Holy shit, Tony. You are an awesome bloke, with amazing strength of character and the strength and generosity to enable your father to put right something he had got wrong (and then later give him a momentous Father’s Day present too). Thank you for telling us that (erm, I seem to have got something in my eye for a moment there). Your parents should be so proud of you.
'Tis Himselfsays
Thanks for that, Tony.
I always had trouble telling my father I loved him and he had a similar problem telling me about his love for me. Fortunately, the last time I talked with my father we were able to say “I love you” to each other. I’m glad that happened.
So I tune back in to find the Justin Griffith post in the “Most Active.” Like being punched in the stomach. And then in the comments thread he keeps thanking Josh for educating him and demanding he be allowed a “learning curve.” I don’t think anyone’s ever denied him the time it takes some people to understand, but if you recognize that you’re still learning and that this is a situation in which people are being harmed, you should damn well shut the hell up publicly until you’re confident you know what you’re talking about. Maybe ask people you respect and trust some questions or for some reading suggestions. Maybe do some investigation of your own. But instead you thought it wise to throw in with that post, with no concern for the effects it would have. You haven’t fallen on your sword or anything so ridiculously dramatic; you’ve simply, like many others before you in this, done something stupid and callous.
I have read your blog from time to time in the past,* Justin, but I won’t now. I won’t even comment on that thread, as it’s become another Slimepit outpost. I hope you’ll come to regret that post and make things right.
*And I’m one of those scary anarchists about whom you seem so ignorant.
Silisays
Fucking fuck of a fucky smeg!
Now my old computer is acting up as well, and I can’t find the damn receipt for the new one so I can take it for a checkup.
but if you recognize that you’re still learning and that this is a situation in which people are being harmed, you should damn well shut the hell up publicly until you’re confident you know what you’re talking about.
Yes, that would have been helpful. Too late now. It’s the slimepit of FtB already.
Pteryxxsays
Yes, that would have been helpful. Too late now. It’s the slimepit of FtB already.
…What the heck are they doing? Any time a blogger gives them an inch, they move in so they can use that blogger’s cover to start attacking with insults and lies? None of them even thanked Justin except as a backhanded attack on the rest of FTB that *does* call them out. And what’s with the insistence that links to the Slimepit be provided? It sounds like they’re hoping toxic speech gets requoted so it gets more attention.
Silisays
Yes, and right down the street is St. Mary of the Whiners’ Butthurt Clinic.
I don’t remember; are we alright with “butthurt”?
I associate with spankings, but someone called it out as homophobic at some point, I think.
Is there any agreement on “-tard” too? “Retard” or “bastard”?
Silisays
On the subject of naming the Darkfetus, I’d go with “Ness of”.
Silisays
[TW for dentistry]
Srsly?
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker)says
I’m not sure of the etiquette here. To post the following seems a little presumptuous, but to post it on my blog and just put a link here seems like blogwhoring. This was inspired by the community here and I guess I’d rather the former infraction rather than the latter so:
Robot Lion Mouse: a cheerleading tale.
My daughter has a fear, a boogie-monster of epic proportions. She can be quite serious about it, insisting that someone stay with her while she’s on the toilet for instance because the Robot Lion Mouse will get her if they don’t.
I tell her that I’m not afraid of the Robot Lion Mouse because I’m bigger than it, stronger than it, smarter than it. To which she replies, “No you’re not.”
“It’s so big that it can touch the sun.”
“It’s so strong that it can lift the whole house.”
“It’s so smart that it can….”
And here she failed to find a metric, she’s only four after all. I declined to offer one despite that being my normal role in such situations.
It occurs to me that we all have Robot Lion Mice in our lives. Things that no matter what angle we choose to view them from, they’re always greater than we are. This is not fantasy, not mythology, it’s fact.
The pervasive tacit sexism in my culture is one such thing. When I used to think about it objectively I despaired. How could one person, so small, so powerless, prevail against a monolithic problem that has no clear source, no head that can be struck off with a clean, final blow. The sword stroke fantasies I had as a younger man turned on me as I grew in years and knowledge; the passing of that hope of heroism left me more despairing than before.
But the putting down of the useless sword freed my hands for other tools. The spyglass has been the harbinger of hope. You see, that monolith is only such in its entirely. The gore-dripping monster is a pixelated confabulation. It’s made up of the actions of individuals. Individuals just like myself, just like you.
One need not fight the whole thing, and therein lies its downfall. One interaction at time, one misogynist slur confronted rather than ignored, one lack of privilege recognised and addressed, one voice heard and not dismissed, these are the tiny chips that we can cut out of the monster. Enough chips fallen where they may and it will no longer be able to stand. And if that happens…when that happens, we bury it and build a garden where it lay, for there will be no lack of fertiliser to sprout our seeds.
My daughter is wrong, we need not fear the Robot Lion Mouse because with community, commitment and courage we are monster-killers.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I associate with spankings, but someone called it out as homophobic at some point, I think.
I’m gay, and I’m the one that said it, and I’ve never thought of it as homophobic. However, if someone thinks so I’d like to hear why. I’m not opposed to not using it.
Is there any agreement on “-tard” too? “Retard” or “bastard”?
I don’t see “bastard” much anymore, and its original social context as far as illegitimacy is pretty obsolete.
“Retard”, on the other hand, I’m pretty sure everyone here agrees not to use.
thunk = ∫ SQRRAWK! d(MQG)says
Well… you all wake up before me, so I miss a lot of this. But hello.
Shorter me: You’re not indispensable just because we share proportionally more DNA than we do with the lady across the street.
Exactly.
I realize that not everybody is in an economic position to do this, but if people in general stopped reflexively genuflecting before the altar of Teh Famblee™, they’d be a lot happier. A chronically and irredeemably toxic relationship with a relative is worse than not having a relationship with them at all.
Sure, sometimes there are misunderstandings that can be cleared up with good faith and strong communication. And sometimes there’s a happy ending, as with Tony’s relationship with his dad. But life isn’t like the movies. Some people aren’t diamonds in the rough; they’re just jerks. If your mother has always treated you like shit, the odds are that she’s not going to have a deathbed realization of this.
Also, the veneration of blood ties above all else (except maybe “god and country”) is a hallmark of a society with no justice for the weak.
Beatrice:
I’m tempted to go there and write a “You’re just doing this for the hits” comment, to round up the stupidity.
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
I left a comment over there a little while ago. I considered addressing the slimepitters, just for the sake of the lurkers, but… fuck it. I could spend that time masturbating instead, you know? And it’s not like the lurkers don’t have plenty of food for thought already, thanks to all the smart and decent people who engaged the bottom feeders.
Speaking of masturbating, I have no idea of the validity of this study (or the reportage thereon), but I couldn’t stop laughing at the Jezebel headline.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Seriously, I had a convo on Justin’s thread that basically went like this.
A group of anti-capitalist Occupy London protesters took up residence on Hampstead Heath this week and defended the camp, saying it would improve the area by driving out the men who meet there for sex.
…Ronan McNern, member of the Occupy London press team and co-founder of the LGBTQI anti-cuts collective Queer Resistance, told PinkNews.co.uk this afternoon: “I was furious when I saw these comments, which are not representative of Occupy London, and against our own Safer Spaces Policy, which is very clear: ‘Racism, as well as ageism, homophobia, sexism, transphobia, ableism or prejudice based on ethnicity, nationality, class, gender, gender presentation, language ability, asylum status or religious affiliation is unacceptable and will be challenged.’
The commenters note that the cruising mainly takes place in a particular area and only at night, so it poses no nuisance to the general public at all. Also, it appears to break no laws in the UK.
Occupy is fucked up and bullshit. But anyone involved with it knew that. This is not a social justice or global justice movement. It’s a group of angry young middle-class straight cis able-bodied white boys angry that they won’t do as well as Daddy, and that they’re being treated by the rich the same way that women, POC, PWD, LGBTQ people, the homeless, and indigenous people are treated. Once they get theirs back, they’ll leave, as predicted by the routine silencing at Occupy of anyone not straight, white, cis, able-bodied male. Those white males who DO get it are few and far between, and valuable as water.
And I want to hug you and make you bacon pizza and make it all good.
Oh, thank you!
The support I get around here is awesome– I appreciate you guys so much!
Tony,
Wow. Wow. What you (and your father) did is awesome (and left me with a tear in my eye).
Has she always treated you in this manner, or this this related to your pregnancy? From some of your comments about how it seems like she feels you’re “doing it wrong”, I get the impression that she feels she could do a better job than you.
There’s always been a certain level of criticism of me– but until now it’s been stuff that I’ve been able to brush off easily and as an adult I’ve realized that that’s how she relates to me and it’s not worth being upset about. I mean, who cares that she doesn’t like the color I painted the bedroom?
But this… this is way more of a personal attack than her criticisms have ever been. She has never mentioned my size, my diet, my skin care, my level of exercise, etc before I became pregnant.
[TL;DR below: Yes, my sister “knows” how to “be” pregnant better than I do.] If my sister was a dude, she would be a gold medal holding mansplainer. She knows best about everything, no matter what the subject matter is. For instance (warning: pregnancy details), I started feeling DarkFetus move at just over 18 weeks. I was excited, so I told her and she replied with “Are you sure? Most women don’t feel movement until 22 to 25 weeks.” Not only is it frustrating that she doubts every fucking thing that I say, but she was dead wrong. I tried to explain that
1) how early you feel movement has a lot to do with where the placenta is,
2) my doctor was actually a little surprised (but not worried) that I hadn’t felt anything at 16 weeks, and
3) if movement isn’t felt by 20 weeks, there is some cause for concern.
She told me that my information was wrong and I would know it when I actually felt DF move! Do I need to say it again? She has never been pregnant, but she still thinks that she knows better than I (and my doctor and my pregnancy book) do.
Anyway. End rant.
I know this answer won’t work in all circumstances (hell, it might only work once in a while), but it did work for me. Perhaps it might work for you?
The thing is, I really need this behavior of hers to stop now before it permanently damages our relationship. If things are going to get worse between us, I’d at the very least like to have my feelings known beforehand and I feel that a face-to-face discussion is the best way to achieve that. Part of the problem is that currently she doesn’t know how frustrated and hurt I am because I’ve been scared of rocking the boat, so I haven’t even hinted at how I feel.
However, if she’s going to continue to be an asshole even after I tell her exactly how I feel, then I will write her a letter after the DF is born.
(On the gift card thing: I’m right there with you for the most part with a few small exceptions– my FiL ♥s getting gift cards from the local golf pro-shop, so we usually get him a small gift card and a bottle of nice gin (his favorite at the moment is Tanqueray 10). I also will sometimes use a gift card to supplement another gift– for my younger sister’s birthday this year, I bought her a couple of cute tops from H&M and a small gift card so she could buy shorts or a skirt to go with them.)
Silisays
valuable as water.
I’m not familiar with that expression.
Being from a part of the world not given to droughts, I take it to mean something along the lines of “as significant as a fingerprint in a bucket of water”, i.e. not at all.
I suspect it’s the opposite, having just googled it. I knew water was fucking valuable, and going to become moreso, but I hadn’t realized it was becoming better recognized.
Occupy is fucked up and bullshit. But anyone involved with it knew that. This is not a social justice or global justice movement. It’s a group of angry young middle-class straight cis able-bodied white boys angry that they won’t do as well as Daddy, and that they’re being treated by the rich the same way that women, POC, PWD, LGBTQ people, the homeless, and indigenous people are treated. Once they get theirs back, they’ll leave, as predicted by the routine silencing at Occupy of anyone not straight, white, cis, able-bodied male. Those white males who DO get it are few and far between, and valuable as water.
Damn, keori’s right.
As one of those straight cis able-bodied white boys, I haven’t found any fault with the Occupy movement because of my privilege blindness.
Thanks for the different light.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ms. Daisy:
I realize that not everybody is in an economic position to do this, but if people in general stopped reflexively genuflecting before the altar of Teh Famblee™, they’d be a lot happier.
I’ve thought about this before and agree with you.
Taken a step further, where is it written that one must “love they family”? If you have relatives that consistently act like vile assholes or are generally unpleasant to be around, you’re not required to love them.
2 examples:
One of my friends, T, has described her relationship with her mother as being absolutely horrible from childhood through adulthood. The amount of abuse she’s put up with from her mother–abuse that has manifested multiple times in multiple ways–has soured her feelings about her so much that T literally has nothing nice to say about her.
Another friend, E, had a deadbeat dad who abandoned his family while E was just a few years old. He made virtually no attempt at communication for well over 25 years. Within the past 2 years, he has shown up to E’s workplace, and pulled the family card because he needed money (which my friend did not supply). He wasn’t there to see how his son was doing. Nor was he there to even patronize the establishment. He came to ask for money, based solely on the fact that he is E’s father. What arrogance!
{Btw, how did you get the trademark symbol in there?]
~~
Dear FSM:
What is the deal with all the Tone Trolls haunting FtB? Everywhere I go, I keep seeing them. They’re those boogers stuck in your nose that you can’t get out, no matter how hard you try.
I realize that not everybody is in an economic position to do this, but if people in general stopped reflexively genuflecting before the altar of Teh Famblee™, they’d be a lot happier. A chronically and irredeemably toxic relationship with a relative is worse than not having a relationship with them at all.
This is it, exactly. I think that part of the problem for many of us (and I’m definitely thinking of people like me– from a stable home environment with no abuse, etc) is that we are taught that we owe our family something ‘cos they were good to us growing up, despite the fact that we may be related to assholes.
The other thing that really bugs me is this push to forgive family members– yes sometimes it can be a good thing, but sometimes you just need to get them the hell out of your life.
In other news: apparently the body butter is not compatible with the touch screen on my phone. :-/
Tony... therefore Godsays
FossilFishy:
To post the following seems a little presumptuous, but to post it on my blog and just put a link here seems like blogwhoring
I don’t think you’re presumptuous (elsewhere, perhaps it might be bad form; here at TET, not at all) and your comment is perfectly at home here.
Especially given that this-
One need not fight the whole thing, and therein lies its downfall. One interaction at time, one misogynist slur confronted rather than ignored, one lack of privilege recognised and addressed, one voice heard and not dismissed, these are the tiny chips that we can cut out of the monster. Enough chips fallen where they may and it will no longer be able to stand. And if that happens…when that happens, we bury it and build a garden where it lay, for there will be no lack of fertiliser to sprout our seeds.
-is an ongoing battle and the Atheist/Skeptical community is no more immune to it than other groups.
Waltonsays
Occupy is fucked up and bullshit. But anyone involved with it knew that. This is not a social justice or global justice movement. It’s a group of angry young middle-class straight cis able-bodied white boys angry that they won’t do as well as Daddy, and that they’re being treated by the rich the same way that women, POC, PWD, LGBTQ people, the homeless, and indigenous people are treated. Once they get theirs back, they’ll leave, as predicted by the routine silencing at Occupy of anyone not straight, white, cis, able-bodied male. Those white males who DO get it are few and far between, and valuable as water.
Indeed. For instance, I’m often worried by the way that mainstream left-wing movements made up of mainly white people tend to completely ignore the racialized oppression faced by undocumented immigrants, asylum-seekers, and other people who are marginalized because of nationality, ethnicity and immigration status. From what I know of Occupy, there are some privileged assholes who participate – I’ve even heard about open racism and anti-immigrant bullshit being spouted by some people involved with local Occupy groups.
(But it probably varies by locality. I haven’t been involved with Occupy itself, so I can’t speak from experience here, but when I was involved in immigrants’ rights activism in Boston I did run across a movement called Ocupemos El Barrio, which focuses on immigrants’ rights issues.)
Thunk, no problem. This is a perennial issue in activist groups — as is the concern trolling about oppressed participants being “too militant” and “distracting from the important issue” and how they as “ideological purists” are “alienating” all their “allies.”
Such trolls regularly harp on how this destroyed the left in the 1960s. They seldom mention how, over the last 30-odd years, Nice Polite Middle-Class Liberals tried to be Understanding and Open-Minded and Generous to the right wing. The exception to that trend was ACT-UP, and I’m convinced it’s a big reason that there has been more progress on the GLBT front than on any other.
The tone trolls also never seem to question whether the privileged people in activist movements aren’t the ones actually being divisive, since they’re driving away the people who do a great deal of the work while getting little recognition for it and even less response to their particular issues.
If you google “Occupy” with “racism” or “sexism” or the like, you can find a lot more, although you’ll have to filter out disinformation from right-wingers who ignore the beam in their own eye.
To be fair, it’s not just the dudes who have blind spots. This bullshit went down at Slutwalk last year. Racialicious also has a number of good posts about Occupy racefail; this one is pretty thorough. (Note also this link in comments.)
Sasha Wiley wrote a good essay this May about misogyny in the movement. TW for stalking. She originally posted it to Facebook, and the stalker alluded to showed up in the comments under his real name and proceeded to demonstrate his creepitude amply.
Tony, tone trolls are everywhere. FtB isn’t any exception.
Audley, I agree about the pressure to forgive ill treatment at the hands of relatives. I suspect a correlation between believing that such pressure is valid and defending social injustices…. the valuing of “order” and “peace” over right and wrong.
Tony... therefore Godsays
FossilFishy:
As I think more about your comment @13, I am in awe of your eloquence. I kept picturing a speech like that being delivered in front of Congress or the UN.
Walton, some Occupy groups do try to reach out to the marginalized. The second link in my reply to Thunk lists some. Even Occupy Boston, with which Keori was involved, has made a point of trying to be a genuine ally to local Native American groups, e.g. joining them to mourn on Thanksgiving Day.
That said, there are nowhere near enough people in Occupy who bother to consider those with fewer privileged than themselves.
Tony... therefore Godsays
To all:
The kind words are very much appreciated.
Waltonsays
Walton, some Occupy groups do try to reach out to the marginalized. The second link in my reply to Thunk lists some.
Oh yes – and I’ve stood alongside Occupy activists at immigrants’ rights rallies (although I haven’t been involved directly with Occupy myself). And as I said, Ocupemos El Barrio does exist (I gather that there’s a chapter in San Diego as well as in Boston), and I’ve met Occupy activists who were working for immigrants’ rights.
I learned a lot, when I was in Boston, from meeting activists from community organizations like Centro Presente and the Student Immigrant Movement, which are doing inspiring work.
ChasCPetersonsays
thunk…think.
Do you really think that after three hundred and forty subthreads that nobody has ever questioned the 4-Xes-in-a-row thing?
It dates back to here. It’s not ‘wrong’: turns out the Romans did it both ways. Teh ECO does it on purpose because he likes the look of the 4 Xes. and is a poopyhead.
emburiisays
ARRGGHHHH!
So Iamcuriousblue on Justin Griffith’s thread is all like “I don’t even why you’re mad, all personal attack stuff I’ve said repeatedly just switch to ‘your behavior is’ but I’m not actually going to apologize for it”. It’s not like that counts as a personal bias he has to address, oh no, can’t we just handwave his bad behavior? It’s not like said nasty behavior is short-circuiting this entirely reasonable conversation he claims to want to have.
Being from a part of the world not given to droughts, I take it to mean something along the lines of “as significant as a fingerprint in a bucket of water”, i.e. not at all.
I’m gay, and I’m the one that said it, and I’ve never thought of it as homophobic. However, if someone thinks so I’d like to hear why. I’m not opposed to not using it.
Well, the person who’s written most at length and intelligently about such terms is banned from the Thread, so you might not get much of a response. You might want to ask at TZT.
On Monday 5 March, the UK Border Agency arrested 18 year old Aziz Hussini on his wedding day, bursting into the Registry Office and dragging him away. Waiting to walk down the aisle was Gemma, his distraught fiancée. She is a British citizen. She did not know what was happening until two Border Agency officials in their stab proof vests came out to tell her that her wedding could not happen because they had detained Aziz…
The Home Office originally tried to remove Aziz on a mass deportation charter flight on 12 March. This flight was cancelled due the security situation in Kabul, but now UKBA believes it is now safe to send a young teenager back there. They must be the only people in the world to think Afghanistan is safe. Or maybe they just don’t care?…
Aziz’s application for protection was submitted, when he was a child. A lone child, recently arrived after a traumatic journey to a bewildering new culture. Like many children seeking sanctuary, his application was dismissed and he was granted permission to stay until he reached 18 years old. And, again in common with so many in his situation, his appeal at 18 was rejected because the Immigration Tribunal found his statements to be inconsistent, and thus his evidence not credible. The evidence of a scared, confused vulnerable child was “not credible” because couldn’t name the plant or animal used to make dye for the rugs he wove as a child labourer aged 8, and because he didn’t apply for asylum in France.
The UK Border Agency wants to deport him to Afghanistan. AFGHANISTAN. They really think it’s morally acceptable to forcibly remove an 18-year-old kid to one of the poorest and most dangerous countries in the world.
And why? Because, by the accident of birth, he was born on one part of the Earth’s surface rather than another, and has an Afghan passport rather than a British one. This is the cruelty and horror of immigration control.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
After reading the clusterfuck that is Justin’s (Not Justine.) slimepit post, I do have one self centered question.
Seeing the kind of warped obsession that was shown for SallyStrange; parasite welfare recipient and purveyor of rape jokes and rape fantasies; *eyeroll and facepalm*: I have to wonder is this something that all the regulars have? If I went to the slimepit and to Pharwrongula (I do not give two shits if I spelled that correctly.) would I find a straw woman version of me.
Sorry, I have no desire to visit those sites. But anyone who does already check them out, am I one of the targets?
Just curious.
And I am sorry that I will not check for myself.
cm's changeable monikersays
@Sili, no, not really. General rule: if I post something that looks weird, stick a smiley on it and if it makes more sense, that was probably the intent. :)
—
Audley ZD: “she didn’t speak to me for damned near a month”
That’s … interesting. Maybe ask “why the self-imposed exile and subsequent weird behaviour”? /armchairpsychiatrist
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Well, the person who’s written most at length and intelligently about such terms is banned from the Thread, so you might not get much of a response. You might want to ask at TZT.
You know, just because he was told not to post in this thread doesn’t mean you can’t even say his name. He’s not Voldemort.
Emburii, don’t expect to get anywhere with Iammendaciousblue. His background is that he’s one of those menz who whine piteously at the slightest feminist critique of porn or the male gaze. Total asshole long before Elevatorgate.
RahXephon:
He’s not Voldemort.
*snork*
juliansays
@Janine
none that I’ve seen. SallyStrange just happened to be a particularly easy target for them because of quotemining.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
RahXephon and Ms. Daisy Cutter, you must remember, this is the intellectually dishonest kumbaya thread.
You know, just because he was told not to post in this thread doesn’t mean you can’t even say his name.
You know, I wasn’t consciously avoiding using his name.
I’m remembering why this thread – that would be, by name, TET – is a waste of time.
ChasCPetersonsays
No, Janine, I haven’t seen much if anything about you over there. Sally is part of pitizen lore because their favorite game is hypocrisy-gotcha and they regularly quotemine Sally’s ‘funny rape-joke’ comment as an example of how embarrassingly hypocritical all of the FTB commenters/bloggers/strawpeople/PZ-lovers are. The only other commenters that get named very regularly over there are Caine and Nerd and Josh. AE becuse he’s confronted them directly there a couple times. Aratina Cage, ditto. That’s about it. Their everyday targets continue to be Myers, Watson, Ophelia Benson, Justin Canuck-guy, Stephanie Zvan, Laden, and Jen McCreight. mostly.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
You know, I wasn’t consciously avoiding using his name.
I’m sorry, SC. Bad assumption on my part.
For what it’s worth, I took your advice and posted on TZT.
Waskow, a progressive rabbi involved in the Jewish Renewal movement, had criticized the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in a Huffington Post op-ed for “attacking the religious freedom of millions of American women and the religious freedom of American nuns” over contraception.
Donohue responded with a note to Waskow that launched an email exchange that ended with a warning, forwarded to BuzzFeed by a source close to the rabbi, that “Jews had better not make enemies of their Catholic friends since they have so few of them” (Donohue writes that this is a saying of Ed Koch, the former mayor of New York). Donohue also includes a postscript saying, “I do not have a long nose.”
Donahue also raised a recent child abuse scandal in Orthodox Jewish communities. “You need to do something about this epidemic right now,” he told Waskow, who is not Orthodox, suggesting that Jews follow the Catholic Church’s reforms in dealing with clerical abuse.
Journalist Steve Benen goes on to comment:
For the record, Koch told Gray he never made the comments Donohue attributed to him.
Prominent leaders in the Jewish community were taken aback by Donohue’s angry missives, including Rabbi David Saperstein of the Religious Action Center, who called Donohue’s email “disheartening.”
Under the circumstances, that seems like a generous adjective. As Jeffrey Goldberg joked, Donohue may not realize “it’s not 1492 and we’re not in Spain.”
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Thank you, Chas.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Janine @44:
I still don’t understand what the opposition to TET’s remodeling is all about.
emburiisays
Ms. Daisy Cutter, I’m noticing that. His total lack of self-awareness really isn’t worth addressing anymore, even for me. And I actually tried to be reasonable with that Phil G ERVite, though I wonder if he would have ever answered the challenge.
A follow up to my post at #49. Here’s an excerpt from one of Rabbi Waskow’s emails to Bill Donohue (after Donohue had told the Rabbi he was sticking his nose in where it didn’t belong.)
Tens of thousands of Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu women work for or study at various Catholic-sponsored universities and hospitals that involve and hire them — and that receive my/ our tax money. (They are quite different from fully religious Catholic institutions, like churches, dioceses, or the NCCB, that do NOT receive tax money.)
Many many of those women who are hired by or are students of these tax-supported non-religious institutions need contraception, but can’t afford it without insurance.
They are being pressured by — not your Church, since most of the nuns utterly disagree and they too are part of your Church, thanks be to God — but by your NCCB, to forego contraception because they can’t afford it without insurance.
And they are being pressured even though the President has agreed that the cost of that insurance will NOT come from the pockets of the Catholic hierarchy or these Catholic-sponsored institutions.
Those women are my business. All of them, including the Catholic women who in shaping their own religious consciences (did you know that women are capable of doing that?) have concluded that contraception is ethical and moral.
For what it’s worth, I took your advice and posted on TZT.
Thanks. No problem.
(By the way, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of fantasy/sci fi references sail right over my head. Haven’t read the books, haven’t seen the movies, don’t know the names.)
Silisays
As Rutee said. See here.
I suspected as much.
I guess it raises awareness, but fact is most of us shit in water.
diannesays
Walton @38: In the US, a person married to a citizen automatically gets right to stay in the country (though there are still gotchas, including a time limit on filling out the paperwork to prove you’ve been married). Is that also true in the UK? And did the border agency deliberately stop the marriage in order to be able to deport Aziz?
All of them, including the Catholic women who in shaping their own religious consciences (did you know that women are capable of doing that?) have concluded that contraception is ethical and moral.
Zing!
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
(By the way, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of fantasy/sci fi references sail right over my head. Haven’t read the books, haven’t seen the movies, don’t know the names.)
Oh, well, Voldemort is the Big Bad of Harry Potter, frequently referred to as “He Who Must Not Be Named” by the wizarding public because he was so terri-bad that people thought saying his name would make him return.
Hence why I was riffing off that when I thought you were intentionally not saying SG’s name, which you weren’t.
Krasnaya Koshkasays
I gave up my relatives 25 years ago. But I hung on to my sister.
For me, it was easy to dump my relatives, I felt few ties to them and they only made me feel like shit. I saved up $400, had a promotion with the company I’d been working near San Francisco (my job was in San Leandro) and moved. I was ridiculously naive about moving but it worked out.
But I’m a lesbian and I’m terribly used to my family cornering me to give me gawd’s word. I’m very used to having to get out of my family’s faces so they can continue their inertia.
When I first started a Facebook account all my terribly boring and mocking cousins wanted to be friended, of course. And I friended them. And they continued the behavior of our childhood. “You’re an angry dyke!”
I don’t need that in my life. My actual family means nothing more to me than the babushka I helped buy groceries today. Probably less, since babushka has never called me an angry dyke after I gave her rubles.
My sister now calls me an angry dyke because I’m asking her to somewhat make an effort to repay the thousands I gave her.
Criminy, I’ve spent most of my life bettering
diannesays
Voldemort is the Big Bad of Harry Potter, frequently referred to as “He Who Must Not Be Named” by the wizarding public because he was so terri-bad that people thought saying his name would make him return.
In the 7th book, it turns out that saying his name really does make his followers able to find you. Given that Rowlings spent a lot of time in the first 6 books trying to establish that not calling Voldemort by name was just freaking people out for no good reason and causing a “the terrorists have won” situation (i.e. people changing their behavior to suit Voldemort), not sure what that revelation is supposed to mean…Rowlings decided that restricting one’s vocabulary is ok after all?
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Rowlings decided that restricting one’s vocabulary is ok after all?
I stopped reading after the sixth book, so I never saw that. I’ve been put off a bit by Rowling since the whole “Dumbledore’s gay but I wasn’t gonna ever put that in the books” thing. Making your characters gay, but only in your head, is not a brave bit of activism.
Also, and this may be Harry Potter Heresy, but I never thought Voldemort was all that good of a villain. I never felt his motivations were explained very well, other than him being an egomaniac.
Yeah, love leaves scars. Even family that loves you and you love back can make you hurt — there are things people can say to me that make me cringe like a whipped dog deep down inside (although, of course, I can never let it show), and people you care about can be extremely effective in causing pain even when they don’t intend to, and especially when they mean to. And I don’t doubt that I’ve unintentionally caused hurt to the people I care most about.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Krasnaya Koshka, sad how many LGBT people have to create their own families.
At least you did.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
I never understood the adults who read the Potter series.
(Speaking as a middle aged grump.)
But the trope of “he who must not be named” is very old. It hardly originated with Potter.
Waltonsays
Walton @38: In the US, a person married to a citizen automatically gets right to stay in the country (though there are still gotchas, including a time limit on filling out the paperwork to prove you’ve been married).
Well, in my understanding of US immigration law, the US citizen spouse has to file an I-130 petition, which has to be approved by US Citizenship and Immigration Services. After that, the non-citizen spouse can apply for “adjustment of status” to become a lawful permanent resident. Unfortunately, some people are ineligible for adjustment of status – for instance, because they entered the US without inspection, or have been unlawfully present for more than a certain period – so there are undocumented people who are married to US citizens but nonetheless can’t get green cards.
Is that also true in the UK?
In the UK, the spouse or civil partner of a British citizen, or of a foreign national permanently settled in the UK, can apply for a visa (if they’re outside the UK) or for an extension of stay (if they’re already in the UK). But it’s not automatic – they have to meet a number of requirements, including showing that the couple can support themselves without recourse to public funds, and that the non-citizen spouse or partner has sufficient competence in the English language. (See the UKBA website for more information. In most cases, the non-citizen spouse or partner is initially allowed to stay for a probationary period of 2 years; if the couple are still married or civil-partnered at the end of the 2-year period, the non-citizen spouse or partner can apply to settle in the UK permanently. (There’s also a special concession for victims of domestic violence, who are allowed to stay if the relationship broke down during the probationary period because of violence by their spouse or partner.)
Iammendaciousblue just made it under Justin’s portcullis to scream about “Daisy Cutter’s hateful rhetoric,” when what I said was light-years milder than anything those scum-sucking bottom feeders said.
He also whined,
You think this is some kind of productive promotion of social justice? That’s utterly fucking laughable. This is more the kind of rhetoric that was going around the New Left at the point where it splintered into hateful little cults like the Weather Underground and the RCP.
Perfect example of the concern trolling I talked about up there at #30 in this thread. (Oh, and none of them ever seem to mention that law enforcement agency infiltration played a huge role in that splintering — and that people who were sick of being marginalized in those groups as much as they were in mainstream society made for very weak links in the chain.)
Waltonsays
And did the border agency deliberately stop the marriage in order to be able to deport Aziz?
I’m not sure, given that – per above – being married to a British citizen wouldn’t have automatically conferred the right to stay in any case. But his having family ties in this country does mean that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights may be implicated. Apparently his case is now going to judicial review, so hopefully he’ll win in court.
diannesays
I’ve been put off a bit by Rowling since the whole “Dumbledore’s gay but I wasn’t gonna ever put that in the books” thing. Making your characters gay, but only in your head, is not a brave bit of activism.
Hmm…I see your point, but don’t entirely agree. I felt that it was pretty clear what was going on with Dumbledore and what’s his name (the last generation’s villain) within the context of the books as written. Not much was overtly said about Dumbledore’s sexuality because it’s from the point of view of a bunch of kids who probably don’t realize that older people have sexuality. I would have liked to see more homosexual couples among the students-there seemed to be a lot of compulsory heterosexuality at Hogwarts, but the Dumbledore characterization per se didn’t particularly put me off. It’s absolutely not brave activism, though.
I never thought Voldemort was all that good of a villain. I never felt his motivations were explained very well, other than him being an egomaniac.
I liked Voldemort as a villain _because_ his only motivation was egomania. Egomania is the most common reason for real life villainy (IMHO), so why shouldn’t it be in fiction as well? What I didn’t feel was well justified was his success: why would people follow him? After he got power, I suppose, it was to get close to power, but why did anyone ever listen to him?
Hey, PZ: [points upward] “Gynocracy” the MRA troll is back.
diannesays
I never understood the adults who read the Potter series.
Because some of us find it a fun way to waste time and brain cells.
diannesays
Apparently his case is now going to judicial review, so hopefully he’ll win in court.
One hopes. Keep us posted?
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
It was so good of you to share that little turd nugget, gynocracy. Is PZ also to blame for you being a shitstain?
What a weak willed little pissant.
Waltonsays
One hopes. Keep us posted?
I will. I only learned about the case today via the National Coalition of Anti-Deportation Campaigns; they have a number of pages on their website about people currently fighting deportation. I’m hoping to get involved with them, or with the Campaign to Close Campsfield, which campaigns against immigration detention.
Beatricesays
I found Dumbledore’s homosexuality troubling because:
a) what RahXephon said
b) You have one gay man in the whole series. And that one single gay man was in love with a genocidal maniac, to the point where he sort of a bit planned world domination with him (and there was also that Arianna business).
c) He’s also a “safe” gay man. He’s a doddering old fool (when he’s not being a manipulative jerk), someone who you can’t really imagine having icky gay sex. Except maybe with Grindesomething (who’s a genocidal maniac).
d) Remus was totally gay. That’s why she married him to Tonks
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I felt that it was pretty clear what was going on with Dumbledore and what’s his name (the last generation’s villain) within the context of the books as written.
Grindelwald, I think was his name. As far as that, I read those books in my pre-teen/teen years, and even as a gay kid with an accelerated reading ability, the only way I interpreted it was that while Dumbledore and Grindelwald ended up enemies, Dumbledore felt wistful about losing a close friend “to the Dark Side” or whatever they call it in the Potterverse, not that they were together.
I don’t think that speaks to my reading ability (not that that’s what you were getting at, sorry), but to how vaguely it was written.
I liked Voldemort as a villain _because_ his only motivation was egomania. Egomania is the most common reason for real life villainy (IMHO), so why shouldn’t it be in fiction as well?
I guess to me, just because it’s realistic doesn’t make it compelling. “I’m evil because evil is fun” or “I’m evil because I’m the only important person in the universe” is just not satisfying when I want an explanation for why a character would do something so horrible.
After he got power, I suppose, it was to get close to power, but why did anyone ever listen to him?
Much like how Jesus goes from precocious child to preachy, woodless carpenter, I think it went like this: “So originally he was Tom Riddle and was mostly normal, and then *mumble mumble* AND NOW HE’S VOLDEMORT! SCARY BOOGITYBOO!”
I didn’t read the books or see any but the first movie, so I can’t comment on Remus Lupin, but I’m familiar enough through “fandom osmosis” with Dumbledore’s character and with how Rowling handled his sexuality to agree with Beatrice’s other points.
Krasnaya Koshkasays
@63 Janine:
Yes, I at least did create my own family. You have to, if you’re homo. I know you know.
I moved to San Franisco in 1987 and one half of my friends died within two years, of AIDS. It was such a harsh greeting into homosexuality.
(Most of my friends killed themselves –the most horrific with a shotgun–when they learned they had “an incurable disease”. I have four four friends who wefe diagnosed HIV+ and still live. And thive. They do the AIDS rides.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
1987? Damn, that was about the worst time of the crisis. Great timing.
Beatricesays
I admit, my conviction about Remus Lupin being gay might have more to do with fanfiction than actual books.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Beatrice, would you believe me if I told you that there was a gay subtext for a Xander and Spike pairing? I can point you to some fanfiction.
Hi pharyngulates. I am a rare commenter, but I really, really itch to ask one question I would like to have answer to, so i use the endless thread in hope for an answer.
The Q – why are gender based insults considerd to be wrong on this site while insults in general are not?
Let me clear one thing, before you start yelling at me and calling me dumbass, cupkake and suggesting showing porcupines up my rectum – my native language is czech. That language has four grammatic genders and many nouns are, in a sense, gender specific – including names of inanimate objects and, of course, most insults. We have only very little “gender neutral” insults (from the top of my head I can remember only two, relatively mild and with very specific use). Even many of the “animal” insults (like you pig, you ass etc.) are gender specific, because for example “osel” (male ass/donkey) is usualy used against men, but “oslice” (female ass/donkey) is not usualy used against women. And “husa” (female geese) is used as insult against women, but “houser” (male geese) is not used as insult for men. Et cetera, I could go on and on.
Even seemingly neutral insults, like “idiot” or “blbec” (dumbass) have to be in many contexts altered due to the gender of the person being insulted, because the language itself is gender specific – verbs are conjugated differently when a woman speaks than when man speaks, adjectives change according to gender of the noun etc.
This said, I really do not connect to the difference between calling a man a dick and awomen a cunt. Not that I advocate use of either of those, especialy as ad hominem fallacy. Not that I use either of those (or other insults) unless very, very extremely upset. But I do not see the difference between calling someone an asshole or one of those previous two words (and again, btw. word asshole has absolutely no aequivalent in czech – it can be translated in biological terms, but not as an insult). Whereas here I get the impression, that calling someone an asshole is perfectly OK, while calling someone dick/cunt is not. It boggles my mind, because taking the gender of someone into account, when insulting them, to me is not the same as insulting them because of their gender (which is wrong and I do not dispute that). My language and therefore my thinking always takes the gender into account – mine as well as that of others.
Is there some cultural context that explains and justifies this perspective and makes this issue in english principially different? Am I missing some cultural/historical/linguistic issue? If so, please show me to some site or some discussion on Pharyngula, or Blaghag, or wherever, where it is explained – i tried google and search site function already, but either nothing pops up, or way too much pops up. So I decided to enter the lion den and ask the question, even when I know I might upset someone.
I’ve come to love Wonkette’s Sunday feature– Sundays With Jamie Kilstein And The Lord: Why Isn’t Adam Carolla Funny?
What upset me so much is when I posted that Adam is a sexist fuckhole, I started to get responses from a litany of white dudes who felt that their hero was being oppressed by my words. Thank God for Twitter! Without it, I would not have seen the pale hordes come to defend such an oppressed minority: a rich white male.
Why, I remember when the Adam Carollas of the world had to march to obtain the right to vote, fight for equal pay (a struggle which started after the cancelation of The Man Show and continues today), and Adams everywhere are still fighting for full abortion rights in many states!
The fact that dudes on Twitter would rather shit on women than bear criticism of someone whose podcast they like baffles me. These are the same people making sure to “@” Adam on Twitter, thinking maybe they will become friends! Who wouldn’t want to be friends with a lonely sack of shit desperately prying open the door to star-fucking?!
It sounds all too familiar, but I do like Jaime’s what the fuck is wrong with you people? response to the situation.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
I guess to me, just because it’s realistic doesn’t make it compelling. “I’m evil because evil is fun” or “I’m evil because I’m the only important person in the universe” is just not satisfying when I want an explanation for why a character would do something so horrible.
I feel the same way when people do evil shit in a make believe god, it’s hard to believe even in books sometimes…
People suck, reason and explanation enough when the writer does it right. (Even sometimes when they don’t…)
Much like how Jesus goes from precocious child to preachy, woodless carpenter, I think it went like this: “So originally he was Tom Riddle and was mostly normal, and then *mumble mumble* AND NOW HE’S VOLDEMORT! SCARY BOOGITYBOO!”
Tom Riddle was never normal. There were signs and clearly stuff wrong with him early on. Unless you are just talking about his looks. Remember what he did to Hagrid and his spider for no good reason?
He was incapable to love or care about anything other than himself due to being conceived while his father was under a love potion.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Here is a simplified answer, Charly. Most gender based insults are based on the idea that a woman is of less worth than a man, that being a woman is something that is unfortunate.
Silisays
I admit, my conviction about Remus Lupin being gay might have more to do with fanfiction than actual books.
To show my stereotyping: Gilderoy Lockhart?
thunk = ∫ SQRRAWK! d(MQG)says
Chas:
Yes, it’s fine. It’s not how i’m used to seeing it though.
Walton:
Oh fuck. Yes… poor kid. “Sorry, you’ filthy immigrant, back to the third world where you belong!”
It’s truly dipshittery.
Koshka: Ouch with the dipshit family. *condolences*
Momo Elektrasays
This said, I really do not connect to the difference between calling a man a dick and awomen a cunt.
Because having a dick (being male and thus superior) is not considered as bad as having a cunt (being a woman and thus inferior).
The difference is in the supposed superiority and inferiority (and gender roles) that history and culture attribute to people depending on which parts they have (and thus what roles to play).
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
Here is a simplified answer, Charly. Most gender based insults are based on the idea that a woman is of less worth than a man, that being a woman is something that is unfortunate.
Word.
Even many of the “animal” insults (like you pig, you ass etc.) are gender specific, because for example “osel” (male ass/donkey) is usualy used against men, but “oslice” (female ass/donkey) is not usualy used against women.
It’s really simplified in English. A jackass is a jackass and a donkey is a donkey. There isn’t a specification of gender in the word.
I have no idea what advice to give on this count. But there are plenty of international people and linguists that can hopefully shed some light on this.
I’d be interested on what are you supposed to do with such examples.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Tom Riddle was never normal.
Actually, I thought his characterization was inconsistent throughout the series. You first hear of him when Harry gets his diary, and the “Tom Riddle” inside the book does seem pretty normal. Then later on you see him as a teenager and he’s more cold or even a bit sociopathic, and then she pulled out the scene where Dumbledore meets him in the orphanage and he sets a dresser on fire to show how he was “OMG EEEEEEEVIL” even as a small child.
Now, I don’t know why Rowling did that, unless she felt she couldn’t have evil children in her children’s books, and I think she did say the books got more adult as they went along.
Beatricesays
Beatrice, would you believe me if I told you that there was a gay subtext for a Xander and Spike pairing? I can point you to some fanfiction.
It’s been a long time since I’ve watched Buffy, so no subtext comes to mind, but I believe you.
If it’s good, give a link.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
JAL, a male donkey is a jack. A female donkey is a jenny.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
He was incapable to love or care about anything other than himself due to being conceived while his father was under a love potion.
I don’t remember that part, but to be fair, it is a 7-volume book series comprising about a gajillion words that I read years ago, so I’m bound to forget a few plot points.
Momo Elektrasays
Actually, I thought his characterization was inconsistent throughout the series. You first hear of him when Harry gets his diary, and the “Tom Riddle” inside the book does seem pretty normal. Then later on you see him as a teenager and he’s more cold or even a bit sociopathic, and then she pulled out the scene where Dumbledore meets him in the orphanage and he sets a dresser on fire to show how he was “OMG EEEEEEEVIL” even as a small child.
Now, I don’t know why Rowling did that, unless she felt she couldn’t have evil children in her children’s books, and I think she did say the books got more adult as they went along.
I thought that was meant to show that Tom Riddle learned how to fool others and became better at it the older he got.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Beatrice, there was no subtext. Well, except when Xander told Spike that he (Xander) was moist and delicious. This was when Spike was newly chipped.
But there is Xander/Spike fiction. But I am not wading into it. I was being a smartass earlier.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
Actually, I thought his characterization was inconsistent throughout the series. You first hear of him when Harry gets his diary, and the “Tom Riddle” inside the book does seem pretty normal. Then later on you see him as a teenager and he’s more cold or even a bit sociopathic, and then she pulled out the scene where Dumbledore meets him in the orphanage and he sets a dresser on fire to show how he was “OMG EEEEEEEVIL” even as a small child.
He was using the diary to use Harry to get what he wanted. What was he supposed to do? Say “I murdered your parents and kill animals now go do this for me please?”. Sociopaths are very good at acting or appearing normal and manipulation.
I don’t think it’s inconsistent at all. Just the way the story goes and how it’s told you don’t see what’s going on with him and his followers unless Harry is there or through a past telling. So you see more evil as you go.
JAL, a male donkey is a jack. A female donkey is a jenny.
o.O
Really?
Nevermind then..
Momo Elektrasays
On Xander and Spike:
Momo Elektrasays
But the song is kind of offensive. Argh.
This shouldn’t be a matter to laugh about. Sorry.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Oh! Dear!
Beatricesays
Beatrice, there was no subtext. Well, except when Xander told Spike that he (Xander) was moist and delicious. This was when Spike was newly chipped.
But there is Xander/Spike fiction. But I am not wading into it. I was being a smartass earlier.
Ups, it flew right over my head.
I’ve seen people interpret a look between characters as significant subtext, so I figured – what do I know, it could be.
JAL: I’d be interested on what are you supposed to do with such examples.
I am just trying to wrap my head around something that makes no intuitive sense to me. It seems (to me), that the influence of someone’s native language has very strong influence on their thinking and this can lead to some serious misunderstandings.
I do believe the cultural/linguistic context of gender specific insults in english might be different from that in czech. I am hoping to learn about this context and therefore improve my knowledge of the language.
Czech is very, very rich language, when it comes to insults, our ancestors vere very inventive in this regard. But I am not aware of any insult being specificaly intended to belittle women just for being women. Not that sexism and mysoginy do not exist here. Not that insults against women are not used in such context – and I destest such use, because it shows the person is immensely stupid (which goes both ways of course).
But, as said, taking someone’s gender into account is necessary even if you want them to pass the marmelade.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Czech is very, very rich language, when it comes to insults, our ancestors vere very inventive in this regard. But I am not aware of any insult being specificaly intended to belittle women just for being women. Not that sexism and mysoginy do not exist here. Not that insults against women are not used in such context – and I destest such use, because it shows the person is immensely stupid (which goes both ways of course).
So, how many women are now ready to emigrate to the Czech Republic?
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
@JAL
As I said, I read these books as a kid, and apparently my memory is even foggier than I thought.
Beatricesays
Charly,
But I am not aware of any insult being specificaly intended to belittle women just for being women.
You don’t use whore as an insult?
Or czech vulgar word for vagina?
Mattirsays
I always figured Riddle was a sociopath due to his very high genetic risk (seems like both his maternal and paternal line were quite a ways towards the callous/uncaring/manipulative end of the spectrum) and his severely pathological upbringing – orphanages are bad places, and especially bad for children with the misfortune to spend their first 3-4 years in them. This is fairly well described in the 6th book.
On another note, I hate it when I relate that I’ve been offered an opportunity to speak about something and am all excited about this, and the person to whom I speak manages to respond in a way that conveys that it’s ALL ABOUT THEM. (By saying, verbatim, “Great, you can talk about [MEEEEEE]!”) And then sulks when I respond by looking puzzled and hurt.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
But I am not aware of any insult being specificaly intended to belittle women just for being women.
I seriously doubt that. It’s far more likely that, like most men (including me until recently) you simply haven’t noticed it. Please try to notice it and please be horrified about it rather than trying really really hard not to see it so you can continue believing it’s not as bad as it probably is. Too many people make that mistake.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
As I said, I read these books as a kid, and apparently my memory is even foggier than I thought.
No problem.
I hope I didn’t come off too strong or snarky. I saw your #92 after I posted by #95.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
@JAL
You’re fine.
I probably shouldn’t have been giving my opinions about a book I barely remember anyway.
opposablethumbssays
@ Charly,
Janine and Momo Elektra have already explained the main point, that most gendered insults are based on/draw their “insult-strength” from framing male=superior and female=inferior.
I just wanted to add that the kinds of insults (in addition to gendered ones) that are not tolerated are all those based on attributes we cannot choose and/or are born with (such as skin colour, sexual orientation, disability, not being neurotypical etc.), as opposed to attributes we actively choose (such as religion, politics). The insults that are generally embraced are those based on things that apply across these congenital divisions (such as arsehole), things that are based on willful ignorance (such as religidiot, liberturd) and well-known or creative composites of things that are harmful or otherwise obnoxious (such as douchehat or shit-for-brains).
opposablethumbssays
… and damn, technically speaking I just misused “congenital” since some of those are/can be hereditary.
Beatricesays
Look, I’m from Croatia. We are pretty inventive with our insults.
(Warning : translating multi-worded insults is difficult and often results in weirdness)
It could even be said for some pretty nasty ones that they are not sexist even though they are gendered. With that I mean telling someone “odi u pičku materinu” (to go (back) to their mother’s cunt) and “odi u kurac” (to go (back) to cock). As far as I know, they are used equally and they basically both wish you were never born.
But “pička” (cunt) is used as a separate insult, in more or less the same way its English equivalent is used. There is also “kurva” (whore). Then we have all the insults to the mother of the recipient. And there are some pretty nasty sexist ones there too.
I mean, there are insults where “kurac” (cock) is used in a negative way, but it’s not even comparable to the use of cunt or some other misogynistic ones.
I find it hard to believe that Czechs are so very different from basically the rest of the world.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
Charly, the answers that Janine and Momo gave you are correct and sum up the issue here. I’ll add that many gendered insults have to do with attributes that are specifically (culturally) associated with a particular gender: “dick” is about being pushy and assertive, “pussy” is about being weak and cowardly. “Slut,” “whore,” and “dyke” are all words that insult women for getting out of their place by putting them back in that place – telling them that their only value is sexual. “Bitch” is interesting because of its dual meanings – either a woman who is too assertive or a person who is dominated, usually sexually.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
You’re fine.
I probably shouldn’t have been giving my opinions about a book I barely remember anyway.
I find that is quite easy to do.
Either enough time or enough books and things all meld. For me at least, I know I’ve been ripped by my fellow book nerd because I didn’t remember one detail in one sentences in a series of five books.
Of course, I’m just as bad.
Loved it when I could remember who owned the feral black cat (before it had to go feral ) in King’s Landing and my friend couldn’t. =)
Silisays
Still haven’t found that damn receipt, but in looking for it I’ve finally cleared out the Big-Box-of-Receipts-And-Other-Important-Stuff-That-I-Haven’t-Had-The-Energy-to-Look-At™, and I’ve vacuumed away most of the bunny-sized dustbunnies.
And I’ve actually made my bed in what feels like the first time in two months.
I hope I can keep this up, because I actually feel far better now than I did when I awoke.
Beatricesays
As far as I know, they are used equally and they basically both wish you were never born.
Although, I try to avoid using the word pička anyway, since its sexist use can’t really be separated from it, even when the insult in which it is used is one of the equal-opportunity-bashing pairing.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
…and well-known or creative composites of things that are harmful or otherwise obnoxious (such as douchehat or shit-for-brains).
I save sentient sack of shit for the really repulsive trolls. I did not know until I read the clusterfuck at Justin’s blog that a few of the slimepitter seem to think that being called a sack of shit was a call for a libel lawsuit. I knew about them thinking that telling a person to fuck themselves with a dead animal was rape joke but, well, er… I am not sure what they are thinking.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
Also, “bastard” is a mother-based insult, which has roots in sexual control of women. I wouldn’t say directly misogynistic probably, but there’s a link.
Anyway.
We don’t have a problem with being mean or rude around here. There are goodreasons for that. Insults that contribute to oppression, though, are not cool here. Those are usually insults that cause “splash damage” to people who are already suffering from systematic oppression by society.
Silisays
I’ve seen people interpret a look between characters as significant subtext, so I figured – what do I know, it could be.
I do that.
But at least I also have photographic evidence showing my OTP engaging in a handjob.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
“Bitch” is interesting because of its dual meanings – either a woman who is too assertive or a person who is dominated, usually sexually.
One could say that this a classic example of duckspeak.
opposablethumbssays
Sili, really? Mind if I ask who your OTP are? (Don’t answer if you don’t feel like it, obviously!)
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
Also, “bastard” is a mother-based insult, which has roots in sexual control of women. I wouldn’t say directly misogynistic probably, but there’s a link.
I’d say yes to that. Since men got to sleep around with no shame, just the women they slept with and the children born from it dealt with it.
Plus it’s a death sentence for the women usually to make your husband a cuckold by sleeping with someone else, especially when a child is born in that situation.
There are some people that still do use bastard as an insult to the slutty slutty mother, I’ve heard it enough myself.
But I don’t know if the general usage and thought of just being another way to call someone an asshole is completely divorced from it’s original meaning enough to make it a non-issue.
In general, you can certainly tell when someone is using bastard as sexist insult or just another way to say asshole.
TL;DR: I dunno. I haz confused myself.
Louissays
Louis’ Advice #187261784:
Never drink a bottle of Jagermeister and 8 Red Bulls.
You’re welcome.
Louis
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
What size bottle?
(I know I will regret asking this.)
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
I’ve seen people interpret a look between characters as significant subtext, so I figured – what do I know, it could be.
I do this too. I am apparently extremely quick to read queer subtexts into things.
My ships are all destructive and unhealthy. I’ve wondered lately if that’s a problem, since they somewhat follow the patterns of my unhealthy relationships, or if it’s harmless. *shrug* Dunno.
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
I do that.
But at least I also have photographic evidence showing my OTP engaging in a handjob.
My thought process when I read OTP:
“OPP YEAH YOU KNOW ME”
“wait…that’s wrong. I don’t know you.”
“OHHHHH OTP, wtf is that?”
“OTP I DON’T KNOW THEE”
“wtf is wrong with me?”
*goes to google*
“wait…I know what’s wrong with me, I came to find out what OTP meant…”
I’m guessing in the context of fanfics it means one true pairing and not one true password.
This I humbly submit as evidence being awake for 24hrs is bad and will hope this makes my Broken Brain(tm) submit to sleep finally.
Louissays
Janine,
750mL.
Louis
JAL: Snark, Sarcasm & Bitternesssays
I do this too. I am apparently extremely quick to read queer subtexts into things.
I totally do this too.
It really pisses my friend off when I’m shouting at the TV “OMFG did you SEE that look! {Prediction of what to come}” turns out I’m right…
“How did you know?!? Why did you ruin it for me?!? You saw this before you big meanie”
If I’m wrong they just laugh at my weirdness and ask how I come up with such crap ideas.
Oops.
Beatrice: You don’t use whore as an insult?
Or czech vulgar word for vagina?
“Whore” as a general swear word when I hit my thumb with hammer I use, as an insult too – but against men as well as against women, since its meaning in czech shifted in the last century (see further).
Czech vulgar equivalent for vagina as insult – yes, althoug only in very rare instances. I generally avoid using insults, I prefer to stop communicating instead.
But czech vulgar equivalent for penis is just as insulting. And czech vulgar equivalent for promiscuous males. And I use them as well, because when I want to insult someone…
Josh: I seriously doubt that. It’s far more likely that, like most men (including me until recently) you simply haven’t noticed it. Please try to notice it and please be horrified about it rather than trying really really hard not to see it so you can continue believing it’s not as bad as it probably is. Too many people make that mistake.
I did not say they do not exist, I said I am not aware of them.
And I said that there is such use of insults in czech. I do not advocate such use. But when I want to insult someone, I have virtualy no “gender neutral” option to, for example, vulgar names for genitalia. Czech simply does not have them. And my thinking does not have them. I can learn them in english, but I cannot get them into my thinking.
For example, even when I know, that “asshole” is gender neutral, in my mind it is masculine simply because czech (biological) translation “řitní otvor” is masculine. I therefore do not intuitively see this as gender neutral insult, even if I know it is such.
If I want to really, really swear at a man, calling him “dick” is the best option (in czech). Calling him an “asshole” is not an option, because that insult does not exist in that language. Calling him some existing gender neutral insult is not an option, because as I said, those are mostly mild and very specific (like “tele” – calf- which is used as insult for people with immature behaviour).
Beatrice: I mean, there are insults where “kurac” (cock) is used in a negative way, but it’s not even comparable to the use of cunt or some other misogynistic ones.
Well, czech words “čurák”, “kokot” and “vocas” (all vulgar names for male genitals) are very insulting words indeed and I do not think they are somehow “less” insulting than “píča” or “kunda”, which are its opposite. I definitively would not recommend to someone using either of those in live conversation, since they are very likely to lead to some serius punching in the face.
As for word “kurva” yes, this is an example where one gender based word is widely used as general swear word and an insult. But it has now virtually nothing to do with either sex nor promiscuity, but as an insult implying lack of character and is used against men and women as well. Its feminine gender is now de facto only grammatical, although it has probably originated as sexist insult now when I think about it, but is not used as such anymore.
Cipher: “dick” is about being pushy and assertive, “pussy” is about being weak and cowardly
This is what I was looking for, because I was not aware of this. If insulting someone with vulgar name for genitalia ever has had the same connotation in Czech, it definitively does not have them now. Calling a man “čůrák” or a woman “píča” means in both cases, that they are pushy and assertive.
I am going to think about it some more. Thanks for the input.
___________
As a side note, we have three rude words for exkrement “hovno”, “sračka” and “bobek”. Each has different grammatical gender – first is neuter, second is feminine, third is masculine. Ain’t that language beautifull?
Silisays
Thanks, thumbs, but I am being slightly facetious.
But here, have a whole three seconds of explicit backseat action in stupid children’s cartoon.
Louissays
Janine,
Thanks for telling me! ;-)
My brain is broken, I was getting confused at what the FAIL step was. ;-)
Louis
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
How much of that is put in deliberately? I’ve always been wondering how much attention writers pay to fandom, at least when it comes to series.
The makers of Xena and Buffy were very open about them paying attention to the then new gathering of fans on the internet.
Silisays
750mL.
Ack.
Come to Rhinebeck. I’ll bring some Gammel Dansk.
Silisays
My ships are all destructive and unhealthy. I’ve wondered lately if that’s a problem, since they somewhat follow the patterns of my unhealthy relationships, or if it’s harmless. *shrug* Dunno.
I consider mine pretty much rainbows and unicornfarts, but I project far too much of my own kinks into their (nonexistent) sexlives.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
“Whore” as a general swear word when I hit my thumb with hammer I use, as an insult too – but against men as well as against women, since its meaning in czech shifted in the last century (see further).
The fact that an insult is used against men as well as women is not actually sufficient to make it not a sexist insult. There are sexist words used against men that are used directly to imply that they are womanlike and therefore inferior. (“Bitch” and “pussy” are both commonly used in this way, for instance.)
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Charly, all of that would be fine if non Czech speakers were demanding that their sensibilities be catered to in Czech. But you want to know what the fuss is about in the English speaking realm.
Just note, there are people who argue that gendered words like “bitch” and “cunt” have lost their gendered background. They are wrong.
And I need a sample size of more than one when it comes to if Czech insults are gendered or not.
Beatricesays
Charly,
For example, even when I know, that “asshole” is gender neutral, in my mind it is masculine simply because czech (biological) translation “řitní otvor” is masculine. I therefore do not intuitively see this as gender neutral insult, even if I know it is such.
Unless I started calling people “analni otvor” (anal opening) or “rectum” (which would be of masculine gender in croatian too), I couldn’t really insult anyone by calling them an asshole in my mother tongue either. But the point of using that word is that both men and women have one, even if the word is gendered in our languages I would for that reason consider that insult not gendered. But it would sound stupid. :)
As for word “kurva” yes, this is an example where one gender based word is widely used as general swear word and an insult. But it has now virtually nothing to do with either sex nor promiscuity, but as an insult implying lack of character and is used against men and women as well. Its feminine gender is now de facto only grammatical, although it has probably originated as sexist insult now when I think about it, but is not used as such anymore.
From this, I gather that you don’t really get what people mean when they say that they are against gendered insults. Using a word against both men and women doesn’t erase its inherent meaning.
Waltonsays
I admit, my conviction about Remus Lupin being gay might have more to do with fanfiction than actual books.
Huh? I thought that he was dating Nymphadora Tonks? I could be wrong, it’s a while since I read the books.
Then again, I’ve never read any fanfiction of the sort to which you allude.*
(*I’m too innocent for the internet. I still haven’t recovered from the time Sili told me that there is such a thing as Jeeves/Wooster slashfic. Noooooo.)
What upset me so much is when I posted that Adam is a sexist fuckhole, I started to get responses from a litany of white dudes who felt that their hero was being oppressed by my words. Thank God for Twitter! Without it, I would not have seen the pale hordes come to defend such an oppressed minority: a rich white male.
Ah, yes, the Overrated White Dude, object of fierce veneration among the privileged and mediocre-minded.
You know which OWD always chaps my hide? Stevie Ray Vaughn. Yes, he was talented, but I got goddamned tired of bringing up the subject of blues in music discussions and having nitwits yell “SRV!!!” like they were yelling “ROOOON PAAAUUUL!! STEEEVE HOOLLT!!” Vaughn stood on a lot of shoulders that half these nitwits had never even heard of.
Cipher:
I am apparently extremely quick to read queer subtexts into things.
Using a word against both men and women doesn’t erase its inherent meaning.
Just to expand the point here, the insult used against a woman places her back in her “rightful” place. The insult used against a man is intended to shame because he is like a shameful creature.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
Huh? I thought that he was dating Nymphadora Tonks? I could be wrong, it’s a while since I read the books.
He married Tonks, but I think Beatrice was saying that she’s decided he’s gay anyway.
I love my Tonks.
(*I’m too innocent for the [I]nternet. I still haven’t recovered from the time Sili told me that there is such a thing as Jeeves/Wooster slashfic. Noooooo.)
So you haven’t come across the recent deluge of Sherlock/Watson and Thor/Loki stuff?
Word of advice: Stay away from Tumblr.
Actually, that generally not bad advice.
Silisays
Congrats to the ratty grandmother! Are you gonna put a notice in the paper when the grandratties arrive?
Not really, but it will be dealt with. I’m utterly clueless about a due date, but from what I’ve read, I have about 2 weeks or less before she drops. I think. Jesus.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
I love Tonks. I just don’t see them together.
I tried not to notice how… lopsided that relationship appears to be.
Having read almost no HP fanfiction (the one fanfic I’ve actually gotten through was The Very Secret Diary, which is… very much up my destructive, unhealthy alley – oh yes, and also The Naked Quidditch Match), I think what was being gone for there was Brave Brave Werewolf Remus, being all self-sacrificing and hiding true love because of his bravery, but even then it kinda hurts my heart. If he was gay and just married her anyway, because she was in love with him, it hurts my heart even more :(
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I’m having an air conditioning issue in my house. We have two window units, one in the living room and one in my bedroom, but if we try to run both the circuit breaker to my bedroom and part of the living room keeps tripping. What can I do to stop this?
Silisays
Move North.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Request for Horde Help—
If you’d rather reply to me by email, it’s spokesgay at gmail (thank you).
My dad just lost his job and my parents are sweating the rent. Dad’s a tech journalist who’s worked online freelance from home for years. His blogging gig just went kaput. If any of you know of an online reporting/blogging, even copy-editing job I might suggest to my family I’d greatly appreciate it. Any networking for some work would be a help. They live paycheck to paycheck and I wanna see him back to work as soon as possible.
Thanks:)
Tony... therefore Godsays
Krasnaya Koshka:
My sister now calls me an angry dyke because I’m asking her to somewhat make an effort to repay the thousands I gave her.
:(
I’m sorry you’re having to go through that shit.
Has anyone in your family ever tried to explain *why* they’ve attached that label to you (so that you can refute whatever their ridiculous reasons are)? Or is it all religious “criticism”?
I moved to San Franisco in 1987 and one half of my friends died within two years, of AIDS. It was such a harsh greeting into homosexuality.(Most of my friends killed themselves –the most horrific with a shotgun–when they learned they had “an incurable disease”. I have four four friends who wefe diagnosed HIV+ and still live. And thive. They do the AIDS rides.
There simply are no words…
I’m terribly sorry.
~~
Janine:
Here is a simplified answer, Charly. Most gender based insults are based on the idea that a woman is of less worth than a man, that being a woman is something that is unfortunate.
Do you, or anyone else know of a site that that’s useful in explaining the nature and/or historical background of gender based insults (not necessarily for Charly, though xe might benefit from it; more as a ‘go to’ link in general for those that might ask that question and need a thorough explanation)?
@137:
Just note, there are people who argue that gendered words like “bitch” and “cunt” have lost their gendered background. They are wrong.
I’m curious what the arguments would be. Both words are so female specific, I don’t understand how one could twist logic to say their gendered background is gone.
~~
Cipher:
Also, “bastard” is a mother-based insult, which has roots in sexual control of women. I wouldn’t say directly misogynistic probably, but there’s a link.
Anyway.
I never knew that about ‘bastard’. Thank you.
~~
JAL:
In general, you can certainly tell when someone is using bastard as sexist insult or just another way to say asshole.
The rare times I’ve used the word in the past, have always been towards men, and even then, it’s been as a substitute for ‘asshole’.
~~
Louis:
Thanks for the advice re: Jager.
Were you having a party and didn’t invite us?
~~
Charly:
Well, czech words “čurák”, “kokot” and “vocas” (all vulgar names for male genitals) are very insulting words indeed and I do not think they are somehow “less” insulting than “píča” or “kunda”, which are its opposite.
The societal oppression of women (at least in the United States, but I have a feeling this is widespread across the planet) by men takes female gender based insults to another level. Men haven’t been systematically oppressed and treated as if they’re inferior, so saying “You’re being a dick”, while still a gender based insult (that shouldn’t be used), it’s a step or two below insulting a woman by calling her a slut.
How familiar are you with sexism and misogyny in your culture? Many times, they are so deeply ingrained into a culture that they become normalized (which is not a good thing). This can result in genuinely nice people being unaware of the impact of gender based insults. For many, upon learning of the misogyny in their culture, gender based insults (as well as insults that are specific to those attributes that we are born with and/or are incapable of being altered) are rightfully condemned.
Does the czech language have homosexual-specific insults (such as faggot or dyke)? Or racial insults?
~~
Caine:
Yah! Esme is pregnant!
Is it true that a litter can produce 5-15 babies?
Tony... therefore Godsays
Janine:
IIRC, Carlie is taking a yearly self imposed week or two away from the computer.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Do you, or anyone else know of a site that that’s useful in explaining the nature and/or historical background of gender based insults (not necessarily for Charly, though xe might benefit from it; more as a ‘go to’ link in general for those that might ask that question and need a thorough explanation)?
Tony, over the years, we had a number of special little trolls from pockets within England and Australia who have claimed that cunt has lost it gendered meaning, that it is an affectionate insult shared with the lads and how dare we bullying feminists tell them otherwise.
I don’t mean to be heartless, but do you know anyone with snakes?
The alternative is a major increase in expense, and at least it’s a kind of euthanasia with a purpose.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I happen to have a pet snake that only and exclusively eats baby rodents.
I wouldn’t feed rats to it though. Besides the fact that I like rats, they may be too big. Plus she’s picky as hell about when she feels like eating (but when she does she’s like a vacuum hose)
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
I volunteer to be Cruella de Vil and make a pair of gloves with their fur. Seeing that they would not have enough fur to make me a fur coat.
I’m having an air conditioning issue in my house. We have two window units, one in the living room and one in my bedroom, but if we try to run both the circuit breaker to my bedroom and part of the living room keeps tripping. What can I do to stop this?
Call an electrician. It sounds like using both together draws more current than the circuit can handle, so the circuit breaker trips.
I don’t mean to be heartless, but do you know anyone with snakes?
No, but I have a friend in Fargo who has a frog which eats pinkies. Even that freaky frog couldn’t manage a whole litter and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to do it.
I did have a chat with our rat vet, she’s willing to help home the pups and the man who runs the local pet store in Bismarck said he’d take as many as we want for sale as pets. I have no doubt we’ll keep a couple – Mister will get seriously attached.
Pteryxxsays
I’m having an air conditioning issue in my house. We have two window units, one in the living room and one in my bedroom, but if we try to run both the circuit breaker to my bedroom and part of the living room keeps tripping. What can I do to stop this?
cheap bodge: if plugs permit, run a heavy-duty extension cord from an outlet in a different part of the house (i.e. on a different circuit breaker) and plug one of the A/Cs into that. (The part of the house that does NOT lose power when the first breaker trips must be on a different breaker, so look for an outlet over there someplace.)
—
1d20 baby ratties!
Pteryxxsays
I did have a chat with our rat vet, she’s willing to help home the pups and the man who runs the local pet store in Bismarck said he’d take as many as we want for sale as pets.
Awesome – pups from good homes, with happy parents, good diets, roaming and playing and handled from birth, make EXCELLENT pets. Much better than the mass-bred feeder rodents crowding most stores. The local rattie grapevine should get buzzing with hand-tamed pups upcoming.
Now that I’ve learned a bit more, it looks like I have approximately 7 days (or less). Little monsters don’t show at all until their 3rd week, with gestation lasting 20 to 23 days. Yikes.
Rey Foxsays
In general, you can certainly tell when someone is using bastard as sexist insult or just another way to say asshole.
In The Meaning of Liff, Douglas Adams offered up “Gastard” as a word to distinguish your garden variety asshole from someone with uncertain parentage.
chigau (違う)says
Caine
How soon after the litter can you get Esme spayed?
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Caine, were I closer I’d take the plunge and en-rat Casa SpokesGay. Boy would the cats think that was fun.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I did have a hamster as a kid, but I think if I wanted to have a pet rat in the house, my mom would throw an utter shitfit.
birgerjohanssonsays
Slightly OT
You know those diseases that usually kill brown people down south rather than “job creators” in the northern hemisphere -malaria, dengue, etc- and consequently don’t get as much research funding? There is finally some good news for one of them.
RahXephon, I think the ‘rattie’ in this case is a rat terrior dog?
birgerjohanssonsays
To avoid the Stupid Baby Name Police I suggest you only use “creative” names as middle names.
For instance, Darkfetus could be named [mundane name] + Weatherwax + Dimetrodona + Temnospondylia + Carcharodonia + [surname] and the kids in school would only know about the first and last name.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine:
No, but I have a friend in Fargo who has a frog which eats pinkies. Even that freaky frog couldn’t manage a whole litter and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to do it.
Pac-man frog? I have one of those. Greedy little monstrosity he is… just a mouth and stomach with stubby legs. Though mine has lost all taste for mammals lately and appears to only be interested in eating worms.
Does anybody else click the handles of trolls and look at their blogs, FB profiles, etc. because of masochism or trainwreck syndrome?
Cory Albrecht was concern-trolling Ophelia about how she really really ought to publicly disclose the email she got from JREF. So I looked at his Twitter feed and found this gobsmacking assertion. Uhhhhhhh…. too soon, dude. Too soon.
Then there’s Voltergeist, who is tremendously condescending while spouting shit like this:
When we step outside the realm of material facts, as all gods lie beyond, you find that the truth is indeed irrelevant, and the features brought up by Be – you are bettered by believing, and no others are harmed – are.
Rutee kicked their ass from one end of Zinnia’s blog to the other, not that they probably realized it. Anyway, their Tumblr is one screed after another about meeeaaaannnnnn intooooooleraaaant atheists.
How soon after the litter can you get Esme spayed?
5 to 6 weeks. The pups wean at 5 weeks, and mum has to be separated from them anyway, before any of the males knock mum up. (This just gets better and better…). Esme and any females will get spayed asap. If there are any females, I’m keeping them.
I have a feeling this is just going to be a clusterfuck – it seems that a pregnant rat won’t bother with the official nesting until the day before or day of birth. I’m prepping the condo now, but I know where Esme will *want* to birth, and that won’t be okay. This is going to require timing and great luck.
Josh:
Caine, were I closer I’d take the plunge and en-rat Casa SpokesGay. Boy would the cats think that was fun.
:D If they’re anything like my cats, they’d quickly learn who is boss (it ain’t the cats) and they’d hate you. Forever.
birgerjohanssonsays
terrior dog?
A “terror dog” is the critter in Ghostbusters 1 that catches up with a guy outside a restaurant while the guests ignore the ghastly screams from outside the window. It was one of the few episodes in the film that were interesting.
Nope. African Pixie frog or something like that. Damn thing is huge (over 10 inches), has teeth and likes to lunge at faces.
Matt Penfoldsays
Cory Albrecht was concern-trolling Ophelia about how she really really ought to publicly disclose the email she got from JREF. So I looked at his Twitter feed and found this gobsmacking assertion. Uhhhhhhh…. too soon, dude. Too soon.
How fucking stupid do you have to be to think campaigning to rehabilitate the swastika is a good idea.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Caine: That would have been my second guess.
I’ve always wished there were still Diplocaulus around… I wonder what one of those things would be like in the home terrarium? Or would it have to be an aquarium?
emburiisays
Uh, terrier. Yes. *eats that spare ‘o’*
You saw nothing.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
BTW Caine might I also add I’m quite overjoyed to see you again, even if it is just a rat pregnancy announcement drive-by.
Caine: Do you know anything about socializing guinea pigs? my sister has a male, and he hasn’t been responding to the typical techniques (holding 20 min/day etc.) Anyway, I’m happy to see you here again!
Ing: I’m sure they would like gin, with the juniperness and all. And yes, the troll bait thread has gone the way of anything that involves liberturdanism.
What works for one critter may not work for another, so research is always necessary. Read – read everything you can, especially on dedicated forums. It helps. It’s best to keep in mind that not all critters are socializeable.
A. Rsays
Caine: Thanks, I’ve found a forum that might be helpful.
chigau (違う)says
The SO got an iPhone.
It knows where it is, to within about five metres.
I am seriously creeped-out.
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
Ing, what can’t you understand? Just because Ron Paul supports legislation that gives support to bigots and had racist literature published under his name does not mean that he is a bigot.
What I can’t understand is why people care about the feelings of such a man.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ms. Daisy:
Does anybody else click the handles of trolls and look at their blogs, FB profiles, etc. because of masochism or trainwreck syndrome?
Thank you!
I’ve been wondering why some peoples’ nym’s are clickable whilst others’ are not.
~~
I just came across (yeah, I’m late to the party) Ron Paul’s Sanctity of Life Act of 2011. None of it holds up to distant (let alone close) scrutiny, but this bit leaves me scratching my head:
Ron Paul proposes a bill that supposedly treats life as something sacred and special, but only until birth? Is it just me, or shouldn’t a ‘Sanctity of Life’ bill provide protection for *all* human persons from birth to death (following Paul’s wrongheaded ideology)?
~~
Caine:
I echo TLC’s sentiment @189 :)
~~
RahXephon:
No A/C in the summer is quite unpleasant. Glad to know you’ve got it up and running!
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
The SO got an iPhone.
It knows where it is, to within about five metres.
I am seriously creeped-out.
So does every smartphone that has Google Maps or uses any other GPS technology.
Ron Paul proposes a bill that supposedly treats life as something sacred and special, but only until birth? Is it just me, or shouldn’t a ‘Sanctity of Life’ bill provide protection for *all* human persons from birth to death (following Paul’s wrongheaded ideology)?
It’s especially rich since Libertarianism doesn’t value life at all. Your life is literally worth nothing compared to even a single dollar of lost profit
The funniest example of that was over on Butterflys with “SALLY STRANGE FOUND A RAPE JOKE FUNNY!!!!!!”
When the conversation was
Sally: “I only ever found one rape joke funny and that was because it was well crafted and mocked rapists and not victims”
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ing:
Have you tried giving them tiny martinis?
What did you have in mind?
A classic martini?
Cosmopolitan?
Lemon Drop?
Key Lime Pie?
Dreamsicle?
Chocolate?
Thin-mint-ini?
Cucumber min?
I could go on a while. I’ve made a lot of martinis :)
I suggest a tiny little open bar. Mixed or straight drinks on request and a nice bowl of sunflower seeds. That should make event he most sternest of Guinea pig crowds socialize
Janine: History’s Greatest Monstersays
I know, Ing. While I did not comment, I read that thread. Reminded of the reasons why I wrote them off, dishonest little gibbering shitstains.
A. Rsays
Ing: Yes, I agree a nice open bar would be quite nice. I wonder how well beer would sell…
A. Rsays
Argh, I used nice too many times! I need to stop with the Caol Isla earlier from now on.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
Seems like another good time to link to one of my favorite blog posts ever: “A woman walks into a rape, uh, bar” on rape jokes from Fugitivus. For anyone who is ignorant about rape jokes, confused about them, or just hasn’t read it before – it’s one of my favorite blog posts.
A. Rsays
And I couldn’t even spell Caol Ila correctly…
chigau (違う)says
Just because it’s in a martini glass doesn’t mean it’s a martini.
Gin and vermouth.
Good luck with Esme and her soon-to-be litter. If anyone can handle it, I know it’s you. :)
This reminds me of a funny quirk of my mom’s. Our cat Maggie was taken in as a stray. We had no idea if she’d been spayed or if she was pregnant or what. My mother, who is a dyed in the wool feminist and has no problem talking bluntly about any aspect of reproductive choice, recommend that we take Maggie to the vet ASAP and if she was pregnant to “have it taken care of”. I asked Mom if she meant a kitty abortion. “Of course, have it taken care of!” Was how she responded.
My awesome pro-choice mom can’t talk about terminating kitty pregnancies.
While my phone doesn’t know where it is with that degree of precision, I assume it can be located fairly closely. It’s all academic, though, since it rarely leaves the house. Just because somebody knows where my phone is doesn’t mean they know where I am. Take that, Big Brother! In your face! (not a rape threat)
Hey all – I know I’m one of those suspicious ‘newbies’ that make such good chew toys for all you awesome regular types, but I feel I need to pop in and drop some word salad. No good place for it really, I considered TZT but thought that if one of the exiles tried to give me goddist advice I might pop an eyeball and I’m deep enough in poo as it is.
My life has exploded. I’ve been married a couple of years and just had a gorgeous little baby boy (totally delicious) and have only just now come to the realisation that I’ve been in a pretty abusive situation. Pharyngula and the FTB crew opened my eyes to the signs that I wasn’t being treated as I have a right to be, that having affection be conditional on my giving up part of my bodily autonomy is quintessentially wrong, that my husband’s feelings aren’t more important than my mental health and so on.
When you’re bullied to the point of wanting to not exist anymore and then have the fact you’re talking about being suicidal used against you as if you’re trying to manipulate people, you have a big problem. When the family of in-laws (whom you’ve loved and respected) turns on you in an instant, defending their precious boy and spitting poison and blame at you when you’re simply trying to give the facts of the situation and improve things for everyone, you have a bigger problem. When you have your three month old child held hostage by his own father and have him refuse to let you anywhere near him, have him taken away to the in-laws place and are given ultimatums where if you leave the house with the baby then the marriage is over and you have nothing… yeah.
There’s a hell of a lot more to the situation and it’s all terrible. I’m living with my parents right now, who are also a cause of mental difficulties but are the only support I have right now. I have no job, can’t drive due to anxiety issues, have nowhere to live, have no money stored away. My cat and bird are back at my husband’s place and I know the fact they’re being looked after by someone else will be used against me at any opportunity, though I can’t take them to my parents’ place as my mum is a neurotic mess who won’t have animals in the house.
I just can’t see a way clear, and it’s depressing me past the point of return. I have depressive episodes so bad that my body simply stops responding to my brain and I’m unable to consciously control any muscle in my body for a matter of hours. No idea why – it’s as if my brain just blows a fuse to try to mitigate some of the damage.
I’m… well, shattered. The only ray of hope I have is that I know exactly why these things have happened, and I’ve woken up the the situation. I can only boggle at how disgustingly ingrained in our society these sexist and victim-blaming attitudes are, even in the people closest and dearest to us. When things come down to the wire, you see the full extent.
Oh well. Thanks to anyone who reads this, and hello to anyone who skims it due to tl’dr.
I know I’m one of those suspicious ‘newbies’ that make such good chew toys for all you awesome regular types
It’s not newbies it’s idiots.
I just can’t see a way clear, and it’s depressing me past the point of return. I have depressive episodes so bad that my body simply stops responding to my brain and I’m unable to consciously control any muscle in my body for a matter of hours. No idea why – it’s as if my brain just blows a fuse to try to mitigate some of the damage.
I know how you feel. Hang in there.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ing @215:
I totally have an image of that in mind right now!
Might we also throw some delicious pepitas into the mix as well?
(I absolutely *love* pumpkin seeds/pepitas. As a child, every year for Halloween, we would carve the pumpkin and bake the seeds. I don’t celebrate Halloween as an adult, but I do buy pumpkins around that time. The seeds are for me. The pumpkin is for the dogs. They *love* the treat. I’ve also taken to buying other types of squash throughout the year, to bake their seeds. What sucks is that most of the squash I’ve bought contains a miniscule amount of seeds. Ah well, I buy several and the dogs get fed!)
~~
chigau:
awww, come on. I make a killer Thin Mint-ini, based on the Girl Scout Cookie. It is quite tasty.
I do know what you mean though. In the US, I wonder how many people are even aware how martinis were served back during Prohibition.
Mister insists that this ^ is the only martini, full stop. The rest are…something else, but not martinis.
Audley, your mom isn’t alone. As ferociously pro-choice as I am, I get a bit queasy making that decision for another life form*. I did discuss terminating Esme’s pregnancy with our rat doc, but she didn’t recommend it. The problem with performing abortions on animals is that it can tweak them mentally and lead to psychological problems.
*I know, I know. It ain’t rational. I know.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Welcome to TET Sophia.
I hope you find what you need. It looks like you’re taking the first and probably most difficult step towards that.
I’m not very good with advice, but if talking about it here helps you in any way, then by all means, go ahead and talk about it here.
juliansays
@Sophia Dodds
For what little it’s worth you have my sympathies. I can’t offer much in concrete help but if nothing else, I wanted you to know I admire your courage and wish you the best.
Hello Sophia. I’m so sorry for your situation, but help is out there, it really is. It might take a bit of digging to get to it, but don’t give up. We’re here anytime you need to scream or cry or could use a hug or three. Where are you located?
diannesays
@229: I don’t see how you’re being irrational. You’re pro-choice and you can’t determine the rat’s will in this situation so you feel uncomfortable making a choice for her.
You’re pro-choice and you can’t determine the rat’s will in this situation so you feel uncomfortable making a choice for her.
That’s it exactly. Thanks.
chigau (違う)says
Tony
I think “gin” was redefined for the duration of Prohibition.
Probably “vermouth”, too.
diannesays
Welcome, Sophia. I’m sorry about your situation but glad that you’re taking steps to get yourself out of it. Feel free to use this space to rant, scream, complain, and vent.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
Oh, Sophia. I’m so sorry. *hugs if you want them* That sounds like a terrible situation to be in. You’re not alone. There are people around here who have gone through similar things to some of what you’re experiencing and may be able to offer advice if you want it, and we’re all here to listen.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Sophia:
Hey all – I know I’m one of those suspicious ‘newbies’ that make such good chew toys for all you awesome regular types, but I feel I need to pop in and drop some word salad
The Horde doesn’t munch on people just because they are new. Idiotic, homophobic, misogynistic, racist or other comments are quickly shot down. Not because the person is new, but because the view is moronic at best (Ron Paul for president) or blatantly offensive at worst (victim blaming).
Just dropping in to chat won’t-in and of itself-incur wrath (at least that’s been my limited experience).
What you’re going through is horrible (I didn’t find it TL, btw). You have my sympathies. In addition, I’ve found just being able to talk to others of like mind, or who have gone through similar circumstances can be helpful in and of itself. If you stay, please pull up a chair :)
chigau (違う)says
*hugs* and grog for Sophia and Cipher
Sophia Doddssays
Thanks :)
I’m not really looking for sympathy or anything, people go through this sort of crap all the time and much worse. I suppose I just really need -somewhere- to speak up; everyone I could talk to here either doesn’t want to listen, already knows and can’t help or doesn’t need to know.
I’m getting as much help as I can, I’ve got a good psychiatrist, a psychologist and am looking into family counselling so I can at least get a dialogue going. I’m just scared out of my mind right now, so any talking is incredibly difficult to do – especially when I know exactly what the reaction is going to be.
It’s so incredibly ironic seeing parallels in the modes of rigid thinking people employ when their positions are challenged. Take one look in TZT or an MRA comment flurry: “Your telling me about how I’m hurting you is making ME feel bad – you should be ashamed of that! Also, you do minor irritating things to me, so I’m prefectly justified in doing what I do.”
When questioned, the terrible arguments start coming out, like arguing that touching a man’s chest is exactly the same as groping a woman’s breasts. You know they don’t believe it, but they’ll use any argument to maintain the status quo regardless of whether or not it holds up. Ugh.
I’m not really looking for sympathy or anything, people go through this sort of crap all the time and much worse.
Do not bullshit yourself. Just because other people are going through situlation as bad or worse does not mean that you do not deserve nor need sympathy.
You are seeing professionals, that is a great start. Get hold of a local anti-violence organization (Violence is not just physical.) and try to get an advocate to help you through the system.
Good luck, Sophia. The fact that you are already acting speaks well for you.
And one last thing, just because you are new does not mean that any of the regulars will treat you like a chew toy. I hope you know that now.
Just because other people are going through situlation as bad or worse does not mean that you do not deserve nor need sympathy.
Janine is right. This is always a hard feeling to get past, but what you are going through is very real and you deserve support. Please feel free to speak up as much as you want to!
Sophia Doddssays
@Janine
I suppose it’s the beaten-down me speaking, when you’re made to feel useless and broken and contemptible for so long it’s rather easy to start believing it a bit, and even if you don’t really believe it you tend to act as though you’re walking on eggshells to avoid provoking an antagonistic reaction. Thanks, it’s good to be told sometimes that I don’t need to feel guilty when I feel I’ve been wronged. :)
I do know about the newbie!=auto-chewtoy thing, I suppose I was more referring to the fact I know I can sometimes say extraordinarily silly, privileged things (can’t we all?) and that if I did I expected the requisite Pharynguloid Barrage(tm). It’s a magnificent thing to see in action!
Dear Horde:
Does anyone have a very hot poker I can borrow? Gouging out my eyes will be more enjoyable than reading this shit:
http://www.savewhitepeople.com/The Black on White hate crimes is becoming ever more prevalent in our schools. One cannot send their child to schhol without fear of them being retaliated against simply for being a White child. Wake up parents!! There is a thing called Homeschooling..Where a parent knows their child is safe and has control over their child is being taught.
It boggles my mind that so many people blindly think that homeschooling is such a wonderful thing. While it *can* be in some cases, there are far too many parents who are ill suited for the task of teaching.
Sophia: You are more than welcome to come to TZT if you ever feel like bashing trolls, in fact, we have a recycled one who just showed up I will worn you though, TZT can be very surreal at times. Oh, and look at the punctuation in comments about the weather very carefully. Otherwise, I give you hugs and bacon.
Tethyssays
Esme is pregnant.
La Reine Rouge aura ratlings royales?
I have had surprise!* puppies, and surprise!** kittens. It was a lot of work but it was great fun to be a midwife and to raise the litters. I think it was also a great learning experience for my children. It was an easy way to teach them about sex and reproduction, and they were very involved in caring for and socializing the critters. They also invented some very clever ceiling fan powered kitten toys.
*I try not to be an irresponsible pet owner, the neighbors dog literally destroyed the door to get to my dog while I was at work.
I came home to find two very happy dogs wagging their hardest at me and acting all “OhHI, we know we are being bad but we couldn’t help it. Please don’t be mad” with their postures.
I used to be heavily involved in hunting field trials, and she was a AKC registered yellow Lab who I was intending to breed at some point if she did well. The sire was a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, so I had five really adorable red Labrador puppies. My neighbors took the reddest female as the pick of the litter and named her Scout.
**MY two part siamese female cats were scheduled to be spayed on Thursday. They coincidentally both went into heat on Monday. They managed to escape the house and elude all efforts to be captured for nearly a week. They each had small litters totaling seven kittens of all different colors including ragdolls.
I’ve been around on the internets a LONNNG time, and its been my experience that the more people use terms like MISOGYNIST, RACIST, BIGOT and FEMINAZI, the less valid their arguments are likely to be.
Right. Because there are no actual instances of misogyny, racism or bigotry on the ‘net. Oh no. Also, lumping feminazi in with the rest? :headdesk:
I’ve been around on the internets a LONNNG time, and its been my experience that the more people use terms like MISOGYNIST, RACIST, BIGOT and FEMINAZI, the less valid their arguments are likely to be.
Odd that we get the dichotomy of Misognyist/Reminazi but not for racist and bigot. Apparently your use of nigger is not a metric of your value!
juliansays
Thunderf00t has some good videos but he has the self awareness and compassion of Emperor Palpatine.
Palpatine was very self ware. He wasn’t bigoted or racist himself but fostered those beliefs for political power AND because it strengthened the Dark Side of the Force.
His oppressive policies were entirely to turn the Empire into a soul engine to fuel his powers
A. Rsays
Is it just me, or did a portal to the Slimepit just open in FTB?
Ms. Daisy:
Thanks for that.
I won’t be going to that fucktards site again.
The moment I came across “…sexual harassment is a non-issue…” I shut down. Male privilege anyone?
~~
Sophia:
I do know about the newbie!=auto-chewtoy thing, I suppose I was more referring to the fact I know I can sometimes say extraordinarily silly, privileged things (can’t we all?) and that if I did I expected the requisite Pharynguloid Barrage(tm). It’s a magnificent thing to see in action!
You’re not alone in the foot-in-mouth club. I know I’ve said stupid shit, or offended someone, or been massively wrong about something. A heartfelt admission of wrongdoing or a genuine apology goes a long way. Too many people don’t want to do that.
Tethys, I’m no stranger to pets birthing, litters and all that. I’m sure I’ll go full court squishy when the babes arrive, but for right now it’s a major problem. It will continue to be a problem, too, because I’ll have to keep Esme locked up, which is not going to go over well *at all*, until she can be spayed. (Female rats can get knocked up within 36 hours of birthing.)
Tony, for far-right homesk00lerz, their children growing up ignorant, sheltered, and unsuited to the “worldly” secular sphere is a feature and not a bug. Seriously, “worldly” is an insult to such people, because they’re supposed to be “in this world but not of it,” focused instead on joining jeeeezussss in hebbun.
Also…. yeah, white supremacist sites. What can I say. I’ve seen prettier things when I’ve turned over a rock in a forest.
A.R, it’s not like they stayed away in droves before Thunderfart came along. For people who hate this site they sure spend a lot of time here.
Sophia Doddssays
Wow…
… and thus another discordant voice was added to the cacophony, screaming silent blame at the downtrodden majority as they trudged by, impotent and without voice.
That sentence should have been less pretentious by a factor in the hundreds, and untrue by the same degree. The fact it isn’t scares the living daylights out of me.
juliansays
Hmmmm, very true. Perhaps I owe the Sith Lord an apology.
Seriously though, why invite thunderf00t? Might as well nab the AmazingAtheist while we’re at it. Soooo many awesome youtubbers. And we get thunderf00t?
Sigh.
Well, I guess we have the token dudebrah now.
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
chigau, thanks. *hugback*
Re: Thunderf00t,
Oh gross :( Now I’m all upset again.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Tony: In this case it might be a good thing. If all the paranoid bigoted whitey parents take their kids out and ‘homeschool’ them, then the education gap might actually start shrinking!
And I can’t help but think a school where all the children of bigoted white parents have been ‘removed for their own safety’ would be a good learning environment for the rest of the population.
Hmmmm, very true. Perhaps I owe the Sith Lord an apology.
Not really it’s perhaps worse that he is knowingly using every other living being in his galaxy as raw materials. IIRC the canon end game for him was to unbalance the force enough that he could act as a vampire, draining away the life of all living things to extend his own life indefinitely.
TLC, it’s not fair to the kids of the bigots. Why should they have their life opportunities severely curtailed because their parents are assholes and fools?
Pteryxxsays
Sophia, you’re welcome here.
Seconding Janine; contact a local domestic abuse resource. They deal with this sort of thing all the time and can help navigate the situation and form a plan. My local shelter network gave me counseling, legal aid, and an advocate came to court with me for moral support.
I suggest calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline: http://www.thehotline.org/ or 1.800.799.7233. They’re willing to listen, too.
—
delayed because my internet sux.
Caine: fyi if you don’t already know, rats can mate through cage bars.
… I mean, I don’t think that kids raised by bigots should be allowed to proselytize, harangue, or otherwise disrupt the learning environment for the other kids. But I don’t think their minds should be left entirely to their parents to mold.
Also consider that, in a state with very lax checks on homeschooling, sexual and physical abuse can easily go unreported.
ambleburysays
Hi Sophia!
I’m sorry things are so difficult for you. And forget about the “others have all this and more” thoughts, no matter where you heard it. Pain is pain, and degree of difficulty only applies in Olympic diving competitions, or some thing like that.
I’m really glad you’re seeing people who’ll give you the help you want.
–
CAINE! Yay!…reads…potentially 22 rat babbys??!! Oy!
As far as ThunderD0uche goes, I have no fucking idea what the FTB overlords were thinking when they invited him. He’s a racist piece of shit, and sexist as all hell as well, apparently (not that I’m surprised, these things tend to go together.)
Ultimately, him, as well as a lot of major (straight, cis, white) dude atheist players, have made me decide that I am never, ever getting remotely involved in any kind of atheist/skeptic organization, group or meeting, aside from maybe meeting some of y’all.
As far as ThunderD0uche goes, I have no fucking idea what the FTB overlords were thinking when they invited him. He’s a racist piece of shit, and sexist as all hell as well, apparently (not that I’m surprised, these things tend to go together.)
Hi youtube hits.
It makes sense to me. I just don’t predict it either lasting long or catching on. I’m personally skeptical of the idea of inviting youtubers to a blog (feels like inviting voice actors to a mime union)
Tethyssays
Sophia
Welcome to TET. I am sorry to hear of your relationship sorrows. Leaving abusive relationships is very difficult, feel free to rant or ask for advice or just share.
Sophia Doddssays
@Pteryxx
Thankyou. I’m an Aussie and phone-shy, but I definitely appreciate the sentiment. My mental health care people are doing all they can, and since the abuse is emotional rather than overtly physical it’s very difficult to prove anything and since I’m a very passive and forgiving person it’s far too easy for my view of things to be overlooked or disbelieved.
I’ll definitely go to a shelter if it comes to that, but for now my parents are doing all they can to support me. They’re certainly not the best option available, but their hearts are in the right place and they’re at least being unconditionally supportive. (Well, for the most part. Mum’s big on her little rituals, so there are certain things I can’t do. I can live with that until I get my own space.)
Ultimately, him, as well as a lot of major (straight, cis, white) dude atheist players, have made me decide that I am never, ever getting remotely involved in any kind of atheist/skeptic organization, group or meeting, aside from maybe meeting some of y’all.
The branding of Skeptic Inc has saddened me since I was first made aware of the issue. Mark my words, this started IMO with the decision that Religion was off limits.
My mental health care people are doing all they can, and since the abuse is emotional rather than overtly physical it’s very difficult to prove anything and since I’m a very passive and forgiving person it’s far too easy for my view of things to be overlooked or disbelieved.
I’ve had that trouble in the past. Probably not as bad but I think I know what it feels like to feel that people are abusing your forgiveness or empathy…and for feeling guilty for being mad at someone who has been horrible to you because they’re being “nice” right now.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Miss Daisy Cutter: You got me there. I was just looking for the silver lining, I suppose.
Chigau: No, but we had the mother of all storms yesterday. The entire morning was muggy and semi-sunny. Then all of a sudden a sheet of unbelievable wind ripped through, just like that, like someone had offended a god or something in a movie. And then came thunder and lightning. And then a literal sheet of rain, like, I looked south and could see this white sheet coming at us.
Words do not do it justice really. Wind, rain, ground went from dry to inch-deep puddles and blowing sheets of rain in a few seconds… The Girl was like:
“What’s that word… like… when it’s the end of the world…”
“Apocalyptic?”
“Yeah. That one.”
The Babby only wanted to know what that noise was. So I drew her a crude picture of Thor and told her it was a storm.
Apparently there’s a huge flooding risk in Kelowna though. Someone was tellin me all about it in PET. Kelowna of all fucking places.
But don’t worry, Global Warming is just a myth. ;)
cicelysays
Threadrupt.
–
Last night’s post-Game decision to drive thru Taco Bell has been proven to have been…most unwise.
–
Actually, I thought his characterization was inconsistent throughout the series. You first hear of him when Harry gets his diary, and the “Tom Riddle” inside the book does seem pretty normal. Then later on you see him as a teenager and he’s more cold or even a bit sociopathic, and then she pulled out the scene where Dumbledore meets him in the orphanage and he sets a dresser on fire to show how he was “OMG EEEEEEEVIL” even as a small child.
I more got the impression that the reason why the small child Tom Riddle comes off as more OMG EEEEEEEEEVIL than the school-boy and teen Riddle was because, before his meeting with Dumbledore, he felt he was “special” all in and to himself, with no need for dissimulation; but being clever, he picked up on Dumbledore’s slight “check” in reaction to the young Tom’s callousness etc., and figured that he’d better learn to hide those unfavorable traits PDQ, if he was going to get anywhere in this whole, new world of “special” people. At school and young adulthood, he was keeping up a facade; but when he started actively pursuing his goals, he felt no such need. After all, the dark wizards and pure-blood elitests and such (IOW, the stereotypic graduates of Slytherin house, and for that matter, his maternal family) were all ready out there, and in their company he didn’t need to “make nice”. Knockturn Alley, where all the questionable businesses had their addresses, wouldn’t have existed, and neither would those businesses, if there wasn’t already a ready market for their wares/services.
It’s possible that I over-thought this a tad.
–
“Bitch” is interesting because of its dual meanings – either a woman who is too assertive or a person who is dominated, usually sexually.
With some likely cross-pollination from “a bitch in heat”; i.e., slut/whore.
–
[…]Thor/Loki stuff?
*blinkblink*
I am obviously way more naive than I thought.
–
Caine, *pouncehug* and congrats or commiserations on the forthcoming ratlings, whichever applies.
(Later) Make that commiserations. And *booze*.
–
You know those diseases that usually kill brown people down south rather than “job creators” in the northern hemisphere -malaria, dengue, etc- and consequently don’t get as much research funding? There is finally some good news for one of them.
Huzzah!
(I remember reading an article, at some indeterminate-but-probably-less-than-a-year-ago time, that thanks to Global Climate Change Mysterious Unknown Reasons, dengue and the like are becoming more widely available, yea, even unto denizens of the First World.)
–
Only to 200. *sigh*
Tony... therefore Godsays
julian:
Seriously though, why invite thunderf00t? Might as well nab the AmazingAtheist while we’re at it. Soooo many awesome youtubbers. And we get thunderf00t?
For completely different reasons, I would add Taslima to the ‘what are they doing here?’ list.
Of the various new bloggers at FtB, I love Zinnia Jones’ blog by far.
~~
Ing @261:
Uh, wow.
I wonder if his xenophobia and racism is only directed towards Muslims, or if it extends to other POC…
~~
TLC @266:
On the one hand, it might improve things for the kids left at the school. OTOH, I worry that the homschooled kids would suffer educationally and socially. Plus, who the heck wants to be around their parents *all* the time? Some kids actually enjoy going to school and/or getting some ‘parental unit’ free time.
I wonder if his xenophobia and racism is only directed towards Muslims, or if it extends to other POC…
AFAIK it’s only Muslims, because 911. It’s the standard alarmism about Islam we see from Skeptics that doesn’t get called out (Hell we basically canonized Hitchens despite being guilty of IMHO many many sins we would condemn in people outside the tribe). It makes me wonder if these people have ever had any direct contact with either Muslims in the West or the Muslim world.
Now I get my view from the Muslim world second hand from a Arab friend who is an archeologist and travels to the region. The culture honestly does not sound all that far off to rural areas in the US. There are stories there that would work just as well if you switch it to “rural New York” from him. Yeah politics and religion are heavily ingrained and weird and often repressive…but there are quite a few Muslims who are either apathetic or really really don’t believe…unless someone from Government is watching upon which they most definitely were at prayer and not at home drinking. Likewise every Muslim I’ve met in the West has been either fine, or horrible for reasons not at all related to Islam. Maybe I’m self selecting but I just meet people around I don’t go seek them out. I hear people talking about horrible it is that Muslims are around because they don’t assimilate or whatever, when I worked with a Muslim who did recreational cross dressing, wore toed shoes, and listened to Lady Gaga. I think we can all agree that we should love a view of Islam that allows that…so why are we discouraging people from interacting with our culture and economy and forcing them to be isolated? They are goddamn idiots.
On a side note, because of the theme of my wedding my friend came dressed in a outfit appropriate for his nation of origin for 1900s. We have some photos of him talking to Orthodox(ish) Jewish friends.
Thunderfoot (no I’m not bothering with the zero character). What the hell are you and Ed thinking PZ? Yet another oblivious fucking mansplaining sexist? Yeah, we needed him. Real bad.
For completely different reasons, I would add Taslima to the ‘what are they doing here?’ list.
Indeed. The inclusion of her as one of the “Horsewomen” gave me a strong AW, HELL NO reaction. Zinnia, on the other hand, is indeed a great addition to FTB.
Ing, Thunderfart may not be as vitriolic toward other PoC, but the dude’s a demonstrable bigot on more than one front, and he seems to be a libertarian to boot. I kind of doubt he’s enlightened on any racial topics.
My experiences with Muslims have been fairly similar to yours. I have friends who are converts, and I met their circle of religious friends, from various countries, when they still lived locally.
Mark my words, this started IMO with the decision that Religion was off limits.
The people at the top can’t get a share of the pie unless they suck up to the privileged, for whatever definition of “privileged” applies.
They remind me of the Democratic Party. I was going to say “blue-dog Democrats” but it’s sort of redundant anymore.
Cicely:
*blinkblink*
I am obviously way more naive than I thought.
Any two male characters, real or fictional, in any popular work in any medium or genre can be and will be slashed. And “popular” is a flexible term.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Oh joy. Just found out that Tropical Storm Debbie is going to be keeping the Florida Panhandle company pretty much the entire week.
We just *had* a week of wet weather…
Sigh.
Here’s hoping there will only be minimal damages and no casualties.
Indeed. The inclusion of her as one of the “Horsewomen” gave me a strong AW, HELL NO reaction. Zinnia, on the other hand, is indeed a great addition to FTB.
I’m unfamiliar. Would it be too lazy of me to ask for a bullet points version?
Ing, Thunderfart may not be as vitriolic toward other PoC, but the dude’s a demonstrable bigot on more than one front, and he seems to be a libertarian to boot. I kind of doubt he’s enlightened on any racial topics.
*wide eyed* But he’s sincere so it’s not real bigotry!
I only know of Muslim bullshit. I love how the libertarian ideals carry up until Muslims want to use their owned property rights. Then we have to do something for the good of society!
Ciclely @ #282: Oh, you have no idea. *evil grin, villain cackle* If you want your mind shattered with this stuff, Ms. Daisy Cutter is a neverending source of links to the most wrong slash on Earth. Has left me yelling “OH GOD WHYYYYY” at the monitor numerous times now. And for that, I owe her baked goods and I return the favour at any chance I get.
There is, however, some very well-written odd slash out there. A disappointingly small amount of *ahem* the pairings I look for, though.
What!? No! He’d never say anything TO a Muslim that would be discriminatory! He doesn’t hate them! He just acknowledges that their ideology is elemental evil, the worst religion out there, and that we should be at war with the general area of the world where it is popular! It’s not PERSONAL!
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
What’s more ING, the DICTIONARY SEZ it’s not bigotry. Thunderfoot doesn’t hate muslims in his heart of hearts.
See this is why one of us has to bite the bullet and become a Paladin so we can get “sense motive/Sense evil/good” abilities!
Dalillamasays
@Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy
My ships are all destructive and unhealthy. I’ve wondered lately if that’s a problem, since they somewhat follow the patterns of my unhealthy relationships, or if it’s harmless. *shrug* Dunno.
I’d call it harmless, personally. I think the causation runs the other way, if anything, projecting your experiences into the ships.
@PZ Myers 166
Snakes? Snakes are much worse; my dad had a garter snake that had a litter, and the little beasts got everywhere.
@Sophia
I’m sorry to hear about your situation, glad you’re getting at least some help. As others have said, you’re fully entitled to sympathy for the crap you’re going through, regardless of what has or hasn’t happened to others.
RE:Thunderfoot
I thought I’d heard his name before he came here, it was often in the same sentence as The Amazing Asshole. Now I know why.
juliansays
Why not just become a wizard and use protection from X. It gives you roughly the same information if you’re flexible enough and have a target in mind.
Ing, I dislike “feminists” who want to dictate to other women how they should live their lives. Banning burqas or any other “modesty” garb is just another way of fighting politics using women’s bodies as a battlefield. The real-world result will be that some women will be confined to their homes by their relatives.
I’m not on board with banning prostitution entirely, either. There are sex workers who enjoy their work, and there are poor women who will not have any other way to make a living in the world as it exists. Radical feminists who campaign against all sex work have a tendency not to actually listen to the women in the field who contradict their assumptions.
If women do not fight to stop being oppressed by a shameful patriarchal and oppressive religious system, then shame on women! Shame on women for not protesting, for not fighting, for allowing a system to continue that will affect our children as well as our children’s children.
Yeah, shame on the victims, not on the victimizers. And does she have any fucking idea of the sociological reasons that women are more religious than men are?
Finally, even though I understand the value of not putting shocking images under a blog cut, she really ought to understand that some of those pics could get people in trouble at their jobs or trigger flashbacks.
Ing, I dislike “feminists” who want to dictate to other women how they should live their lives. Banning burqas or any other “modesty” garb is just another way of fighting politics using women’s bodies as a battlefield. The real-world result will be that some women will be confined to their homes by their relatives.
Yes I remember being convinced away from that by Walton.
Hi Sophia, well done on getting out. That’s so very hard a step to take, especially when you have a baby. There are heaps of domestic violence resources in Australia. Would you be prepared to tell us what region you’re in? (I’m in Canberra, myself.)
Sophia Doddssays
Thanks again, Alethea. I’m in Western Australia. I do have good access to help though, in fact everyone I’ve spoken to outside of the situation itself has been very generous in pointing me to resources to help, even if they’re not even remotely involved.
I had an amazing experience with the community child health nurse – I had an appointment to take the bub for a check-up. This lady was filling in for the regular nurse. We spoke about the little guy, she asked about the situation at home and of course I had to tell her (and this is someone with the power to have your child taken from you if they deem you unfit! Terrifying when you feel threatened) and EVERYTHING she said was fully in support of my position. I was floored – people had been telling me I was the problem for so long, telling me I wasn’t able to take care of my son, telling me I was just being selfish and not being a good wife etc. To have this woman tell me just how good a job I was doing under such horrible circumstances and offer personal help was just… well, I was in tears from relief.
Support comes from the most unlikely places sometimes.
Happiestsadistsays
Sophia: It is amazing where support can suddenly come from. It was a near-stranger on the internet for me. I’m glad you got out, and you deserve to be happy and safe.
A. Rsays
To people complaining about rain: I can haz your waterzz? (We’re in the middle of a drought, only one state away from flooding. Yep, nooooo such thing as climate change.)
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
Extra sooper dooper congrats to Thunderfoot, and to Freethoughtblogs! We’ve now got at least two—that’s right, ladies and gentlemen—two blogs infested with slimepitters! It’s so nice to see ScentedNectarConcentratedWater, Notung, and the rest of the Scented Nectarines here at FtB! Golly, I don’t have to put on my waders and brave the slimepit to get my fill of misogynistic bigoted crap. . .I can get it right here, in the comfort of FtB.
Here’s one Satisfied Customer™ saying, “Thanks, FtB. It’s just what I always wanted.”
Rev. BigDumbChimpsays
If the first 20 mins mean anything, Looks like the new HBO show The Newsroom has some promise
Extra sooper dooper congrats to Thunderfoot, and to Freethoughtblogs! We’ve now got at least two—that’s right, ladies and gentlemen—two blogs infested with slimepitters! It’s so nice to see ScentedNectarConcentratedWater, Notung, and the rest of the “Scented Nectarines” here at FtB! Golly, I don’t have to put on my waders and brave the slimepit to get my fill of misogynistic bigoted crap. . .I can get it right here, in the comfort of FtB.
Here’s one Satisfied Customer™ saying, “Thanks, FtB. It’s just what I always wanted.”
as a benefit though it’ll keep them all in one place and hopefully away from places I care about and might see them.
Seriously though, the fuckers are like vampire tribbles…once you invite them in you’ll never get rid of all of them!
A. Rsays
How easy is it to kick a blogger out of FtB? Seriously, ThunderFap has no place here in my view.
A. Rsays
PZ: Perhaps a listing of Trolls confined to TZT would be useful? I t could be posted on the same page a the Dungeon. It would certainly help to keep track of them. [X-Post TET/TZT]
To my knowledge it has only been leaving voluntarily. No one has ever been booted. Not sure I’d necessarily want that either.
Sorry if I sound flippant about the slimepitters, I realize they bother people more than me, but I really have no clue what to do with such blatant pathology than shake my head in condescending pity.
A. Rsays
Perhaps he should be asked to leave then. I just cannot wrap my head around an FtB slimepit.
ibyeasays
Oh jeez, what is it about simple advice to treat other people with decency that gets people so stupid and riled up? It’s like they think that reporting sexual harassment will mean men will lose something, when a)the opposite is true and b)human rights is not a zero sum game.
Ing, Thunderfart may not be as vitriolic toward other PoC, but the dude’s a demonstrable bigot on more than one front, and he seems to be a libertarian to boot.
While I don’t want to defend TF’s actions in the gender/racial arena, in the interests of accuracy I don’t think he’s a libertarian.
Re: Banning the Burqa (Ms Daisy @305 and Ing @ 307): You know, I’m somewhat conflicted over this. On the one hand, I basically agree with you as far as the fact that banning it seems very anti-civil liberties. Also, such an action would seem deliberately discriminatory and only further rifts between Muslims and non-Muslims. But on the other hand, if there is a cultural pressure in some Muslim communities to wear it, women might have no practical choice but to wear it; banning it might be the only way that these women could possibly not wear it. After all, no laws does not mean maximum freedom. But I might be dealing with some type of straw example here, that doesn’t really apply to Western societies. So I guess I feel conflicted.
Doesn’t matter. Banning isn’t helping where it’s tried. Practicality wins.
Tony... therefore Godsays
So I just got back from ‘dinner’ with my friend T. She and I went to Chili’s (at 930pm on a Sunday, our options were limited). Everything was completely fine until shortly after our entrees arrived. The bartender gave us our food and then stepped away to have a conversation with another employee. Both T and I are bartenders and we’ve developed very good hearing (it comes in handy when you overhear people discussing drinks before you’ve greeted them; imagine having your drink handed to you *before* you’ve asked for it). As a result, we heard the entire [short] conversation, which began with:
bartender: “What’s your intent if you buy a woman two drinks and two shots?”
My sexism sense started tingling, and sure enough it was confirmed about 30 seconds later when they’re talking about women getting drunk and passing out. The bartender mentioned his hope that guys act like gentlemen (yeah, there’s that sexist trope again) if a woman passes out, but they were both making light of rape culture. To top it off, the server said something to the effect of
“maybe I won’t remember what happened the next day either”.
…
I lost my appetite. The only reason I didn’t leave is because T was in the middle of eating her meal (which she needed, as she was in a triathlon today). I’m still pissed about the two fuckwits making jokes about rape like that.
To make matters worse, my friend T has been the victim of sexual harassment. She was none too happy with their talk either.
The hell is wrong with people?
ibyeasays
@Ing
Yeah, it would take away the ability of jerks to be jerks to other people for no reason at all. It is the kind of loss I want to see happen.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
The hell is wrong with people?
Send an email to the employees (if you remember their names and can figure out their corporate email addresses) openly cc’ed to the location’s manager. Barring that send it to the manager describing the date and time you were there; their software will do the rest.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
And if you’re feeling particularly pissed send to places like Consumerist and Pandagon.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I notice that there aren’t many people from here on Thunderchrist’s thread, which is probably a good thing. Slimepit-esque blogger + Slimepit-actual commenters doesn’t mean this particular discussion is going to be very…productive.
Caine: Good luck with Esme and her little ones. Also, how are the duckies coming along?
——————————————–
Sophia: You’re more than welcome to vent/dump here when you need to. You’re in a tough position, and it’s good that you have people in your corner. Sucks about the in-laws, but I guess it’s hard for parents to admit their child is an abusive jackass. I hope you can be done with the whole fiasco soon enough.
———————————————-
Wait, didn’t Thunderfoot join FtB only like a few months ago? Talk about a quick takeover. (Shame they don’t make a spray that will de-slimepit the place with no messy cleanup afterwards.)
———————————————–
I have a new cloak which I bought Saturday at a Ren Faire. I’ve been looking for one for months, and could never find one. Everyone seems to list sizes differently, so even if I could guess what size I needed, there would only be one or two color choices that I didn’t like. Right color? Sorry, it’s made of material which needs to be dry cleaned only. Or it’s a material that I loathe (seriously, rayon makes me sweat like no tomorrow, regardless of the type of garment). Right color, size, and material? That’ll be 300 bucks, please.
So, finally, at this one vendor stand, I found what I wanted. A whole selection of cloaks, all made of material that doesn’t need special care and doesn’t feel like I’ll be sweating buckets in short order. The gray one I tried on looked awful, so went for a navy blue. Bingo! The lady even showed me how to tie it so the cloak wouldn’t ride up and choke me. Up until then the only way I’d seen cloaks fastened was in front, either with ties or with a brooch. And even though the price was over one hundred, it was far less than I’d have paid elsewhere for a cloak of the same size.
——————————————-
Raining again. Between that and the clary sage, so soothing. And that tells me it’s time for bed.
Send an email to the employees (if you remember their names and can figure out their corporate email addresses) openly cc’ed to the location’s manager. Barring that send it to the manager describing the date and time you were there; their software will do the rest.
That does little except put someone’s job on the line. It does nothing at all to address the standard, day to day sexism which abounds everywhere. This is why we fight the good fight, and no, we can’t reach every single person every single day.
ibyeasays
@RahXephon
Oops, I posted there.
Josh, Official SpokesGaysays
That does little except put someone’s job on the line. It does nothing at all to address the standard, day to day sexism which abounds everywhere. This is why we fight the good fight, and no, we can’t reach every single person every single day.
You’re right. I’m feeling vindictive, but it wasn’t a good idea.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Follow up to my Chili’s story:
I just sent this email to their Guest Relations Department:
Tonight I chose to dine at my local Chili’s with a good female friend of mine. I’ve been there many times in the past, and had no issues with food or service. Tonight was likely the last time I will eat there again. Shortly after our food arrived, the [male] bartender and a [male] server began a conversation within earshot of my friend and I, as well as one other table. Their conversation involved buying women drinks in the hopes that sex would be forthcoming. In addition, they made comments regarding women passing out and what might happen subsequently [in slight defense of the bartender, he did express the desire to be a gentleman in that situation]. The servers’ response ruined my meal. He chose to make light of the situation by saying that he might black out and not remember the events of that night either. This attitude is appalling and unacceptable. Women in the U.S. face sexual harassment and rape to a horrifying degree and are often shamed into staying silent. Attitudes such as those of the two employees contribute to a society in which women are treated as objects, not as human beings.
(My friend, by the way has been sexual harassed in the past.)
Vampire Duckie is finished and I’m working on Nerd Duckie now.
dogeared, spotted and foxedsays
Tony, what a drag. Kinda weird, too. I’ve done my time in bars and seen enough utter crap to be extra super sensitive. I’ve also seen a new guy go from casual joking to call-a-cab concerned within just a few months. The discussions after a slimy creepy jerk leaves will do that.
Then again, didn’t work on all of them. Some got worse because some people suck.
ibyeasays
Folks, please tell that AronRa is not this clueless?
Oh holy Thunderfuck, Batman. I just saw that. Am I happy that I have to go to work now.
dogeared, spotted and foxedsays
Caine, Oh. mah. GAWD! Those illustrated rat pillows are fantastic! Absolutely delicious. Almost distracted me from being insanely jealous of your free-range rats.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Josh:
Send an email to the employees (if you remember their names and can figure out their corporate email addresses) openly cc’ed to the location’s manager. Barring that send it to the manager describing the date and time you were there; their software will do the rest.
By the time you read this, you’ll likely see my post about the email I’ve sent. I didn’t cc the locations manager, but the information I was required to fill out included the specific store I was at. I do remember one of the employees’ name, but I didn’t include that (I had 1200 characters to work with, and had to tweak the email a few times to whittle it down). Ironically, I was in the middle of reading Stephanie Zvan’s post on Almost Diamonds about the definition of sexual harassment at the time of the incident (specifically the portion of her post that talks about hostile environments).
Tony... therefore Godsays
Caine:
That does little except put someone’s job on the line. It does nothing at all to address the standard, day to day sexism which abounds everywhere. This is why we fight the good fight, and no, we can’t reach every single person every single day.
^^^^^^
Yes. Thank you.
I was trying to figure out how to word that so I didn’t seem insensitive to the issue of sexism. I don’t want someone fired. I’d rather they be educated and understand *why* they are wrong to think the way they do. I have no false hopes that this will lead to anything (I suppose stranger things have happened), but I did feel the need to express my disapproval.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Part Time Insomniac:
Wait, didn’t Thunderfoot join FtB only like a few months ago? Talk about a quick takeover. (Shame they don’t make a spray that will de-slimepit the place with no messy cleanup afterwards.)
I’m fairly certain he joined with the last week or two.
~~
Caine:
vampire duckie? This, I’ve gotta see!
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I said my piece on the Thunderchrist thread, but if I keep going I’ll never get any sleep.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Caine:
I love Vampire Duckie!
I scrolled down and saw the pics of your adorable little corn and peas eating friends :) Soooo cute!
psanitysays
Oh, Dog. In the time it took for me to write a comment to Thunderfoot’s blog, it became a cesspool. I couldn’t even bring myself to post — it’s far too depressing a situation for even my nearly irrepressible wonkiness to overcome. Reason is meaningless. Opinion trumps information. I feel like going back to usenet, where the discussions were relatively civilized.
My head hurts, and I feel there is no hope. I have come here for succor.
Caine, Oh. mah. GAWD! Those illustrated rat pillows are fantastic! Absolutely delicious. Almost distracted me from being insanely jealous of your free-range rats.
Oh, thank you so much! That was some tricky stitchin’. :D The artwork was done by a most fabulous artist, you should really give her blog a visit: The Art of the Illustrated Rat.
Tony:
I love Vampire Duckie!
I scrolled down and saw the pics of your adorable little corn and peas eating friends :) Soooo cute!
Thank you, thank you! I broke the pregnancy news to Mister tonight, he’s probably dealing better than I am, except for that nasty “1 to 22” moment, wherein he looked like I just smacked him with baseball bat. Heh.
Always. Help yourself. I’m not going anywhere near that clusterfuck. I’ve dealt with SPers enough to know it will go absolutely nowhere, except to get really nasty shit said about me all over again. No thanks.
dogeared, spotted and foxedsays
Caine, Just got back from the Art of the Illustrated Rat and now I’m inspired and a little heart-sad. The cat jumped in my lap and is doing his best but it’s just not the same. Not worse, just not the same. Rats are unique and clever beasties. I miss that whiskery whisper in my ear and the warm bit of squirmy in my front pocket.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I think what bothers me so much about these Slimepit incursions is that it exploits my…I don’t know, low self esteem? Lack of conviction? Willingness to be wrong? I’m not sure what to call it, but it is a vulnerability in my ego that does make me think (only after extensive readings of pitizen writings) that maybe this alternate universe does exist where they are, in some way, right about stuff.
dogeared, spotted and foxedsays
Also, congratulations on the pregnancy! Instead of gifts, I promise to offer no advice.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
RahXephon: I have no doubt that the slimepitters are occasionally ‘right’ about stuff. Fairy-tale ogres and comic book villains don’t exist in real life.
But on the sexism issue? Dead wrong.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
But on the sexism issue? Dead wrong.
Yeah, I wasn’t talking about that part.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Well then what part were you talking about Rahxephon? The part where they call us an echo-chamber and talk about how the Pharyngula thugs ‘tow the line’ of True Feminism/Skepticism or whatever the slimepitters go on about?
A. Rsays
So I just fired a shot across Thunderfap’s bow in the FtB slimepit, we’ll see what happens now.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
TLC, all I’m saying is that I have a poor sense of personal ego and am susceptible to bullying making me unsure of my position, not that I think any “part” of anything they say is “right”.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
I also love how Giordana couldn’t comprehend the difference between my juvenile feces-related insults and gendered slurs/rape jokes.
BTW, thanks for providing the evidence, ChasCPeterson, if you’re reading this. I know I shoulda dug it up myself, and you didn’t do it ‘for me’, but I liked that just the same.
Tony... therefore Godsays
dogeared, spotted, and foxed:
Tony, what a drag. Kinda weird, too. I’ve done my time in bars and seen enough utter crap to be extra super sensitive. I’ve also seen a new guy go from casual joking to call-a-cab concerned within just a few months. The discussions after a slimy creepy jerk leaves will do that.
It is becoming more difficult to bite my tongue and walk away from some of the things I hear at work. Alcohol can bring out some of the most undesirable traits in many people.
Oh Christ on a unicycle, I wake up, check FtB and am painfully reminded why I was not happy about Thunderf00t joining FtB. He might do a decent job at debunking creationists, he sure is crap at arguing… pretty much anything else really.
So now we have our own little slimepit here on FtB. Such fun. Urgh.
Ahmas, 32, French, a divorced single mother of a three-year-old daughter, puts her handbag on the table and takes out a pepper spray and attack alarm. She doesn’t live on the high-rise estates but on a quiet street of semi-detached houses. The last time she was attacked in the street a man and woman punched her in front of her daughter, called her a whore and told her to go back to Afghanistan. “My quality of life has seriously deteriorated since the ban. In my head, I have to prepare for war every time I step outside, prepare to come up against people who want to put a bullet in my head. The politicians claimed they were liberating us; what they’ve done is to exclude us from the social sphere. Before this law, I never asked myself whether I’d be able to make it to a cafe or collect documents from a town hall. One politician in favour of the ban said niqabs were ‘walking prisons’. Well, that’s exactly where we’ve been stuck by this law.”…
Kenza Drider, a 32-year-old mother of three, was famously bold enough to appear on French television to oppose the law before it came into force. She refuses to take off her niqab – “My husband doesn’t dictate what I do, much less the government” – but she says she now lives in fear of attack. “I still go out in my car, on foot, to the shops, to collect my kids. I’m insulted about three to four times a day,” she says. Most say, “Go home”; some say, “We’ll kill you.” One said: “We’ll do to you what we did to the Jews.” In the worst attack, before the law came in, a man tried to run her down in his car.
“I feel that I now know what Jewish women went through before the Nazi roundups in France. When they went out in the street they were identified, singled out, they were vilified. Now that’s happening to us.”
You can’t “liberate” women by telling them what to wear, and punishing them with criminal sanctions if they don’t comply. This law has nothing to do with combating sexism; it’s about cultural hegemony. For those women who want to wear the veil, banning the veil denies them the right to make their own choices about their appearance; and for those who are coerced into wearing it by family members, banning the veil doesn’t set them free, it just stops them from going out of the house and reduces their independence even further.
Folks, please tell that AronRa is not this clueless?
I would be surprised if AronRa was as clueless as Thunderfoot. After all, Tfoot has shown his cluelessness (is that a word?) time and time again whenever he strays from the subject of creationism. Just look at his videos on Islam.
Waltonsays
I don’t know anything much about Thunderf00t, other than having seen a few of his anti-creationist videos when they were linked here. But I gather that he’s an Islamophobe?
(I am really fed up with privileged white male atheists who think it’s ok to vilify and malign Muslims, despite the fact that Muslims are a marginalized and oppressed group in Western societies, and that anti-Muslim rhetoric plays right into the hands of the far right and their hostility to non-Western immigration.)
Tony... therefore Godsays
I think this counts as a win for ‘our side’:
David Blankenhorn, who had been seen as a leading voice in the campaign to keep marriage solely between a man and a woman, has stunned his supporters by penning a column in the New York Times in which he now says he supports gay marriage rights….
He is president of the Institute for American Values and author of a 2007 book called The Future of Marriage, which argued against same-sex marriage.
He has even served as an expert witness in California’s controversial fight over the so-called “Prop 8” law, which saw gay marriage stopped in America’s most populous state. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/23/gay-marriage-critic-david-blankenhorn
I would like to know *why* he changed his mind. I hope that he reached this conclusion after giving the matter serious thought. That would mean he comprehends why queers should be able to marry. That said, I’m happy there appears to be one less anti-gay activist out there.
psanitysays
I didn’t know a lot about Thunderfoot before, just that he made videos, but I’m so disappointed. I’ve seen each additional FTB blog as another shiny interesting thing, but this one is a bust.
Oh, well. Being a skeptic shouldn’t mean you have to give up a cherished belief system, or have to attempt an informed opinion. Apparently.
In other news, it looks like Justin is doing some serious regrouping. I hope he’s OK — he’s not a total idiot, and he does good work in the world, and I think he can get this. Learning can be so painful.
Well, let’s say he’s a bit paranoid when it comes to Islam, and his video about the ground zero ‘mosque’ was complete ill informed bullshit. He once made the claim that ‘even the most moderate Muslim is worse than the worst christian creationist’ (I don’t remember the exact wording, but it was something like this). That was when I stopped subscribing to his channel on youtube.
Waltonsays
Anyone who campaigned against the building of the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque” (which was neither a mosque nor located at Ground Zero) can be written off as a paranoid Islamophobe. Note to atheists: if you find yourself arguing on the same side of an issue as far right Tea Party activists, you’ve gone seriously wrong somewhere.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Social Change in India Makes Me Happy:
Eight weeks into its 13-episode run, the show is not only shaping public debate but has already shamed politicians into action. Two states have fast-tracked a law protecting children from sexual abuse and another has promised to open shops selling cut-price generic medicines. Rajasthan, the state with India’s highest male to female ratio, pledged to speed up court cases against those who practise gender-based abortion. The Rajasthan high court has also asked the state government to install active trackers at all sonography centres in the state within four months….
But in an interview with the Guardian, Khan revealed that greater ambitions lie ahead. “I am hoping for something bigger. And what is that? I’ll tell you: what is the intent of the show? When somebody watches, do we want them to go out into the street and join a revolution? No. We want him to make a revolution within himself.
Yes, they should have already had laws protecting children from sexual abuse, but they them have now. The Indian government should take this time to reevaluate other social issues negatively impacting their country.
psanitysays
I wonder what attracted Thunderfoot to FTB, seeing as how his first move was to point out that FTB’s bloggers are just totally not up to his standards of privileged social blindness.
Not to mention that he’s already backed up the drains and flooded the place. Ick.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
If anyone cares, Justicar has shown up in that Thunderchrist thread and my disgust level has shot through the floor.
[Possible trigger warning]
He went on this long screed about how awesome Abbie is, how Rebecca “pretended to lecture 3.5 billion people on how to treat the other 3.5 billion” and how “arrogant” that is. I expect that shit, but the really weird part is how he seems to be reveling in engaging in misogyny about Abbie as if it’s stuff that we’re saying, like that “the slimepit” is a reference to her vagina(?!).
Yep, touché.
Basically Thunderf00t claimed Muslim’s building the ‘ground zero mosque’ were like the Westboro baptist assholes protesting at funerals.
psanity @367
I wonder what attracted Thunderfoot to FTB, seeing as how his first move was to point out that FTB’s bloggers are just totally not up to his standards of privileged social blindness.
No idea. Especially since the opinions of FtB bloggers (well, a lot of them anyway)on issues such as feminism, affirmative action, etc… are pretty widely known. Another thing that bothers me immensely about Thunderf00t’s post is that he obviously hasn’t been reading all that’s been said about the matter here on FtB. He just doesn’t know what he’s on about. Every time it’s not about science, Thunderf00t just doesn’t bother looking at the evidence or doing a bit of research.
I think this may be as good as we’re going to get in the way of reasons:
“We’ve been fighting about gay marriage for what, 15-20 years now. Is there any evidence that fighting gay marriage is contributing to a greater appreciation among the broad society of the marital institution? Is there any evidence that the re-institutionalization of marriage is happening as a result of opposing gay marriage? And the best answer I can give to that is ‘no.’” – David Blankenhorn
birgerjohanssonsays
If the planetoid in “Alien” had a similar orbit it could explain how it could have a ringed gas giant planet visible in the sky and still not be a moon:
that maybe this alternate universe does exist where they are, in some way, right about stuff.
(four AM rambling because this shit keeps me awake) …I keep trying to figure out what on earth they’re on about, and the only halfway rational explanation I can find is that they seriously think all words are harmless by definition, thus any level of insult, slur, hatefulness etc only causes offence because the target’s at fault for not laughing it off, and the only “wrong” is condemning said speech. But that theory doesn’t even make sense for long, because they immediately turn around and use words as viciously as possible – slurring, lying, misrepresenting, eliding, gaslighting, picking up each others’ lies and spin and amplifying them, poisoning unrelated discussions, and counter-accusing anyone who calls them on their bullshit. “Free speech” is just a cover for “free-for-all” and they only scream about any attempt to referee. It doesn’t make sense to my literal mind, like a verbal optical illusion; I can’t focus on that crap for very long, much less argue against it. So, y’know, thanks y’all who actually take this shit head on.
Seriously, it’s never been a reference to a vagina, has it?
Never in the past year, not until J invented it just now. But that poisonous shit sounded juuuust plausible enough that some of it stuck, no? And now we can never un-hear it. (Mark the date; I bet this one will be repeated through winter.)
Louissays
I saw the arrival of Tfoot and Cris and AronRa, I will…
…await developments.
The assorted-isms/privilege blindness and assorted interblog dramatics on this segment of the web are getting on my nerves if I’m honest. And yeah, the ability to walk away from it is {drumroll} an aspect of privilege.
Meh, maybe it’s Monday Boredness.
Just this endless eyeroll worthy wankery of ZOMG SALLY STRANGE LOVES TEH RAYPE JOKE and TEH SLIMEPIT IS REALLY CUDDLEBUNNY CENTRAL and MEEN NAMEZ + BIGOTRTY and people being whinging tossers about being banned from this or that blog. Urgh it’s just so fucking dull.
The tedious fevered egos of the bruised man fee-fee crowd and the endless dishonest conflation of “treat women like people” with “SEX IS BAD” it’s just…..urgh.
There have to be better conversations out there. My disappointment in the human species has hit early this week I guess. Maybe it’s a come down after a weekend of debauchery.
Louis
Louissays
Caine,
Separate post for clarity of purpose!
1) YAYAYAYAYAYAYA CAINE!!!!!! {sprints over, launches through the air in a tackle-hug, realises mid flight that I am some dirty great lump of a bloke and Caine is about to be squished, performs abortive forward roll, calmly walks up to Caine and shakes her hand. Mild to moderate hugging ensues}
2) RATS! The best of luck to you and Momma Rat Esme!
Sorry but as a former snake owner and lover of the damned things, I can heartily recommend PZ’s #166. It’s tricky (emotionally, perhaps even ethically if you are considering the ethics of keeping pets at all) but doable, maybe I am just a callous bastard. We used to have a population of rats for rat pet and snake feeding purposes when I had my snake.
Louis
annasays
After waking up and reading thunderfoot I am glad I can come here and see a bit of appropriate disdain and disgust for such crap being posted.
I dont post often here but im glad this crowd exists for my reading pleasure and sanity.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Possible Trigger Warning:
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/24/terminally-ill-assisted-suicide-law-change
The tragic case of Tony Nicklinson has highlighted how as a society we have yet to resolve one of the most important ethical issues of our time: under what circumstances should the law allow medical assistance to enable somebody to die? Nicklinson, severely disabled as a result of locked-in syndrome, is challenging the existing application of murder law. Since he is asking for someone to directly end his life, what he is seeking is voluntary euthanasia (legal in the Benelux countries), not assisted dying (legal in the US states of Oregon, Montana and Washington).
Am I wrong in thinking that this is fundamentally an issue of individual autonomy? We are allowed to euthanize our pets, so it can’t be an issue of taking a life. This is specific to humanity. As if humans were something special. Or chosen.
Is it a religious issue? It would be easy to see opposition to assisted dying or euthanasia coming from religion. After all, one of the biggest religions on Earth, Christianity, looks down upon suicide (if Jesus=God and is omnipotent and omniscient, then he knew that one day he would send himself to earth to die for humanity; sure seems like suicide to me).
“It should not be forgotten that every patient has a right to bodily integrity. This encompasses the right to determine what medical procedures will be accepted and the extent to which they will be
accepted. Everyone has the right to decide what is to be done to one’s own body. This includes
the right to be free from medical treatment to which the individual does not consent. This
concept of individual autonomy is fundamental to the common law”..http://www.rsc.ca/documents/RSCEndofLifeReport2011_EN_Formatted_FINAL.pdf
There it is, in bold [my emphasis]. The fundamental concept: individual autonomy.
Why should people be able to risk their lives due to dangerous activities they engage in, yet they cannot retain control over their body should they desire to end their life?
Why can you mercifully and humanely put your beloved pet down if they’re suffering a terminal illness, but the same doesn’t hold for humanity?
Euthanasia addresses the end of life wishes for the individual. Others are free to seek or not seek out euthanasia, but they cannot expect others to share their opinions and they’ve no right to force their beliefs on others.
ImaginesABeachsays
Am I reading Thunderfoot right? It appears he is saying that in order to preserve people’s right to flirt and hook up in the bar after a conference, we cannot have a sexual harassment policy AT the conference.
Sophia Doddssays
Louis:
The all-or-nothing mentality with the insane conflations seems to be a symptom of privilege blindness. I’m currently dealing with a nasty case of it in my husband, who’s convinced himself somehow that groping my breasts without consent is perfectly justified since I can touch his chest freely without asking. You know, because there’s no societal difference between male and female breasts and no stigma or sexuality associated with one over the other. Yeah.
It seems to come about when a seemingly rational (to the person unknowingly inflicting harm) position is challenged – the objection in the first case might be sincere – “Wow, I didn’t know you felt that way, I’ve always done things this way and nobody’s ever objected before.”
This morphs into: “Who the hell are you to accuse me of this thing I don’t believe I’m doing wrong? You have no right to make me feel so bad, and I still think you’ve got it wrong so the problem’s obviously with you.”
This then becomes “You’re STILL going on about that? I’ve told you you’re wrong, I’ve dug myself in and I’ll continue to defend my indefensible position with whatever argument comes to mind regardless of whether or not it makes any practical sense, because to give in now would be a massive loss of face and winning is MUCH more important than being right!”
From there, it can only devolve into a poo-flinging match from the side who’s defending the indefensible because there’s literally nothing else for them to do at that point. They’re most likely aware on some level that there’s no real meat to their position, but the focus is on ‘not losing’ rather than doing what’s right. In other words, a lose-lose situation. Arguing further at this point is simply causing them to dig in further, whilst dropping the subject and refusing to engage any more means they ‘win’.
I’ve got no idea how to deal with that mentality, and it’s so disturbingly common. Had a long chat about it with my awesome psychiatrist today – we talked about debating techniques, rigid thinking and logical fallacies. He is so. cool. :)
Yargh, work, you are keeping me from being able to write, damn you!!! I have so much to write, so little time to do it, and I have to do work!! Stupid economy, why do I need to have money, I should just be able to write!
Oh right, cause if I weren’t working I’d be living with my parents and like hell they’d understand my desire to transition, and I’d be back in that little closeted world, and who knows what’d happen after that.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Owlmirror @374:
Thanks for that. That does point to a sincere change of heart. Not completely for reasons I would have preferred, but at least his change of heart seems to have involved taking an evidence based look at his beliefs.
Pteryxxsays
who’s convinced himself somehow that groping my breasts without consent is perfectly justified since I can touch his chest freely without asking. You know, because there’s no societal difference between male and female breasts
Um, the way I read it is that he’s OKAY with you touching his chest without asking, which means he consents to it. You’re not okay with him groping you without asking, so you don’t consent. Unwanted groping isn’t okay in general, regardless of gender or the parts involved. Societal differences *inform* each person’s decision, in that female breasts are considered to be more overtly sexual than male ones are; but it’s still fundamentally a person’s choice as to how and when they permit their body to be touched, not a quid pro quo.
Sophia Doddssays
Pteryxx:
Bingo. That was the point I was trying ot make before the situation got stupid and he started ‘digging in’ and bringing out the completely stupid arguments just to have something to say so as not to ‘lose’.
It’s ridiculous, and I don’t think he really believes that either, but it’s a desperate attempt to save face even though there’s no reason to do so.
Honestly, he’s not a bad person, but he is DEFINITELY a product of his upbringing and society in general. He fought hard to get where he is, so anything that challenges his perceived authority is an attack and has to be quashed by any means necessary. It’s a distinctly hopeless situation.
FossilFishy (Νεοπτόλεμος's spellchecker)says
Sophia:
Welcome, and hugs if you want them. This is indeed a safe space to vent. I wouldn’t worry about others having it worse than you though. It’s been my experience that those who’ve suffered tend to understand suffering. And those who don’t come through such experiences with a faculty for compassion don’t last long here.
I’m not a mental health professional in anyway so please treat my opinion as suspect, okay, it’s just one person’s observation after all. My abuse was purely psychological, an alcoholic father, and I’m pretty sure that the depression I suffered was the result of untreated PTSD. If your therapists haven’t mentioned PTSD I’d ask them about it and make sure that any treatment plan includes mitigation against it.
Tony @31
Thanks for that. As a Canadian ex-pat in Australia I’ll never get to testify before congress but the compliment is very much appreciated. That was indeed the tone I was going for and it was also why I hesitated to post it. It kinda felt like jumping up on a table and giving an impassioned speech at quiet dinner party where everyone is chatting about this and that. Mind you, the nice thing about comment threads is that one can simply skip over the stuff that’s not of interest. There is no real talking over one another unless things get out of hand and the comments are coming so fast that a sub-thread is hard to follow.
opposablethumbs
Thank you. I sounded lyrical in my head but there’s no way to know if that’s the way it fell on the page so your comment is much appreciated.
Ah Thunderfoot. I enjoyed his creationist series, and I loved his science videos, and I largely ignored his Islamic ones. Head in the sand, who me? But fuck me with a platypus, that post was pig ignorant bollocks with a side helping of carbonated pisswater. Now I see that he’s just another privilege blinded asshole who’s going full tilt for a mansplainin’ world record.
Go Tfoot, Go! You can do it, you can out slime the pitters. All you have to do is want it bad enough and the universe will surely hand you the Golden Turd of Crypto-Mysogyny on a rotting platter of unevidenced opinions, you fucking ignorant douchtoque.
birgerjohanssonsays
Re. Supernatural horror stories with Satan as baddie.
Re. the previous comment. “Zombie gophers” (at link) actually sound cute. Deterrent value = zero. If the book of revelations said “and the unbelievers shall be nibbled by undead gophers” it would fall flat.
Louissays
Sophia Dodds,
1) Hi and welcome to TET.
2) HOLY CRAP! I can only sympathise, that sounds like an annoying…erm…not just annoying btw…situation to be in.
The “not being wrong” thing. I know THAT well. It’s really hard to dial down sometime in an argument. I know loads of people that are really bad at it, and I have to think about it!
I’ve thought about changing fields to psychology to study the “not being wrong” phenomenon, I reckon there’s gold in them thar hills! ;-)
Louis
Sophia Doddssays
Thanks again, FossilFishy and Louis :)
Oddly enough, my analytical-to-the-point-of-wtf self feels a heck of a lot better after running my experiences through the Pharyngula mill. I think it’s because I’m able to recognise and compare behaviour patterns in some of the more infamous commenters on these blogs and the impeccable reasoning of a lot of the regulars.
I never got up the nerve to comment much before, but I think it might do me good to develop some nice, sniny fangs. A good solid foot-ectomy from the mouth region every now and then might do a world of good too.
Seriously though, the fuckers are like vampire tribbles…once you invite them in you’ll never get rid of all of them!
Roaches, actually.
(Oh, noes, I’ve dehumanized the slimepitters!! And they’ll be quoting me ad infinitum!)
A.R: LOL, “Thunderfap.” You know, I saw “thunderdouche” used as an epithet some time ago, and I was highly amused. I didn’t realize it would eventually be a proper as well as a common noun.
ibyea:
Oh jeez, what is it about simple advice to treat other people with decency that gets people so stupid and riled up?
Because they don’t consider women people, but objects there for teh menz’ amusement and convenience.
Andy, Thunderdouche appears to be somewhere on the political right. I have no interest in watching his videos or reading any more of his posts to find out specifically where he stands. As for the cultural pressure to wear the burqa, laws against it will not necessarily make those pressures disappear. There are laws against FGM in Western countries, too, yet it still goes on in those countries.
Walton:
You can’t “liberate” women by telling them what to wear
No shit. No matter who’s doing it: Fundie xtians, fundie Muslims, radical feminists, or the sorts of dudes who want to “liberate” us from our clothing because we should be proud to show off our skin (and a lot of them congregate on Nasreen’s blog).
Caine, why shouldn’t the job of someone like that be put on the line? I consider bringing that incident to management’s attention to be “cutting chips out of the monster,” as FossilFishy put it. If I were a woman, I wouldn’t want to be drinking in that bar. And, you know what, the odds are pretty good that the bartenders won’t be fired, anyway, because “blah blah blah overreacting political correctness blah blah blah.”
Seriously, fuck those bartenders. If they think rape is such a har-har issue they have no business working in a fucking bar. Tony, good for you for reporting it.
PTI, Thunderdump hasn’t even been on FTB for a week.
Also, according to this blogger, St0rmfr0nt seemed to really enjoy TF’s “Draw Muhammad Day” videos.
Pentatomid, TF seems to be one of those d00dz who doesn’t need to read up on any issues he considers unimportant before he opens his yap about them. Rather like the ones who drop into long threads about feminism without reading any preceding comments to offer us their “wisdom,” and then complain when it’s not accepted graciously.
Pteryxx, the straight cis white male d00dz are defending their privilege. There are no slurs targeted against them that have any serious social power; checking their ability to use slurs against people with less privilege than they have levels the playing field a little bit.
Sophia:
Honestly, he’s not a bad person…
He’s acting like a bad person. This is what’s important.
He fought hard to get where he is, so anything that challenges his perceived authority is an attack and has to be quashed by any means necessary.
Sorry, he is a bad person. Lots of us fought hard to get where we are. We don’t use that as an excuse to violate other people’s boundaries.
diannesays
Zombie gophers, vampire tribbles…I love TET.
birgerjohanssonsays
“Societal differences *inform* each person’s decision, in that female breasts are considered to be more overtly sexual than male ones are; but it’s still fundamentally a person’s choice as to how and when they permit their body to be touched, not a quid pro quo”
I would certainly not want a woman to grab my testicles, either. I hope the moron walks up to some film star with a six-foot bodyguard and tries his thing. After he has gotten his ass kicked the judge will explain “personal space” to him at length. Like, six month lenght.
Sophia Doddssays
@birgerjohansson
Interesting sentiment, but you’re talking about my husband. He’s not as stupid as he’s pretending to be, he just has that irritating ‘win at all costs’ attitude that’s prevalent in authoritatian types. Doesn’t excuse his behaviour at all of course, but it does explain it. I still hold out a small hope he can at least be made to understand where he’s gone wrong, in fact I’m pretty sure anyone can if they have a single shred of empathy for the person they’ve wronged. The struggle is to find out how, and that’s what I’m currently dealing with.
No, I’m not going to go back to the way things were and I’m not banking on him making a major personality change for my benefit, but I know there’s empathy in him, I’ve felt it on many occasions. Wouldn’t have married the guy otherwise, you know.
Louissays
Sophia,
I have to say I am a fan of the “public and loud testicle grabbing” solution. Done repeatedly and in the right environment (next to, for example, the grapefruit in the supermarket with a loud exclamation of “yours don’t really measure up do they sweetie”. Similar fun can be had by the cucumbers) I feel this could be a useful learning tool. Or at least something to tell the grandkids one day! ;-)
Louis
A. Rsays
I’m starting to think that we need a decon facility to get the toxic slime off of those of us who are commenting in the FtB slimepit before we comment on the rest of the FtB blogs. It won’t be long until we’re battling the Hoggle-meister himself.
The assorted-isms/privilege blindness and assorted interblog dramatics on this segment of the web are getting on my nerves if I’m honest.
I feel the same. And I would rather see my favourite FtB bloggers start talking and writing more about other stuff again, but that’s up to them of course, and there is a fair amount of shit to deal with right now. What I really don’t like are the calls of “why was blogger X allowed to join”, it’s called Freethoughtblogs, remember, all kinds of opinions and viewpoints should be allowed to be presented here, we can always disagree and criticize away, we’re not paying customers who might have some kind of right to an expectation of having only certain opinions voiced and expressed, and it’s Ed’s and PZ’s joint in the end.
For example take Thunderdolt, I really liked the guy before, and thought he did a great job with his creationist videos. This post of his has helped me revise and refine my opinion of him, and I definetely wouldn’t ever want a beer with the man. It’s a good thing !
Sophia Doddssays
Louis:
You make me laugh as I’m just getting all peevish again. Annoying knack for that, you have.
Argh. I feel crappy for defending the guy, I know it’s not the thing I should really be doing, but I can’t just up and move on. He genuinely doesn’t understand how much what he does hurts me, and I sympathise with that. His methods are exasperatingly stupid and I shouldn’t be blah blah blah etc.
I dunno. I’ve been married a couple years and it’s really not been all bad. I obviously can’t go on as things were, but I can’t up and decide he’s pure evil when he clearly isn’t. Intent isn’t magic, we all know that, but ignorance is a big part of it and that can be corrected if there’s a strong enough spark of feeling there. I just have to find out whether that’s the case.
*sigh*
Sucky, sucky times.
Tony... therefore Godsays
FossilFishy:
It kinda felt like jumping up on a table and giving an impassioned speech at quiet dinner party where everyone is chatting about this and that. Mind you, the nice thing about comment threads is that one can simply skip over the stuff that’s not of interest. There is no real talking over one another unless things get out of hand and the comments are coming so fast that a sub-thread is hard to follow.
*Quiet* dinner?
This crowd?
Oh, and looking back at TET over the last few days, I think that little slow down we had isn’t going to last long. Especially when everyone is able to get their laptops/computers back up and running (which reminds me, I need to get a new hard drive for mine, so I can stop using this Mac that makes me feel more tech inept than my normal PC)
Argh. I feel crappy for defending the guy, I know it’s not the thing I should really be doing, but I can’t just up and move on. He genuinely doesn’t understand how much what he does hurts me, and I sympathise with that. His methods are exasperatingly stupid and I shouldn’t be blah blah blah etc.
I dunno. I’ve been married a couple years and it’s really not been all bad. I obviously can’t go on as things were, but I can’t up and decide he’s pure evil when he clearly isn’t. Intent isn’t magic, we all know that, but ignorance is a big part of it and that can be corrected if there’s a strong enough spark of feeling there. I just have to find out whether that’s the case.
My advice so feel free to tell me to fuck off. Try to stop thinking like that. People who are abusive use that to walk all over people. Don’t get into the trap of feeling guilty for being mad at someone who treats you bad because they’re sometimes nice. You’re worth being treated well 100% of the time, not 80 or 50 or 12 or whatever.
diannesays
I can’t up and decide he’s pure evil when he clearly isn’t.
I apologize if this advice is unwanted, but…I’m sure your husband is not pure evil. But it doesn’t sound like he’s in a place yet where he can have an egalitarian and healthy relationship with you. Not putting up with his BS may be the only thing you can reasonably do for him now to set him on the path to some more reasonable mindset.
Of course, usual caveats about my not knowing your situation, etc. I’m just going by what you’ve said here.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Sophia:
Oddly enough, my analytical-to-the-point-of-wtf self feels a heck of a lot better after running my experiences through the Pharyngula mill.
It’s so refreshing to know that there are others out there are analytical -to-the-point-of-wtf. I’m the opposite of impulsive (by and large). When I plan for something (moving or vacation) I will overthink everything. Decision making can be tough too, because I’ve got so many thoughts percolating upstairs and I’m constantly thinking and rethinking to the point that I don’t get anything accomplished.
Sophia Doddssays
Ing:
True. It’s very strange – I’ve read the studies, I’ve given the same advice to people myself. When you’re actually going through it, it’s… well. It’s so different. It’s incredibly difficult to -not- give the benefit of the doubt to somoene you’ve made an emotional committment to, even if it’s not being properly reciprocated. On a strange meta level the little analytical scientist person in my head is taking notes in a little goatee-beard wearing, German-accented labcoaty kind of way and cross-referencing my own experiences with what I know about people in abusive relationships.
Goes to show how hard it is to apply knowledge when you’ve got a real emotional investment in a particular situation sometimes. Interesting, really, and quite telling.
Sophia Doddssays
@dianne:
You’re right, and that’s exactly what I’m doing right now. :)
@tony:
Indeed! Do you get the multi-levelled meta brain analysis goin on in every situation too? No matter how bad I get, how bad my depressive episodes get and how weird things become physically and mentally, I’ve always got a few little chattering brain bits that comment and analyse everything to varying degrees of weird pedantry. I always thought I was a bit weird that way – my psychologist certainly thought so :P
Sophia, I agree entirely with Ing. Have you heard of “the cycle of abuse”? The abuser’s occasional displays of kindness, apologies, etc. serve the purpose of creating self-doubt in the victim — and, in front of third parties, boosting the abuser’s credibility.
Tony... therefore Godsays
At last check, we have:
Thunderdump.
Thunderdouche.
Thunderfap.
Thunderdolt.
Yep. I know a lot about it, and as I said I’ve given the same advice to people in similar situations. I know what I should be doing – at least the rational part of my brain does. That part also tells me that I’m not going back to that relationship no matter what the outcome (excepting an impossible permanent revelation, self-reflection and reversal in behaviour) and that what I’m doing is the right thing to do.
The emotional part of me, however, can’t give up on the ideal. You know, that nasty socialised part of you that yearns for the idyllic happy marriage scenario where your child will grow up with two loving parents who are together and happy and everything is love and kittens and large buckets for vomiting into due to the sickly sweetness of the whole thing.
I always figured I had that emotional part all squashed away inside a nice little reason-reinforced cage. Turns out it’s just not that easy. Having the little guy involved just makes it harder still.
Sophia Doddssays
I like “Chunderf00t”, but it only really makes sense if you’re Aussie or fluent in Stupid Aussie Slang.
diannesays
You know, that nasty socialised part of you that yearns for the idyllic happy marriage scenario where your child will grow up with two loving parents who are together and happy and everything is love and kittens and large buckets for vomiting into due to the sickly sweetness of the whole thing.
And everyone takes their insulin daily due to the treacle induced diabetes, no doubt.
That would all be very well, if you had it. But you don’t and have to deal with real life as it is. Please don’t believe the claims that you must stay together for the child. The research supporting that is flawed, to put it mildly (will give more details if you want, but won’t bother if you’re not interested.) There is some reasonable quality research suggesting that level of conflict is more important than the divorce/no divorce decision in how well kids do. A high conflict marriage may actually do more damage than a relatively civilized divorce. Also your kid is 3 months old, IIRC? Whatever is going on will be his “normal”.
Disclosure: I grew up in a household with two parents who were unhappy but trying to stay together until they got rid of the kids. It was less than ideal, but my childhood is not your situation and you should keep in mind that my advice may have a bias due to personal anecdote.
Sophia Doddssays
@dianne
Yup. Re-reading the post above it might seem as though that squirmy little emotional ideal-worm might be winning, but you can be reassured it’s not. As I continue to talk to my psychiatrist, family and other people about things, the more I’m resolved to stand my ground, not go back and just try to get a dialogue going to determine the future of my possessions, cat and other such sundry issues. (Except my cat. She’s not sundry at all and I miss her deeply. :( )
I suppose I’m trying to simply remark on how oddly difficult it is to defend against that part of you rather than saying I’m struggling with it in a particularly unhealthy way. I’m weird like that, everything’s a big opportunity for observation and research. Totally the reason I went into chefing rather than staying at university and finishing my genetics degree. Derp.
Daisy: Barely a week and that place is a disgrace? That’s scary.
Also, how about Thunderdunce?
—————————————–
Caine: Vampire duckie is adorable! Nerd duckie looks almost like Velma. I can’t wait to see how this one turns out.
—————————————–
Jackass bartenders: Haven’t met any myself, but maybe I’ve just been lucky. Tony’s post made me flash back to the time we scoping out places for an engagement party for Brother and SiL. Once we’d decided that the place we were in was just the ticket, the waiter actually asked if there would be any single women at the party.
I was single at the time. In fact, I would be the only single woman there. Aaaaand cue the encouragement to flirt and blah blah blah with said waiter.
Looking back, I realize now that aside from not being very dependable (the guy was fired not long after that night), that was kind of a creepy thing of him to ask. Creepier still was how Mom prodded me to act around him. I wish I could rewind back to that point and tell her to stop.
The next time something like that happens, I think I will have to tell my family to shut up and leave me out of it. It’s crystal-clear to me now why I got angry each time she or someone else pulled shit like that on me. /end personal reflection
————————————————
Rainy day, storms on and off. There goes my plan to get a run in. Time for lunch.
Matt Penfoldsays
Who’s got more?
Well he probably regards himself as Thunderpants, using the British meaning of pants. I suspect the women he comes into contact with would not agree though.
Pteryxxsays
Sophia: a few years back, two friends and I had a surreal chat where each of us, in turn, described receiving what was plainly abusive behavior to the OTHER two friends, while being unable to perceive it as abusive ourselves. Sometimes we were describing *the same behavior* to each other, yet we’d say “That’s terrible!” to the others and somehow justify it or excuse it when applied to oneself. It’s oddly difficult to go from “This person you care about is being abusive to you” to “This person I care about is being abusive TO ME”. Sense it does not make. So, it might be useful to accept it as a common cognitive illusion. (That was my introduction to the concept of cognitive dissonance. It still took over six months for me to go from “This is abusive behavior” to “I am being abused” myself.)
Try re-reading or imagining your description coming from a friend or acquaintance, or one of us here, with X and Y for the names. I bet pattern recognition kicks in.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
I usually refer to him as Thunderchrist, since he’s apparently the savior not only of science, but now of skeptics ravaged by mindless feminism OOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA!
Sophia, #413, I understand. But I think Dianne is worth listening to. That “idyllic happy marriage/family scenario” is, insofar as it’s promulgated as an ideal, politically oppressive to abused spouses (and abused children), as well as to the many of us who don’t fit into that ideal at all. What I said waaaay up at comment #17 about family veneration applies to significant others as well.
Beatricesays
*waves at Sophia Dodds*
—–
The last couple of weeks FTB has started to look like one of those huge pileups on a highway that started with a little accident, but cars just keep hitting it.
Really – I do recognise it – now. I believe I was trying to make that point in my first post on this thread thanking Pharyngulites and the FTB crew in general for waking me up to the situation in the first place.
It takes a goddamned long time and a lot of shit to have it finally dawn on you, and I think if I hadn’t been an avid reader of these blogs and the recent sexism and privilege discussions hadn’t have happened I might still be a passenger chained in the hold of the SS Clueless.
Silisays
cicely,
[…]Thor/Loki stuff?
*blinkblink*
I am obviously way more naive than I thought.
Well, it’s just the shiny Avengers version. Not the real thing.
*hugs again to Sophia*
—
Anyone have the Fitzgerald translation of the Aeneid? I seem to have left mine somewhere (*sad*), and there’s a passage I’m trying to find. (When Apollo possesses the Cumaean Sibyl.)
Silisays
As for Thunderwhatsit, you can hardly blame PZed alone for inviting him here. My impression was the backchannel runs more or less like a collective, so if he’s here, it’s because a majority wanted him.
And if he’s a Libertarian, won’t Brayton have thrown in with him?
Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoysays
This one is for personal purposes, not scholarly. I’m not always super incompetent.
Silisays
JT Failhard really should choose his words more wisely. It’s hard not to read his latest headline as passive-aggressive:
Atheists fighting real problems in the real world. Go figure.
This seems to be a good enough thread for a technical question about this site. Whenever I’m commenting, I always see the following three checkboxes below:
☐ Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.
☐ Notify me of follow-up comments by email.
☐ Notify me of new posts by email.
I know what the last one means, but can anyone differentiate the first two? I assume it’s just a bug of some sort? For what it’s worth, I’m logged in with my Google account.
JT Failhard really should choose his words more wisely. It’s hard not to read his latest headline as passive-aggressive:
This bugs me less than his somewhat ghoulish project to get the “truth” out of Leah Libresco about her conversion to catholicism. Who the fuck is he to go all righteous inquisitor on her ? It’s sensationalist and misguided in my view, and I have told him so on G+ already.
cicelysays
Welcome in, Sophia Dodds, and I wish that we were meeting you under better circumstances. Unfortunately (for a given definition of “unfortunately”), I have no relevent experience from which to offer advice…but I’m sure that there are others here who are. All I can offer you is moral support. :(
–
If all the paranoid bigoted whitey parents take their kids out and ‘homeschool’ them, then the education gap might actually start shrinking!
Not so much, if/when their ignorant paranoid bigoted whitey offspring are later sponsored in public office. At this point the words “Liberty College” spring to mind….
–
The lady even showed me how to tie it so the cloak wouldn’t ride up and choke me.
I can haz description, pls???
–
Silisays
This bugs me less than his somewhat ghoulish project to get the “truth” out of Leah Libresco about her conversion to catholicism. Who the fuck is he to go all righteous inquisitor on her ? It’s sensationalist and misguided in my view, and I have told him so on G+ already.
Prurient seems more like it.
I hadn’t heard of this stalker project of his. I only know of the cancer charity post because it was in the list of recent ones on the right, and I wanted to see what kinda shit he was trying to stir up this time.
cicley: It sounds uncomfortable, which is why I wouldn’t have thought of it myself, I guess. In reality, it’s simple and not all that uncomfortable.
Take the ties and bring them under your armpits. Tie them in back, below your shoulder blades, in much the same way you’d tie shoes. For colder weather, just criss-cross the ties under your chin and then take the ends and do the behind-the-back part. See? No more choking!
Pteryxxsays
Insomniac: so the weight of the cloak’s worn more or less like a backpack would be? Sounds awesome.
Dogeared, aaaaw, I’m so sorry you’re ratless. It’s tough, when you miss them so.
PTI:
Nerd duckie looks almost like Velma.
Velma! Oh gods, you’re right. Hee. From now on, she shall be known as Velma Duckie.
Daisy, what’s the point in getting someone fired and not only leaving them with the same sexist views, but views which might well become bitter and entrenched thanks to losing a job? I’d prefer to see people educated on matters.
cicelysays
Ah; thanks, PTI. That does sound workable, but I’d have to retrofit ties onto mine. It’s thick, and lined, and I don’t think that I’m at all up to not making a terrible hack-job of it (what with my To The Death! relationship of mutual loathing with the evil Sewing Machine), but I’ll keep the tip tucked back in my mind, for later.
–
Caine, what’s the point of confronting bigoted attitudes if bigots suffer no consequences? Would you at least support firing them if, once spoken to, they continued to espouse those attitudes at work?
Also, it wasn’t, if you’ll excuse the expression, “just” sexist remarks, e.g. “women are bitches.” The server sounded as though he were actively planning to commit a rape. He may have been talking about a woman not in the restaurant, but he has access to the drinking glasses of customers. If I were a bar or restaurant owner I wouldn’t want him in my establishment, and not just out of disgust and anger but because he could harm one of my customers and, eventually, my reputation.
I could see giving the bartender a bit more slack, but not the server.
Er, yea. No. That’s not funny, I’m with Caine on this one.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
In other news, the Farm Bill is going to cut 4.5 billion from the food stamp program and give it to, among other things, corporations that make sugar! Because sugar is so nutritious! I LOVE IT!!!!!*
*I don’t love it.
Silisays
Fair ‘nough.
Thanks.
thunk = ∫ SQRRAWK! d(MQG)says
rorachach:
I don’t drink anyway, what’s the point?
diannesays
In other news, the Farm Bill is going to cut 4.5 billion from the food stamp program and give it to, among other things, corporations that make sugar! Because sugar is so nutritious!
Actually sugar (glucose) is a macronutrient. You can’t live without some source of calories. I agree with your basic point but get finicky about the popular definition of “nutritious”. Sugar and fat are nutrients, they’re just nutrients that we have in an overabundance to the point of toxic effects. And growers/refiners of sugar should stop being corporate welfare cheats.
diannesays
Although the fact that Toomey is one of the sponsors of the repeal sugar subsidies amendment does make me wonder if maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all. The man’s not a Santorum, but he’s quite the Republican.
Pteryxxsays
In other news, the Farm Bill is going to cut 4.5 billion from the food stamp program and give it to, among other things, corporations that make sugar!
And then they can institute sin taxes to raise the price of overly-sugared foods and drinks, and attempt to ban unhealthy “luxury” foods from the food stamp program, so poor people have to pay even more money to the sugar corporations to actually eat their products!
Can we tax or restrict sugar-food marketing to children yet? Yeah, that’s what I thought. *snort*
Pteryxx @ 436: Yes, exactly like a backpack. It’s easy to take off the cloak as well, just untie in back and it slides right off. If I manage to find a fleece one for the colder months, I’m checking the ties to make sure they’re long enough for this method.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Actually sugar (glucose) is a macronutrient. You can’t live without some source of calories. I agree with your basic point but get finicky about the popular definition of “nutritious”. Sugar and fat are nutrients, they’re just nutrients that we have in an overabundance to the point of toxic effects. And growers/refiners of sugar should stop being corporate welfare cheats.
dianne…I know sugar has nutritional content. By my sarcastic “it’s so nutritious” comment, I meant it’s not a replacement for a diet consisting of actual food, something a lot of people will no longer be getting when the food stamp program is gutted.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Sophia:
Here’s an example:
A few months ago, T and I went out for a few drinks on a Sunday night. The bar was virtually empty save the two of us, two other patrons, and the owner/bartender. At one point I went to the bathroom and noticed the stall was drenched in urine (guys can be disgusting in the restroom; don’t get me started on how often I see guys *not* wash their hands in bathrooms). As I’m standing there, my analytical to a point mind starts thinking about how I was told it was dead all night, so that meant there weren’t many guests that would have passed through the bathroom. I thought about the other duo that was in there, and thought maybe it was one of them. Then I found out the restaurant next door (that share’s a restroom) was closed, so no one from there would have used the bathroom. It was more than likely one of the two people that were in there (or the owner). In any case, the specifics don’t matter. It was my brain running unchecked, making connections where there may or may not have been any and I wish I could have hit the big STOP button.
diannesays
RahXephon: Don’t mind me. I’m just being literal minded. You’re entirely right.
I’m not sure what the people who no longer qualify for food stamps are supposed to do. Beg on the street? Go to church in the hopes of getting some food with their propaganda?
I do still wonder what Toomey’s up to with sponsoring this bill though and what might have been hidden in the fine print. Maybe I’m misjudging him. A look at his actual legislation suggest that he does sometimes sponsor sound bills. But…well, it’s hard to trust someone who is overtly pro-rapist and anti-equality, no matter how many sensible bills on agriculture reform he sponsors.
It shouldn’t surprise me, but it does, that people have responded to that law with increased hostility and bigotry towards women wearing the veil. Chalk that up to another reason for misanthropy.
Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Ovensays
So as not to derail the conversation there, I have a question inspired by one of the subdiscussions on the Thunderfoot thread:
I agree that calling adult women “girls” is infantilizing. However, I’ve encountered a handful of women, mainly in their 20s, who object to being referred to as “women” and prefer “girls,” saying that it makes them “feel old.”
Is it worth pointing out that this feeds into a lot of really messed up attitudes, or should I just humor them?
Tony... therefore Godsays
Caine:
Velma! Oh gods, you’re right. Hee. From now on, she shall be known as Velma Duckie.
Velma Duckie, you’re the one
You make mysteries lots of fun…
(sorry, the old kids song about the rubber ducky is now on constant replay in my head)
~~~
RahXephon:
xI usually refer to him as Thunderchrist, since he’s apparently the savior not only of science, but now of skeptics ravaged by mindless feminism OOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA!
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunderchrist HO!
~~
chrismorrow @431:
When you find out, let me know please? I’ve been wondering about that for the longest time.
I also wish the ‘allowed tags’ had directions on how to use them. I usually stick with _blockquote_ or _cite_ for quoting others. I’m lost on how to use the _a href_, _abbr title_, _blockquote cite_ and I don’t know what _code_, _del datetime_, or _em_ are for…
~~
Sili:
My impression was the backchannel runs more or less like a collective, so if he’s here, it’s because a majority wanted him.
I think my confusion over his inclusion lies in a misconception I had about FtB. I know there’s not a central message, but I got the impression (anyone who knows better, *please* correct me) that FtB was largely a progressive collection of bloggers. The advancement of social justice, while tackled differently by the various blog hosts, seemed to my eyes to be a common theme amongst many here.
Taslima’s issues (inability to provide adequate citations, generalizations, and lack of skepticism) and Thundercrap’s misogyny laden *opening* post (I wonder if he’s here because he’s an atheist vlogger who possibly has a large number of followers; I personally want little to do with a misogynist ass like that, whether he’s atheist or not), they don’t seem to fit the overall mentality here. I don’t think it’s a huge deal or anything, but the two of them seem to stand out like a sore thumb to me (and while differing views are great, regressive ones are not, IMO).
~~~
Katherine, Caine:
I agree. That one was offensive.
I even clicked on a few of the other memes. Even seemingly innocent ones were offensive (one of the Jesus gif’s I clicked on was just sexist as fuck).
~~~
Sophia:
I giggled a bit at SS Clueless. Thanks. :)
~~~
rorschach :
Dry July sounds like a good idea. I don’t know that I could refrain from drinking for a month. There are times I get stressed out at work, and working behind a bar, my first thought is “I need a shot”. I may try it out for a week though.
~~~
PTI:
Creepier still was how Mom prodded me to act around him. I wish I could rewind back to that point and tell her to stop.
Was she trying to play matchmaker?
diannesays
@454: As a 44 year old, I’m tempted to tell you to laugh disdainfully and spit on their foolish concept of what “old” is. At least, that’s what my 98 year old great aunt did when I complained about feeling old to her.
Ok, seriously this time: If you’re close enough to them to be able to say this without it being uselessly confrontational and unlikely to make them think, yes, I think it would be worth pointing out that this attitude is screwed up. If for no other reason than because 20somethings should want to feel older. Middle age is the period of power as far as career and consumerism go. Twentysomethings should be looking forward to their 30s-50s, not looking back on their teens with nostalgia. Also, the sex really is better, if only because it takes a couple of decades for the average woman to figure out how to ask for what she wants and sometimes nearly that long to figure out what she wants, besides to please some man.
Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Ovensays
*nods* okay.
If you’re close enough to them to be able to say this without it being uselessly confrontational and unlikely to make them think
Any advice on how to determine this? Or is that too broad of a question for this format?
diannesays
Any advice on how to determine this?
Er…could I pass this question off to someone neurotypical?
If the first 20 mins mean anything, Looks like the new HBO show The Newsroom has some promise
As much as I love Sam Waterston in the amiable drunken boss role, I’ve gotta point out this supercut: Sorkinisms.
Aaron Sorkin just isn’t as clever as everyone wants us to believe.
Tony... therefore Godsays
rorschach:
I just watched the Sell The Vatican video via the link on your blog. I’ve never listened to Sarah Silverman before. Wow, that was funny as hell!
Thanks.
Silisays
I wonder if he’s here because he’s an atheist vlogger who possibly has a large number of followers
*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*
–o–
For the time being I’m prepared to give Nasreen somewhat more rope (to hang herself?), since her background is far less privileged*, and she may have internalised more misogyny than she herself realises.
* comparatively. She had a forgiving and supporting father, received a good education and had the contacts to be published.
Sophia:
Count me in with those who say that you’re husband’s being an abusive asshole, and while he’s probably not pure evil that’s no reason why you should be expected to put up with his shit.
Louis: I too have to fight constantly against the need to be always right.
Silisays
Louis: I too have to fight constantly against the need to be always right.
I don’t. I’m a teacher.
ImaginesABeachsays
Er…could I pass this question off to someone neurotypical?
Do we have anyone like that here?
Tony... therefore Godsays
dianne:
Actually sugar (glucose) is a macronutrient. You can’t live without some source of calories. I agree with your basic point but get finicky about the popular definition of “nutritious”. Sugar and fat are nutrients, they’re just nutrients that we have in an overabundance to the point of toxic effects. And growers/refiners of sugar should stop being corporate welfare cheats.
If I can pick your brain (or any knowledgeable Pharyngulite) for a moment…
Given the wealth of disinformation on the net, are there any sites you recommend for accurate information on HFCS?
I’ve also heard about corn and milk being items that the human body doesn’t digest easily or at all. Sifting through the crap online is so frustrating at times.
ChasCPetersonsays
corn and milk being items that the human body doesn’t digest easily or at all
Believe it. Grits kill.
Silisays
Milk is certainly a problem that has only been fixed by genetics in some populations (us pale Northerners who might otherwise starve/lack vitamin D).
There was an infamous court case where the dairyfarmers’ association got away with claiming “Milk is good for every body”. California, I think.
Skeptoid did an episode on HFSC, but I kept yelling at for using chemistriness. It may well be true that all that matters is caloric intake, but metabolism is a complex feedback system, so it may well be that an imbalance of fructose, glucose and sucrose does screw with the body’s equilibrium (I think artificial sweeteners do, because our brains receive the “sweet” signal, but the “calories!” signal never goes off, so we end up even more hungry).
My point is, that whatever the truth, Skeptoid did not help me discover it.
The Laughing Coyote (Canis Sativa)says
Tony: I think most people can vouch for corn being hard to digest.
Tony... therefore Godsays
RE: milk
A discussion I overheard at work one day mentioned that there is an enzyme that humans produce that allows us to break down milk while we’re young, but as we enter adolescence that enzyme is not produced in our bodies any longer. True? False?
(in the same conversation, someone mentioned that mammals in the wild do not drink milk much-if at all-after they’re weaned from it)
Tony... therefore Godsays
Chas:
but grits and scrambled eggs are so good together!
Oh fer chrissakes, the Vatican really does not understand irony, (either that or the Vatican has a really wicked sense of humor, and we’ve just been missing it).
The Vatican recognizes that they have a PR problem, but rather than correct some of the causes of their PR problems they have hired a Fox News man who is also a member of Opus Dei to make the Vatican look better, more transparent perhaps?, more tolerant perhaps?, less dogmatic perhaps?, more truthful? to we the peoples of earth.
The Vatican has brought in the Fox News correspondent in Rome to help improve its communications strategy as it tries to cope with years of communications blunders and one of its most serious scandals in decades…
Greg Burke, 52, will leave Fox to become a senior communications adviser in the Vatican’s secretariat of state, the Vatican and Burke told the AP….
He defined his job, which he said he had been offered twice before, as: “You’re shaping the message, you’re molding the message, and you’re trying to make sure everyone remains on-message. And that’s tough….
Burke, a native of St. Louis, Missouri, is a member of the conservative Opus Dei movement. Pope John Paul II’s longtime spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, was also a member of Opus Dei….
RE: milk
A discussion I overheard at work one day mentioned that there is an enzyme that humans produce that allows us to break down milk while we’re young, but as we enter adolescence that enzyme is not produced in our bodies any longer. True? False?
(in the same conversation, someone mentioned that mammals in the wild do not drink milk much-if at all-after they’re weaned from it)
True; it’s lactase. Lactose intolerance might be better thought of as lactase persistence, and it’s a mutation only available in some populations.
–
but grits and scrambled eggs are so good together!
*Homer drool!*
Damn, I’m hungry.
ChasCPetersonsays
there is an enzyme that humans produce that allows us to break down milk while we’re young, but as we enter adolescence that enzyme is not produced in our bodies any longer. True? False?
True. It’s lactase, the enzyme that breaks down the primary carbohydrate in milk (lactose). This cause ‘lactose intolerance’.
However, most people who trace their ancestries back to Northern Europe (and a couple other areas) have inherited the lactose-tolerance mutation that keeps active lactase present in the intestine troughout adulthood.
But that’s the only part of milk that’s ‘hard to digest’–the proteins, lipids, no problem.
Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Ovensays
RE: milk
A discussion I overheard at work one day mentioned that there is an enzyme that humans produce that allows us to break down milk while we’re young, but as we enter adolescence that enzyme is not produced in our bodies any longer. True? False?
(in the same conversation, someone mentioned that mammals in the wild do not drink milk much-if at all-after they’re weaned from it)
My understanding is that this is true for most species of mammals and some populations of humans – specifically, the enzyme is lactase, used to break down the sugar lactose which is characteristic of milk. Some populations of humans continue to produce lactase even after being weaned, and thus are able to digest dairy products even in adulthood. Since most Europeans are in that group, those who don’t have the derived condition of lactase persistence, and instead display the ancestral condition of ceasing lactase production, get labeled as “lactose-intolerant.” It’s NOT true that humans generally aren’t able to digest milk or milk products, though.
(I may be oversimplifying. Anyone else?)
Azkyroth, Former Growing Toaster Ovensays
Err…yeah, that. Damnit.
ChasCPetersonsays
As for fructose vs. glucose, there are differences. Most cells cannot import much fructose, so it all gets handled by the liver. Glucose is transported into most cells thanks to the actions of insulin. And increased circulating glucose triggers insulin secretion, whereas high fructose levels apparently do not.
Once either is inside a cell, it doesn’t matter as they are readily interconverted.
Sucrose is broken into glucose + fructose before absorption so is irrelevant.
Tony: Speaking of Taslima, here’s another post of hers that makes me facepalm. It’s one thing to point out that women are shamed for having bodies in many ways, and one of them is mockery of natural, healthy vaginal odor. It’s another to tell women what they should and shouldn’t do, and especially order them not to use anything “fake.”
I replied with a link to this terrific post I just found. Goddamn it, between her and the Nice Helpful D00dz on Tumblr who think women are just dying to be validated by them, I feel like slapping on five pounds of makeup and spritzing myself with the cheapest, harshest floral cologne I can find.
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
RahXephon, Waahmbulance Driver for St. Entitlement's Hospitalsays
Most cells cannot import much fructose, so it all gets handled by the liver. Glucose is transported into most cells thanks to the actions of insulin. And increased circulating glucose triggers insulin secretion, whereas high fructose levels apparently do not.
So, what are the health effects of this? From the Wikipedia article, it mentions “non-alcholic fatty liver disease”, I assume because all that extra fructose is going to the liver?
Tony... therefore Godsays
Audley:
grits, scrambled eggs, and proscuitto chips crumbled on top :)
(I just ate some turkey sausage atop a quinoa/taboule mix and now I want to eat again)
Creepier still was how Mom prodded me to act around him. I wish I could rewind back to that point and tell her to stop.
Was she trying to play matchmaker?
That was likely the primary motivation. Kind of like how she yelled out “How about a date with the girl wearing the Icebreakers T-shirt!” when I was helping at a tag sale someplace and had to wear said shirt. (Sometimes I wonder if she’d done that shit if my brother had been the one wearing the shirt).
…so now the creationists have yet another proof of evolution to ignore.
— — — — — — — —
A Fox News correspondent who is a member of Opus Dei and is now working for the Vatican… we have the world’s first real supervillain!
— — — — — — — —
Can we combine the components of “Thunderfoot” and “Rincewind”?
Rincethunder? Footwind?
cicelysays
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor.
Oh, yes indeed! Two important factors here:
1) just piss; and
2) on the floor.
I worked night shift at a convenience store that was the first place with a public restroom, and that was open all night, as you came into town from the C&W nightclub. I soon learned never to leave an open can of Comet in there—not unless I wanted to scrub the so-charming attempts of the club habituees’ to pee their names on the walls, then dust them with the Comet for greater visibility.
Cicely, one of my janitor friends used to work in a school system. In a girls’ bathroom in an elementary school one night, he found the word “SHIT” written in shit on the wall, in large letters.
The other janitor friend used to work in a high school and once found a bowl, as in a serving bowl, full of human feces, set down right in the middle (lengthwise and crosswise) of a corridor.
***
John “maddog” Hall, one of the main contributors to the Linux kernel, came out of the closet yesterday in his tribute to Alan Turing. The language isn’t un-problematic from our POV (e.g., he uses the term “homosexual” instead of gay throughout), but it’s an interesting essay.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ms. Daisy:
Speaking of Taslima, here’s another post of hers that makes me facepalm. It’s one thing to point out that women are shamed for having bodies in many ways, and one of them is mockery of natural, healthy vaginal odor. It’s another to tell women what they should and shouldn’t do, and especially order them not to use anything “fake.”
I think her tendency to pretty much demand that things should be a certain way (her way) along with the tenuous supporting arguments (with insufficient citation) she offers do not lend themselves to individuality. Likewise, her tendency to frame her “arguments” in her own subjective terms rather than a more universal approach shows that she may benefit from exploring ethics to a greater degree (I’ve stumbled across an Australian site on ethics that I’m thoroughly engrossed in right now: http://www.ethicalrights.com/faqs/80-about-ethics.html)
juliansays
Who the fuck is he to go all righteous inquisitor on her ? It’s sensationalist and misguided in my view, and I have told him so on G+ already.
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks so. Libresco har probably answered any question he’s going to pose at her and is likely dealing with enough bullshit for choosing to become a Catholic. If it were just criticism, whatever, but honestly demanding she answer for what’s clearly a personal choice?
Then again, I’m led to believe she’s friends with Jen McCreight so maybe they’re already well acquainted (enough for this to be acceptable to her anyway). I guess that makes it okish.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ms. Daisy:
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
Speaking of unsavory restrooms, I’ve heard some women mention that they think women’s restrooms are nastier than men’s. I have probably been in the ladies room a handful of times in the past, and it’s always been after hours as we’re closing and about to leave (usually to double check the general cleanliness) and I’ve not seen nastiness to the degree I see in men’s rooms. I’m inclined to see men as being the messier if for no other reason than when we’re drunk, we can stand up and urinate (of course that’s no guarantee the urine will go where it’s *supposed* to go).
I’ve also heard the claim that women’s restrooms are worse than men’s. I really doubt it, too. Not that some women aren’t slobs (the princesses who hover over the seat and sprinkle pee on it so their dainty behinds won’t touch it absolutely infuriate me), but women are socialized far more than men are to be clean and to consider others.
Tony... therefore Godsays
Ms. Daisy:
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
Speaking of unsavory restrooms, I’ve heard some women mention that they think women’s restrooms are nastier than men’s. I have probably been in the ladies room a handful of times in the past, and it’s always been after hours as we’re closing and about to leave (usually to double check the general cleanliness) and I’ve not seen nastiness to the degree I see in men’s rooms. I’m inclined to see men as being the messier if for no other reason than when we’re drunk, we can stand up and urinate (of course that’s no guarantee the urine will go where it’s *supposed* to go).
[from the link you provided @478]:
In a society of compulsive airbrushing, saturated with images of impossible perfection, the notion of embracing a more natural – a more realistic – image of ourselves may seem instinctively appealing to a feminist sensibility.
That airbrushed shit annoys the crap out of me. I hate that a select group of individuals (probably all men) are dictating to millions of people what women “should” look like.
I had a 3 guests sit at my bar a few weeks back-2 men, 1 woman. The woman noticed a male friend of mine sitting at the bar who is nice looking. She initially tried to get me to play the go-between, which I politely decline to do (this isn’t 3rd grade any more). When I advised her to try talking to him herself, her reply was that she didn’t have any makeup on and she didn’t look her best. I told her she looked fine the way she was, and that her ‘non-makeup look’ is probably closer to her real look (as opposed to caked on mascara, eyeshadow, lipstick, etc). She got my point and wound up talking to the guy on her own.
but women are socialized far more than men are to be clean and to consider others.
That’s not an entirely generalizable statement, but in this case it probably works. Of course, this may reflect my personal upbringing moreso than anything else, given the rather unique (for an American) socialization I experienced.
Tony... therefore Godsays
PTI:
(Sometimes I wonder if she’d done that shit if my brother had been the one wearing the shirt).
Too many women are still expected to “find a nice man to settle down with and become a human incubator”. Gosh, it must be upsetting to proponents of that crap that some women might want to choose another path to take in life-i.e. of *their* choosing.
Tony... therefore Godsays
birgerjohanssen:
how about THUNDERWIND?
Given all the toxic air he’s spewing, perhaps you don’t want to stand downwind…the smell may get thunderous.
What I really don’t like are the calls of “why was blogger X allowed to join”, it’s called Freethoughtblogs, remember, all kinds of opinions and viewpoints should be allowed to be presented here, we can always disagree and criticize away, we’re not paying customers who might have some kind of right to an expectation of having only certain opinions voiced and expressed, and it’s Ed’s and PZ’s joint in the end.
Oh, sure. They should definitely invite some “scientific” racists, homophobes, antisemites, a handful of Holocaust deniers, a few more sexists and corporate tools like Penn Jillette, Pat Condell, some fascists,…, and maybe re-extend their invitation to Abbie Smith. A celebration of freethought, where people championing the status quo are given a platform and those of us in the groups they hurt can just deal with it. Furthermore, PZ’s said that there’s a committee, which to me implies that they don’t see it as their joint; and frankly, I don’t consider that I can only have valid expectations of people I pay.
You’re speaking from privilege here, and it’s not the first time. I’m fine with no mission statement, and I’m happy that they’ve invited some bloggers I don’t care for andor with whom I often disagree. But I think a basic commitment to decency* and honesty in all forms should be a bare minimum for consideration. In some important respects, this community is less progressive than portions of the freethought world of more than a century ago. There are few here, for example, consistently challenging corporate power and corporate “science” or imperialism (much less from a radical perspective) or fighting for, e.g., animal rights. Instead, we’re often arguing with the rightwing, and the community is skewed in that direction. It’s OK with me that they’re basically for the most part liberal blogs, but don’t think for a moment that this site or its larger network encompass the full range of freethought today.
*And yes, that does include not being hostile to feminism, and PZ’s said that their quota for anti-feminists is zero (in theory, at least).
chigau (違う)says
Chunderwind?
Tony... therefore Godsays
A.R.:
That’s not an entirely generalizable statement, but in this case it probably works. Of course, this may reflect my personal upbringing moreso than anything else, given the rather unique (for an American) socialization I experienced.
Women= cooking, cleaning, baby making may not be as widely embraced as it once was, but there are still many people (at least in the US) that think this is precisely their “job”.
Tony... therefore Godsays
SC:
but don’t think for a moment that this site or its larger network encompass the full range of freethought today.
Do you have some recommendations for other freethought sites? I’m rather curious to see the broader range of freethought you speak of.
This is not “my” network. Ed Brayton has the special responsibility of managing finances, but otherwise, it really is a community of equals…which is why I say there is no procedure for kicking anyone out, nor do I want one. I also have no greater power than anyone else here.
We have a committee that evaluates prospective bloggers that everyone can nominate. We also have a document that allows us to tally up the pluses and minuses of various candidates. It kind of bubbles there until someone gets particularly enthusiastic about a blogger and then invitations go out.
Holy shit, Tony. You are an awesome bloke, with amazing strength of character and the strength and generosity to enable your father to put right something he had got wrong (and then later give him a momentous Father’s Day present too). Thank you for telling us that (erm, I seem to have got something in my eye for a moment there). Your parents should be so proud of you.
Thanks for that, Tony.
I always had trouble telling my father I loved him and he had a similar problem telling me about his love for me. Fortunately, the last time I talked with my father we were able to say “I love you” to each other. I’m glad that happened.
Some culture, folks :
Fire In Cairo (Live Acoustic 1993)
Good night.
Oh, wait, got another one :
Friday I’m In Love – The Cure – Live (1992)
Good night.
Up again to feed kittens. So…. sleepy….. x_x I’ve managed to reach the point where being awake is literally painful.
So I tune back in to find the Justin Griffith post in the “Most Active.” Like being punched in the stomach. And then in the comments thread he keeps thanking Josh for educating him and demanding he be allowed a “learning curve.” I don’t think anyone’s ever denied him the time it takes some people to understand, but if you recognize that you’re still learning and that this is a situation in which people are being harmed, you should damn well shut the hell up publicly until you’re confident you know what you’re talking about. Maybe ask people you respect and trust some questions or for some reading suggestions. Maybe do some investigation of your own. But instead you thought it wise to throw in with that post, with no concern for the effects it would have. You haven’t fallen on your sword or anything so ridiculously dramatic; you’ve simply, like many others before you in this, done something stupid and callous.
I have read your blog from time to time in the past,* Justin, but I won’t now. I won’t even comment on that thread, as it’s become another Slimepit outpost. I hope you’ll come to regret that post and make things right.
*And I’m one of those scary anarchists about whom you seem so ignorant.
Fucking fuck of a fucky smeg!
Now my old computer is acting up as well, and I can’t find the damn receipt for the new one so I can take it for a checkup.
Damn this messy house of mine!
Yes, that would have been helpful. Too late now. It’s the slimepit of FtB already.
…What the heck are they doing? Any time a blogger gives them an inch, they move in so they can use that blogger’s cover to start attacking with insults and lies? None of them even thanked Justin except as a backhanded attack on the rest of FTB that *does* call them out. And what’s with the insistence that links to the Slimepit be provided? It sounds like they’re hoping toxic speech gets requoted so it gets more attention.
I don’t remember; are we alright with “butthurt”?
I associate with spankings, but someone called it out as homophobic at some point, I think.
Is there any agreement on “-tard” too? “Retard” or “bastard”?
On the subject of naming the Darkfetus, I’d go with “Ness of”.
Srsly?
I’m not sure of the etiquette here. To post the following seems a little presumptuous, but to post it on my blog and just put a link here seems like blogwhoring. This was inspired by the community here and I guess I’d rather the former infraction rather than the latter so:
Robot Lion Mouse: a cheerleading tale.
My daughter has a fear, a boogie-monster of epic proportions. She can be quite serious about it, insisting that someone stay with her while she’s on the toilet for instance because the Robot Lion Mouse will get her if they don’t.
I tell her that I’m not afraid of the Robot Lion Mouse because I’m bigger than it, stronger than it, smarter than it. To which she replies, “No you’re not.”
“It’s so big that it can touch the sun.”
“It’s so strong that it can lift the whole house.”
“It’s so smart that it can….”
And here she failed to find a metric, she’s only four after all. I declined to offer one despite that being my normal role in such situations.
It occurs to me that we all have Robot Lion Mice in our lives. Things that no matter what angle we choose to view them from, they’re always greater than we are. This is not fantasy, not mythology, it’s fact.
The pervasive tacit sexism in my culture is one such thing. When I used to think about it objectively I despaired. How could one person, so small, so powerless, prevail against a monolithic problem that has no clear source, no head that can be struck off with a clean, final blow. The sword stroke fantasies I had as a younger man turned on me as I grew in years and knowledge; the passing of that hope of heroism left me more despairing than before.
But the putting down of the useless sword freed my hands for other tools. The spyglass has been the harbinger of hope. You see, that monolith is only such in its entirely. The gore-dripping monster is a pixelated confabulation. It’s made up of the actions of individuals. Individuals just like myself, just like you.
One need not fight the whole thing, and therein lies its downfall. One interaction at time, one misogynist slur confronted rather than ignored, one lack of privilege recognised and addressed, one voice heard and not dismissed, these are the tiny chips that we can cut out of the monster. Enough chips fallen where they may and it will no longer be able to stand. And if that happens…when that happens, we bury it and build a garden where it lay, for there will be no lack of fertiliser to sprout our seeds.
My daughter is wrong, we need not fear the Robot Lion Mouse because with community, commitment and courage we are monster-killers.
I’m gay, and I’m the one that said it, and I’ve never thought of it as homophobic. However, if someone thinks so I’d like to hear why. I’m not opposed to not using it.
I don’t see “bastard” much anymore, and its original social context as far as illegitimacy is pretty obsolete.
“Retard”, on the other hand, I’m pretty sure everyone here agrees not to use.
Well… you all wake up before me, so I miss a lot of this. But hello.
Well said, FossilFishy. (lyrically said, too!)
Audley, good for you.
Josh:
Exactly.
I realize that not everybody is in an economic position to do this, but if people in general stopped reflexively genuflecting before the altar of Teh Famblee™, they’d be a lot happier. A chronically and irredeemably toxic relationship with a relative is worse than not having a relationship with them at all.
Sure, sometimes there are misunderstandings that can be cleared up with good faith and strong communication. And sometimes there’s a happy ending, as with Tony’s relationship with his dad. But life isn’t like the movies. Some people aren’t diamonds in the rough; they’re just jerks. If your mother has always treated you like shit, the odds are that she’s not going to have a deathbed realization of this.
Also, the veneration of blood ties above all else (except maybe “god and country”) is a hallmark of a society with no justice for the weak.
Beatrice:
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
I left a comment over there a little while ago. I considered addressing the slimepitters, just for the sake of the lurkers, but… fuck it. I could spend that time masturbating instead, you know? And it’s not like the lurkers don’t have plenty of food for thought already, thanks to all the smart and decent people who engaged the bottom feeders.
Speaking of masturbating, I have no idea of the validity of this study (or the reportage thereon), but I couldn’t stop laughing at the Jezebel headline.
Seriously, I had a convo on Justin’s thread that basically went like this.
BarfSimpson: RahXephon, a-bloo a-bloo-bloo!
Me: Uh, what?
BarfSimpson: Yur so stoopid! *fart noises*
This is getting pretty goddamn sad.
Occupy London throws gay men under the bus.
The commenters note that the cruising mainly takes place in a particular area and only at night, so it poses no nuisance to the general public at all. Also, it appears to break no laws in the UK.
My dear friend Keori, a veteran activist, writes,
keenacat:
Oh, thank you!
The support I get around here is awesome– I appreciate you guys so much!
Tony,
Wow. Wow. What you (and your father) did is awesome (and left me with a tear in my eye).
There’s always been a certain level of criticism of me– but until now it’s been stuff that I’ve been able to brush off easily and as an adult I’ve realized that that’s how she relates to me and it’s not worth being upset about. I mean, who cares that she doesn’t like the color I painted the bedroom?
But this… this is way more of a personal attack than her criticisms have ever been. She has never mentioned my size, my diet, my skin care, my level of exercise, etc before I became pregnant.
[TL;DR below: Yes, my sister “knows” how to “be” pregnant better than I do.] If my sister was a dude, she would be a gold medal holding mansplainer. She knows best about everything, no matter what the subject matter is. For instance (warning: pregnancy details), I started feeling DarkFetus move at just over 18 weeks. I was excited, so I told her and she replied with “Are you sure? Most women don’t feel movement until 22 to 25 weeks.” Not only is it frustrating that she doubts every fucking thing that I say, but she was dead wrong. I tried to explain that
1) how early you feel movement has a lot to do with where the placenta is,
2) my doctor was actually a little surprised (but not worried) that I hadn’t felt anything at 16 weeks, and
3) if movement isn’t felt by 20 weeks, there is some cause for concern.
She told me that my information was wrong and I would know it when I actually felt DF move! Do I need to say it again? She has never been pregnant, but she still thinks that she knows better than I (and my doctor and my pregnancy book) do.
Anyway. End rant.
The thing is, I really need this behavior of hers to stop now before it permanently damages our relationship. If things are going to get worse between us, I’d at the very least like to have my feelings known beforehand and I feel that a face-to-face discussion is the best way to achieve that. Part of the problem is that currently she doesn’t know how frustrated and hurt I am because I’ve been scared of rocking the boat, so I haven’t even hinted at how I feel.
However, if she’s going to continue to be an asshole even after I tell her exactly how I feel, then I will write her a letter after the DF is born.
(On the gift card thing: I’m right there with you for the most part with a few small exceptions– my FiL ♥s getting gift cards from the local golf pro-shop, so we usually get him a small gift card and a bottle of nice gin (his favorite at the moment is Tanqueray 10). I also will sometimes use a gift card to supplement another gift– for my younger sister’s birthday this year, I bought her a couple of cute tops from H&M and a small gift card so she could buy shorts or a skirt to go with them.)
I’m not familiar with that expression.
Being from a part of the world not given to droughts, I take it to mean something along the lines of “as significant as a fingerprint in a bucket of water”, i.e. not at all.
I suspect it’s the opposite, having just googled it. I knew water was fucking valuable, and going to become moreso, but I hadn’t realized it was becoming better recognized.
Rutee, you are correct.
Damn, keori’s right.
As one of those straight cis able-bodied white boys, I haven’t found any fault with the Occupy movement because of my privilege blindness.
Thanks for the different light.
Ms. Daisy:
I realize that not everybody is in an economic position to do this, but if people in general stopped reflexively genuflecting before the altar of Teh Famblee™, they’d be a lot happier.
I’ve thought about this before and agree with you.
Taken a step further, where is it written that one must “love they family”? If you have relatives that consistently act like vile assholes or are generally unpleasant to be around, you’re not required to love them.
2 examples:
One of my friends, T, has described her relationship with her mother as being absolutely horrible from childhood through adulthood. The amount of abuse she’s put up with from her mother–abuse that has manifested multiple times in multiple ways–has soured her feelings about her so much that T literally has nothing nice to say about her.
Another friend, E, had a deadbeat dad who abandoned his family while E was just a few years old. He made virtually no attempt at communication for well over 25 years. Within the past 2 years, he has shown up to E’s workplace, and pulled the family card because he needed money (which my friend did not supply). He wasn’t there to see how his son was doing. Nor was he there to even patronize the establishment. He came to ask for money, based solely on the fact that he is E’s father. What arrogance!
{Btw, how did you get the trademark symbol in there?]
~~
Dear FSM:
What is the deal with all the Tone Trolls haunting FtB? Everywhere I go, I keep seeing them. They’re those boogers stuck in your nose that you can’t get out, no matter how hard you try.
PZ, don’t you mean “CCCXLI”?
you’ve done it again…
Daisy:
This is it, exactly. I think that part of the problem for many of us (and I’m definitely thinking of people like me– from a stable home environment with no abuse, etc) is that we are taught that we owe our family something ‘cos they were good to us growing up, despite the fact that we may be related to assholes.
The other thing that really bugs me is this push to forgive family members– yes sometimes it can be a good thing, but sometimes you just need to get them the hell out of your life.
In other news: apparently the body butter is not compatible with the touch screen on my phone. :-/
FossilFishy:
To post the following seems a little presumptuous, but to post it on my blog and just put a link here seems like blogwhoring
I don’t think you’re presumptuous (elsewhere, perhaps it might be bad form; here at TET, not at all) and your comment is perfectly at home here.
Especially given that this-
One need not fight the whole thing, and therein lies its downfall. One interaction at time, one misogynist slur confronted rather than ignored, one lack of privilege recognised and addressed, one voice heard and not dismissed, these are the tiny chips that we can cut out of the monster. Enough chips fallen where they may and it will no longer be able to stand. And if that happens…when that happens, we bury it and build a garden where it lay, for there will be no lack of fertiliser to sprout our seeds.
-is an ongoing battle and the Atheist/Skeptical community is no more immune to it than other groups.
Indeed. For instance, I’m often worried by the way that mainstream left-wing movements made up of mainly white people tend to completely ignore the racialized oppression faced by undocumented immigrants, asylum-seekers, and other people who are marginalized because of nationality, ethnicity and immigration status. From what I know of Occupy, there are some privileged assholes who participate – I’ve even heard about open racism and anti-immigrant bullshit being spouted by some people involved with local Occupy groups.
(But it probably varies by locality. I haven’t been involved with Occupy itself, so I can’t speak from experience here, but when I was involved in immigrants’ rights activism in Boston I did run across a movement called Ocupemos El Barrio, which focuses on immigrants’ rights issues.)
Thunk, no problem. This is a perennial issue in activist groups — as is the concern trolling about oppressed participants being “too militant” and “distracting from the important issue” and how they as “ideological purists” are “alienating” all their “allies.”
Such trolls regularly harp on how this destroyed the left in the 1960s. They seldom mention how, over the last 30-odd years, Nice Polite Middle-Class Liberals tried to be Understanding and Open-Minded and Generous to the right wing. The exception to that trend was ACT-UP, and I’m convinced it’s a big reason that there has been more progress on the GLBT front than on any other.
The tone trolls also never seem to question whether the privileged people in activist movements aren’t the ones actually being divisive, since they’re driving away the people who do a great deal of the work while getting little recognition for it and even less response to their particular issues.
If you google “Occupy” with “racism” or “sexism” or the like, you can find a lot more, although you’ll have to filter out disinformation from right-wingers who ignore the beam in their own eye.
To be fair, it’s not just the dudes who have blind spots. This bullshit went down at Slutwalk last year. Racialicious also has a number of good posts about Occupy racefail; this one is pretty thorough. (Note also this link in comments.)
Sasha Wiley wrote a good essay this May about misogyny in the movement. TW for stalking. She originally posted it to Facebook, and the stalker alluded to showed up in the comments under his real name and proceeded to demonstrate his creepitude amply.
Tony, tone trolls are everywhere. FtB isn’t any exception.
Audley, I agree about the pressure to forgive ill treatment at the hands of relatives. I suspect a correlation between believing that such pressure is valid and defending social injustices…. the valuing of “order” and “peace” over right and wrong.
FossilFishy:
As I think more about your comment @13, I am in awe of your eloquence. I kept picturing a speech like that being delivered in front of Congress or the UN.
Walton, some Occupy groups do try to reach out to the marginalized. The second link in my reply to Thunk lists some. Even Occupy Boston, with which Keori was involved, has made a point of trying to be a genuine ally to local Native American groups, e.g. joining them to mourn on Thanksgiving Day.
That said, there are nowhere near enough people in Occupy who bother to consider those with fewer privileged than themselves.
To all:
The kind words are very much appreciated.
Oh yes – and I’ve stood alongside Occupy activists at immigrants’ rights rallies (although I haven’t been involved directly with Occupy myself). And as I said, Ocupemos El Barrio does exist (I gather that there’s a chapter in San Diego as well as in Boston), and I’ve met Occupy activists who were working for immigrants’ rights.
I learned a lot, when I was in Boston, from meeting activists from community organizations like Centro Presente and the Student Immigrant Movement, which are doing inspiring work.
thunk…think.
Do you really think that after three hundred and forty subthreads that nobody has ever questioned the 4-Xes-in-a-row thing?
It dates back to here. It’s not ‘wrong’: turns out the Romans did it both ways. Teh ECO does it on purpose because he likes the look of the 4 Xes. and is a poopyhead.
ARRGGHHHH!
So Iamcuriousblue on Justin Griffith’s thread is all like “I don’t even why you’re mad, all personal attack stuff I’ve said repeatedly just switch to ‘your behavior is’ but I’m not actually going to apologize for it”. It’s not like that counts as a personal bias he has to address, oh no, can’t we just handwave his bad behavior? It’s not like said nasty behavior is short-circuiting this entirely reasonable conversation he claims to want to have.
I guess I’m just being hysterical.
*breaks things*
As Rutee said. See here.
***
Well, the person who’s written most at length and intelligently about such terms is banned from the Thread, so you might not get much of a response. You might want to ask at TZT.
Sometimes I’m ashamed of my country.
The UK Border Agency wants to deport him to Afghanistan. AFGHANISTAN. They really think it’s morally acceptable to forcibly remove an 18-year-old kid to one of the poorest and most dangerous countries in the world.
And why? Because, by the accident of birth, he was born on one part of the Earth’s surface rather than another, and has an Afghan passport rather than a British one. This is the cruelty and horror of immigration control.
After reading the clusterfuck that is Justin’s (Not Justine.) slimepit post, I do have one self centered question.
Seeing the kind of warped obsession that was shown for SallyStrange; parasite welfare recipient and purveyor of rape jokes and rape fantasies; *eyeroll and facepalm*: I have to wonder is this something that all the regulars have? If I went to the slimepit and to Pharwrongula (I do not give two shits if I spelled that correctly.) would I find a straw woman version of me.
Sorry, I have no desire to visit those sites. But anyone who does already check them out, am I one of the targets?
Just curious.
And I am sorry that I will not check for myself.
@Sili, no, not really. General rule: if I post something that looks weird, stick a smiley on it and if it makes more sense, that was probably the intent. :)
—
Audley ZD: “she didn’t speak to me for damned near a month”
That’s … interesting. Maybe ask “why the self-imposed exile and subsequent weird behaviour”? /armchairpsychiatrist
You know, just because he was told not to post in this thread doesn’t mean you can’t even say his name. He’s not Voldemort.
Emburii, don’t expect to get anywhere with Iammendaciousblue. His background is that he’s one of those menz who whine piteously at the slightest feminist critique of porn or the male gaze. Total asshole long before Elevatorgate.
RahXephon:
*snork*
@Janine
none that I’ve seen. SallyStrange just happened to be a particularly easy target for them because of quotemining.
RahXephon and Ms. Daisy Cutter, you must remember, this is the intellectually dishonest kumbaya thread.
Thank you, julian.
You know, I wasn’t consciously avoiding using his name.
I’m remembering why this thread – that would be, by name, TET – is a waste of time.
No, Janine, I haven’t seen much if anything about you over there. Sally is part of pitizen lore because their favorite game is hypocrisy-gotcha and they regularly quotemine Sally’s ‘funny rape-joke’ comment as an example of how embarrassingly hypocritical all of the FTB commenters/bloggers/strawpeople/PZ-lovers are. The only other commenters that get named very regularly over there are Caine and Nerd and Josh. AE becuse he’s confronted them directly there a couple times. Aratina Cage, ditto. That’s about it. Their everyday targets continue to be Myers, Watson, Ophelia Benson, Justin Canuck-guy, Stephanie Zvan, Laden, and Jen McCreight. mostly.
I’m sorry, SC. Bad assumption on my part.
For what it’s worth, I took your advice and posted on TZT.
BuzzFeed’s Rosie Gray reported this week:
Journalist Steve Benen goes on to comment:
Thank you, Chas.
Janine @44:
I still don’t understand what the opposition to TET’s remodeling is all about.
Ms. Daisy Cutter, I’m noticing that. His total lack of self-awareness really isn’t worth addressing anymore, even for me. And I actually tried to be reasonable with that Phil G ERVite, though I wonder if he would have ever answered the challenge.
A follow up to my post at #49. Here’s an excerpt from one of Rabbi Waskow’s emails to Bill Donohue (after Donohue had told the Rabbi he was sticking his nose in where it didn’t belong.)
Thanks. No problem.
(By the way, the vast, and I mean vast, majority of fantasy/sci fi references sail right over my head. Haven’t read the books, haven’t seen the movies, don’t know the names.)
I suspected as much.
I guess it raises awareness, but fact is most of us shit in water.
Walton @38: In the US, a person married to a citizen automatically gets right to stay in the country (though there are still gotchas, including a time limit on filling out the paperwork to prove you’ve been married). Is that also true in the UK? And did the border agency deliberately stop the marriage in order to be able to deport Aziz?
Lynna:
Zing!
Oh, well, Voldemort is the Big Bad of Harry Potter, frequently referred to as “He Who Must Not Be Named” by the wizarding public because he was so terri-bad that people thought saying his name would make him return.
Hence why I was riffing off that when I thought you were intentionally not saying SG’s name, which you weren’t.
I gave up my relatives 25 years ago. But I hung on to my sister.
For me, it was easy to dump my relatives, I felt few ties to them and they only made me feel like shit. I saved up $400, had a promotion with the company I’d been working near San Francisco (my job was in San Leandro) and moved. I was ridiculously naive about moving but it worked out.
But I’m a lesbian and I’m terribly used to my family cornering me to give me gawd’s word. I’m very used to having to get out of my family’s faces so they can continue their inertia.
When I first started a Facebook account all my terribly boring and mocking cousins wanted to be friended, of course. And I friended them. And they continued the behavior of our childhood. “You’re an angry dyke!”
I don’t need that in my life. My actual family means nothing more to me than the babushka I helped buy groceries today. Probably less, since babushka has never called me an angry dyke after I gave her rubles.
My sister now calls me an angry dyke because I’m asking her to somewhat make an effort to repay the thousands I gave her.
Criminy, I’ve spent most of my life bettering
Voldemort is the Big Bad of Harry Potter, frequently referred to as “He Who Must Not Be Named” by the wizarding public because he was so terri-bad that people thought saying his name would make him return.
In the 7th book, it turns out that saying his name really does make his followers able to find you. Given that Rowlings spent a lot of time in the first 6 books trying to establish that not calling Voldemort by name was just freaking people out for no good reason and causing a “the terrorists have won” situation (i.e. people changing their behavior to suit Voldemort), not sure what that revelation is supposed to mean…Rowlings decided that restricting one’s vocabulary is ok after all?
I stopped reading after the sixth book, so I never saw that. I’ve been put off a bit by Rowling since the whole “Dumbledore’s gay but I wasn’t gonna ever put that in the books” thing. Making your characters gay, but only in your head, is not a brave bit of activism.
Also, and this may be Harry Potter Heresy, but I never thought Voldemort was all that good of a villain. I never felt his motivations were explained very well, other than him being an egomaniac.
Yeah, love leaves scars. Even family that loves you and you love back can make you hurt — there are things people can say to me that make me cringe like a whipped dog deep down inside (although, of course, I can never let it show), and people you care about can be extremely effective in causing pain even when they don’t intend to, and especially when they mean to. And I don’t doubt that I’ve unintentionally caused hurt to the people I care most about.
Krasnaya Koshka, sad how many LGBT people have to create their own families.
At least you did.
I never understood the adults who read the Potter series.
(Speaking as a middle aged grump.)
But the trope of “he who must not be named” is very old. It hardly originated with Potter.
Well, in my understanding of US immigration law, the US citizen spouse has to file an I-130 petition, which has to be approved by US Citizenship and Immigration Services. After that, the non-citizen spouse can apply for “adjustment of status” to become a lawful permanent resident. Unfortunately, some people are ineligible for adjustment of status – for instance, because they entered the US without inspection, or have been unlawfully present for more than a certain period – so there are undocumented people who are married to US citizens but nonetheless can’t get green cards.
In the UK, the spouse or civil partner of a British citizen, or of a foreign national permanently settled in the UK, can apply for a visa (if they’re outside the UK) or for an extension of stay (if they’re already in the UK). But it’s not automatic – they have to meet a number of requirements, including showing that the couple can support themselves without recourse to public funds, and that the non-citizen spouse or partner has sufficient competence in the English language. (See the UKBA website for more information. In most cases, the non-citizen spouse or partner is initially allowed to stay for a probationary period of 2 years; if the couple are still married or civil-partnered at the end of the 2-year period, the non-citizen spouse or partner can apply to settle in the UK permanently. (There’s also a special concession for victims of domestic violence, who are allowed to stay if the relationship broke down during the probationary period because of violence by their spouse or partner.)
Iammendaciousblue just made it under Justin’s portcullis to scream about when what I said was light-years milder than anything those scum-sucking bottom feeders said.
He also whined,
Perfect example of the concern trolling I talked about up there at #30 in this thread. (Oh, and none of them ever seem to mention that law enforcement agency infiltration played a huge role in that splintering — and that people who were sick of being marginalized in those groups as much as they were in mainstream society made for very weak links in the chain.)
I’m not sure, given that – per above – being married to a British citizen wouldn’t have automatically conferred the right to stay in any case. But his having family ties in this country does mean that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights may be implicated. Apparently his case is now going to judicial review, so hopefully he’ll win in court.
I’ve been put off a bit by Rowling since the whole “Dumbledore’s gay but I wasn’t gonna ever put that in the books” thing. Making your characters gay, but only in your head, is not a brave bit of activism.
Hmm…I see your point, but don’t entirely agree. I felt that it was pretty clear what was going on with Dumbledore and what’s his name (the last generation’s villain) within the context of the books as written. Not much was overtly said about Dumbledore’s sexuality because it’s from the point of view of a bunch of kids who probably don’t realize that older people have sexuality. I would have liked to see more homosexual couples among the students-there seemed to be a lot of compulsory heterosexuality at Hogwarts, but the Dumbledore characterization per se didn’t particularly put me off. It’s absolutely not brave activism, though.
I never thought Voldemort was all that good of a villain. I never felt his motivations were explained very well, other than him being an egomaniac.
I liked Voldemort as a villain _because_ his only motivation was egomania. Egomania is the most common reason for real life villainy (IMHO), so why shouldn’t it be in fiction as well? What I didn’t feel was well justified was his success: why would people follow him? After he got power, I suppose, it was to get close to power, but why did anyone ever listen to him?
Hey, PZ: [points upward] “Gynocracy” the MRA troll is back.
I never understood the adults who read the Potter series.
Because some of us find it a fun way to waste time and brain cells.
Apparently his case is now going to judicial review, so hopefully he’ll win in court.
One hopes. Keep us posted?
It was so good of you to share that little turd nugget, gynocracy. Is PZ also to blame for you being a shitstain?
What a weak willed little pissant.
I will. I only learned about the case today via the National Coalition of Anti-Deportation Campaigns; they have a number of pages on their website about people currently fighting deportation. I’m hoping to get involved with them, or with the Campaign to Close Campsfield, which campaigns against immigration detention.
I found Dumbledore’s homosexuality troubling because:
a) what RahXephon said
b) You have one gay man in the whole series. And that one single gay man was in love with a genocidal maniac, to the point where he sort of a bit planned world domination with him (and there was also that Arianna business).
c) He’s also a “safe” gay man. He’s a doddering old fool (when he’s not being a manipulative jerk), someone who you can’t really imagine having icky gay sex. Except maybe with Grindesomething (who’s a genocidal maniac).
d) Remus was totally gay. That’s why she married him to Tonks
Grindelwald, I think was his name. As far as that, I read those books in my pre-teen/teen years, and even as a gay kid with an accelerated reading ability, the only way I interpreted it was that while Dumbledore and Grindelwald ended up enemies, Dumbledore felt wistful about losing a close friend “to the Dark Side” or whatever they call it in the Potterverse, not that they were together.
I don’t think that speaks to my reading ability (not that that’s what you were getting at, sorry), but to how vaguely it was written.
I guess to me, just because it’s realistic doesn’t make it compelling. “I’m evil because evil is fun” or “I’m evil because I’m the only important person in the universe” is just not satisfying when I want an explanation for why a character would do something so horrible.
Much like how Jesus goes from precocious child to preachy, woodless carpenter, I think it went like this: “So originally he was Tom Riddle and was mostly normal, and then *mumble mumble* AND NOW HE’S VOLDEMORT! SCARY BOOGITYBOO!”
I didn’t read the books or see any but the first movie, so I can’t comment on Remus Lupin, but I’m familiar enough through “fandom osmosis” with Dumbledore’s character and with how Rowling handled his sexuality to agree with Beatrice’s other points.
@63 Janine:
Yes, I at least did create my own family. You have to, if you’re homo. I know you know.
I moved to San Franisco in 1987 and one half of my friends died within two years, of AIDS. It was such a harsh greeting into homosexuality.
(Most of my friends killed themselves –the most horrific with a shotgun–when they learned they had “an incurable disease”. I have four four friends who wefe diagnosed HIV+ and still live. And thive. They do the AIDS rides.
1987? Damn, that was about the worst time of the crisis. Great timing.
I admit, my conviction about Remus Lupin being gay might have more to do with fanfiction than actual books.
Beatrice, would you believe me if I told you that there was a gay subtext for a Xander and Spike pairing? I can point you to some fanfiction.
Hi pharyngulates. I am a rare commenter, but I really, really itch to ask one question I would like to have answer to, so i use the endless thread in hope for an answer.
The Q – why are gender based insults considerd to be wrong on this site while insults in general are not?
Let me clear one thing, before you start yelling at me and calling me dumbass, cupkake and suggesting showing porcupines up my rectum – my native language is czech. That language has four grammatic genders and many nouns are, in a sense, gender specific – including names of inanimate objects and, of course, most insults. We have only very little “gender neutral” insults (from the top of my head I can remember only two, relatively mild and with very specific use). Even many of the “animal” insults (like you pig, you ass etc.) are gender specific, because for example “osel” (male ass/donkey) is usualy used against men, but “oslice” (female ass/donkey) is not usualy used against women. And “husa” (female geese) is used as insult against women, but “houser” (male geese) is not used as insult for men. Et cetera, I could go on and on.
Even seemingly neutral insults, like “idiot” or “blbec” (dumbass) have to be in many contexts altered due to the gender of the person being insulted, because the language itself is gender specific – verbs are conjugated differently when a woman speaks than when man speaks, adjectives change according to gender of the noun etc.
This said, I really do not connect to the difference between calling a man a dick and awomen a cunt. Not that I advocate use of either of those, especialy as ad hominem fallacy. Not that I use either of those (or other insults) unless very, very extremely upset. But I do not see the difference between calling someone an asshole or one of those previous two words (and again, btw. word asshole has absolutely no aequivalent in czech – it can be translated in biological terms, but not as an insult). Whereas here I get the impression, that calling someone an asshole is perfectly OK, while calling someone dick/cunt is not. It boggles my mind, because taking the gender of someone into account, when insulting them, to me is not the same as insulting them because of their gender (which is wrong and I do not dispute that). My language and therefore my thinking always takes the gender into account – mine as well as that of others.
Is there some cultural context that explains and justifies this perspective and makes this issue in english principially different? Am I missing some cultural/historical/linguistic issue? If so, please show me to some site or some discussion on Pharyngula, or Blaghag, or wherever, where it is explained – i tried google and search site function already, but either nothing pops up, or way too much pops up. So I decided to enter the lion den and ask the question, even when I know I might upset someone.
I’ve come to love Wonkette’s Sunday feature– Sundays With Jamie Kilstein And The Lord: Why Isn’t Adam Carolla Funny?
It sounds all too familiar, but I do like Jaime’s what the fuck is wrong with you people? response to the situation.
I feel the same way when people do evil shit in a make believe god, it’s hard to believe even in books sometimes…
People suck, reason and explanation enough when the writer does it right. (Even sometimes when they don’t…)
Tom Riddle was never normal. There were signs and clearly stuff wrong with him early on. Unless you are just talking about his looks. Remember what he did to Hagrid and his spider for no good reason?
He was incapable to love or care about anything other than himself due to being conceived while his father was under a love potion.
Here is a simplified answer, Charly. Most gender based insults are based on the idea that a woman is of less worth than a man, that being a woman is something that is unfortunate.
To show my stereotyping: Gilderoy Lockhart?
Chas:
Yes, it’s fine. It’s not how i’m used to seeing it though.
Walton:
Oh fuck. Yes… poor kid. “Sorry, you’ filthy immigrant, back to the third world where you belong!”
It’s truly dipshittery.
Koshka: Ouch with the dipshit family. *condolences*
Because having a dick (being male and thus superior) is not considered as bad as having a cunt (being a woman and thus inferior).
The difference is in the supposed superiority and inferiority (and gender roles) that history and culture attribute to people depending on which parts they have (and thus what roles to play).
Word.
It’s really simplified in English. A jackass is a jackass and a donkey is a donkey. There isn’t a specification of gender in the word.
I have no idea what advice to give on this count. But there are plenty of international people and linguists that can hopefully shed some light on this.
I’d be interested on what are you supposed to do with such examples.
Actually, I thought his characterization was inconsistent throughout the series. You first hear of him when Harry gets his diary, and the “Tom Riddle” inside the book does seem pretty normal. Then later on you see him as a teenager and he’s more cold or even a bit sociopathic, and then she pulled out the scene where Dumbledore meets him in the orphanage and he sets a dresser on fire to show how he was “OMG EEEEEEEVIL” even as a small child.
Now, I don’t know why Rowling did that, unless she felt she couldn’t have evil children in her children’s books, and I think she did say the books got more adult as they went along.
It’s been a long time since I’ve watched Buffy, so no subtext comes to mind, but I believe you.
If it’s good, give a link.
JAL, a male donkey is a jack. A female donkey is a jenny.
I don’t remember that part, but to be fair, it is a 7-volume book series comprising about a gajillion words that I read years ago, so I’m bound to forget a few plot points.
I thought that was meant to show that Tom Riddle learned how to fool others and became better at it the older he got.
Beatrice, there was no subtext. Well, except when Xander told Spike that he (Xander) was moist and delicious. This was when Spike was newly chipped.
But there is Xander/Spike fiction. But I am not wading into it. I was being a smartass earlier.
He was using the diary to use Harry to get what he wanted. What was he supposed to do? Say “I murdered your parents and kill animals now go do this for me please?”. Sociopaths are very good at acting or appearing normal and manipulation.
I don’t think it’s inconsistent at all. Just the way the story goes and how it’s told you don’t see what’s going on with him and his followers unless Harry is there or through a past telling. So you see more evil as you go.
o.O
Really?
Nevermind then..
On Xander and Spike:
But the song is kind of offensive. Argh.
This shouldn’t be a matter to laugh about. Sorry.
Oh! Dear!
Ups, it flew right over my head.
I’ve seen people interpret a look between characters as significant subtext, so I figured – what do I know, it could be.
I am just trying to wrap my head around something that makes no intuitive sense to me. It seems (to me), that the influence of someone’s native language has very strong influence on their thinking and this can lead to some serious misunderstandings.
I do believe the cultural/linguistic context of gender specific insults in english might be different from that in czech. I am hoping to learn about this context and therefore improve my knowledge of the language.
Czech is very, very rich language, when it comes to insults, our ancestors vere very inventive in this regard. But I am not aware of any insult being specificaly intended to belittle women just for being women. Not that sexism and mysoginy do not exist here. Not that insults against women are not used in such context – and I destest such use, because it shows the person is immensely stupid (which goes both ways of course).
But, as said, taking someone’s gender into account is necessary even if you want them to pass the marmelade.
So, how many women are now ready to emigrate to the Czech Republic?
@JAL
As I said, I read these books as a kid, and apparently my memory is even foggier than I thought.
Charly,
You don’t use whore as an insult?
Or czech vulgar word for vagina?
I always figured Riddle was a sociopath due to his very high genetic risk (seems like both his maternal and paternal line were quite a ways towards the callous/uncaring/manipulative end of the spectrum) and his severely pathological upbringing – orphanages are bad places, and especially bad for children with the misfortune to spend their first 3-4 years in them. This is fairly well described in the 6th book.
On another note, I hate it when I relate that I’ve been offered an opportunity to speak about something and am all excited about this, and the person to whom I speak manages to respond in a way that conveys that it’s ALL ABOUT THEM. (By saying, verbatim, “Great, you can talk about [MEEEEEE]!”) And then sulks when I respond by looking puzzled and hurt.
I seriously doubt that. It’s far more likely that, like most men (including me until recently) you simply haven’t noticed it. Please try to notice it and please be horrified about it rather than trying really really hard not to see it so you can continue believing it’s not as bad as it probably is. Too many people make that mistake.
No problem.
I hope I didn’t come off too strong or snarky. I saw your #92 after I posted by #95.
@JAL
You’re fine.
I probably shouldn’t have been giving my opinions about a book I barely remember anyway.
@ Charly,
Janine and Momo Elektra have already explained the main point, that most gendered insults are based on/draw their “insult-strength” from framing male=superior and female=inferior.
I just wanted to add that the kinds of insults (in addition to gendered ones) that are not tolerated are all those based on attributes we cannot choose and/or are born with (such as skin colour, sexual orientation, disability, not being neurotypical etc.), as opposed to attributes we actively choose (such as religion, politics). The insults that are generally embraced are those based on things that apply across these congenital divisions (such as arsehole), things that are based on willful ignorance (such as religidiot, liberturd) and well-known or creative composites of things that are harmful or otherwise obnoxious (such as douchehat or shit-for-brains).
… and damn, technically speaking I just misused “congenital” since some of those are/can be hereditary.
Look, I’m from Croatia. We are pretty inventive with our insults.
(Warning : translating multi-worded insults is difficult and often results in weirdness)
It could even be said for some pretty nasty ones that they are not sexist even though they are gendered. With that I mean telling someone “odi u pičku materinu” (to go (back) to their mother’s cunt) and “odi u kurac” (to go (back) to cock). As far as I know, they are used equally and they basically both wish you were never born.
But “pička” (cunt) is used as a separate insult, in more or less the same way its English equivalent is used. There is also “kurva” (whore). Then we have all the insults to the mother of the recipient. And there are some pretty nasty sexist ones there too.
I mean, there are insults where “kurac” (cock) is used in a negative way, but it’s not even comparable to the use of cunt or some other misogynistic ones.
I find it hard to believe that Czechs are so very different from basically the rest of the world.
Charly, the answers that Janine and Momo gave you are correct and sum up the issue here. I’ll add that many gendered insults have to do with attributes that are specifically (culturally) associated with a particular gender: “dick” is about being pushy and assertive, “pussy” is about being weak and cowardly. “Slut,” “whore,” and “dyke” are all words that insult women for getting out of their place by putting them back in that place – telling them that their only value is sexual. “Bitch” is interesting because of its dual meanings – either a woman who is too assertive or a person who is dominated, usually sexually.
I find that is quite easy to do.
Either enough time or enough books and things all meld. For me at least, I know I’ve been ripped by my fellow book nerd because I didn’t remember one detail in one sentences in a series of five books.
Of course, I’m just as bad.
Loved it when I could remember who owned the feral black cat (before it had to go feral ) in King’s Landing and my friend couldn’t. =)
Still haven’t found that damn receipt, but in looking for it I’ve finally cleared out the Big-Box-of-Receipts-And-Other-Important-Stuff-That-I-Haven’t-Had-The-Energy-to-Look-At™, and I’ve vacuumed away most of the bunny-sized dustbunnies.
And I’ve actually made my bed in what feels like the first time in two months.
I hope I can keep this up, because I actually feel far better now than I did when I awoke.
Although, I try to avoid using the word pička anyway, since its sexist use can’t really be separated from it, even when the insult in which it is used is one of the equal-opportunity-bashing pairing.
I save sentient sack of shit for the really repulsive trolls. I did not know until I read the clusterfuck at Justin’s blog that a few of the slimepitter seem to think that being called a sack of shit was a call for a libel lawsuit. I knew about them thinking that telling a person to fuck themselves with a dead animal was rape joke but, well, er… I am not sure what they are thinking.
Also, “bastard” is a mother-based insult, which has roots in sexual control of women. I wouldn’t say directly misogynistic probably, but there’s a link.
Anyway.
We don’t have a problem with being mean or rude around here. There are good reasons for that. Insults that contribute to oppression, though, are not cool here. Those are usually insults that cause “splash damage” to people who are already suffering from systematic oppression by society.
I do that.
But at least I also have photographic evidence showing my OTP engaging in a handjob.
One could say that this a classic example of duckspeak.
Sili, really? Mind if I ask who your OTP are? (Don’t answer if you don’t feel like it, obviously!)
I’d say yes to that. Since men got to sleep around with no shame, just the women they slept with and the children born from it dealt with it.
Plus it’s a death sentence for the women usually to make your husband a cuckold by sleeping with someone else, especially when a child is born in that situation.
There are some people that still do use bastard as an insult to the slutty slutty mother, I’ve heard it enough myself.
But I don’t know if the general usage and thought of just being another way to call someone an asshole is completely divorced from it’s original meaning enough to make it a non-issue.
In general, you can certainly tell when someone is using bastard as sexist insult or just another way to say asshole.
TL;DR: I dunno. I haz confused myself.
Louis’ Advice #187261784:
Never drink a bottle of Jagermeister and 8 Red Bulls.
You’re welcome.
Louis
What size bottle?
(I know I will regret asking this.)
I do this too. I am apparently extremely quick to read queer subtexts into things.
My ships are all destructive and unhealthy. I’ve wondered lately if that’s a problem, since they somewhat follow the patterns of my unhealthy relationships, or if it’s harmless. *shrug* Dunno.
My thought process when I read OTP:
“OPP YEAH YOU KNOW ME”
“wait…that’s wrong. I don’t know you.”
“OHHHHH OTP, wtf is that?”
“OTP I DON’T KNOW THEE”
“wtf is wrong with me?”
*goes to google*
“wait…I know what’s wrong with me, I came to find out what OTP meant…”
I’m guessing in the context of fanfics it means one true pairing and not one true password.
This I humbly submit as evidence being awake for 24hrs is bad and will hope this makes my Broken Brain(tm) submit to sleep finally.
Janine,
750mL.
Louis
I totally do this too.
It really pisses my friend off when I’m shouting at the TV “OMFG did you SEE that look! {Prediction of what to come}” turns out I’m right…
“How did you know?!? Why did you ruin it for me?!? You saw this before you big meanie”
If I’m wrong they just laugh at my weirdness and ask how I come up with such crap ideas.
Oops.
JAL, I got a broken face.
Uh-ha. Uh-ha. Uh-ha. Hooo!
750 mls? The problem is not the mixing of the Jagermeister with the Red Bull. (Why even do this?) It was the amount of alcohol taken in.
How much of that is put in deliberately? I’ve always been wondering how much attention writers pay to fandom, at least when it comes to series.
“Whore” as a general swear word when I hit my thumb with hammer I use, as an insult too – but against men as well as against women, since its meaning in czech shifted in the last century (see further).
Czech vulgar equivalent for vagina as insult – yes, althoug only in very rare instances. I generally avoid using insults, I prefer to stop communicating instead.
But czech vulgar equivalent for penis is just as insulting. And czech vulgar equivalent for promiscuous males. And I use them as well, because when I want to insult someone…
I did not say they do not exist, I said I am not aware of them.
And I said that there is such use of insults in czech. I do not advocate such use. But when I want to insult someone, I have virtualy no “gender neutral” option to, for example, vulgar names for genitalia. Czech simply does not have them. And my thinking does not have them. I can learn them in english, but I cannot get them into my thinking.
For example, even when I know, that “asshole” is gender neutral, in my mind it is masculine simply because czech (biological) translation “řitní otvor” is masculine. I therefore do not intuitively see this as gender neutral insult, even if I know it is such.
If I want to really, really swear at a man, calling him “dick” is the best option (in czech). Calling him an “asshole” is not an option, because that insult does not exist in that language. Calling him some existing gender neutral insult is not an option, because as I said, those are mostly mild and very specific (like “tele” – calf- which is used as insult for people with immature behaviour).
Well, czech words “čurák”, “kokot” and “vocas” (all vulgar names for male genitals) are very insulting words indeed and I do not think they are somehow “less” insulting than “píča” or “kunda”, which are its opposite. I definitively would not recommend to someone using either of those in live conversation, since they are very likely to lead to some serius punching in the face.
As for word “kurva” yes, this is an example where one gender based word is widely used as general swear word and an insult. But it has now virtually nothing to do with either sex nor promiscuity, but as an insult implying lack of character and is used against men and women as well. Its feminine gender is now de facto only grammatical, although it has probably originated as sexist insult now when I think about it, but is not used as such anymore.
This is what I was looking for, because I was not aware of this. If insulting someone with vulgar name for genitalia ever has had the same connotation in Czech, it definitively does not have them now. Calling a man “čůrák” or a woman “píča” means in both cases, that they are pushy and assertive.
I am going to think about it some more. Thanks for the input.
___________
As a side note, we have three rude words for exkrement “hovno”, “sračka” and “bobek”. Each has different grammatical gender – first is neuter, second is feminine, third is masculine. Ain’t that language beautifull?
Thanks, thumbs, but I am being slightly facetious.
But here, have a whole three seconds of explicit backseat action in stupid children’s cartoon.
Janine,
Thanks for telling me! ;-)
My brain is broken, I was getting confused at what the FAIL step was. ;-)
Louis
The makers of Xena and Buffy were very open about them paying attention to the then new gathering of fans on the internet.
Ack.
Come to Rhinebeck. I’ll bring some Gammel Dansk.
I consider mine pretty much rainbows and unicornfarts, but I project far too much of my own kinks into their (nonexistent) sexlives.
The fact that an insult is used against men as well as women is not actually sufficient to make it not a sexist insult. There are sexist words used against men that are used directly to imply that they are womanlike and therefore inferior. (“Bitch” and “pussy” are both commonly used in this way, for instance.)
Charly, all of that would be fine if non Czech speakers were demanding that their sensibilities be catered to in Czech. But you want to know what the fuss is about in the English speaking realm.
Just note, there are people who argue that gendered words like “bitch” and “cunt” have lost their gendered background. They are wrong.
And I need a sample size of more than one when it comes to if Czech insults are gendered or not.
Charly,
Unless I started calling people “analni otvor” (anal opening) or “rectum” (which would be of masculine gender in croatian too), I couldn’t really insult anyone by calling them an asshole in my mother tongue either. But the point of using that word is that both men and women have one, even if the word is gendered in our languages I would for that reason consider that insult not gendered. But it would sound stupid. :)
From this, I gather that you don’t really get what people mean when they say that they are against gendered insults. Using a word against both men and women doesn’t erase its inherent meaning.
Huh? I thought that he was dating Nymphadora Tonks? I could be wrong, it’s a while since I read the books.
Then again, I’ve never read any fanfiction of the sort to which you allude.*
(*I’m too innocent for the internet. I still haven’t recovered from the time Sili told me that there is such a thing as Jeeves/Wooster slashfic. Noooooo.)
Audley, quoting Jamie Kilstein:
Ah, yes, the Overrated White Dude, object of fierce veneration among the privileged and mediocre-minded.
You know which OWD always chaps my hide? Stevie Ray Vaughn. Yes, he was talented, but I got goddamned tired of bringing up the subject of blues in music discussions and having nitwits yell “SRV!!!” like they were yelling “
ROOOON PAAAUUUL!!STEEEVE HOOLLT!!” Vaughn stood on a lot of shoulders that half these nitwits had never even heard of.Cipher:
Well…
Just to expand the point here, the insult used against a woman places her back in her “rightful” place. The insult used against a man is intended to shame because he is like a shameful creature.
He married Tonks, but I think Beatrice was saying that she’s decided he’s gay anyway.
I love my Tonks.
Driving by…
Esme is pregnant.
Esme is pregnant.
How…surprising.
So you haven’t come across the recent deluge of Sherlock/Watson and Thor/Loki stuff?
Word of advice: Stay away from Tumblr.
Actually, that generally not bad advice.
Congrats to the ratty grandmother! Are you gonna put a notice in the paper when the grandratties arrive?
Ms. Daisy Cutter,
*grin*
Caine
Is that OK
I love Tonks. I just don’t see them together.
Signed,
Someone who has read way too much fanfiction
Janine:
At least it took 8 months.
Chigau:
Not really, but it will be dealt with. I’m utterly clueless about a due date, but from what I’ve read, I have about 2 weeks or less before she drops. I think. Jesus.
I tried not to notice how… lopsided that relationship appears to be.
Having read almost no HP fanfiction (the one fanfic I’ve actually gotten through was The Very Secret Diary, which is… very much up my destructive, unhealthy alley – oh yes, and also The Naked Quidditch Match), I think what was being gone for there was Brave Brave Werewolf Remus, being all self-sacrificing and hiding true love because of his bravery, but even then it kinda hurts my heart. If he was gay and just married her anyway, because she was in love with him, it hurts my heart even more :(
Sili:
Rats for sale? Possibly. ;p
Hey! It’s the British™ way!
Presented with absolutely no comment.
Even when genderbending they leave out the strong women.
/facetious.
I have no idea if that makes sense personalityswise. I do remember reading somewhere Naruto described thusly: “It’s like HP but Ron is the hero.”
Janine #154
Um….
Um, Carlie; HELP!
I’m having an air conditioning issue in my house. We have two window units, one in the living room and one in my bedroom, but if we try to run both the circuit breaker to my bedroom and part of the living room keeps tripping. What can I do to stop this?
Move North.
Request for Horde Help—
If you’d rather reply to me by email, it’s spokesgay at gmail (thank you).
My dad just lost his job and my parents are sweating the rent. Dad’s a tech journalist who’s worked online freelance from home for years. His blogging gig just went kaput. If any of you know of an online reporting/blogging, even copy-editing job I might suggest to my family I’d greatly appreciate it. Any networking for some work would be a help. They live paycheck to paycheck and I wanna see him back to work as soon as possible.
Thanks:)
Krasnaya Koshka:
My sister now calls me an angry dyke because I’m asking her to somewhat make an effort to repay the thousands I gave her.
:(
I’m sorry you’re having to go through that shit.
Has anyone in your family ever tried to explain *why* they’ve attached that label to you (so that you can refute whatever their ridiculous reasons are)? Or is it all religious “criticism”?
I moved to San Franisco in 1987 and one half of my friends died within two years, of AIDS. It was such a harsh greeting into homosexuality.(Most of my friends killed themselves –the most horrific with a shotgun–when they learned they had “an incurable disease”. I have four four friends who wefe diagnosed HIV+ and still live. And thive. They do the AIDS rides.
There simply are no words…
I’m terribly sorry.
~~
Janine:
Here is a simplified answer, Charly. Most gender based insults are based on the idea that a woman is of less worth than a man, that being a woman is something that is unfortunate.
Do you, or anyone else know of a site that that’s useful in explaining the nature and/or historical background of gender based insults (not necessarily for Charly, though xe might benefit from it; more as a ‘go to’ link in general for those that might ask that question and need a thorough explanation)?
@137:
Just note, there are people who argue that gendered words like “bitch” and “cunt” have lost their gendered background. They are wrong.
I’m curious what the arguments would be. Both words are so female specific, I don’t understand how one could twist logic to say their gendered background is gone.
~~
Cipher:
Also, “bastard” is a mother-based insult, which has roots in sexual control of women. I wouldn’t say directly misogynistic probably, but there’s a link.
Anyway.
I never knew that about ‘bastard’. Thank you.
~~
JAL:
In general, you can certainly tell when someone is using bastard as sexist insult or just another way to say asshole.
The rare times I’ve used the word in the past, have always been towards men, and even then, it’s been as a substitute for ‘asshole’.
~~
Louis:
Thanks for the advice re: Jager.
Were you having a party and didn’t invite us?
~~
Charly:
Well, czech words “čurák”, “kokot” and “vocas” (all vulgar names for male genitals) are very insulting words indeed and I do not think they are somehow “less” insulting than “píča” or “kunda”, which are its opposite.
The societal oppression of women (at least in the United States, but I have a feeling this is widespread across the planet) by men takes female gender based insults to another level. Men haven’t been systematically oppressed and treated as if they’re inferior, so saying “You’re being a dick”, while still a gender based insult (that shouldn’t be used), it’s a step or two below insulting a woman by calling her a slut.
How familiar are you with sexism and misogyny in your culture? Many times, they are so deeply ingrained into a culture that they become normalized (which is not a good thing). This can result in genuinely nice people being unaware of the impact of gender based insults. For many, upon learning of the misogyny in their culture, gender based insults (as well as insults that are specific to those attributes that we are born with and/or are incapable of being altered) are rightfully condemned.
Does the czech language have homosexual-specific insults (such as faggot or dyke)? Or racial insults?
~~
Caine:
Yah! Esme is pregnant!
Is it true that a litter can produce 5-15 babies?
Janine:
IIRC, Carlie is taking a yearly self imposed week or two away from the computer.
Tony, over the years, we had a number of special little trolls from pockets within England and Australia who have claimed that cunt has lost it gendered meaning, that it is an affectionate insult shared with the lads and how dare we bullying feminists tell them otherwise.
Tony:
I wish I was that excited. I’m rather “oh fuck” right now. The appt. we had for getting her spayed next week is off.
1 to 22. *whimpers*
Caine:
Oops. I [wrongly] assumed this was a good thing (and I just now read your response to chigau).
2 weeks til due date. Oh dear.
I don’t mean to be heartless, but do you know anyone with snakes?
The alternative is a major increase in expense, and at least it’s a kind of euthanasia with a purpose.
I happen to have a pet snake that only and exclusively eats baby rodents.
I wouldn’t feed rats to it though. Besides the fact that I like rats, they may be too big. Plus she’s picky as hell about when she feels like eating (but when she does she’s like a vacuum hose)
I volunteer to be Cruella de Vil and make a pair of gloves with their fur. Seeing that they would not have enough fur to make me a fur coat.
Just because.
Call an electrician. It sounds like using both together draws more current than the circuit can handle, so the circuit breaker trips.
PZ:
No, but I have a friend in Fargo who has a frog which eats pinkies. Even that freaky frog couldn’t manage a whole litter and I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be able to do it.
I did have a chat with our rat vet, she’s willing to help home the pups and the man who runs the local pet store in Bismarck said he’d take as many as we want for sale as pets. I have no doubt we’ll keep a couple – Mister will get seriously attached.
cheap bodge: if plugs permit, run a heavy-duty extension cord from an outlet in a different part of the house (i.e. on a different circuit breaker) and plug one of the A/Cs into that. (The part of the house that does NOT lose power when the first breaker trips must be on a different breaker, so look for an outlet over there someplace.)
—
1d20 baby ratties!
Awesome – pups from good homes, with happy parents, good diets, roaming and playing and handled from birth, make EXCELLENT pets. Much better than the mass-bred feeder rodents crowding most stores. The local rattie grapevine should get buzzing with hand-tamed pups upcoming.
Tony:
Now that I’ve learned a bit more, it looks like I have approximately 7 days (or less). Little monsters don’t show at all until their 3rd week, with gestation lasting 20 to 23 days. Yikes.
In The Meaning of Liff, Douglas Adams offered up “Gastard” as a word to distinguish your garden variety asshole from someone with uncertain parentage.
Caine
How soon after the litter can you get Esme spayed?
Caine, were I closer I’d take the plunge and en-rat Casa SpokesGay. Boy would the cats think that was fun.
I did have a hamster as a kid, but I think if I wanted to have a pet rat in the house, my mom would throw an utter shitfit.
Slightly OT
You know those diseases that usually kill brown people down south rather than “job creators” in the northern hemisphere -malaria, dengue, etc- and consequently don’t get as much research funding? There is finally some good news for one of them.
“Human antibody for dengue virus isolated” http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-06-human-antibody-dengue-virus-isolated.html
RahXephon, I think the ‘rattie’ in this case is a rat terrior dog?
To avoid the Stupid Baby Name Police I suggest you only use “creative” names as middle names.
For instance, Darkfetus could be named [mundane name] + Weatherwax + Dimetrodona + Temnospondylia + Carcharodonia + [surname] and the kids in school would only know about the first and last name.
Caine:
Pac-man frog? I have one of those. Greedy little monstrosity he is… just a mouth and stomach with stubby legs. Though mine has lost all taste for mammals lately and appears to only be interested in eating worms.
Does anybody else click the handles of trolls and look at their blogs, FB profiles, etc. because of masochism or trainwreck syndrome?
Cory Albrecht was concern-trolling Ophelia about how she really really ought to publicly disclose the email she got from JREF. So I looked at his Twitter feed and found this gobsmacking assertion. Uhhhhhhh…. too soon, dude. Too soon.
Then there’s Voltergeist, who is tremendously condescending while spouting shit like this:
Rutee kicked their ass from one end of Zinnia’s blog to the other, not that they probably realized it. Anyway, their Tumblr is one screed after another about meeeaaaannnnnn intooooooleraaaant atheists.
Hooray for pregnant Esme!!!
Chigau:
5 to 6 weeks. The pups wean at 5 weeks, and mum has to be separated from them anyway, before any of the males knock mum up. (This just gets better and better…). Esme and any females will get spayed asap. If there are any females, I’m keeping them.
I have a feeling this is just going to be a clusterfuck – it seems that a pregnant rat won’t bother with the official nesting until the day before or day of birth. I’m prepping the condo now, but I know where Esme will *want* to birth, and that won’t be okay. This is going to require timing and great luck.
Josh:
:D If they’re anything like my cats, they’d quickly learn who is boss (it ain’t the cats) and they’d hate you. Forever.
terrior dog?
A “terror dog” is the critter in Ghostbusters 1 that catches up with a guy outside a restaurant while the guests ignore the ghastly screams from outside the window. It was one of the few episodes in the film that were interesting.
TLC:
Nope. African Pixie frog or something like that. Damn thing is huge (over 10 inches), has teeth and likes to lunge at faces.
How fucking stupid do you have to be to think campaigning to rehabilitate the swastika is a good idea.
Caine: That would have been my second guess.
I’ve always wished there were still Diplocaulus around… I wonder what one of those things would be like in the home terrarium? Or would it have to be an aquarium?
Uh, terrier. Yes. *eats that spare ‘o’*
You saw nothing.
BTW Caine might I also add I’m quite overjoyed to see you again, even if it is just a rat pregnancy announcement drive-by.
TLC, thank you. ♥
@Pteryxx
Your idea seems to have worked! The breaker hasn’t flipped since I got it plugged into a different circuit. Thanks a lot.
Every so ofter, you have to dance under the Marquee Moon.
Look here junior, don’t you be so happy.
And for Heaven’s sake, don’t you be so sad.
And the Typo Monster scampers away, sated.
It would be interesting to watch an insult duel between a czech and a finn…
Caine: Hello and sorta-hooray for the Esme’s pending litter.
I’m not a pet person (realized that soon after getting Cat), though.
Can’t Stop The Rain-The Washington Squares
Have not heard this one in a couple of decades.
Caine: Do you know anything about socializing guinea pigs? my sister has a male, and he hasn’t been responding to the typical techniques (holding 20 min/day etc.) Anyway, I’m happy to see you here again!
Have you tried giving them tiny martinis?
@RahXephon, you’re welcome. Simple idea eh? just be careful not to plug anything else high-load into those circuits while the A/Cs are on them.
The Ron Paul thread is beyond moronic.
Ing: I’m sure they would like gin, with the juniperness and all. And yes, the troll bait thread has gone the way of anything that involves liberturdanism.
Hallo, Thunk. Thanks. :)
A.R:
Nope. However, as always, the search engine of your choice is ever helpful. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=How+to+socialize+guinea+pigs%3F&t=i
What works for one critter may not work for another, so research is always necessary. Read – read everything you can, especially on dedicated forums. It helps. It’s best to keep in mind that not all critters are socializeable.
Caine: Thanks, I’ve found a forum that might be helpful.
The SO got an iPhone.
It knows where it is, to within about five metres.
I am seriously creeped-out.
Ing, what can’t you understand? Just because Ron Paul supports legislation that gives support to bigots and had racist literature published under his name does not mean that he is a bigot.
@Janine
What I can’t understand is why people care about the feelings of such a man.
Ms. Daisy:
Does anybody else click the handles of trolls and look at their blogs, FB profiles, etc. because of masochism or trainwreck syndrome?
Thank you!
I’ve been wondering why some peoples’ nym’s are clickable whilst others’ are not.
~~
I just came across (yeah, I’m late to the party) Ron Paul’s Sanctity of Life Act of 2011. None of it holds up to distant (let alone close) scrutiny, but this bit leaves me scratching my head:
(1) protects the rights of human persons between conception and birth;http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1096
Ron Paul proposes a bill that supposedly treats life as something sacred and special, but only until birth? Is it just me, or shouldn’t a ‘Sanctity of Life’ bill provide protection for *all* human persons from birth to death (following Paul’s wrongheaded ideology)?
~~
Caine:
I echo TLC’s sentiment @189 :)
~~
RahXephon:
No A/C in the summer is quite unpleasant. Glad to know you’ve got it up and running!
So does every smartphone that has Google Maps or uses any other GPS technology.
I ain’t right, part 78343….
Idea: Performing 4’33” in a tuberculosis ward.
Better yet: Performing it in a dysentery ward.
Best of all: This concept as a doctoral thesis at Berklee or Oberlin.
Ing, I do not understand either. Fuck that dried flake of anti-choice bigot.
Oh, shit, an ERVite can now claim that I am making a rape threat.
It’s especially rich since Libertarianism doesn’t value life at all. Your life is literally worth nothing compared to even a single dollar of lost profit
Tony, I’ll also click on the names of people who say something really awesome. But the motivation isn’t the same, y’know?
@Janine
The funniest example of that was over on Butterflys with “SALLY STRANGE FOUND A RAPE JOKE FUNNY!!!!!!”
When the conversation was
Sally: “I only ever found one rape joke funny and that was because it was well crafted and mocked rapists and not victims”
Ing:
Have you tried giving them tiny martinis?
What did you have in mind?
A classic martini?
Cosmopolitan?
Lemon Drop?
Key Lime Pie?
Dreamsicle?
Chocolate?
Thin-mint-ini?
Cucumber min?
I could go on a while. I’ve made a lot of martinis :)
@Tony
I suggest a tiny little open bar. Mixed or straight drinks on request and a nice bowl of sunflower seeds. That should make event he most sternest of Guinea pig crowds socialize
I know, Ing. While I did not comment, I read that thread. Reminded of the reasons why I wrote them off, dishonest little gibbering shitstains.
Ing: Yes, I agree a nice open bar would be quite nice. I wonder how well beer would sell…
Argh, I used nice too many times! I need to stop with the Caol Isla earlier from now on.
Seems like another good time to link to one of my favorite blog posts ever: “A woman walks into a rape, uh, bar” on rape jokes from Fugitivus. For anyone who is ignorant about rape jokes, confused about them, or just hasn’t read it before – it’s one of my favorite blog posts.
And I couldn’t even spell Caol Ila correctly…
Just because it’s in a martini glass doesn’t mean it’s a martini.
Gin and vermouth.
It sells better with rabbits. They know their hops
Caine:
*waves!* Good to see you back! ♥
Good luck with Esme and her soon-to-be litter. If anyone can handle it, I know it’s you. :)
This reminds me of a funny quirk of my mom’s. Our cat Maggie was taken in as a stray. We had no idea if she’d been spayed or if she was pregnant or what. My mother, who is a dyed in the wool feminist and has no problem talking bluntly about any aspect of reproductive choice, recommend that we take Maggie to the vet ASAP and if she was pregnant to “have it taken care of”. I asked Mom if she meant a kitty abortion. “Of course, have it taken care of!” Was how she responded.
My awesome pro-choice mom can’t talk about terminating kitty pregnancies.
XD
They should take it over to TZT and discuss whether or not Ron Paul has free will.
Oh, so now you want socialist guinea pigs? I suppose they’re going to have some kind of single-payer health care plan, too.
Here’s a song by a band that doesn’t exist.
While my phone doesn’t know where it is with that degree of precision, I assume it can be located fairly closely. It’s all academic, though, since it rarely leaves the house. Just because somebody knows where my phone is doesn’t mean they know where I am. Take that, Big Brother! In your face! (not a rape threat)
Socialist guinea pig?
Hey all – I know I’m one of those suspicious ‘newbies’ that make such good chew toys for all you awesome regular types, but I feel I need to pop in and drop some word salad. No good place for it really, I considered TZT but thought that if one of the exiles tried to give me goddist advice I might pop an eyeball and I’m deep enough in poo as it is.
My life has exploded. I’ve been married a couple of years and just had a gorgeous little baby boy (totally delicious) and have only just now come to the realisation that I’ve been in a pretty abusive situation. Pharyngula and the FTB crew opened my eyes to the signs that I wasn’t being treated as I have a right to be, that having affection be conditional on my giving up part of my bodily autonomy is quintessentially wrong, that my husband’s feelings aren’t more important than my mental health and so on.
When you’re bullied to the point of wanting to not exist anymore and then have the fact you’re talking about being suicidal used against you as if you’re trying to manipulate people, you have a big problem. When the family of in-laws (whom you’ve loved and respected) turns on you in an instant, defending their precious boy and spitting poison and blame at you when you’re simply trying to give the facts of the situation and improve things for everyone, you have a bigger problem. When you have your three month old child held hostage by his own father and have him refuse to let you anywhere near him, have him taken away to the in-laws place and are given ultimatums where if you leave the house with the baby then the marriage is over and you have nothing… yeah.
There’s a hell of a lot more to the situation and it’s all terrible. I’m living with my parents right now, who are also a cause of mental difficulties but are the only support I have right now. I have no job, can’t drive due to anxiety issues, have nowhere to live, have no money stored away. My cat and bird are back at my husband’s place and I know the fact they’re being looked after by someone else will be used against me at any opportunity, though I can’t take them to my parents’ place as my mum is a neurotic mess who won’t have animals in the house.
I just can’t see a way clear, and it’s depressing me past the point of return. I have depressive episodes so bad that my body simply stops responding to my brain and I’m unable to consciously control any muscle in my body for a matter of hours. No idea why – it’s as if my brain just blows a fuse to try to mitigate some of the damage.
I’m… well, shattered. The only ray of hope I have is that I know exactly why these things have happened, and I’ve woken up the the situation. I can only boggle at how disgustingly ingrained in our society these sexist and victim-blaming attitudes are, even in the people closest and dearest to us. When things come down to the wire, you see the full extent.
Oh well. Thanks to anyone who reads this, and hello to anyone who skims it due to tl’dr.
It’s not newbies it’s idiots.
I know how you feel. Hang in there.
Ing @215:
I totally have an image of that in mind right now!
Might we also throw some delicious pepitas into the mix as well?
(I absolutely *love* pumpkin seeds/pepitas. As a child, every year for Halloween, we would carve the pumpkin and bake the seeds. I don’t celebrate Halloween as an adult, but I do buy pumpkins around that time. The seeds are for me. The pumpkin is for the dogs. They *love* the treat. I’ve also taken to buying other types of squash throughout the year, to bake their seeds. What sucks is that most of the squash I’ve bought contains a miniscule amount of seeds. Ah well, I buy several and the dogs get fed!)
~~
chigau:
awww, come on. I make a killer Thin Mint-ini, based on the Girl Scout Cookie. It is quite tasty.
I do know what you mean though. In the US, I wonder how many people are even aware how martinis were served back during Prohibition.
Tony:
Mister insists that this ^ is the only martini, full stop. The rest are…something else, but not martinis.
Audley, your mom isn’t alone. As ferociously pro-choice as I am, I get a bit queasy making that decision for another life form*. I did discuss terminating Esme’s pregnancy with our rat doc, but she didn’t recommend it. The problem with performing abortions on animals is that it can tweak them mentally and lead to psychological problems.
*I know, I know. It ain’t rational. I know.
Welcome to TET Sophia.
I hope you find what you need. It looks like you’re taking the first and probably most difficult step towards that.
I’m not very good with advice, but if talking about it here helps you in any way, then by all means, go ahead and talk about it here.
@Sophia Dodds
For what little it’s worth you have my sympathies. I can’t offer much in concrete help but if nothing else, I wanted you to know I admire your courage and wish you the best.
Hello Sophia. I’m so sorry for your situation, but help is out there, it really is. It might take a bit of digging to get to it, but don’t give up. We’re here anytime you need to scream or cry or could use a hug or three. Where are you located?
@229: I don’t see how you’re being irrational. You’re pro-choice and you can’t determine the rat’s will in this situation so you feel uncomfortable making a choice for her.
Dianne:
That’s it exactly. Thanks.
Tony
I think “gin” was redefined for the duration of Prohibition.
Probably “vermouth”, too.
Welcome, Sophia. I’m sorry about your situation but glad that you’re taking steps to get yourself out of it. Feel free to use this space to rant, scream, complain, and vent.
Oh, Sophia. I’m so sorry. *hugs if you want them* That sounds like a terrible situation to be in. You’re not alone. There are people around here who have gone through similar things to some of what you’re experiencing and may be able to offer advice if you want it, and we’re all here to listen.
Sophia:
Hey all – I know I’m one of those suspicious ‘newbies’ that make such good chew toys for all you awesome regular types, but I feel I need to pop in and drop some word salad
The Horde doesn’t munch on people just because they are new. Idiotic, homophobic, misogynistic, racist or other comments are quickly shot down. Not because the person is new, but because the view is moronic at best (Ron Paul for president) or blatantly offensive at worst (victim blaming).
Just dropping in to chat won’t-in and of itself-incur wrath (at least that’s been my limited experience).
What you’re going through is horrible (I didn’t find it TL, btw). You have my sympathies. In addition, I’ve found just being able to talk to others of like mind, or who have gone through similar circumstances can be helpful in and of itself. If you stay, please pull up a chair :)
*hugs* and grog for Sophia and Cipher
Thanks :)
I’m not really looking for sympathy or anything, people go through this sort of crap all the time and much worse. I suppose I just really need -somewhere- to speak up; everyone I could talk to here either doesn’t want to listen, already knows and can’t help or doesn’t need to know.
I’m getting as much help as I can, I’ve got a good psychiatrist, a psychologist and am looking into family counselling so I can at least get a dialogue going. I’m just scared out of my mind right now, so any talking is incredibly difficult to do – especially when I know exactly what the reaction is going to be.
It’s so incredibly ironic seeing parallels in the modes of rigid thinking people employ when their positions are challenged. Take one look in TZT or an MRA comment flurry: “Your telling me about how I’m hurting you is making ME feel bad – you should be ashamed of that! Also, you do minor irritating things to me, so I’m prefectly justified in doing what I do.”
When questioned, the terrible arguments start coming out, like arguing that touching a man’s chest is exactly the same as groping a woman’s breasts. You know they don’t believe it, but they’ll use any argument to maintain the status quo regardless of whether or not it holds up. Ugh.
Gotta love blind privilege :|
Sophia, I’m glad you have some support. Just remember, we’re here and we are all very good when it comes to listening. :)
Hang in there, Sophia. And welcome.
Do not bullshit yourself. Just because other people are going through situlation as bad or worse does not mean that you do not deserve nor need sympathy.
You are seeing professionals, that is a great start. Get hold of a local anti-violence organization (Violence is not just physical.) and try to get an advocate to help you through the system.
Good luck, Sophia. The fact that you are already acting speaks well for you.
And one last thing, just because you are new does not mean that any of the regulars will treat you like a chew toy. I hope you know that now.
Yeah, Thunderf00t was such a great addition to FTB.
What a fucking douchebag.
@Ms Daisy
The Islam issue already made me conclude that.
Janine is right. This is always a hard feeling to get past, but what you are going through is very real and you deserve support. Please feel free to speak up as much as you want to!
@Janine
I suppose it’s the beaten-down me speaking, when you’re made to feel useless and broken and contemptible for so long it’s rather easy to start believing it a bit, and even if you don’t really believe it you tend to act as though you’re walking on eggshells to avoid provoking an antagonistic reaction. Thanks, it’s good to be told sometimes that I don’t need to feel guilty when I feel I’ve been wronged. :)
I do know about the newbie!=auto-chewtoy thing, I suppose I was more referring to the fact I know I can sometimes say extraordinarily silly, privileged things (can’t we all?) and that if I did I expected the requisite Pharynguloid Barrage(tm). It’s a magnificent thing to see in action!
Ing, I agree.
Dear Horde:
Does anyone have a very hot poker I can borrow? Gouging out my eyes will be more enjoyable than reading this shit:
http://www.savewhitepeople.com/The Black on White hate crimes is becoming ever more prevalent in our schools. One cannot send their child to schhol without fear of them being retaliated against simply for being a White child. Wake up parents!! There is a thing called Homeschooling..Where a parent knows their child is safe and has control over their child is being taught.
It boggles my mind that so many people blindly think that homeschooling is such a wonderful thing. While it *can* be in some cases, there are far too many parents who are ill suited for the task of teaching.
@Tony
Well they are sincere!
Sophia: You are more than welcome to come to TZT if you ever feel like bashing trolls, in fact, we have a recycled one who just showed up I will worn you though, TZT can be very surreal at times. Oh, and look at the punctuation in comments about the weather very carefully. Otherwise, I give you hugs and bacon.
La Reine Rouge aura ratlings royales?
I have had surprise!* puppies, and surprise!** kittens. It was a lot of work but it was great fun to be a midwife and to raise the litters. I think it was also a great learning experience for my children. It was an easy way to teach them about sex and reproduction, and they were very involved in caring for and socializing the critters. They also invented some very clever ceiling fan powered kitten toys.
*I try not to be an irresponsible pet owner, the neighbors dog literally destroyed the door to get to my dog while I was at work.
I came home to find two very happy dogs wagging their hardest at me and acting all “OhHI, we know we are being bad but we couldn’t help it. Please don’t be mad” with their postures.
I used to be heavily involved in hunting field trials, and she was a AKC registered yellow Lab who I was intending to breed at some point if she did well. The sire was a Chesapeake Bay Retriever, so I had five really adorable red Labrador puppies. My neighbors took the reddest female as the pick of the litter and named her Scout.
**MY two part siamese female cats were scheduled to be spayed on Thursday. They coincidentally both went into heat on Monday. They managed to escape the house and elude all efforts to be captured for nearly a week. They each had small litters totaling seven kittens of all different colors including ragdolls.
Right. Because there are no actual instances of misogyny, racism or bigotry on the ‘net. Oh no. Also, lumping feminazi in with the rest? :headdesk:
What. An. Idiot.
Odd that we get the dichotomy of Misognyist/Reminazi but not for racist and bigot. Apparently your use of nigger is not a metric of your value!
Thunderf00t has some good videos but he has the self awareness and compassion of Emperor Palpatine.
@Julian
I protest that characterization.
Palpatine was very self ware. He wasn’t bigoted or racist himself but fostered those beliefs for political power AND because it strengthened the Dark Side of the Force.
His oppressive policies were entirely to turn the Empire into a soul engine to fuel his powers
Is it just me, or did a portal to the Slimepit just open in FTB?
@A.R
ZUUL MOTHER FUCKER ZUUL!
Ms. Daisy:
Thanks for that.
I won’t be going to that fucktards site again.
The moment I came across “…sexual harassment is a non-issue…” I shut down. Male privilege anyone?
~~
Sophia:
I do know about the newbie!=auto-chewtoy thing, I suppose I was more referring to the fact I know I can sometimes say extraordinarily silly, privileged things (can’t we all?) and that if I did I expected the requisite Pharynguloid Barrage(tm). It’s a magnificent thing to see in action!
You’re not alone in the foot-in-mouth club. I know I’ve said stupid shit, or offended someone, or been massively wrong about something. A heartfelt admission of wrongdoing or a genuine apology goes a long way. Too many people don’t want to do that.
~~
Ing, Ms. Daisy:
Islam issue?
Tethys, I’m no stranger to pets birthing, litters and all that. I’m sure I’ll go full court squishy when the babes arrive, but for right now it’s a major problem. It will continue to be a problem, too, because I’ll have to keep Esme locked up, which is not going to go over well *at all*, until she can be spayed. (Female rats can get knocked up within 36 hours of birthing.)
It’s going to be a long 7 weeks. Yeesh.
@Tony
Thunderfoot…is not found of people from Persian or Arab regions let’s just say.
As in “run them out on a rail those 911 mosque loving sand nigger” hate
Tony, for far-right homesk00lerz, their children growing up ignorant, sheltered, and unsuited to the “worldly” secular sphere is a feature and not a bug. Seriously, “worldly” is an insult to such people, because they’re supposed to be “in this world but not of it,” focused instead on joining jeeeezussss in hebbun.
Also…. yeah, white supremacist sites. What can I say. I’ve seen prettier things when I’ve turned over a rock in a forest.
A.R, it’s not like they stayed away in droves before Thunderfart came along. For people who hate this site they sure spend a lot of time here.
Wow…
… and thus another discordant voice was added to the cacophony, screaming silent blame at the downtrodden majority as they trudged by, impotent and without voice.
That sentence should have been less pretentious by a factor in the hundreds, and untrue by the same degree. The fact it isn’t scares the living daylights out of me.
Hmmmm, very true. Perhaps I owe the Sith Lord an apology.
Seriously though, why invite thunderf00t? Might as well nab the AmazingAtheist while we’re at it. Soooo many awesome youtubbers. And we get thunderf00t?
Sigh.
Well, I guess we have the token dudebrah now.
chigau, thanks. *hugback*
Re: Thunderf00t,
Oh gross :( Now I’m all upset again.
Tony: In this case it might be a good thing. If all the paranoid bigoted whitey parents take their kids out and ‘homeschool’ them, then the education gap might actually start shrinking!
And I can’t help but think a school where all the children of bigoted white parents have been ‘removed for their own safety’ would be a good learning environment for the rest of the population.
Julian:
We already had JT Eberhard.
Not really it’s perhaps worse that he is knowingly using every other living being in his galaxy as raw materials. IIRC the canon end game for him was to unbalance the force enough that he could act as a vampire, draining away the life of all living things to extend his own life indefinitely.
TLC, it’s not fair to the kids of the bigots. Why should they have their life opportunities severely curtailed because their parents are assholes and fools?
Sophia, you’re welcome here.
Seconding Janine; contact a local domestic abuse resource. They deal with this sort of thing all the time and can help navigate the situation and form a plan. My local shelter network gave me counseling, legal aid, and an advocate came to court with me for moral support.
I suggest calling the National Domestic Violence Hotline: http://www.thehotline.org/ or 1.800.799.7233. They’re willing to listen, too.
—
delayed because my internet sux.
Caine: fyi if you don’t already know, rats can mate through cage bars.
Besides, from what I last heard Prussian Blue rejected Nazism/Racism (due apparently due to the wake up call from their mother trying to BREED THEM).
So occasionally we get great laughing moments like that.
TLC
Are you getting flooded?
… I mean, I don’t think that kids raised by bigots should be allowed to proselytize, harangue, or otherwise disrupt the learning environment for the other kids. But I don’t think their minds should be left entirely to their parents to mold.
Also consider that, in a state with very lax checks on homeschooling, sexual and physical abuse can easily go unreported.
Hi Sophia!
I’m sorry things are so difficult for you. And forget about the “others have all this and more” thoughts, no matter where you heard it. Pain is pain, and degree of difficulty only applies in Olympic diving competitions, or some thing like that.
I’m really glad you’re seeing people who’ll give you the help you want.
–
CAINE! Yay!…reads…potentially 22 rat babbys??!! Oy!
Unfortunately, though Lynx and Lamb got out of that shit, they still have a sister in the middle of it:http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2011/winter/extremists-are-coming-together-in-mon
As far as ThunderD0uche goes, I have no fucking idea what the FTB overlords were thinking when they invited him. He’s a racist piece of shit, and sexist as all hell as well, apparently (not that I’m surprised, these things tend to go together.)
Ultimately, him, as well as a lot of major (straight, cis, white) dude atheist players, have made me decide that I am never, ever getting remotely involved in any kind of atheist/skeptic organization, group or meeting, aside from maybe meeting some of y’all.
Hi youtube hits.
It makes sense to me. I just don’t predict it either lasting long or catching on. I’m personally skeptical of the idea of inviting youtubers to a blog (feels like inviting voice actors to a mime union)
Sophia
Welcome to TET. I am sorry to hear of your relationship sorrows. Leaving abusive relationships is very difficult, feel free to rant or ask for advice or just share.
@Pteryxx
Thankyou. I’m an Aussie and phone-shy, but I definitely appreciate the sentiment. My mental health care people are doing all they can, and since the abuse is emotional rather than overtly physical it’s very difficult to prove anything and since I’m a very passive and forgiving person it’s far too easy for my view of things to be overlooked or disbelieved.
I’ll definitely go to a shelter if it comes to that, but for now my parents are doing all they can to support me. They’re certainly not the best option available, but their hearts are in the right place and they’re at least being unconditionally supportive. (Well, for the most part. Mum’s big on her little rituals, so there are certain things I can’t do. I can live with that until I get my own space.)
The branding of Skeptic Inc has saddened me since I was first made aware of the issue. Mark my words, this started IMO with the decision that Religion was off limits.
I’ve had that trouble in the past. Probably not as bad but I think I know what it feels like to feel that people are abusing your forgiveness or empathy…and for feeling guilty for being mad at someone who has been horrible to you because they’re being “nice” right now.
Miss Daisy Cutter: You got me there. I was just looking for the silver lining, I suppose.
Chigau: No, but we had the mother of all storms yesterday. The entire morning was muggy and semi-sunny. Then all of a sudden a sheet of unbelievable wind ripped through, just like that, like someone had offended a god or something in a movie. And then came thunder and lightning. And then a literal sheet of rain, like, I looked south and could see this white sheet coming at us.
Words do not do it justice really. Wind, rain, ground went from dry to inch-deep puddles and blowing sheets of rain in a few seconds… The Girl was like:
“What’s that word… like… when it’s the end of the world…”
“Apocalyptic?”
“Yeah. That one.”
The Babby only wanted to know what that noise was. So I drew her a crude picture of Thor and told her it was a storm.
Apparently there’s a huge flooding risk in Kelowna though. Someone was tellin me all about it in PET. Kelowna of all fucking places.
But don’t worry, Global Warming is just a myth. ;)
Threadrupt.
–
Last night’s post-Game decision to drive thru Taco Bell has been proven to have been…most unwise.
–
I more got the impression that the reason why the small child Tom Riddle comes off as more OMG EEEEEEEEEVIL than the school-boy and teen Riddle was because, before his meeting with Dumbledore, he felt he was “special” all in and to himself, with no need for dissimulation; but being clever, he picked up on Dumbledore’s slight “check” in reaction to the young Tom’s callousness etc., and figured that he’d better learn to hide those unfavorable traits PDQ, if he was going to get anywhere in this whole, new world of “special” people. At school and young adulthood, he was keeping up a facade; but when he started actively pursuing his goals, he felt no such need. After all, the dark wizards and pure-blood elitests and such (IOW, the stereotypic graduates of Slytherin house, and for that matter, his maternal family) were all ready out there, and in their company he didn’t need to “make nice”. Knockturn Alley, where all the questionable businesses had their addresses, wouldn’t have existed, and neither would those businesses, if there wasn’t already a ready market for their wares/services.
It’s possible that I over-thought this a tad.
–
With some likely cross-pollination from “a bitch in heat”; i.e., slut/whore.
–
*blinkblink*
I am obviously way more naive than I thought.
–
Caine, *pouncehug* and congrats or commiserations on the forthcoming ratlings, whichever applies.
(Later) Make that commiserations. And *booze*.
–
Huzzah!
(I remember reading an article, at some indeterminate-but-probably-less-than-a-year-ago time, that thanks to
Global Climate ChangeMysterious Unknown Reasons, dengue and the like are becoming more widely available, yea, even unto denizens of the First World.)–
Only to 200. *sigh*
julian:
Seriously though, why invite thunderf00t? Might as well nab the AmazingAtheist while we’re at it. Soooo many awesome youtubbers. And we get thunderf00t?
For completely different reasons, I would add Taslima to the ‘what are they doing here?’ list.
Of the various new bloggers at FtB, I love Zinnia Jones’ blog by far.
~~
Ing @261:
Uh, wow.
I wonder if his xenophobia and racism is only directed towards Muslims, or if it extends to other POC…
~~
TLC @266:
On the one hand, it might improve things for the kids left at the school. OTOH, I worry that the homschooled kids would suffer educationally and socially. Plus, who the heck wants to be around their parents *all* the time? Some kids actually enjoy going to school and/or getting some ‘parental unit’ free time.
Pteryxx, already dealt with. Esme will be in the condo, not a standard cage by any means.
AFAIK it’s only Muslims, because 911. It’s the standard alarmism about Islam we see from Skeptics that doesn’t get called out (Hell we basically canonized Hitchens despite being guilty of IMHO many many sins we would condemn in people outside the tribe). It makes me wonder if these people have ever had any direct contact with either Muslims in the West or the Muslim world.
Now I get my view from the Muslim world second hand from a Arab friend who is an archeologist and travels to the region. The culture honestly does not sound all that far off to rural areas in the US. There are stories there that would work just as well if you switch it to “rural New York” from him. Yeah politics and religion are heavily ingrained and weird and often repressive…but there are quite a few Muslims who are either apathetic or really really don’t believe…unless someone from Government is watching upon which they most definitely were at prayer and not at home drinking. Likewise every Muslim I’ve met in the West has been either fine, or horrible for reasons not at all related to Islam. Maybe I’m self selecting but I just meet people around I don’t go seek them out. I hear people talking about horrible it is that Muslims are around because they don’t assimilate or whatever, when I worked with a Muslim who did recreational cross dressing, wore toed shoes, and listened to Lady Gaga. I think we can all agree that we should love a view of Islam that allows that…so why are we discouraging people from interacting with our culture and economy and forcing them to be isolated? They are goddamn idiots.
On a side note, because of the theme of my wedding my friend came dressed in a outfit appropriate for his nation of origin for 1900s. We have some photos of him talking to Orthodox(ish) Jewish friends.
So yeah my views may be slanted.
Speaking of which I think I owe people a pic of a mammoth in a bow tie?
http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q561/ingdamnit/setup4.jpg
Welcome, Sophia–you’re among friends here.
Thunderfoot (no I’m not bothering with the zero character). What the hell are you and Ed thinking PZ? Yet another oblivious fucking mansplaining sexist? Yeah, we needed him. Real bad.
Tony:
Indeed. The inclusion of her as one of the “Horsewomen” gave me a strong AW, HELL NO reaction. Zinnia, on the other hand, is indeed a great addition to FTB.
Ing, Thunderfart may not be as vitriolic toward other PoC, but the dude’s a demonstrable bigot on more than one front, and he seems to be a libertarian to boot. I kind of doubt he’s enlightened on any racial topics.
My experiences with Muslims have been fairly similar to yours. I have friends who are converts, and I met their circle of religious friends, from various countries, when they still lived locally.
The people at the top can’t get a share of the pie unless they suck up to the privileged, for whatever definition of “privileged” applies.
They remind me of the Democratic Party. I was going to say “blue-dog Democrats” but it’s sort of redundant anymore.
Cicely:
Any two male characters, real or fictional, in any popular work in any medium or genre can be and will be slashed. And “popular” is a flexible term.
Oh joy. Just found out that Tropical Storm Debbie is going to be keeping the Florida Panhandle company pretty much the entire week.
We just *had* a week of wet weather…
Sigh.
Here’s hoping there will only be minimal damages and no casualties.
I’m unfamiliar. Would it be too lazy of me to ask for a bullet points version?
*wide eyed* But he’s sincere so it’s not real bigotry!
I only know of Muslim bullshit. I love how the libertarian ideals carry up until Muslims want to use their owned property rights. Then we have to do something for the good of society!
@Cicely
Fun trivia: it started with Kirk and Spock.
Ing: That is a dapper mammoth.
Ciclely @ #282: Oh, you have no idea. *evil grin, villain cackle* If you want your mind shattered with this stuff, Ms. Daisy Cutter is a neverending source of links to the most wrong slash on Earth. Has left me yelling “OH GOD WHYYYYY” at the monitor numerous times now. And for that, I owe her baked goods and I return the favour at any chance I get.
There is, however, some very well-written odd slash out there. A disappointingly small amount of *ahem* the pairings I look for, though.
Ing: http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck/2012/06/17/the-horsewomen-of-the-feminist-apocalypse/
Re: Thunderfoot
FreeThoughtBlogs: now with 20% less thought!
HS:
And each time I stamp a little screaming face on the side of my desk…
@Ms Daisy
I meant on why Tasmania is seen as not a good choice. I fully understand the love of magical ponies
Ing:
wore toed shoes
Those things are evil and hideous. As are the socks made for them.
Re: your experiences with Muslims
I guess Thunderfuck would have some choice words to say about your friends, without ever meeting them.
@Tony
What!? No! He’d never say anything TO a Muslim that would be discriminatory! He doesn’t hate them! He just acknowledges that their ideology is elemental evil, the worst religion out there, and that we should be at war with the general area of the world where it is popular! It’s not PERSONAL!
What’s more ING, the DICTIONARY SEZ it’s not bigotry. Thunderfoot doesn’t hate muslims in his heart of hearts.
@Josh
See this is why one of us has to bite the bullet and become a Paladin so we can get “sense motive/Sense evil/good” abilities!
@Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy
I’d call it harmless, personally. I think the causation runs the other way, if anything, projecting your experiences into the ships.
@PZ Myers 166
Snakes? Snakes are much worse; my dad had a garter snake that had a litter, and the little beasts got everywhere.
@Sophia
I’m sorry to hear about your situation, glad you’re getting at least some help. As others have said, you’re fully entitled to sympathy for the crap you’re going through, regardless of what has or hasn’t happened to others.
RE:Thunderfoot
I thought I’d heard his name before he came here, it was often in the same sentence as The Amazing Asshole. Now I know why.
Why not just become a wizard and use protection from X. It gives you roughly the same information if you’re flexible enough and have a target in mind.
@Julian
Wizards? Please this is the real world :-p
Ing, I dislike “feminists” who want to dictate to other women how they should live their lives. Banning burqas or any other “modesty” garb is just another way of fighting politics using women’s bodies as a battlefield. The real-world result will be that some women will be confined to their homes by their relatives.
I’m not on board with banning prostitution entirely, either. There are sex workers who enjoy their work, and there are poor women who will not have any other way to make a living in the world as it exists. Radical feminists who campaign against all sex work have a tendency not to actually listen to the women in the field who contradict their assumptions.
This post is straight-up victim blaming:
Yeah, shame on the victims, not on the victimizers. And does she have any fucking idea of the sociological reasons that women are more religious than men are?
Then there’s her femme-shaming, her embrace of anti-choice rhetoric, her (probably unwitting) encouragement of anti-Muslim sentiment, and this stupid shit.
Finally, even though I understand the value of not putting shocking images under a blog cut, she really ought to understand that some of those pics could get people in trouble at their jobs or trigger flashbacks.
Cicely:
Thank you. ♥
Yes I remember being convinced away from that by Walton.
I will continue ignoring the blog :-p
Hi Sophia, well done on getting out. That’s so very hard a step to take, especially when you have a baby. There are heaps of domestic violence resources in Australia. Would you be prepared to tell us what region you’re in? (I’m in Canberra, myself.)
Thanks again, Alethea. I’m in Western Australia. I do have good access to help though, in fact everyone I’ve spoken to outside of the situation itself has been very generous in pointing me to resources to help, even if they’re not even remotely involved.
I had an amazing experience with the community child health nurse – I had an appointment to take the bub for a check-up. This lady was filling in for the regular nurse. We spoke about the little guy, she asked about the situation at home and of course I had to tell her (and this is someone with the power to have your child taken from you if they deem you unfit! Terrifying when you feel threatened) and EVERYTHING she said was fully in support of my position. I was floored – people had been telling me I was the problem for so long, telling me I wasn’t able to take care of my son, telling me I was just being selfish and not being a good wife etc. To have this woman tell me just how good a job I was doing under such horrible circumstances and offer personal help was just… well, I was in tears from relief.
Support comes from the most unlikely places sometimes.
Sophia: It is amazing where support can suddenly come from. It was a near-stranger on the internet for me. I’m glad you got out, and you deserve to be happy and safe.
To people complaining about rain: I can haz your waterzz? (We’re in the middle of a drought, only one state away from flooding. Yep, nooooo such thing as climate change.)
Extra sooper dooper congrats to Thunderfoot, and to Freethoughtblogs! We’ve now got at least two—that’s right, ladies and gentlemen—two blogs infested with slimepitters! It’s so nice to see
ScentedNectarConcentratedWater, Notung, and the rest of the here at FtB! Golly, I don’t have to put on my waders and brave the slimepit to get my fill of misogynistic bigoted crap. . .I can get it right here, in the comfort of FtB.Here’s one Satisfied Customer™ saying, “Thanks, FtB. It’s just what I always wanted.”
If the first 20 mins mean anything, Looks like the new HBO show The Newsroom has some promise
as a benefit though it’ll keep them all in one place and hopefully away from places I care about and might see them.
Seriously though, the fuckers are like vampire tribbles…once you invite them in you’ll never get rid of all of them!
How easy is it to kick a blogger out of FtB? Seriously, ThunderFap has no place here in my view.
PZ: Perhaps a listing of Trolls confined to TZT would be useful? I t could be posted on the same page a the Dungeon. It would certainly help to keep track of them. [X-Post TET/TZT]
@A.R
To my knowledge it has only been leaving voluntarily. No one has ever been booted. Not sure I’d necessarily want that either.
Sorry if I sound flippant about the slimepitters, I realize they bother people more than me, but I really have no clue what to do with such blatant pathology than shake my head in condescending pity.
Perhaps he should be asked to leave then. I just cannot wrap my head around an FtB slimepit.
Oh jeez, what is it about simple advice to treat other people with decency that gets people so stupid and riled up? It’s like they think that reporting sexual harassment will mean men will lose something, when a)the opposite is true and b)human rights is not a zero sum game.
@Ibyea
Well there is some loss to some people, but it is so small it doesn’t matter to me.
Ms Daisy Cutter @289:
While I don’t want to defend TF’s actions in the gender/racial arena, in the interests of accuracy I don’t think he’s a libertarian.
Re: Banning the Burqa (Ms Daisy @305 and Ing @ 307): You know, I’m somewhat conflicted over this. On the one hand, I basically agree with you as far as the fact that banning it seems very anti-civil liberties. Also, such an action would seem deliberately discriminatory and only further rifts between Muslims and non-Muslims. But on the other hand, if there is a cultural pressure in some Muslim communities to wear it, women might have no practical choice but to wear it; banning it might be the only way that these women could possibly not wear it. After all, no laws does not mean maximum freedom. But I might be dealing with some type of straw example here, that doesn’t really apply to Western societies. So I guess I feel conflicted.
@Andy
Doesn’t matter. Banning isn’t helping where it’s tried. Practicality wins.
So I just got back from ‘dinner’ with my friend T. She and I went to Chili’s (at 930pm on a Sunday, our options were limited). Everything was completely fine until shortly after our entrees arrived. The bartender gave us our food and then stepped away to have a conversation with another employee. Both T and I are bartenders and we’ve developed very good hearing (it comes in handy when you overhear people discussing drinks before you’ve greeted them; imagine having your drink handed to you *before* you’ve asked for it). As a result, we heard the entire [short] conversation, which began with:
bartender: “What’s your intent if you buy a woman two drinks and two shots?”
My sexism sense started tingling, and sure enough it was confirmed about 30 seconds later when they’re talking about women getting drunk and passing out. The bartender mentioned his hope that guys act like gentlemen (yeah, there’s that sexist trope again) if a woman passes out, but they were both making light of rape culture. To top it off, the server said something to the effect of
“maybe I won’t remember what happened the next day either”.
…
I lost my appetite. The only reason I didn’t leave is because T was in the middle of eating her meal (which she needed, as she was in a triathlon today). I’m still pissed about the two fuckwits making jokes about rape like that.
To make matters worse, my friend T has been the victim of sexual harassment. She was none too happy with their talk either.
The hell is wrong with people?
@Ing
Yeah, it would take away the ability of jerks to be jerks to other people for no reason at all. It is the kind of loss I want to see happen.
Send an email to the employees (if you remember their names and can figure out their corporate email addresses) openly cc’ed to the location’s manager. Barring that send it to the manager describing the date and time you were there; their software will do the rest.
And if you’re feeling particularly pissed send to places like Consumerist and Pandagon.
I notice that there aren’t many people from here on Thunderchrist’s thread, which is probably a good thing. Slimepit-esque blogger + Slimepit-actual commenters doesn’t mean this particular discussion is going to be very…productive.
Caine: Good luck with Esme and her little ones. Also, how are the duckies coming along?
——————————————–
Sophia: You’re more than welcome to vent/dump here when you need to. You’re in a tough position, and it’s good that you have people in your corner. Sucks about the in-laws, but I guess it’s hard for parents to admit their child is an abusive jackass. I hope you can be done with the whole fiasco soon enough.
———————————————-
Wait, didn’t Thunderfoot join FtB only like a few months ago? Talk about a quick takeover. (Shame they don’t make a spray that will de-slimepit the place with no messy cleanup afterwards.)
———————————————–
I have a new cloak which I bought Saturday at a Ren Faire. I’ve been looking for one for months, and could never find one. Everyone seems to list sizes differently, so even if I could guess what size I needed, there would only be one or two color choices that I didn’t like. Right color? Sorry, it’s made of material which needs to be dry cleaned only. Or it’s a material that I loathe (seriously, rayon makes me sweat like no tomorrow, regardless of the type of garment). Right color, size, and material? That’ll be 300 bucks, please.
So, finally, at this one vendor stand, I found what I wanted. A whole selection of cloaks, all made of material that doesn’t need special care and doesn’t feel like I’ll be sweating buckets in short order. The gray one I tried on looked awful, so went for a navy blue. Bingo! The lady even showed me how to tie it so the cloak wouldn’t ride up and choke me. Up until then the only way I’d seen cloaks fastened was in front, either with ties or with a brooch. And even though the price was over one hundred, it was far less than I’d have paid elsewhere for a cloak of the same size.
——————————————-
Raining again. Between that and the clary sage, so soothing. And that tells me it’s time for bed.
Josh:
That does little except put someone’s job on the line. It does nothing at all to address the standard, day to day sexism which abounds everywhere. This is why we fight the good fight, and no, we can’t reach every single person every single day.
@RahXephon
Oops, I posted there.
You’re right. I’m feeling vindictive, but it wasn’t a good idea.
Follow up to my Chili’s story:
I just sent this email to their Guest Relations Department:
::still pissed off::
PTI:
Just fine. You can track progress at http://needleprovocateur.wordpress.com/
Vampire Duckie is finished and I’m working on Nerd Duckie now.
Tony, what a drag. Kinda weird, too. I’ve done my time in bars and seen enough utter crap to be extra super sensitive. I’ve also seen a new guy go from casual joking to call-a-cab concerned within just a few months. The discussions after a slimy creepy jerk leaves will do that.
Then again, didn’t work on all of them. Some got worse because some people suck.
Folks, please tell that AronRa is not this clueless?
Oh holy Thunderfuck, Batman. I just saw that. Am I happy that I have to go to work now.
Caine, Oh. mah. GAWD! Those illustrated rat pillows are fantastic! Absolutely delicious. Almost distracted me from being insanely jealous of your free-range rats.
Josh:
By the time you read this, you’ll likely see my post about the email I’ve sent. I didn’t cc the locations manager, but the information I was required to fill out included the specific store I was at. I do remember one of the employees’ name, but I didn’t include that (I had 1200 characters to work with, and had to tweak the email a few times to whittle it down). Ironically, I was in the middle of reading Stephanie Zvan’s post on Almost Diamonds about the definition of sexual harassment at the time of the incident (specifically the portion of her post that talks about hostile environments).
Caine:
^^^^^^
Yes. Thank you.
I was trying to figure out how to word that so I didn’t seem insensitive to the issue of sexism. I don’t want someone fired. I’d rather they be educated and understand *why* they are wrong to think the way they do. I have no false hopes that this will lead to anything (I suppose stranger things have happened), but I did feel the need to express my disapproval.
Part Time Insomniac:
Wait, didn’t Thunderfoot join FtB only like a few months ago? Talk about a quick takeover. (Shame they don’t make a spray that will de-slimepit the place with no messy cleanup afterwards.)
I’m fairly certain he joined with the last week or two.
~~
Caine:
vampire duckie? This, I’ve gotta see!
I said my piece on the Thunderchrist thread, but if I keep going I’ll never get any sleep.
Caine:
I love Vampire Duckie!
I scrolled down and saw the pics of your adorable little corn and peas eating friends :) Soooo cute!
Oh, Dog. In the time it took for me to write a comment to Thunderfoot’s blog, it became a cesspool. I couldn’t even bring myself to post — it’s far too depressing a situation for even my nearly irrepressible wonkiness to overcome. Reason is meaningless. Opinion trumps information. I feel like going back to usenet, where the discussions were relatively civilized.
My head hurts, and I feel there is no hope. I have come here for succor.
Is there any beer?
Homosexual-specific insults we have and they are used to belittle (not by me, I hasten to add). Racial insults too (ditto).
As far as misogyny in my culture goes, yes, I am aware of it and I am trying to make my little part in trying to change the tempora.
And I may need to further rethink some of my positions after what I rad in this topic.
dogeared:
Oh, thank you so much! That was some tricky stitchin’. :D The artwork was done by a most fabulous artist, you should really give her blog a visit: The Art of the Illustrated Rat.
Tony:
Thank you, thank you! I broke the pregnancy news to Mister tonight, he’s probably dealing better than I am, except for that nasty “1 to 22” moment, wherein he looked like I just smacked him with baseball bat. Heh.
psanity:
Always. Help yourself. I’m not going anywhere near that clusterfuck. I’ve dealt with SPers enough to know it will go absolutely nowhere, except to get really nasty shit said about me all over again. No thanks.
Caine, Just got back from the Art of the Illustrated Rat and now I’m inspired and a little heart-sad. The cat jumped in my lap and is doing his best but it’s just not the same. Not worse, just not the same. Rats are unique and clever beasties. I miss that whiskery whisper in my ear and the warm bit of squirmy in my front pocket.
I think what bothers me so much about these Slimepit incursions is that it exploits my…I don’t know, low self esteem? Lack of conviction? Willingness to be wrong? I’m not sure what to call it, but it is a vulnerability in my ego that does make me think (only after extensive readings of pitizen writings) that maybe this alternate universe does exist where they are, in some way, right about stuff.
Also, congratulations on the pregnancy! Instead of gifts, I promise to offer no advice.
RahXephon: I have no doubt that the slimepitters are occasionally ‘right’ about stuff. Fairy-tale ogres and comic book villains don’t exist in real life.
But on the sexism issue? Dead wrong.
Yeah, I wasn’t talking about that part.
Well then what part were you talking about Rahxephon? The part where they call us an echo-chamber and talk about how the Pharyngula thugs ‘tow the line’ of True Feminism/Skepticism or whatever the slimepitters go on about?
So I just fired a shot across Thunderfap’s bow in the FtB slimepit, we’ll see what happens now.
TLC, all I’m saying is that I have a poor sense of personal ego and am susceptible to bullying making me unsure of my position, not that I think any “part” of anything they say is “right”.
I also love how Giordana couldn’t comprehend the difference between my juvenile feces-related insults and gendered slurs/rape jokes.
BTW, thanks for providing the evidence, ChasCPeterson, if you’re reading this. I know I shoulda dug it up myself, and you didn’t do it ‘for me’, but I liked that just the same.
dogeared, spotted, and foxed:
Tony, what a drag. Kinda weird, too. I’ve done my time in bars and seen enough utter crap to be extra super sensitive. I’ve also seen a new guy go from casual joking to call-a-cab concerned within just a few months. The discussions after a slimy creepy jerk leaves will do that.
It is becoming more difficult to bite my tongue and walk away from some of the things I hear at work. Alcohol can bring out some of the most undesirable traits in many people.
RahXephon: Ahhh, I getcha now.
Oh Christ on a unicycle, I wake up, check FtB and am painfully reminded why I was not happy about Thunderf00t joining FtB. He might do a decent job at debunking creationists, he sure is crap at arguing… pretty much anything else really.
So now we have our own little slimepit here on FtB. Such fun. Urgh.
Banning the burqa is a terrible idea, and has made life worse for Muslim women, many of whom are now afraid to go out in public for fear of racist harassment:
You can’t “liberate” women by telling them what to wear, and punishing them with criminal sanctions if they don’t comply. This law has nothing to do with combating sexism; it’s about cultural hegemony. For those women who want to wear the veil, banning the veil denies them the right to make their own choices about their appearance; and for those who are coerced into wearing it by family members, banning the veil doesn’t set them free, it just stops them from going out of the house and reduces their independence even further.
Ibyea,
I would be surprised if AronRa was as clueless as Thunderfoot. After all, Tfoot has shown his cluelessness (is that a word?) time and time again whenever he strays from the subject of creationism. Just look at his videos on Islam.
I don’t know anything much about Thunderf00t, other than having seen a few of his anti-creationist videos when they were linked here. But I gather that he’s an Islamophobe?
(I am really fed up with privileged white male atheists who think it’s ok to vilify and malign Muslims, despite the fact that Muslims are a marginalized and oppressed group in Western societies, and that anti-Muslim rhetoric plays right into the hands of the far right and their hostility to non-Western immigration.)
I think this counts as a win for ‘our side’:
I would like to know *why* he changed his mind. I hope that he reached this conclusion after giving the matter serious thought. That would mean he comprehends why queers should be able to marry. That said, I’m happy there appears to be one less anti-gay activist out there.
I didn’t know a lot about Thunderfoot before, just that he made videos, but I’m so disappointed. I’ve seen each additional FTB blog as another shiny interesting thing, but this one is a bust.
Oh, well. Being a skeptic shouldn’t mean you have to give up a cherished belief system, or have to attempt an informed opinion. Apparently.
In other news, it looks like Justin is doing some serious regrouping. I hope he’s OK — he’s not a total idiot, and he does good work in the world, and I think he can get this. Learning can be so painful.
Well, let’s say he’s a bit paranoid when it comes to Islam, and his video about the ground zero ‘mosque’ was complete ill informed bullshit. He once made the claim that ‘even the most moderate Muslim is worse than the worst christian creationist’ (I don’t remember the exact wording, but it was something like this). That was when I stopped subscribing to his channel on youtube.
Anyone who campaigned against the building of the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque” (which was neither a mosque nor located at Ground Zero) can be written off as a paranoid Islamophobe. Note to atheists: if you find yourself arguing on the same side of an issue as far right Tea Party activists, you’ve gone seriously wrong somewhere.
Social Change in India Makes Me Happy:
Yes, they should have already had laws protecting children from sexual abuse, but they them have now. The Indian government should take this time to reevaluate other social issues negatively impacting their country.
I wonder what attracted Thunderfoot to FTB, seeing as how his first move was to point out that FTB’s bloggers are just totally not up to his standards of privileged social blindness.
Not to mention that he’s already backed up the drains and flooded the place. Ick.
If anyone cares, Justicar has shown up in that Thunderchrist thread and my disgust level has shot through the floor.
[Possible trigger warning]
He went on this long screed about how awesome Abbie is, how Rebecca “pretended to lecture 3.5 billion people on how to treat the other 3.5 billion” and how “arrogant” that is. I expect that shit, but the really weird part is how he seems to be reveling in engaging in misogyny about Abbie as if it’s stuff that we’re saying, like that “the slimepit” is a reference to her vagina(?!).
I mean, what the shit?!
Walton @365,
Yep, touché.
Basically Thunderf00t claimed Muslim’s building the ‘ground zero mosque’ were like the Westboro baptist assholes protesting at funerals.
psanity @367
No idea. Especially since the opinions of FtB bloggers (well, a lot of them anyway)on issues such as feminism, affirmative action, etc… are pretty widely known. Another thing that bothers me immensely about Thunderf00t’s post is that he obviously hasn’t been reading all that’s been said about the matter here on FtB. He just doesn’t know what he’s on about. Every time it’s not about science, Thunderf00t just doesn’t bother looking at the evidence or doing a bit of research.
Okaaaaaaaaaay… WTF?!
@pentatomid
Yeah.
I don’t want to quote it, so I’ll just leave a link.
I offered Justicar a helpful suggestion.
–
Seriously, it’s never been a reference to a vagina, has it?
The Patriarchy.
Take the red pill.
RESIST
I think this may be as good as we’re going to get in the way of reasons:
If the planetoid in “Alien” had a similar orbit it could explain how it could have a ringed gas giant planet visible in the sky and still not be a moon:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21964-astrophile-exoplanetary-bedfellows-make-odd-couple.html
(four AM rambling because this shit keeps me awake) …I keep trying to figure out what on earth they’re on about, and the only halfway rational explanation I can find is that they seriously think all words are harmless by definition, thus any level of insult, slur, hatefulness etc only causes offence because the target’s at fault for not laughing it off, and the only “wrong” is condemning said speech. But that theory doesn’t even make sense for long, because they immediately turn around and use words as viciously as possible – slurring, lying, misrepresenting, eliding, gaslighting, picking up each others’ lies and spin and amplifying them, poisoning unrelated discussions, and counter-accusing anyone who calls them on their bullshit. “Free speech” is just a cover for “free-for-all” and they only scream about any attempt to referee. It doesn’t make sense to my literal mind, like a verbal optical illusion; I can’t focus on that crap for very long, much less argue against it. So, y’know, thanks y’all who actually take this shit head on.
Worse than Thunderextremity?
“Bryan Fischer: Let Sick People Die” http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatches/2012/06/24/fischer-let-sick-people-die/
psanity,
Have another beer.
Never in the past year, not until J invented it just now. But that poisonous shit sounded juuuust plausible enough that some of it stuck, no? And now we can never un-hear it. (Mark the date; I bet this one will be repeated through winter.)
I saw the arrival of Tfoot and Cris and AronRa, I will…
…await developments.
The assorted-isms/privilege blindness and assorted interblog dramatics on this segment of the web are getting on my nerves if I’m honest. And yeah, the ability to walk away from it is {drumroll} an aspect of privilege.
Meh, maybe it’s Monday Boredness.
Just this endless eyeroll worthy wankery of ZOMG SALLY STRANGE LOVES TEH RAYPE JOKE and TEH SLIMEPIT IS REALLY CUDDLEBUNNY CENTRAL and MEEN NAMEZ + BIGOTRTY and people being whinging tossers about being banned from this or that blog. Urgh it’s just so fucking dull.
The tedious fevered egos of the bruised man fee-fee crowd and the endless dishonest conflation of “treat women like people” with “SEX IS BAD” it’s just…..urgh.
There have to be better conversations out there. My disappointment in the human species has hit early this week I guess. Maybe it’s a come down after a weekend of debauchery.
Louis
Caine,
Separate post for clarity of purpose!
1) YAYAYAYAYAYAYA CAINE!!!!!! {sprints over, launches through the air in a tackle-hug, realises mid flight that I am some dirty great lump of a bloke and Caine is about to be squished, performs abortive forward roll, calmly walks up to Caine and shakes her hand. Mild to moderate hugging ensues}
2) RATS! The best of luck to you and Momma Rat Esme!
Sorry but as a former snake owner and lover of the damned things, I can heartily recommend PZ’s #166. It’s tricky (emotionally, perhaps even ethically if you are considering the ethics of keeping pets at all) but doable, maybe I am just a callous bastard. We used to have a population of rats for rat pet and snake feeding purposes when I had my snake.
Louis
After waking up and reading thunderfoot I am glad I can come here and see a bit of appropriate disdain and disgust for such crap being posted.
I dont post often here but im glad this crowd exists for my reading pleasure and sanity.
Possible Trigger Warning:
.
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.
.
.
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Am I wrong in thinking that this is fundamentally an issue of individual autonomy? We are allowed to euthanize our pets, so it can’t be an issue of taking a life. This is specific to humanity. As if humans were something special. Or chosen.
Is it a religious issue? It would be easy to see opposition to assisted dying or euthanasia coming from religion. After all, one of the biggest religions on Earth, Christianity, looks down upon suicide (if Jesus=God and is omnipotent and omniscient, then he knew that one day he would send himself to earth to die for humanity; sure seems like suicide to me).
There it is, in bold [my emphasis]. The fundamental concept: individual autonomy.
Why should people be able to risk their lives due to dangerous activities they engage in, yet they cannot retain control over their body should they desire to end their life?
Why can you mercifully and humanely put your beloved pet down if they’re suffering a terminal illness, but the same doesn’t hold for humanity?
Euthanasia addresses the end of life wishes for the individual. Others are free to seek or not seek out euthanasia, but they cannot expect others to share their opinions and they’ve no right to force their beliefs on others.
Am I reading Thunderfoot right? It appears he is saying that in order to preserve people’s right to flirt and hook up in the bar after a conference, we cannot have a sexual harassment policy AT the conference.
Louis:
The all-or-nothing mentality with the insane conflations seems to be a symptom of privilege blindness. I’m currently dealing with a nasty case of it in my husband, who’s convinced himself somehow that groping my breasts without consent is perfectly justified since I can touch his chest freely without asking. You know, because there’s no societal difference between male and female breasts and no stigma or sexuality associated with one over the other. Yeah.
It seems to come about when a seemingly rational (to the person unknowingly inflicting harm) position is challenged – the objection in the first case might be sincere – “Wow, I didn’t know you felt that way, I’ve always done things this way and nobody’s ever objected before.”
This morphs into: “Who the hell are you to accuse me of this thing I don’t believe I’m doing wrong? You have no right to make me feel so bad, and I still think you’ve got it wrong so the problem’s obviously with you.”
This then becomes “You’re STILL going on about that? I’ve told you you’re wrong, I’ve dug myself in and I’ll continue to defend my indefensible position with whatever argument comes to mind regardless of whether or not it makes any practical sense, because to give in now would be a massive loss of face and winning is MUCH more important than being right!”
From there, it can only devolve into a poo-flinging match from the side who’s defending the indefensible because there’s literally nothing else for them to do at that point. They’re most likely aware on some level that there’s no real meat to their position, but the focus is on ‘not losing’ rather than doing what’s right. In other words, a lose-lose situation. Arguing further at this point is simply causing them to dig in further, whilst dropping the subject and refusing to engage any more means they ‘win’.
I’ve got no idea how to deal with that mentality, and it’s so disturbingly common. Had a long chat about it with my awesome psychiatrist today – we talked about debating techniques, rigid thinking and logical fallacies. He is so. cool. :)
Yargh, work, you are keeping me from being able to write, damn you!!! I have so much to write, so little time to do it, and I have to do work!! Stupid economy, why do I need to have money, I should just be able to write!
Oh right, cause if I weren’t working I’d be living with my parents and like hell they’d understand my desire to transition, and I’d be back in that little closeted world, and who knows what’d happen after that.
Owlmirror @374:
Thanks for that. That does point to a sincere change of heart. Not completely for reasons I would have preferred, but at least his change of heart seems to have involved taking an evidence based look at his beliefs.
Um, the way I read it is that he’s OKAY with you touching his chest without asking, which means he consents to it. You’re not okay with him groping you without asking, so you don’t consent. Unwanted groping isn’t okay in general, regardless of gender or the parts involved. Societal differences *inform* each person’s decision, in that female breasts are considered to be more overtly sexual than male ones are; but it’s still fundamentally a person’s choice as to how and when they permit their body to be touched, not a quid pro quo.
Pteryxx:
Bingo. That was the point I was trying ot make before the situation got stupid and he started ‘digging in’ and bringing out the completely stupid arguments just to have something to say so as not to ‘lose’.
It’s ridiculous, and I don’t think he really believes that either, but it’s a desperate attempt to save face even though there’s no reason to do so.
Honestly, he’s not a bad person, but he is DEFINITELY a product of his upbringing and society in general. He fought hard to get where he is, so anything that challenges his perceived authority is an attack and has to be quashed by any means necessary. It’s a distinctly hopeless situation.
Sophia:
Welcome, and hugs if you want them. This is indeed a safe space to vent. I wouldn’t worry about others having it worse than you though. It’s been my experience that those who’ve suffered tend to understand suffering. And those who don’t come through such experiences with a faculty for compassion don’t last long here.
I’m not a mental health professional in anyway so please treat my opinion as suspect, okay, it’s just one person’s observation after all. My abuse was purely psychological, an alcoholic father, and I’m pretty sure that the depression I suffered was the result of untreated PTSD. If your therapists haven’t mentioned PTSD I’d ask them about it and make sure that any treatment plan includes mitigation against it.
Tony @31
Thanks for that. As a Canadian ex-pat in Australia I’ll never get to testify before congress but the compliment is very much appreciated. That was indeed the tone I was going for and it was also why I hesitated to post it. It kinda felt like jumping up on a table and giving an impassioned speech at quiet dinner party where everyone is chatting about this and that. Mind you, the nice thing about comment threads is that one can simply skip over the stuff that’s not of interest. There is no real talking over one another unless things get out of hand and the comments are coming so fast that a sub-thread is hard to follow.
opposablethumbs
Thank you. I sounded lyrical in my head but there’s no way to know if that’s the way it fell on the page so your comment is much appreciated.
Ah Thunderfoot. I enjoyed his creationist series, and I loved his science videos, and I largely ignored his Islamic ones. Head in the sand, who me? But fuck me with a platypus, that post was pig ignorant bollocks with a side helping of carbonated pisswater. Now I see that he’s just another privilege blinded asshole who’s going full tilt for a mansplainin’ world record.
Go Tfoot, Go! You can do it, you can out slime the pitters. All you have to do is want it bad enough and the universe will surely hand you the Golden Turd of Crypto-Mysogyny on a rotting platter of unevidenced opinions, you fucking ignorant douchtoque.
Re. Supernatural horror stories with Satan as baddie.
Bucky Katt attempts to write horror/gothic literature, but Satchel is not an ideal test audience…
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/06/19
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/06/20
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/06/21
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/06/22
http://www.gocomics.com/getfuzzy/2012/06/23
Actually, as awful as Bucky’s writing is, I can think of at least one other book featuring the same villain that is even worse.
Re. the previous comment. “Zombie gophers” (at link) actually sound cute. Deterrent value = zero. If the book of revelations said “and the unbelievers shall be nibbled by undead gophers” it would fall flat.
Sophia Dodds,
1) Hi and welcome to TET.
2) HOLY CRAP! I can only sympathise, that sounds like an annoying…erm…not just annoying btw…situation to be in.
The “not being wrong” thing. I know THAT well. It’s really hard to dial down sometime in an argument. I know loads of people that are really bad at it, and I have to think about it!
I’ve thought about changing fields to psychology to study the “not being wrong” phenomenon, I reckon there’s gold in them thar hills! ;-)
Louis
Thanks again, FossilFishy and Louis :)
Oddly enough, my analytical-to-the-point-of-wtf self feels a heck of a lot better after running my experiences through the Pharyngula mill. I think it’s because I’m able to recognise and compare behaviour patterns in some of the more infamous commenters on these blogs and the impeccable reasoning of a lot of the regulars.
I never got up the nerve to comment much before, but I think it might do me good to develop some nice, sniny fangs. A good solid foot-ectomy from the mouth region every now and then might do a world of good too.
Ing:
Roaches, actually.
(Oh, noes, I’ve dehumanized the slimepitters!! And they’ll be quoting me ad infinitum!)
A.R: LOL, “Thunderfap.” You know, I saw “thunderdouche” used as an epithet some time ago, and I was highly amused. I didn’t realize it would eventually be a proper as well as a common noun.
ibyea:
Because they don’t consider women people, but objects there for teh menz’ amusement and convenience.
Andy, Thunderdouche appears to be somewhere on the political right. I have no interest in watching his videos or reading any more of his posts to find out specifically where he stands. As for the cultural pressure to wear the burqa, laws against it will not necessarily make those pressures disappear. There are laws against FGM in Western countries, too, yet it still goes on in those countries.
Walton:
No shit. No matter who’s doing it: Fundie xtians, fundie Muslims, radical feminists, or the sorts of dudes who want to “liberate” us from our clothing because we should be (and a lot of them congregate on Nasreen’s blog).
Caine, why shouldn’t the job of someone like that be put on the line? I consider bringing that incident to management’s attention to be “cutting chips out of the monster,” as FossilFishy put it. If I were a woman, I wouldn’t want to be drinking in that bar. And, you know what, the odds are pretty good that the bartenders won’t be fired, anyway, because “blah blah blah overreacting political correctness blah blah blah.”
Seriously, fuck those bartenders. If they think rape is such a har-har issue they have no business working in a fucking bar. Tony, good for you for reporting it.
PTI, Thunderdump hasn’t even been on FTB for a week.
Also, according to this blogger, St0rmfr0nt seemed to really enjoy TF’s “Draw Muhammad Day” videos.
Pentatomid, TF seems to be one of those d00dz who doesn’t need to read up on any issues he considers unimportant before he opens his yap about them. Rather like the ones who drop into long threads about feminism without reading any preceding comments to offer us their “wisdom,” and then complain when it’s not accepted graciously.
Pteryxx, the straight cis white male d00dz are defending their privilege. There are no slurs targeted against them that have any serious social power; checking their ability to use slurs against people with less privilege than they have levels the playing field a little bit.
Sophia:
He’s acting like a bad person. This is what’s important.
Sorry, he is a bad person. Lots of us fought hard to get where we are. We don’t use that as an excuse to violate other people’s boundaries.
Zombie gophers, vampire tribbles…I love TET.
“Societal differences *inform* each person’s decision, in that female breasts are considered to be more overtly sexual than male ones are; but it’s still fundamentally a person’s choice as to how and when they permit their body to be touched, not a quid pro quo”
I would certainly not want a woman to grab my testicles, either. I hope the moron walks up to some film star with a six-foot bodyguard and tries his thing. After he has gotten his ass kicked the judge will explain “personal space” to him at length. Like, six month lenght.
@birgerjohansson
Interesting sentiment, but you’re talking about my husband. He’s not as stupid as he’s pretending to be, he just has that irritating ‘win at all costs’ attitude that’s prevalent in authoritatian types. Doesn’t excuse his behaviour at all of course, but it does explain it. I still hold out a small hope he can at least be made to understand where he’s gone wrong, in fact I’m pretty sure anyone can if they have a single shred of empathy for the person they’ve wronged. The struggle is to find out how, and that’s what I’m currently dealing with.
No, I’m not going to go back to the way things were and I’m not banking on him making a major personality change for my benefit, but I know there’s empathy in him, I’ve felt it on many occasions. Wouldn’t have married the guy otherwise, you know.
Sophia,
I have to say I am a fan of the “public and loud testicle grabbing” solution. Done repeatedly and in the right environment (next to, for example, the grapefruit in the supermarket with a loud exclamation of “yours don’t really measure up do they sweetie”. Similar fun can be had by the cucumbers) I feel this could be a useful learning tool. Or at least something to tell the grandkids one day! ;-)
Louis
I’m starting to think that we need a decon facility to get the toxic slime off of those of us who are commenting in the FtB slimepit before we comment on the rest of the FtB blogs. It won’t be long until we’re battling the Hoggle-meister himself.
I feel the same. And I would rather see my favourite FtB bloggers start talking and writing more about other stuff again, but that’s up to them of course, and there is a fair amount of shit to deal with right now. What I really don’t like are the calls of “why was blogger X allowed to join”, it’s called Freethoughtblogs, remember, all kinds of opinions and viewpoints should be allowed to be presented here, we can always disagree and criticize away, we’re not paying customers who might have some kind of right to an expectation of having only certain opinions voiced and expressed, and it’s Ed’s and PZ’s joint in the end.
For example take Thunderdolt, I really liked the guy before, and thought he did a great job with his creationist videos. This post of his has helped me revise and refine my opinion of him, and I definetely wouldn’t ever want a beer with the man. It’s a good thing !
Louis:
You make me laugh as I’m just getting all peevish again. Annoying knack for that, you have.
Argh. I feel crappy for defending the guy, I know it’s not the thing I should really be doing, but I can’t just up and move on. He genuinely doesn’t understand how much what he does hurts me, and I sympathise with that. His methods are exasperatingly stupid and I shouldn’t be blah blah blah etc.
I dunno. I’ve been married a couple years and it’s really not been all bad. I obviously can’t go on as things were, but I can’t up and decide he’s pure evil when he clearly isn’t. Intent isn’t magic, we all know that, but ignorance is a big part of it and that can be corrected if there’s a strong enough spark of feeling there. I just have to find out whether that’s the case.
*sigh*
Sucky, sucky times.
FossilFishy:
It kinda felt like jumping up on a table and giving an impassioned speech at quiet dinner party where everyone is chatting about this and that. Mind you, the nice thing about comment threads is that one can simply skip over the stuff that’s not of interest. There is no real talking over one another unless things get out of hand and the comments are coming so fast that a sub-thread is hard to follow.
*Quiet* dinner?
This crowd?
Oh, and looking back at TET over the last few days, I think that little slow down we had isn’t going to last long. Especially when everyone is able to get their laptops/computers back up and running (which reminds me, I need to get a new hard drive for mine, so I can stop using this Mac that makes me feel more tech inept than my normal PC)
My advice so feel free to tell me to fuck off. Try to stop thinking like that. People who are abusive use that to walk all over people. Don’t get into the trap of feeling guilty for being mad at someone who treats you bad because they’re sometimes nice. You’re worth being treated well 100% of the time, not 80 or 50 or 12 or whatever.
I can’t up and decide he’s pure evil when he clearly isn’t.
I apologize if this advice is unwanted, but…I’m sure your husband is not pure evil. But it doesn’t sound like he’s in a place yet where he can have an egalitarian and healthy relationship with you. Not putting up with his BS may be the only thing you can reasonably do for him now to set him on the path to some more reasonable mindset.
Of course, usual caveats about my not knowing your situation, etc. I’m just going by what you’ve said here.
Sophia:
Oddly enough, my analytical-to-the-point-of-wtf self feels a heck of a lot better after running my experiences through the Pharyngula mill.
It’s so refreshing to know that there are others out there are analytical -to-the-point-of-wtf. I’m the opposite of impulsive (by and large). When I plan for something (moving or vacation) I will overthink everything. Decision making can be tough too, because I’ve got so many thoughts percolating upstairs and I’m constantly thinking and rethinking to the point that I don’t get anything accomplished.
Ing:
True. It’s very strange – I’ve read the studies, I’ve given the same advice to people myself. When you’re actually going through it, it’s… well. It’s so different. It’s incredibly difficult to -not- give the benefit of the doubt to somoene you’ve made an emotional committment to, even if it’s not being properly reciprocated. On a strange meta level the little analytical scientist person in my head is taking notes in a little goatee-beard wearing, German-accented labcoaty kind of way and cross-referencing my own experiences with what I know about people in abusive relationships.
Goes to show how hard it is to apply knowledge when you’ve got a real emotional investment in a particular situation sometimes. Interesting, really, and quite telling.
@dianne:
You’re right, and that’s exactly what I’m doing right now. :)
@tony:
Indeed! Do you get the multi-levelled meta brain analysis goin on in every situation too? No matter how bad I get, how bad my depressive episodes get and how weird things become physically and mentally, I’ve always got a few little chattering brain bits that comment and analyse everything to varying degrees of weird pedantry. I always thought I was a bit weird that way – my psychologist certainly thought so :P
Sophia, I agree entirely with Ing. Have you heard of “the cycle of abuse”? The abuser’s occasional displays of kindness, apologies, etc. serve the purpose of creating self-doubt in the victim — and, in front of third parties, boosting the abuser’s credibility.
At last check, we have:
Thunderdump.
Thunderdouche.
Thunderfap.
Thunderdolt.
Who’s got more?
Thunderfart.
Blunderfoot?
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter:
Yep. I know a lot about it, and as I said I’ve given the same advice to people in similar situations. I know what I should be doing – at least the rational part of my brain does. That part also tells me that I’m not going back to that relationship no matter what the outcome (excepting an impossible permanent revelation, self-reflection and reversal in behaviour) and that what I’m doing is the right thing to do.
The emotional part of me, however, can’t give up on the ideal. You know, that nasty socialised part of you that yearns for the idyllic happy marriage scenario where your child will grow up with two loving parents who are together and happy and everything is love and kittens and large buckets for vomiting into due to the sickly sweetness of the whole thing.
I always figured I had that emotional part all squashed away inside a nice little reason-reinforced cage. Turns out it’s just not that easy. Having the little guy involved just makes it harder still.
I like “Chunderf00t”, but it only really makes sense if you’re Aussie or fluent in Stupid Aussie Slang.
You know, that nasty socialised part of you that yearns for the idyllic happy marriage scenario where your child will grow up with two loving parents who are together and happy and everything is love and kittens and large buckets for vomiting into due to the sickly sweetness of the whole thing.
And everyone takes their insulin daily due to the treacle induced diabetes, no doubt.
That would all be very well, if you had it. But you don’t and have to deal with real life as it is. Please don’t believe the claims that you must stay together for the child. The research supporting that is flawed, to put it mildly (will give more details if you want, but won’t bother if you’re not interested.) There is some reasonable quality research suggesting that level of conflict is more important than the divorce/no divorce decision in how well kids do. A high conflict marriage may actually do more damage than a relatively civilized divorce. Also your kid is 3 months old, IIRC? Whatever is going on will be his “normal”.
Disclosure: I grew up in a household with two parents who were unhappy but trying to stay together until they got rid of the kids. It was less than ideal, but my childhood is not your situation and you should keep in mind that my advice may have a bias due to personal anecdote.
@dianne
Yup. Re-reading the post above it might seem as though that squirmy little emotional ideal-worm might be winning, but you can be reassured it’s not. As I continue to talk to my psychiatrist, family and other people about things, the more I’m resolved to stand my ground, not go back and just try to get a dialogue going to determine the future of my possessions, cat and other such sundry issues. (Except my cat. She’s not sundry at all and I miss her deeply. :( )
I suppose I’m trying to simply remark on how oddly difficult it is to defend against that part of you rather than saying I’m struggling with it in a particularly unhealthy way. I’m weird like that, everything’s a big opportunity for observation and research. Totally the reason I went into chefing rather than staying at university and finishing my genetics degree. Derp.
Daisy: Barely a week and that place is a disgrace? That’s scary.
Also, how about Thunderdunce?
—————————————–
Caine: Vampire duckie is adorable! Nerd duckie looks almost like Velma. I can’t wait to see how this one turns out.
—————————————–
Jackass bartenders: Haven’t met any myself, but maybe I’ve just been lucky. Tony’s post made me flash back to the time we scoping out places for an engagement party for Brother and SiL. Once we’d decided that the place we were in was just the ticket, the waiter actually asked if there would be any single women at the party.
I was single at the time. In fact, I would be the only single woman there. Aaaaand cue the encouragement to flirt and blah blah blah with said waiter.
Looking back, I realize now that aside from not being very dependable (the guy was fired not long after that night), that was kind of a creepy thing of him to ask. Creepier still was how Mom prodded me to act around him. I wish I could rewind back to that point and tell her to stop.
The next time something like that happens, I think I will have to tell my family to shut up and leave me out of it. It’s crystal-clear to me now why I got angry each time she or someone else pulled shit like that on me. /end personal reflection
————————————————
Rainy day, storms on and off. There goes my plan to get a run in. Time for lunch.
Well he probably regards himself as Thunderpants, using the British meaning of pants. I suspect the women he comes into contact with would not agree though.
Sophia: a few years back, two friends and I had a surreal chat where each of us, in turn, described receiving what was plainly abusive behavior to the OTHER two friends, while being unable to perceive it as abusive ourselves. Sometimes we were describing *the same behavior* to each other, yet we’d say “That’s terrible!” to the others and somehow justify it or excuse it when applied to oneself. It’s oddly difficult to go from “This person you care about is being abusive to you” to “This person I care about is being abusive TO ME”. Sense it does not make. So, it might be useful to accept it as a common cognitive illusion. (That was my introduction to the concept of cognitive dissonance. It still took over six months for me to go from “This is abusive behavior” to “I am being abused” myself.)
Try re-reading or imagining your description coming from a friend or acquaintance, or one of us here, with X and Y for the names. I bet pattern recognition kicks in.
I usually refer to him as Thunderchrist, since he’s apparently the savior not only of science, but now of skeptics ravaged by mindless feminism OOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA!
Sophia, #413, I understand. But I think Dianne is worth listening to. That “idyllic happy marriage/family scenario” is, insofar as it’s promulgated as an ideal, politically oppressive to abused spouses (and abused children), as well as to the many of us who don’t fit into that ideal at all. What I said waaaay up at comment #17 about family veneration applies to significant others as well.
*waves at Sophia Dodds*
—–
The last couple of weeks FTB has started to look like one of those huge pileups on a highway that started with a little accident, but cars just keep hitting it.
Please consider joining me for Dry July !
*nods*
Pteryxx and Daisy – yup. I agree.
Really – I do recognise it – now. I believe I was trying to make that point in my first post on this thread thanking Pharyngulites and the FTB crew in general for waking me up to the situation in the first place.
It takes a goddamned long time and a lot of shit to have it finally dawn on you, and I think if I hadn’t been an avid reader of these blogs and the recent sexism and privilege discussions hadn’t have happened I might still be a passenger chained in the hold of the SS Clueless.
cicely,
Well, it’s just the shiny Avengers version. Not the real thing.
Sound familiar ?
*hugs again to Sophia*
—
Anyone have the Fitzgerald translation of the Aeneid? I seem to have left mine somewhere (*sad*), and there’s a passage I’m trying to find. (When Apollo possesses the Cumaean Sibyl.)
As for Thunderwhatsit, you can hardly blame PZed alone for inviting him here. My impression was the backchannel runs more or less like a collective, so if he’s here, it’s because a majority wanted him.
And if he’s a Libertarian, won’t Brayton have thrown in with him?
This one is for personal purposes, not scholarly. I’m not always super incompetent.
JT Failhard really should choose his words more wisely. It’s hard not to read his latest headline as passive-aggressive:
This seems to be a good enough thread for a technical question about this site. Whenever I’m commenting, I always see the following three checkboxes below:
☐ Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. You can also subscribe without commenting.
☐ Notify me of follow-up comments by email.
☐ Notify me of new posts by email.
I know what the last one means, but can anyone differentiate the first two? I assume it’s just a bug of some sort? For what it’s worth, I’m logged in with my Google account.
This bugs me less than his somewhat ghoulish project to get the “truth” out of Leah Libresco about her conversion to catholicism. Who the fuck is he to go all righteous inquisitor on her ? It’s sensationalist and misguided in my view, and I have told him so on G+ already.
Welcome in, Sophia Dodds, and I wish that we were meeting you under better circumstances. Unfortunately (for a given definition of “unfortunately”), I have no relevent experience from which to offer advice…but I’m sure that there are others here who are. All I can offer you is moral support. :(
–
Not so much, if/when their ignorant paranoid bigoted whitey offspring are later sponsored in public office. At this point the words “Liberty College” spring to mind….
–
I can haz description, pls???
–
Prurient seems more like it.
I hadn’t heard of this stalker project of his. I only know of the cancer charity post because it was in the list of recent ones on the right, and I wanted to see what kinda shit he was trying to stir up this time.
cicley: It sounds uncomfortable, which is why I wouldn’t have thought of it myself, I guess. In reality, it’s simple and not all that uncomfortable.
Take the ties and bring them under your armpits. Tie them in back, below your shoulder blades, in much the same way you’d tie shoes. For colder weather, just criss-cross the ties under your chin and then take the ends and do the behind-the-back part. See? No more choking!
Insomniac: so the weight of the cloak’s worn more or less like a backpack would be? Sounds awesome.
Hallo, Louis! {tacklehugs} ♥
Dogeared, aaaaw, I’m so sorry you’re ratless. It’s tough, when you miss them so.
PTI:
Velma! Oh gods, you’re right. Hee. From now on, she shall be known as Velma Duckie.
Daisy, what’s the point in getting someone fired and not only leaving them with the same sexist views, but views which might well become bitter and entrenched thanks to losing a job? I’d prefer to see people educated on matters.
Ah; thanks, PTI. That does sound workable, but I’d have to retrofit ties onto mine. It’s thick, and lined, and I don’t think that I’m at all up to not making a terrible hack-job of it (what with my To The Death! relationship of mutual loathing with the evil Sewing Machine), but I’ll keep the tip tucked back in my mind, for later.
–
http://memebase.com/2012/06/25/internet-memes-make-it-rain/
The gif amused me for its exposure of the double standards of the patriarchy.
The comments make me want to hit something for their utter obliviousness.
Sili:
I found it disgusting and nauseating. That shit is not funny.
Caine, what’s the point of confronting bigoted attitudes if bigots suffer no consequences? Would you at least support firing them if, once spoken to, they continued to espouse those attitudes at work?
Also, it wasn’t, if you’ll excuse the expression, “just” sexist remarks, e.g. “women are bitches.” The server sounded as though he were actively planning to commit a rape. He may have been talking about a woman not in the restaurant, but he has access to the drinking glasses of customers. If I were a bar or restaurant owner I wouldn’t want him in my establishment, and not just out of disgust and anger but because he could harm one of my customers and, eventually, my reputation.
I could see giving the bartender a bit more slack, but not the server.
@Sili:
Er, yea. No. That’s not funny, I’m with Caine on this one.
In other news, the Farm Bill is going to cut 4.5 billion from the food stamp program and give it to, among other things, corporations that make sugar! Because sugar is so nutritious! I LOVE IT!!!!!*
*I don’t love it.
Fair ‘nough.
Thanks.
rorachach:
I don’t drink anyway, what’s the point?
In other news, the Farm Bill is going to cut 4.5 billion from the food stamp program and give it to, among other things, corporations that make sugar! Because sugar is so nutritious!
Actually sugar (glucose) is a macronutrient. You can’t live without some source of calories. I agree with your basic point but get finicky about the popular definition of “nutritious”. Sugar and fat are nutrients, they’re just nutrients that we have in an overabundance to the point of toxic effects. And growers/refiners of sugar should stop being corporate welfare cheats.
Although the fact that Toomey is one of the sponsors of the repeal sugar subsidies amendment does make me wonder if maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all. The man’s not a Santorum, but he’s quite the Republican.
And then they can institute sin taxes to raise the price of overly-sugared foods and drinks, and attempt to ban unhealthy “luxury” foods from the food stamp program, so poor people have to pay even more money to the sugar corporations to actually eat their products!
Can we tax or restrict sugar-food marketing to children yet? Yeah, that’s what I thought. *snort*
Pteryxx @ 436: Yes, exactly like a backpack. It’s easy to take off the cloak as well, just untie in back and it slides right off. If I manage to find a fleece one for the colder months, I’m checking the ties to make sure they’re long enough for this method.
dianne…I know sugar has nutritional content. By my sarcastic “it’s so nutritious” comment, I meant it’s not a replacement for a diet consisting of actual food, something a lot of people will no longer be getting when the food stamp program is gutted.
Sophia:
Here’s an example:
A few months ago, T and I went out for a few drinks on a Sunday night. The bar was virtually empty save the two of us, two other patrons, and the owner/bartender. At one point I went to the bathroom and noticed the stall was drenched in urine (guys can be disgusting in the restroom; don’t get me started on how often I see guys *not* wash their hands in bathrooms). As I’m standing there, my analytical to a point mind starts thinking about how I was told it was dead all night, so that meant there weren’t many guests that would have passed through the bathroom. I thought about the other duo that was in there, and thought maybe it was one of them. Then I found out the restaurant next door (that share’s a restroom) was closed, so no one from there would have used the bathroom. It was more than likely one of the two people that were in there (or the owner). In any case, the specifics don’t matter. It was my brain running unchecked, making connections where there may or may not have been any and I wish I could have hit the big STOP button.
RahXephon: Don’t mind me. I’m just being literal minded. You’re entirely right.
I’m not sure what the people who no longer qualify for food stamps are supposed to do. Beg on the street? Go to church in the hopes of getting some food with their propaganda?
I do still wonder what Toomey’s up to with sponsoring this bill though and what might have been hidden in the fine print. Maybe I’m misjudging him. A look at his actual legislation suggest that he does sometimes sponsor sound bills. But…well, it’s hard to trust someone who is overtly pro-rapist and anti-equality, no matter how many sensible bills on agriculture reform he sponsors.
Re: Walton @ 359: Thanks for the links.
It shouldn’t surprise me, but it does, that people have responded to that law with increased hostility and bigotry towards women wearing the veil. Chalk that up to another reason for misanthropy.
So as not to derail the conversation there, I have a question inspired by one of the subdiscussions on the Thunderfoot thread:
I agree that calling adult women “girls” is infantilizing. However, I’ve encountered a handful of women, mainly in their 20s, who object to being referred to as “women” and prefer “girls,” saying that it makes them “feel old.”
Is it worth pointing out that this feeds into a lot of really messed up attitudes, or should I just humor them?
Caine:
Velma! Oh gods, you’re right. Hee. From now on, she shall be known as Velma Duckie.
Velma Duckie, you’re the one
You make mysteries lots of fun…
(sorry, the old kids song about the rubber ducky is now on constant replay in my head)
~~~
RahXephon:
xI usually refer to him as Thunderchrist, since he’s apparently the savior not only of science, but now of skeptics ravaged by mindless feminism OOGA-BOOGA-BOOGA!
Thunder
Thunder
Thunder
Thunderchrist HO!
~~
chrismorrow @431:
When you find out, let me know please? I’ve been wondering about that for the longest time.
I also wish the ‘allowed tags’ had directions on how to use them. I usually stick with _blockquote_ or _cite_ for quoting others. I’m lost on how to use the _a href_, _abbr title_, _blockquote cite_ and I don’t know what _code_, _del datetime_, or _em_ are for…
~~
Sili:
My impression was the backchannel runs more or less like a collective, so if he’s here, it’s because a majority wanted him.
I think my confusion over his inclusion lies in a misconception I had about FtB. I know there’s not a central message, but I got the impression (anyone who knows better, *please* correct me) that FtB was largely a progressive collection of bloggers. The advancement of social justice, while tackled differently by the various blog hosts, seemed to my eyes to be a common theme amongst many here.
Taslima’s issues (inability to provide adequate citations, generalizations, and lack of skepticism) and Thundercrap’s misogyny laden *opening* post (I wonder if he’s here because he’s an atheist vlogger who possibly has a large number of followers; I personally want little to do with a misogynist ass like that, whether he’s atheist or not), they don’t seem to fit the overall mentality here. I don’t think it’s a huge deal or anything, but the two of them seem to stand out like a sore thumb to me (and while differing views are great, regressive ones are not, IMO).
~~~
Katherine, Caine:
I agree. That one was offensive.
I even clicked on a few of the other memes. Even seemingly innocent ones were offensive (one of the Jesus gif’s I clicked on was just sexist as fuck).
~~~
Sophia:
I giggled a bit at SS Clueless. Thanks. :)
~~~
rorschach :
Dry July sounds like a good idea. I don’t know that I could refrain from drinking for a month. There are times I get stressed out at work, and working behind a bar, my first thought is “I need a shot”. I may try it out for a week though.
~~~
PTI:
Creepier still was how Mom prodded me to act around him. I wish I could rewind back to that point and tell her to stop.
Was she trying to play matchmaker?
@454: As a 44 year old, I’m tempted to tell you to laugh disdainfully and spit on their foolish concept of what “old” is. At least, that’s what my 98 year old great aunt did when I complained about feeling old to her.
Ok, seriously this time: If you’re close enough to them to be able to say this without it being uselessly confrontational and unlikely to make them think, yes, I think it would be worth pointing out that this attitude is screwed up. If for no other reason than because 20somethings should want to feel older. Middle age is the period of power as far as career and consumerism go. Twentysomethings should be looking forward to their 30s-50s, not looking back on their teens with nostalgia. Also, the sex really is better, if only because it takes a couple of decades for the average woman to figure out how to ask for what she wants and sometimes nearly that long to figure out what she wants, besides to please some man.
*nods* okay.
Any advice on how to determine this? Or is that too broad of a question for this format?
Any advice on how to determine this?
Er…could I pass this question off to someone neurotypical?
Rev:
As much as I love Sam Waterston in the amiable drunken boss role, I’ve gotta point out this supercut: Sorkinisms.
Aaron Sorkin just isn’t as clever as everyone wants us to believe.
rorschach:
I just watched the Sell The Vatican video via the link on your blog. I’ve never listened to Sarah Silverman before. Wow, that was funny as hell!
Thanks.
*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*
–o–
For the time being I’m prepared to give Nasreen somewhat more rope (to hang herself?), since her background is far less privileged*, and she may have internalised more misogyny than she herself realises.
* comparatively. She had a forgiving and supporting father, received a good education and had the contacts to be published.
Sophia:
Count me in with those who say that you’re husband’s being an abusive asshole, and while he’s probably not pure evil that’s no reason why you should be expected to put up with his shit.
Louis: I too have to fight constantly against the need to be always right.
I don’t. I’m a teacher.
Do we have anyone like that here?
dianne:
Actually sugar (glucose) is a macronutrient. You can’t live without some source of calories. I agree with your basic point but get finicky about the popular definition of “nutritious”. Sugar and fat are nutrients, they’re just nutrients that we have in an overabundance to the point of toxic effects. And growers/refiners of sugar should stop being corporate welfare cheats.
If I can pick your brain (or any knowledgeable Pharyngulite) for a moment…
Given the wealth of disinformation on the net, are there any sites you recommend for accurate information on HFCS?
I’ve also heard about corn and milk being items that the human body doesn’t digest easily or at all. Sifting through the crap online is so frustrating at times.
Believe it. Grits kill.
Milk is certainly a problem that has only been fixed by genetics in some populations (us pale Northerners who might otherwise starve/lack vitamin D).
There was an infamous court case where the dairyfarmers’ association got away with claiming “Milk is good for every body”. California, I think.
Skeptoid did an episode on HFSC, but I kept yelling at for using chemistriness. It may well be true that all that matters is caloric intake, but metabolism is a complex feedback system, so it may well be that an imbalance of fructose, glucose and sucrose does screw with the body’s equilibrium (I think artificial sweeteners do, because our brains receive the “sweet” signal, but the “calories!” signal never goes off, so we end up even more hungry).
My point is, that whatever the truth, Skeptoid did not help me discover it.
Tony: I think most people can vouch for corn being hard to digest.
RE: milk
A discussion I overheard at work one day mentioned that there is an enzyme that humans produce that allows us to break down milk while we’re young, but as we enter adolescence that enzyme is not produced in our bodies any longer. True? False?
(in the same conversation, someone mentioned that mammals in the wild do not drink milk much-if at all-after they’re weaned from it)
Chas:
but grits and scrambled eggs are so good together!
Oh fer chrissakes, the Vatican really does not understand irony, (either that or the Vatican has a really wicked sense of humor, and we’ve just been missing it).
The Vatican recognizes that they have a PR problem, but rather than correct some of the causes of their PR problems they have hired a Fox News man who is also a member of Opus Dei to make the Vatican look better, more transparent perhaps?, more tolerant perhaps?, less dogmatic perhaps?, more truthful? to we the peoples of earth.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47933125/ns/world_news-europe/#.T-jqZxxkjRy
True; it’s lactase. Lactose intolerance might be better thought of as lactase persistence, and it’s a mutation only available in some populations.
–
Tony:
*Homer drool!*
Damn, I’m hungry.
True. It’s lactase, the enzyme that breaks down the primary carbohydrate in milk (lactose). This cause ‘lactose intolerance’.
However, most people who trace their ancestries back to Northern Europe (and a couple other areas) have inherited the lactose-tolerance mutation that keeps active lactase present in the intestine troughout adulthood.
But that’s the only part of milk that’s ‘hard to digest’–the proteins, lipids, no problem.
My understanding is that this is true for most species of mammals and some populations of humans – specifically, the enzyme is lactase, used to break down the sugar lactose which is characteristic of milk. Some populations of humans continue to produce lactase even after being weaned, and thus are able to digest dairy products even in adulthood. Since most Europeans are in that group, those who don’t have the derived condition of lactase persistence, and instead display the ancestral condition of ceasing lactase production, get labeled as “lactose-intolerant.” It’s NOT true that humans generally aren’t able to digest milk or milk products, though.
(I may be oversimplifying. Anyone else?)
Err…yeah, that. Damnit.
As for fructose vs. glucose, there are differences. Most cells cannot import much fructose, so it all gets handled by the liver. Glucose is transported into most cells thanks to the actions of insulin. And increased circulating glucose triggers insulin secretion, whereas high fructose levels apparently do not.
Once either is inside a cell, it doesn’t matter as they are readily interconverted.
Sucrose is broken into glucose + fructose before absorption so is irrelevant.
Tony: Speaking of Taslima, here’s another post of hers that makes me facepalm. It’s one thing to point out that women are shamed for having bodies in many ways, and one of them is mockery of natural, healthy vaginal odor. It’s another to tell women what they should and shouldn’t do, and especially order them not to use anything “fake.”
I replied with a link to this terrific post I just found. Goddamn it, between her and the Nice Helpful D00dz on Tumblr who think women are just dying to be validated by them, I feel like slapping on five pounds of makeup and spritzing myself with the cheapest, harshest floral cologne I can find.
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
So, what are the health effects of this? From the Wikipedia article, it mentions “non-alcholic fatty liver disease”, I assume because all that extra fructose is going to the liver?
Audley:
grits, scrambled eggs, and proscuitto chips crumbled on top :)
(I just ate some turkey sausage atop a quinoa/taboule mix and now I want to eat again)
Tony:
That was likely the primary motivation. Kind of like how she yelled out “How about a date with the girl wearing the Icebreakers T-shirt!” when I was helping at a tag sale someplace and had to wear said shirt. (Sometimes I wonder if she’d done that shit if my brother had been the one wearing the shirt).
A perfect intermediate stage: Mystery of the flatfish head solved http://phys.org/news/2012-06-mystery-flatfish.html
…so now the creationists have yet another proof of evolution to ignore.
— — — — — — — —
A Fox News correspondent who is a member of Opus Dei and is now working for the Vatican… we have the world’s first real supervillain!
— — — — — — — —
Can we combine the components of “Thunderfoot” and “Rincewind”?
Rincethunder? Footwind?
Oh, yes indeed! Two important factors here:
1) just piss; and
2) on the floor.
I worked night shift at a convenience store that was the first place with a public restroom, and that was open all night, as you came into town from the C&W nightclub. I soon learned never to leave an open can of Comet in there—not unless I wanted to scrub the so-charming attempts of the club habituees’ to pee their names on the walls, then dust them with the Comet for greater visibility.
Also: shit in the sink.
–
Cicely, one of my janitor friends used to work in a school system. In a girls’ bathroom in an elementary school one night, he found the word “SHIT” written in shit on the wall, in large letters.
The other janitor friend used to work in a high school and once found a bowl, as in a serving bowl, full of human feces, set down right in the middle (lengthwise and crosswise) of a corridor.
***
John “maddog” Hall, one of the main contributors to the Linux kernel, came out of the closet yesterday in his tribute to Alan Turing. The language isn’t un-problematic from our POV (e.g., he uses the term “homosexual” instead of gay throughout), but it’s an interesting essay.
Ms. Daisy:
Speaking of Taslima, here’s another post of hers that makes me facepalm. It’s one thing to point out that women are shamed for having bodies in many ways, and one of them is mockery of natural, healthy vaginal odor. It’s another to tell women what they should and shouldn’t do, and especially order them not to use anything “fake.”
I think her tendency to pretty much demand that things should be a certain way (her way) along with the tenuous supporting arguments (with insufficient citation) she offers do not lend themselves to individuality. Likewise, her tendency to frame her “arguments” in her own subjective terms rather than a more universal approach shows that she may benefit from exploring ethics to a greater degree (I’ve stumbled across an Australian site on ethics that I’m thoroughly engrossed in right now: http://www.ethicalrights.com/faqs/80-about-ethics.html)
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks so. Libresco har probably answered any question he’s going to pose at her and is likely dealing with enough bullshit for choosing to become a Catholic. If it were just criticism, whatever, but honestly demanding she answer for what’s clearly a personal choice?
Then again, I’m led to believe she’s friends with Jen McCreight so maybe they’re already well acquainted (enough for this to be acceptable to her anyway). I guess that makes it okish.
Ms. Daisy:
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
Speaking of unsavory restrooms, I’ve heard some women mention that they think women’s restrooms are nastier than men’s. I have probably been in the ladies room a handful of times in the past, and it’s always been after hours as we’re closing and about to leave (usually to double check the general cleanliness) and I’ve not seen nastiness to the degree I see in men’s rooms. I’m inclined to see men as being the messier if for no other reason than when we’re drunk, we can stand up and urinate (of course that’s no guarantee the urine will go where it’s *supposed* to go).
I’ve also heard the claim that women’s restrooms are worse than men’s. I really doubt it, too. Not that some women aren’t slobs (the princesses who hover over the seat and sprinkle pee on it so their dainty behinds won’t touch it absolutely infuriate me), but women are socialized far more than men are to be clean and to consider others.
Ms. Daisy:
As for that bar bathroom…. be lucky it was just piss on the floor. I have a few friends who work or have worked as janitors. You don’t want to hear some of the things they’ve told me.
Speaking of unsavory restrooms, I’ve heard some women mention that they think women’s restrooms are nastier than men’s. I have probably been in the ladies room a handful of times in the past, and it’s always been after hours as we’re closing and about to leave (usually to double check the general cleanliness) and I’ve not seen nastiness to the degree I see in men’s rooms. I’m inclined to see men as being the messier if for no other reason than when we’re drunk, we can stand up and urinate (of course that’s no guarantee the urine will go where it’s *supposed* to go).
[from the link you provided @478]:
That airbrushed shit annoys the crap out of me. I hate that a select group of individuals (probably all men) are dictating to millions of people what women “should” look like.
I had a 3 guests sit at my bar a few weeks back-2 men, 1 woman. The woman noticed a male friend of mine sitting at the bar who is nice looking. She initially tried to get me to play the go-between, which I politely decline to do (this isn’t 3rd grade any more). When I advised her to try talking to him herself, her reply was that she didn’t have any makeup on and she didn’t look her best. I told her she looked fine the way she was, and that her ‘non-makeup look’ is probably closer to her real look (as opposed to caked on mascara, eyeshadow, lipstick, etc). She got my point and wound up talking to the guy on her own.
More anecdotes about the young Romney:
“Romney reportedly carried out fake gangster hit” http://freethoughtblogs.com/zingularity/2012/06/25/romney-reportedly-carried-out-fake-gangster-hit/
and http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/25/shop-owners-recall-more-teen-romney-pranks-fake-stickup-impersonating-firefighter/
That’s not an entirely generalizable statement, but in this case it probably works. Of course, this may reflect my personal upbringing moreso than anything else, given the rather unique (for an American) socialization I experienced.
PTI:
(Sometimes I wonder if she’d done that shit if my brother had been the one wearing the shirt).
Too many women are still expected to “find a nice man to settle down with and become a human incubator”. Gosh, it must be upsetting to proponents of that crap that some women might want to choose another path to take in life-i.e. of *their* choosing.
birgerjohanssen:
how about THUNDERWIND?
Given all the toxic air he’s spewing, perhaps you don’t want to stand downwind…the smell may get thunderous.
Tony: I rather like Thunderfap.
Oh, sure. They should definitely invite some “scientific” racists, homophobes, antisemites, a handful of Holocaust deniers, a few more sexists and corporate tools like Penn Jillette, Pat Condell, some fascists,…, and maybe re-extend their invitation to Abbie Smith. A celebration of freethought, where people championing the status quo are given a platform and those of us in the groups they hurt can just deal with it. Furthermore, PZ’s said that there’s a committee, which to me implies that they don’t see it as their joint; and frankly, I don’t consider that I can only have valid expectations of people I pay.
You’re speaking from privilege here, and it’s not the first time. I’m fine with no mission statement, and I’m happy that they’ve invited some bloggers I don’t care for andor with whom I often disagree. But I think a basic commitment to decency* and honesty in all forms should be a bare minimum for consideration. In some important respects, this community is less progressive than portions of the freethought world of more than a century ago. There are few here, for example, consistently challenging corporate power and corporate “science” or imperialism (much less from a radical perspective) or fighting for, e.g., animal rights. Instead, we’re often arguing with the rightwing, and the community is skewed in that direction. It’s OK with me that they’re basically for the most part liberal blogs, but don’t think for a moment that this site or its larger network encompass the full range of freethought today.
*And yes, that does include not being hostile to feminism, and PZ’s said that their quota for anti-feminists is zero (in theory, at least).
Chunderwind?
A.R.:
That’s not an entirely generalizable statement, but in this case it probably works. Of course, this may reflect my personal upbringing moreso than anything else, given the rather unique (for an American) socialization I experienced.
Women= cooking, cleaning, baby making may not be as widely embraced as it once was, but there are still many people (at least in the US) that think this is precisely their “job”.
SC:
but don’t think for a moment that this site or its larger network encompass the full range of freethought today.
Do you have some recommendations for other freethought sites? I’m rather curious to see the broader range of freethought you speak of.
Here’s one I just found at random. :)
This is not “my” network. Ed Brayton has the special responsibility of managing finances, but otherwise, it really is a community of equals…which is why I say there is no procedure for kicking anyone out, nor do I want one. I also have no greater power than anyone else here.
We have a committee that evaluates prospective bloggers that everyone can nominate. We also have a document that allows us to tally up the pluses and minuses of various candidates. It kind of bubbles there until someone gets particularly enthusiastic about a blogger and then invitations go out.
It’s not very formal.