Oh, look who’s also going to the Reason Rally: goddamned annoying evangelical Christians. I’m beginning to feel like my long-standing personal policy of not intruding on their church services needs to be questioned, because man, is this ever arrogant and obnoxious.
Come join us there! We invite you to unite with us in a spirit of grace and truth (John 1:14, 1:18), ready to speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15), with godly grace and wisdom (Col. 4:6).
This is not a counter-demonstration. We are going there to share Christ person to person as opportunity arises. We will not raise our voices. We will talk with those who want to talk with us. We will offer gifts and materials to all, but we will not press ourselves on those who do not wish to converse. Knowing that the way others may choose to gather near us is not entirely in our control, we will nevertheless attempt to avoid gathering groups larger than a handful of people.
If these people bother you at the rally, I recommend one of two choices: either tell them sternly to leave you alone and walk away, or — and this is the fun part — calmly and politely take their rubbish arguments apart with much soft-spoken malice and cruelty.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. This gathering will certainly attract swarms of mindless parasites…this is just the first public announcement of their intent that I’ve seen.
(via Ophelia)
I wish I could go. Unfortunately, I have an important wedding to attend the 24th.
Can’t you reschedule the event? March 31st would be much more convenient.
Speaking of schedules, is there going to be a published schedule for the rally beforehand? I hope to be there, but I can’t do the whole day.
Meeting reason with unreason.
Glen Davidson
OhmiCthulhu. This really doesn’t look too good.
Brain dead militant fundie morons meet militant atheists.
I doubt there will be violence but there could be.
The meeting organizers should have a proctor security type force to try to keep things from escalating out of control. They don’t have to do much usually, just wear their T shirts and arm bands and remind people to keep their cool.
And yes, I’ve been to many demonstrations during the anti-war days. Very rarely was there even minor violence but it happened occasionally. Some war monger would start shouting insults (cowards, chickens, commies, etc.) and people would start shouting insults back. Or someone would throw something.
Laughter is always in order.
I would like to second Nigel’s comments about this rally’s lack of convenience. Could you move it to my road please? I really cannot be bothered to go out, buy a ticket to the USA, go to the airport, fly, travel to the rally, make “rabble rabble” noises, travel back from the rally, fly again (as if once wasn’t inconvenient enough), travel from the airport, wash my pants, and get over the jet lag.
Bloody Americans, with your continent. It’s just not cricket.
Louis
P.S. Naturally, I really wish all attendees a safe, pleasant and enlightening time. I hope these Christian attendees are dealt with appropriately, i.e. guillotines and gulags…right? Isn’t that what they are always saying we’re doing? We might as well be ACTUALLY guilty. Ohhhh allll right, no guillotines or gulags. I’d offer gelato….but that might cause PTSD….gonorrhea? Human chorionic gonadotrophin? Gibbons? Hmmmm, perhaps polite conversation and a bit of a rub down instead. Massage Christians into reason! By Jove, I think I’ve got it!
In all likelihood, there is going to be just a small smattering of the brain-dead, all clustered together and holding out their bibles like garlic to a vampire against the hordes.
It would be amusing to simply stand in front of them, not interacting with them in any way, and continually pretend to take pictures of them. But hey, that’s me. I used to burn ants with a magnifying glass.
and if you refuse to listen to us, our daddy will burn you in a lake of his burning love for ever because he loves you.
I don’t have a good feel for how many normally reasoning people and how many fundie xians will be at this rally.
It’s likely to be thousands or tens of thousands of reasoning people and 2-10 fundies.
They might be totally lost in the crowd.
Alright, Louis, I’ll do my part. Mail me your pants, I’ll wash them.
Now will you go?
“Knowing the way groups tend to gather near us…”
They really think they’re going to get a bunch of avowed atheists to listen to them, don’t they?
ruteekatreya:
Well, yeah. The only reason y’all are atheist is because you haven’t heard the Word of God™. Either that, or you know he exists and you just hate God.
There’s a laundry service?
They might. Not to listen to them. We’ve heard it countless times. Many or most atheists are ex-xians.
To argue with them or laugh at them. We’ve all done that countless times by now and know the scripts word per word.
…the funnest choice is to eat one of them alive, and then ask the remainder to describe what their pal will look like in heaven. Will shklee look like shklee did at five years old? Ten years old? Right before shklee was eaten? Or will shklee appear in front of God’s glory as a bolus or a turd?
Brownian:
Well, at first they’ll look like Sebastian Shaw, but God’s gonna retcon the whole thing and then they’ll look like Hayden Christiansen.
I’m kind of rusty on the scripts, but yeah, I know what’s going to *Actually happen*. They just mean “THese are potential converts” not “These people think we’re lackwits”.
I’ve never been a convention person, are the atheist conventions huge draws for fundies? I know a few anime conventions have gotten them, at least.
“We invite you to unite with us in a spirit of grace and truth (John 1:14, 1:18), ready to speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15), with godly grace and wisdom (Col. 4:6).”
Seriously, what does any of that mean? In English? Does anyone know?
“gifts”
If these “gifts” are like the “gift” I got from a girl in college, I want no part of it.
It doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a Shibboleth, a secret handshake.
Just in case that large group is feeling a big guillotine happy.
I seriously doubt that this will turn ugly.
However, if they REALLY are worried about the potential of groups gathering beyond their control then they probably should have rethought broadcasting their intent.
The interactive approach that they mention doesn’t require swarms and it would function a lot more efficiently if they kept their numbers small and manageable.
It SEEMS that what they really want to do is make a “numbers statement” rather than an intellectual/spiritual one.
Also, there’s something pretty unethical about inviting friends to a party that you, yourself, weren’t invited to. They’ve already lost any highground they might have imagined having.
Subconsciously, they’re aware of this. And worse, YOU are aware of this, too.
That said, know where YOUR power lies and don’t rethink your “long-standing personal policy of not intruding.”
And also, keep your “malice and cruelty” “soft-spoken”. You guys are pretty good at this and the results show it. Don’t let the fundies draw you out of YOUR game and into theirs.
Quoting myself, since I think there’s an interesting bit of Evangelist psychology here. It’s the Magic Words problem:
It’s missing the last part:
…and then we will raise our voices when we find that few of them are paying us much attention.
But my game is malice and cruelty. They’re the bread and butter of funny.
Brownian:
That’s the exact post I had in mind when I wrote #12.
Heretical illiterates.
Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins.–Isaiah 58:1.
I really hope Sastra comes by to straighten this out. She writes with a clarity of thought that I can’t help but mangle when I get my big beefcake trog mitts all over it.
Magic doesn’t work.
These people need to grow up.
Ah, erm, yes, thanks for pointing that out.
Sure, and people need to stop committing crimes and having unprotected sex, says the right wing.
Reality, in both cases, is more complex than that.
Brownian, #26
Notice that I’m not disagreeing with you.
Anyway, what would you say to any atheist who shuns your approach towards religion because of its “malicious and cruel” nature?
I agree with rapiddominance #23.
Pointing out that these people are gatecrashing a party to which they are not invited and, as such, are behaving in a very rude and unethical manner might put them on the back foot. Pointing out that atheists never gatecrash their meetings, not once, not ever. might just be labouring the point. The cherry on the cake would be to point out how religious types like to gatecrash the meetings of other relgious types and spray the event with machine guns. Oh yes, and we don’t, not once, not ever.
That would be entirely dependent on the topic of conversation at hand.;)
Okay, everybody handle these folks with reason and tact and class or not, as your preference*. I promise I’ll only eat one of them, unless I’m already full.
*Note that in PA, it’s now legally defensible to hit someone who pisses you off for religious reasons, as long as your intent behind hitting them is not “to harass, annoy or alarm [but] to try and have the offensive situation negated”.
I find it disgusting that these idiots are begging for money to waste giving out booklets of the same drek that they prate on the internet. However, if I do see these numbnuts, I will make sure to get one of their little booklets to ridicule.
I think this is one case where an “ignore the trolls” mentality could work quite well. We know these people are immune to logic and reason, so what we have to think about is what their goals are and how to make them feel like they’ve completely wasted their time. Their goals are two fold:
1. They actually think they’ll convert people. Idiots.
2. They want, though they won’t say it, some kind of confrontation they can use to try to make us look bad.
Ignoring them thwarts both goals in their mind. Imagine, every single person they attempt to talk to politely says “no thank you” and walks away. They don’t get a single opportunity to save anyone. How depressing for them.
Simultaneously, those who would love to have a confrontation get absolutely nothing. The atheists and free thinkers are perfectly polite and avoid confrontation altogether. Again, how depressing for them.
In the end, they go home with nothing.
Of course, this only works if EVERYONE gets on board, one big argument and you’ve got a small pack of Christians thinking they’ve gotten into somebody’s head. One person gets a little loud after being badgered endlessly and says something slightly nasty and they’ll put it all over YouTube claiming the whole event was evil.
And of course, I know this isn’t the Pharyngula way, but really, I just imagine how sad and pathetic it would be for them not to get any of what they want out of this…and it makes me smile.
Phew.
With god handling it, no humans will need to physically show up, right?
I like the previously mentioned idea of treating them as some sort of exhibit or display. Walk around them, don’t engage, discuss them with each other, take pictures, etc.
Treat them like the curiosity that they are.
Someone could do a documentary. Wild evangelists out of their native habitat.
Awesome. +1. +∞
We’ll need signs asking those attending the RR not to tap on the glass. Of course, we’ll have to contend with Bob Barker and PETA in any case.
Then get some mimes to pretend they really are in glass.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go kill myself for suggesting mimes.
Someone should pass out programs for the Evangelical Display.
“Finish them! Finish them your way!”
“Oh good, our way. Thank you, PZ…Which way’s our way?”
“Pick up some science and reason, get to the Reason Rally. In a few minutes the Evangelists will come with their pamphlets. The minute their heads are in view, hit them with the science!”
“Our way’s not very sportsmanlike.”
I’ve decided that this is technically a form of mime, and it’s fucking awesome.
Usually they just walk in and blow themselves up. Suicide bombers seem to be the fashionable way to kill people not of your sect these days.
Although IED’s and mortars do have their fans.
Perhaps someone should ask the fundie gatecrashers if they are going to have any of those organic self guided missiles among them.
Rev. BDC:
And group tours!
“Over here, we have an open-air display of homo evengelica, better known as the Lesser American Christian. They are extremely common in North America, but truly flourish in hotter, less intelligent climates. They are easily identified by their glassy stares and their loud, screeching cries which sound like this: ‘I’m oppressed! I’m oppressed!’ While overly-abundant in many regions, it’s illegal to hunt the Lesser Christian. Many people mistakenly believe the Lesser Christian is on the endangered species list. However, with luck and natural attrition, this may be true in a couple of decades.”
“Oooooh!” “Ahhh!”
*snaps pictures*
“once seen in vast herds across the US and Canada, they do not thrive in climates of scientific literacy, and their numbers have begun to dwindle. Concerned Republican environmental activists have proposed a number of laws aimed at preserving their habitats from encroachment by knowledge, reason, and justice. Attempts to artificially recreate leks-like gatherings known as diplomamills for the purpose of breeding have met with limited success, as many evangelicals prefer to raise and educate their young at home, despite having few tools to do so effectively.
Diet
The North American evangelical subsists on a varied diet, though meat proteins and carbohydrates are commonly overrepresented as vegetables are viewed as symbolic means of mytho-cultural transmission rather than as edibles…”
Damn. Nigel already wrote up the interpretive display.
Loved the vid, Brownian.
Brownian:
Yes. Yes it is.
@echidna, nigel:
That’s not even his best. The guy is crazy skilled/talented.
A street performance by Brother Sam Singleton might be called for.
I don’t think they seriously expect to convert anyone. This is about two things:
Firstly, yes, they want the attendees to look bad. Here’s the thing, though: there’s no way for the attendees to not look bad to these folks. Angry confrontation: bad, obviously. Mockery: they’ll certainly paint that as bad. Ignoring them, or polite refusal to engage: see how closed-minded these atheists are! Polite discussion: haven’t we seen time and time again that no amount of politeness is enough if you don’t accept Jesus? Whatever you do, they’ll spin it as further evidence of the spiritual bankruptcy of atheism.
Secondly, it’s about publicly showing what good people they are. Look at those words: grace and truth … truth in love … godly grace and wisdom … offer gifts … Why, these people are practically saints! In their own minds, at least. They’ll return to their church afterwards feeling a little more Christ-like, and a little more certain of their place in heaven.
Brownian:
It is. But you know what would be more awesome? Getting Dawkins, Randi and PZ to try that at the rally. Is dad dubstep a thing?
And…Brownian@43 wins another thread!
Well played, sir.
The eaten one won’t.
But you’re probably right about the rest.
There are two ways to deal with someone who comes to you with the goal of trying to railroad you into giving them what they want: don’t give them anything (likely not possible in this case); or give them so much they choke on it.
So, we either get one person to be all smiles and stupid questions and tie them up in inane conversation or we come up with a drinking game and get wasted in front of them.
Somehow I think it’d have all the awesome of a third grade school play.
Call me when my kid’s on stage. I think she plays the cactus.
PZ Gnmwaihush, #10,
You’ll wash my mailed pants? Damn! You know how to focus on my one serious objection.
However, I am now unsure how to proceed. Frankly the temptation to fly over was reasonable to begin with*, but the temptation to mail you some pants (remember, in the UK pants =/= trousers) is now almost overwhelming. Just the thought of you posting a photo of a pair of pants with a suitable “WTF!?”….
….I’d be kind of course, I wouldn’t actually send you pants that needed washing. No, no. No need to thank me.
Louis
*I’m getting my rallies in a lot at the moment, we’ve had a couple of good ones in the UK in the last few weeks.
Brownian:
That was absolutely mesmerizing. Wow. It might technically be mime, but I think even Vetinari would allow such a performance.
Anakin: You are so… beautiful.
Padmé: It’s only because I’m so in love.
Anakin: No, it’s because I’m so in love with you.
Padmé: So love has blinded you?
Anakin: Well, that’s not exactly what I meant.
Padmé: But it’s probably true.
…
Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo; so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war.
Caine:
Usually, I’ll look at a dancer and think: I couldn’t do that.
But sometimes, I’ll think: how can anyone do that?
Ah, poop. Wrong thread. Too many tabs open. Sorry!
Since I won’t be going, I really hope those of you who do go will talk to these people and, most importantly, record the conversations. This is going to be hilarious.
In deference to the Star-Wars themed thread:
Remember, when encountering Evangelicals, to speak in a silky smooth baritone voice, like James Earl Jones in Star Wars. (bother the prequels… )
Yes Lose your hate. . . come to the Educated Side . . . throw down your Hokey religions and come to the Bright side. . .
Had it been a Conan the Barbarian themed thread (Crush JT thread) I guess Thulsa Doom would have worked also.
You. Just. Know. They’re. Lying.
And, please – no dubstep!!
Get the Foo Fighters. On that flatbed. Like they did to those Westboro f’wits.!!
Anybody else see some wanna-be-Westboro-famous behind the announcement?
nigelTheBold @1–I know it’s not Washington DC, but Rock Beyond Belief takes place on March 31 at Fort Bragg.
We’ll take their pamphlets, tell them you need extras for your home-bound heathens, and ceremoniously drop them into the nearest trash can. After they run out of pamphlets, they’ll not have a script!
It seems they want to try and make sure that they outnumber any atheist they talk to, maybe three- to- one. That way one can give some asinine dismissal of any response we can give to their claims while the others try to mire us down with loads of tripe from mulitple directions. Ultimately keeping us engaged in several conversations at once with them only having to concentrate on one each. In that situation an atheist will not be able to respond to everything thrown at them, allowing them to run home claiming a win because we didn’t have all the answers.
Part of me hopes that, if they do show up, they will be there for honest discussion. You know, an actual exchange of thoughts and ideas. If that is the case I’m sure they’ll get in tons. However, experience tells me that what they want is a monologue. They talk, we swallow. The moment someone talks back, no matter how civil, they’ll have broken the rules and be given any number of pre- determined labels that simply confirm what they already “knew” to be true about atheists.
@PZMyers
“I’m beginning to feel like my long-standing personal policy of not intruding on their church services needs to be questioned.”
If, by “intruding on their church services,” you mean attending a worship service with an open mind and an open heart to learn more about Jesus Christ, I whole-heartedly and enthusiastically agree. Every Christian can trace his or her salvation back to a single step, and sometimes that step is the decision to attend a particular church on a particular day.
If, instead, you’re planning to vandalize a church, blaspheme its exterior with spray paint, break in and remove the crosses, or defecate on the altar as other atheists have recently done in several churches in several states, then you would be well-advised to keep your distance. Lawlessness is never the right answer.
If you’re considering something less dramatic – say an organized protest in front of a particular church or churches – know that by doing so, you’d be fulfilling scriptural prophesy. Additionally, know that you won’t keep believers away from their church by picketing out front. If anything, protesting their freedom to worship would strengthen the body of believers and encourage others into a deeper spiritual walk.
“calmly and politely take their rubbish arguments apart with much soft-spoken malice and cruelty.”
Your sentiment contains a contradiction which thrives at the core of the atheistic and anti-theistic belief systems. Whether you recognize it or not, your call for politeness is at odds with your call for malice. Your call for cruelty is at odds with your call for politeness. To be soft-spoken, calm, and polite while dispensing malice and cruelty tends towards the sociopathic. I wonder, does fun-filled cruelty or polite malice strike you as normal?
“man, is this ever arrogant and obnoxious”
Are you referring to this?
“we are going there to share Christ person to person as opportunity arises”
“we will not raise our voices”
“we will talk with those who want to talk with us”
“we will not press ourselves on those who do not wish to converse”
Or are you referring to this?
“tell them sternly to leave you alone”
“or — and this is the fun part — calmly and politely take their rubbish arguments apart with much soft-spoken malice and cruelty”
“As the opportunity arises,” “not raise our voices,” “talk with those who want to talk,” and “not press ourselves” do not qualify as being either arrogant or obnoxious. Suggesting sternness, malice, and cruelty to individuals gathered in “a spirit of grace” is at the very least obnoxious.
A primary characteristic of this blog is that opposing ideas are categorically dismissed as stupidity, mindlessness, arrogance, and obnoxiousness – even when they are not. A secondary characteristics of this blog is that, when arrogance and obnoxiousness are applied on behalf of an idea favored by the blogger and its readers, it application is not only condoned but applauded loudly. On the other hand, when arrogance and obnoxiousness are applied on behalf of an idea opposed by the blogger and its readers, or applied in opposition to an idea supported by the blogger and its readers, arrogance and obnoxiousness are suddently become offensive.
In closing, may you, the other speakers, and the attendees at the Reason Rally enjoy safe travels to and from, and may your event go smoothly. Your First Amendment rights are no less valuable than my own. I thank you for bringing the Christians at the Reason Rally to my attention as I did not know about them previously; I will be upholding them in prayer individually and as part of a paryer group.
“and as part of a paryer group”
Oops, I meant “prayer group”
Cite the scripture, please.
FFS. People will laugh at you isn’t a fucking prophecy! People will hate you when you declare yourselves the anointed and talk down to them and preach that they deserve to be sent to a cosmic rape camp isn’t prophecy.
Let me make a prophecy, you’re going to tut tut me for using naughty language.
Oh good for a moment I was afraid you would join them or donate to them or something. Thank you for not doing anything.
About that prophesy… Bible mentions PZ and Pharyngulates specifically, or is it just a general reference to a tentacled puppet master (which obviously means PZ)?
Wrong. There is not one single Christian who can provide evidence that such salvation exists, or that he or she has been granted it.
@Beatrice
…
PZ is Leviathan The Beast of the Sea?
Who is Behemoth and who is Zuul?
Haha indeed *smokes pipe*. My single step was to stop going to church.
You seem to assume that we haven’t learned about Jesus Christ. Strange.
Actually, nearly all Christians can trace their “salvation” back to being raised in that religious tradition.
Oh, we know. We see it from Christians all the time. I guess this will just be an experiment in speaking their language.
@raymondkoepsell
Reality check! Provide citations to newspaper articles reporting that atheists have done those things recently, or, for the ones you cannot cite, admit you made them up.
I predicted Christians would be out at the reason rally.
Prophecy.
And then compare the ones done by atheists to the ones done by other theists.
Since atheists know more about your imaginary deity than you do, that won’t be the case, and you know that. Hubris on your part. He would be there to tell the truth. Your deity doesn’t exist, your babble is a book of mythology/fiction, and you are delusional presuppositional fools for believing without evidence. Welcome to reality, where your faith is WRONG.
Well, I was stabbing in the dark, but it would fit nicely, with references such as :
(wiki – Hebrew Bible, 41:1-41:34)
;)
“Ha-ha! Enjoy hell!”
A primary characteristic of Christianity is its torture fetishism.
I’m sure that’s not the case with raymondkoepsell, but that’s only because shklee and those who agree with shkler are surely the only True Christians™.
Leviathan is also in art portrayed as either a giant whale or a giant squid…or a combination of both in some cases.
As for prophecy, the Diamond Sutra predicts the infinite nature of the universe, a full millennium before modern cosmology, and a time when Abrahamists thought the number of stars was about the same magnitude as Abram’s descendents:
Prophecy!
My prophecy is that several preachers will bring up the Reason Rally in their sermons, and most of them will use it to talk about the horrible persecution Christians suffer in the USA.
Please add scare quotes to my #87 as appropriate.
So it turns out that vandals did break in and defecate on the altar of churches in North Carolina:
Sounds like neo-nazis or racists, not atheists–at least not Gnu Atheists like most of us here. Notice that the vandals apparently believe in the existence of a deity they refer to as “the Devil”, which tells us that they probably were not atheists since atheists put all supernatural deities and demigods in the same bin with all other imaginary creatures.
I prophesize that in the future Christians will continue to think the pedestrian predictions they torture from the bible will be prophecy.
I also prophesize that rational people will continue to point and laugh.
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. –Matthew 12:1-4 (NIV)
When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal. Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness.”–Luke 11:37-39 (NIV)
At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.—John 8:2-8 (NIV)
Oops.
Not atheists, then. It’s odd, how Christians don’t seem to grok that no belief in gods includes no belief in devils.
Where’d raymondkoepsell go? Didn’t shklee say something to the effect of learning about Jesus Christ: Sometime Lawbreaker with an open mind?
raymondkoepsell, rather than praying for your fellow Christians (who are already saved, so what’s the fucking point of praying for them during their temporary stay here on Earth?), why don’t you attend the Reason Rally?
You might learn something.
Well thanks for the suggestions, but in general we prefer either reasoned argument, or mockery. If you have any sort of evidence for the acts you list having been committed, I certainly condemn them, whoever carried them out. If you had any evidence they were actually committed by atheists, I’m sure you would have presented it, but I invite you to prove me wrong. Similarly, if you had any sort of evidence that any of the claims of Christianity are true, I’m sure you would have presented that, but again, I invite you to prove me wrong.
I certainly don’t condone their actions, but I have no idea why they should bother you. Don’t you believe the words of your Saviour?
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”–Matthew 5:11-12 (NIV)
Must be pretty important stuff here, since it’s covered again in a second Gospel (have you seriously not read this stuff?)
“Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.”–Luke 6:22 (NIV)
Really, those neo-Nazis were apparently doing those Christians a favour:
“Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.”–Luke 6:26 (NIV)
I guess raymondkoepsell isn’t interested in the biblical Christ after all.
Pity.
Brownian:
He’s in his prayer closet, no doubt, fervently apologizing to Jesus for being wrong and un-biblical by announcing his intent to pray in public, which, as a good and knowledgeable Christian, he surely knows is a bible no-no.
Here is a news report on that vandalism with video of how awful it was: Vandals Defecate On Church’s Altar, Burn Cross & Dig Up A Slave Child’s Tombstone.
Some of the churches that were hit by vandalism within the same time period were predominantly White churches, but those churches only got spray painted it seems. Some of the graffiti on one of the White churches does have more atheistic undertones, including a Jesus fish with the word “Evolve” painted under it.
Whoever committed them, these acts are certainly condemnable. Hopefully the vandals will be caught. It hasn’t been more than a few months since these things happened, so we could still see someone being hauled in for these crimes.
Are you referring to this direct statement by Jesus against public prayer, which no atheist would know because we’re all unfamiliar with the Bible and its contents?
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.–Matthew 6:5-6 (NIV)
Or are you referring to the Christian notion of being Christ-like and the several times that Jesus heeds his own advice and leaves the presence of others to pray alone and in private (Mark 6:46, Matthew 14:23, Luke 9:18, John 6:15, to name a few)?
Brownian:
Yes.
Oh, that’s nice. “Thank-you for the meal. Also, fuck you.”
Aratina Cage:
I certainly don’t condone such behaviour, however, what some sociopaths did to some churches really has nothing to do with Raymond’s little visit here. Raymond’s purpose for bringing that up was a standard xtian tactic, smearing slime all over the place by implying that all atheists would do such a thing to a church because we’re all icky, sociopathic, amoral creatures.
It would be nice if our Cupcake for Christ had the courage of his convictions to stick around for a chat, because it would seem shklee has some extreme stupid stuck in shklir brain about atheists.
raymondkoepsell:
People get frustrated. We’re finally starting to break free from the prison, and here comes another god-squad trying to drag us back in.
I’m just calling Raymond’s bluff. As usual, the only ones providing evidence are us atheists. Raymond, typical anti-atheist Christian that he is, appears unable or unwilling to do anything but throw smears at us and jump to conclusions in a childish huff.
Seems like shklee’s got shklis work cut out learning about Christianity.
But, I’m happy to teach.
Honestly, what’s with these Christians and their “Knock and run” game?
[Giggling] “Go on, I dare you Raymond!”
“But what if I get caught?”
“What are you, chicken?”
[Stands up straight, attains a steely-eyed gaze] “Nobody calls me ‘chicken’.”
[Hands trembling, Raymond types a comment, while the other church kids watch on.] “Well, Raymond? Click ‘submit’.”
[Hand on mouse, Raymond hesitates. One of the bigger boys grabs his hand and forces his finger against the mouse button.]
“Typo! Raymond made a typo!”
[Braver now, Raymond cuts, pastes, and corrects. He clicks ‘Submit’ again. The other children stare at him with newfound respect, until he breaks from the computer and bolts for the door. They all follow, screaming out of a mixture of geniune excitement and terror.]
Brownian:
Ah, I can picture it perfectly. Raymond must be failing Witnessing 101, so he’s hiding out in Ineffectual Actions: The Call to Prayer, remedial course.
Perhaps Raymond has converted to Buddhism. After all, as I pointed out, prophecy!
Nope – raymond only wrote that so that he could prove to his wife that he was “givin’ them a-theists hell”.
This was to cover up the time he spent surfin’ for porn.
Wow, I struck a nerve; 40± replies in 24 hours! Well-played leukocytes. You’re nothing if not utterly predictable.
PZ should send royalty checks to the charity of my choice for doing my part to maintain his site traffic.
Alas, I somehow expect he will not. But in the event he’s feeling charitable, here’s a worthwhile cause: http://ratiochristi.org/
There’s a good chance PZ will appear soon and post about how this thread was simmering quietly for a while but he took notice when activity picked up.
Then PZ will say something insulting and/or dismissive about the lone dissenting Godbot in this thread.
Then a bunch of Dickbots will strenuously agree with PZ.
(Note to self: Research whether or not it’s improper to use the term Dickbot synonymously with Pharyngulate and try to ascertain whether Sir Richard would be insulted at such a comparison. PZ is not quite one of the Four Horsemen, but I read on Google News there’s an opening.)
Or it’s entirely possible that I’m way off base and PZ won’t post a reply – leaving this little thread will die a quiet death.
No, not the Dungeon, anything but the Dungeon! Please!!!
(Phew, I was scared for a moment!)
I would expect a news search for church desecrations to bring something up, unfortunately, Google only indexes the web and hasn’t got around to the fevered imagination of trolls.
“Your prayers are whispers to an empty room.”
[meta]
<snicker>
<giggle>
LOL.
You are trying to be funny here? You think that your taunt has meaning?
Take a look at the amount of comments on each thread. 40= comments in a twenty four hour period is a slow thread dead. You have not done a thing to increase site traffic, if anything, you killed traffic.
Also, you can in sneering. People were reacting to your unearned sense of importance, you touched nothing.
Anything thing else that you want to puff up about yourself?
What a delusional fool. If you got 1000 replies in 24 hours yes. 40? YAWN, SIWOTI response posts to an boring, ignorant, and predictable godbot.
What a shame I thought we had a real god bot not just a troll. That’s a shame
Ray has played here before. He knows how scorched his tail feathers get, when even the Pullet Patrol™ is ROFLAO.
Pullet Patrol?
Just how lame do you think Ray’s arguments are? Even the PP can see the logical fallacies he presents. Of course they have Patricia teaching them a thing or two about godbot illogic.
The stupid is strong in this one: http://deeperwaters.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/reason-rally-pleased-for-p-z/
I saw this post via a link at the Blaze … and the top comment is:
I personally believe that the Big Bands came from jazz bands, but that’s my agenda and I’m sticking to it.
Your complaints about not being able to speak at churh have been taken seriously. You are now being invited to church for the first annual Atheists at Church Day http://www.truereason.org/atheist-day/
A personal invitation has been extended to Dr. Myers http://www.truereason.org/myersinvitation.pdf
Whenever I venture into this blog, I never cease to come away underwhelmed by your collective lack of original thought. Hasn’t PZ taught you to think for yourselves? Evidently not. To wit, Atheist Handbook 101 on display. When dealing with Godbots:
1) Demand proof, but only selectively, and only when it suits your needs
2) Use hyperbole (@72 “Cosmic rape camp” – too good not to cite! Kudos whichever leukocyte wrote that!)
3) Employ sarcasm
4) Disregard context on as needed basis
5) Pretend majority equals all
6) Be a victim as needed
7) Be condescending
8) When trapped, lie!
9) Fall back on profanity “goddamn, shitty, piss, fucking” (You Gnu Atheists are soooooo well-spoken!! Chris Hitchens would be so proud of each of you!!)
10) Fall back on buzzwords: delusional, presuppositional, mythology (and anything else that falls from Richard Dawkins’ mouth)
You who claim to have so much more understanding of Jesus than I are literally ignoring the most famous passage of the bible: (PZ really gets his feelings hurt when I quote the bible, but cut him some slack here. The babble of Jebus was quoted many times in your collective response to me, I feel like I’m not treading any new ground here)
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (oops, did I type that twice?)
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (I didn’t copy and paste three times in a row, did I? I’ll throw in a cross for good measure)
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If the cross I typed doesn’t work out, celebrate your victory! You single-handedly proved Yaweh is imaginary because my ASCII characters aren’t working! WAY. TO. GO. LEUKOCYTES!
Each of you leukocytes, please note that the Gospel of John Chapter 3 Verse 16 does not read: “whosoever accepts the irrefutable proof of God should not perish, but have everlasting life.” It says “whosoever believeth in him.” “To believe” means “to accept as truth something which cannot be proven.” You do it all the time.
Nerd of Redhead, I remind you and all your fellow “Gnu Atheists” that no proof of the power and sovereignty of God is forthcoming. You can wait for it and pitch a red-faced toddler fit when you don’t get it, but it’s not going to happen. God is not going to descend from his throne and tell you in no uncertain terms, “Here I am in the mutha-effin hizouse!!”
You not only accept but embrace gravity. None of you can prove it, but gravity does not require proof to be accepted by Gnu Atheists. You accept love, but “proof of love” gets a pass. None of you can prove that love exists, but love does not require proof to be accepted by Gnu Atheists (or anyone else). Holding the entire universe accountable to the scientific method seems kind of silly outside the context of science. Prove Shakespeare is the best English-language playwright of his day. Prove Beauty. Better than that – prove physical beauty among human beings. Provide proof the non-existence of God. Prove a Godless creation. Prove that “we hold these truths to be self evident.” Prove Barack Hussein Obama gave us the hope and change we can believe in. (seriously, there’s a Nobel Prize hanging in the balance Pharangulytes!!) Prove the Pythagorean Theorem. Prove Relativity. Prove that you are not all closed-minded.
To make a leap of faith requires LEAPING. It doesn’t require proving. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be “belief,” it would be “knowledge.”
Can any among you leap?
Psalm 19 (I can’t help it! Apologies to Paul Zachary)
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge.
3 They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them.
4 Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” (PZ’s feelings are really gonna be hurt if he finds out that I typed the same bible verse so many times times in his blog.)
How many things in your life to you accept as “truth” without proof? Gravity, love, the infallibility of the Federal Reserve System, tomorrow morning, a sequel to the last great blockbuster movie you saw, etc. etc. etc. Does the author and finisher of life deserve to be given the same latitude as the assumption that traffic lights are 100% infallible 100% of the time or that your deposits are really insured by the full faith and credit of the United States Government? If you’re a Christian, the answer is absolutely ”yes, and then some.”
If you’re an anti-theist, your answer is, and I quote from John Morales: “Forget that you know fuck-all about not having a yoke upon your psyche: consider that you can’t even aver to what your putative deity’s morphology (or lack of it) might be, yet you purport to speak on its behalf… Your mythos may exist even now, but it’s no less primitive than that of its progenitors, such accumulated “theology” as Christendom has accrued since its inception (and such schismatism as has fragmented it unto the fourth decadal order of magnitude) notwithstanding. Bah.”
To me, there is nothing so emphatic in all of English language as a “bah” from John Morales (or whoever he/she/it is in real life). Seriously, that is the single best quote ever written on my behalf, and if I ever write a book, I’m going to be sure to include it.
You leukocytes will have my attention if your collective responses don’t employ Items 1-10 above. If you employ them, you won’t hurt my feelings or scare me away, you will merely prove your collective selves as being devoid of original thought.
I won’t be impressed, dissuaded, or intimidated by your demand for proof, your employment of hyperbole and sarcasm, your abandoning context, your majority = all pretense, your victimhood, your condescension, lies, profanity, or buzzwords. A flashlight needs to shine all the way deep up in here. Atheism is not a destination; atheism is merely a rest stop on the road to truth. Drink up leukocytes! Scorching hot days ahead!
Nerd of Redhead, you never “scorched my tail feathers”, you anonymous weak little poster, you merely hid behind a pseudonym in an anonymous mob on the internet and wrote more replies than a single person with a job (me) could deal with in one sitting.
John Morales (I can’t believe you’d pass on the opportunity to titillate your peers by typing the words penis and fuck over and over again. Bah!), your heart-felt words amuse me.
You’ll note that I didn’t discourage any of you from employing ad hominem attacks on me, so feel free to call me names, make stuff up about me, pretend I’m stupid, pretend I’m afraid of you, pretend I’m a group of teenagers, whatever gets you through this post feeling smug and superior.
Chances are I’ll ignore you until your not-quite-fearless leader Paul Zachary posts something that I feel merits a reply.
My feelings are not hurt when you substitute quoting bible verses for rational thought: you merely confirm that you aren’t very bright. Stop now. Godbotting is grounds for banning.
True Reason, the book, is now available. Authors of new book highlight irrationality of atheists’ and the Reason Rally claim to be defenders of reason.
Press release here http://ratiochristi.org/blog/post/christians-respond-to-the-extreme-claims-of-the-reason-rally
Can be purchased here http://www.amazon.com/True-Reason-Christian-Responses-ebook/dp/B007J71S62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331555799&sr=8-1
There is one thing conspicuously absent from PZ’s diatribe and the subsequent fawning comments from his acolytes: Reason.
This blog is such a hoot! One seldom encounters so much self-congratulation. There should be a lot of that (but little reason) on display at the rally.