Someone on twitter complained that I was losing my edge. Then Rebecca Watson mocked me and posted this video.
If I weren’t so creaky and crotchety and feeble, I might stir myself to fight back. But no…there’s a beautiful woman in the bedroom who needs a massage. I have better things to do.
Not only that, Rory waited for her for 2000 years and she only had to wait a measly 36.
Like I said, time for new companions (probably a new Doctor too after this season, but that’s speculation).
Like I said, time for new companions (probably a new Doctor too after this season, but that’s speculation).
I don’t know if we need new companions, Amy just needs to be developed more/ better.
As for getting a new Doctor: NOOOOOOO!
Blockquote failure. You get the idea though.
“The Edgeless Atheist”?
Glen Davidson
Yep, PZ, you have better things to do.
Your impression is wrong. Simplistic strawmen (and labelling any view you disagree with as “libertarian” on the rather thin ground that it includes words like “freedom” and “coercion”) are not helpful for those of us who are actually trying to have a rational debate.
Forcing people to do things against their will is, of course, harmful in and of itself. This follows from the assumptions that the goal of morality is to enhance human wellbeing, and loss of autonomy detracts from a person’s wellbeing. To put it another way, I benefit, by definition, from being allowed to do what I want to do. If I am stopped from doing something I want, then I have suffered a loss of autonomy, and therefore a detriment to my wellbeing.
However, it’s equally obvious that forcing people to do things against their will is justified, where it’s necessary to do so in order to prevent a greater harm. Harming A can be justified if, in so doing, we prevent greater harm to B, C and D. Taxing people, and preventing them from murdering each other, are both justified because they are necessary in order to prevent a greater harm (chaos, starvation and the demise of social infrastructure in the first instance, needless deaths in the second).
Therefore, when we are discussing a policy that involves forcing someone to act against their will, we obviously have to weigh the interference with their autonomy against the social harm we are intending to prevent. If the harm we avoid is greater than the harm we cause, then the policy is a good one. Thus, preventing people from murdering each other is (uncontroversially) a good policy, because the loss of the murderers’ autonomy is outweighed by the prevention of harm to the potential victims. Taxing people to pay for universal health care is (in my view, and probably yours) a good policy, because the loss of the taxpayers’ autonomy is outweighed by the social benefits of having an effective and efficient health care system which covers the whole population. By contrast, compulsory voting is a bad policy, because the interference with the voter’s autonomy is not outweighed by any discernible social good.
Strangely enough, I didn’t say that it was remotely comparable, in terms of severity or in kind, to either of those things. That would, indeed, be a cheap and fallacious rhetorical point, but I didn’t make such a point.
My argument is very simple. Coercive interference with people’s lives is bad, unless such interference serves the purpose of conferring a benefit on others or of avoiding harm to others, and such benefit or harm is sufficiently substantial to outweigh the harmful effect of the coercion. Like most moral decisions, it’s a balancing test, weighing up one imperative against another. In the case of compulsory voting, the coercion is very minor; but since it has no demonstrable good effects on society, the coercion is unnecessary.
(In retrospect, the argument I made at #6 – based on balancing the amount of coercion against the amount of benefit produced or the amount of harm avoided – is a stronger argument than the distinction between positive and negative interference with a person’s autonomy, which I made on the last thread. I shouldn’t have confused matters by introducing the latter distinction, and for that I apologize.)
Jesus Christ Walton. Can you make a project of aiming for conciseness? I’m as nerdy as they get when it comes to reading long arguments and legal briefs, but fuck me, you do go on. Better learn to pare shit down if you’re going to make arguments before the court.
I agree. Walton, you’ve practically written a book at this point. And I’m pretty sure whoever you were talking to have moved on at this point.
I do like this Doctor. He’s got an edge. He’s past conflicted, he’s mostly past guilt, damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. Yet… he’s getting older. He’s making mistakes. He doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does, and it’s starting to bite him in the ass more and more often. It’s really intriguing to see the Last of the Time Lords brought down not by a huge conspiracy of his enemies, but in increments by his own faltering. And Matt Smith – how someone so young and handsome manages to play so old always amazes me. I just hate how sloppy the writing is with Moffat at the helm, and how they seem to just go “gee whiz this is a cool idea!” with everything and throw it all in without regard for what kind of an overall story it makes or whether any of it passes fridge logic.
Online poll that could use some adjusting. Teacher did a freedom of speech demonstration in class that has people all up in arms.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Kansas-teachers-lesson-on-free-speech-criticized/arfN8IMmmE–TqS1JThVZQ.cspx
@ Ulgaa
You’re damn right that poll needs some adjusting. Are people really this dumb?
There are one or two rational comments but the rest is just mind numbing.
The mindless nationalism that exists in this country is still amazing to me.
OK.
(breathes)
OK.
I just saw, for the first time, a clip of the USAian “reality” show “Jersey Shore.” Sure, I know of it since it’s a (shudder) contemporary culture touchstone. . .and it gets made merciless fun of by comedians.
But having no TV in my house, I’d never seen any of it. Not even the littlest bit.
There can be nothing more offensive and infuriating. It’s a parade of low-life white trash gigolos and whores. Everyone on that show revels in acting out the most debased stereotypes of low-income Italian white people. The guys are all inarticulate lunkheads in “wife beater” undershirts, gold chains (and doubtless Axe body spray) and fake tans. The gals are tarted up like street walkers in mall jewelry, tossing their hair and talking “upspeak” to out-compete their coworker whores in order to lure the alpha wife-beater guido.
They have a goddamned blackboard to record who fucked whom so as to track who “exchanged spit.” I’m not kidding.
Ucch.
When I make throwaway short comments (or short blog posts, etc.) about a controversial issue, I usually come back a few minutes later to find either (a) that someone (or, in the worst cases, everyone) has completely misunderstood what I meant, and that my critics are arguing with something I didn’t intend to say; or (b) that I’ve overlooked or glossed over a point of vital importance, and that someone has consequently pulled apart my argument. I have long since come to the conclusion that I, personally, can write arguments that are strong or arguments that are short, but not both.
That is why, when I get involved in a debate, I quickly find myself writing ten-screen comments – because that’s the only way I can ensure that I’ve said exactly what I meant to say, and that I’ve explored all the likely angles of criticism and addressed them in advance. Similarly, all of my more controversial blog posts end up being 1500-2500 words, or even more (far longer than is conventional for the genre). I’m sorry if this annoys some people, but it’s just my style; and I would rather be a little boring than run the risk of being (a) entirely misinterpreted or (b) wrong.
Yawn. Welcome to the Internet Walton. And get the fuck over yourself. No one wants to read 13-screeners.
(I was also personally offended by some of the assumptions that drbunsen appeared to be making about me, and decided to address them in some depth. For that I make no apology whatsoever.)
@ Josh (about Jersey Shore)
Welcome to American television!
*shrugs* Whatever. If you don’t want to read my comments, I’m not forcing you. I tried to explain why I write long comments, but apparently you’re not interested in an explanation, just in chiding me for the sake of it.
(Well. That certainly clears things up.)
You’re well on your way to a
greatlegal career, seeing as how you’ve mastered the art of inserting qualifiers at every possible opportunity, which has the bonus side-effect of elongating your sentences.Walton, you’re super-smart and you have an unusually keen analytical brain. But you can be really annoying and twee. Pull yourself up short now before you become a parody of the hated American lawyer. Really.
Okay, I
readthe last bit of the last edition of the thread because I was interested to see what people were saying about Doctor Who (I like Amy & Rory & Matt as The Doctor, but yeah, this week’s ep. was kind of samey to a lot of the previous waiting/time mix-ups that we’ve seen before).I just have to say, I support compulsory voting. Maybe people would *get* more interested and informed if they were required to vote–at least some of them would, so we’d have more informed voters than we have now. I believe it is a civic duty and is the least effort that society demands in return for citizenship.
Other fixes: 1. No partisan advertising (aside from membership recruitment and the like) except during election periods. 2. A law against lying and misleading in political ads. 3. A moderate cap on campaign spending with funding for each official party paid for by taxes. 4: No donations by corporations or lobby groups to political parties allowed.
This would encourage campaigns to be about policy rather than who can pay the most to get the most lies across to voters.
It might be nice too if there was no media polling allowed during the campaign period. I always get the impression that more voters decide how to vote based on how they feel about poll results than how they feel about party platforms.
I meant to say
readskimmed in the first sentence of my comment.Seriously though guys, these poll results are really messed up. So are the comments.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Kansas-teachers-lesson-on-free-speech-criticized/arfN8IMmmE–TqS1JThVZQ.cspx
Wrong. I have no interest in chiding you for the sake of it; I’m not that petty and mean.
I am interested in pointing out to you the ways you undercut your effectiveness (while annoying the reader) by going on at excessive length. Believe it or not, Walton, I like you very much (as much as someone on the Internet can like another person without having met them) and I think you’re unusually intelligent. You’re also in need of tempering—as all of us are as we grow into our careers.
You needn’t care whether I like you or not; I’m just an anonymous Internet guy, of course. But it isn’t hatefulness that motivates what I say to you.
Compulsory voting seems to be working for us reasonably well.
The social good that compulsory voting does, in my opinion, is to reinforce the idea that we are all in this democracy together. It’s quite a good thing to keep democracy for all, rather than start down any of those slippery slopes of voting being somehow only for the “right people”. Or that it’s unimportant and it doesn’t matter if you don’t do it. We’re a democracy, it’s important.
Also, pretty much every primary school in Australia benefits with a little fundraising sausage sizzle, cake stall or garden sale.
Walton:
I’ll say again that I don’t advocate compulsory voting. I was criticizing your arguments, so I can understand how you might have gotten that impression.
I thought some were claiming it does have demonstrably good effects on voter turnout, which I would take to be a social good in general. It may be a minor effect, but as you say the coercion is also minor, so I don’t think you’ve demonstrated that it’s unnecessary.
Walton – … headdesk
Oh sweetbaby jezus fuck me with a tuba, it just isn’t worth it.
That’s a new one. Mind if I use it?
Dog damn it nobody else is going to do this, I guess.
So according to my count–which, as the only count, is definitive–the last comment in the previous subThread (CCLII/730) was Threadwise comment # 190778.
If this is CCLIII/31, it is therefore # 190809.
So I’m leaving for Maryland in… an hour or so. Driving overnight. Road trip with SB to help him find new digs in MD and move in.
And Walton… it’s good advice Josh is giving you.
By the by, since you’re in the northeast, have you considered coming to one of the Pharyngula meetups in October? The Vermont meetup is only 3 hours by car from where you are. And there is train service and stuff.
Misery spiral is in full effect. Dealing with the stoopid is bad enough without being forced to reflect on my own (unrelated) shortcomings at the same time.
Out here in Oregon we vote by mail. Yep, good old paper ballot, and every election we get, in the mail, a voters pamphlet. All the candidates have their say in print, every measure has the pros/cons explained.
I may not be explaining that well, or clearly.
pros/cons – if you vote for this tax measure X will receive funding.
If you vote against this tax measure X will not receive funding.
This is a gross simplification, but it works well here. I don’t think most people feel forced or coerced into voting in my state. Some people can’t read, but they are citizens, so they have the right to vote. There are places these people can go to hear the ballot, and pamphlet read aloud. Most of the time they don’t get prayed at in those places.
Patricia: Supposedly, we’re supposed to have that on our ballots… but it’s usually so convoluted and impenetrable that it would be better off not being there. In fact, they’re often interpreted to mean the exact opposite of what they actually do.
@ Patricia
Lucky. Here we have to request a ballot if we want to vote by mail. It doesn’t come with any explainy parts either. It’s pretty lame.
And after more than 190,000 comments, people are still talking about:
Walton!
Ben G
Eat something.
and read Stephen Fry’s The Fry Chronicles.
And hug a kitty!
Starstuff – Could have been worse, I could have said fuck me with a french horn… on the other hand a trombone could be oodles of fun. *smirk* Feel free to use it. But when I get to the farm animals, some knowledge or experience is required.
Scrollin’ scrollin’ scrollin’
Keep those mousies scrollin’
Oh my.
Oh, the other night I took me wife down to the music hall,
And ever since that bloomin’ night it has been her downfall
She sat beside the bandsman, and he filled her with delight
The fella who played the trombone, he stole me wife that night.
Chorus:
With his Rump She- rarra, rump She- rarra, rump She- rarra day,
The fella that played the trombone, he stole me wife away.
He pulled his long thing in ‘n out, he made her feel so gay,
He really tickled her fancy with his rump She- rarra day.
Verse:
Now, she said she liked his music, she’d go there every week,
I said it would be her downfall if she didn’t stop her cheek.
She took no notice what I said, and went from time, to time.
I stayed at home and nursed the kids while him and her did shine.
On his…
Now, the other night I woke to find she’d gone with all her clothes,
She’d gone with that bandsman, to a land where no one knows.
But if ever I should find them, I’d spoil their honeymoon,
I’d smash his bloody instrument if I’d catch him playin’ a tune.
On his…
*sigh* I know, and I’m sorry for being irritable. I’m just a little stressed this evening for some reason. I apologize for biting your head off.
====
This is a rhetorical slogan, not an argument. Can you be specific? What does it mean to say that we are “all in this democracy together”? What are the actual effects of such an idea on political life, and how does compulsory voting actually work, in practice, to produce these effects? In what respects has compulsory voting actually improved Australian politics, in comparison with other Western democracies?
In a separate vein, what if I were a Marxist-Leninist who believes that bourgeois democracy is a sham? Or an anarchocapitalist who believes that any state, however democratically-constituted, is illegitimate by definition? If I were such a person, I’d probably object very strongly to the idea that “we’re all in this democracy together”. In that position, why shouldn’t I be able to participate in an act of protest – an act of free speech, in other words – by deliberately declining to participate in a system I don’t believe in?
This is rhetorical sleight-of-hand. Giving people a choice of whether to vote is not equivalent to restricting voting to “the right people”. Can you show me any evidence that Britain, or France, or New Zealand, or any other democratic country restricts voting, in theory or in practice, to “the right people”, and that people who want to vote are denied the opportunity to do so? (Unless “the right people” means “the people who choose to vote”, in which case your assertion is trivially true, but not very useful; you’re then simply assuming what you need to prove, which is that voluntary non-voting is a bad thing for society.)
(Of course, no Western country, including Australia, actually has “democracy for all”. All of them generally deny suffrage to non-citizen residents*, including legal permanent residents, refugees and those granted asylum. Many deny the vote to prisoners. And so on. Not that that’s got anything to do with compulsory voting, in itself; I’m just pointing out that “democracy for all” is a myth, with or without compulsory voting.)
(*With a couple of minor exceptions: nationals of an EU member state resident in another member state can vote in municipal elections. That isn’t relevant, but I thought I should mention it in case someone decided to be pedantic.)
It’s self-evident that voting is important, in those cases where it’s likely to influence the outcome of an election. Even where it won’t influence the outcome, a person may reasonably consider his or her vote important as an expression of protest.
It does not necessarily follow, however, that it’s a good thing for everyone to vote, or that everyone is morally obliged to vote. As I said, I would contend that it’s actually a bad thing to pressure people to vote who are uninformed about politics, and uninterested in making the effort to inform themselves and make rational decisions. (Such people should have the right to vote, as everyone should; but it does not follow that it is always better for society if everyone chooses to exercise that right. By analogy: everyone should have the right to free speech, too, even the stupid and the hateful; yet it would be a good thing for society if Fox News and the Daily Mail were voluntarily to stop wexercising that right. There is a difference between “everyone should have the right to do X” and “it is better for society if everyone does X”.)
I don’t see any evidence that elections with higher voter turnouts necessarily or automatically lead to better or more rational results than elections with lower voter turnouts.
Why is voter turnout inherently a social good? It may be, but you have to argue this point, rather than asserting it as axiomatic.
You see, I don’t see democratic participation as an a priori good in itself. I’m a strict utilitarian. What is good is what maximises human wellbeing; what is bad is what harms human wellbeing. In designing a political system, I’m interested in its practical results for human wellbeing, not in its abstract ideological purity.
Democracy is better than other political systems, in general, because it tends on average to produce better results for human wellbeing than other political systems. But it doesn’t follow that, within a democracy, higher voter turnouts necessarily produce better results for human wellbeing than lower voter turnouts.
Of course compulsory voting increases voter turnout; it would be hard to see how it could fail to do so (unless there were absolutely no enforcement mechanism, in which case it would be a dead letter). But no one has shown that compulsory voting actually produces
:-( That’s not good. Hope you feel better soon.
Or hug a puppy!
On a semi-related note, how is it so possible to feel so alone after a party of a dozen plus friendly people? Sigh. I always need a close friend to go with me so I don’t hover around the few (not-close-friend*) people that I really like to talk to. ‘Cause I don’t want them to feel like they have a pathetic puppy following them.
*If I like to talk to them why aren’t they my close friends? I dunno. Some newly met, others not sure if they think I’m okay.
/End rant.
I’ve decided to try and comment more in the substantial threads soon. Maybe it will sharpen up my arguin’ skills. We’ll see how far I get on that what with work and life. I don’t know how some of you do it.
Bed time. G’night Thread.
Here are the three seed artists for the BEST Pandora station ever created!
1. Toubab Krewe
2. Emperor Penguin
3. Diplo
4. (Optional) Blockhead
Try it! You’ll feel hip, energized, and chilled out at the same time. If you want to tilt it further to the instrumental side of things, omit Diplo.
I just polished off a bag of trail mix. Didn’t work.
No animals around here.
And I’ve got stuff I need to do (which is part of the problem).
Could someone take over for me? This troll needs a severe beatdown, now.
Benjamin & Starstuff – Wow, now I do feel good about my state!
Except in the case of my former church. I know, from participating, that brothers in the faith are assigned to different candidates and measures, and they are weighed against the conciseness of christ. These are discussed in home lessons, which is entirely legal, so far as I can tell.
@ChasPeterson – Sorry. It got stuck between my teeth.
Ben, I made a post or two there, but really, don’t stress yourself out because Someone Is Wrong On The Internet. I’m not overly experienced in dealing with deep depression, so I won’t offer any annoying advice. You probably already know what to do, it’s just a matter of actually doing it.
No. You really shouldn’t argue with these kinds of people online. It’s only going to cause you pain. I’m sorry, but you’re not going to change the mind of someone like that, or anyone else who thinks those things who might be reading.
Here’s a picture of my kitty to cheer you up: http://tinypic.com/r/r7vor9/7
I saw this week’s episode of Doctor Who, and I have got to say, I think it is the best episode of series 6. Say, after watching this episode, are any of you now feeling cautious in going to an Apple store? :P
Benjamin – Is that over at Gretas place?
I got the fucking idiot point she made, and I’m not going back over there unless PZ posts one of her topics. Even then I probably won’t make a comment. Too bad, because I used to enjoy her stuff, but her comment rules are too gawd damned sicky sweet for me….fucking idiot that I am. *snort*
Patricia: Nope, it’s at my local paper’s site.
####
Sometimes I want to find the part of my brain that’s responsible for envy and put a bullet through it.
Just found out my sister’s kitchen floor is now caving in thanks to being submerged in 1.5 feet of water for a couple of days. She doesn’t know if she’s ever going to be able to move back into that apartment… certainly not for a while. This sucks. They literally just moved in two months ago! And it’s such a beautiful spot… with a gigantic yard, and being so close to the river, they saw lots of wildlife…
Yeah. So close to the river. Us humans are so foolish and shortsighted with our settlement patterns.
Walton: I don’t see democratic participation as an a priori good in itself. Well, I do at least in a practical sense. Legitimate government derives from the consent of the governed. All of them. It’s pretty hard to come up with a better system for it.
I think it has worked well in Australia, but like every social science question, there are so many confounding variables it’s hard to say if that’s not due to something else. We piss all over the US in quality of life and levels of equality – but perhaps it’s not our egalitarian, anti-authoritarian national myth that does that. Scandinavia does pretty well, too.
And at any rate, the whole concept that we are an egalitarian community, not a random collection of libertarian me-firsters is worth reinforcing.
The more I think about compulsory voting, the more I remember that I much prefer the concept of ‘positive reinforcement’.
Also I figure there’s something to be said for the right ‘not to play’.
Well, the Protocol of Corruption™ is proceeding well – we’ve listened to the Talking Heads sing PsychoKiller and Life During Wartime, and the Kinks sing Lola, been to a baseball game, watched Stephen Colbert discuss the tides with Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and generally had a great time. Tomorrow I am hauling NMB to services from 9 until 11, but then he and the Spawn are going to hang out at the yarn store and wander around Old Town Alexandria until I’m done with my first official class as a spinning instructor (the yarn kind, not the stationary bike kind), and then we’ll drive him back to real life.
Sigh.
I’m glad we can do this –
his life is a far cry from the official glossy happy family image. I’m not surprised, since I’ve followed all of the discussions of my wise Pharyngulite colleagues who grew up in this sort of religion, but it’s sad nonetheless.
Greta’s comment rules are more of the don’t-feed-the-trolls variety. I’ve commented there for a while and never sensed that it was a silly sweet zone. Mister Galt is a hoot, though, speaking of trolls…
Mattir – Sorry, I don’t agree. I loves me some fresh troll meat. But I won’t not call some fuckwit a fucking idiot if they are a fucking idiot.
Why the hell join Freethought Blogs if you want a kissass, suckytit bunch of commenters? Yeah, I know I’m a foulmouthed rowdy ex-christian. I confess.
Benjamin “(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Geiger | 10 September 2011 at 11:17 pm :
You’re not supposed to eat it!
You put it in a mixing bowl, add eggs and water, stir until nearly smooth, fry it up in a pan, and poof! you have a trail to hike down.
Shit – sorry PZ if you get my comment at #60 pinned on your door.
I don’t think PZ has lost his edge, and I don’t think most of us here have either.
The lack of cat taco recipes, or cat l’Orange main dishes has no bearing on the atheist edge.
This is vague. But that may be my fault: I’ll try to clarify the conceptual distinction I’m drawing.
Deontological statement: “Democratic political systems are inherently better than non-democratic political systems, irrespective of the results they produce.”
Consequentialist statement: “Democratic political systems tend to be better than non-democratic political systems because, on balance, they tend to produce better results for the wellbeing of most people in society.”
The first identifies democracy as an inherent good, the latter as an instrumental good. Of course they lead to the same conclusion in many cases. But the difference is that an adherent of the former view will always want to make institutions more democratic, even if this makes them worse (for instance, replacing appointed judges with elected ones, something which has been an enormous disaster in the US). An adherent of the latter view, by contrast, will only want to make institutions more democratic where this is likely to cause them to produce better results (“better” from the point of view of human wellbeing)?
However, for a minute let’s ignore this distinction, and assume as axiomatic your position that “legitimate government derives from the consent of the governed”. On what ground does compulsory voting ensure that governments’ powers derive from the consent of the governed? Does a higher turnout automatically make governments more legitimate? Even if the extra people voting are doing so in order to avoid sanctions for non-compliance, rather than because they actually believe in the legitimacy of the process or support the result?
Again, let’s imagine for a minute that I’m someone who rejects the legitimacy of parliamentary democracy (say, because I’m a Marxist who thinks bourgeois democracy is a sham, or an anarchocapitalist who opposes the state completely). Let’s say that, for this reason, I choose not to vote, because I don’t want to create the impression that I view the elections or their results as legitimate. Then let’s imagine that a compulsory voting law comes into force, and I therefore vote – even though I’d rather not do so, and don’t believe that the process is legitimate – purely because I don’t want to be fined for non-compliance. Am I, therefore, expressing “consent to be governed” by participating in the election under threat of sanctions? If so, this is a rather odd use of the term “consent”.
Unless one happens to be an asylum-seeker in mandatory detention, in which respect Australia is actually nastier than the US. Though in general you’re right.
However, there’s no evidence from cross-country comparison to suggest a general link between compulsory voting and a higher quality of life or greater equality. Of course, the number of countries with compulsory voting is too small to make this a particularly meaningful comparison, so I’m not excluding the possibility that you could be correct; but at the moment, there’s no evidence on which to assert any link between compulsory voting and quality of life or greater equality.
Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn’t. But compulsory voting, while it could be called egalitarian, is hardly anti-authoritarian; it’s precisely the opposite.
[Previous tread]
@ Chas
Shhhh Chas, you are giving my game away. I agree with what you say (I make my own pizzas from scratch.) My point is to get Benjamin to get more involved with his food. To start making his own healthier food. It may be too much to expect a “from scratch” pizza, but a simple quick and tasty self-made meal might be inspiring and empowering.
(Benjamin, I’m sorry if I seem a bit like mother hen but your food comments give me gastly gastronomic nightmares.)
@ Carlie et al [cost of english muffin pizzas]
Not nearly as expensive as you make out. For one, we don’t use the whole muffin as a base, but cut each in half to make two thinner rounds. For the paste, use a smidgen of the Italian uncondensed stuff. (I usually use basil pesto, slice of tomato, fresh herbs, sliced olive, feta cheese, slivers of chirozo. Olive oil after baking. … you can also use vegetable offcuts on the mini pizzas. Stuff that might otherwise have been wasted. This really is very cheap.)
@ Dr Bunsen
Absolutely no clue… it is completely crazy. I had the idea that teh Cephalopodic Oberlawd was controlling teh kittehz as sockpuppets or zombies.
“Who’s your father?” The text in the speech bubbles is OTT. (Linky)
………………………………..
@ Walton
A lot of people appreciate your input, even if not always in agreement. There really is an advantage in being a succinct as possible though.
@ Lord Polonius
QFT!
……………………….
“your noble son is mad” … Is Freddie Wong the new Monty Python?
llewelly: *snerkle*
####
Repost from the Ledger because I amuse myself:
Original comment:
My response:
All my hopes of going to Merry Olde England and finding a better place than here fade into nothingness.
*sigh*
I hadn’t planned on going to Vermont, but I am planning to be at the Rhinebeck Festival (academic and financial situation permitting). Unfortunately I doubt I’ll be able to attend both meetups.
Walton: tl;dr.
Also: bored now.
heh heh.
Finally, done working for the day. Phew.
Ah well.
You’ve stretched out my claim from it being “a social good in general” to an a priori good in itself, with presumably no exceptions. I just want to note that before going on.
You’ve changed quite a bit then. You could be a Kantian and have exactly the same ethical positions, only justifying them differently. It doesn’t matter much, except that I think utilitarianism or consequentialism make it easier to understand ethical judgments and communicate them.
What follows from higher turnouts (in a relatively stable democracy with minimal electoral corruption) is that more people are involved in the functioning of their social environment. One consequence of this is that more people cannot pretend to lack responsibility for what is happening in their society when they fail to vote. The Athenians had a word for such people: idiōtēs.
I of course admit many vote for bad candidates and bad policies. I know you agree they should have the freedom to do so, and I assert this not as an axiom but based on the evidence that democracies do function well and tend to benefit most in society, particularly those who make the democracy function well by participating in it. (Of course, voting is only one way to participate, a fact which many of the “I’ll not vote as a protest” people take for granted.)
Like it or not, voting for bad candidates is a negative consequence of a society recognizing the right of everyone (or nearly everyone) to vote, whether freely or compulsorily. If you already accept this negative consequence, which is present in any functioning democracy, then why is it relevant? More people voting doesn’t give you license to assume a majority of them would vote for “bad” candidates, or whatever would be sufficient to justify the claim that the effects of coercion outweigh the positive effects.
If they’re opposed to democracy in principle, it’s still their society, and they still have an incentive to direct its future, which in a democracy (assuming they haven’t succeeded in their desired revolution) means voting among other things. They can certainly benefit from it, despite being opposed to the system itself, so the extent to which this “harms” their cause by “forcing” them to use the current system to their advantage is debatable.
Produces what? Would you please finish that thought?
I can only barely imagine this. Since you’ve given no information about the hypothetical candidates, it’s a bit easier to forget that in every case a person would benefit more one way or another, though some may not know which.
*shrugs* Ok. Whatever. If everything I write is going to be met with complaints about its length, rather than engagement with its content, then I won’t bother in the first place.
(consciousness razor: I apologize for not responding, but it’s getting late, and I’m not going to inflict more debate on those who are evidently sick of it. Whatever. It’s a trivial issue, and I’ve spent a disproportionate amount effort on it this evening, more out of vanity than objective necessity.)
Walton:
I’m sure they’d rather see 13 screenfuls from you than 13 words from me.
Walton,
What if it were empirical shown that compulsory voting ended up having a positive effect for society (e.g, lowering poverty rate, increasing average life span, etc.)? Would you still be against it then?
Re: PZ and Teh Kittez – So socialism is a huge, scary cephalopod with mind-controlling powers? And he only needs to touch you with his tentacle for you to become a minion? Sounds like the FSM has some competition :P
————————————–
I guess I should be glad I had some ibuprofen leftover from my surgery this past June. It’s still good, might as well make some use of it. Aside from now being pain-free so I can sleep better, it seems to have eased the swelling a bit.
————————————–
Caine – Missed the part about your pancreas still being a PITA in my “yay no cancer!” moment. I hope that gets resolved soon.
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Why do they show several Magic Jack commercials in a row? It seems ever since we upgraded the downstairs TV, this happens at least once every time I watch.
Gentlefolk, I present to you the sad squirming spectacle that is TylerD. So repulsive I don’t even wanna step on him – not worth the rags I’d have to burn after wiping down my spiked waders.
Nope.
No, I wouldn’t.
(There. Concise enough for everyone’s tastes?)
====
Oh, Benjamin… that’s not true. I like you, as do most other people, and your participation here is very much valued. Being occasionally criticized (as we have all been) doesn’t mean people don’t like you.
Constant universal popularity is not a possible or a desirable goal. Like any of us, all you can do is to say and do what you think is right, change your mind when appropriate, and hope that it works out for the best.
Ugh. Reprehensible troll is reprehensible.
“So 11,12,13,14,15,and 16 year olds cannot give consent? Why not?”
I want to just say “because the law says so”, but that’d be playing into his argument.
I’m tempted to throw a snark in there: “No matter how much she may claim to ‘want it’, it will never be legal for you to have sex with a 12-year-old. Sorry.” But I’ll be nice and leave it out.
Fact-check, please?
And a further lesson in Consent 101:
In most places, people can’t give consent to a person in a position of authority over them. For instance, I’m teaching about 35-ish undergrads this semester (ages about 19-24). If I were to have sex with one of them, it would be rape, as I’m in a position of authority over them (as their instructor). It doesn’t matter whether the student wants to sleep with me or not.
(From last thread)
Oh, it’s not that I think it’s not funny, because it is. She’s got a couple of more characters up her sleeve for the new series. I’ve seen some clips and they’re hilarious.
I just don’t like how she’s using certain stereotypes. I wasn’t entirely comfortable with Ushi, but Dushi was much worse. While Ushi was (mostly) playing on cultural differences, Dushi was mainly a blackface act, and playing dumb. A stupid caricature. Thankfully, she just did it for one season.
For your enjoyment:
– Ushi and Donny Osmond part 1 and part 2 (or, as Donny Osmond exclaims, “you should hear the rest of it”). He nearly pisses himself.
– Ushi and Dan Karaty, who is in the jury of the Dutch So You Think You Can Dance with her. Usually, with international stars, who don’t know who Wendy is, there has been a photo op earlier, with Wendy as herself. With Dan this wasn’t needed, of course.
– And of course, she has misheard the lyrics to their hit, as with The Three Degrees
Never mind. I was wrong.
It wouldn’t be rape (assuming the student were 18 or older), but it would be my ass being booted out of my TA position.
Last Thread:
drbunsen, congratulations on your return to solidity. :)
How’s the stomach?
–
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No fair, everyone else got a long response…kidding, kidding, :P.
Anyway, enough has been said already.
Thanks you guys, I can run 5k so I’m pretty sure it’s stress-related…Took an Aspirine anyway, and the Jameson also seemed to help.
Thoughts on 9/11 :
Sam Harris
Chris Hitchens
Rorschach:
As a doctor, you know well that taking an aspirin daily is recommended for men of . . .a certain age . . .who have cardiac risk factors.
Jameson can only make it sweeter going down (as you also know-ching!).
Thanks for checking in.
I kinda liked the episodes Moffat wrote directly, they had more of an edge than (say) the last two. Even back when Russel T Davies was lead, Moffat’s eps were great (Blink to name one).
USA? Weren’t they in Italy this season? -.-
My brother watches them, so I catch bits when I’m in the kitchen. That they’re still going makes me sad.
Now that more people have seen it, I’m going to point out that there were a lot of editing boogers that really bothered me (going from memory). Some intrascene transitions jumped too far (actors teleporting across the room offcamera). The two-faces-on-one-screen added nothing to the emotion of the scene. There was one really obvious Star Wars-like wipe up (or whatever it’s called) transition, I kept waiting for more of it to make it a “thing”, but nope, just a crappy one-off. And the whooole high FPS fight scene at the end had lousy choreography. I’m expecting the person who usually does the designing of those scenes to have been on vacation or something (will find out hopefully in the Confidential).
Rorschach @86: Thanks for the links. As usual, Hitchens’ was interesting – much that I agree with, although it’s in his typical hyperbolic style, and some to disagree with. And Harris, as usual, writes a lot of gibberish that gives you a headache trying to figure out what he’s trying to say, if anything.
This is a distraction tactic on his part, of course – he wants to obscure the clear difference between what consenting adults do, and the sexual exploitation of children. While the exact age of consent is of necessity arbitrary, there is a clear difference between the capacity to consent of an adult and a prepubescent child (or a non-human animal) – in terms of ability to understand what is consented to, and of power differential between the parties. In practice, the law (certainly in the UK) recognises the arbitrary nature of any specific age of consent (16, in the UK): the 16-year-old who has non-coercive sex with his just-underage girlfriend will be treated much more leniently than the grown man who seduces a 13-year-old, and rightly so.
Yeah, the Moffat episodes are pretty fun. I really enjoyed Let’s Kill Hitler, despite a little bit of ham from Kingston. The last two were completely forgettable though.
(More from last thread)
I’d tell you to get a room, you tow, but that’s a bit redundant, isn’t it?
Here‘s a song for you.
T-shirt for Brother Ogvorbis.
Good morning
Compulsory voting
I think it would be completely useless to solve the problems of the voting systems and probably have some undesirable effects.
People who can’t be bothered to invest 15 minutes into voting most likely won’t be bothered to invest several hours into educating themselves about the choices they have.
In a multi-party system like Germany I’d fear for 2 things to happen:
-Some people just vote for the “big ones”, because they know the names
-Other people might vote simply because of the adds (I suppose there are those already) This is especially problematic in respect to far right parties whose adds most often display positions most of us could actually agree with, like better work, better schools, family friendly politics and so on.
Only of course if you look behind the adds, you get “better work for Germans only, schools like in the Emperor’s days, and aetero-married-sah-mummy families only”.
On bad days I’m even in favour of handing people a multiple-choice test before they’re allowed into the booth, like, what year is it, what do you elect today, match the most important politicians to their parties.
I think that somebody who wants to vote for JFK is about as fit to vote as somebody who wants to vote for Winnie the Pooh.
Alethea
I think that issue could be solved better by implementing a different system in which you don’t have to register to vote, but are entitled and get your “invitation” to vote automatically once you become of age.
BTW, I think it’s OK to express your disappointment with the candidates and parties by voting “not valid”. When I felt creative I wrote down why I “wasted” my vote like “I want better daycare institutions but neither of you favours them”
But as I pointed out here the other day, perversely the 16 year old who is legally entitled to screw her partners brains out, if she sends a pic of her tits to her boyfriend, can be put on the sex offender register for distributing child porn, and the BF for possession, in Australia and the US (probably the UK as well). And vice versa. Which is utter madness.
Compulsory voting : I’ve seen it work here in Australia, as compared to the state elections in Germany with 50% or less voter turnout, where you never know what the electorate is really thinking because half of them can’t be bothered to go to the polling booth. You have rights as a citizen, and also obligations. One of them should be voting.
Ben # 65
Excellent response to the douchenugget. If they don’t get that, it’s (obviously) because they’re so hung up on forbidding homosexuality that they won’t even for one second seriously consider a concept (like consent) that would make them question their own prejudices.
OMFG, funniest vid I’ve ever seen !
Romance, Christian vs Atheist
MRA: “Women make less because they work less.”
[citation needed]
MRA: “WELL THIS PERSON I WAS DISCUSSING WITH MADE A COUNTER-CLAIM TO A STATEMENT I MADE ABOUT THE PRISON SYSTEM, CITE THAT. HA! ALSO, I CAN CITE MASCULINIST SOURCES SO EVEN IF YOU CITE FEMINIST SOURCES I WIN.”
I don’t have to back up the claims of my fellows, y’know. The fact that you’re asking me to do so indicates that all you’re interested in is waving your e-dick around.
MRA: “YOU’RE SELECTIVELY CALLING FOR SOURCES AND EMBEDDING XKCD TO DO SO, THAT MAKES YOU A DISHONEST TROLL. I’M SO CLEVER LOLOLOLOL.”
…waving around the e-dick it is. I’ll be sitting here sipping a beer, waiting for you to stop bullshitting and start discussing.
-still sipping that beer- Some people really aren’t interested in discussion…
Yeah, some aspects of the sex offender registry are pure madness. Having pedophiles there is quite reasonable of course. However, as Ed Brayton has posted previously, there are many people there who really don’t belong there.
From The Economist:
There are people have to register as a ‘sex offender’ for urinating in public, streaking or mooning. It’s ridiculous.
If there ever was an atheist creed, it has to be this one :
Hitchens vs God
First Approximation: Seems like that the ‘sex offender’ registries are being used to enforce puritanical values rather than document dangerous offenders…
I WISH we had these. I think they should be required. Every election there are surprise ballot initiatives I’ve never heard of. There’s an election on Tuesday and I don’t even know what it’s for, much less what the results would mean, and of course the local paper website is no help. I started to complain about it to my spouse, and he said “you say that every election”. DARNED RIGHT I DO.
On voting: making things compulsory is a negative-results kind of coersion. What about positive? Vote, get a receipt, and you get another $5 off of your tax bill (or the equivalent for people who don’t file tax returns).
I did take that into account – I calculated on the basis of 12 rounds instead of 6.
Initial cost on those ingredients is huge compared to canned pizza sauce, though. I was just pointing out that it’s another case of having to have money to save money – cooking from scratch is often only cheaper if you have already spent the money to stock a pantry fairly well in the first place.
For the same reason we don’t let them vote, and don’t let them sign any legally binding agreements – because their brains aren’t developed enough for them to properly understand the long-term consequences of their actions. This is also why we don’t prosecute either of them when they’re both underage and “consenting”, because neither is legally in the position to knowingly take advantage of the other.
random thoughts: Advertising seems to circumvent critical thought to the point where I wonder if we should not completely ban certain advertising techniques or in certain contexts (medication, anyone?) period. This is to prevent an imbalance of power going to the moneyed interests, or the interests in control of the media and advertising.
Carlie #101:
Yes, but making voting compulsory emphasizes that voting is not simply one’s right, but one’s civic duty.
But then you could also do other convenient things as well, like merging voting with the income tax deadline. You file your taxes and then you get to vote on whatever needs to be voted on.
But that’s just my Canadian Pro-Big Gubmint side talking…
Giliell #93:
Because we all know that everyone who doesn’t vote doesn’t want to.
Cheap food: try IKEA. We ate for about 12 euros there yesterday. Well, okay, more than ten times that amount if you count everything we bought*. So I guess that’s the trick: get in, eat, get out, don’t buy anything. Over here, they have a reasonably good biological, vegetarian pasta dish for little money. And if you get their club card, coffee or tea is free, including refills. At least, over here, in the Netherlands. YMMV as usual.
* Actually, some of it was stuff we needed and had at least contemplated buying.
Addendum to 103 and 104: I just realized that a tax break might seem inconsequential or be ignored, and voter suppression can still exist by other means.
Arguments against compulsory voting are wholly specious, because compulsory voting doesn’t mean you can’t just spoil the ballot or write someone/thing in.
Setár,
[association]
One of my pet peeves: advertising where the claim is that X is “free” if you purchase Y.
(Equivalent to saying a bus trip is free, so long as you pay to enter the bus)
For example: I remember when mobile phones first became an ordinary consumer product (me, I was using a brick* back in 1991 for on-call purposes; currently, I neither own nor possess a mobile) and phones were advertised as “free” — so long as you committed to paying hundreds of dollars for the duration of the contract.
(That lasted a few years, indicating it worked on the rubes)
—
* Almost literally: it was roughly the same size and weight as an actual brick (maybe even a bit heavier).
Oh, hey Walton. I had to leave & was mostly just teasing you – in view of other comments.
John #107:
I don’t know if that’s ever been allowed in Canada; all the time here I’ve seen providers advertise the phones as being $0, not “free”.
I know a place in Vancouver that has a lot of these phones mounted on the outside walls as ornaments.
Hello folks, this is my first post on the Thread. I’m a technical writer and a US government contractor who is working on SDLC documentation for one of the Departments. I’m also an SF/F fan, a strong agnostic, and an ex-UU (if there is such a thing). Nice to meet y’all.
oblate666, welcome to the Thread. Be duly warned that the ‘strong agnostic’ label might draw you some criticism, as it’s an indicator of accommodationism which is…*ahem* not taken very well around here, to say the least.
Thanks, Setar. I’ve been around Pharyngula so I know the score. I was tempted to not say anything about my beliefs But I’ll be damned if I’m going to change my mind for Pharyngula.
I’m not doctrinaire for anyone. Not now, not ever. And I’ve argued with my father the atheist about this topic extensively so I’m ready.
BTW, I am the next door neighbor to the Beast. It borrows sugar from me every now and then and I watch It’s cat when It’s out preparing for Armageddon. :)
Where I live, advertising prescription-only drugs is forbidden. Doesn’t seem to be a problem with that, excepting Pfizer’s constant attempts to circumvent the law, which are made possible by the fact that their, ahem, leading brand is already insanely well-known.
I wonder what our local proponents of drug legalization have to say about the concept of prescription-only medicine.
Oh, likewise! Srsly, the terms “complementary” and “with no additional charges” already exist. Why not fucking use them?
Hi Oblate. Welcome to TET.
So, I went to a wedding yesterday and, despite my fears, actually had a good time. I was there trough the whole migration from the family house to the church to a park where pictures were taken to the reception, so that’s about 12 hours or more and it passed surprisingly quickly.
It was the first time I went to church (after a couple of years) without feeling any compulsion to follow the church rules and take some part in the prayers, even if it’s just making a sign of cross when appropriate. I only stood up and sat down when everyone else did and that was about it. I’ve also noticed that quite a number of people didn’t participate any more than me.
The religious thing I didn’t expect was a prayer before the meal. It wasn’t a classical prayer, but this song about how Virgin Mary is our nation’s queen – a delightful combination of excessive patriotism and conflating it with religion. It was especially inappropriate since a lot of the guests (family on one side) are from the neighboring country which is also more or less Catholic, but obviously can’t be included into the whole “Mary, our nation’s queen”. Anyway, that part was very gauche.
Heroin used to be legally available on prescription to addicts in the UK. The system worked quite well. But then heroin’s not intrinsically that harmful: with clean needles and a reliable supply of known purity, addicts can live pretty normal lives, while if they must rely on street supplies and re-used needles, they are in great danger; so it was medically ethical, as well as legal, to prescribe heroin. I doubt you could find a medical justification for prescribing crack or crystal meth.
Welcome to the Walton Channel. All Walton all the time!
:-þ
Indeed. I would like to see all drugs legalized but those two killers make me think twice about that stance. Could they be regulated? It seems unlikely.
My favorite argument against Walton-style dissertations in blog comments:
No facebook for me today. A meme of posting one’s status as what one was doing when the towers fell is spreading like wildfire. I am intensely sick of the wallowing. For possibly the only time ever, George Will has something intelligent to say.
Carlie:
Oy. A fine example of pointless wallowing. What difference does it make what someone was doing? None. I really dislike such indulgent silliness.
What is so special about 10 years, anyway?
I have found it impossible to watch or listen to the BBC today, since it seems to think that the only news story worth covering is the tenth anniversary of Sept 11th. Every program seems to be a special from New York looking at “what it all means”.
Where the hell have you been? Of course we USAnian are this dumb.
Matt:
If anything, it’s even worse here in the U.S., many channels have been running 9/11 wallow shows for the whole week leading up to today, and of course, such shows will be dominating today. Bleargh.
KG: I’m under the impression that many of the dangers of drugs are primarily consequences of their illegality. I understand that ecstasy would be a candidate for therapeutic use (in psychotherapy), if it were legal.
Hello, everybody!
My little sister’s wedding was yesterday and everyone had a blast. So, woo hoo!
Carlie:
I’m with you about the fb meme. Blech. That kind of shit strikes me as silly self-aggrandizement.
Francis Fukuyama has an excellent article in today’s Observer.
@ Rorschach
Hitchens vs god.
A good link. However he appears to have made a quite substantial error (about 5:30) :
There where several prior stages. Consider for example that magic is quite a different animal to religion. In its primary form, magic is a person’s attempt at understanding hir environment and hir relationship to it. This was an admixture of truth and fantasy expressed most clearly in attempts to influence nature. We call this magic. People trying to understand and affect nature directly. Later this task (and responsibility) was given over to a professional magician. In both cases we are considering a direct relationship between people and their environment. Very much like science. ( We might even say: Science is efficacious magic, alternatively, magic is inefficacious science.)
Religion is quite a different thing. Instead of the direct relationship to nature we see above, people started including an supernatural intermediary in this endeavor. At its best this intermediary was conceptual (though perhaps represented by art or ritual) but at its worse (I’m looking at you, Yahwe) was taken very literally and used as a means of social control.
Maybe (and it may also be true that brevity is the soul of wit). But in political debates I’m less interested in writing witty, memorable or entertaining posts (something which isn’t my forté anyway) than in getting to the right answer; and I’ve long since learned that I’m not capable of discussing complex political and moral issues – in regard to which it’s necessary to qualify one’s statements, to be precise and unambiguous, to define one’s terms, to back up one’s claims with evidence where appropriate, and to address oneself to the specifics of what one’s interlocutors are saying so as to avoid constructing strawmen – without writing a great many words.
At the risk of being ridiculously self-referencing, I’d point out that this very discussion is an example of the problem I’m describing. I could try to say something trite and memorable right now, like “concise philosophy is bad philosophy” or “if you can make a political argument fully in fewer than 500 words, it probably isn’t very convincing”. But neither of those statements would actually be true, as categorical generalizations; there are philosophical works which are both concise and good, and there are political arguments which can be made adequately and convincingly in far fewer than 500 words (the argument for same-sex marriage, for instance). It simply depends on the subject-matter, the parameters of the debate and the complexity of the issue: I would not claim that there is a correlation between the length of a post and the strength of its analysis (we can all think of plenty of counter-examples), but I would say that I find it hard to discuss complex and subtle issues in few words, and that my doing so inevitably leads to a certain degree of analytical superficiality. Which is why it’s necessary for me to write a couple of paragraphs in explaining why I write long posts, rather than a couple of sentences.
Isn’t religion a more sophisticated version of magic? It also describes the relationship between humans and their environment, just in a more abstract way.
An interesting book which contrasts the two is “Religion and the Decline of Magic: Studies in popular beliefs in sixteenth and seventeenth century England” by Keith Thomas.
http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Decline-Magic-sixteenth-seventeenth/dp/0195213602/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1315750044&sr=8-2
I’ve no coffee in the house. :(
brokensoldier sighting !!!!
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/09/11/a-free-speech-poll/comment-page-1/#comment-49358
Bummer!
I have been meaning to ask you how you are getting on with Len Deighton, if indeed you have even started.
Especially since, for the vast majority of people I know, the answer is “watching it on tv”. I grant exceptions to anyone who was actually there, or somehow directly connected to someone who was in danger, but for most of the country? No.
Caine, I’m glad that pancreatic cancer has been ruled out. My maternal grandfather died from it. And I’m so sorry to
hearread that your pancreas is still giving you grief. I really hope that it gets sorted out. Well.BTW, Josh’ comment about hating your pancreas, reminds me of a SMBC cartoon. A recent but good one.
Matt:
I have been so swamped lately that it’s taken me a month to get halfway through the Ludlum book that I started. Game Set Match is next in the pile o’ spy books– I’ll let you know when I start it. :)
@ Oblate 666
Welcome on board.
I take that as a challenge. (Sellers as Oblate vs Kato as Theophontes)
Setar
It’s not as if I hadn’t adressed that issue later in the same post.
You know, you don’t need compulsory voting to make sure that everybody who’d like to vote can vote. You just have to get rid of voter registration processes and over-complicated residency rules.
Here, everybody over 18 living in the respective area get’s a “votingcard” some time before the election where they tell you where the nearest location is, when it is, and ask you to please request a mail-vote if you can’t go there, or tell them where you’d like to vote instead of your home location and that in cases of sick child or broken leg you can still request to vote via mail until 12:00 on election day.
Usually there are even volunteers collecting people who can’t walk, every nursery home has its own booth and people can vote without having to get out of their beds.
Do you think those are enough meassures to make sure that everybody who wants to vote can actually do it totally without invoking any kind of obligation?
Oblate
Welcome to the TET
/Audley
Oh, that’s bitter. I’d mail you some if that worked.
Oh boy, am I in for it…
But my powers of falsification are as strong as yours, Master! :P
Welcome, oblate777
Who would damn you for changing your mind? What kind of sick bastard would do such a thing?
Being an atheist doesn’t imply being doctrinaire or dogmatic. Perhaps your father is, but that is not what it means to disbelieve in gods. Are you “agnostic” about the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter bunny?
oblate777 says:
11 September 2011 at 9:13 am
I read some of Frazer’s The Golden Bough some years ago, and if I remember correctly, the author made essentially the same point as Theophontes, namely that magic is in a sense a sort of proto/pseudo science. It assumes the world works according to certain rules, and that if you know those rules then you can predict or even influence the world.
Religion on the other hand takes the view that the world is controlled by intelligent beings, and that if you want to influence events, rather than doing so directly you have to appeal to the god that controls them.
I suppose the latter could be seen as a subset of the former in that presumably if the gods can control something they must be doing it according to some sort of rules, but maybe that is beyond the concept of primitive magical beliefs. (IIRC Frazer also described some examples of overlap between the two, including using magic to affect the gods). In any case, there is still a significant practical difference between “we can do this if we are skilled/knowlegable enough” vs. “we have to ingratiate ourselves with a higher power”.
Of course, this all assumes that the 121 y.o. Golden Bough (or at least that part of it) is accurate.
The other interesting thing that Frazer claims is that while religion and religious practices vary substantially across the world, magical beliefs tend to be very similar. (Typically involving things like “wearing a talisman made from part of a strong animal will grant strength”, “ritually acting out a successful hunt can help ensure the hunt is successful”, and converesely “getting all your cooking gear ready before the hunt gets back will jinx the hunt”).
If it is true that these are more or less universal beliefs, I wonder if these forms of magical thinking are actually a result of how our brains work. (E.g. a tendancy to imagine patterns or causation where there is none, or to anthroporphomise non-human or inanimate things).
Walton,
I for one appreciate the length that you use to make your points. Lacking an informed opinion on many of the topics that draws you, the comprehensive nature makes it easier for me to access the topics.
___
Setar,
Phones were free with commitment in Ontario for years.
___
Rorscach,
This was an unexpected analogy, but wow, it had rhetorical impact.
___
Oblate,
Welcome. New people are great. I see you have the idea, comment often. Strong agnostic means . . ? I ask because there is some variation in what I have encountered people to mean by that.
___
Beatrice,
Glad the wedding worked out, I know you were a little concerned.
___
Audley,
And yays for sister as well.
Rather than discussing what people were doing when the planes hit the twin towers, I will be asking people what they have been doing since then to make the world better. I suspect that many of the answers I receive will be no more useful than knowing what I was doing (driving my car).
Beatrice, mag. math., anormalement indécente:
Audley Z. Darkheart OM, purveyor of candy and lies:
Same?
SQB,
Unless I’m mistaken in thinking Audley is from US, we were not even on the same continent.
Imaginesabeach –
I like that.
I’m at my office answering the crisis line for my state psychological association. So far it has been pretty quiet. Which is good.
Bravo! And,, with your permission, I would like to steal that and toss it to some of the RWAs with which I work.
Sadly, I recall doing a lot of things to prevent it from becomming a worse place
Hmm, I don’t know. I find superstitious beliefs to vary even more than religious ones. You could say that the USA and Germany are both christian, at least in cultural terms. But in Germany many people hold the belief that actually buying things for a baby before the birth will mean the pregnancy goes wrong while the USA has baby-showers (much more sensible, if you ask me). No German bears will eat you for stepping on cracks, and magpies are not related to magic and prophecy.
Sure, those are rather modern things, but also, where do you draw the line between magic and religion? If people belief in an animal soul that can be apeased or shared or gained, isn’t that religion, too?
I think we are perhaps too much stuck in the christian habbit to label non-abrahamic faiths “magic”
*drools*
* clutches pearls, heads for couch *
………………………………………
Watched Joe Biden’s speech on CNN. He’s a very articulate speaker. I am slightly concerned with his language though.
One idea that comes out strongly is that war must be waged on al Quada at all costs. Almost as if there is a group of people out there that are inherently evil and hateful of American people (who in turn are the paragons of good*). He targets the symptoms (terrorism, radicalism, attacks on Americans, etc) through their totem, Al Quada.
I really don’t think this is going to help. There is a machine in place, paid in large part with US petrodollars which is simply not going to wind down while we focus on its products (to wit religious terrorists). The ghost in this machine is a meme called Yahwe. There is no point in killing the few minds it has infected. Tomorrow there will be a thousand more springing from the ground. The people who are going to win this fight are the ones that are prepared to fight it on the level of the underlying problem. But this is impossible when the same infection afflicts the protagonists on both sides.
….
*Some magic involved here. Perhaps it is the passport that one carries that makes one good… or bad. Give someone an American passport and they become incapable of being as intrinsically evil as one without. (Hey wait, that could be a solution!)
That’s a good question. I don’t know how I could answer that. I’ve lived half my life in a post-9/11 world. I’m still young and trying to figure out how I can contribute to society. My long term goal is to become a researcher in some field of biology and contribute to broadening humanity’s understanding of the world around us. But that’s something that will take a lifetime.
Also, what things should they have done that they didn’t do, and what things they will do in the future.
I have “Rather than dwelling on where I was 10 years ago, I will spend time dwelling on those things I have done over the past 10 years to make the world better, and on those things I should have done to make the world better” on my FB. I didn’t think of the “in the future” part until I came back here. How do I edit my FB status? (I’m old)
Ok so post last night’s eye stabby, Mrs. BDC was up with me at 7:00 ready to finish attacking the yard. Bloody sclera and all.
She’s one tough hembra.
Does anyone remember how much “rememberance” there was at the 10 year anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P.. Murrow building in Oklahoma City?
SQB,
Nope, although it would be awesome if we were at the same wedding. :)
Holy Christ
It’s a few months old already, but I have to share a link to this movie.
It’s about a killer car tire.
Yep.
A killer car tire.
@ GravityIsJustATheory
Genau richtig!
Substantially yes. It is a classic work (and free to download). Be warned that it can be a little tedious (though very rewarding) to read.
@ Gilliel
Current religions (especially monotheistic) are fundamentally superstitious. This is easy to see, as they are so intolerant and insistent on following strict rules. Compare this with the Greek religion of the Golden Age, in which there where many paths to follow (“divine”) uplifting human aspirations. (What I would like to use as the definition.) These so called “pagans”, where wont to regard the early christians as atheiai.
That. Movie. is. awesome.
@ Audley,Beatrice
Has SQB told you that we went to the same little university in a tiny rural hamlet in Holland? (I even worked in the IKEA he mentioned upthread.)
My shift is almost over. I am going to head home and see if the hubby has been stirring my sauce (marinara) so that it doesn’t burn.
I’m glad that I volunteered today. It seemed like the right thing to do.
I woke up with a stupid allergy attack, so I took antihistamines and now I feel like I’ve been run over by a car. An angry car.
I have stuff to do today. I can’t mope about. Waa.
For those who are interested, this is another update to the situation I’ve found myself in, where my son’s football coach brings in a preacher to preach about god to the football team at the beginning of practices on Thursday evenings. This is at a public high school in Illinois.
My prior updates can be found in comments I’ve left in earlier editions of the endless thread, both here, and here. In my last comment, I explained that I had contacted the principal of the school, and that he said he would look into the matter the following week. He didn’t seem as concerned as I had hoped he would during the call, so I didn’t get a good fuzzy feeling from that conversation.
The following week, which was last week, I anticipated receiving a courtesy call from the principal to let me know that he had confirmed my son’s claims of religious proselytizing at practices (he sounded skeptical on the phone), and to assure me that the situation was being handled, and that the proselytizing would not happen again. But as the week dragged on, and after Thursday’s school day passed without hearing from him, I began to wonder if my complaint was being taken seriously.
My wonder was further elevated when I picked up my son from football practice that Thursday evening. I asked him how practice went, and he explained that once again the preacher was there, and once again babbling about the importance of god in one’s life, and specifically how the players needed to emulate him.
After hearing this, I felt as angry as I was when my son first brought this nonsense to my attention. I did manage to keep my cool though, and on the following day, I called the principal’s office. I couldn’t get through to the principal personally, so I left a very pleasant message on his voice mail explaining that I was merely following up with our discussion from the week prior, and I would appreciate a call back from him. Unfortunately, I never heard back.
I’m very close at this point to visiting an attorney, but I think I’ll wait until the principal has had an opportunity to explain why he didn’t call me back, and to explain why the proselytizing continued at another practice even though I had brought it to his attention the previous week. My hope is that he allowed the additional night of proselytizing to happen so that he, or the athletic director, could pop in, un-announced, and listen firsthand to what was being said. At least I hope that’s the case, but I’m not betting on it.
Anyway, I’ll be calling the principal tomorrow morning, and regardless of how things go with the situation this next week, I’ll post another update next weekend.
@ DavidH
Good luck with your next call. Hopefully it’ll go better than the last one. Thanks for keeping us up updated. I’m really interested to see how this turns out.
Thanks starstuff91. I’d like to stay upbeat and positive about this, but I have a really bad feeling that the principal isn’t with me on this. I hope I’m reading him wrong, but he hasn’t given me any reason to read him any other way.
Good luck, DavidH. I will be making a call to school myself tomorrow – we got a permission form to sign about the sex ed that will be happening in January, and the curriculum includes a presentation on abstinence and the movie Juno (BARF). It does also include info on STDs, but I want to be sure that they’re not being taught abstinence-only and for sure not from a religious perspective.
Mr.Fire – awesome.
I really hope it turns out right DavidH. I dunno that I’d be able to handle that kind of thing the same way you are.
DavidH – I hope you are not being brushed off. Would your son be able to record the preacher-fest? That is just really ridiculous.
Carlie – My sister is a science/health curriculum specialist in NYS. I will ask if there is a standard for sex ed. I sure hope they aren’t abstinence only freaks.
Almost.
Also, Delft, a “tiny rural hamlet”? Well, compared to where you work now, I suppose.
Hey everyone,
May I hit and run?
I wanted to pass this along, some of our usual fare with some interesting links http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/atheism_and_the_art_of_persuasion
Good luck on your quest, DavidH.
Finally, 9/11 anniversaries feel additionally bad for me with all the public god bothering :-\ bbl.
Carlie, what’s so bad about Juno? I saw it, and I don’t think it was anti choice or abstinence only. I wouldn’t like to see it used as sex ed, but to lighten up a bit and keep the kids interested, why not?
DavidH – I really appreciate that you’re not letting this drop, and thank you for the updates.
However, you’re already past the point where you should have been doing this in writing. The time for phone calls is over, and you’re undermining your ability to prove your case down the road by neglecting to create a paper (or electronic) trail. People can and will lie about whether they said a thing over the phone.
Please start sending written requests and complaints to the principal and all others who may get involved (school board, etc.). Document the problem and your requested solution clearly, with dates and details. Insist on a written response. Do not accept a “friendly phone call” from the principal as an adequate response; it isn’t. If you should have to consult the ACLU or an attorney, here or she will tell you the same thing, and will be frustrated with you that you didn’t start getting this down in writing before.
You’re doing a great thing, but please do it the right way. I want to see you prevail!
David H
Sad to hear that the principal isn’t more supportive. Hope you can bully him into doing something (Somtimes hints like “my brother in law who’s a lawyer has advised me to… can work wonders)
Poor Mr. is stuck on the Autobahn. I know there’s no such thing as fate, but this is the 5th time since we’ve known each other that he arrived on the scene of an accident first and had to do first aid.
*sigh*
Today I had a nice lesson in “3rd Reich denialism”. My brother in law’s boyfriend asked their grandma questions about her youth (you don’t have to prompt her much to get her started. Getting her to stop again is the problem). So he also asked “Did you notice that people vanished, communists and socialists and such?” “Did you heed what happened to the jews?”
Well, she answered him that “no, never, nothing, we only found out afterwards, we never knew. There was a bunch of Russian girls working in the factory, but they had it good, they got the same food we did. Of course, they told you if you didn’t behave you’d go to Dachau*, but no, we never knew”.
Ye-es, tons of your neighbours and friends vanish, never to come back, but you never ever notice anything. She had such a nice youth…
No, I didn’t say anything, no use.
*A Concentration Camp near Munich
consciousness razor – Thanks for the welcome. Also, when I started to respond to your post I Wiki-ed into the wonderful world of secularism and found that I am an agnostic atheist. Go figure! If you want to argue from there, be my guest. :)
Dhorvath – Thank you for the welcome as well. See above. :)
By the by, I’ve found something interesting in Wikipedia’s article on the First Amendment. Evidently some religious loon got a hand into it. Now it says that that separation of church and state “was imposed by judicial fiat in 1947.” A little research indicated that something smells here.
I would try to make the change myself right now but I have a feeling that an edit war would result. Perhaps I should tell the A.C.L.U.? It would be nice if a legal historian could explain why one scholar named Philip Hamburger shouldn’t get his way in Wikipedia.
DavidH:
I also hope this isn’t a brush-off, but I wouldn’t bet my truck on it.
general voting discussion:
I get the nice little booklet with a neutral summation of every proposition and pros/cons, plus a statement from every candidate (if they choose; some don’t and I am always wary of them). I vote by mail because the idea of standing in line and being surrounded with people makes my chest clench.
Some sort of incentive to show up/mail in a ballot might encourage some people who otherwise don’t vote. My preference would be something like 10 gallons of gas from a helpful local station, but that’s probably just silly. :)
I do wonder, though, if commercial enterprises would be up for some kind of voter reward coupon thing. Seems like encouraging people to vote would be seen as a patriotic thing and therefore good publicity. Certain groups always like to loudly proclaim their patriotism; maybe they’d be interested in putting their money/services where their mouth is. Um… Or not.
That’s why it’s called first aid. If you arrive fifth, it’s fifth aid.
Okay, I know, it’s a stupid joke. I hope it doesn’t take too long. Let’s drink to that he didn’t arrive on the scene of that accident even earlier.
====
Also, the Marble Saga continues. Thursday, my wife took our youngest to preschool and again the marbles were out. She had to argue with the staff to put them away. And no, the fact that older kids play in the same room after school, does not excuse this. For all I care the room serves as a sex shop after hours, as long as it a safe environment for the kids in general and our son in particular when he’s there.
When she picked him up, though, one of them said that she now understood what we meant when we told her that he tend to put things in his mouth. Well fucking duh! And even if he didn’t, he’s two years old, as are the other kids (or three, at the most). Kids do that kind of stuff. The staff, being professionals (and I use that word loosely) should be aware and keep an eye on the kids.
====
Josh, did you check those other Ushi interviews? I see that I didn’t link to the one with the Weathergirls yet, but now I have.
Three weeks of work – http://i55.tinypic.com/ifpd15.png
Why yes. That is a giant dome made up of voxels.
SQB
Oh, now I’ve watched just about every Ushi clip on the Web. Yes, it does play on stereotypes, but I can’t help myself find it so absurd and gut-bustingly funny. The Larry Hagman interview about gave me a seizure, especially when he starts saying “Harry Legman” too.
Wendy’s got a new show coming up?
Sourdough Update – So, pineapple/rye starter that I’ve been complaining about not starting? This morning, bam, full-on frothing sponge out of nowhere. Whoo-hoo! Now feeding with white flour to convert it over.
@Josh:
Yay sourdough! :D
SQB – what bothers me about showing Juno, in conjunction with an abstinence presentation and about sex ed, is that it presents the message that the best thing you can do if you get pregnant is go ahead and have the baby because everything will work out great in the end*. It’s another example in the long line of “don’t choose abortion ever!!” messages that teens get, and makes it that much harder for them emotionally to get one if they need it.
*unlike, say, the teenager in the church my spouse goes to now, who is pregnant and ended up in the hospital yesterday and almost died because her body isn’t ready for a pregnancy. But, you know, good thing she didn’t compound her sin by having an abortion after the out of wedlock sex!
Carlie:
I dunno… I’m far from as cynical about government, per se, as many here are, but even I get the willies about the government “explaining” (govsplainin’, perhaps?) the ballot to voters. Too much potential for influence, particularly on ballot provisions that have as their purposes changes to the governing status quo.
That said, in every jurisdiction I’ve ever lived in, this sort of voter information pamphlet has been available from nongovernmental sources, typically newspapers and/or nonpartisan groups like the League of Women Voters. It certainly is a useful function; I just think having the government do it is fraught with, if not actual peril, at least the appearance of peril.
Also Carlie:
I’m glad somebody said this. I’ve been feeling deeply conflicted during the run-up to the anniversary: I’m quite patriotic, actually — maybe moreso than is “cool” in this crowd — but I can’t escape the feeling that 9/11 has been so used for evil political ends that it’s hard for me to feel good about celebrating its memory. I have nothing but respect for those who risked and gave their lives to rescue their fellow humans… but their subsequent lionization has been in service of a politically opportunistic hypernationalism that has been, on balance, A Very Bad Thing®, and all the memorials, moments of silence, etc., just bring that all back for me.
One of the things that I most hate the W years for is that they’ve made my natural instinct to be proud of my country feel dirty and wrong to me, and I regret that.
? What does this mean?
Which part wasn’t ‘ready’?
Chas – eh, don’t know; we don’t know any details. I guess I shouldn’t have said “not ready” for a pregnancy as much as “one of those people whose body goes to hell during a pregnancy”. Lots of women find out they have systemic/preexisting health problems before they get pregnant, but teenagers usually haven’t had a lot of medical care and don’t know what can happen. And when you’re a teenager getting pregnant in a religious family, the odds of getting good prenatal care right from the beginning are close to nil (because you’re hiding it from your parents until it’s obvious). And, of course, it’s not like anyone educated her on the risks of pregnancy in general at any point in time so that she could make a reasoned decision about it in the first place.
Katherine Lorraine:
Dammit! And I was so proud of my 12-radius Minecraft dome!
Ok, then, at minimum a list of what the measures are that will be up for a vote and the wording thereof as it will be on the ballot. It’s surprisingly difficult to even find that out.
Just guessing, but probably the pelvic. Fully grown baby inside of half-grown girls don’t do that well.
It’s also a great strain on basically all organs, especially the kidneys. If this is happening at a point where the body is mostly occupied with growing itself, that can be the final straw.
Ummm… the highest rate of maternal mortality is girls under 15 and due to complications specifically related to pregnancy. Fertility is only one part of puberty. When I was 14 my hips were 31 inches at their widest/roundest and I was already rather tall. Do your really think that wouldn’t have had complications if I’d become pregnant? My period started at 13. By 15 I had gained very little weight in pounds but my hips had expanded several inches to about 34. We have periods starting in girls as young as 6. Menstruating and being able to become pregnant does not imply that the girl’s body can carry to term without her death.
Carlie:
Your newspapers don’t print a sample ballot? I’m surprised. I bet you have the legal right to request one from the local elections official (in CT, that would be the town’s Registrar of Voters; the office may be called something else in other places). But I agree with you that you shouldn’t have to go hunting for it, and I’d have no objection to a sample ballot, or a simple list of ballot races/question (i.e., without any explanation or interpretation) being pushed out to all registered voters.
Listening right this minute to NPR live
concert music from the Temple of Dendur
go to their home page – there’s a link – one piece has been completed and there are two or three yet to come.
Sad, meditative, classical music in memory of 9/11
@Moggie:
40 Meters Radius :D
On the subject of compulsory voting (I like it – a small price to pay for living in society – one is always welcome to leave), Hizbut-al-Tahrir has put out a notice to the press here, that they consider voting incompatible with Islamic values, and that any Muslim who votes has implicitly bowed to Western Values™. Not surprisingly the few Muslim MPs are all up in arms, and the press is asking questions about whether there’ll be ‘gangs’ keeping people away from the ballots in the ghettos.
I believe the traditional response is: fuck you, I made a dirt house!
Oh, and call me when you can do this.
Radio3 has been blessedly silent on the subject. I don’t think they said anything even to introduce the Bach Mass.
Danish TV has apparently been wallowing as one would expect. And people ask me why I don’t watch anymore …
SQB:
Oh, I’m sorry to hear that, it’s one nasty cancer. I was very relieved to hear I wouldn’t be dealing with it. The only thing I know right now is that mine has decided to be incredibly sensitive and I already have scar tissue from the two episodes, so it looks like a lifetime of pandering to the pancreas, so to speak.
Hahaha, yep.
Katherine Lorraine, tres cool!
Bitch please.
/Kubla Khan
@Moggie:
:O That’s awesome
starstuff@152 – Every time you engage the MRAs, homophobes and other jerks, here or elsewhere, you are doing something to make the world better. I haven’t saved any lives, or built anything, or done anything big, but I have done my best to raise children who are better than I am and who recognize and speak up against hate. That’s enough most days.
And go where?
This is analogous to the libertarian argument against minimum wages and working conditions; after all, they say, “if you don’t like your job, just quit and get a new one”. That’s wrong, because it ignores the realities of the job market, economic coercion, and inequality of bargaining power. In the real world, most people can’t just quit a job and get a new one when they feel like it.
It’s equally unrealistic, therefore, to argue that if one doesn’t like the society one lives in, one can just choose to leave society and its rules behind. After all, the vast majority of the world is governed by some government or other; short of moving to Somalia, or becoming a hermit in an uninhabited desert somewhere, one can’t escape governments entirely. And even moving from one state to another is difficult, thanks to immigration restrictions (which I oppose, but that’s another issue). Most people don’t, in practice, have the option to leave if they dislike their government’s policies.
Besides, the argument “if you don’t like the rules our society imposes, feel free to leave” could, on its face, potentially be used to justify any level of government coercion and oppression, not just trivial things like compulsory voting. While compulsory voting is a decidedly unimportant issue in itself, I’m disturbed by the arguments people are making for it: the notion that people should be compelled unnecessarily to participate in state functions, whether they agree with those functions or not, as an aspect of “civic duty”. People make much the same arguments for horrible practices, like the military draft.
I don’t have any duties “as a citizen”. I have moral duties as a person, but these duties are exactly the same wherever on the planet I happen to live, and whatever state happens to have issued the passport I hold: the obligations to respect others’ bodily and personal autonomy, to be kind and compassionate, to share any wealth I have with those who need it, to oppose abusive and cruel practices wherever I see them, and so on. There is no such thing as a “civic duty”. There are human duties, owed to one’s fellow humans by reason of being human; but one owes no duty whatsoever to one’s “country” (nation-states being arbitrary constructs) by reason of being a citizen.
Which is a position they should have the right to take. Not voting, after all, is an act of free expression, just as voting is an act of free expression. If they don’t believe in parliamentary democracy, it’s illiberal to force them to participate in its processes against their will.
@ImaginesABeach
Well, I do try to engage those kinds of people and I did change someone’s mind ON THE INTERNET(!) once, so that’s something.
I have a question for the people here that are older than I am: Were so many Americans this nationalistic before 9/11? I’m too young to remember much about how the country was before then and I’m constantly noticing how mindlessly nationalistic people are now a days.
I didn’t even know Walton was here right now and he’s all: Bam! another long post. But he does have a point, that’s a terrible argument (“you can just leave if you don’t like it”).
Notwithstanding my previously expressed ambivalence about the 9/11 anniversary hype, the version I just heard Queen Latifah do of the Star Spangled Banner (before the women’s singles final at the U.S. Open tennis tournament) was awesome.
Bill – Thanks for your remark about the Bush years. Made me feel the same.
Patriotism and nationalism are, in principle, hard to justify rationally. After all, there is no particular reason why one should owe any moral duties to the nation-state in which one happens to have been born, or why one should prioritize the interests of that nation-state or its inhabitants above those of humanity as a whole. Nor does it make a great deal of sense to be “proud” of one’s country – or, indeed, to be “ashamed” of it. Being a citizen of one country rather than another is usually accomplished by the accident of birth and/or descent; it’s rather strange to say that one is “proud”, or “ashamed”, of having been born in a particular place or to particular parents, or that one is “proud” or “ashamed” of the behaviour of others who happen to be citizens of the same nation-state.
The only tenable defence of patriotism and nationalism is an instrumental one: namely, that it fosters a sense of community solidarity and shared identity which is psychologically good for people. That may be true, though I’d also observe that it has some negative effects on society (the encouragement of tribalism and xenophobia, for instance, which typically leads to the unjust treatment of immigrants and of ethnic or national minorities). In any case, the argument “X doesn’t make sense, but it’s good for people to believe X anyway” is also used in defence of religion – although the analogy isn’t perfect, because religion (in its conventional Western theistic forms) requires one to accept unprovable supernatural claims, whereas nationalism does not.
And that blew up in my face. A woman asked me where I was when I heard the news. I said, “The more important question, though, is what have you done to make the world a better place in the last ten years.”
She smiled, and said, “I have witnessed 43 atheists, muslims and catholics to Jesus and they are all now members of my church.”
Then I said, “I was working.”
Kat:
I assume you’re using a mod (or 1.8) that lets you give yourself blocks? Otherwise, most of that 3 weeks must have been spent in the Nether collecting glowstone…
I play creative in multiplayer, and survival in single player.
@Brother Ogvorbis
That’s a little funny. But I’m sorry that didn’t work out so well for you.
I didn’t say it was a good argument (but it fits in a parenthetical). I intended to go back and actually read the arguments presented when I find the time, but that’s my opinion prior to that. (There’s a poll tax issue in the US, yes, but I’m not aware of that being an issue here.)
–o–
Whisky!
Dalwhinnie 15 year Highland
Cragganmore 12 year Speyside
Caol Ila 12 year Islay
Talisker 10 year Skye
Which one should I get?
Ogvorbis – I’m a little surprised anyone KNOWS 43 weak-minded people. I guess like attracts like.
Yes, the nation-state is a completely arbitrary construct. However, I don’t think it necessarily follows that you don’t have civic duties. In an ideal world there wouldn’t be nation-states. However, currently that is how the world is divided. Because of this, you get benefits from the state you just happen to be living in. By free primary and secondary education, by a police force that will protect you, by roads, etc. Granted the schools, police departments and roads are hardly perfectly, but you definitely get benefits from them. Why shouldn’t come with at least some civic obligations? Personally, I don’t see civic duties being about stupid nationalism, but about obligations to the community you are living in.
The porthole installation is about half way done.
I missed the first part for a visit to my best friend, which ended really badly. We haven’t had a fight in years. Dammit.
@Benjamin Geiger:
I was using the Build Mod, yea
Well, looking at US states there appears to be a correlation between voter turnout and standard of living. Wikipedia also states “The United Nations Human Development Index shows some correlation between higher standards of living and higher turnout”, though there is no reference.
Of course, correlation does not imply causation. However, this data is consistent with the hypothesis that the more people get to have a say in how society is run, the more they benefit from the resources of society. This to me makes it worth considering compulsory voting, though I’d like to see some empirical work studying it specifically. Even if the benefits are small, the penalties for those who don’t vote are so low that it would seem to be justified.
I disagree.
I understand where you are coming from (and had simmilar thoughts myself for a while), but “civic society” and “the state” are things that exist (even if they are arbitrary constructs, although the former is probably more like an emergent property of human interaction) and which (generally) benefit people, including you and me.
Now, I’m certainly not advocating blind obedience, “my country right or wrong”, but as long as we are part of society and benefiting from it, I think it is reasonable to say we have some sort of duty to support it, or at least those parts of it that benefit the general good. I suppose in a sense this is an extension of your general “human duties”, but I would say the existance of “arbitrary constructs” of which you are a member, which help advance human interests, and which you have benefited from does impose a (limited and non-absolute) “moral duty” to support it.
The alternative strikes me as being the sort of naive anarchist/libertarian/ultra-liberal/hippy -style thinking that sounds nice (“Imagine there’s no countries”) that in practice would just lead to social fragmentation and undermine the provision of “human duties”.
This doesn’t follow. Aside from the correlation-causation problem, you can’t take observations about the correlation between voluntary voter turnout and standard of living, and project that raising voter turnout through coercive means would also raise the standard of living.
It may very well be that the more politically-engaged and politically-active the population is, the higher the standard of living. I don’t know whether that’s true, but it’s a coherent hypothesis (it could be argued, for instance, that a more politically-engaged citizenry are better able to ensure that public policies serve their interests rather than those of the rulers), and is consistent with the evidence you’ve presented. However, in that case, voluntary voter turnout would be correlated with standard of living because higher voluntary voter turnout is evidence of a politically-engaged and politically-active citizenry. By contrast, where people are voting not because they are politically-engaged or -active but because they want to avoid a fine, voter turnout will no longer necessarily be correlated with the degree of political engagement of the population.
I’m thinking, though, about the extreme case. As I said on the last thread, suppose that Bob is a citizen who does not believe in the legitimacy of elections or parliamentary democracy (for whatever reason: he might be a Marxist-Leninist, an anarchocapitalist, a radical Muslim, or even a reactionary Catholic who believes in feudal monarchy), and refuses in principle to vote in any election. Suppose also that Bob lives in a country with the kind of compulsory-voting law you’re advocating. Let’s say that, the day after an election, Bob telephones the local electoral office or the police and says “I did not vote yesterday, because I object to the compulsory voting law in principle, and deliberately refused to obey it. I have no lawful excuse: I could easily have voted, but I chose voluntarily to break the law. Do your worst.”
What happens to Bob? Under the kind of law we’re discussing, presumably he gets a nominal fine imposed. Now suppose that Bob, on receiving a letter informing him of his fine, writes back and says “I refuse to pay this fine, because I object to the compulsory voting law, and am refusing to obey it as an act of protest. I could easily afford to pay it, but I won’t. Do your worst.”
What will happen to Bob then? Will he be threatened with criminal sanctions? Will the state seek to enforce the penalty through the civil courts, and seize his property to pay the fine? If so, then he’s being punished for a non-violent act of political protest; in my book, that’s not ok. If not, then the law is a dead letter, and there was no point in enacting it in the first place.
@Whisky:
I just recently had some Caol Ila and was extremely happy with it. I believe it was only a 5 year aging, so I suspect I would like the 12 year even more.
The others, I have no recent experience with.
Shall I tell you what you can do with your condescending ‘ummmm’? You can fucking shove it.
The question, a straightforward and specific one to Carlie, was satisfactorily answered by her. She doesn’t know. You do?
Got data? I don’t doubt that it’s true, but I don’t buy bare assertions (from anybody).
And my question was: what ‘complications specifically related to pregnancy’?
Still is.
do tell
I don’t know. I also don’t know why you are acting as if I’ve argued anything different. But thanks for sharing your anecdote.
This simply restates the claim. It’s a pointless assertion. I am not arguing that it’s incorrect. I am asking the follow-up question: why? What’s the problem?
I’ll just put you down as ‘maybe pelvis size’ and forget the attitude.
I am asking the question because under natural conditions, selection would never tolerate that kind of mismatch. Surely during the vast majority of human history and pre-history fertility did not precede a young woman’s capacity to carry to term and give birth as it does (allegedly) now. The very problem has to stem from recent and in some sense unnatural acceleration of menarche.
You asked a question. I gave you a potential reason for it, and why Carlie might have said it without thinking it was unusual to say.
I used myself as an example because it’s an example of teenage body structure/size. Why does that bother you so much? Do you really have no clue how you come across some times?
I don’t see why it couldn’t be there in spite of selective pressure. Selection may not favor it, but what would it matter unless the majority of females became pregnant at or soon after the onset of menses? Particularly if it only increases the chances of mortality for the girl, at which point you’re talking about a subset of girls and a subset of that subset who would be dying.
In terms of evolution I don’t see why it should be any more selected against than near sightedness or other conditions that may kill some, but not all people.
Please read this as neutral.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs348/en/index.html
“The risk of maternal mortality is highest for adolescent girls under 15 years old.1 Complications in pregnancy and childbirth are the leading cause of death among adolescent girls in most developing countries.2
Women in developing countries have on average many more pregnancies than women in developed countries, and their lifetime risk of death due to pregnancy is higher. A woman’s lifetime risk of maternal death – the probability that a 15-year-old woman will eventually die from a maternal cause – is 1 in 4300 in developed countries, versus 1 in 120 in developing countries.”
By the way, Chas, fuck you too.
@Sili #208
I like Speysides, generally, followed by Highland. Sky and Islay are a bit dry for me usually (though when you’re in just the right mood for them … bliss). The only specific name on your list I’ve drunk is the Talisker, which I’d call very dry indeed.
Actually I’m bloody jealous you even have this dilemma right now, you swine.
And sorry, your post didn’t come across as neutral to me. It came across as hostile. Your defensiveness is noted. I’m not interested in being your whipping post for the day so I’m checking out now. I’ll be back in a day or a week… and I’ll ignore you again now that I remember who you are.
You’re too much trouble to be worth it. Go find some one else to fight with, you problematic ass.
Oh yeah, and you can ignore my other comments. I read them before I saw the first part of your post. Forget it… you’re really not worth bothering with. Please, answer if for some reason you want to. But I’m just going to stay away from you… and that’s how it’s going to be. I’m going through a lot and I really can’t deal with you right now. So I won’t.
Indeed, that’s why I said I would like to see studies specifically looking at compulsory voting. The only evidence I could find looked only at voter turnout. I didn’t mean to imply that evidence conclusively showed a link between compulsory voting and standard of living, only that it was suggestive.
Not necessarily. These laws lead to greater voter turnout, even when they are not enforced. Regardless of whether you think a higher voter turnout is a good thing, it does accomplish that.
As irrational as non enforced voting law is, it does seem to be a nice compromise. It increases voter turnout and doesn’t punish those hell bent on not voting for whatever reason.
Gilell
Ah yes, the Evil Eye. Still infects many Jewish grandmothers in the US.
—
DavidH,
From the conversation you had with the principal, it sounded like he was fully complicit. He has no reason to follow up. I’d recommend trying the superintendent.
—
Bill Dauphin
Here’s what the Oregon pamphlet looks like (click one of the measures on the side for details). Pro- and op-ponents are allowed to purchase space to make their points, but the non-partisan bits come first. I don’t have much experience with other states’ methods.
Yeah. I guess some people have a really bizarre definition of making the world a better place.
Well, that’s only 4.3 per year. And she was most likely exagerating.
=============
And Doonesbury hit it today. Trudeau found exactly what I want to say. BD (I still can’t get used to him sans helmet) says,
Thank you, Gary Trudeau.
Haven’t caught up, will try to do so over the next days.
Have, however, found out that it’s within my finances to visit my uncle in Atlanta for a day or three before I go to Rhinebeck. If any Pharyngulites would like to meet us, I’m sure something can be arranged. Said uncle is an occasional lurker here and works on the genetics of rare hereditary diseases.
mattir, please check your e-mail.
Age of onset of menarche has gone down dramatically in the last hundred years or so (some refs). The garbled bit we’ve heard involves blood pressure, (possibly pre-eclampsia), and a short-term coma. To me it sounds like her body’s overstressed; whether that’s from being physically not mature enough to handle a pregnancy or a pre-existing systemic problem she would have at any age I don’t know.
But I was wrapping that up with lack of education, lack of pre-natal care, lack of everything that a pregnant woman ought to have, which she, being a teenaged girl in a fundie environment, doesn’t have.
David Marjanović
Will you be driving or flying from Atlanta to New York?
Citation needed. Which countries have compulsory-voting laws but don’t enforce them at all? I understand that Australia’s law doesn’t impose a very onerous penalty and that it’s easy to get out of it in practice, but consider a person in the position of Bob in my example above; I’m guessing that if someone were to flagrantly and openly flout the law as an act of deliberate resistance, and were to publicize the fact that they were doing so, they’d face sanctions of some kind. And if no such sanctions would be imposed, then it would probably undermine the compulsory-voting-law’s authority to the point that it would be widely ignored.
I have successfully seen Operation Corruption™ to the conclusion of Phase I, which consisted of hauling the nice boy to the local Mormon building for a couple hours this morning (I then went and drank coffee and picked coreopsis flowers for my friend to dye wool with), having a nice neutrally supportive discussion with him about religion after he brought up his unbelief, anger, and ambivalence – I listened, told him that he can keep the bits of the lifestyle he likes, like family night and preparedness, and ditch the whole Magic Sky Fairy/isolation/afterlife stuff. He can admire bits of the history without buying the mythology, the flat-out lies, the don’t-associate-with-anyone-outside-the-church stuff, and the incessant demands for money and time. I told him we’d support him however he proceeded (he won’t associate with us if he decides to drink the koolaid after all), and would do what we could to help him visit us again. Yes, I removed my Darwinfish from the van after he admitted that it would probably lead his mom to forbid visits – the decal is faded and I’ve been wanting to replace it with one with the DNA inside anyway.
Then I took the kids to the local yarn shop, taught my first spinning class, and taught NMB to knit. After driving him home, the Spawn and I managed to sit in the living room, with eight siblings and mom and dad, and not say a single even vaguely bad word for 10 minutes. I’m daunted by the sheer cultish oppression of the lifestyle – telling your kid that he’s going to hell for watching TV on Sunday? Are you nuts? The most useful thing was remembering what someone here said once – “the smiles behind which no kindness lies.” Unbelievably accurate and very creepy.
One amusing thing: one of the women in my spinning class saw me and Corbie spinning at the Rally to Restore Sanity last fall and came up to talk to us afterwards – that was how she’d found out about this particular yarn store.
Now I’m going to listen to some mindless audiobook. I’m exhausted.
Oblate,
Thanks for clarifying. I was not looking for a fight, I asked because you used a term specifically to apply to yourself and I have encountered people using it in differing fashions.
Carlie, that’s terrible. My sister and her husband are anti-choice and wouldn’t sign the school permission form for sex ed (“They want to teach kids that having sex with someone you just met at a bar is an option! I don’t want my kids to learn that’s an option!” and surprise surprise, my niece was pregnant at 17, and of course no one in that family valued her enough to suggest the possibility that her life and plans might be worth more than the embryo currently inside her uterus. I almost exploded with rage when I heard (which was only after her wedding — o hai, by the way, your bright and promising 17-year-old niece is married to some rectal haberdasher and going to be a mother).
My niece was much more fortunate than your spouse’s acquaintance in that she carried to term and gave birth safely but if something had gone wrong they would definitely all have been earnestly praying to jebus — staunchly, willfully ignorant that each and every one of them were responsible for it.
Mattir, what color does coreopsis dye? I’m guessing an earthy golden or tan but I know (having dyed eggs a lovely delicate blue with red camellia flowers) that mordants can change the color of dyestuffs in surprising ways
Mattir: Wow. Mormonism is even weirder than I’d realized. :-/
I finally got Jadehawk, Ing, Rorschach, Shala and SC on my blog’s blogroll…anyone else want a link?
*raises hand* Yes please!
Walton:
Done! :D
If I ever get off of my mental ass and start actually blogging again, yes. But I’ll let you know when, or if, I become an active blogger again.
I don’t deserve one: I haven’t written anything on either of my blogs in weeks. Gonna try to fix that starting this week, but I need to have a better record of sustained posting before I start promoting myself.
These countries do.
Let’s see the voter turnout rate for elections for the industrialized countries on that list:
– Belgium (91%)
– Greece (86%)
– Luxembourg (90%)
That’s higher than the average voter turnout for industrialized countries (which I think is about 60%).
In the previous thread you wrote:
By the same reasoning, shouldn’t you not object to compulsory voting laws that are not enforced or that make it easy to get out of voting? (Apologies for the triple negative.)
Well, AFAIK some angry person defying the compulsory voting laws hasn’t single-handely lowered their entire country’s voter turnout nor do I see any good reason to suppose that that is at all a realistic scenario.
Coreopsis flowers dye a wonderful bright yellow. Mordants can change it a bit, but it’s still a great yellow.
Mr. Mattir has offered the only appropriate answer to the “where were you when you heard about the WTC strikes?” effort to retraumatize random strangers.
Well, given how I spend most of my time, I was most likely wanking.
Posted with permission of the longsuffering Spousal Unit. Who, AFAIK, does not in fact spend a majority of his time each day wanking.
Ogvorbis & Bill, just let me know if/when you want a link, I’ll be happy to add them.
Yeah… and I do think compulsory jury service is wrong in principle, and would abolish it if I had the chance. I just can’t be bothered to devote a lot of effort to opposing it, when there are many institutions and practices in our society that are much, much worse (like the detention of asylum-seekers, the racist treatment of undocumented migrants, police and prison brutality, the death penalty, and the War on Drugs, for starters).
I shouldn’t really have devoted this much effort to arguing about compulsory voting, truth be told, since it’s a very trivial issue; it’s wrong in principle, but it doesn’t matter a huge amount in practical terms. It just pushes my reflexive anti-authoritarian buttons: on a deep-seated level, I really resent the idea of being told that I must spend my time participating in a civic ritual whether I like it or not, and that I will be punished (even in a trivial way) if I choose not to. This is particularly true with an act so symbolically-significant as voting; the deliberate choice to vote or not vote is a form of political self-expression, and I think it’s very dangerous when the right to express oneself politically as one pleases (within the bounds of non-violence) is taken away from the individual.
To me, compulsory voting is offensive in much the same way that it would be offensive, say, if a law were enacted making it compulsory for me to attend a half-hour religious service of my choosing once a year, on pain of being fined $20. It wouldn’t be a very onerous requirement, and the penalty for disobeying wouldn’t be very onerous either; but on principle, I’d deeply resent the assumption that the state is entitled to compel me to participate in a ritual which I might well not support or believe in. This is so even if I am afforded some freedom of expression within the constraints of the compulsory ritual (choosing which flavour of religious service to attend / choosing which candidate to vote for).
Do not read if you are prone to squickiness.
Still here?
Okay. That was disgusting. The first dissolvable stitch just came out. In two pieces. One was the not. The other was a 3cm lenght of suture. Bleah.
Sorry.
Well, partly my fault for pursuing it even after you said you were done. SIWOTI gets the best of me sometimes.
I think it’s possible to distinguish compulsory jury duty from compulsory voting. I would be extremely uncomfortable with a jury comprised of those who felt so strongly about law and order that they would volunteer their time to serve on a jury. Voluntary voting would seem to select for those who care strongly enough about a position to find out which candidates agree with them (although my congressional district, Minnesota’s 6th, would be a good argument for pulling a name out of a hat)
RHINEBECK 2011
If you are attending Rhinebeck, or MAY be attending Rhinebeck, please fill out this form to arrange hotel accommodations.
(And thanks to Llewelly, Muse & Reality Enforcer for helping me get the form right–clearly my brain is out to lunch.)
If you have any questions, please email me at oniongirlsays at google mail dot com–I just cannot keep up with the Thread at the moment (crazy good & crazy bad, will update when I can get caught up!)!
At Girl’s college orientation, they handed out condoms. And on each condom was a red octogon (stop sign shape in the US). And in white, the phrase “GOT CONSENT?” I think that’s pretty clever. Not sure how much it’ll help, but clever nonetheless.
Does anyone else watch True Blood. Please, please, please, someone say yes ‘cos I have got to gush over the season finale, but my bff isn’t picking up his damn phone.
oblate777, welcome in. :)
–
Question: is it possible that the availability of delivery by surgical intervention, as opposed to the previous-only-option vaginal delivery, is affecting selection against those mismatches between age at menarche, and ability to successfully deliver a child and survive? Surgical intervention is so (relatively) recent, to be having much affect. (Or possibly I’m misunderstanding the speed of selection, in wider terms.)
–
Walton:
Mean ta say, if in the Good Olde Fashioned Manner a girl who was too young to successfully bear a child was prematurely (not the word I want, but a better choice elludes me ATM) fertile and became pregnant, she (and likely the child as well) would “die trying”, and their genes for the mismatch would not be passed on.
–
Yeah… getting rid of compulsory jury duty would probably have to mean getting rid of juries altogether. But that wouldn’t be a particularly bad thing, in my book. I’m well aware, from experience, that Americans (and to a lesser extent Brits and the rest of the Anglosphere) have a deep-seated cultural attachment to the jury as a “safeguard of liberty”, but I’ve never really bought that idea (though it made sense in its original historical context). I don’t see any evidence to suggest that jury systems reduce the rate of miscarriages of justice; and jury trials are open to a certain degree of manipulation, particularly with the elaborate voir dire process used in the US. Not to mention that the jury’s deliberations are secret, so there is no way of being certain that juries arrive at their findings of fact through a rational process, or that they have understood the evidence and the judge’s directions properly. In England and Wales, juries have long since been abolished for most civil trials (except for defamation), and are generally now only used in serious criminal cases.
A better set-up might be the approach that’s used for some specialized courts and tribunals in the UK (employment tribunals, for instance): a legally-qualified judge as chair, and two or more lay members with relevant expertise who participate in making findings of fact (while the chair directs the panel as to the relevant law). I think there’s a case for this kind of set-up being superior; afaik, something similar is used in most continental European jurisdictions, where the Anglo-American jury system has never caught on.
ImaginesABeach:
It’s pretty good for special-interest groups, too, such as dominionists; it gives them far more elective power than their numerical count.
Because, you know, civic duty doesn’t exist and voting is pointless, just like the half-hour religious service of your choosing.
Also, not to be a pedant, but federal elections in the U.S. occur every other year. So, to be fair, if Walton were taking that into account, voting is only half as pointless as a half-hour religious service. I guess at least that’s better, relatively, than being half as bad as one of those two hour services.
You don’t see it, because you haven’t looked or because we haven’t fed it to you in this thread?
But of course, one can be certain the alternatives aren’t open to manipulation, will follow a rational process, and the evidence is understood. (BTW, the alternatives involve super-intelligent robots.)
@ Kitty
Some inspiration. Link: Claude Ledoux.
(NSFW – buildingporn)
@ Josh
Conga rat with the wild yeasts. Test the results on your neighbour just to be safe. ;)
@ David Marjanović
I see a pattern here. Actually, brilliance across several members of the same family is rarer than one might think. There is a discontinuity between a genius and hir family. A rare case of genius across several members of a family is perhaps best illustrated by the Bernoulli family. (Linky Pfft.)
@ Lynna
Sad to say, I notice this tendency in China far to much. I would be interested in the psychology of why so many Chinese are attracted to skydaddy ™. (Link to Beeb: Christians in China)
Voting is sometimes pointless, sometimes not; it depends (a) on the election and (b) on what you’re trying to achieve by voting. But the point is that it should be an individual choice. Deliberately not voting is an expression of opinion, too, just as refraining from going to church is an expression of opinion. Rejecting the whole process, and opting out of it, should be an option.
“So, to be fair, if Walton were taking that into account, voting is only half as pointless as a half-hour religious service. I guess at least that’s better, relatively, than being half as bad as one of those two hour services.”
Depends on where you’re voting. If you’re in a Republican area, you’re going to have a very short wait and plentiful machines. If you’re in a Democratic area, you’re going to have one machine, that probably doesn’t work, and a day-long wait.
I’m rather fed up with you talking down to me, mocking me, sneering at me, strawmanning and caricaturing everything I say, and acting as though I’m ignorant of subjects which, in fact, I probably know rather more about than you do. (Happen to remember which field my academic background is in?) If I wanted to, I could go into a more detailed disquisition of the merits and demerits of juries, and the evidence of miscarriages of justice in jurisdictions which use jury systems, with specific examples. (But if I did, I’d be chided for writing posts that are too long and too detailed, and for boring everyone.)
If you’ve got empirical evidence that the US, English and Australian judicial systems have a statistically-significant lower rate of miscarriages of justice than those of France, Germany or Finland, say, then feel free to show me. I think you’d be hard-pressed to find any actual evidence.
And who the fuck is “we”? The “real” Pharyngulites?
I TOLD YOU WHAT ONE POSSIBLE REALISTIC ALTERNATIVE WAS, IN THE SECOND PARAGRAPH OF THE POST YOU QUOTED, YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE MORON. LEARN TO FUCKING READ.
Theophontes:
If one is going by IQ, my family spawned many in the genius category, along with many odd personalities.
@Sili, re Whisky
Caol Isla!!!
But really, those are all such different styles that clearly the best answer is “all of them and have a tasting session”. Or any of them, depending on your preference.
The point of voting is to elect officials and determine other laws. The point of the half-hour religious service of your choosing?
Civic duty or no, whatever whimsically irrelevant things you might be trying to achieve by it, voting has a distinct purpose in a democratic society.
So (1) it should be an individual choice, therefore (2) it should be an individual choice.
Civil disobedience is always an option.
Although, now I realize that since you reject the very concept of civil duty, based on a rather odd argument having to do with the state being an arbitrary construct, for the sake of internal consistency you may not recognize the existence of civil disobedience either. Whatever phrase you might like to use in its place, you are free to use that. That is always an option.
Another benefit of compulsory voting is that it would encourage citizens to become more politically knowledgeable and active. I’m not saying it would turn an apathetic non-voter into a hardcore activists, but it might get some to actually look into what is actually going on in politics. One of the reasons politicians can get away with so much is voter ignorance/apathy.
Come to think of it, even though I am sick of the subject, I think what the US really needs is an equivalent of the Australian Electoral Commission. It’s an independent body that runs elections; no party interference allowed.
I’m fed up with your ridiculous arguments. If you’d prefer to ignore my comments, like the ones yesterday, feel free.
You wouldn’t be chided for that by me.
I had taken it that it was implied those defects aren’t present or aren’t as problematic in your alternatives. Why else would they be relevant, unless you had given evidence to suggest they are worse in legal systems which use juries.
With that I entirely agree. Most democratic countries have an independent electoral body of this kind. I find it bizarre that, in many US states, the administration of elections is often the domain of partisan elected officials (state Secretaries of State, county clerks, boards of elections, and so on). There’s no way someone who was him- or herself elected on a political party ticket can be expected to be unbiased in the administration of an election.
That’s one fine high horse you’ve got there Walton. Borrow him from the Royal Mews?
Yeah, that’s a good idea. Having people who are getting elected decide how elections are run in insane conflict of interest.
Mattir – Naughty M is pretty sure he was wanking too, so your Mr. wasn’t the only devotee. (I wasn’t his Missus, so can’t confirm that)
I was off to work, and missed the whole live thing. No TV or web at the job I had then.
Arghhh,
in insane conflict of interest -> is an insane conflict of interest.
Go fuck yourself. If you’re going to tell me that I’m incompetent and ignorant IN MY OWN FUCKING ACADEMIC FIELD WHICH I HAVE DEVOTED THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS OF MY LIFE TO STUDYING, then you can hardly be surprised when I’m personally upset, offended and angry.
I’ve been working far harder on this debate than it actually merits. But apparently I’m too stupid, ignorant and incapable of making a coherent argument to be worth your time and effort. Fine. Maybe I should just give up on having a career, quit school, go back home and waste the rest of my life doing nothing. After all, I’m evidently too much of a moron to be taken seriously as a legal scholar. Apparently I should just shut up, go away and stop wasting anyone’s time with my stupid pathetic incoherent worthless thoughts.
Yes, I am angry and irrational and emotional right now. I make no apology for that.
Shit, my afternoon – evening turned to crap. My best friend (fight forgotten?!) called to say she has broken her leg. Holy fuck!
Our fight was over my mystery medical treatment on the 8th – where I learned my happy benign became “benign now”. She and hubby are demanding that I demand a hysterectomy, NOW! WTF? No.
That just isn’t an indicated treatment, science has moved on. I told them I think they are sexist assholes that think female castration is ‘fine’, and the treatment for all female ills…. you see where this is heading.
Now I feel like shit. :(
I called your arguments ridiculous (also didn’t say “incoherent”), but I admit I could be wrong. Anyway, you may be competent and knowledgeable in your field (I agree that you are), but that doesn’t make your arguments valid. Sorry you’re taking this so personally.
Patricia, I wouldn’t worry too much about a hysterectomy if it does eventually seem indicated. A friend had one in her 30s, some time after her second baby, and she loved the outcome. No more pregnancy worries, no more periods, and you definitely can’t have endometriosis without an endometrium! You only get the “castration” effects if they haul out the ovaries, too.
I just love non-apologies.
I’m taking it personally because it’s late, I’m tired, I haven’t been eating or sleeping well, I’ve found it very stressful to move thousands of miles away to a home in a new country where I’ve never lived before, and I am a sensitive person in any case and find it very hard to deal with personal attacks and condescension. Admittedly, you weren’t to know most of these things (though you were certainly aware of the last of them), but when you treat someone obnoxiously and condescendingly, you have to be aware of the possibility that they will react badly. Human beings are not always calm or rational, and it is not reasonable to expect everyone to behave calmly and rationally at all times.
Well, in a bench trial, the judge gives reasons for his or her findings; juries, by contrast, deliberate in secret, meaning that there is no transparency or accountability regarding how they arrive at their decisions. Not to mention the whole process of jury selection, and the often-abused voir dire process that exists in the United States – a problem which does not arise at all with bench trials. Judges may also be better-equipped than jurors to evaluate complex statistical and forensic evidence (though this certainly isn’t guaranteed; hence why I think it might be a good idea in some types of case to have a panel made up of lay experts chaired by a judge, as is the practice with employment tribunals in England and so on).
It’s not my contention, though, that juries are a terrible system, or that jury trials produce miscarriages of justice with a significantly greater frequency than bench trials. Rather, I’m simply questioning the widely-held Anglo-American belief that juries are a safeguard of liberty, and that terrible things would happen to the judicial process if we were to abolish them. I don’t see any basis for the claim that jury trials are significantly better than bench trials, or that jurisdictions with jury trials produce significantly fewer miscarriages of justice. Given this, and since I dislike compulsory jury service on principle, I don’t see any strong justification for keeping it. However, it’s not an issue about which I feel desperately strongly – it’s a very minor issue – and it’s unlikely to change in the foreseeable future, at least in America where traditional commitment to the jury system is very strong.
Alethea H. Claw – Arrgh! I am freaking out about this because it seems to be OK to castrate women.
In my own case I haven’t had to worry about pregnancy since 1976 (husband got a vasectomy at age 22 – yeah, imagine that in 1976!) Haven’t had a period since 2007, so none of that applies to me. I just am pissed as hell that MAJOR abdominal surgery in women is fobbed off as nothing.
Male castration is easy as pie, and done every day in animals, but when it comes to humans – oh hell no!
Science has come up with better treatments, yep, I’m gonna feel crappy, but I choose NOT to get castrated.
Still feel guilty about my friend. :(
Walton you’re in America now, we have a remedy for your blat ass problem.
It’s called a sugar tit. I can send you one ASAP.
… is the concept of consent really that hard for people to grasp?
Moron’s back.
That was out of line, Patricia.
Patricia, I don’t say it’s nothing. Just that if it *does* come to a point where you really need it, then it’s not so bad. I think I just sailed right past the point where you were very much more annoyed with your friends’ attitude, than actually worried about possible surgery. Sorry.
And good on that bloke of yours. And no, you don’t magically make people break their legs by arguing with them.
Look, I’m sorry for over-reacting so badly. I was originally trying very hard to articulate why I dislike and resent, on a deep-seated level, the idea of compulsory voting. But it’s a trivial issue (and one which is never likely to be introduced in any country where I’m likely to live), so I can’t be bothered to spend any more time on it.
I got angry with consciousness razor about the jury trial issue because s/he was misunderstanding and strawmanning me, and being condescending in the process. (I was not claiming that the jury system is terrible; I was simply pointing out that there is no evidence to suggest that bench trials produce a higher rate of miscarriages of justice than jury trials, that jury trials have certain disadvantages which bench trials don’t, and that the traditional Anglo-American view of the jury system as a “safeguard of liberty” doesn’t really stack up.) Since it falls directly within my area of academic expertise, and since I do know what I’m talking about in that field, I couldn’t help being offended by this. However, that isn’t a good reason for why I reacted so strongly, and for that I apologize.
And Patricia? FWIW, I’m genuinely sorry to hear about your medical problems, and your argument with your best friend; and I wish you well. I didn’t mean to detract from that.
Walton, I’m sorry for poking so tartly at you last night. I do think more brevity would be good, but a little less acid from me would have been too. I can understand why you’re frustrated.
In the argument about the jury system, your analysis is compelling. It is time for a re-examination of the American system, but it isn’t likely to happen as we know.
Through ten years of working in baby retail, I have never heard that reference. Those poor teeth.
It wasn’t meant as an apology. Am I supposed to be glad you’re taking this personally? I don’t think that would benefit me at all, nor this broken discussion we were attempting to have.
Despite disagreeing with you about, well, lots of things, I’m not interested in being your enemy. It seems like you’ve gotten the wrong impression of me somehow; and that’s understandable, since I don’t talk about my personal life. That won’t change, but for what it’s worth, I don’t hate you, Walton. If that surprises you, then try to keep it in mind when reading my comments.
If I strawmanned you, it was unintentional. I do also make (not very funny) jokes now and then, but I don’t consider that a fallacy.
There’s also the issue of “personal attacks,” which I don’t think I’ve engaged in; but I don’t know what gave you the impression I was being condescending. Given what you’ve said to me, this looks like projection. I would admit to being sarcastic and doubtful, among other things.
And please don’t apologize. I hope things get better as you get settled in and that you take care of yourself.
My Jamestown acquaintances treated me very, very shittily tonight and made me feel horrible about myself because I failed to understand a social rule without explanation. (Which they wouldn’t give me because apparently it was too obvious and I was an idiot for not understanding it.) Moreover, the one friend I could pretty well count on not to be a jackass about this subject never showed up, so I didn’t even get to say goodbye to him. Worst yet, I actually care a whole hell of a lot about these people, and it’s coming into very painful focus right now because two of them are going through some problems that make them constantly unhappy and I feel horrible about that even while I’m angry at them and hurt by their actions.
I’d be in bed, since I have to leave early tomorrow morning, but last time I tried to go to bed I just cried. I’m terrified already to go to LA, and being called names (including “savant” which I’d take as a compliment to my intellect if it weren’t clearly being slung as an insult), taunted, and asked exasperatedly how I even managed to have friends in the first place, by people I considered my friends (and sometimes still do), really didn’t help my confidence any. They’re right, in a way. I really don’t know how to make friends in meatspace, and that’s going to be a problem for me in LA. Fuck.
Cleaning out my spam folder just now and found the weirdest title:
Seriously, WTF???
@ Brother Ogvorbis #250
Sounds like the college has the right attitude! DaughterSpawn is leaving home for uni in less than two weeks now (will miss her company sorely) and has assured me that she never forgets about Proper Preparation … that’s probably one of the few things I won’t parentally worry about (just leaving an infinite number of other things, of course).
college in USAnian = university in Britspeak?
Yes.
Fuck, sorry to hear that CC. People can be real jerks sometimes, even those you think you know and trust. it’s especially frustrating when you’re expected to know all the peculiarities of social interaction, as if by instinct. You shouldn’t get down on yourself though – even if they’re “right” that you have a hard time making friends (and I sure am one of those people too, probably like a lot of the horde here), that kind of shit behavior makes we wonder if they have friends that last once they’ve revealed their true colors.
More or less. You would say “going to college” rather than “going to university”. Colloquially the words are often used interchangeably to refer to the schools themselves, though typically colleges don’t have graduate programs and universities do. Universities may also have academic subdivisions called “colleges”, each headed by a dean.
Got a new Twitter. Nothing clever on it yet. Just ClassicalCipher. But if y’all follow me, I can follow you, and read all your awesome random musings, and that’s really what I’m after!
problems in early pregnancies
That’s part of the problem, yes. There are several factors coming into play here:
-Earlier menarche
This study notices a 0.3 years earlier onset in the USA since the 1970’s. ALthough the authors call this non-significant, I’m wondering how this would compare to the 1800s. Since one of the reasons mentioned in other studies is childhood-obesity, I think we can expect to see even earlier dates.
-Longer growth
I’m guessing here. When did people finish growing? we know that the higher the standard of nutrition and healthcare, the larger people are on average.
-Fetuses have become significantly larger and heavier i our times of plentiness, too
A while ago Greg Laden had a post about that very topic: click
Maternitty death being the leading cause of death for women age 15-19 in Africa
Sili All of them!
Hmmm, I love Talisker, but I’m biased
Carlie
That’s bad.
One of my cousins got his girlfriend pregnant when she was 16* and she had to spend several weeks in hospital due to early labour. And this was with having all the things a pregnant girl should have.
Fortunately things turned out fine and she finished school without even repeating a year even though she had missed more than half of it and a baby to care for.
Caine
Fell free if you want to, but, well, it’s more like my personal ramblings ;)
Brother Ogvorbis
I think it’s brilliant. It will at least raise a bit of awareness on the topic in an easy, non-threatening, low treshold way plus free condoms.
cicely
A lot of the problems that we are experiencing are pretty recent, too. Other complications that are now solved by surgical intervention were solved without previously. If the baby is butt down instead of head, normal delivery is still possible but more risky, especially for the baby, so most women will have a C-section.
It think we’re “messing” with natural selection on other levels like diabetes or tychoid conditions. I know a lot of women** who would, 100 years ago just have suffered miscarriage after miscarriage after miscarriage. Now they get tested, diagnosed, the necessary medication and have healthy kids who might have inherited the tychoid condition.
Patricia
I’m sorry to hear about your fight and your friend’s leg. But surely it wasn’t broken because of your ang…..er, what did you do exactly? ;)
CC
I’m sorry to hear. I think those people don’t deserve you as a friend. I can understand your anxiety, but I hope you’ll find lots and lots of cool people in LA who will treat you the way you clearly deserve.
**Due to my personal history, I know a lot of women whose pregnancies have gone bad.
*Yes, this happens in pro sex-ed, pro-choice, pro-contraception, sex-positive families, too. IMO every packet of antibiotics should contain some condoms, too.
Not sure if this has come up before, didn’t have time to read the entire thread, but this just pissed me off no end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J416tucEFMk
Because obviously the government produces nothing of value, and poor people should just be homeless so they can, you know, stay poor. blind fucking idiots.
I left a comment there that people who don’t like governments are free to move to Somalia where there is none, neither are there roads, schools or anything.
Yeah, the government never did anything, because infrastructure apparently does grow on trees.
Well, reminds me of the letter we got last week which tells us that we have to pay a special tax on Mr.’s little flat in the town he works in. Yep, 240€ a year because that’s not his primary residence, because the city is fucking bancrupt. The city is home to one of the biggest chemical companies in the world, one that makes billions and billions of profit, one that relies heavily on the infrastructure the city provides. But it would be totally unfair to ask them to pay their share…
Interesting book I’m reading: Black Man (AKA Thirteen)
Recommended.
What is the tychoid condition? There’s no hits for it on Google.
That’s because I’m stupid, at least before the morning coffee ;)
Sorry, it was meant to be thyroid
IT recruitment agency Xmas bash – hypnotist … many bosses on stage … asked to recreate what they were doing at a certain time … oh dear!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow, people are being even nastier to Walton than I used to be!
[meta]
RTL, I wouldn’t worry about Walton.
(He’s a superior specimen; were I given to envy, I would envy him)
I don’t think I’ve ever seen Walton yell in here, though.
====
Walton, I look forward to your book, detailing your American adventures. If possible, in the style of Gulliver’s Travels. Working title: My Adventures Overseas, with a sufficiently witty subtitle which I am currently unable to make up for you.
Of course, you need to finish your current work in progress first, From Libertarian to Liberal, or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The State.
“I have a question for the people here that are older than I am: Were so many Americans this nationalistic before 9/11? I’m too young to remember much about how the country was before then and I’m constantly noticing how mindlessly nationalistic people are now a days”
There was a lot of that crap going around during the Cold War, but it got worse under Reagan, after a few years, post-Watergate, of relative sanity (those years in the Seventies coincide with some classic sketches from Satuday Night Live, before the Moral Majority/”big tent” Rethuglicans arrived and censored everything).
We in Europe got progress. The ‘Mericans got a big anti-modernism backlash, courtesy of the “southern strategy” and the concentration of media onto a few big owners. That the Democrats were cowards and opportunists then as now helped make things worse.
*pops in briefly to leave a link to an outrageious story*
http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-campbell-rachel-0907-20110907,0,4902441.column
A young woman was forced to withdraw from The Master’s School in West Simsbury, CT because she came out as a lesbian.
Note: The school is a private K-12 Christan school. The source I cited here is an opinion column, not a news report. The author frequently writes about religion, especially its harm to women, children, and LGBT people.
*waves wearily to everyone and pops back out to go back to chaotioc life*
:-( I’m sorry to hear that. That’s pretty nasty. FWIW, I have a lot of trouble with meatspace social rules and customs too. Humans are difficult to cope with.
=====
The condescension was here:
And the strawman was here:
However, you’re entirely correct that I shouldn’t have taken it so personally.
======
That’s ok. Not your fault.
=====
And now I’m taking a break from this place for a while.
Has this been mentioned yet? Rhinos to be fed with stuff that makes their horns 1) poisonous to humans, and 2) light up in neon pink under airport scanners even when already ground to powder. I find that all kinds of awesome.
Eh? He’s right. The way American elections are disorganized is a global shame for a pretty long list of reasons.
Now to catch up…
No question. Part of it is covering the university’s legal ass, but part of it is also trying to make the student body, especially those away from home and living sort of on their own for the first time, safer and more aware.
Girl and Boy both started school in late August. Makes for a longer soltice holiday. I have few worries about Girl. She is quite assertive and she and FutureSonInLaw have been together for about two years now. I don’t see her doing a Freshman crash.
Actually, both kids are going to universities. Girl is in the College of Liberal Arts at her university, Boy is in the same at his.
Oddly, both colleges I attended no longer exist. Hagerstown Junior College is now Hagerstown Community College, and Franklin Pierce College is now Franklin Pierce University. Makes me feel old.
I just had a vision of rhinos wandering the plains of Africa with horns looking like they are made of melted Barbie Dolls. I know that’s not what the story states, that’s just where my bizarre liberal arts brain took it.
==========
Good Morning, all! Happy Saturday Morning!
For today, bank, library, an early 83d birthday dinner for a wonderful neighbor, and then the Friday night high school football game (held over from Wednesday (which is Friday to an oppressive Calendarist) to Saturday (which is Monday to an oppressive Calendarist).
Finished a Hammer’s Slammers story last night (by Drake). The reason mercenaries were involved was because the planet was settled by Catholics, but some Moslems settled on the less-productive continent. Then the Catholics decided to have a civil war over whether Easter should be celebrated according to Earth calendar or the local planet’s calendar. And I can see that happening. In spades.
Catho-wingnut mommy can’t leave her house. Why? Because teh gheys are displaying affection in public! And “illegal aliens” are running people over!!
Some of her regular commenters are just as whacked. One of them says, “Catholics could start forming their own ghettos. In the long run that might just make it easier when the time comes to round us up for the reeducation camps.”
This got Reddited. She’s getting a lot of flak in her comments. (Unfortunately she’s also gotten death threats and misogynist crap, which aside from being wrong per se also feed into her considerable martyr complex.)
Just got mail from All Out about this petition asking PayPal to shut down accounts of hate groups like Abiding Truth Ministries.
Link to the petition
So yeah, go sign that.
@ Quodlibet
I hope they get their comeuppance: Linky.
@ David M.
Wow, thanks for sharing that. If it is not coincidental, that is a poetically appropriate solution to the problem. Now we just need a similar solution for shark fins and abalone.
The park rangers in South Africa are very well armed and deployed to protect rhinos (inter alia) there. As far back as I can remember there have always been violent confrontations between rangers and poachers. (Link: Poachers killed in Kruger)
When I used to dive there, we often came across whole areas of the seafloor covered in shucked abalone shells. The poachers dive with aqualungs and denude the sea to the extent that populations are no longer viable and stand on the edge of extinction.
No. I am 39 and I cannot recall the US ever being this nationalistic. But, I grew up in the Northeastern US and now I live in the Southern US and I think that the nationalism is more extreme down here.
I cited an article on the 9/11 thread that was pretty interesting. It was a social psych take on the increase in nationalism (amongst other things) that has occurred since 9/11 and looking at it through the lens of terror management theory and value protection theory: The expulsion from Disneyland: The social psychological impact of 9/11.
Morgan, G. Scott; Wisneski, Daniel C.; Skitka, Linda J.
American Psychologist, Vol 66(6), Sep 2011, 447-454.
Rgh. Internet proxy is down so I have to use IE.
@ Kitty
Eeeew! I hope that heals quickly.
opposablethumbs
Well, I can only afford one of them (and I prolly should check if it’s actually a real discount).
Last week they even had a limited lot of bottles, but I forgot to take note of the names – I assumed they’d be sold out by the time I got to the shop. In the end I didn’t even get there at all.
Thank you! I’ve had to take a break from it due to life stuff (which should seem obvious what it was ^-^) but after getting a lot of complements out of no where on it I was thinking of updating again semi-regularly.
Also gotten back into writing fiction…just some fanfic stuff to get the juices flowing again but it makes me feel productive and glowy warmness again.
Brother Ogvorbis, are they twins that they’re starting in the same academic year? (Or did I misunderstand, and it’s her first year but not his?). First time out for us, as daughterspawn is the elder of the two by 3 yrs.
Hope the first-year experience is proving exciting and fun (and educational, natch ;-) )
@Sili #315
So which delight will you pick, do you think? (assuming they’ve still got them all?)
Ignorance/apathy/cynicism.
I know a good many young people who aren’t ignorant or apathetic, but feel that voting is a bit of a waste of time, on the perception that all politicians are alike, and alike bad; that the only real difference voting might make is which corporate interests will be pandered to/skim off all the cream.
–
Oh, if only.
–
*hug* for Classical Cipher. Sorry to hear that your meatspace friends are sucking, right now.
–
Here’s a hopeful sign from the Morridor, less of a Moment of Mormon Madness, and more a moment of mindfulness. Teenagers and young adults are leaving the polygamist, fundamentalist mormon sect, FLDS, in droves.
That’s 150 out of about 10,000. I do wish the state of Utah would also get into the providing-help mode. Instead, they leave it all to volunteer aid organizations Many of those organizations don’t have the resources they need to keep undereducated teens out of trouble, nor to defend women from men who show up to force them back into the cult.
Classical Cipher, I’m so sorry your trip home has had such thorns in it. Don’t let these friends of yours live rent free in your head. You were doing fine in LA, you had many successful times and outings, remember that!
It’s quite possible your Jamestown friends are indulging in some petty spite due to be jealous a/o frustrated that you’ve ventured out in life and are taking some serious personal risks to pursue your goals. Give things time to cool down, then you can start talking again once there’s some distance, both literally and figuratively.
The one thing you shouldn’t do is blame yourself or use this situation to beat yourself over the head with – stop that right now. It isn’t always you, ya know. Hugs, Sweet Stuff.
Mattir @231:
That would be me, Mattir. I’ve seen the mormon smile too often. I’m inordinately pleased to see my description slowly making it’s way to internet meme.
To be fair, many mormons are so pressured to give of their time and money that they learn the smile-behind-which-no-kindness-lies as a defense mechanism. They use it on their fellow church members as well as on infidels like you and the spawn.
The smile reaches its apex of creepiness when deployed for the purpose of demonstrating to infidels how happy mormons are, and/or for proselytizing purposes.
A follow-up to my post @320. At least one FLDS supporter has internet access and is posting below the Salt Lake Tribune article about young people leaving the cult. “Celia” writes,
Please take two minutes of your time to send an email to the Georgia state parole board opposing the execution of Troy Davis. (There are serious doubts about whether he is guilty: seven of the nine witnesses have changed their stories, and there is no physical evidence linking him to the crime.) You can send an email using the form here provided by Amnesty International.
He is scheduled to be executed on September 21, but the state parole board has scheduled a hearing for September 19, and they have power to stop the execution.
This is REALLY important. It doesn’t take much of your time, and there’s a possibility that you might be able to help save a human being’s life. Please send an email.
@ Walton #324
Sent.
DC/BALTIMORE PHARYNGULA FANS:
Renaissance Festival this Saturday!
The Faire address is: 1821 Crownsville Road, Annapolis, MD 21401.
If you plan to carpool, please let me know and indicate where you are coming from.
Details:
We’re meeting at noon at the main gates.
Tickets are $19 for adults; $8 for children 7-15; free for children under 7
Parking is hectic, and the road to the faire will be a wait to get in.
Most vendors accept credit cards, some take only cash.
A Giant card or CVS card will get you a discount on tickets–some grocery stores also have coupons.
Costume rentals are available for those interested. :)
For more information
Email me with questions at oniongirlsays at google mail dot com.
Here’s a poll that definitely needs some attention:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2011/09/should-doctors-accept-alternative-medicine.html
And the accompanying article, comments full of woo:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2011/09/09/alternative-medicine-guidelines.html
You know, even when I was a practising Pagan, I never bought into all the anti science-based medical crap.
Boy is starting his junior year; he has an associates degree from our local community college and is now going to Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania. Girl just gradjumatated from high school and is in her freshman year at Wilkes University. No, not twins. Hree years apart.
Fuck you very much, Midnight Rambler, for making me think of ass-rimming Jay Leno.
And now the rest of you can bloody well have it.
test FT
I mean, imagine the noises he would make…
opposablethumbs
So far I count three votes (or 2 1/4) for the Caol Ila.
But I’ll prolly end up with the prettiest bottle …
Classical Cipher:
How incredibly obnoxious of your friends! Who died and made them the sole arbiters of social behavior?! That sends me from zero to Over-Protective Mommy in about half a heartbeat.
I’m just a semi-lurker, but you always strike me as someone who would be fun to know IRL. Quirky is Good!
And, you know… hugs if you’ll accept them from a socially inept dragon. :)
Wife just recieved her birthday present from her parents down in Florida. They found fifty (count ’em, 50!) spools of crochet thread, in about 20 colours, many of them full spools. Now, no matter what I get Wife for her birthday, it’ll still be upstaged.
I plan to cook tamales for her for her birthday.
Classical Cipher,
I am so sorry to hear that Jamestown is treating you so poorly. A trip to a former living location can be very exciting and full of reminiscence, but it can also remind you why you have left. It’s a shame that your people there are showing so much of the latter and not enough of the former. Go to LA, meet new people, you have much to offer and your old friends don’t sound like they deserve much of your time or attention.
Classical Cipher:
If they’re treating you like this, you have to consider whether they’re really “friends” or not. If they are, they might be going throug jealousy as suggested – or other problems in their lives may just be coming out on you. Either isn’t really good “friend” behavior, but might be conditionally excused.
As far as L.A. goes – you’ve got DDMFM coming out, and a whole bunch of people who sound like they’ll have much more in common with you (or at least won’t be making fun of you for being brilliant) at the school.
There are also some of Horde out here, if you need a RL release valve. At the very least, I could probably kidnap Gyeong Hwa Pak and drag him out there.
Anyway, noli nothis permittere te terere.
@CC:
You should’ve gone to Jaynestown
@my 337:
Gack! I didn’t mean to come across as insensitive there! I submitted the comment before finishing!!
—
In seriousness *hugs* Sucks that you got treated poorly. Pharyngula is here to rant at if you need it :)
Regarding the poll mentioned at #327, the university is taking input from the public, and from “organizations” on how they should handle allopaths.
Good freakin’ flying spaghetti monster.
The “organizations” will include naturopaths, allopaths, and other assorted purveyors of woo. “The public” is not comprised of trained medical professionals. How can they get a reasonable answer by starting from ignorance, and then nurturing it?
Sili, you can’t really go wrong after all with choices like these – it’s just a question of right or even more right! (that came out as “tight”, but sadly my fingers had corrected it before I realised it was Tpyos’ influence).
.
Brother Ogvorbis, being cooked a favourite dish (I presume it is) never goes amiss. Hope you have time to find something to rival the magnificence of 50 spools, though!
.
Classical Cipher, I know I’m late but I sort of felt I’m really not around here enough to jump in on something so personal. But then I thought, well I hope perhaps you don’t mind a comment from a stranger – I read what you said about your friends and you must have felt gutted. I’m very sorry; dog knows it’s bad enough to get that kind of thing from acquaintances, but to get it from people you considered friends is really horrible. Hope you’re OK.
Classical Cypher: Your Jamestown acquaintances were assholes in this instance. Boo.
@339 Lynna
Just a couple of clarifications. The College is not a university, but the regulatory body that governs the medical profession within the province of Ontario. “Allopaths” is the derogatory name given by “naturopaths” or “homeopaths” to practitioners of science-based medicine. As for the rest of your post, carry on–it’s a pretty fair condemnation of the process.
340+ on new TET already? I’m never going to catch up :/
Minnie The Finn, previous #561:
…
D:
but …
WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!
*bursts into tears and runs away*
Wow, where is everybody? I expected to have to read up 200 posts or something like that (I’m not complaining)
Brother Ogvorbis
On my personal list, that would beat any thread out there, even metallic embroidery thread.
Beatrice @#310: signed and shared on FB.
Srsly, they freeze the Wikileaks account even before the USA government makes any “rawr” noises at them, but they leave around organizations that incite to murder? Fuck those fuckers. Buying shit on eBay is beginning to be seriously not worth supporting PayPal.
@ Ibis3, féministe avec un titre française de fantaisie:
Voted. Let’s hope we can swing that poll in the correct direction.
——————————————————–
So with a little bit of luck, the dealership where I bought my new car 9 months ago will willingly activate Lemon Law on it.
It’s been in the shop for something at least once a month since March. It’s more fucking unreliable than the 12 year old car I traded it in for, for fucks sake.
Shitty thing is, is that something different has gone wrong each time, which isn’t covered under my states stupidly difficult to use Lemon Law.
Which means the best I can truly hope for is that the dealership will want my business again in the future badly enough to get me into a different car anyway….
Which I guess means that my hopes aren’t really all that high.
Been playing the pre-release of Minecraft 1.8 beta. Been a month or more since I’d played the game. Holy crap! I forgot how addicting Minecraft is! Loving the new features, though. But saddened that while NPC villages are in, NPC’s themselves have been pushed back to 1.9. I found one of those villages, and it was like wandering through a ghost town. So I did what one does when they wander through a ghost town – I took their stuff.
ClassicalCipher – They suck. And, in fact, they are the ones violating all social norms by treating you that way. Blech. I know it hurts, but you are better off without “friends” like those.
Song for Classical Cipher. Feel free to jump around and scream along, while thinking of those so-called friends.
Latest Attempt to Establish a Theocracy:
Original story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/us/31funerals.html?pagewanted=1&ref=opinion
Editorial:
Amazing resemblance to “if Jim Wallis can’t say a prayer on 9/11 God won’t be there” and “if Tony Perkins isn’t invited to officiate at the Episcopal Cathedral, Christianity isn’t represented.”
I’ve just managed to catch up to the thread and sadly I can’t stay around as much as I’d like (stupid busy Monday). Hugs to CC and Patricia.
I thought I’d share something I read today about young adult authors experiences with being asked to rewrite or remove characters who were gay (among other things) in order to make better pitches to publishers. Wonderfully, they refused to do so, instead speaking out about the importance for minorities to see themselves represented in what they read.
To day is muffin day (for me at least). Pineapple orange muffins just went into the oven. I’m going to start chocolate muffins soon and I might make pumpkin muffins later tonight. Muffins!
Rey Fox | 12 September 2011 at 12:56 pm :
I think that counts as the second time something related to Jay Leno has been funny in the last 15 years. And the first time was about a month ago.
Not necessarily. I have heard it used to distinguish between two flavors of science-based medicine (in the USA), i.e. osteopathy (for which the terminal degree is DO) and…the MD kind, called (in this context) allopathy for lack of an alternative. Such usage is not perjorative.
However, the term was coined by a homeopath to mean the opposite of homeopathy, and certainly is used perjoratively by the wooish.
Classical Cipher – I am sorry about what you went through with your “friends”. That is not OK. It makes me wonder if they are trying to make your departure easier on themselves by pushing you away. You will be fine in LA. You will meet more mature friends.
Walton (@260):
ineffective ≠ pointless… something can be the former in specific instances (even in most instances) without being the latter in principle. Voting is only pointless in principle if you believe democracy is pointless; that we often don’t get what we vote for, or don’t have the choices we would prefer, doesn’t make it otherwise.
On an entirely unrelated note: When I first heard you were coming to the U.S., I invited you to attend the Harvard-Yale football game with us. Don’t feel any obligation, of course, but if you’re interested (or would like to visit us in CT for some other occasion), contact me at [formal firstname]DOT[lastname]AT[comcast]DOT[net].
CC, your friends need to have empathy modules installed. And privilege check modules.
Also, there are pharynguloids who live in the LA metro area. Maybe you should ask around and start your LA friendships there, if they are close enough.
Previously, on As The TET Threads…
Patricia:
So jealous right now. I actually want one (or more) of them for my camper. Or a cheap facsimile thereof. I have a gradually developing mental image of something constructed out of a front-loading washer or dryer door, bolts and some faux brass paint.
–[+]–
Alethea H. Claw:
Quite Finely True. It’s remarkable how well this bad, awful, terrible no-good policy idea works in practice.
With that, I must declare myself not remotely caught up, and bedtime. Hugs and/or spankings to all as required :)
Urk! I wrote my reply (@356) to Walton (@260) before realizing that the conversation I was inserting myself into had gone ever so slightly nonlinear immediately following #260. Sorry; didn’t mean to be adding
gasolinepetrol to the fire!***
DrDMFM:
I agree that this is awesome… as long as it doesn’t make rhino horn life-threateningly poisonous to humans. I have no sympathy whatsoever for the poachers, but as for the end users… well, last I heard, no civilized nation prescribes the death penalty, without trial or appeal, for being the ignorant thrall of cultural superstition. A painful night of projectile vomiting might be a just reward for believing your father when he told you rhino horn would make your pecker hard; sudden death, not so much. IMHO, of course.
***
Sili:
I have no advice regarding single-malt (Scotch) whisky; I’ve never tasted one I didn’t like. However, I’ve recently picked up a corn whiskey from a nearby microdistillery and <PythonesqueFrenchAccent>it’s verrry niiice!</PythonesqueFrenchAccent> It’s a different taste sensation than Scotch — lighter and brighter, and with after notes of grass and sweet corn — but very smooth sipping. I’m’a try to come up with some cocktails that use it.
Late to the party again, (starting the next one, mebbe?)
I’m totally on board with the compulsory voting thing, Aus. style. It may seem counter-intuitive, but I think it serves democracy well. I don’t see as as being, and it’s certainly not enforced as, an onerous curtailing of individual rights – no more than being expected to drive on the correct side of the road would be.
Windy, wet, cold. Plum crumble tonight.
IT, dogammit!
Oh, delicious whiskey/whisky. (We’ve pared down but at one point this year there were 12 types of whiskey in our liquor cabinet if you counted things like bourbons, etc. I promise we’re not alcoholics.) My absolute favorite whiskey is a locally bottled rye, High West Rendezvous (the distillery hasn’t been open long enough to have made the older vintages on site, but they are bottled here.)
I find that although I like scotch, I haven’t found one favorite yet, mostly because it’s a rather expensive sort of liquor to sample. I’m finding a preference for Speysides (spouse really likes Islays). The nicest (and not unexpectedly, the most expensive one I’ve tried) I’ve had was brought by a friend of mine earlier this year: Lagavulin Single Malt, 16 year. It’s lovely.
We’re somewhat constrained in options because you can only get what the state decides to order here. Which basically means on the rare trip out of state we wait to stock up on nice things that are sometimes less expensive*, but always come with tiny, tiny tax (comparatively).
*Wine and sort of “luxury” liquors like scotches are cheaper out of state, but tequila is comparable as are other things.
Walton@324,
Email sent.
Flying, why?
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Watched Friday’s arte news. A protesters in Syria carried a sign saying, in English,
“BASHAR
GAME OVER”
Apparently the protesters now intend to allow foreign help. NATO air strikes like in Libya in 5… 4… 3…
The UN estimates the body count so far at 2600 or more.
Meanwhile, China (as the last country in the UN Security Council) has recognized the transitional council of Libya, and Gaddafi has called his remaining supporters to keep fighting… on Syrian TV.
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Caught up with Episode 250!
WTF. Did I forget to put the gamma in there, or did the software somehow remove it? Test: γ
:-) :-) :-)
And? Was it? :-)
I’m pretty sure I’m always specifically myself in my dreams. Is that me being cis speaking, or am I just that self-centered? :^)
Couldn’t put it better myself.
:-)
Oh for crying out loud.
…I’m pretty sure it’s not that bad over here.
*epic facepalm*
~:-|
So did I.
That shouldn’t change much. :-)
Ha! La !§%!!§=%^§% bamba!
ARGH! The Amazing Technicolor Apple Spiral of Death! Will it crash, or will it not crash… !!
Comment from there:
“I’m on a 60 day ManPMS cycle. On that 60th day, I will literally kill any object, animate or otherwise, that picks a fight (e.g. does nothing) with me.
I’m running out of places to bury the Cub Scouts that have tried to sell me popcorn.”
:-D
*pretends being able to raise one eyebrow*
Fascinating.
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Awesome.
Once I noticed that I was dreaming. I remembered that, maybe 10 years earlier, my English teacher had said when she falls down somewhere in her dreams, she remembers she can fly… so I decided not to wake up, but to enjoy dreaming and simply take off. Just so, like Superman. I liked it.
…
That could be meant in two very different ways.
*hugs*
*tea of lemon balm fresh from the garden*
*chocolate*
*more hugs*
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
If you can manage to come to LA on Nov. 7th, maybe 8th and/or maybe 9th…
…or maybe Las Vegas on Nov. 2nd to 5th, though I’ll have a tightly crammed schedule at what will likely be the biggest Society of Vertebrate Paleontology conference so far…
:-)
You simply read every comment.
You should do that anyway. :-)
:-D
I’m used to it, and I still don’t like it.
I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Did your ex pull the blanket away or steamroller you or something?
When they’re posted in public…
Seconded!
It doesn’t. Nobody in power has thought that far. The claim in the Declaration of Independence that one of the reasons for having a government is that it must “provide for the common Welfare” was some kind of lie or something.
We once had a Save cicely’s Ass Fund and a Diagnose Lynna Fund. If anyone has started a Keep starstuff91 Alive Fund, I’ll contribute…
Over here, the university hour has 45 minutes. This way there’s almost always a 15-minute break between any two courses, and you don’t always need all of it for moving from one to the next. Courses that do take several hours in a row always contain breaks set by the professor(s).
Does an American university hour have 60 minutes? Or is that perhaps different from one university to the next?
Why an ice pack? A dinner doesn’t spoil in half a day; not even in an entire day if it’s not too moist.* And is a lunch box anything other than tupperware?
* When I was in Paris, I always cooked two servings when I cooked rice. When it was hot, I had to make sure to let the second serving dry overnight, or it would change its smell.
Over here, parents are theoretically obliged to support their children through university (in addition to the welfare state). That’s nigh impossible to enforce, though.
ROTFLMAO!!!
~:-|
WTF.
*hug* ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
*hug* ^_^ ^_^ ^_^
Heh. I could say the same for my definition of “edible”!
<obligatory>Orgy !!</obligatory>
This assumes there’s a fixed death date which is determined in advance.
What, it’s even more delicious than it already sounds? :-9
:-) :-) :-)
…which is what you get when you run risi-pisi through Vienna. The peas are explicitly mentioned (in Italian).
Of course, you must know that mixing rice and vegetables is an abomination, separate from the abomination that peas already are all on their own.
*facepalm*
:-D
I need to find the linguist blog where they pointed out all the many different languages you can hear in that film.
Walton @324 Email sent.
Walton (@324):
Signed and FB-shared. I’d actually already gotten the link from a friend who’s a local political activist.
I might make pumpkin muffins later tonight.
*drools*
My favorite thing about fall is that everything is pumpkin: lattes, muffins, pies, milk shakes, anything else you can think of in which you can insert pumpkin.
I love pumpkin.
Sorry, that was as far as I scrolled up…I saw “pumpkin” and got excited.
Ex is still being unusually jerk-ish and even took my dog (yes, the one we just adopted in June) and two cats to the local shelter (he told them he couldn’t take care of them).
I need to go find someone/something to yell at.
Might as well yell at myself for screwing up a simple blockquote.
Should read:
*drools*
My favorite thing about fall is that everything is pumpkin: lattes, muffins, pies, milk shakes, anything else you can think of in which you can insert pumpkin.
I love pumpkin.
Ex is still being unusually jerk-ish and even took my dog (yes, the one we just adopted in June) and two cats to the local shelter (he told them he couldn’t take care of them).
I need to go find someone/something to yell at.
@ Squigit
It’s ok. I love pumpkin too.
Sorry to hear about your ex. That really sucks. Are you going to be able to get the dog and cats back?
Squigit:
I keep seeing pumpkin-spice ales from various craft brewers in the liquor store, but I haven’t quite talked myself into trying one.
Squigit,
And it never occurred to ex to ask you how you felt about this? I can think of someone to yell at.
I wish there was little bar with a set of pool tables that I could go to after work, either for a quiet drink or a friendly game. I guess I’ll have to settle for online pool and whatever beer we have in the house. Or none.
————————————-
I’ll probably be in charge of the kids in the after-school program tomorrow. We have a college student coming in to help, but I never, ever like such days. I didn’t like them when I first started, and I still don’t. Every time I finish one out and realize I made it through, I just want to go home and forget about it until next time.
————————————-
Still not sure about compulsory voting, but the idea of a separate organization setting up how elections will be done appeals to me. A big problem might if a member is hoping the candidate of their choice will win – there’d have to be some way of making sure they can’t rig the election if they tried. Still, a third party doing the job would be good.
Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the corrections.
“Allopath” sounds like one of those bad, wooish categories even though it isn’t. I noticed that another Threadizen pointed out that “allopath” was a category made up by the woo purveyors.
So allopath equals “medical doctor” most of the time, and that doctor may not be a specialist.
And Homeopath or Naturopath equals pretender to the throne of medical practitioner.
I find myself suspicious of “nutritionist” of late. Seems some are legit, and some are not.
Nutritionist means little, but dietician is pretty legit around here.
Pumpkin ale: why?
I hang at a small bar with 18 taps (one PBR, one cider, one Frambois, one Paulaner, one Guiness and the rest rotating craft brews). Over the next few weeks I expect to see at least six or 8 different pumpkin ales go up, sometimes 3 at a time. They are served with cinnamon sugar on the rim of the pint glass and are ridiculously popular with people of both sexes.
I just don’t get it. It’s one thing to add extracts of a large squash to your beer. I mean, why?, but OK I guess. It’s another thing to add cinnamon and nutmeg and spicy flavors to make it taste like a pie. No thanks. But beer plus actual sugar? I draw my line way, way before that.
I like pumpkin pie OK but I like beer-real beer, with malt and hops and no fruit or vegetable additives or flavorings or spices–much better.
bleh, yank my chain why don’t ya
Hey… I’m sorry to everyone for being such a jerk here last night. :-( I was tired and behaving erratically. I’m better now.
OT: This term I’m taking a clinical course where I’m going to be working on immigration law issues with refugees, asylum-seekers and other migrants, at a non-profit in the Boston area. I’m really looking forward to it: it’s a really important opportunity for me, since I want to work in immigration and asylum law as the main focus of my career.
I also had my first class today on Trafficking and Labor Migration. It’s a really fascinating subject: much of the course material relates to exploitation of trafficked migrant workers for sex work, domestic labour and servitude, etc., and there’s an emphasis on feminist theoretical approaches, since it touches on some of the key issues in feminist legal theory. So I guess it will bolster my understanding of feminist theory and gender studies – areas in which I don’t really have an academic background at the moment, so I’m looking forward to expanding my knowledge.*
(*Looking back at my posts here from 2008 or so, I’m very embarrassed by how clueless and unconsciously-sexist I used to be on the subjects of feminism and male privilege. I owe a lot to some of the people here for helping to educate me in those areas. I’ve learnt a lot over the last couple of years, but I still have much to learn.)
Meh… sorry to ramble on aimlessly about my life. But I guessed these were things that some people here might be interested in.
Umm…because it’s delicious.
I hope so. Dog was at the previous shelter for several months before we adopted him, so I’m hoping (probably in vain, but it helps) that he’ll still be there when I get a car and can go get him. I’m staying with family so I couldn’t bring him with me. We had decided before I left that Ex would keep him for Son, who absolutely loves him.
He’s such a good, gentle, loving dog. I feel so badly for him; this is his second time being put in a shelter.
They’re pretty delicious, you should try one. :)
Oh, I forgot to mention that Ex called one of my relatives who lives about an hour from him to come get the animals to take to the shelter. The only reason I found out is because my name was on all the adoption paper work and the shelter had to call and notify me.
I asked if I could refuse permission to surrender them and was told no. :(
I’m watching a movie so old …
how old is it!?
Marilyn Monroe is a brunette.
nah, that can’t be it.
It has to be a marketing thing.
Or people actually prefer pumpkin pie to beer. That I will never understand.
What’s next, Creme Brulee Stout? Tiramisu Lager?
The only thing worse than mixing beer and dessert is mixing beer and coffee. YUK!
Want.
Agreed.
Same here. I’ve gotten a lot better about using sexist language and my consciousness has really been raised with regards to slut-shaming just by reading the threads here.
Now, if we could just cure you of your love of royalty… ;)
:-( :-( :-( :-(
He does, indeed, sound like a jerk.
====
I’ve never heard of pumpkin ale before. But I don’t like beer in general, so I doubt I’d be keen.
(It sounds like a weird concept, anyway: if you want a dessert, why not just have a dessert? It’s not like the beer has fewer calories. :-/ But YMMV.)
Seriously. The Tea Party debate on CNN.
Red meat horrorfest.
Abolishing Social Security has come and gone already.
At this pace they will have to finish up by praying for armageddon and telling everyone they should give 100% of their wages to the job creators.
Squigit, perhaps you need to remind your ex that the way exes are supposed to act is nice and kind and polite, thereby heaping burning-hot coals of regret onto the other ex as to why they Ever Let Him Go and how their lives will now Never Be That Good Again Because They Really Messed Up That Time, Boy Howdy.
au contraire, it’s beer made specifically for people who don’t like beer in general.
I guess.
That’s all I can figure out.
*shrug*
going for a beer.
@ Walton
Sounds both exciting and enriching. I’m sure you’ll get more out of your classes and experience since you’re already primed to think of things from a feminist point of view.
*Hugs offered in case you need ’em*
(& if the teasing gets to you, remember that in me you have at least one fellow monarchist among the Pharyngulites :P )
(Looks horrified…)
(… makes sign of the Reinheitsgebot…)
Aye, lad. ‘Tis the work of evil forces from dark places*, make no mistake.)
(*/Probably, more specifically, from fashionably poorly-lit fern bar/martini bars that won’t even serve you a martini without dousing it with raspberry syrup or some deeper horror, first.)
As we were putting our stuff in our tent we were informed that it had blown away last week.
He may have been kidding.
I beg to differ. There are good pumpkin beers and really bad ones.
Dogfish head being an example of a good one. It’s not something you want to drink all the time, but if the brewer is worth a shit they balance it well and the pumpkin isn’t all overbearign as much as just giving it more body and richness.
This I don’t understand.
Hey, Walton,
I realize this is totally off topic even for TET, but I’m seriously considering going to law school, but I don’t really even know where to begin.
Any chance I could get some advice from you, as you have just lived it?
Good pumpkin ales
Dogfish Head Pumpkin Ale (good balance)
Wyerbacher Imperial Pumpkin Ale (very mild spice, but good richenss)
Southern Tier Pumpking (though this is borderline too pumpkin spice)
And Pumpkin ale brewing goes back to colonial times with pumpkin being substituted for portions of the malt because of malt shortages. Brewed differently than it is used today as a flavor / body enhancer. Apparently (citation needed) George Washington brewed a recipe. I can’t find a direct link but apparently there is a recipe from American Philosophical Society in February, 1771 (founded by Ben Franklin and had Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Paine and Hamilton among others as members).
I’m guessing you’re in the US? (Correct me if I’m wrong.) If so, which state are you in? And which field(s) of law are you interested in practising?
I’ll help with anything I can, but bear in mind that I did my law degree in the UK, where the system of legal education is quite different. (Unlike the US, law degrees in the UK are undergraduate degrees, so one doesn’t have to have a prior bachelor’s degree before starting a law degree course.) I’m currently at Harvard on a one-year LLM program, which is an advanced degree for those who already have a US or foreign law degree. (In practice, the LLM is mainly designed for international students, and about 90 percent of the LLM students here are non-US.)
By contrast, if you want to qualify as a lawyer in the US, you’ll need to apply for a JD program, which normally takes three years of study. I can’t really give you any advice on JD admissions, since I haven’t gone through that process. You should read up on the Law School Admission Test and the admissions process; and I know there are some Pharyngulites with US JDs, so hopefully they can advise you better than I can.
The other issue is finance. US law schools are very expensive, of course, but some are very generous with financial aid. (In my case, I can only afford to be here because Harvard gave me a large chunk of financial aid and a low-interest loan.) If you think funding might be an issue, be sure to research what kinds of financial aid arrangements each school offers, in making the decision about where to apply.
If you want to know more, feel free to find me on Facebook and send me a private message, or get my email address from one of the regulars (I won’t post it here, since I don’t want to attract spambots).
So I just finished watching Red State (which I was going to do last night but I didn’t for some reason). It was pretty decent. A little preachy though.
I’m watching CNN and they’re talking about the debate (which I didn’t watch). Apparently one of the candidates was asked if a 30 year old who’s sick without health insurance should be allowed to die. People in the audience (tea party idiots) said yes! WHAT THE FUCK?
So what you’re saying is that it could be worse?
I can hardly hear the generator but the geese are sure noisy.
More evidence that the Tea Party is where the almost-sociopathic people go.
The fact that people here claim to read it startled me into getting off my ass and updating the blog
Explanations of the world’s religious views in under 3 minutes
ALMOST?
Someone please say something reasonable and hopeful about humanity. I feel like I’m drowning in christian-conservative stupidity.
starstuff91:
Sure.
It too, in time, shall pass.
You mean I have to give up hope that some really are just stupid and don’t realize . . .
*weary sigh* OK OK.
@ John Morales
I guess that’s something, but I have to live on the same planet and in the same country as these awful people. Hell, I have to live in the same state as this particular group of idiots.
No, creme brulee liquer. OMFG that stuff’s good. It’s a good thing it has alcohol in it because I probably would have drank the whole bottle in five minutes if it didn’t, and it’s probably got a ton of fat as well. Unfortunately you can’t get it in the US.
Erulora:
Favorite feature of 1.8: 512-meter ceilings. You’ve got room to build now without burrowing down to bedrock first.
Does diamond *ever* spawn? I have literally only seen a single diamond vein, and I’ve done quite a bit of digging.
####
Lynna:
“I find myself suspicious of “nutritionist” of late. Seems some are legit, and some are not.”
Toothiologists?
####
I only rarely remember my dreams. I’m beginning to think I rarely dream at all. And when I do, it’s Not Pleasant.
####
C++ is made of pure, congealed evil.
Er…it’s “Sikhism”, not “Sheikism”. Bunch of other (more minor) typos too. Pretty much sums them up, though.
That Peak Organic coffee amber ale does sound strange… but I’ve had some truly wonderful coffee (or espresso) stouts.
The Republican audience also clapped at a debate when one of the moderators mentioned that Perry executed 200+ people as Governor of Texas. These “pro-lifers” seem to be bent on proving Orwell right on political language.
Need I say that if they were asked about a 30 minute old fertilised egg (is it even an embryo at that point?) they would call its deliberately caused death a heinous murder whose perpetrator should be punished?
@starstuff
Here’s my reply to a guy trolling over at The Friendly Atheist who was saying if atheists win, there are many who won’t surrender (trying to paint secularists as totalitarian communists):
Sometimes, perspective helps. If not this time, this might cheer you up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRelMcKCe8
and let’s hope that doesn’t embed!
The free speech poll at the article regarding the teacher who stepped on the flag is back up and needs attention — it’s currently 44% support her lesson, 55% do not.
http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Kansas-teachers-lesson-on-free-speech-criticized/arfN8IMmmE–TqS1JThVZQ.cspx?p=Comments
*facepalm*
A “government injection”? Are all childhood vaccinations “government injections”? Or just the one that would protect women from a sexually transmitted disease? It, of course, would only encourage sex. Just as Bill Maher noted: “if you give a kid a tetanus shot, she’ll want to jab rusty nails in her feet”.
Also:
Fuck the Republican party.
Huge setback for teh goddists. There is a planet (two actually) that can in principle support life.
Somewhere there is a slime mold evolving in the complete absence of god! I can imagine a mormon space program being set up now so that by the time sentience is reached, their missionaries can be landing their spacecraft.
Link: ‘Super-Earth,’ 1 of 50 Newfound Alien Planets, Could Potentially Support Life
Link: Mormons in outer space.
* borked *
… newly discovered planet …
[[Okay, here comes a many-screener! Sorry about the very long scroll, on the road all day and wanted to respond to everything…]]
Yeah, they really can :( About them keeping friends, that’s part of what makes this so heartbreaking and bewildering for me – we’ve known each other and been friends for a really long time, and it’s late in the game for “true colors” to be revealing themselves. I mean, don’t get me wrong, those people have some bad shit embedded in their heads and I’ve run into it (misogyny and racism, as well as a very conflicted brand of homophobia). I’ve had trouble dealing with their behavior in the past when they have acted dismissive and disrespectful of boundaries. I am just not used to them being actively cruel to me.
:) *hug* Thanks. I hope I meet some nice people too.
This is awesome. I want this. Walton! I want this!
Thanks, Walton. It really does make me feel better that so many people I respect have trouble with people too.
Soooooo freaking cool.
Ing! Yay life stuff :D Also, I hope we’ll get to read some fiction from you soon. Excited.
*hugback* Me too. It’s stupid that they chose the last night that I was back to be absolute jerkasses.
Caine, you always help :) Hugs and hugs. Saving that on a file on my desktop in case I start beating myself up about it again. I was doing that most of the car ride today. But you’re right – I was doing pretty well in LA. I mean, certainly not as well as I’d like, but I had some qualified successes. Maybe it’s true that they’re having some jealousy – I think the fact that they are having an uncharacteristically rough time lately probably contributes too. Given that, I feel bad being angry at them, but honestly they were acting really shitty. Maybe a break is the thing.
Done.
Hugs! Thanks! :)
You’re very right. That whole experience could be interpreted as a strong dose of “I don’t belong here.” Truly, I don’t belong there, and a lot of my links to there are fraying. The problem is I never knew where to leave to, and I certainly don’t feel like I belong in LA. (Of course, I just watched an Angel episode in which Lorne said: “I don’t belong here. I hate it here. You know where I belong? L.A. You know why? Nobody belongs there. It’s the perfect place for guys like us.” Joss Whedon’s always right, right?)
I’ve often wondered if they really can be considered my friends anymore, what with the aforementioned boundary issues and conflicts. The problem is, as I mentioned, I still just care about them a lot. Every one of them, individually, has something going on that makes me want to reach out to them every time I think about them. Which is unusual for me. But my history indicates that I have a strong tendency to try to forgive and forget exceptionally shitty behavior when it’s aimed at me, to my marked detriment. I dunno :(
:) I hope so. I hope it turns out okay.
Squee :D I basically wanted to listen to that all night when I saw it. No worries!
You’re right, “gutted” is a good word for it. It was quite a shock and I’m still reeling – partly because there was that kernel of truth that makes it hard to separate what’s me and what’s them being jackasses. Thanks. And you’re not a stranger – I notice you around. :)
Boo and hiss. *stomp*
All decent people’s social norms, I guess :) I suppose that’s all that really counts.
Hehe, no jumping or screaming in the hotel. But thanks!
Hugs!
Thanks, Psych-Oh :) That’s a nice possibility to think of, honestly, because I was wondering why they suddenly hated me. And I hope I meet… some kind of more friends.
Yeah, they really fucking do. Also, yeah :) I’ve recently been becoming increasingly convinced that Pharyngulites are the only people I can trust to usually not be horrendously shitty, and that’s making me sad. But I have a certain level of fear that if I meet Pharyngulites in person I might break it somehow. I’m not much of a person in person. Of course that’s mostly the jackass-induced regression talking.
Well… kinda. Except I kept getting carsick. But I think I did a pretty good job anyhow…
I’m pretty sure I’m always specifically myself in my dreams. Is that me being cis speaking, or am I just that self-
centered? :^)
I’m usually female but very often not me. With one bizarre exception – I don’t ever, ever, ever have sex dreams of any kind, but recently I had my very first actual sex dream. I was male in it. Fully equipped. It was the weirdest dream ever.
*squee*
That is incredibly shitty. I hope you recover all of your friends. What a jackass your ex is. Grr. *hugs you and pets your doggish and kittyish companions*
Good morning
Squigit
Urgh, that’s bad. HUgs for you if you want them, and feel free to yell and vent.
Is it the revenge-jerkishness or the come-back-jerkishness?
My sister’s husband threatened to do the same with their dog if she left him, and their dog is 15 yrs, half blind and deaf, you may guess what would happen to it in a shelter.
I love pumpkins, too.
Whisk(e)y
I definetly couldn’t say what my favourite scotch is. With Irish Whiskey I go for Powers, but there are too many different scotch whiskys tasting so different that it’s almost as if you’d ask me what my favourit food was. I generally prefer single malts over blends and really like the island whiskys. For the rest it depends. Some days a Laphroig is all I want, some days the idea itself makes my tummy cringe. We usually have about 4 open bottles.
Tea-partoers
Ehm, allowed to die like “I don’t want t live anymore” or left to die like “help, help – Fuck you?”
People against public healthcare always display that they know shit about economics. Even if we leave all the ideas about humanity, empathy, dignity aside and operate on a strict economic basis in which people are like machines, it is stupid.
If people were like cars nobody would suggest any such a thing.
Raising people to 30 costs money, just like building a car costs money. When they’re 30 they have probably not even “given back” to society what they cost. But there’s a lot of work left in them, they can “pay back” and even create more, just like your car at 20.000 km still has a long producztive life in front. You don’t throw it away because you need new tires at this point.
Same goes for denying primary healthcare so people have to wait until they can use the ER. That’s like noticing that your car makes strange sounds but don’t do anything about it. Not when the sounds get louder, not when the car does “strange things”, but only when it breaks down and you can call the free pick-up service.
@ Squigit
It sounds like your Ex has decided on the bizarre ‘I’ll make you sorry you left me by confirming how smart you were to leave’ response to your separation. It also sounds like he’s either attempting to recruit your family to ‘his side’ or annoying them on purpose in hopes that they will blame you.
I’m a court reporter and I have sat in on hundreds of divorce disasters. Yes, it could be worse. It could have been Son he casually dumped off somewhere to spite you.
If you don’t mnind some advice, which obviously you are free to pick and choose from or reject in toto, I would strongly suggest that you e-mail all of your relatives immediately, relate the very sad ‘requesting Uncle Mervin to take Boy’s animals to the shelter’ story, apologize profusely that his ‘unwillingness to be mature’ is causing problems (hopefully this establishes the proper attitude in the recipient) and tell them all that if he calls them with more such requests instead of making the trip down they should give you a heads up so you can take care of it yourself.
I’d also warn them not to give the ex information about you and (if it’s true) that you don’t want anybody trying to “patch things up” or get the two of you back together. I add the last because partners who try to recruit the other person’s relatives often use that as an excuse for their needing to talk about the reliationship with them, ‘she must be having a breakdown or something, help me save her from herself’.
I suggest you write a summary of this and any other incidents as they happen and e-mail them to yourself so that if you need the details later, they will have been preserved with a timestamp in a clean format you wouldn’t mind handing over to a judge or cop. People who decide to go the ‘I’ll be the biggest jerk you ever saw’ route rarely stop at one incident because, AMAZINGLY, women rarely react as they expect, by being filled with regret at leaving.
I would also suggest that you record every single phone call you have with him and be very conscious of the fact he could be doing the same. It’s become a common maneuver to phone and try to push the other person’s buttons, in hopes a display of temper or vulgarity will provide a useful weapon in court. I strongly suggest that you try to talk to him about necessary matters like visitation in the most unemotional, neutral tones you possibly can. Hot button items can be deferred by saying, I’ll have to think that over and get back to you.
I’d also suggest you send e-mails to confirm what was talked about and agreed upon along the lines of ‘my understanding from our phone call is that we have agreed I will bring Boy to the mall on Saturday and you will be waiting for him at McD’s at 3:30 PM, and that you will return him here where we are staying at 5:00 PM on Sunday’. If things are clearly stated ahead of time, it lessens the chances anyone has misunderstood the agreement, or will get confused about the details, or will try to jerk the other person around by claiming they are late or early, etc.
You have my single sympathy. Went through it twice myself, it is really tough, but it helps if you can focus on the most important thing involved being Boy and making it as easy as possible for him. Again, truly don’t mean to be directive and managing, just offering some advice which you can certainly ignore if it’s off target or inappropriate to your situation.
(Ignoring all Tea Party and Republican-related news for reasons of preservation of sanity)
Red. Letter. Day.
Sourdough Update— I will never go back to using commercial quick-rising yeast. Made my first loaf tonight from my sourdough starter and while it’s not yet perfect, it rocks. Formed a boule and baked it in a blistering oven inside a stainless steel pot. Crisp steamed crust. Lovely, irregular crumb with random large holes throughout. Stretchy, almost glassy-looking crumb structure, not at all like the mealy, spongey, doughy stuff you get from store bread or quick yeast bread. Oh. And sour ‘n’ tangy.
Wow. I have a lot to learn, but if the first attempt is this good, I can’t wait. I’ll be spending much less money on artisan breads from local bakeries (sorry).
Being day 6, and having observed that my starter is robust and capable of rising to double in size after feeding, it is safe to name her (since I know I won’t have to abandon her on a hillside and try again). My starter is Phoenicia, and she’s bad-ass.
Theophontes — in a couple of weeks you shall have your dried starter culture in the mail. Just let Phoenicia build up her strength, and then I’ll send you some her. As someone always looking for the cheap, hand-made Christmas gift, I’m giving everyone some dried Phoenicia and instructions for bread-making this year.
Thrift store treasure— After finding myself without candles or lamps when Hurricane Irene came through, I’ve been keeping an eye out for kerosene/oil lamps. Very handy to have around when the power goes out, especially in winter.
OMG. Got a depression-era ribbed glass kerosene lamp at Goodwill today for . . what? Yeah. That’s right. Three dollars. Very handsome tall table-top model that looks great in my old (and small and modest) house.
I like it so much I’m thinking of scavenging for as many such lamps as I can get and mounting them in brackets on the walls. It would be awesome to light the house with oil lamps during Vermont’s long and cold winter evenings. Anyone here done something like that?
/Little House on the Prairie mental masturbation
Squigit, is there a way we could Pharyngulate your ex?
LOL! Best response ever.
Just diving into the thread, but…
SallyStrange @43, thanks for that. I had a polka going through my head while reading that (my BiL is a tuba player) but that cracked me up.
Hmmm, what has happened to the left-hand sidebar?
Oh, daughter #1 has found a way to get dressed super-quick (apart from either not taking of her PJs or not putting on her underwear):
-get dressed at normal speed
-shout “faster faster!” all the time :)
@ Josh
..sq…sq…
squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
eeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am in love already. Phoenicia, Phoenicia, Phoenicia … sounds like poetry.
This is bliss. I shall update you with my new address soon. (We are going to move next month.)
……………………………
Josh for President!
@Gilliel
Oh noze, my sqeee has broken teh inerwebz.
Be sure the bracket holds the lamp far enough from the wall so the wall doesn’t get hot. Some brackets include a brass disk on the wall to protect it. Hanging a small mirror on the wall level with the flame will also help protect the wall from the heat and reflect the light out into the room where it is needed.
Be sure wall hung lamps are in positions where they cannot be bumped by a shoulder or elbow — above a small table, for instance, but are not in a position where you will have to stretch and be off balance when you reach them down for filling or adjust them. As the wick burns away, it will start to smoke and need to be turned up, so you need the lamp where you can reach it easily.
If a lamp smokes and blackens the inside of the chimney, turn the wick down until it goes completely out. Do not try to wash a hot lamp chimney, it may either crack or burn you. Never, ever go to bed and leave an oil lamp lit. In fact, I wouldn’t go out of the room for more than a few minutes and leave one lit. They seem to need constant fiddling and then can leave a huge black smudge on your ceiling quicker than spit.
Extra lamp chimneys and extra wicks are really important! Lamp burners and lamp chimneys come in different sizes, and have to match. as well, so you either need to be sure you get all the same size or have spares in all the sizes. Don’t know about Outside, but up here the wicks and lamp chimneys are available at all the hardware stores. And of course there are lots of places on the web with parts and pieces.
What the bloody hell happened to the layout?
Was it really the squeeeeeee? The width is exactly as long as it, but I’ve never seen anything like that before. The left sidebar is gone everywhere though.
Oh, crap. I knew I was talking too much, but I have NO CLUE if I did this!
@ Midnight Rambler
It was a very loud squeee. It was building up in antici ………………………………………………………………PATION!
We were informed yesterday, to the surprise of almost all parents present, that after showering after gym class, our kids dress themselves.
Also, apparently they brush their teeth all by themselves for as long as the hourglass runs. With regular toothpaste, instead of “I don’t like mint, I want banana flavoured Teletubby”-toothpaste.
Changes will be made at home accordingly.
Opera -> ‘Fit to width’ -> no problems.
No left hand sidebar, though.
Arghhh, by FSTDT I came across a Rapture Ready thread where they discuss homosexuals giving blood.
Some quotes:
I guess according to this person a female bisexual isn’t a deviant. Anyway, a nice way for bigots eliminate themselves from the gene pool.
Am I a masochist because I read that shit or a sadist because I shared it?
POOPYHEAD!!! What happened to the layout!?! It’s not a good idea at all to restrict the list of recent posts and comments to five, and the direct link to TET has disappeared. Worst of all, this page is now at least as broad as a 24″ screen, and what I write in the comment window appears about a minute after I type it!
If it’s still possible to submit comments, here’s txpiper complaining that the vines don’t allow him to pluck the sour grapes! Have fun if you can.
Good morning!
First Approximation,
Definitely both. I guess I’m a masochist too because I clicked on the link.
Other than that, yay for lifting the ban. I don’t see what’s the use of that 12 months period, but the whole thing is a big step forward anyway.
——-
Now, where did the submit button go? Oh, here it is.
Something broked.
The squee heard ’round the world.
^This.
Also, I don’t like that you have to click to see recent comments (yeah, I’m lazy).
It made me jump to the left.
The layout of other threads has improved… but here I’m still typing blind (1-minute delay), and this page is still far too broad. And it still makes the fan run.
The links to the recent comments don’t even work, BTW. The name of the blog and the date are missing in each URL.
Somebody has changed a running system!!!
Yah. Stuffed-up big-time, this is.
:(
Oh fuck. The comment window, and all comments, and the space at the top in which the video is centered, are exactly as broad as Teh Squee Heard Around Teh World.
ScienceBlogs has an overflow feature for this. FtB gets well and truly b0rked instead. Off to greener pastures.
Hm, in Firefox 3.6 I don’t get any left or right sidebars at all now, much less a list with five recent comments! The main column has stretched to fill up the entire width of the page and then some;
All the way to “some” that I just wrote was in one line of text going far, far off to he right.
Well, I have a big screen. If I reduce (using FireFox) the zoom so text appears to be around 4 points, everything fits.
(No sidebars, of course)
—
Ah well, I’ll check again after PZ has woken, to see if he fixes things.
Other pages look fine. Alethian Worldview looks perfect, though the number of recent comments is still left wanting.
01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
Hm. Comment box fits 212 characters per line.
(Yee-haw!)
Um. 213.
What der hey? Need wide-screen mode to see this thread.
<homestar>Oops, you bwoke it.</homestar>
The left sidebar is, alas, gone everywhere. The right sidebar, however, is still there! It’s just really far off to the right.
Sister 2 is watching How I Met Your Mother. On the wall in Barney’s office: motivational posters with “teamwork”, “perfection”, “strength”… and… “awesomeness”.
Instead of seeking greener pastures, I scrolled up, because the fan was out. (Turns out it only goes on when I’m in the comment window.) So…
*squee*
You can’t break much while you’re being hugged. ^_^
(…erm. That may have come out scary. Not my intention. :-S )
Interesting…
Oh, wait. For a year or two now, when I lie in bed and am very close to falling asleep, I sometimes daydream about sex in very, very, very little detail. So little detail that I occasionally forget who has which equipment. However, in that state of mind, I used to forget how many nostrils I have! Often I assumed I had four in a horizontal row (and three of them were full).
Haven’t had a sex dream since my very first wet dream at the age of 14. And even then I arguably woke up a bit too early. :-)
*snortle* :-D :-D :-D
:-)
David M:
I enquired about fly/drive becasue, had you been driving, I would have offered a homemade dinner as you passed by.
Is the formatting here on Pharyngula screwed up for anyone else, or is it just me? One column, and the text goes off the left side of the screen at the end of sentences.
Hmm, even on Pharyngula formatting seems only very broken on TET. Other threads are still missing the left side bar, but not obviously adjusted to my TV screen.
Augh this is just terrible. First off the whole fact that the blog is borked, and now the fact that I can’t get into Firefox still – so I’m in IE. And they decided to reload Firefox. And they got rid of all my addons, so now I have popups and scripts and problems galore. I hate this place sometimes…
[nostalgia]
Back in the day, decent monitors could display 80 characters per line.
(Good ones could do 132 characters x 24 lines
(with fancy shit, even — underscore, blink etc))
<old fart>
Good to know that it ain’t just me on the borkmatting.
Oh, and I meant right, not left on #452.
[meta]
While this problem exists, users can ameliorate it
by inserting hard line breaks
[enter]soas to restrict line width.
(FWIW)
At least we have a working archives.
I’m using Firefox. It works for me, including adblock.
The new layout, with no left sidebar and restricted “recent” boxes, is the new FtB layout. Here is Camels With Hammers gushing about it because it’s better than the old FtB default layout.
With no ‘recent’ boxes, how can we tell where the
MRA-Team or the Libertarianschew toys are?@Tis Himself:
You had to install Firefox and install adblock. It’s my system, not the blog
that’s the problem. My proxy got broken somehow over the weekend and to fix it
the SAs re-installed Firefox without my Noscript and Adblock.
No, the proxy still doesn’t work.
I don’t like the new layout. If anything, it looks more cluttered to me, with archives and recent stuff squashed in a couple of boxes on upper right side.
@John Morales
Good idea. I think just reaching an arbitrary number of letters and hitting enter would be
a better idea than to let the posts go across the entire darn page.
Might be a bit hard with typing huge paragraphs, however.
Och I dinnae think the engines can take much moor Capt’n!
Sorry about your problem, Katherine Lorraine. Homebrew systems tend to be more delicate. :-(
Benjamin
I can’t say. Haven’t seen any yet, but I got distracted pretty early in my mine by running into an abandoned mineshaft. The thing is huge and sprawling (much like the current blog layout, which hopefully gets fixed soon). So I’ve spent the last few days exploring it. No idea how many in-game days that’s been. There are utilities to locate blocks of certain types. If the save game format hasn’t changed significantly, you should be able to run one of those and see if any diamond turns up. And if you do it right, it won’t really give you spoilers, because you won’t be able to tell where the diamonds are, just a hint at their overall distribution.
What I read about abandoned mines hasn’t really matched what I’ve found in-game, so far. It’s really just been a source of inordinate amounts of wood and string. Not a bad source of iron, and enough gold to get started (got my clock and a bit left over). Plenty of rail tracks, though.
Digging the hunger system. I like little bits of added realism like that. I used to kind of role play that a bit before, but since food didn’t stack, it was pretty inconvenient.
Now the long wait for 1.9. Really wanting to see some NPC’s to roam around.
Now I have to take a shower, get dressed, and visit the cardiologist so I can be stress-tested.
See you all in a couple of hours, unless I have a heart attack first.
Ok. Santorum is officially a racist moron.
This would make me hate Perry marginally less by comparison, except that I just finished reading about Perry’s staunch support for the execution of several people who were most likely innocent. (How is he morally different from a terrorist, exactly? After all, killing innocent people to make a political point is more-or-less the definition of terrorism.
Loss of left sidebar is on purpose? Do not like. :( I at least want the recent comments back so I can see what’s going on right at the moment.
Found on PostSecret; discussed on Reddit. From the original “Falling Man” article:
Such a loving deity, who’d condemn a man who jumped rather than burn. And his followers are real peaches, too. /spit
@Erulora / Benjamin:
Oh, 1.8 was released? I’m gotta update! (I was playing League of Legends last night.)
Not sure which Repugnican candidate I’d prefer to have screwing me over.
They all seem pretty unlikable.
The ultimate 9/11 artwork.
Kath,
Not officially, yet. There’s a pre-release. Digging up link with instructions…..
Forum topic:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/611324-regarding-18-pre-release-version-2-released/
Direct link:
http://assets.minecraft.net/1_8-pre2/minecraft.jar
Open a window, type “%appdata%/minecraft” in the location. Find minecraft.jar, replace
it with the one you download. You’ll be able to use your existing saves, but you may
have to walk a ways before you get any of the new generated stuff, because anything
that was generated before the new version would still be there. Jens just released
a new version of the prerelease today, so it should have less bugs and tweaks to a
couple features since I installed last. Haven’t looked at the list yet.
Hopefully 1.8 will be “officially” out soon.
@Erulora:
Huntsman at least has a basis in reality – he at least is willing to listen to scientists about
evolution and climate change. But apparently he’s pretty despicable in other ways I’ve heard.
Although the fact he agrees with evolution and climate change makes him unelectable by the
Republican base.
Yeah, that 9/11 print is truly moving. Every time I see it I feel something moving. It may just be gas though.
I have been sampling the “Angry Robot” publishers at the British branch of Amazon
with some good results. I have just ordered “The Feaster From The Stars” (yes, I
know Lovecraft wrote a story with the same title).
There are a lot of better than average Fantasy and Sf titles. “Embedded” is an SF
take of journalists at war -in a very unusual manner.
In addition, I can recommend the “Peculiar Crimes” mystery novels.
PS The Swedish conservatives would not want to touch any of the Republican
candidates with a long stick. Culture over here has left the Republicans behind.
@ David M.
txpiper is an incorrigible chew toy. You have far more patience than I do.
@ Ms. Daisy Cutter
In terms of goddist “logic”, this is actually dead right. (He is “committing suicide”
thereby undermining god’s wish that he dies by burning.) But to actually come up with this convolution –
to spend one’s time thinking up such perverse technicalities and then (sicker still) propagating them…
What good could ever come of it?
As an atheist one may come up with really nasty things to say about imaginary beings. But to use such revolting thinking
against a real human being? No way. You have to be a xtian to sink that low.
*bleeaugh*
‘Tis Himself, hope you have a stress-free stress-test!
When assessing the logic and sanity of the nominees, I just realised
N’yarlath-Hotep would make a good Republican candidate.
Is it possible to nominate a fictional character? The use of
fictional facts may be seen as a precedent.
Apparently, not the squee. We’ve got Top Men looking at the problem right now.
@PZ:
Who?
All pitchers, no catchers? That could be awkward.
Another heretic! Why do these earthlings underestimate the Awesome Power of Phoenicia?
Hey, PZ! Did you see this piece of tosh yet? You’re mentioned in it by name.
Posting this here, FYI. This doesn’t do Obama’s Reelection chances any good.
PS. This thread formatting is all messed up for some reason. It’s not really usable.
Fuck’s sake, what a concern troll. OMG WE CAN’T CALL TEABAGGERS “ZOMBIES”!!
He probably disapproves of calling them “teabaggers,” for that matter.
Raven, #487: But, but, but the OFA and the DLC told me that nobody important cares about stuff like that, just the “professional left”!
@ Ms Daisy Cutter
The writer (Paul Wallace) seems to be arguing for an allegorical religion. Something like the pagan cult of Zeus, which was
proudly allegorical. Unfortunately xtianity is specifically not to be read in this way.(That would be blasphemy.)
And even if you could, what would one be aspiring to? Murder, hell, torment, bigotry…. there is nothing positively inspiring there.
Well, that has an implication that zombies are bad, even
worse than the teabaggers and that really isn’t fair to the zombies.
Imagine being a nice, liberal zombie and then being tossed together with
teabaggers. It could make those brains come right back up again.
As I mentioned in comment 434, the “recent comments” feature is still there. It’s just in the right sidebar, in the same place as the “recent posts” box – you have to click on “comments” to launch the javascript that makes it visible –, and both lists are limited to five entries. As I complained at Camels With Hammers, that’s simply not workable for Pharyngula.
PZ, you broke Teh Squee Heard Around Teh World into manageable pieces – the new culprit is comment 446, where John Morales wanted to see how long a line is.
Keyword fictitious president.
I’ve thought about this. You once said you’re submissive in bed, right? Maybe you’re not exclusively, or no longer, submissive, but this thought is so new to you that you clothed it in roleplay…???
…Um. Don’t feel obliged to reply. :-]
Classical Cipher,
I would suggest that you are just growing up in different fashion from your friends of old. You care for who they were in your past, not who they are now. Let them go. I had to do this with many of my youthful friends: letting them slip out of my life when I realized similar. Some left in my teens, but many more in my twenties. People change, it doesn’t say something wrong about you if you acknowledge that fact or even embrace it. Not everyone will grow distant in this journey, keep an open eye and you will note others who have drifted with your current. If nothing else, you have friends here who care.
Beatrice, if you’re a nice liberal zombie and your gore somehow gets scrambled with that of a teabagger, it’s not like there’d be two sets of gray matter to be separated from one another, know what I’m sayin’?
Dhorvath: I think you are right w/r/t CC’s “friends.” I’ve made the same mistake before, more than once.
CC: As another one who does not mingle easily in meatspace, I think you are better off in solitude than in the company of these people. Loneliness is hard, but it’s worse to be lonely in a group than to be lonely by oneself.
I’m reading the ridiculous tosh and I’m not through it yet, but I love that he’s so excited about Johnny Cash that he neglects to mention (or possibly doesn’t know) that A Boy Named Sue was not created by Cash, but by Shel Silverstein.
Plus his insistence that our lives must have some huge cosmic purpose because it would totally suck it they didn’t is just so painfully naive and self-deluded. I love that he condemns all those straw atheists for disliking stories because they have meaning. FSM, this man is fucking dense.
Daisy,
I’m really not impressed with the content or comments on that blog so far.
Oh, somebody fixed the format, but this thread still is sluggish for this old, decrepit computer. Might be an avery agressive flash video.
Erulóra, did you note the one commenter having a self-righteous meltdown because my internet handle is a play on the name of a weapon? Good grief.
I don’t know who Stephanie Svan is, but apparently my comment “You know what I tire of more than teabaggers being teabaggers? Passive-aggressive martyrs on soapboxes.” has her thinking I’m a teabagger or something. Not really sure what she thinks. Just that I have “fucked up priorities”. Uh, okay. I find one thing more tiring to deal with than another, so that tells her all she needs to know about my priorities. Non sequitur much?
Yeah. Weird. Especially considering that Cutter is an actual surname.