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Pharyngula
Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal
This is the lounge. You can discuss anything you want, but you will do it kindly. Don’t be afraid of the bear.
Status: Heavily Moderated; Previous thread
Portia, give Walton a chance; he’s in final exams and he’s unutterably consciencious. :)
(I can give you my take: the one is an epistemic philosophy, the other a social philosophy — and most adherents of the latter are not epistemologically-gifted)
JM:
Heh. I’m in no rush, won’t lose any sleep over the question : )
Your answer both explains the discrepancy and makes me smirk, so thank you.
—–
It’s raining hard now. Flood warning ’round these parts til dawn.
I just realized there’s a crisis pregnancy center in my area. Ugh. Nope, their website says there’s two. Trying to see if it’s explicitly connected to a church or something. So far the worst of it is a long list of harmful effects of abortion. It’s obviously fearmongering, but at least so far it’s technically accurate.
In local news: ‘Average’ Aussie is a 37yo mum of two
One more (and last one for now, I promise!): Mayor furious as Government removes rainbow crossing
So I’m home sick, and screwing about with facebook games. One of them is Game of Thrones. You hire sworn swords and send them out on missions. You intersect with the main story as if you were some minor noble present but off-screen. So I’m looking to hire a new sworn sword and what comes up on offer includes a bearded black guy in a turban & robes, named “Brown Moore”.
WTF?
Actually, I’m pretty sure this is a randomiser accident. I have a black guy named Karl Swann, and another on offer named Mohor Ironmaker. Whoopsie!
Feel better, Alethea. That…is quite the coincidental moniker.
He’s a really good character, too. But even if I could afford to hire him I wouldn’t, it would creep me out too much. Eh, the list will refresh in a few hours and it will be gone.
Meanwhile: thanks for the well-wishes, and let me add mine:
Get well soon to Caine.
Good luck to Crip Dyke.
Penn Jillette is a libertarian douchebag even when he’s guest starring on The West Wing.
Hm.
Hey, Alethea, at least you’re only home sick rather than homesick and home sick.
(What?)
Hey, thanks everyone. Survived. Bad news though: up here in the Great White North, they use an entirely different constitution than the one in the US. Who knew?
Which, of course, wouldn’t be so bad except that there’s this complicated scheme where we get to bring in our notes in electronic format (allows for easier searching, changing font sizes when your eyes get tired, doesn’t cover up your keyboard) and then they copy your thumb drive to prevent cheating (well, to catch it after the fact, really, but knowing what happens prevents cheating).
your ever-lovin’ Crip dyke uses a mac, and the school only has windoze. So, I busily convert every single file this morning and pack my thumb drive and go off to take the exam.
Every single file except for one sub-folder, which, by chance, I missed.
That’s okay. I don’t keep files I use all the time in there. Mostly they’re files of info that’s available on the internet, and internet versions have hyper-linkys making them a bit more usable.
But, you see, you can’t use the internet while you’re taking an exam -too easy to cheat. So the schools computers are internet disabled (no wifi card and not plugged in).
So those files, which I really don’t use too often, weren’t available to me.
One of them was the constitution of Canada.
yeah. So, right now, after a 6 hour exam and 3 hours of having kids pounce all over my sore, tired body, I’m drinking scotch and praying that my paraphrase of s92(15) was close enough as to make no nevah-mind.
Still, show up without a constitution to your constitutional law exam & you really find out how much you’ve learned about your new home’s founding document. For some bizarre reason, I could remember the gist of s92(16), s92(15), s92(13), s92(10), s91(2), s91(7), s91(15), and s91(27) all at once, even well enough to compare their effects on overlapping heads of power and the resulting conflicts of laws between federal and provincial jurisdictions.
OR…
I just thought I remembered and I screwed everything up. Not brave enough to look until after I finish my 2nd scotch & I just started my first.
On the plus side, I tied for the highest grade in the school on the Fall con law final, which will help me if I bomb this one. …
On the downside, that’s because con law is what I want to do & it seems like getting a decent grade in this class might be relevant to future employers when I’m job hunting. …
On the plus side, hey, lookie here! Scotch!
Crip Dyke:
I’m sure even without your notes you did far better than enough people to make your grade shine. Congrats on the stellar grade last semester! That’s hugely impressive. Have that next scotch and maybe you’ll believe me when I say I’m sure you did great.
…and believe me when I say I’m jealous that you got electronic notes.
I swear I made stuff up on the Iowa bar exam. Amended the U.S. Constitution in one of my essays, I think. Still passed. :D
Oh, and in my experience, when they particularly notice a lower grade (not that you’ll have one) that they are interested in, they ask you to explain it. Maybe they’ll give you the chance, should it become necessary.
Crip Dyke,
Ouch!
So, it was a true test!
(I remind you that D-K works both ways; I quote: “One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision”)
Melatonin is kicking in. G’night!
Personally, I welcome our new tractor overlords (they seem easy to outrun, not to mention are large an unwieldy).
And if I ever get my excavator’s license, I’ll attempt such shenanigans.
+++
I hope your pancreatitis is better soon, Caine!
Crip Dyke, congrats on being finished, and I’m sure your memory was fine! :)
Giliell
I’ve seen my kids do the same kind of thing – looking back and them slamming into door/wall. :( Eldest got a giant black bump right in the middle of his forehead when he was 2 from something like that, it looked terrible, but we kept a close eye on him and he was fine.
I hope your daughter feels better soon!! (I hate the coloured bruises the most – seriously? green-yellow-purple-red-black are all possible at the same time? But at least when it all goes yellow I know it’ll be gone soon!)
Wow.
I guess I had a lot to get out. I haven’t written a post that long in a while. Of course it helps that I’m on my laptop, and thus can type out responses (largely bereft of typos) many times faster than I can on my phone
here, if anyone is bored and wants a long read
****
Good night Portia!
****
Crip Dyke:
Glad you survived. Hope your drink is good.
HA!
I was this >.< close to adding "I wonder if rq is awake" at the end of my last comment. Lo and behold, who appears?
I suppose good morning is in order for you (technically for me too, as it is 12:42 AM here in Pensacola).
Long day was loooooooong.
As in, my day makes Longcat look like Tinykitten.
And I feel like I got run over by Tankcat.
Group was kinda… heavy… today. Like, emotionally, you know?
Anywho, *big pile of assorted comfies* to be distributed as desired, I’m ready to tune out for the night.
…as I then proceed to the FTB mainpage to see what’s going on.
So much for “tuning out”.
Tony
I know it’s morning when I see you signing off. ;)
Or maybe you should know it’s time for bed when I sign on again… Heh. :) (And yes, I will read your post.)
Portia
Flood warnings? Watch out for these creatures! (And stay safe!)
WMDKitty
There’s going to bed, and then there’s going to bed without a dose of FtB-induced insomnia. ;)
Tony
I’m only in the first part of your post about privilege, but this was found on my younger sibling’s facebook page this morning, and I don’t know what to make of it. But it seems a bit related to your post.
rq
This place is totally my “crack”, if you know what I mean.
rq:
Not only is it related to my post, it strikes to the core! Oh, and it is nearly bedtime for me. Imagine that.
WMDKitty:
I know what you mean. One day when internet is mine at home again, I will probably be indulging in the crack too.
WMDKitty
I completely, totally, absolutely know what you mean.
Tony
Does that mean you’re going to bed?
rq:
I have to work in the morning, so I * should * go to bed…
Having just read your post over on the other thread, Tony, may I say that if I could I would arrange for you to have a laptop and connection available to you at all times! That was very clearly and eloquently put.
(though given the nature of people and the internet, the explanation of why it is not all about discrimination against straight white menz is going to have to be given again and again and again …)
Tony
I agree with opposablethumbs: that was a great post in its entirety. It should be bookmarked for easy copy-pasting every time White Men complain that they lack privilege.
Also, you should go to bed.
But this is FtB.
DUNDUNDUNNNNN!!!
Great comment, Tony
I think that some people have so little in terms of personal accomplishments that the idea that whatever good treatment they get isn’t because they deserve it and earned it but because they’re white/male/cis/hetero… deeply threatens them.
It’s a bit like Schopenhauer (whos in general an asshole) and his observation about national pride: You’ve got to be a pretty poor sod if the thing you’re most proud of is something you share with millions of other people by accident.
+++
Very interesting. My neighbour has a 1 room apartment but two TV sets (he’s renovating and put everything into the hallway)
+++
On a happy note:
I DID it. I created the perfect microwave chocolate cakes.
I was a bit disappointed with the mug-cakes I’d tried. So I hexperimented and now I have them:
For 6-8 silicone muffin forms
60g butter
100g chocolate
->melt in microwave
add
4tbs milk
1 egg
->whisk
add
3 tbs flour
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
3 tbs sugar
a pinch of salt
2 tbs coacoa powder
->mix in
Put one not-heaped tbs of dough into each muffin form, put them all on a plate, put into microwave and bake for 2-3 min, depending on your microwave.
Serve hot with icecream
I’m so trying that soon, Giliell! But I have to ask (since we don’t have a microwave): I’ve been reading a lot about these single-serving cakes/cookies/etc., and most are ok being done in the oven. Is it the same for these?
Also,
I giggled – did you use magic? ;) (Love the typo.)
Giliell
Can I just nuke it all as one cake?
Also, is this idiot-proof? (Because I can fuck up boiling water.)
Also, uh… What’s the closest conversion for metric into, like, tablespoons or cups?
Okay, bed.
rq and WMD Kitty
Uhm, I don’t know. I made about 4 batches of different versions in the microwave and this came out great. I think it should be OK bot in one and in the oven, no reason why it shouldn’t be. It’s very easy and simple (only remember to melt chocolate and butter on a low level in the micro, burned chocolate makes people cry)
Oh, and no typo ;)
So you did use magic.
I knew it.
1 metric = 3.This is a universal rule. Except when it’s 17.
‘We have a huge problem no one knows how to solve. Let’s have the person who came to work here 4 months ago (with no previous work experience and no idea about the big problem) head the big meeting where we try to figure it out!’
Is this normal? Because I think I should start panicking now.
Fingers crossed I’m allowed to reschedule it for next week when boss will be here.
I do not have sound, but the title presumably says it all: John Lydon tells female Australian TV presenter: ‘When a man is talking, do not interrupt’ (video). (Mr Lydon is perhaps best known as “John Rotten” of the archetypal(?) punk rock band Sex Pistols.)
Ok, I guess I’ll just have to stand there and try not to look like a complete idiot, without actually “heading” anything. I can do that.
Beatrice
Good luck!!
WMDKitty
Do you mean the 60g for the butter? That’s about a 1/4 cup. Don’t know about the chocolate, I don’t know my gram-to-ounce conversions so well.
I know I’ve been complaining about the snow, but here is some proof of spring. Yes, things are looking up for all that dormant green stuff outside!
Beatrice,
Do you have enough time before the meeting to go around and talk to the others about the issue? They can presumably bring you somewhat up-to-speed.
I would, however, suggest trying to verify (or get independent verification of) any “facts” you are told — not because anyone is necessarily deliberately lying / misleading — since when an issue is not understood, the allegedly-known “facts” can often be simply wrong, the result of group-think, or misunderstood / misinterpreted.
In fact, an attempt to avoid / break the dangerous cycle of group-thinking could be a reason for bringing in an “outsider” (or “newbie”): Ask questions, challenge assumptions, be polite (avoid seeming to be arrogant, …), and work to understand the different hypotheses.
If you look up, don’t you get hit in the face with this falling “snow” stuff? Of course, if you look down, the green stuff leaps up, Spring-ing into yer face. Perhaps best to stay in bed. hiding completely under the covers.
(Scurries off to lunch…)
blf
Concrete bunker works best, really. Ideally – lead-lined.
Oh dear god this game is impossible and I can’t stop playing it and it has kickass music and why is it so difficult FGHFGF stupid bouncing things get out of my no that conveyor belt seriously why is the spike there veni vidi vici vvvvvv
(this rant brought to you by the game VVVVVV)
blf,
Thanks for the advice! I’m reading all the documents I can get my hands on.
There’s no one I can ask, because of the combination of illness/vacation time, and the people in the meeting are going to be from private companies we work with. It seems that my job will really be just to get them all together and arguing, so I probably don’t have to worry as much as I am inclined to. Plus, a colleague will probably be there. Maybe.
It’s just embarrassing to me that I know nothing about this (it’s a project that started before I came and no one involved me in it until now).
(Also, I’m anxious about just about everything all the time, so getting suddenly thrown into something I am completely ignorant about is very scary. Even though I know I’m probably overreacting, I can’t help it)
No, Katherine Lorraine, you are not sucking me in. I will not follow that link.
I will not.
@rq:
Do it. The game is seriously awesome.
Phenomenally difficult, but not to the point where it’s frustrating because there are checkpoints scattered throughout the game (sometimes in the same room) that will help if you die. You can literally try the same area over and over and over again until you’ve beaten it, and then you get to the next part that kills you.
I have over 1000 deaths in my first playthrough, and I’m not even finished yet.
WMDKitty
This page is handy for conversions. http://www.bestrecipes.com.au/site/conversions.html
(There’s a better one somewhere that also gives conversions/ equivalents for cups and spoons, which are also different, and lets us outside the US understand what a “stick” of butter is, but I seem to have mislaid it.)
Katherine
I see what you mean. I’m just going through the demo version (no PayPal for full version). :/ This will be a while. :)
@rq:
One of the most frustrating areas is called Veni Vidi Vici. There’s a shiny trinket in the room you start, but since you can’t jump over a TINY block, you have to adjust the gravity. Well… just watch.
… Holy shit!
Beatrice
I could assign my @551 to you as well. :/ *hugs*, and I sincerely hope all you have to do is get them arguing, and maybe do some mediation (you know, as in Shut up or Take turns speaking, you’re next!). I hope they’re a manageable lot!
I do not envy you at all.
… mmm cake. Plain flour or self-raising, Giliell?
.
also, ulp, DaughterSpawn is in the train as I type, on her way to another placement interview. To be one of next year’s placement students assisting with some pretty cool microbiology research (at baby-student level, of course). There are four possible projects, one of which involves having fun making bacteria bioluminescent. All of which are helping work on pathogens (drug-resistance, immune response, reagent production …). Tentacles crossed … !!!
opposablethumbs
Thumb-holding for DaughterSpawn! The projects sound fascinating, I did similar stuff in uni and several summers in a row (the drug-resistance, immune response, reagent production part, no bioluminescence for me). Amazing experience. I hope she gets in!
Beatrice,
Hum… I’d consider sending them some e-mail introducing yourself and proposing a phone call, saying that you’d like to get a synopsis beforehand of what they think the issue is (if they have any idea), what they think the proximate-causes are (if they have any idea), what they think the root-cause(s) is/are (if they have any idea), and if what solution(s) they propose (if they have any idea). And ask for any recommendations on background material that you and the others should, in their opinion, be familiar with. (Then share those recommendations with follow-up e-mail(s).)
I very much suggest making it clear in the e-mail and subsequent phone calls that it’s perfectly Ok if they don’t have any idea for what the problem is, and/or the proximate- or root-causes, and/or the solutions. No-one “knows” everything! E.g., you whilst you are currently uncertain of the issue and other points, you are confident it won’t be properly understood and resolved without their invaluable help and co-operation.
As far as the meeting itself, whilst it depends what you mean by “arguing”, I’d suggest a more neutral term — disagreeing — and that two goals of the meeting are (1) To understand what the points of disagreement are, and (2) To generate ideas and a plan for resolving those disagreements.
Right. So this “snow” stuff, and the Spring-ing about the place green things, clog the vents, break the water and sewage pipes, and then call for reinforcements. Hence, before you asphyxiate or succumb to thirst or Cholera, watch out for incoming meteors, volcanic eruptions, and, of course, peas.
However, what may help is a tinfoil hat.
blf
Yup, something like that. Looks like a plan.
+++
This is me, eating fresh onion sandwiches before choir practice. /evil
blf,
Thanks… A lot isn’t really applicable to the situation, but it’s good advice and I’ll keep it in mind. :)
(That would be for blf @556, although the ideas at 555 seem pretty solid, too!)
Oops! What a Blooming mistake: Irish coin misquotes line from Ulysses: “Central Bank of Ireland gaffe causes 10,000 €10 coins honouring Irish modernist writer to be minted with an extra word”.
I’ve never read the book myself, and have always understood it to be rather notoriously difficult. Assuming that is correct-ish, I’m not really surprised. Here, for instance, is the “correct” version of the text reported as misquoted:
I have essentially no idea what the character (Stephen Dedalus, apparently) is mumbling about. I suspect you could insert, remove, and rearrange the words without changing the seeming-oddness of it…
Kimchi-Baby The Insignificant in North Korea isn’t the only paranoid government nutter (and in other news, fish are wet), Iran plans ‘Islamic Google Earth’:
I assume the Earth will be flat with four corners, and “here be peas” or equivalent essentially everywhere but Persia. And the compass rose will point to Mecca.
Gah! The phrase “(the italicized […] are my redactions / edits, all others are in the original):” above is obviously misplaced, it was supposed to be before the
<borkedquote>. Wee dosn’t dos tinie offerrerringings twoo Tpyos!Years ago, I had a football video game that would make random names for “new” players being drafted. And there was a running back named “Speedy Blackman.” Sadly, I’m not making that up.
Thank you rq! We just this moment rang off as she was getting close to her station; I was going over the projects with her on the phone (sadly I have absolutely none of the relevant expertise; my role is to be the “educated” layperson, ask her about the tech stuff, talk a little bit about real-life aspects (e.g. of drug resistance) in a general knowledge sort of way – and to parse any convoluted sentences. And be encouraging and calm her down, hopefully :-) ). It would indeed be a very cool experience, though competition to get one of the places will probably be pretty steep.
blf, great advice to Beatrice there. Those look like just the sorts of things that could work brilliantly. And another example of general Hordely wonderfulness, really
I want to say something unequivocally true.
This feeling strikes me from time to time, it pushes up behind my eyes and I blink and have to turn away. It’s an uncomfortable feeling, this pressure prove things, because it’s never about something objective, never something I can evidence.
How the fuck can I prove that I still and always regret that moment all those years ago when I threw back a simple compliment, spinning it with doubt, rage and self-loathing into a hateful, spiteful, barb?
How do I prove that when the soprano and alto begin their decent, trading off chained suspensions in Pergelosi’s Sabat Mater, I hear the tension and release of every human interaction? How do I convey beyond any refutation that it fills me with a calm and measured sadness that is so strangely without regret?
How do I prove that it’s joy that I feel when still watery from breaking the surface of sleep, I suddenly realise that what awoke me was my wife and child laughing themselves breathless in the next room?
How the fuck do I prove this stuff?
You see, I walk around this world of ours in a scratchy fog. I see things right in front of me as if they were hiding just at the edge of my sight, perhaps an artefact of the persistence of vision, perhaps not. Everything has that patina of unreality to it, everything. If I could prove these things, these feelings, to someone else in the same way that I can prove that vaccines are a triumph of human achievement, then perhaps I could myself believe them to be real.
It ought to be enough to express these things and have others accept my sincerity, an ordinary claim demanding ordinary evidence.
But it isn’t.
The bludgeon of my self-doubt has hammered flat my ability to accept that easily, leaving me wide open to this solipsistic bullshit.
I hate this, and proof or no, I hope that that is unequivocally true.
Oh those Japanese
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/04/japanese-girlfriend-coat-hugs-and-whispers-to-lonely-students.html
@Portia
totally lol’d.
Also, 2 of the questions had the standard, “If you feel you need more information to answer a part of this question, specify what information you would need and how it would be useful”.
I was tempted to write: “A copy of the constitution.” 8-P
The literal text of the constitution wasn’t important in very many places, since mostly you’re dealing with the secondary sources, the rules that the court comes up with to decide if X fits whatever scenario is envisaged by a constitutional provision. If you know the test, you know what you need, usually. So it wasn’t completely devastating – but it sure was good for a case of nerves. A whole case. I still have 3 cartons left in the box practically untouched!
FossilFishy
“proof” is for mathematicians.
Keep on keeping on.
And keep telling us, your eloquence is a joy.
I lol’d : )
Sounds like you’re talking yourself out of your nerves, a bit, though. I’ll take a carton off your hands and store it for future use, I’m sure to need it soon. :)
rq
You are on fire with the cute animal pictures this morning. I enjoyed the wet ones gallery :)
—
The rain seems to have stopped. Maybe I can get in a bike ride later.
—
I have to drive across the state by myself tomorrow for a continuing education conference. I hate to spend the money on travel, but this particular one is both free to attend and good for the networking. Sigh. Getting up and driving at 5 won’t be super fun. But the following day I only have to drive 4 hours round trip to see Rachel Maddow liiiiiiiiiiiiiiive! Wooooooot!
Revenge of the Mealworm?
My two favourite lines:
FossilFishy
Your words are proof enough.
Rachel Maddow?
I am so of the jealous.
…..
When I see things like that coming out of Japan, it reminds me of how different sexism is there than here in Canada [and the US]…and also makes me dramatically concerned about nuances of translation. But I want to say, a coat that gives any het guy “the feeling of having a girlfriend” b/c it has actuators that pinch & cinch? b/c a recorded voice says, “I’m sorry. Were you waiting?”
B/c I have a girlfriend, and nice as the hugs are, the feeling of having a girlfriend is a bit different and, at least in my experience, their vocabularies tend to be a bit bigger.
Makes me wonder what products we’re making here that I never notice but that gets promoted on some small company’s site, then picked up by amused Japanese feminists marveling at our sexism. Oy, I shudder to think.
Crip Dyke…on that note…have you heard of the Fleshlight? (Link is SO not safe for…anywhere.)
I should add also that the site appears to have gotten a lot more explicit/illicit than the first time I looked out of morbid curiosity.
I saw Rachel Maddow speak in public once. It was an interesting speech.
More amusing to me was some of the events surrounding the talk:
[Scene: Academic procession. Maddow is in the midst of the academics.]
Someone in the audience: Where is Rachel? Near the Dean?
RM: *turns and waves at speaker*
[Scene: Maddow is speaking about Carry Nation’s “hatchetations”]: “…a hatchet that looked sort of like a labrys.”
Crowd: “Woo!”
[Scene: Maddow finishes her speech, goes to sit down]
Someone in crowd: “I love you, Rachel! Marry me!”
RM: “Is that you, Susan?”
You’re great people, always offering advice and support.
Fossil Fishy
I’m sorry to tell you, but your visum for planet Vulcan has expired ;)
opposablethumbs
Normal flour. I don’t think that self-raising flour has really made it in Germany. But it’s sure better than Jesus who took 3 days to get up again.
+++
Well, I was a bit concerned about sending #1 to daycare today, with that headbump and all, being concerned about her feeling drowsy, having a headache and so on.
Feedback from Kindergarten?
Very cheerful and extremely creative.
Translation: Kept falling asleep (so no hassle to the staff, keeping them cheerful), with her head flopping into the paint pots (thus keeping the other sprogs amused, further reliving stress on the staff).
BBC to play Ding Dong in chart show despite anti-Thatcher Facebook push:
(Giggles…)
@ Portia, Yes. I’ve even held one in real life. I was at a local feminist sex shop [it was run by two women one of whom is a very tenuous acquaintance who always seems to remember me even though I can’t ever think of her name…and she invited me to their grand opening …see what they did there?] and just kind of goggling at all the stuff. And there was a flashlight.
I know, I know, totally and completely unfortunate analogy, and I mean no implications other than that the phsyics is the same, but…
I totally thought, “Oh, it’s like my easy-bake oven! They use a light bulb to warm it up!”
“Like an easy bake oven” was not what the people around me were expecting to hear. i quickly realized that they thought I was associating kids toys with adult toys and tried to backpedal, but there’s no coming back from that one.
Also, I LOVE the kids’ kindergarten
They’re teaching #1 to push back. She’s a bit timid and though she’ll be the first in line for the afternoon-snack, she’ll be frequently the last kid to get a sandwich because all the other kids push past her. And instead of praising her for being kind, they’re encouraging her to stand her ground and push back.
YAY!
Esteleth:
Now I’m even more excited :)
Crip Dyke:
That’s hilarious! Your lightbulb moment wasn’t so bright, eh? (See what I did there? yuk yuk yuk).
…I didn’t even realize there was a lightbulb in there, and now I’m even more squicked out by the thing.
Giliell:
That is awesome! Teaches way more fairness, too. Wonderful that they’re teaching that.
Portia
That link, I’m the last person who’s against sex-toys, but I find it always shows the disturbing rape culture when those for men are portrayed as stand-in women, while those for women are, of course, marketed as toys, not as surrogate-men.
Giliell:
I totally agree. You pinpointed one of the abstract feelings I had about the site. Grossed me out. One of the toys is marketed as being literally one of model’s vaginas. “Buy Sally’s vagina!” …they took Wanda Sykes too literally I guess. *shudder*
@Portia
yeah, the thing makes me uncomfortable, too. On the one hand, I feel awkward complaining b/c hey, queer women have created, or at least giggled over, some interesting things that would seem inhumanly disturbing to certain folks…
no matter how full of win I think they are.
On the other hand, those things are, kinda by definition, not engaging in dehumanization. The severed-body-parts-as-attractive thing just sets off all my alarm bells. Still, I’m content to let the straight (and gay) guys have their fleshlights. I just don’t want them flaunted.
ack, that post took a while to compose b/c dog and cooking breakfast. Giliell & Portia beat me to critique.
What Giliell said goes for me, too. I just feel too awkward to go out & protest or whatever about it. Plus, it’s not like there’s not enough sexism to fight around the globe…
*stunned silence*
So… when’s PZ building that rocket to take us to another planet?
I’m certainly content to commiserate about how gross we all find it and point out how it plays into the nastiness of the kyriarchy.
These aspects are fucked up, but otherwise….
Does that apply to “realistic” dildos, too? Because there’s certainly a double standard in society with men and sex toys… :/
@azkyroth
The relationships between men & sex toys and between women and sex toys are certainly very different.
To answer for me: Yes, I find “realistic” dildos intended for sex to be squicky.
No, I don’t find them to have the same implications for oppression. Men are everywhere praised – well, judged really, – on the basis of professional work. leadership, lots and lots and lots of things. They aren’t leading obituaries for prize winning scientists with how useful the little woman was around the house. Prize winning men scientists are praised for being prize winning men scientists. Sex and domesticity follow women everywhere, and reducing Yvonne Brill to a really great domestic assistant who – quite surprisingly – conducted a few experiments on the side is neither an isolated event nor evidence that this is only a problem about domesticity and not sex.
I don’t think a disembodied penis has the *same* bad implications as a disembodied vagina. However I agree that it does have bad implications and I don’t want to start down a road that could, many years from now, lead to the reduction of men to sex objects.
But there’s one more qualifier as well: packies. Packies aren’t meant to be disembodied. They’re meant to embrace a body and extend a body. The realistic packies don’t make me squick, they make me D’awwww.
Crip Dyke
@giliell –
I actually have a bit of a problem with the product as such, given the history of headless women in art, reducing women to sex objects, etc.
I haven’t seen any of their advertising. For some reason I hadn’t actually read through Portia’s comment – the different colored linky and the name Wanda Sykes distracted me, I have long loved that bit – so I missed the part about the marketing.
yeah, that stuff is disgusting and I have no problems whatsoever taking to the street for that.
I…
*deep breath*
…don’t dispute any of that or see why my question would imply otherwise?
Azkyroth:
I think the term “double standard” implies that different rules are applied to similarly situated people. Crip Dyke’s post explains why men and women are not similarly situated re: sexual politics. Thereby attempting to explain why it’s not really a double standard to be more bothered by vagina-shaped sex toys than by penis-shaped sex toys. (Not to speak for her; that’s just my take).
I decided that “Fuck everything, I’m making cocoa brownies” was a good way to improve my afternoon. I warmly recommend it.
Actually… porn actresses have had their entire bodies modeled for sex toys… mouths, breasts, vaginas, asses… and they make a wholly hell of a lot of money off it, too. They get a greater cut for the use of their body parts than musicians who write and record songs get for those recordings.
You can actually buy full-bodied dolls modeled after porn actress, with “realistic”… erm… body parts… even the insides.
Fleshlight does it now, too, making tons of money off it.
They do it because it sells really fucking well… like… insanely well. These kinds of toys are the most sold sex toys on the market.
Guys can’t fuck, say, Jenna Haze for real, so they get the closest thing they can…
I’ve actually watched a “making of” video for this shit…
And for the record, I’m not defending it. I find it just as gross as the rest of you do. It’s really fucking disturbing and cringe-worthy. I just wonder what can be done when the demand for such things is so damn huge and the models are generally not just all too happy to comply, but will often initiate it themselves…
The human race can be uniquely disturbing, quite frankly…
I’ve debated this with my friend who’s a cameraman out in the aptly nicknamed “Silicon Valley” over this. He also finds them squicky, but outside of that doesn’t think there’s a problem with them.
Um… really? Is it not obvious?
Beatrice…
I think I’ll have to do something similar. Thanks for the idea.
Also, *hugs* for the work anxiety. Hope it all turns out well.
@azkyroth.
You were asking if my feelings/thoughts applied equally to realistic dildos.
I gave you my feelings/thoughts.
i didn’t infer anything from your question other than that you wanted my feelings/thoughts on the matter.
Everything’s cool.
Portia,
THanks. I just sometimes feel like I’m unable to cope with really simple situations and it makes me frustrated and angry at myself.
Beatrice:
Oh man, do I know that headspace. *moarhugs*
TRIGGER WARNING:
*suicide, rape*
A 17 year old young woman killed herself after one of the perpetrators posted a photo of the gang rape they committed online.
Fuck. I’m so angry I can’t even make grammar work.
@Beatrice (looking for a happy thought)
It may sound strange, but you don’t need to have a clue about the subject to lead a meeting or even a project, you just need to plan.
For a meeting the real question you need to settle is: what is the goal of the meeting? (Do you need to settle on a solution? or come up with alternatives? to clarify what the problem is? or is it just to collect information ? to find the next steps to take? or to identify the people who should be involved?) Again may sound strange, but when meetings don’t produce a result it’s usually because it’s unclear what the meeting was supposed to achieve.
When you’ve decided what your goal is, you can ask yourself how to achieve it, and make an agenda.
Usually the point is to find someone who knows about it and then listen to them. If you can do that you are roughly twice as good as most managers, who (in my experience) usually fall down on part two (the listening).
Best of luck!
– Veteran of a thousand meetings, in one of which the guy taking the minutes fell asleep. (I’m not kidding!)
Portia,
hugs back
—
PZ posted about that, it’s the Why thread.
Woops, thanks, Beatrice.
That’s what I get for not checking the mainpage often enough.
Portia,
I’ve decided to distract you from awfulness via having you tutor me. E-mail already in your inbox.
Kind of you, Crip Dyke :) Response sent.
By “double standard” I mean that there’s an ambient cultural attitude that use of/”resorting to” sex toys by men is some combination of pathetic and weird, even among people who consider female use relatively acceptable, and it feels like that might be factoring into this, at least subconsciously.
Delft,
I’m usually the one taking minutes! I’m still new to this, but I am not surprised that your guy fell asleep once.
Considering the number of meetings I sit on every week (taking minutes or just listening), I think I’ll be able to consider myself a veteran after this year is over too. You comments ring true. I think one of the reasons we have so many meeting is that some are too unstructured.
It sometimes seems that I spend more time on meetings than actually doing my job.
@Beatrice (looking for a happy thought)
Snap.
Hugs* for Caine. Take care of yourself. Get well soon.
–
Giliell: Ouch! Sorry about your kidlet.
–
chigau: *hugs&drugs* Root canals are always such fun….
–
Get well soon, Alethea.
–
O.o
That sounds…not so clever? But very “corporate”. Best of luck with it.
While I can’t recommend the panicking, I know perfectly well that that is what I would do.
–
opposablethumbs: Tentacles crossed!
–
Meanwhile, the other kids get a lesson in not pushing. Awesome!
–
I love sweet potatoes so much that I sometimes hope the fundies are right about the slippery slope, because I would so marry them once marriage equality happens.
oh dear
Acolyte of Sagan likes me.
What have I done?
Crip Dyke
I see your argument and your point.
It’s, *sigh*, complicated.
You are right that the headless (or even with head) depiction of women as simply fuckholes reinforces those ideas. But on the other hand, people should be able to enjoy what they want in their bedrooms.
Probably I would be satisfied (no pun intended) if those toys for men were not advertised as “just like women, only better”, but similarly to those for women as toys.
@ azkyroth, 607
Oh, no. I don’t see that. Floggers to piercings to penetrative objects to tenga eggs, guys own their own bodies and I’m all for bodily autonomy. My weirdness is with realistic severed body parts of humans.
Now, if fleshlight made an octopus beak or alien maw or cthulu…something, then I would think Fleshlight was bizarre, sick, and wrong, but in a very, very fun way. I would laugh delightfully at their creative products and then not buy any, the way I do with pretty much all sex toys, the darn expensive things.
Crip Dyke
I swear I’ve seen them, although I can’t find any with a simple search. Also, I believe L still has a project on hold for you, awaiting final approval of the designs?
@ Dalillama
You’re totally right. Things have been really ridiculous for 3 straight months – partner really ill, kid stuff, bone flare up, and I spent about 3 weeks fighting off a little mini-round of depression. By the time I really felt like I *could* engage, it was a couple weeks ago & I had papers & exams & figured I’d put if off so long already, I’d just wait until I finished exams.
Would you mind passing that on to L?
I read about how hard things have been at your house as well. I know some things about psych resources in Oregon, but I don’t know anything free.
One thing I have learned: It’s cheaper to enroll in 5 credits @ PSU than pay a counselor for weekly visits, and you get the right to visit the studen health clinic free, which isn’t real health insurance, but it helps. And you have a catastrophic health coverage plan, so that if you really have something bad happen, you can go only kind of bankrupt.
I know a couple people who were going to school who decided to skip a class in spring and take it over the summer to keep coverage going.
it’s not super cheap, but it’s like $500-700 for 3 months, and 50 bucks a week for a counselor – which is on the low side – is $600 without the other benefits and without getting to take a cool class in whatever.
Talking about it, new Term starts on Monday.
Time for freaking ouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut.
At least time for writing down my timetable…
I missed a great conversation…
But
Portia, I meant to post this as a response to your @569. ;)
Sorry, I have no cute animals to save us from the conversation about sex toys. Not even going to try for that one. :/
(But generally speaking, I agree with everyone’s observations here, also Azkyroth’s last point about sex toys being seen as something slightly weird for men. Dunno, that’s the impression I’ve had previously, even though I know of several men who gladly and often use them. *shrug* Whereas women and dildos – well, a woman needs a good orgasm to be ‘normal’, right? But if a guy needs toys to get ‘laid’…)
rq, I love that song :)
—
I think my power steering has quit. Crap. Gonna walk to the gas station and grab some power steering fluid to see if that helps. Otherwise my trip tomorrow is out the window. : /
Wow, just when you thought those bastards couldn’t get creepier. One of the “talking about male privilege is misandrist” crowd (hunt) left a comment on my blog (about #1 imitating sexy poses) that it wouldn’t happen if I “dressed her in burlap”. Because apparently jeans and a long-sleeved shirt on a 5 yo are too alluring
A dilemma I’m facing (or maybe noticing) with increasing frequency is how to get clients to shut the hell up and listen after they ask me a question. I don’t know if it’s because I’m a woman, but it comes from both men and women. They ask a question or explain their situation, and then I start to give my analysis. Without fail, I am interrupted two sentences in with one more tidbit of irrelevant information, and am not allowed to finish a damn sentence. I end up getting frustrated and borderline rude because I just need to finish what I’m saying, and manage their situation in a time-effective manner.
How do you politely tell someone to wait their turn to talk?
FossilFishy @567:
Still waiting on that line of Hallmark cards…that was beautiful my friend.
Giliell: O_o ew ew EWWW
—
Portia: while IANAL/D/M whatever, I heard that doctors (and mechanics) often have a similar problem – people come to them for help, often because they’re rather desperate, and sometimes they (the clients) have a need to vent their story to someone who listens and represents that help. Letting them get it over with (briefly) can be a form of customer service, and sometimes they listen much better afterward. Of course I don’t know if that’s the sort of behavior you mean. (Um, if you’re getting paid by the hour, isn’t it kinda their own time they’re wasting?)
Otherwise, “politely” kinda depends on the beholder <_< but I'd try a brief pause, leaving them to go on for half a sentence or so, then "Let me explain…" or "I understand but" or "Let's come back to that later", deflections of that sort. Maybe say "We have limited time, I'd like to focus on…" Flat-out saying "Please let me finish" doesn't go well, in my experience… usually they don't realize they're doing it.
—-
…I missed a conversation about sex toys? *scrolls up*
Portia
You can’t. In the 21st century people stop listening after approximately 3.75 seconds, the length of a sound bite. Advertising worked this out years ago. Best thing would be communicating via an old fashioned 2 way radio, they can’t interrupt until you release the mike button.
Portia:
You’re getting to see Rachel Maddow live? Awesome. I’m happy for you and jealous at the same time. I hope you enjoy yourself!
****
:: The Queer Shoop, looking dejectedly at Beatrice, inquires about brownies. Haz some, can I?
Pwetty pwease?::
Portia:
1. I assume these are paying clients: If they interrupt you once after you think you have enough facts to start, politely let them finish their interruption and then tell them, “You know, I do charge by the hour. I would like to move forward quickly to save you money, but if you feel like you need to talk more, it’s your dime and you can certainly interrupt anytime.”
When I was doing a bit of consulting, I had a hard time charging for the time that was actually used, and instead often limited it to the time necessary for the purpose I signed on to do, had the other person been wise enough to allow me to do my job. I never actually followed my own advice above, but if I had kept doing consulting, at some point I would have implemented it.
2. I assume these are pro bono clients: If they interrupt you once after you think you have enough facts to start politely let them finish their interruption and then tell them, “You know, I only have a very little time for each client. I want to help you get this resolved, but I might not have time to solve your problem if we spend all of our time talking.”
When I was doing case management, I sometimes did something like this. Hardly ever after the first interruption, in fact probably never after just one, but they are so often so happy that someone is really listening and treating their problems seriously (possibly for the first time) that they can’t remember the long term goal of why they are meeting with you b/c the short term goal has become so important.
I have to tell myself that although it feels rude, it doesn’t help the client to charge them 2 hours when you could have gotten things done in 1. It doesn’t help the client to spend all your time on the front end and have no pro bono time left to actually talk to the landlord/ prosecutor/ whomever… Part of what you know from your current experience is how to make your time effective. That’s part of the expertise for which they engage you. It feels all wrong. The woman in me with her socialization keeps screaming at me that I’m being rude. We have to learn to tone down or tune out those parts of us that nod politely when someone is doing something that we believe is hurting them.
Of course, once you’re super clear on the interrupting thing, then if they want their 15 minute brief on how things are going in order to continue settlement talks or whatever to turn into a 90 minute session of listening about their priorities and how wronged they feel and why that sense of wrongedness leads to their priorities, well, at that point you have clearly established what the clients’ priorities are, and you can then bill them the full amount with no guilt whatsoever. If you’re a good person and you’re not long out of law school, you will almost certainly underbill anyway, b/c some of your research time you figure just needs to be done to educate yourself. Okay, sure. But listening to the clients story isn’t professional development time.
And feel free to underbill a little for particularly horrible stories where you really feel for someone. Just because you have a policy doesn’t mean you are heartless or have to act that way. But if you’re not enforcing proper billing on yourself, you’ll have more problems in the long run.
And this is your free, solicited advice.
I think it’s got something to do with ALMIGHTY PEEN*… specifically, the bit of toxic masculinity that says sex for men means a) only their penis, no toys or playing with other bits of them because that’s unmanly if not outright ‘gay’; and b) that the penis also MUST be sufficient (and necessary) for any and all partners of the man. Real men don’t need foreplay done upon them, don’t give foreplay or handjobs to women except as ‘game’, only masturbate with bare-bones wanking (so to speak) and so on. (Do I need to spell out how much this annoys me?)
*link to Oglaf, NSFW
Pteryxx:
I like those starters, I’ll put them in the arsenal. Today I got fed up and said “Wait. Wait.” I think you’re right about them not realizing they’re doing it, for the most part. I feel rude saying “Please let me finish” even though it’s not really a rude thing to say. Especially when they came to you to ask you to talk at them, basically. : p It’s particularly bad with one client who is basically never sober when I see her and so she has zero perception of how she’s behaving, it seems. Frustrating.
Lofty:
Good point about the listening span. I lol’d about the radio bit…worth a shot!
Tony:
I’m maybe seeing RM live…depending on car situation. My uncle has loaned me a little pickup truck to do the six hour round trip I have to do tomorrow, and he, like a secular saint, is going to get my car to the shop for me while I’m gone for the day. If it’s repaired, I’ll still go…depending on how much I’m out of pocket. Crap…it’s looking less like it’ll happen! Oh, well, I can probably get them to mail me the book. And she’ll write another book and return to Chicago sometime, right? Yep. It’ll be fine.
Crip Dyke:
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with that. They are just happy someone is listening. Once I realized that was the case (during an internship in law school where I heard out the people that wanted to press misdemeanor charges and the cops were tired of listening to them), I got a little more patient with listening. Not that I was less apt to let them go on and on before, but it helps to have that compassionate angle. I guess the trick for me is to figure out where to draw the line. I don’t charge for most initial consultations, so I am listening for free when they’re telling their story for the first time, which is obviously the most time-consuming meeting we’ll have. I have to draw the line somewhere, and figuring that out and being polite and firm when I’m focusing them on the relevant information I need can be hard. I often find myself just blurting out “But that doesn’t matter.” After they’ve told me the same thing three times and I’ve gently refocused them three times. Tact doesn’t always work : /
Thanks everyone for your thoughts, they’ve helped a lot. You guys are a really great bunch..
“0`0`0`0`0`0`
Driving my uncle’s S-10 back to my house, a country song I’ve never heard before came on the radio. The chorus went “I wish you loved me like my dog does.” It was even more horrible than you might think. One verse said something like “My dog doesn’t feud with my sister” and a later one said “My dog doesn’t get all mad when I say your sister is a *****ing *****” ….only men get to have feelings, folks! Women should just be literally like bitches. But not bitchy. Ya know. Or something.
…and people say rap is a misogynistic genre.
(Oh, and Crip Dyke, I’m considering the best way to answer your email questions. I think I have settled on a way to word my answer that will make sense, just gotta get it out into the words. Soon. When’s your contracts exam?)
Exams are MWF starting yesterday, so Contracts is tomorrow, 12:30.
Dear gods, that’s inhumane! I’ll shoot you an email tonight.
I don’t know if it’s “polite” or just passive-aggressive, which seems to often be what people really mean, but I’ve found it gratifying, when someone interrupts me, to wait until they stop talking and then resume talking from the syllable I left off at when they interrupted me. I’m not sure how effective it is, either…
Yeah, this.
Can I help?
Sent, CD.
THIS. Wow. Nail on the head. Good to remember that they did come to me for a reason, and focusing the discussion is part of my job. The other side of the coin is my realization of the power dynamic, and the fact that I don’t want to act like a bully by virtue of my job. I know lawyers that act like clients are just automatically idiots and I don’t want to put off that attitude.
Azkyroth:
I’ve done that! haha it is gratifying, that’s for sure :)
—
Ugh. I forgot I put a calendar reminder in that S’s mother’s birthday is next week. Now I’m in a spiral…ah well. At least I’ve developed the restraint to not check his facebook activity. : p
*interrupting my wisdom*
-heavy sigh-
-slump back in chair-
-cross arms-
-purse lips-
-tap foot-
*works every time*
—
Why no, I don’t work with “clients”.
Are “clients” tasty?
Good morning!
I prepared courgette lasagne for afternoon, took a shower, ate brownies for breakfast and have time to say good morning before going to work. That’s a good start.
—
*brownies for Tony*
—-
Portia,
Have fun at the Rachel Maddow speech! (today?)
I am seriously irritated in the “world without gods” thread. I have read so much by Rutee that I have enjoyed. To see hir minimizing the pain that some people go through is so damnably frustrating. Xe is seriously trying to label me as someone who ignores the suffering of minorities around the world, simply because I recognize that some atheists are discriminated against.
Fuck.
Oh.
Brownies.
What was I talking about?
Squirrel.
Doggie.
Preeeeety lights.
…. except that eating sweets for breakfast makes me queasy. I always hope they won’t make feel like that this time, contrary to all the times before. *facepalm* :)
Azkyroth: believe me, I’m restraining myself from going on a long, detailed, and explicit rant about straight guy friends of mine who react to (slightly creative) sex advice with varying degrees of chair-dancing EEEEEK TEH GAY. They just want Viagra to solve everything. Yeesh.
(I imagine them scrambling for the countertops while cockrings and bullet vibes swarm around their ankles…)
I think I’ve hit the pinnacle of my misanthropy right now. I hate humanity so much I’m not sure it’s possible to go any further…
Why can’t I just leave this fucking planet?
I’m referring to the recent post in the Why? thread…
Sorry, NateHevens. There just aren’t enough bunnies in the world sometimes.
I am amazed at how much nicer the world looks when one doesn’t have a giant pus-pocket in the lower-right quarter of one’s face.
Okay, what the ever-loving shit is Rutee smoking?
Hir arguments in that thread boil down to “nuh-uh, atheists are totally not discriminated against, besides, [group] in [location] has it worse than you!”
Dafuq?
I mean, really. Dafuq?
Does xe not understand that any degree of oppression is a Bad Thing? Or that attempting to quantify one’s status as a member of a Really Truly Oppressed Group, (and therefore any bullshit atheists experience is irrelevant) is a really shitty thing to do?
I’m disabled. I’m fucking oppressed in ways unique to my disability and my environment. I can’t complain too much, because the ADA is federal law, but — and this is important! — but I am still reminded on a daily basis that I, due to being disabled, am still not considered to be really a person by some people. Sometimes I’m almost fucking invisible, because a counter is too high or, holy fuck, people just don’t look down. Out to dinner at a restaurant? If it’s a place we don’t frequent, my companions are often asked what I would like to order. Half the products in any given store will be out of my reach. There are some stretches of sidewalk that are utterly impassable, due to either a lack of curb cuts or a severe lack of upkeep and maintenance (i.e. it’s more pot-hole than sidewalk). Some curb cuts are so steep as to be just this side of unsafe. I choose to patronise businesses based on three things: stuff I want, accessible location, and enough room to maneuver The Behemoth. I know the location of every accessible toilet in downtown Bellingham AND which ones of those are barely accessible or accessible in name only (*cough*Horseshoe*cough*)
The oppression I experience is neither “better” nor “worse” than what others experience, though I’ll give you, LGBT people do get a lot more shit than I do. (Can’t remember the last time someone was killed for a disability, seen too damn many people end up hospitalized or worse over their orientation, and I do know how much it sucks to live with fear and paranoia — I’d like a world where things like race, gender (including gender identity), orientation, body size/shape, all those things that are used to keep people down, you know? A world where all that shit is, well, it will never be totally eradicated, but a world where oppressing X, Y, and Z classes of people is heavily discouraged through societal pressure not because it’s “PC” or some shit, but because dammit, it’s the right thing to do.
I don’t know if any of that made sense, I tend to write the way I think, and it’s very stream-of-consciousness — sometimes I confuse myself.
Anyway, um… if there’s anything I need to clarify, please let me know — I want to get better at this communication thing.
WMDKitty:
Nope.
No need for clarification.
I understand-and agree-with you.
Pteryxx
I had a giggle at the mental image in your @639.
(And not to induce your rant, although it sounds interesting – short discussion about erogenous zones to follow!)
And I think there’s a lot of truth to what you say about it being all about the penis – how many times have we heard that men have only one erogenous zone, while women have plenty (articles usually end with the note that basically anywhere could be an erogenous zone for women, you just have to ask!)?
I like to read articles titled ‘The 7 Erotic Zones of Your Man and How to Find Them!’ or ’10 Erogenous Zones of Men’ etc. and I am always disappointed. 5 or 6 out of the 7 (or 8 or 9 out of the 10) will focus on genitals and genitals only (by genitals I mean penis-and-balls, although I have seen it commented that no man likes his balls touched unless he’s gay or weird (!!!)); the usual outliers are earlobes and/or the neck.
And that’s it. Everything else is a list of smaller areas on the genitals, with the perineum moving the furthest away in terms of towards-the-ass. Maybe a short comment at the end about asking what is pleasant to a particular man, but no overall comment about possibly everywhere!!!.
Anyhow, good morning.
WMDKitty
I understand what you mean.
Good rant.
WMDKitty
That was very good. Powerful and clear. Great rant.
Thanks Tony, chigau and rq. You know, sometimes I’d be better off if I could just stop thinking when I’m tired.
And Giliell, dammit, now they’re going to take me away!
Ah well, I’m pretty sure they’ll be coming for me anyway after leaving the following over on this thread over at the Atheist Experience blog.
rq:
it is bad enough that you start posting when I am getting ready for bed, but now you’re having sex talk? That is unfair squared.
In any case, as a guy, my sources of sexual pleasure are not limited to my penis. I really like my neck given attention. In fact, while I dislike having them, the process of getting a hickey is often pleasurable.
Then there is kissing. Thankfully I have encountered few partners who do not kiss. I love kissing. There is something incredibly intimate about not just kissing, but making out with someone who knows what they are doing. If I had sex with someone and they didn’t like to kiss, I would be dissatisfied.
I need to head to bed, but I cannot help but marvel at the work some people put into being stupid. Some are like masters of the trade, crafting quality stupid just for us.
I swear, if I see another person try and pull the First Cause out of their ass, and then say that I don’t understand it because I look at the shitty argument only to declare that it is shitty, I’m just going to smash my head in a door.
WMDkitty, I’m with you too. And I too am pretty disappointed in Rutee, xe’s nym is one I look for in the comments. But then we all have our blind spots.
Mine seems to be the exact size and shape of whatever tool I happened to be holding when the phone rings. It’s gotten to the point where I just hold onto the damn thing while I’m talking so I don’t have to search for it afterwards. It can be a bit awkward when it’s one of these, but it works for me. Pic for scale here.
And speaking of working for me: I, yer standard issue, cis gendered, straight male, have got erogenous zones at varying distances from my penis. And no, I won’t tell you where. ;)
these
Tony
I couldn’t help it! I missed the conversation while it was in full swing, so I have to make up for it by torturing you.
Or something.
And yes, I have also discovered that men have several erogenous zones not related (directly) to their penis. But nobody ever talks about them (openly – certainly not mainstream media)! I suppose it’s a question of sex education, and it’s great to communicate with sex partners, but it’s also difficult – because there’s so much It must be the penis! information out there, it can be awkward asking/telling a partner that you would like attention paid elsewhere. Especially if it’s a supposedly especially-naughty location. Or just plain different and not something someone would think of randomly (hard scalp massage, for instance, as a major turnon).
Not being a man, I’m pretty sure I’m not doing justice to the situation, and obviously finding a partner with whom one is comfortable speaking and communicating is paramount in any case.
But kissing is awesome. Just kissing for kissing’s sake is awesome. It’s a big thing for me, too.
FossilFishy
Nice tool. ;)
Sometimes when I have something in my hand when answering the phone, I forget it’s there and start making swinging motions as I’m listening/thinking. This does not always end well.
Good morning
Well, I’ll only say that men have nipples, too
Portia
Something that I found out to work pretty well in adult classroom management is to lay out some rules beforehand. I always tell people that I’m there to answer their questions, and that there will always be time for that or for them saying something. But that sometimes in order for things to be effective I need to finish my point.
I know that sounds very teachery, and it is, but it usually works. But only because I stick to the rules, too, so I will often give people time to ask questions, to add anything, and I’ll look for big fat question marks hanging over people’s heads.
Although the information they have might be irrelevant to the case, the person making the point clearly feels it to be relevant. Also, when you have to tell the facts to somebody people are prone to fuck up and forget to mention something that is relevant, so it also helps to paraphrase the important information again. Not only does it help to avoid missunderstandings, it also gives the person the feeling that you actually listened to them.
Lawyer and doctor (and teacher) talk often sounds very much over the head for the average person. The connection is clear to the professional, but not to the client. You know, the feeling at the doctor’s office that what they say sounds like they totally didn’t even listen to what you said.
Ohhhh, talking about lawyers, my BFF got a job. She was also “running her own business” because she couldn’t find a job for the last 7 years. Now I actually have to hope that the idiots of the Pirate Party* will make it into state parliament again next term…
*They are Good Guys™ They have privilege shining out of their asses but the ability to recognize that of the average run-over toad.
Giliell:
Re: men’s nipples-
I lack much sensitivity in mine, and even tell sex partners such. Yet so many of them try their best.
****
rq:
No more torture, please.
Or you’ll never see an OREO again!
****
FossilFishy:
Can someone please tell me if I’m reading Rutee wrong?
I mean, I have been trying to give hir the benefit of the doubt, but I can’t do it any longer. To see hir minimize what atheists have gone through, all because other minority groups have it worse is irksome. Have *I* personally had it bad?
No.
But I am also not trying to weigh the Degrees of Oppression. It is *all* bad. I can deplore bigotry against atheists in one breath and criticize discrimination against women in the next.
Tony
Don’t withhold the Oreos! I’ll stop! I won’t even say [text removed due to self-censorship].
Maybe later this evening. When you’re not supposed to working on getting some sleep…!
re: Rutee, I’ve only just started working through that thread. Thoughts (if still relevant) later in the day.
Giliell
Congrats to your BFF!
Sometimes there is good news too: Reebok Fires Rick Ross for Alleged Rape Lyrics
Waiting for cries of “misandry” “presumption of innocence” and “Feminazistasilin” coming in in 3-2-1…
I also don’t know what the word alleged does up there. There’s nothing “alleged” in those lyrics.
OREO? OREO?
Ohhhhasome Reality Enhancing Orgasm.
Trigger warning:
Another dead rape victim
Fuck. Just ran into anti-psychiatry woo at Hemant’s place.
It’s using the standard arguments about how mental illness isn’t real because there aren’t any blood tests or measures of brain chemistry to “prove” a person is mentally ill. (Aren’t most physical ailments also diagnosed by observation of symptoms, such as fever, rash, sweating, nausea, vomiting, etc?)
Oh, right. Clicky!
They have it backwards. There are no tests to “prove” anyone is sane.
Therefore, we all are insane! And you cannot “prove” otherwise.
(I know insanity is not the same thing as mental illness.)
Thanks, Beatrice, it’ll be tomorrow :)
Giliell,
Good points, lots to think about, thanks.
So, bacteria only started to exist when they invented the microscope, I guess
Oh, and seriously cool fotography
blf
That’s a nice breakdown of Oreos into its component crumbs.
Portia
Have fun with Rachel Maddow tomorrow! I hope you’ll tell us all about it (and I hope you make it there!).
Yeah, nothing ambiguous about those lyrics. *shudder* Good move by Reebok.
And neat photos, Giliell.
Oreo?
<clickety-click>
Ah. Getting healthier all the time, I see.
Now that’s what I call progress towards a healthy lifestyle.
Yumyum. I wish I had some Oreos now.
This kid may have a point but I wish he’d stop shaking his hands like that while he’s talking. (Short speech on organic farming and GMOs and the Evil Within.)
Heh, I went to school with the saxophonist!
12 Million Americans Believe Lizard People Run Our Country.
And lots of other wacky things too…
(Who is Our, kemosabe?)
I made it to the University of Illinois for this continuing education thing. Driving to an unfamiliar place in an unfamiliar vehicle is nerve wracking, but I’m here! And the program includes lots of women, so I’m looking forward to it. Got here early by getting up super early. Whew. Gope everyone has a goo day.
Worked closing shift at the restaurant tonight. Left my car’s headlights on again. (This is why I can’t have nice things.) It’s raining so I’m going to sit in my car and smoke the various plant materials in my car until someone comes to save me. All hail portable Internet!
I’m unsure if that’s multiple offerings to Tpyos or intriguing advice…
Portia
Have a good day! I hope it’s an interesting program with burgers for lunch. ;)
blf
Special, multiple offerings for Tpyos, I would say. For better note-taking during the program.
Stay safe everyone. These days I’m mostly convinced we’re living in a simulation anyway. But does that even matter down here? My nihilism says inherent meaning can go fuck itself. Fuck those higher-dimensional beings exploiting our simulation for culture, or something. I bet we’re like a really fucked up flowerpot in some extradimensional museum. Kind of like a depressing movie.
I was watching an Australian show called Hungry Beast. It’s usually pretty cool. But they had a couple of interview with the family of some Australian soldiers killed recently in Afghanistan. I was watching, and I realised it absolutely left me cold. I just didn’t care about these deaths. Usually, my empathy is off the fucking charts when it comes to tragedies. Half the stuff I read on FTB makes me cry. But not this… I wonder how many Afghani civilians died the same day this soldier did.
I absolutely love the band The National. Matt Berninger is a god. I have a huge crush on that guy. In a totally gay way. What a poet. Their new album is coming out in May. It is going to be amazing.
Got to find more smokeables!
Have a great day Portia, break a lobe!
I for one am deathly afraid* of the grey goo. Definitely not something to hoped for, though goping for it is a whole ‘nother kettle ‘o kraken.
*Hey, I had to replace my nuclear annihilation fears with something, now didn’t I?
Ah, I get it! The speaker says “Hewarble chicken chicken baawaha chicken” and the notes say “OREO OREO OREO.”
(The Q&A session at the end might be rather amusing.)
Re: Oreos:
Meh. I always preferred Hydrox cookies. And they’re gone.
Ah hell yes xerxes! I just listened to Fake Empire and I’m sold. Fantastic stuff.
And I really dug The Hornets too, rq. I’d really like to hear them with better production. That sort of music needs (IMO) the bass to be up close and personal in a spleen vibrating sorta way. I’ll also say that with chops like that, those singers are going to be
unworldly good in a couple of years when their voices reach full maturation.Oh, Portia, can I pleeeeeeease adopt:
?!
Best double typo ever!!!
Glad you made it to where you needed to be and good job doing it in an unfamiliar vehicle. I am terrified of driving and don’t do it unless I have to, so that would freak me out to the point of finding a way to get out of it or get another ride. Gope you have a goo day at the continuing education thingie!
*
Thanks, Menyambal, from way back, for the stool suggestion. I’m going to look for one the next time I’m at the secondhand shop, along with a mini-table and a…… crap, I can’t remember the third thing.
*
Re: this sex conversation:
I’m with you on the nipples thing, Tony, and they do always try.
But…. and this is something I seriously sometimes feel ashamed about because I’ve never heard anyone talk about this in other than a shaming and/or patronizing way… I don’t care for kissing. And it’s not that I’ve never kissed a good kisser or tried really hard to enjoy it the way other people enjoy it, because I can certainly differentiate between people I don’t mind kissing, people I can just tolerate kissing, and people who I just don’t ever want to kiss again for fear that I won’t be able to hold back running away in horror.
But, it doesn’t do a thing for me and it sometimes feels like a chore. And inevitably, if I tell a partner this (not while kissing, ’cause I would feel too mean, but as part of general discussion), they make a sad face after kisses and say something like, “But you didn’t like that, did you?” Urgh. I can enjoy a particular kiss or kisses with a certain person without having any overall fondness of the activity or the burning desire to do it again. But sometimes I worry that something is wrong with me because I’ve never heard anyone say this without someone else saying, “Well you just haven’t found a good person to kiss yet.” m-/ So I’m assumed to just be inexperienced and not really know what I like and don’t like.
Combine them: Self-replicating nukes. Expanding colonies of miniaturized Dark Star bombs.
(Add peas and it’ll be the next zombie fad!)
That sort of shit really needs to be pushed out of the general discourse in our culture. I’m so sick to death of the tyranny of the majority and the thoughtless, harmful ignorance that comes with it. And let’s be clear here, this shows up in even the most enlightened of subcultures.
On the weekend we went to an old college friend of Ms. Fishy’s and stayed the night. This is a woman who was warning people about global warming 15 years ago to give an example of her standing as an enlightened person. A couple of hours after the kids were abed out came the pot. I really dislike trying to hold a conversation with stoned people and I long ago got bored with being in that state myself. I excused myself and went to read my book. Everyone there had to come and check that I was okay. In the lefty sub-culture that Ms. Fishy and her friends are a part of dope smoking in normal and if you don’t want to participate there must be something wrong. You’d think that they’d recognise their normative assumptions given that they understand it in many other contexts. Bah!
Anyway, there ain’t nothing wrong with you Parrowing. You’re allowed to like what you like, and dislike what you dislike. You’re even allowed to do things you dislike for the sake of another’s pleasure should you freely choose to do so.
That’s Paul Ryan speaking. Just last night he reminded us yet again that he is a culture warrior with a religious/patriarchal/dictatorial bent.
You remember Mr. Ryan, the guy Romney chose as an added burden when he was already dragging around lead-like idiocies of his own? Well, Ryan is busier than Romney these days. He continues to push false-front budgets that don’t do what he claims they’ll do, and he continues to enjoy a reputation as a budgetary genius.
This guy is as anti-woman as they come. He needs to be knocked off his Faux News pedestal. He doesn’t deserve his reputation for being intelligent. (Link.) Well, maybe Ryan is smart for a regressive Republican? In that case, their standards are lower than I thought.
I’m not happy about his resurrected budget, but at least that bit gets some media attention. Meanwhile, his “We don’t want a country where abortion is simply outlawed. We want a country where it isn’t even considered” comments are lucky to get a mention.
Ok horde, I’m torn and need some input.
My girlfriend bought tickets (only $10) to see the Vagina Monologues at UB tomorrow night. She bought them weeks ago, and one of her friends and her friend’s daughter are coming with us.
I’ve never seen it, nor read much about it, so I was thinking it is something I should see, something that will educate and inform me about women’s issues.
However, my roommate’s nephew has made it to the NCAA national college hockey championship (he plays for Yale), and the game is on Saturday at the same time. I know the kid, his parents live right next door. I feel obligated to watch the game with my roommate, mainly because he can’t afford to be in Pittsburgh for the game so he’ll be watching at home while the rest of his family is there in person.
I feel like I have to support him and his family because this really is a once in a lifetime type of deal, and I can see the Vagina Monologues anytime.
Here’s the rub. I talk about feminism with my girlfriend a lot. Am I a hypocrite if I choose a sporting event over an iconic play about feminism?
Are the Vagina Monologues something feminists generally view as a pro feminist thing even?
I don’t know what to do, either way I disappoint somebody. My personal choice would be the play because quite frankly Yale winning the NCAA championship does nothing for me, but I do want to support my friend.
Hah, popcorn nukes! Has anyone told you recently blf that you have an evil turn of mind?
I haven’t been reading that thread, but I know exactly what you mean.
With this, too. D:
FFS.
Y’know what?
I would like a country where abortion is not necessary. Because women never become pregnant unless they want to be pregnant (because men never try to sabotage contraception, because women have access to whatever free-to-cheap contraception works best for them – including backups), and because no woman ever goes in for a healthy-pregnancy checkup and gets awful news.
But.
I am not a blithering idiot.
Abortion has always existed, and – until we get 100% accessible 100% affordable contraception, and there is a total lack of contraception-sabotaging men, and there are no teratogens in the world at all (ha!) – always will exist.
But I don’t have a white cat!
Although I do know a penguin who provides cats with flying lessons using a trebuchet.
Ah crap, I forgot that Tony asked me a question.
I don’t think you’re reading Rutee wrong, but I’m very, very wary in around this sort of topic. I’m so privileged in most things that I really struggle sometimes to come to terms with arguments about oppression.
My thought as I read xir comments was that xe was painting with an awfully broad brush. That xe thought that everyone who was saying that atheist do suffer from oppression was claiming that they themselves were suffering from oppression. It also felt like “Dear Muslima” all over again. I was left with the words: “Who appointed you Chief Arbitrator of the Ministry of Oppression?” stuck on my tongue because of the aforementioned awareness of my shallow grasp of these issues. And that’s all I’ll say about that in the Lounge.
I first read that as “there are no teenagers in the world at all…”, which seemed sort-of appropriate in context.
Uhm, about that trebuchet, what sort of bracing would one need to put it up on the roof of a modern house? Ms. Fishy and the designer refused to consider a dedicated mounting point for one when we were settling the plans for our new house. Very shortsighted that, my calculations show that we need the extra height to clear the highway. I’m going to have to add it later and I’m a bit concerned about collapsing the roof.
Oh sweet fucking Zombie Jesus, Kirk Cameron isn’t just an asshole, and he isn’t just stupid. He’s just a stupid asshole.
The mildly deranged penguin has never let minor obstacles like highways, passing aircraft, invading space aliens, or the local French Foreign Legion forces bother her. Shoot it a few times with the trebuchet and it won’t be an obstacle anymore. (Amd if you can arrange for a few horses to be positioned underneath when it collapses, you’ll be clearly eligible for various rewards and honours.)
In fact, she points out, you can use it in trick shots. Shoot a kitty at it, aiming carefully so it bounces off a passing car, a tree, the hovering TV news helicopter, and lands in a carefully-positioned bucket of (killed) peas. Make sure the peas are dead. We don’t want anything nasty to happen to the yowling ammo.
Uh huh, uh huh, [scribbles frantically] helicopter-peas and bucket-cats, yup, I think I got it….
In all seriousness (not particularly) my business provides me with a metric shit-tonne (ten shit-loads to the shit-tonne) of dead bicycle tubes. I’m planning on building a ballista sorta thing using them as the torsion springs. I consider it an obligation as a parent to provide real, hands-on educational opportunities for my child to learn about medieval siege weapons. Her growth as person demands it!
And with that little bit of damning evidence for child protective services I must to bed. Good night all.
2.5 – 3 hours left of time to study for contracts.
Surprisingly, I think I’m going to be fully ready, though I am not yet. We’ll see.
Prolly won’t post much of anything today. Gnaw on the chew toys for me.
And thanks to Portia. Voidability v rescission helped, even if just to reassure myself that for most purposes I don’t have to know any difference: the effect is the same.
Glodson:
Just getting acquainted with Mr Cameron?
J/k
He is a complete douchebag.
Crip Dyke
Good luck
Esteleth,
Exactly; I want a world where abortion is never even considered, because there’s 100% reliable and available contraception, and we’ve developed the technology to prevent/fix any of the things that might cause negative health effects for mother or fetus, and there’s a social safety net preventing destitution, thus ensuring that all pregnancies are a) wanted, b) viable, and c) ending in circumstances where a child can reasonably be raised. At that point, abortion would probably be so rare as to be effectively nonexistent, but I don’t see us getting there any time soon.
Lynna
Neither does George Will, William F Buckley, or any of the other dipshits that are always trotted out as conservative intellectuals. They’re somewhat more erudite than the rank and file conservative, they know more words and can construct fancy sentences, but it doesn’t make their ideas any better or more reasonable.
Dalillama @699:
Right. Like Paul Ryan, the men you mentioned do have a skill. Talking glibly while seeming to make sense, and avoiding the traps of logic and facts, that’s what they do well. It’s like a false front on a building in an old “wild west” town. The false front makes it look bigger and more well-constructed than it is. I would add Princeton’s Robert George to your list of revered Republican intellectuals whose brains are only good up to a point. After that point, they seriously malfunction.
Esteleth @688:
Well, you could take a major step toward achieving that utopia by eliminated the human sex drive altogether and growing babies in test tube farms. Or, you could just eliminate humans, and that would solve the abortion issue.
@Tony
In the past, I just thought of him as another foolish godbot. In a way, I felt more pity for him. He desperately tried to seem smarter than he is, but wasn’t smart enough tor realize how dumb he is. But this statement… it isn’t that he’s punching above his weight, it is the disgusting rationalization for his statement.
Yea, it took reading that for me to realize what kind of douche he is.
question:
In the course of an online conversation you come to feel people are misreading you, what is a good way to determine if the fault lay with yourself for expressing yourself poorly, or with others (shoot, even a combo)?
erikthebassist at 685:
IMHO, in this situation I’d go with staying by your roommate, because of this:
As a sports person, if that were me, I’d hate to be watching a personally important game alone while people I loved were where I wished to be. There might be excited texting, cell phone messages, real-time commiseration. Conversely, the Vagina Monologues are important to your enlightenment, and it might be important to see the show WITH your friend, but it’s just a show. Nobody you know is performing it. So, IMHO I suggest you talk to her right away about seeing it another time, WITH HER if that’s important, and commit to it… and then spend the game with your roommate so he can be excited with someone. Good luck, and I’m tickled that you ask for advice with such a good-person-type dilemma.
Thanks Pteryxx. I was leaning that direction as well, and my SO is quite fine with it. She has company to go with and I did tell her I will go see it with her at the next opportunity, provided she likes it the first time.
Today’s Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal.
–
The Tithe That Binds
–
Holy FUCK, THIS!!!
And in a hospital?!?!? Srsly????? Lucky me, I can still walk short distances—but what about those who can’t?
–
FossilFishy
*vigorous applause*
–
Why am I not surprised to see that Repubs are significantly more conspiracy-prone than Dems?
–
Clearly.
–
If only more parents shared this attitude! We cannot rely on the Public School System to provide this necessary education.
–
Crip Dyke: Best of luck!
–
Oh and the other mitigating factor is that part of the reason he can’t afford to go is that I’m moving out in two weeks to move in with my SO so he has to bear the burden of the entire rent / utilities until he finds another room mate, which I’m encouraging him to make his SO.
So I’m even more obligated since if I wasn’t moving out he’d probably be in Pittsburgh by now.
and FTR I gave plenty of notice, over two months. =)
In better news, the NHL announced its formal support for gay players yesterday:
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/11/national_hockey_league_announces_initiative_for_gay_athletes/
more:
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/12/sponsors_scramble_to_back_first_out_gay_athlete/
A bizarre turn of events:
A series of occurrences beyond the foreseeability of the Victoria Laundry test has appeared to leave me…
…prepared for my contracts exam. Hmph. And there’s 40 min before I have to leave. No guilt play-time. Yahoo!
Glenda Jackson speaks out against Thatcher in parliamentary tribute debate . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8
You go, girl! I myself recall the Thatcher years well. She had many qualities, but compassion was not one of them. Condemning the South African ANC opposition against Apartheid as terrorists, opposing having Augusto Pinochet being put on trial in Britain…
Good evening
Well, yeah.
Mr.’s cousin got booted from college. Actually, he’s not allowed to enter the campus anymore.
Why? The idiot threatened a flatmade with a toy pistol and apparently convincingly enough that the police stormed the apartment.
I guess he feels terribly unfairly treated because it was just a toy pistol and he just meant it to be fun and he’s a good guy.
Damn, I’ve known the kid since he was 10 and he never appeared to be that kind of an idiot.
Because, you know, boys will be boys.
Now his parents are heartbroken because he’s sitting at home all the time, playing computergames in the night and sleeping during the day.
erik
Well, I’d say you’re choosing to support your friend over watching a play.
I don’t want a feminism where a play overrides concerns for real people.
NEW THREAD.