Israel has once more made clear its intentions to slowly and steadily annex as much Palestinian land as it can.
Israel announced on Sunday a land appropriation in the occupied West Bank that an anti-settlement group termed the biggest in 30 years and a Palestinian official said would cause only more friction after the Gaza war.
Some 400 hectares (988 acres) in the Etzion settlement bloc near Bethlehem were declared “state land, on the instructions of the political echelon” by the military-run Civil Administration.
Israel Radio said the step was taken in response to the kidnapping and killing of three Jewish teens by Hamas militants in the area in June. The notice published by the military gave no reason for the decision.Peace Now, which opposes Israeli settlement activities in the West Bank – territory Palestinians seek for a state, said the appropriation was meant to turn a site where 10 families now live adjacent to a Jewish seminary into a permanent settlement.
As the map below indicates, the amount of Palestinian land has been steadily decreasing and they have been consigned to apartheid-style Bantustans.
The US and UK, Israel’s staunchest supporters, have condemned this latest annexation but the Israel lobby in the US will make sure that their words are not backed up by any concrete actions.
Well, I’m sure the UN and US are going to put together a “coalition of the willing” and go eject them, right?
How is “annexes” different from “steals”? Who compensates private owners? Can they seek compensation is court? If so, which court would it be? Is a “class action” possible?
Does anyone know?
The difference is that annexation is theft of land at the federal government level. Yes, it’s still theft.
Now I wonder how this will be spun into a being justified act by an Israel struggling just to survive in these hard times? I await War Crimes Apologist StevoR’s next blathering with dull weariness.
It’ll never stop ‘annexing’ on its own, the OT says Israel should rule the world and the deicated Zionistas fully believe that as much as all crazed Abrahamists do of their flavor of religion.
That graph of maps is incredibly distorted.
If you want to dissent with Israel fine, but you should personally feel that posing such distorted maps is beneath an academic doing research and professing to be intellectually honest while under the auspices of tenure.
Never go full retard Professor.
Illegal is your opinion Mano.
It ain’t reality.
Israel has been Jewish land since long before the Arabs even existed let alone emigrated there via there.
Look up Israel, Judea,Samaria, the Davidic kingdom and more.
The Arabs have Jordan.
Also Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Yemen,Aden, Djibouti, Lebanon, Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Morrocco, Mauritania, Western Sahara,Libya,Chad, Sudan, ad nauseam.
Muslims have so many lands and do such a bad job at running them. Arabs that applies to even more so.
Why the flippn’ ‘eck would anyone think the world would be better of with yet another Muslim Arab hellhole?
Is it really so much to ask that the Jewish people have one tiny minuscule strip of land that has always been their home, the place they have always lived and is sacred to them?
Israel (Is real!) from Golan heights to Gaza is and will be Jewish. Fact : get over it.
BTW. Jordan renounced its claims on what it used to call its West Bank back in 1988.
Palestine -- as a nation not an insult to Jewish humans by their erstwhile conquerors -- never existed even when it could very, veryesilyhave been created.
The so-called “Palestinian” Arabs turned down the plan for a state of their own umpteen zillion times. They ahd their chances and blew every last one.
Cairo-born terrorist turned wannabe dictator Yasser Arafat rejected the ideas of a state of “palestine” living next door to Israel in peace. Hamas have been offered it and rejected it plenty of times too. Thy choose war instead, they get the consequences of that. They fought, they lost, they gotta pay the price.
There won’t be any palestine ever. Unless they choose to rename Jordan that, in which case, fine by me.
But Israel is real is : מְדִינַת יִשְׂרָאֵל, Medīnat Yisrā’el and will stay Israel.
Jewish people can and will build and live on their land wherever they durned well want to. Fact. Get over it.
(BTW. What has been your problem with it as an Indian astrophysicist anyhow?D ahell make syouthink youhabeve a fog in this fight Dr Singham? Last I heard Muslims weren’t exactly besties with Indians anyway! Attack on India’s parliament ring any bells among so much more? Muslims hate Indians just as the hate the West and everyone else? Why the blazes are you so keen on supporting Jihadists anyhow?)
Correction for clarity : Dahell makes you think you have a dog in this fight Dr Singham? Last I heard Muslims weren’t exactly besties with Indians anyway!
@3. Hamas lovin’Holms : Well at least I ain’t a fan of Hamas like you seem to be. Must really suck to be you.
Ever thought of looking at & even taking the other actually ethically and factually correct Israeli side of this issue dude?
Incidentally, do you realise that every single Hamas rocket was a war crime as well as their use of human shields ,exploiting their own casualties and storing weapons in and firing from next door to schools, UN camps, etc .. But you have the gall to claim I’m supporting war crimes when my side of this issue has done more than any people pretty much ever not to commit those during a war that was not of Israel’s choosing? What a vile, deluded hypocrite you are. Daflip’s wrong with ya that ya cannot see it yaself? Do ya think that abusing me will somehow make reality something it ain’t?
#3: You apparently don’t realize that stevor is a rampant bigot and racist who would love nothing more than to have every Palestinian man, woman, and child eliminated -- since they are all (in his mind) terrorists and the result would be a plus for humanity. This causes him to ignore any point made where Israel’s actions are not exactly as they or he claim them to be. Don’t bother him with references to facts, either, since he’ll disappear for a few days, then come back and say “you can’t expect me to check everything, I’m a busy person” and then completely ignore your point.
In short: he is a despicable human being.
StevoR,
You are Australian, right?
(I’m not addressing the rest of your hateful crap because I already know there is no use. You are a horrible person.)
@ ^ Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought : Yes I’m an Aussie -- so? No, I’m not a horrible person & the reason you aren’t addressing the rest of my case -- which isn’t “hateful crap” at all despite your erroneous opinion of it -- is because you can’t.
@ 11. dean : “#3: You apparently don’t realize that stevor is a rampant bigot and racist ..”
That’s totally wrong. I am not a bigot or a racist. Rampant, maybe. But neither of those and your substitution of personal abuse for argument reveals the complete weakness & intellectual inferiority of your case.
I don’t even think such a thing as “race” actually exists let alone think some groups of humans are genetically superior or inferior to others. I treat everyone on the basis of their words and actions NOT the colour of their skin or other such shallow physical features. I am an opponent of homophobia a feminist and an environmentalist.
Whilst you, Dean, are a liar and probably deserve to be sued for libel /slander / defamation for spewing such offensive nonsense.
WRONG. I think there is in reality no such thing as “palestinian” these people are Arabs who use a former term for a former imperial province first imposed by the Romans after one early attempt at exterminating the Jewish people and then adopted by the British for a mandate region captured from the former Ottoman empire as a political tool to imply more legitimacy to their invalid cause than they have.
See : http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/07/some-thoughts-on-the-use-of-the-word-palestinian.html
In summary, this observation from there :
is completely spot on accurate.
The “Palestinians” are Arabs just like the Jordanians and Egyptians which have an essentially identical culture although very different politically. The partition of the former area now containing Jordan and Israel created two states -- the larger Arab one being Transjordan, later Jordan -- and Israel the traditional and modern Jewish homeland. israel is a small nation which has already given away land for peace with disastrous results at least in the case of Gaza and former parts of judea and Samaria.
The Arabs already have their state -- Jordan -- and should move to it or accept citizenship as Israeli Arabs fully acknowledging israel’s right to exist in peace as it desires and run its land as it chooses. This means giving up on the slogan that they are “palestinian” as well as all violence and full obediance with Israeli laws and policies. If they are unable to do this they should leave voluntarily or be deported.
Hamas and other terrorist groups need to be stopped from attacking and killing others. Civilians who are not members of these Jihadist groups (which are really no different in philosophy to Al Quaeda and Islamic State) should be allowed to live in peace resettled in Arab lands or as Israeli Arab civilians as noted earlier. Not killed or eliminated.
What plus for humanity would a terrorist state run by a group like Hamas be for humanity? Not all Gazans are terrorists but their present leadership certainly is and is an evil menace to the world just as the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq is. Islam is a horribly inhumane ideology just as Stalinism was.
The Arabs were offered a “palestinian”state and rejected it enough times to make it very clear that they do not in fact want one but rather want Israel destroyed. Destroying Israel and another six million or so Jewish individuals would indeed be a minus for Humanity don’t you think?
Wrong as usual dean. I accept that Israel has made mistakes and gone too far on ocassion. It isn’t perfect and has done the wrong thing at times. It has also -- and this you don’t seem able to understand or grant it -- done the right thing plenty of times too. Israel is more sinned against than sinning.
Disproven once again by this post and my returning now to put my case with rational evidence, facts and logic and reality.
Unlike you who just hurl inaccurate and abusive names at people who take the opposite side in an issue to you as demonstrated there. You,dean, are again, refuted and revealed to be wrong and unethical.
@ Mano Singham : I apologise for calling you an Indian last night. I did get a bit carried away and went too far in that regard. I accept that you are at least based and working in America and that I don’t know your background enough to say what nationality you are nor should this matter. I probably shouldn’t have posted late at in my night and drunk last night but this subject is as you’ve no doubt noted, triggering for me and brings out the worst in me.
It does baffle me why you have such a strong anti-Israeli position on their fight for survival against islamist terrorists and I would love to hear your explanation for why you seem so keen to single out especially and demonise the world’s one, only and tiny Jewish nation for defending itself from terrorist attacks. Why do you do that please?
Correction from # 7 :
I think Gaza should be returned to Egypt. They will no doubt be able to rule it and remove its offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood much better and with much less criticism than Israel ever gets.
The Golan Heights may perhaps also be returned to Syria at some future stage although it could go either way. Isreal needs defensible borders as shown here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2hZ6SlSqq0
and if any Palestinian state is ever formed it should be demilitarised and not include all of Judea of Samaria aka (Jordan’s) West Bank. But as noted, the Arabs have already rejected such a state enough times to show they do not in fact want one only an excuse to attack and destroy Israel.
@ 13 StevoR
This is the most sensible thing I’ve seen you write for some considerable time. Please try to remember it.
You’re still delusional though. Israel is “fighting for survival” to about the same extent a Tyrannosaurus Rex would fight for survival against a bull terrier.
I agree with Beatrice that it’s useless to address the rest of your diatribe because everything you say has been debunked a hundred times before, and you just keep popping up in another thread repeating the same rubbish over and over regardless. I’ll just comment on two particularly egregious examples of ahistoricity.
Palestine has not always been “Jewish land”. Jews have neither controlled nor been a majority in Palestine for the vast majority of recorded history. You may as well say England has always been Viking land.
The British mandate was not split into (Trans)Jordan for the Arabs, and Israel for the Jews. It was split into (Trans)Jordan as a reward for the Hashemites from Arabia (who supported the allies in WWI), and Palestine. The British intention was to set up a Jewish state within Palestine without displacing or disadvantaging the indigenous population. History has shown that was a monumentally stupid and disastrous idea.
Your racist assumption that all Muslim Arabs are interchangeable is as ridiculous as saying that as “white Christians” the Irish are culturally identical to the English, Scots, Americans, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders, so they should be just as happy living in any of those countries instead. Palestinians don’t want to live in any random “Muslim Arab” country, they want to live in Palestine -- it’s their cultural and historical home.
@ 14 StevoR
Finally, we agree on something. Yes, the Israeli military should withdraw from the occupied territories in the unlikely event that Israel ever allows them to become a Palestinian state.
StevoR,
Well, you know that you have some neighbors in Australia who would, following your reasoning regarding Israel, be perfectly justified in closing up all you settlers in a camp and occasionally throwing bombs on you.
I addressed your odious positions regarding anyone Muslim, anyone “looking Muslim” and anyone not openly hateful towards Muslims enough times, mostly while you were still allowed to comment on Pharyngula. You don’t listen, I doubt you ever will.
“posting while drunk” is still your excuse? *snort*
Right.
@ ^ Beatrice, an amateur cynic looking for a happy thought :
Really huh? Who and do you truly think that would be justified?
So you should have links to that then yeah? Can we see them? Or we supposed to rely on unreliable memory and your say-so? You claim you’ve won debates on this issue before? Meh, I make the exact same claim.
Actually I do listen. I truly do.
But listening to you don’t necessarily mean agreeing with you -- and not agreeing with you on everything particurly say Israel’s right to protect itself from terrorism and exist as a nation with defensible borders -- that don’t make me a bad person or in any way wrong.
Nah, its me pastime not me excuse!
@Silentbob:
Or the unlikilier one that that the Arabs ever actually agree to a “palestinian”state instead of just using this as a permanent pretext for war and bloodshed and deaths on all sides and yet more attempts to destroy Israel.
@ 15. Silentbob
But the Jewish people have lived there longer than anyone else. Especially the Arabs.
The “palestinian” Arabs really have been there as long and y’know how priority is important in science right? Well, it also matters here. The Syrians and Egyptians and others who emigrated to a largely deserted Ottoman empire province they wanted to kick out the Jewish people who were there long before them,. Want to minimise them and exterminate them. That would be wrong of those late coming Arabs and wrong of you to take their side.
Oh gee, yeah that Grand Mufti of Jerusalem at the time as just so supportive weren’t he -to Hitler in fact! See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haj_Amin_al-Husseini
The Brits should’ve stated all along that Israel was going to be Jewish land -they did get that wrong. The Arab sideshow with Lawrence (who shoulda let the Arabs rot & fought elsewhere) was just that -- a sideshow. Ottoman Turkey was already famously “the sick man of Europe” although major praise is owed to Kemal Attaturk for his efforts at modernising and shifting his nation’s culture away from Islam post-war. pity about the recent backsliding towards Islamism there. Hope its soon reversed and Turkey keeps secularising and throwing Islam out into history’s dustbin where its long overdue to be.
Israel definitely needed creating (who the flip are *you* to say otherwise?) and whilst the circumstances could’ve been better, I really hope you aren’t saying Israel shouldn’t exist -- because that would be proof that you are indeed anti-Semitic.
A strawmonster can get because it ain’t what I’ve said.
Well, if they’re happy to obey Israeli law and not destroy and kill other people they are quite welcome to stay as far as I’m concerned -- as Israeli Arabs who, btw, have a better standard of living and happier lives generally than most neighbouring Arabs have.
If OTOH, they demand Israel be destroyed so they can have a fictional mythical state that never actually existed -- nah, notso much.
Also, exactly how is their culture different to Jordan’s and Egypt’s -- three examples please? Their culture specifically not tehri politics and political history and idol worship of homicide -suicide bombers.
Incidentally, you realise the Arabs used to call their area South Syria and there never actually was a separate “palestine” created even when one could easily have been create when Jordan and Egypt ran the “palestinian” territories between 1948-1967 right? Plus that the first real idea of “palestinians” as opposed to plain ole Arabs came when the PLO was invented by Egyptian born terrorist douche Arafat in the mid 1960’s or thereabouts yes?
See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Syria
Most of Southern Syria is still Arab.
Can they really begrudge a tiny sliver of it to a people who have always been there -- or at least lived there far longer than they have -- the Samaritans! 😉
Plus the Jews (Israelis) and Zoroastroans and Bahai and Yazidis and others?
Clearly so. What miserable gredy bastards they are!
But then the Arabs (South Syrian, penisular and otherwise) are intolerant brutal fanatical cultural barbarians who seek to impose their caliphate on our whole planet and put us all under Shariah law in the end -- and our children for eternity to come if we have any. (Kids that is, not eternities.)
I say we tell ’em to go jump!
What say you?
I’m sorry for being too subtle. Here, this nifty place called Wikipedia has some information about Aboriginal Australians and European settlers: History of Australia.
You’re welcome.
If you want to dispute something, provide your reasoning.
Also, cool insults bro. They totally help your case.
The Jewish people left there well over a thousand years ago, with little historicity supporting the religious claim that they were driven out by war. Thus, their claim to ownership is tenuous at best as it was most likely freely relenquished. That said, even if they truly were driven off by war, the fact that it occurred millenia ago renders it pretty much a moot point, as any attempt at redress is hopelessly too late to punish any collaborator, and will only cause upheval amongst the contemporary inhabitants unjustly, as they are not the guilty party.
It gets worse. Even if we grant them the benefit of the doubt that the Jewish religious account is accurate, and if we dispense with the complication of the vast sweep of time since then, we arrive at a problem: the Jews were not the first people there. Since we’ve granted the Hebrew scripture to be historically accurate, this means that their own religion points out that the Jewish people massacred and supplanted even earlier inhabitants. Since we granted earlier that the Arabic claim to the land is rendered void by their forced expulsion of those that were already there, this in turn destroys any Jewish claim to that same land on that same basis.
Do we grant even further benefit of the doubt that all of this is justified because their god said it was cool? I think not.
Briefly:
1) It’s not a matter of how many nations / how much land area is under a given ethnicity; ownership is ownership, regardless of how much else they may already govern. Thus, the lands should remain in posession of those that had it, i.e. not Jews.
2) Nor it is a matter of ‘who would run this land best’. If that were the case, then you are arguing to have all lands run by whichever government can be determined to be the ‘best’ by some measure; odds are, this will not be Israel just based on the fact that that is one nation among hundreds. Strangely, I bet you aren’t suggesting that the Jews hand their governance over to whichever is determined to be the best; you just don’t want it to be in Arab hands. This special exemption to your reasoning leads me to believe you may just be a bigot.
3) Yes actally, it is too much to ask, since a) it was someone else’s home even before the ancient Jews arrived; b) you are of course aware that they have not always lived there, rendering this little ‘always lived there’ line a lie; c) ‘sacred to them’ doesn’t mean a goddamn thing in property law, especially when there are multiple religions laying spiritual claim to the same area.
Due to the knowledge that Israel has the military backing of the US and thus cannot hope to win; a.k.a. pragmatism combined with a desire not to get bombed to shit all over again.
Essentially, they did so due to having a gun to their head. This sort of reasoning is what makes you a war crimes apologist.
They were conquered, and their conquerors wanted them to sign a thankyou note and to officially relenquish their claims to self determination. This is like torturing a person to sign a document saying that the person is fine with being tortured and is not seeking redress; I’d be reluctant to do that too.
In which you openly greenlight any further theft of land, so long as it is the Jewish people doing so. Again, this makes you a war crimes apologist.
Why does blogger X blog about Y at any time? Because a blogger is not defined by their job title, nor is any other person. The blogger, whoever it may be, is a human with interests that may be very diverse.
I’ll also note that you don’t seem to care about bloggers that write about other topics at all, you only seem to have a problem when the topic is Israel. Why does an astronomer like Phil Plait blog about geology pretty often? Why does a biologist like PZ blog about philosophy? Why does a doctor like Avicenna blog about computer games? Why does biologist AronRa blog about race? These silencing questions are all strangely absent…
You know quite well that this is a lie; I and many others here have openly called such civilian attacks criminal. We then add the point that Israel is guilty of this as well, leaving you as the one that refuses to use that label without bias.
In a way, I am impressed by the fact that you actually said this given how insulting you usually are, but especially since it is just a single post after you said to me: “Must really suck to be you.” Amazing.
Wow, you’ve accidentally admitted that you think having an Indian background amounts to an insult against that person.
Wow, some naked racism. Makes a refreshing change from your usual masked stuff.
Stay tuned for the next round of Debunking Every Trivial Error StevoR Keeps Making Only To Be Ignored Yet Again! Coming to a reply thread near you!