Episode CCCVIII: Watercolor is a nice medium for cephalopods


Ooh, so pretty.

(Episode CCCVII: Flamboyant emergence.)

Comments

  1. Nutmeg says

    A.R. – Sometimes I wish I did! Then maybe my feet would finally be warm. If I were truly ectothermic I’d be 22C right now.

  2. says

    Esteleth, I KNOW that, they are harder than babies to cook! It seems so simple, yet 2 hours basting the little one is easy peasy, (carrots and onions and peas, (oh, my)), but dried beans have defeated me every time.
    ++++++++++++
    Daisy Cutter, you deliberately edited what Atkins wrote to project your version. That’s Breitbarting. Just link to what he wrote, you don’t have to selectively edit it.

  3. cicely ("Intriguingly Odd") says

    Cicely, try looking up the original use of Lysol.
    You will have a physical reaction.

    I’ve already seen it (thank you, Cracked.com!), and yes, reacted physically. And again, just now, in remembering it.

    For anyone who wants a “physical reaction”, that article is here.
    *cringe & wince*

  4. A. R says

    Zugswang: The words “drink” and “santorum” should never appear in the same sentence, unless E. coli is also mentioned.

  5. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Hmpth.

    Tonight was an ordinary Monday night. Watched NCIS, watched a few flamewars go down (oh, reddit, never change), read the entire archive of Oglaf, bit off three toenails.

    Most mundane.

  6. A. R says

    The Sailor: As the one of the most Vanilla people on the planet, I too wish I had never Googled ATM and clicked on the UD link.

  7. chigau (√-1) says

    cheezwiz
    People are actually watching the TV!
    Madybe I should go get one of them hidefdijitty boxes?

  8. Zugswang says

    @ A.R.:

    The words “drink” and “santorum” should never appear in the same sentence, unless E. coli is also mentioned.

    I think you could say the same about “Rick” and “Santorum”, after Dan Savage redefined his first name, as well.

  9. Pteryxx says

    In other news, Morgan has decided that she wants to read TET.

    Day 231. The human continues to evince fascination with the hypnosis device. While the object is capable of producing flickering images and sounds, most of the human’s time is spent focusing intently upon row after row of small black antlike figures. I hypothesize that these marks entrance humans into a state of intense concentration punctuated by bursts of random emotion, similar to catnip. However, study as I may, the mechanism of action eludes me. Someday, screen, I will know your secrets…

  10. A. R says

    Pork pie!

    Filling:
    1.5 kg pork shoulder, diced
    1 large onion, diced
    1.5 tablespoon fresh sage, chopped
    0.5 tablespoon thyme
    1 teaspoon allspice
    salt and pepper to taste

    Original Aspic Recipe (Tastes Better)

    3 pigs trotters
    1 large onion, quartered
    1/2 large carrot, split and finely chopped
    3 stalks celery, roughly chopped, with leaves
    1 star anise (optional)
    1 cloves garlic, macerated
    water to cover by at least 1.25 inch
    salt and pepper
    Place aspic ingredients in large saucepan with the cold water, ensuring that all ingredients are covered by the water. Boil, reduce to simmer, cook 1 1/2 – 2 hours, skimming residue layer from top. Add water to ensure that ingredients are always covered. Strain through muslin or a very fine strainer and set aside.
    Easier Aspic (Based on the Liver and Kidney Aspic from last month, not guaranteed to work)
    2 ½-2 2/3 cups cold veal stock
    1 large onion, quartered
    1/2 large carrot, split and finely chopped
    3 stalks celery, roughly chopped, with leaves
    1 star anise (optional)
    1 cloves garlic, macerated
    40 g gelatin
    3/4 teaspoon salt

    Put all the ingredients into a large, clean saucepan and whisk over low heat until the mixture forms a thick froth on the top and starts to come to the boil. Stop whisking immediately and let the mixture rise to the top of the saucepan, taking care not to let it boil over. As soon as it reaches the top, remove the saucepan from the heat and wait for the mixture to subside. Return the pan to the heat and allow the mixture to rise and subside once more in the same way. Repeat the process once more, then set aside for 5 minutes.
    Meanwhile, scald a large bowl, a sieve and a large piece of muslin or a clean tea towel (tea towel was used in the original) with boiling water. Drain both bowl and sieve well and wring out the muslin or tea towel. Line the sieve with the piece of muslin, folded double, or the tea towel, and place it over the bowl. Taking care not to break up the froth, pour the aspic jelly carefully into the sieve and leave undisturbed to strain into the bowl. Do not press or squeeze. Cool the aspic and use immediately.
    Case/Crust (You will need to make enough to line 12 individual pie pans, the book gives this recipe separately)
    6 oz flour
    6 fl oz water
    3 oz lard
    Dash salt

    Making a well in the center, sift flour and salt into a bowl. Melt lard in water over low heat, once this has melted, bring to boil. Pour this mixture into the well, and quickly mix with a wooden spoon. Knead until smooth. Use while warm.

    Method
    Gently heat some oil in a large, heavy saucepan, and cook the onion until barely soft, do not allow to color. Raise heat to high, and sear the pork. Do not cook through. Next, add sage and thyme with constant stirring. Remove contents to bowl and set aside. Line high-sided (preferably straight sided as well) individual pie pans with freshly prepared casing dough, bake empty at 360-365°F until pale golden (about 15-20 minutes), set these aside to cool. Cover with a towel and set aside overnight. It is best to make the cases the day before. Heat aspic in saucepan, adding filling, simmering until pork is tender. Add water if the pork becomes uncovered. Strain the aspic, place pork and stock into separate bowls chill overnight. Next day, fill pie cases. Cut tops for pies and punch a hole in the middle of each with the end of a small funnel. Brush edges of each pie with egg wash and pinch tops around edges to seal. Paint tops with egg wash and bake at 360-365°F until golden brown. Remove fat from set aspic jelly, and re-melt (do not boil). Cool baked pies then using the small funnel, pour in the aspic to fill each pie. Remove spillover with a clean towel or paper towel. Allow to cool.

  11. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Morgan may well have cause to be extra-confused about the mouse, as mine is wireless. So the method of action is a white oblong.

    I have bit off a fifth toenail. I’m going to go get some bandaids, then I think I’m going to bed.

  12. Nutmeg says

    Esteleth: I’m impressed by your flexibility, if somewhat confused. (Yes, I did just try to get my toenails within biting range, without success.) Did you run out of fingernails?

  13. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Nutmeg,
    I do not bite my fingernails (I used to, but I stopped when I was 10 or so). Just my toenails.

    FWIW, I am told that I baffled caregivers for years (starting with the nurse at the maternity ward) by sucking my toes rather than my fingers.

  14. chigau (√-1) says

    re: toenail biting
    I can reach ’em but my teeth aren’t able to bite them off.
    Give us a smile, Esteleth!

  15. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    So… What do you do if you legitimately work really hard on writing a paper, but you overestimated the amount you have to say about your topic? I truly don’t want to pad, but I truly cannot think of anything else to say about my topic right now…

  16. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    Well… if I had an actual thesis, I think that would be easier.
    WAAAAA.
    A lot of the comic themes in the Satyrica are related to masculine inadequacy. Encolpius is really bad at life, and even though Ascyltos is still pretty bad at stuff, he’s better than Encolpius. Also Giton likes to have sex with people.
    That’s pretty much my thesis.

  17. chigau (√-1) says

    boyoboyoboy
    There is some utter, absolute rubbish on youtube.(surprise!)
    I’m talking people uploading totalcrap recordings of totalcrap recordings of totalcrap recordings.
    What are they thinking?

  18. Nutmeg says

    StarStuff: If you’re the one at the microphone, I like your dress. :)

    If I had money, I would totally expand my wardrobe to include everyday dresses. It would be worth it just to confuse the people who are used to seeing me in my standard outfit of jeans, t-shirt, and runners. Plus, dresses look fun.

  19. theophontes 777 says

    chigau (√-1)

    Aaah, I thought you might be on TET.

    But have you looked in on TZT ? (All new and sniny name for TbPPRoSTET.)

    /gratuitous linky

  20. says

    Good morning

    Since recipes are a hot topic at the momen, here’s last night’s
    Leek and Thyme soup

    2lbs of leek, cleaned and chopped into chunks
    1/4 lb of butter
    garlic
    ->lightly fry leeks and garlic in butter for a few minutes
    Add a sprig of thyme
    2 lbs of floury potatoes, diced
    ->add to leeks, salt, cover with water, boil for 20-30 minutes
    Add milk until you have the consistency you want, season.
    Serve with a spounfull of Crème fraiche.

    Optional: Fry some bacon and add on top

    +++++

    Now, the coloniser comes in and sets up administrative districts etc, and the locals become “people of district X” = “the X people”.

    This can happen even within the colonizer’s own country.
    My own state which has now become a “strong identity” for the people here is the result of this area being shuffled between Germany and France over the last century.
    Before 1871 the divisions would run acording to the rule of different noblemen or church districts.
    Even the border between Bavaria and Prussia would run through this region and we’re not near of either of them.
    So, in the end we developed quite a “fuck you we’re us” mentality. Although the greater identity was always “German”, it took quite a dint to notice that we were actually not much more than bargaining mass.
    And to this day, many people in the rest of Germany think that our native tongue is French…

  21. theophontes 777 says

    @ Gilliel

    Are you an Alsatian? (Cycling through Europe, I noticed a huge difference between the (earlier) France part of my trip and cycling through Alsace. (I breathed a sigh of relief… ebil, I know.)

    @ Pteryxx

    …so now we can be quantum threadrupt in two places at once?

    There can be no threadcruption in TZT. It is the land of milk and honey. (Due to some minor issues concerning the legality of our Universal Declaration of Independence, I cannot point you to the Wiki at this stage.)

  22. says

    Kid’s 5th birthday. Took him and ex on a steam train ride through the hills, that ends at a little lake, for picnic and the like. Turns out we picked the day that the place was invaded by killer wasps. Rangers were trying to find the nest, I got stung protecting the kid, and it was all rather interesting in an Alfred Hitchcock way. Kid loved it of course. Amazing how tissues can swell.

  23. says

    I’m disappointed with Alternet, they are now publishing apologists of fluffy accomodationists, this guy John L Murphy is so gushing over our friend de Botton, it’s cringeworthy :

    Atheist Finds Religion: Can Non-Believers Embrace Parts of Religious Tradition?

    Still, he reminds his readers at the close of this diligently illustrated, devotedly skeptical, but ultimately encouraging guide: “Religions are intermittently too useful, effective and intelligent to be abandoned to the religious alone.”

    Goodness gracious.

  24. says

    theophontes
    Nay, the Alsace is French (nowadays).
    But they have a similar history. They were German for a long time, and if you went from there to the Black Forest you might have noticed the similarities to that region.
    Alsace and Lorraine were German for a long part of their history but changed nationalities, too.
    After 1871 they were German, after 1918 they became French. When Germany occupied France, they were not treated like the rest of the occupied country but integrated into the Reich.
    Which, of course meant that after 45 every attempt of those regions to identify with their Germanic heritage was viewed with suspicion.
    Even a few years ago Paris pulled the trick of declaring that, since Alsatian was a German dialect it wasn’t entitled to means from the funds for the preservation of minority languages.
    I’m from the Saarland, which is a German state. We’re more like Lorraine in France: mining, steelwork, heavy industry. The very thing you really want to have if you’re a warmongering, imperialist state at the end of the 19th and the first half of the 20th century.
    Also the very thing you’d like to forget about now that those industries are in decline.
    We’re not pretty like Alsace. We’re grubby.
    Actualy there is now a pretty successfull attempt to strengthen the common identity of the larger region Saar-Lor-Lux.
    Because we really have more in common with people from Lorraine and Luxemburg than say Hamburg or Munich

  25. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    I’m disappointed with Alternet, they are now publishing apologists of fluffy accomodationists

    Pfft.

    I was disappointed with Alternet before it was cool (when they started publishing C4SS, an anarcho-capitalist group).

  26. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    Aww Rorschach *careful hugs*

    In the context of a library record, the hell does “c.2 Checked Out” mean? Is it that there are two copies and one of them is checked out?

  27. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Ing and Esteleth,

    One bible quote I am still very fond of might work

    “Let we who are strong lend a shoulder to those who are not”

    Well, if you’re willing to quote Karl Marx, you could use “Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen.”

    (From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.)

    I’d rather not.

    I like the other phrase because it is phrased not as a demand for hand out or cry from bellow but one of solidarity of the speaker saying “let each of us do what we can to help”.

    I think Marx’s idea is the latter, but partial as I am to Marx, I guess I’m looking for ideas which have a broader appeal. American liberals in particular are not eager to be identified with recognizably Marxist slogans.

    +++++
    But, hm. Libertarians have only had their slogan since 1961. For all the lies and distortions told in the Wikipedia article, it doesn’t in fact appear in anything logically equivalent to its current form until Ayn Rand. Yet it’s been very catchy.

    There’s something in it which reminds me of karma, this notion that if I do not “initiate” “force” then I will not accrue responsibility.

    It does seem that, by piggybacking on some cognitive biases like those that cause unwillingness to flip the switch in the trolley problem, they have stumbled on a very attractive meme, maybe especially attractive in apocalyptic times: if the world is getting worse then at least it’s not my fault.

  28. keenacat says

    Giliell,

    sounds awesome. I love thyme, it is my most favourite spice. I’ll keep that in a shiny new file called “Pharyngula delicacies”. If recipes are a “thing” in TET, I trust it will fill up nicely.

    I will share a stout bread recipe. It is full of win and works everytime. I make it from “Dunkelbier” or “Schwarzbier”, but I think a stout would be good for those not located in germany.
    Hints and variations will follow under the recipe.

    Dunkelbierbrot
    (stout bread)

    Ingredients
    250g whole wheat flour
    400g all-purpose flour
    100g rye flour
    2 sachets of dry yeast
    1 1/2 tablespoons salt
    1 teaspoon fennel, ground
    1 teaspoon honey
    300 ml stout, warmed
    200ml warm water
    flour for dusting your work surface
    two baking sheets

    Mix flours, yeast, salt and fennel in a large bowl. Add honey, stout and water and work into a smooth dough, takes about 5 minutes with a dough hook or a bit longer by hand.
    Cover dough and let rise in a warm area until the volume has doubled, somewhere around 30 to 60 minutes.
    Put a deep baking sheet filled with water on the bottom of your oven. Preheat oven to 220°C (430°F).
    Dust your work surface with flour. Knead your dough for a short time until it has deflated.
    Form a round loaf on a parchment-lined baking sheet, cover and let rise another 30 minutes or a tad longer.
    Cut rhombi into the top of your loaf (a serrated knife works best).
    Bake at 220°C (430°F) for 10 minutes. Turn heat down to 200°C (390°F) and bake for another 35 minutes.
    Let cool and enjoy slathered with butter and topped with a nice cured ham.

    Hints and variations
    Don’t fret over the flours. I’ve used all-purpose flour for it before and it was good. I’ve also used spelt flour and it came out awesome.

    You can easily sub the beer for water and/or milk.

    Fennel is optional, of course, but it’s a staple in quite a few german bread specialities and it adds a little something. Something awesome.

    For a nice walnut bread, add three to four generous handfuls of chopped walnuts while kneading for the second time. Walnuts will rock your socks off.

    It takes well to being studded with chopped chillies.

    Make it now. You won’t regret it and it’s a good beginners bread as well.

  29. keenacat says

    (Btw, the water-filled baking sheet is for helping the crust along. You can do without but the crust will be soft and thin.)

  30. theophontes 777 says

    @ Gilliel

    Nay, the Alsace is French (nowadays).

    Of course, that is just my brain being rusty.

    I cycled down from Delft via Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Germany to Basel in Switzerland, then around the edge of Switzerland via Liechtenstein and Chur to Northern Italy to Lugano (I just had to see Campion d’Italia). Did I mention the mountains? There were lots and lots of very tall mountains.

    Anyhow, the difference between Alsace and France (hard to believe it is part of France) was mindbogling. France looked like Mordor (the industrial valleys and riverbanks where shocking) compared to the beautifully cared for countryside of Alsace. (Which flashed past me I came down Ballon d’Alsace at breakneck speed.)

    I should try and plot it out on a map some day. I did the whole route alone, sleeping rough in forests and next to freeways.

  31. says

    Jesus H Christ ! I don’t even…How did Shane turn into a zombie so quickly ? Good shot by the kid. Is it next week yet ?

  32. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    How did Shane turn into a zombie so quickly ? Good shot by the kid.

    what hey what no *covers ears*

  33. says

    theophontes
    LOL
    Looking at your route I guess that you went through Lorraine to the Alsace, which means that you went from one of the regions with a German history and culture to the other one and mainly experienced the difference between the industrial area in decline and the agricultural area starting to grow into a tourist region.
    The mark on this map is Lorraine, so that’s probably where you passed through.
    The contrast between Alsace and France is better seen when you travel south-west from the Alsace in direction towards Dijon.

    keenacat
    That file will full pretty quickly.
    The bread sounds tasty.
    I am the least patriotic person on planet earth, but bread is really something Germans excell at.
    Sure, you need the French next door to make you some cheese to go with it…

  34. says

    CC, oops, I’m sorry, I thought everyone there already watched it… Of course I get my information purely from what others say about it on the net (I think they call it “fangroups”), seeing that this episode wont screen here until 2014 or so. I can’t wait to actually watch it.
    You could always email me for more info on what they say about it on the net I guess.

  35. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    Hehe. I’m just a whole season behind, that’s all. Given that,I have no reasonable expectation not to be spoiled :P

  36. says

    I love blogging, I really do. But it can be daunting. My most read post today : A hastily scribbled together article on retinitis pigmentosa from 3 or so months ago. Closely followed by my link to Rebecca Watson’s video about moving house from last year.

    *sigh*

  37. keenacat says

    I am unable to find this Meyers person via Google. Can anybody point me to his blog or something?

  38. Cassandra Caligaria (Cipher), OM says

    Hee hee hee :D

    K. I have translation, but on the other hand, it’s four in the morning and I’ve reached the random-fits-of-misdirected-emotional agitation phase of being tired. That means it’s time for bed, regardless of translation or papers.

  39. says

    Squigit

    So would you consider ethnography to be appropriation?

    Giliell

    This can happen even within the colonizer’s own country.
    My own state which has now become a “strong identity” for the people here is the result of this area being shuffled between Germany and France over the last century.

    Ultimately all identities are constructed. An American historian whose name I keep forgetting looked at how national identities on the Balkans (and in earlier work, elsewhere in Europe) came into being.

    I myself am quite familiar with the phenomenon you describe (even though my father was from Berlin, I grew up elsewhere), and there is no doubt that border regions and smaller European nations, but I would still think that this is on a different level from the relationship of coloniser and colonised as in the Middle East, Africa or Asia.

  40. says

    Oops, some how I forgot the bit directed to Squigit

    So would you consider ethnography to be appropriation?

    Yes, that’s how I understand Edward Said as I quoted him in 434. He doesn’t deny orientalist scholarship can be good, but ultimately they are still part of a system that is inherently imperialist. That doesn’t mean orientalists (now in the traditional sense of “scholar studying the Orient”) or as in your example ethnographers, should stop studying their subject matter, but that they need to be mindful of this problem.

    Even science and so-called universal values such as democracy and human dignity can be charged with this problem. I’m not ready to go there because to me science has always been neutral, but to some post-colonial critics, that’s a position of western privilege, as the scientific method and philosophy as it is stands today can be identified as western (and I do agree that the international scientific community is largely led by scientists located in the West). But until I actually have read the writings of post-colonial critics of science, I will stand by my conviction that science in itself is culturally neutral.

  41. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    Happy Belated Birthday, PZed.

    Happy Monkey to all.

    I am back from Maine (where I visited my Mainiac relatives (retired Park Ranger father, retired Art Therapist mother, and current wine disturber and samoyed sister)). I am totally threadrupt and shall not even attempt to DDMFM the entire thread. Instead, I will be appropriately lazy: what did I miss?

  42. says

    Ogvorbis,

    hope you had a nice trip.

    Some of us have been having a discussion on orientalism, which also touched upon the role of historians.

    The word “historian” is used only five times on this thread (now six with this post), so it should be easy to glance over if you’re interested in the debate…

  43. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    I am unable to find this Meyers person via Google. Can anybody point me to his blog or something?

    Try Googling “Meiers” instead. Mayhap that will help.

    Some of us have been having a discussion on orientalism, which also touched upon the role of historians.

    I am confused. Why would a discussion over which direction East is on a map involve historians? Unless one is discussing the history of cartography, of course.

    Oriental history, save for when it intersects with occidental history (whether on purpose or occidentally), is a huge gaping weak spot in my corpus of knowledge.

    And the trip was enjoyable. My parents were remarkably sane for a change. And it was quite warm in Maine. We even went out to Sand Beach for about 2 hours and did not freeze our arses off (though it was very windy, and there were four to eight foot waves crashing on the beach (lousy for photos, though — looking right at the sun)).

    —-

    And a puzzler sent to me by a friend:

    “An electric train is traveling northwest at ninety-five miles per hour, and the wind is blowing southwest at ninety-five miles per hour. In which direction does the smoke blow?”

  44. says

    Ogvorbis,

    I know it was meant in jest, but it’s about the fact that western historians get to define the discourse about the history of the East by way of their scholarship. This also filters back to the Orient itself, where scholars cannot ignore the scholarship coming out of the Occident, while the converse is not necessarily true.

  45. says

    I need to vent:

    I really am afraid that the PA Billboard Debacle will now be the racism equivalent of EG.. (unless I’ve missed some other incidents in the past, it’s only been a couple years I’ve been following comments on Pharyngula)

    All these racist atheists coming out of the woodwork, gah.

    And fuck the American Atheists.

    Someone should start a campaign calling on them to fucking change their name..

  46. keenacat says

    The primary cause of Global Warming is not what people think, (pollutants) but rather Global Warming is primarily created through the Aging of Gravity. An “Inverted Spin” is forever increasing the pressure level inside our Earth’s Core. This forever increasing pressure is raising the boiling point at the Earth’s Core. When you raise the boiling point of anything you increase the temperature. We are primarily warming up from the inside out. The same thing is taking place inside our Sun as well. It too is getting warmer as it rotates “Counterclockwise”, which in turn is warming our Earth from the outside in.

    Breadstick Jeebus.

  47. says

    BBC World Service, very weird interview with some kind of modern Muslim guy advocating the right to polygamy in the west and babbling about how women have lost their femininity due to feminism. Why on earth doesn’t the BBC reporter go after that kind of bullshit? Just too polite eh.

    Also, more assholery from Gary McCoy. Poor sap got some hate mail and death threats.

    http://cartoonblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/12/10647378-mccoy-responds-to-critics-of-controversial-fluke-cartoon

  48. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    I know it was meant in jest, but it’s about the fact that western historians get to define the discourse about the history of the East by way of their scholarship.

    No, it was not meant in jest. I really do acknowledge my ignorance of oriental history. I am occidentalicentric. I have never claimed otherwise. I was making a statement about myself. Me. No others.

    Nice to be back.

  49. says

    Welcome back, Ogvorbis.

    Pelamun: “I really am afraid that the PA Billboard Debacle will now be the racism equivalent of EG.” I think you’re right, even if the comment count isn’t anywhere near as high.

    The silver lining is that is or will be a wake-up call, as EG was, to many.

    Quoting Gary McCoy:

    One more thing… it struck me as deliciously ironic that many of the tolerant, compassionate liberals who took issue with my supposedly portraying Miss Fluke as a “slut” and “prostitute”, and with my lack of civility, did so by calling me every vulgar name in the book and making death threats against me (The latter emails go on file at my local police department).

    First of all, note the “Miss.” Outside of situations in which a woman requests to be called that, or perhaps a very young girl is addressed as such, it is the reliable sign of a misogynist who is unhappy that women’s identities are no longer attached to those of men.

    Second, note the civility trolling. It’s okay to be nasty so long as certain unghodly words are avoided.

  50. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    First of all, note the “Miss.” Outside of situations in which a woman requests to be called that, or perhaps a very young girl is addressed as such, it is the reliable sign of a misogynist who is unhappy that women’s identities are no longer attached to those of men.

    Mmhmm.

    Some time ago, I learned that people who address me as “Miss [Lastname]” are frequently assholes. I actually ran into someone who complained that the use of “Ms.” is confusing, as you don’t know anything about the woman in question.

    I said, “Well, yes, that’s true. But what do you know about a man by knowing that you should preface his name with ‘Mr.’?”

    He responded that that was his point and thanked me for agreeing with him.

  51. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Why on earth doesn’t the BBC reporter go after that kind of bullshit? Just too polite eh.

    Have you ever heard a BBC reporter go after any kind of bullshit during an interview? It was my impression that this was generally the BBC’s style, not even something specially granted to religious topics.

  52. says

    oh, thanks for calling my attention to that.

    I had been under the impression that in English, the Mrs/Miss question had been resolved by making the designation for “unmarried woman” the general one, unlike in German (or recently again tried by the French government, or even in Taiwanese govt documents) where the designation for “married woman” had been generalised.

    I note that Ms. is actually pronounced with a voiced fricative at the end, and thus differently from Miss.

  53. says

    Have you ever heard a BBC reporter go after any kind of bullshit during an interview? It was my impression that this was generally the BBC’s style, not even something specially granted to religious topics.

    Well, in this case the reporter even laughed and made some stupid joke. YMMV, I think it was in the Global News 13 March podcast, the earlier one.

  54. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Some time ago, I found an essay (and now I can’t find it, of course) from the 1800s about how Ms. is like the greatest thing ever and people should always use it.

    Why? Clarity of language, courtesy, and proper treatment of ladies.

    The author said that if you meet a new person – and are only told her first and last name and you can’t see if she’s wearing a ring (gloves, for example) – you’re left in a bind.

    You can’t, after all, just address her by her given name (this is the 1800s, after all). So you have to guess. If you guess right, hooray. Guessing wrong is insulting. You also can’t bluntly ask, or not address her by her name at all. Hoping that she’ll drop a reference into her conversation about her husband, or mention flat-out that she’s single is more than likely vain.

    So: use Ms.

  55. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    He responded that that was his point and thanked me for agreeing with him.

    Ha! Are you sure you’re not living in a comedy, circa 1900?

  56. theophontes 777 says

    @ life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ

    It was my impression that this was generally the BBC’s style, not even something specially granted to religious topics.

    The BBC’s gushing over the pope during his visit to Blighty, pushed me over the edge. They have been replaced by Al Jazeera in chezphontes.

  57. says

    theophontes,

    They have been replaced by Al Jazeera in chezphontes.

    Unfortunately, Al Jazeera doesn’t have good daily podcasts. But I looked at what iTunes had to offer and subscribed to “Al Jazeera World”, one-hour documentaries showcasing films from across their network.

    But are they so much better on religion (I don’t expect the MSM to take a critical stance on the respective dominant religion)? I couldn’t imagine they’d take a critical stance towards Islam, but then I’d be glad to stand corrected.

  58. says

    Ah, yes
    My mother asked my sister “how her stubborn mule” was.
    So she still seems to think that her script according to which I calm down, become reasonable again an appologize while she can then graciously forgive me because she loves me is still in place.
    I think she’s in for a surprise.

    pelamun

    I myself am quite familiar with the phenomenon you describe (even though my father was from Berlin, I grew up elsewhere), and there is no doubt that border regions and smaller European nations, but I would still think that this is on a different level from the relationship of coloniser and colonised as in the Middle East, Africa or Asia.

    For sure it is.
    The biggest point I’d say is that race was never a factor.
    We were never romanticised (unlike the Irish, for example, although that is a complicated topic) and most importantly it doesn’t hold any power nowadays. The ignorant idiot who thinks that my mother tongue is French can’t hurt me.
    It was different for the generations of my grandparents and greatgrandparents who had to witness how their lives were bargained with by the powerfull and whose lives were seriously impacted by the fact that other people simply decided about their legal status.
    But you can still see the influence today:
    People from here are much less willing to leave the place and to move to another state, and we are very self-conscious about our identity.
    “Fremdschämen” is kind of a local hobby whenever any of our politicians appears on national TV and most people wish for the ground to swallow them up when you say that you’re from the Saarland and people react with “Oh, like Heinz Becker!”

  59. says

    my current English language news audiocast line-up:

    NPR (also APM, PRI): Story of the Day, World Story of the Day, Talk of the Nation, It’s all Politics (my very first podcast, from my pre-iPod days), also Marketplace, PRI’s the World: the Latest Edition.
    Radio Australia: Asia Pacific, Pacific Beat
    BBC: Global News, Africa Today

    Anything I’ve been missing?

  60. Rey Fox says

    OgV: Weclome back. We’ve been holding down the fort. Here’s a quick update, we found something else that Mensa atheists don’t get: Racism.

    Katherine: Do iiiiiiit.

  61. keenacat says

    I think she’s in for a surprise.

    Go you!
    If she loves you, she should not be hurting you.

  62. opposablethumbs, que le pouce enragé mette les pouces says

    My mother asked my sister “how her stubborn mule” was.
    So she still seems to think that her script according to which I calm down, become reasonable again an appologize while she can then graciously forgive me because she loves me is still in place.
    I think she’s in for a surprise.

    Yes. Hang in there!!!!!!

  63. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    @Ogvorbis:

    Is the train currently on fire?

    All needed information is in the question.

  64. Dhorvath, OM says

    Giliell,
    Yes, a surprise sounds like exactly what she will get. Take care of yourself, she isn’t anxious to help.

  65. says

    From Ms daisy Cutter’s #840 link Globe & Mail article on Cheney’s fears:

    The upshot, he said, is that discussion over American policy on such issues as Guantanamo Bay or the Iraq war is being silenced.

    You lost that conversation because you’re talking about a group of thugs,” Mr. Ruppert said.

    I agree, we’re talking about a group of thugs.

  66. carlie says

    Katherine – you can do it! :) You know a lot of people going, right? They can set up their patented Super Shield of Asshole Deflection around you.

  67. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    The upshot, he said, is that discussion over American policy on such issues as Guantanamo Bay or the Iraq war is being silenced.

    “You lost that conversation because you’re talking about a group of thugs,” Mr. Ruppert said.

    But it is Cheney’s ilk that is doing the silencing!

    @Ogvorbis:

    Ahh, okay.

    Then I have no idea.

    Here was my answer:

    “Well, it depends. Is the power coming from a coal-fired electrical plant? In that case, it blows whatever direction the wind is blowing at the plant. If hydroelectric, wind, solar, nuclear, or geothermal, there is no smoke. If a gas plant, the smoke will not be visible, but it will still blow whatever the current wind direction at the plant is.”

  68. says

    OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

    I’m giving a briefing in little over an hour to a really important group of people at another department and I have to represent my unit and my company and although I’ve been much less anxious about the whole thing than I usually am I’m about ready to hit super-freakout-mode right now help help help.

    *faints from lack of oxygen*

  69. says

    Life is full of strange surprises. Just as we are discussing orientalism here, one of my teacher friends asked for my advice about them planning to have fifth graders perform Hans Christian Andersen’s Nattergalen. It’s about the Chinese and Japanese emperors and involves nightingales, natural and mechanic.

  70. Muse says

    Kat – if you really want, you could always change at breakfast. And if need me, I’ll metro down to your stop and come up with you.

  71. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    I microwaved my lunch, brought it back to my desk, sat down

    …and picked up my pen and tried to eat with it.

    *facepalm*

  72. carlie says

    Katherine – oh, that is a different issue. Could you take a backpack and do a Superman outfit change in a.. fuck. Dammit. Maybe Natalie has some ideas on how to find a place to change?

    Breathe, breathe, you’ll be fine on your presentation. You’re awesome, and you know more about what you’re speaking about than anyone else in the room does, and so they won’t even know it if you mess up, and you’ll be great.

  73. says

    Life is full of strange surprises. Just as we are discussing orientalism here, one of my teacher friends asked for my advice about them planning to have fifth graders perform Hans Christian Andersen’s Nattergalen. It’s about the Chinese and Japanese emperors and involves nightingales, natural and mechanic.

    I remember that fondly…
    But probably completly fucked up in terms of Orientalism….

    Katherine
    I’m not quite sure if I get the drift, but probably people would also be OK with walking you home.
    Or you could “go stealth” again and change before leaving

  74. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    help help help.

    Katherine Lorraine, 2 shots of single-malt island Scotch should be dribbling out of your USB port in about 2 minutes. Make sure there is a glass underneath (otherwise, your work area will reek of a pleasant smokey peatness and seaweed).

    You know your shit. You’ll most likely do just fine (of course, I speak to people for a living, so I tend to be rather blase about the whole thing, so take my encouragement with a grain of NaCl).

  75. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    But Oggie, how much is a ‘grain’?
    Can you express that in mg?

  76. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    @ Oggie; Electric trains don’t make smoke unless you add the pellet to the smoke stack.

    Or if you burn out the motor (which I did, long ago, with an HO Athearn GP38). Of course, then they aren’t actually moving . . . .

    And I just realized that, on braking, there will be smoke coming from the brakes.

    Damn!

  77. Dhorvath, OM says

    Katherine,
    Hugs and confidence coming your way. Don’t drink that whiskey yet, slurred speech won’t help so save it for after.

  78. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    But Oggie, how much is a ‘grain’?
    Can you express that in mg?

    One grain is, I think, 65 mg.

  79. chigau (√-1) says

    Esteleth
    After a long session of reading a ebook, I always try to make my computer do stuff by poking the monitor screen.

  80. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Yes, yes.
    So, I put my fork in my pen cup and tried to eat with my pen.
    It didn’t work very well.

    Also, I spilled DAPI on my hands.

    HANDS OF BLUE! MUAHAHAHA.

    *kills all of you*

  81. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Wait, there needs to be two Hands of Blue people.

    How ’bout it, Oggie? DAPI, Hoescht, or Alcian Blue? What’s your style?

  82. says

    Some time ago, I found an essay (and now I can’t find it, of course) from the 1800s about how Ms. is like the greatest thing ever and people should always use it.

    Why? Clarity of language, courtesy, and proper treatment of ladies.

    The author said that if you meet a new person – and are only told her first and last name and you can’t see if she’s wearing a ring (gloves, for example) – you’re left in a bind.

    You can’t, after all, just address her by her given name (this is the 1800s, after all). So you have to guess. If you guess right, hooray. Guessing wrong is insulting. You also can’t bluntly ask, or not address her by her name at all. Hoping that she’ll drop a reference into her conversation about her husband, or mention flat-out that she’s single is more than likely vain.

    So: use Ms.

    Esteleth, this made me smile! One of the first surprises I had from my father back in the late 70’s was his adoption of “Ms” in his professional life. He was a lawyer, a fairly conservative profession and as a teenager I assumed that my old dad had to be the fuddiest duddy on the planet when it came to “women’s lib”. To hear him defend the title “Ms” and persuade his law partners to adopt it was an eye-opener to say the least! I was a teenaged wannabe feminist who was still inclined to roll my eyes at the title “Ms”, I am sorry to admit. The argument my father used to persuade his partners was similar to the one above. At home, he added that it was unfair and disrespectful to women, in his view, that their honor titles specifically designated their marital status. Further, a boy was called “Master Jon Doe”, while a girl was called “Miss Jane Doe”, but after a certain age (16 or so) a young man became “Mr. John Doe” while a young woman remained “Miss Jane Doe” until she became a “Mrs”. These are things I hadn’t noticed myself until I heard my father point them out. He wasn’t generally a feminist – but he was fair and logical.

  83. chigau (√-1) says

    I’m sitting outside enjoying the warm sun and there is a jackrabbit in my garden.
    It’s huge!
    The cat went back inside.

  84. jamesproffitt says

    New article making the rounds in the “pro-life” circle. Man they are having a field day with this one . I guess it’s a good discussion to have if you forward personhood as a primary argument for abortion, although I’ve always thought a woman having complete control over her body was a more important point.

  85. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    How ’bout it, Oggie? DAPI, Hoescht, or Alcian Blue? What’s your style?

    Er, no. Norwegian Blue.

    Alcian Blue has the perk of being non-toxic.

    Well, Norwegian Blues have the advantage of being non-living.

  86. keenacat says

    jamesproffitt,

    ah, this shitty article. I am so, so angry at the douchecakes who wrote this. Also, I totally bet this is a not-so-stealth attempt at discrediting the pro-choice crowd.

    Jeebus fucking christ, how anybody can not get that choice is about the fetus being in the womans womb for fucks sake is beyond me.
    Infanticide has fuckall to do with abortion because the infant is no longer in the womans womb! It can be given up for adoption if the woman wants to get rid of it!
    I mean, how in the world do these fuckwits think things work in the world of pro-choice, killing babbies for the fun of it and because we like them grilled in a spicy marinade?
    Wait… I bet that is precisely what they believe.

    I repeat, Jeebus fucking christ!

  87. says

    Rebekah of Sunny Brookings Farm has been arrested. Again.
    David Cameron is next, I hope. (along with the MurdOrcs.)
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ‘5 foot 2, hands of blue,
    has anyone one seen my gaaaaall!?’
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I called in well today. I visited my boat earlier, (she’s fine, thanks for asking), and am currently kicked back on the couch with shorts on and the windows wide open. Ahh, the perfect Spring Break; the kids leave and the nice wx arrives.

  88. says

    ah, this shitty article. I am so, so angry at the douchecakes who wrote this. Also, I totally bet this is a not-so-stealth attempt at discrediting the pro-choice crowd.

    Jeebus fucking christ, how anybody can not get that choice is about the fetus being in the womans womb for fucks sake is beyond me.
    Infanticide has fuckall to do with abortion because the infant is no longer in the womans womb! It can be given up for adoption if the woman wants to get rid of it!
    I mean, how in the world do these fuckwits think things work in the world of pro-choice, killing babbies for the fun of it and because we like them grilled in a spicy marinade?
    Wait… I bet that is precisely what they believe.

    I repeat, Jeebus fucking christ!

    Random question. Who the fuck are these people from the “Academic Left”?

    This idea doesn’t prop up at all in the pro-choice side, unlike the anti-choice side’s insanity…everyone is ignoring these people. This is a needless demonization and characterization.

  89. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    jamesproffitt,
    I read that, and found it mind-boggling.
    To my mind (if female autonomy is the crux of the issue, not fetal personhood), the appropriate pre:post birth correlation is abortion:adoption.
    The anti-choicers who are fixated on fetal personhood would make the jump to infanticide, because to them, that’s what it is about.
    But women who seek and/or have abortions aren’t doing it because they want to kill their babies, they’re doing it because they don’t want (or can’t) have a child.

  90. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    Random question. Who the fuck are these people from the “Academic Left”?

    That would be the esteemed Professor Ivan Mahan Alexander Strahmanne, BA, MA, BSh.

  91. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Oggie, have I told you lately that you are strange?

    Awesomely strange, but strange.

  92. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Relatedly, I’m reading the Kent Hovind thread. I’m to post #628, and the troll has (apparently) flounced.

    Is there are reason the thread kept going? Did he return? Or is it just more Monty Python jokes?

  93. Dhorvath, OM says

    Rev,
    That is a mixed one to be sure. Yes, it’s true and she alleviates some by mentioning her response to her body of work, but the ad trades on the idea that what she did is distasteful to emotionally drive the point home. So women enjoying sex work is still a bad thing that they need to be rescued from by paying better for other careers. The message in favour of equal pay is hidden in one of don’t let women do porn.

  94. cicely ("Intriguingly Odd") says

    Give us a smile, Esteleth!

    Uh, okay.

    Why, Esteleth, what sniny teeth you have! The better to eat Cupcakes with, I presume.
    :)

    rorschach, sorry to hear about the Stingification.
    I understand that *booze* is good for swelling and inflamation (or possibly, for making them seem less relevant).
    So: *boozes*

    *moral support*, Giliell. Hold that line!

  95. chigau (√-1) says

    Esteleth
    re the Kent Hovind thread
    keep reading, it gets more interesting extremely silly.
    We’re on page 2!

  96. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    Oggie, have I told you lately that you are strange?

    Awesomely strange, but strange.

    Two things:

    First, what did I do this time?

    Third, keep in mind that I only express what (I think) is the best 10% of my humour. The crappy 90% stays stuck in me head (which may explain a lot).

    Third, I always endevour to give people more than that for which they ask.

  97. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    I have been listening to Tom Lehrer lately.

    There’s one song where he starts by reading a review (one that he’s “always treasured”) from the NY Times: “Mr. Lehrer’s muse is not fettered by such inhibiting factors as taste.”

    Now, see, that is how to burn in a polite manner.

    Lehrer liked this review so much that he printed it on the cover of one of his albums.

  98. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    Odd I was pretty sure he was a BS

    Think about the appelation, ‘BSh’, and all will be clear.

  99. says

    James Proffitt: Oh, it’s Lord Saletan.

    Keenacat: Yes. Saletan is a favorite concern troll of the anti-choicers. Amanda Marcotte of Pandagon has repeatedly eviscerated him for his Scofield-like JAQing off and his complete disregard for women’s moral agency.

    Then there’s the “Obamacare = $1 abortions” talking point. Begging the question of why there’s anything wrong with free or nearly-free abortions. Also, opening the door to jokes about dollar menus.

  100. Rev. BigDumbChimp says

    Rev,
    That is a mixed one to be sure. Yes, it’s true and she alleviates some by mentioning her response to her body of work, but the ad trades on the idea that what she did is distasteful to emotionally drive the point home. So women enjoying sex work is still a bad thing that they need to be rescued from by paying better for other careers. The message in favour of equal pay is hidden in one of don’t let women do porn.

    Yep I got mixed messages from it as well. equal pay [good], but in order to get equal pay I had to do porn [bad], but I love my job [good]

    Now really I think the message is while Sasha is perfectly happy doing some pretty hard core porn, it’s not for everyone. So not everyone should have to do porn just to get equal pay.

    But the message is delivered a little poorly IMNSHO.

  101. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    I have been listening to Tom Lehrer lately.

    Odd. I listened to the three volume The Remains of Tom Lehrer on the drive back from Maine. I had forgotten how good he was.

    It’s a proven treatment, they just lack the guts to ‘first, do no harm’.

    Except that ‘first, do no harm’ has been replaced, for some doctors and most hospitals and health disinsurance plans, with ‘first, make a profit.’ By kicking the patient out because of medical marijuana, they are protecting their bottom line. Unless it is a religious non-profit, in which case they are protecting their rigth wing jesus.

  102. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Cicely,

    Why, Esteleth, what sniny teeth you have! The better to eat Cupcakes with, I presume.

    Indeed. *noms on Cupcakes*
    FWIW, PhotoBooth is not the best software for avoiding overexposure. That photo is hella overexposed. Trufax, my hair is not green.

    Oggie,
    (Can I keep calling you Oggie, btw? Or do you prefer Ogvorbis?)

    Two things:

    First, what did I do this time?

    Between the riffing in a Pythonesque manner off of the names of stains and the citing of the wise Dr. Strahmane, I am impressed.
    Also, just, well, in general.

    Third,

    What happened to poor Second? Did you run away from her again, you awful, awful man?

    keep in mind that I only express what (I think) is the best 10% of my humour. The crappy 90% stays stuck in me head (which may explain a lot).

    Ah. I is impressed. My brain/mouth filter (or my brain/keyboard filter, as the case may be) is much less effective.

    Third,

    Two thirds?! Why? Why am I always stuck at 66.7%?!

    I always endevour to give people more than that for which they ask.

    How very, very sniny of you. Here, have some grog.

    chigau,
    I’m now to comment #707. I am forced to ask two questions:
    1. WTF are you all on?
    2. Can I have some?

  103. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    (Can I keep calling you Oggie, btw? Or do you prefer Ogvorbis?)

    I’m easy. During just my childhood, I was Billy, Bill, William, Willy, Loki, Bilbo, Towhee (I was a blond kid), and Dr. Strange, so whatever. Ogvorbis is just the first name I have ever given myself.

    Between the riffing in a Pythonesque manner off of the names of stains and the citing of the wise Dr. Strahmane, I am impressed.

    You are easily impressed. Stay away from harbors if the English need sailors.

    What happened to poor Second?

    I’m on a diet. No seconds.

    Here, have some grog.

    I can has single malt scotch? Or Ommegang Dubbel?

    I’m now to comment #707.

    Ah. Boeing time. I understand now.

  104. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Oggie,

    You are easily impressed. Stay away from harbors if the English need sailors.

    I am American. IIRC my lessons in history, there was a war over this issue once. Pretty sure the limeys lost.

    I’m on a diet. No seconds.

    So you skip seconds and have two thirds instead?
    *ponders*

    I can has single malt scotch? Or Ommegang Dubbel?

    Well, my fridge o’beer (see comment #126) currently contains Ommegang Rare Vos, Franziskaner Weissbier, Franziskaner Dunkel, and Original Sin. Help yourself.

  105. ChasCPeterson says

    Random question. Who the fuck are these people from the “Academic Left”?

    Did you read the link?

    two philosophers, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva. In the Journal of Medical Ethics…

    Infanticide has fuckall to do with abortion because the infant is no longer in the womans womb!

    but, see, these here philosophers disagree with your arbitrary criterion of ‘parturition’. Did you read the link?

    I totally bet this is a not-so-stealth attempt at discrediting the pro-choice crowd.

    Nonsense. It’s serious ethical philosophy.
    Our own bloghost and ECO has expressed similar opinions in the past, you know.

  106. says

    An ex-mormon, Richard Packham, wrote an article for Yahoo News revealing all of the so-called not-secret-but-sacred underpinnings of the mormon church. He tells about the passwords, handshakes, oaths to kill oneself by various means (throat slitting, disembowelment, etc.) and he goes through the “laws” to which mormons swear fealty in the temple.

    Excerpt:

    …The “law of the gospel” is accompanied by a charge to avoid “evil speaking of the Lord’s anointed [church leaders]” as well as avoiding “light-mindedness, loud laughter, taking the Lord’s name in vain” and every “unholy and impure practice” (not specified)….

    The last law is the “law of consecration.” It requires the Mormons to

    …consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.
    A couple of terms need explanation. The “Kingdom of God on the earth” and “Zion” mean, to Mormons, not just their church, but ultimately the theocracy that will replace the non-religious civil government. They believe, of course, that Christ will come to run this government, using faithful Mormons as administrators.

    The pressing question for Mitt Romney, and for the Mormons who are supporting his candidacy, is: Would Romney consider the Presidency to be something that God had “blessed” him with, and which, pursuant to his secret oath, he should “consecrate” to his church for establishing a theocracy? If he is elected, will he kneel down and thank his God for blessing him with the presidency? And what is he supposed to do, according to his secret oath, with “everything” God has blessed him with? That’s right: he is to use it for the benefit of the Mormon church….

  107. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    I am American. IIRC my lessons in history, there was a war over this issue once. Pretty sure the limeys lost.

    I am impressed with your knowledge of history. Most USAnians would be hard pressed to remember anything about The War of 1812 other than our National Anthem and the Battle of New Orleans (well, the song maybe, not the battle).

    We fire our guns ’til the barrels melted down,
    So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round.
    We put a cannonball in his mouth, and powdered his behind,
    and when we lit the powder off, the ‘gator lost his mind!

  108. says

    David Brooks: Wimminz ain’t breedin’ enough. But, being Bobo, he says it genteelly, which means that a lot of idiots will deem it a “thoughtful” column.

    Rebutted by Amanda Marcotte, who also links to an article about a Georgia state rep who says that if farm animals can give birth to a dead baby, human sluts have a lot of nerve asking for abortions to get rid of stillborn fetii.

    Chas, you’re really not good at understanding political context, are you?

  109. says

    Ogvorbis,

    can the War of 1812 be regarded a win?

    Also, when I visited the Fort McHenry in Baltimore I was told that was the place AND GIANT FACEPALM TO SELF because I just managed not to see that you did mention the National Anthem…

  110. carlie says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter – I was about to come and link to that very article about the Georgia legislator. But I was going to call him a punkass piece of shit who says that not only should we outlaw abortion of dead fetuses because cows have to deal with it, but also because some other piece of shit said that he’d stop engaging in cockfighting if they outlawed abortion, and how meaningful that was.
    I am honestly getting scared to my core about this. The upswell of anti-woman legislation in the last couple of years, and the amount of vitriol being directed towards us, is honestly frightening. The amount of support this stuff is getting in the media and from the public is horrifying. It’s not just abortion itself, it’s the amount of pure hatred of women reeking from all of these laws and discussions that petrifies me.

  111. says

    Ogvorbis –

    You are easily impressed. Stay away from harbors if the English need sailors.

    Oh, fuck, I laughed out loud.

    Esteltheth –

    “there was a war over this issue once. Pretty sure the limeys lost.”

    the limeys might disagree with you. They burned D.C., our nation’s capitol, and USAians won a decisive battle … after the war.

    It’s still Ok to hate the French, isn’t it?

  112. ChasCPeterson says

    *shrug* I do try not to let political context interfere with my reading comprehension. The problem, of course, is that different people with different politics understand different contexts.
    You’ll have to show me some evidence that this article was politically motivated. It sounds like ethical philosophy as usual to me. Peter Singer, etc.?

  113. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    can the War of 1812 be regarded a win?

    No question it was a win for the young United States. The English agreed to end impressing of US sailors. Of course, the Battle of New Orleans (fought after the peace was signed) came during a brief hiatus between the defeat of Napoleon and the defeat of Napoleon. So the British need for sailors was dropping rapidly. Actually, it was crashing. So many sailors were being demobilized in English ports that wages on civilian fishing and trade vessels plunged (though food prices did not) leading to some urban unrest, especially in the larger English ports, so for the English to give up impressment in late 1814 was not a huge deal for the Royal Navy. (This is from memory, so if I got things wrong, I apoligize in advance.)

    But the War of 1812 was, despite the sacking of Washington, D.C., the decimation of US trade and sailing vessels, the disastrous invasion of Canada, a win. We ‘merkins no longer had to be impressed by the Brits.

  114. keenacat says

    Did you read the link?

    Yes, and the logic is borked.

    I don’t buy this argument, in part because I agree with Furedi that something profound changes at birth: The woman’s bodily autonomy is no longer at stake.

    This is the whole fucking point: bodily autonomy. So the “after-birth abortion” trail of thought is an utter fucking trainweck of bullshit and all the musing about wether a newborn is “fully human” is not even relevant to the question.

    I repeat:
    Choice is about the choices a woman makes for her bodily autonomy.
    The baby stops infringing on it the very moment it is delivered. Sure, she can choose to, for instance, nurse it – but she can as well not. She can also choose if she wants to raise it or not. But neither of these choices in any way necessitates the killing of the newborn, while an abortion totally necessitates the killing of the fetus.

    Also, if they want to argue that giving your baby up for adoption is more painful than killing it, suggested here:

    including “the interests of the mother who might suffer psychological distress from giving her child up for adoption.”

    they better provide some strong, strong evidence for it.

  115. says

    Did you read the link?

    You know for not being tainted by politics (or all those liberal dogooder ‘ethics’) you sure as hell didn’t let that stop you from ignoring everything I wrote after what you quoted.

    Yes you’re so objective you actively ignore what I say because you don’t like me.

    Chas you constantly confuse “asshole” with “intelligent”

    Back to the killfile.

  116. says

    Random question. Who the fuck are these people from the “Academic Left”?

    This idea doesn’t prop up at all in the pro-choice side, unlike the anti-choice side’s insanity…everyone is ignoring these people. This is a needless demonization and characterization.

    The entirety of my point. My whole point was that it was a red herring and guilt by association…with an idea that the pro-choice group doesn’t even fucking associate with.

    But you know, the fact that Chas is so awesome and I’m a stupid feminist is much more important of an issue.

  117. says

    Ogvorbis,

    interesting. The narrative presented to us (mentioning all these things, though I mostly remember the failed conquest of Canada and the sack of Washington) was that it was the “forgotten war” because it didn’t end in a win, or maybe it was perceived as a Pyrrhic victory…

  118. keenacat says

    Ing, what kind of killfile do you use? I have a sneaking suspicion I might need it later. I’d appreciate if you pointed me to a useful killfile tool to use.

  119. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    I haven’t clicked on the links, but some things are being said which strike me as odd.

    I read and write about a lot of contemporary philosophy, and it’s common knowledge that a lot of people in the field try to make their work relate to current events and political themes.

    I have a favorite recent example if anybody cares; it’ll take some digging though my PDFs later.

    +++++
    In other news: Ing, thanks for the ACK. I’ll just try emailing them to you next time I log in. IIRC, I have an address of yours that you’ve mentioned here. Sometime in the next week you can expect it.

  120. says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter @647: Thanks for the link. Marcotte’s post is a good read. Here’s an excerpt:

    After all, there are other metaphors for child-bearing that accomplish the goal of dehumanizing women by reducing them to means of production. Consider Georgia State Rep. Terry England, who addressed the concerns of women who will be denied treatment for unsalvagable pregnancies under proposed abortion bans by saying, “I’ve had the experience of delivering calves, dead and alive. Delivering pigs, dead or alive. It breaks our hearts to see those animals not make it.” Sure, the women-are-livestock analogy may seem a little less modern than the women-are-labor-factories analogy, but in an age when even Mitt Romney has to pretend he enjoys spending his weekends in a duck blind, it might just be the sort of good ol’ boy strategy you need to play to that Tea Party base.

  121. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Big problem: FTB eats Wikia links now (this is almost certainly my fault), Pharyngula Wiki is hosted at Wikia (definitely my fault).

    killfile is at pharyngula dot wikia dot com/wiki/greasemonkey

    +++++
    Halp! PZ! The spam filter hates Wikia!

  122. Ogvorbis: Now With 98% Less Intellectual Curiousity! says

    pelamun:

    It was one of the few wars in which the US has involved itself in which the casus belli was both real and ameliorated by the war. I think the main reason it has been forgotten is the massiveness of the US Civil War. Small wars (The War of Jenkins Ear, the French and Indian War, the War of 1812, the Mexican War, almost all of the wars of westward expansion, the Spanish American War, and the slew of small wars in the 1920s down in Central Amerca are all forgotten, whether we, as a nation, accomplished our stated or real goals or not. To single out the War of 1812 as, specifically, a forgotten war ignores all the others the US has been involved in, declared or (usually) not. The small forgotten wars fade rather quickly from memory. I have no way to prove it, but I suspect most USAnians know more about World War II than they do about Vietnam, much less Korea, Grenada, Santo Domingo, Lebanon, Lebanon, etc.

  123. keenacat says

    Ah, this explains the issues I had lately with posts containing Pharynguwiki-links.

    Thanks for the killfile. A few people are already lining up for it.

  124. jamesproffitt says

    @ keenacat and Ing:

    I totally thought it was a red-herring or some kind of dishonest writing meant to taint pro-choice activists at first. Whatever the intent of the original authors, that has certainly been the case with anti-choice friends of mine who scream online about how we are on a slippery slope to eating children for breakfast. Yuck.

    @Ms. Daisy Cutter:
    I had never heard of this guy before. His choice of article picture (look at how the evil abortionists want to hurt teh cute babies! *faint*) and title alone (the “pro-choice case for infanticide”?! wtf…) screams dishonest jerkwad. Then of course you have the text. Thanks for the tipoff.

  125. says

    Ogvorbis,

    I will defer to you about the question whether it was a win or a loss. Though I’m not sure if it counts as a small loss. The sack of the Capitol and trying to invade Canada don’t count as small to me, compared to the others you’ve listed.

    Also, the Mexican War wouldn’t count as small to me, but I might have spent too much time near there… People in Texas remember, and they learn a lot about in school…

  126. keenacat says

    on a slippery slope to eating children for breakfast

    I suggest a combination with mild cheese and some cucumber on roasted bread, as to not overwhelm the delicate aroma of the baby slices.
    An older child is better as a roast with garlic mashed potatoes and a side of caramelized carrots.

  127. jamesproffitt says

    “I suggest a combination with mild cheese and some cucumber on roasted bread, as to not overwhelm the delicate aroma of the baby slices.
    An older child is better as a roast with garlic mashed potatoes and a side of caramelized carrots.”

    I usually just pour ketchup and salt on them…

  128. A. R says

    Sailor:

    is it still ok to hate the French?

    Of course! Any time is a good time to despise the French! :)

    Esteleth: Perhaps I should arrange a meeting for you with a box of gloves?

  129. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    Oh! Infanticide! Yes. Okay. Now I know what you’re talking about. As Chas says, it’s not like a new topic or anything.

    Me in 2009: “see Peter Singer’s justifications for infanticide. They are not unreasonable arguments. I reject them because I believe there is a community (state) interest in the well-being of newborns.”

    My point was that people generally get stressed about the idea of killing newborns, and this affords the state a rational basis for outlawing the killing of newborns. And since it’s post-birth, such a law would not be infringing on women’s bodily autonomy, so rational basis review is sufficient.

    This societal preference could change, though, and I have no argument that it shouldn’t. Giubilini and Minerva give arguments for why it should. Well, that’ll take a while, if ever.

    But I find the reaction here strange. Many of y’all I’ve seen toss around “Overton window” when it suits you. This seems to be that same sort of Overton thing.

  130. ChasCPeterson says

    Ms. Cutter, I am sorry. Clearly the only right and correct way to read anything is through the glasses of your personal politics. I’ll try to do better in the future.

    Ing, please don’t cry. I am so sorry that I let pass an opportunity to remark on your trenchant commentary. Obviously you are 100% correct as always: this article from the Journal of Medical Ethics must be a covert political salvo from “the anti-choice side”.
    Us vs. them, and be sure to exclude the middle.

    the fact that Chas is so awesome and I’m a stupid feminist is much more important of an issue.

    lol. You really are an oblivious dumbass sometimes.

    So the “after-birth abortion” trail of thought is an utter fucking trainweck of bullshit and all the musing about wether a newborn is “fully human” is not even relevant to the question.

    Not to the question you insist on asking, maybe, but what escaped your notice here (because I guess you have your personal political glasses on) is that the article in question was not about that particular question.

    I repeat:
    Choice is about the choices a woman makes for her bodily autonomy.

    You can repeat your bald assertion about Choice as many times as necessary to make you feel OK, but it doesn’t get any more relevant.

    it’s common knowledge that a lot of people in the field try to make their work relate to current events and political themes.

    And therefore…what? All philosophers are always trying to do that, and therefore it’s the only right way to read philosophy? Your attempted rhetorical weaselry is noted.

    Whatever the intent of the original authors

    tossed off as if irrelevant. In case anybody can see far enough outside their political filter to wonder what that might have been, you can read their response to (mostly religious) criticism here.

    But I find the reaction here strange.

    Me too.

  131. says

    Ms. Daisy Cutter – I was about to come and link to that very article about the Georgia legislator. But I was going to call him a punkass piece of shit who says that not only should we outlaw abortion of dead fetuses because cows have to deal with it, but also because some other piece of shit said that he’d stop engaging in cockfighting if they outlawed abortion, and how meaningful that was.
    I am honestly getting scared to my core about this. The upswell of anti-woman legislation in the last couple of years, and the amount of vitriol being directed towards us, is honestly frightening. The amount of support this stuff is getting in the media and from the public is horrifying. It’s not just abortion itself, it’s the amount of pure hatred of women reeking from all of these laws and discussions that petrifies me.

    Carlie, I hear you. This is one of the reasons why feminists really do need to know there are more of us out there – in all shapes and sizes and genders and sometimes in surprising places – to shore up the courage, especially the courage of younger women who are most immediately targeted by this type of legislation (and the attempts to deny people with uteri the dignity of the personhood they would give to a blastocyst).

    These links are appalling. :(

    But on another note, how in hell do you all keep up with these long threads??

  132. says

    I am queen of grafting limb buds! My chick embryo developed almost to hatching and the limb bud that was grafted onto the blood vessels of the membrane grew into a little wing with feathers! My professor said it was the best she’s seen in 20 years of teaching this lab (she was more excited about it than I was).

    Pictures! (they might be icky if you’re not into this kind of thing)
    The chick!
    The grafted wing!

    /excited nerd-rant

  133. says

    Obviously you are 100% correct as always: this article from the Journal of Medical Ethics must be a covert political salvo from “the anti-choice side”.

    Chas, you fucking dumb ass, they haven’t been talking about the original article being biased. They were talking about the fucking Slate article. You don’t read too good.

  134. A. R says

    StarStuff: Very impressive! I’m using Drosophila as model organisms for Mumps virus HN binding to sialoglycoproteins by utilizing the UAS//Gal expression driver system. We’re working toward a model usable in antiviral compound testing.

  135. life is like a pitbull with lipstick ॐ says

    it’s common knowledge that a lot of people in the field try to make their work relate to current events and political themes.

    And therefore…what?

    Well, I’m glad you asked. See…

    All philosophers are always trying to do that, and therefore it’s the only right way to read philosophy?

    Er, so you weren’t really asking. And no. Clearly I could not have been saying this, since I said “a lot of people”, not “all”.

    Your attempted rhetorical weaselry is noted.

    You’re paranoid, Chas. What I was implying is that it’s not out of the ordinary for philosophy to be politically inspired. I don’t know why you’re reacting so hostilely to this idea, or to me for mentioning it.

    Are you feeling backed into a corner here? I’m sorry if I contributed to that feeling, but all I was doing was responding to what I thought an odd notion from you, that philosophy (and here, ethics! of all things!) is to be assumed non-political.

  136. Nutmeg says

    StarStuff:

    I am queen of grafting limb buds!

    I haz a jealous. Your undergrad experience sounds way cooler than mine was.

    I think I remember you being from Florida – are you at the campus where they hire people to scare away the alligators? One of my fellow grad students is from Florida and was telling me stories about some kind of alligator patrol – it sounded pretty awesome.

  137. Esteleth, Who is Totally Not a Dog or Ferret says

    Oggie, I know a bit about the war of 1812. But then, I’m a history nerd.

    Mostly American, English, and French, history, specifically. There was a time (maybe I still can!) when I could list all of the monarchs of England from Alfred the Great on. I always wanted to show this off to Walton and see if I could give him a monarchygasm.

    I have gloves, A.R. Dye gets on my wrists above them. And leaks through holes I don’t realize are there. Nitrile is remarkably fragile.

  138. keenacat says

    Chas, you fucking dumb ass, they haven’t been talking about the original article being biased. They were talking about the fucking Slate article. You don’t read too good.

    This.

    Incidentally, it is the reason I was quoting excerpts from the Slate article. But weasel weasel, right Chas?

    Not to the question you insist on asking, maybe, but what escaped your notice here (because I guess you have your personal political glasses on) is that the article in question was not about that particular question.

    The article in question is the Slate article and it is all about ZOMG PRO CHOICERS WANT TO KILL BABBIES!

  139. A. R says

    Esteleth: Ah, ok. I had a similar experience with Texas red and the cuffs of a very expensive shirt once.

  140. chigau (√-1) says

    In Canada when they taught us about the War of 1812, it was framed rather differently.

  141. Dhorvath, OM says

    Hey, just thought I would put in that my dad is in the Navy. The 1812 navy. He does re-enactments and history days for educational purposes all the time. That’s the extent of what I know about the war of 1812. So there.