I was wondering why I was getting the sudden upsurge in hate mail, and one kind messenger was generous enough to tell me his source. In an ironic way, with naughty words. You might not want to look below the fold if you’re 3 years old or younger.
Received: from QMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.16])
Message-ID: <49B40AE7.2010807@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:13:59 -0500
From: “Baker, James M. ” <usnvet@comcast.net>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: pzmyers@gmail.com
Subject: CommentsI saw your criticism of Ray Comfort on Worldnetdaily.com. I believe exactly as Ray Comfort believes and when you call him an idiot and stupid, you’re calling me an idiot and stupid.
I’d like nothing more than to break every tooth out of your head, one by one; then poke your fucking eyeballs out and shove them straight-up your tightly-puckered asshole.
Go fuck yourself, pinhead jerk.
James M. Baker
Indianapolis, Indiana
Oh, my. James has some anger issues.
However, he is correct: if he believes exactly as Ray Comfort believes, then I am calling him an idiot and stupid. Comfort is probably a little smarter, actually, since he doesn’t make graphic, violent threats.
Mr Baker has sent me a follow-up email!
This is the typical liberal response: Sign me up for porn sites. I end up going to them. I never said I was a Christian, as your emailing drone apparatchiks assume.
I hate fags, atheists, muslims, illegal aliens, anti-American malcontents such as pinheaded communist professors (that’s to say, 97.6% of them, including you), etc…. I’m the most absolute hate-filled mother fucker you’ll ever find or meet, Myers.
Did you see the news of the random church shooting of the church pastor with a .45 in St. Louis? I’m sure you and your ilk celebrated. It’s funny how these things just happen out of the blue.
I certainly hope none of you are signing him up for pornographic email. That would be foolish to do, even if he were a Christian — they love getting that stuff for a little vicarious peek, or at the very least, to fuel their outrage. Knock it off.
If he isn’t a Christian, there is one thing he definitely is: a hater. He looks like a world-class expert bigot.
I know nothing of any church shooting, but if it happened, I deplore it — I don’t care who the target is, violence is not the answer. That’s something Mr Baker cannot understand.
Is it actually possible to be more stupid than Ray Comfort and still be capable of writing?
How could anyone read such an eloquent and thoughtful email and think its author was “an idiot and stupid”? James Baker sure showed you, PZ!
James, go learn what a banana really is. Then stick one up yer arse and compress it into a diamond, ya fuckwit.
Oh he does, does he?
He’s gonna have to pry off your long thermal underwear before he can make good on his threat.
Sorry, I just have to echo that – James, if you really do believe exactly as Ray Comfort believes, you are an idiot and stupid. Unbelievably so. This is underlined by the fact you think argumentum ad baculum is a valid way of offering your arguments.
Isn’t Mr Bakker’s demonstration of Christian love and forgiveness so wonderful?
And it is only his christian piety that keeps James M. Baker from acting upon his murderous impulse. Truly a prince among men, a pillar of his community. But the pillar is tilted.
He called you a pinhead. Aww. Now we know where his radio dial is set.
James Baker makes Happy Monkey cry.
Another well read individual of WingNutDaily I see.
Wow, one can just feel the intelligence dripping from that e-mail. It must have dripped off in transit. By the time it arrived, not much intelligence left.
“Then explain, if you would professor, why horses… beavers, cats, human beings and rats also evolved with a female, at some point of time in evolutionary history.”
I think that really says it all.
Ahh, this is precisely why I hang out around here. Every once in a while I think to myself “Boy, I could sure go for some stupid.” Now, obviously, I could probably just go get some regular ole 85 octane stupid. You know, flip on Fox News or go read the Worldnetdaily.
But you, PZ, you’ve always got the good stuff; this was 90 octane stupid. Not quite racing grade, but damn if it won’t drive my stupidmobile.
He’s an idiot and stupid, but even better, he’s violent and speaks contrary to Christ’s teachings.
Sort of makes you feel all moist and Pillsbury-like toward religion, doesn’t it?
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
The pillar is not tilted, Strumpet: it was crooked to begin with.
At that link, regarding Crackergate, they quote PZ as saying this:
Hmmm, I was unaware PZ ever said he’d post pictures of it on the University of Minnesota webpage. Oh, that’s right…he didn’t.
I really hope that man doesn’t have children, I can’t imagine how damaged they’d be growing up with a person who is capable of even imagining, let alone threatening such violence.
Yes James M Baker, you ARE an idiot and a very, very stupid man.
See, swearing and using dirty words is all those sin-loving atheists got.
No, wait, that isn’t right…
Ah, it’s the Devil made him do it. Because the Devil loves to enter True Christians, it’s the greatest reward he has, making them send hate mail to bloggers.
#13 is why i use hyperwords as an addon for firefox.
why Wien is discussing the loan rate discrepancies between Austria and Germany is puzzling, though.
Hey, he didn’t sign it “respectfully” or “god loves you” or anything like that. He must not be one of those real christians I keep hearing about.
The article on Wing Nut Daily
Glen D
Posted by: BaldySlaphead | March 8, 2009 3:58 PM
Unfortunately, literacy and pure idiocy are not mutually exclusive. Oh, what a wonderful world it would be if they were!
*sigh*
They’re just never gonna stop, are they?
You know that anything that starts out that way is most likely gonna end in a blithering, spittle-flecked diatribe. James doesn’t disappoint.
Hey James, guess what? I’m calling you an idiot and stupid.
You’re also probably a jerk; a complete knee biter.
Can’t you just feel the Christian love? So stupid they don’t even see their own hypocrisy. I may have to write him a note and tell him how proud I am of him for his Christlike behaviour and turning the other cheek.
What a fucking asshole.
This whole male/female evolution thingy is so mind numbingly idiotic that I just sit back in a stunned silence and ask myself “Are they really that fucking stupid? They just cannot be that stupid!”.
But it seems that they are. I am beginning to think it is unwise to even try and debate these people anymore. Focus on the mildly religious (who really don’t give the whole thing a lot of thought) and let the idiot-crowd talk to themselves.
We should still confront them at the polls, the court, and in the legislature. But we should just make it clear that their positions are so beyond the pale (i.e., really, really stupid) that they are not worth commenting on.
ok, now my post looks ridiculous. I swear, when I posted it, #13 was a post in german discussing loan rate discrepancies between Austria and Germany.
Anger mgmt Mr. Baker.
Ray needs proof for evolution, but no one needs proof for invisible sky daddies. Is that the crux of his argument? Mounds of actual evidence versus absolutely no evidence?
@brokenSoldier
Hey there, Airborne. Where you been?
I liked James Baker better when he was George W. H. Bush’s secretary of state. He wasn’t so hung-up on religion back then.
And he really did not even attempt to give any reason to do otherwise. Rather the opposite. Go figure.
I saw the Wing Nut Daily article over on Ed Brayton’s blog. How many times can you explain something to Ray Comfort without him getting it? (hint: It’s the same answer to the question “How many stones can you drop into a bottomless pit before filling it?”)
Hey! He didn’t even offer to pray for your immortal soul (otherwise known as, “my invisible friend is going to torture you for all eternity and let me watch”).
Comfort really is stupid:
My god, he just can’t quite fathom the notion that males and females evolved in the same population. Does he somehow fail to recognize that males and females are changing all of the time, and that there is no incompatibility within the population (or if there is, that individual leaves no descendents)?
That might be the problem, even though he claims to have gotten past the “mutant that can’t interbreed” issue. He seems to go right back to that “problem,” although it’s not clear exactly what all he’s missing.
And yes, everything he writes about it makes him look stupid.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
What is it with these types and their focus on people’s assholes?
Oh and James, you are and idiot and stupid among other things.
Birthday present?
Another crack-kid?
Ed Brayton has already commented on the WingNut’s Delusion article, but I must confess I failed to put two and too twogether properly…
Well, no, it’s so mindless even a creationist can understand it.
You don’t need an explanation for Daddy, he just always existed as long as the cretin has been alive.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
Um, Mr Comfort! ‘Arms waving’ Mr Comfort. I have a question to ask. Just how were all of the species able procreate until a mutant male and a mutant female of the same species got around to mating.
That WorldNetDaily has to be an embarrassment for the intelligent conservative who values facts and research.
Looks like PZ’s not the first blogger to highlight one of this guy’s violent rants. From here: http://www.mattbors.com/2009/01/mailbag-douchebag-thats-how-i-feel.html
That’s gotta be the same James M. Baker from Indianapolis, don’t you think? (Shit, I hope so!)
A science breakthrough! Can’t you see?
We’ve learned to clone stupidity!
James Baker thinks like Ray, a bit;
His thoughts are cloned from Comfort’s shit!
The Pinhead Genome Product must
Be doing very well, I trust,
For such success to come to light
(and look! The clone can even write!)
Now Comfort needn’t feel alone–
He’ll always have his stupid clone.
James and Ray, stop. Seriously, you’re embarrassing me. Actually my Father (who is also myself) and I are embarrassed for you. Stop making us look like retards.
PZ, keep up the good work!
Signed,
Baby Jesus
“Sinful delicacies” is great. And he hasn’t even had my spinach, gorzonzola, and walnut sauce…
Rev, could it be that they have shit for brains?
It appears you have violated his ‘comfort’ zone PZ.
Ray Comfort + chickens… hey now, thems fighten wurds.
Did PZ actually put the UoM Morris site (rather than Pharyngula) in that quotation about the cracker? In the WorldNet story they have it in quotes.
“[…] all photographed and presented here on the http://www.morris.umn.edu/index.php.”
Yeah, RBDC, I was wondering about that too.
“tightly-puckered”? Really? Isn’t that a good thing?
Oh well. Maybe that’s another one of those things that Ray Comfort believes that this guy feels compelled to copy. Exactly, no less.
Looks like James cannot handle the truth, or has some insecurity issues. Yes, James is indeed an idiot.
@43: Cuttlefish, OM
Level 21+ win! (D&D 3.5 Joke. Move along, people.)
Brokensoldier! Nice to see you back.
Wow. Just–wow.
And there goes another irony meter.
I don’t understand how, since Ray makes the claim that “creation is evidence of a creator for every sane person,” he doesn’t see that the creator then needs an explanation or creator of its own, and so on and so on. Why can he not see his “explanation” explains nothing? It’s so frustrating and disheartening. People like Ray make me never want to bring children into this world.
When I went to the website I got a kick out of the ad for the magic patch that rids the body of toxins overnight
@DanB:
No, he didn’t, as I mentioned above. Here’s the original Crackergate post: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/its_a_goddamned_cracker.php#more
Leave it to WingNutDaily to misquote and lie.
Every time I see that ‘HOW DID TEH WIMMIM EVOLVE LOL?!!11!’ question I’m sure I lose a few points of my IQ. Ray must be a proponent of stork theory, anyone so ignorant of basic sexual reproduction must be. Is he unaware that Men are XY, and Women XX? Doesn’t he even think that maybe, you know, if the X part of the man mutated it might get passed onto female descendants, or maybe the women’s X mutated first… No wait stop there – NO he doesn’t think, and now my head hurts.
I’m very disappointed he didn’t sign off “sincerely” or “kind regards”.
SC, OM – Did you ever post that recipe or is it a secret?
Josh@54, please, please, please, tell me you made that up! That beats Orac’s recent example by several parsecs.
Oh Gee. Does this mean fundie xianity is a religion of peace, love, and tolerance and jesus loves everyone?
I missed the parts in the bible where one is supposed to mutilate other people while they are living. At least cannibals kill their dinner before cooking it.
A copy of an email I’ve just sent Mr Baker.
Hey Baker you queeftard.
I saw your fucknut of an email to PZ Myers and I got the idea that this is the kind of fucking lanaguage you like to correspond in.
Did you search in your purse and find your balls before you made the threat to PZ ?
What fucking age are you shitdick, if you’re still making threats of violence to grown adults.
Who but a fucking retarded gibbon thinks that threatening people is any way for a fucking adult to behave?
Why don’t you go and fuck a close relative, then you can make a baby the way your parents made you.
In closing.
Fuck you.
Fuck you very much.
Kind loving regards.
Cruithne.
Dear Mister Baker,
Without a doubt you are a perfect illustration of Christian love and charity. Did not Jesus include savage beatings and mutilation in his beatitudes?
He didn’t? Then no doubt Jesus and his damned liberality must be exterminated as your confrere, the other James M. Baker of Indianapolis, has suggested.
– lee
He does his branch of the armed services no favors, that’s for sure, pointing out in his e-mail address that he’s a US Navy Veteran.
I saw your criticism of Ray Comfort on Worldnetdaily.com. I believe exactly as Ray Comfort believes and when you call him an idiot and stupid, you’re calling me an idiot and stupid.
Exactly.
Didn’t you know? There are people all over who think all Americans should be free…to do exactly as they say.
I suspect that James M. Baker may not be an idiot and stupid, but only a total ignoramus. Being a total ignoramus becomes being an idiot and stupid only when you claim that your ignorance is great wisdom.
*shakes head sadly*
usnvet@comcast.net??? usnvet@comcast.net???
Oh, crap. I’m a US Navy veteran, myself.
Does anybody know if it’s possible to get yourself excommunicated as a US military vet, like you can from the Catholic church?
I’m going to need to look into that.
Dang… when I was in the Navy, I don’t recollect meeting anybody who was that dumb.
Baker besides being fruitbat crazy, is also cosmically stupid.
It is a felony to send death threats over the internet or other means of interstate communication.
This is one that Homeland Security or the FBI will enforce. There are plenty of people in prison for doing what James M. Baker of Indianapolis just did.
It’s not called WorldNutdaily for nothing.
How can he be sure of that? Oh, yeah, he believes that he believes exactly as Ray Comfort believes.
Doesn’t he wonder why he believes exactly as Ray Comfort believes? Like maybe Ray has taken over his brain or something?
The issue, of course, is belief. When someone starts flailing about what they believe, you know they aren’t going to show evidence, or expect you to ever understand or agree. They think that you believe something different, not realizing just how different you are without belief.
Screaming about one’s belief is so damn childish. The only possible response to such a person is to say, “I believe differently.” Except they want to kill anyone who believes differently.
Well technically, he said he’d like to not that he was going to.
I sent the following letter to the Editor of WingNutDaily,
(and I was not at all rude about Ray Comfort):
Ray Comfort asks, “Let’s go back even further (100 million years ago) to pre-pre-elephants that also contained males and females. At what point of time in evolutionary history did the female evolve alongside the male? And why did she evolve? Then explain, if you would professor, why horses, giraffes, cattle, zebras, leopards, primates, antelopes, pigs, dogs, sheep, fish, goats, mice, squirrels, whales, chickens, dinosaurs, beavers, cats, human beings and rats also evolved with a female, at some point of time in evolutionary history.”
Well, if the Bananaman thought that bananas are evidence for a creating god, than I guess he could be stupid enough to ask such a stupid question.
The answer is that when sex evolved, it necessarily involved a male and a female, and males and females have been with us ever since. All sexually reproducing organisms derive from a common ancestor which was a single celled eukaryotic species. This was a very, very, long time before dinosaurs.
This really is very simple. Ray Comfort is an imbecile.
Regards, Richard Harris.
He’s exactly like Comfort except he swears.
Which means if you trip him, you could be arrested for making an obscene clone fall.
/rimshot
I wonder what these nutcases think of people like me, who haven’t live States-side for over 20 years, and/or are now living in France, and/or are dual nationals? Not to mention non–religious, educated (and in, gasp, science), with no hangups about teh gay, muslims, et cetera et cetera…? And worse of all, I like Terry Pratchett.
Newfie #4: “James, go learn what a banana really is. Then stick one up yer arse […]”
Well, of course James will be doing that – I mean, isn’t it an implicit entailment of Comfort’s banana argument that this is one of the designated purposes of bananas? How else would you, following Comforts line of reasoning, explain the difference in design between a banana and, say, a pineapple?
Writing as a US Navy veteran, I must apologize for James M. Baker’s lack of couth. Not all of us are assholes, just Jimmy and me.
But… his mail came from Comcast in Emeryville, which is what I had when I lived in Berkeley. Not quite fundie central USA.
DuckPhup @70,
I’m a marine vet, so don’t feel bad. I say we try to get Mr. Baker excommunicated instead ;).
so an anonymous commenter over at advance indiana said that “Laura McPhee wrote something in Nuvo today that credits both [Gary Welsh] and Bil Browning for the Eric Miller stuff”. since i was one of the bloggers who criticized mcphee last week for her lack of citation, i wanted to read it, so i headed over to the nuvo site to find it (it’s here).
but while over there, i couldn’t help but notice this letter to the editor:
I read your write-up of the Ten Commandments-hating, fag-loving promoter, Anita Bowser (shit be upon her) (News, “Remembering Our Favorite Rabble-Rousers,” March 7-14). She may have been nice, personable, whatever. She was a servant of Satan and I have no room for pity on her soul. No doubt, she is currently roasting in the Abyss of Eternal Damnation where she rightfully belongs!
She was a clueless demagogue spreading disinformation through her tenure as a professor, to inculcate (READ: brainwash) students into pro-fag, anti-American, anti-Christian philosophy.
I’d personally like to urinate on her grave, and while I’m at it, in your face!
James M. Baker
Indianapolis
Link: http://www.animalswithinanimals.com/stallio/2007_03_01_archive.html
No, it’s not at all a secret! If I don’t have a chance to post it today, please remind me later. It’s very simple.
Dear Mr Baker,
Please be advised you are a lot more idiotic than Mr Comfort. At least he doesn’t violate the federal law as he spews his anti-science rubbish. If I were PZ, I would report your email to the FBI.
If you have any questions or concerns about my post, you are welcome to sit on my middle finger and swivel.
Yours respectfully,
Insightful Ape
“Isn’t Mr Bakker’s demonstration of Christian love and forgiveness so wonderful?”
I was going to say.
Who would expect literal interpretation of a book full of contradictions to create hypocrites? If his imaginary god existed, the sadistic tyrant would be quite delighted with his ferocity!
The male/female thing simultaneously amused and enraged me when I read it previously. The fact that I must share the planet with such imbeciles does nothing for my stress levels.
#42
Wait! What about academic freedom? GOTCHA!
#70, #78
I missed that. Assuming he’s really a USN vet, that’s by far the most offensive aspect of this letter.
Ah, so old James is a card-carrying, sloganeering member of the Westboro Baptist Cult… Why didn’t I think of that? Shame I like women so much; I’d love to piss them off even more.
Loving Christians!
Raven@71 makes a good point. There’s a fair chance that emailers like this James M. Baker aren’t merely ignorant and nasty, but also mentally ill. Who knows how motivated a nut like this might be to act on his impulses. In isolation I probably wouldn’t be inclined to give it mush thought, but the guy obviously has a history of expressing his violent fantasies over the internet. It’s fine to laugh at this email, but it also probably should be reported to somebody in authority.
Keep your vet status, duckphup. You earned it and continue to do honour to your service by acting rationally. Our corresponent James Baker was probably stuck on a concrete ship for a single tour, failing to pick up chicks in his uniform because he came across as such an arsehole.
#88
“it also probably should be reported to somebody in authority.”
Yes. But unfortunately views like his are still allowed (or actively encouraged as ballast for cynical politicians). Freedom of speech? Sure, until you become that much of a raving tool.
Ichthyic @ 27,
Sure it was and I suppose it just magically turned into a post about beavers or something, right? ;-)
James M. Baker
LOL, Mr Baker is George Liquor, a character from the Ren and Stimpy show.
From the Wikipedia page:
Wow! I just read Ray Comfort’s response to you on WorldNetDaily and now I’m curled up in a ball under my kitchen table, bleeding from both ears.
Now,now. Let’s give Mr. Baker some credit.
This is an actual use of empirical evidence and logic. He objectively observed Ray’s writing, concluded that he agreed with them, and then logically deduced that if PZ’s opinions were consistent, he would be considered an idiot and stupid.
He’s correct on several levels.
I was under the impression that you decided to no longer post e-mail addresses.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/stop_it_now_please.php
Am I mistaken about something?
He forgot the ‘cordially’ part.
Lee Brimmicombe-Wood @ #64:
Well, not in exactly so many words–but in effect, yes:
Now, those aren’t the precise lines that Christians have plucked out of the Sermon on the Mount and declared “Beatitudes,” but they’re in the same speech, and they contemplate doing something to nonbelievers that looks a lot like what Mr. Baker wants to do to P.Z.
The Gospels’ Jesus screeches this “Disagree with me, and youse gonna BURN!” stuff a whole lot–far more frequently, one might note, than he does any kind of nice “love thy neighbor” or Golden Rule-ish material. So I’ve never understood where nonbelievers get the idea that Jesus was a swell guy. On the text of the Bible, it sure doesn’t look like it.
@63 Cruithne, I think you might be more idiotic than Comfort and Baker combined.
Dear Mr. Baker,
You wrote this: “I’d like nothing more than to break every tooth out of your head, one by one; then poke your fucking eyeballs out and shove them straight-up your tightly-puckered asshole.Go fuck yourself, pinhead jerk. ”
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Or pray to your god with it? Does your god know you like to threaten people with physical violence and use naughty words? For shame. I don’t think he’s very proud of you. I doubt your mother would be, either.
The scariest idea of all is that this guy probably has guns.
Lots of them.
PZ, I agree that reporting this guy might be a good idea.
He seems at a point where he’s so obsessed with his hate that he’s starting to make very stupid mistakes (like threatening violence) and could cross some lines, very soon. What is it the criminal psychologists call that? Disassembling?
He’s crossed a very real line, and should be reported. The only difference between a threat of extreme violence over the phone, and by email, is that the perpetrator in the latter case thinks he or she is anonymous.
“I’d like nothing more than to break every tooth out of your head, one by one; then poke your fucking eyeballs out and shove them straight-up your tightly-puckered asshole.”
What is with Cartholics and buggery? Why would he even think of a “tightly-puckered asshole”? Wouldn’t a loose asshole be easier to handle?
Yes, you are mistaken. There is a grey box right above the scarlet A, copied in the quote box.
Tsk tsk tsk … I must ask you to forgive me, Dr. Myers. You see, when I created Comfort, I neglected the quality of the earth I formed him from; turns out it was from underneath a landfill where gulls would shit all day.
I created Comfort to try and experiment with how low (or high?) human stupidity could go; it seems Darwinian Evolution (Devolution?) already created someone even stupidier, in the form of this … um … *rifles through annexes* Mr. James M. Baker here. Dammit, I hate it when Darwin outdoes me, he does it all the time these days. I’ll have to dip his hand in warm water again. *cackle*
I really could’ve spared those neurons wasted on Comfort; I would’ve imparted them unto you, good man, to make you intelligent and powerful enough to concoct a plan, similar to your Operation Whirling Squid, that would land you in the center of a squid-shaped galaxy. Ah well, I screwed up. Please forgive me.
Your Holy Master,
— God
I’ve said it before — Ray’s banana is good example of why there is sex:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2009/03/pretending-to-think-like-ray-comfort.html
It’s pretty useless to argue with Ray. He doesn’t really listen. But, I wonder if World Nut Daily would publish an article by PZ that explained the evolution of sex? If they reject it, PZ could put it up here and show everyone what they reject.
What a kind, loving, Christ-following man. Good lord. I’m surprised that he & other wingnuts haven’t yet exploded from their anger and hypocrisy.
Yes. Rather prominently displayed, in the left-hand column, just below the mini-bio and above the atheist A, is this warning:
Now THAT is one creative signoff. I got bored of “Best regards” and “Yours sincerely”.
They call it escalating. It is a bad sign.
There are so many James Baker nuts out there that the cops can’t keep track of all of them. One thing they look for is “escalation”. If someone has a history of irrational behavior and it is rapidly worsening, this increases the chances that they will snap and go on a shooting rampage.
Where I live, some guy exhibited such a pattern. The cops put his name in a database for firearms purchase checks. They picked him up at a gun point of sale after he threatened to shoot up a college and while he was buying a semiautomatic rifle. Oops!!!
Um..Vox Day just tried to burn you, but you guys can handle it for sure.
“No wonder the Pharyngulan crowd tends to be so bitter and nasty. Over-degreed, unemployable, and angry is no way to go through life. And it’s not exactly hard to figure out why they so often bang on about the desperate need for more government funding for scientists science. The truth is that very few scientists produce anything of value and the university degree bubble means there are far more science-credentialed individuals than are required by the American economy.”
So what have y’all produced, latele?
Isn’t it illegal to send threats over email? At what point can worldnetnews be accused of encouraging terrorism?
Mr. Bakers eloquent rebuttal of PZ’s claims has won me over. I’m headed over to the closest church I can find to become officially “born again”. When Jesus returns tomorrow, I’ll be ready!
You pathetic losers will burn forever in agony and god and I will point and laugh througout eternity.
Suckers!
And he hasn’t even had my spinach, gorzonzola, and walnut sauce… – SC, OM
I can practically taste it already!
I am afraid to say that this guy is probably right. Evolution can’t be a true theory but a pile of falsehoods. The genes this guy and his loving mentor Cumfart share are so obviously deleterious that evolution could have never preserved them. (Who, I ask, could be able to fuck them?)
@95
He said he was going to rethink the policy, he did not commit to changing his policy.
There should be a Fox special “When Fundies Attack!!!”
“usnvet”? Maybe someone should tell him that this kind of conduct isn’t becoming a gentleman.
But then, who knows how he was discharged. :P
*100
Methinks he already has…that is one seriously deranged bunny!
Seems the creotards have an excess of enthusiastic wackaloons at boiling point recently…maybe they might oblige by imploding publicly…it would be the Christian thing to do…which probably means they won’t do it!
Well, don’t worry PZ. If he breaks your teeth out one by one he still won’t be able to comprehend hydroxyapatite.
@Jeremiah #98
Don’t be silly, I’m just having sport.
James set the terms and tone of the engagement, I’m just giving it back a little.
He’s already emailed back demanding that we meet to measure dicks.
Wait till he hears I’m posting from Paris, France, that’ll really blow a fuse somehwere.
Vox Day is never right but he is consistently wrong. We scientists created a 21st century quite a bit different from the 11th century. US lifespans have increased 30 years in the last century. We feed 6.7 billion people. The USA lead in science and technology explains why the US is the last superpower and the leading economy in the world.
So what have the fundies produced? Vox Day, a mentally ill idiot who will probably shoot up a mall someday. George Bush and Cheney. A US and world economy sinking into a depression. Piles of dead bodies in Iraq for no good reason. Wastelands full of social problems known as the DFN in the USA.
Obligatory request that science-hating fucktards like the typical WingNut Dullards, cease using cars, phones, guns, medicine, and–oh yeah–computers, since all of those things exist thanks to science.
Be consistent, you dorks.
WWJD?
My number of degrees is acceptable to both me and my employer, so the first part disappears. In the past 32 years I’ve never gone a day without employment at a supervisory or managerial level, so the second part isn’t true either. I’m not angry, but I do get annoyed when confronted with correctable stupidity.
Half a point out of three.
Anyone who has their e-mail address on a web page is going to get porn solicitations in the absence of industrial-strength countermeasures. Whining about the same unsolicited mail that most everybody else gets is just another part of their world-must-be-coming-to-an-end because I’m-seeing-bad-things-on-the-net schtick. snore.
Church shooting: go here
No, I didn’t celebrate; I found it sickening.
So he said he believes exactly as Comfort believes, but he also says he didn’t say he was christian.
Odd…
Comfort … doesn’t make graphic, violent threats.
Or maybe it just hadn’t occurred to him … yet.
Cruithne@120, I doubt this sorry excuse for a failed slimemold has even heard of Paris, much less France. To really wind it up, I suppose I should e-mail him as well… I’m posting from southern France. (Why do I smell a rant about cheese eating surrender monkeys and freedom fries and mooslin terrorists in commie Europe as it’s response?) Ah feck it, I should be going to bed (it’s just gone 23h00), it can wind itself up…
They picked him up at a gun point of sale after he threatened to shoot up a college and while he was buying a semiautomatic rifle. Oops!!!
Oopsie for him, maybe, but definitely not for his potential victims. What kind of institution did the guy wind up in, if any?
Vox Day ejaculated:
Project much?
Actually, speaking just for myself, I’m under-degreed, because I’ve spent too long on the fringes of academia, learning and doing research but not pushing for new pieces of paper. I am, fortunately, still employed, and in my personal life, I’m generally affable.
Hmm, could it be because advances which benefit the public are not always favourable to third-quarter profits and the corporate bottom line?
And, of course, the American economy never fucks up.
I’m inspired to haiku:
Comfort, his hero.
James M. Baker must want some
Of his banana
Hey guys.. I thought I had seen my share of stupid website before, but WorldNutDaily is beyond anything I ever saw! OMG! Look at this: Famed Pastor predicts catastrophe for the world centered in NYC. ROFL!!! http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91097
Over-degreed, unemployable, and angry
One out of three here. Don’t strictly need my doctorate, but almost everyone at my grade at my workplace has one. Continuously employed since 1992. Angry – sure I’m angry, when I behold the greed and/or stupidity of the right – particularly the religious right, neocons and “libertarians” – as they do their best to fuck up the world in their respective ways. I don’t, however, want to inflict violence on them.
You mean there is someone who hasn’t heard of WingNuts Deluded? It, like conservapædia, is a classic source of comic gold fairy dust.
However, do turn off, remove, and pack safely away your irony meters before visting either site. For safely, I suggest wearing lead-lined stoopidity-proof suites, and use a computer equipped with an emergency intertubes cutoff switch, a backup emergency intertubes cutoff switch, a head-proof desk, a shower, extra soap, a spare bar of soap, and an empty stomach.
I don’t know too many more details. In this state, they can put you in a locked psych ward for a few days for evaluation which is what they probably did to this guy.
There is little doubt that something drastic was about to happen. Apparently more than one person reported him to the cops as a potential shooter.
OT. Yeah, there was another church shooting near St. Louis, MO. No details yet on motive. Most of these church shootings are internal disputes that escalate. The one at the Unitarian church in Kentucky or Tennessee was some kook who “hated liberals.”
I heard about that church shooting. Horrific. I’d bet dollars to donuts that the shooter turns out to be another professing Godbot, just like the last Church murderer.
It infuriates me to the point of wanting to KICK things that Ray Comfort is constantly reinforcing in his idiot masses this ridiculous idea that creatures were male only for however number of years and that the chick-folk just magically popped into being for every species. That whatever was there before was “male”. Because he’s a sexist lunatic.
There’s no such thing as a male anything without a female concept to define it in context, and vice-versa. I’m not a scientist; I’m an artist, a right-brained person, and even *I* figured this out early. When will he stop wasting people’s grey matter with these ignorant ideas?
I’m pretty Adam’s original condition – alone – had something to do with Comfort’s inability to grasp this. The Lord saw “that it was not good for the man to be alone”, so He made a helper suitable to him; a woman.
Would Comfort speculate if Adam only grew a penis while he was asleep and Eve was being fabricated from his rib? What did Internet porn look like before Eve came along, and before there were any other people?
Feck! I need to go to bed. “Suit”, not “suites”. Having shot off all fingers due to other typos earlier in the day, now shoots off——
You’ve got to love WorldNeanDerthaly.
Church shooting today. Tragic! I feel strongly with those who lost their people and the poor desperate guy who’s mind went bananas. Wonder how!
GBJ inspires me!!
The banana of
Ray Cumfart enjoys his hand
and its hairy palm.
Not sure if it’s such a good idea to bait a guy like this. He has more than anger issues; he sounds as though he may have mental health issues.
Ollie – Wow, that’s my aunt’s church. I had no idea the news would get as far as the BBC. She was out of town this weekend, so wasn’t there (thankfully), but I’ve been reading news updates on Facebook from hometown friends all day.
In case it hasn’t been noted, and with no trace of sympathy for violent morons, PZ, you are the one who signed up this poor fool for pornographic emails. Whenever anyones email address is posted on the interwebs, it becomes a spam target, and porno doesn’t discriminate.
Let me just say that as a real-world test, this circumstance leaves me strongly supporting your ‘gray box policy’, Dr. Myers. Huzzah!
Muffin #117
Quite likely Jimmy was enlisted. Only officers are expected to be gentlemen (or ladies, as the case may be).
Very sad news about the church shooting. But I bet some fundagelical nutcase will blame it on “Darwin” and “Darwinists” in 5… 4… 3… 2…
Yep, I wanted to point that out. It’s not surprising though since we already knew idiots liked O’Reilly and the ilk.
I’m glad that this pig-ignorant, ranting, violent moron has found this site now, so he can see how we can mock and ridicule him — mostly with humor.
Mr. Baker seems to fit pretty well the profile of the base of the Republican Party. Basest of the base.
Ray Comfort said: “Okay, I’ve got it,” Comfort continued. “Your belief is that species do not arise from single new mutant males that then have to find a corresponding mutant female…”
Yeah, nothing says “I’ve got it” quite like parroting back the exact words that were said to you. At least try to paraphrase so that we know you have the mental capacity of someone in middle school.
The issue, of course, is belief. When someone starts flailing about what they believe, you know they aren’t going to show evidence, or expect you to ever understand or agree. They think that you believe something different, not realizing just how different you are without belief.
From Dogma:
No comment.
Maryville is about 20 miles (30km) north-east of St Louis, in neighbouring Missouri.
BBC geography fail. No one ever knows anything about the midwest. *sigh*
If the self-proclaimed Voice of God believes we’re all Americans, he’s even dumber than I used to think.
Where are you exactly…?
I started a review thread of Comfort’s book on Amazon.ca. There is a “look inside” feature on the book, so you don’t have to buy it. You can see its stupidity for free, and feel justified in “planting” a review.
Canadians, go get ‘im!
Hey! What are you trying to say about the NCO corps? I mean…I mean…nahhh…you’re right.
Ray Comfort is one of those guys who says things that are so stupid that you can’t even use the same arguments as a poe.
James M Baker
[deleted — please don’t post home addresses here]
Definitely don’t send any junk mail to his house. Seriously. That would be very immature.
(from thar internet whitepages)
@blf #76
Are you saying that fundies have a problem with Terry Pratchett? Everything else can be forgiven but if they’re talking bad about TP it’s -ing time for some -ing violence.
PZ:
This is the second time that you’ve included a WND article about Comfort’s book without pointing out that WND publishes said book and doesn’t disclose this fact in the articles about said book.
Of course they have a vested interest in promoting the book and attacking their critics. But they just don’t make it clear to their readers of this interest.
Stanton #7, it’s ‘Baker’ not ‘Bakker’. Give me reading comprehension over Christian love anyday.
Cruithne #63, what do you want now, a high-five? And how old are you? 12?
And what is it with the people here writing mock letters to this Baker douche? Does his letter not speak volumes enough?
RT #127, well put. I wonder if people here actually read the e-mails they’re laughing at.
Oh crap! Apparently somebody at that church shooting deflected one of the bullets with a bible. I can see fundies salivating over this one already.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090308/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting
Does anyone else get a sense of a veiled threat from this?
He appears unhinged enough. :(
#159 et. al. All this piling on of the obviously mentally ill makes me uncomfortable. None of this will do any good, and isn’t doing good our goal? Even if we are slavering heathens and all. Just saying.
#163 The article linked claims the Bible only “deflected” the first round. (It likely only passed through). Not sure what conclusions the religious will draw from this. God gives up after the first shot?
is there an anniversary for the eucharist desecration… New Desecration of the Eucharist Day was just a thought… whatever, the date of the desecration… anyone? i’m not finding it.
This fellow probably sent you one… Steve Russo
Certain sections of the conservative movement have been trying to rebrand the USA as a “Judeo-Christian” country, so given that he shares conservative movement hates (and definitions) and he’s not a Christian (or an atheist as some libertarians are), I conclude that he’s most likely Jewish. Not that it matters.
I lived in Indianapolis for a while many years ago, and while much of the city is quite nice (Broad Ripple, David Letterman’s mother), it doesn’t surprise me at all that James lives there. If anyone for some reason wants to communicate with him, it might facilitate things if you speak a language he understands. You know, throw in some reference about Chevy small block 350’s, and cheap beer, and guns. If you want to allude casually to them goddamn liberal commies and fags ruining the country, and get a little choked up when you utter the name of Rush Limbaugh, that’s up to you, but you’ll probably have a friend for life.
Oh crap! Apparently somebody at that church shooting deflected one of the bullets with a bible. I can see fundies salivating over this one already.
It was inevitable after 2000 years that such a worthless tome would end up eventually being useful for something.
Let’s get the troops suited up with “Bible Armor” ™ ASAP!
The Bible–stopping bullets and reason for hundreds of years!
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/6mb592
MH @ #92
That’s exactly who I think about when I read these foaming at the mouth style letters. Imagine that letter vocalized and you can almost hear the volume and pitch increasing. Not to mention the spittle flying.
The navy has Petty Officers, not NCOs. BTW, petty means “small and insignificant.”
I would like an explanation of how one would fuck with the eyeballs. I’m not above a little experimentation, but this one is beyond my understanding. Is James M. Baker from Indianapolis, Indiana maybe one of those creatures with eyes on stalks?
A nice display of what the christian values(TM) are all about. Another proud day for Jesus to watch one of his loyal followers act in defense of the Lord’s word.
I would most certainly like to see this apparently criminal threat reported to the authorities. As a non-US citizen I don’t know if a crime must be reported by the victim or if the public prosecutor would start investigating if they are briefed on the issue.
PZ is wise to stress the importance of keeping a cold head and not fall to the same level of criminal intimidation on which the wing nuts operate. Me it known what kind of people these are and make it public. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Now that’s a very strange and twisted individual. I mean, he didn’t even wish you a happy birthday, PZ.
>>I hate fags, atheists, muslims, illegal aliens, anti-American malcontents such as pinheaded communist professors (that’s to say, 97.6% of them, including you), etc…. I’m the most absolute hate-filled mother fucker you’ll ever find or meet, Myers.
Robert Hanssen and James Baker, match made in heaven.
BCH
i very much agree with orac. Please take care, We need your voice too much.
‘Are you saying that fundies have a problem with Terry Pratchett? Everything else can be forgiven but if they’re talking bad about TP it’s -ing time for some -ing violence.’
Calm down, Mister Tulip.
Aquaria@100: “The scariest idea of all is that this guy probably has guns. Lots of them.”
Guns are not magic and they’re not evil, and – aside from the constant fiction made up about them – they’re absolutely not a problem until you ban them. Then, you obey the law and don’t have a gun, and the criminal doesn’t obey the law and does what he wants with you while you wait for police. If you could call them. And then they have no duty to you. See Warren v. DC.
Other examples abound. The operative syllable in the term, “self-defense” is “self”.
Mr Baker appears to be both idiotic and a jerk. I wouldn’t waste my time retaliating against him because he has done enough damage to his reputation by saying the awful things he has said. I hope he will seek counseling for his issues.
For the record, I just read about the shooting at the First Baptist Church in IL and I am appalled. My heartfelt sympathy goes to the entire congregation.
I wonder how many people like Baker have had a blood-pressure induced stroke or cerebral hemorrhage from reading the blogs ?
This guy might go over the top, or he might stroke out.
There’s an old saying that ignorance is curable by education, but stupidity isn’t. So, what about the willful ignorance of twits like Comfort and his pal Baker ?
Mr. Baker exhibits classic mid-western closet homosexuality.
Pz, it’s simply a modern wonder at work to read through your comments, where the best of the best on the internets at that whole logic and facts stuff regularly dismantles the deliberately obtuse, particularly those who are religiously insane. You get the best (cough) trolls! And your commenters skewer them so well…
Did you see the news of the random church shooting of the church pastor with a .45 in St. Louis? I’m sure you and your ilk celebrated. It’s funny how these things just happen out of the blue.
Isn’t it funny how Mr. Baker notices that shooting, but fails to find flaw in the Adkisson shooting of a liberal DFH church? I’m betting he lives within the shadow of that big a$$ cross in Indiana…
Posted by: Rien | March 8, 2009 4:58 PM
But… his mail came from Comcast in Emeryville, which is what I had when I lived in Berkeley. Not quite fundie central USA.
Look at that IP again – it’s Emeryville.ca.comcast. Right down the road from my home town (cough) of Woodslee (population – 250 when my family reunion’s in town. Salute!), Ontario, Canada. I was wondering how this bounced over to the Great White North before it got to PZ, and how it cleared customs so quickly without a passport.
Did somebody say haiku? Gesundheit!
Posted by: Josh | March 8, 2009 4:15 PM
*sigh*
They’re just never gonna stop, are they?
You’re also probably a jerk; a complete knee biter.
Slightly off-topic: IMHO it would be quite interesting to write software to utilize The Second Reincarnation of the Final Grandson of Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged properly and render a proper cherishing thought to our religious brethren when they express such un-christian thoughts of ultraviolence when confronted with their religious insanity. I think some Python injected into the code would dovetail nicely with Mr. Adams illicit offsring, and could possibly help evolve the next generation of time wasting computer web sites.
Oh – and, Mr. Baker, you’re an embryonically dog-hearted fart mcnugget. You comparatively roynish spectre!
I decided to write this guy. My original letter is as follows:
—————-
I’m writing this in response to your threatening letter to Dr. Paul Myers:
You’re exactly right. You are an idiot and stupid. especially regarding this:
Are you not aware that making threats like this is in violation of
federal law? For the state Indiana, I believe that would fall under Indiana Code 35-45-2-1, which qualifies as a Class A Misdemeanor (please note: I am not a lawyer.)
I hope you enjoy rotting in jail for the next year, you ignorant pig,
A Random Chimp.
—————-
Well, anyway, I got a reply… Enjoy.
Fail.
Baker is an idiot, and stupid.
As I think I’ve suggested before in similar circumstances, please report this to the police. He’s probably just a loudmouthed loser; but it won’t hurt to take sensible precautions if he’s something worse.
Did you ever think some of these nut jobs just might come after you, PZ? Some of these wackos seem to cross the line…
#186, did you actually get a response from this clown?
Well, something tells me…he indeed has never paid a nickel for education(his own).
That is why his English sucks. He has no idea of the concept of “crime”.
The above got away from me before I was finished…
I was about to add that I worry that some slack-jawed yokel has Dawkins in his telescopic sights now…
He’s been sending nasty letters for years now.. check this one out from 2 years ago.
Ray Comfort asks, “At what point of time in evolutionary history did the female evolve alongside the male? And why did she evolve?”
Ray Comfort’s head is stuck on biblical literalism mode: man (the male) came first, and then woman (the female). He can’t imagine any other way. Not only is he a banana brandishing loon, he’s also gynophobic.
(qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [76.96.30.16])
Message-ID: 49B40AE7.2010807@comcast.net
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 2009 13:13:59 -0500
From: “Baker, James M.” usnvet@comcast.net
This IP is tied to the Comcast Oakland/Emeryville California severs. Unless this clown spoofed his IP address, he is just another of California’s varied fruits and nuts. I would like to see the header from the second e-mail to see if it is the same address/series. The Message ID confirms the originating e-mail server is owned by Comcast.
He doesn’t impress me as being smart enough to spoof his address though. I would suspect that real lifing this asshole via IP to street address could yield more than you bargained for. The lights are on, but no one is home. Maybe the fundis have stolen his brain???
It would be better to let the FBI handle this as it is a clear case of communicating a threat via wire. It looks like another meltdown case.
Bring up a command prompt then
Enter “tracert 76.96.30.16” without the quotes – and hit enter. That will provide a name/IP number path through the net.
Ohhhh hell. He’s from my neck of the woods. Unfortunately, there’s an abundance of small-minded jackass around here, and they’re generally proud of their small-mindedness. Just ignore him; they hate nothing more than having their petty little threats ignored. It reminds them of how incredibly small they really are in the big scheme of things.
I hate fags, atheists, muslims, illegal aliens, anti-American malcontents…
Everything he said prior to “anti-American malcontents”, is completely anti-American. Guess the boy hates his country. And fails to grasp the notion of “irony”.
Then again, he may not be an anti-American, hate-filled, ignoramous. He may be, just like so many of our fellow citizens, addicted to attention at any cost. He certainly has received it and he might love it. Like the poor creatures who appear daily, for free, on the many “reality” shows, making complete fools of themselves and reveling in it.
I guess HMTL links are out of the question.. maybe this works?
http://www.animalswithinanimals.com/stallio/2007_03_01_archive.html
More on the Illinois shooter – according to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, he’s severely mentally ill and lives with his mother. No known connection to the church and no prior history of violence, but known for wandering the street yelling at people.
And conservatives wonder why it’s good for society to have universal health care.
Radwaste:
1) This is not a thread about gun control.
2) Even if it were, you and the board of the NRA are the only sentient beings in the entire universe who disapprove of keeping guns out of the hands of hate-filled crazies like this James Baker.
3) “Guns are absolutely not a problem until you ban them”??? That’s almost as loony as Baker’s screed. I hope you don’t have violent fantasies too.
@ jorge #194:
Actually that’s the IP address of his ISP’s mail server, I reckon. PZ must have snipped out his actual IP address.
@ Insightful Ape, 190
Yes, I actually received a response from this clown.
—————-
Here are the headers if anyone really cares:
There ya go. I wasn’t going to post anything, but that’d be his actual IP address, barring any tomfoolery.
That would put him in Shelbyville, Illinois, I guess. Also, because his local IP address ends in .101 he likely has two computers running in his home, or a computer and some other device (iphone, blackberry, etc.).
Also, his favorite color is periwinkle, his mother’s maiden name is Bouvier, and he collects antique toilet seats.
Indiana, sorry.
The rest is all true!
Carlie @ #154:
Maybe they’ve since edited, but it now says:
…which is correct.
PZ,
I think this is one of the times it would be worth thinking about better ways to discuss things with people we don’t agree with. It’s pretty clear to us that evolution is practically an established fact (even if some of the nuances remain areas of active study), and that it’s largely populist ignorance and faith that cause people to be hostile to it. However, if we want people to become better educated, we need to think about these barriers to good education and how we can move them out of the way. Science needs good “ambassadors” – if you cannot imagine a path for the people you’re talking to to come to your perspective given the way you’re expressing yourself, you need to reconsider how you’re expressing yourself.
As someone working in the sciences with a good education (not a professor, but someone who’s been a staff researcher under several of them), I understand that practically all of academia in most fields has a near-universal consensus on evolution, and a reasonably broad non-religious (occasionally anti-religious) bent. I share these things. That said, by being very careful in how I express myself with people who disagree with me (on evolution or atheism), I’ve been able to get people to begin to examine their perspectives and consider changing them. Avoiding or toning down “spit words” helps a lot – considering people to be “ignorant” rather than “stupid” helps, and toning it down further to “poorly-educated” helps more yet. It is possible and desirable to be committed to spreading education and atheism without being unable to talk productively with people who do not share our views.
@ Zaardvark, 202
Actually no, the .101 is irrelevant. The relevant part is the first two octets, 192.168. The IPv4 address block 192.168.*.* (subnet 255.255.255.0) is a Class C block reserved for private (local) networks.
So, because his IP is 192.168.1.101, it is likely he has multiple computers running in his home/where ever he sent it from.
Pat Gunn, you are another tone troll. We’ve had quite a few lately. Try Nisbet’s blog as he believes in nicey nicey. We are rude and crude on this blog. Since we won’t change, you need to change channels.
oh oh i want to do this one….
Pat,
you’re concern is noted troll, now go grab a hot cup of STFU and sit quietly in the corner.
Is this guy for real?
He claims that he believes “exactly as Ray Comfort believes” and then claims that he’s not a Christian and has no compunctions about looking at porn.
Ray Comfort, your place as World’s Stupidest Christian is in peril. I recommend you begin claiming that the moon landing was faked.
The 192.168.1.101 comes from the router DHCP programming that he is using on his cable/dsl modem (fairly common default address of modem DHCP programming). The address of the in residence modem (at this moment) is 67.177.100.132 or c-67-177-100-132.hsd1.in.comcast.net.
The 70.x.x.x address is the e-mail server located in Emeryville (Next to Oakland) CA.
Next figure out where the 67.177.100.132 is phycially located.
@ Random Chimp, 206
We agree! I’m not sure where you think we don’t, except that you rightly say “multiple”, instead of my “two”, because it could be any number of devices.
Either way, it’s definitely periwinkle. And we have too much time on our hands :).
Pat @205:
We’re not talking about an ignorant shmuck who’s really never bothered to research the subject, we’re talking about Ray Comfort (who’s written 60 books on his retarded theories) and a moron whose contribution to the discussion was a vocalization of a desire to punch PZ in the face.
These people a. do not deserve respect and b. will likely never change their minds.
Fist, thank you for your concern. It has been noted.
But I understand what you are saying. There is a time an place for different approaches to dealing with people who are creationists. Some are merely gravely misinformed and don’t know any better. For them i have pity and the desire to help educate them or at the least point out the fact that they have been done a disservice. That can be done respectfully and politely.
However, there are also ways to deal with people who are willfully ignorant and are hell bent on pushing that ignorance on others.
They are not the same tactics. One is a guiding hand and one is a hammer. It obvious that the willfully ignorant are choosing to remain that way and not matter what evidence you present them it is not going to change their view. It is then a responsibility to expose these people for what they are. Not really for their benefit but for the benefit of others who may be prone to falling for their dishonesty and anti-intellectualism.
Ridicule and shame are effective tools that are underutilized.
Pinkeman urge #162
Cruithne #63, what do you want now, a high-five? And how old are you? 12?
Actually I’m 44, and no I wasn’t looking for a high five, I thought it would be amusing for some to see the mail I sent him, and indeed some have responded that it was.
If anything, the emails I’m getting back from Mr Baker are more than sufficient reward.
By the way, good luck with having that pickle removed from your arse.
I’m not sure, actually yes I am sure, I’m not comfortable making light of the shooting today.
Despite all the harping on religion and religious folks that was someone’s loved one and barring any wild speculation, no one deserves that shit.
Yes my concern is noted. Fuck it. It’s a legitimate concern.
#203 67.177.100.132 or c-67-177-100-132.hsd1.in.comcast.net
Bingo…..
The modem is located in Shelbyville, Indiana – outside of Indianapolis on the Southeast side of town off of Interstate 74. Must be where all the psychotic rednecks hang out.
This guy must be one seriously dumb motherfucker to send a threat to PZ with his real IP/name/town (Indy) printed on it.
It is one of those cries for help from the seriously mentally ill where he needs the attention of authorities first, then the nice doctors in the white coats. Who knows, maybe just getting him back on his medication may correct the obvious issues. It looks like a good call that inpatient therapy will be needed though.
PZ, let the authorities handle this one. He is physically too close to you for my comfort at least.
Since he claims to be a vet, he can seek help at http://www.indianapolis.va.gov/
Richard L. Roudebush VAMC, Indianapolis, Indiana
VA Medical Center
1481 West 10th Street
Indianapolis, IN 46202
Phone: (317) 554-0000
Outside area code (317)
(888) 878-6889
There should be an inpatient psychiatry unit door with his name on the foam padding.
More on the Illinois Church shooting. The response of Illinois Baptist State Association (of which the late pastor Winters was an erstwhile president):
[via Yahoo News]
Really! I mean, really! Do these religious bastards have no compunction, or for that matter, shame?
#215
Good post.
I don’t mind insulting people in the same terms they like to use but when it comes to threats of violence, or taking pleasure in someone else’s loss and suffering, that’s some fucked up inhumane shit right there.
No matter which side we’re on, we’re all humans and deserving of a certain level of respect.
Arrrghh!! I have spent years in various bars trying to erase the scarring of Shelbyville, IN from my memory banks and here, in this bastion of rationality, I get to come face-to-face with the craziness and evil of that podunk little shit hole. Damn you!
I spent 6 years of my life trying to escape from there and can vouch that it is a breeding ground for the type of insanity that Mr. Baker presents.
If anything the Unitarians from the church shooting would be on “our” side. They are quite possibly the most liberal christian denomination in existence.
Baptist church this time. Different shooting. That one was a few months ago.
His use of the insult “apparatchik” suggests he’s read more widely than the average sociopath. Still an angry, impotent little tit though. He should channel some of that anger into tidying up his back garden. Looks in a shocking state on Google Earth…
I concur about the mental health issues, especially after the follow up email. As several other posters have already recommended, I do think PZ should take the precaution of contacting the authorities on this one.
As for ‘baiting’, I personally don’t think the original post (or follow-up) qualifies as such. I can see publishing such missives as potentially beneficial because they demolish the perceived anonymity of the sender. His name and intentions are hung out for all to see like a urine-soaked bedsheet, which could conceivably serve as a deterrent against further threats–or worse. Sidebar disclaimer notwithstanding, however, I’m not down with publishing the email/IP stuff, only because I personally find the signing up for porn, mass email rebuttal immature. More importantly, I worry that the attention this freak is now receiving from the Pharyngula hordes may just be enough to feed his warped sense of purpose and incite further, almost certainly unpleasant, action on his part. Brrrr. Be well, PZ.
Impotence? You’re soaking in it!
Heh heh…while I was posting comment #223, I received an email from 1-800-Flowers. Ah, memories :)
Keep in mind that this might be well thought out attempt to get us to attack an innocent person. It wouldn’t be that hard to send PZ an email posing as someone else, then lead the mob along by posting comments in this thread.
#226
Posted by: mllawso | March 9, 2009 12:37 AM
Keep in mind that this might be well thought out attempt to get us to attack an innocent person. It wouldn’t be that hard to send PZ an email posing as someone else, then lead the mob along by posting comments in this thread.
Why do you assume that anyone would attack this person? That just inflates his psychosis.
It is very hard to spoof an IP address on the e-mail. All the items fit together pretty well. The only issue may be the person’s name, but the modem/computer IS located in Shelbyville, IN. If you wanted the connection, the authorities can contact the ISP for all the information needed.
davem
On how many threads are you going to expose your insanity?
#227 Posted by: davem | March 9, 2009 12:38 AM http://www.rinf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18652#post18652 to see the open letter to Richard Dawkins and how we won the million dollar paranormal challenge…
Bye bye Dennis!
You mean the Million Dollar Challenge that is still on offer?
The one that is still live and will be for the next 2 years?
This one?
http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
So in your reality stopping something means having absolutely no affect
on it at all? That must make driving quite a fun experience.
Tell us, just how does it feel to be a totally powerless psychotic kOOk with
delusions of grandeur living off the government there in Montreal?
You really should use those medical benefits for something besides
treating that case of the clap you keep picking up.
Goodness, MENTAL HEALTH help does comes to mind as a good use for your
benefits.
This is just great. First I see this story over at Mike the Mad Biologist:
http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2009/03/shouldnt_that_be_judeo-christi.php
about some wackaloon in Western Maryland (where I grew up) selling “Christian” salt because he apparently has some beef with “kosher” salt. Nothing like parading your anti-semitism around for all to see.
Now I see that an even bigger nutjob is defaming the reputation of my current hometown (Indy). (He must think that signing his emails with “Shelbyville, Indiana” would make people think he’s just some small-town nut case. Oh, right – he is. Can’t expect him to be too up front with the truth, I guess.)
Are these imbeciles following me?
Pat Gunn @205: Concern Troll.
Pat, ridicule and anger have a time-honoured role in social change. You’re confusing what is effective (sometimes) in dealing with people one on one with what is effective in changing the social climate en masse.
In many cases people’s idiotic beliefs are too entrenched to be amenable to reason, evidence, or polite discussion. The only way to prod such a person into reconsidering their views is to convey to them that those views have made them a laughingstock and/or object of contempt.
Attitude change is not fundamentally a rational process.
You want to be a “good ambassador” – a nice guy in other words. That’s a valid and useful role and it obviously suits your personality better than snarkiness. But the snark brigade is not working at cross purposes to you. History strongly suggests that their role is essential in softening people up for your more polite form of persuasion. The good cop needs the bad cop for the routine to work.
Name one social change movement that succeeded through polite persuasion alone. What you’re comfortable with is not the measure of what works.
*giggles*
He spelled “Myers” instead of “Mayers” – I think they are evolving.
If this guy is from Shelbyville, I’m not surprised. I once got pulled over while driving through there and the policeman was honest enough to tell me he stopped me because I didn’t look like I belong there.
But there is really no escape from bigoted people. I now live in metro Indianapolis and we have a teen in our neighborhood harassing my family for a year now simply because he thinks I’m Muslim.
Rieux #97 — No. You’ve got it wrong, wrong, wrong. Jesus isn’t talking about Hell, which is an invention of the church. He used the word Gehenna, which was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem. No eternity. No everylasting damnation. Just a figure of speech not unlike that used by a late leader of the USSR at the U.N. — getting put into the garbage can of history. Putting yourself outside the pale, rendering yourself into sewage, getting thrown out with the trash. Common figure of speech at the time, closely associated with ceremonial and religious impurity, by the way.
And the rest has nothing to do with unbelievers. Jesus speaks to other Jews about putting sin away from themselves. He’s using rabbinical hyperbole, also a common figure of speech. Has nothing to do with anyone else. “Members” aren’t other people, they’re parts of your own body. And by the way, self-mutilation was itself a serious sin, so nobody was taking him literally.
There’re plenty of passages in the Bible to take exception to. This speech isn’t among them.
This man is brings shame upon all of Christianity. Mostly because it comes across a little bit homoerotic.
Leigh @234:
Different Christians, different interpretations.
About one thing I’m pretty sure, though: whatever the anointed one wanted, Xianity as it exists ain’t it.
JHS:
WTF??
John M: “About one thing I’m pretty sure, though: whatever the anointed one wanted, Xianity as it exists ain’t it.”
You’ve got that right, friend!
Hey PZ, he lives in my city. I could take hunt him down… Maybe see if he really likes the idea of eyeballs/teeth being shoved up his ass after having been through it personally.
#231, you’re probably right. Being in academia (a more standard academia than PZ, I think) may have pushed me towards a certain mode of expression that’s aimed at more of a careful, one-on-one rather than mass-broadcasting style. I wonder though – the ability of certain kinds of snarkiness to have good effects is easy to see – the Daily Show is a great counterbalance to conservative media. Maybe the higher snarkiness/bluntness of PZ and many of the people here are important to help us from losing spirit from the ignorance around us, even if they won’t reach new people?
rance @ 239,
this is not what we do.Not ever.
Pat @240, are you’re familiar with the concept of the Overton window?
I have no idea. But it wouldn’t surprise me. Discworld is full of magic and witches, multiple gods (including a god of—gasp!—evolution), and Terry did skewer religions rather well in Small Gods. That probably has them seeing in primary colours. (Only seven, however.) Plus the Science of the Discworld series (which, if I recall correctly, contains some good spearing of creationism) probably makes their little pointy heads explode. (And I think Terry’s an admitted atheist—he’s certainly very much a well-read rationalist with a fantastic imagination—which would probably puts him on the far side of the universe as far as fundies go.)
Speculating, I wouldn’t be surprised if Terry’s illness is seen as some sort of retribution from teh magic woman in the sky by the loonies?
Gee, what a nice guy. An absolute hate-filled mother fucker, but a nice guy.
Rance, please do not say such things, even in jest. We are not as they are: ignorant and violent men. We do not threaten. We do not fight except in self-defence.
Our function here is to point and laugh at the foolish. To debate with the honest seekers (who come here in small numbers). To engage in rude mockery of the dishonest (who are legion). Above all we maintain our humour, even in the face of vicious threats.
Please take back your words, rance. They are only ammunition for the Godly who will point and say that we are no better than their gangs of Bakerite thugs.
Happy 52nd birthday, PZ Myers.
…
Hi Pat,
Wow! I feel proud of myself. I confess that I had initially written a rather snarky response to you and gradually toned it down. Having Asperger’s syndrome, I’m often a poor judge of how I come across and can thus put people off even when I’m trying not to. So I’m glad I made the effort to make a better case to you and glad that it worked.
I think you’re right that an additional function of the sarcasm, self congratulation and so on engaged in by many Pharyngulites is to keep up our spirits. Fighting the good fight is draining work. Bonding and affirmation and letting off steam help. Pharyngula is largely a community of the choir.
Rance, bad idea.
Funny thing, while James M. Baker is the thug minded idiot sending a threat to PZ, the deluded and the liars will point at your comment and rejoice over the violent and immoral atheists.
Ray Comfort is a metabolic sac filled with stupid. That is all.
“Sign me up for porn sites. I end up going to them. I never said I was a Christian, as your emailing drone apparatchiks assume.”
Sounds like this guy needs to shoot off a few loads and get his frustration eased. the best way is to sign him up for porn, not indulge his gun waving idiocy.
#250 – Escuerd —
Ray may be a metabolic sac, but the fill is not with stupid. It has gone beyond stupid to the other vile, foul, and disgsting liquids which the body produces especially if the liquids have some time to “ferment” before use.
jorge, you mean like festering pus? :)
I was surpised by just checking around the state of Indiana where Shebyville is, and I’ll be darned if I don’t find lots of info on Nazis, Aryan Nation (I thought Nazism was fucked up until I ran into the American Nazi or Aryan Nation drones – true losers of the world). Reichwing christianity cults, Oral Robertsism, pentacosts, baptists, deluded methodists, disappointed angelicans etc. Whew! Had to drive through Kansas and Oklahoma not too long ago. The midwest wants make sure that every sign says that Jesus loves you. That’s OK, but everyone in the vehicle was something other than christian – jewish, agnostic, athiest, etc – they took our money though for food and gas. You know that green (greenbacks) is the true universal color of equality – along with a shitload of dimies.
a shitload of dimes – spelling thing – sorry
Jorge, for a moment there I thought you wrote Shelbyville!
Posted by: John Morales | March 9, 2009 5:00 AM jorge, you mean like festering pus? :)
Hey John,
As long as it is pus in that delightful bubbly stage were it is still giving off all those wonderful smelling gasses and priceless French Perfume odors.
Apparatchiks is a big word! I am impressed.
Waves to BrokenSoldier, long time no see, hope all is well with you, or at least as well as can be.
Leigh Williams #234, well stated. The fanatics are funny partly because they don’t know even the simplest tenets of their own religion. Not that accuracy matters though. It’s just tribalism in the end.
Writing from the save distance of the Netherlands where people aren’t murdered for expressing their views … oh, wait … wrong start.
Anyway, this Mr. Baker comes across as a seriously frustrated neo-nazi, one of those failures in the human production line who one day decide to exterminate their family and then empty a machine gun in their former office or high school.
I mean *safe* distance. Aargh.
Why do you comment on a thread if you haven’t read all of it?!?
Something like three people sent e-mail to that address, and they all got exactly the expected response. Science, you see — experiment.
At least he didn’t sign it: “Yours cordially” or something
That way you know he doesn’t really mean it. The fruitcakes only want to rip your head off when the missive ends “…and then I’m going to fuck your hollowed out rotting corpse on your mother’s grave. Yours sincerely in Christ, Reverend Arthur McDoodleplotser”
Then you know they be bringing Teh CrayZ.
Louis
Science needs good “ambassadors”
It has them already, including PZ.
It also has those who take the necessary step of ridiculing inane ideas, including PZ.
what? you can only wear one fucking hat?
John Morales, thanks for that clickable Overton Window–never had the time before to find out what that often mentioned reference means. It will come in handy in various discussions.
Baker: Did you see the news of the random church shooting of the church pastor with a .45 in St. Louis? I’m sure you and your ilk celebrated. It’s funny how these things just happen out of the blue.
___
Baker is sure that we would rejoice in such a tragedy because he knows he would rejoice in a comparable one involving atheists. And as an earlier commenter pointed out, his last sentence is a veiled threat. You got to wonder if anyone in his life is trying to get this guy therapeutic help? I certainly hope so.
Cruithne #63, I did laugh real hard at your email spraying my laugh spittle over my computer screen to the end of my office. And yes, dishing back the same approach can halt or slow your opponent down, but in this case, it is not worth the risk of escalating a fragile state of a diseased mind.
I wonder if I can address Mr Comfort’s objection simply enough that even Mr Baker can understand it…
Ahem:
Natural selection proceeds through many very small changes, such that no indiviual changes any more than a daughter is different from her mother is today. This means that at no point is any member of a population unable to mate with any member of the opposite sex from the same population.
Speciation occures when one population is isolated from another and advantageous or neutral mutations can no longer spread through both populations.
Over time, the genetic differences between the two populations become so great that they cannot interbreed, even if they could cross the barrier between them and we have a new species.
It’s clear from this Messrs Comfort & Baker, that it is populations that change, so that males and females of the new species evolve together. You never have the situation of a member of a new species arising without a mate and this is why Mr Comfort’s criticism is plain wrong.
I hope this helps.
I sent this email:
James, I read the email you sent to P.Z. Meyers.
Sir, you are clueless. It’s funny how it’s always the god fearing Christians who resort to violent threats. How un-Christ-like of you. Do you think Jesus (if he ever existed) would threaten to break someone’s teeth out of their head for any reason?
You should stop being such a jerk and start thinking for yourself a little. The world is an amazing place, and it becomes more amazing when you realize that it wasn’t snapped into existence by some god one day.
You’re an atheist too, remember that. You don’t believe in any of the other THOUSANDS of current or historical gods out there. Why stop at yours? Gods are mythology man, and you know it.
-C.
For good reason, apparently.
LOL, his response to my email:
“Go fuck yourself, Chuckie.”
Classy retort.
Oh, dear. He’s making us Hoosiers look bad…
James M. Baker says:
Now I didn’t actually visit this nasty christian site but, the search description states (livingwaters.com):
Mr. James M. Baker, is it a christian sin to deny your god-idea? However, it is common knowledge that christian morals include lying so maybe that is your way out.
Livingwaters?? Wow! You christians certainly have a strong hold on the irrational don’t you?
Ha ha! Wonder who’re the 2.4% of pinheaded communist professors that he doesn’t hate!
“I believe exactly as Ray Comfort believes and when you call him an idiot and stupid, you’re calling me an idiot and stupid.”
There we are. James M. Baker of Indianapolis, Indiana has absolutely no independent mind at all: he believes exactly as Ray Comfort believes. And whenevber anybody calls Ray Comfort “an idiot and stupid” James M. Baker of Indianapolis, Indiana takes PERSONAL offense, BECAUSE HE has so stupidly decided to cede his OWN beliefs over to another idiot.
This state of affairs bugs him so much that he cannot imagine any other way to react other than as a stupid idiot ordinarily would, and so he therefore suggests that,
“I’d like nothing more than to break every tooth out of your head, one by one; then poke your fucking eyeballs out and shove them straight-up your tightly-puckered asshole.”
This exceptionally graceful and god-fearing expression of moral virtue is followed up by, “Go fuck yourself, pinhead jerk.”
Now, we must ask ourselves: How in the FLAMING HELL can GOD FUCKING ALMIGHTY HISSELF view this as anything other than the ranting of a STUPID IDIOT? Surely HE would know, right?
Or would God be in complete agreement with these very moving sentiments?
On second thought, perhaps this one of the avenues by which stupid idiots think they will get by the Great Big Judgement before the Great And All-Powerful Oz: if one is sufficiently idiotic and stupid, surely, Oz, um, God will understand and save him from an eternity in flaming torment.
Therefore, the recipe seems to be this: even if you have the capacity for intelligence, the innate curiosity to learn and be something other than idiotic or stupid, it pays off to behave idiotically and stupidly since – as all stupid idiots know – God can be fooled.
James M. Baker of Indianapolis, Indiana has therefore got the goop on God, doesn’t he?
Somebody inform him of Poe’s paradox, I’m dieing of meh.
The pastor deflected a bullet with his Bible. If the godbots get snarky, tell them God punished him for defiling the Holy Bible.
“Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.” My ass.
[Cue concern trolls in 3.. 2.. 1.. ]
Under the Interstate Communications Act, it is a crime to transmit in interstate commerce any communication (e. g. , by telephone, email, or beeper) containing a threat to injure anyone (18 USC § 875(c)).
My advice: copy all his emails o the FBI
You’ve got the moral high ground but he really is stupid – you posted his full e-mail address on the ‘Net, which means both bots trawling websites for email addresses will pick it up and spam it, and so will vigilantes hoping to get a rise out of him
Next time – don’t give these morons a inch otherwise they’ll take a mile when you let their info get out.
I like how he uses “communist” as an insult… as if this were still the 1950’s.
Classic.
“You disagree with me? I break you face, you call me stupid! ARHG”
If anyone says something like this to you in person, just show them fire. It will blow there tiny minds long enough that they forget about beating credulousness into you.
Please can you differentiate between stupid and mentally ill. I am schizophrenic with bi polar disorder – and even though god talks to me, I am an Atheist (with a degree in astrophysics, but i am unemployable, though not angry, as lithuim does tone that down – unfortunately it also takes 30 points off the IQ, well in my case anyway)
Not all christians are mentally ill, but they are all deluded and afraid of facing the truth. Fear is the greatest motivator, as it does tend to make you and your place in the universe seem vanishingly small. Simple ego (developed by evolution) is astonishingly powerfull counterbalance too this – only atheists are human enough to counter this, while theists are still beholden to their animal insticts.
Subscribed him up for some very educational newsletters*.
* non-stop spam of anything but porn
I love the World Net Daily because it saves the time of giving anyone who sources it the benefit of the doubt. It is like a loonie magnet.