Ken Ham blogs about my Creation Museum lecture! »« I am a technology n00b, help!

My Letter to the Editor

I guess the Exponent has been running it’s special “Jennifer McCreight Edition” over the last couple of days. Not only was I quoted in two articles yesterday, but my letter to the editor was printed today:

PSUB’s ‘Porn and Popcorn’ slandered non-Christians

Publication Date: 09/22/2009

Last time I checked, PSUB’s purpose is to “Present programs designed to meet current entertainment, cultural, recreational, social, and educational needs of students.” So why did they sponsor the Stewart Cooperative’s Porn and Popcorn event Sept. 11?

The event was a Christian anti-pornography event full of emotional arguments and void of scientific information. They presented gross misconceptions and outright lies about human sexuality to young adults, individuals who need proper health information the most. They went as far to say that “Protective sex is a joke” and that you would get diseases and pregnant no matter what sort of contraception you used, which is simply not true. Is this the kind of “educational” event PSUB sponsors?

Not only that, but the event slandered non-Christian students by stating that “To connect with an unbeliever is to connect with the devil” and “If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you.” As an atheist and the President of the Society of Non-Theists, I am extremely concerned that PSUB would sponsor an event that told downright lies about a significant percentage of Purdue’s student body. Non-believers are just as faithful to their partners as Christians, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous and unfounded.

If religious groups want to put on biased programming that alienates people, go ahead. But PSUB is supposed to represent the entire student body, and for them to fund this is unacceptable. Why doesn’t PSUB remain religiously neutral like RHA?

Their only reply to my concerns was a form e-mail stating that Stewart Cooperative’s “application met our requirements.” So PSUB, once someone gets your money, they can do whatever they want with it? It doesn’t matter if their event is an unwelcoming environment for many students or contrary to PSUB’s purpose?

Jennifer McCreight

Senior in the College of Science

Let’s see if I get any responses!

Comments

  1. says

    What’s that distant rumbling I hear? Sounds like a ball rolling. (Or something.)Good letter. Thought it could’ve been a little expanded on in some points, perhaps even adding a tiny smidgen of rightful outrage, it’s definitely good enough to ensure a discussion should start – with the ball in your camp from the start.

  2. says

    What’s that distant rumbling I hear? Sounds like a ball rolling. (Or something.)

    Good letter. Thought it could’ve been a little expanded on in some points, perhaps even adding a tiny smidgen of rightful outrage, it’s definitely good enough to ensure a discussion should start – with the ball in your camp from the start.

  3. says

    Here’s hoping that it gets the ball rolling. It is a good letter. I’m surprised it was that long and managed to get published in the paper; a lot of letters to the editor as big as that or even a little smaller tend to be cut for space.

  4. says

    Here's hoping that it gets the ball rolling. It is a good letter. I'm surprised it was that long and managed to get published in the paper; a lot of letters to the editor as big as that or even a little smaller tend to be cut for space.

  5. says

    Well written, Jen. I can see where it might have been longer, but most papers have a word limit. Perhaps if this goes on over a few weeks they’ll invite you to write a guest editorial. Editors love them, they take up more space.(Edited for a ridiculous grammatical error.)

  6. says

    Well written, Jen. I can see where it might have been longer, but most papers have a word limit. Perhaps if this goes on over a few weeks they'll invite you to write a guest editorial. Editors love them, they take up more space.

    (Edited for a ridiculous grammatical error.)

  7. says

    Hmmm… as one of the speakers, I’m wondering if you’d be so kind as to share an example of the “gross misconceptions and outright lies about human sexuality to young adults” that we presented so that such can be avoided in the future.Thanks in advance,Donny Pauling

  8. says

    Hmmm… as one of the speakers, I'm wondering if you'd be so kind as to share an example of the "gross misconceptions and outright lies about human sexuality to young adults" that we presented so that such can be avoided in the future.

    Thanks in advance,

    Donny Pauling

  9. says

    “His car broke down and while the mechanic told him it was something wrong with the spark plug, he knew it was God. “Um, no. Never ever did I say that. The car didn’t break down. Many of your bullet points weren’t said either.I don’t mind criticism, but intellectually dishonest criticism is, well… dishonest.

  10. says

    "His car broke down and while the mechanic told him it was something wrong with the spark plug, he knew it was God. "

    Um, no. Never ever did I say that. The car didn't break down.

    Many of your bullet points weren't said either.

    I don't mind criticism, but intellectually dishonest criticism is, well… dishonest.

  11. says

    Believe it or not, Jen, I was one of the “nice” porn producers. The industry is full of scum. It sucks the life out of the performers. Many turn to drugs. I’m not sure what your point is in suggesting that is not the case. Porn is not at all glamorous, and my point in speaking about the realities of the business is not to shut it down, but to give intelligent people such as yourself more data to consider before deciding to support it by consuming it.

  12. says

    Believe it or not, Jen, I was one of the "nice" porn producers. The industry is full of scum. It sucks the life out of the performers. Many turn to drugs. I'm not sure what your point is in suggesting that is not the case. Porn is not at all glamorous, and my point in speaking about the realities of the business is not to shut it down, but to give intelligent people such as yourself more data to consider before deciding to support it by consuming it.

  13. says

    And I should probably clarify, before you make your next statement, that I am not saying I was a nice guy. I am saying that most others in the business are even worse.

  14. says

    And I should probably clarify, before you make your next statement, that I am not saying I was a nice guy. I am saying that most others in the business are even worse.

  15. says

    Odd, how you say these things were never said, since I was sitting there with a notebook and immediately writing everything down…and how I verified with others in my group if what I thought I heard was correct. If 25 people all misheard the same quotes, I’m not quite sure what was going on.

  16. says

    Odd, how you say these things were never said, since I was sitting there with a notebook and immediately writing everything down…and how I verified with others in my group if what I thought I heard was correct. If 25 people all misheard the same quotes, I'm not quite sure what was going on.

  17. says

    Jen,Go watch the video I linked to. You’ll discover how badly you misquoted me (for example: I never once mention my car breaking down, a mechanic or anything at all about spark plugs. I said my best friend, an agnostic, didn’t believe me when I told him about the electricity that knocked my breath out. He said, “your car must have had a short in it”. The car was a brand new Accord – it didn’t have any electrical shorts). Read Shellie’s book and you’ll discover how badly you misquoted her (she read from her book many times).I get it: you went to the event convinced you’d hate it (as evidenced by your pre-event postings). You’d already set the mood for yourself, and needed to justify those feelings. I totally get it. It’s not like I haven’t been in the same position before. And being as I’ve been in that position, I can tell you that you don’t need to skew facts and quotes to poke holes in anything we said. For an atheist, there are plenty of areas you could “attack”. Staying truthful, however, is the only way to remain believable. Your articles would be better if you’d said something like, “I might have exaggerated a bit here and there”.

  18. says

    Jen,

    Go watch the video I linked to. You'll discover how badly you misquoted me (for example: I never once mention my car breaking down, a mechanic or anything at all about spark plugs. I said my best friend, an agnostic, didn't believe me when I told him about the electricity that knocked my breath out. He said, "your car must have had a short in it". The car was a brand new Accord – it didn't have any electrical shorts). Read Shellie's book and you'll discover how badly you misquoted her (she read from her book many times).

    I get it: you went to the event convinced you'd hate it (as evidenced by your pre-event postings). You'd already set the mood for yourself, and needed to justify those feelings. I totally get it. It's not like I haven't been in the same position before. And being as I've been in that position, I can tell you that you don't need to skew facts and quotes to poke holes in anything we said. For an atheist, there are plenty of areas you could "attack". Staying truthful, however, is the only way to remain believable. Your articles would be better if you'd said something like, "I might have exaggerated a bit here and there".

  19. Anonymous says

    Donnie, I’m listening to your speech at the church in LA off your about page. I’m not going to get involved in the he said/she said of the Purdue event because I wasn’t there, but Jen’s main points stand.You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn’t as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was. A little while ago I was gone for a week, and my wife confessed that she looked at porn while I was gone because she was sexually frustrated. Sure the whole thing was a little hypocritical, but I really didn’t care. Was she cheating on me? No, she wasn’t sleeping with somebody else. She needed a sexual release that wasn’t available when I was gone. We discussed it, and started realizing it’s not this terrible thing that her Christian upbringing taught her. Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?I’m sure I’ll be accused of not understanding because I’m an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don’t know it. But you are submitting that this is not allowed and immoral, you even bring in the Old Testament (Why doesn’t god smite porn studios?). This is a normal healthy thing that much of Christianity has put a stigma on. Furthermore, I just want to point out that sexual compatability is a large part of a relationship. Yes there’s a lot more, but it’s still a big part, and when you tell people “no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may be”, you further promote the problem. Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her?

  20. Anonymous says

    Donnie, I'm listening to your speech at the church in LA off your about page. I'm not going to get involved in the he said/she said of the Purdue event because I wasn't there, but Jen's main points stand.

    You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn't as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was. A little while ago I was gone for a week, and my wife confessed that she looked at porn while I was gone because she was sexually frustrated. Sure the whole thing was a little hypocritical, but I really didn't care. Was she cheating on me? No, she wasn't sleeping with somebody else. She needed a sexual release that wasn't available when I was gone. We discussed it, and started realizing it's not this terrible thing that her Christian upbringing taught her. Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?

    I'm sure I'll be accused of not understanding because I'm an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don't know it. But you are submitting that this is not allowed and immoral, you even bring in the Old Testament (Why doesn't god smite porn studios?). This is a normal healthy thing that much of Christianity has put a stigma on. Furthermore, I just want to point out that sexual compatability is a large part of a relationship. Yes there's a lot more, but it's still a big part, and when you tell people "no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may be", you further promote the problem. Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her?

  21. says

    “Anonymous”,You come across as an intelligent person. I’m going to put your words in bold/italic and respond.you even bring in the Old TestamentWas it not clear that I was reading from a letter at that point? Perhaps instead of listening to that audio file you might want to watch the video on the same page.You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn’t as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was.That’s excellent! You respected your wife’s request. However, the wife being discussed at the opening of my talk did NOT have such a husband. The point of my reading that letter is to open up the eyes of the listener, and in the very talk you listened to the mission was accomplished: a man had a very long discussion with me afterwards where he told me his wife said some of the same things mentioned in that letter, but that it impacted him harder hearing it from someone else. He “got it”. And that, my anonymous friend, was the whole point: making people THINK and consider a larger body of information.Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?Where have I stigmatized masturbation? I’ve not made my opinions on the matter publicly known.As for porn, I know a LOT about it, as I produced it for nine years. There is nothing good about porn. Nothing at all. I’m sure I’ll be accused of not understanding because I’m an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don’t know it. It’s sad to me that you’d think that. I am not one of those people who think Christians hold a monopoly on truth. You’re a thinking, intelligent person. I’m sure you’re quite capable of “understanding” as long as your mind is open to considering a larger knowledge database. I personally feel like it is cheating to allow oneself to fixate on another human being other than the person one is committed to, be that a coworker or a “fantasy girl” on screen. Cheating, however, is NOT a focal point of my talk. My goal is to present the reality of what goes on behind the scenes of porn production so that you, the intelligent viewer, can make more informed decisions.

  22. says

    "Anonymous",

    You come across as an intelligent person. I'm going to put your words in bold/italic and respond.

    you even bring in the Old Testament

    Was it not clear that I was reading from a letter at that point? Perhaps instead of listening to that audio file you might want to watch the video on the same page.

    You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn't as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was.

    That's excellent! You respected your wife's request. However, the wife being discussed at the opening of my talk did NOT have such a husband. The point of my reading that letter is to open up the eyes of the listener, and in the very talk you listened to the mission was accomplished: a man had a very long discussion with me afterwards where he told me his wife said some of the same things mentioned in that letter, but that it impacted him harder hearing it from someone else. He "got it".

    And that, my anonymous friend, was the whole point: making people THINK and consider a larger body of information.

    Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?

    Where have I stigmatized masturbation? I've not made my opinions on the matter publicly known.

    As for porn, I know a LOT about it, as I produced it for nine years. There is nothing good about porn. Nothing at all.

    I'm sure I'll be accused of not understanding because I'm an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don't know it.

    It's sad to me that you'd think that. I am not one of those people who think Christians hold a monopoly on truth. You're a thinking, intelligent person. I'm sure you're quite capable of "understanding" as long as your mind is open to considering a larger knowledge database.

    I personally feel like it is cheating to allow oneself to fixate on another human being other than the person one is committed to, be that a coworker or a "fantasy girl" on screen. Cheating, however, is NOT a focal point of my talk. My goal is to present the reality of what goes on behind the scenes of porn production so that you, the intelligent viewer, can make more informed decisions.

  23. says

    when you tell people no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may beHumans have a lot of “normal” impulses. Since we’re not dumb animals we don’t have to give in to those desires. For example: many people have impulses to engage in sex with minors, but most resist those urges because our society has agreed that until a person reaches a certain age, those above that age should not engage in such behavior with those below “adult” age. The reasons for such opinions are another matter of discussion.The reason I think “no sex before marriage” is ideal is this: sex creates heartstrings and bonds two people together (amongst many other things). Relationships are hard enough as it is without having to deal with all the baggage from previous relationships. In an ideal world, once two people married they’d be able to focus only on each other, rather than having to worry if their spouse’s past partners were better in bed, if he/she is thinking of someone they used to sleep with, etc. We’re all capable of making free will decisions, and nobody from XXXChurch wants to dictate what YOU can or cannot do. Our goal is to educate and ask you to think about the larger picture. Do you have an issue with that?Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her? See, now you’re speaking my language. I absolutely agree that a man should not watch porn if his wife doesn’t want him to watch porn. He should honor her request, regardless of WHY she feels that way. He did, after all, marry her. If he wanted to be with a woman who loved watching porn along with him perhaps that is a discussion they should have had before making a commitment.”Anonymous”,You come across as an intelligent person. I’m going to put your words in bold/italic and respond.you even bring in the Old TestamentWas it not clear that I was reading from a letter at that point? Perhaps instead of listening to that audio file you might want to watch the video on the same page.You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn’t as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was.That’s excellent! You respected your wife’s request. However, the wife being discussed at the opening of my talk did NOT have such a husband. The point of my reading that letter is to open up the eyes of the listener, and in the very talk you listened to the mission was accomplished: a man had a very long discussion with me afterwards where he told me his wife said some of the same things mentioned in that letter, but that it impacted him harder hearing it from someone else. He “got it”. And that, my anonymous friend, was the whole point: making people THINK and consider a larger body of information.

  24. says

    when you tell people no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may be

    Humans have a lot of "normal" impulses. Since we're not dumb animals we don't have to give in to those desires. For example: many people have impulses to engage in sex with minors, but most resist those urges because our society has agreed that until a person reaches a certain age, those above that age should not engage in such behavior with those below "adult" age. The reasons for such opinions are another matter of discussion.

    The reason I think "no sex before marriage" is ideal is this: sex creates heartstrings and bonds two people together (amongst many other things). Relationships are hard enough as it is without having to deal with all the baggage from previous relationships. In an ideal world, once two people married they'd be able to focus only on each other, rather than having to worry if their spouse's past partners were better in bed, if he/she is thinking of someone they used to sleep with, etc.

    We're all capable of making free will decisions, and nobody from XXXChurch wants to dictate what YOU can or cannot do. Our goal is to educate and ask you to think about the larger picture. Do you have an issue with that?

    Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her?

    See, now you're speaking my language. I absolutely agree that a man should not watch porn if his wife doesn't want him to watch porn. He should honor her request, regardless of WHY she feels that way. He did, after all, marry her. If he wanted to be with a woman who loved watching porn along with him perhaps that is a discussion they should have had before making a commitment.

    "Anonymous",

    You come across as an intelligent person. I'm going to put your words in bold/italic and respond.

    you even bring in the Old Testament

    Was it not clear that I was reading from a letter at that point? Perhaps instead of listening to that audio file you might want to watch the video on the same page.

    You open up with the sob story about a wife whose husband keeps looking at porn. I (an Atheist) am married to a Christian, when we were dating she asked me to stop looking at porn, and was rather angry that I was looking at it before she asked. I quit because porn wasn't as important to me as her, and we had a fulfilling sex life as it was.

    That's excellent! You respected your wife's request. However, the wife being discussed at the opening of my talk did NOT have such a husband. The point of my reading that letter is to open up the eyes of the listener, and in the very talk you listened to the mission was accomplished: a man had a very long discussion with me afterwards where he told me his wife said some of the same things mentioned in that letter, but that it impacted him harder hearing it from someone else. He "got it".

    And that, my anonymous friend, was the whole point: making people THINK and consider a larger body of information.

  25. says

    Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?Where have I stigmatized masturbation? I’ve not made my opinions on the matter publicly known.As for porn, I know a LOT about it, as I produced it for nine years. There is nothing good about porn. Nothing at all. I’m sure I’ll be accused of not understanding because I’m an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don’t know it. It’s sad to me that you’d think that. I am not one of those people who think Christians hold a monopoly on truth. You’re a thinking, intelligent person. I’m sure you’re quite capable of “understanding” as long as your mind is open to considering a larger knowledge database. I personally feel like it is cheating to allow oneself to fixate on another human being other than the person one is committed to, be that a coworker or a “fantasy girl” on screen. Cheating, however, is NOT a focal point of my talk. My goal is to present the reality of what goes on behind the scenes of porn production so that you, the intelligent viewer, can make more informed decisions. when you tell people no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may beHumans have a lot of “normal” impulses. Since we’re not dumb animals we don’t have to give in to those desires. For example: many people have impulses to engage in sex with minors, but most resist those urges because our society has agreed that until a person reaches a certain age, those above that age should not engage in such behavior with those below “adult” age. The reasons for such opinions are another matter of discussion.The reason I think “no sex before marriage” is ideal is this: sex creates heartstrings and bonds two people together (amongst many other things). Relationships are hard enough as it is without having to deal with all the baggage from previous relationships. In an ideal world, once two people married they’d be able to focus only on each other, rather than having to worry if their spouse’s past partners were better in bed, if he/she is thinking of someone they used to sleep with, etc. We’re all capable of making free will decisions, and nobody from XXXChurch wants to dictate what YOU can or cannot do. Our goal is to educate and ask you to think about the larger picture. Do you have an issue with that?Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her? See, now you’re speaking my language. I absolutely agree that a man should not watch porn if his wife doesn’t want him to watch porn. He should honor her request, regardless of WHY she feels that way. He did, after all, marry her. If he wanted to be with a woman who loved watching porn along with him perhaps that is a discussion they should have had before making a commitment. Pardon me if I’m wrong, but you seem to be making assumptions as to what my opinions might be. I’d encourage you to ask, rather than assume.

  26. says

    Psychiatrists recognize masturbation as a normal, healthy thing, why do you stigmatize it?

    Where have I stigmatized masturbation? I've not made my opinions on the matter publicly known.

    As for porn, I know a LOT about it, as I produced it for nine years. There is nothing good about porn. Nothing at all.

    I'm sure I'll be accused of not understanding because I'm an Atheist, or that its cheating and I just don't know it.

    It's sad to me that you'd think that. I am not one of those people who think Christians hold a monopoly on truth. You're a thinking, intelligent person. I'm sure you're quite capable of "understanding" as long as your mind is open to considering a larger knowledge database.

    I personally feel like it is cheating to allow oneself to fixate on another human being other than the person one is committed to, be that a coworker or a "fantasy girl" on screen. Cheating, however, is NOT a focal point of my talk. My goal is to present the reality of what goes on behind the scenes of porn production so that you, the intelligent viewer, can make more informed decisions.

    when you tell people no sex before marriage, repress all your desires, no matter how normal or healthy they may be

    Humans have a lot of "normal" impulses. Since we're not dumb animals we don't have to give in to those desires. For example: many people have impulses to engage in sex with minors, but most resist those urges because our society has agreed that until a person reaches a certain age, those above that age should not engage in such behavior with those below "adult" age. The reasons for such opinions are another matter of discussion.

    The reason I think "no sex before marriage" is ideal is this: sex creates heartstrings and bonds two people together (amongst many other things). Relationships are hard enough as it is without having to deal with all the baggage from previous relationships. In an ideal world, once two people married they'd be able to focus only on each other, rather than having to worry if their spouse's past partners were better in bed, if he/she is thinking of someone they used to sleep with, etc.

    We're all capable of making free will decisions, and nobody from XXXChurch wants to dictate what YOU can or cannot do. Our goal is to educate and ask you to think about the larger picture. Do you have an issue with that?

    Should a man watch porn when his wife has a problem with it? No, but I would further it by asking why does she dislike porn, and why does he feel the need to get his release from porn and not with her?

    See, now you're speaking my language. I absolutely agree that a man should not watch porn if his wife doesn't want him to watch porn. He should honor her request, regardless of WHY she feels that way. He did, after all, marry her. If he wanted to be with a woman who loved watching porn along with him perhaps that is a discussion they should have had before making a commitment.

    Pardon me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be making assumptions as to what my opinions might be. I'd encourage you to ask, rather than assume.

  27. Anonymous says

    I should have clarified. When I say stigmatize masturbation, I mean while looking at porn as well. For a great many people watching porn is not to fantasize about the girl or guy in the video, but are looking for a “sexual inspiration” to further enjoy pleasing themselves. I have no problem admitting that a great many productions are nothing but very shady businesses with less then ethical practices, (and that should be noted) but porn in and of itself does not have to be so (and not all of it is).Take my cousin. He, and his ex-wife saved themselves for marriage. Things were great for the first year, until lo and behold they were not sexually compatible. He needed a release and looked at porn. She got mad and divorced. Was he right to look at porn? No, but had they not waited for marriage this would have been known before making a life time commitment. They got married without considering sex and it was wrong.Conversely, I grew up in a very Christian area, and many of my friends got married at 18-19, about a third of them are still together 7 years later. I can tell you that every one of them got married that young because they couldn’t wait to have sex and this was the only acceptable way to do it in our town. They got married strictly because of sex, and it wasn’t right either.Sex is a huge part of a relationship and if you can’t handle the thought of your wife/husband’s previous partners YOU have a jealousy problem.Comparing porn to pedophilia is way off base, in the first place I was reffering to healthy, normal impulses, I don’t think anyone would call pedophilia normal. Secondly, I fail to see what is wrong with looking at porn.I’m happy to see that XXXChurch doesn’t seek to force beliefs on everybody, and I didn’t assume that you did, especially after reading your about page. I apologize about the Old Testament line, when listening to it your voice implied to me that you were adding your personal comment into the letter. Furthermore I apologize for implying you would accuse me, many times me and my wife are told that she can’t be married to me because of my beliefs and some of Jen’s original points said this was mentioned in the presentation, which I freely admit I haven’t seen (Did you guys record it? I would love to see it)

  28. Anonymous says

    I should have clarified. When I say stigmatize masturbation, I mean while looking at porn as well. For a great many people watching porn is not to fantasize about the girl or guy in the video, but are looking for a "sexual inspiration" to further enjoy pleasing themselves. I have no problem admitting that a great many productions are nothing but very shady businesses with less then ethical practices, (and that should be noted) but porn in and of itself does not have to be so (and not all of it is).

    Take my cousin. He, and his ex-wife saved themselves for marriage. Things were great for the first year, until lo and behold they were not sexually compatible. He needed a release and looked at porn. She got mad and divorced. Was he right to look at porn? No, but had they not waited for marriage this would have been known before making a life time commitment. They got married without considering sex and it was wrong.

    Conversely, I grew up in a very Christian area, and many of my friends got married at 18-19, about a third of them are still together 7 years later. I can tell you that every one of them got married that young because they couldn't wait to have sex and this was the only acceptable way to do it in our town. They got married strictly because of sex, and it wasn't right either.

    Sex is a huge part of a relationship and if you can't handle the thought of your wife/husband's previous partners YOU have a jealousy problem.

    Comparing porn to pedophilia is way off base, in the first place I was reffering to healthy, normal impulses, I don't think anyone would call pedophilia normal. Secondly, I fail to see what is wrong with looking at porn.

    I'm happy to see that XXXChurch doesn't seek to force beliefs on everybody, and I didn't assume that you did, especially after reading your about page. I apologize about the Old Testament line, when listening to it your voice implied to me that you were adding your personal comment into the letter. Furthermore I apologize for implying you would accuse me, many times me and my wife are told that she can't be married to me because of my beliefs and some of Jen's original points said this was mentioned in the presentation, which I freely admit I haven't seen (Did you guys record it? I would love to see it)

  29. Pablo says

    Appropos of little, there is actually a very good compromise for those couples where the guy likes porn but the wife thinks it’s “cheating” somehow. It’s called “a digital camera.”If a wife’s real objection to porn is that the guy is “looking at other naked women” then she shouldn’t have any problems of him looking at HER naked, right?Get out the camera, take pictures, take video. Tell him, if he wants to get his jollies off, he can watch her (and himself).Sometimes when I make this recommendation, the women jump at it, and think it a good idea. Other times, however, they go oddly silent. It makes me wonder if their objection goes beyond “looking at other naked women”?

  30. Pablo says

    Appropos of little, there is actually a very good compromise for those couples where the guy likes porn but the wife thinks it's "cheating" somehow. It's called "a digital camera."

    If a wife's real objection to porn is that the guy is "looking at other naked women" then she shouldn't have any problems of him looking at HER naked, right?

    Get out the camera, take pictures, take video. Tell him, if he wants to get his jollies off, he can watch her (and himself).

    Sometimes when I make this recommendation, the women jump at it, and think it a good idea. Other times, however, they go oddly silent. It makes me wonder if their objection goes beyond "looking at other naked women"?

  31. Jeff says

    Donny, I found no video from the Porn and Popcorn night on your about page.Are you suggesting a video from another event is proof of what you said at a different event?Thats not how it works.

  32. Jeff says

    Donny, I found no video from the Porn and Popcorn night on your about page.

    Are you suggesting a video from another event is proof of what you said at a different event?

    Thats not how it works.

  33. says

    Jeff, why in the world would I tell different stories about the shock I received in my car? I’ve spoken in front of more than 4 million people now, and that story has never changed. There are multiple sources available for comparison.

  34. says

    Jeff, why in the world would I tell different stories about the shock I received in my car? I've spoken in front of more than 4 million people now, and that story has never changed. There are multiple sources available for comparison.

  35. Julie says

    I was also one of the members of the audience at the P&P event, and I can verify that Donny did not say that he took the car to a mechanic, and he never said anything about spark plus. I got the impression that Jen was being flippant and humorous about that part, but if she really thinks that’s what was said, she is in fact wrong.However, Shellie WAS introduced to us at the beginning of the talk as a “former porn actress”. If that’s not true, it’s on you guys, not us. And absolutely everything she quotes Shellie as having said is dead on. That woman was a rambling, incoherent mess and many people in the audience (not just our group) were in turns giggling at how strange she was, and groaning at some of the hateful things that would come out of her mouth.

  36. Julie says

    I was also one of the members of the audience at the P&P event, and I can verify that Donny did not say that he took the car to a mechanic, and he never said anything about spark plus. I got the impression that Jen was being flippant and humorous about that part, but if she really thinks that's what was said, she is in fact wrong.

    However, Shellie WAS introduced to us at the beginning of the talk as a "former porn actress". If that's not true, it's on you guys, not us. And absolutely everything she quotes Shellie as having said is dead on. That woman was a rambling, incoherent mess and many people in the audience (not just our group) were in turns giggling at how strange she was, and groaning at some of the hateful things that would come out of her mouth.

  37. Anonymous says

    Ok, you received what you perceived to be an electrical shock in your car. Could this be an electrical problem in your car? No, no, electrical shocks aren’t caused by electrical problems, we all know that random electrical shocks have to be God, case closed. Whether or not you consulted a mechanic about your spark plug, you need to consult your common sense. So even if you strip away any hyperbole, the story is still ridiculous because you were…shocked…by…your…car… end of story, I see no evidence of God. Some of the misconceptions about sex:Contraceptives are a joke – lie…Atheists cant be faithful – lie…Everyone that makes porn hates it – lie…Watching porn results in rape – lie…Female masturbation is like getting fried chicken grease on a clean glass cup – stupid and inaccurate…By the way, I attended the event in question so I’m not hearing my facts second hand.

  38. Anonymous says

    Ok, you received what you perceived to be an electrical shock in your car. Could this be an electrical problem in your car? No, no, electrical shocks aren't caused by electrical problems, we all know that random electrical shocks have to be God, case closed.

    Whether or not you consulted a mechanic about your spark plug, you need to consult your common sense. So even if you strip away any hyperbole, the story is still ridiculous because you were…shocked…by…your…car… end of story, I see no evidence of God.

    Some of the misconceptions about sex:Contraceptives are a joke – lie…Atheists cant be faithful – lie…Everyone that makes porn hates it – lie…Watching porn results in rape – lie…Female masturbation is like getting fried chicken grease on a clean glass cup – stupid and inaccurate…

    By the way, I attended the event in question so I'm not hearing my facts second hand.

  39. says

    Anonymous – See, now there are two of you posting using the same name. Couldn’t you make up a name or something? I think I’ll call you Herbert.Anyway, Herbert – my story about the shock is kinda pointless to discuss. We could go back and forth on it all night long. I was in my brand new car, sitting on leather seats, holding a leather steering wheel, and had my breath knocked out by something I can only liken to an electrical shock. At the same time thoughts were implanted inside my brain. You can label that in whatever way you need to label it. Feel free.As for any sorts of statements regarding contraceptives being a joke: if you said something like, “That economics class was a joke! I learned nothing today!” I’m sure we both understand the meaning. Shellie’s meaning was just as clear: contraceptives, often times, are a joke. My cousin and her husband just learned she’s pregnant again, even though she was on birth control. A very normal thing to say in a situation like that? “Contraceptives are a joke!” Unless you live under a rock, you’ve undoubtedly heard similar stories. A condom breaks. A pill is ineffective. Etc Etc. A very likely statement in such situations? “Contraceptives are a joke!”So why be intellectually dishonest about it? You might not have heard the part where Shellie discusses the work she does in Nashville, working with at-risk kids. One of the girls she works with is a mother at age 11. Our society tells us that if we educate our kids about contraception we’ll prevent such pregnancies. Well, this girl knew all about them, yet is still a mother. Is it hard to imagine this statement applied to such a situation? “Contraceptives are a joke!”See, that’s not so hard to comprehend, now is it Herbert? The best way to prevent pregnancy and disease is to abstain. Do you disagree?I’ll continue addressing the rest of your lines in a second…

  40. says

    Anonymous – See, now there are two of you posting using the same name. Couldn't you make up a name or something? I think I'll call you Herbert.

    Anyway, Herbert – my story about the shock is kinda pointless to discuss. We could go back and forth on it all night long. I was in my brand new car, sitting on leather seats, holding a leather steering wheel, and had my breath knocked out by something I can only liken to an electrical shock. At the same time thoughts were implanted inside my brain. You can label that in whatever way you need to label it. Feel free.

    As for any sorts of statements regarding contraceptives being a joke: if you said something like, "That economics class was a joke! I learned nothing today!" I'm sure we both understand the meaning. Shellie's meaning was just as clear: contraceptives, often times, are a joke.

    My cousin and her husband just learned she's pregnant again, even though she was on birth control. A very normal thing to say in a situation like that? "Contraceptives are a joke!"

    Unless you live under a rock, you've undoubtedly heard similar stories. A condom breaks. A pill is ineffective. Etc Etc. A very likely statement in such situations? "Contraceptives are a joke!"

    So why be intellectually dishonest about it? You might not have heard the part where Shellie discusses the work she does in Nashville, working with at-risk kids. One of the girls she works with is a mother at age 11. Our society tells us that if we educate our kids about contraception we'll prevent such pregnancies. Well, this girl knew all about them, yet is still a mother. Is it hard to imagine this statement applied to such a situation? "Contraceptives are a joke!"

    See, that's not so hard to comprehend, now is it Herbert? The best way to prevent pregnancy and disease is to abstain. Do you disagree?

    I'll continue addressing the rest of your lines in a second…

  41. says

    “Atheists can’t be faithful…”Shellie never said that. Ever. She said, “If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you.” Do you have a background in church? If so, I’m sure you’ve heard plenty of other “speakers” say the same thing. It’s a common phrase – what we mean when we say this is that it shouldn’t be surprising to find out your man is unfaithful if it’s blatantly obvious he’s not living his life the way God asks us to live. I don’t think that was very hard to comprehend, either. But we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. It’s still intellectually dishonest to put words in her mouth, however.Everyone that makes porn hates it – lie…First of all, did I say that? Can you quote me word for word on that? No, you can’t. Because I’ve given this speech dozens of times and know what I say. I said that out of the 500 plus girls I recruited into this business, not one has ever come back and thanked me. But I’ve seen the light go out of their eyes. Are you now or have you ever been a porn producer? If so, you’d know what I’m talking about. The facts are, in my 9 years in the business I’ve never known a single person who enjoys making porn for the long run. Sure, some of them like it at first. But that doesn’t take long to go away. You’ll even see some “porn stars” on interviews talking about how wonderful their life is – but talk to them in private and the story is quite different. As an intelligent person I know you’ll understand this: point a camera in front of people and most of the time they’ll give you their best game face. Seems to be human nature. But I lived the life, Herbert. I know better. Even Ron Jeremy admits he’d much rather be mainstream than in porn.

  42. says

    "Atheists can't be faithful…"

    Shellie never said that. Ever. She said, "If he can't be faithful to God, he can't be faithful to you."

    Do you have a background in church? If so, I'm sure you've heard plenty of other "speakers" say the same thing. It's a common phrase – what we mean when we say this is that it shouldn't be surprising to find out your man is unfaithful if it's blatantly obvious he's not living his life the way God asks us to live.

    I don't think that was very hard to comprehend, either. But we'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's still intellectually dishonest to put words in her mouth, however.

    Everyone that makes porn hates it – lie…

    First of all, did I say that? Can you quote me word for word on that? No, you can't. Because I've given this speech dozens of times and know what I say. I said that out of the 500 plus girls I recruited into this business, not one has ever come back and thanked me. But I've seen the light go out of their eyes. Are you now or have you ever been a porn producer? If so, you'd know what I'm talking about. The facts are, in my 9 years in the business I've never known a single person who enjoys making porn for the long run. Sure, some of them like it at first. But that doesn't take long to go away. You'll even see some "porn stars" on interviews talking about how wonderful their life is – but talk to them in private and the story is quite different.

    As an intelligent person I know you'll understand this: point a camera in front of people and most of the time they'll give you their best game face. Seems to be human nature.

    But I lived the life, Herbert. I know better. Even Ron Jeremy admits he'd much rather be mainstream than in porn.

  43. says

    Watching porn results in rape – lie…Who said that? Again, you’re putting words into the mouths of the speakers. More intellectual dishonesty, Herbert.We say porn leads you down paths you never intended to go. And that is very true. Porn is progressive. The same ol’ thing gets boring, so you move to the next level. As stubbornly as you might want to argue with me, think about that for a minute and I’m sure you’ll see the truth in what I just said. If a person started off looking at Playboy 5 years ago, can you honestly tell me that they’re still only looking at Playboy today? Numerous rapists in prison claim their porn consumption is what gave them ideas they decided to live out. If those types of statements only came from a few of them it would be easier to dismiss. That’s not the case, though, Herbert.Female masturbation is like getting fried chicken grease on a clean glass cup – stupid and inaccurate…I have no argument with you here. I see the point Shellie’s trying to make but I don’t believe that particular illustration quite nails it down.Personally, my thoughts on masturbation are much closer to what this man has to say about it:Part 1 of 2 (7 minutes)Part 2 of 2 (9 minutes)

  44. says

    Watching porn results in rape – lie…

    Who said that? Again, you're putting words into the mouths of the speakers. More intellectual dishonesty, Herbert.

    We say porn leads you down paths you never intended to go. And that is very true. Porn is progressive. The same ol' thing gets boring, so you move to the next level. As stubbornly as you might want to argue with me, think about that for a minute and I'm sure you'll see the truth in what I just said. If a person started off looking at Playboy 5 years ago, can you honestly tell me that they're still only looking at Playboy today? Numerous rapists in prison claim their porn consumption is what gave them ideas they decided to live out. If those types of statements only came from a few of them it would be easier to dismiss. That's not the case, though, Herbert.

    Female masturbation is like getting fried chicken grease on a clean glass cup – stupid and inaccurate…

    I have no argument with you here. I see the point Shellie's trying to make but I don't believe that particular illustration quite nails it down.

    Personally, my thoughts on masturbation are much closer to what this man has to say about it:

    Part 1 of 2 (7 minutes)

    Part 2 of 2 (9 minutes)

  45. Herbert says

    Good guess on the name, did God tell you? Or your car, or wherever you’re getting your divine information?I’ve heard anecdotes about Christians raping little boys. I think we can only come to one conclusion here, Christianity is a joke. A condom with perfect use is about 98% effective. The pill with perfect use is about 99.7% effective. Lets have a little math lesson. The chance of the first failing is 2/100 or .02. The chance of the second failing is 3/1000 or .003. Multiplying the two (the equivalent of AND in probability) yields a 6/10,000 chance of becoming pregnant. You’re going to say “nobody uses these perfectly”, then educate them instead of telling them it’s a joke!On the other hand, the probability of dying in a car accident over your lifetime is about 1 in 100. I believe you still drive your car on a regular basis (even when it electrocutes you every once and awhile). I use car as an example, but there are so many other things that have a much higher chance than 6 in 10,000 of causing death but we still live.

  46. Herbert says

    Good guess on the name, did God tell you? Or your car, or wherever you're getting your divine information?

    I've heard anecdotes about Christians raping little boys. I think we can only come to one conclusion here, Christianity is a joke.

    A condom with perfect use is about 98% effective. The pill with perfect use is about 99.7% effective. Lets have a little math lesson. The chance of the first failing is 2/100 or .02. The chance of the second failing is 3/1000 or .003. Multiplying the two (the equivalent of AND in probability) yields a 6/10,000 chance of becoming pregnant. You're going to say "nobody uses these perfectly", then educate them instead of telling them it's a joke!

    On the other hand, the probability of dying in a car accident over your lifetime is about 1 in 100. I believe you still drive your car on a regular basis (even when it electrocutes you every once and awhile). I use car as an example, but there are so many other things that have a much higher chance than 6 in 10,000 of causing death but we still live.

  47. Herbert says

    How is saying that people that aren’t faithful to God can’t be faithful to women (not girls) any different than saying Athiests (clearly not faithful to God) can’t be faithful to women? I’m not putting words in her mouth I’m making a logical conclusion based on what she said. I haven’t been a commercial porn producer but I’ve produced porn for personal use, and I enjoyed it immensely. And so did my partner, who is a WOMAN (not a GIRL). We were shown videos of girls being raped, in an event that was about porn. Stop showing videos about rape out of context and your presentation wont be misconstrued. And you just said “nuh uh I didn’t say that” then you said it. Don’t accuse me of being dishonest then say what you say you’re not saying. I have watched plenty of porn and it hasn’t given me any rape ideas. You have the order backwards, they want to rape someone, they watch porn, they rape someone cause they’re a douchebag. NOT they watch porn, they say “hey, I never knew I could rape someone”, then they rape someone. They’re douchebags to start with, porn doesn’t make them that way.

  48. Herbert says

    How is saying that people that aren't faithful to God can't be faithful to women (not girls) any different than saying Athiests (clearly not faithful to God) can't be faithful to women? I'm not putting words in her mouth I'm making a logical conclusion based on what she said.

    I haven't been a commercial porn producer but I've produced porn for personal use, and I enjoyed it immensely. And so did my partner, who is a WOMAN (not a GIRL).

    We were shown videos of girls being raped, in an event that was about porn. Stop showing videos about rape out of context and your presentation wont be misconstrued. And you just said "nuh uh I didn't say that" then you said it. Don't accuse me of being dishonest then say what you say you're not saying. I have watched plenty of porn and it hasn't given me any rape ideas. You have the order backwards, they want to rape someone, they watch porn, they rape someone cause they're a douchebag. NOT they watch porn, they say "hey, I never knew I could rape someone", then they rape someone. They're douchebags to start with, porn doesn't make them that way.

  49. says

    It’s interesting, Donny, that you avoided one of Anonymous’ posts. I understand there are more of us than you, so you can’t reply to all of them, but said Anonymous’ post (“I should have clarified…”) I feel had some good points.At any rate, the entire presentation about how porn is bad is based upon the Christian faith. Or, really, any religious faith in general.This is a problem, as it is, indeed, faith. By definition that means this “authority” has no evidence (else it wouldn’t be faith). And I’ve not ever come across any reasonable evidence. But moving on. From there, people are taught, often from birth, that his/her own faith is correct and that to lead his/her life by said faith is the proper thing to do.So one’s own faith (in this case, the Christian faith) here is teaching that sex, in the case of porn, is wrong. And that masturbation is wrong. So naturally, one learning this faith (especially from birth!) is, and I hope you’ll forgive my terminology, essentially brainwashed into thinking that said things are bad.So when one naturally urges for these things, they are emotionally, “spiritually”, socially etc. conflicted. And they feel guilty. They feel sadness. Shame. Some might even feel terror, in fear of going to Hell.But these urges ARE natural, and ARE normal. To entirely lack sexual release (either through masturbation or through sex) would be endlessly physically frustrating.And yet most faiths teach to abstain. You’re right. It’s the perfect “contraception”. I can identify with those who wish to wait until marriage, generally, although I personally wouldn’t agree. And so one tends to abstain.But one becomes sexually frustrated. What to do, then? Biology dictates sexual release, but some unproven faith says otherwise. So most turn to either masturbation or sex.What’s the point to all of this? It is simply this: the problem and the bad of which you speak, Donny, is entirely the fault of the faith itself. Without it, the inner turmoil wouldn’t exist, and porn actors and actresses are more than likely not going to feel terrible about what they do. And indeed, most of the population won’t feel guilty about their urges.Also, your “shock” story should be entirely dropped. It is a terrible mockery of logical presentation. Anecdotal “evidence” isn’t evidence at all. None of us were there. You could either be leaving out important information, or lying all together, and we have no way to know if either is the case. It is entirely irrelevant.

  50. says

    It's interesting, Donny, that you avoided one of Anonymous' posts. I understand there are more of us than you, so you can't reply to all of them, but said Anonymous' post ("I should have clarified…") I feel had some good points.

    At any rate, the entire presentation about how porn is bad is based upon the Christian faith. Or, really, any religious faith in general.

    This is a problem, as it is, indeed, faith. By definition that means this "authority" has no evidence (else it wouldn't be faith). And I've not ever come across any reasonable evidence.

    But moving on. From there, people are taught, often from birth, that his/her own faith is correct and that to lead his/her life by said faith is the proper thing to do.

    So one's own faith (in this case, the Christian faith) here is teaching that sex, in the case of porn, is wrong. And that masturbation is wrong. So naturally, one learning this faith (especially from birth!) is, and I hope you'll forgive my terminology, essentially brainwashed into thinking that said things are bad.

    So when one naturally urges for these things, they are emotionally, "spiritually", socially etc. conflicted. And they feel guilty. They feel sadness. Shame. Some might even feel terror, in fear of going to Hell.

    But these urges ARE natural, and ARE normal. To entirely lack sexual release (either through masturbation or through sex) would be endlessly physically frustrating.

    And yet most faiths teach to abstain. You're right. It's the perfect "contraception". I can identify with those who wish to wait until marriage, generally, although I personally wouldn't agree. And so one tends to abstain.

    But one becomes sexually frustrated. What to do, then? Biology dictates sexual release, but some unproven faith says otherwise. So most turn to either masturbation or sex.

    What's the point to all of this? It is simply this: the problem and the bad of which you speak, Donny, is entirely the fault of the faith itself. Without it, the inner turmoil wouldn't exist, and porn actors and actresses are more than likely not going to feel terrible about what they do. And indeed, most of the population won't feel guilty about their urges.

    Also, your "shock" story should be entirely dropped. It is a terrible mockery of logical presentation. Anecdotal "evidence" isn't evidence at all. None of us were there. You could either be leaving out important information, or lying all together, and we have no way to know if either is the case. It is entirely irrelevant.

  51. says

    Nick,Because you mentioned it I will go back and address the comments of “Anonymous #1″ (number 2 has now become Herbert). Your comments follow the same lines as his opening paragraph, which talks about the stigma of porn. Oh, how I loved that line of thinking! I used to use it ALL the time when recruiting! When I was producing I’d convince girls that they shouldn’t let some puritanical ethics of angry, sexually frustrated, religious old men dictate what they did with their lives. After all, the people who established these “rules” were all of those things (angry, sexually frustrated, religious old men).The reality of the matter is that I knew I was full of it, even while making such statements. And I’m sure you hold that same realization deep inside. Were you at the event, Nick? If so, I don’t think you heard me use religion to justify my opinions on porn. Sure, I talked about how I turned to God, but I didn’t use God or any other religion when describing the havoc wreaked in the lives of those I watched. God had nothing to do with Karma being raped while she slept by college boys who figured she was a porn star, so why not take what they wanted. God had nothing to do with the girl who had her relationship with her father damaged by the photos he found plastered all over his car when leaving work. Nor did God relate to the story of the girl who’s photos were stapled to the trees of her college campus. Did you hear me mention God when talking about the girl who lost her job at Hewlett Packard over one day of working with me? Or the girl who was kicked out of the police academy because of the work she’d done for me? How about the letter I read from the girl who was begging me to get her content removed from the Internet?That part of my speech is not religiously motivated at all – it is intended to give YOU, the consumer, more information to consider. Many of us choose not to consume products that are produced with child labor. My goal is to show that porn production has diverse negative impacts on the lives of those depicted on screen. There are consequences for those actresses that last a lifetime, and the more demand we create, the more cycles of ruined lives we perpetuate. I got a little off track here… next comment will get back on track.

  52. says

    Nick,

    Because you mentioned it I will go back and address the comments of "Anonymous #1" (number 2 has now become Herbert). Your comments follow the same lines as his opening paragraph, which talks about the stigma of porn. Oh, how I loved that line of thinking! I used to use it ALL the time when recruiting! When I was producing I'd convince girls that they shouldn't let some puritanical ethics of angry, sexually frustrated, religious old men dictate what they did with their lives. After all, the people who established these "rules" were all of those things (angry, sexually frustrated, religious old men).

    The reality of the matter is that I knew I was full of it, even while making such statements. And I'm sure you hold that same realization deep inside. Were you at the event, Nick? If so, I don't think you heard me use religion to justify my opinions on porn. Sure, I talked about how I turned to God, but I didn't use God or any other religion when describing the havoc wreaked in the lives of those I watched. God had nothing to do with Karma being raped while she slept by college boys who figured she was a porn star, so why not take what they wanted. God had nothing to do with the girl who had her relationship with her father damaged by the photos he found plastered all over his car when leaving work. Nor did God relate to the story of the girl who's photos were stapled to the trees of her college campus.

    Did you hear me mention God when talking about the girl who lost her job at Hewlett Packard over one day of working with me? Or the girl who was kicked out of the police academy because of the work she'd done for me?

    How about the letter I read from the girl who was begging me to get her content removed from the Internet?

    That part of my speech is not religiously motivated at all – it is intended to give YOU, the consumer, more information to consider. Many of us choose not to consume products that are produced with child labor. My goal is to show that porn production has diverse negative impacts on the lives of those depicted on screen. There are consequences for those actresses that last a lifetime, and the more demand we create, the more cycles of ruined lives we perpetuate.

    I got a little off track here… next comment will get back on track.

  53. says

    Oh, and Nick, God also wasn’t part of the discussion that mentioned girls being screamed at between takes to get things right, the girl curled up in a ball in the corner sucking her thumb between takes – unable to emotionally process what she’d just done, or the surgeries some performers must endure to put their bodies back together after some of the scenes are filmed – scenes that are incredibly popular in today’s porn culture. You have the freedom to consume porn. Nobody’s trying to take that away from you. But you, as a thinking person, also need as much information from all sides as possible in order to make a better informed decision.

  54. says

    Oh, and Nick, God also wasn't part of the discussion that mentioned girls being screamed at between takes to get things right, the girl curled up in a ball in the corner sucking her thumb between takes – unable to emotionally process what she'd just done, or the surgeries some performers must endure to put their bodies back together after some of the scenes are filmed – scenes that are incredibly popular in today's porn culture.

    You have the freedom to consume porn. Nobody's trying to take that away from you. But you, as a thinking person, also need as much information from all sides as possible in order to make a better informed decision.

  55. says

    Take my cousin. He, and his ex-wife saved themselves for marriage. Things were great for the first year, until lo and behold they were not sexually compatible. He needed a release and looked at porn. She got mad and divorced. Was he right to look at porn? No, but had they not waited for marriage this would have been known before making a life time commitment. They got married without considering sex and it was wrong.You don’t think their problems just might be a little bit deeper than being “not sexually compatible”? I’m not a therapist, but I’d say the root issue just might be a lack of communication. Addressing the “sex” part of that relationship would be a band-aid. The cure would address a much deeper problem.Sex is a huge part of a relationship and if you can’t handle the thought of your wife/husband’s previous partners YOU have a jealousy problem.What’s done is done, yes. But the existence of past sexual experiences with others certainly won’t bond a new couple together. When I spoke at Yale, one student asked my opinions on user-produced porn sites. In other words, sites where people like the readers here would film themselves and then share it with the world. Not even going into the fact that many of those sites are seeded by porn companies making it LOOK user produced (yep, I used to be involved in that too), this fact remains: after you release it to the public that content isn’t going away, ever. It’ll be shared all over the internet, downloaded, etc. Someday it will resurface. When that happens, will it be a BENEFIT to the relationship you might have with a new person when he/she is told by all your friends that they’ve seen your partner going at it with an ex? Again, you have the freedom to do what you please. I just want to put out more food for thought. Thinking, intelligent individuals such as yourselves shouldn’t have a problem considering a larger body of info.Comparing porn to pedophilia is way off base, in the first place I was reffering to healthy, normal impulses, I don’t think anyone would call pedophilia normal.You entirely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn’t that many years ago when 12 year olds were being married off and having sex with their husbands. But as a society we’ve evolved and have decided 18 years old is a better age to consider a person an “adult”. The impulses certain people feel to still have sex with those who are not yet 18 have NOT gone away, but most decent humans have learned to control them.The point is this: just because we have impulses doesn’t mean we should act on them. We’re not mindless animals. Just because we have the freedom to do something doesn’t mean we SHOULD.

  56. says

    Take my cousin. He, and his ex-wife saved themselves for marriage. Things were great for the first year, until lo and behold they were not sexually compatible. He needed a release and looked at porn. She got mad and divorced. Was he right to look at porn? No, but had they not waited for marriage this would have been known before making a life time commitment. They got married without considering sex and it was wrong.

    You don't think their problems just might be a little bit deeper than being "not sexually compatible"? I'm not a therapist, but I'd say the root issue just might be a lack of communication. Addressing the "sex" part of that relationship would be a band-aid. The cure would address a much deeper problem.

    Sex is a huge part of a relationship and if you can't handle the thought of your wife/husband's previous partners YOU have a jealousy problem.

    What's done is done, yes. But the existence of past sexual experiences with others certainly won't bond a new couple together.

    When I spoke at Yale, one student asked my opinions on user-produced porn sites. In other words, sites where people like the readers here would film themselves and then share it with the world.

    Not even going into the fact that many of those sites are seeded by porn companies making it LOOK user produced (yep, I used to be involved in that too), this fact remains: after you release it to the public that content isn't going away, ever. It'll be shared all over the internet, downloaded, etc. Someday it will resurface. When that happens, will it be a BENEFIT to the relationship you might have with a new person when he/she is told by all your friends that they've seen your partner going at it with an ex?

    Again, you have the freedom to do what you please. I just want to put out more food for thought. Thinking, intelligent individuals such as yourselves shouldn't have a problem considering a larger body of info.

    Comparing porn to pedophilia is way off base, in the first place I was reffering to healthy, normal impulses, I don't think anyone would call pedophilia normal.

    You entirely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn't that many years ago when 12 year olds were being married off and having sex with their husbands. But as a society we've evolved and have decided 18 years old is a better age to consider a person an "adult". The impulses certain people feel to still have sex with those who are not yet 18 have NOT gone away, but most decent humans have learned to control them.

    The point is this: just because we have impulses doesn't mean we should act on them. We're not mindless animals. Just because we have the freedom to do something doesn't mean we SHOULD.

  57. says

    I love intellectual discussion, and am therefore enjoying conversing with all of you. But tonight I have an event to attend, and need to get ready for it. Lots of errands to run, ya know?I only mention this to explain why I might not respond in a timely manner to your comments. By the way, Jen – I follow you now on twitter. My nick (as I’m sure you figured out already) is @donnypauling.

  58. says

    I love intellectual discussion, and am therefore enjoying conversing with all of you. But tonight I have an event to attend, and need to get ready for it. Lots of errands to run, ya know?

    I only mention this to explain why I might not respond in a timely manner to your comments.

    By the way, Jen – I follow you now on twitter. My nick (as I'm sure you figured out already) is @donnypauling.

  59. says

    God does have something to do with it, because religion has something to do with it. It is because Christianity says that these things are wrong that people primarily feel shame and disgust towards these sexual actions. Your opinion of porn is derived from these fallacious religious beliefs. That is my point. If I’m wrong, I challenge you to give me some logical reason that porn is indeed bad.Sure, porn does have some risks. A lot of jobs have risks. That’s just the way it is. Construction can be a risky job, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that building things is intrinsically “bad.”

  60. says

    God does have something to do with it, because religion has something to do with it. It is because Christianity says that these things are wrong that people primarily feel shame and disgust towards these sexual actions.

    Your opinion of porn is derived from these fallacious religious beliefs. That is my point. If I'm wrong, I challenge you to give me some logical reason that porn is indeed bad.

    Sure, porn does have some risks. A lot of jobs have risks. That's just the way it is. Construction can be a risky job, but that doesn't necessarily mean that building things is intrinsically "bad."

  61. says

    For the love of your god, please quit using the word “girl” when referring to women, Donny. I counted dozens of uses. If your story is that you quit porn and are a good guy now, you should be aware that you still come off like a misogynist prick.

  62. says

    For the love of your god, please quit using the word "girl" when referring to women, Donny. I counted dozens of uses. If your story is that you quit porn and are a good guy now, you should be aware that you still come off like a misogynist prick.

  63. says

    For the love of your god, please quit using the word “girl” when referring to women, Donny. I counted dozens of uses. If your story is that you quit porn and are a good guy now, you should be aware that you still come off like a misogynist prick. I have plenty to say to all commenters, and will do so tomorrow when I get home… but this one I’m taking the time to address from my iPhone. It doesn’t make me a misogynist to use the term “girl”, just as it doesn’t make you – well – ANYTHING when you say something like “girl’s night out” or “I’m going out with the girls”. If you need to find something to be offended by there’s plenty to find. That word is something I’ll always use when talking about those entrapped by porn. They are all somebody’s little girl…somebody’s daughter…somebody’s sister… Girls…

  64. says

    For the love of your god, please quit using the word "girl" when referring to women, Donny. I counted dozens of uses. If your story is that you quit porn and are a good guy now, you should be aware that you still come off like a misogynist prick.

    I have plenty to say to all commenters, and will do so tomorrow when I get home… but this one I'm taking the time to address from my iPhone.

    It doesn't make me a misogynist to use the term "girl", just as it doesn't make you – well – ANYTHING when you say something like "girl's night out" or "I'm going out with the girls". If you need to find something to be offended by there's plenty to find. That word is something I'll always use when talking about those entrapped by porn. They are all somebody's little girl…somebody's daughter…somebody's sister…

    Girls…

  65. Julie says

    Oh yeah, totally not a misogynist. You only blithely dismiss a woman’s opinion on you being condescending toward other women. You’re a bastion of equality, alright.Naoki, don’t get your panties in a twist or worry your purdy little head, sweetheart. Daddy knows best, honey.

  66. Julie says

    Oh yeah, totally not a misogynist. You only blithely dismiss a woman's opinion on you being condescending toward other women. You're a bastion of equality, alright.

    Naoki, don't get your panties in a twist or worry your purdy little head, sweetheart. Daddy knows best, honey.

  67. Anonymous says

    This is the same anonymous that responded to you first, I’ll sign my posts as Andy from now on to make it less confusingYou don’t think their problems just might be a little bit deeper than being “not sexually compatible”? I’m not a therapist, but I’d say the root issue just might be a lack of communication. Addressing the “sex” part of that relationship would be a band-aid. The cure would address a much deeper problem.I completely agree that my cousins problem was communication. How can you communicate your sexuality when you don’t engage it? They waited, had no idea about their sexuality and when it didn’t mesh they struck disaster. If they hadn’t waited this would have been avoided.Not even going into the fact that many of those sites are seeded by porn companies making it LOOK user produced (yep, I used to be involved in that too), this fact remains: after you release it to the public that content isn’t going away, ever. It’ll be shared all over the internet, downloaded, etc. Someday it will resurface. When that happens, will it be a BENEFIT to the relationship you might have with a new person when he/she is told by all your friends that they’ve seen your partner going at it with an ex?I’m sorry but for someone who claims that we are putting words in his mouth, I ask: when did I say anything about this? My wife had sex before our relationship, so did I. Neither of us care, at all. Past relationships are in the past. if you can’t deal with that you have a jealousy problem.As for user produced porn, I have ZERO problem dating someone who taped themselves and put it online. I may be curious if they’re scared that an employer might see it, but again, I don’t have a jealousy problem, so it’s not a deal breaker at all.You entirely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn’t that many years ago when 12 year olds were being married off and having sex with their husbands. But as a society we’ve evolved and have decided 18 years old is a better age to consider a person an “adult”. The impulses certain people feel to still have sex with those who are not yet 18 have NOT gone away, but most decent humans have learned to control them.I didn’t miss your point at all, you missed mine. I don’t (and nor does most anybody else) consider pedophilia a natural, normal impulse. I consider the impulse to masturbate while thinking about adults having sex to be completely natural and normal. Do you HAVE to act on it? No, sometimes I get these impulses in inappropriate places, but I see nothing wrong with acting on them in private.Numerous rapists in prison claim their porn consumption is what gave them ideas they decided to live out. If those types of statements only came from a few of them it would be easier to dismiss. That’s not the case, though, Herbert. How is this not saying that porn leads to rape? Also, I would like to see your statistics on this one.Shellie never said that. Ever. She said, “If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you.” I’m sorry but can you understand when I hear this I hear her saying “you can’t be faithful because you’re an Atheist”? I put up with a lot of this. Her first church, upon realizing I wasn’t going to convert staged an intervention claiming divorce was ok because we weren’t married “under the eyes of God” anyways. Needless to say she goes to a different church now (and I go sometimes too)If you need to find something to be offended by there’s plenty to find. That word is something I’ll always use when talking about those entrapped by porn. They are all somebody’s little girl…somebody’s daughter…somebody’s sister… Do you refer to the men in porn as somebodys little boy?-Andy (Anonymous #1)

  68. Anonymous says

    This is the same anonymous that responded to you first, I'll sign my posts as Andy from now on to make it less confusing

    You don't think their problems just might be a little bit deeper than being "not sexually compatible"? I'm not a therapist, but I'd say the root issue just might be a lack of communication. Addressing the "sex" part of that relationship would be a band-aid. The cure would address a much deeper problem.

    I completely agree that my cousins problem was communication. How can you communicate your sexuality when you don't engage it? They waited, had no idea about their sexuality and when it didn't mesh they struck disaster. If they hadn't waited this would have been avoided.

    Not even going into the fact that many of those sites are seeded by porn companies making it LOOK user produced (yep, I used to be involved in that too), this fact remains: after you release it to the public that content isn't going away, ever. It'll be shared all over the internet, downloaded, etc. Someday it will resurface. When that happens, will it be a BENEFIT to the relationship you might have with a new person when he/she is told by all your friends that they've seen your partner going at it with an ex?

    I'm sorry but for someone who claims that we are putting words in his mouth, I ask: when did I say anything about this?

    My wife had sex before our relationship, so did I. Neither of us care, at all. Past relationships are in the past. if you can't deal with that you have a jealousy problem.

    As for user produced porn, I have ZERO problem dating someone who taped themselves and put it online. I may be curious if they're scared that an employer might see it, but again, I don't have a jealousy problem, so it's not a deal breaker at all.

    You entirely missed the point of what I was saying. It wasn't that many years ago when 12 year olds were being married off and having sex with their husbands. But as a society we've evolved and have decided 18 years old is a better age to consider a person an "adult". The impulses certain people feel to still have sex with those who are not yet 18 have NOT gone away, but most decent humans have learned to control them.

    I didn't miss your point at all, you missed mine. I don't (and nor does most anybody else) consider pedophilia a natural, normal impulse. I consider the impulse to masturbate while thinking about adults having sex to be completely natural and normal. Do you HAVE to act on it? No, sometimes I get these impulses in inappropriate places, but I see nothing wrong with acting on them in private.

    Numerous rapists in prison claim their porn consumption is what gave them ideas they decided to live out. If those types of statements only came from a few of them it would be easier to dismiss. That's not the case, though, Herbert.

    How is this not saying that porn leads to rape? Also, I would like to see your statistics on this one.

    Shellie never said that. Ever. She said, "If he can't be faithful to God, he can't be faithful to you."

    I'm sorry but can you understand when I hear this I hear her saying "you can't be faithful because you're an Atheist"? I put up with a lot of this. Her first church, upon realizing I wasn't going to convert staged an intervention claiming divorce was ok because we weren't married "under the eyes of God" anyways. Needless to say she goes to a different church now (and I go sometimes too)

    If you need to find something to be offended by there's plenty to find. That word is something I'll always use when talking about those entrapped by porn. They are all somebody's little girl…somebody's daughter…somebody's sister…

    Do you refer to the men in porn as somebodys little boy?

    -Andy (Anonymous #1)

  69. "Miranda" says

    I was also at Porn and Popcorn and actually helped sponsor and put on the event. And first of all I would like to say that you are grossly taking what the speakers said out of context. I am sorry that you think this event was all lies and attacked non-Christians and that it offended so many of you. But please also realize that if you put on an event that talked about your beliefs, if would probably attack Christians and offend us as well. You came to this event to make it into a joke, to try to provoke us and to cause debates. But just because you disagree does not give you the right to take things out of context and spread lies about what was said. The point of this event was not to offend anyone or as you say “spread lies”. The sole purpose of it was to give people a different view of porn, to see how it has affected people’s lives and how it can possibly damage yours as well. I know many people, some Christians, some agnostic, some even atheists, that have told me how porn has ruined their life or relationship in some way. Sure there may be some women out there who think porn is absolutely ok and they don’t mind their boyfriend or spouse looking at it. But if you talk to most women, they don’t want their significant other looking at it for one main reason: it sets standards that they can never meet. A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex. It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up to. And honestly, can you tell me that some things that are accepted and popular in the porn industry really ok? Do you think they are really pleasuring or healthy in a relationship? I am not talking about child porn or questionable things. Take for example fisting, orgies, or double penetration; do you think this is healthy for a woman, for a relationship, or for anyone to fantasize about? I can partly understand your frustrations that a group of Christians put on this big event and you feel like we bashed non-Christians. I too can sometimes be embarrassed and pissed off at how Christians act. There are too many out there that claim that they’re better than other people, and that our ways are right and your ways are wrong. Christians can tend to look down on people who do not believe the same as we do, and this is out right wrong and hypocritical. But understand this was not Stewart Cooperative or XXXChurch’s intent. We are not trying to force our religion on you nor are we trying to say our way is the only right way. We were simply trying to give you another view; to let you see that there are people behind those “perfect” women, that their lives are destroyed and it is not as glamorous as people make it out to be. We simply wanted to bring a different view of this industry than what the world shows people.

  70. "Miranda" says

    I was also at Porn and Popcorn and actually helped sponsor and put on the event. And first of all I would like to say that you are grossly taking what the speakers said out of context. I am sorry that you think this event was all lies and attacked non-Christians and that it offended so many of you. But please also realize that if you put on an event that talked about your beliefs, if would probably attack Christians and offend us as well. You came to this event to make it into a joke, to try to provoke us and to cause debates. But just because you disagree does not give you the right to take things out of context and spread lies about what was said. The point of this event was not to offend anyone or as you say “spread lies”. The sole purpose of it was to give people a different view of porn, to see how it has affected people’s lives and how it can possibly damage yours as well. I know many people, some Christians, some agnostic, some even atheists, that have told me how porn has ruined their life or relationship in some way. Sure there may be some women out there who think porn is absolutely ok and they don’t mind their boyfriend or spouse looking at it. But if you talk to most women, they don’t want their significant other looking at it for one main reason: it sets standards that they can never meet. A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex. It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up to. And honestly, can you tell me that some things that are accepted and popular in the porn industry really ok? Do you think they are really pleasuring or healthy in a relationship? I am not talking about child porn or questionable things. Take for example fisting, orgies, or double penetration; do you think this is healthy for a woman, for a relationship, or for anyone to fantasize about? I can partly understand your frustrations that a group of Christians put on this big event and you feel like we bashed non-Christians. I too can sometimes be embarrassed and pissed off at how Christians act. There are too many out there that claim that they’re better than other people, and that our ways are right and your ways are wrong. Christians can tend to look down on people who do not believe the same as we do, and this is out right wrong and hypocritical. But understand this was not Stewart Cooperative or XXXChurch’s intent. We are not trying to force our religion on you nor are we trying to say our way is the only right way. We were simply trying to give you another view; to let you see that there are people behind those “perfect” women, that their lives are destroyed and it is not as glamorous as people make it out to be. We simply wanted to bring a different view of this industry than what the world shows people.

  71. "Miranda" says

    (continued)As I stated, you came to this event with the purpose to mock us and to try and put us down. I am not trying to persuade you to believe and see things my way because I accept that it probably won’t happen, and I accept that not everyone believes like I do. We are not going to agree with you nor will you probably agree with us. The fact that you came to Porn and Popcorn with the intent on causing dissention shows a little bit of immaturity on your part, as you say that we won’t accept you for your beliefs; but my questions is why can’t you accept us for our beliefs? You chose to believe in no god or in a god that is not involved, and that is your choice. I chose to believe in God and in Jesus, so why can’t you accept my beliefs and the beliefs of Stewart Cooperative and of XXXChruch? Just something to think about. Again, I am sorry that you were offended by what was said, but I challenge you to take a closer look at things, to see things from a different view, and to maybe see that porn can be damaging and dangerous.

  72. "Miranda" says

    (continued)

    As I stated, you came to this event with the purpose to mock us and to try and put us down. I am not trying to persuade you to believe and see things my way because I accept that it probably won’t happen, and I accept that not everyone believes like I do. We are not going to agree with you nor will you probably agree with us. The fact that you came to Porn and Popcorn with the intent on causing dissention shows a little bit of immaturity on your part, as you say that we won’t accept you for your beliefs; but my questions is why can’t you accept us for our beliefs? You chose to believe in no god or in a god that is not involved, and that is your choice. I chose to believe in God and in Jesus, so why can’t you accept my beliefs and the beliefs of Stewart Cooperative and of XXXChruch? Just something to think about. Again, I am sorry that you were offended by what was said, but I challenge you to take a closer look at things, to see things from a different view, and to maybe see that porn can be damaging and dangerous.

  73. says

    Wow, this thread has absolutely exploded. I’m oddly amused at how people are putting words into my mouth and interpreting my intentions and feelings. I’ll make a post this weekend when I actually have time to deal with this.

  74. says

    Wow, this thread has absolutely exploded. I'm oddly amused at how people are putting words into my mouth and interpreting my intentions and feelings. I'll make a post this weekend when I actually have time to deal with this.

  75. jemand says

    WOMEN!!! WOMEN you FUCKING IDIOT DOUCHBAG!You are such a misogynistic prick… of COURSE you have to call them girls, because then you can dismiss and belittle their choices.Quit it. Now.

  76. jemand says

    WOMEN!!! WOMEN you FUCKING IDIOT DOUCHBAG!

    You are such a misogynistic prick… of COURSE you have to call them girls, because then you can dismiss and belittle their choices.

    Quit it. Now.

  77. says

    Good job! I love the responses you just provoke.One of the ways to know more about the enemy is to know how they will respond to certain moves you make, just like a game of chess. So, I strongly encourage you to do more of this, and if you’d like, I can make suggestions that can benefit our side. A great warrior is not only good at knowing their enemy but also themselves, the battle ground, the timing, and the strategies. (Lessons learned from Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War”)

  78. says

    Good job! I love the responses you just provoke.

    One of the ways to know more about the enemy is to know how they will respond to certain moves you make, just like a game of chess. So, I strongly encourage you to do more of this, and if you'd like, I can make suggestions that can benefit our side. A great warrior is not only good at knowing their enemy but also themselves, the battle ground, the timing, and the strategies. (Lessons learned from Sun Tzu's "The Art of War")

  79. says

    A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex.You would recommend masturbation porn then? I understand it’s quite a popular subculture.It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up to.You haven’t watched many pornos, have you?Oh, and the thing waaaaay up high about Ron Jeremy wishing he was in mainstream films? There’s about a million waiters in LA who wish the same thing. Big deal.

  80. says

    A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex.

    You would recommend masturbation porn then? I understand it's quite a popular subculture.

    It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up to.

    You haven't watched many pornos, have you?

    Oh, and the thing waaaaay up high about Ron Jeremy wishing he was in mainstream films? There's about a million waiters in LA who wish the same thing. Big deal.

  81. jemand says

    It’s also disgusting to me that Donny Pauling cites a raped porn actress and women who have lost their jobs for past work and seems to think this is an argument against *porn.* As in, these actions he believes are *justified* and *understandable* if the woman in question dared to go get pictures of herself taken while naked.Instead of pushing for legislation protecting anyone from losing their jobs over holding any kind of previous legal employment, or promoting tips such as http://www.godlessgirl.com/200… Donny prefers to blame the victim.Plus making them out to be agent-less “little girls” without using any such dismissive language while discussing himself or any other male employed in the industry. Insisting on referring to women as girls as a general rule denies the capabilities and agency of an adult, and objectifies them as a little lost child. The sexual double standard he then applies by considering every man in the industry a perverted evil predator… paired with a powerless depiction of childhood… and then getting off on annoying and frustrating women in this thread, points to some seriously warped thinking going on. His insistence actually seems to point to some seriously kinky mental fantasies, which is fine until he gets to the point of doing this NON-consensually, i.e., refusing to listen to anyone in this thread voicing our concern and discomfort with hearing this language and kink expressed when someone’s asked him to stop. Porn’s great, forcing someone to become part of your power fantasies when we’re having an academic discussion is NOT. Defining ourselves is one of the most powerful things humans can do– pointedly denying that to another group of people is most definitely part of a power trip.

  82. jemand says

    It's also disgusting to me that Donny Pauling cites a raped porn actress and women who have lost their jobs for past work and seems to think this is an argument against *porn.* As in, these actions he believes are *justified* and *understandable* if the woman in question dared to go get pictures of herself taken while naked.

    Instead of pushing for legislation protecting anyone from losing their jobs over holding any kind of previous legal employment, or promoting tips such as http://www.godlessgirl.com/2009/09/sexual-assult-prevention-tips-that-really-work/ Donny prefers to blame the victim.

    Plus making them out to be agent-less "little girls" without using any such dismissive language while discussing himself or any other male employed in the industry. Insisting on referring to women as girls as a general rule denies the capabilities and agency of an adult, and objectifies them as a little lost child. The sexual double standard he then applies by considering every man in the industry a perverted evil predator… paired with a powerless depiction of childhood… and then getting off on annoying and frustrating women in this thread, points to some seriously warped thinking going on.

    His insistence actually seems to point to some seriously kinky mental fantasies, which is fine until he gets to the point of doing this NON-consensually, i.e., refusing to listen to anyone in this thread voicing our concern and discomfort with hearing this language and kink expressed when someone's asked him to stop. Porn's great, forcing someone to become part of your power fantasies when we're having an academic discussion is NOT. Defining ourselves is one of the most powerful things humans can do– pointedly denying that to another group of people is most definitely part of a power trip.

  83. Anonymous says

    In response to Miranda:And first of all I would like to say that you are grossly taking what the speakers said out of context. So far you and Donnie have come in here saying that, but you haven’t said what Jen took out of context. Donnie said Jen screwed up his conversion story, but confirmed that the speaker after him said that “If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you”. Do you understand how that is offensive and slanderous to Atheists? He also confirmed that she said birth control is a joke. Which is a lie, and a very dangerous one at that.But if you talk to most women, they don’t want their significant other looking at it for one main reason: it sets standards that they can never meet. A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex. It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up toMy favorite movie growing up was Top Gun. It was unreasonable of me to ever expect to be a Navy pilot, especially because I don’t have 20/20 vision. If people can’t seperate what they see on a screen from reality that is a deeper problem then porn.Take for example fisting, orgies, or double penetration; do you think this is healthy for a woman, for a relationship, or for anyone to fantasize about? Do you think that if Porn goes away these fetishes will too? Yes I do think it’s healthy, everyone has different kinks, and as long as everyone involved is consenting I don’t see a problem.to let you see that there are people behind those “perfect” women, that their lives are destroyed and it is not as glamorous as people make it out to be.But porn doesn’t have to be this way, and not all of it is. It sounds like your real problem is the skeezy people involved. What is wrong with consenting adults recording themselves having sex?We are not going to agree with you nor will you probably agree with us. The fact that you came to Porn and Popcorn with the intent on causing dissention shows a little bit of immaturity on your part, as you say that we won’t accept you for your beliefs; but my questions is why can’t you accept us for our beliefs?This is not fair. You came in saying Jen misrepresented you but you never said where, or how. You only gave more arguments against porn. It’s not my place to tell people what to believe, and if Jesus is what it takes to keep Donnie from being a predatorial jerk then I’m glad he’s found him and hope he continues to find him. But it doesn’t make me believe at all, and using religion to slander Atheists, and spread lies about sex is wrong.-Andy

  84. Anonymous says

    In response to Miranda:

    And first of all I would like to say that you are grossly taking what the speakers said out of context.

    So far you and Donnie have come in here saying that, but you haven't said what Jen took out of context. Donnie said Jen screwed up his conversion story, but confirmed that the speaker after him said that "If he can't be faithful to God, he can't be faithful to you". Do you understand how that is offensive and slanderous to Atheists? He also confirmed that she said birth control is a joke. Which is a lie, and a very dangerous one at that.

    But if you talk to most women, they don’t want their significant other looking at it for one main reason: it sets standards that they can never meet. A man looks at porn and sees that a woman is always pleasured by intercourse, but we know that a majority of women never orgasm through vaginal sex. It also puts in their mind a beautiful, seemingly perfect woman that their wife or girlfriend will never live up to

    My favorite movie growing up was Top Gun. It was unreasonable of me to ever expect to be a Navy pilot, especially because I don't have 20/20 vision. If people can't seperate what they see on a screen from reality that is a deeper problem then porn.

    Take for example fisting, orgies, or double penetration; do you think this is healthy for a woman, for a relationship, or for anyone to fantasize about?

    Do you think that if Porn goes away these fetishes will too? Yes I do think it's healthy, everyone has different kinks, and as long as everyone involved is consenting I don't see a problem.

    to let you see that there are people behind those “perfect” women, that their lives are destroyed and it is not as glamorous as people make it out to be.

    But porn doesn't have to be this way, and not all of it is. It sounds like your real problem is the skeezy people involved. What is wrong with consenting adults recording themselves having sex?

    We are not going to agree with you nor will you probably agree with us. The fact that you came to Porn and Popcorn with the intent on causing dissention shows a little bit of immaturity on your part, as you say that we won’t accept you for your beliefs; but my questions is why can’t you accept us for our beliefs?

    This is not fair. You came in saying Jen misrepresented you but you never said where, or how. You only gave more arguments against porn. It's not my place to tell people what to believe, and if Jesus is what it takes to keep Donnie from being a predatorial jerk then I'm glad he's found him and hope he continues to find him. But it doesn't make me believe at all, and using religion to slander Atheists, and spread lies about sex is wrong.

    -Andy

  85. says

    You know, Jemand, I fully intended to continue the discussion this morning. But when a discussion must descend to the place where I’m being called a mysogonistic “FUCKING IDIOT DOUCHBAG”, and none of your “friends” seem to think there’s anything wrong with that type of conversation… well, that just kinda doesn’t create a whole lot of incentive to stay and chat.Unsubscribing from comments and wishing you all the best.

  86. says

    You know, Jemand, I fully intended to continue the discussion this morning. But when a discussion must descend to the place where I'm being called a mysogonistic "FUCKING IDIOT DOUCHBAG", and none of your "friends" seem to think there's anything wrong with that type of conversation… well, that just kinda doesn't create a whole lot of incentive to stay and chat.

    Unsubscribing from comments and wishing you all the best.

  87. Anonymous says

    Donny, perhaps she stepped over the line by dropping profanities, but her point still stands. When you say “these poor girls” or “she was somebody’s little girl” you are belittling them, and it is misogyny -Andy

  88. Anonymous says

    Donny, perhaps she stepped over the line by dropping profanities, but her point still stands. When you say "these poor girls" or "she was somebody's little girl" you are belittling them, and it is misogyny

    -Andy

  89. jemand says

    oh wow, thanks. He actually listened. If 1) he keeps his word and doesn’t come back, or 2) he comes back and apologizes for his repeated dismissive use of “girls,” my opinion of him will go up a bit from negative infinity. Might actually become a finite negative number.If he actually starts calling the *women* he worked with *women* in future venues… hey, my opinion might creep up to a small positive number.

  90. jemand says

    oh wow, thanks. He actually listened. If 1) he keeps his word and doesn't come back, or 2) he comes back and apologizes for his repeated dismissive use of "girls," my opinion of him will go up a bit from negative infinity. Might actually become a finite negative number.

    If he actually starts calling the *women* he worked with *women* in future venues… hey, my opinion might creep up to a small positive number.

  91. Anonymous says

    The most important point of all hasn’t been mentioned:It is NOT true that porn is itself bad. It IS true that some porn producers (cough)DonnyHatesWomen(cough) are some of the scummiest assholes on earth.The porn itself isn’t bad – but when jackasses like Donny are involved it appears that it can get pretty sordid and outright cruel.All of your anecdotes (donny) paint ~you~ as a completely out of control asswipe! That ~you~ had no respect for the people you worked with doesn’t make the work you did bad – it just makes you a douche!!Seriously Donny – it’s not the porn that’s the problem… it’s that people like you are producing some of it that’s a problem.Miranda wrote: “You chose to believe in no god or in a god that is not involved, and that is your choice. I chose to believe in God and in Jesus, so why can’t you accept my beliefs and the beliefs of Stewart Cooperative and of XXXChruch?”What is it with the christian persecution complex??Nobody is faulting you (Miranda) for your belief in god. I doubt most of us give a shit… The reason we don’t just “accept” your beliefs on porn is because you choose to relay misinformation and lies to students who deserve the truth. It has nothing to do with your belief in god and everything to do with your beliefs on porn.Joe Agnost.

  92. Anonymous says

    The most important point of all hasn't been mentioned:

    It is NOT true that porn is itself bad. It IS true that some porn producers (cough)DonnyHatesWomen(cough) are some of the scummiest assholes on earth.

    The porn itself isn't bad – but when jackasses like Donny are involved it appears that it can get pretty sordid and outright cruel.

    All of your anecdotes (donny) paint ~you~ as a completely out of control asswipe! That ~you~ had no respect for the people you worked with doesn't make the work you did bad – it just makes you a douche!!

    Seriously Donny – it's not the porn that's the problem… it's that people like you are producing some of it that's a problem.

    Miranda wrote: "You chose to believe in no god or in a god that is not involved, and that is your choice. I chose to believe in God and in Jesus, so why can’t you accept my beliefs and the beliefs of Stewart Cooperative and of XXXChruch?"

    What is it with the christian persecution complex??

    Nobody is faulting you (Miranda) for your belief in god. I doubt most of us give a shit… The reason we don't just "accept" your beliefs on porn is because you choose to relay misinformation and lies to students who deserve the truth. It has nothing to do with your belief in god and everything to do with your beliefs on porn.

    Joe Agnost.

  93. Anonymous says

    lol at the Failtroll :D, Just for the record, I do actually have friends who work in the Porn Industry as Producers and Directors. I thought I would respond to Paul, as I was ALSO there that night with Jen, and can pretty much confirm what she was saying is what was said {we had brought notebooks etc, because XXXchurch’s usual policy was to have a question and answer session, however they chose to let a band play for this somewhat large venue). As for Mr. Pauling, that’s pretty weak atheism to go from not believing in God, to trolling the XXXchurh’s messages board for some time, and than over about a month long period, to suddenly preaching in the name of the XXXchurch. It’s a bit appalling that you speak of yourself as a “Good Person” in the porn industry, when what you talked about is the worst kind of porn producer. You took in amateur girls, and basically suckered them into the industry. That’s not the top of the porn totem poll, And I also had to laugh when you were discussing your advertising numbers. I actually happen to work with Web SEO and Web trafficking for several major sites, and the numbers you quoted, even for porn, were off base. You also failed to talk about the fact, that the money for porn IS NOT in websites, but rather in video sales STILL, advertising in the porn industry is one giant circle jerk, and because no other advertiser will approach it, there is pretty much this pool of cash that gets passed around. The real money comes from selling actual videos. Now had you actually been something more than a smut peddler [the bottom level of the totem poll, filming amateur, young girls, etc. who haven’t made much of a name for themselves. You would probably know that many people who are in porn actually do enjoy their job.] Like any other industry the front line workers [that’s the “New girls”] don’t like it, because the money / etc. doesn’t outweigh whatever loss of dignity they think has occurred. But High Profile porn actresses, etc do enjoy the benefits of having a name in the Porn Industry. Your performance on stage was revolting, because you are what defines the horrors of the porn industry. It is the low level porn producers, and the drug dealers, which gives the industry as a whole a bad name

  94. Anonymous says

    lol at the Failtroll :D, Just for the record, I do actually have friends who work in the Porn Industry as Producers and Directors. I thought I would respond to Paul, as I was ALSO there that night with Jen, and can pretty much confirm what she was saying is what was said {we had brought notebooks etc, because XXXchurch's usual policy was to have a question and answer session, however they chose to let a band play for this somewhat large venue).

    As for Mr. Pauling, that's pretty weak atheism to go from not believing in God, to trolling the XXXchurh's messages board for some time, and than over about a month long period, to suddenly preaching in the name of the XXXchurch. It's a bit appalling that you speak of yourself as a "Good Person" in the porn industry, when what you talked about is the worst kind of porn producer. You took in amateur girls, and basically suckered them into the industry. That's not the top of the porn totem poll, And I also had to laugh when you were discussing your advertising numbers. I actually happen to work with Web SEO and Web trafficking for several major sites, and the numbers you quoted, even for porn, were off base. You also failed to talk about the fact, that the money for porn IS NOT in websites, but rather in video sales STILL, advertising in the porn industry is one giant circle jerk, and because no other advertiser will approach it, there is pretty much this pool of cash that gets passed around. The real money comes from selling actual videos. Now had you actually been something more than a smut peddler [the bottom level of the totem poll, filming amateur, young girls, etc. who haven't made much of a name for themselves. You would probably know that many people who are in porn actually do enjoy their job.] Like any other industry the front line workers [that's the "New girls"] don't like it, because the money / etc. doesn't outweigh whatever loss of dignity they think has occurred. But High Profile porn actresses, etc do enjoy the benefits of having a name in the Porn Industry.

    Your performance on stage was revolting, because you are what defines the horrors of the porn industry. It is the low level porn producers, and the drug dealers, which gives the industry as a whole a bad name

  95. "Miranda" says

    Ok first of all, let me say something here. It’s beyond obvious that we disagree, but we are all adults here so let’s start acting like it. There is absolutely no reason for such profanity and degrading things. Seriously, let’s all be mature and debate and talk about our issues, not throw around hateful things. With that out of the way…In response to Andy…”If he can’t be faithful to God, he can’t be faithful to you”. Do you understand how that is offensive and slanderous to Atheists?”Yes, though I am not an atheist, I can understand how this would offend you. Though I can’t speak for Shellie, I’m going to say what I’m pretty sure she meant. It’s the belief of Christians that God has called us to marry another Christian. I believe her point was that if, as a Christian, your spouse cannot be faithful and have a strong relationship with God, they would struggle doing the same for you. I don’t believe she meant that just because you don’t believe in God means you can’t be faithful to your partner. Again, that is how I think she meant it, but I cannot speak for her. And I am sorry that it offended you and I can completely see how that would be offensive and slanderous to you. I apologize. “So far you and Donnie have come in here saying that, but you haven’t said what Jen took out of context”I don’t think I’m going to address this point. I feel like us debating over a lot of this stuff is a viscous endless cycle. If I point out we believe she took out of context, you will say she didn’t. I think it comes down to our different beliefs, and we will never agree with each other on this. If you want, I can show you what I believe she took out of context, and try to explain my views on it. But I don’t think it will help.“My favorite movie growing up was Top Gun. It was unreasonable of me to ever expect to be a Navy pilot, especially because I don’t have 20/20 vision. If people can’t seperate what they see on a screen from reality that is a deeper problem then porn.”So comparing Top Gun with porn is a horrible idea. Being a Navy Pilot requires much hard work and schooling, as where sex is an every day thing. It’s much easier to have sex than become a pilot. But, I can agree with you that if adults can’t separate movies from reality, then there is a deeper problem. But the truth is, a lot of teenagers or pre-teens who are curious about sex take what they see as fact, because they don’t know better. They don’t know what sex is really like, so porn is setting a horrible standard.

  96. "Miranda" says

    Ok first of all, let me say something here. It's beyond obvious that we disagree, but we are all adults here so let's start acting like it. There is absolutely no reason for such profanity and degrading things. Seriously, let's all be mature and debate and talk about our issues, not throw around hateful things.

    With that out of the way…

    In response to Andy…"If he can't be faithful to God, he can't be faithful to you". Do you understand how that is offensive and slanderous to Atheists?”Yes, though I am not an atheist, I can understand how this would offend you. Though I can’t speak for Shellie, I’m going to say what I’m pretty sure she meant. It’s the belief of Christians that God has called us to marry another Christian. I believe her point was that if, as a Christian, your spouse cannot be faithful and have a strong relationship with God, they would struggle doing the same for you. I don’t believe she meant that just because you don’t believe in God means you can’t be faithful to your partner. Again, that is how I think she meant it, but I cannot speak for her. And I am sorry that it offended you and I can completely see how that would be offensive and slanderous to you. I apologize. “So far you and Donnie have come in here saying that, but you haven't said what Jen took out of context”I don’t think I’m going to address this point. I feel like us debating over a lot of this stuff is a viscous endless cycle. If I point out we believe she took out of context, you will say she didn’t. I think it comes down to our different beliefs, and we will never agree with each other on this. If you want, I can show you what I believe she took out of context, and try to explain my views on it. But I don’t think it will help.“My favorite movie growing up was Top Gun. It was unreasonable of me to ever expect to be a Navy pilot, especially because I don't have 20/20 vision. If people can't seperate what they see on a screen from reality that is a deeper problem then porn.”So comparing Top Gun with porn is a horrible idea. Being a Navy Pilot requires much hard work and schooling, as where sex is an every day thing. It’s much easier to have sex than become a pilot. But, I can agree with you that if adults can’t separate movies from reality, then there is a deeper problem. But the truth is, a lot of teenagers or pre-teens who are curious about sex take what they see as fact, because they don’t know better. They don’t know what sex is really like, so porn is setting a horrible standard.

  97. "Miranda" says

    (continued)“Do you think that if Porn goes away these fetishes will too?”No, I don’t. but I know that porn is glamorizing these things, and as time goes on people are doing these things without appropriate knowledge and physically hurting themselves. Porn is feeding the fire. “What is wrong with consenting adults recording themselves having sex?”I believe absolutely nothing is wrong with that. But why would you want to share that? Why let the rest of the world see it? It can ruin relationships, hurt a family, and possibly endanger jobs. So to me, there’s nothing wrong recording it. But why share it? Why have some stranger, possibly a perverted one, watch you banging someone? It’s not necessarily wrong, I just don’t think it’s smart.“He also confirmed that she said birth control is a joke. Which is a lie, and a very dangerous one at that.”Yes, she did say it. And to an extent she is right. We are not saying go have sex and use no birth control; we’re saying that though it probably won’t fail, it still does. I have 2 friends, both who were on birth control and both also used condoms, and at age 16 one got pregnant, and the other one got pregnant at age 18. We are saying that protection is better than nothing, but abstinence is better than all of the above. So, if birth control fails, it is a joke. We tell kids and teenagers and adults that birth control is the best way to go, but it’s not. We are not animals; we have to choice to control our instincts and desires, so abstinence is possible…hard, but possible. To reply to Joe Agnostic…“It has nothing to do with your belief in god and everything to do with your beliefs on porn.”It has everything to do with my belief in God. I believe in God, therefore I follow the Bible and what I believe He’s called me to do and the rules I feel convicted to follow. Therefore, I believe that sex before marriage is wrong. I also believe that lusting and desiring someone that is not your spouse is wrong…and that is the whole purpose of porn. Sure there are some people who do not share the same beliefs as me and believe porn is wrong. But for me, this has everything to do with my beliefs and my God. “Seriously Donny – it’s not the porn that’s the problem… it’s that people like you are producing some of it that’s a problem.”But why are people like him producing it? Because people are watching it, because people purchase it…and that is the problem. So again, please, we’re all adults, so let’s keep this civilized. Neither Donny nor I have put you down in the way a few of you have put us down, so let’s change things up a little and debate and discuss like adults. Otherwise, I too will not continue this. I am a human like you and deserve respect like any of you.

  98. "Miranda" says

    (continued)

    “Do you think that if Porn goes away these fetishes will too?”

    No, I don’t. but I know that porn is glamorizing these things, and as time goes on people are doing these things without appropriate knowledge and physically hurting themselves. Porn is feeding the fire.

    “What is wrong with consenting adults recording themselves having sex?”I believe absolutely nothing is wrong with that. But why would you want to share that? Why let the rest of the world see it? It can ruin relationships, hurt a family, and possibly endanger jobs. So to me, there’s nothing wrong recording it. But why share it? Why have some stranger, possibly a perverted one, watch you banging someone? It’s not necessarily wrong, I just don’t think it’s smart.

    “He also confirmed that she said birth control is a joke. Which is a lie, and a very dangerous one at that.”

    Yes, she did say it. And to an extent she is right. We are not saying go have sex and use no birth control; we’re saying that though it probably won’t fail, it still does. I have 2 friends, both who were on birth control and both also used condoms, and at age 16 one got pregnant, and the other one got pregnant at age 18. We are saying that protection is better than nothing, but abstinence is better than all of the above. So, if birth control fails, it is a joke. We tell kids and teenagers and adults that birth control is the best way to go, but it’s not. We are not animals; we have to choice to control our instincts and desires, so abstinence is possible…hard, but possible.

    To reply to Joe Agnostic…

    “It has nothing to do with your belief in god and everything to do with your beliefs on porn.”

    It has everything to do with my belief in God. I believe in God, therefore I follow the Bible and what I believe He’s called me to do and the rules I feel convicted to follow. Therefore, I believe that sex before marriage is wrong. I also believe that lusting and desiring someone that is not your spouse is wrong…and that is the whole purpose of porn. Sure there are some people who do not share the same beliefs as me and believe porn is wrong. But for me, this has everything to do with my beliefs and my God.

    “Seriously Donny – it's not the porn that's the problem… it's that people like you are producing some of it that's a problem.”

    But why are people like him producing it? Because people are watching it, because people purchase it…and that is the problem.

    So again, please, we’re all adults, so let’s keep this civilized. Neither Donny nor I have put you down in the way a few of you have put us down, so let’s change things up a little and debate and discuss like adults. Otherwise, I too will not continue this. I am a human like you and deserve respect like any of you.

  99. jemand says

    I think we ought to take another look at Herbert’s math lesson.Chance of condom usage (used correctly every time) resulting in pregnancy over a year of use: 2% (let’s use 5% just to be safe)Chance of hormonal BC (used correctly) resulting in pregnancy over a year of use:.3%Chance of never getting pregnant over TEN YEARS of using these methods properly: 99.9%Obviously contraception is NOT a joke.Sex EDUCATION is a joke, and ACCESS is a joke, which means kids cannot use it properly, and explains teen pregnancy. Someone getting in front of young adults and pretending to speak from a position of facts, to “educate” them by dismissing contraception… THAT’s what causes the joke, not birth control.(note on profanity and degrading things: sure, we have a deal. No one degrades me by dismissing me as “girl,” I won’t cuss. Seems to have worked fine too.)

  100. jemand says

    I think we ought to take another look at Herbert's math lesson.

    Chance of condom usage (used correctly every time) resulting in pregnancy over a year of use: 2% (let's use 5% just to be safe)

    Chance of hormonal BC (used correctly) resulting in pregnancy over a year of use:.3%

    Chance of never getting pregnant over TEN YEARS of using these methods properly: 99.9%

    Obviously contraception is NOT a joke.

    Sex EDUCATION is a joke, and ACCESS is a joke, which means kids cannot use it properly, and explains teen pregnancy. Someone getting in front of young adults and pretending to speak from a position of facts, to "educate" them by dismissing contraception… THAT's what causes the joke, not birth control.

    (note on profanity and degrading things: sure, we have a deal. No one degrades me by dismissing me as "girl," I won't cuss. Seems to have worked fine too.)

  101. Anonymous says

    No, I don’t. but I know that porn is glamorizing these things, and as time goes on people are doing these things without appropriate knowledge and physically hurting themselves. Porn is feeding the fire. So? People get curious about their sexuality see something that strikes their curiosity and decide to engage in it. I fail to see a problem. It can ruin relationships, hurt a family, and possibly endanger jobs. So to me, there’s nothing wrong recording it. But why share it? Why have some stranger, possibly a perverted one, watch you banging someone? It’s not necessarily wrong, I just don’t think it’s smartI agree mostly with you here. I’m certainly not in a rush to put myself out there like that. However I think we should remove the stigma from people who do participate.Yes, she did say it. And to an extent she is right. We are not saying go have sex and use no birth control; we’re saying that though it probably won’t fail, it still does. I have 2 friends, both who were on birth control and both also used condoms, and at age 16 one got pregnant, and the other one got pregnant at age 18. We are saying that protection is better than nothing, but abstinence is better than all of the above. So, if birth control fails, it is a joke. We tell kids and teenagers and adults that birth control is the best way to go, but it’s not. We are not animals; we have to choice to control our instincts and desires, so abstinence is possible…hard, but possible. When you say “Birth Control is a joke”, you’re not saying “hey its probably not going to fail, but it might”. You are using scare tactics to tell kids “keep it in your pants”. I don’t know your friend so I don’t know if they used control incorrectly or they were one of the VERY few who just got unlucky. Condoms are 98% effective when used correctly, the pill is 99% and many other options can all be seen by Planned parenthood which has clinical tests to prove these numbers. That said theres a difference between use in theory and use in practice. In theory Abstinence is 100% effective, however people will use condoms wrong, forget the pill one morning and other. Planned parenthood has the numbers for incorrect use and they are much lower, Condoms are about 85, the pill is about 92. It’s hard to gauge the effectiveness of abstinence in practice but this study places it between 26% and 86% (http://www.sexetc.org/story/de… even in the best case abstinence is not as effective as condoms, even when used incorrectly. If you want to wait, I am more then happy for you, but that’s no excuse to be ignorant on the matter. Almost every campus in this country has a sex resource group that can teach you about the options and how effective they are and how to do them properly (Seriously so few people know how to actually put on a condom, its not as straightforward as you think). Leave the birth control to them, and encourage your viewers to at least listen to the options.-Andy

  102. Anonymous says

    No, I don’t. but I know that porn is glamorizing these things, and as time goes on people are doing these things without appropriate knowledge and physically hurting themselves. Porn is feeding the fire.

    So? People get curious about their sexuality see something that strikes their curiosity and decide to engage in it. I fail to see a problem.

    It can ruin relationships, hurt a family, and possibly endanger jobs. So to me, there’s nothing wrong recording it. But why share it? Why have some stranger, possibly a perverted one, watch you banging someone? It’s not necessarily wrong, I just don’t think it’s smart

    I agree mostly with you here. I'm certainly not in a rush to put myself out there like that. However I think we should remove the stigma from people who do participate.

    Yes, she did say it. And to an extent she is right. We are not saying go have sex and use no birth control; we’re saying that though it probably won’t fail, it still does. I have 2 friends, both who were on birth control and both also used condoms, and at age 16 one got pregnant, and the other one got pregnant at age 18. We are saying that protection is better than nothing, but abstinence is better than all of the above. So, if birth control fails, it is a joke. We tell kids and teenagers and adults that birth control is the best way to go, but it’s not. We are not animals; we have to choice to control our instincts and desires, so abstinence is possible…hard, but possible.

    When you say "Birth Control is a joke", you're not saying "hey its probably not going to fail, but it might". You are using scare tactics to tell kids "keep it in your pants". I don't know your friend so I don't know if they used control incorrectly or they were one of the VERY few who just got unlucky. Condoms are 98% effective when used correctly, the pill is 99% and many other options can all be seen by Planned parenthood which has clinical tests to prove these numbers. That said theres a difference between use in theory and use in practice. In theory Abstinence is 100% effective, however people will use condoms wrong, forget the pill one morning and other. Planned parenthood has the numbers for incorrect use and they are much lower, Condoms are about 85, the pill is about 92. It's hard to gauge the effectiveness of abstinence in practice but this study places it between 26% and 86% (http://www.sexetc.org/story/deciding_sex/2043).So even in the best case abstinence is not as effective as condoms, even when used incorrectly.

    If you want to wait, I am more then happy for you, but that's no excuse to be ignorant on the matter. Almost every campus in this country has a sex resource group that can teach you about the options and how effective they are and how to do them properly (Seriously so few people know how to actually put on a condom, its not as straightforward as you think). Leave the birth control to them, and encourage your viewers to at least listen to the options.

    -Andy

  103. Pablo says

    My wife was on the pill for 15 years and never got pregnant. It was certainly not a joke for us.(actually, given the efficacy of the pill, about 85% of the couples who use the pill for 15 years will not get pregnant)

  104. Pablo says

    My wife was on the pill for 15 years and never got pregnant. It was certainly not a joke for us.

    (actually, given the efficacy of the pill, about 85% of the couples who use the pill for 15 years will not get pregnant)

  105. Anonymous says

    Miranda wrote: “It has everything to do with my belief in God. I believe in God, therefore…”That you derive your thoughts on porn from your belief in god is irrelevant… I don’t care about your belief in god – but I care about your archaic and dangerous thoughts on sex and porn. You can try to twist this into being about your belief in god – but that is not the issue. It’s sex and porn.Miranda wrote: “I also believe that lusting and desiring someone that is not your spouse is wrong”Good for you. You think there are such things as ‘thought crimes’ – being religious I’m not surprised. I, of course, think that idea is ridiculous.Miranda wrote about Donny: “But why are people like him producing it? Because people are watching it…”It doesn’t really matter what an asshole like Donny does – the way he treated women wasn’t a symptom of porn but a character flaw in ~him~. There are plenty of decent porn producers out there that resent Donny representing them… porn isn’t the problem – Donny was.@joe_mcken – where do I pick up my pointz? ;)Joe Agnost

  106. Anonymous says

    Miranda wrote: "It has everything to do with my belief in God. I believe in God, therefore…"

    That you derive your thoughts on porn from your belief in god is irrelevant… I don't care about your belief in god – but I care about your archaic and dangerous thoughts on sex and porn. You can try to twist this into being about your belief in god – but that is not the issue. It's sex and porn.

    Miranda wrote: "I also believe that lusting and desiring someone that is not your spouse is wrong"

    Good for you. You think there are such things as 'thought crimes' – being religious I'm not surprised. I, of course, think that idea is ridiculous.

    Miranda wrote about Donny: "But why are people like him producing it? Because people are watching it…"

    It doesn't really matter what an asshole like Donny does – the way he treated women wasn't a symptom of porn but a character flaw in ~him~. There are plenty of decent porn producers out there that resent Donny representing them… porn isn't the problem – Donny was.

    @joe_mcken – where do I pick up my pointz? ;)

    Joe Agnost

  107. says

    @Joe Agnost:Just for failing to comprehend that “I wish to hand you” means I just gave them to you by hand, I hereby take them back. *Yoink* Now you gotta make another smart and funny comment to gain them back. ;-)

  108. says

    @Joe Agnost:Just for failing to comprehend that “I wish to hand you” means I just gave them to you by hand, I hereby take them back. *Yoink* Now you gotta make another smart and funny comment to gain them back. ;-)

  109. "Miranda" says

    “So? People get curious about their sexuality see something that strikes their curiosity and decide to engage in it. I fail to see a problem.”But what happens when the curious person is a 10 or 11 year old child? Do you think it’s ok to be engaging in sex that young? And if they don’t know better, they will try some of the things they see and possibly hurt themselves. I believe that this is the biggest problem. As for the birth control thing. I’m going to partly agree with you, because i feel that Christians often do use scare tactics to make keeps “keep it in their pants” and I’m not sure i agree with this. But, the truth of the matter is teen pregnancy and STDs are scary, and I believe that they need to know the benefits and consequences of sex. To me, it makes more sense to at least wait until you are in love with someone, or until you are married to have sex. Sex education teaches how to put on condoms and what birth control does, but it rarely talks about true abstinence. The website you gave was interesting. I think the problem with that is again sex education. Many teens don’t understand that you can still become pregnant even without having true intercourse.

  110. "Miranda" says

    "So? People get curious about their sexuality see something that strikes their curiosity and decide to engage in it. I fail to see a problem."

    But what happens when the curious person is a 10 or 11 year old child? Do you think it's ok to be engaging in sex that young? And if they don't know better, they will try some of the things they see and possibly hurt themselves. I believe that this is the biggest problem.

    As for the birth control thing. I'm going to partly agree with you, because i feel that Christians often do use scare tactics to make keeps "keep it in their pants" and I'm not sure i agree with this. But, the truth of the matter is teen pregnancy and STDs are scary, and I believe that they need to know the benefits and consequences of sex. To me, it makes more sense to at least wait until you are in love with someone, or until you are married to have sex. Sex education teaches how to put on condoms and what birth control does, but it rarely talks about true abstinence. The website you gave was interesting. I think the problem with that is again sex education. Many teens don't understand that you can still become pregnant even without having true intercourse.

  111. "Miranda" says

    I don’t believe we are ignorant of the matter. Some may be, I will give you that. Also remember too, that our event was more than just talking about abstinence and the ways we believe porn to be dangerous. We were trying to spread our belief of God to people on campus as well. And part of that belief is waiting to have sex until marriage. So usually we wont tell a thousand people about different options, because to us abstinence is what we believe. Pablo, we were not so much talking about couples, or about things such as being on the pill for 15 years. we are talking more about teenagers and young adults.

  112. "Miranda" says

    I don't believe we are ignorant of the matter. Some may be, I will give you that. Also remember too, that our event was more than just talking about abstinence and the ways we believe porn to be dangerous. We were trying to spread our belief of God to people on campus as well. And part of that belief is waiting to have sex until marriage. So usually we wont tell a thousand people about different options, because to us abstinence is what we believe.

    Pablo, we were not so much talking about couples, or about things such as being on the pill for 15 years. we are talking more about teenagers and young adults.

  113. Anonymous says

    But what happens when the curious person is a 10 or 11 year old child? Do you think it’s ok to be engaging in sex that young? And if they don’t know better, they will try some of the things they see and possibly hurt themselves. I believe that this is the biggest problem. The solution to this is early sex education, and good parenting. Sex is only filth if you make it filth. There is nothing wrong with 10 year olds learning about what sex is, the dangers of it, and how human reproduction works. Furthermore it is the parents responsibility to makes sure that what a child sees is appropriate and put in context. Combine these two and you won’t have the ignorance that can lead to problems. It seems like we are in agreement on the encouraging of sex education and that makes me happy. I personally think waiting for marriage is a bad idea, because not knowing about each other’s sexuality can lead to problems. However I find it ridiculous that often times Christians say that anything other then abstinence only education encourages sex. If you want to encourage abstinence, fine, but let the other options be known, and use the facts.-Andy

  114. Anonymous says

    But what happens when the curious person is a 10 or 11 year old child? Do you think it's ok to be engaging in sex that young? And if they don't know better, they will try some of the things they see and possibly hurt themselves. I believe that this is the biggest problem.

    The solution to this is early sex education, and good parenting. Sex is only filth if you make it filth. There is nothing wrong with 10 year olds learning about what sex is, the dangers of it, and how human reproduction works. Furthermore it is the parents responsibility to makes sure that what a child sees is appropriate and put in context. Combine these two and you won't have the ignorance that can lead to problems.

    It seems like we are in agreement on the encouraging of sex education and that makes me happy. I personally think waiting for marriage is a bad idea, because not knowing about each other's sexuality can lead to problems. However I find it ridiculous that often times Christians say that anything other then abstinence only education encourages sex. If you want to encourage abstinence, fine, but let the other options be known, and use the facts.

    -Andy

  115. says

    “What’s done is done, yes. But the existence of past sexual experiences with others certainly won’t bond a new couple together.” Why not? If your lover performs a particular motion and it feels good too you is that not a benefit? Experience in any subject relates to improved performance or in other words practice makes perfect. (assuming one learns from failures)

Leave a Reply