a lot.

    Of course, gender is relentlessly pushed as a basis of attraction, and humans learn to pay attention to gender cues as part of determining attraction, but that doesn’t mean that gender is the source of the attraction or that self/other operates the way your summary of Butler suggests. (I remember Butler being a bit more complicated about it, but I don’t have my Butler texts here – they’re in boxes, thank FSM.) An extrovert may be looking for another extrovert, a white supremacist may be looking for another white supremacist, and a feminist may be looking for another feminist, and yet all may be het folks looking for a partner very differently gendered than themselves. This is the part that I don’t particularly remember Butler considering. (Occasional exceptional gender within a heterosexual framework was considered, IIRC, but not axes completely separate from gender and sex.) If one sees an ad in the Men Seeking Women section of the personals, and the ad begins, “Introvert seeks same,” is the writer seeking self or other?

    So sure, the observation about self/other can be extended to queer folk, but it’s just as ridiculous for queer folk as for straight folk. In neither case does it have any power to predict desire or truly explain the source of it.

    Now if Butler had data that queer introverts seek queer introverts at a higher rate than het introverts seek het introverts, and the rates were similar to the 10/90 split of queers/straights in society, and there were similar findings for other identifiable traits, THEN we could say, “Oh, there are a group of people that are seeking ‘self’ more than other, and this is associated with queerness, perhaps even causally.” Until then, Butler’s observation seems a deepity to me.

  452. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @azhael, #367:
    You came off fine to me. May I?

    The not being attracted to certain qualities bit, i think that’s fine, i mean, i’m not obligated to feel attraction towards anyone and i hardly get to choose what cues get my brain working. What i’m definitely not fine with is that i don’t have the language to even talk about the subject without offending people i have absolutely no reason or desire to offend or without abscribing those characteristics a feminine quality. I’m lost as to how to express that i’m generally not attracted to certain characteristics without using common slurs or making any reference to “feminine qualities”,

    You also say, in a different section, that the same traits make you (or may make you) uncomfortable regardless of gender.

    So what are those traits? It looks like you may be interested [among other things] in some combination of:

    1. Comfortable with silence
    2. Introverted and/or comfortable with introverts
    3. Projects social confidence
    4. Doesn’t act or dress to attract attention (because you would be pulled too close to the spotlight)

    I may have any or all of these things wrong, but there are loud non-camp guys and quiet non-camp guys. Similar with extroverted/introverted, etc.

    There is nothing wrong with identifying these traits directly, and every advantage – even if “camp” or “nelly” or “queen” as a shorthand quickly signals a large number of people who would be wasting their time to message you, it actually doesn’t narrow the field as much as you would like. Moreover, because that ground already feels “covered” to you by the camp/nelly/queen comment, you might be just a tad less likely to get specific about some of the traits that turn you off/on.

    Sitting with why things turn you off/on can get you past the stereotypes, and speaking of the traits themselves shouldn’t be problematic. I doubt anyone would find my four-factor list problematic if I used it on a personal ad, for instance, even though it would exclude nearly all “camp” gay men.

  453. FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!) says

    ‘Rupt.

    In Defence of the Amateur*

    Last night was my daughter’s school concert. She didn’t participate, none of the grade one’s did and that’s okay, they have their own event later in the year. I wasn’t keen on it, fatigue and the fact The Small Fry is going through a boundary pushing phase made me very reluctant. But I’d committed to go and if I want TSF to honour her commitments, well, honouring mine is pretty mandatory.

    I loved it. I even wept a little, in that way that you hope everyone thinks is just an itchy eye.

    My curmudgeon crust started to slough off with first singer. His pitch was dodgy as hell, he looked so small and alone on stage despite being in his last year of highschool. But as the song went on slowly he forgot the audience. The joy of music making was a visible rising tide: his foot began to tap, then a little shake of the hips, a sway of the shoulders and suddenly his pitch firmed up and the final chorus came through with all the passion the song demanded.

    Fantastic.

    Where the hell else can you watch such a thing? Such a transformation of emotion laid bare in a literal spotlight? I can understand the dread some folk feel about going to these things, but I think boredom and/or second-hand embarrassment is worth it to participate in even a tiny triumph of the human creative spirit.

    *Yeah, I’ve said as much before. But I’m in a grasping for the good kinda mood….

  454. Rowan vet-tech says

    Is there anyone amongst the USA-based horde who know someone who would like a baby corn snake? One of the two ‘world’s firsts’ that I hatched out this year has developed a lot of subtle spinal kinks. It doesn’t harm him in anyway, but he absolutely canNOT be used as breeding stock, and finding someone willing to honor that can be difficult. His kinked brother went to a coworker, but I still have this one male left. He’s cute, and fairly docile, and should be really pretty with pale grays and whites when he’s an adult.

  455. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    @Rowan, #454:

    I didn’t know you were a herpe! That’s awesome.

    I knew this guy Brad who is/was the biggest reptile breeder on the west coast of the US…at least the biggest private one.

    …hrm…Yep!

    he’s still working & breeding, but now with an educational center on-site (he used to do most of his educational work through OMSI). Check out http://bradsworldreptiles.com/index.php?id=3

  457. Rowan vet-tech says

    Mellow, using SYR I can ship to any state in the contiguous 48 where they are legal to keep. I’m in California, and will be vending at the Sacramento Reptile Expo at the end of the month.

    Crip Dyke:

    I may have to plan a trip up to Oregon some time to see that facility! I live not too far from Carol Huddleston who is THE name in miami-phase corn snakes. I’m also a little surprised you didn’t know I had snakes. Have I really only ever posted photos of the foster kittens? XD

  458. The Mellow Monkey says

    Rowan, I may have a home for the kinky little guy. My partner’s interested in him and would absolutely not breed him. He needs to think it over for the night and consider the logistics of adding a new critter, though, so don’t let that stand in the way of anyone else who could give him a good home.

  459. 2kittehs says

    rq @366 and giliell @368

    Thank you both!

    I would quite like this job, I think. It’s student enrolment officer at a college in town. Small place, four smaller schools that have just amalgamated, and working with three-four other women as the central group doing enrolments. Be very busy, they need more people. I liked my interviewer, who I think would be my boss. The pay’s better than anything I’ve had (I’ve always been on lowish clerical wages) and importantly, my interviewer/maybe boss and her boss both come in by train, and know what very long train commutes are like (mine’s 90 minutes, theirs are longer).

    Not that being out of work bothers me activity-wise; I like being at home. Only trouble is that Newstart doesn’t pay much, even with a carer’s allowance on top.

    @Tony!, belated congratulations on the job!

    On the attraction thing azhael raised:

    So having preferences that ‘happen’ to match common societal value judgements? Basically, that’s being human. Nothing to have shame over.

    Thanks for saying this. I think I know it on some level, but it’s nice to hear. Sometimes I feel bad for not being able to be attracted to a greater diversity of men.

    Sometimes I get alarmed when “knowing where your preferences come from is a good thing” gets used by some (not here!) to morph into “so why aren’t you interested in fucking MEEEEEEyoubigot”. Do guys get that sort of pressure? I’ve seen women get it. It skeeves me out: wherever those preferences (or outright orientation) come from, one’s boundaries remain absolute.

    azhael, you are soooo right about Facebook. I lasted two weeks before their data mining freaked me out and I closed my account.

    @Ogvorbis, that’s horrible, I’m so sorry.

    @Giliell, hours later, hope you and everyone in your building is okay!

    @CaitieCat

    As John Oliver said: “Ah yes, because nothing says Scottish independence like a millionaire Australian anti-Semite on horseback.” :)

    Noooooooooooo don’t blame him on us! He’s American, they just lived here a while! ::hides under desk::

  460. Rowan vet-tech says

    Mellow, I won’t stop looking but even a potential home is awesome news for this little bansidhe boy. If your partner wants some photos of the beastie, I am more than happy to provide.

  461. The Mellow Monkey says

    Rowan, pics would be great! You can send them to yellow mellow monkey sans spaces through the Google thing and then I can let you know what he decides.

  463. JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitterness says

    Arghlerbarklefuckitallomgargggggggg.

    [Stupid fucking TL;DR whine incoming]

    I am seriously frustrated and doubting myself so much right now. There’s this stupid thing I’m trying to write and I feel like I could use a fellow book blogger friend to talk about it. Yet I have none of those and just emailing the ones I follow feels extremely awkward and weird. Like “hey, you don’t know me but let me bother you for some help through some rambling nonsense”.

    I’ve tried making a comment about it here but took it out because it sounded stupid and there are actual writers here. And it’s not just that comment either. For the last two days I’ve been writing comments and then deleting them. I just keep thinking shut up dumbfuck no one cares. At first it was just automatic, then I realized what I was doing and that stupid voice inside my head popped up to supply reasons why.

    I’ve lost like any interest in fun things. But at least I’m also unable to just lay around like during my really bad depressive slumps. So I’ve been productive in cleaning the apartment piece by piece. Yet unable to tackle the really big stuff like our closet (OMFG) and Roomie’s room aka living room. So the house in general still looks like shit. There’s still mom’s crap piled in the front room as well and the shopping cart we use for groceries and Little One’s bike and the vacuum and shit. So it looks like a mess no matter what I do. Sort it and stack it? Fucked the next day somehow. There’s 5 animals and 3 people. Then mom’s stupid little dog keeps pooping on the floor no matter what we do. God, she needs to get her shit together because being her kennel and storage unit is fucking me up.

    (I don’t think I’ll ever get over being fuck by CPS because my room at the last shelter was trashed because I was MOVING. That woman picked apart everything and told me she would’ve taken Little One away if we weren’t moving the next day. Now nothing ever feels good enough and I know there’s some problems with needing to laundry more (That costs money assholes and doing in the tub is hard and still doesn’t measure up.) but whatever. I’m a terrible mother who’s kid should be taken away since the house is lived in and clothes aren’t up to par)

    Then there’s me worrying about our food budget like always. Even though it always works out and we’ve gotten so much better with cooking meals (I do it too now, I’ve like actually cooked every night this week). But there’s still 3 weeks left til we get more and it doesn’t ever feel like enough.

    Then there’s me avoiding Landlord at the bus stop morning and afternoon because that’s just gotten awkward as hell. We’ve got your guys money so we can pay the full amount on the 22nd second but damn if she doesn’t keep laying on. “There’s two bidders for this place, better get squared up so I can put it a good word with the new owners and try to keep our two payment arrangement going!” Like seriously? You know our situation, you’ve told me so many times so just quit it already. I worry about everything enough as it is.

    Then there’s this stupid thing with Little One’s teacher where she’s stuck reading little kids books to read one everyday and fill out a form, which has killed her enthusiasm almost about reading her new chapter books. Like “I did my reading, check! Time to play!” so she’s just been reading those chapter books on the weekends where I can conveniently forget the form and let her read as she pleases. She’s reading bigger books! She’s learning and loves it! Let her fucking read it and put it on the homework so she’s rewarded such an accomplishment! But then I get the finger wagging “Children need to read at least twenty minutes everyday and in the way we say because fuck you, that’s why. Stop slacking off, shame on you.”

    Ugh. I know this is all stupid whining. I know we’re lucky and owe for getting rent payed and not kicked out. I am grateful. But it feels like removing that one huge, giant weight as just lead to an avalanche of little annoying pebbles.

    Godfuckingdamnit.

  464. hamilton says

    Um… Halp?
    I wish to subscribe, so as to become ad-less in my lurking. But I can only find the donate button.

  465. Rob Grigjanis says

    hamilton @464: Don’t you see the ‘GET FTB AD-FREE’ near the top left corner of the page? If it’s not obvious, do an edit-find for ‘get ftb’.

  466. chigau (違う) says

    JAL
    re: writing
    You are one of our best.
    Don’t ever doubt yourself on that score.
    re: Little One reading
    Keep up the good fight.
    Don’t let The System kill Little’s joy of reading
    re: everything in between
    *sigh*
    I have hugs.

  467. hamilton says

    Rob Grigjanis

    I use my iPhone to view, well, everything interwebby right now, so I don’t see the same page format.
    BUT.
    Pushing random buttons got me to my profile settings, and there it was!! Ad-subscribe.

    Thanks.

  468. Rowan vet-tech says

    Jal Hugs if and when needed. I can also supply kitten pictures or baby snake pictures for stress relief if required.

  469. rq says

    Cait, upthread
    That really sucks about the breathing hitch – here’s to hoping it’s nothing serious! And good luck with that muscle. :/

  471. says

    2kittehs @459:

    Sometimes I get alarmed when “knowing where your preferences come from is a good thing” gets used by some (not here!) to morph into “so why aren’t you interested in fucking MEEEEEEyoubigot”. Do guys get that sort of pressure? I’ve seen women get it. It skeeves me out: wherever those preferences (or outright orientation) come from, one’s boundaries remain absolute.

    I fully understand what you mean by “why won’t you fuck me if you understand where your preferences come from”, but I haven’t faced that before. I think that’s because I’ve never had any kind of discussion with anyone in meatspace remotely *close* to what we’ve discussed around here.

  474. 2kittehs says

    JAL, I don’t know you, but that isn’t stupid whining, you’ve got a barrel of shit emptying on you. I wish I had helpful ideas, but I’ll send internet sympathy hugs, for whatever they’re worth.

    General: had a potential bit of good news just now. I was up at the vet collecting Freya’s tablets (she has kidney disease plus hyperthyroidism) and mentioned that she’s gone off the Hill’s kidney diet she was on. Didn’t surprise the nurse, that stuff is pretty bland and cats usually don’t care much for it. She gave me a couple of sample packs of Royal Canin kidney diet, which is TUNA! Now if Miss Tuna-loving Freya goes for that, we could be on a good thing. Our vet doesn’t carry it in stock, but they do order it for clients. Fingers crossed.

  475. says

    Hee. Nixie gives me little banner ads on the Yahoo mail page – the latest was something about “the most tatted celebrities”. Cue mental picture of famous people covered in fine thread lace…

    I don’t think that was quite what was meant, but I like my version better.

  476. rq says

    And *hugs* for JAL. You’re actually pretty impressive, in how awesome you are, even with a shitload of obstacles stacked against you. That’s just my opinion, but seriously… don’t shut up, you’re not a dumbfuck. Little One is lucky to have a parent like you, and holy shit but a teacher who told me to keep my child reading easy books just because? That would piss me off, too. That’s stupid, and the teacher of all people should know a lot better.

  477. Rowan vet-tech says

    2kittehs: Here’s hoping! Are you also doing subbies on your kitty, or just the diet? I’ve been semi-pondering shoving my somewhat feral girl kitty onto the food preemptively because, despite being a tech, there’s no way I will ever be able to do SQs on her unless she is actively dying, the little brat.

  478. 2kittehs says

    Thanks, Rowan!

    Are subbies the subcutaneous thingies? My vet (who’s USian) mentioned them, but they’re not really a thing here, so I don’t know much about them. She was aiming for diet first, as the most effective method. I imagine it’d be fairly easy to do them in the sense of Fribs not making much fuss, but I’d be concerned about me not doing it right.

    Given Fribs is 18, I’m just hoping to keep her comfortable for however long she’s got. Though who knows, she might yet surprise us all and beat Magnus’s record of 22.

    Your kitty sounds like my departed Katie. Tiny tabby but so strong our tough hairy macho vet announced “It’s impossible to pill this cat” (yes D, we know, that’s why we brought her up here for you to try it) and the only vet who ever did manage to pill her bragged about it through the whole clinic. :P

  479. Rowan vet-tech says

    2kittehs Subbies are the subcutaneous fluids. They help a LOT and can keep kitties going for months or even years longer with good quality of life. I’ve told Rowan-the-cat that she is NOT allowed to get kidney disease or diabetes because I wouldn’t be able to treat her. She’s only kinda-maybe allowed to get hyperthyroidism because while I can crush a pill onto her food, hyperthyroidism often masks kidney insufficiency.

    And that, to wildly tangent, is my pet hypothesis on why cats get hyperthyroidism so often; it boosts their kidney function which might in turn allow a male to sire another year or two of kittens before the kidneys poop out entirely.

  480. 2kittehs says

    Rowan stoopud hyperthyroidism, then, waiting till Fribs is 18 to kick in (never mind that she was spayed as a kitten)! :P

    I’m grateful Fribs is easy to pill. She’ll sometimes do the sneaky chipmunk cheek and spit, but mostly the pill popper lets me get the things far enough back for her to have to swallow them. She’s on 2 ½ tablets a day.

    Rowan-the-cat sounds even more like Katie in being generally hard or impossible to treat. Home treatment didn’t really arise for her, though – she developed liver cancer that just swept through her; it was a fortnight from diagnosis to her passing over.

  481. Rowan vet-tech says

    Ouchies. My 2nd favorite kitty (after Parsnip, the foster kitten with early, transient hydrocephalus that caused just enough brain damage to make him uncoordinated and unusually sweet) was 13 and an in-remission diabetic when I adopted him. I had him for 2 years and then one day his abdomen swelled up like a balloon. Ultrasound revealed carcinomatosis that had managed to avoid major internal organs which is why we had no earlier warning. He was gone 2 days later. :/ *hugs offered*.

    Because I’m cursed when it comes to pets I’m pretty sure that, to spite me, Rowan will develop heart disease, high blood pressure, hyperthyroidism, diabetes, kidney disease AND cancer, all at about the same time. I’ve yet to have a normal animal. I dream of it though….

  482. says

    Good morning
    Seriously need to get shit doing this morning.
    Yes, I’m in one of the “let my lie in the corner, the dust wil settle” phases, too.
    Next week internship starts, so that’ll get me going.
    I hate these phases. #1’s refusal to do maths is killing me, ’cause I’m out of acceptable meassures.
    Positive incentive? Check!
    Negative consequences? Check!
    Talking sensibly as to why she has to do it and that I don’t even have a choice in this either? Check!
    Now, locking her up in the pantry until she’s done is NOT an option, so I’m kind of out of ideas. And what’s really killing me is that she can really DO IT. On Tuesday she had to show her gran how those exercises work, ’cause I had to go to work and she did one (they’re always sets of three) in, what, 20 seconds? Only that her average time is 10 minutes. She has no free time left. I need to cancel her ballett classes. And I have no clue where the switch is.

    +++
    JAL
    Does she have to answer questions?
    I have stopped checking #1′ reading homework. I think she does it and if she doesn’t do it she’ll have the text read silently before the others find the right page. No spoons left, no need to practise.

    +++
    Hugs to Caitie
    Here’s a spoon.
    It’s made out of chocolate

    ++++
    re: Butler
    Yes, I find the philosophical approach a bit difficult, too, since I’m so much used to talk data (I’m seriously considering to do that for the thesis, too. Add some actual studies), but I think we’re having a misunderstanding here. It’s not about individual people’s sex lives and attractions, but about the social construct of mandatory heterosexuality. I think it makes a lot of sense if you look at how men and women are said to be oh so different but also complementary and shit, and how homosexual couples get asked “who’s the man and who’s the woman”.
    Oh, and masturbation vs sex: I always found those things to be very different. It’s a bit like asking “what do you prefer, wine or spaghetti?” Sure, both things are somewhat similar, but also not.

  483. Crip Dyke, Right Reverend Feminist FuckToy of Death & Her Handmaiden says

    JAL:

    I wanted to add my voice to those saying, in various different ways, “I’ve always been a fan of your work here.” I’m only one person, but I’m not the only one saying that here. Add us up. We’re a sizable group. And we’re not necessarily the worst writers and thinkers amongst the Horde.

    So you can appeal to authority and to numbers when you shout right back at that voice that wants you to delete your comments. Fallacies: if you can’t beat them, double them.

  485. 2kittehs says

    Rowan, two days, I can’t even. *Hugs accepted and return hugs offered*

    My sister would nod understandingly about all your sick kitties. It’s dogs with her (she loves corgi crosses) and every last one has had some bizarre and expensive medical condition. We’ve been lucky, most of our kitties have been robust and been with us well into their teens.

    Parsnip is a gorgeous name for a kitty.

    Just offered Fribs some of the Royal Canin tuna-flavoured stuff and … she licked the gravy (?) off and left it.

    AARRRGH

  486. rq says

    Giliell
    Oh, homework problems? You, too?
    Except ours is rushing: yes, Eldest is bright and has a fine hand, and he does things pretty quickly anyway – but he rushes, and then everything is ugly. Tell him not to rush? Sure. For about 3 letters.
    Oh, and this is, of course, after the big discussion about why he should be doing homework anyway and that he just can’t possibly because he’s soooo tiiiiiired (2 minutes earlier running circles around the house with his brothers, but you know, tired) and, hey, it’s only homework anyway, nothing important!!! *sigh* Sucks the life right out of me.

  487. PatrickG says

    Just helped a moderately drunk mostly-blind person get a cab home after he was dumped on the curb by his formerly genial cab-mates when they found out he was “homo” (his word). On his first night out after some form of reconstructive surgery which gave him partial sight in one eye (blindness due to accident) which let him actually go out without a cane.

    According to him, they made the cabbie pull over and kicked him out of the car. Threw in some gratuitous insults about his Mexican heritage to boot. He’d been in the cab for several miles and had no idea where he was, due to y’know, impaired vision and being unable to read street signs.

    The fuck is wrong with people? :( At least I was there to hear him run into a car (setting off the alarm) and ask for help from anyone who was around. Yay insomnia, I guess.

    After the fact, I wish I’d given him my number so he could let me know he got home safely.

    Really just posting this here because I want to share it, partner is asleep, and none of my friends would appreciate a 2:30am call… fortunately the internet never sleeps, and these here parts are sympathetic.

  488. says

    Spoons, I need.
    Urgently
    College just mailed me that “oh, you didn’t register for the next term, sort things out quickkly or we’ll kick you out”
    I fucking registered on fucking time. It’s the third fucking time I’m having trouble and NEVER because I messed something up.
    I can’t even…

  489. bassmike says

    I’m pleased that you were around to help PatrickG . I don’t know how people could leave someone in a position like that.

    Giliell & rq you’re worrying me about homework now and my daughter’s only 2 1/2!

    Anne @435. I also find that, after exposure to Pharyngula etc I can’t help but notice all the sexism/racism/homphobia/transphobia……the list goes on. However, I think noticing it is better than the alternative.

    FossilFishy I get exactly what you mean about amateurs and music. I can be a really beautiful thing.

  490. carlie says

    FossilFishy at 453 – I feel the same way at those concerts, the high school ones especially. They’re just so darned full of hope and expectations for the future. I feel like a dolt because it almost makes me cry every time, it’s so beautiful.

    Apologies for not participating more. been surfing a low-grade depressive wave combined with respiratory illness for awhile now, neither serious, just enough to sap the energy or will to do anything to the point of needing to pull back and conserve as much as possible (and the Harris/Dawkins thing has eaten up a lot, but at least served as a diversionary outlet for people closer to me with similar attitudes that I can’t afford to yell about quite so directly).

    2kittehs – speaking as a complete non-expert in animal handling, subcutaneous injections aren’t hard to do, technically. The amount the cat struggles will vary, but if you have one person to bundle and hold the cat and one to inject, it goes easier. We spent almost a year and a half giving our cat subcut. injections almost every day, and it wasn’t bad. We did end up finding that the gauge of needle made a big difference in how easy it was (thinner needle was much better, even though the whole drip time then took longer). The worst part was just the emotional hurdle of the fact that she needed it done, not the procedure itself.

  491. pHred says

    Morning (or evening or happy lunch – adjust for appropriate time zone)

    Random chocolate donations to anyone in need of a virtual hit. (I would provide a picture but I suspect that the NPR report I only caught the lead of suggesting that pictures of food will satisfy hunger just as well as food is grossly in error. It certainly never works that way for me. )

    Anyhow – I was wondering if anyone else has read the comments that got tagged onto the end of the Here we go again thread by Falken’s Maze and if anyone better acquainted with the situation has any reaction.

    Unexpectedly religious bovine – they would put a different spin on some thing. I only saw them because I still had that page loaded on this computer – they came in so late that I don’t know how many people noticed them.

  492. opposablethumbs says

    PatrickG, I’m glad you were there. And those people who turfed the bloke out? Scum of the fucking earth. I cannot get my head round how anyone could be such a scrap of shit as that.

  493. 2kittehs says

    carlie, thanks for that! It’s the thought of accidentally hurting her because of not knowing what I’m doing that bothers me, rather than the idea of injecting her at all. Medical procedures and having to do stuff for my kitties don’t bother me in themselves. Fribs isn’t much of a squirmer, but she’s frail these days with so little flesh on her. That’s the other maddening thing about the kidney disease. She’d been on kitten food to build her up after the hyperthyroid-induced weight loss, and it was working, but of course kitten food has all the wrong stuff as far as kidney disease is concerned, while renal food doesn’t help her regain weight … :;grinds teeth::

  494. carlie says

    2kittehs – it’s all in the scruff of the neck, so doesn’t bother them much at all. Ours acclimated to it to the point that after about a week, she didn’t even flinch (and using the skinny needles really helps with that too, they don’t notice it as much). Ours was kidney disease, too. And plumping them up with fluids makes them feel so much better, it gets easier once you see how they’re more comfortable after. Our real battle was eating – we had to syringe-feed her for quite awhile, and she hated that with every neuron in her little brain. Injections were fine, but no not the warm yummy wet food no no no. Go figure.

  495. birgerjohansson says

    “Are you stressing out your cat? How to spot the signs” http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2014/sep/16/are-you-stressing-out-your-cat-spot-the-signs
    — — — —
    Schizophrenia not a single disease but multiple genetically distinct disorders http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-09-schizophrenia-disease-multiple-genetically-distinct.html New research shows that schizophrenia isn’t a single disease but a group of eight genetically distinct disorders, each with its own set of symptoms.
    — — — —
    The Subjectivity of Consciousness and the Illusion of Self http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-subjectivity-of-consciousness-with-dr-sam-harris

  497. 2kittehs says

    carlie – oh, it’s in the scruff? That wouldn’t be hard at all [she said, probably jinxing herself in the process].

    Did your kitty only like dry food, or was it that particular wet food she objected to? Fribs is a wet-food girl – just as well given she’s got about six teeth left. Though we have noticed her pinching some of Maddie’s dry food lately, which is funny since there’s a running joke that Miss Tubby’s claims of some other cat stealing her food aren’t to be believed. :P

  498. The Mellow Monkey says

    My newest great-niece was born just after midnight here! Being rather exhausted, I just went to bed when I heard my niece was in labor so I only got confirmation of the birth at around six this morning. I figured if something awful happened I’d be told, but there wasn’t anything to gain by staying up or rushing to harass somebody with a massive internal wound the size of a placenta as soon as she gave birth. I’m happy that a healthy, wanted baby was born and I’m happy my niece is in as good of shape as she can be after that, but the whole “birth as spectator sport” thing kind of leaves me confused.

    Now I am off to see the poor, exhausted mama and her mushy little human loaf.

  499. Nick Gotts says

    Off to get the “Yes” vote out! Then tonight, I’m a “count officer”, making sure there’s no funny business going on when the votes are counted, so I’ll be up all night. Won’t be able to give a running commentary, unfortunately, as it’s illegal to communicate anything about how the count’s going to anyone outside the counting hall.