Somebody is compiling a public list of people who “support political violence online,” which seems to mean only people who are insufficiently upset about the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and only Charlie Kirk. It’s a curious list: they post photos of the “violence supporters”, but I noticed that most of them seem to be young and attractive men and women. I am forced by the empirical evidence to conclude that if you hated Charlie Kirk, you are probably very pretty (do not submit my name to their list, or you’ll ruin the streak.) Also most of the comments by these “haters” are mild — pointing out the Kirk was a radical 2nd amendment absolutist is enough to qualify you.
TPUSA has also long maintained a Professor Watchlist targeting people who speak against TPUSA’s agenda, which is a very strange thing for a free speech advocacy group to do. By the way, I’m on that list already. I wouldn’t want to not be on that list.
It’s weird how the worst people on the internet aspire to be List Lords.
While I abhor the killing of Charlie Kirk I am also appalled at the half dozen opinion pieces in today’s times, none of which refer to the appalling way he practiced politics, especially the piece by Ezra Klein ,a progressive, entitled “…Kirk practiced politics the right way”. If the Wikipedia article is correct Kirk regularly prompted conspiracy theories and lies, COVID 19 misinformation,election fraud misinformation, was racist, homophobic, antisemitic, a Christian Nationalist(against separation of church and state) etc., etc. in other words very much lile Trump. I hope no one similar takes his place of leadership.
Read The Wikipedia section “Political positions and activities”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk#Political_positions_and_activities
we can disagree with someone and not wish for their death
we can argue with someone and not use rhetoric that incites violence
and just because we civilly disagreed with someone (and something bad happened) it isn’t our fault
the IRONY here is that the the people complaining about rhetoric today and making lists, how many of them supported Gabby Giffords and wanted to take the ‘temperature down’ about the rhetoric that many believed contributed to her being shot? or were they more likely to object to being censored/political correctness?
“Don’t tell me I can’t put crosshairs on political posters! no one is going to take that to mean to target them for violence”
I am not eloquent – below is what we should be hearing from everyone – we can argue, we should disagree we should ‘fight’ for what we believe in – via the political process and lawsuits, not via violence
Gavin Newsom (or his publicist) :
“We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today. Charlie Kirk’s murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones.
“I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate. His senseless murder is a reminder of how important it is for all of us, across the political spectrum, to foster genuine discourse on issues that deeply affect us all without resorting to political violence.
“The best way to honor Charlie’s memory is to continue his work: engage with each other, across ideology, through spirited discourse. In a democracy, ideas are tested through words and good-faith debate — never through violence. Honest disagreement makes us stronger; violence only drives us further apart and corrodes the values at the heart of this nation.”
We should continue his work…of promoting white nationalism, theocracy, and the demolition of our democracy? That makes no sense.
Essentially, it’s a doxing site created to foment hate and violence.
I never paid much attention to Kirk. I knew he was a proponent of things I detested, but I wasn’t deep into the details of his positions. After his killing, I checked his Wikipedia page to see what I’d missed. Holy-Moly! He stood for everything I oppose. I tried to be charitable and looked for ONE thing I could agree with him on. Couldn’t do it.
Honestly, I think we dodged our own bullet with Kirk’s death. At age 35 he would’ve been eligible to run for president. In the current insane political atmosphere, I suspect he’d have had a good chance of winning. Kirk is the kind of Christian nationalist zealot who would make the lives of free thinkers a living hell. I think the shooter did us a huge favor.
I can abhor the violence – genuinely believe that the world is a worse place for him having been murdered – and still believe that the world is a better place without him in it. The phrase “Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy…” comes to mind.
On the occasion, I attend anti-fascist rallies, and the fascists usually take pictures of people (possibly to scare them a bit). It doesn’t work at all, I’m zero scared. And once you are on a list, and there is no possibility to get un-listed, it may actually be an incentive to do more against the listers (because you figure that if they get to power, the list is their death list).
There is an entire underworld of neo-nazi death cults out there. The Order Of Nine Angles. The Maniac Murder Cult. No Lives Matter organization. And many bizarre internet based cult like organizations the delight in searching out mentally ill teen aged girls on line and exploiting them. Getting a teen aged girl to commit suicide is considered a praiseworthy accomplishment among some of these sick bastards. The founder of one of these organizations, 764, 15 year old Bradley Cadenhead who recently was sentenced to prison for 80 years for this. Many similar darknet orgs metastrasized from 764. We have a lot worse than trans people with guns to worry about. This a rather bizarre rabbit hole to fall into. Not to mention some bizarre and violent religious cults out there active today.
The FBI has released an image of the suspect shooter. He’s a young male wearing a black shirt with the US flag and an AR-15 rifle on it. He clearly identifies as a 2nd amendment gun-fondler either that or it was a “false flag” operation by Antifa. No points for guessing what TPUSA and hid fellow pundits will believe.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-11/fbi-says-charlie-kirk-search-continues-weapon-found/105764588
@notaandomposter @11
There is not a single part of that that is correct. Just as a for instance, the best way to honour CK’s memory would be to piss on his unmarked grave, adding to the pile of rotting fish heads and other foul refuse.
The ideas he had HAVE been tested through civil discourse. Over and over again. They are universally evil and are to be abhorrred, not listened to and debated again.
@3 I meant
A vile man, proudly and unthinkingly wrong about everything, hateful and cruel and working to make the world a worse place. No great loss to society. No loss at all, really. If it were only irredeemably awful people like him who ended up killed by gun violence then it wouldn’t be a problem to society.
Unfortunately it’s not just pathetic fascist wastes of space who suffer from this scourge. So better to work towards ending it, even if that does carry the unfortunate consequence that suppurating arseholes like this man are safer too.
There is a large swarm out there of far right neo-nazi accelerationist organizations. Some preach violence and murder to spark civil unrest, race wars and uprisings. Google “terrorgram” for these sorts of things.
I saw those photos this morning.
The people at the rally were all white, Mormon, young, right wingnuts. In the Orem-Provo area, that is completely generic.
They all said that he blended in well and no one would look at him twice.
A young, fit, clean cut male.
They also said there was minimal security at the site.
.1. He could have been a right winger with some sort of grievance against Charlie Kirk.
Or he could have been someone who just had personal problems and was going out with some headlines.
.2. Or he could be someone on the left end of the spectrum who decided Charlie Kirk needed to die bad enough to end his own life with him. Even if he is taken alive, he is looking at life in prison or possibly a death penalty.
Could be one of Charlie Kirk’s hate targets, Trans, gay, normal person, educated, etc..
We don’t have the data to tell these alternatives apart right now.
We just have to wait until more evidence shows up.
In addition to the excellent points made by cheerfulcharlie @9 and @14, you could check out the excellent podcast by Molly Conger called “Weird Little Guys” for way too much information about the intellectual swamps from which Kirk’s assassin almost certainly emerged.
I’d bet good money that, should the FBI take a break from Epstein-file-Trump-name-redacting and endless loyalty polygraphs and catch the actual shooter, he’ll be some form of disturbed and terminally online right-winger with an inscrutable grudge against charlie kirk and an interest in accelerationism. Most likely a disaffected groyper (Nick Fuentes follower) who is frustrated that Kirk refuses to be antisemitic enough in his bigotry, and who thinks that killing Fuentes’ enemy Kirk will push the narrative rightward and also remove Fuentes major competitor for the minds (and wallets) of impressionable young men. But as noted above there are dozens of different edgy right-wing-nihilist groups that fetishise violence and the only thing they hate more than minorities and the LGBTQ+ are each other. Just like both Trump shooters were weird little guys, my money is that this guy is too.
I think we should just not bother to talk further about the guy. He had a squalid little life and a squalid little death. I suppose it’s tragic, but given the daily butcher’s bill paid in America for the Second Amendment, I think it’s unfortunate that we’re spending any time at all thinking about this useless skin-tag instead of actual innocent victims of violence. Personally, in the event that any of the right-wing-leaners in my life bring him up again, I’m just going to ask them if they know the names of any of the other people shot at schools that day, and what opinions they have about those. If they’re only concerned with this one school shooting, I think I can just disregard any concerns they have about violence as disingenuous and self-serving.
Middle Tennessee State University dean fired over Kirk comments
Matthew Dowd’s firing begins flood of people facing consequences for their comments on Kirk’s death
Well, OK.
I have empathy but I won’t waste any on Charlie Kirk.
He is dead. Good.
He was just another Alex Jones.
Spreading hate, violence, and lies for money.
He never had an original or worthwhile thought in his life.
That was my eulogy for Charlie Kirk. You could put it on his grave stone.
Of course, he was a horrible person. He tried very hard to be one.
.1 He once said Blacks were better off as slaves. He said that women should never have gained the right to vote. He hated everyone but a few fundie white males.
.2. He was also rather stupid.
He never had an original thought in his life.
He just repeated the common hates of the right wing christofascists over and over again.
A parrot or an AI could have done the same thing.
Great writeup here:
https://aftermath.site/charlie-kirk-death-political-violence-new-york-times-eulogy
Empathy, derived from the Greek, is actually a new word that only became common in the early 20th century. See Google for details. But the Bible claims God is merciful. just, and compassionate. And commands we be likewise. Which amounts to the same thing.
#10 and #15: That black shirt portrayed an eagle over the flag, not a weapon. It was identified as a Veterans Support group shirt.
“we can disagree with someone and not wish for their death”
Sure, but that ship sailed when the fucking fascists started wishing for my death
If he didn’t want to get shot they should have respected other people’s lives
@10, 15, 22
Several images of the T-shirt
It does indeed appear to be an eagle in front of the US flag, with white and yellow text proclaiming “Land of the Free” and “Home of the Brave” or something similar.
When the rule of law is dismantled before your eyes, and guys like Kirk hold “civil discourse” about how you should be killed or subjugated, eventually people are going to go into violent self defence mode.
I hate that there are so many news reports painting Charlie as into civil discourse, as if all he was arguing was the choice of pizza toppings.
I’m just going to point out again: it seems very unlikely to me that Kirk was killed because he had hateful beliefs. Recent history suggests it is much more likely that he was killed by someone who didn’t find his beliefs hateful enough. He may have died because he associated with hateful people, rather than because he was himself hate-filled.
Leftists don’t ‘own’ Kirk’s death, even if one of us killed him. But we sure as hell don’t ‘own’ it if he was killed by some fascist internet-sewer dwelling online weirdo as a part of some esoteric grudge. Remember: both of Trump’s would-be assassins were longtime republicans with extreme views.
More news tonight.
There was a widely circulated report from the Wall Street Journal that the bolt action rifle found in nearby woods had ammunition engraved with “Trans and Antifa Ideology” whatever they are. Apparently the bullets used they/them pronouns.
This claim has now been retracted.
I didn’t believe it at the time.
The Wall Street Journal is owned by Murdoch and not a reliable source about anything.
I wasn’t in a position to contradict it though, not being anywhere near the ammunition in question.
How much can you write on a bullet any way?
The source for the claim seems to be someone just made it up.
The current top one on that list reads, quote-tweeting themselves:
The only way that can be construed as calling for his murder is “not bawling your eyes out for our slain warrior” is equated with bloodlust. It’s not even rejoicing, as some of the others on the list do.
(I accidentally posted this on the infinite thread as well; oopsie!)
raven, #27
The trick is to write something pithy and transgressive that fits on the space. The Romans were masters of this particular custom – we’ve found hundreds of Roman slingstones – little lead bullets for throwing with a sling – at the sites of famous battles. Some even have crude messages referring to particular dignitaries they were aiming for. By far the earliest use of the Latin word for clitoris can be found on one from the siege of Perusia in 40BC.
It plays havoc with the aerodynamics, but that’s not really the point, is it?
Two quick points. @27 raven: I read a report this morning that showed the end of a bullet cartridge that was stamped “TRAN” for the company that makes the bullets — the speculation was that the conspiracy nuts picked up on that and stupidly inflated it into a message about transgender issues.
Second, and to repeat a point I made earlier, regarding the juxtaposition of the story about an instructor in Texas who was fired for “indoctrinating” students with “gender ideology” and the story about Kirk, who spent his entire career indoctrinating students with wing-nut conservative nonsense — the hypocrisy of conservatives knows no bounds.
Commercially produced ammunition usually has what is called a headstamp on it. It’s a marking on the base of the cartridge to identify the maker and sometimes the type of ammunition. The suspicion is that one or more clueless investigators misinterpreted the headstamp on the cartridge as trans and/or antifascist in some way. For example the Turkish company Turan uses TRN as their headstamp, and Turan cartridges are sold in the US.
The shooter has apparently been caught.
He is a local in Utah and his own family turned him in.
There isn’t much available so far on his motivations.
Apparently, his family are a very typical Mormon family.
The rest below is crowd sourced from the Internet and of unknown reliability.
I wouldn’t take any of it seriously until it is confirmed.
He and his father are both registered Republicans.
He dressed up once as Donald Trump for Halloween. I have no idea
what that means.
He lives in an area with a lot of White Supremacists.
(That could describe all of Utah and parts of any place in the USA.)
He isn’t Trans, Gay, or nonwhite.
After this it gets foggy.
He may be a groyper, which is a follower of Fuentes. A far right wing racist who had a conflict with Charlie Kirk over something.
About all we can say so far is that he isn’t following the right wingnut’s stereotype of a woke, nonwhite Trans commie.
Al Jazeera has live updates coverage -there’s been a press confrerence. Amongt things noted :
Source : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2025/9/12/live-charlie-kirk-shot-dead-fbi-releases-images-of-person-of-interest
Seems to be anti-Fascist and polirtical but also homophobic so .. Hmmm .. Dunno.
The shooter’s family are gun nuts, with family photos of young kids posing with what looks to me to be semi-automatic weapons. Regardless of his motives, he grew up around guns and was thus already in possession of a legally obtained firearm, knew how to use it, and most importantly, was steeped in a gun culture where guns are seen as a valid solution for a wide variety of problems, including defending your political beliefs.
Seems highly likely to me that if he had been raised in a normal family that didn’t fetishize guns, and didn’t have any in the house, it’s extremely unlikely he would have considered assassination as a viable or desirable solution to his personal animus toward Kirk.
@33
Charlie Kirk’s alleged killer scratched bullets with a Helldivers combo and a furry sex meme
@35: Oh great, so we’re heading back to blaming violent video games for the ridiculously high rate of gun violence in the USA, once again completely ignoring the fact that teens and young adults in every democratic nation on Earth play these games without any sign of spates of mass shootings and assassinations breaking out…
Even if there’s a provable causal link, it’s only because of the high availability of guns that the problem exists. I guess we could end up with the freedom to play violent video games being another sacrifice on the altar of American gun culture.
The shooter’s father is also a 27 year veteran cop.
And a far right extremist, a member of the 3%.
Or at least he was photographed wearing 3% gear.
The environment he grew up in is all far right Mormon, anti-governmemt, white supremacists. This isn’t too far from where the Bundys blockaded the Feds.
The shooter is looking more and more like a far right hater of some sort who might have thought Charlie Kirk was soft on gays, women, or Democrats.
Rachel Gilmore, at the top of that list, is a Canadian hournalistbehonregularlyngets death threats from the far right and from zionist groups (but I repeat myself).
She is, of course, terrified.
“there’s a man goin round taking names”
old time song I could not choose a particular version to link
It is beyond doubt now.
The killer of Charlie Kirk was a groyper, a far right wingnut who thought Charlie Kirk was too moderate. A fan of Fuentes.
The GOP right wingnuts have already lost interest in this murder.
It will be off the front pages in a day or two and forgotten soon after that.
If the would be (and actual) authoritarians where as serious about ending violence as they always are about trying to find the black/latino/immigrant/liberal who is somehow responsible for everything wrong in America, then every time something bad happened here the first thing they would look for is a white republican. That is, literally, the core argument here, really…
As I read elsewhere:
@35,
Worse – it’s not a “furry sex meme”, it’s a meme used by 4-chan-ish edgelords to make fun of furries. (apparently specifically furry online roleplaying).
I would love to see a very serious segment on CNN or one of the other major networks where some suited academic tries to explain to the audience the difference between Pepes, Brainlets, and Wojacks and the varying roles that each one plays in in-group signalling with online extremists. “Ah, you see Tucker, the shooter used a “coomer vietnam soldier” wojack, which implies that the poster may be affiliated with the military and also evinces a strong interest in gooning. On the other hand, he may be ironically posting this meme to insult his opponent as a LARPing wanna-be soldier, who steals valor and sits in his goon cave sadly masturbating. Meme communication is heavily context dependent, as you understand, and therefore the exact ‘meaning’ can only be determined by asking the individual poster or examining the conversation they are participating in.”
As I look at that, and realize that I understood what I typed there, I think I need to go touch grass. The internet makes you stupid.
‘Just Kill ‘Em’: Fox Host Makes Shocking Comment On Homeless People
Update on this doxxing site.
It’s been taken down by the web hosting service provider, because cyberstalking and doxxing people is a Federal crime. Many States also criminalize doxxing.
Apparently, anybody who was on that list can now sue Squarespace.
Bonus, those hosting services will definitely not host further attempts by magats to harass leftists for lacking empathy over a hateful bigot getting his just desserts.
Tethys, that is confusing. Is not Squarespace the hosting site? Are they gonna sue them for taking it down?
Makes no sense.
Hosting criminal activity is indeed a huge liability issue for squarespace, or any web hosting service.
They can be sued right along with the creator of the former list.
hm. Well, I’d hazard that given they voluntarily took it down (they will say as soon as they knew), the case would not be a slam dunk, would it. If there ever is such a case.
(I’m glad the commentariat here has matured at least a bit since the days of unmitigated enthusiastic support for “punching nazis”.
So you’ve twigged that unfettered random vigilante violence may not be a unproblematic concept after all, eh? Better late than never, I guess.)
@ ^ Silentbob : A few things here – why the brackets and who are you referring to as the (collective?) “ÿou” here?
Also note that “punching nazis” is NOT “random” – or for that matter “unfettered” – but is targeted specifically at nazis.
Vigilante violence is, ofc, problematic.
So too tho’ is a very slow, very flawed adversarial legal system that too rarely delivers actual ethical justice. One that favours those with the most money and thus the best lawyers. Another area where the USoA would be very well advised to emulate some European nations that have a different legal system in my view.
@49 Sbob
That’s a rather optimistic take. Give it a few press cycles — I fully expect a terminally-online influencer will write another Nazi-punching field guide, PZ will link to it to drive blog clicks, and the commentariat will rejoice.
@50 StevoR
Which nations would those be?