Comments

  1. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    It’s one pm and I haven’t had any coffee or done any work. I basically can’t stop giggling at joey and Brownian and yes, it is like absurdist theater.

  2. Brownian says

    Alright, no NBA fans in here. What about golf? Any picks for the US Open? McIlroy? Woods? Watson?

    >You don’t see one of those.
    What did you want to pick?

    >

    Brownian, can anybody else provide input or is joey the only player?

    >Type ‘help multiplayer for a list of commands.

    >

    *poke*

    >The abyss pokes back at you.
    What do you want to do now?

    >

  3. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Also, if we’re talking about my post, it really isn’t about benefit of the doubt. I think it’s more about the fact that “ridiculous” “triggering” had my brain link up to the last session of Absurd Triggers with Cipher wherein I went all unstuck in time over the wrong song playing while I was in a Whole Foods (and already highly agitated). I am emotionally invested in everybody acknowledging the weirdness of triggers.

  4. Stevarious says

    What do you want to do now?

    Do a flying pirouette off the handle and bleat like a goat.

    For ironic purposes.

  5. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    What about golf?

    >Do you have strong feelings for golf ?

    >

  6. Brownian says

    Do a flying pirouette off the handle and bleat like a goat.

    For ironic purposes.

    >The a goat won’t let you.
    You hear a noise.

  7. joey says

    Well, have you tried looking around? (Hint: type ‘look’)

    Perhaps you’re carrying something useful with you. (Hint: type ‘inventory’)

    > l

    > i

  8. Brownian says

    >Do you have strong feelings for golf ?

    >

    >We’ve decided to see other sports.
    Exits are to the cake, four, and down.

    >

  9. Brownian says

    > l

    > i

    >You see:

    Four strong winds.

    >You are carrying:
    A broken Swiss army knife
    A Blu-ray disc of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep
    A tea strainer
    A map of the area—my mistake; it’s actually a second Blu-ray disc of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep

    >

  10. Brownian says

    help multiplayer

    >The multiplayer thanks you but assures you it can manage on its own.
    >

  11. Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa says

    The a goat won’t let you.

    set the a goat on fire

  12. Stevarious says

    The multiplayer thanks you but assures you it can manage on its own.

    LOL!

    When that’s done, examine cake.

  13. Gnumann says

    >You see:

    Four strong winds.

    >You are carrying:
    A broken Swiss army knife
    A Blu-ray disc of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep
    A tea strainer
    A map of the area—my mistake; it’s actually a second Blu-ray disc of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep

    >

    No torch or lantern..?

    Deep doo-doo!

  14. Brownian says

    set the a goat on fire

    >With what shall you set the a goat on fire, dear Liza, dear Liza?
    Before you can answer, PETA sends you a cease and desist letter.

    >

  15. Brownian says

    examine cake

    >The cake checks out fine, but it’s insistent and well-insured, so you order a lab workup anyway.

    No torch or lantern..?

    >It’s plenty bright enough, what with all these glowing pixels.

  16. Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa says

    > add the a cease and desist letter to inventory

    > add a glowing pixel to inventory

    > use the a glowing pixel to set the a cease and desist letter on fire

    > use the a cease and desist letter on fire to set the a goat alight

  17. Stevarious says

    > Equip Blu-Ray discs. With all these pixels around they should be incredibly powerful!

  18. says

    Also, if we’re talking about my post, it really isn’t about benefit of the doubt. I think it’s more about the fact that “ridiculous” “triggering” had my brain link up to the last session of Absurd Triggers with Cipher wherein I went all unstuck in time over the wrong song playing while I was in a Whole Foods (and already highly agitated). I am emotionally invested in everybody acknowledging the weirdness of triggers.

    I wasn’t suggesting anything about the weirdness of any triggers, though. Accepting this broad definition of triggers, if what she’d said about my arguments had been true I could definitely see my arguments being potentially triggering (and cruel). It’s that what she was saying was false, which was the result of gross intellectual negligence at the very least, and that she was happy to leave that falsehood out there, encouraging others to join in. The claim was ridiculous because its basis was patently false.

    And I’m triggered by Chas’ obsessively linking to Air Supply videos.

  19. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Shepherds Bush.

    Holland Park! It’s not on the outskirts, either. It’s not the edge of Holland Park. This is the rich heartland of Holland Park here

    /eddie monsoon

  20. Brownian says

    > add the a cease and desist letter to inventory

    >Your lawyer has already put the letter in your file and charged you $234.22 for the effort.

    > add a glowing pixel to inventory

    >I don’t think you know how pixels work.

    > use the a glowing pixel to set the a cease and desist letter on fire

    >*Sigh* Fine. The thing you said happens.

    > use the a cease and desist letter on fire to set the a goat alight

    >The memes of text-based adventure and GOATS ON FIRE! come together for one, brief but wonderful moment.

    >

    > Equip Blu-Ray discs. With all these pixels around they should be incredibly powerful!

    >You place the Blu-Ray discs in the Blu-Ray scabbards hanging at your hips and take a moment to recall the extras, bloopers, and commentaries your blu ray fu master taught you. You should be ready for absolutely anything now.

    >

  21. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    >A fog is closing in. What do you want to do?

  22. cm's changeable moniker says

    Apparently, only when posting vodka-based drinks on TET. Curious.

  23. Brownian says

    >A fog is closing in. What do you want to do?

    >No one ever asks me that. That is so sweet.
    Since the weather’s so bad, let’s stay in a watch a movie. I’ve got a Blu-Ray of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep. Let me just disable the CPU fan and I’ll whip up some of my famous motherboard popcorn.

  24. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Can we watch Aliens instead? the 1990 cut is awesome

  25. Stevarious says

    I’ve got a Blu-Ray of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep.

    Hey, give that back! I need my Blu-Ray-Fu!

  26. Brownian says

    Hey, give that back! I need my Blu-Ray-Fu!

    >Abort, Retry, Fail?_

    [Tosses some resistors on the floor and escapes through a logic gate.]

  27. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    I’ve got a Blu-Ray of “Defending Your Life” with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep.

    Damn. I was kinda hoping for Some Like it Hot. I may be straight, but there is something about a certain actor in drag . . . .

    [Tosses some resistors on the floor and escapes through a logic gate.]

    Considering our newest denizen, I think logic is not an option.

  28. cm's changeable moniker says

    I’m appalled: the Circle Line is no longer a circle.

    They should rename it the Spiral Line.

    (Although it looks more like one of those hand-held vacuum cleaners.)

    Gunnersbury!

  29. Sili says

    Gunnersbury!

    Damn! We’re in spoon already!

    Hmmmm … tough one.

    HAH!

    Gospel Oak!

  30. kemist, Dark Lord of the Sith says

    >Abort, Retry, Fail?_

    [Tosses some resistors on the floor and escapes through a logic gate.]

    > Unhandled exception.
    Access violation : the memory at 0x004173c8 cannot be read.

  31. Gnumann says

    Considering our newest denizen, I think logic is not an option.

    Has Plantiga been banished to TZT while I wasn’t looking? (Equal parts hopeful and fearful)

  32. says

    Oh, speaking of triggering… Thanks, Owlmirror, for the short-story note. I’m now in possession of Again, Dangerous Visions. I don’t think I’m quite ready for that one yet, so I’m working my way through the others. Just started “The Word for World is Forest” by Ursula K. Le Guin, and am enjoying that. So even if the Piers Anthony story turns out to be too much, I’m sure I’ll like some of the others.

  33. 'Tis Himself says

    > Unhandled exception.

    Access violation : the memory at 0x004173c8 cannot be read.

    Somebody set us up the bomb!

  34. cm's changeable moniker says

    Gospel Oak

    Are we playing under Shagford-Timbletwitt rules, now? Because that’s not an Underground station. (I’d have played Stratford, but that’s just me.)

    And don’t try Highbury & Islington, because that’s clearly been played before (Gunners’ bury). You see? I’m evil ….

  35. Sili says

    ecause that’s not an Underground station.

    My bad!

    Sorry. I was confused by the Spoon somehow, but no, we’re still wholly Littletonian.

    Thank you for the correction. I’ll go with Ealing Common instead.

  36. Amphiox says

    >Abort!

    That is, if it’s okay with joey.

    Of course its okay. The tyrant slavemaster only wants laws against it. Never said he wouldn’t do it anyways if his life or comfort depended on it.

    The tyrants laws never actually apply to the tyrant himself, anyways, except when someone is watching and the tyrant wants to show off his virtue.

  37. cm's changeable moniker says

    Ealing Common

    Ealing Broadway!

    (I got lost whilst driving round Ealing once, trying to avoid a traffic jam on the north circular. There’s an awful lot of identikit Edwardian houses in them closes.)

  38. cm's changeable moniker says

    them -> those

    or:

    them -> them thar, if you’re feeling piratical

    Bond Street

    Not in a month beginning with “J”, remember? Have you no shame?

  39. 'Tis Himself says

    cm’s changeable moniker #46

    The ISO has three official languages: French, English and Russian. My father, who was a mechanical engineer, was in the ISO working group for fuels and lubricants standards. They would come up with a standard and publish it in French. My father, who spoke and wrote technical French, would translate it into English and a Russian engineer would give a Russian translation. After a while, my father noticed that the Russian translation would always come out a couple of weeks after the English translation and he asked the Russian about this. The Russian explained he was the only engineer in Russia he knew who knew technical French and he did very little translation himself. So he’d wait until the English translation came out because there were lots of Russian engineers who knew technical English and he’d get one of them to do the translation from English into Russian.

  40. opposablethumbs says

    I wonder if English will stick around like the most-used keyboard layouts do despite having been designed precisely not to be ergonomically efficient – from sheer inertia.

  41. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Accepting this broad definition of triggers, if what she’d said about my arguments had been true I could definitely see my arguments being potentially triggering (and cruel).

    I’m confused. (Actually confused, not “sorta thinking you might be wrong but not sure why.”) I wasn’t trying to use a broad definition of triggers. The normal regular ol’ definition of triggers as things that cause trauma flashbacks or recurrences of trauma reactions is what I was going for. They’re weird and unpredictable and often really absurd. Did that not come across?
    I get that the thing you were saying wasn’t the thing Daisy said you were saying, though. That part is agreed by us. I haven’t ever completely understood the arguments about mental illness, but I know there’s background reading I have to do and I don’t have time to do it for a while, so I’ve just made up my mind to remember that these things are disputed.

  42. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    >Sculley Square Station.

    >Open Window.

    >Receive Sandwich.

  43. itto says

    Dollis Hill, depositing 3 red podumes. So there.
    (Sili, it’s “Lyttelton”. I miss Humph.)
    *meta* Mornington Crescent on Pharyngula? I swoon.

  44. itto says

    Well, bugger. Killed another thread. So what do people feel about the “Best Of The Left” podcast? Someone recommended it to me 6 months ago, and I’ve been enjoying it, for the most part. The 2-parter War On Women in February this year was a bloody amazing selection for me as a Brit, listening to how American commentators see how misogyny is being used as a forceful motif in US politics. I laughed out loud, and also swore a lot. Blacking It Up seems good; also Young Turks and the Andy Salzman/ John Oliver podcast. Am I missing other good podcasts? Part of me would like to retreat to Radio 4 world and Cabin Pressure and pretend that listening to Benedict Cumberbatch will make the bad stuff go away, but.. nah. So what podcasts do people subscribe to?

  45. John Morales says

    itto:

    So what podcasts do people subscribe to?

    None; I prefer to read stuff.

    (It’s far, far faster to get through and less bandwith-greedy)

  46. ChasCPeterson says

    Air Supply videos

    I was going to make a joke about how that, now that is triggering, but that would really be devaluing the term.
    So I’ll offer my intellectually honest reaction:

    *gag*

  47. ChasCPeterson says

    I find Mornington Crescent too British.

    I find they won’t let you play, like, Pico & Sepulveda, or Waverley Square, or Jamaica Station. For three examples.

  48. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’ve decided that fuck the atheist community. I mean, before, I was like “No, I’m not going in there. I’ll sit over here and help them with what to do if they want people like me in there, but I’m not going in there.” But now? Fuck it altogether. I don’t need that shit.

  49. John Morales says

    Cipher, ‘community’ is a polysemous term.

    (one could claim even I am a member, by choosing an appropriate sense)

  50. Patricia, OM says

    Antigodless – How does your new short leash feel? Jezus didn’t save you much, did he. *snort*

  51. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    Would “movement” help?
    I’m not just going to not go to conferences and meetings and sort of feel like I’m missing out, I’m going to just stop giving a fuck about conferences and meetings. I’m not going to worry about Prominent Atheist Figures I don’t know and their continuously disappointing behavior. They have nothing to do with me. Basically, I’m just not identifying myself with atheism anymore. I sure as hell am not identifying myself with religion, because yuck, but I’m disgusted with the self-satisfied self-proclaimed Skeptics who figured out there weren’t invisible skypeople and decided they were done learning shit now. Fuck ‘em.

  52. cm's changeable moniker says

    Jamaica Station

    In NY? I know that one. It’s probably eligible under the international rules.

  53. John Morales says

    Cipher, not really, for a similar reason.

    Sounds like you’re like me: an atheist who speaks up when they feel it appropriate.

  54. Agent Silversmith, Feathered Patella Association says

    Patricia, I’m expecting that antigodless will try to preach on another thread and get the boot, without providing any chewtoy entertainment in here. Godbotters can never do anything right.

  55. John Morales says

    antigodless knows this is Purgatory for it—it’s sole modus operandi has been to snipe in various threads—now it actually has to contribute something to post, and it knows what will happen when it does.

    (“I love it so”)

  56. John Morales says

    [Ack!]

    <muttermuttermuttermuttermuttermuttermuttermuttermuttermuttermutter>

    Stupid apostrophe, sneaking in like that!

  57. Patricia, OM says

    Agent Silversmith – Having been a super fundy myself, I get a real kick out of the godbots. It’s like being Alice with my head stuck halfway through the looking glass.

  58. John Morales says

    Now, to the important issue at hand: How to get the joey and the antigodless to at least team-tag, if not actually cage-fight?

  59. Patricia, OM says

    Hi John – Having been absent for some time, I’ll take your word for this latest bots behaviour. If I were still preaching I would take this as PZ’s pulpit for the persuasion of the godless damned. I’m suprised this thread isn’t Hoggled by the godly 24/7.

  60. John Morales says

    Hey, Patricia.

    I hope you and the naughty one are doing well, and that the ladies are too.

  61. Amphiox says

    Anyone want to take bets on how long it will take for txpiper to get itself quarantined here?

    Normally a creobot of its manifest dishonesty gets itself quarantined fast, but the texpip is a slippery one. It will jump threads in an attempt to never linger long enough in one location to trip any alarms.

  62. Patricia, OM says

    Thanks John, I’m doing my best. *grin* The veterans at the office (where I volunteer) talked me into entering therapy for my PTSD, which has turned out to be a real plus, but then my dad died on May 18th, and my cousin died on June 8th, and that just set the whole crappy episodes going again.

    Hopefully – it’s better now.

    The new ladies are fully feathered, but not able to fly into the olive tree yet, so no welcome home fly over for Nerds Redhead. They are cute and feisty!

  63. John Morales says

    Amphiox, I reckon PZ is well aware of this specimen’s history over at SB.

    (IOW, it likely won’t take much of a casus belli)

  64. says

    Ewww, so this is what that traffic spike is. PZ, mind removing John M’s link @64 please ? It is bringing all kinds of unpleasant visitors and emails.

  65. John Morales says

    rorschach, what?

    It’s in the public domain, and it’s relevant.

    (Your post, feel free to delete it if visitors annoy you)

  66. says

    I’ve decided that fuck the atheist community.

    I think what is happening to many of us is that we realize that on the one hand, sharing one single belief or lack thereof is not enough to form a tightknit cohesive social group or movement, and on the other hand that the values and convictions we thought in the hightime of the new atheism hype a couple or so years ago would surely have to be shared by if not all than at least most of us in this movement, are in fact not shared by many at all. And it’s been one big hangover ever since that realization.

    Ever since the president of the Australian Atheist Foundation and one of his cronies told me, a paying delegate of his convention, to “fuck off asshole” for a blog post from 6 months earlier that he happened to disagree with, I have made up my mind to not be participating in the movement anymore, and to not pay for any conventions or meetings, at least in Australia.

    And I have also completely abandoned the idea that atheists or skeptics may have some inherent goodness to them that is lacking in the wider community.

  67. John Morales says

    rorschach,

    And I have also completely abandoned the idea that atheists or skeptics may have some inherent goodness to them that is lacking in the wider community.

    Well, duh.

    (One less delusion ain’t much in the scheme of things)

  68. Patricia, OM says

    Rorshach – I hope you are wrong about the atheist community. It could be that I am so far removed from the mainstream group that I am naive and out of touch.

    I’m going to the FFRF convention in October in Portland, Oregon, and if atheists are lacking in goodness I’m going to be totally blown away and saddened into darkness.

  69. Patricia, OM says

    John Morales –
    Do you really think we are in this bad of shape? I’m out in the nether world of atheism (Oregon) in a fundy community, but even here atheism is seeping into the micro-cracks. Three high school students have told me they don’t believe in the bible or god, that is huge here.

  70. John Morales says

    Patricia, no, I actually think the consciousness-raising part of it is going well, and for sure the Overton window has been pushed rightward in that regard.

    (But still, atheism should be a consequence of rationalism, not a basis for it; it’s a type of scepticism)

  71. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ rorschach

    It seems too many people are taking the perspective of “dictionary” atheism rather than seeing it as a small, logical part of a much greater humanist world-view.

    Dictionary atheism is, to my mind, a pretty useless thing as it gives no aspirations or goals. It is the simple rejection of gods. Surely, if so much effort and money is going to be put into the “gnu atheist movement”, we need to have more concrete goals.

    What I like about Pharyngula is that we can make so much more of the atheist movement by infusing it with such a good dose of skepticism and humanism.

    (Would you not be making better use of your time, if your assessment is correct, in supporting something like http://www.humanist.org.au/ ?)

  72. says

    It seems too many people are taking the perspective of “dictionary” atheism rather than seeing it as a small, logical part of a much greater humanist world-view.

    We’ve had this discussion. What I’m trying to say is that based on the evidence I’ve seen, I’m prepared to ditch the idea that most atheists are prepared to consider or implement this humanist worldview. They’re just people.

  73. theophontes (坏蛋) says

    @ rorschach

    I’m prepared to ditch the idea that most atheists are prepared to consider or implement this humanist worldview.

    I am prepared to ditch atheism and rather (try to, at least) expand a humanist worldview.

    (dog.tail.wag.the)

  74. mehitabel, wotthehell wotthehell says

    rorschach @ 84: Hi. I’ve lurked on and off (with long periods of off) at Pharyngula for years now and have been trying to catch up on the history between you all and the ERV crowd in an effort to make some sense of all that’s being said about sexism in atheism and skepticism lately. Finally had to fight see you’re getting nasty emails. If it helps at all, that link was just what I needed. Granted I learned more than I ever wanted to know, but good on you for speaking up. I haven’t been very active at all as a RL atheist or even kept up online (or actually, come to that, had much of a life at all for quite some time) owing to some really crappy life circumstances, and returning to my usual round of atheist and skeptic blogs was a big shock. Honestly, I’d be just about ready to say fuck atheism, too, if it weren’t for people like you all objecting to obvious, even ludicrous, sexism. So thanks again.

  75. mehitabel, wotthehell wotthehell says

    Er, what? That comment should read: finally had to fight huge shyness and delurk to say: THANKS. Sorry to see you’re getting nasty emails. etc.

  76. says

    Honestly, I’d be just about ready to say fuck atheism, too, if it weren’t for people like you all objecting to obvious, even ludicrous, sexism.

    Hi there mehitabel, and thanks for the kind words, but Im really just some cynic trying to be a half-decent person, and to follow a wider discussion that I don’t know terribly much about, and that did not involve me personally for a long time due to me being a member of a lot of in-groups for which sexism isn’t an issue.
    There are lots of people fighting sexism on Pharyngula and IRL, so be a fan of them instead !

  77. John Morales says

    rorschach, FWIW, both Orac and John Wilkins toyed with NuAtheism and ditched it.

    (Both impress me)

  78. mehitabel, wotthehell wotthehell says

    There are lots of people fighting sexism on Pharyngula and IRL, so be a fan of them instead !

    I know there are; my last thanks was really to the Horde in general, but expressed poorly. However, I don’t think this is an ‘instead’ situation. :) Your post on the ERV crowd was very handy; it was just what I was looking for. Since you’re getting bad traffic after it was linked here, would you prefer that I didn’t link anyone else to it, and instead just give them the ERV links I got from it directly?

  79. says

    both Orac and John Wilkins toyed with NuAtheism and ditched it.

    Citations needed. As to Orac, he’s just an angry surgeon playing ueber-skeptic, and he seems to always have washed himself of any association with the NA anyway, as far as I can tell. As to John Wilkins, I wouldn’t say he ditched the NA, his background is philosophy and his priorities may be different, but from the communications I have had with him online and recently IRL, I think it is not that simple.

  80. opposablethumbs says

    Hi mehitabel (I love your nym, btw), just chiming in to say that this – the indomitable refusal of sexism – is why I hang around here on Pharyngula and not anywhere else in the atheist-skeptic blogosphere. I’m sorry about the crappy circumstances, and I hope you might decide to hang around here too.

  81. mehitabel, wotthehell wotthehell says

    Hi, opposablethumbs. And everybody else. (John Morales, thanks for putting up that link I liked so damn much.) Yeah, it looks like it’ll be mostly Pharyngula and some other FTBlogs for me too. I’m pleased you like the ‘nym, opposablethumbs. It is my Don Marquis tribute. And a little burst of catly defiance in this nest of…cephalophiles?

  82. John Morales says

    mehitabel, thanks.

    (Don’t mind rorschach, he’s just this grouchy ER dude)

    rorschach,

    Citations needed.

    Not really, it’s only my opinion.

    (Perhaps I’m wrong)

  83. says

    rorschach

    We’ve had this discussion. What I’m trying to say is that based on the evidence I’ve seen, I’m prepared to ditch the idea that most atheists are prepared to consider or implement this humanist worldview. They’re just people.

    Hmm
    Looking at Germany where you have 30% atheists of which 99% are just as bad as the rest of the people seems to confirm that. But on the other hand, people involved in a community around that point are a self-selected group.

  84. says

    Giliell,

    I think maybe the biggest mistake made was that of thinking that everyone in the atheist movement would be as cool and nice and clever and engaged and aware and sensitive as the folks on Pharyngula. So when the Pharyngulites met, it was most often like that, and it kindof reinforced the idea. But the reality of the movement at large just didnt turn out to be like that. I’m sure PZ and ED had the odd WTF moment since they started FtB, too.

  85. mikmik says

    Fuck Scottishism, I’ve ditched that crowd of hooligans, think I’ll join the Brits. Ay, ya boonch a wee toosh waggers, aim one ye! Flounce the mik’s, AYE!

  86. mikmik says

    theophontes (坏蛋), mikmik(歹徒在训练) here. die wêreld in duie te stort, teken my aan ASL. Hierdie skelms te tem

  87. says

    So just the other day, Amanda Palmer accidentally ran into a certain Richard O’Brien in Auckland. This is what came out of it, such is this.

    Pray to PZ these don’t embed ! And, are we actually allowed to post music here ?

  88. mikmik says

    rorschach, all good, I actually have seen them embed, but I don’t why that happens. Probably use the embed code!

    Music almost seems a necessity to me. It certainly conveys much, much more meaning than words do.

  89. Cipher, OM, Fighting Fucktoy says

    I’m really miserable. I just had to delete one of my favorite pieces of textual analysis from my paper – a full page in length – because it turns out I misunderstood a crucial bit of background. Also, it’s 6:00AM and I haven’t slept yet.

  90. says

    Also, it’s 6:00AM and I haven’t slept yet.

    I’m trying to tackle the same problem with alcohol and painkillers as we speak, I’ll let you know how I went tomorrow.

  91. joey says

    Nerd from here:

    Still not proving your case Joey, and you can’t with fuckwitted questions. Here’s what you need to do:

    1) Show conclusive evidence woman are terminating their feti for birth control reasons after week 24.

    Since you can’t or won’t prove 1), there is no need to go further, as you don’t have a case, just bullshit OPINION.

    Here you go Nerd, straight from the very front page of cnn.com.

    Okay sure, that case involved a 3-month old infant, not a fetus. But you cannot deny that such “gendercide” is not practiced at any prior stage of life (infant or fetus).

    Here’s an interesting quote from the article…

    His study shows a surprising trend: Sex selective abortions among the educated and well-off seem to be more prevalent than among the desperately poor and uneducated. Despite greater prosperity, their mindsets have not changed and they have the money to pay for ultrasounds and abortions.

    Need more evidence Nerd?

  92. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Okay sure, that case involved a 3-month old infant, not a fetus.

    Which makes it totally irrelevant. Post birth is not a fetus. Period, end of story. Only a fuckwitted evidenceless idjit like you would even attempt such stoopidity. YOU LOSE AGAIN…Try real and relevant evidence…

  93. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    Oh, look, joey is now bringing up yet another totally and completely irrelevent case which still does not justify his idea that women end their pregnancies just before parturition on a whim and therefore all abortions must be ended. Now we have a case in which a three-month-old baby (hey, joey, was the umbilical cord still attached?) is murdered as a way to tell women they cannot control what happens to their bodies. Colour me surprised.

  94. says

    joey, you’re putting the carriage before the horse here. Abortion of female foetuses, or even killing baby girls is not the cause, it’s a symptom of misogyny.

    And I’d rather the mother have a chance to have a safe abortion than be forced to give birth to an unwanted child, no matter what her reasons. Whether you feel it’s icky is your problem.

  95. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Joey, by posting such an irrelevant fuckwitted “evidence”, you are tacitly acknowledging my point that abortions for birth control purposes don’t happen after week 24. Or you would have posted something relevant to that issue.

  96. Nightjar says

    Okay sure, that case involved a 3-month old infant, not a fetus. But you cannot deny that such “gendercide” is not practiced at any prior stage of life (infant or fetus).

    Fuck off, joey. That’s a totally different issue that should be dealt with on a totally different level. Restricting or outlawing abortion won’t do a damn thing to address that kind of problem, and you know it.

  97. mikmik says

    Fuckin traditional spelling. Look, if you guy’s would just get it through your heads that making drugs illegal will stop everyone from killing and profiting large by producing and manufacturing them on their own, then we wouldn’t have the problems we do in Mexico.
    Same with abortion. As if the rich and educated will still pay for their ‘gendercide’ to quacks that discover an immense opportunity for marketing ultrasounds and terminations. It just is fucking common sense, why I even have proof. A friend of mine said his daughter won’t do drugs, even if they’re legal! It’s this kind of sweeping change that prove how making a symptom illegal fixes the problem.

    “The more technology becomes advanced, and the more people that can easily deploy it, the more making it illegal will stop it”
    Poe.

  98. joey says

    Weed Monkey:

    And I’d rather the mother have a chance to have a safe abortion than be forced to give birth to an unwanted child, no matter what her reasons.

    Understood.

  99. Amphiox says

    I see gooey the tyrant slavemaster is moving on to another standard tyrant trick – dishonestly using some obviously extreme and exceptional case to justify the broad and oppressive laws that he wants to impose, hoping that the immediate moral outrage among ethically minded people will blunt and mute the immediate opposition, and that later, when cooler heads prevail, it will be too late to reverse the laws.

    Now this case of infanticide, see, is already covered by existing laws. Namely the laws against murder. These are the kinds of laws that I mentioned before that most people here do support, that already sufficiently regulate the late term pregnancy situations to address abuses. Because these GENERAL laws adequately cover the situation, new, specific laws are unnecessary.

    Suppose we all agree that sex selective abortion is unethical. Would that justify making a law against it? The answer is no. Why?

    In North America, it occurs quite rarely and isn’t a large problem. So a blanket law, imposed by central authority, is unnecessary.

    In parts of Asia, it is a bigger problem, but how could you enforce such a law? How could you prove that any given abortion was done for sex selection? If the cultural imperative that favors it, people will find ways to do it. That makes the law IMPRACTICAL. And blanket outlawing all abortions, or all female abortions (including early term) is HEAVY-HANDED.

    Law is NOT the way to deal with ingrained cultural practices and traditions, if individuals are put in a position that forces them to choose between law and culture, culture wins almost every time. And if it is a democracy, such as India, the law may well not survive the next election cycle.

    So how do you deal with the problem of sex selective abortion? On the individual decision making level. On the cultural level. You change the culture in a way that convinces women that they do not want to do sex selective abortions, so they won’t choose it. You change the culture so that physicians will not consider sex selective abortions medically appropriate and will not offer it as an option.

    That is how honest and fair-minded people who care about liberty approach this kind of problem.

    Not by using any excuse to impose restrictive laws from central authority.

    That is what TYRANTS do.

  100. says

    I see gooey the tyrant slavemaster is moving on to another standard tyrant trick – dishonestly using some obviously extreme and exceptional case to justify the broad and oppressive laws that he wants to impose,

    How is that not the “lets kill babies” trick he started with?

  101. joey says

    Weed Monkey:

    … of course you also realized it was the alternative to being forced to give birth to an unwanted child, right?

    Of course. So I assume you believe in the right for the woman to terminate her fetus at any time and for whatever reason. Correct?

  102. Amphiox says

    Restricting abortion will INCREASE female infanticide in those cultural traditions. This is, of course, how unwanted female infants were disposed of before abortions were easily medically available.

  103. Amphiox says

    Tyrant slavemaster gooey still perseverating on the deliberate and pathetically dishonest “terminating the fetus” angle, I see.

    Textbook intellectual dishonesty.

  104. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Joey appears to have his head up his ass. Irrelevant and meaningless examples. First, show there is a problem here in Dah US. Then show your “solution” actually does better in reality, not JoeyDelusionWorld, than the present system. Or, shut the fuck up…

  105. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    So I assume you believe in the right for the woman to terminate her fetus at any time and for whatever reason.

    You have no excuse any more. This is obviously intentional. An abortion terminates a pregnancy. You got that? Pregnancy. Not foetus. Not unborn baby. Pregnancy.

    This is even more evidence that joey is not arguing. Joey is not discussing. Joey is doing a two-step dissembulating gotcha and preach.

  106. joey says

    Amphiox:

    Now this case of infanticide, see, is already covered by existing laws. Namely the laws against murder. These are the kinds of laws that I mentioned before that most people here do support, that already sufficiently regulate the late term pregnancy situations to address abuses. Because these GENERAL laws adequately cover the situation, new, specific laws are unnecessary.

    So you support some of the currently existing laws that restrict late term abortion? Which ones?

    That is how honest and fair-minded people who care about liberty approach this kind of problem.

    Not by using any excuse to impose restrictive laws from central authority.

    Do you believe in anti-discrimination laws?

  107. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    So I assume you believe in the right for the woman to terminate her fetus at any time and for whatever reason.

    I’m still waiting on you giving me your lung, joey. So i assume you believe in the right for you to kill me by not giving me a new lung, for whatever reason. Correct?

  108. joey says

    Ogvorbis:

    You have no excuse any more. This is obviously intentional. An abortion terminates a pregnancy. You got that? Pregnancy. Not foetus. Not unborn baby. Pregnancy.

    But I was replying to Weed Monkey, who mentioned the alternative of being forced to give birth to an unwanted child. But an abortion simply to terminate the pregnancy but not the fetus would still result in the birth of an unwanted child.

  109. joey says

    Illuminata:

    I’m still waiting on you giving me your lung, joey. So i assume you believe in the right for you to kill me by not giving me a new lung, for whatever reason. Correct?

    Incorrect.

  110. says

    joey

    Of course. So I assume you believe in the right for the woman to terminate her fetus at any time and for whatever reason. Correct?

    No, you asshole. In the right for the woman to terminate her pregnancy at any time and for whatever reason. Don’t put words in my mouth.

  111. ChasCPeterson says

    To terminate a pregnancy must involve the termination of something about a fetus. Its life? Its ‘life’? Its development? One.

  112. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Joey, until you stop twisting our words, you are a liar and bullshitter. Until you stop lying and bullshitting, we won’t agree to anything you say or propose. Stop your fuckwittery (the deliberate lying and bullshitting), and look at the facts. If the real facts don’t support you, and they don’t, shut the fuck up like a person of honesty and integrity would do.

  113. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    But an abortion simply to terminate the pregnancy but not the fetus would still result in the birth of an unwanted child.

    And this has been explained to you again and again and again. Remember the conversations (no, they were not conversations as that would imply that you were actually listening (or, in this case, reading for comprehension)) about induced labour? All of that medical talk regarding a woman and her doctor?

    Doesn’t matter to you, though. You presume the right to tell another human being what they can and cannot do with their body. You arrogate to yourself the role of doctor, the role of parent to a small child, the role of gods. Why don’t you try, just for once, reading what people actually write?

  114. Amphiox says

    If the anti-discrimination laws are not heavy-handed, unnecessary, or impractical, I support it. If they are, I don’t.

    Depends on the law.

    Absolutist tyrannical thinkers like gooey simply cannot grok the concept that some things must be dealt with on an individual case by case basis.

  115. says

    Chas, one way for a pregnancy to end is birth. Caesarean sections aren’t unheard of, either. No gotcha point for you this time, boo hoo.

    You don’t seem to have much opinions of your own, but are more than happy to snipe at anyone who you feel has made a mistake.

  116. joey says

    Okay, let me ask one more time…

    Is it okay to have laws that restrict the termination of the fetus after a certain point, while allowing the termination of the pregnancy at any point?

  117. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Incorrect.

    Lol uh-huh. Very easy to say when you know there’s no actual way to compel you to give up a lung, isn’t it. What you wan to force women to do, you are exempt from. How convenient. How does it feel to have outed yourself as a misogynist. Again.

  118. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Is it okay to have laws that restrict the termination of the fetus after a certain point, while allowing the termination of the pregnancy at any point?

    Translation: fuck those stupid incubator bitchez. Shouldn’t have gotten pregnant if they didn’t want life-threatening complications!

  119. Amphiox says

    It’s not about the birth of an unwanted child. It is about the GIVING birth to an unwanted child. The process, which is not just the final few hours, but the whole thing, ie THE PREGNANCY.

    (The fact that the woman has to endure some procedure to end her pregnancy, whether induced birth, natural birth, c-section, or abortion, ie something gooey the lying slavemaster trues to twist into the metaphor for “birth”, is the practical reality of imperfect technology. We don’t have Star Trek style transporters that can just warp a fetus out of a womb*).

    *Star Trek writers really dropped the ball with regards to failure of imagination in the medical applications of their fancy tech. That episode where Picard has to undergo heart surgery? Completely unnecessary as depicted. It would be the equivalent of CSI showing someone having to undergo a leg amputation without anesthetic as an elective procedure.

  120. joey says

    Amphiox:

    These are the kinds of laws that I mentioned before that most people here do support, that already sufficiently regulate the late term pregnancy situations to address abuses.

    You still have mentioned what these laws are that “most people here do support”. Do these laws have anything to do with the fetus being still inside the woman?

  121. Amphiox says

    gooey, every question you ask that contains the phrase “termination of the fetus” will be ignored as the contemptible intellectually dishonest and transparent attempt at redirection from the actual issues that matter that it is.

  122. Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls says

    Has Gooey stopped lying and bullshitting yet, and faced reality? Apparently not, so every word it says is considered a lie. Dishonesty all the way down. Stop lying to yourself Gooey. Only then, can you stop lying to us.

  123. Amphiox says

    The current laws against homicide cover all the situations involving a baby still attached by the umbilical.

    The current laws governing medical malpractice covers all the situations where abortion is inappropriate for terminating late term pregnancies and induced birth should be used. The physician’s decisions which govern these cases and what is appropriate to offer to a woman to choose aren’t arbitrary. They are tightly regulated and in fact requires YEARS of training for physicians to become qualified to and allowed to make them.

    (The same degree of training and regulation, incidentally, that I think gun owners should be required to have, before being allowed to fire the weapons that they should be completely free to own.)

  124. Ogvorbis: Ignorant sycophantic magpie. says

    A few weeks ago, I got involved with a rather lengthy conversation about trains with a six-year-old boy. Actually, it was not really a conversation. It was him asking the same basic question, with minor modifications, and always prefaced by, “what if,” while I answered the same basic question in as many different ways that I could. The conversation was tiring, tedious, and lasted far too long.

    Joey, grow the fuck up and stop doing to the six-year-old ‘what if’ questioning. The question has been answered. Again and again and againandagainandagain. And then you rephrase it. And it is answered again. And then you ask, well, what if? and it is answered. Again and again.

    The talk with the little boy was far more enjoyable.

    The big difference was, the little boy actually listened.

  125. Amphiox says

    6 year old children ask their what-if questions honestly. It is rather endearing, as you watch their minds whirring, their imaginations afire, and their intellectual growth occurring before your eyes as you answer them.

    If it gets annoying from going on too long, the annoyance is not their fault – the fault lies in me, and my damnable imperfect degree of stamina to continue to engage in such a rewarding and important activity.

    It is very different from the sort of transparent dishonesty displayed by gooey, who is not looking for answers, but rhetorical “gotcha” traps.

  126. says

    Is it possible? Joey is even less interesting than rajkumar? It does not bode well for Joey if he is only going to stick to one-note gotcha, that raj – despite his wild flights of colourful fancy – was eventually booted for being boring.

  127. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    Star Trek writers really dropped the ball with regards to failure of imagination in the medical applications of their fancy tech. That episode where Picard has to undergo heart surgery? Completely unnecessary as depicted.

    I love ST, but you are totally right. I have a simliar issue re: ward drive. I get that traveling at high warp wears on the engines. Ok, fine.

    But why, in a crisis, are they still not traveling at top speed? Case in point “Who Watches the Watchers”. A generator in a duck blind hiding an anthropology team on a non-warp planet blows up, while picard et al are watching and Picard says to race there at “warp six.”. WTF? Get your asses over there!

    And what about replicators? Why does Picard need an artificial heart? Replicators replicate everything.

  128. says

    That’s one of the things that caused me to stop watching Trek. Technology seemed to exist solely as an easy plot point for this week’s drama. They took technobabble abuse to the x-treme*.

    *sorry about the neospeak, but ever since my furnace was serviced by X-Treme Heating and Cooling that particular one has cracked me up.

  129. says

    myeck – it is possible that Picard had a genetic condition which would have resulted in a new, cloned heart degrading? I don’t recall why his needed replacement.

  130. says

    @A.R – Why not? If it can construct something on a molecular scale. Or does this lead into a ‘vitalism in science fiction’ discussion?

  131. A. R says

    Strewth: I think it has something to do with not being able to replicate cellular structures perfectly.

  132. Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa says

    the replicator can’t replicate living things

    Why not? If it can construct something on a molecular scale.

    Because the power surge necessary to replicate a living organism would generate a tachyon emission from the deflector dish, causing the depletion of the dilithium crystals and possible rupture of the subspace-time fabric, with the additional risk of producing random fluctuations in the warp field.

    Obviously.

  133. ChasCPeterson says

    Chas, one way for a pregnancy to end is birth. Caesarean sections aren’t unheard of, either. No gotcha point for you this time, boo hoo.

    uh
    wut?
    This makes no sense at all in response to my comment.
    Do you really think I was trying to say that abortion is the only way a pregnancy can be terminated?
    I mean, I guess it could be read that way literally, but I figured that because it was clearly posted in response to the argument that ‘abortion is not the termination of a fetus, it’s the termination of a pregnancy’ it would be obvious that I meant ‘termination of a pregnancy by abortion also terminates something about a fetus’. So please argue with and/or spank me for something I actually meant to say instead of your hyperliteral misreading of what I wrote a bit lazily there. Thanks.

  134. A. R says

    Strewth: Yeah, I’ve always wondered about that… I suppose the excuse is that replicators have a less advanced form of transporter technology or something like that.

  135. ChasCPeterson says

    a tachyon emission from the deflector dish, causing the depletion of the dilithium crystals and possible rupture of the subspace-time fabric, with the additional risk of producing random fluctuations in the warp field.

    ach, she can’t take much more o’ that!

  136. A. R says

    a tachyon emission from the deflector dish, causing the depletion of the dilithium crystals and possible rupture of the subspace-time fabric, with the additional risk of producing random fluctuations in the warp field.

    Of course, it might cause a power surge in the cabrodine detector leading to fluctuations in the bioregenerative transducer.

  137. Amphiox says

    And what about replicators? Why does Picard need an artificial heart? Replicators replicate everything.

    Have young Picard go through a transporter (before his heart problem). SAVE the transporter data on him, including his healthy young heart.

    Middle-aged Picard has heart problem. Run him back through the transporter. Have computer download old file with the data for a young, healthy heart. Cut and paste. Maybe a little bit of an AI algorithm will be needed to match up the edges (or, you know have an actual person do it, maybe with the help of the holodeck).

    Middle-aged Picard comes out transporter with healthy young heart.

    Old Picard doesn’t need artificial heart.

    (This also means, incidentally, that no red shirts ever actually need to die. Maybe they DID do this, since, if you watch closely, at least in TOS, it is usually the SAME red shirt guy who dies every episode….)

  138. Amphiox says

    It does not bode well for Joey if he is only going to stick to one-note gotcha, that raj – despite his wild flights of colourful fancy – was eventually booted for being boring.

    By the raj’s precedent, that gives gooey several iterations of TZT worth of time to bore us, though.

  139. Amphiox says

    a tachyon emission from the deflector dish, causing the depletion of the dilithium crystals and possible rupture of the subspace-time fabric, with the additional risk of producing random fluctuations in the warp field.

    So you can’t do it on a ship.

    Transport you replicator to the surface of a planet, far away from the deflectors and dilithium crystals.

    Replicate the lifeform.

    Transport it all back to the ship.

    Done.

  140. mikmik says

    joey, you asked this seeming innocent question*:

    Do you believe in anti-discrimination laws?

    The question is, do you?

    .
    .
    .

    *Duh, then why do you want to discriminate against blastocytes and foetus’s? Checkmate, atheists!

  141. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    IIRC, the replicator can’t replicate living things.

    It reproduces plants, flowers, etc. Plus, the holodeck is basically a replicator, just specialized (according to “Ship in a Bottle”). It creates living things, albeit temporarily. Then, there’s “Ethics” wherein the partially use a replicator to remake Worf’s spine.

    I don’t recall why his needed replacement.

    Stabbed through the heart as a cadet during a bar fight over Dom-jot. Young Picard was Captain Kirk, apparently.

    Amphiox – that’s basically the premise of “Unnatural Selection” where Dr. Pulaski is made to age really quickly do to the aggressive immune systems in genetically engineered children they encounter. They send her back through the transporter and bring her back with an “older” version of herself – before she was . . . infected, I guess . . . by the kid.

    PLUS there’s that episode where we meet a duplicate Riker who was created by a transportation accident seven years prior and had been trapped on Alien World XYZ. He was created by a “reflected” beam that bounced back to the planet and materialized a second Riker down there. If the transporter can duplicate living tissue, why does Picard need an artificial heart?!

    Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa – that was awesome

  142. mikmik says

    Can’t you just sort of replicate small sections of the transporter beam at a time? I mean, they’re not ‘alive,’ if you just did small bits like molecules?
    They would come flying out of the replicator in a parallel beam straight into another transporter receiver… Of course, you need to couple the receiver with the transmitter in order to not violate non-locality, but you could replicate the transporter transmitter.

  143. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    okay, ST nerdery from me will stop after this:

    Technology seemed to exist solely as an easy plot point for this week’s drama

    Which, since it’s all imaginary technology, is forgivable IF they at least attempt to make up a reason why the technology failed/can’t be used/ etc.

    The one example of this problem that drives me the most up the wall is most perfectly shown in the ep where Data’s “brother” is first introduced. Early in the episode, some exposition tells that the ship’s computer is like Dick Cheney’s wet dream – that is, it can track everyone on the ship everywhere at all times. Yet they send the 14 year old Mary Sue Cipher to talk to the strong-as-10-men emotionally unstable android. WTF? Just transport him into the brig ffs.

    Add to that the ridiculous spectacle of medical teams running around the ship to help people when there’s absolutely no reason for them to be doing so (except to slow their arrival so someone can die/get injured). It’s like the forget they have transporters.

  144. Illuminata, Genie in the Beer Bottle says

    mikmik @ 183 – that reminds me of the triplicator on Red Dwarf

  145. Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa says

    Phalacrocorax, z Třetího Světa – that was awesome

    Thank you.

    Without feedback, it’s difficult to tell which of my bouts of silliness are still funny outside my head.

  146. Brownian says

    Have young Picard go through a transporter (before his heart problem). SAVE the transporter data on him, including his healthy young heart.

    Preferably after the lengthy cut-scene but before the big Nausicaan boss fight.

  147. Sili says

    IIRC, the replicator can’t replicate living things.

    Do you really think you can get a real Klingon to eat dead gahk?