Oh, agony

We had a debate on the subject “Is Atheism or Islam More Rational?”, between Hamza Tzortzis and Dan Barker, at UMTC last week. It’s now on youtube. It’s agonizing. Tzortzis is a kind of cut-rate Islamic William Lane Craig, and again he repeated his lies about the Quran containing inexplicably accurate embryology. It does not, and I’m tired of telling him so.

Why not?

We’ve encountered Michael Voris before: the painfully dogmatic and fervent Catholic Dominionist kook. He has a ridiculous video in which he asserts that theology is the queen of all the sciences because everything reduces to god, ultimately — which does leave one wondering why theology never produces any ideas that are actually useful to all of those scientific disciplines. I mean, take math for example: mathematicians are constantly coming up with tools and ideas that chemists and physicists and biologists and geologists all find awesomely useful. But what has theology given us? Nothing.

Michael drones on, going through the motions — he really seems dead-eyed and robotic in this video, doesn’t he? — and you probably got bored 30 seconds into the 5 minute clip. So I want to focus on just one point that Voris made, and mentioned in the caption, and which actually isn’t unique to Catholic nutjobs at all.

The fields of science can offer all kinds of information in answer to the question how… through the observance of the human intellect. But when asking the question why, man MUST turn to the divinity of the Creator.

How many times have you heard that claim: science can answer “how” questions, but it can never answer “why” questions, therefore we have to leave those kinds of questions to a non-scientific domain, which must be religion, therefore god. And that’s wrong at every step!

There’s no reason the interpreter of “why” questions has to be religion…why not philosophy? That seems a more sensible objective source than a religion burdened with a dogma and a holy book and wedded to revelation rather than reason. Voris assumes there has to be a divine creator, but that’s one of the questions, and you don’t get to just let it go begging like that.

The more fundamental question, though, is this oft-repeated distinction that science can’t answer “why” questions. Of course it can, if there’s a “why” in the first place! We are perfectly capable of asking whether there is agency behind a phenomenon, and if there is, of exploring further and identifying purpose. Why should we think otherwise?

Imagine you came home, as I did the other day, and saw this on the edge of your yard.

You’d immediately assume it was artificial, as I did — the perfectly circular outline suggests that a machine came by, and someone lowered some auger-like device and drilled a large hole in the yard. You could also look up and down the street and see that the hole-driller had struck several other places, all in a line parallel to the road and exactly the same distance from the curb. They are almost certainly the product of intent.

Does that in any way imply that I’m now done, that asking why these holes were dug is beyond the scope of all rational inquiry? That I ought to drop to my knees and praise ineffable Jesus, who caused holes to manifest in the ground for reasons that I, as a mere mortal man, cannot possibly question? Oh, Lord, mine is not to question why, I must accept what is!

Of course not. I can speculate reasonably; it looks like a hole for planting something in. I can check into the city offices, and learn that there’s concern about emerald ash borers killing trees in our community. I can see the next day that a city crew came by and put new saplings in place all up and down the street. Even without actually talking to anyone directly, I can figure out from the evidence why there is a hole in my yard.

Similarly, if there was a god busily poofing the entirety of the cosmos into existence, that’s an awful lot of evidence that can be examined for motive…are we to instead believe it is so incoherent that we can discern no possible purpose behind all this data?

And what if instead, I’d come home and found one hole in the neighborhood, it was a rough-edged and asymmetrical crater, and in the center of it was a small rocky meteorite? Then I could ask how it came to be there (it fell out of the sky and smacked into my yard), and I could try to ask why, but the answer would be that there was no agency behind it, there was no purpose, and it was simply a chance event of a kind that happens all the time.

When people try to argue that science can’t answer “why” questions, what they’re actually saying is that they don’t like the answer they get — there is no why! There is no purpose or intent! — and are actually trying to say that the only valid answer they’ll accept is one that names an intelligence and gives it a motive. That is, they want an answer that names a god as an ultimate cause, and a description that doesn’t include agency doesn’t meet their presuppositions.

Why I am an atheist – Jim Atkins

I was raised Catholic, not too strictly. My big sister was the lucky one that went to Catholic school for early elementary. I guess I just kind of floated along, not too strong on religion, but not exactly divorced from it. In 1970, my sophomore year in high school, I saw my first comet (Comet Bennett, a beauty) and got hooked on astronomy. I kind of slid gradually into the realization that the picture religion painted was not exactly correlated with the facts and the appearance of the actual universe, unless you did some serious weaseling and rationalizations. That was my wake-up call. Empiricism trumped dogma. I have been an atheist and an amateur astronomer for 41 years now. The most difficult part for most of my Christian friends and relatives to grasp is the willingness to say “I don’t know- there isn’t enough evidence.” All of my most religious or woo-oriented acquaintances cannot fathom not having total knowledge of the universe. They crave it so much, they invent it out of nowhere. That always struck me as being so tragically sad, not being secure enough in our own mind that you grasp frantically at anything, no matter how counterfactual or downright harmful.

Jim Atkins
United States

This weekend…

You all know what’s going on this weekend: Skepticon IV. There are many things to look forward to in this big event:

  • #creozerg2. We’re crashing the Creation Museum of the Ozarks. I suspect this will be anti-climactic, but there will be photos and twitter chatter. I will put my butt on any rideable dino in sight.

  • The gathering of the Freethoughtblogs horde. What do we have? Something like 6 of us showing up? I think we need to work out some kind of handshake and FtB cheer.

  • Oh, yeah, some talks. You can skip them. You have my permission.

  • We’re invading the Farmers Gastropub at 9:30 on Saturday night. So if you couldn’t afford the registration fee for Skepticon, meet us there. (Registration is $0, so we’ll know you’re in desperate straits.)

  • The yearly ceremonial attempt by Dave Silverman to strangle PZ Myers for dissing his billboard.

  • Some movie.

  • Rumor has it that the party starts Thursday night and doesn’t end until Sunday — it lasts longer than the time Jesus spent in Hell, and it will be lots more fun.

  • Mrs PZ will be in attendance. Get her alone, she’ll tell you awful embarrassing stories about me.

  • Sunday: MATH LESSONS. So much better than church.