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May 09 2012

TZT

Who’s afraid of zombies? They go down easy — that last one just took a headshot.

713 comments

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  1. 501
    rajkumar

    Ah well. Gotta go.

    Please don’t cry if I don’t come back, although I might cry, secretly.

    Bye

  2. 502
    John Morales

    rajkumar:

    It’s 9:09 pm here in Melbourne. The night has barely started here…

    Yeah, it has. Sunset was at 5:23 PM.

    (Wrong as usual)

  3. 503
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Rajkumar appears to have trouble understanding Pharyngula is an international blog. I make a comment about local time, and the poor nitwit freaks out.

    Please don’t cry if I don’t come back, although I might cry, secretly.

    If you don’t come back, we will throw a big party. You obviously won’t be invited.

  4. 504
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    Trolls – can’t live with them, can’t banhammer them. (At least not on TZT). What do we do if the rajs become endlessly dull?

    And we need some fresh one’s.

  5. 505
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    What do we do if the rajs become endlessly dull?

    They are already there. Scifi/Shiloh hasn’t had a new thought in over a year.

    And we need some fresh one’s.

    Well, there is txpiper still haunting SciBlogs, and failing to grasp that concept that its inane disbelief in evolution sways nobody who reads its posts, as his points are soundly refuted not only by several of us, but by its own ignorance. And the refutations are out there to show the web the vacuuity of creationism. Not a winning situation for tex.

  6. 506
    John Morales

    theophontes, some fresh one’s what?

    (From context, you refer to endless dullness)

  7. 507
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Nerd

    txpiper still haunting SciBlogs

    A new creationist would be rather good. We just need to find a way to keep them in the cage. The last one jumped the fence and got hit by the banhammer. (I suspect they are not that bright.)

    @ John Morales

    Hah! I gotcha! The context is given by the first word: Trolls.

    (the give-away is the use of “And”) ;)

  8. 508
    John Morales

    theophontes, ah. So we need some fresh one’s trolls.

    (To whom do the current trolls belong?)

  9. 509
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ John Morales

    Tired tardigrade with a stick you are poking?

  10. 510
    FossilFishy (NOBODY, and proud of it!)

    Ah well. Gotta go.

    Wait, what!? No, no please don’t go! There’s still time to get in on the DEAL of the CENTURY! Look, Nigel the Bold’s in, he said he’d send me a cheque! Chigau’s in, or will be next Tuesday! Those folks are, you have to admit, pretty damn smart. They wouldn’t waste their hard earned money on a wild fairy tale, now would they?

    You live in Melbourne you say? I’m only a few hours away, I’d even consider throwing in [rummages around frantically, hesitates, grits his teeth and grabs it] THIS lovely hand vac, hardly used at all, if you only act now! It’s a wet/dry model….it’s got a one amp motor…I’ll deliver it personally, no charge…..shit, you’re not going to bite are you? [Puts vac back in its cradle, pats it affectionately]

    Ah well, it might not be a total loss. Perhaps you’ll ask yourself just why you aren’t compelled by my evidence-free claims while at the same time believing evidence-free claims for a creator.

    Nah, who am I kidding? Special pleading in your life isn’t just for traffic tickets, birthday wishes and coming home late for dinner is it?

  11. 511
    StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @348. Brownian :

    “Ancient Greece is tropical?” -StevoR
    Ancient Greece doesn’t exist any longer. But when it did, it was generally subtropical, and obviously strongly influenced by its proximity to the Mediterranean sea.

    D’oh. Course!

    Sorry I’m shit at typing even when (occassionally) sober. I usually post here late at night my time when I’m tired like, uh, now, so, yes, mea culpa.

    Thanks for that informative comment there – much appreciated.

    Funny I always thought Adelaide, my city which used to be nicknamed “the Athens of the South” shared that cities climate pretty much as well – and we definitely get four seasons a year.

    Odd little factlet btw – the ancient greeks were able to see the Southern Cross, the famous iconic constellation on our flag. They actually used to include it in Centaurus – Alpha and Beta Centauri are its “pointers” – but then precession, the earth’s slow top-like axial wobble took it away from them below the horizon.

    Catch y’all tomorrow, maybe, must.. get ..sleep.

    I haven’t yet read all comments here, sorry, but wanted to briefly say thanks for that, Brownian, cheers!.

  12. 512
    Anthony K

    Wrong about exactly what?

    Rajkumar, please note that whatever point you were trying to make about science with your incredibly wrong description about the discovery of the electron needs to be discarded, because of, y’know, you being so fucking wrong and all.

    Pretending that conversation never happened just makes you a lying sack of phlegm.

  13. 513
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    raj, I notice you’ve started to ignore me. Can’t take it?

    Disregard everything in that article and just tell me what on earth he means by ‘apparent eternity’ and ‘ego less communion’? It looks like these are spiritual concepts he is discussing in that article. Is he trying to merge atheism and spirituality here? Or, more precisely, trying to inject atheism into spirituality? In the end, what has it all got to do with how he understands human consciousness and the brain from a neuroscientist’s standpoint?

    Ok, since you are obviously to fucking stupid to grasp a simple concept I’m going to try one more time. Sorry to have to use caps and bold but nothing else is getting this through your thick skull so…

    He was on an ACID TRIP. The use of ‘apparent eternity’ and ‘ego less communion’ are him explaining the feelings he got ON AN ACID TRIP and trying to relate those to some other idea. These are a product of BEING ON AN ACID TRIP they aren’t “real”. They are the product of the ACID TRIP. But he was trying to be descriptive.

    I have explained that I believe that sipping on Pappy Van Winkle 23 year old is like Heaven. Do I believe there is a heaven? no.

    I am being descriptive. I am relating to something others might get an idea about. With an ACID TRIP these experiences are way more strong and “realistic” to the person tripping. He says (again in the article you started with so I would have hoped you actually read the whole thing)

    I have had sessions, both positive and negative, in which any knowledge that I had ingested a drug had been extinguished, and all memories of my past along with it. Full immersion in the present moment, to this degree, is synonymous with the feeling that one has always been, and will always be, in precisely this condition.

    The ACID TRIP takes over. You feel things and think things that are way the fuck out there. But it is an ACID TRIP a drug.

    And having been on more than a few ACID TRIPS I can relate to the feelings Harris is trying to describe. The ACID TRIP does open you up to different ways of looking at your world. That the the point he was making. But you obviously are too fucking stupid and too hard headily sticking to this notion that scientists are not allow to behave except in some particular way you have defined to grasp this.

    Get it?

    ACID TRIP

    I’M FREAKING OUT

  14. 514
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    yes typos

  15. 515
    Hurin

    Raj

    Disregard everything in that article and just tell me what on earth he means by ‘apparent eternity’ and ‘ego less communion’? It looks like these are spiritual concepts he is discussing in that article. Is he trying to merge atheism and spirituality here? Or, more precisely, trying to inject atheism into spirituality?

    Talking to you is like having a quantum argument. If I ever manage to locate and respond to one of your points I’ve already changed the discussion enough that I’ve lost all information about where it will go next. That isn’t a compliment by the way.

    The bottom line is that I don’t really care what kind of spirituality or ‘ego-less communion’ or ‘apparent eternity’ Harris wants to sell on his own time. I wouldn’t actually go out of my way to find something written by him, because I think he is unusually full of baggage for someone selling themselves as a skeptic.

    I wanted to refute your point about Harris being pseudoscientific; unless Harris is claiming that his ‘ego-less communion’ is scientifically relevent it isn’t pseudoscience. And he isn’t.

    Beyond that, it would be unfortunate if Harris was engaging in pseudoscience, and it would be hypocritical if he were to admonish Chopra for pseudoscience while engaging in it himself, but it would not necessarily invalidate the criticism of Chopra, and it would not invalidated Harris’s published work.

    Moving on.

    Atheism is specifically defined as a lack of belief in gods. There is no specific reason why atheists can’t or shouldn’t be “spiritual” in some sense, and if Harris wants to merge his atheism with some kind of spirituality, then that is his business. He won’t be merging mine with anything I’m not comfortable with. Moreover, it might surprise you, but I have a cousin who is a member of the OTO, who considers himself an atheist, but also is a practitioner of ritual magick. Atheism is a very broad term, without an accompanying purity test.

    As to whether Harris is “injecting atheism into spirituality”, you will have to explain what you mean by that. I’m not seeing how spirituality has been violated by the fact that Sam Harris has warm fuzzies for it.

  16. 516
    Anthony K

    And having been on more than a few ACID TRIPS I can relate to the feelings Harris is trying to describe.

    You know, in RL I’m not nearly the asshole I am here*, though I’m probably about as entertaining (YMMV).

    I’m also a generally pleasant drunk, and the same goes for when I’m on nearly any type of drug (the last thing the surgeon said to me before my appendectomy was “So, we’re going to open you up and see what’s going inside, okay?” and my response as the anesthesia kicked in was “Alright, but if you find anything valuable we go halfsies”), except for mushrooms.

    Those turn me into an actual jerk, with a pressing need to tell everyone, personally, what the hell is wrong with them. The last time I took a trip, I ended up yelling at a group of—very good-natured, in hindsight, as I’m alive to tell the tale—body-builders about how superficial and shallow they were. I think I ended my rant with “You have no souls!“, punctuated with finger jabs, as my friend dragged me away to safety.

    So, raj does have a point about the dangers of drugs.

    *Probably has to do with not being trolled by dimwits all day long, select coworkers excluded.

  17. 517
    Amphiox

    “Bye” is also another one of those english language words that the raja cannot properly define.

  18. 518
    chigau (違う)

    Amphiox
    When are you going to reveal the whole list?

  19. 519
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    Re: 3 seasons

    Ὡραι (Horae) are the Goddesses of the seasons. They themselves are also called The Seasons. There are three: Eunomia, Eirene, and Dike. (Ὡρα (portion of time) also refers to the the personifications of the hours of the day.) And their three sisters (Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos) spin the web of fate.

    It gets kinda complicated. They are also the triple Moon Goddess. (As is Hera.)

    … the moon has three phases and three persons: the new, the Maiden-goddess of the spring, the first period of the year;the full moon, the Nymph-goddess of the summer, the second period; and the old moon, the Crone-goddess of autumn, the last period. -Robert Graves: The Greek Myths, vol 1

    (my emphasis. where did winter go?)

  20. 520
    myeck waters

    As soon as the Sagan estate releases that roll of paper that they used to write out the value of a googol for the “Cosmos” series. It’s the only known piece of paper big enough to hold the list by now.

  21. 521
    'Tis Himself

    Brownian #16

    You know, in RL I’m not nearly the asshole I am here

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

  22. 522
    Anthony K

    Robert Graves: The Greek Myths, vol 1

    My mind just blitzed through a mashup TV show called Mission: Mysteries—Unsolved Impossible is my new band name—which follows a group of highly trained specialists who solve actual mysteries, and the narration was awesome.

  23. 523
    Hurin

    Amphiox

    “Bye” is also another one of those english language words that the raja cannot properly define.

    There sure are a lot of these. I wonder if “dictionary” is one of them?

  24. 524
    Anthony K

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    Dammit. How’s this?

    I haven’t yet been fired from my job.

  25. 525
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    So, raj does have a point about the dangers of drugs.

    Well that argument of his was purely a product of his need to change the subject with the frequency that his arguments are demolished. Which comes out to about 1:1

    Of course drugs can be dangerous. Harris agrees and said so in that article. However he also said that the experiences he got from them were worth the risk. (not arguing with you Brownian but figured I should run my mouth a bit more)

  26. 526
    theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ Brownian

    I haven’t yet been fired from my job.

    That does not say much if you let the boss jump the queue…

  27. 527
    Anthony K

    That does not say much if you let the boss jump the queue…

    There’s kind of a funny story about that. Based on a story I’d told her about a previous workplace, the GF™ mistakenly thought that I’d had a sexual relationship with my boss at some time in the past. For over a year she just took it in stride that I had trouble with boundaries in the workplace and really dug much older women. Not that I’m bothered by either implication (I mean, they’re not totally untrue), it was just funny that she never once said anything about me going to work every day under my former lover.

  28. 528
    Anthony K

    Well that argument of his was purely a product of his need to change the subject with the frequency that his arguments are demolished.

    Yes, the pattern does hold with incredibly predictable regularity.

  29. 529
    Amphiox

    Good gods(or whatever ineffable undefinable equivalent) chigau, do you take me for some kind of mutant? I don’t have nearly enough neurons in my temporal lobes to remember the whole list now! The first half has already been dumped to make room for memories of last Saturday’s lunch! The only place it still exists now is deep in Pharyngula’s electronic archives….

  30. 530
    chigau (違う)

    Amphiox
    Dammit. I was hoping you had a spreadsheet.

  31. 531
    Anthony K

    Have we considered the possibility that scifi is just rajkumar on a bad acid trip?

  32. 532
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    You know, in RL I’m not nearly the asshole I am here

    Funny because in real life I’m a much more miserable prick than I am here.

  33. 533
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Have we considered the possibility that scifi is just rajkumar on a bad acid trip?

    the thought of either of them on an acid trip is terrifying.

  34. 534
    Amphiox

    Sadly, chigau, I lacked the foresight to anticipate that this particular troll would turn out to be so epic back when I started…

  35. 535
    Amphiox

    All is not lost, however, as reasonable approximations of my list likely do exist!

    One of them, I think, is called the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

  36. 536
    Anthony K

    the thought of either of them on an acid trip is terrifying.

    I’m pretty sure they’d have the most hackneyed conversation ever:

    “Dude, Dude, check this out: what if, just listen, what if, god was like, the universe, and the universe was self-aware and intelligent? I mean, who’s to say we can even say what god is? You know what would be awesome right now? Doritos.”
    “What if, what if, what if, what if god was Doritos?”
    “Cool Ranch or Sweet Chili Heat?”
    “Who’s to say god can’t, like, be both?”
    “I’M TOTALLY FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW!”

  37. 537
    mikmik

    theophontes 777 =

    It gets kinda complicated. They are also the triple Moon Goddess. (As is Hera.)

    … the moon has three phases and three persons: the new, the Maiden-goddess of the spring, the first period of the year;the full moon, the Nymph-goddess of the summer, the second period; and the old moon, the Crone-goddess of autumn, the last period. -Robert Graves: The Greek Myths, vol 1

    (my emphasis. where did winter go?)

    That would be the fourth phase – the Enceladus moon, and person – the Cryogenic-goddess of the butt nasty winter, Edmontonius.

  38. 538
    Anthony K

    Oh, it was only a few flakes, mikmik. chigau’s asparagus beds are doing fine, and the trees are blossoming.

    Besides, winter is not officially over until that little pile on Connors Hill just above the Muttart is all gone.

  39. 539
    Anthony K

    Oops, budding, not blossoming.

  40. 540
    feralboy12

    I’m pretty sure they’d have the most hackneyed conversation ever:

    “Dude, Dude, check this out: what if, just listen, what if, god was like, the universe, and the universe was self-aware and intelligent? I mean, who’s to say we can even say what god is? You know what would be awesome right now? Doritos.”

    The 8 Stages of an Acid Trip

  41. 541
    rajkumar

    raj, I notice you’ve started to ignore me. Can’t take it?

    In a way, yes, I couldn’t take it. But the reason is somewhat different from what you might be thinking. You had just started writing extremely lengthy posts. Note that it’s one person (me) answering many people (you). So, I had to avoid your posts in order to avoid a memory overload or else I could have put myself in a position where I was unable to give any reply at all.

    But I’ll to answer this last one from you, as best as I can.

    YOu say:

    He was on an ACID TRIP. The use of ‘apparent eternity’ and ‘ego less communion’ are him explaining the feelings he got ON AN ACID TRIP and trying to relate those to some other idea. These are a product of BEING ON AN ACID TRIP they aren’t “real”. They are the product of the ACID TRIP. But he was trying to be descriptive.

    I say, as I said before many, he only THOUGHT he was tripping on Acid. The truth is he had no idea what shit he was tripping on, since he most probably had acquired that shit from some nickel-and-dime drug dealer. Even if he somehow knew that it was acid (and nothing else) that he took that day, he still didn’t know the quality of it’s molecular structure. It could have been a badly-synthesized molecule. Plus, acid molecules tend to deteriorate quickly if exposed to air. They need special protection. Consider all of these factors, and we have a neuroscientists tripping on …. yes, and he comes down, he writes a few stupid suggestions and in that essay. That’s all.

    Now, the insights he gained on that trip has a sort of secondary importance here. The primary importance is being given to that fact that he had absolutely no ides what made him fly that day.

  42. 542
    Anthony K

    I say, as I said before many, he only THOUGHT he was tripping on Acid. The truth is he had no idea what shit he was tripping on, since he most probably had acquired that shit from some nickel-and-dime drug dealer.

    Not that this isn’t another case of you arguing for the sake of arguing, as this means quite fuck-all, while it’s not unusual for drugs to be cut with other chemicals, you usually do have some idea when they are. Cocaine tastes like cocaine, and has cocaine-like effects. Pot smells like pot and has pot-like effects. Acid, well, acid usually doesn’t taste like much, from what I remember, but it does have acid-like effects. While there are no doubt placebo and nocebo effects at play as well, non-acid doesn’t make you trip out like acid does. That’s why acid is acid.

    Anyways, are you going to continue to argue that these means something about science when you yourself haven’t the faintest fucking clue as to what science is, Mr. The Electron Was An Accident?

  43. 543
    Anthony K

    The primary importance is being given to that fact that he had absolutely no ides what made him fly that day.

    Jesus fuck, but you’re a stupid asshole. Just to clarify, you haven’t taken acid before, have you?

  44. 544
    Amphiox

    I say, as I said before many, he only THOUGHT he was tripping on Acid.

    And this is relevant, how? To the issue of Harris, Chopra and pseudo-science?

    Other than as another pathetic attempt at dishonest deflection, that is.

    Utterly pathetic.

  45. 545
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    More inarticulate and illogical arguments and mental wanking coming tonight I see. Not off to a good start, and not making any cogent points. Typical and pathetic.

  46. 546
    rajkumar

    Cocaine tastes like cocaine, and has cocaine-like effects. Pot smells like pot and has pot-like effects. Acid, well, acid usually doesn’t taste like much, from what I remember, but it does have acid-like effects. While there are no doubt placebo and nocebo effects at play as well, non-acid doesn’t make you trip out like acid does. That’s why acid is acid.

    Yeah. Good points. Which is exactly why I think you should stop your drug activities immediately. It’s one thing to take a drug not knowing what it is and then forgetting about it. But it’s quite another thing to take a drug and then imposing a false personal knowing. No, this is the TRUTH, because I say so. I know I have taken pure Cocaine because I know what cocaine tastes like. What a clown you are, pretending to be a person a science. sorry.

  47. 547
    Amphiox

    So, I had to avoid your posts in order to avoid a memory overload or else I could have put myself in a position where I was unable to give any reply at all.

    Cute. The raja actually thinks it was actually gave even a single example of something that could have been dignified with the appelation of “reply” during this entire time.

  48. 548
    rajkumar

    And this is relevant, how? To the issue of Harris, Chopra and pseudo-science?

    Other than as another pathetic attempt at dishonest deflection, that is.

    Utterly pathetic.

    This is relevant because his whole essay assumes that he knew what drug he had taken that day, and this is the assumption he is passing on to his readers. If this is not ‘pseudo-science’, then what is it? And please don’t say he didn’t mention any science in that essay.

  49. 549
    Anthony K

    Let’s talk about strychnine in the acid.

    You have no idea how to go about finding illegal drugs, do you, rajkumar?

    Despite what you may think, many people who buy illegal drugs find their sources through friends, and stick with dealers that they’ve met through friends. Dealers also have a stake in not killing their customers (especially for less hard drugs like pot, acid, and mushrooms), and so the myth of the street drug adulterated with who-knows-what is more than a little exaggeration.

    raj, is there any subject that you actually do know something about? If so, you should consider sticking to it.

  50. 550
    Anthony K

    Yeah. Good points. Which is exactly why I think you should stop your drug activities immediately. It’s one thing to take a drug not knowing what it is and then forgetting about it. But it’s quite another thing to take a drug and then imposing a false personal knowing. No, this is the TRUTH, because I say so. I know I have taken pure Cocaine because I know what cocaine tastes like. What a clown you are, pretending to be a person a science. sorry.

    The only part of that word salad that’s not gibberish is “a person a science”, which I can only assume is some sort of impugning of my character.

    ARE YOU GOING TO FUCKING ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU WERE 100% WRONG ABOUT THE DISCOVERY OF THE ELECTRON, OR ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP EVADING LIKE THE DISHONEST LITTLE FUCKING COWARDLY SHIT YOU ARE?

  51. 551
    Anthony K

    I know I have taken pure Cocaine because I know what cocaine tastes like.

    Do you know what salt tastes like?

    How do you know?

  52. 552
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    More non-sequiturs and idiocy from Rajkumar. Typical, pathetic bullshit, showing no knowledge of that of which it pretends to speak.

  53. 553
    rajkumar

    Do you know what salt tastes like?

    How do you know?

    I know what salt tastes like, but I can’t give an estimate about it’s purity just by tasting or smelling it. Suppose I give you some salt to taste, and the salt has been mixed with LSD. Would you be able to tell that just by tasting it? Of course not. Only a few hours later when your eyes expand to the size of saucers … would you be able to tell there was something ELSE in the salt. That’s the point.

  54. 554
    Amphiox

    If this is not ‘pseudo-science’, then what is it?

    Already discussed, dishonestly evasive one.

    And please don’t say he didn’t mention any science in that essay.

    And why not, since that is the single most relevant parameter to be considered.

    The raja doesn’t get to be entitled to be the arbiter of what can and cannot be mentioned.

    Further pitiful dishonest attempts at deflection from the plain fact that the raja’s argument is shot to hell, and was from the moment it was uttered.

    Puerile hypocrisy.

  55. 555
    Amphiox

    That’s the point.

    No that is not the point. At least not any point worth making.

    Yet more pitiful dishonest deflection.

    Utterly pathetic.

  56. 556
    Anthony K

    Only a few hours later when your eyes expand to the size of saucers … would you be able to tell there was something ELSE in the salt. That’s the point.

    So, with experience in the taste of salt, and the effects of it, you’re saying I could tell that it had been cut with something else by the unexpected effects.

    Exactly.

  57. 557
    rajkumar

    So, with experience in the taste of salt, and the effects of it, you’re saying I could tell that it had been cut with something else by the unexpected effects.

    Exactly.

    No sure what with experience in the taste of salt means…

    You just get in a sort of heavenly mood a couple of hours after ingesting the salt. Your pupils dilate, the walls start breathing, colour become vivid, you become aware of (some of) your thinking processes, You start seeing things completely differently, and so and so forth. And this is why you can sort of tell the salt had been cut with something else, because pure salt (cooking salt) doesn’t give you these effects. Simple. Why make it sound like A C Grayling’s poetic philosophy?

  58. 558
    Amphiox

    No sure what with experience in the taste of salt means…

    Not sure what ANYTHING means, it would appear.

  59. 559
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    It appears rajkumar still doesn’t have a cogent point. Silence would be its best option. Consolidate its thoughts to make them cogent and coherent. A year or so off-line would help.

  60. 560
    Anthony K

    No sure what with experience in the taste of salt means…

    Salt, motherfucker, do you know what it tastes like?!

    Jesus Christ, it’s like arguing with a puddle. Fuck off, you stupid shit.

    And this is why you can sort of tell the salt had been cut with something else, because pure salt (cooking salt) doesn’t give you these effects. Simple. Why make it sound like A C Grayling’s poetic philosophy?

    Because, you fucking imbecile, this was my point all along. You claim it could be cut with [big dramatic pause] AnYtHiNg, and I said,

    Cocaine tastes like cocaine, and has cocaine-like effects. Pot smells like pot and has pot-like effects. Acid, well, acid usually doesn’t taste like much, from what I remember, but it does have acid-like effects. While there are no doubt placebo and nocebo effects at play as well, non-acid doesn’t make you trip out like acid does. That’s why acid is acid.

    See? X doesn’t give you the effects of X, where X could be salt, and X could be acid?

    Anyway, conversing with you is a fucking waste of time, because you know nothing, you lie and you evade and you’re a smug shit about it all.

    And I just rolled a joint (which could be something completely different yet have the effects of marijuana and I would never know!) and I’m off to the pub to have some beer and smoke it.

  61. 561
    Anthony K

    Ugh, X gives you the effects of X, and non X doesn’t give you the effects of X

    Anyway, I’m off. Bye everyone, and fuck you rajkumar, you dishonest shit.

    Remember how the discovery of electrons was exactly the opposite of how you thought, because you’re a fucking dimwit who doesn’t know anything?

  62. 562
    Amphiox

    Remember how the discovery of electrons was exactly the opposite of how you thought, because you’re a fucking dimwit who doesn’t know anything?

    “Remember how X was exactly the opposite of what you posted, because you’re a fucking dimwit who doesn’t know anything and is too dishonest to acknowledge that.”

    Wherein X = every single thing the raja has ever posted in its entire time on this blog.

    The DEFINITIVE definition of raja’s half of this thread.

  63. 563
    rajkumar

    And I just rolled a joint (which could be something completely different yet have the effects of marijuana and I would never know!) and I’m off to the pub to have some beer and smoke it.

    Yes. It could be. But the good news is, eating the wrong kind of magic mushrooms can easily kill you, but smoking the wrong kind of MJ will only give you a sore throat at most. Happened to me once. I even got stoned for a few second, but then I saw the colour of the smoke, and came back to my senses immediately. It was a placebo effect I guess.

  64. 564
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Rajkumar, you need to link every claim you make. For example, discovery of electron and the references linked therein. Linked using [a href = "url of linked page copied from the browser header"]text describing the link[/a] where [=< and ]=>. Not hard to do. Even you could do it with practice of a year or so….

  65. 565
    rajkumar

    Rajkumar, you need to link every claim you make. For example, discovery of electron and the references linked therein. Linked using [a href = "url of linked page copied from the browser header"]text describing the link[/a] where [=. Not hard to do. Even you could do it with practice of a year or so….

    ah well, this is your practice, not mine. From what I have seen so far, you absolutely hate explaining anything in your own words … I don’t know why. Maybe you got your phd by following a steady course which involved lots of incidence of plagiarisms.

  66. 566
    mikmik

    Only a few hours later when your eyes expand to the size of saucers …

    You have not done acid/LSD, and you have no idea WTF it is like. There is no way you could mistake it for anything else, there is no way that you could think you are high if you got ripped off, and there is no way it takes a few fucking hours to take effect. It is diluted and drops are placed on pieces of paper(blotter – Purple Dragon, ahhhh) that I even accidentally put one through the washing machine, so exposure to oxygen, and more, does not degrade it for at least weeks at a time, so there goes another of your red herring bullshit conjecture arguments…
    Even the first time I took it(before my math final, FFS!) I knew it wasn’t working when I got a bad microdot, let alone placeboing out into space having conversations with god…
    To which, your whole argument, even if your naive speculations had any weight, would in no fucking way mean anything even slightly relevant about spiritual planes or gaga that we already don’t know about – which is that they are BS, BTW – but, in any event, as has been prolifically pointed out already, it doesn’t matter what you try to say or argue or use for examples, you are always wrong!
    Every time you get taken to the cleaners is another data point for your credibility, so whatever use you may think these wild goose chases pose, they only serve to make you look less and less likely to ever have been capable of rational thought, let alone now.
    Your Honor, the prosecution would like a 15 minute recess to slam my head against a wall, thank you.

  67. 567
    Anthony K

    Yeah. Implying Nerd got his PhD through plagiarism. That’s gonna go over well.

    Rajkumar, why do you even come here?

  68. 568
    mikmik

    And the number one most stupid remark made on a science blog regarding the need for citations……. “ah well, this is your practice, not mine.”

  69. 569
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    ah well, this is your practice, not mine.

    If you are going to be seen as anything other than a liar and bullshitter here, you will start doing it. Or shut the fuck up.

    Oh, and my dissertation is abstacted here. Had to do with chemstry sometime in the ’70s. All original research, unlike you, with nothing but mental masturbation. You have nothing to be proud of.

  70. 570
    rajkumar

    You have not done acid/LSD, and you have no idea WTF it is like. There is no way you could mistake it for anything else, there is no way that you could think you are high if you got ripped off, and there is no way it takes a few fucking hours to take effect. It is diluted and drops are placed on pieces of paper(blotter – Purple Dragon, ahhhh) that I even accidentally put one through the washing machine, so exposure to oxygen, and more, does not degrade it for at least weeks at a time, so there goes another of your red herring bullshit conjecture arguments…

    Yes, you can tell whether what you have taken is LSD or something else, given if you are an experienced tripper. But you still wouldn’t be able to tell how much of LSD you have taken, how pure it was, and how accurately it was synthesized… Talking about cutting LSD with something else, I think nobody would be able to sort out pure LSD from a mix of LSD+LSA+very little MDA??? Yes, and it does take a few hours to reach the ‘peak’, Full Effects if you will. The problem is, when you buy blotters from a junkie, you have absolutely no idea how old those blotters are, or how old the acid is in which they were dunked. Which means, the acid you are buying could already have enough exposure to oxygen to compromise its molecular integrity. In the end, the point is, you could never really know what you are getting when you buy drugs illegally. All boils down to ‘assumptions’.

  71. 571
    Cipher

    rajkumar, it’s seriously so so sad that you’re still posting here.

  72. 572
    John Morales

    rajkumar, LSD is hardly the only entheogen, O ignoramus.

    (And it’s not what it is, it’s what it does in context, whatever it may be)

  73. 573
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Rajkumar, entheogen in Wiki. Mescaline is shown, not LSD. I recognized it immediately, since I did a report on it back in university. But many other substances are also listed. This research makes the difference between OPINION from mental masturbators like yourself, and folks engaged in serious fact-based discussion, which isn’t you. Take your mental masturbation on the road. We aren’t interested in your blather.

  74. 574
    Amphiox

    raja in a nutshell:

    Blahblah*hypocrisy*fapfap*dishonesty*blahblah*bigotrry*fapfap
    Fapfap*deflection*blahblahblah*stupidity*fapfap*arrogance*blahblah
    blahblah*maliciousness*fapfapfapWANKWANKFAPFAPFAP.

    Bored now.

  75. 575
    mikmik

    (Shite, I hate not having a Merck Index)
    Raj, whatever! – you have an important point to make?
    I don’t mind talking about chemistry. Speaking to the height of irony, I took Honours Chem as my major at university with the intention of learning how to make LSD and getting to glassware and reactants and solvents etc to make all drugs!
    But, who cares? So what if strychnine is used to potentiate acid(I’ve never heard of adding lsa, FFS, but who knows now a days), or water, or fairy dust, or antihistamine?

    But before we pretend to be wizards, is this matter relevant to anything? I see some question about this Harris guy’s reported experience of ‘like a spiritual feeling’ stuff, and now that I’ve got time, I’ll try to catch up, but…BUT, this idea of not citing papers and research and sources as just some personal preference of talking science, this is problematic, you understand that, don’t you? ‘Cause now, I not only doubt that you’ve ever been very involved, if at all, with illicit drugs, I seriously doubt you’ve ever been formally involved with scientific understanding and methodology!

    In fact, claiming that you don’t really need to reference sources in order to give validity to your opinion is not just a badly egregious error when applied to scientific debate, it is a (mind bogglingly)fucking stupid thing to say in any conceivable situation in which your statements may be questioned!!! Good god, it’s common sense, man!

    Now, I must go read about the photoelectric effect, or whatever this electron nonsense is about that you won’t address.

  76. 576
    mikmik

    Oh, yeah, there’s no fucking way it takes 3 hours to get intended effects, no fucking way. It only takes a few hundred thousand molecules through the barrier, and if you are still lucid after 30 – 40 minutes, you got ripped off.

  77. 577
    mikmik

    Fuck, blood – brain, that barrier.

  78. 578
    John Morales

    mikmik, rajkumar does have a point, irrelevant though it may be to the issue at hand: much of what is sold as acid, ain’t.

    (Harder to go wrong with mushies)

  79. 579
    rajkumar

    In fact, claiming that you don’t really need to reference sources in order to give validity to your opinion is not just a badly egregious error when applied to scientific debate, it is a (mind bogglingly)fucking stupid thing to say in any conceivable situation in which your statements may be questioned!!! Good god, it’s common sense, man!

    Scientific debate? I don’t think we are having a scientific debate here. But if you insist it is indeed a scientific debate, at least intended to be a scientific debate from your end, all you have to do is look at your own posts, then move on to Brownian’s posts then finally to Nerd’s posts. After going through all these posts, if you still find yourself in a position where you find yourself unable to convince yourself that all of these posts belong to Jokes.com, then I will be forced to assume that you have made illegal drugs a part of your everyday life. That you can’t live without them, even when you chat on a blog. That’s all.

  80. 580
    John Morales

    rajkumar:

    After going through all these posts, if you still find yourself in a position where you find yourself unable to convince yourself that all of these posts belong to Jokes.com, then I will be forced to assume that you have made illegal drugs a part of your everyday life. That you can’t live without them, even when you chat on a blog. That’s all.

    Such stupidity!

    An argument from irrelevance, a false inference, and an ignorant opinion all in one.

    (Your comments might belong in Jokes.com, but if so, only in the “clueless unintentional humour” section)

  81. 581
    Cipher

    rajkumar, I’m forced to conclude that once again you have failed to read the actual post you are ostensibly responding to.

  82. 582
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Of course, rajkumar has no idea of what we said. That would require it to read, to think, and to be knowledgeable beyond his mental wanking. And there is no sign it is well read, knowledgeable, or cogent. Just egotistical and manic, like any liberturd. Thinks it knows all and is the smartest thing on the planet. So not, in rajkumar’s case, not even up to normal cogency.

  83. 583
    John Morales

    … if you still find yourself in a position where you find yourself unable to convince yourself …

    (Quoted separately, since it’s such a concentration of epistemic stupidity)

  84. 584
    rajkumar

    rajkumar, I’m forced to conclude that once again you have failed to read the actual post you are ostensibly responding to.

    I can understand that. But guess you failed to get my point, which is, I would have given a lot of references and citations IF I was involved in an actual scientific debate.

  85. 585
    Amphiox

    Shorter, more accurate raja:

    fapfapfap*arrogance*blahblah*hypocrisy*fapfap*mendacity*blahblah
    fapfapWANKWANKBLAHBLAHWANKFAPWANKFAPFAP.

    Bored now.

  86. 586
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Now,Amphiox, don’t exaggerate rajkumar’s cogency. FAPLIESFAPBULLSHITFAPFAPFAPNONSEQUITORFAPIGNORANCEFAPIRRELEVANCYFAPFAPFAP.

    Bored from its first inane, evidenceless, and irrelevant post.

  87. 587
    John Morales

    rajkumar:

    But guess you failed to get my point, which is, I would have given a lot of references and citations IF I was involved in an actual scientific debate.

    Imagining you engaged “in an actual scientific debate” is akin to imagining a goldfish competing in the Tour de France.

    (BTW, your incompetence at pretty much any cognitive discipline is both egregious and ubiquitous; that should be ‘were’, not ‘was’ — you’re attempting to employ the subjunctive mood)

  88. 588
    rajkumar

    Such stupidity!

    And I guess you always forget to place a little TM on the upper right hand corner. If only writing these words could actually turn you into a smart person….

  89. 589
    Cipher

    But guess you failed to get my point, which is, I would have given a lot of references and citations IF I was involved in an actual scientific debate.

    Except that the rest of the post you are ostensibly responding to addressed the situation of not being in an actual scientific debate.

  90. 590
    John Morales

    rajkumar:

    And I guess you always forget to place a little TM on the upper right hand corner. If only writing these words could actually turn you into a smart person….

    Grammatical use of ellipsis is yet another of those competencies to which you can at most aspire, I see.

    (Such stupidity!)

    I note in passing that the rajkumar imagines that my locution is trademarked, as if I were the first to employ it* and had applied and been granted such (Such stupidity!™).

    (Like kicking a puppy, is addressing the rajkumar)

    * Hell, to be generous, perhaps I am. It’s not like I’ve adopted it, it just falls naturally from observation of the specimen.

  91. 591
    Nerd of Redhead, Dances OM Trolls

    Gee, real people of honesty and integrity will supply links to evidence when questioned. Those lacking honesty and integrity simply cannot or will not provide said evidence. Lurkers, Rajkumar will not link to evidence to back up its claims. So, you know how much honesty and integrity Rajkumar has, essentially none. Treat everything it says with utmost skepticism. And it typically isn’t right, as history has shown. Poke it with a stick from a distance.

  92. 592
    mikmik

    But guess you failed to get my point, which is, I would have given a lot of references and citations IF I was involved in an actual scientific debate.

    Circular reasoning fallacy.

    Scientific debate? I don’t think we are having a scientific debate here. But if you insist it is indeed a scientific debate, at least intended to be a scientific debate from your end,

    Cherry picking, straw man.

    Now, about the electrons.

    John Morales

    mikmik, rajkumar does have a point, irrelevant though it may be to the issue at hand: much of what is sold as acid, ain’t.

    Yeah, I can definitely see that these days. I haven’t dropped sid since about 1983, but street stuff is scary business now. But, back then, I think strychnine was added, and antihistamines were passed off as mescaline, of all things.
    ‘Shrooms, yeah, hard to grow, though, hard to get uncontaminated fish poop, lol! Seen it done, though.

  93. 593
    John Morales

    PS:

    If only writing these words could actually turn you into a smart person….

    I’m but a little above average, but compared to you…

    (“In the Country of the Blind the One-Eyed Man is King”)

  94. 594
    Amphiox

    (Like kicking a puppy, is addressing the rajkumar)

    Puppies are smarter, nicer, and more honest.

  95. 595
    John Morales

    Amphiox, yes.

    Let me clarify: its difficulty and its unfairness is alike.

    (Alternatively, in that sphere, the rajkumar is like unto a puppy in terms of prowess)

  96. 596
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I’m pretty sure they’d have the most hackneyed conversation ever:

    Exactly, terrifying.

    Been there done that. No time for amateurs.

  97. 597
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    I say, as I said before many, he only THOUGHT he was tripping on Acid. The truth is he had no idea what shit he was tripping on, since he most probably had acquired that shit from some nickel-and-dime drug dealer

    Congrats on another goal post shift.

    You really are a despicable piece of shit.

    Your point originally was about Harris’ experience with the trip not about the substance he tripped on.

    You are a dishonest asshole for shifting like this.

  98. 598
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Now, the insights he gained on that trip has a sort of secondary importance here. The primary importance is being given to that fact that he had absolutely no ides what made him fly that day.

    No sorry that’s not what this conversation was originally about.

    You sir are a lying sack of shit.

    How do you live with yourself?

  99. 599
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Yeah. Good points. Which is exactly why I think you should stop your drug activities immediately. It’s one thing to take a drug not knowing what it is and then forgetting about it. But it’s quite another thing to take a drug and then imposing a false personal knowing. No, this is the TRUTH, because I say so. I know I have taken pure Cocaine because I know what cocaine tastes like. What a clown you are, pretending to be a person a science. sorry.

    shift
    shift
    shift
    shift

  100. 600
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    This is relevant because his whole essay assumes that he knew what drug he had taken that day, and this is the assumption he is passing on to his readers. If this is not ‘pseudo-science’, then what is it? And please don’t say he didn’t mention any science in that essay

    Again shifting the goalposts.

    You may be running down this road now but that was not the original point you were trying, and failing, to make.

    Despite the fact you are somewhat being enabled on this new path it doesn’t change the fact that you’ve shifted the topic here because you couldn’t defend the original point you were trying to make.

    and this new point is completely nonsense in light of the original point.

  101. 601
    rajkumar

    Congrats on another goal post shift.

    You really are a despicable piece of shit.

    Your point originally was about Harris’ experience with the trip not about the substance he tripped on.

    You are a dishonest asshole for shifting like this.

    Yes. It was. And it still is. This is why I wouldn’t exactly call it shifting the goalposts. It’s more like adding more goalposts.

  102. 602
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Yes. It was. And it still is. This is why I wouldn’t exactly call it shifting the goalposts. It’s more like adding more goalposts.

    No, it’s just you completely abandoning your original point because you have conceded that it had no merit.

  103. 603
    Amphiox

    The continuing saga of raja the intellectually dishonest:

    fapfapblahLIESLIESLIESblahblahLAMEJUSTIFICATIONfapblahLIESLIESLIES

    Pathetic.

  104. 604
    rajkumar

    No, it’s just you completely abandoning your original point because you have conceded that it had no merit.

    You are the one who can’t let go of Harris. I was just discussing some God-related concepts. He is a LSD junkie, and LSD junkies are notorious for doing weird shit from time to time. Some tried to fly, some thought the Sun was the moon so it was OK for them to stare at it for 10 minutes only to go blind afterwards, and some thought their urine was pure liquid gold and so tried to preserve it in a jar, and so on. So, hardly a surprise what Harris has written. Just because he is a neuroscientist doesn’t mean he won’t screw up his mind through these psychotropic trips.

  105. 605
    Amphiox

    (In terms of intellectual dishonesty, adding goalposts and shifting goalposts are exactly the same thing)

    And naturally, no acknowledgement of the continuous series of own-goals.

    Pitiful.

  106. 606
    Amphiox

    You are the one who can’t let go of Harris. I was just discussing some God-related concepts.

    FAPFAP*transparent lie*FAPFAP

    He is a LSD junkie, and LSD junkies are notorious for doing weird shit from time to time

    BLAHBLAH*malicious slander*BLAHBLAH*dishonest exaggeration*BLAH

    Just because he is a neuroscientist doesn’t mean he won’t screw up his mind through these psychotropic trips

    WANKWANK*irrelevant deflection*WANKWANK

    Pathetic.

  107. 607
    Ichthyic

    fapfapblahLIESLIESLIESblahblahLAMEJUSTIFICATIONfapblahLIESLIESLIES

    shortened=fapwit

    which is why I like the term so much.

    it perfectly describes the raja.

    fapwit.

  108. 608
    rajkumar

    I am tired., so I am going. It’s Saturday here.

    Bye.

    No more discussions on Harris from me from this point forward….

  109. 609
    Ichthyic

    harrumble.

    as if anyone cares.

  110. 610
    Amphiox

    No more discussions on Harris from me from this point forward….

    3:1 odds for this being yet another lie.

  111. 611
    chigau (違う)

    夜のこの時間は好きじゃない。
    本当にそれを大嫌いです。

  112. 612
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    You are the one who can’t let go of Harris.

    You brought him up, I just corrected your completely full of shit assertions and lies.

    You lying sack of shit.

    I was just discussing some God-related concepts.

    Again you lie. You said one of our “prophets” was a hypocrite for being critical of Chopra. Notions I completely demolished. You then went through a rapid fire changing of the subject so as to distance yourself from each of idiotic arguments. And had each of those demolished as fast as you could bring them up.

    You lying sack of shit.

    He is a LSD junkie, and LSD junkies are notorious for doing weird shit from time to time.

    LSD junkie huh? LSD is not considered addictive. Using the term junkie is a commonly place word to describe someone who has no control over their desire to use a drug. And so that you don’t weasel out of it, this is why you used it too, thinking you could get away with it. Well you can’t.

    So once again, at the very most you are just fucking wrong and haven’t done your research or most likely are just plain making shit up again.

    Lying sack of shit.

    Some tried to fly, some thought the Sun was the moon so it was OK for them to stare at it for 10 minutes only to go blind afterwards, and some thought their urine was pure liquid gold and so tried to preserve it in a jar, and so on.

    Some become PhD holding neuroscientists, write popular books with huge sales numbers and are sought after speakers.

    Some people who believe in nonsense like yourself become lying sacks of shit in order to try and support their failed world view. You being a prime example.

    Lying sack of shit.

    So, hardly a surprise what Harris has written. Just because he is a neuroscientist doesn’t mean he won’t screw up his mind through these psychotropic trips.

    Since your points have all been demolished this point is complete nonsense. It’s just you trying to save face before you run away again like a scolded dog with its tail between its legs.

    Lying sack of shit.

  113. 613
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    No more discussions on Harris from me from this point forward….

    You just can’t help being a dishonest piece of shit can you? The reason I keep destroying your lame ass arguments isn’t because I have some desire to defend Harris, it’s because your arguments were full of shit. So don’t try and turn this around.

    How about instead of you not discussing Harris again, you just stop making stupid and / or lying comments?

    That would be good.

    But I bet you can’t because at heart you are a lying sack of shit.

  114. 614
    jonmilne

    You know, if this thread, as well as many others on Pharyngula and FTB in general have taught me anything, it’s that generally it’s actualy more fun to debate morals and actions that people take because of their God belief than it is to debate the actual existence of God.

    Oh, don’t get me wrong: when scifi and raj have been spouting their utterly bullshit justifications for what they believe their object of worship resembles, the people on this thread who possess sanity (muchos gracias to Nerd, chigau, fossilfishy, stevor, rev bigdumbchimp, brownian, tis himself, amphiox and others I may have missed for your valiant efforts during this time) have managed to endlessly pwn those two idiots repeatedly for their ridiculous gaps in understanding the scientific process and how it works.

    But to me, I find more fun in deconstructing these guys for their frankly despicable moral outlooks and the actions they take during their daily lives.

    Allow me to give you an example: I’ve debated with theists for a while now, especially about morality and ethics, and one particular moron I’ve debated with has a habit of getting really indignant when I talk about how, when I exercise my compassion and empathy and decisions of how to go about my life, I base my decisions on “secular rational logic” and while he certainly hasn’t been the first or last person I’ve ever had this issue with, he stands out as the most notable of those who posited the whole “How can you possibly do actions without God’s guidance and how on earth do you know that secular and scientific logic is the most RATIONAL?!” bollocks.

    One of the things I constantly always hit him with is a line from Tim Minchin’s Storm that I feel gets overlooked a tad behind the two most obvious ones about every discovery turning out not to be magic and the difference between how science and faith operates, and it’s this:

    “I resisted the urge to ask her if knowledge is so loose weave of the morning when deciding to leave her apartment by the front door… or the window on her second floor.”

    And when he also complained about “how could we POSSIBLY define what secular positions are the rational ones and how does a rational position necessitate it being secular?”, I just rolled my eyes and pointed out that that was what stuff like politics, science, economics, sports and business management amongst others were all for: to discuss secular positions and find out which ones are the most rational ones to take. (so for example, a sports team may employ one set of tactics for a particular match they play, but if they lose then the coaches of the team must consider alternative tactics for the next game. And a similar example would be if a business makes a loss in one year and has to decide how they’ll make a profit in the next year).

    And this is the thing: Raj, Scifi, and all these other people who profess to have claims that supernatural beings exist and are worthy of worship? They don’t actually truly buy what they’re selling. Think about it, if they truly believe that spirituality somehow provides a better alternative than secularism, then why don’t they do as Minchin implies? Don’t bother using the front door, they should chuck themselves out of their upstairs windows and use their DIVINE FAITH POWERS OMG to get their “God” to catch them.

    Hell, pretty much any time they use technology like the internet or television or even microphones during these religious rallies detracts from any credibility their faith in spirituality holds. If they truly bought into spirituality as being the most reliable way of going about their lives, why the hell are all these religious cultists on Pharyngula and FTB even using KEYBOARDS in order to broadcast their God claims? Can’t they just ask their God to bestow them with spiritual powers so that they can telepathically give us their God claims? Or hell, why don’t they do prayers that God will show himself so that everyone on Earth undisputedly understands that their God does indeed exists?

    Face it Godbots, you are just as prone to treating secular methods as the best way of going about your life as the rest of us. When you’re in some serious emergency trouble, you’re not going to be turning to prayer to help you, the vast majority of you will be calling 911/999/other equivalent emergency services number. You use phones, you drive or use public transport, and you’re using the internet right now to read this. Your claims about spirituality being the most reliable method to use are getting more retarded by the second.

    And protest all you like about how morality can’t possibly be anything other than God derived, but in the event that you do in fact open your mind and analyse the evidence or lack thereof honestly and end up becoming an atheist, I seriously doubt that the vast majority of you will start going around shooting people with relentless abandon because you don’t think there’s such thing as morality anymore. Au contraire, as many of us former religious-folks-turned-atheists can happily attest, you’ll still have morality, only you’ll have learnt not to base it on spiritual gobbledy-gook and will actually be applying fully secular rational logic to your life.

  115. 615
    mikmik

    then I will be forced to assume that you have made illegal drugs a part of your everyday life. That you can’t live without them, even when you chat on a blog. That’s all.

    You are so wrong, you are almost right!!! If you meant caffeine and nicotine, you would be.
    Y’know, I’m somewhat of an expert on addiction, and the main signature, psychologically, is denial, and all the attendant lying and evasions that are used to protect the psyche from reality. Curiously, projection is also prominent, which I didn’t quite put together until just now. I have been an active addict, yes – a binge type, though, but not for many moons now, about 15 or 16 I suppose.

    Now, this is fucking irony at it’s most delicious, the fact that you detest addiction, shown by using it as an insult, yet at the same time displaying many surefire characteristics of the disease! But wait, it gets better – I now see that religion has almost all the hallmarks!

    noun
    the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

    I’ll bet you dollars to doughnuts that the ‘cure rate’ is the same for religion as it is for alcoholism, and not only that, the main reason I can’t stand most 12 step meetings is the presence of so many religio-droids preaching that only god/higher power cans save us, that belief in god/higher power/lightbulbs/anything but not lightbulbs, cough wheeze, is absolutely necessary! FFS!!

    This is too long already, but I wish to thank you, rajkumar, for inspiring an image that will give me no amount of anything but sheer hilarity and perspective; that of seeing chapel services and churches as raves and crack houses, yeah, amen brother, LMFAO!

  116. 616
    jonmilne

    By the way, for the benefit of scifi and raj, here is exactly how the scientific process works:

    1) make an observation and create a hypothesis.
    2) experiment and repeat it constantly.
    3) submit for peer review.
    4) revise your claim.
    5) retest it to resubmit it with a 10% chance of being published.
    6) if published, other scientists become vultures, and they (hoping to disprove) analyze your results for years, seeing if they get inconsistent results.
    7) many years later, after many trials, the scientific community may accept it.
    8) finally, it becomes a theory.

    Now tell me raj and scifi, since when has any of your “God” claims even made it past STAGE 1 of this process?

  117. 617
    Grumps

    @rajkumar

    Please stop using the term “junkie” (please note I’m starting out all polite like.. it probably won’t last). Its only use is to group together a variety of people who have addiction problems and to allow you and others like you to dismiss or denigrate them.

    I am a struggling alcoholic. Just starting on the second half-bottle of vodka of what might well turn into a weekend long binge. I am honest and open about my situation, but call me “an alky” and I’ll FUCKING HAVE YOU you ridiculous, deluded fuck! (I was right, it didn’t).

  118. 618
    mikmik

    Yeah, jarkumar, I want to add that junkie even more specifically means heroin addict; junk is slang for heroin, so quit horsing around.

    Hmmmm. Next time someone at a meeting dribbles out “God didn’t make any junk,” I’ll jump up and yell. “Then what the fuck am I doing here?”

  119. 619
    myeck waters

    I see what you did there, mikmik.

  120. 620
    Anthony K

    +1 mikmik.

    [Neighs.]

  121. 621
    rajkumar

    Winter in Southern Hemisphere.

  122. 622
    rajkumar

    Rev, Can I interest you in a discussion on magic mushrooms?

  123. 623
    Ingdigo Jump

    With you? My prediction is that you could interest him but not follow through with the promise of interest.

  124. 624
    Ichthyic

    Winter in Southern Hemisphere.

    how unfortunate we occupy the same hemisphere.

    any chance of you moving north?

  125. 625
    Ichthyic

    Y’know, I’m somewhat of an expert on addiction, and the main signature, psychologically, is denial, and all the attendant lying and evasions that are used to protect the psyche from reality.

    now why doesn’t it surprise me that someone with an extreme authoritarian personality like yourself is an “expert” on addictive behavior…

    it’s what you do constantly: shield your self-made mental constructs from reality; live in denial that they have been, literally, shattered repeatedly…

    you’re a case on point of someone living in denial.

    sad, pathetic fapwit

  126. 626
    Ichthyic

    holy crap, apologies mikmik, for some reason I thought it was raja going off on how he thought he was an expert on addiction, and it was just so ironic to me I lept on it.

    I blame lack of coffee.

  127. 627
    rajkumar

    With you? My prediction is that you could interest him but not follow through with the promise of interest.

    Maybe. Maybe because I could never get hold of magic mushrooms, you know. There is a place here about 20 km East of Melbourne called Dandenong Ranges. It’s a little shire nestled in low rising hills and some very tall mountains called mountain ash. People say this is the time when those little magic mushrooms start to sprout all over the place there. They say they start to sprout right after the first rain of winter … which is falling as we speak.

  128. 628
    rajkumar

    oPPS. SORRY

    very tall mountains

    SHOULD READ

    very tall trees

  129. 629
    rajkumar

    Well, Rev?

  130. 630
    Ingdigo Jump

    Try it again I don’t think he heard you. Use caps lock, maybe he’s in the other room!

  131. 631
    rajkumar

    I have heard lots of people saying how Magic Mushrooms can give you a sublime experience of the Divine. PLus, magic mushrooms are gentle on the mind too, and are no where near as psychotropic as LSD or Peyote. They give you a very gentle high, that has not many side effects, and that can end in a meeting with the creator, which leaves with a golden after-glow for weeks… Do you have any thoughts on this?

  132. 632
    rajkumar

    which leaves you with a golden after-glow

  133. 633
    rajkumar

    REV WHERE ARE YOU?

  134. 634
    Ingdigo Jump

    It’d be funny if we weren’t actually sure you were that dumb

  135. 635
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    good grief

    you just do not get it

  136. 636
    rajkumar

    It’d be funny if we weren’t actually sure you were that dumb

    You means Me?

  137. 637
    Grumps

    @ Rajkumar

    Not Rev here, but you can interest me in a discussion on psilocybin and magic mushrooms. What do you want to know?

    I can tell you that as psychedelics go it’s one of the best.. if you get it right. But it can also give you a really bad trip if you’re casual with it. Also tolerance builds up really quick… and there’s all sorts of other toxins in those shrooms so if you’re downing a hundred or so a day for a week or two it will seriously fuck you up physically… (that was 30 years ago, so whatever, any other questions?)

    BTW, the Liberty Cap http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybe_semilanceata

    which is the shroom I know shows up in the autumn here in the UK. Late September to November, before the first frosts.

    Also it helps to have a friend to show you what you’re looking for… aah, Brian, a true friend.

  138. 638
    Ingdigo Jump

    No I mean the other idiot sitting behind you.

  139. 639
    rajkumar

    No I mean the other idiot sitting behind you.

    And you sound strangely annoyed for a person who is organizing his/her wedding. Why? Shouldn’t you be anticipated the great union in happy excitement with your future better half?

  140. 640
    rajkumar

    I can tell you that as psychedelics go it’s one of the best.. if you get it right. But it can also give you a really bad trip if you’re casual with it. Also tolerance builds up really quick… and there’s all sorts of other toxins in those shrooms so if you’re downing a hundred or so a day for a week or two it will seriously fuck you up physically… (that was 30 years ago, so whatever, any other questions?)

    Yeah. And I guess even common edible mushrooms would seriously fuck you up if you were downing hundred or so everyday for a week. Those big ones with 3 to 5 inch diameter. Anyways, I was actually interested in how some people report experiencing God on magic mushrooms. Any thoughts on that?

  141. 641
    Grumps

    Oh fuck, euphoric recall… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uolB2fjrk6E

  142. 642
    Ingdigo Jump

    And you sound strangely annoyed for a person who is organizing his/her wedding. Why? Shouldn’t you be anticipated the great union in happy excitement with your future better half?

    My god you’re an idiot

  143. 643
    Anthony K

    was actually interested in how some people report experiencing God on magic mushrooms.

    Been there, done that, fuck you.

    Besides, you can’t verify the the dose, so y’know, that bullshit, right rajkumquat?

  144. 644
    Ichthyic

    They say they start to sprout right after the first rain of winter … which is falling as we speak.

    excellent idea Raj.

    I suggest looking for the ones that are bright red with white spots.

    those are the best.

  145. 645
    Grumps

    God? no. It just changes what’s going on in the brain. Yes it can make you feel at one with the universe. I have kissed god’s hand, but I have also argued with my friend the orange elephant… I’ve experienced both. Therefore it has helped me to realise that god and the orange elephant are one and the same… brain chemicals.

  146. 646
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Grumps

    don’t bother, Raj is brain dead stone cold sober.

  147. 647
    mikmik

    Ichthyic
    holy crap, apologies mikmik, for some reason I thought it was raja going off on how he thought he was an expert on addiction, and it was just so ironic to me I lept on it.
    I blame lack of coffee.

    LMAO! Man, I did the exact same to Nelson of Think Atheist on google+ there, when we were exchanging banter and suddenly(to him) I went off myself! I meant to type Alvin Platinga and accidentally typed his name, Nelson Apista. Funny as hell, especially because I didn’t catch it and it just sat there for a couple of days.

    Thanks, Ichthyic, myeck waters and Brownian, and all you folks, actually. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen another blog where the, uh, devout!, get disassembled so clinically, thoroughly, and hilariously, as TZT and Pharyngula.

    Giddy up!

  148. 648
    Ichthyic

    they look like this:

    http://morelmushroomhunting.com/amanita_muscaria_red.jpg

    if you want to meet your creator, that’s the one I would go with.

    the more you eat, the closer you’ll get.

  149. 649
    John Morales

    rajkumar, what you’re looking for is probably “goldtops”; kinda orangey on top and when bruised the stems get a bluish stain.

    The alkaloids are quite poisonous in quantity.

    You can make a tea out of them, but they taste disgusting. Dosage is important, and at lower dosages they basically just get you stoned.

    (Or so I’ve heard)

  150. 650
    Ingdigo Jump

    Oh damn you JM!

    SIGH…so close

  151. 651
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Anyways, I was actually interested in how some people report experiencing God on magic mushrooms. Any thoughts on that?

    you really are stupid.

  152. 652
    Ichthyic

    SIGH…so close

    +1

  153. 653
    John Morales

    Ing, Ichthyic, I do like to be helpful. ;)

    I also like handing out rope.

    (Speaking of which: autoerotic asphyxia. Yet another way to experience God…)

  154. 654
    Ingdigo Jump

    No one else is going to get this probably but my mental image of JM is now Kululu/Kururu from Sgt Frog

  155. 655
    Ichthyic

    autoerotic asphyxia. Yet another way to experience God

    As exampled by the good reverend Gary Aldridge, posted upthread.

    bless his soul.

  156. 656
    Grumps

    … any more questions rajkumar?

    We’ve got answers.

  157. 657
    rajkumar

    God? no. It just changes what’s going on in the brain. Yes it can make you feel at one with the universe. I have kissed god’s hand, but I have also argued with my friend the orange elephant… I’ve experienced both. Therefore it has helped me to realise that god and the orange elephant are one and the same… brain chemicals.

    Yes. But ever thought about a simple fact? Every time you observe something, inside you or outside you, it is still chemical changes going on in your brain that is making this perception possible? Even when you chat here on this blog? So, how does ‘mere chemical changes’ in the brain could negate this argument of experiencing God subjectively? If God could be experienced ‘objectively’, it was still those chemical changes in the brain that would make this experience possible.

  158. 658
    Ichthyic

    Every time you observe something, inside you or outside you, it is still chemical changes going on in your brain that is making this perception possible? Even when you chat here on this blog? So, how does ‘mere chemical changes’ in the brain could negate this argument of experiencing God subjectively?

    *facepalm*

    I just OBSERVED you posting this drivel.

    ergo, you have independent confirmation, from me, that it exists.

    are you REALLY REALLY this stupid????

    fuck me.

  159. 659
    Ichthyic

    … it’s fascinating to watch.

    like trying to see if a cockroach can gain self-awareness by staring at itself in a mirror.

  160. 660
    rajkumar

    fuck me.

    For this, wait and let me arrange the services of some Dingos.

  161. 661
    Ingdigo Jump

    I’m imagining Raj eating toadstools over and over again. Therefore it is now my reality.

    His last words were “gezpacho” if you’re interested

  162. 662
    Ingdigo Jump

    Oh what a surprise another sexual insult. cause really that’s all the roach has to fall back on

  163. 663
    rajkumar

    I’m imagining Raj eating toadstools over and over again. Therefore it is now my reality.

    His last words were “gezpacho” if you’re interested

    You know what? You have all your pressure points marked, and marked by you. Some with a Big ‘X’, some with bull’s eye, and some with the letters HM (hit me).

  164. 664
    Ingdigo Jump

    Oh yes Raj, you totally know how to push my buttons. In a battle of wits you CLEARLY would win.

    Oh look the “spiritualist” lowers himself to sexual insults and petty attacks. Clearly his beliefs have brought him such peace.

  165. 665
    rajkumar

    Oh what a surprise another sexual insult. cause really that’s all the roach has to fall back on

    I am trying to have a civil conversation, which seems highly improbable at the moment. When you try to act like a bunch of clowns, what do you expect from me? Why don’t you see your own shit? Does that look like chocolate ice cream to you? Why not taste it and let me know…

  166. 666
    rajkumar

    Anyways, I should go now. I smell resentment here…hence no chance of any meaningful conversation.

  167. 667
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    because you are an idiot

    and we’re laughing at you

  168. 668
    Ingdigo Jump

    Why don’t you see your own shit?

    Unlike you we don’t play with it.

    Again, what wonderful inner peace spirituality has brought Raj.

  169. 669
    Ingdigo Jump

    Remember Raj, next time you examine your own shit be sure not to slam the lid!

  170. 670
    Grumps

    @ rajkumar # 157

    OK just this once I’m going to try to answer your post without calling you a complete fuckwit, but that is hard so be patient. I’m trying.

    Every time you observe something, inside you or outside you, it is still chemical changes going on in your brain

    Yes. We agree. Isn’t this fun!

    how does ‘mere chemical changes’ in the brain could negate this argument of experiencing God subjectively?

    erm. excuse me? maybe, I just don’t know. Perhaps I’m stupid, but if I’m not that makes no fucking sense whatever!

    If God could be experienced ‘objectively’, it was still those chemical changes in the brain that would make this experience possible.

    .. yer.. pass the bong mate!

    BTW, you’re a complete fuckwit!

    OK, I tried, I failed, you win.

  171. 671
    myeck waters

    I have to deal with enough shit as it is, since my doggy is elderly.

    In fact, that’s what I had to jump up and clean this morning at 4am.

    Still more meaningful than any of minirajah’s posts.

  172. 672
    rajkumar

    Remember Raj, next time you examine your own shit be sure not to slam the lid!

    No, I haven’t done it, and I won’t do it. I won’t disown it, as you are disowning yours now.

  173. 673
    Ingdigo Jump

    Raj

    So you’re shit is your child…good to know. I usually just flush mine.

  174. 674
    Ingdigo Jump

    And speaking metaphorically it sounds like you’re proud of holding onto shit ideas. I won’t argue that.

  175. 675
    Ingdigo Jump

    your*

  176. 676
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    weighing watching Louis CK vs. taking time to smack raj down again…

  177. 677
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Rev

    Don’t rest on your lurals, challenge yourself! Go passively watch something, it takes more mental effort!

  178. 678
    rajkumar

    And speaking metaphorically it sounds like you’re proud of holding onto shit ideas. I won’t argue that.

    Yeah sometimes. But I would still recommend that you should concentrate more, much more, on your upcoming wedding, instead of fuming here, and wasting your energy. You know what? If anything undesirable is going to happen between you and your future bride or husband because your were angry with me, I don’t want to be held responsible for it.

  179. 679
    rajkumar

    I take everything back I said about you.

  180. 680
    rajkumar

    Even what I said about Sam Harris. He is not a LSD junkie. Ok. Maybe a part time small time LSD junkie. but not a full blown raging LSD junkie

  181. 681
    Ingdigo Jump

    BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Oh yes. I’ll apologize because of allllllllll the trouble you’re causing! Ehehehehehehe.

    Your self worth is one of those shit ideas you’re proud to hold onto.

    So are petty personal attacks that would be cruel if you weren’t so fucking horrible one of those things proscribed by God?

    “oh waaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaah! I can’t win an arguement! I know! I’ll start teasing their family and/or sex! HEHE I IS THE GRAPEIST! Truely I have defended teh faith welL!’

  182. 682
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    so along with not being smart, in any perceivable way, you’re also not funny or witty

    at all

    in any perceivable way

  183. 683
    Ingdigo Jump

    I take everything back I said about you.

    Awwwwwwwwwwwww how sweet. I don’t.

    Even what I said about Sam Harris. He is not a LSD junkie. Ok. Maybe a part time small time LSD junkie. but not a full blown raging LSD junkie

    I think you’d like Harris. He’s a unethical mystic

  184. 684
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Rev

    He made me laugh.

  185. 685
    rajkumar

    ah well.

    at least I tried. The problem is, you don’t see your own behaviour, which is why you like to victimize yourself.

  186. 686
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    He made me laugh.

    well i’ve been laughing at him for a while. SO there’s that.

  187. 687
    Ingdigo Jump

    Raj

    Perhaps in another universe that made sense. In this one it makes none.

    The problem is, you don’t see your own behaviour

    Yes if only we were as reflective as petty mean spirited mystics.

  188. 688
    rajkumar

    Victimizing is not a very productive effort. Gets you nowhere.

  189. 689
    chigau (違う)

    theophontes, A. R
    The weather here is absolutely lovely.

  190. 690
    Ingdigo Jump

    You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Raj, it’s hard to take advice from someone who a) tries in impotent flailing to hit bellow the belt b) fails to understand basic concepts like “suspension of disbelief”

    Btw, how are those shrooms coming? Be sure to eat a whoooooooooooooole bushel or else God won’t come out to play

  191. 691
    rajkumar

    Raj, it’s hard to take advice from someone who a) tries in impotent flailing to hit bellow the belt b) fails to understand basic concepts like “suspension of disbelief”

    No one is giving you any advice. There is a difference between giving advice and expressing your opinion. I have said it before, so I will say it again, you don’t have to agree with me on anything. If anything, I like it when you disagree. But it’s hard to have a conversation with you (and your friends) when you are disagreeing like little infants, isn’t it?

    Btw, how are those shrooms coming? Be sure to eat a whoooooooooooooole bushel or else God won’t come out to play

    OK. But I am not interested in these things, as in performing experiments on myself using those things. Maybe Harris is, but not me. But I don’t mind discussing their effects, as I don’t mind discussing homosexuality — doesn’t make me interested in trying out homosexuality personally.

  192. 692
    John Morales

    Ing,

    His last words were “gezpacho” if you’re interested

    <giggle>

    You have a genius for cultural allusion.

    (Oh, Arnold!)

  193. 693
    Rev. BigDumbChimp

    Maybe you could try critical thinking? personally.

  194. 694
    Ingdigo Jump

    But I don’t mind discussing their effects, as I don’t mind discussing homosexuality — doesn’t make me interested in trying out homosexuality personally.

    Oh do tell what effects those owuld be. This is going to be Hi LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR IOUS!

    Raj, really. when you go out of your way to attack someone’s family life and sexuality you’re going to complain about people being childish?

    Tell me is that one of your lessons God taught you?

  195. 695
    Inaji

    Brownian:

    Jesus fuck, but you’re a stupid asshole. Just to clarify, you haven’t taken acid before, have you?

    I’ve taken a fair amount of acid, different types and all, and you definitely know when you’ve taken it.

    Only a few hours later when your eyes expand to the size of saucers …

    Sugar, if you have eyeballs which can expand to the size of saucers, you need to see a doctor, stat. You might be a mutant.

  196. 696
    John Morales

    rajkumar:

    Anyways, I should go now. I smell resentment here…hence no chance of any meaningful conversation.

    Heh. I remember when the rajkumar imagined it was trolling us…

    (As a fly to wanton boys is it to the commentariat*)

    * Offered with due apologies for the bastardisation of ol’ Willy’s memorable line.

  197. 697
    chigau (違う)

    But the doctor would turn him over to the MIBs.
    So sunglasses are probably a better option.

  198. 698
    Ingdigo Jump

    @Caine

    What you don’t inflate your eyes to attract mates? Wait are these the humans of Earth or the Hu-man’s of Zybus seven?

  199. 699
    Amphiox

    So much for “No more discussions on Harris from me from this point forward…”

    Lying fapwit.

    Fapfapfap.

    Pathetic.

  200. 700
    Ingdigo Jump

    It amuses me that he thinks bashing Harris is going to be some huge thing.

    Seriously fuck Harris.

  201. 701
    rajkumar

    Raj, really. when you go out of your way to attack someone’s family life and sexuality you’re going to complain about people being childish?

    Tell me is that one of your lessons God taught you?

    Yeah, it is complicated. God first taught me to be highly moral and ethical, then God taught me that I had to act as a complete opposite of it for a few years, promising I would get my ethics and my sense of morality back in a completely new way. I see God hasn’t broken his promise….:)

  202. 702
    John Morales

    [free association + musical interlude]

    A different Arnold: Arnold Layne.

  203. 703
    chigau (違う)

    God is not complicated.
    Whatever is whispering to you is probably a demon.

  204. 704
    chigau (違う)

    Not you John Morales.
    Weeelll maybe.

  205. 705
    Inaji

    Ing:

    What you don’t inflate your eyes to attract mates?

    Nope. Other bits of me are suitably…inflated.

    Wait are these the humans of Earth or the Hu-man’s of Zybus seven?

    I think we might be talking some sort of mutant fly world. Or perhaps Misogyniraj is a poisonous froad.

  206. 706
    Inaji

    I smell resentment here

    What you’re smelling, PuffTart, is your own shit. You’ve been swimming in it for quite some time.

    Also, you’re mistaking amusement for resentment. We sit amused, Sugar. You just can’t get anything right, can you?

  207. 707
    rajkumar

    Also, you’re mistaking amusement for resentment. We sit amused, Sugar. You just can’t get anything right, can you?

    Maybe one thing I can get right. That you are not who you are pretending to be so forcefully.

  208. 708
    Ingdigo Jump

    Maybe one thing I can get right

    Here’s the pitch!

    That you are not who you are pretending to be so forcefully.

    AAAAAAAAAAAAND a miss

  209. 709
    John Morales

    [thematic elaboration via literary allusion]

    ‘Will you walk into my parlour?’ said the Spider to the Fly.

  210. 710
    John Morales

    [extended metaphorical allegory]

    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

    (Can ya tell I’m a touch bored?)

  211. 711
    Inaji

    Puff Tart:

    That you are not who you are pretending to be so forcefully.

    Who am I, Misogyniraj? You think that was forceful? Oh my, that didn’t even require a dollop of drollery, nor an em of effort. Tsk. Put some meat on the bone, little Puff Tart. We grow weary of the grinding of fangs on such insubstantial fare.

    John, you are superb when suffering ennui.

  212. 712
    PZ Myers

    I’m getting a little annoyed. I keep killing these things, and they keep coming back.

  213. 713
    Ichthyic

    For this, wait and let me arrange the services of some Dingos.

    yes, please do.

    Likely they will mistake you for a pile of hamburger.

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