The pharynguloid hordes continue their reign of terror, marching through foreign lands and laying waste to their polls. Today, we crush Norway. An article about a faith healer wants to know whether you think this guy is a:
Placebo (23%)
Helbreder (healer) (61%)
Overtro (superstition) (9%)
Lureri (scamming) (8%)
I think he’s a superstitious scammer who’s taking advantage of the placebo effect, so basically anything but a healer. So go stem!
I stemmed for lureri.
I “stemte” for superstiton
Thanks for putting this one on your site Myers! I saw it yesterday and cried inside when “helbreder” was in a solid lead (still is by the way, go do your work now heathens)
Dagbladet is one of the 2-3 biggest newspapers in Norway
Voted for the scam option. Time to fire up Firefox and try again.
Hehe. The poll’s already starting to move in the right direction.
Just voted for superstition. Percentages haven’t changed.
Happy holidays folks.
OT, but a quick question (forgive my ignorance): Does anyone know if your garden-variety creationist prefers a particular version of the Bible?
To Ben
KJV
They have a massive hard-on for it,
OT: Have you seen Obama’s newest weekly address? In it he talks about his commitment to science and evidence. He also names a few more of the members of his science team. The post with the video is here: http://tinyurl.com/8tgukp
I am happy :)
Marc, thanks! That’ll help me battle a troll on another site.
What is best in life pharyngulites?
To decimate the polls of our enemies, and hear the lamentations of their webmasters!
Clearly a Lureri.
@Mus #8:
Wow! Thank you so much! That video actually brought a tear to my eye.
PZ – I think this (the video in #8) deserves a spot on the front page! My Dog it’s good to see an American president who sounds like he wrote the speech him self and actually understand what it says – and this particular speech just made my week! Hell, my entire Christma…ahem…Winter Solstice and Newton’s birthday as well!
Sorry to say so, but the polls on that site are already being manipulated by right-wing fanatics. That’s why every single political poll seems to suggest that we’d be USA-2 by now, yet we’re not.
Why so many votes for placebo? both scamming and superstition are are 9%, and I think both are far more applicable than placebo…
Ben, the fundies love the KJV so much most of the time they are AMAZED and get PO’d when you inform them its a translation. They dont even believe that fact.
Is it reasonable to assume that all this interest in foreign polls must mean that America has been cured of religion? Yay!
If not, then you really should direct your Pharyngulithic armies at more urging matters.
The battle is already as good as won in Scandinavia and crashing polls here is rather pointless (and not near as funny).
@enshoku
There aren’t too many good polls that need crashing right now, at least not ones in which the pharyngulans wouldn’t completely destroy, the US is running a bit dry lately…
Scam. There is also an unintentional phonetic pun in the headline that could describe the scammer: “Slik jobber”. (I think it means “It works.”)
In US news:
John Holdren.
Holy cow, how in the hell did I end up switching my name and niels…Either I need to lay off the coffee or I need a neurologist…
Good way to start a day!
Crush another idiotic poll…
I stemmed for lureri about 100 times.
@15
Thanks, druidbros!
“Scam. There is also an unintentional phonetic pun in the headline that could describe the scammer: “Slik jobber”. (I think it means “It works.”)
No. “Slik jobber snåsamannen” means “This is how the healer works”
And he’s not scamming anyone appearantly. He does not guarantee success and neither does he accept money for his “healing” Superstition/placebo more likely.
@24
I graciously accept your correction.
still 58% helbreder. 13189 stems. we have much work to do.
Ah – Mus @ #8 beat me to it, and on the same thread, and with a link.
Back to being sick…
SC, OM,
John Holdren’s appointment, if confirmed, is seriously good news! Another representative, alongside Chu, from the reality-based community!
Poll is rigged :( 3 options for people who think he’s an ass, one for people who think he’s real, designed to inflate the perceived percentage who think he’s real.
SC,
Sorry to hear you’re being sick. Norovirus?
#13
Martin, we’re manipulating it the other way though, is that any better? :)
jon @ #10 wins the thread, hands down!
I stemte also, for all the good it seems to have done.
Thanks, Nick. I believe so, since I’m starting to feel better today (just had a piece of cinnamon toast – we’ll see how that goes…). I may even be able to get through a portion of the pile of grading in front of me.
This healer is very, very popular in Norway. For some reason he has gained a lot of acceptance by people who don’t normally believe in such things. Maybe it has something to with the fact that he doesn’t take money for healing people. I guess people think that because he has no economical motives for doing it, he must be the real deal.
I don’t think he is deliberately trying to fool people though, and he always advise people to see a doctor if they are sick.
I definitely think there is an element of placebo in this, because people really seem to expect this to work, and there are so many anecdotes sircling around, enforcing their view.
In a recent interview this guy comes across as surprisingly sensible. What I suspect is going on is that people are being sent to him by friends and relatives, meet a by all accounts nice and decent guy who calms them down, gives them some not to far-out advice, and then they feel better. They tell the people who sent them there how nice he was, and the healer has his reputation enhanced. The healer would soon start to suspect that he is doing some good, and he might, in fact, be right. All in good faith.
Skeptics will not go there in the first place, and any dissatisfied customers would probably not complain to the friends and relatives etc who sent them to him, for fear of being labeled negative or slandering a nice and respected man.
He himself complains about having terminally ill patients coming to him “too late” after treatment by other healers. So at least some of his patients go home to die soon after, presumably without complaining too much about the lack of a cure, or at least not blaming him. You are not encouraged to think too hard about these things.
In other words, placebo, superstition, personality and reputation.
Yai my country! And first post as well :D I’ve read Myers blog for a long time tho :)
KJV, yes, but I’ve also found a lot of fundamentalists rate the NASB (New American Standard Bible) the highest. Bible Gateway is a good resource.
Ben – When I was a snake kissing fundie all my sect used was the KJV.
A really good book you might want to get is: The Counter-Creationism Handbook by Mark Isaak. He is the editor of the “Index of Creationist Claims” on http://www.talkorigins.org
The book covers claims about philosophy, biology, paleontology, geology, astronomy, physics, mathematics, history, and more. It’s all indexed and cross-referenced.
The whole King James Version business is yet another example of fundamentalists losing all contact with reality. They claim to use the KJV (actually I believe they normally refer to it as the Authorized version), but none of them do. The actual KJV Authorised version included the Apocrypha, but the fundamentalist bible does not. I believe the fundamentalist bible actually dates from over a century after King James was dead.
There are some people who claim the King James Version (KJV) is the only proper Bible to use. This belief is called King James Onlyism and is a moderately hot issue among fundamentalists.
@Mus #8:
From the address (emphasis mine):
BOOYAH!
There are some people who claim the King James Version (KJV) is the only proper Bible to use. This belief is called King James Onlyism and is a moderately hot issue among fundamentalists.
Sorry about the double post.
Thanks to everybody re: the KJV. Very helpful. Thanks, ‘Tis. Good link.
Also, Patricia, thanks for the tip.
No Catholics.
King James only.
Final Destination. ;D
Helbreder? Hell no!
He’s a lurid lureri, dagnabbit!
This guy lives only a few miles from where I grew up. As other Norwegians have pointed out, this man has never taken payment for his “services”. He obviously believes it himself, and he has helped a lot of people. He has even warned against healers, and told people who have visited him to go to the doctor.
I voted placebo, although it is also superstition, of course. I do not think he is a scammer who takes advantage of the placebo effect, from what I have read about this man and people who have met him and been to him, I think he is a nice, considerate and very superstitious man (possibly, he has similar psychological insights to those of Derren Brown, but believes them to be of a supernatural nature) who manages to help people because of the placebo effect. From what I could gather, there are currently two projects devoted to researching him (or his “powers”) using scientific methods, and he has conceded to such research.
He is also said to have very warm hands, do any of you know if it is possible for some people to have unusually warm hands (due to unusual metabolism, for example?), so warm that people notices it when touched? If so, it could be that coupled with a very comforting personality, this is the reason behind his reputation.
So this is not scamming, but of course it is superstition and placebo. For those used to American tele-evangelists and “psychic” people taking money for their services it is of course easy to think otherwise. But based on every available evidence I have gathered from reading and and talking to people over the years, this guy is decent, even if very misguided about the objective reality of things. So I think PZ misrepresented his motivations somewhat in his post due to ignorance about him.
(Wow, I, a staunch believer in nothing but what there is evidence for, have laughed and been outraged at all the fundies exposed here for more than a year. Who’d have thought that in my first post here I would actually defend, sorta, a healer? Certainly not me! :)
Hellbreeder.
“He is also said to have very warm hands, do any of you know if it is possible for some people to have unusually warm hands (due to unusual metabolism, for example?), so warm that people notices it when touched?”
He has the solar hands! Get this guy to a bakery, stat!
I have vote for placebo. But overtro (superstition) is another possible answer. This brand of healing works basically through suggestion. A supersticious person is also a suggestive one.
My problem with this kind of healers is that they tend to not acknowledge the fact that anybody can be a healer this way. There are no superpowers here. The other problem is that people with more difficult ailments may seek healers instead of physicians.
@48:
Could a possible explanation be that he is sitting inside a warm office and his patients have come in from the Norwegian cold?
Has anyone seen the latest bit of news from the Disco fools and Wells in particular, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PanZ3li9h6U? He even makes the claim that no new species have ever been observed. Surely various observed instances of speciation contradict this. I was wondering whether anything he says is actually true.
Thanks, MIKE,
Now I feel like an even bigger dork for ‘getting’ that.
really?!? fascinating
I voted scam, come on Pharyngulites, get voting! Gotta stem faster!
Jeg stemte på lureri
This guy is getting massive attention in Norway. While our country might not be filled with religious people, it’s definitely filled with superstitious people. Tarot, psychics, astrology, healers etc. are extremely popular here. It’s like we set ourselves back 30 years.
There’s two science projects that are going to investigate this further, and hopefully put an end to this mess.
Snåsamannen is, as far as I can see, a fairly harmless old geezer. He makes a few claims, but doens’t exploit his ‘gifts’ for personal gain (at least according to the reporter).
However, when a priest kinda endorses him, it gets VERY suspicious.
The poll gives me the impression that Norwegians are reverting to mysticism and superstition, maybe caused by a lack of real purpose and curiosity as a result of greed and superficiality from newly found riches.
Religion and superstition, – lobotomy without physical incision.
Farooha, I could only get half way through. The usual mix of a slight bit of truth followed by a lie.
By the way, here is the link without the question mark:
One is particularly amused at how the poll is designed so as to split the vote among the skeptical by including several inclusive incredulous options, giving “healer” a clear advantage.
Well, what do you know, the percentage of people who have voted “Helbreder” has gone down… perhaps because of people reading this blog?
Hmm… I thought that people in Europe were at least a little less superstitious than the people in the U.S., where here, people believe in all sorts of superstitions. One thing that is positive, though, is that at least nobody in Norway uses superstitions in their politics – or at least no politician does.
Perhaps they do not really believe in this “healer” – after all, perhaps they are saying that they would like to “imagine” him as a healer. After all, that is what most of religion is all about: imaginations, that, although one may not believe, it might be still some good fiction to live by. In this day and age, with education for everyone, can everyone still remain as superstitious as is? Well, perhaps they can – since the common person still is not educated that much.
WEll, the guy in question is far from being the Sylvia Browne type, he’s more like a local original.
Frankly, I don’t think people in Norway give a damn about these polls – except for hardened skeptics like me, and the people that willingly buy into all kind of woo.
@ 52:
“Could a possible explanation be that he is sitting inside a warm office and his patients have come in from the Norwegian cold?”
Probably not. He hasn’t got an office, and even in Norway we have a couple of other seasons than Winter. Sometimes we experience forest fires and droughts.
Here’s more attention for the same healer. He’s a candidate for “name of the year” now, whatever that means. http://go.dagbladet.no/ego.cgi/dbf_oppsl/http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2008/12/21/559214.html
But how can one say it is placebo when he have helped newly born babies? Im a sceptic, but when he dont want any payment, dont guarantee the effect, and eliminate placebo effect because of the young children you have a problem as a sceptic =)
Not when the only evidence is anecdotal. It’s very easy to be sceptical then.
Sten @ 66: But how can one say it is placebo when he have helped newly born babies? Im a sceptic, but when he dont want any payment, dont guarantee the effect, and eliminate placebo effect because of the young children you have a problem as a sceptic =)
This is a very common fallacy, I’m afraid. You should do some research. I’ll content myself with saying that if you think that the placebo effect doesn’t work on babies (or animals, I’d suppose?) then you just don’t understand how the placebo effect really works.