The laws of Arab Muslim countries can be terribly barbaric! Women get whipped for their crime of being raped. I thought Dubai would be different. Foreigners are more in number than native Arabs. But the land’s barbaric laws are still used for everyone including foreigners come from civilized countries. A Norwegian girl raped by a man in Dubai, was sentenced to 16 months in prison and the rapist was sentenced to 13 months in prison. Under barbaric laws people get punished for having sex outside marriage, and more shocking thing is victims get punished for being tortured, abused and raped.
It seems there is no such thing called rape or sex with or without consent in Islamic dictionary. It seems for the ancient Arab tribes, the consent was not at all necessary for sex. What was necessary was to have sex within marriage. If sex occurs outside marriage, no matter whether it is because of rape or relationships, punishment would be the same..
Rape cases are impossible to prove in the Islamic court. Because the court needs four male witnesses to prove a rape case. It is highly unlikely that a rapist would rape in front of four male witnesses who could give testimony against him later in the court. Arab countries still punish people for having consensual sex outside marriage. Rape is considered nothing but adultery or ‘sex outside marriage’. Raped girls get punished as well as rapists for having ‘sex outside marriage’. The Islamic courts can not treat a rape as a rape. The law could be different if there was no scandal involving Aisha, Muhammad’s youngest wife, some 1400 years ago.
The scandal was documented in the Hadith (Sahih Muslim, Book 37, Number 6673; Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 829).
Aisha was once travelling with a group of Muslims, and she was one day left behind. She was found later and taken to her caravan. Muslims started talking about Aisha that she was having sex with a man, and that was the reason she was left behind. Aisha strongly denied this accusation. But people continued accusing Aisha of having adultery. Muhammad then came to defend Aisha. She was not just an ordinary woman. After all she was one of the wives of the prophet of Islam. The Quranic revelations were then revealed in which Aisha was declared innocent.
Quran 24: 13-16
Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah. And were it not for Allah’s grace upon you and His mercy in this world and the hereafter, a grievous chastisement would certainly have touched you on account of the discourse which you entered into. When you received it with your tongues and spoke with your mouths what you had no knowledge of, and you deemed it an easy matter while with Allah it was grievous. And why did you not, when you heard it, say: It does not beseem us that we should talk of it; glory be to Thee! this is a great calumny?
Quran 24:4
And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses – lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient.
In order to prove adultery or similar types of sexual misconduct, four male witnesses should be produced. Male witnesses are necessary, not female witnesses. Because the Quran says, the testimony of a female is at most worth half that of a man’s. (Quran 2:282).
The rule of four witnesses was intended to protect Muslim women from being falsely labeled as having had forbidden intercourse. Unfortunately the same rule was applied to the rule of rape. If a woman makes complaints of rape will need to produce four male witnesses to prove her case against her rapist. If she cannot produce four witnesses, her case turns into a adultery crime and is thus punished accordingly.
A former member of Muslim association that was approved by Muslim brotherhood expressed his opinion on rape issue:
There’s also an impression, among a large number of Muslim followers, that if a woman is raped, it’s usually her fault; that her mere presence in the street without a veil, for example, has ‘tempted’ the poor man to rape her. A notorious example of this mentality among Western Muslims is a 7th century misogynistic Australian barbarian called Taj El-Din Al-Hilali, who said in a Friday sermon that if a woman gets raped, it is mostly the woman’s fault because she wasn’t in her home. He also said:
“If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it … whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.”
Bigots come and go, but what’s disturbing in his case is that he is a leading Muslim figure in Australia, and that the Friday after his remarks were publicized, 5000 Muslims in Australia actually cheered in support of his remarks. Other Muslim leaders supported him, too (example).
I will need to make it clear and obvious that raping Muslim women is absolutely forbidden in Islam. However, there are some Muslims who go on raping rampages on non-Muslim women in Western countries, and they find justification for it, partly because “it’s the woman’s fault for going out without the veil”, and partly because of verses like Quran 4:24 and Quran 23:6, which permit a Muslim male to take non-Muslim women after a battle and keep them as war booty and as slaves.
All countries change their laws, make them better and modern. But Islamic laws remain stagnant in many Muslim countries. Because these laws are believed as divine laws, made by Allah. Changing laws mean challenging Allah.
Aren’t we supposed to become more civilized, more equal, more rational than before? How many more years will we allow religion to stop our thinking mind and to abuse humanity?
Hilali (often spelled Hilaly) was the self-appointed “Grand Mufti of Australia and New Zealand” but he isn’t 7th Century. He was born in 1941 and is still living. However he is a misogynist, an anti-Semite, a Holocaust denier and a homophobe.
So this Taj El-Din Al-Hilali is comparing muslim men to animals? And 5000 muslim men are cheering in Australia. If a non-muslim had said it, they wouldn’t be cheering…
It’s not just Muslims. Fundamentalist Christians and Jews have the *exact* same fucked up mentality about sex and sexuality. It’s almost 100% identical. There is just “sin” and “no sin” and everything except straight, married, penis-in-vagina sex (usually only for procreation) is a “sin”.
The only difference is that Christians and Jews have been forced to give up their worldly power and we don’t let them get away with crap like that anymore. But they still preach that stuff in their churches and teach it to their children (thus messing them up in the process). They are really jealous at Muslims for having theocracies.
Well said, Steve!
@steve84 just to point out something Christians and i bet Jews as well will not nor will it ever be jealous of Moslem Theocracy (or is it Theo-crazy) regarding the Matter of Raping somebody . That Law is sort of self serving when it was made during the start of the middle ages. Barbaric as it seem it has not undergone changes eversince. Not even those Fundamentalist that you’ve mentioned will admit to it. But you somehow made a slightly similar argument. Although i must remind you that Jews and Christians will never justify RAPE of Women as something sanctioned or allowed by GOD. Even western countries have a saying NO means NO. If you get caught you can only get out of persecution if you are able to Bend or Twist the Law. @Taslima Nasreem I have to admit that i am getting tired of being polite with my approach with Moslems having worked in Middle east for some 10 years or so. Picture this though. What if you found yourself one day outside trying to buy food for your loveone’s since nobody else is available to do it for you at the time., you get pulled from the streets by a couple of men (5 maybe 10 men) into an empty back alley and have their ways with you several times and more because they think that you should not be outside, its your fault……………
Please forgive for being to blunt with my words and i regret being too personal about it. I was very emotional when i made those statements forgetting what your actual objective is…… I have lots of Muslim friends and i get along with a lot more. and hope to do so for much longer. I sincerely apologize. You have something good here and i hope you continue to continue with your endeavor.
@steve84 Whats the fucked up mentality of the christian and jewish in line with sex and sexuality ?? Does the pastor / church not allowed you to fulfill your sexual fantasies before marriage or outside of the marriage ??? Making a comment is easy mate !!! Let me be appraised with a detailed explanation on your point of argument. Waiting …. !!
How can an Arab be an “anti-semite” when Arabs are Semites and their language, Arabic, is a Semitic language?
steve84, Are you trying to make a joke?
Hardly anything in the Bible can reasonably be read as restricting sex to intending to make babies. It’s for male-female companionship, bonding, pleasure (Solomon’s Song), sexual release (1Corinthians 7). Of course we know its biological purpose but this is barely mentioned.
We should be change this world by moderation all our thoughts and struggle to barbaric laws.
Even the rules of Mohammed or his created Book Quran’s Rules and laws were changing by period and some time one and after some times were changed by situation and now we live in after 1400 year why we can follow the Islamic laws.
Good news – iInternational pressure worked, and she’s now free to go.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23404042
Oops – I should have read the whole news item:
“The man she accused of raping her – a colleague – has also been pardoned, a Norwegian official has said. “
The “charge” of sex outside of marriage has been dropped, but only because of an uproar in “western” media, among white people. Would there be the same “concern” or demand that the charges be dropped if the woman who was raped were a paid labourer from the Philippines or some other poor and non-white country?
Given the number of charges, “convictions” and executions of labourers hired from poor countries, I doubt it. These are just the beginning of dozens/scores of articles I found.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/06/22/indonesia.migrant.workers/index.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/13/saudi-arabia-treatment-foreign-workers
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/01/execution-sri-lankan-maid-saudi.html
That’s because “consent” is a social construct – just like gender.
While I agree the laws are bad, we need to get some things straight. First, of course the laws apply to everyone in the country, whether citizens or foreigners. It’s that way everywhere. Can I go to another country and drive 240 km/h on the motorway and expect not to run into problems if I say I am from Germany and we have no speed limit on the motorway? No, of course not. Whether particular laws are good is another thing, but of course they apply to foreigners as well.
Second, with no witnesses, only she and the man involved know whether she was raped or not. Yes, the burden of proof is too high. However, we don’t want the opposite either, where a woman just has to claim rape and the man is prosecuted without any fair trial (see the Julian Assange case). There is no dispute that she a) was drunk and b) had extramarital sex, and both are against the law. Again, we might criticize those laws, but if they exist it in to be expected that they be applied.
My question: Why would a Norwegian woman even want to work in Dubai?
A Norwegian woman has the right to work anywhere in the world including Dubai. Dubai gives good job opportunities to foreigners.
Law should be the same for everybody living or staying or visiting in the country. But Norwegian woman is pardoned, maybe it won’t happen to native Arab women. Should our main concern be ‘Law should not be different for foreigners’, or ‘Law should not be barbaric at all for anyone’? I strongly think law must not be uncivilized and barbaric for anyone.
“A Norwegian woman has the right to work anywhere in the world including Dubai.”
I don’t know what the visa requirements are and whether she has a “right” to work in a legal sense (probably not), but I know what you mean.
“Dubai gives good job opportunities to foreigners.”
Yes, in some respects. But neither of these is the point. I have the right to put myself into danger. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea. If someone goes to a high-crime area and gets robbed, sure, he can say “I have the right to go there”, but that doesn’t help him.
“But Norwegian woman is pardoned, maybe it won’t happen to native Arab women.”
I see this as the larger problem.
“I strongly think law must not be uncivilized and barbaric for anyone.”
Of course. You believe that, I do, probably this Norwegian woman does. The question is how to achieve this. One way might be if highly qualified foreigners refuse to work in countries like Dubai, citing the barbaric laws. I certainly wouldn’t even visit such a country, much less work there.
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/jailed-woman-admits-she-initially-told-authorities-sex-was-consensual-1.1211497
In the example used from The Qur’an rape was not the issue, adultery was, you’re either ignorant of the difference between rape & adultery, or you have an evil agenda.
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/jailed-woman-admits-she-initially-told-authorities-sex-was-consensual-1.1211497
shame////
Sex , woman what a topic !!! I don’t understand what is the problem of having sex before marriage
Democracy is required in life , we must have the freedom to chose what we want do with our life …
The girl was raped and one even bother !!!!!
According to the rule she needs to bring four man witness wtf is this !!!!!!!
And people are saying jealous at Muslims !!!!! Lol
I agree the rule must be same for every one but this rule sucks
Rapist must b punished to extreme .. Tashlima how do u feel of the same happened with u !!!!?
Steve and tashlima want to ask u some thing , ,, the man raped the girl was ur father right ?
Fuck all the religions. And FUCK all their rules.
FUCK ALL RELIGIONS.
These are not all about what is written in their books……actually their books are really perfect….Islamic books are so perfect that today’s so called modernised people cannot follow it……and yes before marriage sex is a crime…..intentionally or not its not an fact…..Islam puts restrictions on such thinks because Islam knows the culture……and that is all.
You don’t need religion to do good – but it sure helps if you want to do evil.
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